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Microsoft Antitrust Judgement
An anonymous reader writes "Here are the links to the as-yet-unreleased judgement in the Microsoft case by CKK: Final Decree, Memorandum Opinion, Public Interest Order, Opinion on the State Settlement, State Settlement Order." In brief: Kollar-Kotelly accepts the settlement that the Federal Gov't and some states wanted, but she wants a minor change to it; and she has decided the case which was pursued by the other states as well, mostly ordering Microsoft to refrain from certain behaviors with regard to the user-visible desktop. Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only.
Microsoft Corp. anounces MS Lawyer 2k - This exciting new product translates any sentence or paragraph into pages upon pages of unintelligable lawyer speak. Vanessa Roberts, VP of Public Relations at Microsoft was quoted as saying "we have been using this product for years for our EULA's and to intimidate small competitors, we just figured it's about time we shared the wealth".
I downloaded the initial order quickly. The opinion... took a little longer... now... can't get to anything.
Congratulations people... you just slashdoted the United States of America Judicial System.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
Will look something like this: /. posting too many anti-Microsoft posts.
86% - Yeah! Linux Rules! MS Sucks!
10% - Trolls
2% - People who actually read the decisions and have something thoughtful to say
2% - People complaining about
Why bother even looking at the comments?
If a and b in c, and a can create b, and a can create a, and b can create b, and b cannot create a, then a created c.
Let us all be realistic for a moment. Will anything the Government does, change anything in the bigger picture for MS? I think not. If something was going to happen, it would have already happened. MS has too much power where it counts. And what would really happen if MS was broken into multiple companies? Would we be any better off? I think eventually superior products and services will be widely adopted and MS will lose it's stranglehold on the industry. But until that happens, I think the government is simply wasting a lot of our tax dollars that could be better spent on other things.
How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
I'll put some kind of summary text here once I've had a chance to read it.
WTF? Ok, I'll put some kind of response here after you've posted it.
Best Windows Freeware
Should this have been released before the closing of the markets? I think not... someone's head is going to roll.
STATE OF NEW YORK, et al.,
Plaintiffs
v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
Defendant.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
FINAL JUDGMENT
The Plaintiff States of California, Connecticut, Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Utah,
and West Virginia, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, having
filed their complaints in this action on May 18, 1998;
Defendant Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") having appeared and filed its answer;
The Court having entered Findings of Fact on November 5, 1999 and Conclusions of
Law on April 3, 2000;
The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit having affirmed
the District Court's finding of liability against Microsoft for violation of 2 of the Sherman Act
and the state law counterparts to 2 of the Sherman Act in the states of California, Connecticut,
Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Utah, and West Virginia, the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, and having remanded to this Court for an order of
remedy; and
Upon the record of trial and all prior and subsequent proceedings herein, it is this 1st day
of November, 2002, hereby
ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED as follows:
I. Jurisdiction
This Court has jurisdiction of the subject matter of this action and of the person of
Microsoft.
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II. Applicability
This Final Judgment applies to Microsoft and to each of its officers, directors, agents,
employees, subsidiaries, successors and assigns; and to all other persons in active concert or
participation with any of them who shall have received actual notice of this Final Judgment by
personal service or otherwise.
III. Prohibited Conduct
A. Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against an OEM by altering
Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by withholding newly introduced
forms of non-monetary Consideration (including but not limited to new versions of
existing forms of non-monetary Consideration) from that OEM, because it is known to
Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating:
1. developing, distributing, promoting, using, selling, or licensing any software that
competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that
distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware;
2. shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating
System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with
more than one Operating System; or
3. exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final
Judgment.
Nothing in this provision shall prohibit Microsoft from enforcing any provision of any license
with any OEM or any intellectual property right that is not inconsistent with this Final Judgment.
Microsoft shall not terminate a Covered OEM's license for a Windows Operating System
Product without having first given the Covered OEM written notice of the reasons for the
proposed termination and not less than thirty days' opportunity to cure. Notwithstanding the
foregoing, Microsoft shall have no obligation to provide such a termination notice and
opportunity to cure to any Covered OEM that has received two or more such notices during the
term of its Windows Operating System Product license.
Nothing in this provision shall prohibit Microsoft from providing Consideration to any OEM
with respect to any Microsoft product or service where that Consideration is commensurate with
the absolute level or amount of that OEM's development, distribution, promotion, or licensing of
that Microsoft product or service.
B. Microsoft's provision of Windows Operating System Products to Covered OEMs shall be
pursuant to uniform license agreements with uniform terms and conditions. Without
limiting the foregoing, Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty
for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by
Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs and all Covered OEMs,
that provides for uniform royalties for Windows Operating System Products, except that:
1. the schedule may specify different royalties for different language versions;
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2. the schedule may specify reasonable volume discounts based upon the actual
volume of licenses of any Windows Operating System Product or any group of
such products; and
3. the schedule may include market development allowances, programs, or other
discounts in connection with Windows Operating System Products, provided
that:
a. such discounts are offered and available uniformly to all Covered OEMs,
except that Microsoft may establish one uniform discount schedule for the
ten largest Covered OEMs and a second uniform discount schedule for the
eleventh through twentieth largest Covered OEMs, where the size of the
OEM is measured by volume of licenses;
b. such discounts are based on objective, verifiable criteria that shall be
applied and enforced on a uniform basis for all Covered OEMs; and
c. such discounts or their award shall not be based on or impose any criterion
or requirement that is otherwise inconsistent with any portion of this Final
Judgment.
C. Microsoft shall not restrict by agreement any OEM licensee from exercising any of the
following options or alternatives:
1. Installing, and displaying icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for, any Non-Microsoft
Middleware or any product or service (including but not limited to IAP products
or services) that distributes, uses, promotes, or supports any Non-Microsoft
Middleware, on the desktop or Start menu, or anywhere else in a Windows
Operating System Product where a list of icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for
applications are generally displayed, except that Microsoft may restrict an OEM
from displaying icons, shortcuts and menu entries for any product in any list of
such icons, shortcuts, or menu entries specified in the Windows documentation as
being limited to products that provide particular types of functionality, provided
that the restrictions are non-discriminatory with respect to non-Microsoft and
Microsoft products.
2. Distributing or promoting Non-Microsoft Middleware by installing and
displaying
on the desktop shortcuts of any size or shape so long as such shortcuts do not
impair the functionality of the user interface.
3. Launching automatically, at the conclusion of the initial boot sequence or
subsequent boot sequences, or upon connections to or disconnections from the
Internet, any Non-Microsoft Middleware, except that Microsoft may restrict the
launching of Non-Microsoft Middleware which replaces or drastically alters the
Windows Operating System Product user interface.
4. Offering users the option of launching other Operating Systems from the Basic
Input/Output System or a non-Microsoft boot-loader or similar program that
launches prior to the start of the Windows Operating System Product.
5. Presenting during the initial boot sequence its own IAP offer.
6. Exercising any of the options provided in Section III.H of this Final Judgment.
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D. Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,
ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating
System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar
mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product. For purposes of this Section
III.D, the term APIs means the interfaces, including any associated callback interfaces,
that Microsoft Middleware running on a Windows Operating System Product uses to call
upon that Windows Operating System Product in order to obtain any services from that
Windows Operating System Product. In the case of a new major version of Microsoft
Middleware, the disclosures required by this Section III.D shall occur no later than the
last major beta test release of that Microsoft Middleware. In the case of a new version of
a Windows Operating System Product, the obligations imposed by this Section III.D shall
occur in a Timely Manner.
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
F. 1. Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against any ISV or IHV
because of that ISV's or
IHV's:
a. developing, using, distributing, promoting or supporting any software that
competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any software that runs on
any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, or
b. exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final
Judgment.
2. Microsoft shall not enter into any agreement relating to a Windows Operating
System Product that conditions the grant of any Consideration on an ISV's
refraining from developing, using, distributing, or promoting any software that
competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any software that runs on any
software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, except that Microsoft
may enter into agreements that place limitations on an ISV's development, use,
distribution or promotion of any such software if those limitations are reasonably
necessary to and of reasonable scope and duration in relation to a bona fide
contractual obligation of the ISV to use, distribute or promote any Microsoft
software or to develop software for, or in conjunction with, Microsoft.
3. Nothing in this section shall prohibit Microsoft from enforcing any provision of
any agreement with any ISV or IHV, or any intellectual property right, that is not
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inconsistent with this Final Judgment.
G. Microsoft shall not enter into any agreement with:
1. any IAP, ICP, ISV, IHV or OEM that grants Consideration on the condition that
such entity distributes, promotes, uses, or supports, exclusively or in a fixed
percentage, any Microsoft Platform Software, except that Microsoft may enter
into agreements in which such an entity agrees to distribute, promote, use or
support Microsoft Platform Software in a fixed percentage whenever Microsoft in
good faith obtains a representation that it is commercially practicable for the
entity to provide equal or greater distribution, promotion, use or support for
software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, or
2. any IAP or ICP that grants placement on the desktop or elsewhere in any
Windows Operating System Product to that IAP or ICP on the condition that the
IAP or ICP refrain from distributing, promoting or using any software that
competes with Microsoft Middleware.
Nothing in this section shall prohibit Microsoft from entering into (a) any bona fide joint venture
or (b) any joint development or joint services arrangement with any ISV, IHV, IAP, ICP, or
OEM for a new product, technology or service, or any material value-add to an existing product,
technology or service, in which both Microsoft and the ISV, IHV, IAP, ICP, or OEM contribute
significant developer or other resources, that prohibits such entity from competing with the
object of the joint venture or other arrangement for a reasonable period of time.
This Section does not apply to any agreements in which Microsoft licenses intellectual property
from a third party and such intellectual property license is the principal purpose of the
agreement.
H. Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall:
1. Allow end users (via a mechanism readily accessible from the desktop or Start
menu such as an Add/Remove icon) and OEMs (via standard preinstallation kits)
to enable or remove access to each Microsoft Middleware Product or
Non-Microsoft Middleware Product by (a) displaying or removing icons,
shortcuts, or menu entries on the desktop or Start menu, or anywhere else in a
Windows Operating System Product where a list of icons, shortcuts, or menu
entries for applications are generally displayed, except that Microsoft may restrict
the display of icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for any product in any list of such
icons, shortcuts, or menu entries specified in the Windows documentation as
being limited to products that provide particular types of functionality, provided
that the restrictions are non-discriminatory with respect to non-Microsoft and
Microsoft products; and (b) enabling or disabling automatic invocations pursuant
to Section III.C.3 of this Final Judgment that are used to launch Non-Microsoft
Middleware Products or Microsoft Middleware Products. The mechanism shall
offer the end user a separate and unbiased choice with respect to enabling or
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removing access (as described in this subsection III.H.1) and altering default
invocations (as described in the following subsection III.H.2) with regard to each
such Microsoft Middleware Product or Non-Microsoft Middleware Product and
may offer the end-user a separate and unbiased choice of enabling or removing
access and altering default configurations as to all Microsoft Middleware
Products as a group or all Non-Microsoft Middleware Products as a group.
2. Allow end users (via an unbiased mechanism readily available from the desktop
or Start menu), OEMs (via standard OEM preinstallation kits), and
Non-Microsoft Middleware Products (via a mechanism which may, at Microsoft's
option, require confirmation from the end user in an unbiased manner) to
designate a Non-Microsoft Middleware Product to be invoked in place of that
Microsoft Middleware Product (or vice versa) in any case where the Windows
Operating System Product would otherwise launch the Microsoft Middleware
Product in a separate Top-Level Window and display either (i) all of the user
interface elements or (ii) the Trademark of the Microsoft Middleware Product.
Notwithstanding the foregoing Section III.H.2, the Windows Operating System Product may
invoke a Microsoft Middleware Product in any instance in which:
(a) that Microsoft Middleware Product would be invoked solely for use in
interoperating with a server maintained by Microsoft (outside the context
of general Web browsing), or
(b) that designated Non-Microsoft Middleware Product fails to implement a
reasonable technical requirement (e.g., a requirement to be able to host a
particular ActiveX control) that is necessary for valid technical reasons to
supply the end user with functionality consistent with a Windows
Operating System Product, provided that the technical reasons are
described in writing in a reasonably prompt manner to any ISV that
requests them.
3. Ensure that a Windows Operating System Product does not (a) automatically alter
an OEM's configuration of icons, shortcuts or menu entries installed or displayed
by the OEM pursuant to Section III.C of this Final Judgment without first seeking
confirmation from the user and (b) seek such confirmation from the end user for
an automatic (as opposed to user-initiated) alteration of the OEM's configuration
until 14 days after the initial boot up of a new Personal Computer. Any such
automatic alteration and confirmation shall be unbiased with respect to Microsoft
Middleware Products and Non-Microsoft Middleware. Microsoft shall not alter
the manner in which a Windows Operating System Product automatically alters
an OEM's configuration of icons, shortcuts or menu entries other than in a new
version of a Windows Operating System Product.
Microsoft's obligations under this Section III.H as to any new Windows Operating System
Product shall be determined based on the Microsoft Middleware Products which exist seven
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months prior to the last beta test version (i.e., the one immediately preceding the first release
candidate) of that Windows Operating System Product.
I. Microsoft shall offer to license to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs, ICPs, and OEMs any intellectual
property rights owned or licensable by Microsoft that are required to exercise any of the
options or alternatives expressly provided to them under this Final Judgment, provided
that
1. all terms, including royalties or other payment of monetary consideration, are
reasonable and non-discriminatory;
2. the scope of any such license (and the intellectual property rights licensed
thereunder) need be no broader than is necessary to ensure that an ISV, IHV, IAP,
ICP or OEM is able to exercise the options or alternatives expressly provided
under this Final Judgment (e.g., an ISV's, IHV's, IAP's, ICP's and OEM's option
to promote Non-Microsoft Middleware shall not confer any rights to any
Microsoft intellectual property rights infringed by that Non-Microsoft
Middleware);
3. an ISV's, IHV's, IAP's, ICP's, or OEM's rights may be conditioned on its not
assigning, transferring or sublicensing its rights under any license granted under
this provision; and
4. the terms of any license granted under this section are in all respects consistent
with the express terms of this Final Judgment.
Beyond the express terms of any license granted by Microsoft pursuant to this section, this Final
Judgment does not, directly or by implication, estoppel or otherwise, confer any rights, licenses,
covenants or immunities with regard to any Microsoft intellectual property to anyone.
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
2. Prevent Microsoft from conditioning any license of any API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol related to anti-piracy systems, anti-virus technologies,
license enforcement mechanisms, authentication/authorization security, or third
party intellectual property protection mechanisms of any Microsoft product to any
person or entity on the requirement that the licensee: (a) has no history of
software counterfeiting or piracy or willful violation of intellectual property
rights, (b) has a reasonable business need for the API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol for a planned or shipping product, (c) meets
reasonable, objective standards established by Microsoft for certifying the
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authenticity and viability of its business, (d) agrees to submit, at its own expense,
any computer program using such APIs, Documentation or Communication
Protocols to third-party verification, approved by Microsoft, to test for and ensure
verification and compliance with Microsoft specifications for use of the API or
interface, which specifications shall be related to proper operation and integrity of
the systems and mechanisms identified in this paragraph.
IV. Compliance and Enforcement Procedures
A. Enforcement Authority
1. The Plaintiffs shall have exclusive responsibility for enforcing this Final
Judgment. Without in any way limiting the sovereign enforcement authority of
each of the plaintiff States, the plaintiff States shall form a committee to
coordinate their enforcement of this Final Judgment. A plaintiff State shall take
no action to enforce this Final Judgment without first consulting the plaintiff
States' enforcement committee.
2. To determine and enforce compliance with this Final Judgment, duly authorized
representatives of the plaintiff States, on reasonable notice to Microsoft and
subject to any lawful privilege, shall be permitted the following:
a. Access during normal office hours to inspect any and all source code,
books, ledgers, accounts, correspondence, memoranda and other
documents and records in the possession, custody, or control of Microsoft,
which may have counsel present, regarding any matters contained in this
Final Judgment.
b. Subject to the reasonable convenience of Microsoft and without restraint
or interference from it, to interview, informally or on the record, officers,
employees, or agents of Microsoft, who may have counsel present,
regarding any matters contained in this Final Judgment.
c. Upon written request of a duly designated representative of a plaintiff
State, on reasonable notice given to Microsoft, Microsoft shall submit
such written reports under oath as requested regarding any matters
contained in this Final Judgment.
Individual plaintiff States will consult with the plaintiff States' enforcement committee to
minimize the duplication and burden of the exercise of the foregoing powers, where practicable.
3. The Plaintiffs shall not disclose any information or documents obtained from
Microsoft under this Final Judgment except for the purpose of securing
compliance with this Final Judgment, in a legal proceeding to which one or more
of the Plaintiffs is a party, or as otherwise required by law; provided that the
relevant Plaintiff(s) must provide ten days' advance notice to Microsoft before
disclosing in any legal proceeding (other than a grand jury proceeding) to which
Microsoft is not a party any information or documents provided by Microsoft
pursuant to this Final Judgment which Microsoft has identified in writing as
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material as to which a claim of protection may be asserted under Rule 26(c)(7) of
the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
4. The Plaintiffs shall have the authority to seek such orders as are necessary from
the Court to enforce this Final Judgment, provided, however, that the Plaintiffs
shall afford Microsoft a reasonable opportunity to cure alleged violations of
Sections III.C, III.D, III.E and III.H, provided further that any action by Microsoft
to cure any such violation shall not be a defense to enforcement with respect to
any knowing, willful or systematic violations.
B. 1. Compliance Committee. Within 30 days of entry of this Final Judgment,
Microsoft shall establish a compliance committee (the "Compliance Committee")
of its Board of Directors, consisting of at least three members of the Board of
Directors who are not present or former employees of Microsoft.
2. Compliance Officer. The Compliance Committee shall hire a Compliance Officer,
who shall report directly to the Compliance Committee and to the Chief
Executive Officer of Microsoft. The Compliance Officer shall be responsible for
development and supervision of Microsoft's internal programs to ensure
compliance with the antitrust laws and this Final Judgment. Microsoft shall give
the Compliance Officer all necessary authority and resources to discharge the
responsibilities listed herein.
3. Duties of Compliance Officer. The Compliance Officer shall:
a. within 60 days after entry of this Final Judgment, arrange for delivery to
all officers and directors of Microsoft a copy of this Final Judgment
together with additional informational materials describing the conduct
prohibited and required by this Final Judgment;
b. arrange for delivery in a timely manner of a copy of this Final Judgment
and such additional informational materials to any person who succeeds to
a position described in Section IV.B.3.a above;
c. ensure that those persons described in subsection c.i above are annually
briefed on the meaning and requirements of this Final Judgment and the
United States antitrust laws and advising them that Microsoft's legal
advisors are available to confer with them regarding any question
concerning compliance with this Final Judgment or under the United
States antitrust laws;
d. obtain from each person described in Section IV.B.3.a within 60 days of
entry of this Final Judgment and annually thereafter, and for each person
thereafter succeeding to such a position within 10 days of such succession
and annually thereafter, a written certification that he or she: (i) has read,
understands, and agrees to abide by the terms of, and has to their
knowledge not violated, this Final Judgment; and (ii) has been advised and
understands that his or her failure to comply with this Final Judgment may
result in a finding of contempt of court;
e. maintain a record of persons to whom this Final Judgment has been
distributed and from whom, pursuant to Section V.B.3.d above has been
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obtained;
f. on an annual basis, certify to the Plaintiffs that Microsoft is fully
compliant with this Final Judgment;
g. maintain a record of all complaints received and action taken by Microsoft
with respect to each such complaint; and
g. report promptly to the Plaintiffs any credible evidence of violation of this
Final Judgment.
4. The Compliance Officer may be removed only by the Chief Executive Officer
with the concurrence of the Compliance Committee.
V. Termination
A. Unless this Court grants an extension, this Final Judgment will expire on the fifth
anniversary of the date on which it takes effect.
B. In any enforcement proceeding in which the Court has found that Microsoft has engaged
in a pattern of willful and systematic violations, the Plaintiffs may apply to the Court for
a one-time extension of this Final Judgment of up to two years, together with such other
relief as the Court may deem appropriate.
VI. Definitions
A. "API" means application programming interface, including any interface that Microsoft
is obligated to disclose pursuant to III.D.
B. "Communications Protocol" means the set of rules for information exchange to
accomplish predefined tasks between a Windows Operating System Product and a server
operating system product connected via a network, including, but not limited to, a local
area network, a wide area network or the Internet. These rules govern the format,
semantics, timing, sequencing, and error control of messages exchanged over a network.
C. "Consideration" means any monetary payment or the provision of preferential licensing
terms; technical, marketing, and sales support; enabling programs; product information;
information about future plans; developer support; hardware or software certification or
approval; or permission to display trademarks, icons or logos.
D. "Covered OEMs" means the 20 OEMs with the highest worldwide volume of licenses of
Windows Operating System Products reported to Microsoft in Microsoft's fiscal year
preceding the effective date of the Final Judgment. The OEMs that fall within this
definition of Covered OEMs shall be recomputed by Microsoft as soon as practicable
after the close of each of Microsoft's fiscal years.
E. "Documentation" means all information regarding the identification and means of using
APIs that a person of ordinary skill in the art requires to make effective use of those
11
APIs. Such information shall be of the sort and to the level of specificity, precision and
detail that Microsoft customarily provides for APIs it documents in the Microsoft
Developer Network ("MSDN").
F. "IAP" means an Internet access provider that provides consumers with a connection to
the Internet, with or without its own proprietary content.
G. "ICP" means an Internet content provider that provides content to users of the Internet by
maintaining Web sites.
H. "IHV" means an independent hardware vendor that develops hardware to be included in
or used with a Personal Computer running a Windows Operating System Product.
I. "ISV" means an entity other than Microsoft that is engaged in the development or
marketing of software products.
J. "Microsoft Middleware" means software code that
1. Microsoft distributes separately from a Windows Operating System Product to
update that Windows Operating System Product;
2. is Trademarked or is marketed by Microsoft as a major version of any Microsoft
Middleware Product defined in section VI.K.1; and
3. provides the same or substantially similar functionality as a Microsoft
Middleware Product.
Microsoft Middleware shall include at least the software code that controls most or all
of the user interface elements of that Microsoft Middleware. Software code described as part of,
and distributed separately to update, a Microsoft Middleware Product shall not be deemed
Microsoft Middleware unless identified as a new major version of that Microsoft Middleware
Product. A major version shall be identified by a whole number or by a number with just a single
digit to the right of the decimal point.
K. "Microsoft Middleware Product" means
1. the functionality provided by Internet Explorer, Microsoft's Java Virtual
Machine, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, Outlook Express and
their successors in a Windows Operating System Product, and
2. for any functionality that is first licensed, distributed or sold by Microsoft after
the entry of this Final Judgment and that is part of any Windows Operating
System Product
a. Internet browsers, email client software, networked audio/video client
software, instant messaging software or
b. functionality provided by Microsoft software that --
i. is, or in the year preceding the commercial release of any new
Windows Operating System Product was, distributed separately by
Microsoft (or by an entity acquired by Microsoft) from a Windows
Operating System Product;
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ii. is similar to the functionality provided by a Non-Microsoft
Middleware Product; and
iii. is Trademarked.
Functionality that Microsoft describes or markets as being part of a Microsoft Middleware
Product (such as a service pack, upgrade, or bug fix for Internet Explorer), or that is a version of
a Microsoft Middleware Product (such as Internet Explorer 5.5), shall be considered to be part of
that Microsoft Middleware Product.
L. "Microsoft Platform Software" means (i) a Windows Operating System Product and/or
(ii) a Microsoft Middleware Product.
M. "Non-Microsoft Middleware" means a non-Microsoft software product running on a
Windows Operating System Product that exposes a range of functionality to ISVs
through published APIs, and that could, if ported to or made interoperable with, a non-
Microsoft Operating System, thereby make it easier for applications that rely in whole or
in part on the functionality supplied by that software product to be ported to or run on
that non-Microsoft Operating System.
N. "Non-Microsoft Middleware Product" means a non-Microsoft software product running
on a Windows Operating System Product (i) that exposes a range of functionality to ISVs
through published APIs, and that could, if ported to or made interoperable with, a
non-Microsoft Operating System, thereby make it easier for applications that rely in
whole or in part on the functionality supplied by that software product to be ported to or
run on that non-Microsoft Operating System, and (ii) of which at least one million copies
were distributed in the United States within the previous year.
O. "OEM" means an original equipment manufacturer of Personal Computers that is a
licensee of a Windows Operating System Product.
P. "Operating System" means the software code that, inter alia, (i) controls the allocation
and usage of hardware resources (such as the microprocessor and various peripheral
devices) of a Personal Computer, (ii) provides a platform for developing applications by
exposing functionality to ISVs through APIs, and (iii) supplies a user interface that
enables users to access functionality of the operating system and in which they can run
applications.
Q. "Personal Computer" means any computer configured so that its primary purpose is for
use by one person at a time, that uses a video display and keyboard (whether or not that
video display and keyboard is included) and that contains an Intel x86 compatible (or
successor) microprocessor. Servers, television set top boxes, handheld computers, game
consoles, telephones, pagers, and personal digital assistants are examples of products that
are not Personal Computers within the meaning of this definition.
R. "Timely Manner" means at the time Microsoft first releases a beta test version of a
Windows Operating System Product that is made available via an MSDN subscription
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offering or of which 150,000 or more beta copies are distributed.
S. "Top-Level Window" means a window displayed by a Windows Operating System
Product that (a) has its own window controls, such as move, resize, close, minimize, and
maximize, (b) can contain sub-windows, and (c) contains user interface elements under
the control of at least one independent process.
T. "Trademarked" means distributed in commerce and identified as distributed by a name
other than Microsoft® or Windows® that Microsoft has claimed as a trademark or
service mark by (i) marking the name with trademark notices, such as ® or (TM), in
connection with a product distributed in the United States; (ii) filing an application for
trademark protection for the name in the United States Patent and Trademark Office; or
(iii) asserting the name as a trademark in the United States in a demand letter or lawsuit.
Any product distributed under descriptive or generic terms or a name comprised of the
Microsoft® or Windows® trademarks together with descriptive or generic terms shall not
be Trademarked as that term is used in this Final Judgment. Microsoft hereby disclaims
any trademark rights in such descriptive or generic terms apart from the Microsoft® or
Windows® trademarks, and hereby abandons any such rights that it may acquire in the
future.
U. "Windows Operating System Product" means the software code (as opposed to source
code) distributed commercially by Microsoft for use with Personal Computers as
Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP Home, Windows XP Professional, and
successors to the foregoing, including the Personal Computer versions of the products
currently code named "Longhorn" and "Blackcomb" and their successors, including
upgrades, bug fixes, service packs, etc. The software code that comprises a Windows
Operating System Product shall be determined by Microsoft in its sole discretion.
VII. Further Elements
Jurisdiction is retained by this Court over this action such that the Court may act sua sponte to
issue further orders or directions, including but not limited to orders or directions relating to the
construction or carrying out of this Final Judgment, the enforcement of compliance therewith,
the modification thereof, and the punishment of any violation thereof.
Jurisdiction is retained by this Court over this action and the parties thereto for the purpose of
enabling the parties to this action to apply to this Court at any time for further orders and
directions as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out or construe this Final Judgment, to
modify or terminate any of its provisions, to enforce compliance, and to punish violations of its
provisions.
Unless otherwise indicated, the provisions of this Final Judgment shall take effect 30 days after
the date on which it is entered.
In accordance with the imposition and affirmance of liability, the Plaintiff States shall submit a
14
motion for the award of costs and fees, with supporting documents as necessary, not later than 45
days after the entry of this Final Judgment.
VIII. Third Party Rights
Nothing in this Final Judgment is intended to confer upon any other persons any rights or
remedies of any nature whatsoever hereunder or by reason of this Final Judgment.
SO ORDERED.
_____________________________
COLLEEN KOLLAR-KOTELLY
United States District Judge
"... based upon the detailed analysis set forth in the record of United States v. Microsoft Corp., No. 98-1232, the Court finds that, with the exception of the reservation of jurisdiction, the SRPFJ is fair, reasonable, and in the public interest."
"...The Court suggests that the public interest would be served if Microsoft and the parties to the settlement would agree to amend the proposed final judgment to reserve for the Court, in addition to the powers presently specified in the proposed final judgment, the power sua sponte to issue orders or directions for the construction or carrying out of the final judgment, for the enforcement of compliance therewith, and for the punishment of any violation thereof. Such an amendment would not appear to work a fundamental change to the parties' agreement and would ensure that the Court retains the power intended by Plaintiffs and which the Court considers necessary to ensure effective implementation of the final judgment in this case."
"Based on the foregoing, the Court conditionally approves the SRPFJ as the final judgment as to the claims of the Plaintiff Settling States in the above-captioned case. The Court will enter final judgment upon receipt of a proposed decree which reflects the amendment described above. Such amendment shall be filed in writing with the Court not later than November 8, 2002. An appropriate Order accompanies this Memorandum Opinion."
It looks like they'll have to drastically open up their middleware for third party replacements. Very interesting.
This is going to give them fits to change in only 3 months though.
Is /. allowed to post a story before even Matt Drudge gets his grubby little hands on it?
Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten against an OEM by altering Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by witholding newly introduced forms of non-monetary Consideration.
Does that mean that they can't screw over OEM's that include alternative operating systems preinstalled anymore?
when the court ruling is released.
http://www.mugshots.net/bill_gates/
Enter MSFT at the top right of this page. ($ 52.54 at 3:42 pm).
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
It LOOKS like a wrist-slap to me. They have to allow "middleware" and have to disclose "Communications protocols and APIs", except where it would affect 3rd-party IP or "security".
I think it is an attempt to provide some kind of flexibility but "restrain" them, but the Judge is obviously forgetting history: Microsoft is the Harry Houdini of legal agreements, they can wriggle out of anything.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Ooh, it's like that goofy Reuters 'hacking' thing.
I'm not saying this is unethical - I think it clearly isn't - but mightn't it have been polite to sit on this until the stock market closed, or at least until just before it closed?
Microsft is guilty.
Microsoft must play fair under set conditions.
Microsoft can still restrict access, hide APIs and set up questionable business practices under the guise of protecting "security, anti-virus, licensing, authentication and Digital Rights"
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
...with the exception that they would like both parties to agree to have the court oversee the implementation of the judgement. IANAL, but it seems that basically the court said that the original penalty was fair, but that the concern about M$ having large oversight of the implementation of the penalty was valid as well. Not sure where that leaves us.
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate." - Cool Hand Luke
I just got doen reading it and after going through the legalese,
1) it seemed mainly aimed at the OEM market. Saying that MS can't puinsh them for using other software with windows or even dual booting.
2) the only other thing of interest was that they are supposed to open up any communication protocol that is needed in windows (SMB for instance).
3) later on there is this though
"J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction."
so pretty much I think it's a slap on th wrist. maybe some more developers and lawyers can comment.
"I drank what?" - Socrates
A quick glance at the State Settlement and Final Judgement makes it appear that CKK has accepted the proposed settlement between the Federal government, the 9 states, and MS.
IANAL, and I only scanned the top few pages for information. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
. . Did you, at any time in your life, invest in a Ford Pinto? . . .
Read further.
Microsoft will be able to hide APIs, protocols or whatever for various reasons related to security, DRM, authentication, etc.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
This lawsuit has taken four years. I think five years, even with the possiblity of an extension is way too short.
And just because I thought it was interesting, here's the definition of an OS:If you blog it...
Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,
ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating
System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar
mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product.
This is actually a big deal.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
- Anything that compromises security (anti-piracy, DRM, anti-virus, licensing, encryption, authentication).
- Anything the US government allows them to keep hidden
So how much can they get away with with the fairly loose requirements of the first point?I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
Ity says they have to disclose all protocols that are currently in use in their products. however, it says they can choose their 'reasonable and non-discriminatory terms' to make them available under. To Microsoft, that means they will release them under terms that disallow use in a GPL product - therefore eleiminating their only real competition. (they recently offered SMB under a license that disallows GPL - the developers of Samba won't even log in (thorugh Passport) and look at the code, since MS will then probably subsequently sue them for infringement)
Thanks to the Judge and The Cheney administration for this bullshit of a judgement.
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
The big question is, can Samba benefit from this, or are the conditions of the released information going to make it incompatible with the GPL? And can the information be dirty/clean intellectually transferred between one tainted person and one "clean" person even with whatever type of NDA they put on the agreement?
But this is different: /. posted the story before anyone else posted anything (I just went and looked at a bunch of sources, and the story isn't out yet as of this writing). OMG: /. doing actual journalism!
Must be a sign of the Apocalypse :-)
Crispin
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc.
Immunix: Security Hardened Linux Distribution
Available for purchase
I assume this to mean that the Samba guys will get legal access to the SMB protocol specs and other related stuff. Likely could include the native Exchange server protocols too, since Outlook Express talks that protocol and has shipped integrated with the OS.
11*43+456^2
MS cannot retaliate or threaten to retaliate against an OEM because the OEM is thinking about developing, distributing, promoting, using, selling, or licensing any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware.
They also cannot retaliate against them for including a computer with 2 OSes (notably missing is the provision against retaliating due to not installing an MS OS)
MS must provide a uniform license agreement and fee schedule for all it's OEMs, with only a few exceptions.
MS will not restrict in the license agreement installing any other icons or programs on the desktop, distrbuting or promoting non-MS browsers/e-mail readers/media players &c. They also cannot restrict the automatic launching of any 'middleware' (browsers, e-mail readers, media players.)
OEMs may offer users multiple OSes on one machine without retaliation from MS.
Open APIs for any 'middleware' to fully interface with the OS like MS' own 'middleware' does. (This is a big one)
MS must also release any communication protocol necessary to communicate with a MS server OS.
MS cannot retaliate or threaten retaliation against any vendor for developing or selling things that compete with them.
"Set Program Access and Defaults" is required.
In addition, the users must be able to enable or disable any automatic launching of MS 'middleware'.
End-users and non-MS 'middleware' products must be able to transparently replace the MS 'middleware'.
An MS OS cannot modify or alter anything that an OEM does to the desktop without first getting confirmation from the user.
HOWEVER:
No provision of the agreement forces MS to disclose anything that might hurt the OS security. (This is very vague and I predict will be the biggest loophole.)
--
I haven't read the rest of the decree, I just wanted to get this up. And IANAL, but I think the interpretations I've provided are reasonable.
No, they don't have to open all the API's. In fact they get to keep anything related to anti-piracy, DRM and most other security related items. How much do you want to bet a lot of stuff is now going to have security tied into it sooner rather than later?
And this is only effective for 5 years. What happens after that?
...competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware;
:-)
2. shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with more than one Operating System; or
So I think this is the first nail in Palladium's coffin. This legalese seems to imply that Microsoft is barred of collusion with OEMs that would block middleware or OSs that would compete with Microsoft. Which is, at the core, EXACTLY what Palladium would do.
Nice to see that the DoJ can kill two birds with one stone.
blog |
to deliver a few hundred characters of ASCII. By delivering these judgments (and there are gazillions of those in the site) in some more sensible (and at the same time more user friendly) format they could probably order everyone a free pizza instead for spending it on bandwith. It's just incredibly stupid to download stuff in more than *20 excess size and to launch a and need an external program to view the content. Hey, but it's official it got to be PDF!
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
Defendant.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Civil Action No. 98-1232 (CKK)
ORDER
Presently pending before the Court is a proposed consent decree submitted by the parties
in the above-captioned case. Following application of the Tunney Act, 15 U.S.C. 16(b)-(h), and
upon a finding pursuant 15 U.S.C. 16(e) that, with the exception of VII of the proposed final
judgment ("SRPFJ"), entry of the SRPFJ as the final judgment in this action is in the public
interest, as set forth in the accompanying Memorandum Opinion, it is this 1st day of November,
2002, hereby
ORDERED that the SRPFJ is conditionally approved as the final judgment in this case;
and it is further
ORDERED that, in order to obtain final approval of the SRPFJ, Plaintiff and Microsoft
shall submit to the Court a proposed amendment to VII addressing the concerns described in the
accompanying Memorandum Opinion; and it is further
ORDERED that such proposed amendment shall be submitted to the Court not later than
November 8, 2002.
SO ORDERED.
_____________________________
COLLEEN KOLLAR-KOTELLY
United States District Judge
A. Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against an OEM by altering Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by withholding newly introduced forms of non-monetary Consideration (including but not limited to new versions of existing forms of non-monetary Consideration) from that OEM, because it is known to Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating...exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final Judgment.
Wow, how many times have we heard of companies complaining about just this thing happening to them? I hope this legislation does improve the computer market...
However, I worry on one point. The judgement states "...known to Microsoft that the OEM..." What if it isn't known to Microsoft, but it is merely suspected by Microsoft? That technicality would give Microsoft pre-emptive monopolistic powers which wouldn't be restricted by this settlement.
$8.95/mo web hosting
Take SMB for instance. The Samba project is working on Version 3.0 which will allow full integration with Active Directory. However, since a large part of this is authentication MS could use this provision to deny access to the API's that would make Samba completely compatible.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
Sheesh....there had to be catch...
Any bets on how long it'll take microsoft to declare the whole OS a rights protection management system so they don't have to give up any of the API?
-PARANOIA is fun. D20 is not fun. The Computer says so.
-The Computer
Oh. That sounds like a good one. All Microsoft has to do is hide their IP under shill companies, and they've got instant protection. ...and don't think they won't do it if it is an issue.
What if you have two things?
Better to understand one Thing than clueless about two. -- Anonymous Coward
Help fight continental drift.
The readers of slashdot were not the _only_ people anticipating the judgement. Every news organization + people in the financial industry + millions of shareholders are also following the story.
Oh, and maybe the people working at Microsoft cared a little too.
I find it humorous to see Slashdot constantly bashing Microsoft. Some of it is deserved but just as much is juvenile ranting. However, I'm deeply entertained to see a Microsoft ad regularly popping up on Slashdot and other OSDN sites. It used to be a rare thing to see that but now I see it on every third or fourth page.
Has Slashdot reached a point where the only way they can afford to continually rant against Microsoft is by accepting money from them?
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
They could slap that on just about anything!
Now THAT'S a good way to retain investor confidence. 10 minutes before markets closed too. Not a good pr move, if anything. It makes it seem like they're really scared.
Looks to me like M$ will finally be motivated to document it's APIs. Now the question is will M$ still do a click thru before you can read the documentation?
"D. Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,
ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating
System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar
mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product. For purposes of this Section
III.D, the term APIs means the interfaces, including any associated callback interfaces,
that Microsoft Middleware running on a Windows Operating System Product uses to call
upon that Windows Operating System Product in order to obtain any services from that
Windows Operating System Product. In the case of a new major version of Microsoft
Middleware, the disclosures required by this Section III.D shall occur no later than the
last major beta test release of that Microsoft Middleware. In the case of a new version of
a Windows Operating System Product, the obligations imposed by this Section III.D shall
occur in a Timely Manner."
The States will form a committee and get to look at all MS code, documents, etc, etc as relating to the decree and MS must get a compliance officer too.
MS has to disclose apis,protocols but not those which would compramise security, licences, IP, drm, etc to businesses. I guess that might include book publishers so they'll be pretty much open, I think.
There will be bickering b/c of overlapping. Not sure how they'll settle that kind of thing.
OEMs cannot be discriminated against for selling linux/non-ms boxen. (Yippi!)
OEMs can add their own icons, etc.
users/OEMs can add/remove MS "middleware" via start button.
That is my quick read summary!
I missed lots of stuff no doubt.
Looks like the ruling is not in MS's favour to me.
Cheers,
-b
I respect your opinion for saying so, but I detest Microsoft for almost the same reasons you like them.
Microsoft has done absolutely NOTHING to make my life easier; in fact, they've done just the opposite. I'm FORCED into working with their products at work; in fact in ANY work place I would go to. There is no choice, I can't simply "avoid" them. At home, I'm -almost- forced to endure the Microsoft legacy--klunky PC hardware (although Mac OSX gives me reason for joy). For a DECADE or more any real alternatives have been squelched and killed by Microsoft.
If I could avoid them, I would. But I can't. It's pretty much impossible. That's why I despise them. When I got into computing, it was a world full of possibility and wonder. In 10 short years it has been reduced to a smoking ruin, ruled over by a despot. Computing is NOT fun anymore, and Microsoft is the reason.
My God! It's full of Voids!
Stop cheerleading for michael. I mean, all of your posts on this thread are saying how great /. is doing, and how great michael is by posting a substanceless link summary.
/. is not doing. They are reporting links to events.
Maybe you need to go learn what journalism is, I'll give you a hint, it's not sending out a few links to a few hundred thousand people. It's, get ready for this, reporting. Reporting the events of history pertinent to your viewer base, which
So please, and I mean this as nice as possible, but stop mindlessly cheerleading and learn what journalism and reporting means.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs, ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
As I read this, that means that you or I (or the Samba team) will not get to see those APIs.
Transcript show: self sigs atRandom.
Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux. Thus anything in this settlement that helps or hinders Linux is what's going to make a real difference in competition. Reading through the settlement, Linux cannot take advantage of any of this.
To summarize, there are several clauses about opening up the API's and protocols. This openess must be provided to OEM's, etc, on a "reasonable and non-discriminatory basis". This "reasonable and non-discrimantor" rule allows for charging of royalties and restricting distribution and sub-licensing of the intellectual property. So even if they provide this information at no cost or minimal cost they can make it impossible for any such information to every make it into GPL software.
So folks, I hope you enjoyed have your tax dollars flushed down a toilet.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
The original proposed settlement on the surface seemed to be a solution but it has so many loopholes to be almost worthless. This settlement seems to be or be based on the original proposed settlement. Are any of the loopholes originally present still there or have they been eliminated?
I noticed that the security exception is still there, what about the others?
representatives of the plaintiff States, on reasonable notice to Microsoft and
subject to any lawful privilege, shall be permitted the following:
Wow, wouldn't we want to be on a States duly authorized represantative for our state? Call you congressman and then call Microsoft and say "Show me the code!!!!"
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Technobabble meets Lawyer speak and makes totally incomprehensible language.
Granted, what I did understand looks good to me.
Question: When will we get a compiler to spit out java bytecode for this decision and install the new version into the Microsoft Corporate App Server? Because frankly, expecting a human being to follow this judgement is just as good as expecting a human being to parse parallel super computer algorithms in their head. Sure there are a few people who can do it, but they probably have better things to do with their time. At least I hope that they do.
Its a real shame that the judgement wasnt just this:
"PLAY NICE"
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Well, "actual journalism" is relative. Matt Drudge has broken a lot of stories, including Monica Lewinsky, but it's still a bit of a stretch to call him a "journalist" (at least without the modifier of "gonzo" or "yellow".)
Finding God in a Dog
If you want to make something of it heres the intraday view of msft at
yahoo
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
This is the best part. There's a standard schedule for costs for everyone. You can't brown-nose Microsoft and get special deals, and Microsoft can't punish you by raising your costs for licenses.
You buy licenses at the same rate as everyone else (who buys in the same quantities for the same languages as you do).
This means that if Dell is the largest buyer of MS Licenses, it doesn't matter what they do, they get the cheapest rate. Likewise, any company that buys 2,000 Windows licenses gets the same rate, whether they are MS Fanboys or Sun Microsystems.
Of course, a big "in theory" is added to all this.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
They can still hide API calls if they feel that it might effect security!
"Okay, we are here to decide which API calls to disclose... Let's look at the first one..."
"Hmmm.. This looks like a dangerous one to disclose.. If we disclose this one our competition will be able to make products that work as well as our products do with Windows. We would loose sales and that would take away revenue. With out the revenue we won't be able to hire as many software engineers. With out the engineers our products will be less secure..."
"Okay no on the first one. Next API..."
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Fuck.
Nope, no sig
The language in the new ruling states that Microsoft must publish a standard schedule of fees for all OEMs. The former loophole should be effectively eliminated.
The SRPFJ is the "States recommendation for proposed final judgement", or something like that. So it seems to have been passed, along WITH the DOJ's (see FinalDecree.pdf), with the condition by November 8th they combine all of the restrictions into one document.
That seems to be everything we could have hoped for. The DOJs settlement was tissuepaper weak, but with the States' remedies included, it may be worthwhile.
I can't locate the states submission to see exactly what their remedies are.
"Nothing in this Final Judgement is intended to confer upon any other persons any rights or remedies of any nature whatsoever hereunder or by reason of this Final Judgement."
Meaning...we, the average citizens, still don't get squat.
1. Installing, and displaying icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for, any Non-Microsoft
Middleware or any product or service (including but not limited to IAP products
or services) that distributes, uses, promotes, or supports any Non-Microsoft
Middleware, on the desktop or Start menu, or anywhere else in a Windows
Operating System Product where a list of icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for
applications are generally displayed, except that Microsoft may restrict an OEM
from displaying icons, shortcuts and menu entries for any product in any list of
such icons, shortcuts, or menu entries specified in the Windows documentation as
being limited to products that provide particular types of functionality, provided
that the restrictions are non-discriminatory with respect to non-Microsoft and
Microsoft products.
So, I'm an OEM that is trying to make a name as "The Scientists' OEM" or some such thing. Microsoft doesn't make a suite of tools for measuring volcanic or platonic shifts and vibrations, or whatever. So does that mean that Microsoft can tell me (the OEM) that I can't put icons and shortcuts for all the scientific tools I'm trying to push as value-add as the OEM?
put the what in the where?
I know I sound like a MS shill most every time I post, but even though I generally defend Windows, IE, .NET, MSSQL server, etc., I've always been very crtical about MS's OEM licensing. Although I honestly don't believe that 1-4yrs ago BeOS or Linux had a chance even IF people baught dual booted Dells, however, I think that a product should be successful based SOLEY ON MERIT and not strong-armed contracts. I'm glad that what I've read so far prohibits this kind of behavior, and I hope to read more about punishment.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I mean we knew they weren't getting broken up, and we know that this isn't the end of Anti-MS litigation, but is the big iceberg over?
And can we all move on with our lives now?
Schnapple
Remember, they CAN withold information pertaining to antivirus, DRM, and anti-piracy measures. And a lawyer can easily argue this covers 100% of Palladium's "ideas"
I wish it did mean goodbye though.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Reuters continues to beat the hell out of
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
"Here are the links to the as-yet-unreleased judgement..."
/. editors can now claim a first-post themselves.
Wow! This puts a whole new meaning to "first-post".
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
Sorry, I guess nobody ever told you. Microsoft is a company so big and powerful that it's called a "monopoly." The effect that monopolies have on the economy are usually seen as negative due to high pricing and the lack of innovation that healthy competition can provide.
When the tide turns against the monopoly for us, the consumers, it's great news that most people will want to read. Especially those that are on Slashdot and openly interested in things related to technology companies.Considering the percentage of the people on Slashdot that use Windows on their main machine, Microsoft news would make more of a difference to the /. crowd than Linux news.
-Lucas
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Perhaps, but any ISV that works on Samba will have access. Further, it should be quite easy for the Samba team to organize as a not-for-profit corporation to qualify as an ISV if they do not already.
More worrisome is the RAND licensing provision.
It seems strange that they can hide details related to security. Open source software has proven that a system can show every implementation detail without becoming insecure. I'm not saying that I support the actions against MS, but something smells funny. It would be sad if every version of Windows had giant security holes that would be revealed if the implementation details were made public.
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
Not only that, but it looks like she imposed it on the Dissenting 9 as well!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
If you actually wanted to capitalize on it in the stock market, maybe you should've been calling your broker at 3:59 pm EST instead of posting on /.
they wanted to test out the new /. servers, this big story is the way to do it.
Runnin' On Empty
This reasonable and nondiscriminatory language is EXACTLY the same as the RAND patent fee language we all hated so much in a recent W3C proposal.
If this is indeed the final determination, then it's basically a court-order for Microsoft to help everyone *except* free software projects.
It's almost worse than before.
Start quote:
---
11
J. "Microsoft Middleware" means software code that
1. Microsoft distributes separately from a Windows Operating System Product to
update that Windows Operating System Product;
2. is Trademarked or is marketed by Microsoft as a major version of any Microsoft
Middleware Product defined in section VI.K.1; and
3. provides the same or substantially similar functionality as a Microsoft
Middleware Product.
Microsoft Middleware shall include at least the software code that controls most or all
of the user interface elements of that Microsoft Middleware. Software code described as part of,
and distributed separately to update, a Microsoft Middleware Product shall not be deemed
Microsoft Middleware unless identified as a new major version of that Microsoft Middleware
Product. A major version shall be identified by a whole number or by a number with just a single
digit to the right of the decimal point.
K. "Microsoft Middleware Product" means
1. the functionality provided by Internet Explorer, Microsoft's Java Virtual
Machine, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, Outlook Express and
their successors in a Windows Operating System Product, and
2. for any functionality that is first licensed, distributed or sold by Microsoft after
the entry of this Final Judgment and that is part of any Windows Operating
System Product
a. Internet browsers, email client software, networked audio/video client
software, instant messaging software or
b. functionality provided by Microsoft software that --
i. is, or in the year preceding the commercial release of any new
Windows Operating System Product was, distributed separately by
Microsoft (or by an entity acquired by Microsoft) from a Windows
Operating System Product;
ii. is similar to the functionality provided by a Non-Microsoft
Middleware Product; and
iii. is Trademarked.
Functionality that Microsoft describes or markets as being part of a Microsoft Middleware
Product (such as a service pack, upgrade, or bug fix for Internet Explorer), or that is a version of
a Microsoft Middleware Product (such as Internet Explorer 5.5), shall be considered to be part of
that Microsoft Middleware Product.
---
End of Quote
So it covers most of the stuff Microsoft is currently trying to pass off as Integral to the system, and they're at least trying to make an effort to indentifying future middleware. It depends on how vigiliant the Committee is going to be...
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
:)
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
Sweet! Interoperability here we come!
put the what in the where?
I actually just finished an article on my website about why I will not support microsoft by purchasing or stealing copies of their software. I stand strongly behind my morals. I don't give a serial killer a 4th chance to prove himself reformed.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool my twice, shame on me."
Please, read what I wrote and tell me if you would still support Microsoft.
and I apologize for any spelling errors. I haven't had a chance to proofread yet.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
In the past three days, Billy has sold over 3 million shares @ about 50bucks a pop. Do the math.
See here for proof
That's great. I bet he saw the writting on the wall on this one. The great wall of MS is coming down!
For those who can't get at the main site, here's a mirror of all the documents
In my reading of these documents, it seems that while there significant positive elements to the decision, there are many loopholes for microsoft to slither though. I'm just waiting for every license agreement to be re-characterized as a joint venture.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Dude, be thankful that it's not a 10-MB 2-page word document! plus, how ironic would that be?
MS: I gots a question for you Ms. Judge
Judge: Yes, the ruling is final however
MS: Jus' one question. Ever seen Bill Gates
Judge: Um... yeah, why?
MS: Does he look like a bitch?
Judge: Um... I don't see what this has to do with anything...
MS: DOES HE LOOK LIKE A BITCH!?
Judge: No... not really but I still don't...
MS: Then why did you fuck him like a bitch?
Does this mean what I think it means?
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
My
Limekiller
It looks like the noise from the anti-MS contingent has helped to get MS off perhaps more lightly than they might have done: Kollar-Kotelly takes the plaintiffs to task for exaggerating the significance of Microsoft's wrongdoings, and for proposing remedies which would be inappropriate -- "Plaintiffs have shown little respect for the parameters of liability that were so precisely delineated by the appellate court." (Opinion P200).
Yeah, the Bill of Rights was supposed to quash things like the DMCA...
That didn't happen (yet).
I can't tell if they announced the final decree in the Microsoft case, or if they're trying to say the employees of Microsoft caught some kind of new STD.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
but then again, who wants to, or is ABLE to compete with Microsoft?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Well, since the links were not publicly accessible yet, and had not yet been officially released, this may constitute hacking according to some individuals (see thread about reuters).
Thanks to slashdot for making us all criminals.... i feel l33t now...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/62/412.html
this means nothing...
he sells shares ever day/week/month all the time
Runnin' On Empty
Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only.
So what bone do you think they will through us? What I mean is will they give some out-dated API set for IE integration and say that they are going over and above the antitrust agreement or what?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
This is becoming a trend.
"Prepare to fast forward!"
From what it looks like, Slashdot posted these links before they were officially released by the Judge.
If one had purchased MSFT stock based on the early release of these documents, would that have been insider trading? Do hidden links referenced in a slashdot post count as public information?
Disclaimer: I didn't read this story until after the markets closed at 4pm, and I have no position in Microsoft stock.
Wondering how some Slashdot reader was able to break this story a full hour before any other source?
/ -- they forgot to forbid people to get a directory listing, so it was easy for someone to just keep hitting Reload until some new files appeared. Nice going, webmaster@dcd.uscourts.gov! :)
Simple.
Check out http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2002/Kotelly
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Looks like they're going to need a "Compliance Officer." Think I'll submit my resume. I'm quite compliant, and I'll work for less than 100k. That's dollars, not stock.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Unless it involves illegal and unfair business tactics like using your stranglehold on the desktop OS market to bitch slap companies that could provide competition.
-Lucas
Isn't this exactly what the preliminary settlement between the US DOJ and Microsoft was before? Or was it modified?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
why? any normal economical theory is void becuase of his SIXTY BILLION DOLLAR net worth... even in liquid assets, he doesn't have to have 'cash for a rainy day when he has a few hundred million in the bank.
Runnin' On Empty
As several other respondants have noted, this is largely a win for Microsoft and a loss for the States. What is surprising is the Judge K-K took so long to issue it.
The big deals the States asked for were removal of the "Security carve-out" (noted by several folks), and the appointment of a Special Master to create a streamlined enforcement process. Neither of these survived, and that is regrettable.
The security carve-out will make things difficult for third-party protocol implementors, and the enforcement provisions are lengthy, expensive, and easy for Microsoft to manipulate.
I spent a good deal of my recent life on this, and I'm upset. I need to read the full decisions in more detail, but other than a very generic win for States' Rights as a principle, this is essentially a no-op.
gnetwerker - $40k poorer, no wiser
-- Mark Lyon http://www.marklyon.org
Got a reference for this?
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
I like it.
It turns out, the S in SRPFJ is for second, not states. So CKK passed the worthless tissuepaper restriction set, with loopholes everywhere, and everything has to be RAND, which is completely useless to OSS. (though, since that is discriminatory, perhaps it can be argued they have to make it usable to GPLed programs... I couldn't find the courts definition of RAND anywhere)
I want my fucking tax dollars back that were wasted on this sham of a trial.
They didn't even solve the OEM issue, as now MSFT is issuing rebates, instead of up-front discounts, to OEMs that "play nice".
Well, MS got pretty much what they want. If they only have to disclose their APIs to other major corporations, the open source crowd is up the creek without a paddle.
. we can get a major corporation to get the API and then release code under a free license. Like, say, IBM could set up a group to contribute code to the WINE project, or to the OpenOffice.org project's .doc filter. Of course, MS will almost certainly try to tie down anybody who gets the code with EULAs that say "you can't release any code based on this information under open source licenses." But we can always hope.
Unless . .
The comment of 'restricting API to large commercial entities...'
Couldn't a Open Source backing vendor, such as Big Blue or the more Microsoft than they'll admit HP/Compaq get the API and use it any way that want?
Meaning Big Blue can license the API, and then using that license help the samba team develop any / all connection information that they need?
I mean not all code need be opensource. If Samba has a 'plug-in' type design done for it where you can purchase a 'SMB' file system plug-in for, then you could connect to MS Servers long enough to migrate people off of them.
We should think of methods to migration now, not overpowering them with a better product in most cases. That was Microsoft's main way of getting into the infrastructure, they built big ass migration tools. F&P for Netware, Quicken to MS Money conversion, those type of things.
my $0.02
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Clicky -Lucas
Bill Gates has 622,321,300 shares of M$. So selling 2 million would be approx 0.16% of this stake in the company. This looks less like the actions of a rat abandoning a sinking ship and more of a rich guy deciding to go shopping this weekend..
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion." --Jeffrey Goines
he's only rich in net worth, aka, in his lil pieces of paper that say, you own too much m$ stock @ $50 a share... if investor confidence tanks, he tanks... he knows this, he isn't stupid, at least give the monopoligizing arsehole that, he IS smart.
Runnin' On Empty
Alex Trebeck: "Microsoft Antitrust Judgement"
*beep*beep*beep*
Contestant: "What is the sound of one wrist slapping, Alex?"
Alex Trebeck: "Yes for $400!"
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Has anyone else noticed this? Not one single thing has been done punishing Microsoft for their actions.
.dll that includes OS security and the copy/paste function all in one. Then of course there is the absence of provisions for OEMs to sell computers sans Windows.
Not to mention the security API. There is nothing keeping them from writing one big lump of
What a waste of taxpayers' money.
Basically this says to me the judge has observed that MS has a record of working very hard to leverage ambiguity in prior judgements, coupled with the known slow pace of DOJ to evade restrictions.
Kollar-Kotelly as I read it has said here: "This court will be seeing that this history does not repeat itself. And all parties have 1 week to sign on.
go Judge!
Linux is Linux, if One need clarify their dist: <Dist>/GNU Linux
bsds are of course just BSD
A few comments seem excited by the restrictions this places on Microsoft's relationships with OEMs. This is not news. That was part of the settlement MS reached with the Justice Dept. The 9 states were unsatisified with that settlement and were arguing for further penalties like making the code to IE open source, forcing MS to sell a company the rights to port Office to Linux, separating out IE from the Windows OS, and many other things.
The point is that the 9 states seem to have got NONE of the things they wanted. Microsoft Wins and wins BIG.
I'm not sure many of you would be as happy about those OEM restrictions the order talks about if you were more familiar with the history of this case. Those things were a baseline given.
We should now start taking bets on the demise of RealNetworks. Windows Media Player will be further incorporated into the OS now and just as they did with IE, they'll gain monopoly power in another software niche.
BWCarver
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
M$ is extremely arrogant. The only time this has been repressed at all is when M$ was trying to say, "See, aren't we a good company?" Even then, they have shown an arrogance that is unbelievable and shows that they truly don't understand that anybody has any rights other M$ and that M$ is always right. Now that they've only been slapped on the hand, we can, of course, expect the arrogant behavior to get worse.
More and more companies are switching to Open Source Software because they're fed up with M$. If M$ were reigned in, that would reduce the frustration other companies have with them. On the other hand, since they have essentially no consequences that hurt them, as their attitude gets worse, so will frustration.
It's like being a kid in school and being beat up by the bully. As the bully's arrogance increases, he thinks he's more and more immune to what anyone can do. Eventually he tries to take on the whole class, everyone sees what he's really like, and suddenly the bully is left standing there, like the Emperor in his new clothes.
M$ attitude is a good reason for people to switch from them. The worse it gets, the more will switch. The Judge has just given them permission to show their worst behavior. Just how much of that will the market bear?
At this point...do the states appeal the decision? Microsoft stated that it would appeal a decision going against them, why can't the states?
And what about the numerous other lawsuits (such as from Sun or AOL or what not)?
Just because the judge said the settlement is ok, I wouldn't expect it to end here. Numerous other lawsuits are still out there and Microsoft will undoubtly be back in court as a competitor sues them for breaking details in this settlement (espically that withholding information for security purposes).
It seems that the agreement basically says that microsoft must stop breaking the law (in certain ways) for a period of 5 years after that apparently they're fully authorized to continue with the illegal behaviour.
Chances are that some team of investors are just diversifying his portfolio as they have been doing for years.
(From what I've read so far, they haven't gotten much sympathy from the judge.)
Well, they *did* bungle the case pretty bad. If they had done a better job, perhaps she would have felt free to discipline Microsoft much harsher without fear of having her ruling reversed by the appeals courts later.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
2. Prevent Microsoft from conditioning any license of any API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol related to anti-piracy systems, anti-virus technologies,
license enforcement mechanisms, authentication/authorization security, or third
party intellectual property protection mechanisms of any Microsoft product to any
person or entity on the requirement that the licensee: (a) has no history of
software counterfeiting or piracy or willful violation of intellectual property
rights, (b) has a reasonable business need for the API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol for a planned or shipping product, (c) meets
reasonable, objective standards established by Microsoft for certifying the
authenticity and viability of its business, (d) agrees to submit, at its own expense,
any computer program using such APIs, Documentation or Communication
Protocols to third-party verification, approved by Microsoft, to test for and ensure
verification and compliance with Microsoft specifications for use of the API or
interface, which specifications shall be related to proper operation and integrity of
the systems and mechanisms identified in this paragraph.
We're sorry, we don't consider giving binaries and source code away for free a viable business model. Go away Samba team. What? What's that about interoperating with Exchange? Yeah, right! Go away stupid free groupware project.
put the what in the where?
upps, nevermind. Should have read the other responses :-)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
Sorry Stephen Satchell, looks like you got no job.
As for the "corporate compliance committee"...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
- adam
The Loophole Clause (AKA section J) explicityly exempts anything having to do with "anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights management, encryption or authentication systems". What do you think Palladium is for?
Nope, no sig
by all means take your time in reading the opinion, but when you get the chance: how exactly were you involved in the settlement talks / case appeal / lobbying effort? and could you elaborate on how the settlement falls short of your (primary/central) hopes?
thanks in advance,
renard
... until their next extension, of course.
The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said.
If this charade of "law-enforcement in the USA" wasn't so ridiculous it'd actually be funny.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Windows' monopoly will not, should not, and shall not be compromised by this judgement alone. However, the monopoly that IE, Outlook, and Office have is now, rightfully, possible to challenge within the next five years.
However, I think a myriad of good things can come from this. Off the top of my head:
Look at this as smacking MS for abusing their monopoly, not the courts doing by fiat what Red Hat, Apple, and IBM have failed to do so far. You've got five years to out-do the "most bloated system in the world". I look foward to the results of this, even as I dread the /. bitching.
Microsoft gets away with it. Just like they always do. Huge political contributions and a new administration taking over the white house probably didn't hurt. It sucks.
But seriously enough whining.
Linux/Unix/macos X are better than window. Really. I can't imagine programming/working on anything else but a unix based box right now. I don't miss windows at all.
Some of this Open source software is simply amazingly powerful. I downloaded fink (app-get for os-x) a couple days ago. Amazing how simple to install emacs, imagemagik and other open source goodies using fink. I was blown away.
There are tons of open-source programs that are simply the best stuff out there, Apache, perl, samba....
There is still lots of work to be done. Consider helping. Buy a naked pc, install linux/bsd. But a mac, install X, help port open source to it. Help out some projects, even start your own. Set up a linux server at work. Write some documentation that makes things clearer to those learning.
Sometimes opensource spawns rivalries. BSD vs Linux, KDE vs. Gnome. In someways this is bad, "competion is good", but confuses. These flame wars can become bitter and tiresome. Better solutions will be found and implimented and that is a great thing.
keep coding, keep thinking, keep using and keep giving back.
Here in Illinois a candidate for governor, Jim Ryan, agreed to the settlement. I wasn't planning to vote for him anyway, but I was reluctant to vote for his opponent as well -- I think this has changed my mind on that.
And of course this all happened because of the Executive's leadership in dealing with corporate crime -- the radical change in direction that the Justice Department took should be be clear to all. Bush isn't up for reelection, but his allies are. This is just one more instance where that party has shown itself an ally of corporate criminals.
michael, given your well known hatred of microsoft,
I know this is offtopic, it is a reply..
More often than not I do not agree with his MS bashing style either. If it bothered me THAT bad I would not worry about getting others to jump on my bandwagon, I would simply block him out with the slashdot user options. It is really that easy... Of course you cant be an AC for that option.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Not quite:
"II. Applicability
This Final Judgment applies to Microsoft and to each of its officers, directors, agents,
employees, subsidiaries, successors and assigns; and to all other persons in active concert or
participation with any of them who shall have received actual notice of this Final Judgment by
personal service or otherwise."
Any kind of shill company would have to be controlled by one of the listed entities in order to keep control of the the IP. And the, company may be considered a " subsidiaries, successors and assigns". They might try, but would probably fail.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
The amount of money you threw at your lawyers. ($80,000,000)
"Gifts" to key government officials. ($20,000,000)
Propaganda designed to lure the public into complacity. ($20,000,000)
Getting off basically free of any real restrictions that will let you continue in basically the same manner as before, and any attempt to bring you to trial again will take another 5-10 years. Priceless.
(I'm itching to know the real numbers)
I'd love to share our SMB code with you...
Alas, our security teams are afraid that it may contain some bugs. Those could result in security compromises to our customers' systems. Don't worry - our systems really are safe - as long as we can keep the source code secret.
BTW - Make sure you don't buy any of that scary open source stuff. They don't hide their source, and hackers can go browsing for security holes in it anytime they want...
And of course the judges ignored (or knew perfectly well but *wanted* a meaningless settlement) that it's irrelevant that you realease 99% of the API if you hold on to that last 1% that does security and is necessary to get just about anything at all done on the machine. Consider the DeCSS situation: The thing that's holding up DVD software for Linux is
one freakin' little paragraph of code that already got reverse engineeried but still can't be used legally.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
If you will scan down the recent listings, you'll see that Gates sells blocks of shares in round millions all of the time.
Todays sale is not particularly relevant. He owns 616 million shares, selling a few million means nothing to him - probably program trades, cash for quarterly tax payments, a new yacht, etc.
(Officer Barbrady voice) :
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along now.
If MS requires NDAs from all people seeking information about their protocols, those would be "reasonable and non-discrimnatory" as the term is currently used.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Actually, that's not too out of line:
month - shares sold
1/2002 - 4,000,000
2/2002 - 14,000,000
3/2002 - 2,000,000
6/2002 - 20,000,000
8/2002 - 20,000,000
10/2002 - 6,000,000
and, as others have pointed out:
shares remaining, 2002-10-25: 616,749,300
share price is in the mid $50's.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
the process of hearing complaints could be vastly speeded up if MS decides to play fast and loose.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
I disagree with the courts finding with respect to Java.
The judge seems to be of the impression that since Java worked on M$ OSes and M$ actively distributed its own JVM in which java applications "worked" then M$ was not really trying to kill java. Thus she accepts M$ claim (I assume this is what they claimed) that their modifications were improvements to enhance Java on their OSes.
But this neglects the mission and design of Java. If java were simply a programming language this this would be true, but Java is an environment.
The failure is with SUN and the plantifs. Though I disagree I believe she is right.
If you take the case of the windows logo in which people had to make programs run on winNT before they would get the logo for 95. Sun should have had a Java logo. M$ could never say development towards win95 only is an attempt to destroy NT.
This is about as bad as I expected it could be.
Microsoft's dominance in the operating system and applications market will continue basically unchecked. Because of it, Microsoft will find it all the easier to deploy Paladium, which will help cement their dominance by using "security" as an excuse for locking out the interoperability efforts of Linux and others. This will help balkanize the Linux and Windows worlds, which will slow migration away from Windows. It will also be a useful tool for silencing a few activists who defy the restrictions with court and prison. Let's also not forget, without the trial hanging over its collective head, Microsoft will be much freer to use the bludgeon of Office withdrawal against Apple, should it not tow the line.
Paladium is the beginning of efforts towards centralized surveillance and control of all electronic media. Once it is deployed and semi-usable, the "gentle coercion" of fees, compatility, and network-effect fear will help Microsoft as they phase out and then attempt to suppress older, more open versions of their operating system (Win2k, XP, etc). Perhaps Windows Update will back-port the "content revolution." Or perhaps the death blow to Microsoft's open legacy will be a virulent worm which preys on a security hole they refuse to fix.
People will ask incredulously, "who would abuse Paladium, and how?" and the answer is, "anyone who can, in any way they can get away with."
The evolution of the operating system will keep its super-slow-mo pace. It was bad enough before; who would invest a nickle in any new technology that could compete with Microsoft now? They have the King's indulgence. In addition to the enormous "natural" benefits of their momentum and size, they are effectively untouchable. Progress in the computer sciences, and then progress in all the fields computers touch (and could touch, in a more innovative world), is hurt tremendously by this.
The threat of loss, from competition or regulation, is what drives progress. Think of it - Windows' closest competitor is written by hobbyists! And even then, it is because of Linux, and this trial (and to a far lesser extent, Apple) that Windows 2000 is more stable than Windows 98 and NT. But with the antitrust case gone, the content trusts having paved the way with the DMCA, and Microsoft already preparing new "solutions" to problems of interoperability and easy migration, there will no longer be a threat.
We are on some kind of roll. As a nation, we seem to make a new decision that betrays our standards and squanders our legacy every day. But, though people will call me a geek or claim I have an exaggerated idea of the computer's importance, I say that today's failure is particularly egregious. What all the parties have done here, the DoJ, their counterparts in the various States, the judge (CKK), and not least Microsoft itself, has left our children a disgusting legacy, and they will curse us for it. Rightly so.
We're on the road to Tycho.
A massive win for Microsoft? I'm not so sure. IANAL, and this is a lot to read, but a few things have struck out at me here....
Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against an OEM... because it is known to Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating... shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with more than one Operating System
Good news for anyone who wants another chance at ordering a Linux-loaded Dell.
Microsoft shall not enter into any agreement relating to a Windows Operating System Product that conditions the grant of any Consideration on an ISV's refraining from developing, using, distributing, or promoting any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any software that runs on any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, except that Microsoft may enter into agreements that place limitations on an ISV's development, use, distribution or promotion of any such software if those limitations are reasonably necessary to and of reasonable scope and duration in relation to a bona fide contractual obligation of the ISV to use, distribute or promote any Microsoft software or to develop software for, or in conjunction with, Microsoft.
Translation (as I read it): Microsoft can't stop selling Windows to my company, or stop my company from selling Windows-compatible programs, just because that my company wants to make and sell Mac or Linux versions.
Section III.H is really, -really- long to quote, but from what I read, it says that Microsoft will always offer a 'uniform and unbiased mechanism' for such things as changing file associations and setting up third-party programs to do anything "Microsoft Middleware" does. They can't ever make it so that you -can't- substitute WinAmp for Windows Media Player. As a matter of fact, they need to make it idiot-level easy. They also have to make it idiot-level easy to remove all traces of IE, Outlook Express, or MSN Messenger.
And, from what I see in III.I.3, Microsoft can't make their licenses non-transferrable. I can sell you my XP license, and no one will have any room to complain.
They're required to make all APIs used by their Middleware through MSDN or some similar mechanism. Granted, MSDN access is by subscription, so the information won't be free-as-in-beer, but Microsoft can't altogether stop that information from being public.
The enforcement seems to be in the hands of a multi-state committee. Notorious as committees are for not getting things done, still, the states have shown a strong interest in bearing down on MS.
Have to see how it goes, I guess.
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
s/whose/who's :)
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
Yup. He's smart enough to, say, hire a firm to manage his investments, and stipulate a maximum percentage of assets that can be in any one company. Keeping all his assets in one company would be incredibly stupid...
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
I see. Microsoft breaks the law, gets caught and convicted. Buys a new Justice Department. Then pleads for a punishment that is not punative.
So they end up promising not to do some of the bad stuff ever again. And, they even get to decide whether they are doing the bad stuff!
"Officer, I promise not to speed ever again. To be sure of it, I will watch how fast I'm driving, and report back if I ever drive too fast."
Sheesh.
Yes, this is good news for the Free Software world, although not nearly as good as it could have been. But.....
Honestly, how many of you people are actively doing something to fight the Microsoft monopoly we all complain about? How many of you are willing to strike out on your own as a Open Source based consultant? How many of you refuse to work for companies that focus on proprietary Windows software? I would have to guess not near enough, because if so, Microsoft would not be in the position it is today. If you want Justice, go out and wrangle away Microsoft's market share until they wither and die. All the tools you need are right in front of you--take advantage of them!
Since the CEO is responsible for the actions of the company, does this mean that Balmer and/or Gates are now felons under violation of Section 2 of the Sherman Act? I'm not a lawyer, but with all the laws against CEO misconduct that Bush is passing would this be the case?
Given that other people can go in at any time during office hours and audit them at will... is this not a token committee? What do you think they would be doing that could not be uncovered by simple auditing of a third party?
For those who doubt the ability of the usdoj to met out justice, I submit this message that they just emailed to me. I subscribed to this maillist yesterday for updates on the MS trial. This is the only message I have recieved so far:
From: "USDC Clerk's Office" donotreply@DCD.USCOURTS.GOV
To users who use the Netscape version 6.2 browser, fi you see the message at the bottom of the browser stating that the document is done and you do nit see the document, please hit the reload button at the top of your browser to view the document. Thank you for your patience in this matter.
A stupid message that says a lot.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Mind you, it would be better if all Microsoft products were encrypted with the SUCKFISH || BLOWFSCK algorythms
For what my two cents are worth...
o -Needs-Him?
This guy's right. Michael has zero credibility with any Microsoft story. My first reaction when I saw all the links about the case was, "I should probably go to Yahoo or Google and look for a summary." Then I saw the editor's "I'll post a summary," and I thought, "Great! Now that's a service! Well managed!" And then I saw it was michael, and said, "I should probably go to Yahoo or Google and look for a summary."
This is not said with emotion or rancor, not even disappointment (at this stage). It just is what it is. [shrug] I don't know whose job it is to dole out the postings, but if it's done in any manner other than the most current stuff going to the editor on duty, the person in charge should have had the good sense NOT to give such an important MS story to Michael.
Yeah, yeah, I know the drill: Mod down
-1 FlameBait
-2 OffTopic
-2 you-think-you-know-better-than-us!
-4 Troll
-1 Your-Alliance-to-Open-Source-Is-Suspect
-3 He's-Probably-An-MS-Schill!
-2 He-Hasn't-Posted-Anything-Really-Funny-In-Days-Wh
Judge Robert H. Bork, former Appellate Judge and Antitrust Expert
The decision accepts the deeply flawed settlement between Microsoft and the Department of Justice, which does nothing to restore competition to the marketplace or to prevent Microsoft from repeating acts explicitly held by the Court of Appeals to have been illegal.
The net result is that until this decision is overturned on appeal, as I believe it will be, competition will not be restored.
The Court of Appeals clearly prohibited Microsoft's practice of commingling the code of Windows with that of other critical software when there is no
benefit, but rather a clear harm, to consumers. This decision fails to
remedy this violation of the law, and its reversal seems likely on this point alone.
Never before has there been a case where liability was so thoroughly established, and never before has there been a case where the Justice Department agreed to a remedy that did almost nothing of what the law and the Court of Appeals required. Today's decision represent a substantial abandonment of antitrust law as it applies to one of the most important industries in America. The Department of Justice won at every step of the trial, and then surrendered in the settlement process. To justify this surrender, the Department resorted to disingenuous arguments that it could not be statistically proven that Microsoft's illegal conduct directly caused harm to Netscape. Their post hoc rationale for a flawed settlement has been absurd. We have the corpse of Netscape on the floor, and a whole host of other technologies whose development was stopped because it did not coincide with Microsoft's business plans.
The most disturbing message of all is that sent to nascent technologies and
innovators: the Department of Justice will not protect you from predatory monopolists. That is a grave error in economic policy and will have disastrous effects for competition in this and other industries.
Judge Kenneth W. Starr, former U.S. Solicitor General and Appellate Judge
This settlement gives the green light to Microsoft to continue its monopoly practices, a disastrous result for the high-tech industry, which has lived under effective Microsoft control for too many years.
In its unanimous ruling last summer that Microsoft had violated antitrust law, the Court of Appeals stated that the remedy must "terminate the monopoly, deny to Microsoft the fruits of its past statutory violations, and prevent any future anticompetitive activity." This weak settlement clearly fails to meet that standard, and it is my belief that the Judge simply gave too much deference to the Department of Justice, deference that was not warranted given the fact that the remedy proceedings were held after a full and complete trial.
The nine states that refused to accept the Microsoft settlement proved during the remedy hearings that Microsoft's monopoly is stronger than ever and that real remedies are needed. The Attorneys General of these states are to be commended for their courageous defense of consumers, antitrust laws and free-market economy. These AGs fought on because they understood that Microsoft is poised to monopolize the Internet itself, a result made more likely by today's decision.
It is my hope those Attorneys General will continue to fight to seek immediate review of this flawed decision.
Mike Pettit, ProComp President
ProComp is extremely disappointed. This represents a systemic failure of the legal system, a failure to protect consumers, competition, and companies like Netscape whose innovations literally changed the world.
Microsoft has terrorized the industry for more than a decade. Victims of Microsoft's predatory conduct are legion. This was the moment in time when competition could have been restored; that task will be much more difficult in the future. The right case was brought and won resoundingly. Eight
federal judges ruled unanimously against Microsoft. And then what
happened can only be explained this way: the Bush Justice Department surrendered to Microsoft.
The word has gone forth from the Bush Administration to countless would-be dreamers and tinkerers: we will not protect you when monopolists like Microsoft set out to crush you. It may take a decade to understand just how shortsighted today's decision is.
Microsoft has ostensibly been on its best behavior the past few months while pretending to comply with the DOJ settlement. Even during this time, the degree and nature of their predatory conduct has accelerated. I shudder to think of what this portends for the industry, which is now almost totally regulated by the most powerful monopolist in history.
In discussing OEM's ability to add to and alter the desktop and start menu:
.except that Microsoft may restrict an OEM from displaying icons, . . ."
"Microsoft shall not restrict by agreement any OEM licensee from exercising any of the following. .
I doesn't matter what Microsoft may restrict. They should not be able to restrict anything that does not violate any law. This is a big win for Microsoft.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Microsoft's stock closed at $53, down 47 cents. Its stock rose nearly 5 percent in after hours trading.
And who yet doesn't think today was a major win for Microsoft?
I am Jack's HTTP Server
I love this part : (AP)...The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said.
Whew, and you were worried!
WTF? How would restrictions against Microsoft deprive consumers of Unix, Linux, FreBSD, etc.?
Actually, this just goes to show how much Micro$ham crap news writers have swallowed and internalized over they years.
OK, here is a prime example of what you get when you have a corrupted legal system. MS does not have to do any thing. The only things they are not allowed to do are prohibited BY LAW anyways. As a monopoly, you can not discriminate against competitors. There are NO and I repeat NO sanctions if MS does not follow this code of conduct. The only thing that will happen is that the code of conduct can be extended by two (2!) years. Hardly deterring, if you don't follow it in the first place. The loopholes are so big that only the largest companies can even think about using anything from MS.
My only hope is that the European Commission will fine MS and punish them hard enough for their behaviour to get an effect.
The Honorable Mrs. K-K should retire. She did not even have a small grasp of the matters at hand or she was pressured to her decision. This is a shame for the American Legal system.
Moritz
The monopoly in this case was not found to have been illegally acquired, but only
to have been illegally maintained. Therefore, rather than termination of the
monopoly, the proper objective of the remedy in this case is termination of the
exclusionary acts and practices related thereto which served to illegally maintain
the monopoly.
How on earth did she come to that conclusion?!
"God is dead." - Frederik Nietzsche
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
What are they going to do, conduct all their business planning in mime? Switch to verbal agreements for everything? The other side has perma-access to all areas and all paperwork of every kind for the duration. I think you're underestimating the significance of the auditing powers granted to State representatives. Their powers are not limited to code printouts- they get pretty much carte blanche to check out anything written down at Microsoft, even if it's the back of an envelope. Microsoft no longer has the slightest shred of privacy, legally. Has it escaped your attention that before this, their corporate offices could be considered private property, and nobody allowed in to read what's written down there? They just lost that, any State rep or any number of State reps can go read absolutely anything they want.
The board can go right ahead and be dishonorable and business as usual. It'll show up in memos and instructions and briefings and the inspectors will find it. They can go ahead and claim that everything is a 'security' issue. The inspectors can find the memos saying 'better lie about this being a security issue', and they can look over any and all of the code that is being withheld on the grounds of it being a security issue. I don't see anything about swearing the inspectors to secrecy and making them take NDAs. They're straight-up third parties who get to go in and look at anything they want- any and ALL things they want.
I don't buy your argument. The fact that there's a committee of Microsoft board members means precisely squat. They have no power to obstruct or conceal anything, because they aren't the ones in charge of the auditing. They are theoretically the ones in charge of Microsoft voluntarily playing nice. Since this is never gonna happen what difference does it make who gets that job description?
They won't ignore this one as there's not much to ignore. There's a lot of posts here on slashdot about how M$ has to do this and M$ has to do that, but when you read through, there's enough loopholes that three boyscouts and a high school drop-out could find a way around restrictions. For one thing, M$ is now in charge of its own compliance. Basically, she said "naughty naughty, don't let us catch you doing that again" and sent them on their way. I'm truly disappointed with her, as I was expecting something more along the lines of what we've seen before with the FISA court, where she came out publicly against the DoJ, FBI, Ashcroft, and a slew of others.
What happened, Colleen? Microsoft pay you off, or did Bush order you to do this? I can't imagine it was an M$ pay-off, so I'm guessing its the current administration. Would be nice to hear an explaination from her as to why on Earth this makes sense to her, and how she thinks this remedies past and present wrongdoing by M$, and how in the world this prevents them from doing it again in the future.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Not only did MS play by the rules, but they played off the greed of the other players. All the destructive contracts they got were based on the other players being unwilling to take a short-term loss for a long-term win. They took their short term win of money for a long term loss of freedom, and now that they have to pay that loss people are starting to complain. Moreover, most of the force behind the attacks on MS comes from their competitors who see legal action as a cheaper way to compete.
If MicroSoft were the only source of medicine, food, clothing, or shelter, then I'd have some sympathy for the detractors, but they sell SOFTWARE, and they don't even have a monopoly on that! People are just too cheap to suck it up and pay the REAL costs of freedom.
As Elbereth said here a few weeks ago, "Those who would trade a little freedom for a program that works deserve neither freedom nor a program that works."
Today, the UN agreed that Iraq will continue to have inspections that it is compliant with its directives. The committee will be comprised of Iraqi appoint officials, including, Anthrax Andy Mohammed, Radiation Rad Ali, and a man simply known as Nuclear Winter. Saddam Hussein promised that these men take their jobs very seriously and will do whatever it takes...
"This "reasonable and non-discrimantor" rule allows for charging of royalties and restricting distribution and sub-licensing of the intellectual property."
This is a choice that people who adopt Open Source software have willfully made. That is, they feel having the source code and free distribution rights is far more important than having functionality.
You cannot blame Microsoft for your own choices.
The same choice is also what has created the problem of a lack of hardware drivers for Linux. In some cases they exist, but only as binaries. If you don't like that, then you are free to not use them.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think I missed something here. Somewhere along the line, the judge who couldn't be fooled by the defense... was removed.
A new judge was a appointed who represented the wishes of a new government who no longer wished to do anything bad to one of its big campaign contributers.
The prosecution then decided to team with the defense, to propose a soft settlement with the new judge in a glorious menage a trois.
Meanwhile the public looked on wondering what happened. Fortunately a press release telling them that Microsoft has been punished set all their minds at ease.
The only thing that would have made this great moment complete was if the final judgement was issued in Visual Basic.
I'll file this one in my great moments in US history scrapbook, next to the picture of Johnny Cochrane.
from the cnn article: "...and require that the company release some technical data so software developers can write programs for Windows that work as well as Microsoft products do."
and they kept a straight face?
Some lawyer can point out that a 4-way Xeon is not a Personal Computer, but a Server, and that therefore this ruling does not apply?
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Here are two relevant quotes from the article:
...
. as p
" Kollar-Kotelly also modified the oversight of Microsoft's compliance with the settlement. Originally, the proposal included a technical committee and an internal compliance officer. In Friday's ruling, the judge combined the two into a compliance committee made up of Microsoft board members. In turn, the committee must hire a compliance officer, to report to the committee and Microsoft's CEO.
Attorney General John Ashcroft also praised the ruling. "The court's decision is a major victory for consumers and businesses, who can immediately take advantage of the final judgment's provisions," Ashcroft said in a statement released Friday afternoon. "
I guess those huge campaign contributions MS made to Bush's and Ashcroft's campaigns really paid off!
http://www.opensecrets.org/alerts/v6/alertv6_26
"Microsoft also was a major contributor to the Bush-Cheney Inaugural Fund, donating $100,000 to the gala last January."
Please people, vote!!!
hyperpoem.net
If I'm not mistaken, you're Steve McGeady of Intel, who did Set Top Boxes with Gosling at SIGGRAPH '95.[1] Why didn't Intel put up the $40k to cover your expenses as a witness in the government's case, especially in light of what Microsoft did to them?
__
[1] FWIW, mad props for keen vision etcetera; and isn't it interesting how that prospect was also killed off by Microsoft?
If they'd gotten their asses handed to them, their new perceptions might have given MS a chance for long-term survival based on listening to their customers and trying to build better products than anybody else. By and large, they now can legally conduct business as usual.
The judge isn't wholly at fault here, DOJ (would large MS campaign contributions to Bush have had anything to do with it) wasn't fighting to win anymore. That's clear even from the public summary. She can only rule on what the opposing sides use for arguments, objective reality has nothing much to do with court decisions.
The future?
Brussels to spend 250k on Linux migration study
More governments and businesses refusing to put up with MS licensing terms, bad security, or the constant hardware/software upgrade cycle, and quietly converting to Open Source. They are investigating desktop as well as server, and the consultancy doing this is already rolling out "secure" Linux desktops and server systems in police stations in part of the UK.
I've been working in high-tech journalism for the last few years. Well, the bottom has fallen out of the market and won't be coming back anytime soon, so I'm changing tracks to system administration. I'm convinced enough that MS is part of the past that I won't be bothering with learning W2000/XP or IIS.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Karma to burn my friend.
I agree with you. This is dumb. We will all keep yelling about michael until it is publicly addressed, someone is responded to, or we all leave. I'm not leaving, are you?
By the way, I've got "excellent" karma and a + 2 bonus...so here i got to lose 3...karma suicide...*jumps*
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
OK. So now we know for sure what we've mostly assumed all along -- Microsoft has a monopoly and the government isn't going to do much, if anything, about it. Are all of the competitors ready to get off their sweaty asses and do something revolutionary finally, or are they and we going to continue to whine about how unfair Microsoft is? We already know a lot of Free Software is superior to the garbage Microsoft spews out, so why don't we develop some sort of strategy to push Linux and other Free Software to the level that it actually threatens Microsoft's monopoly instead of relying the government that we don't trust anyway to somehow help us?
Yes, a lot of companies are doing this already, but let's stand behind them 100% instead of whining about their lack of spine for not including flag graphics or for looking too much like Windows or any number of other cheesy gripes.
Are you people ready NOW or do you want to wait for another few rounds in court before we actually give Microsoft the competition the marketplace needs? The only thing that Microsoft has that the Free Software Movement needs is a clear direction. Yes, free men pull in all sorts of directions, but right now, we're mostly we're running into eachother.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1. Linux programs work fine out of the box for me, 95% of the time.
2. I had more trouble getting windows to work with my hardware than linux.(Old hardware, or bad drivers, on several different PC's
3. Go to download.com and skim some windows software. Read the ratings. A lot of it is broken/hard to get working, too.
4. Sometimes software requires tweaking. Windows software too.
5. Finally, with linux/Open software, if something is broken, I can read the readme and FIX IT. With many windows, closed, no-source no-documentation software, I'm out of luck.
Just a reminder of how life is sometimes.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
You don't have to. I got an IntelliMouse, plugged it into my Mac, and got full mouse functionality (left, right mouse buttons and scroll wheel) with no driver. I ended up installing the MS driver so I could turn the wheel-click into a 'back' button in my browser (wonderfully handy) but that's extended functionality. It works out of the box.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
You're right: Recall that a mere sixteen years or so ago, everyone was still in bunches about Big Blue taking over the world.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Want to bet that Microsoft will decide that wine or any other open source project is not a viable buisness?
I'm not sure which settlement you're refering to, but Microsoft's business practices are currently still under investigation by the European Commission. And let's not forget Japan, who are conducting their own investigations in these matters.
Similarly to the US, the EU has brought an antitrust case against Microsoft, with a preliminary ruling expected later this year. It is not unthinkable that the failure of the United States to take decisive measures against Microsoft may prompt harsher action from the EU.
The EC is particularly concerned that Microsoft may extend its monopoly to include server software and media services. Aside from that, the EU has a separate investigation into Microsoft's Passport service
"I told you so" kind of guy.
So.. I Told You So!
Now I get to wait for about 15 years, and when children are chanting "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of Microsoft", I will be able to say it again.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux.
Not at all. Linux has the best position TODAY, but anything can happen tomorrow. This industry changes too rapidly to make any predictions. A couple of scenarios:
A) People once dumped their inexpensive Apple II's, Commodores and TRS-80's for the more expensive IBM PC. The possiblity certainly exists that Mac OSX could take off in a big way, particularly since it is both easier to use than Windows, and more powerful.
B) Linux distros are merely repackagers of software, slapping a user "friendly" veneers over it. There's nothing stopping a third party from slapping a better veneer over FreeBSD or NetBSD. This is what Apple did, and they're doing great because of it.
Four years ago Linux was a hobby. Two years ago it looked like it might be a contender for the printserver market. The changes that can happen over two years in both technology and attitudes is amazing.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
more 'confidence' sales by bill gates
:
25 oct -- 1 million
23 oct -- 1 million (actually just under) shares
22 oct -- 1 million
21 aug -- 10 million
4 jun -- 10 million
this is numbers of shares not dollar value - multiplying by $50 gives us a figure of roughly $1.25 billion (adding in the 2 million sold nov 1) - not chicken feed even for the likes of bill gates
interestingly his first sale of 10 million in june came just after the stock price rose above $50 - it had been flummoxing around in the low 40s for a while before that - at prices not seen since the early part of 1998
with no dividends ever paid and no prospect of further significant growth for MS - just a slow strangling of wealth from it's existing customers - MS seems like a pretty dubious buy to me - so no surprises that gates seems to think the same way
links
register of MS insider trades
MS stock price chart - last 5 years
Legal judgements need to be provided in a certain way. Pushing out a .txt version could be an option, but the layout and formatting is part of the document, which .doc, .sxw, .txt, .html do not provide.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
"OMG: /. doing actual journalism!"
What is this world coming to?! What's next, spell-checking? Dupe-checking? Article submissions without editorial commentary?
...I wonder if so many amateur economists would be posting here now?
In truth, the remedies sought by the anti-settlement states would have had little, if any, impact on the market share enjoyed by Microsoft products. Telling Microsoft not to bully vendors who hide a few icons is not the way to foster competitive products.
Lost in all this smoke and hot air is the intimate link between Microsoft and the x86 PC architecture. Other architectures were, and are, possible. Vendors selling alternative OS's for the x86 platform may eventually carve out a stable and profitable niche, but their impact on MS will be minimal. (A decision today in favor of the anti-settlement states would not have changed that fact.)
The way to check Microsoft's influence is to create and market a personal computing platform based on a new, non-x86 platform that offers compelling capabilities that the x86 can't. This would represent a paradigm shift as significant as the original PC industry in the late '70's and early '80's.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
MS stock was $115 at peak.
At that time Bill's stock would be worth:
$71,415,000,000
He's lost half his fortune!!!
Poor Bill.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Only in the US:
Can a defendant be proven guilty...
Be disrespectful to the court...
Flat out refuse to comply with court orders without legal grounds...
Not even follow their own version and interpretation of the settlement agreement...
and..
Be granted even more power than they had before. (Yeah, its illegal, but its ok for MS to do it!)
If any of us had tried to pull this kind of shit in court, we'd be like the guy on goatse.cx by now. But because its "Big Money, Corp." they can do it all day long and not even flinch. No polititions calling for reform. No legal experts throwing a fit. No public outcry. Welcome to the US o fuckin A. (smells the karma burn)
I wish I could get away with bankrupting company after company and ripping off billions with a settlement that basically said, "I promise to not do it again as long as I don't think I need to." The settlement rank and file full of contradiction after contradiction, loophole after loophole. I can honestly say, that in my life, I have never seen this large a pile of outright horseshit, and in all places, the country that is supposed to value the rights of the little guy over that of the groups. God help me, where is the United States I was told about growing up? Where is the land of tolerance and Free thought and the chance for the little guy to succeed. I'm not calling for anarchy or comunism, so to those who would reflexively accuse me so, keep that in mind. This is supposed to be the land of the Free, not the land where you are free to fuck someone over, so long as you don't piss off someone with more power than you.
I'll admit, I have been wrong before; I will be wrong again; and I may be wrong now. But right now it sure seems to be the truth to me. This is a sham. This is a shame. This is reality.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name= News&file=article&sid=477&mode=&order=0&thold= 0
Don't want to read it? Here's the bottom line:
Microsoft wins. The judge has entered the settlement as MS wanted it. The "amendment" to that settlement isn't substantive...
WASHINGTON (DC) Nov. 1. Judge Kollar-Kotelly, asserting a rarely used Federal Appellant Court authority, issued a second legal ruling today, this one concerning the case of two suspects charged with going on a shooting rampage in the Washington DC area. The suspects will be released immediately, but ONLY after agreeing under oath not to shoot any more innocent victims. The guns found in the alleged snipers' possesion will not be returned for a period of 5 years, and then ONLY if the two are found in compliance with this decree. Compliance will be determined by a 2 person committee made up of the snipers themselves.
More about Microsoft abuses: Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going..
Well, some of the documents did have the phrase "Final Judgment" :-/
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
If the small businesses being harmed are the real innovators in the software world, this decision could do the US a lot more harm than good.
Think of the big American carmakers during the 60s and 70s. Their monopolies slowed the pace of innovation in the US and made them complacent. This probably seemed perfectly acceptable at the time-- after all, the whole world was buying our cars, right? Until, of course, the Japanese took advantage out our complacency and nearly put us out of the business. US carmakers were forced to literally invent the kind of innovative, small companies they'd put out of business (like Saturn).
Well, my boss gave me the day off. I pretty much spent all my time playing computer games, and I was feeling pretty good...until I read slashdot.
Now I'm in a crappy mood. This really sucks. And just think... now there's nothing and nobody to stop M$ and the entertainment cartel from crippling my computer and forcing me into either using M$ development tools and licensing permissions if I want to do *ANY* programming whatsover, whether personal or professional.
It's time for me to change careers. I just haven't figured out what the hell I'm going to do. I love computers. This is yet another one of my passions that will be taken away from me....
This space left intentionally blank.
They don't seem very upset about it
Microsoft News Conference on US District Court Rulings Bill Gates, Chairman & Chief Software Architect Steve Ballmer, CEO November 1, 2002 BILL GATES: Good afternoon. We believe that today's ruling, largely affirming the settlement we reached with the Department of Justice and the nine states represents a fair resolution of this case. It's a major milestone. We thank the mediator, the federal government and the nine states that helped forge the settlement, and we appreciate the court's extensive work. This settlement puts new responsibilities on Microsoft, and we accept them. We recognize that we will be closely scrutinized by the government and our competitors. We will devote the time, energy and resources needed to meet these new rules. I am personally committed to full compliance. We have already made many of the necessary changes. We have increased the technical information we make available about our products. We have made it simpler for computer manufacturers to replace Microsoft software with programs of their choice on the Windows desktop. We have made our licenses more uniform. And we have appointed an internal compliance officer. We are also training our employees so that the settlement is understood and followed in every part of our business. We are committed to being a responsible industry leader. We are dedicated to the core values that built this company from the beginning, helping people and businesses realize their full potential through great software. A lot has changed since this lawsuit began. The Internet is becoming an increasingly vital part of our lives. Economic growth has cooled worldwide, and it has been a time of increased competition and upheaval in the technology industry. But I also believe it's a time of promise. We have only scratched the surface of what software can do in our homes, our schools and our economy. While putting new responsibilities on Microsoft, this settlement also gives us the freedom to keep on innovating for our customers. The next few years will be an incredibly exciting time for our industry as Microsoft and many other companies work to develop technology for an increasingly digital world. We are pleased with another step in this case behind us. We can focus even more on building the future of technology. Thank you. STEVE BALLMER: I want to second what Bill has said. We are fully dedicated to complying with the settlement which the court conditionally approved today. Over the last year we have put in place the resources and training to ensure compliance, and we are continuing to implement the required changes in our software and how we operate. As a company, Microsoft has learned and grown through the experience of the last four years, and we are committed to moving forward as a responsible leader in an industry that is constantly, constantly changing. I want to be clear that we have heard both those who support us and those who have criticized us. We must be aware of our actions affect others and are perceived by them. Compliance is both a corporate commitment and a personal responsibility for all our employees. By strengthening our connections with customers and industry partners, we are committed to forging a deeper bond with the people and communities we serve, by listening more, communicating better, and focusing more than ever on innovation. As we continue to focus on complying with this settlement, we are also continuing our discussion with the European Commission to address the issues that they have raised. We see an amazing opportunity for technology to enrich people's lives in the years ahead. The 50,000-plus employees of Microsoft are 100 percent focused on working with people across our industry to help create the next generation of products and services that will help people in businesses achieve their full potential. Thanks very much to all of them, and thanks very much to you for your time today. We'd be delighted to take some questions. Bill Gates, Brad Smith, our general counsel, and I will all be available to you. Key Topics Current Legal News Legal News Archive Antitrust Proceedings Proposed Settlement Settlement Proceedings Settlement Program Non-Settling States Remedies Proceedings Antitrust Trial and Appeals Archive Proceedings Index of Legal Filings Background Information Class Action Antitrust Lawsuits Other Legal Issues News Customer Guide to Microsoft Legal Policies Contact Us Subscribe ©2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
"and in that case thay'd have to publically declare that their "security-related" API is insecure..."
Haven't they already admitted that though? I thought I remember them saying that the code is "so insecure" that if the opened the source it would be a huge can of worms.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
just to add some more perspective -
the 25 million shares i referenced in my parent comment represent 4% of bill gates's MS stock holdings - i.e. at the beginning of june he held close to 650 million shares
so that's the situation - a sell-off of 4% of his total stock holding inside 5 months - you be the judge of whether that's significant
"Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux"
I was watching foxnews and they had their business roundtable going. They mentioned that how Linux was the only real competition. Then they literally laughed, yes literally laughed and all agreed how much of a joke it was to think some "free software" could compete with a $250 billion company.
We'll see whose laughing in 5 years.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
think of it this way-- it will take an army of lawyers to regulate Microsoft. The DOJ doesn't have that army of lawyers....
BUT there is an army out there opposing Microsoft-- as evidenced by the 100 or so lawsuits waiting for this to become official. That army consists of lots of little companies, and several big ones.
Basically, this ruling leaves Microsoft legally vulnerable. And that may be more effective than a harsher punishment.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
The judgement states, for all intents and purposes, that it's business as usual, but they have to play by the rules. Does this mean that all this brouhaha about antitrust was for naught?!
This sig no verb.
The law is as it always was, an ass and way behind the curve. The market place (M$ own customers are its own worst ennemy,) will decide.
... the marketplace will switch to 64 bit desktops anyway and Linux will have the edge because I don't think M$ will ever get off the x86.
When M$ becomes as reliable (cough, cough,) and secure (hack, hack, gasp,)) as Linux or when Linux desktop becomes consistent ("rach ptui",) enough then
And NO Mr. Moore, 32 bits is NOT enought.
Our computers are still blind, deaf and dumb (also stupid and way too easily fooled.)
The amount of RAM and CPU our machines need to have and use should let them be as agile and as environmentally aware as a pet cat or canary.
I don't have to type in a spoofable password on a keyboard for my pet for it to know that I'm me. (existential security based on biometric recognition.)
I point with my finger (not a mouse,) and track objects with my eyes in 3D (no equivalent,).
I speak and I don't run spell-check as I talk. (Of course there's still the old "I know you think you understand what you heard but I don't think you realize that what I said was not what I meant.")
I listen. (ViaVoice ain't there yet.)
I draw on cocktail napkins...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Great post-- it's always interesting to see in action the bizarre split in the "right wing" that everyone (especially the right wing itself) always just kind of seems to pretend doesn't exist.. you know, the split between the lasseiz-faire right-wingers and the ones who actually believe in a free market..
Anyway just curious, though, where did you get these quotes from?
Uhh, but that's not important. What i meant to ask about is this:
The net result is that until this decision is overturned on appeal, as I believe it will be, competition will not be restored.
I have been trying to figure this out. Can the current decision be appealed, who by (the dissenting states?), who to (the supreme court?) and if an appeal occurs does Microsoft have to abide by the terms of this settlement while that appeal is in the courts?
I'm also slightly confused by the judgement's language in one respect: when Microsoft doesn't obey the terms of this settlement, what will the result be? Does kotelly drag them back in and whap them with big contempt-of-court judgements until they comply, or do we get to start another six-year court case?
What happens next?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
This outrage results directly from the "regime change" in 2000, after a Democratic administration left that had opened and pursued the case against Microsoft, and at the time was smashingly successful. Then a Republican administration came to power -- in a hotly contested election, and thanks to one of the most widely condemned Supreme Court rulings in all of history. This administration never met a big business it didn't like, and one of its first decisions was to let Microsoft walk, even though the courts had nailed them to the wall.
George W. Bush has been deeply embarassed this past year when a number of Big Businesses turned about to be so outrageously criminal that there can no be conceivable excuse for them. The most notorious example, Enron, had been previously very cozy with the Texas oilman; but in statements that must have given him profound cognitive dissonance, W. has had to admit can the big companies can be just as criminal as a thug on a street who knocks over a liquor store.
But this idea just won't really sink in with the Republicans in charge. Microsoft has been a corporate crook all along, long before the Enron and Worldcom scandals, but Bush & Ashcroft just can't get it through their heads.
Politicians need to understand that they will be punished at the polls for this kind of sell-out. And in American politics, this means that the party in power that is responsible for the transgression has to take it in the chops on Election Day.
The midterm elections are taken as a referendum on the party that owns the White House. So American voters have the opportunity, this coming Tuesday, to send a message to Bush & Ashcroft that letting the big companies get away with everything and anything will not be tolerated.
You're not helpless against this ruling; your power is your vote. It might not be much, but it's the power you have, and no one can stop you from using it. On Tuesday, vote for a Democrat and give the Republicans the bitch-slap that they richly deserve.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
My first thought on reading the judgement was that Microsoft was getting away scott free, but did anybody read section VII. Further Elements.
Sua Sponte is defined on law.cornet.edu as
Lets assume that the judge is not stupid. She is well aware of Microsoft's legal history and how they will interpret the judgement. By getting Microsoft to agree to this rather open ended authority over every aspect of the judgement she can force a particular interpretation against Microsoft's wishes, and she can do it unilatrially without the participation of the DOJ or anyone else.
For example consider Microsoft's much maligned EULA regarding the specification for CIFS that prevents open source developers from using it. Section VII would allow the judge to declare that SAMBA has a "reasonable business need" for access and "meets reasonable, objective standards" regarding viability, or she could simply declare that the CIFS license is discriminatory. Either case could be used to force Microsoft to change the license.
I am sure that Microsoft knows the pitfalls of this section, but what choice do they have. This is their agreement, they negotiated it with the DOJ and argued in court long and hard that this was the best solution. Suddenly deciding now that they don't like it anymore is not a politically viable option and it would opens them up to charges of obstructionism.
I cant read minds, I don't know if this is actually the judges plan, however it would be a crafty way of forcing both a stricter settlement and a faster settlement.
Or it could simply be a drowning man grasping at straws.
1. Open Source still delivers the best product at the best price. That speaks for itself in any language. Full speed ahead. 2. When Microsoft goes bankrupt in five years and Open Source takes over the market, nobody will be able to whine that it was because of sanctions imposed by the government. 3. When the law doesn't protect The People, then The People are not bound by the law. With this ruling, the court has abdicated its authority with regards to the enforcement of antitrust law. We The People have thus been granted the absolute moral right to hack, pirate, and reverse engineer any Microsoft product or protocol to ensure competition and compatibility.
I am the biggest MS hater on the planet but the judge just handed us a big ole blessing in disguise. She just handed them the rope that will end up hanging them. They will most certainly use this big opportunity to turn the screws tighter on the competition as well as their own customers. This is going to continue to lead to more customer revolt, exactly what it happening today.
Got Code?
I'm disappointed by the decision but I'm even more disappointed by the inability of my fellow slashdotters to make a difference.
It's easy to bash Microsoft and praise Linux here. But what are you doing IRL? Are you leveraging your knowledge at your company to advocate OSS platforms....or do you just weigh in here and mod posts?
When a product is truly better (as I believe GNU/Linux to be) and when some really big companies are willing to back it (like IBM and Sun), all it takes is the backing of us "computer geeks" to affect the market.
Example: The last time a coworker came to me complaining about a Windows 98 problem that kept them from being able to boot to anything but safe mode, I didn't even try to explain that one of their virtual device drivers was corrupted. I fixed the driver problem, while telling them that the problem would probably never have occurred if they were running a different OS. That person happened to be one of the VPs of my company and they are now curious about GNU/Linux.
Unless you're actively affecting change, all your bitching is just noise.
--K.
Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
Someone can clarify this but the way I read #3, it had this at the end:
Doesn't this mean that Microsoft can only withold information that it's otherwise required to disclose if a government agency directs it to withold the information?
Just came here after a few hours of playing Counterstrike (and poorly), and all I could think was "Terrorists win". :)
People once dumped their inexpensive Apple II's, Commodores and TRS-80's for the more expensive IBM PC. The possiblity certainly exists that Mac OSX could take off in a big way, particularly since it is both easier to use than Windows, and more powerful.
.Net software figuring they can run it on mono and then discover that a new Microsoft API is available that's only available under windows because the new API's got a number of patents and royalty fees associated with it?
People dumped their inexpensive Apple II's and Commodores and TRS-80's because they all used IBM PC's at work and it made more sense to have the same machine at home as they had at work. Eventually the market share of these machines lead to the vast majority of software being developed for them and so they came to take over the market.
Linux distros are merely repackagers of software, slapping a user "friendly" veneers over it. There's nothing stopping a third party from slapping a better veneer over FreeBSD or NetBSD. This is what Apple did, and they're doing great because of it.
Doing great? In Q1 of 2002, Apple's market share for new computer sales was less than 3% of the market. That has been the case since at least 1999, regardless of OS X. They are hanging on to what they've got, but there's little evidence that they are going to be making any serious head way anytime soon.
I learned the painful lesson of the network effect back in the days of Atari. I an Atari 1040ST computer, and it was superior in every way to an IBM PC except for one REALLY important way. There were more IBM PC's out there. So, support for software dwindled, and my computer became worthless before it's time.
Linux becomes a viable option because it has a strong community of people around it developing for it. So even though there's not as much support amongst commercial vendors, one can accomplish a lot on Linux without them. So Linux isn't as hurt by the network effect as Apple is (especially because Linux runs on the same hardware as Windows).
But in order for linux to have real success going against Microsoft going forward, one of two things must happen. Either the nature of the computer marketplace has to change drastically or Linux has to be able to act as a drop-in replacement for Windows in existing networks. The first option is a possibility, no argument, but increasingly the second path is becoming very difficult.
What do the Samba people do when they can't implement Microsoft protocols? Do they start offering a closed source royalty laden version? I mean who would buy it when they can get that "free" from Microsoft. What happens when the people start writing
I'm not saying that somebody overthrowing Microsoft is impossible, but Linux is the best threat now. I think that this court case, had it ended in a better way, had a chance of helping out that cause. Linux may still do it on its own, but it's going to be a lot harder.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Over time, Microsoft will destroy itslef. It is the nature of the corporation to grow to a point where it is no longer nimble enough to compete with smaller quicker acting companies. Breakign Microsoft up, would create dozens of small nimble companeis all with the Microsoft culture. Nobody would be able to compete. The breakup of Standard Oil and AT&T shoudl serve as a grat lesson to all about corporate breakups; all they do is create companues which treat their customers worse and are more greedy than the original monopoly. Sears, Woolworth and all the othe large companies which grew huge, got arrogant and fell should serve as an indication of where Microsoft will eventually land.
Remember when Intel was forced to open the x86 architecture, because of that clones appeared and further entrnched the x86 architecture into the pc world. Had that not happened, the superior 68k architecture just might have supplanted the inferior x86 architecture.
At least the government has learned from the past
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
It's indeed invigorating to finally see that anti-competitive corporations like SUN and Netscape, after spending millions of dollars lobbying in Washington and hiring out the likes of Bob Dole and Judge Bork as paid, professional lobbyists--are in the end completely unsuccessful in using the government as a tool and a dupe to remove Microsoft as a competitor (as these companies were unable to do in the marketplace.)
It's gratifying to see that saner, cooler heads do, in the end, prevail. A lot of bad effects, not the least of which is the loss of public confidence in the technology sector, have come out of this decade-long drive by SUN and Netscape to run Microsoft out of business by slander, innuendo and accusation. It was always extremely naive of these companies to think that any negative effects from these actions would be neatly curtailed to Microsoft and would not spill out into the industry as a whole. Nothing good has come out of this suit for anybody, as far as I can see, and the best thing that has happened so far is that we are approaching the end of this embarrassing debacle (which saw grown men in front of Congress in televised hearings in which the topic of debate was not nuclear or biological disarmament, as the mood and emphasis would suggest, but rather THE EVILS OF THE INTERNET BROWSER INTERNET EXPLORER AND ITS THREAT TO ALL OF MANKIND.) Embarrassing is definitely the word.
In the recent years a few important things have been decided by our government which have actually helped me to start respecting it again--this is one of them. While the technology sector, of which I am undeniably a part, may wish to rend and tear itself to shreds in spasms of jealousy and envy, at least some of our government officials have their heads screwed on straight and are not nitwits to be manipulated by some highly paid snake-oil salesmen who served as lobbyists for companies like Netscape and SUN. Unfortunately, and predictibly, some of our government people were skillfully manipulated by appeals to their vanity achieved with an appreciation for their ignorance in technological matters, but in the end the ones with the real clout made the final decisions and have proven thmeselves to be anything but nitwits.
It's the first time in a long time I can say, "Three cheers for the government," and mean it. I *wish* I could say the same for the technology sector as a whole, but I can't.
PARTAY!!!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I think you are missing the full quotes.
From the AP:
She also eliminated a technical committee that would have enforced the settlement terms. In its place, a corporate committee - consisting of board members who aren't Microsoft employees - will make sure the company lives up to the deal. The judge also gave herself more oversight authority.
From NEWS.COM:
Kollar-Kotelly also modified the oversight of Microsoft's compliance with the settlement. Originally, the proposal included a technical committee and an internal compliance officer, both potentially influenced by Microsoft. In Friday's ruling, the judge combined the two into a compliance committee made up of Microsoft board members. In turn, the committee must hire a compliance officer, to report to the committee and to Microsoft's CEO. As corporate officers and non-Microsoft employees, the compliance committee in theory would be more likely to appropriately enforce the settlement in this era of renewed corporate responsibility.
It seems to make some sense since the board members (including Mr. Gates) can be held personally and financialy responsable for conduct that violates the settlement.
It ain't the best, but it's still better than ICANN.
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
This should have been filed under the "poke-them-with-the-soft-cushions dept"
I did, did you? :) Anyway, do you have some secret knowledge about the other content/meaning hidden in the formatting of the legal judgments than the actual characters representing the judgment. Otherwise, next time, come with an argument which is not analogy of "You died, because you dropped dead." :)
That's the watchdog. Not the committee. The committee is a figurehead- or a directive as to how to comply, and who is to be hands-on with complying with the judgement. She's having members of the board of directors get their hands dirty with it- possibly as a set-up in case they do continue to misbehave, so they can't claim ignorance.
I think Judge Kollar-Kotelly is pretty damned smart, really. Instead of doing squat to them now, she's setting up a situation in which IF they immediately reform, they get off scot free. And if they persist in misbehaving, it can backfire on them in more ways than you could imagine. She seems to have set it up that way- perhaps in the belief that, if she had acted more directly, the appeals court would overturn her remedy too? Note how she sucks up to the appeals court.
I however believe that it is too late for that. MicroSoft is way too powerful, so powerful that only "geeks in their parents basements" are willing to waste time to try to fight them. Every time you insult Linux you are adding proof to the fact that MicroSoft is a monopoly that has hurt the computer industry immesurably.
He needed to get some cash so he can buy a thousand pissant companies and "integrate" a few lines of code from each into portions of windows, since MS will not have to disclose "Communications protocols and APIs", where it would affect "3rd-party" IP.
There's nothing in the ruling that prohibits a company from licensing the information from Microsoft and selling a version for Linux.
That you won't get the resulting product for free is irrelevant to creating genuine competition in the marketplace. The important point is that the capability for interoperation exists.
I think it's high time the open source "community" wake up and start supporting the software marketplace instead of trying to tear it down.
sigh
That sucks.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So, let me get this straight, MS doesn't have to release the API's involving how programs interact to non-commercial entities? MS' biggest threat is GNU/Linux, yet they don't have to release the API's to how their programs interact with the OS to non-profits? What a crock of shit.
As someone else said, MS should be required to make ANY AND ALL RELEVANT information available to ANYONE who wants to make a product which interacts well with Windows, or who wants to make an OS which will interact well with programs designed to run on windows.
Even with these provisions, you need enforcement and quick resolution for conflicts. With such a resolution, MS would undoubtedly insist that what people were reasonably requiring from them isn't necessary for interoperability; thus, we need a quick way to resolve and enforce this within a matter of a few days, where MS can't appeal endlessly using their lawyer power.
This deal is a joke.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
"Today's decision provides certainty and stability to a vital sector of America's economy," Ashcroft said.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
True that they could be held responsible for misconduct, but would they be? Would they try and keep any evidence of misconduct from getting out?
It wouldn't be the first time (Worldcom et al), and I think it would have been better to mandate their be at least one (possibly more) unbiased, impartial representative on any such committee; someone who didn't answer to MS and wasn't on their payroll (although odds are they would be at some point, maybe have someone in for a set term?)
This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
That didn't happen (yet).
It didn't happen because the Bill of Rights has nothing to do with copyright (with the possible minor exception of the first amendment). The DMCA is unconstitutional because it exceeds congress's power to promote the progress of science and the useful arts under Article I, Section 8, Clause 8. Until the courts rule on that point, the DMCA will remain in effect.
I know it's not a popular opinion here at Slashdot, but until you give people like me a compelling reason to change, why should I ?
They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist;
They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object.
-- Martin Niemoller, German Protestant Pastor, 1892-1984
You have a valid point, but equally you should be careful that you are being pushed into a corner by Microsoft's practices whereby you'll be unable to change, unless you're very careful today, and you find that all your avenues of escape or appeal have been eliminated because, at that time, they weren't important to you.
So whilst you might be happy today, think about what this will mean for your options in the future - think also about the anecdote about boiling a frog.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
It really amazes me how many trolls are here on slashdot today. Oh well...
You are correct that breaking up Microsoft would not be capitalism. But then you throw in your marxist view of over-throwing capitalsm. What do you propose it be replaced with? Socialism? Communism? Oh yeah, those sure are the key to free enterprise. The truth is, in a truly capitalist society, there would be nothing to overthrow because there would be no central power. I hate to break it to you, but we don't live in a capitalist society. We live in an increasingly socalist world. You say that capitalsim is the powerlessness of the poor? Hah! powerlessness of the poor is when an oppressive government mandates laws that further seperate the lines between the rich and the poor. Study your history and you'll see that every time, yes EVERY time there has been a large difference between the rich and the poor, it has been the result of a large, oppressive governent. The only way to stop the division is a small government. And always remember, the initiation of force should always be your last available option, not your first.
There's nothing in the ruling that prohibits a company from licensing the information from Microsoft and selling a version for Linux.
Except for the fact that the licence forbids Redhat(for example) from including it in Linux. As I understand it this is the exact situation facing the Samba team. They could pay for the information, but the licence forbids them to use it.
Actually I can't say for certain that the licence forbids it because the LICENCE ITSELF is locked behind a non-disclosure contract.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
to "Slashdote" (verb), when a geek stares in awe at something technology related, cooing over it, showering it in praise. (Derived from modern English: slash from slashdot and dote from... well... dote)
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will! - Antonio Gramsci.
$71,415,000,000 I'd gladly lose 99.99% of that fortune and still be Set For Life.
Or 99.999% and buy a Killer House
Or 99.9999% and buy a Killer Car
Or 99.99999% and buy a Killer PC
Or 99.999999% and hire a Killer.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
The ruling says that they must not discriminate against companies that offer more than one O/S via a boot manager. It doesn't restrict them from retaliating against a vendor that offers Windows on Product A and Linux (single boot) on Product B. If companies want to ship a Linux box as a side-line they will have to spin-off the product (thereby losing brand awareness) to protect their core business.
And, her court RETAINS AUTHORITY over them for five years, and can unilaterally change the judgement in any way. Repeat, unilaterally- she does not need their permission or even the request of a plaintiff to do so. Hell, she could break them up four years in, if she wished. They never left court! They're still in court, and if you don't like the judgement, well, literally any part of it could be changed to anything, at Kollar-Kotelly's whim.
If the board won't release information, that's what the State inspectors are for- and you know quite well that most of the low nasty stuff they do is quite public- if they decide IBM isn't professional enough to get info on SMB, that's not going to be a secret thing, it'll be a public move on their part- and again, the judge specifically warned them against making up reasons, and is aware of that situation and tendency.
Don't underestimate the reality that the court document can legally be changed by the judge at any time- if they sign off on that, she's got them. If you don't like it, wait until they do something with the loopholes, write to Colleen and ask her to change it.
Most loophole laden judgements are final documents. This one is a trap, if I'm not mistaken. It is begging to be abused- but any of the loopholes can be closed off with a simple court order, AND the board would be held personally responsible for abusing it, and no new court proceeding would be needed.
Two words: 'briar patch'. Oh, please don't abuse those loopholes, Mr Gates, who is now personally responsible for abiding by the judgement.
What I'm wondering is: could this lead to criminal charges against Microsoft board members? As in, Gates in federal prison? That would be a mind blower, and it is not impossible at this point. Remember he's now being held personally responsible rather than being able to hide behind the corporate veil.
This seems to be a case of over-reaction. The section, Windows XP provides no local security of the article says, "Windows XP has two fundamental security limitations. One is true of all operating systems. The other is true only of all Microsoft Windows operating systems, and is not a problem with BSD or Linux, for example."
Earlier versions of the article were worded in such a way that they might be mis-interpreted. Is it possible that you did not re-load the article, and you are reading a version in your browser cache? There is a warning about this at the beginning of the article.
The current version was last updated October 28, 2002.
There is controversy about the problem listed. Windows XP, and all versions of Windows, have the vulnerability listed. The Windows OS opens many, many hidden system-level windows. Theoretically, it is possible to exploit any of these to gain full system access. However, Chris Paget has not produced a demonstration of this.
The point of the section is clearly stated, "A lot of managers are being allowed to believe that Windows XP is secure under conditions in which it isn't secure. Since it is necessary to supply a password, the impression is created that there is no other way of gaining access."
The Seattle Post Intelligencer has a different take on this - they've digested the ruling, and it looks like judge Kollar-Kotelly may not have sold out as completely as some may think.
Here's the link - look at the quote from Machiavelli's The Prince, the reference to sua sponte discretion, and holding the directors that spoke at the trial personally responsible for upholding the intent of the agreement.
In fact, MS may reject the agreement themselves, now. And that may be what Judge K-K was after.
good points from dytin...
What do you propose it be replaced with? Socialism? Communism?
although one fears being terribly redundant by saying this, it's an excellent point that has to be made, and illustrates a very critical element about those making the anti-capitalist argument: THEY DO NOT USE REASON and do not "think through their proposal."
when i was foolish enough to argue with these types, I'd constantly hear their response to this question being "anything is better than capitalism." when you bring up examples of alternatives (nearly any good socialist system is effective), they'd respond with "well, at least i'm trying. you have to try *something*."
the only puzzle i'm still left with is why these people, who are usually moderately intelligent, permit themselves to think so sloppily?
unfortunately, i think you've got to look at nihlism, self-hatred, deviance, denial and rationalizing behavior used to cover up these defects as the source for their fragmented thinking.
a rational, non-defective person can understand there really are two types of systems:
1. one based on the right of the individual, where the mechanism for exchange is trade, and the individual has full liberty to trade or not trade.
or
2. one based on holding a gun to people's heads.
unfortunately, even the US has not seen option 1 in true form for 200 years, and the current trend is one of idiots like JonKatz screaming they feel left out in the world without a gun to their head...
*scoove*
I know it may seem strange but Linux is about the only product to benefit from this flawed decision.
The reason is simple but not easy to see.
Microsoft has been given the go-ahead to continue to force the sale of many key Microsoft branded applications just by simple packaging (or commingling). Allowing icons to be moved around is meaningless. But, how does this benefit Linux?
Linux will always include a lot more software than any Microsoft product. That is true today and it will be even more true tomorrow and on into the future. What this decision does is almost make certain that Microsoft will continue to bundle a whole slew of applications with it's operating system keeping the price high and out of site. That benefits Linux tremendously.
If Microsoft were forced to split off some of these applications, they would also be offering a barebones OS which would cost a lot less. Without that obligation on their part it is unlikely they will make that choice on their own leaving Microsoft stuff always overpriced, insecure (due to all the crap with bugs) and in appropriate for just about all markets.
The one advantage that Linux has over Microsoft is the ability to offer multiple distributions for many key markets. Just look at Xandros (and now SuSE) offering CrossOverOffice along with the OS but Mandrake leaving that out. Other distros could include StarOffice but leave out CrossOver, etc. The result will be a wide selection of Linux choices all of which cost less than Microsoft but do not all include everything. If any distro wants to include everything (including those packages that do cost money), it would likely be just as expensive as Microsoft now.
But, the Linux market can specialize its distributions. Those companies that want the CrossOver capability can get it with the distro they pick. Those companies that prefer the Xandros File Manager and CrossOver can pick it. Those that only want true Linux applications including OpenOffice (no premium added on) can pick from lessor cost distros.
Microsoft could bring out 6 different versions of their XP product. But, they will not until such time as they think competition requires it. But, then it will be too late.
By then all serious software companies will focus upon Linux simply because their ability to grow and expand will not be illegally cut short by Microsoft. There is a reason why all non-Microsoft browsers are cross platform. And, there is a very good reason why all new browsers will also be cross platform. Microsoft has and will preclude any such market on Microsoft systems.
The problem is that even though Linux will benefit, consumers for the moment remain screwed. And, the industry also remains suspended. Not the Linux part of the industry. But, the Microsoft part. And, that in the long term is going to cut Microsoft out of the industry itself. It is only a matter of time until all software developes choose Linux (or some other platform) to operate free of illegal Microsoft activity.
This all assumes that OEMs can market non-Microsoft systems. And, while this is somewhat questionable today, there is no way that HP, IBM, DELL, GateWay and others are going to allow SUN to have that market all to itself. As indeed, some of them already try to approach particular market segments with Linux products. But, that will expand as the SUN and WalMart type companies begin to make some real money selling Linux desktops.
In the long run this decision is fine. In the short run it is meaningless.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
What a surprise!! Microsoft gets a slap on the wrist, if THAT. This is the most pathetic
excuse of a ruling I've seen. There are almost
no harsh restrictions, and the agreement is
designed to allow MS to worm their way to even
following those.
I am referring the following text:
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties:
(a) portions of APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation, keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or
(b) any API, interface or other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
With Palladium being the next big thing from Microsoft, Bill and co. are going to be able to avoid the terms of the settlement for a great deal of key things that SHOULD follow under the settlement. MS can just say, "This stuff doesn't fall under the settlement because if it did it
would compromise the "security" of Palladium."
I believe that the current Justice Department, under the leadership of Heir Ashcroft, put this part of the agreement in KNOWING that Microsoft would abuse it. The current administration
obviously (for whatever reason) does not WANT
Microsoft to be punished. They probably want MS to deploy Palladium without a hitch.
There is more than likely a behind the scenes deal going on between Ashcroft and Microsoft. In
exchange for this settlement, MS will probably
allow the government access to the data/control
of Palladium so that they can "protect us from
Terrorists" (read: control our PCs) and
"investigate potential terrorists" (read: spy on everyday citizens, and people outside the US).
Just the thing to expect from Fuhrer Bush's administration, after all.
The only real punishment for Microsoft would have been a massive breakup (the breakup Judge Jackson proposed wouldn't have done the trick). OS goes to one company. Productivity software goes to one company. Internet software goes to one company. Games (including DirectX APIs) go to one company.
The X-Box and other "home entertainment hardware" goes to an entirely different company. Other hardware (mice, keyboards) goes to another.
And so forth. There would be tons of restrictions on each of these companies, and there would have been lots of government oversight related to interaction between these companies.
Of course, that's not what happened. Instead we have Microsoft as it always was, except now Palladium pretty much has the backing of the government. Nice.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
"Play it a bit less dramatic, and you'll find you come off as more credible and thereby get more market penetration.
I am eager to do as you say. Any guidance you have for me is welcome. However, as of 10 minutes ago 17,289 people (mostly Slashdot readers and their friends) have visited the article. Many people have responded to the request for corrections at the beginning of the article. I've made corrections whenever they were suggested and technically correct. (I haven't yet answered the last 5 messages though; I've been busy with other things.) It is a fact that any installation of Windows 98 SE can be crashed by loading too many programs in memory. Windows 98 SE is reliably unreliable. I stand by my statement of that problem.
There is an interesting social phenomenon here. No matter what someone says about Microsoft, there is someone that doesn't know about that particular abuse or problem who says that the writer is being too hard on Microsoft. So, abused users fight amongst themselves rather than recognizing the huge number of problems and abuse.
I ran a voicemail machine using a 386SX-16 and Windows 3.11 for 7 years with no downtime due to OS failure.
I agree that MS Office is extremely buggy and quirky. I rarely use it, but when I do, I often have problems. Recently I told a friend about one problem, and his response was to tell me several much more scary stories of problems he had had.
Remember, although the article is 12,000 words long, it touches on only a very, very few Microsoft abuses.
Chris says that there is no window security. Everyone seems to agree about this. The problem a writer has when writing about Microsoft is that there is so much material it is not possible to check out everything. The lack of local security is the only problem listed in the article that I have not personally verified. Brian Livingston, the famous columnist is linked in the article saying what I've said here, so it is news reporting until I can give it a try myself.
I will *not* be voting for the incumbent junior Senator from South Carolina, Mr. Ernest 'Fritz' Hollings, be he ever so Democratic.
It is interesting what you say. I realize I need to know more about this.
Questions: Is it true, then, that to have security we are trusting every Windows program that runs with system-level authority to check for invalid addresses? Since people are migrating from Windows 98, isn't it likely that many programs are not written with this requirement in mind? Is there any list of insecure programs? Everyone seems to agree that it is possible to elevate privileges if McAffee's old virus program is running. What other programs are commonly used that allow users to elevate from guest to administrator?
When someone writes an SUID program in Unix, or uses one, they are particularly aware that there is a problem with privilege. Is it possible that there is no real comparison with Windows programs?
Sysinternal's free utilities PMon v1.0 and Process Explorer v5.25 show a lot of system activity. I know that Windows XP opens a huge number of system-level windows. Is it possible that Microsoft has not checked all of these, so that there are some Windows XP system processes that do not check the process ID or address space? Chis Paget says in his letter to me that is quoted in my article that Microsoft violates its own guidelines. Are you saying this is not true?
There are two issues, it seems to me. What is the usual security that average installations of Windows 2000 or Windows XP owners get, considering that few people understand the vulnernabilities? Second, what is the best possible security that can be achieved by someone who does understand?
Every Windows 2000 or Windows XP program is connected to every other through a single main registry file called SOFTWARE. (The name is in all caps and has no file name extension.) On one machine, for example, this file is 25.69 megabytes; it is a huge file considering that it contains configuration information. It is possible that the vulnerability mentioned by Chris Paget could be combined with a registry access vulnerability? Do all programs that run with administrator-level check their registry entries?
My article, Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going, is particularly useful to an executive who has authority over tens or hundreds or thousands of systems. The article warns about technical issues a CEO might not otherwise understand. It is interesting to know about the problems that are likely given normal knowledge of system administrators, rather than just those that cannot be defended against and affect everyone.
I included the privilege escalation issue because Brian Livingston took it seriously, not because I checked it myself. All or almost all other problems in the article are ones I checked myself.
"Except for the fact that the licence forbids Redhat(for example) from including it in Linux."
I don't see how you can say this with a straight face.
The Microsoft license is no different then the one MetroX uses, and Redhat shipped with that. Actually this would be a boon to Redhat as it would allow them to offer something in their product which differentiated themselves from the competition, and since it's not licensed under the GPL their competitors couldn't steal it.
"As I understand it this is the exact situation facing the Samba team. They could pay for the information, but the licence forbids them to use it."
No you are confused. The license does not forbid anyone from using it, it just forbids them from giving it away to others. There's a huge distinction here.
The choice the Samba team has made is that they want to give away their stuff. That's fine, but such choices should not be confused for forcing other companies to do the same.
Geeze, Michael, wake up! It took you two days to mod this down. Whazza matter? Too many anti-Michael posts to squish them all in the same day?
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
It's 4:40 AM, and I have not thoroughly read this post. I will read it this evening.
Microsoft may offer 6 systems but I mean 6 that consumers buying PCs by the thousands can choose between.
A company looking to outfit 10,000 desktops does not have but one perhaps two choices from Microsoft. And, the highly insecure and inferior Microsoft products bundled in make both those choices too expensive.
It is one thing to lie about IE being free to the public. It is another to R&D IE on an ongoing basic without having it affect the price of the product it is bundled with. IE was only free when downloaded (or otherwise not associated with the payment of money). That is the economic reality.
The Microsoft Media player is in the same position. They can lie that it is free when you pay $200-$250 for the OS. But, they still have to fork over the R&D monies. And, they simply can not compete with free software.
Linux (even the ones you pay for) will always be cheaper because of its ability to offer a multitude of choices each geared for a particular market.
For example, there is great value in Xandros and SuSE offering CrossOver Office with their distros albeit for a price. If corporate accounts want to run the Microsoft crap on Linux they can. But, it would disadvantage Linux if all distros had to pay the cost for those added technologies. Mandrake (and others) can undersell Xandros and SuSE versions as long as they include CrossOverOffice. And, that applies to any and all technologies (such as StarOffice) that serve to increase the cost and eventually the retail price of the product.
That is a flexibility that only Linux will provide unless Microsoft abandones its illegal activities as being harmful to its own interests. And, no, the Server, Web Appliance, DataCenter, Tablet and Media Center editions do not help the business office nor the individual PC consumer. They remain with no choices from Microsoft except the high priced bundled of inferior products which they are forced to use and support.
Not interested. And, neither will be the consumer once their choices are made clear.
Those that want enhanced technology can buy that. Those who want a cheaper version without all the extra expensive crap can get that. But, only on Linux.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Look, there is a place for this pro-Democrat FUD, and it's called the Democratic National Convention.
This decision has NOTHING to do with Ashcroft, Kotelly was the judge, and she was a CLINTON appointee. When it comes down to it, JACKSON blew this case, and the states didn't feel like waiting around for a Part 2, so most settled for crap. I can't blame DOJ, and I'm not sure that it would have been too different under Clinton. Though misguided, it's hard to argue with the idea that getting consumers some benefit is better than retrying the case until it's irrelevant and Microsoft no longer cares, so they settle.
Anyone see what Harvey Pitt's been doing lately?
I hear what NPR tells me, since they hate all things Bush administration. Face it, he could have crucified Ken Lay and you still wouldn't have thought it was enough, because he's a Republican.
We wuz robbed! Gore in '04!
I don't like Bush too much either, but running Gore is the best way to ensure his re-election. And don't start with that "robbed" crap, if you want to discount fraudulent ballots, like those cast by convicted felons that were 90+% Gore, it wouldn't have been close.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat