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Nicotine-Free Cigs, Genetically Engineered
jim.b0b writes "Wired has an interesting article about nicotine-free cigarettes, made from genetically engineered tobacco grown by Amish farmers. Vector Tobacco is hoping that their Quest cigarettes will make them a viable competitor to RJR and Phillip Morris. Don't worry, they are nicotine-free, not carcinogen-free."
Grown by Amish farmers? Hmm... Something about this doesn't smell right. ;-)
...genetically engineered tobacco grown by Amish farmers
'nuff said.
slashdot!=valid HTML
IANAS (I am not a smoker) but isn't the reason most people smoke for the nicotine?
That's like alcohol-free beer. What's the point?
Until then, I waive my paw at them and say "Bah"
Still, with a plan, you only get the best you can imagine. I'd always hoped for something better than that. -CP
When I used to smoke, I smoked for the nicotine...What good are these things.
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
Like parachuting from a 4-feet ladder.
love slashdot. populate it. use it. abuse it. hate it. kill it. miss it. stop following links, they only kill servers.
... as the Amish plan to start producing buggies without wheels by the second quarter of 2004.
*nix.org - You say you want a revolution?
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
I don't understand. What is so bad about nicotine? The nicotine just keeps you addicted. It's the thousands of chemicals like TAR and like CHLORINE that will kill you.
I'm still not sure I undrestand why cigerettes even have those other things in them. WOuldn't they be just as good without them?
One main reason smokers smoke one or two or more packs a day is that is the level of nicotine they are addicted to. Take away the nicotine and they'll be puffing away on 4-6 packs a day...
Ishmael: Hey Ezekiel! I have an idea! We can grow genetically engineered tobacco that is non-habit forming!!!
Ezekiel: That's wonderful! What is genetic engineering?
Ishmael: Well, you take this machine, plug it in, and...oh...nevermind.
People have been clamoring for years for a cigarette that still tastes terrible, makes you smell, and kills you but doesn't get you high. I'll bet these will be really popular among the total idiot crowd.
Reminds me of an old Larry Niven quote about smoking. (sorry if I must paraphrase, I cannot remember the exact wording) "I love smoking, I think it's one of the few joys in life. If they ever make a cigarette that doesn't kill you, I'd start smoking again in a flash."
I read the internet for the articles.
Isnt another name for this marijuana?
Wait until they find out that without nicotine there is absolutely no reason for someone to use their product. I mean look at the stunning sales of alcohol free beer.
Chris
The point of these cigarettes are to help people trying to quit smoking, actually succeed by slowly weaning themselves off the chemical dependency of nicotine. After that, they can address the psychological dependency of having something to puff on.
"Asking smokers to quit smoking is like telling people to get out from under the sun, its not going to happen...so you sell them sunscreen."
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
As someone who smokes and wants to quit, these might be better then gum, etc.
It would be cheaper as well. It would be interesting to see if it could be used to calm the cravings slightly. Fooling you into think you are getting the nicotine witout really getting it.
As a smoker I'm not sure if I smoke for the nicotine, or if I just smoke to smoke. It would be interesting to see. When I drink I usually smoke a ton more then usuall, once drunk I don't know if I'd recognize the difference.
Although this is probably a good thing (even though you're killing yourself, you're doing it without addiction), I think there may be an overlooked aspect here.
Considering how uninformed the typical consumer is, I fear this could result in a rise in the number of smokers. When Joe Sixpack is browsing through his local 7 Eleven and sees a pack of cigs with "Nicotine Free" on the box, what if he thinks "Hey, I can smoke without harming myself" and takes up smoking. I think this is not an inconceivable situation. I would hope that these things come with additional warnings stating that while they do not contain addictive nicotine, they are still cancer causing.
My other sig is funny!
This is nothing new really. For decades you have been able to get "herbal tobacco" which contains no nicotine. Some dope smokers roll joints with it to avoid getting hooked on nicotine. The actual point of it is the same as the point of these "nicotine free" cigs- to get you unhooked.
I personally prefer using nicotine patches- so it's the other way around- nicotine and no smoking habit.
The reason it's better is that you get rid of the withdrawel symptoms because you are getting nicotine, you aren't breathing smoke so it's better for your lungs- and you can use public transport and walk into shops without having to have a quick cig first- which is an actual bonus to giving up.
I find people who give up by using, say, nicotine gum or lonzenges have an easier time to start with because they get a nicotine buzz, and there's a new ritual to replace the old one, but then a harder time getting from the replacement to nothing at all, as they haven't kicked the "ritual" part of smoking, or the nicotine delivered once per hour (or whatever).
The only benefit of nicotine free cigs compared to the existing "herbal tobacco" if that's the way you want to go, is that the herbal tobacco cigarettes normally smell so bad that they clear out rooms- even of people who quite happily tolerate ordinary cigarette smoke.
graspee
subject says it all... why don't we worry about weaning the cancer-causing part of the habit first? there are few side effects to a typical dosage of nicotine, but many to typical dosages of cigarette smoke (and attendant formaldahyde, ammonia, dioxine, urine, and whatever else they put into cigarettes).
Just raise the taxes on crack.
Forget cigarettes... smoke a salmon.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
You're making a big assumption that most people only drink beer because it has alcohol.
;-)
For me, I'd be delighted to find a good-tasting alcohol-free beer. Or even a very low-alcohol beer. To me, it's the taste of having a good beer that is most important, although I admit that the alcohol is a nice bonus most of the time.
But imagine being able to have a couple of stouts at lunch time, and then still being able to operate heavy machinery without killing someone (or running servers without bringing your corporate web server to its knees)? That would kick ass. Beer tastes so good.
The non-alcohol beers, unfortunately, are not worth getting....
Cheers,
Vic
The picture at the bottom of the article has the following caption:
An Amish farmer takes a cell phone call as transgenic tobacco dries inside his 250-year-old barn in Holland, Pennsylvania.
Wonder what he uses for a ringer? Maybe a knock and a voice saying "Jedediah, thee has a call".
Come to think of it.. how does he recharge the thing?
Did they catch on? I remember the new stories when they came out but I never saw them anywhere.
Perhaps this could the innovation that makes it easier to quit smoking.
The article states it's a three step solution:
Quest 1 = 17% less nicotine
Quest 2 = 58% less
Quest 3 = nicotine free
Except, it looks as though they haven't quite gotten there yet. From the Vector Tobacco website:
Virtual Elimination of Nicotine
Scientists have determined that nicotine is the addictive element in cigarettes. Nicotine is an alkaloid that naturally occurs in tobacco. Alkaloids are complex, nitrogen containing compounds that naturally occur in plants, and have pharmacological effects in humans.
Vector Tobacco has the rights to a proprietary process that virtually eliminates nicotine from tobacco. Vector Tobacco's virtually nicotine-free process represents the first successful attempt to significantly lower nicotine in the tobacco leaf by growing tobacco plants bred to block nicotine production. While tobacco from an initial crop registered a trace level of nicotine, the company's goal is to grow tobacco with undetectable levels of nicotine.
Many scientists in the field believe virtual elimination of nicotine content is an important and much-needed step in the market for tobacco products.
So, it appears there will still be nicotine. You may just end up smoking more in the long run.
You still have to have mental discipline to quit.
I'm not at the forefront of the changes in the Amish community or anything, but doesn't the phrase "genetically engineered tobacco grown by Amish farmers" seem a bit odd?
I've been a smoke for many years, I remember my nicotine addiction starting at 8 when my old man use to let me grab a pinch of beechnut. I remember feeling like crap and being addicted to it for a while, then later on quitting, then becoming addicted to cigerettes at 10 when I went to live with my mom.
So here I am, over 20 years of putting this crap in my body.. The sad thing is when I don't have it.
First sign is nervousness, agitation. Then I go into cold sweats as my body excretes tar and nicotine out from my pours. Third stage i'm rollin up butts from the ashtray.
For those of you that don't understand the nature of addiction, let me tell you, I go through it every night. At least when I sleep, I have nothing to agitate me, but I still go through the physical withdrawel symptoms every night, proof of which is washing the sheets every 3 to 4 days to take out the yellow stain from my tar infused sweat.
I hate cigs, they are a tax on my life and my health, and I feel that the addictive traits of nicotine has been played down to avoid lawsuits. I've even developed shakes at times, no different than any heroin junkie.
I tried quittin new years cold turkey. I just bought a carton of marlboro reds today for 30 bucks. Previously I tried patches, gum, and hypnosis.
I have heard of anesthetic therapy for herion users. Sorry for no link but I remember seeing it on dateline NBC, search there produced too many results. The premise is simple, hook a needle up to the patients arm with a drip bag of sodium penathol and let them sleep through their withdrawels.
As neat as this genetic amish tobacco sounds, it just won't cut it for people who have been smoking as long as I have. Over 2/3's of my life I've had this shit running through my brain. I need rest.
to help you quit... RTFA.
They have 3 brands that each have a lower amount of nicotine kind of like the patch has 3 different levels to systematically lower the amount of nicotine you recieve.
It makes it so you choose whether or not to smoke, not to feed a nicotine addiction. This guy not only plans to make an ass-load of cash, but to give his customer's choice and reform the tobacco industry. Quite frankly, this guy should get the Nobel Peace Prize or something.
BTW, you can get cartons for ~$20 each online. So if anyone wants an easy way to quit, Drive Thru Smoke Shop
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
I'm willing to bet that blind studies, people will have as difficult a time quitting from these are from regular smokes.
I'm really interested to see the outcome of an addiction study where two groups are given these nicotine free smokes and one group is told that they are smoking regular ones.
This is pure speculation here but I'm betting that the mere thought of them being addictive is enough to make them "addicted".
Similarly, I'd like to see if people who thought they were smoking nicotine free cigarettes have an easier time quitting even if they are smoking regular ones.
depending on how such a study turns out, big tobacco could tell all those bozos to take all their lawsiuts and shove them.
Blaze a trail to the New World
Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if this strand got into the wild?
Not being a smoker, I'd think it hilarious if a large portion of the tobacco crop ended up tainted with the "phony" tobacco. Just on the principle of the matter.
Phillip Morris would have a collective heart attack if their biggest profit maker became non-additive!
=Smidge=
I thought you were talking about Jessica Alba.
Nicotine free cigarretes have been tried before... and it went really bad. The book BARBARIANS AT THE GATE mentions how RJR Nabisco once tried it an have a marketing test which got a 95% percent response: "IT TAKES LIKE SHIT".
People are not cigarrete addicted. People are nicotine adicted. With no nicotine, every smoker will just about give the same response.
Day 1: Start smoking nicotine free ciggies. Maybe these aren't so bad.
;)
Day 2: Ladedadeda...I'm fine, just don't talk to me.
Day 3: Jesus Christ, why do I work with such idiots?
Day 4: Are all users fucking morons or something? Jesus, what sort of prick can't set up Outlook?
Day 5: Ok, that's it, I've had enough of ALL of you! SOMEONE HAND ME THE AMMUNITION!
Day 6: Profi...oops, got carried away there.
Put another way, you can have my nicotine sticks when you prise them from my cold dead cancer ridden hand
The reason this is interesting is because now the chemical and the habit can be seperated into two problems each easier to deal with on its own than in conjunction with the other. Nicotine patches and gum have helped a large number of people give up smoking because they allow a smoker to wean themselves off of the physical habit without having to deal with withdrawal from the chemical. If they are successful at this step, they have come half way and have only to wean themselves off of the patch.
This engineered tobacco allows the same process to work the other way. In fact the two could probably be combined for a very gentle weaning process consisting of first switching smokers to nicotine-free cigarettes and nicotine patches and then slowly lowering the use of one while keeping the other constant and then lowering the second to match.
Also, to all the people saying this is a dumb idea and using comparisons with alcohol-free beer(which they claim is also a dumb idea). Regardless of whether you think it will help people quit smoking or not, I guarantee that enough people will be willing to try to pull in a healthy profit for the company. All those companies aren't making alcohol-free beer because it doesn't sell. So in that sense its definitely not a dumb idea.
lysergically yours
????
Anyone...???
Anyone..????
Beuler...????
Ahhh, killing yourself slowly and horribly with none of the satisfaction associated with the real thing. It's like just eating what's in the grease trough of a Foreman grill and throwing the hamburger away.
what we really need is a stink-free and smoke-free cigarette so us non-smokers can go out to a club without having to throw away our clothes the next day.
I'm praying they pass the smoke-free law here in Calgary, Canada.
And that's why it will never happen.
Constitutionally Correct
most smokers who try to quit end up starting to smoke again days, weeks, or even months later- long after the nicotine addiction has passed. this is due to a psychological addiction which is usually much stronger than the physical addiction to nicotine. this product does not really address this issue, and IMHO, might cause people to smoke more, since they won't be experiencing the nicotine which they need to "take the edge off" of a stressful situation.
*cue deep, addicted-cow voice*
T-O-M-A-C-C-O
If Marlboro were to sell nic-free cigarettes, and that caused people to lose their addiction, therefore causing probably a good number of them to quit, wouldn't that be a hit to the bottom line?
At least my nicotinergic receptors were sufficiently and pleasantly stimulated during my lifetime.
Translation:
At least my nicotinergic receptors were sufficiently and pleasantly stimulated during my shortened, putrid, more expensive lifetime (filled with yellow teeth, nicotine stained hands, uncontrollable cravings, and the knowledge that my filthy habit was unhealthy to the people that were close to me).
The stuff grows naturally, has like, zero nicotine, tastes better than regular cigarettes, and it even makes you feel good. Support your local amish hydroponic operation today...buy pot!
The problem with the poison in unnatural cigarettes is the chemicals that enhance the addictive qualities of nicotine. If you smoke a Cigar or Nat Sherman natural cigarette you are far less likely to become physically dependant. The real problem, of course, is the habitual nature of smoking.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Start smoking a pipe! There are several brands of pipe tobacco that can deliver a mean nicotine hit purely through the membranes of the mouth, and they taste good to boot.
Also, even though pipe-smoking is not entirely risk free, its harmful effects get lost in the noise of modern life. The common joke is that pipe-smoking is as bad as eating red meat. Doing the latter in excess will increase your chances of cardiovascular problems, but in moderation it is not harmful. So also with pipe-smoking.
And finally, the smell of quality tobacco is generally considered nice by non-smokers, unless you smoke really heavy aromatics.
So drop those ciggies, and pick up a pipe!
Mart (happy pipe smoker)"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
To me it is folly to tie the health effects of tobacco, good or bad, with public policy.
Individuals should be free to smoke, but be held responsible for the natural consequences. This holds for "good tobacco" or "bad tobacco", as well as other drugs.
(Full disclosure: Non-smoker. Ex-smoker, but not against smoking where permitted by property owners.)
I expect these will do about as well on the market as amphetamine-free speed, and nudity-free porn.
Actually no - if it were a drug delivery system then it would fall within the scope of the FDA's power to regulate. So far the Tobacco companies have escaped that horror or horrors.
Smokeless cigarettes on the other hand (i.e. cigarettes that are considerably better for the smoker and entirely safe for those around him) were ruled to be drug delivery systems, and were kept out of the market. Life is strange sometimes.
What's the point of leaving out the drug?
I wondered about this myself - this stuff will ruin your health without making you feel good. Kind of like taking a burger and removing the flavor, but leaving the fat. Hmmm...
Really, it is, it'll help those who are trying to quit by first removing the nicotine out of the cigarettes. Then get the "patch" or something and wean yourself off that way. As your weaning yourself off the nicotine itself, you can still smoke these nicotine free cigarettes, and you can then start to wean yourself from the habit of smoking them.
...must quit...dammit :)
Normally, when a person wants to quit, they get the patch or something simular and stop buying and smoking cigarettes. You have to give up the act of smoking (which is roughly 50% of the addiction usually) and then simultaniously ween yourself from the nicotine at the _same_ time. With the other process i described above, you can make this a two step approch instead of one leap. It may make it easier for people to quit.
In any case, I smoke. The kind of cigarettes you buy in the store have TONS AND TONS of additive chemicals they use in making them. So to get rid of oh, about 600 chemicals that are NOT needed, I decided not to buy cigarettes from the store. I roll my own with bags of tobacco and filter tubes. I'm willing to wager you could link a major health problem to one of those additive chemicals, if not more.
The additives are their to to make the cigarette burn faster. If they burn faster, you smoke more, you smoke more, you get more addicted, and thus buy more cigarettes. Since i've started rolling my own, I've noticed i smoked far less then I did with store bought cigs.
That and PA got anal with the cigarette taxing, and jacked up the prices of cigs in the state. Needless to say many of people just decided to roll their own like me, it's far cheaper anyway.
Now if they made nicotine-free bagged tobacco for use in rolling your own, i believe this would be the best bet in quitting. Your removing about 600 additive chemicals and the nicotine all in one shot. What's left is just the tobacco itself to wean yourself from gradually. Personally, i'm looking forward to this coming to market.
A Penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
I would never put in my body something genetically engineered, think of the damage it could cause me.
Heck, it may give me cancer for all I know.
Yet another example of our inability to distinguish technological progress from social progress in general. It's, uh, new, and uh, technological, it MUST be better!!
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
What's a hit to their bottom line is being forced to air advertisements discouraging use of their own product! You don't see that every day :) I've always found this very amusing.
On topic, I use to smoke a lot, for maybe 5 years. I still smoke occasionaly when I go out to bars or whatever but am fine not smoking for long periods of time. Nicotine is only a small part of the addiction, for me anyways. As a parent post pointed out (I think), the addiction is just as much about the act of smoking. That's why things like gum and patches, while certainly helpful, don't have the success rate for quiting that one might expect. Cigarettes become such a part of your life after a while, after a big meal, while drinking, first thing in the morning, after sex, driving in the car, talking on the phone, using your computer, blah blah blah... They become associated with everything that you do and when you take that all away... it's very hard to deal with.
One other thing that makes it very hard is by smoking, you meet other smokers. Said smokers become your friends. When you try to quit, all your friends all around you are still smoking. IF you dont have to see it, its not too bad, but being around chain smokers while trying not to smoke really sucks ass. I wasnt able to quit until I graduated college and moved away from most of my friends. Finally I was free of being around cigaretes all the time, and that's what made the biggest difference for me.
Joseph?
If you want to see a film that attempts to make sense of some of this see Devil's Playground. It's about the period in an Amish youth's life called Rumspringa. It's when 16 year old Amish kids walk on the wild side.
The Amish believe that a person should be baptised only after choosing the Amish church. They also believe that this decision should only be made freely by an informed adult. Rumspringa results in a crazy part of Amish life which is fascinating. These seemingly naive, bonnet wearin', buggy drivin' kids party like rock stars. The outcome is equally as fascinating. Each year these kids battle with harsher and more adicting drugs and more tempting technology but the return rate has never been higher.
I got to see the director's Q&A session at Sundance last year and it was incredible to see this young, intelegent, well educated, beautiful woman talk about her feelings towards the Amish. On one hand she saw them as opressive yet on the other hand she saw a life of loving and belonging that she never saw anyplace else.
New Smokable Nicotine Sticks: Can They Help Smokers Quit?
I've heard that the physical addiction to nicotine is gone after 3 days (sorry, no sources available). After three days the addiction is purely psychological. It's known that the psychological addiction is a lot harder to break than the physical. Having a lit cigarette in hand, whether or not it contains nicotine, is not going to do much to ween off the psychological addiction.
I quit smoking, so can anybody. From a pack a day to zero. No big deal, you just stay away for smokes.
What bothers me is the whole set up. If the federal government really wanted to kill tobaco, they could just STOP PAYING PEOPLE TO GROW IT. Of course, the states would lose their lucrative tax base and the economy would lose the export money. Does it bother anyone else that the federal government tells you tobaco will kill you, that you should not use it, but then encourages it's production?
You have to wonder if this will get the same kind of subsidies. If not, we will know that the federal government considers tobaco a nicotine delivery system and encourges it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
What I'd like to see is the ability buy a BIG box of these babies. Like a shoe-box full. All exactly alike in taste, look, feel, smell, etc. Except 25% of them have 100% tobacco, 25% are at 58%, 25% are at 17%, and 25% are at 0.
That would work well for me.
Maybe they could even sell shoeboxes full with different proportions.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
"Using palladium to treat tobacco, they produced a cigarette that caused 70 percent fewer tumors in mice."
:)
Guess that's final then, Palladium is a Good Thing after all
... and then there were none
Some caffeine-free Mountain Dew I had up north. Further proof that it is possible to market and sell products with no purpose.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
So I read the story and went to GIANT and bought a
pack. I'm smoking one right now. It's kinda hard to
describe what it's like, but I just ordered a carton
of them. I bought the Quest3, or "Nicotene Free"
variety. It's about as light as a marlboro
ultralight, but the flavor is, IMHO, better. There
is something missing. Cigarettes usually have a
"bite" to them. Like a sharp edge that's part of
the flavor. It's completely gone. It actually
(IMHO again) makes them taste better. The problem
is that collective bite is what keeps me from
picking up another smoke in 10 minutes. I can see
smoking a lot more of these than the ultralights
I normally smoke. But if after a few weeks I'm
over the nicotene addiction, it will be worth it.
I'm very impressed with this product.
The most important thing any republican needs to know.
It is also proven that dihydrogen oxide is lethal to everyone ingesting it
;)
Water? Well I guess it is lethal to breathe it.
Ultra lights have been an increasingly popular cigarette because of the low amount of nicotine, I suspect this will definitely increase Vectors market share.
"The more diet products you eat, the faster you slim." Clearly, it doesn't work for the consumer, but it works well for the producer. If the pizza is only half size eat two to get stuffed. In the result you will just spend more money to get what you need. With cigarets it also means, you consume more toxines to get the same amount of nicotine.
If you don't smoke for the nicotine but want to have something to play with, use a straw!
This sig is a true statement, but I cannot prove it.