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SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy
simeonbeta2 writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is running a story about Pac Bell's dsl partnership with Yahoo. Initially touted as a new service, Pac Bell is apparently now mailing existing dsl customers to urge them to install additional client software that will enable 'incredible new features and services'. While SBC's privacy policy is not excessively intrusive, use of the new software is covered by Yahoo's privacy policy, which is just a bit more Orwellian." The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
Less privacy?
Hasn't that been happening as revenue (def. not profits) collapse for shitty free sites like Yahoo?
Big companies still don't care about your rights!
Yawn.
Does this herald the end of an era? Hardly...
Is it even news?
Fuck it
On my Commodore Amiga.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Symetric DSL is said to be available on the SBC site but it is apparently rolled out nowhere. My only alternative is to get a T-1 which is about 450 more a month.
I cannot believe it's taking this freaking long to get decent service and access to the internet.
Wait a sec I run Linux with RASPPPOE, how am I supposed to install the software? :)
Yeah install it where the sun don't shine SBC
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
I haven't even touched the CD that came with my cable modem, thank you very much. It's full of that transfer monitering crap - isn't it?
Comcast...grumble...
when Prodigy was bought out by SBC. They went on and on about no changes, same service, etc. Then I started getting almost weekly mails with cd's in nice bright colorful cases urging me to install my new SBC Yahoo! Dial software to enable new worlds of features! Of course I didn't because I just kept my Prodigy account around for the old email address and never dialed in, so what was the point of installing new software?
;) There's something to be said for smaller ISP's...
Finally they started bombarding me with emails that extolled the virtues of the new software. My guess is when you install it then it checks you off on the master list on the server that you installed it, nevermind if you never needed to or didn't care at all. Finally after trying to register on the web site and failing miserably, I just called and cancelled the account. And ya know what? My spam amount is down 95% since then
"Christ what a design! I could eat a handful of iron filings and PUKE a better emergency pump than that!"
I got a flyer in the mail from SBC/Pacbell/Yahoo about
this new service. I have dsl via pppoe on a linux
box running as a vpn router, and I use mozilla/phoenix
as my browser.
I tried going to the web page on the flyer, but it
just doesn't do anything.
I wonder what happens if I never sign up for this
yahoo service? Guess we'll see eventually.
I tried to install their new software, but when I tried to double click the .exe in Nautilus it wouldn't work! hmmmm...
They are wanting you to "upgrade" to this new great service, but they make it clear that your email address, mothly price, connection speed, and support stay the same. I was confused how they could consider that an upgrade.
"The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
Since when are reporters supposed to actually research something before writing their opinions, er... articles?
It's easy to stand out when the general level of competence is so low.
What? You're not sure? You don't want to be labelled a terrorist, do you?
I bet you even have that dangerous 802.11b equipment, don't you?
I have SBC DSL and haven't installed any of their software. I am just using a Lynksys router. I would never install any of their software.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
But for the most part, privacy online is what you make of it. Essentially, you are the controller of your online privacy. You let out as much info as you choose too. Don't want your shopping habits shared with some marketing weenie...don't shop online.
Craenor
Slashdot knows I'm a troll and discriminates against me because of it. how do they know that and why is my privacy and right to upwardly mobile moderation being trampled upon?
One of their privacy invading UNIX tools is openDK(). The only thing it is good for is a takedown of your privacy.
Great...so all a writer has to do to make a name for itself in the geek community is yell "LOSS OF PRIVACY! and they come running to see what it is and defending the piece. I just wish it was not so easy, but it is. /. it is like someone taking a knife to a guys balls. Nice to see the write up saw that called the SFC out on it. I wish more were like him and took an honest look at internet use and how we need to balance out the commerce uses with it's awesome ability to share info.
Seriously folk, some measures to protect privacy need to be taken, but every single time you read about this on
Please flame me. I am in a bad enough mood without having to put up with the "Everything should be free!!!!" rants. If yahoo is using a EULA to protect privacy for my stock transactions, then I like it. If they are using the EULA to track to my surfing habits (like every other ISP does not or cannot already) then to hell with them and hope they enjoyed sexwithrats.com.
War having a brain.
I was to be a sbc dsl user about a year ago, and I recently went to help my friend mike set up his dsl with sbc/Yahoo! while there is more software than the enternet 300 program that I had to load (now you have enternet 300 AND the connection manager) no biggie though becuase it all hides down in your task bar or system tray depending on how you set it up.
I don't think it's a real big "invasion of privacy" or even a major privacy cut for that matter I still use sbc/yahoo! dial-up and I have no complaint about it at all the only thing that they really want you to install for "added features" is the yahoo browser which hey if you can put up with msn explorer you can live with installing the yahoo browser
Maybe you (slashdot editor/_reporter_) should have researched that and either not posted the story or posted the story with your additional information.
My private email account on my own server gets no spam.
Can you show me a hotmail/yahoo account like that?
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Automatically change any documents on your PC that have Pacbell Park references to SBC Global Park. Go Giants!
"You know Myra, some people might think you're cute. But me, I think you're one very large baked potato."
So now they want me to download this wonderfull new software onto my Windows/Mac box .... to invade my privacy .... HA! ha! (as Nelson would say) .... tough
...and I never installed the software, who needs it? I plugged the DSL router into the wall and a hub and everyone's online. Does anyone use this software?
Whenever I see a commercial for SBC-Yahoo-DSL, there is only one thought that comes to mind: ten years ago, did any of those three words mean anything (maybe SBC meant something to some of you). It cracks me up that three terms that meant nothing to me 10 years ago all teamed up to make one huge-freaking-term: SBC-Yahoo-DSL. How can other companies compete with that?
Sex - Find It
In a novel by John D. MacDonald, a condominium buyer is told by the sales agent that the long fine-print contract he's signing is "a formality." Later, when the buyer discovers all sorts of problems with the condo and the agent is stonewalling him on getting them fixed, the agent says "After all, it says in the contract you signed that..."
The buyer protests "But you said that was just a formality." The agent says "That's right--it is a formal, binding legal contract enforceable in a court of law."
In real life, when it is honestly a negotiating situation, when I see things I really don't like in contracts I test them. "Can I strike this out?" "Can I write here, 'I have sixty-day return privileges and ask you to initial it?'" The results are very unpredictable. When the clause really IS just boilerplate that they don't actually plan to use, very often they will be perfectly agreeable, and you can get the verbal understanding down on paper. But occasionally, they'll freak out--that clause is in there for a reason and they've been ordered not to let anyone mess with it.
Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and click-through stuff is a situation where you really have any power or any ability to negotiate. You can't strike out clauses and see if they'll agree to accept them.
Nevertheless, it's a very good idea to assume that contracts really do mean what they say and that all the fine print and boilerplate really might become operative someday.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
They're just bundling in consumer profiling into the ISP, so people basically pay to be advertised to under the guise of having a homepage that displays things they're interested in (and apparently everyone is interested in consumer goods, top 40 music, and celebrity gossip). Obviously this is a staggering innovation, perhaps patent worthy (if Amazon hasn't beaten them to the punch, natch).
The whole scheme is just retarded and I had a nice chuckle when SBC (my ISP...) emailed me offering a free (!) upgrade to Yahoo!DSL. Fortunately this "service" isn't supported under Linux, so I could use it even if I wanted to.
I just love the way everything's been portrayed so positively in recent years. Very rarely now do you hear the prefix "anti-". Everything has a warm, fuzzy sound to it. My point being.. why has every site's "policy of how much we use your info to screw you" become a "privacy policy"? If someone started a crummy site up that gleefully sucked in SSNs and credit card numbers only to auction them off for identity theft, no doubt there would still be a cute little link that said "Privacy Policy." I presume it would say:
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Yahoo! services and think their policy is quite reasonable. It just seems like a little more truth is in order sometimes.
This software is optional for the moment, but according to my boss, within a year it will be required in order to keep your DSL line. They are waiting for the macintosh version, since about 10% of their customers are mac freeks. When they had meetings with my boss, they talked about how they can't make any money (yeah, right!) unless they force everyone to install this software so they can sell all your private data, and they mentioned that linux users were criminals who only used hacker software. Very clueless, but my boss smells $$$ and he thinks this will be great This software is remotely upgradeable, and later they will add specific modules to do things like examine quicken files and send them the results, scan all the email headers in outlook and help them compile buddy lists/friends&family lists, and will monitor all instant messenger traffic. They will then combine all this data with their customer records, phone numbers, social security numbers, and allow marketing companies like ours to mine the data for narrow-target campaigns. My job is to create custom software to pull out relationship data (parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, employers) to drive personalized mailshots. They will have headings like "Your mother, Mary, thought you would like to buy..." They are also going to sell the data to insurance companies so if you IM your best friend about your auto accident or doctors checkup, then someone will know about it. They also said this is perfect for fighting terrorism, and waved the flag a lot.
I still have the note about this in my mailbox from Monday...
*begin note*
Dear SBC DSL Internet Services Member,
SBC Internet Services* has been working to improve your member benefits. We've recently joined forces with the world's number one Internet destination -- Yahoo!(R) -- to bring you SBC Yahoo! DSL, a powerful new, feature-rich Internet experience that will replace your existing SBC Internet service.
Upgrade here: http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/upgrade.html
Upgrade to SBC Yahoo! DSL today. We've designed your new service so you can upgrade in just minutes, and of course, upgrade is free. All you have to do is follow the on-screen
instructions. It's that easy. Before you know it, you'll be enjoying a whole new set of nhancements, but 4 important aspects of your account won't be affected by this upgrade:
Your email address will stay the same.
Your monthly price will stay the same.**
Your billing method will stay the same.
Your high speed DSL Internet connection will stay the same.
_
With SBC Yahoo! DSL, you are in control. You have the power to choose which software to download based on the features you want: ***
+ SBC Yahoo! Browser Environment Software
This software package gives you the SBC Yahoo! DSL custom browser with built-in Messenger and LAUNCHcast Radio plus easy access to email, finance, games, and more. In addition, this package also includes Parental Controls and Firewall software.
+ SBC Yahoo! Dial Connection Manager Software
Loading this software gives you unlimited remote dial-up access to your account, so you have the ability to log in
with your existing email and password even when you're on
the road.
+ SBC Connection Manager Software (coming early 2003)
This software includes a large set of support tools that monitor, test, and repair your DSL connection to ensure high-quality service. In addition, the SBC Connection Manager will diagnose any connection problems and provide automated help to resolve the issue.
Mac users can also upgrade to the SBC Yahoo! DSL experience.
Download for Mac users is coming soon.
_
Once you upgrade... you'll receive incredible new features and services, including:
+ A home page you can customize to give you the information and features you want.
+ Email account with 25MB of online storage space.
+ 10 FREE additional email addresses - each with 10MB online storage space.
+ 110MB of online storage with SBC Yahoo! Photos and Briefcase.
+ 3 premium listings in both SBC Yahoo! Classifieds and SBC Yahoo! Auctions.
+ 2 select premium services like Bill Pay and Games memberships.
+ 20% discount on additional Premium Services in select categories.
Don't wait. Upgrade now and start enjoying your enhanced Internet experience right away. And be sure to check your email for additional information about your account update.
Upgrade here: http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/upgrade.html
P.S. Remember - your email address stays the same, your monthly price stays the same, your billing method stays the same, and your high speed DSL Internet connection stays the same. Act now. It only takes a few minutes to upgrade to the custom features of SBC Yahoo! DSL.
If you have any questions please go to http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/ for additional
information. For technical support please call:
1-877-SBC-DSL5
* Pacific Bell Internet Services, Nevada Bell Internet Services, Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Ameritech Interactive Media Services, SNET Diversified Group and Prodigy Communications, L.P.
** Your basic monthly price does not change during your existing term commitment.
*** Download of software is not required for the upgrade.
Download available for Windows users with
Internet Explorer 5.0 or above. Mac users can also upgrade to the SBC Yahoo! DSL experience. Download for Mac users is coming soon. Minimum systems requirements are provided online for the options you choose to download.
SBC Yahoo! DSL is an information service that combines DSL transport, Internet access and applications from SBC Internet Services, with customized content, services, and applications from Yahoo! Inc., to provide the customer with
high-speed broadband access to the World Wide Web. Further details on offers/packages provided during enrollment and registration. Acceptance of Terms of Service required.
Yahoo!, the Yahoo! logo and other Yahoo! logos and product and service names are the trademarks and/or registered trademarks of Yahoo! Inc. SBC, the SBC logo and all other SBC logos and product and service names are the trademarks and/or registered trademarks of SBC Properties, L.P. All
other brand names may be trademarks or registered
trademarks of their respective owners.
(c) 2002 SBC Properties, L.P. and Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy: http://yahoo.sbc.com/privacy
*end note*
My thoughts: I don't think I'm going to "upgrade". From the note at the bottom about "your price will not change during your term commitment", I'm thinking that it's a trial of a more expensive service. I staying with the regular service. My server computer runs Mozilla on FreeBSD anyway. I don't need any of the Yahoo stuff.
NOTE: This post was edited to pass the "Lameness/Junk" filter. Slashdot didn't like the long horizontal lines that were in the Email.
NOTE2: This post was edited to pass the "too few characters for line" filter. Slashdot didn't like the way the lines were broke up.
-Valen
Before everyone goes jumping all over SBC and Yahoo (trust me - I'm not an apologist for either of them), michael is right - the reporter did a really poor job looking into why Yahoo might need a user's Social Security number or info about their assets. It's akin to asking why someone needs your street address when they want to send you something you've ordered (oh, wait, Bezos is trying the patent that, isn't he? ;).
I was involved in a DSL project in Japan that used a piece of third-party software that was, essentially, a program that would examine your system and create a file that contained things like OS, Memory, CPU, Disk Size, monitor type, and anything else like this that it could find out.
This file was supposed to sit there until the DSL provider requested it behind the scenes. The purpose? Database Marketing. By knowing how old your system is, they can target you for new system sales. By knowing how small your monitor is, they can target you for sale of a bigger one. And so on.
I left before I heard about successful launch. So I don't know if it ever went live. But do _NOT_ for one minute believe that there is "nothing to this kind of report." I've seen it. I can't say for sure that this is, in fact, what the Yahoo!DSL in the US is up to, but let's say it would not surprise me.
best web host ever
I've seen the commercials for this. They actually call it "Internet that logs onto You." I almost did a spit-take when I heard it.
Like eagles on pogo-sticks! -- Glottis
Yea, you may be right. But, Windows XP is better than the two of them put together!
I've had DSL from Pacbell ever since it was available, and then it was gobbled up by SBC. Anyway, I've been getting those offers by Email and snail mail... but they really aren't offering anything I need. Therefore... nope.
SBC is annoying enough, but Yahoo! takes the cake. Its fundamental business model relies upon dubious advertising practices including banner ads, pop-ups/unders, spam and mass-mailings.
<SBC-RANT>
I suspect that SBC sells call information to third-parties. Almost every time I talk to anyone for more than just a few minutes, 4-5 min later I get these automated sales pitches. Fscking tele-spam. I don't even bother answering the phone anymore since 90% of the calls are dead-air/spam.
</SBC-RANT>
Same goes for my OpenBSD router, FreeBSD desktop... and eventual AmigaOne/Pegasos. ;)
...it's just that SBC's political practices suck, on their quest to become the next monopoly.
Seriously though, having just jumped at the chance to "merge" my account, the additional software is just a mess of IE/Windows addons to create the illusion of AOL-like integration. SBC is betting that non-technical users will appreciate this (Yahoo! Messenger, cute shortcuts/search buttons, a spiffy homepage-portal that lets you access the little X-Drive-like 10mb "briefcase" they give you, etc), and technical users will fling the frisbees out the window and keep on truckin'.*
*Truckin' in the sense of performing the online account merge and ignoring the add-on "experience." You get the benefit of webmail access to your mail account and national dialup, and all the other freebie crap (online Britannica, etc) they're offering.
See, the interesting thing is that both SBC and Yahoo! actually have half a brain in producing the services they offer- SBC doesn't bitch anyone out for SSHing into their home machines or running servers, and Yahoo actually provides instructions on configuring a real mail client on the webmail page...
do they have a version for Solaris and SuSe??? ;)
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
michael's behavior continues to astound. If MS had done something even remotely similar to this, he would have launched into them with a tirade that would still be going on, yet, here, he equivocates for Yahoo. I realize this is not much of a surprise to some, but it still amazes me how utterly biased the slashdot editors are.
ObTopic: Generally, i think the EULA game is just a giant CYA exercise. Companies absolutely have to do this kind of stuff because you never know how you're going to get sued. MS had to word the EULA that way because thhe web-updates would download and install only IF you gave the auto-updater the chance to do so. Yahoo, similarly, IS exchanging financial info, and has to be restrictive. EULAs are EULAs. If you don't like them, don't play.
> Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and
;)
> click-through stuff is a situation where you
> really have any power or any ability to negotiate.
Yes we do.. just do what everyone else does. Ignore it.
EULA's are almost never enforced, because for the most part they're unenforcable. They mostly serve as CYA tactics in case problems ever do come up. Why do you think XP forces users to validate? Because Microsoft knows that EULA's are easily ignored and broken and they're powerless to stop it.
This stuff is only used when someone is actually going to court.. for stealing the software. And I'd wager you hardly need a EULA to realize that stealing is bad..
I just use my 56k modem after dropping my DSL. No funky software to install.
*locks himself in the bathroom and cries like a baby*
I recently did the switch although I knew it was to my detriment one day. So far I had some choices on what premium Yahoo services I wanted. I opted for additional briefcase storage for photos and files, and premium games ( which seems to just be so that I can enter tournaments with other Yahoo users that paid to play the free games) Plus it helps appease my wife since she can have 8 additional premium email boxes from Yahoo with POP access, vs SBC only giving us 2.
I think the incessant bombarding of commercials may have brainwashed me for an instant as well "My wife didnt even know I liked Salsa music..."
Why would they have a problem with you ssh'ing into your computer at home or running server processes...as long as you aren't blowing away bandwith?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The agenda of Yahoo is the same as it is for all the giant corporations, ie Microsoft, WalMart, AT&T, Sam Adams, AOL Time Warner, etc; it's to turn you into a wage earning slave exploiting your production on one hand, while controlling what you spend with the pitiful money they give you.
This quagmire of big business and big gubmint working together to exploit you must end. But it will not happen by itself. Resources need to be devoted, and unless people are prepared to actually act, not just talk about it on Slashdot, nothing will ever get done. Apathy is not an option.
You can help by getting off your rear and writing to your congressman or senator, or to the Bush Family Evil Empire at the White House. Tell them that personal freedom and privacy combined with decent working conditions, a fair wage for a fair day's work, and decent, affordable, universal health care, are important to you - that you should have the rightt to control that that you store on your own disks. Tell them that you are appalled at Yahoo!'s and the pResident's efforts in this area, but that in the absense of full disclosure, you will have to find a less secure and intelligently run country to live in. Let them know that SMP may make or break whether you can efficiently deploy OpenBSD on your workstations and servers. Explain the concerns you have about freedom, openness, and choice, and how a corporate state run for greed's sake that exploits the workers destroys all three. Let them know that this is an issue that effects YOU directly, that YOU vote, and that your vote will be influenced, indeed dependent, on his or her policy on the rights of ordinary, hard working, people.
You CAN make a difference. Don't treat voting as a right, treat it as a duty. Keep informed, keep your political representatives informed on how you feel. And, most importantly of all, vote.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and click-through stuff is a situation where you really have any power or any ability to negotiate. You can't strike out clauses and see if they'll agree to accept them.
The same holds true when you're signing, say a morgage. The person in front of you is typically a minion from a third-party (escrow company). They don't have the power to accept or reject changes and asking for any change will only result in a several-day delay.
Mmmm.. Donuts
I refused to upgrade my account,
the new contract prohibits the running of any kind of server on their service.
It wont be long before they start portscanning people and sending off nasty letters like @home did back in the days.
I really dont see what the problem is, they limit your upstream data to around 12/Ks. It's not like anything could clog the network.
--
|-_-| . o O ( bEef!)
Stealing is bad. That's good to know.
Is installing a program on more than one computer stealing? Is installing bitkeeper and contributing to cvs without paying $5000 stealing? Is installing a program on a multi-processor box without paying for the multi-processor version stealing? Is using frontpage to make an anti-Microsoft web site stealing?
Existing law makes no provisions for a seller to dictate to a buyer what he may or may not use a product for.
But a EULA does. And if a EULA is equivalent to a binding contract, then it can be enforced as a contract can be.
Twenty years ago no one would ever have considered a EULA the same as a contract--no one signs it, there is no proof of who exactly agrees to it. But no one should underestimate the power of established tradition. As EULA's become more and more ubiquitous, they will become more and more accepted by the legal community. And eventually and gradually, without a single legislature passing any law on the matter, the courts will rule by precedent and make EULA's legally binding. And then you can trust that the consequences of forcing average consumers to agree to long and complex legal documents whenever they want to buy a common consumer good will be felt. The law will intrude even deeper into people's everyday lives, making everyone less free. No, people won't read them more carefully--that's impossible anyway, the EULA's necessary to install something as common as Windows with the necessary updates already includes more pages than the Bible. People won't choose to live as hermits in the woods, either--rather they will simply bend their backs and bear the burdens of a few more laws.
I just set up a new account with SBC/Yahoo. They no longer send you your PPPOE username/password - you have to run their monolithic installer to set up your account the first time. After that, though, it's regular PPPOE. I set up a sacrificial Windows machine to get my account info, then blew it all away and set up my Linksys router to do the PPPOE - it's working fine. None of their crappy software seems to be required at the moment.
Send Travis McGee down there to discuss your privacy with them!!!.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
I recently switched over to Yahoo!/SBC DSL thinking it would be neat to have access to the Yahoo! features. I had a problem with the install (after agreeing to the Orwellian user agreement) and decided to call tech support. A fellow named O'Brien answered. It started out friendly and he guided me through setting up online Solitaire, but things rapidly deteriorated. He began to question me about my sexuality - pointed questions that were quite disturbing. I tried to deflect them and get back to my Yahoo! DSL problems but he wouldn't let up. Finally I told him that he was behaving inappropriately and I wanted to talk to his manager. He called me a "thought criminal" and said I was dressing too flamboyantly. He said he was watching me through my webcam (apparently I agreed to this in the Orwellian user agreement) and to remain seated, as he was dispatching a team of Yahooligans to begin my re-education. I sit here paralyzed with fear, knowing that all that once was is no more. Pray for me.
it's a very good idea to assume that contracts really do mean what they say
This should be hammered into every person - there is no such thing as "boilerplate" in a contract. There is a REASON for EVERY SINGLE WORD (unless the attorney who prepared it is guilty of malpractice) It doesn't "become operative someday" - it is in force the second you agree to it. You may not understand the purpose of all the text in the contract, but the attorneys who prepared it do, and will enforce it if you arouse their ire.
DirecTVDSL just went out of business. I have a feeling that'll be the next slashdot news story. Out of business.
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I find it endlessly amusing that the same people who hark on about the hopelessness of the DRM cause and the certainty that the onwards march of technology will defeat every effort to maintain conventional copyright control of digital works somehow fail to make the connection that that self-same march will achieve much the same ends when it comes to their own online privacy. Technology is a two (or n) edged sword, it can give us freedoms we never dreamed of and expose us to scrutiny the likes of which Orwell himself never imagined. The common thread is the inevitability of it all - the technology will find a way and cares not as to whether the use to which it is being put is benign or malignant...
It's not that I'm Anti-American - I'm Pro-Freedom
They do bill it as: "The Internet that knows you" They simply don't elaborate how much it knows....
> Your email address will stay the same.
>Your monthly price will stay the same.**
>Your billing method will stay the same.
> Your high speed DSL Internet connection will stay the same.
"**"? Why did I just instinctively reach for my wallet?
>[...]With SBC Yahoo! DSL, you are in control. You have the power to choose which software to download based on the features you want: ***
"***"? ...and my firewall? :-)
Interestingly enough, just a few weeks ago, I got a snail mailing regarding an opportunity to opt out of SBC's sell^H^H^Hharing of my CPNI (Customer Proprietary Network Information) data.
Unless I opted out, SBC promised that it would dutifully use the record of every phone number I dialled to figure out what sorts of crap^H^H^H^Hexciting products and services I might be interested in.
I wondered how the fuck a phone company could use that, and then I realized that if SBC is partnering up with Yahoo in order to provide DSL, that going through every phone user's CPNI records to target ad campaigns to users of competing (dial-up) ISPs would be a perfect application of this.
After all, with CPNI data, SBC could easily send "u wan2 swtch frm AOL" mailings to AOL users, "Tired of seeing Sky Dayton buggering the rotting corpse of Mindspring/Netcom every day?" mailings to Earthlink users of Mindspring or Netcom POPs, and "Why are you still with these small-timers" to users of independent/local ISPs.
Rant: I hate telcos. I hate marketroids. They seem to feed off each other, in an evil, sickening way that makes spammers seem honest by comparison.
At any rate, if you do business with SBC, I'd strongly recommend that you opt-out of having your calling records used for marketing purposes. (You'll need a copy of your phone bill to use that link. A few days later, you'll get a receipt in the snail-mail confirming your opt-out. No word on how long it lasts, but knowing the DMA, you'll probably have to jump through the hoop on at least an annual basis. )
I was first with flashnet. Prodigy bought them so it became Flashnet by Prodigy or something like that. Then they merged with SBC and became SBC Prodigy or something. Now all this with Yahoo. Is my isp called Flashnet-Prodigy-SBC-Yahoo?
Funny, after Flashnet gave us a cd, prodigy gave us a couple cd's, sbc gave us one, and yahoo gave another, I've never installed any of it. I had to change my dialup number once, but besides that, everything works great.
MUM'S THE WORD: Speaking of keeping things quiet, perhaps you saw a federal judge's decision the other day rejecting Congress' efforts to find out whom Vice President Dick Cheney met with last year while formulating national energy policy
Why is this crap even in the article? And democrats wonder why the republicans cry about liberal bias in the news. They can't even talk about DSL without bringing their political crap into the article. Maybe we'll stop calling them reports and start calling them what they are -evangelist.
> Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because
> they offer financial services and the like, where
> they may well need financial information from you
> to provide the service.
Why can't they have different policies for different services?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial
/. wants to be when it grows up (if it ever does). Neither can I, so I can sympathize.
services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter
needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking
it enables.
This disclaimer simply magnifies the fact that Slashdot would like to be something more than simply a headline mirror, without all the trappings that come with journalistic integrity. What, exactly, do Slashdot editors "edit" if not the stories they post? Shouldn't the stories be checked out first? And if a story is bogus (as this one seems to be), wouldn't the appropriate action be to pull the story?
I can't quite figure out what
I've had PacBell DSL since '99, and not once did I get mail asking me to upgrade. As for privacy, well, I think the fact that my box receives at least 200 spam messages a day tells you how much SBC cares about user's privacy...
Maybe digital EULAs could do the same. They could have checkboxes that would change the installation process, maybe leaving parts out, or adding parts, or changing things like expiry dates, depending on what the user agreed to, with background logic creating a balance of acceptable terms for the software developer. A DEULA could be returned to the software developer via the web to automate a custom fee structure.
Right now, they are, at least in every instance I've found them, monolithic documents with a single, giant checkbox. Perhaps the future EULA will be a tree heirarchy of optional clauses.
Thinking the idea might be useful as software becomes more and more a mix of commercial and free software, with their possibly conflicting licenses.
Just an idea.. Maybe a bad one since it would keep lawyers employed.
_KhlER3L
The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
David Lazarus is a columnist for the Chronicle's business pages. Michael's point may be good but it's important to realize that the writer isn't under the same sort of obligations that a reporter would be.
I called tech support and got the URL for signing up on line. (might have to try a few techs) it was something like http://register.sbcglobal.net sorry i forget.
:)
Then installed enternet 300 only
E:\Setup\Efficient\reboot\setup.exe on my cd. No need for all their crap.
Going to try raspppoe next.
http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~normanb/
They dont support it but their tech support is worthless anyway, they want you to uninstall anything that is not their network, seems thats always the problem in their mind, even when their field tech cant ping their server.
OH well it is better than 56K
Remember, when stadiums had cool names, like "Candlestick", or "Ebbet's", or "Joe Robbie", or "Municipal" (well, okay, not "Municipal")? Or when bowl games were called "Rose" and "Orange"? Now our stadiums are called "Comerica" and "Pro Player" and "Gilette" and "Tampax" or whatever! And our bowls are called "Tostitos" and "Chic-Fil-A"(!)! Corporate influences have destroyed sports in America.
Anyway, there once was a park called Pac Bell. Granted, the name indicated that it was one of those "corporately defiled" stadiums, but it had a nice ring to it. But now we're going to have to call it SBC?!?! They have gone too far...
Comapnies need to 1) Stop being so schizophrenic, and 2) go away.
Okay, you can mod me -1: Offtopic now
Insightful: 76, Off-Topic: 379, Flamebait: 24, Funny: 152, Interesting: 201, Underrated: 55, Troll: 9, Total: 896
Of course you cant even sign up for this "service" unless you are running Windows or Macos. I made the switch for may account using a windows machine at work. So far it is working fine with my Linux machine at home. The sign up process was just a simple form filling exercise, which could easily have been done in HTML, can't help but wonder about their motivation to go the executable route.
On the positive side their technical support people were actually apologetic about not being able to sign up using Linux and were prepared to tell me that the "service" would work fine if I found a way to get through the registration. I liked this response much better than the usual "get lost wierdo" that I'm more used to as a Linux user.
They keep sending me Emails to "upgrade" to yahoo dial up, when I know it's just spyware. I haven't installed, nor will I install this stuff on my computer. Since when has anyone needed a 3rd party program to dial an internet service for you? The spam on their main website is annoying enough, especially for the $25 price tag the service has. I'll get a new ISP before I install this crap.
ITYM, "From the no-brainer dept."
Yahoo was always the McDonalds of web portals, and they never had any concept of honesty or fair treatment with respect to their members. We all saw that fact become as plain as daylight when they acquired GeoCities and WebRing.
So now, given that most of their services are inferior with declining profits, people expect them to improve? Psshhh. Uh-huh, and I have a bloody great bridge I'd like to sell you.
If you don't like the fact that your e-mail provider is a tosser, then LEAVE. After all, it's not costing you anything, is it?
If enough of their customers get fed up and leave, the geniuses who are running the company might finally take a hint -- shape up or ship out, because there are only about 5,000 other free e-mail providers on the Web that care more about their subscribers.
It's sort of like that comparison with the snobs who block people from their site who don't use MSIE: "There's always a better site, it's just that you haven't found it yet."
They're so amazingly great! So, do you just copy and paste, or do you have a script that posts for you? And, is this a formal experiment in karma, or just a fun little game you're playing, or is this maybe a sociology experiment? Whichever it is, it seems to be working! Every time you post this rant with the blanks filled in, you get modded up, and not as funny either! You actually are hooking suckers with every single post! Too bad karma numbers aren't available any more to check your progress.
i swear this is not an "in soviet russia" post.
around here (l.a.), sbc-yahoo has all these billboards and radio commercials and their slogan is "internet that logs on to you" (yes, this is too stupid to make up). their website indicates that they've now changed that to "internet at the speed of you", perhaps realizing that having the internet log on to you may not be the ideal user experience.
but this may explain their privacy issues.
Yes, there is. In real estate, a boiler plate contract is when you go to your local printer and have him print a copy of your contract with the header "STANDARD CONTRACT" on top.
Ideally, you should have two different copies of your "STANDARD CONTRACT" -- one for when you're buying real estate and one for when you're selling real estate. And of course, you should always impose your own copy of your contract on your adversary.
I called to make sure that this wasn't a "ugrade now, because we are cutting our old services out" kind of call (like AT&T's wireless DSL experiment last year). There was no good reason to switch, no "features" I wanted, so I chose to stay with the current package.
Scarey tactics.
my mother was on prodigy.net dialup and asked me to upgrade it to the sbc yahoo. boy, were we sorry!!! she lost all her email from prodigy. it disappeared into the void. cant get it back, even with the old prodigy email settings. their tech support was worthless. then that crappy browser and email interface and those popups they stick you with. she isn't a sophisticated user, but she got sick of that quickly. so i cfg'd standard outlook and ie for her, and am thinking about getting her the phoenix browser to stop the popups.
Agreed. There's very little in the Yahoo "upgrade" that a Slashdot reader would want.
Basically, the upgrade involves putting the Broadjump Client Platform on your machine, switching to their customized browser, a GeoCities home page (!), spam from them you can't stop, more ads in their browser, and opening yourself up to the possibility that they'll raise the rates on their "bundled services".
I, too, have a Linksys router with PacBell DSL. and just hope they don't break it. For that matter, right now I'm running on a QNX machine.
Does this SBC/Prodigy thing support anything other than Microsoft?
Covad remains an option; if you have PacBell/SBC DSL, you can switch to Covad, which is less obnoxious but has to fight with SBC over access to the local loop.
I was pretty much dumbfounded and had to check karmawarrior's posts just to make sure.
Dunno. Ask those with horror stories from some of the other providers. ;)
Seriously, I have no great love for SBC, but I'm happier to have been "stuck" with them as my lowest-cost option, vs. those poor souls on Comcast or similar.
I gather Speakeasy has a reputation for no-bullshit-guaranteed, but as a CLEC, the rates can't help but be higher- thanks, of course, to politicking by ILECs like SBC.
As everybody seems to know the name already, perhaps you'd be interested in reading some of his essays, newspaper columns, letters and editorials.
From the page: Orwell was 47 years old when he succumbed to tuberculosis in January 1950.
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
Uncanny... Four minutes after you post, your premonition came true.
Any lottery tips?
Psychic. =)
Who attaches a windows box directly to there DSL? If you dont have a cheap somewhat functional hardware firewall or better yet a Linux/BSD/Sun/Cisco box functioning as a firewall then it's a simple DHCP/Static IP setup and some ethernet/wireless no software outside an IP stack and the applications I you want to use. Branding comarketing and all that drivel is what is killing business. Can we not decide what to buy based upon specs and a little marketing to get us to relize it's there? I dont want Yahoo intergrated into my browser or anything else for that matter. If I run Be or AmigaOS or whatever it shouldent matter there responcibility ends at the CPE just like the phone company will it take legislation to make them relize that. This is what ammounts to the old phone company only allowing there phones to be connected. For DSl this should mean you can run PPPoE ok better yet DHCP up an address and your golden. I think the funniest thing is my old cable provider didn't have my first hop respond to pings this would be what I consider connection verification 101 can you ping your default gateway? yes ok if you still have problems it's probably not the low level network (Yes I know that this is not perfect but it gets the Tier 1 techs in the call center out of a jam)
No sir I dont like it.
1)Download and install Zonealarm (any ver). 2)Connect to the Net. 3)When spyware attempts to get past your shiny new firewall, give it the finger. Being able to see which programs are trying to connect to the Net and being able to allow or deny them is the fastest way possible of detecting spyware.
Current karma: Terrible (due to mods without a sense of humor)
I had problems logging in because they partially deleted my account after I had connection troubles (very long story). I ended up demonstrating to the tech that my account info was damaged on their end by logging in to PPPoE with a newuser name and password I found buried deep inside the Macintosh instructions. This username allowed me to only access pages on sbcyahoo.com and related domains. From there, I could register a new name (and I tried to many times). I think the relevant info was under the OS X section, as OS X has PPPoE built in. They provided a temporary userid/password and the website at which to point your browser to set everything up. I could have done it all with my Linksys router if I'd really wanted to. No Windows required.
Love,
Jay and Silent Bob
I have PacBell DSL (or SBC... whatever). I've gotten bombarded with things in the mail touting this SBC/Yahoo! thing. I went through the transition process and, after reading some of the license agreement, declined. I'll be switching soon, probably to SpeakEasy. I just don't like, or understand, all of the things going on behind my back here.
For God's sake man, don't you read?
On the 8th day, the Lord created Coyote linux (www.coyotelinux.com).
And the masses thanked the lord for a floppy disk based linux router with simple PPPoE support.
And verily the masses did get IP addresses from SBC without the use of cheesy 'client software.'
And the masses touted a simple, open source solution that even the unenlighted masses could benefit from, and could be used to show heathens the path towards enlightenment.
And the masses did continue to enjoy the use of their DSL lines.
And there was much rejoicing.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
My family has had Prodigy for the last 5-6 years and recently as of 2 years ago stopped using the dial up, just keeping it for the e-mail address. They kept sending e-mails to my dad about installing the crap on the CD and when I called to find out what it installed and why he needed it he couldn't get a straight answer from anyone. After about 3 months of the constantly bombarding him with e-mails telling him he had to install it, he did. Apparently the master user of the account has to run this, and any other accounts can just do it via the web based access (The software basically switches your account from old prodigy to the new SBC/Yahoo). After that he immediately uninstalled it and we go on not having any problem getting our mail. Although, I have noticed the amount of SPAM I get from this account went up to 100% right after the merger. (I have not used this address for a year), I haven't even given it out to anyone in a much longer period. They have in your face tactics that are rude and unless you know what you are doing with computers their software hi-jacks your browser. I personally hate going to their web page, I always get socked with ads everywhere. Why should I have to look at adds and not get an opt out when I'm paying full service charges for Prodigy's (SBC/Yahoo) service. I am a paying customer, not some bum using a free yahoo account! On that note, SBC/Yahoo sucks! ~ Luxin
~ Luxin There's no place like 127.0.0.1
In the footsteps of alterslash comes another slashdot summariser - Hoping to ease your slashdot browsing.
This is the story with all links pointing to the google cached versions. See Merkac Dot for the full summary
SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy Privacy [G] | Posted by michael on Friday December 13, @04:17PM
from the yahoo-knows-you're-a-dog dept.
simeonbeta2 writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is running a story [G] about Pac Bell's dsl partnership with Yahoo. Initially touted as a new service, Pac Bell is apparently now mailing existing dsl customers to urge them to install additional client software that will enable 'incredible new features and services'. While SBC's privacy policy [G] is not excessively intrusive, use of the new software is covered by Yahoo's privacy policy [G], which is just a bit more Orwellian." The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
IMO, if you want to write anti-MS webpages at least do it right and do it on a Linux box or a Mac! And if you HAVE to do it on Winblows, at least use gvim!!!
A man who wants nothing is invincible
you have to pay $250 to have one of their techs come into your home, plug in their laptop and make sure your dsl connection is working ...but they will include a modem of their choice for free if you sign a one year contract
The name Pacific Bell will soon cease to exist, thanks to father SBC.
Just because its not supported doesn't mean you can't use it. You would just have to do your own tech support, which you're probably already accustomed to doing anyway. As to top 40 and celebrities, those would be things that the greatest number of users are interested in. The most popular CD's, and the most popular people.
-An SBC phone tech
I helped my mother through the "upgrade," reading all the new agreements and not letting her download any new software. We got to a point in the activation where it said "upgrading your system" and then it said it had changed her Outlook Express settings automatically - this from within what was either a Java or ActiveX-based browser page, without us hitting any "ok" on any downloads, and running IE with "medium" level security, no default acceptance of certificates, etc.
I'm wondering, how could it do this? She never had the original software installed (I set up RASPPPoE instead until I could get her a router - SBC is still behind the times here, using PPPoE and not ATM), and the idea that something could just start changing settings in other programs from within a browser, without any warning, worries me. Shouldn't this be considered a security vulnerability?
Get off my launchpad!
They don't care that you are using a router. They just haven't, and won't, train people in the use of routers with your connection.
Most of these companies don't care that you are sharing the connection, especially DSL, since you can't go over their set limit anyway. They just don't support (i.e. can't answer any questions about) alternate OSes and alternate connectivity options.
I thought that i should allow all of you access to the terms and conditions you agreed to: and if you look hard enough (I believe it is in the first few paragraphs) you get the shaft. Sorry I cannot link to the site but here is the url http://sbc.yahoo.com/terms
Way overblown. I'm a user, and don't even bother with their software anyway. I didn't have to tell them anything, just get the new server addresses.
The amount of money that SBC/BooHoo(yahoo) put up for their advertising campaign would have enabled another 15-20K users to get barebones DSL access by installing and upgrading their telco equipment.
I run a small business, so I know that marketing is a needed facet of maintaining a operation. BUT when it comes to spying on your own customers to get demographic information to resell just to make a quick buck, I think that its time to talk with your local congresscritter and senator to see if there is a law that needs to be created to bitchslap the jerks in marketing down.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
They have Apple and Microsoft software which they support. They don't bother with anything else.
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