Slashdot Mirror
Linux Replacing Windows More Than Unix
LordNimon writes "Over the past couple years, we've been hearing several Linux migration stories, but they have been mostly migration from proprietary Unix systems rather than from Windows. Well, this story on News.com indicates otherwise: of the migrations, 24% were from Unix, but 31% were from Windows. Sounds promising."
Linux sucks? sorry. fp.
is the loneliest number that you'll ever do.
Unofficial Slashdot FAQ
By ReluctantBadger
- "Hi. Yeah. Erm, what the hell are 'boxen', 'VAXen', 'OSen' and 'Virii'?"
- "Why is everyone so against Microsoft? And what is up with that dollar sign?"
- "Who is Junis?"
- "What is 'YHBT. YHL. HAND.'? I see it everywhere!"
- "Why the hell would someone want to re-program some obscure electronic device that is no longer produced?"
- "I recently saw an article on programming, and lots of people posted code snippets. Problem is, most of it was wrong. Why is
that?"
If you'd like to make a contribution to the FAQ, post a reply or e-mail this 3l337 h@x0r"These are mystical non-words, which have been conjured up by stupid wankers wanting to appear hip, cool and intellectual. Nothing to see here. Please move along."
"Welcome to Slashdot. Much in the same way that one dog sniffs another's ass to evaluate that individual, so is this practice of marking your grounds of viewpoint. Think of it as a Linux user bending over and farting - It is all about making their views heard.
"The most legendary troll ever to grace the pages of Slashdot. Not only was a Slashdot editor duped into posting a complete article on the opression of Kabul's geeks, but it also spawned a veritable banquet of new trolling material (such as optimum temperatures for storing Commodore hardware buried under chicken huts and the abundance of DivX Baywatch episodes)"
"This is commonly seen in comments sections after a pathetic Slashboteer or paranoid YRO fanatic has been suckered into replying to a finely crafted piece of literary genius."
"Many cock-smoking Slashdot users like to claim that it is 'because they can'. In fact, it boils down to 'because I've got nothing else better to do'. These are normally the same people who think that their university attendance made them technical gods and everyone else is worthless."
"A high percentage of Slashdot users are still in university, and think that after day 1 of 'Introduction to C' that they are ready to code embedded systems for Boeing or Raytheon. They spend endless hours posting about how they've hacked device x, when in fact all they've done is downloaded the SDK, bragged about 16-bit bus register cron-job front side bus accumulators and watched 'Anti-Trust' for the 797th time."
This troll is dedicated to Nicola Wheeler on ITV's Emmerdale. mmmmm.... top heavy....
maybe I need to read the article.
Netcraft confirms...Linux is Dying
The coolest users migrate to the .test community instead.
Does that mean the other 46% left the mac?
Although it's not mentioned in the piece, what I find interesting is that it's old WinNT 4.0 installs as well as Win2k that are the most likely to be replaced by Linux.
This is workstations and servers primarily. Although that new $199 walmart Lindows box may start to skew things back towards the desktop market.
IMO Microsoft really shot themselves in the foot by planning to discontinue Windows 2000. Can you really imagine WinXP as a workstation tool? Not likely. I think we'll see more of the Linux replacements in the future. I think we'll also see a lot more Linux-loving fags openly declaring their love for other men's bowels. That's really the next stage for the linux community.
since Linux is looking more and more like Windows every day. I'm amazed at how much KDE tries to ape Windows rather than trying to adddress the problems of the Windows interface.
I fear that if Linux continues in this problem we may end the problem of being weighed down by a monopolistic regime but we will still not have bettered the PC computing environment.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
31% of what? The 3 retards you invited to answer your stupid poll?
It's good, very good indeed, but I am still looking for a groupware solution. I am working with different startup companies from time to time and when i get the chance to get UNIX in from the start, it's great. :) And with *BSD, linux, whatever you can get a fileserver webserver, router, firewall up and running. So I need a groupware system with email, calendar etc, like you get with Notes, Exchange, GroupWise etc. You should also be able to get agents to sync with your PDA's. I remember seeing a Suse dist. with Notes once, but is it still available and Notes seems like a big mouthful when you are only 10 people. But then again there's room to grow with it.
my sig
...of the migrations, 24% were from Unix, but 31% were from Windows.
On first reading I was wondering what operating systems could possibly make up the missing 45%, but it's not 31% and 24% of the *migrations* but of the total new Linux servers:
"For those that have recently purchased new Linux servers, 31 percent were adding capacity, 31 percent were replacing Windows systems, 24 percent were replacing Unix and 14 percent were replacing other operating systems."
So as a percentage of migrations, nearly half are Linux replacing Windows (maybe over 50% replacing MS systems including DOS):
45% Windows to Linux
35% Unix to Linux
20% Other to Linux
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
Maybe Redhat could get some mileage out of this.
How can you tell that it is near the end of the work day in my timezone and I desparately need to be entertained?
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
Purchasing a new (additional) server is not a migration, Thankyouverymuch. e.g. I was born June '82, I did not migrate. :)
Ali
Ph33r m3!!!
The hype is starting to die down and people are getting clued to the fact that BSD > *linux.
24% from Unix, 31% from Windows - That only makes up 55% of the migrations to linux. Where are the other 45% of migrations coming from?
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
With all the doom-mongers saying that Linux is failing as a viable desktop replacement, this just tells the story how it is. Linux is catching up. I'd expect this margin to increase dramatically over the next 12-18 months.
slainfu
"I can't be a terrorist if you're sucking my bum."
That is the REAL encoraging sign.
Sure there is the odd case of an incorectly sized server being put to a task it can't manage.
However most "Adding Capacity" is from satisfide customers who are moving other services to the platform in question or even better have grown the business so much that they need to buy more and/or biger machines.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Statistics are nice to look at, but often have glaring loopholes that some people choose to conveniently look over.
The biggest problem with this survey is that Unix usage has gone through the roof in the last two years with the advent of Mac OS X.
Since people who have Mac OS X are technically 'UNIX users', but are unlikely to uninstall OS X to run Yellow Dog Linux, it is fair to say that less UNIX users that ever are going over to Linux. Why? Because they're happy staying on BSD.
BSD classifies as 'UNIX'.. and we need to remember a LOT of people are going over to BSD from old style UNIX. Yet.. they aren't factored in here. Legacy UNIX to BSD is not taken into account, when really it's a pretty important shift.
mogorific carpentry experiments
I'm not so sure if the limitations in audio and video applications are due to the i386 architecture or Windows, but I'm inclined to think it's more a software problem than a hardware problem. I love Linux for the limited things it does so well and reliably, but really wish there were more creative applications for Linux than there are. Lately, I've been taxing my Win2k (yes, I actually own one of them) with Cakewalk, Soundforge, MidiQuest tasks and it's starting to really feel the pain (can't make it run for several days at a time any longer, yet I think that's because of ColdFusion MX and that damned cfmail tag).
I'm starting to get really envious of all those MacHeads who seem to always stick with their beloved Apples. Frankly, I left the Mac in '93 because OS 7+ was such a freaking disaster to try and work with, but now that OS X is coming of age and all those OS 9-- applications are getting ported over, perhaps there's a brighter future for artist applications like ProTools and Adobe Photoshop. I mean, it's not like it takes too many switches to do a gcc ProTools.c on one architecture over the other does it? >:)
Perhaps we'll find out whether it's the hardware architecture or the operating system that's limited productive creative applications sooner than we think. We just need those Windows users to keep jumping ship; since the MacHeads don't appear to be willing to do so...
www.dedserius.com
VB != VisualBasic
This article seems to deal mostly with servers and corporations. What about desktop users and/or other home users.
While there are probably a lot of corps out there thinking about switching to linux from unix/windows, there are also an increasing amount of home users searching for an alternate desktop environment.
I wonder how this might tally if things such as linux firewalls, mp3 servers, and other more custom uses were considered?
duh.
"The remainder (46 percent) noted they didn't own and weren't considering Linux."
Somehow I can just picture the smug faces of managers answering this, like they're real proud to be MS-fanboys :-}
Belief is the currency of delusion.
24% from Unix and 31% from Windows ... look at the difference in the size of the install base! The 31% that convered from Windows are probably 0.01% of the total users, whereas 24% could be somewhere like 0.5% of Unix users.
Unless you're counting "Other" and "added capacity" as "well, they would have run Windows on them, so we'll count it as a steal" I don't see it.
The real question is how many companies actually migrate. I have heard a lot about big companies migrating to Linux, but what is the radio of Windows to Linux overall? This is good news, though.
Well, they are!!!
Is not flamebait!!
Whoa Whoa. Hold up. I thought every one was switching to Apple. ;)
Still I believe those numbers are a little higher than that. Maybe not for full production use, but everywhere I look I see a lot of people switching over to linux to provide a low cost alternative to M$.
"I bet I'll get blamed for this." --Mayor Quimby
Percentages mean nothing unless we have the numbers used to calculate the percentages. 31% of 10 is not such a big deal; 31% of 100 million, on the other hand, is significant.
Jamey Kirby
Ok here is the deal, If i have a kick-ass Solaris m/c which i bough 2 years ago (was kick-ass back then).
Solaris technology has not changed so much to force me to upgrade the hardware. I can always download the latest solaris OS and keep my m/c uptodate.
Same goes for other propritory *nix boxes.
Now on the other hand, I bought a WinNT Server two years ago. Somehow i have managed to work with it.
but now if i want to upgrade to XP, i have no choice but to buy the latest x86 based hardware.
Plus the trackrecord of M$ for security and stability is also at the back of my mind
Now if i dont want to upgarde my x86 based hardware every two years then a lean-mean version of linux makes more sence.
As in current economy I dont have the budget to buy a Solaris box.
If your company doesn't want to keep pace with the x86 based hardware upgrades, then LINUX is the BEST choice out there. Install it and forget about it.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
If I were to guess at where there was the most potential for conversion from Windows to Linux, I'd guess low- to mid-end engineering apps (e.g. FPGA synthesis, place & route, simulation). It used to be that all engineering apps only an on UNIX (Solaris or HPUX). Then, these apps migrated to Windows. However, Windows was a terrible mess until recently for such apps. While Win2K has become a servicable platform for such apps, it's just "not the same" as the app under UNIX. Linux offers the same advantage experienced in the bygone days under Solaris/HPUX with the cost benefit of a free OS and inexpensive, powerful hardware.
I hate to break it to you, but the *nix war is over. Linux has lost. BSD is by far more accepted now than Linux is. MacOS X has it all: The ability to run commercial apps, the ability to run every app linux/bsd does, better support, and it has a hell of a lot better UI than any linux window manager. KDE/Gnome are a JOKE compared to OSX. You might as well get over the linux HYPE. The GNU commies have lost, BSD/OSX has won. It'll be ok, you might get over it, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, get actual lives.
...that happens when someone runs outta coffee!
One 31% is replacements, and another 31% is adding capacity.
Ali
Ph33r m3!!!
Evolution has really caught the attention of a lot of people in your position. It acts like Outlook and works with Exchange, but isnt filled with the M$ vuln. Plus it does a damn good job with pda compatibility. I know that there is a pilot conduit built in and they have it syncing with the zaurus pdas (not sure about pocket pc).
I really think that Evolution is one of the best products out there, I switched from kmail to it.
Plus, it's free (dont think its oss).
forget it.
It's funny how no one is mentioning that this article is about migration to linux SERVERS. It isn't a corporation changing all thier workstations, or anything worthwhile. Linux is great for a server, who needs more proof of that? They day it is an acceptable desktop replacement, well, we will have to wait and see when that happens. All hippies and commies do is conform.
Since there are way more Windows installations than Unix installations, the fact that 24% of the migrations are from Unix and 31% are from Windows means that Linux is hitting Unix WAY harder than it is hitting Windows.
Is it just me, or does anybody else here find it weird to go to a slashdot article about Linux and migration from Windows and find an ad for Microsoft Visual Studio .net right below the article (if you're not getting the ad, try to refresh a couple of times, I don't know if that will do it, but it's worth a shot).
Since when did slashdot start to advertise for Microsoft products?
--
\ Christian A Strømmen
Replace slick as a horny rattlesnake in a can of boiling olive oil WINx with obscure, whiny el-kludg0 KDE?? ohmeohmy read the article, byte-boyz ... it said Linux wuz replacing windows SERVERS, not Lusr GUIs ... jeeez the only Window GUIs being replaced by Linux are located in walls! Bare blank panes-of-glass on rainy dayz ...
Statistically valid surveys always quote their margin of error. If there isn't any, this survey is probably not representative of the industry at large.
company (I've got 1 linux server in the door).
It's simple economics, instead of spending time chasing down licenses you spend time improving your offerings.
The only proprietary system we use (outside the desktop) is oracle on solaris(sparc) but that is one of those things you'll never convince a CIO that Linux/Oracle 9i == Sun/Oracle 9i (which is true I guess if you look at the cost of servers, since sun is very expensive to run).
Our company (admittedtly a small one - around 35 people) has done both migrations at the same time and have saved a ton of money in the process.
We are an engineering company, and used to have two computers on every desk - a UNIX workstation (combination of Suns and HPs) for the "real work", and a Windoze PC for things like email and documentation. Now, these have both been replaced by Athlon 2000+ machines running Linux. The main thing we were waiting for was the UNIX EDA software (from Mentor Graphics) to be ported to Linux. We now use mainly OpenOffice for documentation and Evolution/Kmail (depending on personal preference) for email.
The combination of ditching the expensive workstation hardware and the MS Office software has made the basic platform really cheap. The main cost, however, is still the EDA software, but even that is coming down. The added side benefit is less computer clutter and much simpler system administration.
When I came to my current job- the I.S. Director thought Linux was 'hacker junk'.
Well a lot of factors have come together and now he comes to me on a regular basis and says- "find me something open source that does such and such" We have 2 Linux servers up and running and we are looking to move a bunck of our desktops to Linux (using a browser for their apps)
The main driving reason has been cost.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Free clues for BSD fans:
;P Every mac "server" I've seen so far in the "real world" is a lowend fileserver for a cluster macs hidden in some publishing office.
1. The percentages were for _servers_. Sorry, but apple's server market share is like 0.00001% right now
2. The only people (numerious enough to be of any statistical relevance) "migrating" to MacOS X are Mac desktop users upgrading from Macs and a small number of windows/linux/whatever converts (though judging from apple's sales figures those probably fall into "not statistically relevant")
3. I love when BSD fans latch onto Mac OS X and say stuff like "see! BSD is more used then Linux!" blah blah blah. Meanwhile most people don't give two hoots about any BSD parts of the OS (they don't see it, don't really program for it). And proprietary apple-only APIs are what developers use to get the most out of the hardware and operating system. Sorry, but your average well written native apple app is about as BSD as Windows NT is UNIX (tm) Photoshop for FreeBSD anyone? Yeah... I thought so...
Oh well... time to get mod'd ( -1, The Truth Hurts )
--- polarbear
The efforts of Lindows and WineX seem to be counter-OSS, big businesses seem more interested in exploiting OSS than actually giving back to the community. Granted, there are a few businesses that help the OSS movement, but the carrier-class and business apps/server manufacturers are interested only in what OSS can get them for free, without ever releasing any source or adding patches to the community. Then there's the shizters out there that claim to be OSS that have these so-called Open Licenses (*cough* Apple) that are really trying to use code for free. And there are the projects that were open source and free (*cough* MySQL) that turn into payware developed by the community. These cases really show the need to assignment copyright over to the FSF, so that maintainers/contributors dont destroy great OSS projects.
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
+1 Funny? WTF are you on?
Well, you usually hear this as an off-topic troll, but I'm willing to risk a few mod points to be a voice of sanity.
Linux really isn't that great compared to other Unices. It is the media darling, partly because it fits the "built in someone's garage" cliche. It really is an alternative to Windows, and not Unix systems.
Linux rarely gets used on big iron. The only time you'll hear about some fast set of machines is in something like a cluster, for non-mission-critical applications. Even IBM, the diehard supporters of Linux, will openly admits that it just can't compete with AIX.
My personal opinion as to why... It has always just been something cool to hack away at. Very little work has been done to get security and stability overall. As an example, take the filesystem, EXT2.
Anyone who has used Linux for more than a week has had an Ext2 filesystem get corrupted. While I realize that there are other filesystems now, and that example is out-dated, I haven't used Linux extensively for a while, so any examples I give will be outdated.
More than that there are consistency problems. So much work is going into adding new features as quickly as possible, that stability, consistency, and ease of use just goes out the window. Compiling a new kernel should be a simple process (and one that should be unessecary) but instead gives you tons of kernel modules that are unuseable. Not a show-stopper, just another little problem that will take more time.
Linux development just has the Windows' attitude... Not a Unix attitude. I can't speak for anyone else (although it statistically looks like I do) but I don't think Linux has a chance against stable, secure, consistent, high-performance systems. I just think of it as a geek toy... Like a Dreamcast.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Steven: Yeah, I used to tell people to buy Window based computers all the time.
[Camera pans around a bit]
Steven: Yeah, and um, down in Austin it would get like intense over those blue screens that would pop up and like, I just totally couldn't stand that freakin' paper clip. Then my comp sci professor introduced me to Star Office. Like whoa! No paper clip! And like, my buddies say I can play around with the kernal! Yeah, I think he does fried chicken and stuff.
[Camera cuts to close-up]
Steven: Uh, my name is Steven and dude, I got a Del... uh, Linux. Yeah, that's right! Linux.
It seemed to me that the story talked about conversions on a server level. My first thought was "Oh, that's only on the server level?" But then I realized something: Linux is best at the server level.
I don't mean to start another flame war...but I'm am one who firmly believes that what you want to do fully impacts what OS you use. I have three computers at home. One runs Linux full time. One runs Windows XP full time. The laptop runs both Windows 98 and Linux (Dual boot). If I want to write music and stuff, I sure as hell ain't going to be using linux. If I want to be doing some serious firewalling...I'm not going to use WinXP.
So in conclusion, I would have to say that the migration is nice...but I don't care where they migrate from. I'm not in the open source war to beat down what we already have. One of the faults of war is to blatently avoid everything associated with the enemy. There should be some middle ground. After all, Marketing aside, Microsoft does have something.
Real kernel hackers run BSD.
I should point out, I've never owned a Mac in my life, do not use them on a regular basis, and have used Mac OS X for all of perhaps 30 seconds in PC World.
However, I am aware that BSD (not just in Darwin form) is becoming rather popular, with numerous people leaving Linux to go the BSD route.
While I might not have been totally correct about the statistics, it's fair to say that BSD has certainly eaten into the amount of people who may have chosen Linux instead.
mogorific carpentry experiments
XP has yet to crash on me (and so had Windows 2000 yet to
This code will crash Win2K. Compile as a console app:
int main()
{
for (;;) {
printf("This is really cool\t\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b"); }
}
}
Just one datapoint: We just migrated some 60-odd desktop systems to Linux from HP-UX, and are happy campers. Other divisions of our company are now looking into doing the same. Overall, we're a (roughly) 1100 employee company, from which an estimated (by me, here and now) 300 can become Linux users without much problems.
Of course, we operate in the EDA research business (and related areas), so we're atypical and many people around here very much prefer anything UNIX-like over The Other Operating System. But still... Less than two years ago Linux was still a big No-No as far as the head of IT was concerned, even though several unofficial system already existed and the presure to officially support Linux was on already.
Linux user since early January 1992.
A malicious user can always crash a machine when they have login access to it. But, with a *nix a good admin can configure it so that its much more unlikely to happen. Wrt network security and stability, there's no contest, *nix wins hands down.
Surely you jest, pad're .... can you imagine trying to run KDE_3 on a K-6_450 with 64Mb?
well maybe the newbies trying it would have been reluctant to try it if it didn't look familiar (a la Win/MacOS). I know my family is considering trying it now that they've seen KDE3/Gnome2 on my system.
They want something familiar and can do what they need it to do.
su `cat /dev/urandom` > /dev/null | su `cat /dev/urandom`&
Did the poll take into account how many people were going from Windows to Linux, and back to Windows? And all of you know who you are....
Its cooler to say "Im a Linux user" I guess. Even in geek-dom do we have social classes. Sad and pathetic. Clinging to something as if it were religion. Maybe these people and the "Amiga-rulez!" crowd ought to get together. Here's an idea, people - be your own person. Dont be sheep for Redhat and Co. either...
to wake up one morning and find out that M$ is gone, is no longer there. No winders, no 'docs', no crap. It will do the economy good, because with the disappearance of winders and its office tools, the cohorts of idiot upper and middle managers would have to go too ("Where do I click to do eeil ees?"). No more, "I'll shoot you a two line doc with the cost breakdown." (two lines, but still 2 megs, and three viruses).
I made KDE3 run on a K6-2 300 with 128. It worked perfectly. A little slow, but once I put in more RAM it was smooth sailing.
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
"Sounds promising." Promising for what? Much of the good news here was generated by Red Hat, and last time I checked the Linux crowd was worried about them being a big software company like Microsoft (see the Slashdot article). Linux people are funny - if Linux did take over the computing industry, there would just be pissing over who did it and how! Time to face it - Linux people enjoy it when their OS is a little underdog... They should stop pretending to get excited when it gets more popular. It wouldn't be for the geek elite if lots of people used it...
Arguably, all icon/mouse-based interfaces are pretty much the same. I.e., you click on an icon and something happens.
Maybe building a desktop that uses icons and a mouse that doesn't look like all the rest will have to wait for the shift that rids us of mice.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I have no reason to doubt the numbers. But are they particularly exciting, when you consider the sheer size of the installed base of Windows compared to proprietary Unices? I don't know the numbers, but I suspect the rate of Un*x defectors may actually be higher than the rate of Windows defectors. And that, in the long run, is the focus of Redmond.
Check Netcraft for Confirmation. On another note this article supports an earlier survey here regarding the Enterprise environment and Networking. This is a 29 page PDF report from March. Biggest drivers: Cost and Ease of use. The report is a good read. A look at the source, and not a reporter's digestion of the facts.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
In fact, the biggest growth area for Linux is NOT on desktop installations, but workgroups and departmental server installations. This is because servers are usually configured very few times, not multiple times like you have with desktop machines.
People forget that Linux is not yet a true auto-configuring desktop operating system like Windows is now. That could result in a pretty frustrating experiences, especially when the desktop user starts updating hardware and adds hot-docked external devices.
Is it small wonder why the Linux 2.6.x kernel will include Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) support? With ACPI support in Linux, that makes it vastly easier for end users to upgrade hardware and setup hot-docked external devices that use IEEE-1394 and USB connections.
The percentages given in the article and quoted here not of migrations, but of new Linux server purchases. Of those purchases, 31% were adding capacity, and were not migrations at all. The remaining 69% are what constitute the migrations, so the 31% of the total that corresponded to migrations from Windows actually corresponds to 31%/69% = 45% of the migrations. So in actuality, nearly half of the migrations are away from Windows. The revised migration percentages away from UNIX and "other operating systems," respectively, are 35% and 20%.
...due to Microsoft's new licensing scheme. That's something a lot of businesses hate with something of a passion, I believe.
#define sig "Every social system runs on the people's belief in it."
...is that I laughed hardest at your one liner. :)
This code will crash Linux. Compile as a console app:
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/socket.h>
#include <string.h>
char buf[128 * 1024];
int main ( int argc, char **argv )
{
struct sockaddr SyslogAddr;
int LogFile;
int bufsize = sizeof(buf)-5;
int i;
for ( i = 0; i < bufsize; i++ )
buf[i] = ' '+(i%95);
buf[i] = '\0';
SyslogAddr.sa_family = AF_UNIX;
strncpy ( SyslogAddr.sa_data, "/dev/log", sizeof(SyslogAddr.sa_data) );
LogFile = socket ( AF_UNIX, SOCK_DGRAM, 0 );
sendto ( LogFile, buf, bufsize, 0, &SyslogAddr, sizeof(SyslogAddr) );
return 0;
}
Identify the class of distributions for which mean, median and mode are the same
Symmetric distributions are like that. Others may exist.
and give three (non-normal) examples. At least one should NOT be in the exponential family.
Student t distributions (other than the meanless Cauchy distribution), the Laplacian distribution (exponential reflected about the mean axis, which occurs often in image compression), and the sum of 2 <= n < infinity independent random variables uniformly distributed in the same domain (case n = 2 is a triangular distribution; case n = infinity is the normal distribution; n cannot be 1 because a uniform distribution has no well defined mode). In addition to these continuous examples, I could give any number of discrete examples.
Can the sample at hand be considered a member of that class? Answer true or false, and support the answer.
False in theory but true in practice. Intelligence quotient distribution is not strictly normal because a normal distribution has support over the entire real line, but IQ cannot be less than zero. However, it appears roughly normal throughout plus or minus three standard deviations.
ObMigrationToLinux: I'm a bit curious about the distribution of market capitalizations of companies that have recently migrated their servers to the Linux operating system.
Speaking of distributions, which distribution is most popular among Linux users who migrated from BSD? Is it Slackware?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Topic: Migration to Linux (and possibly from Mac OS)
I mean, it's not like it takes too many switches to do a gcc ProTools.c on one architecture over the other does it?
If the developers of Pro Tools ported their app from the Mac OS X platform to the Windows platform or to the Linux/i686 platform, they would have to either rewrite or emulate the PowerPC assembly language inner loops.
Perhaps we'll find out whether it's the hardware architecture or the operating system that's limited productive creative applications sooner than we think.
Do you really think Intel's SSE2 is better than Motorola's AltiVec?
Will I retire or break 10K?
http://www.morganstanley.com/institutional/eInterp riseSoftware/ciosurvey/cio_survey_release_3.5.pdf
The latest, hopefully the august one will show soon.
When I started my job two years ago, our data center was 100% NT-based. Little by little I've convinced management to migrate various tasks off of Windows and onto Linux. My single 2U RedHat server handles our corporate website, Intranet, FTP, DNS caching, and more. This eliminated several other systems and their associated licensing fees. The machine has been powered up stable since day one, and at 240 days, my uptime is the best in the room.
Linux has also proven itself at our company as a great free network monitoring tool, thanks to snort and MRTG, etc.
One of the biggest wins with the management here was that I was able to prove that Linux can play nicely in an NT domain. People are always surprised that it authenticates domain users and that sort of thing.
We still have alot of NT servers on the rack, but so far my one Linux box runs so well, I don't think we'll ever need another!
What's that? My iMac runs Linux just fine, and I can install any of 10,000 packages from the Debian archive. Well over 99% of commonly-used Linux software builds and runs equally well on any hardware platform. './configure && make'
The Winlots might say that it's not so bad or it's only for their own good (having always the same version) some other market-speak.
But there are 2 scary facts:
1: With the new licensing scheme, Microsoft is taking the power to decide away from the user.
2: Microsoft showed that they don't hesitate long to change EULAs and licensing schemes the way they see fit.
Even if it were not more expensive (but it is!) it would be hated.
With Linux or *Bsd you have a very functional server running on
k6-450 with 64mg of ram because a GUI is not a necessity.
-
Just think how much someone from even just 1992 would
be laughing at your ass when you say that a 450 with
64meg of ram is not enough.
In my experience (I've been using linux for 5 years now) I've never had an ext2 filesystem become corrupt because of any reason other than power failure and even then I've only ever had to manually intervene in an fsck once and that was to press y a couple of times.
And yes, your example is outdated. Linux has several journalling filesystems now.
What would you propose? Linus doesn't control the hardware linux runs on so can't limit the options that way. Auto detect what is the current machine? Kinda makes it hard to compile stuff for a different machine not to mention making modules for hardware that isn't installed yet.Fact is linux probably supports more hardware than any other operating system other than Windows. NetBSD may support more architectures but linux has more device drivers.
74% of all statistics are made up on the spot so statistically speaking yours are probably among them. Say for instance you pulled your head out of your arse for a minute. You may actually realise that without the free nixes, the Real Unix world would be in deep shit. Windows wouldn't have any competition in the low to mid range. Universities are already starting to drop *nix as a teaching plateform and with *nix relegated to the high end this could only happen faster. With generations of IT Professionals only having used Windows it's only a matter of time before the *nix vendors start dropping it and His Billness rules the world.If nothing else linux is introducing a new generation of computer techies to *nix. It's a shit load cheaper than your Real Unix and despite your pondering (seeing as you admit to not actually using linux) linux is quite stable and reliable.
You sir are a troll.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
I'm guessing Microsoft try to make a last dash for it...
More people are changing from Windows -to- Linux than Unix -to- Linux! Probably because there are more users that are fed up with Windows than those who hate Unix. That seems kinda obvious!
--Ps, That was a Joke.
| - | - |
I can destroy a linux workstation with one command:
sudo rm -rf /
OMG! OMG! OMG!
Idiot.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Some of them are:
gEDA - schematic capture, board layout
Icarus Verilog - verilog simulation, synthesis
Savant - VHDL analysis, simulation (sequential and parallel)
GnuCAP - a mostly Spice compatible circuit simulator
The Open Collector has references to these projects and many more! (Full disclosure; I'm an upstream author on the SAVANT project.)
That's inovation for you.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
KDE seems to be striking a reasonable balance between not terrifying incoming Windows users, and curing some of Windows' ills. Have you tried the newer KDEs? KDE 3.0.x with translucency only looks like Windows until you click on something, KDE 3.1 even more so. I don't see XP ripping audio CDs for you when you drag them onto a filesystem, I don't see it giving you a choice of cut/paste methods, I don't see protocol drivers for odd devices (think palmtops) accessible within the existing file management paradigm, and so on.
Windows 3 had fixed-sized elevators because Macintosh had them. So IRL, who is it chasing tail-lights?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I noticed that they're not talking revenue .. if you look at revenues, Unix gets hit harder that Windows because a Unix box can cost a shitload more than windows.
From that standpoint, it's bad news for unix lovers.
But talking about Linux, yeah Linux wins no matter how you look at it.
Once again, an inferior operating system is being foisted on unsuspecting consumers. We need to get the word out just how badly linux has set back the state of computing trying to reinvent BSD.
Try to buy a 32 CPU linux box and run oracle on it. And *no* Beuwolf is not an option here, and neither (usually) is OPs or federated databases.
I don't see protocol drivers for odd devices (think palmtops) accessible within the existing file management paradigm, and so on.
I am not sure what you are trying to say but I have been able to access my PocketPC filesystem through explorer quite nicely, thank you.
Mmmm.. Donuts
and Linux is the Windows of the unix world.
Because all is not what it seems.
There's a TV ad here encouraging people to wear seatbelts. It says "Of the xxx fatal car crashes in Tasmania last year, 1 in 3 weren't wearing a seatbelt" or words to that effect. I joke that this means you are twice as likely to die if you wear a seatbelt. The error in that logic is that there are far more people wearing seatbelts than not.
What I'd like to see is the percentage of Windows users moving to Linux, not the percentage of Linux users who came from Windows.
hey stupid..he's trying to say KDE has it's merits.
can't read?
I imagined a MicroVAX running ULTRIX... can that run Windows too?
Do you have any figures to back up that claim? It seems pretty implausible to me, even if we look at desktop usage. On the server, of course, it is clearly false, given the miniscule usage of Macintosh for servers.
Besides, what is your point? Most Macintosh users don't use or see much of the UNIX functionality. UNIX applications still require quite a bit of porting to become native Macintosh applications. And Macintosh applications aren't portable to non-Macintosh UNIX systems. And Macintosh users still use Microsoft Office and IE, like good little Bill Gates clones.
1. There are definately BSD's being used as servers. Probably not a lot of Macs, because Macs aren't built to be servers. Why pay for a built in screen and graphics and such when a faceless server would suffice? No one uses Linux running Xboxes for servers either, that doesn't mean Linux doesn't make a good server.
2. O'Reilly did a survey and more new Mac users were coming from the Linux camp than anywhere else. From what I've seen of Apple's sales figures (latest 10-Q) sales are much too high to be the same old Mac users, the new ones are coming from somewhere.
3. I love 'em too. Most Linux desktop users don't give two hoots about the underlying Linux kernel either. Developing for an API like Apple's OSX API would be like, oh say... developing for Gnome or KDE's API, or God-forbid Motif. Did I miss something, because I have yet to see Mozilla run in the Linux console?
...and statistics. This article was bit misleading and overstated the importance of the sudden surge in Linux server acquisitions. The actual numbers only suggest that 41% of an undisclosed number of CIOs had changed their Windows servers to Linux. While this sounds good up front (as the article intended), when one considers that if this undisclosed number were a small percentage of CIOs considering purchases then 41% of, say 5%, is not a whole lot. I think the article failed to mention how truly insignificant this 41% really is on purpose.
i couldn't upgrade to xp because i didn't want to pay for my os, so in the future i may be forced to move to linux, even though windows is better.
why is windows better? because:
a. hardware support
b. applications (yeah linux has lots of apps and more every day but windows still has more)
c. games
Fine, take the rinky dink shit servers. Leave BSD to the big boys with the big farms. You talk photoshop and servers in the same breath... who the fuck runs photoshop on a server?
Suck my big red beastie dick, you linux fag.
Windows is not the problem and Linux isn't the answer. If Linux is so great then why do you have to recompile the kernel just to install a browser? I have been an MSCE for 2 years now
and I feel that I have much experience in this game. All one really needs to do is just install Zone Alarm Pro, the set-and-forget firewall. That's how I have advised my organization to solve our old Klez problems. Face the facts, as long as you're running Zone Alarm, you don't even need to check any logs but about every 6 months. No virii either.
Now that Linux/BSD is eating NT's lunch just like NT ate Netware, I get it.
Netware's superiority didn't matter, because Windows NT (even 9x at some sites) was (it sickens me to say this) good enough. It used to be that your server was the highest end box in the building. Now it's "don't throw away that old Pentium 166; we can use it as a server."
Servers are a commodity. The reason Linux/BSD is beating NT isn't because it's better (even though it is ;-), it's because it costs less. There is no major attribute by which a server can distinguish itself as being better than another (in the eyes of the common man), except cost.
Desktops were almost a commodity too, which is why Microsoft reacted so violently toward Netscape's web browser and Sun's Java. One of these days, someone is going to come up with something that they can make stick. And then Microsoft will join Novell in history.
Actually, I think it's kind of sad that it might possibly turn out to be something as lame as Gnome or KDE that unseats Windows. But sometimes I think peoples' standards just may be low enough (after all, they accepted Windows).
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I have been a UNIX admin full-time since 1993. I have had primary reponsibility for NEXTSTEP 3.1+, OS/2 WaRP, AIX, HP/UX, SUNOS, SOLARIS (Worked at Sun for 2 years), Linux, privately Mac OS 6.x & 7.x, and against my will, Windows 3.0 - Win2000. Not tp mention embedded systems, routers, Cisco IOS, etc.
I finally bought a Mac TiBook in February of this year. I felt that I had to reward the NeXT crew who successfully took over Apple, the Apple employees who saw the light and got behind the movement, and the users who deserve a true alternative.
I have the 31337 sk1llz to run and maintain one or several Linux boxes for my home use. I proudly run CoyoteLinux for my router, and my gaming PC boots into Linux to keep my NeXT Cube, Sun SS20 712MP and TiBook company. The TiBook G4 running OS X is, I firmly believe, the best example of a true commercial grade UNIX-like computing solution from newbie to greybeard guru.
When my old retiree family members next ask me to recommend and broker their personal computing solutions, I will recommend iMacs or eMacs running OS X. I can't recommend emacs, since vi r00lz!!!
OS X is a unified solution. Think of all of those erstwhile-productive cycles that have been wasted on emacs v. vi, Linux v. BSD, KDE v. GNOME, ad nauseam. Apple just made NEXTSTEP more modern, and made freakin sexy hardware to run it on. I have had a Mac 512K, a Mac Plus, a Mac IIci, a Newton as well as Sun Sparc 1, 1+, 2, 5, 10, 20 , Ultra 10, Ultra 5 (POS), Ultra 60, and have worked on (still do) Enterprise 1 through 6500 4-way clusters. How many of you work on million dollar computers?
OS X is whagt the linux community might have been able to develop with a truly visionary hardware manufacturer. But, that would have spawned many more religious wars about openness and such. So, fsck that all, Apple did it and did it well.
I _could_ use Linux now, to manage all of my professional and personal affairs. But, I _choose_ to run OS X 10.2. It is the grandchild of NEXTSTEP, and I once loved it's ancestor more than any aspect of the open Source community. Because it was Art. It was beauty. And it exceeded expectations.
When was the last time any aspect of GNU/Linux _exceeded_ your expectations?
Oh, shit, if I thought my considered rant would end up behind "Suck me big red beastie dick, you linux fag" I might have changed the tone a bit!
Regardless, beastie dick does have a point. OS X is the desktop that so many have labored for and sweated to build. It is not Solaris, (ugh) HP/UX (/ugh), or OS390. Those are server OSes for you kids.
It is a home and light industrial desktop in a networked realm. Do not get confused. But, it is beautiful, functional, and it does fulfill the promise. Though Services are still crap compared to NEXTSTEP.
I will use the above to excuse myself from having to suck on a big red bestie dick. Thed rest of you may line up.
How many CIO's don't even know they are running Linux??
Go out and get sailing!
But, my second was What is the count of UNIX to Windows servers?
I suspect that the number of total Windows server installed allows a greater numerical loss while suffering a much lesser market share loss...
RonSpace
The story goes something like this:
~Shop runs UNIX machines
~Base and upgrade costs on UNIX boxen are high, and Management complains of high TCO on UNIX, too.
~Shop migrates to cheaper x86 hardware running Windows NT
~Management and a few staff love Windows, the rest hate it for religious reasons.
~Windows-hating, UNIX-loving staff starts setting up Linux boxen 'guerrilla style,' shows Linux boxen working successfully to other employees.
~When employee support is high, Linux solution to task Foo is shown to Mgmt by members of staff that miss UNIX.
~Mgmt. chooses to accept or deny Linux solution.
~If Linux solution is accepted and works properly with few hitches, Linux takes over. If there are problems, shop keeps running Windows.
Red Hat wouldn't want to risk having Apple sue them for stealing the 'look and feel' of one of their advertising campaigns.
. . . about Microsoft using its market dominance to price-gouge the hell out of customers. Changing the contract for large purchases who only use Microsoft Office to increase the price, for example. The customers end up just taking it because they don't see any alternative to Microsoft Office.
Sadly, there honestly isn't a great alternative in many cases. I'm a huge Open Source guy, but realistically, I still can't see a good alternative to Excel yet, for example.
But as soon as OpenOffice.org irons out a few kinks and starts building a reputation (especially for its rather good Office compatibility features), I think the market is going to drop out for Microsoft. Their licensing practises are only building enemies, even in die-hard Windows-only shops (sometimes, I think, especially in Windows-only shops), and when a lot of people realize that choice has returned to the market, they'll make a decision, and it's not going to be the one that costs $300 per license.
Actually, I believe you need Ximian Connector, a non-free piece of software (not that I have qualms about buying from Ximian), to use Evolution with Exchange.
:-) )
If you have it, you get shared calendar and whatnot.
It'd be interesting to try running Mozilla + OpenOffice + Evolution and see what people think (aside from not liking the three different UIs
May we never see th
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dead
After all, when people say "It was the average American Family", they don't mean a family that has two and a half children. They are referring to the mode, not the mean.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
One of our customers wanted us to port from Linux to AIX, due to the "unkown" factor - they were not certain about its stability and heavy load ability, plus they were concerned about their AIX-trained staff. Now, we're putting it on hold, since they are considering migrating as many as possible of their server. It seems that cheap server hardware and reduced license fees may be a bigger saving than retraining some of their AIX people would be an expense.
Stop the brainwash
Oh. They hate the old licensing scheme with a passion, too. Every time they think they are in compliance, Microsoft comes up with some demand or question.
Stop the brainwash
Maybe he's thinking about InstantDB, that was never open source but free and very useful for embedded Java systems to name but one application. InstantDB got swallowed up and dissapeared in the Lutris black hole. It is a shame that the code doesn't even seem available commercially.
David
"go on, try it, the first hit is for free sonny, you know you'll like it"
What a disgraceful advert!
-Shops run UNIX.
-Some %@$#&!^&#@ bofin cinvinces a manager to run Windows.
-Critical services become unreliabale.
-UNIX is brought back.
All competent people have Linux at home.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
YHBT.
HAND.
SMBRBDLF.
You may learn what percentages mean...
Jeezzz..
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is a percentage of sysadmins that is replacing. Doesn't say anything about the percentage of boxes that is replaced. If you've got big companies, they might have a lof of Unix boxes (who else can afford them). If they are replacing their Unix boxes they count for a few admins, but for a lot of boxes.
These figures say nothing about number of boxes, they only show some willingness to replace.
The site where: "I'm right, as long as you ignore the things that prove me wrong", became a valid method of debate.
Apple Patented the 'Switch' Commercial
www.linux.org/switch ? tone
tone
Among the crowd tech-type people, the decision to use linux is often based on the "tweakability" of the operating system, and the ability to greatly customize or alter the way the OS works (not to mention avoid crashing). However, for most home users (including myself on one of my desktops), software is definately the key.
/.'ers who can give me some advice on this?).
In particular, games would likely be the key in many cases.
If linux were to come up with a real killer app, or better yet a killer game, I think we could watch a drastic increase in desktop use. Actually, games are "partly" behind my uses of a secondary Redhat box as well, as I'm trying to get a windows-compatible VPN for network gaming purposes (any
come on! linux IS unix. saying people are switching from windows to linux at the expense of unix is like saying people are switching from windows to irix at the expense of unix. or sun's unix at the expense of unix. linux is just a variety of unix!
>2. O'Reilly did a survey and more new Mac users
>were coming from the Linux camp than anywhere
>else. From what I've seen of Apple's sales figures
>(latest 10-Q) sales are much too high to be the
>same old Mac users, the new ones are coming from
>somewhere.
So are you just parroting something you heard, or are you deluded enough to think that the "survey" you're refrencing is actually a valid metric of who's migrating from what?
The "survey" consisted of a post to a mailing list, and got only 15 responses.
Matt
Thank you, Sir! May I have another?
Love the jargon, Winkie! Good for you. Mom must be proud.
What'd you want me to do, go fund an actual scientific survey?
He means that KDE has a framework where URL prefixes (like http:// and ftp://) are handled by plugins. For example, with GPhoto2 and a kio slave plugin (sorry, no link) you can access photos stored on a digital camera with the KDE file manager. Even if they're not USB mass storage devices like most cameras nowadays.
The Cauchy isn't meaningless! ... It's fat-tailed, and has infinite mean and variance
Not meaningless. Meanless. Yes, I know that "meanless" is most commonly used on the Internet as a misspelling for "meaningless", but here I'm only stating that Cauchy has no (finite) mean.
I think that I would have answered that: "Symmetric, uni-modal distributions are like that"
Granted.
I think that any distribution which has mean, median and mode the same will be symmetric and uni-modal. If anyone can think of a counter-example, I'd certainly like to hear it.
Unimodal yes, symmetric no. Imagine the vector [2,3,3,2,5,3,2,2,3]/15 interpreted as a discrete distribution. (That is, P(0) = 2/15, P(1) = 3/15, etc.) Mean, Median, and Mode will equal 4 (P(4) = 5/15).
Will I retire or break 10K?
Wasn't difficult to convince my boss/his boss/his bosses boss either. We'd decommissioned a somewhat beefy Dell and I took it, loaded Linux Oracle 9, loaded the edatabases onto it and presented it to everyone. Linux and Oracle do fine together. You just have to show them (well, that and of course some of Larry's propaganda
hehehe That was funny :)
Hence running nothing but a name server on an expensive machine is a questionable business decision.
With decent network card/s a home linux server would make a reasonable name server for most companies - however it makes a lot more sense to have it on an existing machine that has a good reason to have an external IP address for another service.And I've been in these arguments a lot. And although there are maybe four or five Linux users out there who use it for purely technical or monetary reasons, everyone else I have talked to tends to wrap a nice tortilla of dogma around a meaty rational filling (or the other way around).
Just 'cos it's true doesn't mean it can't be a dogma.