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Mozilla 1.1 Alpha Released
theBrownfury writes: "Mozilla.org has released Mozilla 1.1 alpha, the first post 1.0 milestone.
This release has been in the works for almost 2 months now incorporating
over 1700 bug fixes and more than a dozen new features. Including: Quartz
rendering for OS X 10.1.5 users, new layout performance enhancements targeted
at DHTML, faster startup times and more. Here are the release notes and
the link to the releases page
or FTP
for downloads."
Hopefully this version will fix the problems I get loading pages with lots of dhtml... takes forever to load those :( (for example, flat mode comments @ shacknews.com)
This was released days ago. I _do not_ mean to troll, but this really is rather latesom.
Mz 1.1 is quite stable really. Only one crash in the several days I've been using it.
Btw, you need to go into the preferences and turn pipelined http on - it's off by default. In my experience, it increases speed by about ~25%. Very good stuff.
Hopefully they've finally fixed some of the problems running Java applets. For example, I can't play games at http://games.yahoo.com using Mozilla. I've seen tons of bugs at Bugzilla, but not being a Java expert I don't know what is what.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
getting to that FTP server before it gets slashdotted kinda reminds me of when Indiana Jones is diving under some massive stone door, which is about to shut him in the acient temple.
This is a milestone, not a regular release. Many people will want to wait for the mozilla 1.1 release. This kind of stuff makes you look forward to mozilla 1.1 already though :-)
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Once again we have to say well done to the Mozilla team for finally delivering a very usable product. It's great to jump between Linux and Windows and to have the same browser. Some people have complained about its memory use, but if your machine is halfway decent, it's really a simple Web browser that gets the job done.
However, there are several things that stop me from using it 100% of the time. I still stick to IE for about 25% of sites, because.. of all the little bugs! I'm hoping some have been cleared up in this Alpha. They include:
* Keyboard not responding sometimes when you open a new Mozilla window (this is in Bugzilla)
* When you click on some links, it doesn't go to the destination.. and it just displays a picture off of the current page! Hit Refresh and you finally go on your way.
* Mozilla is less system tolerant than IE. Mozilla is often the first application to lose its icons and its interface starts falling to pieces. This is probably because of my memory or the CPU overheating.. but IE remains stable until the last minute.
* Mozilla often bawks if you're loading large JPEGs into it direct from hard disk.. and it just displays a blank/white screen with scrollbars.
* Many sites still don't display well in Mozilla. This is the Web developer's fault, but still.. Mozilla can do all of those DHTML menus and stuff, yet I still run into problems on sites that use them. An optional 'IE compliancy' patch in Mozilla would be very very useful!
mogorific carpentry experiments
If you only read the posting you should seen it already links the release notes.
I can whore for karma too...release motes here
Usually helps if said link is not in the above posted article, but nice try anyway. 'E' for effort.
and to fill in the next mozilla realaes lets look at the roadmap:
1.1alpha 12-Jun-2002
1.1beta 17-Jul-2002
1.1 09-Aug-2002
Security fixes in mozilla 1.0 not included here.
those four people that need to be found so mozilla.org can update their license??? i reccomend a house to house search in Redmond Wa. starting at bill gates & monkeyboy ballmer's house, they might have kidnapped em...
Anyone know if this has the fix for the remote DoS
when X/XFS is running?
(For those of you who don't know, you can kill X
by including "body { font-size: 1666666px; }" in a stylesheet
My email addy? should be easy enough.
450 MHz is starting to get long in the tooth... how much RAM do you have, and how may other apps did you have running too... some people bitch about software being slow & buggy and never consider the ancient computer they are running it on...
Wow, Mozilla 1.0 was just released, with much pomp and circumstance (or if you read CNET, much weeping and gnashing of teeth) and already we are seeing a 1.1 milestone being announced. You'd think the Mozilla team would take a month or so off to recover. Guess this is one of the lesser-publicized advantages of OpenSource - vacation time is not an issue because the volunteers (those doing it out of love or a feeling of duty to the community) aren't being paid anyway!
Well, there's one IE emulation script here that I know of. It's a regular .JS script, designed more for designers to adapt scripts easily than for clients, but it shows off the advanced side of Moz's JS 1.5 support (getters/setters for properties...).
.JS files added to each page you load (without a local proxy)? Is it possible to add DOM properties with the user prefs JS files somehow? This could be very useful -- emulate IE, any other browser, customise the behaviour of any document function...
This brings up one of my older thoughts: you know how we can format sites with user-defined stylesheets, how about user-defined
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
to say the least. I'm running a 450mhz w/ 128M of RAM and this new milestone is super fast and stable (something I haven't seen in ages). Beats the snot out of 1.0 and Opera, IMHO.
i would still trust mozilla before i would trust M$-IE even with mozills's bugs & all, look what you get with IE--> vulnerabilitys needing to be patched every week and it takes Micky$oft months to make a patch, IE= popup advertising, backbutton vulnerability, and dont forget cybercrooks & malicious websites can read & write to the Windoze OS thru IE... with mozilla i have much better control of surfing the WWW where IE hands over control to the WWW...
Unfortunatly not, well interms of usablilty,
The prefreances box is still not resizable, this is one of the most WTF bugs, evryone uses the preferances box so why is it so hard to see what going on.
Try setting your Mail & New group / Send format, the options fall off the bottom of the page.
Mozilla also fails to use my system colours, this is another clasic 'You fool' usability bug.
Somone at AOL/Netscape should be driving fixes for this type of bug, because they piss people of far more than taking a while to display somthing, or occasionally having to hit refresh.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
If someone there is worried about people facing this 1.1 new release when, in press releases they have been told about 1.0, then don't worry. The big milestone of 1.0 is about compatibility: the interfaces have been frozen so further development will be easy to do. This is a concert only for enterprises developing applications based on Mozilla technology (PDAs, portable aps, embedded devices), not for the desktop end user.
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
Thou receiveth what ye giveth.
I always though tabs worked a bit funny (not closing the current tab), but now there worse, they close the most reciently opened one first, apparently this is a bug fix in the 1.1 release.... more like a buggered fix...
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
So how many bugs are open on IE? How do you know it's 10x as many bugs? For that matter, how do you actually raise a bug on IE if you find one? Microsoft do their best to hide that kind of information.
The fact is Internet Explorer is closed source. You have no idea how many bugs are open on it, how many are fixed between builds, the quality of patches, the quality of the code or even what features are being worked on at any given time. Mozilla allows you to do all which consequently means a lot of people are motivated to find and reports bugs and often submit patches.
Besides, a lot of the so-called bugs on mozilla are covering feature work, more deal with embedding and API cleanup, more are dupes, more are issues restricted to specific sites and more deal with issues on specific platforms. They might all be labelled "bugs" but the number of crash/non-functional/quirk issues are actually a subset.
Now that Quartz rendering is supported, does anyone have experiences in how stable and fast this is compared to Chimera (the Aqua version of Mozilla, not the old X11 browser).
I used to have 64MB, now 320. Mozilla is just as slow even with 320mb. You don't need several gigahertz of processing power to run a WEB BROWSER, its not rocket science.
that's funny, i've been running 1.0 on a 250 MhZ Celeron, and it works just fine. (64 Megs RAM)
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
I took a couple of screenshots of Slashdot rendered with and without the Quartz rendering of Mozilla 1.1A.
Wow. What a difference.
http://www2.canisius.edu/~graciem/mozilla.html
--saint
450 MHz does not mean a lot (other than it is old), what OS & what desktop WM if it is linux? what all do you have running besides the browser... some people never *really investigate why some app is running slow and they just whine about it, oh well one monkeyboy does not stop the show...
Actually that bug is *not* Mozilla's fault. If you keep up to date with bugtraq, it was later clarified to be an X-Windows problem.
Is *every* Mozilla release worthy a slashdot article? I mean, hey, Mozilla roxx - no doubt about it, but announcing release candidates, alphas and betas is a little bit overkill..
Or maybe I'm just being cranky?
-$|{
In traditional /. style I prefer to ask silly questions instead of go googling or reading Bugzilla so here it goes.
Does anyone know if they're planning to replace GTK 1.2 with GTK 2.0 soon as default toolkit on Unix platforms? By default I mean it uses GTK 2.0 if found without having to use --with-toolkit=gtk2 configure option of whatever it's called. I think basic GTK 2.0 support has been in since February or so and I personally tested it sometime in April or May (had to get some patches somewhere and apply to source from CVS, wasn't yet committed back then) and it worked fine on my mainstream system (i686 PC running Debian/unstable). Also some days ago I grabbed some snapshot debs from an APT repository announced on galeon-devel mailing list. Packages included Mozilla with GTK2 support and Galeon compiled from source from the HEAD branch of their CVS. That GNOME 2.0 version of Galeon is already almost quite usable, very cool.
Anyway, IMHO, it would be appropriate to begin public testing of new rendering back-end in early stages of 1.1 alphas by compiling official snapshots for Unices with GTK 2.0 support enabled. Any words regarding the issue?
I can't manually log into the ftp server, and the link from the releases page returns a 0 byte file. I know others have gotten this version, so where is it? Anyone got a reliable mirror out there?
Eric
I don't have the patience to play with this silly thing for another 20 minutes to find enough other bugs to round out this list. Needless to say, this isn't really the quality you'd expect from a 1.1-level release.
(Yes, I posted this with 1.1a. After hitting "submit", I will uninstall and go back to nice, reliable IE.)
The Daily Build
My ISP has a transparent HTTP gateway/proxy.. and all HTTP traffic goes through it. Perhaps this is what is incompatible with HTTP 1.1 or pipelining. However, using HTTP 1.0 means you can't access virtual hosts on servers, AFAIR?
Anyway, thanks for the advice, hopefully it can help most people with proxies, transparent or not.
mogorific carpentry experiments
if it works with Microsoft Proxy Server V. 2.0 yet? This is keeping me from using mozilla at work. Any workarounds?
Why haven't they put the 1.1a source up? I don't want to do all the CVS jazz (yes I know it isn't hard).
"More organs means more human." - Zim
Perhaps it's better on *nix, but under Win2K version 1.0 was "unable to resolve" about half the web addresses I typed into it. Anyone else have this problem? Does 1.1 alpha fix this?
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
And I like said, it isn't 1700 bugs since the bug system also tracks features and other work. A lot of work was in a holding pattern while Mozilla 1.0.0 was in feature freeze and QA. I also wonder where this 1700 figure comes from since it's not mentioned in the release notes and Bugzilla only lists 172 bugs as being fixed with a 1.1alpha target.
Anyone know if they plan to do an openbsd port
Does anyone know if FullScreen (F11) has been returned to 1.1 in the Linux version?? I don't know why it was taken away in the first place and really miss the feature. I have a small (17") monitor and really miss the extra space savings. I think it was there until Version 0.98 and then poof!, she was gone.
On the Windows side of things, there are exactly two things keeping mozilla from being my Browser Of Choice:
1. No fullscreen button to switch back and forth between the modes.
2. No hotspot for the mouse to pop out the sidebar automatically.
This is why:
With those two buttons I can surf all day and *never* touch the keyboard. The way the browser is now I always need to be hitting F9 to get the sidebar to come out or go away, and F11 to switch between the fullscreen/screengarbage modes.
I realize I can try to aim for and click the center of the left side of the sidebar to get it to come in and out, but even with my optical mouse and superior fragging skills I still find getting exactly into that little space a bit of a challenge depending on my sleep+alcohol levels.
With IE, drunk/tired surfing is simple. I slam the mouse pointer to the left and bang!, there are all my lovely bookmarks. I don't have to aim; I don't have to make my eyes focus; and most of all I don't have to try to find function keys in the dark.
When I'm trashed or otherwise feeling like the rest of the masses, I always end up booting back up into windows to surf because the interface is more mouse-only oriented.
And by the way, the reason I havn't downloaded 1.1 and tried it myself is because just for once, for more than one day, I would like to have a browser running on my Linux box that isn't called a beta, let alone alpha.
You can still use virtual hosts on servers. That is not required by HTTP 1.0 (it is by 1.1) but all your popular browsers since 5 years ago give the information anyway.
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
Kudos on the excellent browser. I couldn't be happier with it... well, maybe a little happier.
I'd love to see a way to allow/block particular plugins for certain websites, as we can now with cookies. A way to globally turn all plugins on/off easily would be useful as well.
OT... the start up speed from 1.0 to 1.1a is significantly faster on my machine, and 1.0 was fast enough for me!
It has a nasty bug with Flash and Linux. It is unusable if you need to use flash plugins... hope they fix it soon.
"This release has been in the works for almost 2 months now incorporating over 1700 bug fixes and more than a dozen new features." 1,700 bugs!!! And everyone around here is always complaining that Microsoft releases buggy software. Geez....
People who prefer Gtk over XUL should probably use Galeon instead of Mozilla.
Not sure what it is, but from the looks of another user's screenshots it seems to improve font rendering. What can I do for !686? I'm running RH7.3 with Radeon 8500 on one machine and ATI Rage Mobility 128 on another. The fonts looks look crappy. Like reading a page where the ink has bled.
Not to mention that I can't get the screen resolution below max (16KX12K) on my laptop. I've run Xconfigurator a dozen times and tried the CTRL-ALT-Minus trick but it won't change.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
When are we going to get SVG support in stock Mozilla binaries? Can't even find the SVG build on the nightlies directories.
Here's the solution: cd over /usr/local/mozilla-1.0/, remove all Java-related files and the java2 directory. Then go to java.sun.com and reinstall.
Everything now seems to work fine. Don't ask me why it works, though.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
It does seem a sensible and common practice to only change the API at major number releases, but for instance the Linux kernel 2.4.x is sometimes incompatible with binary modules for 2.4.y.
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
filter them out in your preferences if you don't like it.
I have multiple IMAP accounts and the annoying thing about the mail reader is it loses stat. I select a message X in account A, then check my mail in account B and come back to account A. Now X is no longer selected, in fact no message is selected and the scroll bar is completely scrolled to the top. I sort my messages in descending order and expect Mozilla to remember atleast the postition of the scroll bar (imagine scrolling 1000 messages!).
Does any one have a fix?
Actually, I found that the biggest problem with Mozilla in RedHat 7.3 was that I had installed the AbiWord word processor when I installed the system. AbiWord happens to have some really poor quality fonts named according to the Microsoft convention.. Arial, etc. So any web page that gives you something like
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
will cause Mozilla on X to go and find the lousy AbiWord fonts, no matter what you try and do in the Mozilla font preferences.
The solution is to comment out the reference to the AbiSuite fonts in /etc/X11/fs/config from finding the AbiWord MS-named fonts.
Mozilla on RedHat 7.3 was totally unusable until I did this.
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
Does anyone know if there are any plans to update the RPMS in the nightly builds folder on the FTP server? The current files were built on May 19.
The release of Mozilla 1.0 is reason for great rejoice for the community (including, but not limited to the OpenSource one). But this release did take too long, and honestly, I didn't believe it would ever come to life. The Mozilla Project had difficult days and many drawbacks.
Fortunatelly, as says a Brazilian quote: "Everything ends well. If it is not well, then it's not the end, yet"..
It's good to see the next step taken so quickly, and I hope it never get stuck again. I'm proud to say that "I use Mozilla v1.0"!.
Go, Mozilla!
- Please, ignore everything written above.
I have problems with http://chat.yahoo.com with mozilla 1.0 & Sun JRE 1.4.0-b92 (I can't seem to type in *any* text input field). Games.yahoo.com works fine for me.
I remember once accidently getting tabbed browsing to work...it was awesome! I cant for the life of me get it to work anymore (I am now using the 1.1a) release. Under the help section it just says [content to be provided]. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks!!
There is a serious bug that practically impedes the use of localizations (i.e. translations) in this version. :((
Really hope this get fixed quick..
http://www.mozilla.org/party/2002/flyer.html
MOZILLA RELEASE PARTY
8pm - 2am.
FREE ADMISSION!
Main Room:
Cybrid -- live PA (Aelectro / Exact Science)
Ritter Gluck (CODE / Infinite Kaos)
Shane (CODE / Epiphany / Cloud Factory)
Amber (CODE / Sister SF)
Ghreg (CODE / Phosphene / Spectral Concepts)
Lounge:
Michael Ang (mozilla.org)
Bre-Ad (Exact Science / Hot Hair Care)
Science
Zephyr
Acrobatic and fire performances
throughout the evening by P'Revenge.
Unfortunately, due to a bug in one of Apple's libraries (not sure which, IANADH -- I am not a darwin hacker) Mozilla (any version since .8.x) crashes instantly if launched from a UFS partition in Mac OS X.
Really sucks, because when I got rid of OS 9 on my tiBook, I reformatted it all UFS, thinking I'd never have need for HFS+ again. Oops...
At least Chimera doesn't have that problem (although there are a slew of others...)
Who did what now?
Its amazing. Slashdot, presumably inhabited by the computer literate, can't make a stable win9x system. Hint : It isn't hard. Just have nice hardware, with decent drivers (no $10 bin vid cards), put on a custom install lacking a lot of cruft, turn off Java in IE (which leads to a lot of crashes), and don't install crap (avoid the $5 software bin).
Win 9x has bugs, some quite bothersome in a few situations, but it is very workable as a work station. Just realize this - windows 9x does not really understand the idea of protected memory - bad programs will crash the system. It also doesn't protect itself, so if you install a program that overwrites key system files, instability might result. Finally, have some sort of real time antivirus measures installed. Viruses cause a lot of instability.
I'm sorry, but if you can't create a win9x system that won't habitually crash, you don't know computers (at least not windows). The 9x series might not be robust enough for servers, but it is solid enough for the desktop with infrequent reboots (I'm currently doing about one a month.)
Right click on the img, do "view image". I get a screenful of garbage as moz renders the PNG as text. How amusing
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Can you install Linux on this?
"The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -Harlan Ellison
Some people rave about new software versions being so fast and gloss over the fact that it requires a much faster processor and more memory to get that speed. IMO, if you're going to compare the speed of a new program with that of an older program, you have to run them both on the same hardware -- preferably the hardware that was already in place running the older program.
I have a friend who doesn't buy into any technology hype at all. He still runs Netscape Navigator _3_ on his laptop, because it works well enough for him, it's quick, and it doesn't take up gobs of memory or hard drive space.
Personally I have an old 100MHz '486 which I use as a secondary / backup computer. It's still perfectly serviceable. (I was even able to find a VLB IDE controller card last year when my SCSI hard drives died -- amazing!)
Further hint: don't install M$Office (the #1 stability culprit) or any IE version past v5.01. There *are* alternatives (like this newfangled Mozilla thing :)
This Win95 box crashes so seldom that when it does, it's an astonishing event, and has *never* BSOD'd (nor has anything ever been reinstalled). Hell, I even have a WinME box (the worst Win32 ever made) that after I got done beating it into submission (98lite, MFD DOS patch, turn off Restore, done), *never* crashes. It CAN be done, people, and it's not rocket science. It's not even in the same difficulty league with setting up a relatively turnkey linux disty.
I'd turn this around... with all the consumate geeks working on Mozilla, why is it still the least stable app of all those I have installed?? It's the only app on my Win98 box (which itself usually runs for 2-3 weeks between shutdowns) that routinely crashes. And on reading the 1.1a release notes, I had to shake my head at some of the bugs not fixed (with low Bugzilla numbers, so they've been here a while).
Ah, well. At least when Mozilla crashes, it doesn't take Windows with it.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
"Mozilla also fails to use my system colours, this is another clasic 'You fool' usability bug."
No, wrong.
The Modern theme is designed to use its own colors. The Classic theme (kinda like NS4) does pick up system colors.
Moz's XUL-based themes allow you to design themes either way. It would be a bug if a theme that *did* have specific colors was overriden by the system.
There are probably some new themes out there you'll like. Click the "Get New Themes" link in the Themes preference panel.
The more I use Mozilla, the more cool features I find. All I can say is Mozilla rocks my friggin world. It is now my browser of choice on all OS's. The only reason I ever use IE anymore is if I have to access a page that only works with IE. Usually, I manage to complain to the webmaster about his inability to preform code with is compliant with the web standards.
Reserved Word.
I think the most important thing Mozilla needs to work on is CSS support. Theirs sucks. I can place things absolutly, with no margins, etc, and line them up just using px placement....this should be simple....it looks fine in IE, and the placement is way off in mozilla. CSS is basically unusable for web sites because of this incompatibility (I know, I am a web designer). CSS is a great addition to the tool sets we have to develop web sites, but the lack of support makes CSS usless now.
Can the themes be disigned in a way that applys a style to your system colours, e.g. by using PNG's and colour blends/masks?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
...on Win2K, until I uninstalled Mozilla *and* the Java engine and reinstalled both through the Mozilla installer. Now it all works fine.
Mozilla itself recommends you uninstall the last version, rather than installing on top of it. They don't mention that it's probably a good idea to uninstall the Java engine as well.
Yeah, whatever, but are they ever going to make it faster to use the browser? I'd like to see it run at least as fast as Netscape 4. Just now I tried pulling up my Roxen web-based administration interface, and I could see the delay between loading each individual graphic image on the page. Even with pipelining turned on. I tried running a search on dice.com using Mozilla 1.1a and Communicator 4.78 simultaneously, and even though I clicked the button on Mozilla first, Communicator was the first to display the results. The most noticeable difference though is in the UI widgets; whatever widget set Mozilla uses, it feels very sluggish -- there's a noticeable delay between clicking a button, like the menu bar or a dialog Cancel button, and seeing the response. With Communicator's Motif widgets, the response is practically instantaneous.
It's a Nice Thing than Mozilla goes on dropping new releases after 1.0, because the release often approach of free software brings new features quite often.
Microsoft does the same thing -- everytime someone publishes a security hole...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
"1700 bug fixes" In other words, 1700 ways they could have written the code better the first time. Hypocrites.
Ok, I'll file a bug report now that i know it works for someone else.
The problem is, I use mixed fonts and different font sizes for things, and it looks like the preferances dialog is'nt taking accoun of this properly.
Changing you font to 'I can't see that well' or 'Can you see from the back of the room' size, and things go really tit's up.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Thanks, i don't think I installed AbiWord, but I did install OpenOffice, SciTE and some other stuff. I'll give it a try.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
So let me get this straight; in order to get a stable Win9x system, I have to limit my choice of software? Thanks, but I'll stick to Linux.
I can understand the drivers argument, but the moment you start saying not to use any user-space software because it could bring the system to its knees, I know there's something wrong with the system.
I'm with you, Mozilla 1.0 looks better (on my Viewsonic tube). Perhaps it is only LCD screens where there is a noticable difference?
-Steve
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
DOES IT MAKE IT ANY FUCKING EASIER TO INSTALL SHOCKWAVE PLUGINS!!!?
The reason Mozilla will never be "better" than IE, even though clearly it will, is that simple things like downloading and installing plugins are turned into an impossible act on Mozilla.
(If you click on a link with shockwave, you get a box saying to download the plugin, but the Macromedia site doesn't recognize Mozilla as a browser, and points you at a directory of files. You choose the one for IE or Netscape and try it. The first thing it wants to run the installer is a plugin for Macromedia Director, so you go through the failed-recognition-DL procedure again. When you try to install Director, the first thing it wants to run the installer is Shockwave. Catch-22. Just fucking lame. Partly Macromedia's fault; mostly Mozilla's fault for not having a corporation behind it that understands that synergy with plugin providers requires TALKING to them.)
--Blair
When the mail app can remove encoded attachments from mail messages, I'll be all over it. See Bugzilla Bug 2920 (which is over 3 years old) for details.
I will never use IE, which if you don't know, really means "It Explodes"
Get a free ipod.
For me, the most annoying thing with Mozilla is when I click on a link, the boss walks by and I minimize the window, the page loads, and then the window pops back onto my screen.
... for me?", or "Are you busy right now?"
Without fail, it is followed by; "Chris, can you do
What an amazingly simple way to crash a Linux system. And it's been there for months, if not years. This just goes to prove that no one is seriously looking for security problems in Linux or any of it's components or programs. (Hey, Linux is perfect! It can never have a security hole!) And save all the X is not Linux and Mozilla is not Linux apologies. Linux is a package and everything that it includes to make a functional desktop system (including X and a web browser at minimum) must be looked at as a *system*.
:(
So far any time anyone lifts the lid ony any part of the system, even a tiny bit, spiders and flies emerge in droves. Please start actually taking security seriously and stop dodging the issue ("it can't happen here", "X isn't Linux so it's not our problem" etc.) or it will be Linux's ultimate failure. Imagine if the entire US gov. had already switched to Linux and Mozilla and this came out. Ooops! Gotta patch 50 different programs on every desktop on a monthly basis, now that sounds familiar.
I too was appalled to see the
"This game will not work on unix or Macintosh systems"
footnote on games.yahoo.com (for the fabulous 'twisttext' game).
But I tried it under Linux, and (once I got the latest JVM installed), it worked fine.
Go figure.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
that the lizard could run this fast!
But isn't this is even more limiting to what software you can install. Besides if you install buggy software in Linux it can crash too. I know this isn't a popular opinion here, but IMHO Windows 98SE is the BEST operating ever made. Not all slow and bloated like the NT/2k/XP line, not crippled like ME, and well I'm not going to trash Linux, cause I do like it it's just not as good overall as 98SE, yet anyway.
As far as I can tell (and I'm fairly confident in this) is all new feature development always occurs on the CVS trunk. A while before a new release they cut a cvs tag and branch it. Once they branch for release, there are no new features added on the tag branch, unless they're very necessary for stability. All cool stuff goes on the trunk.
So if you want to think about it, yes, while 1.0 was branched but before release, they were making the changes on the trunk that eventually would be 1.1.
Of course, nothing is stopping the API from changing from 1.0 to 1.1 no matter when the tags were cut. Thats up to Mozilla discipline, but considering the long gestation of the 1.0 release, I'd say they had plenty of beta time to make their changes before the 1.0 freeze. But if you're concerned about API stability don't pay any attention to the chronology of releases. The tags are the important thing.
is awesome. I'm on a 28.8 modem connection for the summer, and I was pretty bummed about how slow webpages were loading up. After turning on the pipelining option, load times dramatically decreased.
There's an explanation on how it works here.
:wq
No, I Don't want to go wading through mostly undocumented configuration files to figure out why it doesn't work - It just should work by default - That's what's called usability and why people still see Linux (apps/os/&c) as hard to use.
There were a few things in the past that made me grouchy about mozilla, I was disappointed. 1.1 seems to want to fix some of my complaints so i've been taking it serious as a browser of choice for the first time ever. Nice to see the dev-team is listening!
-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
No, it's not really limiting myself, unless you also count saying using Windows is limiting yourself to not running Linux programs, which makes the whole argument pretty silly.
Anyway, Win98 was not the best OS. I could bring it down easily, which is saying something since back then I wasn't programming. I have yet to run any software that can bring Linux down unless it has direct access to the hardware (Such as XFree). Typically, when XFree crashes, it just respawns.
To the best of my knowledge, to get a stable system running on any end-user OS in existence you have to limit your choice of software.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Firstly, I'd like to congratulate the team working on Mozilla - up till now I've been a bit disappointed with the slow dHTML performance, but this latest version... well... AMAZING, on Windows at least...
Unfortunately the OS-X version is still as slow as before, though no worse than IE5.1 on the same machine. I get the impression it's OS-X itself that's the problem here...
Yet to test the Linux version, but I'm full of hope now!!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Mozilla has gotten really fast; on my dad's old Pentium 90 system (first generation Pentium with Win98), I've had it running faster than IE since 0.9.8. (Before that, I never tried it using it on the system.) I guess those System Requirements are higher than necessary. (258% too high, that is). Good work guys!
Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
If AA fonts are that important to you, use Windows. In Windows, ALL programs can have AA fonts! Just click a checkbox, and voila! One less thing for you to bitch about.
One obnoxious comment deserves another.
Another tidbit to increase Win9x stability - don't install AIM. I don't know for sure, but it really looks like when AIM changes ads, it doesn't free the memory from the old ones. You'll notice if you run AIM for a while, you'll start getting UI glitches around the system with UI objects not showing up. First thing to exibit the problem is the AIM ads.
For those who don't know, Windows 9x has a 256k area of memory where *ALL* UI objects are stored. Once that memory is filled, things start disappearing. Win 3.x was worse, as it was only 64k total. Don't know about NT/2k. Hence why not freeing the ad objects is such a bad thing.
Interestingly enough, Netscape 4.x's stability also goes up drastically if you don't run AIM.
I have two computers, a Linux box and a Windows 98SE box. One for work, and the other for play. On my windows box, I have replaced IE has the default browser. Some people are going as far as to use Lite98 like utilities to rip IE completely from their Windows system, and then configure Mozilla for quicklaunch. Under such a setup, Mozilla truely is faster than IE! Not only that, but I only had an IE crash on average once a day, but with Mozilla, I have yet to crash it... even after 12 hour browsing sessions!
The next thing Mozilla needs is to become the default AOL browser.
After that, Sony uses Mozilla has the default browser for the net addon to their PS2.
In addition, Apple replaces IE with Mozilla as OS X's default web browser.
Then the nail in the coffin would be an Outlook worm that transparently replaced IE with Mozilla. Overnight, the tables would turn. Wishful thinking? Maybe. Mozilla is not just a web browser, but an application platform for developing full featured software applications using open XML based languages. Enough market share would allow commercial desktop applications to be developed for a cross-platform paltform as was the desire with Java. Mozilla truely could be the turtle to Microsoft's rabbit.
Seriously though, I notice bugs in IE all day long when I use it at work, are you so sure of yourself when you pronounce IE to be superior browser? Why? Has MS's PR deparment impressed you that much? I know I can't seem to find any sort of bugzilla server there, so I'd assume thats the only thing there is to go by.
Oh I forgot, your actually a 'grassroots' poster, aka MS drone.
When I first started using Linux, that had to be the number one UI irritation I suffered. However, once I got used to it, it ended up feeling more correct than the standard way of doing things (the selection becomes the home for things to be copied, which makes sense because it defines selected text as text upon which operations are performed, not some mysterious, invisible paste buffer.)
That having been said, a couple of mysterious invisible paste buffers with a status viewing application (which I would leave perpetually open on head 2) would rock.
Oh yeah, that and Photoshop, Illustrator, and Quark ports. Honk.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Ha! With all due respect, any idiot who is still using win9x on a modern computer gets what he deserves in my opinion. There is no reason to still be using an operating system designed in 1982 in 2002.
:)
True, if you jump through 15 hoops you can get it to work halfway decently.... (maybe, if you're lucky) SO WHAT!
My computer works for me, not the other way around. I'll take XP Pro (fischer price addons turned off) or OS X puhleaze. Linux is stable too, just needs a little more work.
#6495ED - cornflower blue
Try gaming. Sometimes old DOS is the best platfrom. Several of the console emulators out there really like DOS. And I'm sorry, but console emulation on linux sucks. Argue with me all you want, but first, do this. Take a console, (lets try NES, since its been out forever), and compare the Linux emulators to the DOS emulators. System requirements and mapper support would be two easy to measure things. Now tell me what platform has the better emulator.
Just my $.02
It just amazes me that so many people can put so much work into a project, and then NOT include something as fundemental as AA support.
....
So why don't you do this?
Stop complaining and start coding. It's Open Source, not shareware
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
It's too bad the Windows version of Mozilla sucks ass. Now, I'm not trolling here, this is honest.
I've been using Moz since beta v0.6, if I remember correctly - and I switched to using it as my primary browser (no IE at all) at around 0.8. I just recently removed Mozilla entirely from my system, at RC3. Why? Because it SUCKED. Mozilla's windows version has steadily regressed in major areas, due to developers checking in flawed code.
I personally have submitted or commented on a number of major bugs, only to see people trading blame and pushing back fix dates.
A number of MAJOR bugs that appeared in recent versions, and prevented me from using the browser, STILL have not been fixed. Things like the fact that Pipelining is horribly buggy, and corrupts caches, how JPEGs are inexplicably flagged as corrupted by Moz when every other app doesn't mind them, how Moz decides to ignore mouse clicks and key presses at random, all have made me rather upset with the developers. I can list off from memory a number of bugs that a first-year computer science student could have caught, but were not caught before being checked into the source tree, and then caused major screwups.
Moz's developers have done a great job, but the Windows version is horribly screwed up, and needs to be given a thourough once-over. It consumes excessive amounts of RAM, crashes randomly, and is very sluggish in various cases. Compare all this to IE - IE has been fast, and for the post part, stable (though not secure) since 4.0. Mozilla, as far as I know, has never really even gotten close to equaling IE in the reliability department, and only occasionally runs decently fast. I would pass my problems off as due to my machine, but I've run Moz on at least 7 different machines from different companies, with different configs, and they ALL have major issues. I've reinstalled multiple times, reformatted, etc - And yet the problems persist.
I was pretty faithful about submitting bug reports every time I found problems - but apparently spending 2 minutes searching for my bug in the database wasn't enough. I was consistently shamed for not finding some obscure old bug with a weird name and keywords, and also consistently ignored when posting comments about bugs. I finally got tired of being screamed at on Bugzilla, and just decided to screw Moz. I'll let them catch their own bugs.
Perhaps if I ever get a working Linux partition on my home box (I've had bad luck in the past), I can use Mozilla as the kickass browser it's meant to be. Until then, I'll stick to IE.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
I'm still waiting for this! There are millions of Palm users out there but still no way to sync the contacts? I don't get it...
5
For those also waiting for this feature don't forget to sign here: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11255
For now there is still *no* Priority assigned and *no* Target Milestone specified for this task. Subscribe and show that you're waiting, too. Maybe we can speed up the process a little.
Thanks.
CK
Though his mind is not for rent
Don't put him down as arrogant
But I found your example kinda funny because whereas I reboot to win98 pretty much for the sole reason to play a good genesis game or snes game, with fceu I can play nes games on linux just as well as win98 :) Actually from what I've seen if I just set up my svgalib and framebuffers better snes9x would run like a dream. Zsnes is definitely playable on my linux setup, albeit just a tad bit inferior to the win98 version. Gaming isn't that big of priority for me at the moment, so I haven't gone out of my way to fix up my linux setup yet :)
If you'd like to try fce ultra for a good NES emu, heres the url :)
http://fceultra.sourceforge.net/
Or buy a decent monitor with some resolution. Sheesh. AA fonts are worthless if you have good Adobe fonts and a decent monitor.
'over 1700 bug fixes...'
And these were part of 1.0?
This is encouraging news. But not at all surprising. Unless these people stop thinking like MS and start reviewing and tweaking their code, this will go on... And on and on and on.
It's a disease, and it's called featurism, and it's defined in the Jargon Files.
I downloaded it, its much better than 1.0 (and better than the first version of Mozilla, 0.9.2 which I used 1 year ago:P)
"With Microsoft, you get Windows. With Linux, you get the full house" - unknown
Pretty nice proggie actually, wouldn't want to be without it...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
True enough, but I meant there are less programs for Linux. I've had Netscape 4.x bring down Linux before as well as several older versions of Mozilla and some other programs as well.. Win98SE crashes very rarely for me. Of course, I am using Mozilla instead of IE, so a browser crash doesn't bring down the system, in Windows at least. I never have to restart my system now that I stopped using IE.
MacIE and Netscape/Mozilla both face the same basic problem. They are ports of applications written for a system with a very limited architecture (Mac OS 9). Until the apps work in the way that is best suited to the OS X architecture (this can be done from within Carbon), they will not reach their full potential.
Try Chimera, which is a Cocoa browser app wrapped around Gecko. It's not complete feature-wise yet, but the rendering engine is quite solid and development is moving quickly.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
They can't use native widgets for forms because no native widget prowide all the functionality one can specify with style sheets. And given they have to use their own widget set (XUL) for forms, it makes sense to use it for the entire application. Especially since there are other browsers (Galean, K-meleon) that provides the native widget application around the Mozilla (Gecko) rendering engine.
However, Mozilla does the next best thing. It speaks with the native theme manager to draw the XUL widgets, for systems that have a theme manager. So the widgets will look native.
Does anyone know when/if a spell checker for mozilla mail is planned?
Yeah, You can make a stable and secure win9X box, but that's like saying you can make a shock-resistant Pinto.
You're trying to get something to behave in a way that it was never designed for. By all means knock yourself out. Still, at the end of the day you would have a much easier time if you started with an OS with some semblence of a security model and a filesystem that doesn't corrupt/fragment itself at the drop of a hat.
ok it appears the RPM's for 1.1 alpha are non-existant, anyone be kind enough to provide them?
Sigh, come on mozilla, be the team we want you to be.