Slashdot Mirror
Jedi Archives In Dublin Library?
bill_gates_jnr writes "When Attack of the clones came out many Dubliners thought that the Jedi Archives looked similar to a landmark in Dublin, the Long Room in Trinity College Dublin. The library administrator of TCD, Robin Adams has story written a letter to Lucasfilms suggesting the company should acknowledge a debt to the original architect Thomas Burgh. " I was in the Long Room a few years ago - it's a gorgeous room. But while we're acknowledge debts, perhaps Lucas can also acknowledge a more significant debt.
So... it just looks similiar... but they didn't actually film in the room? Then why does GL need to give them credit?
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage. RAmen.
The Long Room in Trinity College Dublin. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Hey why doesn't everyone just whine about how Lucas should attribute some credit to anything that is remotely like their favorite movie/show?
Hemos, what other debt are you speaking of? I looked at the article you linked to, but couldn't find anything about Lucas.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d Capitalization really works: i helped my uncle jack off a horse
You mean Lucas borrows material from other people and does not credit them for it. I can't believe it. /naive
I agree with the observation, but to Lucas' credit (grr, I hate crediting Lucas with anything) he has, indeed, stated his debt to Kurosawa many times.
"This is not the library you are looking for. Move along."
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
I've felt a great disturbance in the force...
Like a million hits on a web server that cried out in pain and was suddenly silenced.
My first year calculus professor should be credited with inventing the absolutely annoying and incomprehensible language that Jar Jar speaks!
using System.Awesome;
For bibliophiles, this room is right up there with the old reading room at the British Museum or the Library of Congress' reading room.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Next you're going to tell us that Lucas stole the idea for Weirding Modules from the book.
A few more photos that aren't slashdotted. [yet]
Talk about the quitessential library. I bet it's the most photographed library in Ireland.
it's not going to stop until you wise up, no it's not going to stop. so just give up.
I'll have to chime in on the Dune 'credit' issue. Really I would rather not have such a banal work associated with anything related to Dune.
Although reading the Dune thread that is linked, I noted that the slashdot crowd must have been smoking something damned fine when they were watching the mini-series/reading the book. It's really too bad I can't comment on it...
From March 13, 2002. Has some (currently) not /.ed pics too.
to the Super Mario who have to find his way throw a dangerfield and save the princess...
This is the same story Lucas use in Episode IV.
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
Another story (three or four links deep from the above links) here, and the Google cache here.
Do not read this sig.
A dingo ate my baby!
good job slashdotting the picture of the Long Room! Ireland's getting SLAMMED !!
Now that Ireland has no more net access, perhaps they could do something different, such as go for drinks or have a large fight at a soccer game.
Trolling is a art,
After all, the AT&T logo looks like the DeathStar...
The descendants of Edison because of similarities between the saber and the common light bulb, the Ford corporation for Lucas' use of the flying car, and Ziggy Marley for George's obvious portrayal of his dad Bob.
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
xlaugh - you fall on the floor laughing hysterically
Post Nuclear War - text based mud, no x-windows required.
I believe everything I do, say, write or output in any other form is a combination what I have noticed around me before. So, should I, in the end of this comment post the list of everything that has given me input and therefore affected the content of this comment, including the numerous typing errors :) Some individuals might be able to output a higher percentage of unique content - but atleast in my case 99.999% is combinations of previous observations. To begin with, I would like to give credit to my father, mother and the midwife who helped me get outa there. Or maybe, the credits list should start earlier, maybe I should give credit to the authors of the music pieces which I heard while in the womb. I don't intend to troll, but I would like to argue that about nothing is unique.
"I Like stories."
I guess the story here is that someone actually cares about something so trivial!
If I was going to that University it'd be pretty cool, other than that, this is just a bit of movie trivia that really matters not at all!
Curiously enough, the archive scene was completely absent from Attack of the Clones the IMAX version.
I dont think it is quite the same as the archives. Mainly because I dont think the archives' site would get so easily /.ed.
the hardcore fans are all geeks!
Anything you say will be held against you.
Furthermore, what kind of credit is expected? Few sets, digital or physical, are created ab novo. Need there be an attribution for every filmed space that was inspired by another? Should this be limited to notable public buildings or to parks too? Should I hound the film major who set a scene in what looks remarkably like my old apartment's living room in which he once got drunk?
Did Lucas Film "rip off" that library? Who knows. Certainly enough other library rooms look like it, need they all get plaques? Indeed I used to live down the street from a former fire station in Boston that was notable for having its hose-drying tower built like a Venetian campanile. When that was built it started a trend of lots of other fire stations being built soon thereafter looking similar - should all of them put up plaques attributing their inspiration?
Extending "Trade Dress" to spaces - Feh.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
-dB
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
I didn't see any "long room" in the IMAX version of ATOC last week....
*waves hand thru air*
We did not clone the Dublin Libraries for the movie, and no we do not have overdue late charges on "Scottish Clans and Tartans".
--"The perfect example of the man of action is the suicide." - William Carlos Williams
When Princess Leia is being interrogated by Darth Vader : "The more you tighten your grip, the further the sperm squirts from your penis.
Your sig utterly rocks. Just had to say. The world needs more Van Dyke Parks references.
"Slashdot is about legos and staplers." -Cmdr. Taco
After reading the article about Robin Adams, it is just amazing to me, as always, what people will sue other people over.
Hey, you have the same color hair as I do, I'm going to sue you!! You farted and the stink covered my jeans, so I'm going to sue you for defamation of character and pain and suffering.
Anyone who even mentions bringing a lawsuit against someone else over something as stupid as that really needs to have an intimate encounter with a lightsaber.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d Capitalization really works: i helped my uncle jack off a horse
quoting from the "begind the scenes" section of the star wars databank on the jedi archives:
The stately architecture and vaulted ceilings of the Jedi Archives Room were inspired by a variety of real-world libraries, including the Vatican and those found in old English estates. A bare minimum of the set was constructed -- only Kenobi's immediate work area and several busts were constructed. The majority of the scenery -- the rows and rows of holobooks and high ceilings -- were realized as miniatures.
so if any inspiration came from dublin, it wasn't in full...
NO! NO! don't mod me! I'm too young to die a troll. {click} Oh the pain, the pain...
Lucas owes Akira Kurosawa the most.
Both of them stole from Mimas, one of Saturn's moons!
Image.
Throw a Dangerfield to save the princess? No respect at all. No respect I tell ya.
Yes, if I duplicate your stuff almost exactly and hurt your business, then copyright should kick in. However:
- Set designers need to build sets based on existing architecture.
- Cartoonists should be able to draw an eyeball even if they saw other green eyeballs in the 60's. [back on that discussion, Blizzard could say both groups stole it from their Warcraft 2 'Eye of Kilrog']
- Musicians should be able to use any set of notes, not worrying that a particular set of 4 notes will get them in copyright issues.
- Any other creative art (programming, artistry, city planning, construction, &c.) requires the use of elements that are used elsewhere, or that may have been discovered by someone else for the same purpose.
Or in summary: All great works are based upon the works that came before, and while credit is always appropriate, unless there is some actual harm done in the use, there should never be talks of lawsuits or licensing or copyright violations.Frob.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
i mean imagine their surprise when they found out other cultures ALSO store their knowledge in large rooms full of books!!
Seems the Long Room webpage is slashdotted already. There isn't much to see there anyway, as Google shows.
That'll teach you for messing with GL.
Methinks some librarian is looking for increased banner revenue...
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Jigga what?
Seriously, who gives a flying rat's ass? So the library looks like a library somewhere else. Gee, I bet that never happened before. Maybe I'm just not articulate enough, but I have been in many libraries with many strikingly similar layouts. It could have something to do with the way books are organized in principle, who knows... and again, who cares?
~ now you know
Make a room in ep.3 that looks like a big wood box all painted white with brass accents. He'd have about 4000 New England Congregational churches suing him.
Jonathan
I don't think there is much of a similarity except that both versions feature a great hall. :)
The real one is wooden, old fashioned and has a beautifully barrel-vaulted ceiling. The fictional one contains strangly glowing book-like cubes, which might be data-banks. And even then it doesn't contain "all the knowledge accumulated by a ancient order" since you can (and have to) ask the secretary if the obviously not-so-mighty database fails to come up with an answer to your request.
There shouldn't be too much fuss about credits. The fictional version is no where near as impressive as stumbling into the fantastic Long Room after having just glimpsed the famous Book of Kells.
Jan
An article, about a college that wants George Lucas to credit an architect, whose work has been changed and remodeled several times, for inspiration creating a scene in a movie that half the people who saw it can hardly remember.
.
And the article is brought to us by : bill_gates_jnr
I can predict next weeks article: State of Utah demands Lucas credit God for use of "desert motif" in Tatooine scenes of Star Wars.
There is no lawsuit regarding this issue, the article merely said it was considered, but most likely they were presented with the fact that there are several libraries that look like this.
This is not the way to build a lasting empire.
TM
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
If he didn't thank Kurosawa for the story of the original Star Wars (remember back when the Star Wars films were almost good?) then why should he credit someone for one room?
I'm actually disappointed to be wasting time commented on such trivia as this alleged story. Oh well.
I don't need to do anything, it is free money (well, rebate coupons, actually). The American dream (do nothing, get paid) realized at last. I actually have to do something to NOT get included in this ridiculous nonsense.
The system is FUBAR.
Don't you mean Thomas Mallory
Come to think of it Kurasawa probably owes Mallory a lot, who owes a lot to Tennyson, who owes a lot to...
I guess linking to this article and Whacking Day have one thing in common--they were created as an excuse to beat up the Irish.
And you're so clever for spotting it and telling the world that you know what he's talking about!
Ep 6 was filmed in the jungles of Guatemala - when the government found it out, they were quite upset, and tried to get them to credit the location (the jungle forests are quite beautiful, too), so now they have ironclad restrictions on filming in Guatemala.
Inconceivable!
They used round balls that look like planets
too. One or two Maybe even look like the Earth.
Wow! Where did they get their ideas? Too
much trying to ride on someones coat tails.
Go ahead, mod me down. That alone will be far more interesting than this wee SlashBit.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Well, it should be Trinity College who should be crediting LucasFilm for this blatant rippoff "Deathstar" from RTOTJ:
http://www.tcd.ie/Library/Images/sphblue.jpg
is he going to have to give credit to the saharan desert also? Most ideas are regurgitated ideas of an earlier time.
Anyways, in one scene (on Naboo?), there is a building that is very clearly inspired from the Plaza de Espana, in Sevilla, Spain.
It would be nice to include credit for the inspirations, if only to acknowledge that human creativity can positively benefit from past creations. Although it is definately not a legal requirement.
IV, V and VI are NOT nearly as good from a visual point of view as I, II and very likely III are. Not even close.
The best way to describe them is to describe them like the bible.
I, II and III are like the old testament; pretty stunning visual effects, but rather lame story.
IV, V and VI are like the new testament; pretty stunning story, but rather lame visual effects.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
I don't know if they give it credit, but they also blatantly used the Plaza de España in Seville, Spain. I've been there twice and I noticed it immediately when I saw the film.
r e, buggy java)
Here's a link: http://www.sol.com/monumentos/plazaesp.htm
(bewa
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. -Victor Hugo
I don't know where this came from.
However, I have tears rolling down my cheeks. I'm at work, people are staring at me.
Here comes the boss....
*submit*
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d Capitalization really works: i helped my uncle jack off a horse
Lawrence Lessig, in his keynote presentation made on July 24, 2002 at oscon, repeatedly made the four point argument:
He made this argument while arguing against lengthy copyright terms, but I think the first point applies here: any creative work, such as Star Wars, builds upon the library of existing human work. It's nearly pointless to try to credit every single contributor to that existing compendium of knowledge. I guess it's a judgement call of when you should give credit, but this one feels ok to leave out, to me. (And the actual library will be a trivia factoid for years to come, this way.)
The reason I personally disliked that scene in Episode 2 is that it took place in a physical library at all, instead of being a four second web search. Kenobi doesn't Yahoo, apparently.
"It's really too bad I can't comment on it..."
Why not, worst that'll happen is a -1 score (off topic), right? Here goes, item by item of the first poster in the dune thread:
"Paul had his sons in the next book and not one of them was killed in the first."
Wrong, Leto II was born and killed in the first book.
"The emporer's daughter was created solely for this television adaption."
Again, BS. She was in the novel, but aside from quotes at the beginning of chapters, did not appear in the novel until the end.
"There were no weirding modules in the television mini as there should have been, nor did Paul use the weirding voice to crash the ship that was taking he and his mother over the desert! Key to the development of the character's awareness of his abilities!"
There were NO weirding modules in the book!! They were only in the Lynch movie (much better than the miniseries, IMHO, see rant at end of post). I honestly don't remember if Paul used the Voice in the miniseries when being taken out to the desert. He did so in the book and the Lynch movie.
"Duncan did not rescue Paul and his mother from the deep desert."
He did in the book. Hah-hah!!
"They never attacked the Harkonans(sic) until Paul was Moadib(sic) and they had the weirding modules."
Again...no weirding modules....Otherwise, I'm not sure what the poster was referring to.
"He DID NOT marry the fabricated emporer's (sic) daughter in the book! Complete garbage!"
Technically, he didn't marry her in the book. It was being arranged and he did it between books 1 and 2. But he did, indeed, marry the emperor's daughter, that's how he got to be emperor...
"Oh, and the guy playing Gernie(sic) sucked a dead donkey's balls dry. He was horrible!"
I completely agree with this statement!!! Except that it's spelled 'Gurney'.
Now, for the rant on why I think the Lynch movie is better.
The Sci-Fi miniseries was definitely more true to the book then the Lynch movie, but as far as movies go, it bit the big one.
The Effects:
The special effects were very impressive, very crisp and clean. Great for the space scenes. But a desert is dirty and dusty. It took me a while to figure out why I didn't like the visuals, and it was simply this: the desert was too clean and crisp.
The Acting:
William Hurt was horrible, it seemed as though he was just saying his lines in the most monotone voice he could manage.
I didn't have any particular problem with the guy playing Paul (Alec Newman), I just like Kyle MacLachlan's version better.
Gurney.....He sounded like an idiot. He had that pseudo-cockney accent and spoke really slowly, as though he had a hard time getting the words out. The Lynch movie had Patrick "Gads, what a monster!" Stewart. 'Nuff said.
One thing I liked about the miniseries was how the 'weirding way' was portrayed. They were moving so fast as to be a blur of motion.
Well, that's my take on it. I know it's offtopic, but the previous Dune article was posted before I started reading slashdot, so I missed out. Ah, there'll probably be another one when the next miniseries comes out (shudder).
I mean, really, who the hell cares? You can not create anything in a vacuum anymore. No matter how hard you try, you can not help but be influenced by things, ideas, places, people, etc... that already exists, often without you even knowing about it.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Yo Da Man, if you visit this library!
nice one grub, and especially the mods.
for the future, here's some similar jokes for other cultures:
- blacks are lazy, and like fried chicken
- native americans drink too much
- jewish people are notoriously cheap and not to be trusted in business affairs
- puerto rican people wear hair-nets and carry switchblades
the post was mildy funny (to this second generation irish-american) but c'mon now.
You can easily see the likeness to the Vatican library as depicted here, not to mention many others including the Escorial and Laurentian libraries.
ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
Say it with me.
Lucasfilm
NOT
Lucasfilms.
Unfortunately it doesnt move but it looks excellent.
Does anyone have any info on that sculpture? The TCD page was not terribly helpful. I know that there was a very similar one in a courtyard in the Vatican that captivated me, but memory fades, and searching for "giant cracking brass death star" doesn't point to any art history resources.
If any liberal arts types out there can help me out here, I'd be most grateful.
And since Dune has pretty fucking little to do with Star Wars (Try "the hidden fortress" instead, if you want to be a pissy fan boy), I think it's time that Taco also acknowledged a debt he owes.
Don't any of you have real lives?
How many of you have even kissed a girl?
In a pretty regularly rerun interview with Campbell by Bill Moyers, Lucas is also interviewed and explores quite a bit that he "took" from Campbell for Star Wars, or at least where he agrees with Campbell's work. I remember catching it a while back on PBS (public TV in the US), and it was pretty interesting, though it peeved me Campbell acted like this was some discovery of his (see more at the end of this post).
Here's a copy of DVD. From the description on that site:
Joseph Campbell: The Power Of Myth
Year: 2002
On Video: October 2, 2001
Starring: Joseph Campbell
Bill Moyers
George Lucas
Genre: Documentary
Synopsis: An interview with master storyteller and mythology professor Joseph Campbell. Features an interview with George Lucas exploring the mythology of Star Wars.
And all of this came from Carl Jung, who coined the term archetype, and had written volumes on the Wise Old Man years before Campbell was out of diapers.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
Get a new "slashdotted a star wars site" joke, please.
"And like that
Perhaps Star Wars has some similarities to Hinduism, but how does that apply to Star Wars having similarities to Dune? Dune was pretty firmly based on Islamic and Buddhist ideas, not Hindu. Mostly Islamic, though.
So Lucas borrowed a library design--or possibly just a style that is quite common in many older libraries. If he's going to steal stuff, it's good that it's public domain stuff. It's a little depressing that it's better than a lot of the original bits of AOTC, however.
This is not the news you're looking for. Move along.
~Idarubicin
He just wanted to appear "in the know"!
holy $@#! was that ever funny. :)
(not trolling, actually serious)
John Williams owes a debt to Richard Wagner, as well. The way he constructs his music around the movie, incorporating and transforming the themes for the characters and actions in the movie is very similar to Wagner's synthesis of drama and music. His operas, especially the Ring cycle, appear to me to have had a profound effect on Williams' musical thought. There are two ways of looking at this though - not everyone in the world thinks that using someone else's work entitles that someone else to an acknowledgement. There is also the idea that the use of the idea IS the acknowledgement itself, especially in art. Artists will use hints of other people's work in order to show the respect that they have for the other artist. Not everyone has a contraining view of intellectual property.
Quick Victoria Building in Sydney.
The Cleveland Arcade
Etc. I'm sure there are many more, but this is not in any way a unique architectural style that was used.
What?
I saw the Imax version of SW eps2 the other night, and my friends said that they cut out the archive scene, now that I think of it, I don't remember it, just the 'jedi kindergarten' Maybe they cut it out because of the complaint? Who knows.
There were also a few other scenes cut apparently. But seeing Nately Portman 5 stories tall, what a sight for sore eyes.
I hope I posted right, this is my first one.
--Splynn
George drove by my house one night (I'm pretty sure) and saw one of the shrubs in front of my house. I know because it looks just like the shrubs in episode 1. I want him to call me and thank me personally for growing such a fabulous shrub for him to copy. And give me money. And I want to be Darth in episode 3.
Surely, given that AOtC happened a long time ago, should Thomas Burgh not be crediting the Jedi Masters?
Noims
This is not the greatest sig in the world. This is just a tribute.
Certainly you've watched over someone's shoulder as they search the web. In my experience, that's only slightly less painful than the 'makeout in the meadow' scene.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
...I can't advise using this library for your astronomy homework.
"Creativity and innovation always builds on the past."
So I guess Lessig thinks MS is an innovator after all.
bahahaahah!
politicaly correct pansy. You must be one of those drunken Micks I see on CNN all day.
Only the Simpsons. Is there another show that comes anywhere close?
Here's a small image that compares the two:6 708346 613.html
http://www.ireland.com/images/2002/1112/103
Jesus sues Lucasfilm Ltd. for adapting his virgin birth to the big screen. Mr. Christ was quoted as saying "I disagree that any similarity with any person living or dead is", before using airquotes, "purely coincidental".
Big frickin whoop! Anyway, go check out the DVD it is awesome!
--Joey
A general /. question: How to find the year
of an archived post. The one referred to
says "Wednesday December 06, @10:21AM"
but no year. I feel information deprived! :-)
Am I missing something?
... not a screenshot. So I think this version looks even more like the Dublin library.
Would be nice to post a screenshot from the movie to compare instead.
- sigs are for wimps.
Super Mario came out way after A New Hope. You probably weren't even born then I assume ;-)
It even predates Donkey Kong.
- sigs are for wimps.
If you hated the love scenes as much as I did, go check out the IMAX version of AOTC. This isn't just a 35mm print on an IMAX screen, they've digitally whizz-banged it up to cover all 7(8) stories!
Cut were several love scenes, most of Jar-Jar's dialog, and Jimmy Smits' entire role, save for a cameo at the very end of the movie. It's almost like Lucas did a Phantom Edit all by his lonesome, although we really know it was to fit into IMAX's scheduling.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
The debt he truly owes is to the creators of "Family Matters." If they had never dreamed up that adorable clown Steve Urkel, the comedic genius of Jar-Jar Binks might never have been realized. Also, there should be a nod to the creators of "Charles in Charge" for inspiration garnered from Charles' buddy,... Buddy.
c-hack.com |
I agree that Lucas has "admitted" to this, but I still think it's pretentious film-school bullshit invented after the fact to make Lucas sound like more of an artiste than he might otherwise. It's like Jerry Bruckheimer talking about how he tried to work Shakespearean themes into "Armageddon". Or like Ari Fleischer describing W.'s forays into the world's great thinkers- "he's been spending a lot of time reading classical political theorists." Yeah. Right.
Seriously, does anyone actually care about anything Star-Wars-related any more? I haven't even SEEN Episode II, and like most of the readers here I grew up a SW fanboy.
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
I was in Ireland a little over 2 years ago with some other students, and we saw said library, and it was truly amazing. Upon further thought, when I first saw the Jedi Library, I knew it reminded me of something, and now I know what. The similarities are definitely more than coincidence.
Quoth the zombie, braaaaaaaains
So she pointed me to a URL: Maxfield Parrish and darned if she didn't have a point. Judge for yourself.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
I really have to wonder how the citizens of Dublin, Ohio feel about having their tax dollars pay such a dramatic building in their back yard? Normally you only find this kind of luxury in Europe...
I know, I know. But if Lucas's designers are copying Irish buildings, what's next? The next CGI character: a little green thing with a red hat (?) that drinks a whole lot and rejoices in the moniker Pah-de-oht'ool ?
(this is not a
have a large fight at a soccer game.
That's funny..I seem to never remember large fights at soccer matches in Ireland.
Those were the speciality of a select group of hooligans following certain English teams.
There is no underclass in Ireland that corresponds to the stereotypical English soccer hooligan..
- This sig deliberately left blank. Nothing to see, move along.
They also should acknowledge a debt to the person who came up with the "Trinity College" name ;-)
Wow, isn't that the Death Star in the top right corner?! long room page
Lucas is a two-bit ho. Fuck him and all those who like him.
If everyone were forced to make acknowlegements about our inspiration, there would be no art.
Instead we'd have nothing but red tape, blank paper and empty screens.
You fool! You've given cheese to a lactose intolerant volcano god! Do you know what that means?
When the Long Room was built, just about the only stipulation was that it be longer than a similar library at Cambridge University in England.
And it is, by a few feet.
Incidentally, the libaray is on the second floor of the building, to protect the books. You see, Trinity was built in the flood plain of the Liffey. Many of the original Trinity buildings literally sank from view because of inadequate drainage.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Actually Trinity's bandwidth usage barely budged. The problem seems to have been the ancient webserver. I suppose up until last night there has never really been any real need for a nice fast webserver.
The time it happened was about 10pm GMT.. guesing slashdot being about 6hrs behind GMT.
http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/matsakis/anakin.swf
At least the war on the environment is going well
the jedi archives
the trinity library
similar....hmm, kinda...
The guy who played Baron Vladimir Harkonnen was the perfect fit (for the part, not for his pantsuit ;o). What convincing acting though.
"They'll know...THEY'LL KNOW!..." (remember that line?)
I am professionally trained in computer science, which is to say
(in all seriousness) that I am extremely poorly educated.
-- Joseph Weizenbaum, "Computer Power and Human Reason"
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