Slashdot Mirror
Skydiving from 25 Miles Up
chisox writes "The Observer has a story about a retired French army colonel who is soon to make a free fall parachute jump from 25 miles up. In the process he will break the sound barrier, reaching a top speed of mach 1.68 before he opens his parachute 1,000 metres above the Earth. Of course, if the chute doesn't open, the hole he'll make will be about 1,000 metres deep." Well, actually his max speed will be high up and near the earth the atmosphere will have slowed him down to terminal velocity.
Will he really experience a sonic boom? If so wouldn't that destroy his ear drums.
Sounds very interesting. I wish him the best of luck in getting this done. I think I read something about him a couple of years ago, though I could be wrong.
I have to admit, considering applications of this, such as parachuting from a Space Shuttle, IIS, etc, it does make you wonder why something like this has not been undertaken by any government agency.
RonB
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
Wouldn't the amount of force be more than a parachute is used to receiving? This could possible rip a rope or the parachute itself.
Sponsored by the Darwin Awards...
What's in a Sig?
He's sure to make an impact on the skydiving industry.
If the chute doesn't open, yes, it will be.
Well, actually his max speed will be high up and near the earth the atmosphere will have slowed him down to terminal velocity.
Well, actually he'll be at terminal velocity for nearly the entire time... Terminal velocity is dependant on the density of the atmosphere. You'd think that someone that posted a link to a page which defined "terminal velopcity" would have at least read the definition...
Wired had an article in August 2001 about two other people attempting much the same thing.
Someone should tip off the drilling companies: rather than pay skilled people to operate fancy drilling rigs, just drop the rigs and/or people out of an airplane.
By an American Air Force pilot in the 50's. Rode a baloon up into the stratosphere, and jumped. Is the french dude going to set a record, or is this publicity?
hearing a story about an American doing something like this a long time ago during the beginning of the space program. If I recall, he took some kind of ballon so high that he needed breathing assistance and then he jumped. He is supposed to be the only man so far to break the sound barrier without mechanical assistance.
I want to say that this was on TLC or Discovery Channel. Can't remember anything else about it.
If the cute doesn't open, the crater he makes will be the same size if jumps from 25 miles or 10,000 feet. That's how terminal velocity works. Sure he'll break Mach 1 in the thin air aloft, but as he gets to into progressivly thicker air he'll be slowed to the same 55 m/s as any other skydiver. As long as he doesn't tuck into a ball or go head first, that is.
... this kindof reminds me of the time that guy strapped a solid fuel booster to his Nova trying to break a landspeed record somewhere out in the desert. he hit a solid rock wall probably mere seconds after realizing no less than three critical errors in his planning:
1) solid fuel boosters can't be stopped; once they're ignited they burn till they're used up.
2) at 400 miles per hour those cliffs way off on the horizon approach much faster than you'd have thought.
3) it doesn't really matter how hard you push in on the brake pedal if the car is being propelled by something they use for jet-assisted takeoff of military cargo planes.
Isn't it time that postmodernism died.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to post-postmodernism.
For the sane people out there... here's some unit conversions:
25 Miles = 40.2336 Kilometers
1.68 Mach [dry air, 273 Kelvin] = 2005.6498391999999 kilometers/hour
For the insane people out there... here's some unit conversions:
1 Kilometer = 0.621371 Miles
12 Inches = 1 Foot
3 Feet = 1 Yard
1 Mile = 1,760 Yards
1 Mile = 5,280 Feet
1 Miles = 63,360 Inches
Just to give you a taste of some saner things:
1000 millimeter = 1 meter
100 centimeter = 1 meter
1000 meter = 1 kilometer
But wait! There's more!
1000 milliliter = 1 liter
100 centiliter = 1 liter
1000 liter = 1 kiloliter
Just go to onlineconversions and have fun!
If this isn't possible, I wonder how close to possible it is. I saw a *really* high-diving competition on TV (not at a pool, but off a cliff) and I'll bet those guys were getting up towards triple-digit speeds.
What's so wrong with someone doing something he wants to do? It's his own money--he has the right to dispose of it as he pleases.
Socialist jerk...
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Its a plot, the French have decided to take back Canada by dropping old people on them... Oh well at least he won't hit nothin' too important when he crashes into Saskatoon.
only infrmatn esentil to understandn mst b tranmitd
He will not fly, he will fall!
I'd rather be sailing...
Quoth the article,
The free fall will involve 200 scientific experiments in the stratosphere and the troposphere, some of them linked to the possibility of parachute escapes from stranded space shuttles.
How long will it be until Russia gets in on this action for the space tourist looking for the "econo" trip?
:)
I could imaging sending someone to an altitude lower than the ISS and letting them take a long skydive.
Interesting experience... but could they ensure survival? I'm sure the standard extreme sport waiver forms would still apply
ISTR that the speed of sound changes with air pressure and it's faster when the pressure is lower. The speed of sound at sea level is around 300 m/sec so mach 1.68 at sea level would be around 500 m/sec.
But at 100,000 feet, the speed of sound in that thin air might be 1000 m/sec. So if the guy is falling at 500 m/sec at that altitude, that's really just half the speed of sound there. If he's falling at 1700 m/sec, that sounds awful, sonic booms and all that kind of thing.
So what's the deal?
(* Of course, if the chute doesn't open, the hole he'll make will be about 1,000 metres deep." *)
I hope he does it near my hometown. I always wanted to visit that crater in Arizona, but it is too far and too hot.
We need a local one.
Table-ized A.I.
http://www2.tsixroads.com/Corinth_MLSANDY/jk004
including an amazing shot of him taken from the gondola from which he jumped:
http://www2.tsixroads.com/Corinth_MLSANDY/corin
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
Speed of sound is significantly lower higher in the atmosphere, and since there is less air resistance, he can fall faster.
The last attempt, five miles lower, got pretty close to the speed of sound, this should do it. Not sure how safe it would be, but he should break it.
Of course, if his chute doesn't open, he becomes his own airbrake and bursts into flames.
I am a science fantasy fan
Nobody is obligated to do with their money what YOU feel is the best thing. How many of the qualities of life you take for granted today would not exist if someone hadn't "wasted" a lot of time, money, and effort on things that have "no relevance"?
I personally have no desire to float 25 miles up into the atmosphere in temperatures over a hundred degrees below freezing just so I can fall faster than the speed of sound. But if this guy wants to do it, more power to him. As long as SOMEONE is reaching higher for what nobody in their right mind would ever want to do, the rest of the world will benefit as a result, even if indirectly.
I'm not saying that funding medical research is bad. Its just as noble an endevour as any other. But to say that other reasearch does no good for the world simply because the immediate results do not, is very short sighted and reeks very badly of the "everything's already been invented" mentality. And besides, consider the fact that since he has partially funded this effort of his, the experiments he's carrying out will benefit agencies that otherwise would have to spend their own money to carry out similar experiments anyway. That means that money will be saved.. which means it might be available elsewhere, including your own personal preferred pet projects. And that's just looking at things from an immediate economic point of view.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
The previous jumper who exceeded the sound barrier (Joe Kittinger) jumped from a height of 19 miles, so we're talking here 6 additional miles here.
Additionally, it is unlikely Michel Fournier will even realise when he breaks the sound barrier due to the fact he would be travelling faster than the noise he actually makes. Kittinger stated when he reached the ground that he didn't believe he actually did break the barrier and had to be assured by scientists watching the drop that he, in fact, did.
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
65 million years ago, the dinosaurs disappeared mysteriously from the earth, supposedly caused by an impact from a meteor or piece of comet.
A.D.2002: A retired French army colonel makes his skydive from 25 miles up. As he approaches mach 1.68, a bright flash is seen, and he vanishes. For years, the mystery of what happened to him remains unsolved.
A.D.2042: It is discovered that at the moment the retired colonel reached mach 1.68, he caused a rift in the space-time continuum and travelled 65 million years back in time and slammed into the earth at 1200MPH, creator a crator and wiping out dinosaur life.
He's sold his house and some personal belongings to pay for this and, according to the article, "the free fall will involve 200 scientific experiments in the stratosphere and the troposphere". If you're so concerned, why not sell your house (if you have one) and give the money to medical research?
"Will shall be the sterner, heart the boulder, spirit the braver, as our strength lessens. The Battle of Maldon"
Interesting sig. I was born in Maldon and reading that has made me want to learn more about the battle. Though it's spelt 'bolder' - a 'boulder' is a large rock.
HH
ObToyStory:
Note: Not a flying rich guy.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
"So I look at something like this and go how will this advance mankind. The only answer is that it will not. This is like trying to balloon around the world. I think subjuects like this have no0 relevence on slashdot. He could take the money that he is squandering on this and give it to doctors without borders and actually do some good in this world. Isn't it time that postmodernism died."
You know what the moral difference is between robbing someone on the street at gunpoint, and using your government representatives to do it for you?
None.
What you state is VERY contrary to the spirit of freedom and individual liberty. What someone does with his own time and money is no business of yours at all.
How about your own life? That money you spent on that new RAM upgrade could have gone to help AIDS victims. That money you blew on beer and pr0n magazines could have gone to help the homeless.
See what I mean? This is, in essence, what socialism is: A central comitte decides what is done with money, property, and individuals, NOT the individuals.
I don't think that is what you are advocating, at least, I hope not...
If not for the individual freedom the USA is supposed to stand for, and the incredible spirit of adventure and creativity this spawns, the world wouldn't have had:
Charles Lindburgh
Wilbur and Orville Wright
Who both did things that were thought to be nutty at the time.
There is a reason why most great inventions of the past 150 years have happened in America. One word: Freedom.
Freedom to do with what is yours, and what gifts you have, as you will.
Corporatism != Free Market
How does a chute become frozen? Last time I checked nylon was already "frozen" at room temperature. ;-P
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
check out his home page:
e s/ gb_accueil.html
http://www.legrandsaut.org/
or straight to the english version:
http://www.legrandsaut.org/ressources/gb/gb_pag
He has some movies and facts and explanations and interviews....etc
At 1.68, air friction is not that bad at all. He's wearing a protective suit as well, to boot.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
I'd like to keep track of this story, anyone know when the jump is going to happen?
/. but apparently it never happened because the record is still in place. Anyone know what happened with that attempt? I think it may have been a women trying.
There was a story a couple years ago that was something to the same extent, I believe it was posted on
sig.
He could easily open the chute at any height without killing himself. Why? Because the chute is subject to the same air pressure (=resistance) his body is. Only problems would be (a) wind which might make it impossible for him to descend and (b) oxygen because it would take quite a long time to descend.
Fleur de Sel
At 25,000 feet, the earth's atmosphere is significantly thinner than at ground level. So there's an interesting effect going on here: When the skydiver jumps from the plane, he'll accelerate until he's falling at "terminal velocity".
But as he falls, the atmosphere will be thickening around him, and the "terminal velocity" will decrease. Which is kind of cool, because he'll be slowing down as he's falling!
The atmosphere is like a big, airy sponge around the Earth...
Those who can, do. Those who can't, simulate.
Well...He may get to hold the record for highest skydive but *I* hold the record for parachuting night pukes.
No one has gotten sick jumping out of an airplane at night as many times as I have.
I keep waiting for someone to try to break my record. They are all afraid to try!
See it here: http://AICommand.com/PukeDuke.htm
Guru312
> There is a reason why most great inventions of the past 150 years have happened in America. One word: Freedom.
You know, I have this strange feeling that there might be one or two other countries around the world that have some degree of freedom too...
I think having a relatively large population, and the natural tendancy to pay more attention to things that happen in your back yard may be where you have got this perception from.
Advanced users are users too!
... he can be burried in a Succrets box.
------
"And may your days be long upon the earth."
I just went skydiving for the first time yesterday.... albeit I only jumped from 10,000 feet... but the experience is undescribable. To all other slashdotters, I recommend that you give it a shot, even if you only jump from 2 miles, and not 20.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The sound heard on the ground as a "sonic boom" is the sudden onset and release of pressure after the buildup by the shock wave or "peak overpressure." The change in pressure caused by sonic boom is only a few pounds per square foot -- about the same pressure change we experience on an elevator as it descends two or three floors -- in a much shorter time period. It is the magnitude of this peak overpressure that describes a sonic boom.
now, all this relies on air pressure! If our skydiver hits the speed of sound up where there isn't any air to speak of, then he's not going to experience much of a boom at all now, is he?
This is not to say nothing of the fact that the boom appears to occur behind the cause, from the pilot's, or in our case the intrepid colonel's perspective. (that is, he is moving away from the sound at the speed of sound.)
NO BOOM PEOPLE, GET IT?
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
I like this picture better.
Bleh!
GE once designed a device called the MOOSE, to allow astronauts to bail out from orbit and re-enter the Earth's atmosphere with little more than a space suit and plastic cocoon (remember that early heat shields where basically a big slab of high-temperature plastic that would flake off during re-entry).Here's one link about the MOOSE: http://www.boggsspace.com/strange_but_true.htm
Marc! Marc Fleury! Vous etes trop age! Restez ici a Atlanta, et gagnez un grand vie!
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Which speed will he hold then he hits the ground? :)
FYI he is going to do this over this in the skies
over Saskatchewan,Canada. Saskatchewan, for the geographically challenged is located just north of
North Dakota and the southern part of it is as
flat as your outstreched, upturned hand. Guess he
doesn't want to land in any pointy terrain. Heard
an interview done with a colleague of his on the
CBC english morning radio program. Guess the Colonel
speaks no usable english and his assistant was little better so the interview was a real strain. Funny, just down the hall at our local CBC station are the offices of Radio-Canada, the french arm of
the CBC which broadcasts here locally also. You would think CBC english folk could ask someone from Radio-Canada (all fluently bilingual) for a
little help. Alas not. Sigh.
How hot would the surface of ones clothing/body become while traveling at mach 1.68 due to friction with the air?
You're kidding, right?
8th Dimensoin!
And returned with a rocket car.
Terminal Velocity
If he opened the parachute in high in the atmosphere the thin air would push LESS in the parachute then it would close to the ground (that's why he will travel so fast in the first place) the force would be the same any point on the trip down.
Though, if he opened it high in the atmoshere, it would take a long time to get down.
(appended to the end of comments you post)
It's a good story so I don't want to Lone Gunman it. Suffice it to say, no one gets killed and those involved weren't QUITE that stupid. There is a true story that gave birth to the urban legend. What REALLY happened isn't quite like the parent quoted Legend.
. ht ml
http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/RocketCar/rockit
Comment removed based on user account deletion
However, you're absolutely right in that it's not that hard to safely dive from much greater heights. I've personally seen people do 30 metre dives at acquatic shows.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
There's an article here on a different skydiver (mentions Fournier and another attemptee, too) shooting for the same record.
"If her plans succeed, on Sept 3, 2003, she'll ride a balloon to 130,000 feet, jump out in a McConnell Air Force Base pressurized space suit and free fall to Earth nearly 25 miles below -- landing somewhere within 70 miles of Wichita."
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
Going down isn't the problem. If the shuttle were geosynchronous, no problem.. if you had space suit, you could make the jump no problem (well, very little problem)..
But the shuttle is also moving around the earth VERY quickly.. something like 17,000 kph (feel free to correct me), which would kill you pretty much instantly when you encountered the atmosphere, and had to slow down your sideways speed.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
A few years back, I read an early "leaked" script for the movie "Star Trek: Generations" that had been circulated on the Net. Early on in the movie, before Kirk appears on the Enterprise-B, the script describe a scene of Kirk engaging in "orbital sky-diving", with Scotty and Chekov waiting for him at the landing zone. Since the rest of the script was dead-on compared to the movie, this scene *must* have been part of the original concept. Whether it was actually filmed is another story...
As a skydiver let me make a couple points:
/would/ end up like a fat skeeter on the windshield glass tho.
* the fastest you could get near the earth, regardless of how high you jump FROM, is a terminal velocity somewhat over 200mph. Big boys pencilled-out in a head down (looks just like it sounds) can break 200 but not skinny dudes like me. Of course you could always dress in a lead cone for more speed...
* no way the guy would make a crater. whoever said that must have been looking at the speed at 35,000m or something, and just did some quick (wrong) math. he
* there's no way you could survive hitting water at 120mph. it's similar to hitting concrete once you are going that fast. just ask my friends who dropped a watermelon from a helicopter over a lake... that sucker exploded like dan akroyd's experimental melon in Caddyshack 2.
* you want to be slowed to a terminal of ~120mph by the time your parachute opens... yes, some lines a.k.a. "ropes" would probably break if you opened at mach 1.something. opening at that speed might also rip your legs from your torso.
* this guy may have one or several "drogue" parachutes, or small chutes that would help to slow his rate of descent at various points. the "Tandem" jumps commonly done by first-timers have a drogue since with 2 people (and the same surface area) they would otherwise fall too fast to open the parachute safely (190-200mph is too fast). now, from space a drogue might help keep you from incinerating (since he would essentially be a meteor otherwise).
That is pretty high... i would like to make a HALO (high altitude, low opening) jump like the military (and rich folks) can do, from 30k feet or so with oxygen. But i'll settle for 14k feet which you all should try
(and now your shameless off-topic plug for skydiving...) come to skydiveorange (dot com) if you're in VA, that's where i jump
troll.
-- D-23994, Muff#2613
Most first time sky divers jump at 1066M.
I jumped from 4000M last weekend.
Actually 1000M is right about where most skydivers open their parachutes on an average jump. Some lower, some higer, but 1000M is average.
I jumped from 4000M last weekend, too.. opened just below 1000M and was still well within the rules.
-- D-23994, Muff#2613
Actually, gravity is less up there. By my dc calculations it will take him 8 days to travel the first 1000 meters, and then about 10 minutes for the rest of the trip. I think. Someone want to double-check my math? Hope he brought some food with him.
"Well, actually his max speed will be high up and near the earth the atmosphere will have slowed him down to terminal velocity."
at that high altitude, mach 1.6 IS his terminal velocity.....
The U.S. Army did this stuff back in the late 60's, only it was at 75-100K.
That was at 75 000 to 100 000 feet. This is to be done at 41 000 meters. There are just over three feet in a meter. Do the rest yourself.
I'll let you figger it out...
Nova did a great show on Joe Kittinger and his dive from 19 miles up.
t ratosphere.html
l ?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=
. htm
o ry2.html
They first tested it with human shaped models and found out the flatspin would be deadly, liquifying organs. After that they used a stabilizing chute to avoid the flatspin.
Exerpt:
http://www.yvcc.cc.wa.us/~chemyvcc/Skydive_From_S
Here's the link to the shockwave game:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/escape/skydive.html
Wired article:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.08/space.htm
Project Excelsior:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/coldwar/pe
I can no longer find my favorite desktop sized picture of the jump but a smaller one is here (the top picture):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/balloon/science/hist
Since he will break the sound barrier and eventually start to slow down, he could sing a close harmony duet with himself.
Cool.
I am a Karma Library.
If his life really did flash before his eyes, what would hapen when he ran out of life? Would he have to watch it more than once?
I guess they why they picked such an old guy.
Wouldn't want him getting bored and falling asleep half way down . . .
"If being a geek means being passionate about something, then I pity those who aren't geeks." - Pike65
First time I read the story, I thought it said "a retarded French army colonel who is soon to make a free fall parachute jump from 25 miles up."
AJS
I thought sky divers wore baggy clothes, to reduce their terminal velocity, so that they could spend more time in free fall. How far can you push this? Could you wear a flying squirrel suit, with cloth between you arms and legs, to get your terminal velocity down to say 50mph?
If that worked, could it be the basis for a fairground ride: Enourmous fans blast air upwards at 50mph. Customers wear flying squirrel suits, and get to fly about in the air stream, a bit like being a bird.
How would the shuttle being geosynchronous be any safer? If you are thinking that you will fall straight down onto the spot you are orbiting over, you are wrong.
Newton's laws state that there must be a conservation of momentum. The linear velocity (which is tangent to the orbit) at GSO is 6-7000kph (IIRC). You would need to cancel this first, before you start falling straight down.
And if you managed to do that, the acceleration from gravity would get you up to a nice velocity (don't feel like doing a diff eq right now). When you hit the Earth's atmosphere, you also would do it at a less than optimal angle which would cause the air friction to build up faster than the astronaut (or any vehicle) could tolerate. The result is rapidly increasing heat and pressure resulting in the vaporization of the object (much like most meteors).
This doesn't sound like "no problem" to me.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Postmodernism is inefficient... use Getmodernism instead.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
If he is successful, he will break a 42-year-old record set by an American colonel, Joe Kittinger, who jumped from 31,333 metres over Florida in August 1960.
Damn Joe was almost 31337.
----------------------
58.0% slashdot corrupt
here's a VERY intersting page on high-altitude skydiving...it's main focus is civilian HALO jumping, but there's quite a bit of very good information on space-jumping. includes Kittinger, the French dude, another woman who wants to jump from 130K this year, and lots and lots of space-escape systems. great way to burn an hour at work.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Isn't terminal velocity on the order of 260+ miles per hour. That means that with out some type of assistance (some type of engine, rocket, etc) he should not be able to get anywhere near the sound barrier. Just as an FYI terminal velocity is the highest speed at which the earths gravity may pull an object. This is, of course, effected by wind resistance etc. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I'm a programmer, I don't have to spell correctly; I just have to spell consistently
Interesting stunt, but isn't it hard to breathe up there ? Heck, just in a roller coaster I have trouble breathing sometimes, and that's just a short drop of a few dozen feet. And what about (de)compression ? Deep-sea divers start having problems after going a certain depth, isn't there a reverse effect at high altitude where air pressure is very low ?
-Billco, Fnarg.com
The previous records he'll be breaking were set in the 60's, the last being in 1966. What's the deal? Have there just been two generations of lamers?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Let the flying area be 10 meters by 10 meters.
:-)
50mph is a little over 20 meters per second.
Thus the volume of flow required is 2000 cubic meters per second.
Each cubic meter of air has a mass of about 1 kg, so it has a kinetic energy, half m v squared, of 1/2 x 1 x 20 x 20 = 200 Joules. We need 2000 cubic meters per second, so 400kW.
This is a bit more that 500hp, so the idea is not impractical because the fans would take too much power
Terminal Velocity: the speed of a VT-100 sailing out an open window....
Umm.. if you're in orbit, you're not going to fall. Jumping out of the shuttle in orbit isn't a problem, but you're not going to go down. You're going to float in orbit alongside the shuttle. To go down, you would have to deorbit, which requires thrust. So actually going down is quite a bit of a problem.
I'm all for freedom and such, but where'd you get the idea that most great inventions in the past 150 years came from America? (By which you mean the U. S. of America, remember there's more to America than "America")
Industrial things got invented in western Europe. Mathematical stuff tends to come from Eastern Europe. Electronics are from Japan. Basketball is from Canada. What else is left?
- Alanoman