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The Age of Aggressive Linux Advocacy Is Upon Us?
GonzoJohn writes "Jamie Harrison, founder of GBLUG in Glen Burnie, Maryland, has written an exclusive editorial for Linux Orbit about how he sees the state of Linux advocacy.
"Whether we want to admit it or not, Linux has entered a critical period in its development - a period that may, in fact, determine in fate forever.
Now that Linux is no longer a strange little niche Operating System, and has developed to the point where Microsoft actually feels threatened by its proliferation, the folks in Redmond are doing everything they can in the way of software design, legislation, regulation and control of the internet to snuff Linux out. The main reason that they have failed up to this point is that Linux has matured and grown in popularity, gaining public and private defenders in the consumer market and especially the corporate boardroom."
Read the editorial here" I don't think that I agree with all the points here - but it's an informative read if nothing else.
For all Linux's technical superiority to Windows, we as a community must not be seen as childishly attacking Microsoft. (A trivial example being spelling their name with a '$')
Most non-technical people perceive a community by their loudest members. If all the 'Linux' community can offer is "Mickey$oft SUXXX!" and "You're too stupid to write your own device drivers, you don't deserve a computer!" then Linux shall forever remain a niche Operating System.
Now, if you'd said that the age of polite linux advocacy was upon us, I'd have been interested.
On a more serious note: what's this crap about Linux dying? Linux can't die until the last developer croaks. That's unlikely to happen. Linux may lose corporate support (unlikely, but not impossible), but that's a long way from Linux's death.
I think it's been getting worse lately, witness any of Michael's screeds against MS, and then the me-too comments, and you get the feeling there's less Linux advocacy and more and more Microsoft bashing, whether it's deserved or not.
The idea that Microsoft is paranoid and fearing Linux might be true, but is totally overblown. Microsoft fears any competition, the most likely competitor is Apple more than Linux.
So maybe it's time the Linux advocates look in the mirror first and see what kind of advocate they'd like to be.
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
I seemed to feel a tone of 'manifest destiny' in the article. Is it just me who believes that philosophy is completely irrelevant to Linux?
We don't NEED to gain market share. We don't NEED to singlehandedly supplant Windows in order to be successful. In fact, if Linux does supplant Windows, it's just going to become the next widely-hated major OS of the time, until someone else comes along and supplants Linux. Doesn't sound like fun to me.
What goals does the Linux community have, other than supplanting Windows? Hrm.... creating an autonymously stable and useful operating system. Showing the Windows world what it's like to build an OS that interoperates with the majority of standards out there. Tons of others.... Why do we feel this conquistador-like goal to take over the OS world? It seems bullish and idiotic to me. There are much better things we can accomplish, cooperatively, when we're not wasting our time trying to dominate. If we keep this up for too long, Linux really will be the next Windows, in all the worst ways.
.... um, i lost you after "0110100001101001".
Be active in the Linux community!
Sure. I'd like to contribute to linux by answering newbie questions (even though 90% of these can be found by a google search or the first 5 lines of the man page)
However what annoys me most is some GUI features of linux. I'd really like to help improving that. Now the problem is that I doen't speak C++, and I don't want to spend years learning it.
I would be able to make a drawing about possible improvements, but I do have the feeling that peaople that are not 31337 just won't be taken seriously by true coders.
So: Would there be a way for non-coders to make a contribution to GNU software?
This needs to be a two front war.
The first front is the aggressive advocacy. However with increased spotlight (both good and bad) comes increased scrutiny.
There are many tasks that linux can handle with aplomb. And for those things that it doesn't, we need to get working on it.
And yes I mean we. So how can *I* help?
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Fight fire with fire! :-)
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
This is what some of us have been saying for years.
The single biggest threat to the success of Linux is the Linux zealot who reads Slashdot, thinks UserFriendly is funny, talks about Monty Python incessently, and recompiles his kernel daily. Windows has its geeks, too, but it also has a ton of normal people who get some fresh air once in a while and enjoy the company of other humans.
Slashdot should be working to counteract this, not by trying to become still more geeky and elitist, but by trying to attract a more middle-of-the-road audience. How about a Sports section, or a columnist who deals with issues that everyone cares about, like taxes?
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
(thus forcing hardware & software companies to consider the impact that Linux will have on their bottom line before making any deals with the devil)
:b
But I thought Linux was more popular then BSD, hmmm...I smell something fishy going on here.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Blender And Linux Fan
Linux is still inferior to Windows in functionality and ease of use. It's popularity is growing only because of Microsoft's continuing (and getting worse) bullying behavior and increasing onerous licensing practices.
Just what we need another zealot organization. Who remembers the days when Team OS/2 would do the same things you are proposing?
m ai l/mail52.html
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives/archives
I do agree with putting your money where your mouth is, but preaching to "non-converts" when you don't have the actual goods to back it up borders on futile.
The lady in the checkout wants to turn her PC and play a game or balance her checkbook. She doesn't want to hunt online for these things. She wants to buy them at the local store.
something that neededs to be aggressivly addressed with the (U.S.) government is the fact that Microsoft has been convicted of being an illegal monopoly and that the government should at least move away from doing business with a monopoly and diversifiying the competition with other OS's (Mac OS, *Nix, etc...), their choice, just not that of an illegal monopoly.
Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
there is a great group in NYC that advocates Free software on the desktop it is NYLXS . I am participant in the group. We are trying to create a desktop for Accountants.
The reason Linux has succeeded is that it is free and Microsoft chose not to drive it out with "predatory" pricing. You can install Linux and run it without paying a dime. You can't do that with any form of Windows (legally). Once Linux got a foothold and people began simplifying it, it was too late for Gates. Now that XP has been released, Gates will see a further erosion in the Dark Side as people get fed up with the license scheme and start coming into the light.
If it weren't for Netscape, we would be paying for IE. Same deal.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
We have to be realistic. Even if Linux usage on the desktop increases by 400% over the next several years, it isn't going to make any real difference. Why? Because Microsoft has the high ground. They make massive financial contributions to the right people - namely the campaign funding pots of the US government.
In 3 years time, Microsoft in conjunction with AMD and Intel are going to start setting up a hardware and internet infrastructure which Linux will not be able to run on. Want to install Linux on your new PC? Can't - the CPU won't let you because it doesn't support their properterial encryption. Want to run a DVD, a Direct X game, a TV tuner, a new 'security concious' hard drive or motherboard? Can't, for much the same reasons. Next it'll be email, then webpages, and so on.
Anti trust laws you say? Won't work. MS has more power over the US government than the oil barons. Think about that. There is also another dimension. There is a little thing called 'war on terrorism' on right now, and having every computer in the world capible of being easily monitored, controlled, observed and disabled by US inteligence agencies, because of the next version of Window's 'security', will greatly appeal to them... don't underestimate this factor.
If you want to stop Microsoft, extending the user numbers isn't going to help much. Microsoft can simply cut off the air supply. The only way to stop them now is to actually get politicians in power who aren't all incompetent or corrupt fatcats.
Many linux advocates want everyone to admit linux is superior but they don't really want everyone to use it.
Maybe we could all go door-to-door, in order to "spread the good news of Tux". This guy is ridiculous.
I should drive on over and check this out being right next to Glen Burnie.
Me, personally, I think that this is a poorly written speech for this PC tech's monthly Toastmasters meeting. Linux has matured and is ready for significant enterprise deployment.
The age of professional Linux advocacy is needed.
Linux has no critical period.
Linux doesn't care about business cycles.
Linux doesn't need a market.
Linux will always survive to fight another day.
Linux doesn't need anything.
Linux will live through FUD.
Linux has a future.
Linux will not die.
I for one do not use Linux so I can be an advocate of an OS and fuel the hype machine. Once you stop reacting to MS and start ignoring them you will understand. People are going to be just that, people. They will buy / use whatever they are told repeatedly is the best, what their friends use, what they are forced to use at work, etc. Let's not forget that most people do not care about an operating system!
So what do I do for the "cause"? I wear Linux t-shirts, I help friends who are interested in learning Linux (or any 'nix for that matter), and I go about my business with my OS of choice. Those who are interested enough to explore the world of Linux will, and many of them will stay. The ones you have to evangelize are a lost cause. You will never compete with the likes of MS for mindshare.
..given that some of us have been doing this exact thing for 10 years. I went and bought Caldera because it had WordPerfect for Linux. I bought Civ III for Linux from Loki. A LOT has changed since 1992, when vendors would stare blankly at you and say "Linux?". Anyone remember the fights with Diamond and ATI over releasing specs? How about the vendors that were distributing binary-only drivers until we reverse-engineered the hardware and made it work anyway? Here we are now at the point of vendors going out of their way to tell us it works with Linux, or runs Linux.
Is Linux ready for the commercial desktop? You bet. The apps are there, the OS is solid, and net admins can easily manage large installations.
Is it ready for the home desktop? No way. The home apps aren't there (read: games). Not everyone is or wants to be a system administrator. Look at the zillion unpatched windows boxes out there and think what would happen if they all had a [Apache|OpenSSH|ftp] vulnerability? What if the vulnerability was in something more obscure, like snmp? RedHat and Ximian (and others) have made great strides in getting there, but there's a lot of work remaining to be done.
So go out, do the things you do, and spread the word. Write documentation, submit bug reports, fix bugs, buy software, register hardware and tell them you use Linux.
Every now and then, around once per month, someone in the crowd stands up, and pretends that Linux/Free Software/his favorite mojo is on the brink of a revolution ( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc...).
Those PR effects of people believing that Open Source is falling asleep is just tiring.
[Pruneau
How can Microsoft "kill" Linux.
They can't. Linux is not a company.
As long as there are developers developing
Linux and software for Linux, and as long as there are Linux users Linux will be alive and well.
Whoever wants to use Linux is and will be able to,
and there is nothing Microsoft can do about it.
Although it would be nice to see Linux on the
majority of PC's out there, it is not a requirement for Linux to survive.
Heffel
Expert Java EE Consulting
Let's settle this once and for all...challenge Bill Gates to a cage match with CowboyNeal - winner takes all!
(Note: This is a repost of a post made in reply to another post under the "Is Linux Dead?" thread from a couple of weeks ago. The original post advocated more commercial-type advertising for Linux and was titled, "Advertising would help")
Wrong. Let me explain please.
First, please do know I'm one of the three (a rough guess) people on the planet who are deep geeks with a marketing background. Okay, that said, here's some info to graze upon.
In the marketing world all research for the past 100 years shows that the very best -- bar none -- type of advertising is, surprise, word of mouth. Nothing has every beat it, nothing ever will beat it. People will trust the opinions of people they know first hand over any advertisement. Why do you think there are so many ads which try to establish that type of trust relationship in the minds of the ad viewer? These types of testimonial ads are among the most successful types of ads, but pale in comparison with "word of mouth" in terms of pure clout with the target audience.
Linux is doing as good as it is (which is very good indeed) because of a number of factors: quality, cost, and -- ta da -- the number of in-the-know technical people (computer geeks) who say it's as good or better than the commercial stuff available. Word of mouth advertising by people who have the confidence of the people with whom they're talking.
Who do you think mom or grandma or little brother/sister is going to believe, Microsoft ads or you? If they have any experience with MS product over the past ten years then they're not going to be inclined to believe anything in a MS ad -- their personal experience tells them MS marketing is geared toward getting the money out of their pocket and MS product is not very good.
You, the techincal person in-the-know, are in a great position compared with MS. You have a product with outstanding quality, an impossible-to-beat value-to-cost ratio and an entire, world-class army of other techies who are saying the same thing you are.
In my opinion, Gnu/Linux/OSS/Freeware advocates would do best to just keep doing what they've been doing. Don't focus on bashing MS, just make honest comparisons, be up front with newbies about the learning curve (harder to learn, easier to use) and focus on the benefits of the product when compared with the competition. You'll continue to win big!
Frankly, if I were leading a marketing push for Linux right now, I'd say that it's time for the little guy to be "on." Not the uber hackers (who do their own stuff so well) but all Linux users: Time for them to really focus on truely helping others understand the choices available and then helping them get going down the learning curve (which has become much shallower in the past year -- Gnome/KDE/OpenOffice.org -- hero-level work folks, congrats and thanks!)
So, if you want to help the world avoid continuus and expanding MS hell:
1. Join your local LUG or start one.
2. Learn how to make a simple press release and learn where to send copies for your area.
3. Offer some free evening classes to individuals and small businesses via the press releases (donate some time -- see next item.)
4. Make sure there are resources in your area for individuals/businesses (consultants, tutors, etc. -- if you're not seeing $$$ by now you're blind.)
5. Always remember that you serve yourself best when you do your best to help those you are targeting. This is the essense of quality! I know it sounds odd, but it works: The more helpful you are for your audience, the more rewards you'll see for yourself.
I coulda/shoulda/woulda been a preacher but that whole god thing really got it the way.
Everything in the Universe sucks: It's the law!
We should hire Ally McBeal. :)
Or, for that matter, AMD enthusiasts. I've talked to several computer journalists over the years who simply stopped writing about anything other than Windows on Intel because of the OS/2, Mac, etc enthusiasts. If they said 20 nice things about the favored system, and one bad thing, they would get tons of flames accusing them of being sellouts for mentioning the one bad thing.
Best Slashdot Co
...I seem to have been bombarded with aggressive linux advocacy almost constantly. If the deluge is going to stepped up still further, I will resign from the I.T. community and join the more mature finger-painting community.
Actually, I thought the Linux shrillness was dying down, which is why Apple have had to start a negative marketing campaign to keep the fuss going.
Apart from cutting code, the following activities need addressing:
;-)
- Testing (including usability testing).
- Writing documentation.
- Translating documentation and software.
- Drawing pretty pictures and icons for use in applications.
- Maintaining bug databases and feature requests.
- Sales.
- Sending encouraging noises and objects towards the people cutting the code
You $pelled it wrong - it'$ not 'Mickey$oft SUXXX' it'$ 'Micro$haft $uk$ Moo$e Dick$!!!'
It'$ called free $peech for a rea$son.
How 'mature' ha$ Micro$haft been in their attack$ on Linux?
$o get off your high hor$e and back to cla$$ before the bell ring$.
He is right that Linux is constantly under threat - from closed hardware vendors, from legislation, from FUD, from M$ establishing closed protocols etc. And he is right that bigger market share for Linux will tend to make it more of an unstoppable force.
But I'm not sure if TUX tee-shirts and "advocacy" for the sake of advocacy is going to do much. Linux advocates plod on, and continue to successfully. The distributions get better, the application support better. The whole team is advancing the cause of Linux from all fronts, ok yes advocacy included. It's the whole team which will bring Linux to the forefront, not just burning ourselves out on "advocacy".
I am curious which IRC networks have #linuxhelp etc.. channels who actually ARE interested in helping newbies. Last night I lurked in a channel and watched members attack a BSD user, and ban him, accuse someone else of 'trying to get their class homework done' as well as many RTFMs. A nice list of more 'user-friendly' networks and/or channels would be appreciated.
I believe that Microsoft actually doesn't mind that Apple exists.
#1 Their OS only runs on propriatary hardware and the number of deployed systems is quite small compared to the number of Windows systems.
#2 Microsoft is able to make money from Apple users through application sales (Microsoft Office)
#3 Microsoft can point to Apple as being a worthy competitor thereby reducing the effect of Microsofts monopoly. (remember, Microsoft made a big contribution to Apple at a critical time not so long ago).
Basically, at this stage, Microsoft has nothing to fear from Apple. Once (if ever) Apple is able to take more than 10% or 20% of the market from Windows, watch out.
Microsoft fears Linux because they realize there is no easy way to make money from the Linux users other than porting (and maintaining various flavors for each version of Linux) Microsoft Office.
Linux runs on nearly every platform and is primarily used on cheap X86-based hardware rather than expensive propriatary systems.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
This is essentially old news.
Linux needs to be more mature; let me qualify that- I do not own a Windows machine. Everything here runs something else. For me, the fact is that i cannot in good conscience set up a linux machine for a friend who wants a `general purpose' computer.
Okay, why is that? Because I can't just let them go with the latest Wiggles interactive CD kids game and expect it to work. Sure, wine is about... and it does work well for some things.. But not all. And that really doesn't cut it for Joe Sixpack.
Open standards are really our friends here. What if the Wiggles CD features *only* content that we freely support (I'm thinking of stuff that works in Mozilla) . That's fine. It works. Promote open standards.
Promoting linux isn't really what we want. Look beyond! Our problem is the .doc format (okay, okay.. there's a perl script somewhere that reads the format, and there's wvLatex, but seriously-- J.Q Sixpack doesn't care)
Open standards will additionally allow the *BSDs and anyone else and their dog do whatever they want.
Open Standards.. okay-- i've used the phrase a lot, and I'm sure somebody will have a problem with it... this is slashdot after all.... What I really want is somebody to be able to ask "Could I and a few of my friends make something that does all that? Is all the information available? Is it published? Or is there some trade secret involved which the manufacturer/author will not disclose?"
Hey.. visit my website... Clinton East
"Amen Brother!"
Dunno, did this seem a bit...overboard to anyone else?
And I kind of feel like not enough reasoning and detail was given. I mean, why just talk to anyone about linux? Most people don't give a shit about what the hell is on their computer, as long as it does what they want it to. They don't want to think about whether they are running Windows XP or Red Hat Linux or MyCrunchyOS 19.34 or whatever. It seems to me to be more effective to target specific people. Target those hobbyists, target those people who are concerned about privacy, target those school teachers who want a cheap way to teach their students about computers and how to use computers without being beholden to Microsoft...I mean, we need to think a little bit about it if we want to be advocates, not just grab a big posterboard of Tux on a stick and go out and walk around. No one is going to have any idea what the hell the point is. Sure, the penguin is cute, sure maybe it'll stick in people's minds, but if you can actually get someone to INSTALL linux and USE it isn't that a little more worthwhile? Then again, maybe not, I'm not a marketing guru...
I also think there is an interesting debate that always pops up about "do we want to appeal to everyone." Now, this isn't the same as being a snob and telling all the newbies on the newsgroups to RTFM. It's more a question of focus, do we focus on making sure everyone knows that the little cute fat penguin = linux, or do we focus on making Linux really useful for our_own_satisfaction_ and everyone who likes it can come along for the ride? Do you see what I mean?
I do really wonder what the point is sometimes of these advocates; what is the benefit of 'controlling the world?' Is it more just an attitude that Microsoft needs to go? What's the real priority here?
Developers need to make Linux the best OS. If you build it and they will come.
v al uation/compare/advantage.asp
MS lists some aspects that Windows is better for the server market. Now, whether or not they are right, they are at least making the argument. The simplist way to counter is to better them, so that there can be no creidble argument, at exactly these points.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Embedded/sak/e
Most IT managers reading this are going to whither, and have second thoughts about Linux.
The front page of linux.com should have a response to this exact feature set. And if Linux isn't competitive, guess what development should look like?
The same goes for the home market. Go and take a look at Apple. They've really got their shit together. If Linux can offer a GUI with as much simplicity and clean integration, it will make inroads there too, perhaps with younger. Apple's "switch" campaign could be a great long-term theme for linux.com.
Lastly, money doesn't have much to do with Linux. People like it because it's free, and developers code for it as a community -- not commercial -- effort. Focusing on cash support may actually work against Linux. Dependence on cash is a great weakness of businesses. Why should Linux take it on, esp. when it can't come close to the cash position of Apple, much less Microsoft?
Just put your time in and make it the best OS.
Me: G'day gorgeous can I buy u a drink? ... um.. there.
Her: I'd love one. Whats that on ur shirt?
Me: It's Tux from this cool new OS called linux.
Her: Um... i gotta go stand over
Me: Damn that stupid article.
Just as we laugh at Microsoft for slinging their anti-Linux FUD, we must be careful not to sling it back. If we present a professional image, and are perceived as a helpful community (I know how tempting it is to yell RTFM!) then we can only attract more people who are becoming disillusioned with Microsoft's insecure and unscalable offerings.
"Based on the Linux Kernel."
--
Linux for the average user is technically there, but the real battle is in the hearts and minds of the youth.
So I propose that we pool our cahs and hire a celecrity pop icon, like scantily-clad Brittan Spears or something to do a Linux PSA with a catchy dance rythm.
How sleepless is the egg, knowing that which throws the stone forsees the bone.
The biggest quality point he has is that the majority of computer users could care less which OS they are using, as long as they can point and click their programs into and out of existence, and easily install hardware that they purchase.
"Windows for Dummies" is one of the best selling dummies books for a good reason. Even windows doesn't always work the way people want it to.
If the Linux crowd wants to move the Linux OS into the mainstream, they are going to have to make it as easy and simple as possible. More so then windows perhaps. Add more help boxes, give a better manual then windows (There are companies in Japan with excellent manuals,) make it easy to install and remove software/hardware.
When these objectives are reached, I can guarantee you that more people will use Linux.
As well, provide an easy way for device drivers to be distributed for linux boxes. A big problem I have found with some of my friends that have switched to Linux is how difficult it is to find good drivers for some of their old peripherals.
~ kjrose
I agree in general, but I'd like to add something important. In the "corporate boardroom" this is irrelevant. I'm sure that when a Red Hat rep walks into a company his materials leave out the $ in Micro$oft. A company needs an internal linux advocate (like me at my company) who speaks intelligently about it. As long as I speak knowledgably and maturely, my promotion of linux is heard. My manager, his boss, and the CTO don't care about the linux community and won't be reading /. or any other linux/open source community sites any time soon. When decisions are to be made, it's my voice they'll remember. Similar to what you said, they'll ignore the community, but perceive linux from the loudest voice they hear: me.
Developers: We can use your help.
In this case, although anyone can argue that Linux can't die, as it is free, and has no single source to kill (for example, if red hat were to go out of business, linux would not die), linux could still be renedered inoperable on modern systems. Look at the recent furor over Palladium. This, and other proprietary systems that could be created in the future could either make linux unusable on a desktop, or make it practically useless for other purposes. Suppose Microsoft, or whoever, brokered a deal with ISPs to only accept packets coming from their proprietary, digitally signed, and hardware backed system that would not run Linux. Things are unlikely to ever be that extreme, but you have to understand that Linux can actually die...
It seems that every week there is a new 'critical period' for Linux. Sheesh. Give it up guys, and lets just agree that we're in one massive 'critical period' instead of a bunch of tiny ones.
Apple is a more likely competitor? Hardly! Apple had been and will continue to be a niche product. The reason is that the mindset that drives apple is little different than that which drives Microsoft. What Microsoft is afraid of isn't Linux per se. What they are afraid of is that as a whole, corporations will become convinced that open source is the best way to do things. If that happens, Microsoft is completely screwed. Linux just tends to most directly illustrate the threat.
Unlike many of their competitors (most notable IBM), they have little substantial revenue outside of their software production. They are particularly lacking in the services arena. Thus they are uniquely vulnerable to anything that could force down the margins for software. The operating system has been a commodity for the last 5 years or so and it's only Microsoft's domination of the market that has kept that little fact from disrupting their cash flow. Today, as an operating system, Linux is capable of everything Windows is and that means that people may start to recognizae how commodity Windows is. That will hurt their bottom line if that notion spreads far enough.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Let's see who can advocate Linux without resorting to childish antics:
Linux user: "So, have you ever tried Linux?"
Windows user: "No, I use Windows. What's Linux?"
Linux user: "Windows?! You fucking idiot!"
A less harsh push for the GPL would help, too. To get corporate backing corporations have to believe that there is money to be made, and there is no money to be made when Red Hat can assume their work and move on (as if anyone reads copyleft credit in source or the about dialog.) Linux on the mainstream means proprietary applications, including those from Microsoft. Otherwise Linux will remain by kids in a basement for kids in a basement. RMS be damned. He's done more to damage any cause than promote it.
i have to dissagree on 'The idea that Microsoft is paranoid and fearing Linux might be true, but is totally overblown. Microsoft fears any competition, the most likely competitor is Apple more than Linux.'
2 reasons.
1. i think bill the gates going down to peru indicates that linux, 'free software' is very threatening.
2. apple requires new hardware. a more expensive option than installing linux on existing x86 hardware therfore makes it an easier option than apple and adds to the more threatening.
thats just my opinon at the moment. subject to change without notice.
all spelling mistakes are property of author.
You can use the Microsoft tradename in your comments as you like.
Microsoft's right to the trademark only extends to the right to attach it to products being sold. It does not have the right to prevent the of their trademark in public discussions about their company or their products.
Besides, if you use the correct trademark "Microsoft", then the comments you make will be correctly associated with the correct trademark and not some fake moniker.
So, use "Microsoft". I try not to ever use MS, Micro$oft or any other false name.
It is the tradename that should carry the burden of the bad reputation causes by Microsoft's illegal acts. Not some other name.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
I think that the author of this article is bending over too far. I love Open Source, I love its products, yet being blind about the rest of the world and proclaiming Linux on every corner can cause more harm than good. Linux and Open Source doesn't need a ton of fans following it blindly with disregard to the rest of the world. The actions speak louder than words. The statistics are more powerful than screaming "I love Linux!". A lot of people will come to realize the potential of Open Source and Linux without having it shoved down their throats. The last thing that I want to see is Linux being advertised in annoying commercials, stupid logos and all the other business techniques that would make most of the people sick. I would hate to see RedHat or some other Linux distribution running commercials on TV that remotely resemble the ones produced by Apple (as much as I love Macs, I think that those ads are just too much and they do turn people off, rather that attracting potential users). The best way to advertise Linux will be to write good software for it. With good software market both businesses and public will start using it. Thanks,
When you are involved in research, education, massive parallel computing, you have no choice: Linux. When you want to play games or if you're not comfortable typing at the keyboard other than for writing an email... you need windows. If linux can now do well in the middle territory of wordprocessing and browsing... OK there is a possibility for people to choose! So there are 3 classes of users that make the market sharing. And these 3 sets are often overlapping. OSX can do maybe both (not always) but it isn't free... no extinction risks, only adaptation
That aside, there are many reasons Linux would benefit by having larger marketshare. Briefly...
1. Device drivers - hw makers can't ignore large segments of the market
2. Apps, games, etc. same as 1
3. Choice, currently, Linux is only an option for a small segment of the market, due to 1 and 2. OS develoeprs often tout choice as a reason for OS
4. Promotion of standards, ie. prevent MS from "embracing and extending" everything under the sun. Don't we want the web to be more standards compliant?
5. Legislation. If large segments of the market are using Linux, OS can't be easily legislated out of the market like some are attempting to do.
I think that's enough.
I'll be blunt, Linux does not need elitist attitudes like I suspect yours is. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
Also, I don't think anyone is suggesting that Linux completely blow Windows off the desktop, just that it acheives enough marketshare to ensure my 5 points listed above.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Let me preface this by admitting that I've always been a computer contrarian. While all my friends in high school wanted Commodore 64s, I went from a VIC-20 to a C-128. While the rest of the world went PC, I had four different Amigas. Now I have Red Hat on my machine at home.
Maybe I'm just tired, but after reading the peice I came away thinking this guy must be a displaced Amiga user. It reads just like what an old Amgia fan (like me) would have been saying ten years ago about the Amiga.
I'm of the mind that most people just don't care. Their Wal-Mart-sourced HP Pavillion is good enough for them, and it came with Windows, or they believe it when some pimply-faced kid sneaking out with daddy's car explains why Dell is so much easier than facing a store salesman. It's kinda like beer: some people like German or Canadian(tm) beers, while for others Bud or even Milwaukee's Best is good enough. Some people appreciate the handling of a sports car, others are okay with a Pinto or a Matador.
I guess I'm just tired of casting my pearls before swine and getting no response. I can't even get my tech-savvy inlaws to try a dual boot. My wife, who doesn't do anything besides web and email won't try it. It doesn't matter that I can do just about anything that they can do with their Windows boxes. It doesn't matter that I have GUIs that are just as fancy and easy as theirs.
If people want what Linux, or any other contrarian OS has to offer, they'll find it.
Actually, the current Apple advertising campaign has been characterized as a bad way to get converts. The analysts who have weighed in on the issue characterize the ads as "preaching to the choir". Quite frankly, the campaign has actually engendered a backlash against Apple as typified by the mocking found in this recent cartoon.
Microsoft is probably much more affraid of Linux, because Linux is free. Microsoft cannot undercut Linux and burn money until Linux dies.
* although I suppose this could change now with Mozilla and Open Office almost ready for OSX.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
anyone else remember this? that went down like a lead zepplin (and I am not talking about the rock band).
That's exactly the kind of help I'm looking for for my projects and I'm ending up paying for some of the work.
I pay about half market rate to part time people still at collage mainly, it gives them a bit of experience and encourages them, there's no time lines or anything etc.....
n.b. 1/2 market rate is well over what you'd get paid in a salary job.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Seriously, having stickers will make a few people laugh, but is it a real way to change things? I don't think so.
After hearing the news of Palladium, I begun to ponder on ways to dramatically increase the Linux base. The best way I have found so far is to approach educational institutions. My university, for example, has a huge people-to-computer ratio, and I suspect that the reason we don't have more computers is that the average users knows only Windows. Since windows machine are a pain to operate ($$$) and the license (more $$$) go into the university budget (more teachers or more machines?) and the fact that computers are inexpensive, they try to push off the responsability of fair education on the student side.
Ironically, there are rooms filled with x11 terminals to unix system, which are nearly empty. The users who want to get into the system have to personally request access, instead of this being standard, or going with a guest account.
So when I get back, I hope to push the student assosciation into making real noise about this lack of access problem. At the same time, approach the Linux base we have, and get them involved to teach the newbies that the switch is not nearly so painfull.
Universities are really worth our time: they have huge visibility, the people coming out of there are the future leaders of ours societies, and are a few thousand strong of smart individuals, capable of installing Linux and using it.
If there are any people reading this that are from the University of Montréal, write to me or something. It's time to push. As we say in french, Pousse, mais pousse égal.
Karma:This parrot is dead! (and so is the joke.)
In the end I basically agree with the bullets. I do and will continue to promote linux. It was a good reminder that linux has a better chance to stick with the masses if it is promoted not on its geek aspects but through its merits and strengths.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
...both will have exploits, and it doesn't matter if the patch takes a day or a month to come out if it's never applied. I guess if the need was there Linux would have something like Window Critical Updates.
Besides, why would your average home user be running something like apache or a ftp daemon by default anyway, unless that is something they'd be doing in Windows too? They'll use their ISPs homepage space if anything.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Antitrust laws can work but it is a slow process.
The upcoming remedy in the States' case could be very helpful. But, it will not be sufficient. That is why AOL, SUN and BE filed their own private antitrust law suits. But, of course, their law suits will take years to work their way through the legal system. 5-8 years may be involved. And, if Microsoft continues illegal practices, several law suits by linux distributors may join in the mess.
In some ways the linux distributors should file suit now.
They could form a class action and sue OEMs and Microsoft to force open fair market opportunities for the distributors. The DELL case is a prime example. And, RedHat has already said publicly that many of the OEMs they have approached turn cold when linux on the desktop comes up.
Well. A class action of all linux distributors would be in order.
And, the purpose of that suit would be to stop all marketing agreements which serve to preclude lessor volume products from having fair and open markets.
The prime example is the huge discount that Microsoft offers if only Microsoft products are sold. Those kinds of agreements are in essence exclusive deals. No OEM can afford to pay $10 more per copy of windows in order to sell 5-10% of its systems pre-loaded with linux (or bare). Economically, it is cost prohibitive.
Some OEMs may be able to form separate subsidiaries just for the linux sales. Set up two companies. Share on the hardware deals but make separate and distinct software deals. Not that you will fool Microsoft. But, rather that the agreements are not being violated. In fact, they would be complied with since company B would be selling the linux products. And, company B has no deal with Microsoft at all. The fact they would use the same hardware is of no significance.
And, there may be other ways to avoid Microsoft precluding trade in linux products. Filing law suits is just one of those other ways.
DELL was made the patsy. They gave it a try until the chief idiots at Redmond took out their baseball bats. I call them idiots because it comes very close to extortion.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
I hate Tux, can't think of anything more annoying.
Ok, i know were discussing about Linux advocacy here, but what about windows advocates? Do you people have ever had the chance to read some stupid comments about some stupid windows advocates? Once I read that linux isnt a good OS because it wont work with onboard hardwares, like winmodens. This is so obvious, it wont work because MS dont let the manufacturers release specifications.
:))
Ok people, its not my intention to start a war here, my point is that advocates existing everywhere, for everything, what makes then diferent is their arguments. Sometimes windows users anoys us with their "linux sux" way of seeing things, sometimes linux users anoys us with their "linux rox" way... i mean, let us all stop fighting and live in peace!
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
Whistle me a tune, Adolph. I've heard your line before.
When Linus first developed this OS the geeks flocked on Usenet to support him. We must support him or this will never survive! He'll quit it! Long live Linus!
When each distro formed, the drums called the masses to the parade. C'mon, man...use it and advocate it or they'll stop making it! Go Slack/RedHat/Debian/etc!
When Linux first made an approach into the mainstream industry, supporting servers and mission-critical applications, the magazines and newspapers threw the mud in the face of Linux. Linux? Won't last. Can't last. Buncha geeks supporting it. HA! And the wave of fear once again traveled among the masses, To arms! To arms! We'll lose the day if we don't advocate! Convert your grandmother! Quiltix!
And so now, from a guy who is an NT network sysadmin and cites doomsday evidence of the revolution we hear the cry to war again.
Listen, folks: The war isn't over, nor is this a critical junction in the life of Linux.
The war has always been there...why wouldn't it? The brainchild of a geeky programmer is now running the huge servers of major industries. You can't tell me that the war hasn't been fought already and will still be fought on every line. It's not a single assault, folks, it's a never-ending push towards an ideal that we've conceived (or have been given) and we now advocate.
Advocate Linux.....*snort* What do you think we've been doing all this time?
Blog,Twitter
More than just the code.
There are many things you can do short of coding.
You can participate in beta programs. Almost all linux distributors have them. Some are more open than others. But, a lot of very useful work can be contributed in that way. And, it is not just limited to finding and reporting bugs either.
You can help by proposing alternative outlines or menu structures.
Right now Mandrake 8.2 is a fine distribution for many purposes. But, the menu outline is highly confusing. In part this is caused by the separate contributions of GNOME and KDE. And, in part it is caused by the very nature of collecting together contributed work from many separate or independant sources.
Windows, MAC, Xandros Linux, Corel Linux and Lindows each benefit from an effort to reform the presentation to the user into at least a chewable structure.
The LSB is an example of this kind of reform at the internal level. But, the face presented to the user needs some real improvement if the popularity of linux is going to increase. It has to be more organized, consistent and understandable.
For the user, Interface Design is a lot more important than the code. And, you can conclude from that the success of linux is going to be based upon how well the interface is designed rather than the quality of the coding. Microsoft has proven that to be the case time and time again.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Especially with people who are incapable of thinking analytically about software. Inertia is a powerful force, but standing friction is powerful too. Occasionally you have to kick something hard to get it moving in the right direction.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
This is an interesting idea, Microsoft could do it if they really wanted to. I'm sure this is a dilemma to Microsoft:
- If Microsoft release Office for Linux, they might be able to keep
that market even in case of a Linux takeover. OTOH by doing so they
will make Linux stronger with the risk of loosing the OS market.
- If Microsoft does not release Office for Linux, Windows will still
be the platform on which Microsoft Office runs most reliable. This
means that Office users have to use Windows, OTOH Linux users cannot
use Office.
Basically Microsoft has two choices, try to keep one market or try to keep both with higher risk of loosing both. Right now Microsoft tries to keep both markets. But projects like Wine are trying to prevent Microsoft from using that strategy.Next question is, could Microsoft at some point change strategy? They would have to be very afraid of Linux to do so. In theory Microsoft could already be developing Office for Linux, but they would want to keep that very secret. If people knew they were developing the product, they would also know that Microsoft find it likely for Linux to take over the OS market.
Microsoft knows that to make money from Linux, they would probably have to release Office for Linux. But selling Office for Linux is not the only money they would make from Linux. If Microsoft ever were to support Linux, they would probably also create their own distribution. This would of course come with a proprietary installer and applications. This means that copying the entire Microsoft GNU/Linux distribution would be illegal, but copying parts of it would be legal. Now we can guess about the prices Microsoft would choose for such a distribution. They might want to make Windows cheaper than their Linux distribution, because people would then think we are lying when we say Linux is cheaper than Windows. OTOH Microsoft would not want Windows to look like a discount system.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
IE is not free.
It costs billions to develop. And, there is no reason whatsoever that a monopolist who knows you must buy it would price it at zero. None. There are no reason.
Oh, they can lie about it.
But, Judge Jackson had it correct. IE is free when downloaded as is any product that you get without paying money. But, when you part with cash and you get IE in the box, you did in fact pay part of your money for IE.
Ask your mother. Ask your mother about those toys in your Happy Meal. She will tell you that they are not free. The toy in CrackerJacks is not free either. But, the HappyMeal toys are better, right? And, the HappyMeal costs more too, right?
Do not be confused into thinking gum you buy at the store must be free because a friend of yours gave you a free stick the day before. (That is the stupid argument that IE must be free because "others" can download it without paying. That is not what determines the price of your HappyMeal.)
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
If you want to convince someone (like your employer, say) to use linux, solve a problem for them using linux that they would be helpless to solve in windows.
I am a communications engineer working at a company that operates a satellite mobile data network. When I started working for them in 1998, my first task was to get on top of their network statistics and figure out how to monitor the performance of their network.
I started assembling a data analysis and display system using linux by piecing together the fantastic open source software packages available like tcpdump, ethereal, R, vnc, apache, bash, and many others. The continued development of this system has become my full time job and my employers and I couldn't be happier with each other.
Internally we are still a windows shop but linux is slowly taking over more and more functions because it solves our problems better.
"Is being a Linux advocate easy? Sometimes it is (bumper stickers, shirts, PC badges) and other times it requires more intestinal fortitude (talking to a Windows user about Linux, asking the manager of the computer store about their Linux offerings)."
./configure && make, su and make install. Several reboots later he finally succeeded in doing those things. He typed the wrong commands, didn't use enough spaces, etc.
./jre2.0something.bin". Then he asks me what to do with all that text. I told him to press "q" (no he couldn't figure that out). Then I told him to go to the folder where jre2something.bin is and doubleclick on the RPM. Several minutes later (he couldn't find the folder...), JRE was installed.
/usr/bin/java). So I told him to rm /usr/bin/java and proceed. It finally worked.
I convinced somebody to try Linux. So he download and installed Mandrake 8.2 (a newbie distribution). He doesn't know how big the swap should be so he made it 3 GB.
We must be able to communicate, so he needed an M$N client. I told him to download KMerlin, and told him to extract kmerlin-0.something.tar.gz, go to the extracted folder, click Tools->Open Terminal, type
I think it took 1 hour for him to install KMerlin...
He even asked me how to *start* KMerlin.
He wants KaZaA. At the time I didn't know how to run KaZaA in Wine so I gave him the URL to LimeWire. He also needed JRE so I pointed to java.sun.com. He couldn't find out how to start the installer, so I told him to open a console, and type "sh
He couldn't find out how to start LimeWire installer, so I told him to open a console and type "sh LimeWire.bin". That didn't work. And several minutes later I found out that Kaffe was in the way (because of all kinds of errors from
Total time to install LimeWire: 3 or 4 hours (no kidding!).
I'll skip the details about installing MPlayer (I first wanted him to use Xine but somehow Xine freezes at startup). It took a *very* long time (2 days or something). Partially because of this GCC 2.96 mess, and partially because he had to edit ~/.mplayer/conf to make things work correctly.
A few days later he removed Linux (he even said Linux sucks because you can't access Linux partitions from Windows!) and concluded that the reason companies don't use Linux is because it's too unuserfriendly.
I tried to help him, but this man will hate Linux forever.
So... is it really a good thing to continue with this advocacy thing?
The real reason Linux is gaining some ground with companies is because you can leave a machine running for days, weeks, months, and even years at a time.
Before I continue, I am an MCSE and I think XP is a decent OS, so I don't play the bashing game. Furthermore, I agree with a poster above who commented that we need to be less elitist here and focus more on gaining some voters from the middle - so to speak.
But Linux is currently in a very strong position simply because so many Microsoft products are completely unstable. People accept this only because they don't realize that it can be any different. Look at products like Exchange and ISA server. First BSD is used for Hotmail, and now Microsoft is using Netscreen for some project instead of ISA server. I have messed with ISA server and believe me, regardless of what Netscreen has to offer I am sure it is superior. They simply get away with shoddy stability and reliability because of their market power. This has to change.
The main reason they are so powerful is because any OS that rhymes with sticks strikes fear into the heart of 9 out of 10 Windows admins. They think Linux is some sort of elite and secretive vodoo magic that they can never understand. While this satisfies our egos it doesn't help Linux make headway against Microsoft.
Anyway, I think the true threat comes in the form of Microsoft realizing that they have a major problem and then simply taking the crucial step to fix things. This step, of course, is developing a Linux or BSD distro themselves. Once they do this and stack all of their features, integration, pretty boxes, and market pressure on top of it they are going to be unstoppable.
Imagine the power of Microsoft marketing combined with a rock solid *nix-based product. It would be devestating to competition due to its sheer strength. Imagine Outlook being redone to talk with Exchange (now Qmail based), ISA being based on IPTABLEs, etc...
This would be overpowering.
The window is right now if Linux wants to step up and show the world that it is more stable and security-minded than its overbearing competition. If it doesn't move soon it is going to wait too long and let Microsoft figure things out and bring their *nix. Once they do things will get a whole lot harder.
dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
1987: Replace 'Linux' with 'Amiga' Replace 'Tux' with 'Boing' Replace 'Microsoft' with 'Atari' Replace 'IBM' with 'Apple'
It entirely depends on what you use.
If you use Windows, you'll complain more about Windows (and Microsoft).
If you use Unix/Unix-like systems, you'll complain less but will have gripes about *nix.^
I've seen this in others who have had to deal with Windows, and now (as I try and move over some Windows servers to Solaris and Linux), I'm seeing it more in myself.
^. Solaris should adopt the typical tools and many of the shell defaults used under GNU-based *nix. Can't sort in 'top'? Command history defaults? Supporting Gnome is a plus, definately, but why be shy about using some things that are clearly better. Maybe the next major revision?
First of a little bit about me:
I consider myself a hacker. Not because I am a good coder, I am not can just make a living in PHP, or a whizkid who makes computers out of egg cartons. I consider myself a hacker cause I love messing about with computers. I am right now working on wooden case with water cooling so I can have a really really quit PC. There is a lot of stuff to read and find out about for that but that's what I enjoy. Soon I will start the building and I enjoy that to. The testing will come hopefully after that and yes even that I do enjoy.
The same goes for making websites. I like figuring out how to make things happen and weird config files, obscure documentation are just part of the challenge. I don't use a single GUI or shell for any of my configuration needs cause I don't need them, want them, like them, thrust them etc etc.
Now the point
Over the years I have worked as a developer in both regular back-office IT and web development. I have worked there with brilliant and hopeless co-workers. Sometimes you can rely on them and sometimes it is just easier to do it youreselve. One thing I have however learned is NEVER EVER try to convert anyone. Worst mistake you can ever make is to try to learn anyone to code that is not already doing so. There is a reason they are not doing it. THEY DON'T LIKE IT!
Call it the difference between people who code cause they like or because they see it as a career move.
Same really with linux. Those that are using it or are picking it up of their own free will deserve our help, and considering my own experience get it. Those that don't shouldn't be dragged in kicking and screaming. Take a very close look at apple. All attempts to increase its market share have fallen flat but so have all attempts to drive it out of the market. What is wrong with being a niche enviroment? Personally I would prefer if all these zealots would focus on BSD instead and leave linux alone. Linux for people who want linux, Windows for people who want windows, and mac for people who want mac, oh and pen and paper for everyone else.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The philosophies of Linux are not only relevant, but essential:
- Open Source. Whether you're a purist like RMS or not, the ability to [have someone working for you] see and occasionally modify source code is central to the value that Linux offers. It makes it possible to optimize the OS and core applications for specific hardware and purpose of the machine, customize the system to completely remove unused components for security reasons, etc.
- Open Protocols. Even when we don't have access to source code, we have well-established open standards for how programs providing certain services should communicate with other programs. This philosophy grew out of, and simultaneously made possible a corollary *nix tenet...
- Open Data Formats - Text Files. The configuration info for a program is held in an
.rc or .conf file that can be accessed just like any other file, not buried under layers of misdirection of GUIDs like {02468ACE-3F57-11AF-B579-08002D30DEFD} within a database stored in a proprietary format. This in turn makes possible another facet of the philosophy... - Interchangeable Parts. Don't like EMACS? Fine. Use vi, or a thousand other editors. They all manipulate text files, and once the file is created, your compiler, interpreter, or whatever really doesn't care. And this fits into another *nix philosophy...
- Small, Sharp Tools, or Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. Most of the work to be done on a *nix system can be accomplished by combining specific tools in a shell script. Metaphors such as piping and command substitution make it unecessary to compile a custom application to do what can be accomplished via
Without these philosophies, there would be no reason to prefer Linux to any other OS[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
I didn't see in the article or anywere here one ofthe main motives to make Linux more widespread. The fact that it is free. Speech free, that is.
No, I do not expect my mother to write plugins for her mail client. But we do stick with free software, or we will be left out. Left ou of the "misterious inner workings of computers and prograns", and that will be very soon.
Mr. Villanueva may have a better written document on why we should stick with free software than I could ever write.
But if we are talking just of being better or worse than windows, in this or that aspect, of being cheaper, we are kissing our freedon goodbye. And I am not saying freedom to write or modify prograns. I am saying freedom to use and produce culture, read books, using computers as typewritters without the one maker of the one "trusted computing word processor knowing of everything we write.
If you think I am over worried about this, remember that Microsoft media player does send information on what you are watching or hearing to microsoft. Do you think that when a non Palladium computer able to run Linux or other "untrusted" software sells for about 5 times the price of a "mainstrean computer appliance", due to industry mass production prices constraints.
-><- no
What linux needs is a "family distribution".
It should have a light window manager (gnome is too slow on older hardware like P200s that often end up in our parents houses, but still work fine with MS windows), a web browser, mail, easy connection to the internet via dialup/adsl with wizards to set all this up, and an office suite.
Most functions of the OS should be easily accessible by wizards and menus (I don't think mom wants to be using VI to adjust her screens size/ colors/ resolution).
You should be able to put in 1 CD, (and a floppy if necessary), boot it, and have a whole linux install get set up with friendly menu's and then at the end of the install, everything should just work, with the window manager working, nice fonts, all devices (nothing esoteric, ie. modem, printer, sound, basic lan if there is one, the screen/graphics in the right graphics mode and internet browsing/getting connected to the internet/email and office).
So far, though I love linux, it seems to be not there yet (though I don't think we are that far away).
Is there anyone working on a standard linux distribution that is 'install and run' for mom and dad type non technie folks?
Now that would be the killer application that makes Redmond scared. .
What are we waiting for?
While we may have different views on how desirable or cool it would be to have a wide user base, from a hardware compatibility/device driver point of view the issue is unquestionable: more users means better chances for all hardware to work with your PC.
When I changed over to Linux, I had to get a new modem, and I accepted that. However, my Mustek scanner with its stupid ISA non-interrupt SCSI card never started working. For scanning images, I still have a small Win95 partition.
Finally, what do we need to extend the user base? With all respect to all Slackware and Debian users, they too complex. Even Mandrake is perhaps too complex in empowering the user. While we like to choose between five different internet browsers, email programmes or PDF-viewers, your average user will only get confused.
Although I've never tried it, I guess a distro like Redmond Linux (or whatever it's called today) might offer a good choice for the masses - one windowmanager with one set of tools that are stable and compatible. The only thing is, how to get manufacturers to bundle that instead of Windows with their packages.
I rarely recommend Linux to anyone. People into computers, sure, but average people?
;)
Hells no. Why? They don't need fifteen gazillion compilers and the ability to brew coffee on the ISS with a cronjob. They'd rather use Nero than cdrecord. They'd figure out Mozilla, sure enough, and Evolution would be a no brainer, but the minute they can't play Quake Fiftybillion, all hell would break loose.
I must say, maybe I do bash Microsoft. Though, when I point out what's wrong with XP, I don't sit around saying 'OMG MS SUX)RS WTF HAHAHA I R PENGUIN WOOT!'. I point out the privacy and security concerns. I do try not to push my paranoia on anyone else, though.
Hmm.
You know, something I've realized is the people I *know* don't need Linux (Mainly because MS operating systems do more than they need!), seem to keep bugging me about it the most.
I've been saying it for years, and non-trendy people have been saying it even longer. Linux is not, never was, and never will be, about 'beating' Microsoft. Maybe more people need to remember that.
After all, what are we afraid of? That users won't switch?
Screw 'em, we don't need 'em anyway.
Sorry, some people don't read any documentation and demand help, and are quite rude about it.
"Real experts and Gurus" don't want to waste their time with someone who can't even put in the effort to read the documentation, and listen to instructions.
I consider myself somewhat experienced, I help with problems/finding solutions, and interactions that people have.
If the user can't even be bothered to read the HOWTO first, then why should I waste my time helping them?
RTFM combats the perpetual 'how do i rightclick' syndrome. It's more of a defensive measure than meanness. And it's usually invoked against truly stupid or questions with patently obvious answers. (Yes, there actually are such things as stupid questions, and you can in fact occasionally learn things by reading the documentation first)
Otherwise, why bother with documentation at all? That's what it's there for, as an always-available passive help system. Circumventing that system doesn't do the learning party any good.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
You Linux people think you are so wonderful and above it all; I am sick of hearing you people whine. Get over your superiority issues and get a life!
Sorrow hast befallen this cruel world!
Linux r0cks!! M$ is the shits! BS. BS. BS. BS. In linux great DVD playback, easy to set up. BS. BS.
I don't understand where all that hatred towards Linux is coming from. "Zealots" and "elitists" are supposely ruining everything.
I've been using Linux for 3 years now. Yes, I joined at the beginning of the Linxu hype. And I've *never* seen any these so-called "Linux zealots" or "Linux elitists". When I ask an answer on a Linux forum, I *always* get good answers. Never things like "RTFM", but polite messages about where to find documentation.
The only elitsts I have ever encountered are from the *BSD camp (flaming at Linux), but *never* from the Linux camp.
The only exception is the MPlayer developers. When you submit a bugreport or ask a question at mplayer-dev-eng, they will scream RTFM. However, they have a *reason* to do that! They spent lots of hard work into writing lots of documentation, but users simply ignore the documentation as if they don't exist and go asking anyway.
If you spent weeks writing documentation, put it in a place where people can easily access, and people still ask you for things that are clearly documented, wouldn't you get frustrated?
So don't just mod down the people that say RTFM, think about *why* they say that!
And I'm getting tired of this "Linux users are cheap" thing. *Even Linux users are willing to pay for things*! I know lots of Linux users who have paid for Opera, bought their official Linux distro in the store, etc. Linux users are not cheap!
I'm not an expert on scheme, so feel free to expand and rip my comparison, but I know a little and I believe that there is a corrolation. In fact I would like to draw a comparison between Java and Scheme. There are many implementations of Scheme and most use garbage collections, bytecode, and virtual machines... However, Java is popular and Scheme is not. There are several reasons, but two I would focus on are: 1. Organized Advocacy 2. Complexity of Fundamental Language. Java is advocated by Sun Microsystems. They are focused and put a lot of marketing into it, got a lot of industry support. Scheme is ... not really pushed by anyone.
2.The other contrast would be in the language itself. Java has been referred to as C++--, C++ without the C and multiple inheritance. Scheme though it does draw from an ancestor for form, i.e. Lisp, it contains language features which are both extremely powerful, and not easily grasped for entry level programmers, or for that matter self-taught programmers like myself with 5 years of programming in C/C++/Java and Perl. Scheme teaches continuations, tail recursion and hygenic macros. Those features are extremely powerful, and very different from what most programmers (c/c++/Java/Perl/Python) are used to with while loops, function calls, return values, etc. I believe from what I do understand about Scheme that it is a superset of Java/C++/C not a lesser language. It is more fundamental. Continuations, tail recursion, and hygenic macros can be used to build Object functionality, interface definitions, template behavior, multiple inheritance. The reverse is not true, C cannot be used (easily) to implement tail recursion, continuations, and hygenic macros. If I'm not mistaken, Scheme, which intends to be a useful implementation of Lambda Calculus, brings programs (as data) to the Mathematics realm, to be manipulated and calculated :)
So take these to Linux vs. Windows:
1. We should probably have a focused advocacy.
A non-profit organization could be useful here. IBM is advertising, but their base interest is IBM's viability not Linux's long term health. Neither are the other business (for-profit) organizations. How about a Super "LUG".
2. We've made vast strides in usability and in support services. But we absolutely must continue to pay attention to criticism about the product we deliver.
If microsoft found they were losing somehow, would they put out a linux distribution? Any mom and pop can put out a linux distribution, why not microsoft.
Moderators: WARNING This post may seem inflamatory or trollish. If it seems that way, you probably didn't understand it.
Hemos: I really wish you'd refrain from telling us how you feel about the article on the front page. If you have something to say, why not post a comment?
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
Games are harder to copy... We had WinXP Pro before it was even out.
Even though MS has all of this new registration crap for XP, it's still as easy as ever to rip it off.
I'm a Linux newbie, but I know I would have left Windows a long time ago if I had to pay for it.
Just my $.02
?Who controls the past now, controls the future.
Who controls the present now controls the past.?
Microsoft:
Better business alignment with straightforward licensing and clarity of intellectual property ownership.
-- so... their fucking me and I'm supposed to be happy b/c I can read it?
what about various *nix's "copy all you want, give it to all your friends" style licence?
I doubt it would be necessary if Microsoft were not still bombarding us with dastardly deeds. Slashdot and other Linux sites are in a peculiarly good position to notice Microsoft's dirty tricks, seeing as Linux has been since 1998 a chief target of said tricks. (October 1998, as you may recall, was the date of the leaking of the first Halloween Document, an internal Microsoft report which called for the company to "deny [open-source software] entry into the market" rather than out-competing it within the market.)
Perhaps you find it boring that Microsoft critics are saying the same things today as in 1998 and before -- that Microsoft destroys free markets, perjures itself before courts and Congress, harms democracy and fair & free trade, curtails user freedoms, and so forth. Sadly, it's still true, and I suspect that people will keep saying it as long as it is.
Whoops. Meant Civ II: Call to Power.
Haven't played Civ III yet.
So I'm writing an application that works on all open source software. I'm being paid to do this and the people involved expect (rightfully) to be making money on all of this. I'm not feeling particularly screwed....
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Another method: I ride the commmuter rail, usually hacking away on my tiny Picturebook. Two or three times a week, a fellow commuter will remark "Oh, it's a real computer?" I say "Yes, it came with Windows, but now I run Linux on it and it works much better." If they show interest, I give them a set of CDRoms and suggest they install it on a spare machine to "give it a try". "Yes, it's free software. You don't need to pay for it; it's not pirate ware."
:)
Then, when I get home, I burn another set. I've gone through maybe four or five sets of RH7.3 this way... it's worth it. Heck, at least two MSCE's have been Evangelized this way.
-The Boston Penguin.
i think bill the gates going down to peru indicates that linux, 'free software' is very threatening.
Gates didn't go to Peru, the Peruvian president came to him. Their only meeting has been at Microsoft's HQ. Pretty telling, don't you think?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I could've written this article after some of my first experiences with RedHat 5.2. The biggest reason that I'm hesitant to help new people get started with Linux is that you never know what kind of community support they're going to get. You can't just tell people to use the resources available on the Internet to help them out...because there's probably an 80% chance that they'll get flamed for asking any question of remote relevance.
We, the Linux community, need to grow up...in more ways than one. I also totally agree with putting your money where your mouth is. If you support Linux, pay for it every once in a while.
"Herbivores eat well cause their food never, ever runs."
First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.
3 out of 4 so far...
DWR is Ajax for Java
You've been warned.
If you look at the Linux demographic, we're not really a cheap bunch. We generally have disposable income, and generally are well-educated. But the reason we come across as a bunch of cheapskates is that we don't spend our money on Linux software. The hundreds of dollars I didn't spend on Windows 2000 server, Office 2000/XP, Photoshop, MS Exchange, and so on all went towards my car, a car stereo mp3 player, my home receiver, my Playstation2, my DVD player, some Shure 57 microphones, rent on a better apartment, and good beer. Not to mention the computer hardware... And I still had enough money left over to download a half dozen ISOs and install on my souped-up computer.
Linux users still spend money, but usually it's on other stuff - stuff they wouldn't buy if they had to drop $100 every time Microsoft released a new version of its OS (and much more if you want to run a server). I'm not saying we shouldn't occasionally donate $50 to SuSE or whoever and get a shiny box with prettier discs (unless you're a big fan of Sharpie Art). But more industries benefit from Linux users than the software industry.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
This is not the end.
It is not even the beginning of the end.
But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning
DWR is Ajax for Java
Sure. I'd like to contribute to linux by answering newbie questions (even though 90% of these can be found by a google search or the first 5 lines of the man page)
I answer the questions, and then I tell where I found the answer (e.g. For a more detailed answer, look in DJGPP FAQ, section 8, page foo). From my experience in comp.os.msdos.djgpp, this gets the user on the road to reading more of the product's available documentation.
Would there be a way for non-coders to make a contribution to GNU software?
Write documentation. Write bug reports, but make sure to include precise reproduction instructions. Look at the Mozilla.org help pages; the ideas on those pages apply to most free software projects.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Read:
Red Hat 7.x with the Ximian GNOME Desktop.
Ximian is working on a control panel like application, and although it loses a bit of the power from the original Gnome Config, it's quite similar to Windows and easy to use.
In my experience, a RH 7.1 install w/Ximian GNOME involves very few steps. I found it to be less painful than a Windows (to be fair, 98) install.
It's not exactly where you and I would like it *yet*, but it's damn slick, and very close, at least IMO.
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
Having a case of "Microsoft" sounds like street talk for brain cancer or something. I am sure there is a medical term for it. Some members of my own family suffer from it as well. And, it seriously corrupts there thinking on several levels.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
The user base (as in desktops) is a real issue. Look at the percentages (1% of the desktops?) A buddy, when asked if he wanted to try Linux just pointed out a valid problems for widespread adoption: there is a lack of shrink wrapped applications joe six-pack can buy at Fry's or Staples for Linux. There is a lack of commercial software for Linux right now.
On the servers, that's another story. I guess installed base is running around 25% to 35% in the glass rooms around the world. IDC expects Linux to overtake Windows servers market share by 2006.
I have used the best tool for the job at hand and try to be fair and un-biased when recommending anything to clients. Don't be a zelot. Use common sense when recommending a paticular OS for a job.
Some people's tactics may be a bit over the top. Relax. I say just Burn Your EULA. Boycott M$.
Another poster said it very well here:
Por qué Utilice Linux? Linux es libertad. Linux is FREEDOM!
The Revolution will not be televised.I may be bad with names, but I'll never forget your IP address
I don't know if I'm missing something in your argument, but Linux doesn't need MS Office.
OpenOffice
AbiWord, gnucash, gnumeric
koffice
There are a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head and am too lazy to look up.
I'm a college student -- I haven't used office except in the comp. labs in a long time. And even when I generate MS Word documents on Word, I read them and print them and save them to be read in Word again fine.
You have an interesting point and analysis regarding Microsoft's incursion into the Linux Office market, but as I see it, if they keep Office on the Windows OS, it doesn't hurt us any.
Please point out any flaws in my argument. =)
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
others are okay with a Pinto or a Matador
/. know how what an old foagie you are with *that* comparison.
Sheesh, Jeff you are really letting
Yes of course,
The easiest way is for programmers to "Donate" their "work of art" to nonprofit organizations like the Free Software Foundation - which should issue a tax deductable receipt for the "replacement cost" of the "artwork."
This deduction would provide monetary support to programmers who work part-time on improving Linux etc . . .
As a non-coder - all you have to do to support GNU is pay some taxes.
AIK
If you're recommending the use of [GNU/]Linux to decision-makers, then you should use real data as part of your rationale. Take a look at my (long!) article, Why Open Source Software / Free Software (OSS/FS)? Look at the Numbers! , which has a collection of useful facts and figures (including market share, reliability studies, etc.).
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
Ask Microsoft what they have spent on R&D, Marketing and legal fees in order to force IE upon all consumers.
Go ahead. Ask them.
You can also ask them what they told stockholders about the money allocated to cover for those expenses. Hint: Microsoft publicly claims that 20% of all OS revenue is allocated to "unearned revenue" which Microsoft says includes IE. And, that was before they stopped free phone support. Let me see now. What is 20% of all of the OS revenue (including servers I presume)?
Yea. That is zero alright. IE must be free after all since no revenue is attributed to its sale by Microsoft.
You know, sometimes when people lie they tell other people a different story.
It is sort of like CNet explaining to the public why they censor some opinions. They may tell one person one story but tell another person a completely contradictory story proving that one or the other must be false. So which is it, CNET?
Was censorship imposed because the opinions were highly regarded by CNet Community Manager? Or, was censorship imposed because some unidentified readers asked for the censorship? Or, was it because some views contrary to Microsoft's interests have caused a drop in readership or the use of Talkback?
Which one is it? Do any of them justify defrauding the reader by engaging in secret censorship?
Or, to tie it back to IE... is IE so good that Microsoft has to lie to the public about the price being charged?
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
You're here, so I'd say you already have.
Virg
How much should we focus on Linux, as compared to the broader front of *nix? Solaris is converging with Linux; and OSX is, as a *nix, a lot closer to Linux than OS9 was. Is there anything wrong with a world in which *nix beats Microsoft on the OS front, and we end up with a market that's 40% OSX, 30% Linux, 15% Solaris, 5% *BSD and a 10% Windows remnant? Sun's coming around to understanding the game this way. How do we get Apple to join in?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
If this guy in the article doesn't sound like a preacher. "spread the word, my flock. go forth and tell the good news" jeez. that'll scare me away, and i USE *nix.
Really, it is what is useful for the job I am doing. I could really care less, as I will be damned if I am going to give Micro$oft $200.00 for an OS. Which ever one works, I don't really care. For my firewall, I use Linux. For my webserver and fileserver, I use Linux. For my children and girlfriend, Windows. Why? My girlfriend happens to like it.
Hypothetically, if Micro$oft got kicked off the OS market, who is to say that someone worse will not take their place. Maybe one of our favorite Linux distributors? How would you feel if RedHat was the next up and coming Micro$oft? In this field, anything is possible.
DISCLAIMER:
I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.
And here's a good follow-up question: If some day MSFT did release "Microsoft Office 20xx for GNU/Linux," would we install it? Would you want some closed source program that must be installed as root from MSFT doing who-knows-what to your opensource-haven computer? I don't think so.
Still, it would be a big hit with corporations who save millions by not buying windows but still having MSFT Office on Linux for their workstations.
The watershed moment for linux will occur when development becomes self-sustaining without compromising the integrity of Open Source.
In the US, this could readily be accomplished by setting up recipient non-profit organization for the purpose of handling OS code donations by individual programmers.
Take SourceForge, add a non-profit organization using SourceForge for infrastructure. Every Open Source contribution/bug fix made to SourceForge is valuated by experts (modded) and a receipt generated listing the "replacement value of donated works of art".
Now every hour a programmer works on Linux is tax deductable - which is pretty good pay for a gainfully employed programmer. You can't work full time - but you could work as long as one year at Open Source - funded on donations alone (Last half of one year and first half of the next - then go back to a real job for the rest of the year tax free. The taxes you save pay for the first half of the year.
This creates an endless fund for Open Source without asking for donations (Except donations of the code itself).
AIK
> If you're not sure what you can do to help, ASK!
Ask whom? If I'm in a position not to know what to do to help, I'm likely also in the position not to know who to go to to offer. Can you provide links (or even some Google search phrases or something) to get us all started? I personally know how to find these resources, but I've met a number of people with some valuable skills to contribute (graphic work and copyediting, to name two) who aren't as adept at it.
Virg
He missed a very important point:
5: Don't be an elitest dickhead!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
True, but there are a lot of them. And there's plenty of Linux news too. Software updates mainly, but also interesting and useful discussion on what can be made better.
The idea that Microsoft is paranoid and fearing Linux might be true, but is totally overblown. Microsoft fears any competition, the most likely competitor is Apple more than Linux.
Hardly. I don't see Microsoft claiming Apple is *the* threat to them. At the moment, they're getting their asses kicked in the server arena mainly, rather than the desktop, that's what worries them for now.
Oh, and for the record, Linux already has higher market share than MacOS X, which is probably why they want Apple to speed up deployment of it (no, really, this isn't a troll)
Max the penguin,
it's popular today,
it stands against Bill
in a most unusual way.
My server is purring,
like a tamed wild beast,
my desktop is owned
by a number at least.
The natives are restless
in 'expression land'
comfort and freedom still
have thier demands.
FAt cAt, fAT CAt haVe You anY time,
The World is sTaRving and I Am NoT
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
As long time Linux user and big Linux supporter, I find the suggestion that we buy Linux products a bit ironic. The Linux name is very, very closely associated with the idea of free software. (Free in both senses of the word.) So all of a sudden people are supposed to buy the product in order to support the fact that it is free software? No matter how hard it flaps its wings, I'm not sure that particular goose will ever get off the ground. I'm pro Linux, and I'm not against paying money for software, but the combination of the two has a certain inherent contradiction which I believe worthy of contemplation.
I think not ... possible that she saw the IBM commercials that were playing shortly ago, one of them ended with a player "LINUX" Slam-Dunking the ball!!
Chicks don't pay to close attention to the games but the names will sometimes stick.
> Most Linux distributions are far more feature-rich than Windows, that much I will agree on, but you would have to be -incredibly- naive, or incredibly biased, to state that your standard Linux distribution is easier to install, maintain and use than, say, Windows XP.
I'm not so sure that this isn't a case of familiarity versus true ease-of-use. To give you an example, if your car had controls like an airplane (with the obvious exclusion of controls for pitch), would your car be harder to use? You bet it would. Is that because aircraft controls are intrinsically harder to handle than automobile controls? Not really. Once you've practiced with them, they're actually pretty easy to use.
By the same token, I think that a large portion of ease-of-use for MS OSes (and computers in general) is that the general public is so used to them, John Q. Public perceives the Windows interface as the "standard" against which to measure everything else. To go point by point, installing WinXP is not an easy task. It's a LOT better than it was in Win95 or WinNT, but it still isn't something that John Q. is going to want to try to do. Maintaining is the same story. Most of the people I know who aren't computer-based (hobbyists or those who work with (not just on) computers daily) do very little to maintain their machines. It's easy to say that this is because they don't need to, but that's not really true. Every time I visit a neighbor's house and do something on their computer, I find that there's a lot of cruft and such on the machine that interferes with how it runs. It's just so subtle as it happens that they don't really notice the loss of performance until I get in and clean up (note that this is true of all computers, Macs, WinPCs and LinPCs alike). As for using them, see my note above about familiarity. It's an ugly reality that since Windows is the ruler, everything Linux gets measured against it, but that doesn't make it a given that Linux really is harder to use. For those who grew up around UNIX systems, Linux is a breeze and Windows is a pain.
Virg
I have had so much frustration with linux that even thinking about it makes me scream. I am at the point where I want to rip the lungs out of the nearest linux advocate. I am writing this to you with a genuine 1992 vintage 486 running windows 3.11 that is connected, through a 10_T lan to a linux machine which has been kludged into being a masqurading gateway to a dialup connection.
It took 1 minute to get the lan card working on the 486.
It took 3 grueling days to get the linux machine to the same state.
Am I moderated as a troll yet? GOOD!! I'm proud of it. I don't think it is appropriate for me to say "Even though I am really a devout open-source advocate I still have these problems..." Instead I think the best way to communicate what I have to say is to say it streight up and with no ego-cushoning. This software does not meet my needs. My experience with the linux installation on my Athlon is that when I manage to fix one thing, ten other things break and there is no way to fix it...
I start playing "penguins" a lemmings clone... And I discover that certain actions in the game reliably cause the program to crash. -- And _ALL_ linux software is like this to one extent or another.
There is a package on my system called 'AAA' I have no idea what it does other tahn claiming to be critically important and requiring me to install vim!!!! I find that intolerable as I absolutly and loudly refuse to operate a linux machine that has vim on it. -- yet this required package requires that I have vim on the machine!!!!! Hundreds of thousands of things like this are driving me crazy!!! I think I am going to have to install win XP Pro on the box just to protect my sanity. =(
Vim is the ultimate example of the hypocracy of linux. People tell me that it is a text editor. I have never been able to make it prerform this function, at least without first driving me to the most profound feeling of frustration I've ever experienced. The lesson from this is that the biggest bug in linux is that it is so poorly designed that the user is unable to use it -- making the software just as useless as if it had some other bug in it.. It doesn't matter that netscape on windows 3.11 crashes ten times a day >>>I can use it to browse the web!
I could go on for days but I'll stop here... I beg that you take my horrible experiences into account.
ps: If you think that I should quit complaining about vi an use pico know this: PICO IS ONE OF THE THINGS BROKEN ON MY ATHLON -- IT DOES NOT LOAD!!!!
I use windows 3.11 because linux sucks too much.
Make sure it does what you say it does. Make sure your implementation timeframe is realistic. Make sure that all your exagerated claims don't come back to haunt you. Your little project might be someone else's first introduction to Linux, don't make it look like Linux is tough, or amatuerish. Don't send me builds with the Bill Gates with a pie to the face as the sample video. Sure, it might be funny for you but for the people that I've got to demo this long awaited build (cause it is late), Bill Gates is respected for the wealth he's accumulated. You need to act professional, act as if Linux doesn't need the anti MS rhetoric to succeed in the business world, on the destop, in the wiring closet and a hundred other places.
Perfect! Because you have two choices they must be equal, right? It would be "biased" to express a preference for one based on previous experience, reading licenses, and common senese? Poop.
That's the one thing that Jamie Harrison did not mention in his article. I would not recomend XP or any of the newer M$ offerings to anyone and neither would any honest and informed person. Being able to see this does not make me an "RMS wannabe" nor will it make my business fail, unless of course my business is M$ dependent. It is not, I am not and no one I know is.
Business users must object to the unilateral change clauses, complete lack of control over their computers, licensed inforced "right" of M$ to review all information on any XP system, and to the outrageous total cost of ownership of M$ systems. My experience with w2k here at work has been bad enough for me to not ever recomend it.
Home users must object to the same total lack of control and privacy as well as the increasing instability and decreasing perfomance of M$ systems. If we look at the last two years or so of dismal computer sales, it looks like I'm not alone in my dissapointment. It is there that Linux, BSD, Mac and others are stepping, not just the server room. A much larger percentage than 10 of the web groups my wife belongs too are Linux users. Normal stuff, stay at home mom stuff, not technical pages or groups are filling with linux users.
The sad fact is that we should anticipate a fall off of linux users. M$ has made computing so bad that many people are simply giving up. Instead of buying their third or fourth new fancy coputer, they are just leaving the old one broken and putting their time and resources elsewhere. This is the bite of the "dot com bomb". Bitterly disapointed people are shouting at the world, "All that shit I did not like I do not need." Those people will not move to Linux and might not ever have needed a computer to begin with. They will do without email at home and buy a set top box to watch digital TV. As the overall pool of computer users shrinks, the percentage of Linux may rise but the numbers will grow slowly if at all. M$ will continue to trumpet "Linux is Dead", or at least their dependents in PC world etc will. Advocacy will help, but I'm prepared for a complete lack of interest in all things computer for years to come.
My form of advocacy is simple. I carry a laptop with Debian on it and use it when I actually need a computer. It's an ancient P150 thinkpad with 16M of ram and a 6GB hard disk. I doubt it would even run XP, but it does what I want flawlessly and looks great. People ask and I'm happy to show and offer a free install for them. Next I need to get a bumper sticker or two.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
You may be a lot closer than you realize to being able to help the elite coders of the GNU world. Send a few bucks, you can get started here.
Donating a little money to the Free Software Foundation is like handing fresh ammunition and rations to the experienced soldiers already pushing back the enemy, while you sharpen your own skills for the day you can take your place on the frontline. This will help until the day when all universities and research centers GPL code they produce; at that point there will be more money for GNU software than anyone will know what to do with (reflect for a moment on how much tuition costs...academia is awash in cash, not even counting federal grants, etc.)
Kinda glad i read this post now. I am also interested in building a wooden case with watercooling for the cpu and other internals. I hope you post your process/results somewhere so we can see them. I hope to work with a couple local woodworkers for the case and I'll roll my own water cooling setup.
Geez, what is it with people and complicating simple tasks with regex? How about:
/bin/?? /usr/bin/??
/bin/?? /usr/bin/??
/bin/l? /usr/bin/l?
ls
Which is roughly the equivalent of doing:
echo
if your shell has a built-in echo and you want to avoid forking of another process. That seems a lot more intuitive of a way to look for a command with two mystery characters. Or just one mystery character:
ls
etc...
-- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
My point was that the only way they could get money from Linux users was to make a version of Office available. Most Linux users don't NEED office. Not with so many decent, albeit somewhat unpolished work-alike packages available.
That being said, I also find it unlikely that it will happen anytime soon. Some corporations may find it attractive to purchase MS Office if they wanted a higher degree of compatibility with already fielded windows-based systems. It would certainly be a way for MS to gain a degree of credibility/respectability (even though many, if not most, Linux users will recoil in disgust if it were suggested they install Office on their boxes).
As Open Office and StarOffice become better known, they will make it less profitable for Microsoft to enter that market.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
yes on the desktop so far linux is not a threat...yet.
MS is more worried on the server side since that is where they can still grow. But linux is threatenig from the low end as well as the high end(mainframe linux).
Even if linux is cutting into more high end unixes than they are windows, that is one less high end system that windows gets.
It's so depressing to watch the antics of those unwilling to do anything to advance Linux, yet more than willing to flame those that are.
An unending litany of:
- Linux won't be worthy of my support until...
- Linux should be "our little secret"
- Linux offended me in 1998, so I'm going to hate it forever
- People advocated Amiga and failed, so therefore, Linux advocacy will fail
- Linux will surely be destroyed if we start telling people about it
- Microsoft rules the world! Resistance is futile!
- Advocacy is great as long as I don't have to do anything, and what's more, you shouldn't do anything either
- Anyone who promotes anything is evil
Sheesh! Either get on the advocacy train or get off the train, but for God's sake, STOP WHINING ALREADY!
This WAS the response of a leading Linux journalist/activist
From: Joe Barr [joe@pjprimer.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:02 AM
To: sales@mindcraft.com
Subject: Industry Scum
Hey, Mindcraft
I am writing an article about asslicking whores in the industry.
You know the sort, they bend over for folks like Bill Gates by
producing totally false "benchmarks" based on liess, mistests,
biased hardware and software, and scores of other unethical,
deceiptful, dishonest, duplicitous means.
Like your reviews of NT vs Novell and Linux. Classic cases of
professional prostitution.
Cock sucking the geeks in Redmond.
The question for you maggots, whores, whatever you prefer to be
called, is: how much does it cost to buy one of your benchmarks?
tHANKS,
Joe Barr The Dweebspeak Primer
Don't kid yourselves. Linux deserves to die for settting back the state of computing by 10 years re-inventing nothing new but re-implementing what's already in BSD.
Wow, that's a good point. The users in my company only see the standard office apps plus our custom apps. We know what to expect as output, so I hadn't thought about the little things that might pop up like documentation or stuff sys admins might come across.
That's something for distro makers to think about. Maybe they should take a hard look at things like that to keep it looking professional.
Developers: We can use your help.
"Microsoft Office 20xx for GNU/Linux," would we install it?
Five years ago I used WordWorth on my Amiga for wordprocessing, I occasionally used Office on somebody elses computer. At that time I liked Office, but I very much disliked DOS/Windows on which it ran. At that time I still had some respect left for the company, and had Office been available for AmigaOS I'd have used it.
Since then Microsoft has lost all my respect, it is unlikely that I would be the first user of Microsoft Office for Linux, but I believe many others would use it. If the combination of some opensource OS and Microsoft Office become very popular I might reconsider my position.
Now let's assume Microsoft some day is no longer any threat on the OS market, but still is the major player on the Office application market, and that I find I might actually benefit from using Microsoft Office. What would I do?
During the last five years with UNIX/Linux systems, I have learned something about security, so I know I shouldn't trust this closed source product too much. I wouldn't want to run any of their closed source code as root, but installing the product and running it as an unprivileged user does not introduce the same risks. I know the risks still there, and I can handle them.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
If Dell on their own account wanted to drop linux, then it would be absolutely stupid for a Chairman of the Board to make the sales call.
And, in fact it was stupid for Gates and Ballmer to stick their ugly heads into the DELL deal.
Period.
If it was not necessary as some ignorant people would like to think, then it was stupid for them to get involved.
If it was necesssary (according to them), then it was stupid for them to get involved.
Suggesting a false reality where the goons with the bats went out unnecessarily is a bit silly.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Reminds me of my OS/2 days
It has become impossible for me to separate the Microsoft product line from company and its illegal monopolistic behavior and its FUD.
It really is no longer just about 'The right tool for the job.' It's equally about being lock in, ripped off, and manipulated.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Remember the IBM ads, with Linux as a basketball player? I'm sorry, who's the idiot?
I've read a number of posts that seem to suggest, as yours does that if Linux supplants Windows, it will somehow be tainted. It will not. It will still be Linux. It will just be very popular.
:-)
If we keep the quality high people will like it more and more. It's the operating system from the people, for the people and by the people.... Hmmm where have I heard that before?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
To a new user, that HOWTO is in a foreign tongue, which he will NOT understand until a human translates it for him. The best way to help him is to go thru the HOWTO with him, making sure he understands what he's reading. Then he'll not only start to learn the language (and maybe have some success on his own next time he has to consult a HOWTO), he'll think linux dudes are the greatest guys on earth, instead of a bunch of elitist assholes.
Or did you just magically grok linuxese the first time you heard it spoken??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
You swine.
Put US$65.00 annually into KRUD: Kevin's Redhat Uber Distribution
Updated monthly, sent out on CD.
If you can put up with Red Hat's approach to a Linux disto, this may be for you.
Current version: KRUD 7.3 2002-07-01 which is base upon Red Hat 7.3, strangely enough.
"Highly Recommended(tm)"
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
i'm lost in the throng. oh well.
here are my suggestions:
1) lose the penguin. there is absolutley nothing sexy about a penguin. penguins don't bring images of profits or 3d games or a "satisfying computer experience" (whatever the hell that is). penguins bring to mind...nothing. lose the mascot. mascots are for high-school athletics.
2) lose the spotty geek image. show grandma and her dog in one of those cliche overhead-shot-with-a-fish-eye-lens photos you see on every ultra-hip, ultra-cool, consumer-friendly ISP website. have grandma quoted as saying, "buster and i can surf the interweb with ease, and i don't have to worry about viruses!" Who cares if it's a lie or not, that never stopped a marketing exec.
3) quit bashing MS. it's tiresome. MS is not out to snuff linux. MS is out ot snuff *everything*, not just you/us/them. some of the users out there think MS is great. some people hate MS and still think linux is a crock of shit. the constant MS feud (with only the linux zealots playing, and the 800 lb bully snickering in the corner), is old. very few potential users want to be embroiled in a this vs. that computing holy war, or even see it. they already have mac vs. pc, and for some, that's enough.
4) market, don't advocate. advocacy is for long-hairs and socialists, and socialists are commies, and commies are unamerican. that's why despite MS being cut-throat bastards, they prosper. it's the american way. market, don't preach. marketing involves convincing a bunch of fools to be hungry when they are not, thirsty when they are satiated, and wanting when they already have. *tell* them they want linux, don't try to explain it to them. have you ever seen a coke commercial describe the benefits of drinking coca-cola? nope, just tits.
5) offer absurdly easy certifications. the more monkeys with papers that say, "i graduated from compu-college with a certificate in linux", the more places will hear about linux, the more monkeys will use it, the more monkeys will go out and pay for a cert. "i'm an LCE, Linux Certified Enduser". Hooray.
6) Dont bitch about United Linux, or Lindows, or any coporate form of linux. you want linux on the desktop, it takes a corporation to do it. and then prepare for the most popular version of linux to be an utter peice of shit, wiht utter fuckheads for users. if you want to masses , be prepared to cater to the lowest common denominator. Movies, music, food, clothes, computers. godzilla, btitney (oops, i mean britney), McDonalds, GAP, Windows.
So you're saying if there was a M$Office that ran seamlessly on linux, M$ would "support" linux for selling more copies of Office for them, just as they "support" Apple?
Maybe, if this were all there was to it.
But the truly big bucks are in server and enterprise sales and licensing, and every server that runs linux is seen as money being taken out of M$'s pocket. I don't think M$ gives a damn about, or even notices that linux *users* exist; it's those pesky linux servers they want to replace.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I tried using space-dot combinations in that last post instead of 's, but it didnt' come out looking very good at all. .. why did it stop? Is this just a bug, or was it deliberately disabled? If the latter, how are users supposed to format their messages?
Slashdot used to support
I agree with the article, and just last week worked on a new site to, uh, "encourage" people to switch away from Windows, whether it be to Linux or MacOS X. It has a FAQ, link list, articles, and a directory of consultants who can help with the transition -- all of which could use additions. ;)
Check it out!
IHMO one of the main reasons for Windows being most common is not just OEM (ie pre installed). But Schools, a _lot_ of PCs that are bought for the home are for the kids to do shcool work on, and so the OS the family choose is almost always the same a schools.
also the OS you grow up on tends to be the one you'll take with you into life.
I know some point you'll use what ever OS they use at your work place, but remeber that it was some one at your work place who choose what OS to use, and they unduobtedly choose the OS best known to them.
You want to advocate to the right people? Then you're correct, it's not the 0.24% of users who run linux on the desktop (per various webserver stats posted HERE by *NIX sysadmin types) who you should be advocating to. (See also my other post today, re impact of desktops vs servers in the real market.)
You should be advocating to the enterprise level business with the linux server that runs their commerce site, even tho company president hasn't a clue what runs it. He needs to know how much money and downtime that linux server is saving him, or better yet, how much money it is MAKING the company just by being reliable. He needs to know that political machinations (frex, Palladium) will REDUCE PROFITS because they'll negatively impact the company's ability to expand its commerce site (the one that's running on a linux server, remember?)
Once you get the attention of the suit who has the clout to dictate what OS the company uses on its server, then you've got the attention of someone who matters in the business world; someone who probably makes political contributions and may even have his own lobbyist in Congress.
Grassroots won't cut it here. If it could, 10 years of linux would already have accomplished everything the "advocacy" push hopes to achieve. You've got to get the attention of movers and shakers in the business world, who when it comes down to it have the REAL say in what products live or die.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Nanny nanny boo boo you can't catch me!
Linux improved nicely and did quite well from 1994 to 1997 -- and that was before big business was throwing coins at it. So what if big business goes away?
Let's face it, what's at stake here is an entire industry founded on Linux. NOT LINUX ITSELF. The only way Linux itself can be hurt is if people take away the kernel hackers' right to write code. If MS manages to bully the desktop Linux market out of existence, so be it.
So many people I've talked to take offense when I say Linux isn't ready for the desktop. I don't see where these people are coming from. It's all about choice -- it's not David and Goliath. It's more like Goliath and the grass that grows beneath his feet.
If Linux has to grow more slowly, fine, I'll keep using it on all my old hardware (which forms my networking infrastructure). Linus Torvalds has a history of putting what's *right* into the kernel and not what's *popular*. These two reasons are just among the many reasons why Microsoft will never obliterate Linux _as a piece of code_.
They do?
I do not recall seeing MS(tm) or MS(r) anyplace. But, they could get a trademark for MS and just not use it much or at all.
I guess that would make Ms Pacman a Microsoft product? Just thought I would ask.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Ever see those ads on UPN and Fox and such for video introductions to desktop computers? Users pop in a CD and it autoplays an introduction to the mouse, word processing, basic configuration. (Those video introductions cost money and are windows-only, of course.)
Get a cheap camera and make a series of video lectures for as much free software as you can. Start off with the absolute basics (this is a mouse, this is a monitor). This will make Linux an easier-to-start-with platform than windows (unless you pay for a windows class.) Move up to more complex things. GPL (or whatever) the videos and distribute them. If and when this catches on, developers will start habitually including these video lectures as an introductory overview of their software's documentation. Linux will gain desktop share. Users will get nice hand-holding. Manna will rain.
"Whatever happened to fair use?"
-- Duff-Man
I just want to say "me too" on the whole Amiga thing. I still have my Amiga, and it's still amazing how good the thing is (even a 14MHz EC020).
I think this is similar to what we Amiga users went through while C= still existed...but that's the point, now isn't it. It's similar, not identical.
See, I have already come to grips with the fact that every single vendor around today (Redhat, SUSE, etc) might go under, but the OS will continue. It's doubtful that the major distros won't at least have a "compatible" distro if they do "go under".
But, this is the difference...yes, it's always fun to argue about Linux vs. M$ with ppl that seem to have no clue, but it's doubtful that it will ever lead to as "dark" an end as the Classic Amiga.
This thread is a good example of why the Linux "community" misses the point altogether. Linux, by and large, is promoted and operated by geeks who use the dollar sign for Micro$oft and the $ sign for a command prompt and roll their eyes anytime someone dares to question their superior understanding of reality. Linux is an elitist OS that will be forever stuck in server farms until someone understands that until the consumer can actually USE Open Office as easily as Microsoft Word Linux will never make it in the consumer market, period. You call Microsoft bug ridden yet you want me to switch to something that can't even render tables correctly. You must be kidding. ROTFLMAO. I cannot base my business on such poorly written code.
/etc and pico aliases it ain't never gonna make it.
/
Microsoft got rid of C:\ for good reason. If Linux can get rid of the $ so that you NEVER EVER SEE IT, then maybe it has a chance, but as long as you need to cd
cd
rm -r *
and many at Microsoft actually used it. If they had just promoted it and developed it, we might all be using a *nix right now. -A
Just get it easier to use and configure and maybe it will start to do better. Nothing like doing a Red Hat 7.3 install only to have something fail on the X Server software. There ought to be an easy way to recover from that. Once Linux gets it, then it might start selling more copies.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
like IBM for example, sure they support Linux but how many of their "Lotus" applications did they port to Linux? Big money setting up servers for businesses, but apparently not selling them the software that runs on Windows only platforms, but has been ported to Linux?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
I have had several conversation where the problem is that the corporate world needs^H^H^H^H^H wants someone to sue in case of a problem. This CYA philosophy is endemic here and is often stated as the last reason not to adopt Linux.
Seems to me if there is someone out there who wants to make some big bucks, that there is an opportunity to sell insurance. I heard where a large US corporation in the US who's name starts with an X was real reluctant to use some open source software for this very reason.
Anyway - is RedHat listening?
I'm not all that fond of Windows. It's gotten too bulky and impossible to understand, both from a user's and programmer's perspective. Linux, to me, is more of the same. It's simpler, yes, but this reminds me of a good quote from Larry O'Brien:
"Claiming Java is easier than C++ is like saying that K2 is shorter than Everest."
I write video games for a living. I know a lot of people don't want to believe it, but writing code to display windows and such is trivial. It really is. You could spent a month trying to figure out how to do things with Gtk or the Windows API or some other toolkit, or you could write code to do all of the same stuff *without* an underlying library in 25% of the time. But so-called modern operating systems rely on people thinking all that stuff is really hard to do and that we need giant APIs to dealt with it.
What I really want is something lean and mean, something like a 1GHz palmtop with lean hooks to a 3D card. It's pretty appalling when you realize that a *driver* for a modern video card is so large that you couldn't even fit it in a 32MB game console. And then you see Grand Theft Auto 3 running on such a console...
I know, I know, this isn't going to go over well. What I really want, so to speak, is a modern Commodore 64 or Atari 800. Something that isn't just layers of complexity upon layers of complexity. This is within reach.
What I don't want is to be part of some angst-ridden geek club, fighting over which bloated OS is better than another.
Things would be so much better if people's attitudes reverted to those of the early days of Free software, where people wrote something to "scratch an itch" they had, rather than some kind of silly goal of copying the market leader's features. Let's wake up to the facts, people. Open source doesn't need to aggressively recruit more users because their developers don't have profits that rely on a userbase. It's all being given away for free, right?
Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
...Slashdot, as well as the other Linux sites are constantly bombarding us with news of Microsoft's dastardly deeds.
Well, if the jackboot fits...
and you get the feeling there's less Linux advocacy and more and more Microsoft bashing,
Haven't you seen the latest Mac comercials...MS bashing and yourOSAdvocacy are one and the same...and I couldn't agree more considering how massive MS desktop market share is...
I've volunteered for my local UUG for some years, and work at a *large* employer that predictably went all-Microsoft (except on big servers) and would distill my advice down to this:
1) Advocate Linux servers at work, stressing, when challenged, that, if nothing else, their mere presence will have a good effect on the cost of the MS contract. In the old days, they spoke of the "million dollar Amdahl mug". That is, drinking from it while negotiating your IBM mainframe contract let the IBM guys know you were shopping around for clone mainframes, that you weren't locked in. Hopefully, we can speak of the "million dollar Tux doll" some day...
2) Push Linux desktops in places where every cent counts: friends, family, non-profits you volunteer at, your church, and your school. (Oh, Lord, just give us the schools and you can keep your Fortune 500.) And you can best do this (or, really, ONLY do this) by *volunteering* to install and admin the machines yourself.
That last one takes commitment, but that's what the man's asking for.
Pushing the Linux desktop at work is wasted effort; but if we can build some exposure and mindshare in the non-business world, it's a foot in the door. The guy who wrote about "word of mouth" was dead on. Every single Linux desktop that you get into play will cause 10 people to see it and hear about it.
Like so many others that have gone before you, you have your linking the wrong way around. You are linking GPL code onto the non-GPL code, which is perfectly allowable.
You cannot link non-GPL code onto GPL code, though.
If what you try to assert was correct, then not a single application on Windows could be under the GPL! After all, even if you use C, you have to link to C Library. At some point, some of it has tolink to the kernel or system libraries.
You loose. Now go read the GPL 100 times.
I accept your text from the manual as being accurate.
However, computer games and computer software may or may not be in different industries. The true test is whether the consumer would be confused. (That is why Apple Records and Apple Computer do not present a problem.) To be honest I doubt anyone thinks Ms Pacman is put out by Microsoft but they are a software and game company and that fits within the products that Microsoft does in fact produce. "MS Windows" sound familiar? Of course, the text you quoted did not include MS Windows but I think it also is a trademark.
So we have:
MS Windows (by Microsoft).
MS Office (by Microsoft)
Ms Pacman (who knows)
MS Flight Simulator (by Microsoft)
MS does not make a very good trademark at all.
The other observation to be made is that Microsoft is about to lose its "windows" trademark. Maybe it already has for all practical purposes.
But, of course the original issue of this thread is whether you can use a trademark in your comments. And, the answer is that you can. And, as long as you tell the truth there is no liable liability associated with its use in that way. If you give false information (such as FUD, etc) then you can be guilty of product defamation or degredation. In other words, you can bad mouth a product using that products trademark but you are only in the clear if you tell the truth.
In other words, false statements can have legal consequences. But, that would be true whether or not you used the precise trademark held by the company.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
this has little to do with idealism, (bucko). It has been shown time and time again that once locked into a Microsoft solution, Micro$oft turns the screws with unreasonable licensing agreements, costly updates that you must purchase because you are, after all, locked into there non-standard compliant software.
And BTW, whom are you calling a kid? I'm a professional in the computer software industry with over 20 years experience. I would guess that I have a much better understanding of the way things really are than most. Much better than your short sited view. Sure, It may be tough dumping Microsoft for a while but the benefits of using open source software that you know will follow open standards is undeniable and worth it.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Don't hold you're breath. I got the basic design on paper, the parts is an other matter. Maybe be another month before I got the money. When I do, I do intent to photograph it all and put it online. But that may be some time away.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You don't need to be a technical wizz to be able to do this. All you need to do is download the latest version of Mozilla and see if you can reproduce other people's bugs so that the developers know that their time won't be wasted on non-issues and ensure that real problems are looked at in a timely fashion.
More information in the kill-unco FAQ.