Slashdot Mirror
Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In
Webi writes "The government of India has started taking precise, wide-reaching steps to usher in a Linux wave in India." India sure seems to be a highly contested arena lately. Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers. Looks like they've really thought this through.
Maybe they will outsource linux support to the us!
I better start learning my Hindi!
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
Govt move on to let in Linux
PRASENJIT BHATTACHARYA
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 25, 2002 12:54:49 PM ]
NEW DELHI: The government of India has started taking precise, wide-reaching steps to usher in a Linux wave in India.
And that cannot be good news for proprietary software vendors like Microsoft. Yesterday, the IT ministry had a meeting of around 70 people, from companies like HP, IBM, Sun and TCS, government agencies like BARC and CDAC, state governments like Kerala, West Bengal and MP to evolve a level playing field for Linux vis-a-vis proprietary software (read Microsoft).
All the IITs too were represented at the meeting that went on for 4 hours.
There was consensus in the meeting that Linux was a secure, robust and cost-effective system.
As far as concrete pro-Linux acts go, government tenders may soon stop specifying Microsoft or any other vendor's name while floating software tenders, thus throwing open the way for Linux vendors to grab lucrative government contracts hitherto barred from them.
The government is also setting up special interest groups with officials of industry and academia to find out how Linux can be deployed in e-governance, defence, education and so on.
Since support to Linux is till a big issue, the government is also thinking in terms of setting up support and resource services, and call centres for Linux users. It is also looking at setting up pilot sites, where Linux applications can be "touched and felt". A heartening fact for Linux-philes would be the enthusiasm for Linux shown by extremely security-sensitive agencies like Bhabha Atomic Research Centre and the National Information Centre (NIC).
Another aspect that came out in the meeting was the work on Indianisation of Linux that's happening now.
C-DAC's agency NCST and Red Hat have, for instance, developed a Hindi version of Linux, called Indix. IIT Mumbai too is doing pioneering research in Linux.
Yesterday's meeting of industry, academia and government representatives was chaired by IT secretary R R Shah. According to industry sources, companies like Sun and TCS were all enthusiasm for Linux, with the TCS representative claiming that the company was implementing the country's largest Linux project in Chennai. The government, however, was at pains to bring out the fact that it was not against Microsoft or proprietary software and was only looking to leverage the strengths of open source software.
However, one official present at the meeting wisecracked, "Microsoft would have had a heart attack if it was present at the meeting. The interest in Linux at this meeting was palpable."
One influential official told ET that many people were "violently against" computer textbooks in schools and colleges teaching Microsoft Word or Excel, instead of generic applications or technologies, like word processors. Industry sources also said that on the sidelines of the meeting, there were two views among those present about Microsoft's reported move of sharing source code with the government. While some thought it was just "posturing" by MS, others felt that it was a "genuine" attempt by the Redmond giant to reach out.
However, sources said that it was the representative from Madhya Pradesh, who made a forceful case for Linux. He said that since MP had a paucity of resources, Linux seemed the best solution for the state. He, however, said that there was need to train people in Linux technologies. A member of the Linux user group sprang up to say that the MP government can take help of the extremely active Linux User group in Indore.
Let India worry about itself.
I need to eat.
Bowie J. Poag
Actually, English will be just fine. Anybody in India who is well-off enough to deal with computers almost definately speaks English. Whether it's English non-Indians can understand is a different matter all together.
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
Who cares what kind of market India has, would you do business with the brown devil?
...good for them!
In developing countries, Free/Open software makes tremendous sense. When your average worker doesn't make enough money in the average month to buy a license to Microsoft's latest OS, you know there's a disconnect.
Maybe my home state (CA, the new capital of hideous debt) might take a lesson from India.
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
Clearly, Microsoft would and the open source community seems ready to embrace the dot-heads too.
Anyway, I'm just curious... we should all be curious, about everything.
Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
How big of a tee-pee will the Indians need for their server room?
"Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers."
Oh joy! Another place to be put on eternity hold.
Any word if they plan on suporting the entire world or just the users in the Indian government?
This is a great thing since india has a great tech industry and will allow them to develop linux aplications.
a little offtopic
PS: it will also allow for a larger market share for linux to which is always a good thing.
Fuck yeah! Naan and that bangin' Martha crap. bang tan barta or something. With that green mint sauce. Ohh yeah.
Not that I hope .NET gains much traction, but if it does I think the Mono project is a real godsend.
.NET is mainly an API and MS seems to be supporting alternate but conforming .NET implementations, the Mono project is another reason to use Linux. If applications start using .NET in the future a government won't be at a disadvantage pushing/using Linux.
Since
smd4985
This is good for the economy.
A mammoth country like India is the first spark, pretty soon after other parts of the world follows, the tech support business model will take off.
1) Talk up linux.
2) When Bill and Melinda offer money, make nice.
3) Adopt Linux, and watch your people PROFIT.
4) Watch their tax recipts rise.
Whoops, that was 4 steps. Well, government projects usually go over budget.
See what I've been reading.
But Linux is licensed under the GPL! The GPL was written by Richard Stallman! RICHARD STALLMAN, people!
My God, don't these people know what they're doing? The GPL isn't really "free"! RMS is very annoying! You can't make money with Linux! India's computer businesses will GO BANKRUPT!
This must be stopped now! Otherwise, people might read the GPL and actually believe that crap about freedom! Quick, Bill Gates, wonderful capitalist, get in there and teach these guys about the real freedom of Windows!
good job, not like they've got the nuke or anything.
Where do all these thinking people come from.
they are focussed on the cost aspect "inexpensive beer" not the "free as in speech". A few tech savvy individuals dont represent the bulk of bored civil servants and decision makers. They just want to stretch a rupee further.
You guys need to take an economics course. Globalization and outsourcing of jobs to other countries is not bad in and of itself. In fact, in general it benefits everyone in the long run. In the short term the workers who were let go are hurt, but if the proper steps are taken (i.e. new skills training) then the short term loss is minimized.
If it wasn't for cheap foreign labor, America would never have been able to become a service economy. Basically, Americans could not have been as rich without cheap foreign labor.
smd4985
No windows, no gates, apache inside.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Do you, really?
Do you really think that Gates hasn't put a kick ass team together that whipped up a marvelous distro that makes every distro out there today look like the random keyboard peckings of idiot children?
Please.
Bill G is has no constraints - be it capital, time, motivation, talent, ideas, or secretive Linux development.... the man has unlimited resources.
India will follow the rest of the world like the sheep they are... right into Bill G's wallet.
As far as India adopting Linux... atleast they are plagarizing decent code now.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Dear Microsoft:
Tank you, come again!
Sincerely,
Apu... no, no, I mean "The Indian Government"
India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished.
Yes, I'm sure the freakin' GOVERNMENT OF INDIA will come to slashdot and read your troll and COMPLETELY CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
I mean, BILL FUCKING GATES came to India and gave them free copies of Office to fight AIDS (or whatever, maybe he actually gave money this time), and THAT didn't change their minds, what the heck did YOU donate?
I wasn't commenting on the economics of the situation. In fact, that's a very complex issue, and various aspects of globalization can be good or bad. We could certainly bounce posts back and forth on the subject for weeks. I was just commenting on the fact that people love to express controversial opinions as "Anonymous Coward", instead of standing behind their beliefs.
As you can tell, I'm a racist. My posts often get modded down, just because of my username. But, I'm still very upfront about my beliefs. I think if more people were honest about what they think, we'd be better off.
Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
There are quite a few things I'm seeing going on here that I do have to point out.
It has been voiced that India is foolish for going with open source which "at most will be half done" as opposed to Microsoft.
Think about this: India is a nuclear power, and they can hit major cities. Do we REALLY want a microsoft product running this? Think about it... this would bring entirely new meaning to the term blue screen of death.
Personally I see linux right now being stuck in this trap. They don't have the marketshare because there isn't the development, and they don't have the development because there is no marketshare. One of these things has to be fixed for the other one to be fixed. India is a HUGE populous. If this becomes the OS of choice over in India, it WILL lead to more development of Linux in general of which the entire linux community will benefit.
----- I want my LART.
Funny, americans that are scared of competition. Guess it's only good when you're winning huh?
But if anything my own experience of living there tells me, nothing will come of this move for another 20 years and by that time the MS flag will be flying higher than the stars and stripes.
Democratic USA - Government of the corporations, by the Corporations, for the corporations.
Oh come now, surely there was a day or two of economics even in your seemingly limited education.
Perhaps if they started calling it an "Open Source" economy, people wouldn't be so quick to defend jingoistic positions that inefficiently allocate labor.
Yeah, because some high school dropout who will only now earn $20,000 per year needs the job more than a college educated Indian who can't find a job but is willing to work for the equivalent of $2,000 per year in order to feed is three-person family. That was sarcasm, in case you didn't notice.
I wonder why it's a cess pool? Maybe because of the long British imperial rule who didn't give a shit about anyone but those three guys who owned those three plantions? No, couldn't be. It's got to be those people who are harming you so much by letting the women put dots on their foreheads. That, again, was sarcasm, in case that American flag was stuck too far up your ass.
With what other sexual diseases BillG can help India now ?
Qué?
He just has enough money of his own to personally buy every member of congress, the supreme court, and even the president.
With that kind of money, you don't need to adopt the best OS around.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
India sure seems to be a highly contested arena lately.
Does anyone else find it funny that Slashdot, a site with <sarcasm> model journalistic integrity</sarcasm> I might add, always sites itself?
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Yes, you do, and yes, it does.
You may not have those details to hand, but they are available to you. You may not want those details, but they are available to folks who are able to use them. That's why your fancy-schmancy modern car is significantly better than Grandpa's Model T.
How about Microsoft (1950's Rolls Royce clone, with a trouble-prone Chevy engine) versus Linux (modern Subaru)?
Right. You aren't. We can get jobs through trade with India. We don't have to sell them software to trade. Your conclusion may be obvious, but it is quite possibly wrong.
See what I've been reading.
given the stench of most university CS departments.
I don't really care why it's a cess pool. If it's because of the British rule, well, isn't it the fault of India for being so weak in the first place?
Besides, they fucked up the Ganges themselves, then they bathed in it.
Oh, yeah, they're pretty ugly. I don't like having to look at them (they stink too).
Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
This is really a chance for Bill to prove whatever he has done is genuinely of altruistic nature. Go Billy boy ... send some more money to india!
Within 10 years Linux or one of its offshoots will be the primary OS used on desktop and server computers world-wide. India is looking towards placing themselves in a very advantageous position in this new IT world.
Same thing as anybody with any sort of intelligence has their eye on things such as alternative sources of energy..
Your rant sounds much like the idiotic xenophobia and hyper-nationalism present in Germany that let Hitler come to power.
No one, including the United States, can just close their doors and shut out the outside world. And the outside world is willing to work without also requiring wages that purchase an HDTV, SUV, high-end computer, and two-story house.
US developers still have benefits over Indian ones. They're closer, easier to communicate with.
So you just have to leverage that.
Which means maybe eating plainer foods, not eating out at restauraunts, driving a used car, not upgrading your home theater and computer yearly, not going on cruises, and not goofing off at work. Not buying pills for minor things like depression. Not owning a second car. Becaue the competition is willing to do this and more. So you can evolve...or die.
May we never see th
Maybe they're poor because of you? Do you really think that if the United States stopped trading with everybody (specifically Iraq and Saudi Arabia, our main oil suppliers considering that Venezuala is for shit now), dropped Alaska (we bought it from Russia, you know, because of good diplomatic relationships), we would still be the super power that we are? No. We would smell and we'd bathe in the Mississippi River. Are you so dumb that you don't understand that? If all other nations did to the United State what you want to do to India and Saudi Arabia, do you think we'd be the way we are? No. No we would not. Get an education, because you've just been outsmarted by a high school freshman.
We can only hope.
That's really weird, considering. Until now I figured that in India Microsoft had even more dominance than it does in the US. I mean on campus just about everyone uses AIM/ICQ, clients range from the "real" ones to gAIM to Trillian, but the service is the same. But it seems that all the students from India use MSN messenger. And this isn't an exxageration, all of them use it and nobody else does. Just go to the library and walk around the lab and you'll see. So linux in India seems real real weird.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
I dunno, sounds like the perfect place for a cheapskate platform like Linux.
More like no thank you. God when someone doesn't buy MS you act like its a huge act of defiance. Grow the fuck up will you? I give this thing about 18 months before it collapses.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
India is different! They have a lot of brain/man power over there. And they are still a very poor country. That will change tho, and when it does, would you rather them be pushing m$ or something free? It's not about performance or source code, it's completely about economics and control of ones own future and brain power.
Besides, not every country in the world can pay ridiculous license fees for shotty software just to make a few people in some other country richer. Argh, ya know, instead of bitching about other countries, people should go there and check it out first hand. You'll see things in a completely different light and probably realize the whole high-priced, disposable 'american way' can't fly everywhere. jeeze, this is so obvious!
As far as complaing about jobs, sorry man (really!), but remember, those of you lower on the ladder were sacraficed for those higher up. How many bosses took pay cuts or forfeited their vacation so you could stay on board? Absolutely none! So before you go complaing about those bad immigrants or bad people in other countries taking your jobs just remember, someone had to make that decision here at home. And it was your ex-boss/superstar management team.
We won't have to worry about a terrorist attack or the like ruining our economy because we're doing it to ourselves. Give the middle guy a decent wage and get some creative management not selling their souls for the all mighty dollar and we'll go far. Of course, this is completely unrealistic today, but hey, some of us still have to keep thinking ahead..
Here's a piece of advice for you to hopefully follow:
:)
Please don't procreate
"System Shutdown Completed: Thank you, come again!"
"Derp de derp."
This one is actually good!
"Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In"
Wow.. never thought I'd see the day where Linux replaces an entire governing body. That should make for an interesting deomcracy. Everybody can write their own laws!
Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked? Of course not, because I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry.
No, but didja ever think that *maybe* chemists out there might want to put their own ideas and improvements into practice?
And unlike the auto world, in the computer world it's *very* easy to propogate one person's improvements around to everyone.
Linux isn't necessary inherently better just because the source code is widely available.
It's certainly an edge, though it doesn't make it better-regardless-of-other-factors.
The fact that it's also free-as-in-beer is a pretty big incentive, though.
India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished.
There are plenty of commercial programs that I don't consider particularly finished, and there are plenty of open-source programs that are finished.
Most stuff that you get when you download a Red Hat ISO is pretty solid stuff. Sure, you can get at CVS to a bunch of projects if you'd like to as well.
Oh, and all you complaining about not having a job -- I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius, but it seems to make sense doesn't it?
Keeping jobs in an environment where American workers are demanding obscene pay and benefits and aren't providing equivalently better performance is always going to be an issue. That's an unstable system that's going to break sooner or later. The only solution is for US workers to reduce their demands and take advantage of the benefits their government offers them. Are they drinking beer and watching football on the weekends, or studying a book from our free library system?
May we never see th
they already farm out thier tech-support lines to India. Perhaps MS knowledge will become scarce in India and they'll have to move the call center back to the US.
Right on India, smart move. Here's to hoping the US government won't be the last to migrate over to common sense.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
I didn't get outsmarted by you.
Do you really think that if the United States...
If we gave away everything we own we'd be poor. If you took it in the ass you'd be gay. What the hell is your point? We aren't poor, I assume that you don't take it in the ass. You could do billions of "what if" scenarios, but that doesn't change the way things are.
They're filthy because they're filthy. No matter how poor Europeans have been, they knew better than to shit in their drinking/bath water. They're poor because they can't produce anything of value on their own.
Note: I hit the limit of posts for today, hence the "Anonymous Coward"...
Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
That's funny because it's true.
May we never see th
In India, labour is cheap. You can hire fairly good prog/sys adm for 1/4th-1/8th the cost of a moderately good American. Linux will help the small businesses, and provide more opportunities to folks (like me) who plan to enter the SMB market with Linux/FOSS consultancy services. (OK, currently I am outside India)
Considering the fact that US Gov/MS have a penchant for interfering, trying to strongarm anyone (including democracies), the less dependent we are on US tech, better for us.
The biggest gains from going F/OSS should happen in the Military, Edu and SMB areas, that's my guess.
BTW, stop trashing India folks. Yoga, decimal system, astronomy, Ayurveda (nature medicine), Meditation, Buddhism, Karate, Sanskrit etc originated in India. Do you westerners ever consider that? All that is FREE! No Patents, No Copyrights.
"India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished."
:)
What is this elvish spell that decieves my eyes? I believe the terms "working package for fair prices" and Microsoft software are pretty much mutually exclusive
India can build their own OS, hardware and database system and language, Only problem is Indians are not ready to think this way. They are not ready to fight to get adjusted with current situation of India. As you can see there are more number of psychiatric case in banglore after dot COM then ever. The younger generation's hero is people like sabeer bhatia who earn millions in few years, but that is not the truth any more. The hero who can show path for Indian IT future is the one who will give idea to build entire home made software and hardware solution. The confusing part is that Indians still want to work for foreign company and yet want to live and think like their parents who have experience of working in Indian companies like TATA, BIRLA and Reliance. Or in Indian Government organisation. Where competition means bloody politics, and narrow-minded approach. Indian government must think that ultimately you have to give price to LINUX also in one way or other. As most of the user group are nothing but free bug fixing hut for any software. And as far as cheap labour is the question, ha ha India is the best. Now we have answer of poor people also.
...do you really think that Office, Explorer, Visual Studio, Visual Basic, ect ect ect HASN'T been ported to Lunix?
Yes. The windows API hasn't been ported to Linux, GDI hasn't been ported to Linux. That is a tremendous amount of work that would all have to happen first. This topic hasn't failed to come up, and Microsoft's position has always been that it would much too expensive and their isn't any reason (i.e. the major desktop demand for Linux is to escape the rather low licensing costs so why would these same people pay for Office et al).
why is everyone so down on this post? it sounds like a legit question to me
No, you're not reading my comment correctly. The point is that if other countries did what you want to do to them, we would be poor. The only reason India is poor is because of people like you who must shop USA and for those people who don't understand that India = cheaper. If India was given the trade opportunties that the US is given and if they had the relations that we did, they would be just as powerful as us. And if we had the relations that they do, we'd be poor as them. So you are the reason they are poor! Yes, you!
Regarding your point about not producing anything of their own: What the fuck are you talking about? India has some of the best technical institutes in the world and a large portion of the people are college educated (just like most Eastern European countries in the same position), they have vast argiculture capabilities, and they have many vanity resources (spices, dyes, etc.). That's not even mentioning tourism, much livable land, cheap labor (you don't really think that the keyboard your typing on was made by a union worker, do you?), and others.
what new skills training? requalify the DBAs and the Architects into janitors? no thanks.
PS. I'm not registered, I always post as AC
Do you really think that if the United States stopped trading with everybody (specifically Iraq and Saudi Arabia, our main oil suppliers considering that Venezuala is for shit now), dropped Alaska (we bought it from Russia, you know, because of good diplomatic relationships), we would still be the super power that we are?
America's greatest rise to international prominance was in the post WWI world where trade had dropped off sharply. Today as a percentage of GDP trade is still not 1/2 what is was before WWI. The fact is that US has an enermous amount of natural resources and a very diverse economy. In terms of relative power a low trade world is probably better for the US than a high trade world. America trades because in terms of absolute growth it is better.
So actually yes we would be a super power regardless.
The five most popular first lang of the world are in order:
(1) Mandrain Chinese
(2) English
(3) Spanish
(4) Bengai
(5) Hindi
There seems to be a lot of India Free Software fans out there too. So my question is why is there no translations for things like Debian and Mozilla for these extremely popular languages?
Maybe there are and I just can't find them, but it seem the two most popular langs of India could use some more support in the Free Software world.
heh, haven't seen any lepers in the U.S. for a while and the water is safe to drink. who's really winning?
"Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked? Of course not, because I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry."
What the hell are you talking about? OK, I know that most home users don't have the expertise to modify source code, but any big organization like a government or a company will have access to experts that know UNIX and C -- these people have the skill to squeeze more utility out of a piece of software by modifying the source. The only relevant issue is whether it is necessary (or cost effective) to do that. While each case is probably different, I'm sure that any sufficiently large organization is going to need at least some custom-written software. So there is no "already working package".
"Oh, and all you complaining about not having a job -- I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius, but it seems to make sense doesn't it?"
Actually, I think that India's decision won't affect the US economy either way. The fact that they are using Linux doesn't mean that they won't want to buy proprietary software to run on Linux. I've never seen a company or a government go 100% open-source. Really, the only American company that stands to lose anything is Microsoft. I don't see how Microsoft's profits can seriously affect the national economy -- where I live, for instance, the economy doesn't seem to be affected by the tech sector at all.
Steve
The only solution is for US workers to reduce their demands
Won't happen. Americans will find something else to do that pays better money.
Does you or somebody you know drive a car? When one drives a car, they put gasoline in, right? Where does that gasoline come from? Oil, right? Where does that oil come from? Venezuala, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Alaska, most likely. Venezuala is on the verge of civil war, you've isolated yourself from the Saudis and the Iraqis, and Alaska is under the control of Putin. Oh well, it looks like your kids aren't gonna get to soccer practice.
Using Linux? "You've really thought this through."
Using Windows? "Knee-jerk, don't know any better, lusers."
Whatever.........
I don't know.
But he changed the world.
I don't have to call the OS GNU/Linux to know that all this wouldn't have happened without *his* idea.
Linus is great, probably even more competent than many. But RMS kicked the ball. Who knows how many years we would have to wait for Linux, had he not started GNU?
Good night... Sleep well, knowing tomorrow morning no change in EULA will happen to Linux, thanks to good folks like RMS, Linus, many, many others and... the GPL!
Saudi Arabia exists solely to supply us with oil. Of course, they take that same money and use it against us (hence my signature).
Don't think for a second that we would tolerate them cutting us off, and don't think they aren't very aware of this fact. If they thought they could cut us off, they would've done so long ago. They fuck with us as much as they feel they can, without fear of retribution. They are pussies and weaklings (ie. they're arabs). One day, probably soon, they will taste nuclear fire...
Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
It is pleasing to hear India did not let themselves be blinded by his most billygness. Reading the remarks made by India after that billyg's most graceous donations, I got the feeling they were not fooled by his actions. So does this mean Billyg will want his money back?
My karma is not a Chameleon.
would you care to go and see for yourself? leave the tourist areas and see how filthy it really is.
You, my good sir, are a hypocrite.
I don't care that I made them poor.
All of this is because of their own inferiority.
Unless you made them inferior, you have to pick a position. Did you make them poor, or are they inferior?
By the same token, were the Jews inferior? Were the Poles inferior? Are Africans inferior? Are homosexuals inferior? Are gypsies inferior? Are Catholics inferior? Because they were all persecuted and killed by the Nazis. All of 'em. What about blacks? It's true, they have a higher poverty level than whites in America. Are they inferior? Are they "filthy" because they have a high AIDS rate? Are they "dumb" because they are statistically less educated than white? Are they "poor" because on a whole they have a higher poverty rate? Are they murderers because the leading cause of death in healthy, black males within the less-than-old age range is homocide?
Where do you draw the line? Are Romanians inferior because they were beaten by the Turks and are now one of the poorest countries in Europe? Are Jews inferior because six million of them accepted the fate of death in the death chambers? Because if they are, then I have to as you, why am I--a Romanian Jew--sitting here on a computer reading a [fairly] intelligent news source, being somebody with some intelligence in a middle class family, one who will most likely go on to college, inferior to you? Because if I am, I don't see it.
You really think that the US would go to war if we cut off their oil supply? And why is that? What gives the US the right to demand that countries trade? Just because we use up more gas on useless things (*cough*SUVs*cough*), that makes us more eligible for the oil? That's their home. That's their Jerusalem. That's where their Prophet was born, died, and lived. That's where their religion started. What gives you the right to take that away from you? The fact that you need to ride in 4x4 and drive two blocks down when you could easily walk? I think not, you bastard.
It's obvious to anyone in the US that globalization has only made the extremely-rich extremely-richer and the rest of us into WalMart checkout clerks. I don't intend to get a new job in the global economy wiping the ass of the bastards who sold us out.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
They'll want it free (software).
This is good news though, now all programming can be outsourced to India. No need to pay expensive American coders now. Start filling out applications at McDonalds, guys, you soon won't be needed here anymore.
The rich get richer, thanx to India.
Once Linux gets a large user-base (yes, You can consider it large now, but you'd be wrong in this context, 'kay?), there will be a shitload of user complaints. Finally something will be done about many of the very serious (to a USER, not a techie) problems which Linux faces. And hopefully, our solutions will be better than those of windows.
Remember: Options, not changes!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
So now Slashdot officially endores state central planning? The government really seems to have thought this out all right, I guess we should let them decide what software we should run. Hey, it worked in the .su, didn't it?
I think he's saying that they're inferior, and that it's our duty to exploit those that are inferior. you know, kinda like the other kids do to you.
they're poor because they aren't smart enough to avoid exploitation.
How big of a tee-pee will the Indians need for their server room?
-1 Wrong.
Is this another case of people in the USA not knowing there is a wider world?
On the same token, you could say that the Jews weren't smart enough to avoid being gassed. So let's gass 'em, right? Me first, me first!
Like the other kids exploit me? Buddy, I don't know what high school you went to, but I was never forced to produce your sneakers at gunpoint for fifty cents per day in 120 degree heat. Unless of course your school was a sweatshop. Was it?
we probably wouldn't go to war. I'm sure we would just get rid of Saddam in a hurry and set up our own puppet government in Iraq. until we could replace our current puppet government in Saudi Arabia, of course.
If the United States had not focused so heavily on securing cheap oil military spending would have been much lower; for example: Truman's actions with regard to Iran is what got Stalin to refuse to leave Eastern Europe and started the cold war. American society would have developed without the heavy dependence on oil. In addition the huge losses due to importing oil wouldn't have occured. The major public works projects like the interstate highway system would have been directed at other causes.
Unquestionably were we today to not have oil it would induce a depression. But that wasn't the initial question. The initial question was about an alternate world where the US along with the rest of the world wasn't engaging in trade in any meaningful way (i.e. WWI - WWII trade policy had been maintained in the post WWII world).
So really the question comes down to would I be driving a car using gasoline today in such a world and my guess is that I wouldn't be. Gas prices never come down after WWII and so cars never become the major form of transportation, the migration to the suberbs never occurs....
Thrue. Idia is probably the only fully-functioning democratic country between Australia and Israel and it owes it's ability to function to the existence of a fairly effective public education system and the highly entrepreneurial spirit of it's people.
Unfortunately, this is true for two reasons.
India has GREAT potential to become an economic powerhouse rivalling, maybe even exceeding, the US, the EU and Japan if they stay on their current path.
utter rubbish
Moderators, how the FUCK is the parent a troll? The poster was expressing his admiration for the glory that is Indian cuisine. By marking his post as a troll, you have obviously indicated your distaste for Indian food and that makes you a xenophobic, racist, ignorant AmeriKKKan fool. I hope you burn in hell for your selfish act of senseless moderation.
I think that India is a hot bed of really
fukken dirt cheap coders who produce a
highly mediocre product, at least in some of the
out-sourced code I've been privileged to review.
-Full o' monstrous multi-purpose classes, dragged
in, kicking and screaming from some other project,
because they almost do the job, and with
a bit of tweaking and arm twisting, hey, it's close
enough for governmint work!
There's no intrinsic software analysis / design
/ coding merit to be had, merely by having
an address in the subcontinent...
T&K.
Political language
you seem to have this fascination with Jews being inferior... does gassing them give you some kind of sick thrill? shit happens. I didn't do it, nor do I think it was a good thing.
I was never forced to produce your sneakers at gunpoint for fifty cents per day in 120 degree heat.
might have done you some good. you might not have grown up to be such a whiner...
anyway, I was actually talking about the tough kids that take your lunch money, or the smart kids that trick you out of it.
But in our "what if" situations, we're talking about policies in the present. What if things were changed today, is what I'm asking. Well, and then there is the overlaying theme that I am a racist is a hateful bastard, but I think that we can all agree on that.
How much money are they saving really? By adopting linux they are also opening thier own tech support centers. Training and hiring those people costs money. They still have to develop (costs money) or buy software (Gee jolly gosh, this costs money too). Supporting linux might actually be a more expensive proposition then sticking with microsoft. I think they did it becuase they feel it is a better operating system. Save money in not needing new hardware maybe? I dont think money was a big factor in thier decision making.
I just don't understand why the Indians are inferior and not the Jews, by your reasoning. If the Indians are inferior because they are being exploited, would the Jews be horribly inferior because they were gassed? Under your logic, I don't see why the fuck not.
You wont need to learn your HINDI, because ALL Indian people who have a college education are fluent in British English.....this includes everyone who is a programmer.....since you need to be fluent in english to become a programmer in india.....
>>>Maybe they will outsource linux support to the us!
>>>I better start learning my Hindi!
that's because you still think you're talking to the racist. I was just explaining his stance, because you seemed unable to understand what he was saying.
I see know that you're not so fucking bright, so I guess my efforts were in vain.
and I'm sure he would suggest that the Jews are just as inferior. what difference does it make? you're not really proving a point here... there are Jewish people of all races, so maybe you're not quite clear on this concept, as usual.
A sudden shift away from trade (particularly oil) would induce a depression. It might be so bad that certain northern cities had to be abandoned. America hasn't abandoned a city since the 17th century that would be huge shock to thing like "investor confidence". A disaster in other words. Unquestionably war is cheaper than trying to survive an oil shock of that magnitude.
A 25 year transition away from imported oil OTOH might not be so difficult. We have lots of uranium. Large portions of the country could make much more heavy use of solar and wind (for example mandatory solar panels on all houses and office buildings in the southern states...). Huge investments in public transit (for example elevated trains for short commutes...). Greater population density in major cities. Reinvestment in railroads to replace the trucking for most interstate trade.... It would be doable.
>I don't care that I made them poor. If it >benefitted me, good, fuck them.
But you don't like it when your philosophy is applied to you. They take away your jobs and suddenly it's not fair.
> and the ones that are educated tend to not be >too smart.
Please step into Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Caltech - meet the faculty and students. See who is doing the cutting edge research. Get a list of winners at the Math Olympiad, etc. True their are some not so brilliant ones around, but, hey, somebody needs to do your job right?
> They're riddled with disease.
Ever heard of the WTO and IP on life saving medicines.
>They are filthy
Part of being an Indian involves bathing every day early in the morning. On the other hand there are enough Americans that don't bathe everyday, don't wash up after using the rest room, don't wash their faces before showing up for work.
> They're dumb and/or uneducated
Just like you. Anyway, your definition of intelligence presupposes education.
> They're poor.
So are people in the bronx - you're point?
> All of this is because of their own inferiority.
Or maybe because they're a peace loving people who've been exploited for centuries.
> Stop making excuses for the failures of a race.
The colonial powers of the years gone by - England, Spain, Portugal
The country responsible for mass extermination of the Jews - Germany.
(I'm sure you know their race)
>I hope some little kid, making $0.05 per week >was whipped until he properly assembled my >keyboard! The little bastard had it coming >anyway...
He wouldn't want that for you because he was taught to be compassionate and look beyond his own nose. You on the other hand...
nuclear energy would be nice, but I can't remember a nuclear power plant being built since the 70's(early 80's at the latest). too many accidents for the public to be comfortable. actually, one accident would have been too many.
we do have large ammounts of coal and natural gas. both are very clean and relatively abundant. some nice solar plant ideas are starting to pop up.
maybe Nissan's shift to hybrids might actually make the auto market fall into line, that would reduce some of our dependancy on foreign oil.
Oh no, I understand his point quite well. I'm just trying to point out that it has no merit. I achieve that by pointing out that if he dislikes Indians for x reason then he must also dislike Jews for x reason. With that, I can disprove that Jews are whatever he says they are, therefore disproving his original point. In a mathematical proof it's called "supposition" and then when you finally prove the assumed wrong it's called a contradiction.
I can hire ultra cheap Indian coders and sell my programs in the USA for the SAME PRICES!!!!
1) Create programming company.
2) Outsource work to India.
3) Sell at full retail in USA.
4) PROFIT!!!!!
Sad news today. 'God', also known as the creator of the universe, died of a heart attack today at his home in downtown heaven, at the age of 51. Details are still being released.
God's publicist issued a statement saying, "God was truly a groundbreaking individual. His acts and deeds will be remembered for years to come. He will be sorely missed."
God's publicist went on to say that private services are being held for God's family and close friends; however, there will be a public remembrance scheduled for God for any and all to attend.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I can't believe what I'm reading today. I really cannot.
From what I can tell this article was origionally put up on slashdot in order to show that Linux and open software were starting to gain some "marketshare" in the global scheme of things with the Indian government maneuvering to deploy the OS.
So what do I find really as I scroll through the comments today? I see people claiming that this is bad because other countries might be using something other than Microsoft, which employs americans. I see racist comment after racist comment. In fact I've seen so much of it in this thread that I am sickened by this.
If this is the case, you might ask why I'm responding or why I even bothered to continue reading. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, or maybe rather than get sickened and let things bother me it gives me the fuel to give a constructive criticism. Either way I'm compelled to speak my mind. Mod me in any direction that seems appropriate.
First of all, I'm having a little trouble seeing how this is costing any american jobs. From everything that I'm gathering here, the Indian government is, by and large, an undeveloped market in computing. No one is losing their job because linux is being used. No market is shrinking over this. The only thing that can be said is that Microsoft is not EXPANDING it's influence into India further. Microsoft still has all the lucritive markets it had before.
Secondly, I've seen many comments about the level of filth or inferiority of the people living over there. Perhaps people have had it too easy for a while to really see one point. In a country like the US, with a relatively strong economy and relatively low unemployment, it is much easier for a person to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. It is much easier to use programs provided by either public or private institutions to train in a field and get a job. What if that was taken away? What if you were born into an environment that wasn't as cushioned? You'd be struggling just as much as anyone there, or anywhere else where life is hard.
Are jobs being lost in the US? Absolutely. Wal-Mart is killing off Mom-and-Pop shops. American companies are killing off other american companies all the time. American companies are even doing things like moving to other spots in the country where employment is low. I can remember the day that the factory in my hometown shut it's doors because the local union employees refused to work for less than $20.00 an hour. They went somewhere more viable for employment. In the case I gave, South Carolina... where people were more than willing to bottle beer for $8.00 an hour. Just because jobs are being lost in America doesn't mean they're being relocated overseas. It's ignorant and just plain fucking stupid to think so.
I do agree with one of the posters I saw here... Americans really do need to learn to tighten their belts if they want to stay competetive. You can't keep on earning a salary that allows you to buy/lease a new car every year, computer upgrades every 6 months, eating out every night, and living like a king to produce a product in a global economy where people with the same skill set are starving and willing to do the same job for much less. It's the reason that a Gibson Les Paul will cost $2000 while the Epiphone Les Paul is $600.
~shakes head~ Okay. I'm done ranting. I'll get off my soap box now. But it's like one poster said... people should be open about thier opinions.
----- I want my LART.
The world already has far worse things than Microsoft. We may like to cast Microsoft as the Evil Empire, but I doubt it's about to overthrow the Indian government and install a brutal military regime. Compare this with the United Fruit Company, now affectionately known as Chiquita.
We had an accident in Pennsylvania "look for 3 mile island". Pretty much nothing happened. Nuclear power plants stopped being built because we brought done oil prices. Given a public terrified of nuclear power and cheap oil nuclear doesn't make sense. Given expensive oil it does make sense.
sorry kid, you're not going to ever be able to prove that. racists don't think Jews are dumb, they just think they're the enemy. they usually come up with some scenario where the Jews are in control of the media and the economy and are constantly waging war against white people.
in racist mythology, the Jews are sons of devils with the sole purpose of oppressing the white race.
contradict that. it's impossible to use logic against theories based on emotion. people with a little cunning often get poor people to believe that the reason they're poor is because of some oppressing force. this is what Hitler did, and this is what Bin Laden and others have done and are still doing.
"As you can tell, I'm a racist. My posts often get modded down, just because of my username."
Well, you could change your name to I'm a fuckwit.
HTH.
stevejsmith wrote:
;)
> Where does that oil come from? Venezuala, Saudi
> Arabia, Iraq, or Alaska, most likely.
The US gets 15% of its oil from Venezuela, and 5% (when they are in the mood) from Iraq.
They aren't the only oil producing areas to shop from:
US: Texas, Louisiana, California, Oklahoma, and Alaska
Rest of North America: Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Canada
Middle East: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates
Europe: Russia, United Kingdom, Norway
Africa: Northern Africa, Nigeria
Asia: China, Indonesia
> Venezuala is on the verge of civil war,
Venezuela is attempting to depose their president by having a strike. Very innovative of them. However, I don't think they can keep it up very long since it is massively hurting their economy.
> you've isolated yourself from the Saudis and the
> Iraqis,
The Saudis don't want to get caught between the US and Iraq. I can't say I blame them. I doubt they would discontinue selling us oil, as it would hurt them too. Iraq has been refusing to sell their oil as a form of protest of our current state of unfriendliness (or some such reason).
> and Alaska is under the control of Putin.
Huh? You do know the US bought Alaska from Russia a long time ago, don't you? It is a state of the United States of America! I don't see how Putin would have any control unless he got elected governor of Alaska. He'd have to be a US citizen for that to happen, and there might be some conflict with his current job.
Now returning you to your regularly scheduled topic. I'm glad India is telling Microsoft where to go (bad litterbugs). Linux is a good start for them, but there is no reason they can't develop a few operating systems of their own. The more the merrier, as long as open standards let everything work together.
Chief Tsujimori: "I won't let you get away. I will never let you escape."
Godzilla elegantly lifts his tail skyward to give her the "finger", crashes it down on the water, and submerges.
"Godzilla X Megagiras", 2000
on the other hand, Chernobyl did major damage... it's just a misconception they have. the scary thing is that the old plants that still exist could easily be replaced by modern plants that have less chance of mishap.
people still have a picture of smoke stacks spewing out black fog when you mention coal, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to get people trusting nuclear power again.
the government and the private sector would have to work together with a massive campaign to start.
those "not in my backyard" laws haven't helped the situation.
> India is probably the only fully-functioning democratic country between Australia and Israel
Which way around?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
> How much money are they saving really? By adopting linux they are also opening thier own tech support centers. Training and hiring those people costs money. They still have to develop (costs money) or buy software (Gee jolly gosh, this costs money too). Supporting linux might actually be a more expensive proposition then sticking with microsoft. I think they did it becuase they feel it is a better operating system. Save money in not needing new hardware maybe? I dont think money was a big factor in thier decision making.
Step back and ask yourself how much money will flow out of the country this way over the next 30 years vs how much would flow out if they didn't switch.
What India and others are doing is commonly called "opting out".
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Chernobyl did major damage because they had less fall back systems. More importantly they lied about what was happening. If there hadn't been secrecy the damage would have been much less.
As for NIBY, inevitable domain exists in every state (and certainly the federal level). A genuine national program with broad political support would simply force it to happen. Similarly for the PR; Americans aren't stupid if they see the government doing as much solar and wind as they can; and cutting out oil and yet saying we are (say) 300 reactors short on the electricty front they will believe the government. And when they say "we need 300 reactors and we are putting them in locations X1 through X300" they'll go along. What's the alternative: no heat in the winter? No transportation at all?
You are correct in that most so-called programmers with less than 5 years experience think they "deserve" a six-figure salary because they used to be with some dot-bomb. You are also correct that most of them aren't productive enough to justify those rates.
The problem is that people with the experience to justify those salaries have a hard time getting noticed and hired when 490 of the 500 resumes submitted are barely or un- qualified.
The problem is also that businesses have no problem nickel and diming their development salaries post-dot-bomb. Hell, I just saw a posting for Oregon that was offering a whopping $12/hour for front-line Unix support. How many people with any kind of professional training (doctor, engineer, lawyer) would even dream of taking a job at such rates? Yet it's "greedy" for me to expect to make a living with a University degree and fifteen years experience to back me up?
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I am shocked to see how quickly this post has turned into racist troll bait. It's amazing how ugly people's attitudes can turn with a downturn in the economy. So many people here are quick to blame Indians for the fact that there are so many jobs being shifted overseas - aren't the American companies and the US government that allows this also to blame? I do agree that we should be more protective of our domestic economy, but the people that are truly profiting off of cheap Indian labor are the American mega-corps like IBM, Sun and Oracle.
This post has been eye-opening for me, as an unemployed Indian-American programmer, because I've always seen the entire Linux/Free Software/late 90's geek culture as a new kind of social phenomenon unencumbered by the baggage of the past, including racism and nationalistic xenophobia. The idea of all these foreign governments throwing their weight behind Linux means that there will be a larger userbase, more developers, and more vitality to the entire Free Software movement. But instead of greeting this with open arms, I see lots of people denigrating India and Indians. Yeah, more curry jokes and discussion about filthy, stupid Indians. Don't forget that your favorite OS was initially developed overseas by foreigners and is currently picking up lots of steam in Asia.
i agree.
indians, especially the southern ones (the northen ones have caucasian blood so they're usually smarter and don't look half as disgusting as the southerners) are basically the niggers of asia. i don't like saying this and i know it doesn't sit well with most people but its the harsh truth. in most countries roughly 2% of the indian migrants are computer programmers, etc, and the other 98% are labourers (construction workers, etc), and its the 98% that cause lots of social problems like lawlessness, squatter settlements, etc. just go to the "little india" of any country and you'll see what i mean.
This is good news indeed. As a linux programmer based in India, this certainly is more than a great news. All the more happy, just like many others out there, that Windows is being shown the door. Beleive it or not, the Open Source champions in India owe a lot of thanks to Bill Gates for this. If he hadn't come to India to make a publicity stunt of supporting the AIDS cause( ofcourse he is more worried about Linux than AIDS ) Linux would not have got so much attention in govt. circles and media as it does now. A few months ago any ordinary business man would know and talk only abt MS and Windows. Now he knows about Linux also. Now whenever the media talks MS it talks about Linux in the same breath. Free OS gets free publicity.
...not feathers.
I'm not trying to put a damper on this, but lets not forget what happened in the past. I certainly remember hearing all sorts plans Mexico had for Linux. There were supposed to be millions of installs by now. Now its just remembered as one of Linux's higher profile failures. So while all the rah rah "let's embrace the underdog" talk is nice, get back to me linux hits >50% of the desktops.
3 7, 00.html
If India is as important to the world of software as everyone says it is, Microsoft isn't just going to walk away. They'll throw a billion or two into PR, lobbying, software give-aways, and FUD before giving up. And then they'll throw in a billion more. Remember money IS the only thing that matters(carve that into your dorm room desk). The fact that MS is competing with something that can be downloaded for free doesn't change anything.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,457
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
it's even for the richer's own good to keep us well fed, or we might accidentally find a stash of AK-47s
I have a dream, oh never mind
Do you pray to brown D_____ ? Check this out From science and computers, a new face of Jesus
Sorry, this might be a flamebait but some people need enlightenment!
Doable, but unlikely. Americans won't walk to work or sit in a train when they can pilot their SUV in luxury and solace. They won't pay for solar cells either.
And Bush is an oil man. He isn't going to mess with big oil.
I also thought all the uranium was in South Africa, and that's why we let them run wild. Maybe that was another element...
They're filthy because they're filthy. No matter how poor Europeans have been, they knew better than to shit in their drinking/bath water. They're poor because they can't produce anything of value on their own.
Maybe you need to catch up on your history and economics.
The English (ok, they think they're American these days, but let's just say they're European, ok) didn't have baths thoughout recent history (1500s to 1800s). Why do you think they wore wigs? Disease made their hair fall out. What was the average life expectancy? 35 was a ripe old age.
Indians had baths from the time of the Indus Valley civilisation, a few thousand years ago. India was a prosperous group of countries till about the 1800s, when the British rule screwed things up. I don't have the patience to go into detail here, but just try and check out India's population growth over the centuries. It's only in this century that Indian population outgrew the world's population growth rate.
Being poor means that you have less access to hygiene, and it also becomes less important than food. Don't stereotype a country based on it's less privileged people, else everyone may conclude that the US is full of people like you.
Guess what. "This year, a British telecom consultancy, Teleconomy, decided to check out if people sitting in London or Glasgow and sundry other British towns could make out whether the call centre agent of X, Y or Z company they were talking to on the phone was an Indian sitting in India or not." http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/u ncomp/articleshow?artid=32399333
Science as a way of life.
Because he's telling the truth that somebody doesn't want to hear??
People..either you are not Indian or haven't heard of the term 'red tape'. No. Am not talking of the famous shoe brand, but am referring to the full time job of n number of bureaucrats and illiterate politicians who are the decision makers. They see only $$ and as you know M$ has already 'donated' some. Don't call me skeptical. Am tell ground reality. Visit any 'computerized' and 'modern' govt. office. You will get an impressive set of software and hardware which the market stopped used a decade back. And guess what..they were 'installed/developed' just than few months back. Seeing all those govt. officials attending foxpro, DB2, WordStar trainings make me sick ...and the only reason they signed for
the training in the first place is the salary
hike and a free ride to the state capitals(where
else can such obsolete softwares taught??).
Only hope people at the top like Mahajan(IT
minister), Karnik(NASSCOM president) have some
sense and strength to overcome these babus.
In India (and numerous other countries), they're poor because foreigners took over their country and siphoned off their wealth for 2 or 3 hundred years.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I see that you are a little unfamiliar with the rage that only us Americans seem to have. Simply put, we are an angry people. Some people think we just try to pass of blame onto other people to take it off of our own backs. This is sometimes true. But it would be much more accurate to say we just blame everyone for anything for the hell of it. When you get to a certain point of pissed off, you can't have enough targets. If you lose your job to someone willing to work 70 hours a week for 35 grand a year, the "hard working Indian immigrant" becomes a "daiper-head terroist" or "dot wearing misogynists", etc. It isn't that most Americans really hate Indians. Not at all. But when we get pissed we aren't afraid to say it. You will also notice more Americans are killed in violent rage by Americans every year than Indians. We just make fun of you, we kill each other.
I'm not sure if everyone knows the core of the linux vs MS war in India. The article might give us the impression that Linux is big in India. Reality check - it's not. You find MS is practically every business and most aspects of academia, save some progressive CS departments. How is that possible with the high license fees? Well, the truth is that India doesn't *pay* for MS. There's no official number but far more than half of the MS installs are pirated. Result - MS seems to be implicitly supporting this piracy. It's a smart move because while they lose out on sales, they get 10% of the global software workforce on their side!
Actually, in Japan, it isn't unusual for the higher ups to take a pay cut/lose their bonuses for the lower people to not lose theirs in these current hard times. In good times, upper management gets a good piece of the pie, but they're willing to take less to keep everyone fed in harder times.
Unheard of in North America, I'm sure.
On a grander scale, when the globalization happens, the playing field starts leveling out. In an equilibrium situation, salary for the same job in different parts of the world should be able to get you the same lifestyle. There is a long way to go there, but it will and it should happen.
I also have something to say to those racist American pigs. They can kiss my a**.
Alright, I'd like you to imagine a Battlemech or a Golem or an Ent--something large. Now, imagine how it walks... Could anything that big ever be described as having precise steps?
Come one, guys "precise" and "wide-reaching steps" just don't go together.
(I think so Brain, but where will find rubber pants our size? NARF!)
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Of course, back then, while Microsoft was definitely one of the competitors, so was IBM's mainframe world, and to some extent other proprietary operating systems like VMS, since DEC machines were in the right price ranges.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The article is light on details but from reading it there were two things I gathered they were doing:
1. When asking for bids, the requirements wouldn't specify Microsoft - rather specify the true requirements.
2. Computer textbooks wouldn't teach Word or Excel - rather teach how to use word processors and spreadsheets.
Both are things they should be doing regardless of Linux. It's asinine to do otherwise.
Mmmm.. Donuts
First, all you ignorant bigots need to STFU. Go put on your sheets and hoods and go burn a cross somewhere---like your own yard.
Now, get a clue. A low per capita income and lack of overpriced housing does equate to lack of skill, intelligence or ability to get things done. Anyone with a clue about Indian history knows that; anyone with a clue about major contributors to mathematics and the sciences also knows that.
India should be able to do a damn great job applying and massaging up a good national Linux distro. Presuming that many boxen there currently run unlicensed Windows installs, that doesn't mena those same people won't go for something better.
So more power to 'em, and best of luck! If you've got something intelligent to contribute, cool. If you're just another ignorant bigot running off at the mouth, go see your boys in D.C.
Happy Friday,
Thumper
That's ridiculous, and both of us know it.
Excuse you, but Clinical Depression is not just 'the blues', or feeling a little sad because your boss yelled at you, etc etc.
Yes, I'm aware of the differences.
It's a real disease, and sometimes pills are one of the only, if not the only, treatments with any reasonable degree of effectiveness.
Sure. The common cold is a real disease. Allergies (of the severity that make your nose run constantly for a season, not the kind that cuts off your airways) are as well. And neither are particularly pleasant, but people can also cope with each without throwing down Prozac or Claratin. And if they can't, then they may well have to be...depressed.
The point of my original point is not to attack people who suffer from clinical depression in particular. It's that we're giving ourselves all sorts of perks and rewards that the competition is doing without, and that aren't really all that necessary.
May we never see th
I also thought all the uranium was in South Africa, and that's why we let them run wild. Maybe that was another element...
Actually it was tricium (spelling?) radioactive hydrogen for the H bomb. There were 3 countries that could make this stuff (technology + natural resources): the US, the USSR and South Africa. The USA's was outdated and universally everyone (pentagon included) agreed that they needed to be taken down for multi-year repair work. The USSR wasn't going to sell it to us for obvious reasons. SA wouldn't sell it to us without a lifting of all sanctions.
true. there are good sides to globalization. But there are also big risks too. Such as how long it takes to globalization to actually work after its 'version 1'.
It looks like it will be a corrupt $$ ruled and goverment exploited world for a long time until things get so bad that something is done about it. Then, if the humans are still alive it will be good.
Anyone remember software engineering? or is one?
Its in the best nature of software development to have large groups of peer review, tons of documentation, source-code access (documentation is not perfect), a diverse development team with a broad range of talents--and correct allocation of those.... etc.
Open source is the BEST model for the developement of computer software, or for that matter many other forms of design. The other issues such as profit, are unrelated to the fact that it is still the BEST model.
Why re-invent the wheel when the experts can unite and work/collaborate in groups LARGER that previously possible?
Not even MS can out pace the schools, governments, volunteers, and yes even corps working together -- perhaps not as well organized as a monopoly, they has more than enough man-power to use shear force.
An OS is not a big deal. It should never have been.
An OS is just like a DRIVER.
It would be a different world if all your INPUT devices used a single bloated buggy driver...
think user side: They just want to email & surf not learn what an OS is or pay for it.
The market should have been based around the hardware, which just came with drivers that worked together in conjunction with the "master" driver.
I would not pay for a driver for my new mouse. would you?
Other countries have been doing call center outsourcing for a long time - the Caribbean has a lot of it, and while C&W was a monopoly in much of the area, it was much more competent than VSNL, and the area has some level of integration with the US telecom networks.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I'm not sure what you are trying to convey with this sentence - racism (or anti-), humor, sarcasm, or just plain confusedness....
But $2000 per year in India is a number beyond the comprehension of US residents - it's probably the equivalent of $60000 p.a. in the US.
In short, you would be "rich".
Hey,
Can you give the source of this information. This is a new information for me
raj
Sarovar.org Hosting for open source projects in Indi
As far as concrete pro-Linux acts go, government tenders may soon stop specifying Microsoft or any other vendor's name while floating software tenders
That's precise if you say "will soon" instead of "may soon". Otherwise it's just conjecture.
The government is also setting up special interest groups with officials of industry and academia to find out how Linux can be deployed in e-governance, defence, education and so on.
That's only wide-reaching if these groups actually get up and do something.
Don't get me wrong - I think we'll see a lot of good IT out of India, and indeed there is already a lot of good stuff coming out of there. They are WAY ahead of supposedly developed neighbours yet early enough on the curve to avoid this Microsoft hold on the market. Think about it. In the US, Microsoft has dominated since DOS days, and people can't accept Linux, they think it's something new. IIRC however, Linux is now 10+ years old.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
I'm a Sys Admin in Switzerland for a small company. I was unemployed here for almost a year before I took the overworked, underpaid job that I now have. I have since found out that a guy from Egypt (MCSE) and a guy from India (CS degree) both interviewed for the job. They were both turned down because they both expected almost double of what I am earning. Their level of IT education was higher than mine and they were both very competent I have heard. I'm envious that I don't have the education to ask for salaries like they did.
The morals of the story:
1.When times are hard you have to go with the times. This goes for workers of every nation, race and creed.
2.An institution will go for the IT solution that provides the best price/performance solution.
3.IT workers of all nations are dumb in that we don't form Unions. The exploitation of IT workers of all nations, seems to be similar to the sweat shops of the third world.
Power to India for considering moving to Linux on a big scale. The independance gained for them is a major point given that MS (and other large US industries) are not above using the US government to strong arm nations into becoming franchises for those same industries. I only wish that some other governments, including those here in Europe *and* the US would have the same long term view, because MS is only going to get more and more mean and tricky the more they fear the Linux revolution.
...a year, tops. If you think Bill Gates can't afford such an effort simply for the exercize you are crazy.
He can, and has. Take my work for it.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Sorry, couldn't resist...
-----------------
assume a client has a budget of US$7500 for a project.
1) the client asks an US programmer the price for doing the project in php and he says US$6750.
2) the same client asks a programmer from India the price for doing the same project and he says US$675.
3) Now if the client pays US$675 and completes the project thru an offshore programmer in India ..The programmer in USA will continue to lose projects and the programmer in India will continue to gain projects.
4) How to reverse this trend ?
In step 3 above if the client insists on paying atleast US$4750 to the programmer in India for completing the project.
How much the SAME programmer will charge when he is asked to do the next project of the same calibre by a DIFFERENT client ?
will he ask US$675 or US$4750 ?
He will definitely go for US$4750 and this way the asking rate of both offshore programmers as well as USA programmers will slowly become even.
Chris ,
Php Programmers.
: Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers. Looks like they've really thought this through.
Government sponsored *anything* is not thought through. Government never does anything efficently (expect war, maybe).
A throughly thought through program would have found ways to have the private sector (ie employers) take on those rolls.
While I am glad to see, finally, a significant embrace of linux and open source, having a government support it in that manner goes against the concepts and ideals of the open source community.
*yawn*, these Linux in india stories remind me of my business 105 class: inflation
Fleur de Sel
"Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked?
Yes, you do, and yes, it does."
Oh really? Could you please tell us all how to access that? My car is a 1996 and to this day the only place I can get plugs and MAP sensors for it is Ford. The major aftermarket suppliers have told me that's because Ford hasn't released the data.
Speaking of data, the computers seem to be closed devices as well. I would love to have all of the engineering details about them and the source code. In my case, working on public safety vehicles, I could modify those (especially the body control module) to make the vehicle more safe for the operator to do their job.
You guys need to find another industry for an example. The automotive industry is what Microsoft uses as an EXAMPLE, both in engineering and business practices.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
But when one of those "niggers of Asia" was born, do you think that they had a choice? If they were born in the United States to some middle class white Protestant family, do you think they would turn out the same way? Of course not. Your development depends on your enviornment, the reason why if you're cloned and seperated at birth and then you reunite with your clone you will probably be noticably different. What choice do these people have to succeed? None. So how are you going to pass judgement on people who have never gotten the chance?
No, you have to read the other posts to see what I mean by not getting oil from Venezuela, Alaska, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq. If we followed "I am a racist."'s suggestion of "fucking Saudi Arabia," we would not get there oil. He wants to voluntarily stop buying oil from them. And my reason that Alaska would be part of Russia is that if we did what he wanted, cut off all international relations, we would have never even gotten Alaska so very long ago. I'm trying to prove that if not for globalism, what he is so stroly opposed to, we wouldn't have oil, we wouldn't have Alaska, we wouldn't have America. Surely he doesn't think that most of us are Native Americans, does he?
I was trying to convey the fact that the Indians, many of whom are educated but can't find work to suit their education, need it more than the Americans who end up getting the jobs. And yes, that number was arbitrary, $200 per year would be a little more like it.
Dealing with minor physical and mental illnesses used to be a hallmark of maturity and professionalism. Nowadays it seems like those of us who just get on with it are punished for our insensitivity, and/or our ability to deal with such matters independently means, _by definition_, that we don't actually, *really* suffer. Because if we did, we would obviously be in the care of "mental health" professionals.
The Indian gov't is hardly going to make a dent in the worldwide IT strategy with their adoption of Linux. They will probably spend a truckload of money and then start releasing contract tenders which will start an all-out bidding war between companies in the private sector. of course some unheard of 10 man shop will probably win this bid. They will probably use DOS with FoxPro/Clipper eventually.
Yes, India is filthy as hell.
Israel, alas, is an apartheid state.
My Country, Israel, does not think that Humans have rights at all; like leaving their own front door.
I personally am lucky on that front, I only got arrested three times, and my home was searched, for making minor protests like waving a pirate flag on my own balcony.
YHBT. YHL. HAND.
The entire world is hungry for Linux tech support, and the Indian government has the capability to become the largest single source of Linux guru's. For a moderate yearly fee, they could become quite effective as the world's largest Linux Support Center, and quite rich as well...
The USA started becoming a service based economy 5 years ago. Look at education...what have we been training our population for...nothing, but to be consumers.
Your conclusions are all correct, just very late coming, that's all you've managed to point out.
Stay competitive? The horse has left the barn... We're history now...you just don't know it.
He thought of Musashi, the Sword Saint, standing in his garden more than
three hundred years ago. "What is the 'Body of a rock'?" he was asked.
In answer, Musashi summoned a pupil of his and bid him kill himself by
slashing his abdomen with a knife. Just as the pupil was about to comply,
the Master stayed his hand, saying, "That is the 'Body of a rock'."
-- Eric Van Lustbader
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...