Slashdot Mirror
419 Scam Costs Britons 8.4m GBP in 2002
Albanach writes "In this article the Scotland on Sunday newspaper reports figures from the UK's National Criminal Intelligence Service which show 150 Britons were caught out by the Nigerian 419 scam and its variations in 2002, with a total loss of 8.4m GBP ($13.3m US)or around 57,000 GBP ($90,000 US) a head. "
That we're gullible or just easy targets?
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
The various governments of the world get together and spend the money to educate the public about the Nigerian scam. My relatives delete the e-mail because it's too good to be true, not because they know it's a known scam.
Scurvy makes you think crazy things.
Bowie J. Poag
if more people in britan just reported it. Americans tend to not report things of this nature out of shame. Anyone know anything about the numbers in other countries?
Close to 300 million Americans are caught up in a scam similar to the Nigerian one. See my sig..
Trolling is a art,
While I heartily encourage the full prosecution of the con artists, I don't feel all that sorry for the victims.
:P
I mean, if you're that stupid, it's probably best for society if you don't have any economic influence anyway. Your right to vote should probably be taken away as well.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Dear Sir
We Do Not Know Each Other But I Am The Son Of The President Of Scotland Yard. I Need Your Help To Recover The Sum Of One Point Five Billion Pounds (Bp 1,500,000,000) Which We Have Recovered In Nigeria. To Proceed Please Send Your Credit Card With The Pin On A Post It...
(lameness filter preventing to post in upper case)
Google passes Turing test : see my journal
Or not, if that spelling's anything to go by... Just kidding ;o)
I think it's mainly jelousy on our part. We used to be a world player but now we're reduced to hanging on to the tails of Mr. Bush like some sort of flunkie. Most Americans I have met and spoken to are as intelligent and well-mannered as any Briton, most of the time more so. You just have a propensity for electing to office the same fools we do :o)
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
Never was the National Criminal Intelligence Service less aptly named.
I bet its mostly new users and the eldery. Why a few months ago a colleage of mine received one of these emails and I happened to go over and catch him replying! Lucky him I walked by and explained exactly what it was before he sent all his bank account information. He looked all excited like he was going to become a millionaire until I explained to him it's a scam, and that once he sends that bank account information, he can expect his account to be wiped clean.
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
who have suffered financially due to the scam. However shooting a (Nigerian) diplomat is definitely not going to help things...
United States President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair announced today that Nigeria was the latest target country in the "War on Spam." "Too many rich people have had their money unflairly taken away by these evil people." said President Bush. He continued by saying "We shall wipe them off the continent of Australica." Prime Minister Blair stood at his side in solemn agreement. After President Bush finished, Blair corrected Bush's mistakes for reporters including "unflairly" and "Australica."
You've really got to pity the legitimately deposed dictatorial families that must have a way to get their money out of the country.
They send out email to a select few upstanding citizens, hoping to be able to get their millions out of the country for a small percentage of the money. Then, no one believes that the offer is legitimate!
Yes, these deposed dictator's relatives are the real victims in all of this! Let's not forget about their tragic plight.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
I want to know how so many suckers held onto 90K per person for that long in the first place! Youd' think if they would fall for the Nigerian scam, they'd have bought 800 AB-ENERGIZERs or Ionic Breeze air purifiers by now.
stuff |
You can't cheat an honest person. They weren't gullible, they were willing to lie for money.
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
People....
THE 'victims' tooks part in the scam, trying to import and export money while avoiding reporting it and paying taxes.
Shouldn't all 150 go to prison? Remember, the fraud of millions is also on Brittain's side of the table with its citizens...
Cover your eyes and click this link!
The 419 coalition website fights the nigerian scam
scam alert
A hilarious account of a revenge killing related to the 419 scam
My dad got one of the first 419 scams I know of sent to him and it was very well done. They addressed him by his proper name and position (not hard to find out, but still), the letter was long and well written. I was quite impressed; someone had really tried to make this look as authentic as possible, unlike the ones you usually get now.
If you could clear out someone's account just from their account number and sort code then anyone could it.. after all, you have to swap these details to send money to each other with Internet banking.
What the article fails to point out is that these scammers don't just drain your bank account, they actually request you pay certain 'transfer fees' so that they can get the money moved across. These 'transfer fees', inevitably, are thousands of dollars. Anyone paying them is an idiot.
And that's all this is. I think those scammers deserve every red cent. THIS IS A TAX ON THE STUPID and ignorant, something we should have the state taxing, but if the Nigerians have to do it, so be it.
This is another 'tax' that, like duty on cigarettes and alcohol, doesn't affect me at all.. so I'm all for it.
(Notice how the people scammed all actually had thousands in savings.. a sign that the greedy people aren't the poor, they're the already rich)
mogorific carpentry experiments
What if I gave them my bank account with £0? Tell them to deposit into an empty account.. instead of providing your *real* account? Also, can the banks track who makes the withdrawl so the criminals can be caught?
Fight Crime - Shoot Back!
You want to explain that "scurvy" comment, mate? If it's a reference to the origin of the word "limey", you may be talking about your forefathers, remember...
(this is not a
For some time now I just forward all of this stuff to:
419@spring39.demon.co.uk and new.scotland.yard@met.police.uk
OK, not difficult, but my bit at helping nail these crooks.
The $90,000 per head figure is really tough to buy. The only monetary figure they name is a £7,000 loss for a recent victim. That seems about right to me. I'd be really interested in knowing what the median loss was.
I used to be a narrator for bad mimes. (wright)
Honestly. Hands up if anyone here would accept something too good to be true on face value.
Okay, those of you with your hands up... have I got a great deal for you. For just 9.99....
Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
I bet these are the same people that voted Tony Blair into office.
**Any**thing was better than Major.
Get your own free personal location tracker
Spam is profitable. Current laws allow it to be nearly anonymous. Current laws encourage spammers to lie, cheat, and steal because there is very little chance of repercussions. This goes on through traditional channels, but it often easier to file lawsuits and change behavior because of the tracking of traditional channels. All the filtering in the world in not going to help. It is just like illegal drug or animal trafficking. It is not a problem if 90% of the payload is intercepted. You will make a profit on just the other 10%. We need to apply the rational rules to commercial email that we apply to other commercial speech.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Every time I hear news like this I have to remind myself that 50% of the human race is below average intelligence. Usually when I mention this to someone they say "that can't be true!" Then I know that they are one of the lower half. A fool and his money.....
http://www.codewolf.com - Just good stuff to waste time
Seriously, though, has anybody considered how easy it would be to data mine the output from credit cards or supermarket loyalty cards etc. to identify gullible people? People with a big annual spend who buy gold plated hi-fi connectors, or crystals to stop damaging radiation from computer monitors, or some of the more ridiculously expensive "health" foods. Oh wait, I just saw the special offers on my credit card statement. Someone just did.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Dear Friend,
I am the son of John Q. Lawyer, a highly respcetable businessman from the country of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I got your contact info over the internet during my search to assist those who have fallen prey to unfortunate circumstances. It is my understanding that you have just recently lost funds equal to ONE MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS($1 million).
I can help you recover all of your lost funds. This business transaction is 100% risk free. The only thing I ask is 10% of the total amount to cover any processing fees and legal expenses. All I need from you is as follows: 1. Your confirmation of your ability to handle this. 2. Your word that you can keep this business as confidential as possible as all times until we conclude this business. 3. Your telephone and fax numbers for communication. 4. Your full permanent addess. 5. Your bank account number to deposit your recovered funds.
As soon as I get the above information, I will disclose to you the names of the parties involved and when you can expect for your money to be recovered. I am waiting for your response to enable us to proceed.
Nzanga JOSEPH (DESIRE) MOBUTU
Army of One!
I feel bad for that one actual Nigerian ex-royal who actually is trying to smuggle out his/her money and make a new life. Who's gonna believe them now?
Oh, wait...the British, I guess. Nevermind.
Scam o Rama is devoted to receipients of 419 scam letters responding in commical replies. Very funny and entertaining. One guy convinced a scammer to send him a gold sample which he used to buy beer.
--Rob
"Small, green, and split three ways"
Towards the Singularity.
Will Scotland Yard please release the 150 e-mail addresses?
I have some really interesting never-to-be-repeated offers that will interest them.
As an experiment, my wife replied to one of these scam emails when we first got it. We pretended to be interested in it, and then laughed as we led them on, for at least 5 or 6 emails in a row. "Sure, we'll meet up with you - at this place and time." Then, "Oh, sorry - we weren't able to make it. Hope you didn't wait for us long? Let's try this again." Finally, we just let things get absurd enough that the scammer realized we weren't serious, and gave up.
Well, ever since then, guess what? We get about one of these scam emails per *day*, all slightly different and from different origins.
So I guess these scammers resell mailing lists of people who reply to their original scam letters!
and what was wrong with Mogadon Man ?
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Are willing to participate in a scam to deprive a third world nation of millions of dollars through contract fraud, embezzlement or something similar and who are also...
B) willing to put a lot of trust in co-conspirators for such a transaction...
:)
...are getting rooked for almost 6 figures USD apiece? What's the problem?
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Seriously, you're willing to put $90000 on the table in a scam. You're gullible beyond belief. How many more do you think will pay $10-100 or more for penis enlargements, make-money-fast, diplomas and herbal viagra? One of those famous scientists said something like "Only two things are infinite, human stupitidy and the universe, and I'm not sure about the latter". He's right you know...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Ad infinitum, the world loves a clown.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
I bet BT has seen fit to give all of these *extremly bright* people, who apparently believe anything they read or see on the net, DSL already while folks like me are stuck on dial-up grrrr ;)
Sorry, I just take any opportunity I can to moan about that
--
SA
SA
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS DRIVE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD
;-)
We do drive on the right side - the left side. Left is right and right is wrong. Could it be simpler?
Besides, globally are more miles of left-hand drive roads that there are right-hand drive. But there are more right-hand driver cars in the world. So driving on the left means less congestion. Try it sometime.
Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
I sometimes do. It's thrilling, but short-sighted law enforcement officials frown on it for some reason.
to Nigeria and was held for ransom. They clened out his bank account, and he got his family to pay even more into it for the con men to take.
He was released soon after the money ran out. He gets laughed at alot by everyone here.
Wow, this blew me away...
If anyone's interested... I have a bridge to sell.
One of my favorites (which isn't listed on that page above) is: "I have reached an age where, if someone tells me to put my shoes on, I don't have to."
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Dogbert answers Scott Adams e-mail a snipet from his news letter (I'm Anonymous coward, since United Media sues everyone)
Dear Mr. Adams,
I am writing to you with utmost urgency from Lagos, Nigeria. This is an investment opportunity that you will not want to miss. Ten million dollars in gold bullion has been discovered in a bank account in my family's name. But due to our current cash flow situation, we cannot afford the outrageous bank processing and legal fees to take possession of this gold which is rightfully ours. I am proposing that your kind self wire me $10,000 U.S. to cover these fees, and in return you will receive one million dollars wired to your account after we take possession of the gold. Please respond. Time is of the essence.
Swinhar
-responce-
Dear Swindler,
Mr. Adams doesn't know much about Nigeria, but everything he has heard would lead him to believe that your offer is an excellent investment opportunity with no downside risk whatsoever. Unfortunately, all of Mr. Adams' money is already tied up in the Nigerian court system and he does not have the cash to pay his attorneys to get it back. I propose that you wire Mr. Adams whatever money you do have, then he will free his money for your use. He will also send you a free toaster for doing business with him. It's a win-win scenario.
Sincerely, Dogbert
I'm suspicious of this story for 2 reasons:
1) How could anyone STUPID enough to buy this scam actually have acrued so much money to start with?
2) How could they work a computer with webbed fingers and plankton in place of their brains?
Oh yeah... 3) Profit!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Well, they say that the lottery is a tax on the mathematically and statistically illiterate. I guess this is just another kind of tax. The only problem is that at least with taxes, a certain proportion usually goes to some good things. Like my salary.
The latest breed of scammers are just plain stupid. They don't know enough to delete any .mil email addresses from their spam lists. The number of 419 scams being sent to .mil email addresses goes up everyday. The military is well known for responding with excessive force to ensure problems are taken care of. Some young punk sitting in an Internet Cafe in Nigeria is going to be in for a surprise when a smart bomb crashes through the front door.
Army of One!
It actually a group of people doing it. I have been lucky enough to be targeted by them, and now I get their emails or varations on it daily. Not sure why my work email which never gets spam gets these.
The only thing I can think of is the foreign tech support offices I email. Or a vendor email list im on.
"A fool and his money are soon parted".
I wish I knew that many stupid rich people.
I am 6 trillion times smarter than everyone else. So 99.99 % of the world population are of below average intelligence.
What you mean is below median intelligence.
Moritz
You CAN clear out someone's account, just from their account number and sort code.
If you have access to the US electronic banking system (not hard to do, there is paperwork & security checks, but it's not that hard, many small businesses do it), you can drain someone's account with just their account number. yes. really.
Yes, obviously you can go to jail if ytou do this without permission.. but they ask questions after the fact.
It takes 48 hours for funds to clear. If someone doesn't notice, in time, that the funds were wired away, they could quickly be wired somewhere else.
Have you ever tried to negotiate with him? I found him to be a reasonable man. When I mentioned the I was also in negotiations with the Nigerians, he DOUBLED my percentage. Wow!
I just can't get "girl who runs computer" out of my mind.
You dipshit. The whole point is that you can't be scammed easily. You have to actually be dumb enough to fork over the money by your own will. This is not the same as a hacker getting your CC number and draining it. This is like a stranger coming up to you and saying 'Can I borrow $100,000? I'll pay it back later.'
mogorific carpentry experiments
Now, I'm not jusifying these criminals who defraud people. Personally, as a Nigerian, I am embarrassed to get these letters as well, and once in a while I send a scathing reply (which I bet is promptly deleted)
:-D
:-)
:-)
Don't forget that "no truly honest person falls for these scams". The greedy fools who wanted to defraud the Nigerian government got defrauded themselves, and they have the gall to complain
But one thought constantly crosses my mind when I hear people complaining about these crooks. I am ever surprised that no one talks about colonization, slavery, land grabs, and all the other "scams" the nation of Britain pulled on Nigerians for centuries. And don't forget that those scams were sanctioned by the British Government itself
No, I'm not bitter... part of that was our fault. But when enteprising young men from Nigeria (much like British "entrepreneurs" in the late 1800s and early 1900s) decide to fleece Britain or America, fooling the locals from those countries, I must admit it makes me chuckle just a little bit
Yes some American and British victims are "innocent", and I realize a few people have actually died while pursuing these quests for illegal money, so I'm not trying to belittle the situation; governments should continue the crackdown on these perpertrators, and their foolish victims. Yes the victims; what ever happened to aiding and abbetting a crime? That should make them delete those emails quick!
I hope I have been able to add another dimension to your thoughts when you read about 419 scams.
Nwanua.
The "National Criminal Intelligence Service"? Are they providing a service to the general public or to Criminals?
There are 2 main problems I see right now. First is getting the time to write the thing (in perl), and second the reply addresses could/would give it away to the scammers, if they track the messages sent, or if they catch on to the several domains I use to reply from. A possible work around to the second is to setup mail accounts on various free servers and have them forward, or get other like minded people to donate free accounts on their mail server that simply forward email to an address at my domain, which has no MX entry ... yet...
Please respond to this thread with your comments on this idea, or if you're willing to help me out.
---end of main thread, more rambling about ideas after---
Ideally we could use several mail servers and just put them all in the MX entries for the domain, even several domains, since we don't need to worry about forwarding emails to correct accounts each mail server could be configured to think it's the best MX for the domain and parse/reply locally, thereby speeding up transmissions.
We could also record the information collected about the scammers and submit it monthly to the FBI/secret service. I believe information we could gather could be IP addresses with times on that IP (usefuly for locating a person in meatspace), names and phone numbers (names will likely be phoney, but phone numbers may be correct). Data integrity assurances will be needed to ensure any evidence collected is admissable in a court.
Care will need to be taken to ensure nobody abuses this to harrass non-scammers, a human must be available to be contacted for complaints due to abuses of the system. Reply messages should be kept short, sweet, and be highly randomized, and replies to the replies should be monitored for false positives in the first round.
I'm not sure the legal standing of an idea like this, there may be SPAM laws that cover these uses of email.. although since the emails are generally replies and this is definetly not a commercial endeavour, I think we're safe here.
There is no real useful information at nigeriascam.org as of yet, so don't /. me..
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
I understand they don't clean you out right away. They actually string you along for a while and get you to raise some more funds to cover "unforseen complications" or bribes or some such nonsense. Once they've bilked you out of a lot more than the value of your actual bank account, then they vanish. A woman in the US (CA I believe) actually embezzeled her law firm's ENTIRE CASH RESERVES to give to these d!ckwads. The firm found out when their settlement cheques to clients bounced!
Freedom: "I won't!"
I say the anti-spam forces take this as another reason to get legislators to make UCE illegal.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Having heard about the scam a while back, and having received more than 50 of these things over the last couple of months, I decided to pick one and respond to it in order to both see how far the guy would go and also to tie up his time so that he couldn't scam as many people. The results were fairly interesting and they are as follows: 1. There were a total of about 10 emails exchanged, in which things like "official" passports identifying the guy who I was supposedly interacting with were sent to me. 2. I was able to get him to make two international phone calls to me. I'm sure the phone card was stolen, or at least payed for in GBP. 3. Doing the basic math on the number of gullible people in the world, the number of these guys doing this type of stuff, the number of emails and phone calls sent and received to/from me with this guy... basically results in the fact that I saved at least 3 people from actually losing an undetermined amount of money. I'd be happy to post the email thread if anyone is interested. MH
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
Send me ten quid or a 5 gallons of diesel and I'll cut the fibre for you. Throw in a couple of cans of Guinness and a Tom Yam Chicken with Fried Rice and I'll bury the spammer while I'm backfilling the hole.
I must strongly disagree.
The typical victim is an elderly person, retired, lonely, starting to loose touch with reality, strongly believing that everyone is honest because everyone was so darn nice with them for the last many years. You would be surprise how many elders are happy to simply hear the phone ring and to talk to any phone marketer, no matter what they sell.
85 years old "good person" from a rural background where everyone knows and help everyone else, suddenly thrown in the global IT world can easily get scammed. Ever spent some time in a retirement home?
It is easy to say "They are gullible and got what they deserve" when you listen to the news every day, read the Internet, know what the "Enron Scandal" is, live in a big city where people shoot guns in the streets every week. 90% of the industrialized/western population had a better view of life in the last century.
I am from Montreal the North American capital of phone scams. Typically "You won a Cadillac, but you have to pay for the tax." Once the check is received, "We forgot to mention, you have to pay for shipping fees also." Then it's border tax, and then more.
The statistics are horrible, with more than 90% of the victims in the "confused elderly" category. More than 60% of the victims will even fall for it more than once; they just wait 6-12 months and call again. Phone list of the victims sells for a small fortune.
Some scammers call pretending a bad number, but will make social conversation with the lonely elderly and make friends over a period of weeks, then pretend an urgent trouble "I will lose my house, am forced to quit school... I don't know what to do or where to go for help!" At then end "I thought we where friend I guess you are just a selfish person".
You need to work a beowulf cluster into there somewhere.
Dyolf Knip
Erm, I don't think that was due to Majors skill, or Blairs ineptitude. If you're in power as the economy starts to take off, as long as you don't make any huge mistakes, you're in luck.
Get your own free personal location tracker
All they need are one or two suckers out of the n million messages they send out to keep their operations going.
Yeah, right.
I don't suppose I could convince you to describe it? If it's really that embarassing, then never mind.
Okay, but realize it will probably sound completely stupid to you; it even sounds stupid to me; it sounded stupid to me as soon as I realized that my money was gone.
I don't recall all the details, but here is the gist of it:
I was 18 and driving home from either school (college) or work. While driving past a small old-fashioned grocery store two blocks from my house a black man (I'm white) waved me down asking for help; I don't recall why I stopped; I think he had money or something in his hand that attracted my attention. (Note that non gullible people would've driven by; us suckers wander out of the crowd and identify ourselves to a troll like this, so they already know they have someone they can work with.)
He spoke poor english and wanted some help with money; he had a thick roll of it which later I figured out must've been a roll of blank paper with a couple of $20's on the outside to make it look like a couple thousand. (Showing the money is the first hook attempt: the man appears naive and vulnerable; some might want to take advantage and either steal the money or earn a helpers fee, some like me just want to help him not lose it. It also implies that he's not trying to steal money from you since he obviously has plenty, or at least that's how my brain worked.)
The details escape me, and this story unfolded (and was surely adapted to my vulnerabilities) throughout the con even after the 2nd guy joined in, but it was something like this: He was a sailor or something and had to get back to his ship (and this in the middle of North Texas; wtf?), but for some reason he needed to put his money in a safe place, and it wouldn't be safe if he took it with him. he And didn't trust U.S. banks. Oh yeah, he was a foreigner, too. There was probably some story about family or something that needed the money, but I don't recall exactly.
Okay, so some of this story was started, and I parked my car in the grocery lot and was following him inside (I don't recall why exactly, but it was to help him somehow; maybe to help him understand how to get a money order or something.) On the way in a second man (also black, but it doesn't matter) came out of the store and the "sailor" asked him for help, too. (I never had any clue these guys knew each other until the money was gone.)
So now from my ponit of view there was a person in need and two strangers trying to help him, and the two helpers didn't see eye-to-eye on everything.
Again, details escape me, but between the three of us we came up with that the "sailor" needed to put the money in a bank, but we had to demonstrate to him that the banks and we helpers were trustworthy. During this process the 2nd guy briefly introduced topics such as a pastor down the street and a whorehouse down the street; at the time my brain dismissed these items as completely irrelevant and I steered the discussion towards more relevant matters. (Later I realized he was trolling different possible con scenarios to see where I'd bite...so he could tell by my reactions exactly which direction in which to proceed with the con.)
I only had a few dollars which wasn't enough to demonstrate trust, but they asked if I had a paycheck to cash or something and I did; I had just been paid and hadn't cashed the check yet, but the check was at home. So they convinced me to cash the check; we all 3 got in my car and drove 2 blocks to my house; the second guy told me not to tell my Mom (I was living with Mom and told them so when they asked if I lived with someone), and stupidly I didn't mention it to her; I dutifully went in the house and got my paycheck while two con men sat in the car probably discussing strategy and contingincies.
Then we all drove to a bigger grocery store that would cash my check; this was North Texas in 1988 and on the way there was an intersection where the Ku Kux Klan were demonstrating dressed up in their sheets and waving signs. The "sailor" screamed "the killers!" and shivered in the back seat...an effective method (on me) of generating sympathy. Somehow us two "helpers" calmed him down.
One of the guys accompanied me into the grocery store where I cashed my check.
After returning to my car, the second guy, the other "helper" gave me his wallet and the "sailor" and I walked around the grocery store (out of sight from the "helper" for a few minutes) to demonstrate that the second helper trusted us. I think this was the helper's idea, and I thought it was stupid but the "sailor" seemed to like the idea and was in hook, line and sinker.
While walking around the building the "sailor" kept expressing amazement that the guy trusted us to do this.
The second demonstration of trust was that I gave them my $117 and waited for them to walk around the grocery store. After this the "sailor" would supposedly trust us enough to put his money in a safe place of our recommendation (a bank or money order...I don't recall the exact plan).
Of course you know the end of the story...I never saw them again after they rounded the corner with my $117.
What's horrible is the slow realization that you've been connned. There I was, sitting in my car alone. I had a bad feeling in my gut as soon as they rounded the corner; it briefly occured to me to drive around and check on them, but no, that would ruin everything that we'd worked on so far my brain told me. So I sat. A minute or two passed, and alone in my car I started thinking about how absurd this was, but I hadn't quite realized it was gone yet. I waited and waited and after I was convinced they had been too long I drove around the store and they were no where to be seen.
I can't tell you how humiliating it is; the worst part is realizing how obvious it was the whole time and yet my own brain seemed to be what conned me more than those two. I even realized at the time that some of the discussion was way out of left field, but I--not the scammers--was able to dismiss or rationalize it away. I went home and was in a mixed state of frustration, fury, embarrassment, etc.. I was on the verge of tears. Mom could tell something was wrong and was very worried. It was hard to speak, but I told her what happened. I don't think I told anyone else for at least a few months, and I never told anyone outside of the family until now.
Actually, I hadn't thought about it in a while. It used to be a source of internal shame for me; I suppose I'm finally "over it" after 14 or 15 years. And in retrospect I have some valuable insights out of it for a fairly cheap price. Not that I'd thank them if I ever saw them again....
Now that I think about it, these guys almost never quit talking; I think the idea was to throw too much information at me for me to stop and think about what I was doing; I was too busy rationalizing some of the information and discarding the rest as irrelevant.
These guys were small time, and in retrospect I'm possibly lucky that they didn't outright rob me or take my car, too. The car was traceable, so I suspect they just wanted the cash, and I suspect they would've robbed me in certain scenarios but I was gullible enough that they were able to walk away with the cash easily. It took me over a week to earn that money and it took them probably an hour or two to con me out of it.
You and I could point out countless errors in judgement and alternative action after reading the above scenario, but the con men are good at distraction and manipulation. I suspect there was a thrid guy who might've posed as the pastor if I had gone that route or who might've driven a getaway car at the back of the grocery store.
In reading about other scams, greed seems to be the biggest and most effective hook. Greed, religion (proving your faith through helping a brother) and good samaritanism seem to be the most common hooks. Actually sometmies I think these are combined: maybe the target wants to be a good samaritan but is also distracted by the possibility of getting a piece of the money at stake.
Distraction and confidentiality are importatnt, too. They need to keep you thinking about what YOU want out of the "deal" so you don't stop to think how absurd the situation is or ask someone else for advice. In the 419 scams the greed factor and the 'fact' that breaching confidentiality will make the deal impossible or even dangerous for the other party work to keep the target focused on money and practical details and pitfalls and a seemingly guaranteed "lottery win". I'm guessing many targets are also distracted by thinking what they're going to spend the money on.
Since my guys brought up sex and religion I suspect those are common distractions if the target indicates interest. I've heard of small time scams where "brothers" bilk a lady out of money for "tools" and such for their trade, and I read an account of someone who played the game to see what the 419 scammers would do, and that conversation went religious as the scammer claimed deep spiritual beliefs.
Sex is probably a distraction reserved for small time scams; I'm not sure how that would work in a more sophisticated scam. Actually I'm not sure how that work work small time; I suppose that might end in an outright robbery or leaving the John/target waiting for a woman (or man) in a room while the scammers take off.
I think the art of conning is to entice the target with several types of bait and then work up the story based on his preferred bait and then watch what the target does and follow; I think the con is mostly directed by the target's own expectations and rationalizations and the con men are along for the ride.
Going back to feeling sorry for these "idiots" who got scammed...I had little or no sympathy for them, either, but now I'm reconsidering that. The con is a troll for targets, for the weak or gullible, and fruequently--though not always--for the greedy. It's still hard to feel sorry for the greedy, but the gullible and well-intended get hooked, too. Once you've been hooked I think it's fairly easy for a pro to get to the sting.
Coming up with an outrageous analogy, if people were leaving bear traps (the snap-onto-your-leg kind) around, most people would be smart enough to avoid them. But there would be a small few who would be distracted or just ignorant enough to step into one. (Let's ignore kids since these types of scams we're discussing seem to be unable to target kids.) To the rest of us the traps are just an annoyance we can step around like deleting a 419 email or passing by the man selling Rolexes or whatever. Should we laugh at those who step in the bear traps and say it's their fault for being stupid and applauding Darwin selection?
Hey, what gives, I have been trying to bait them without success for aabout a year. What am I doing wrong? :P
I like this one
scamming Elvis
this guy actually cost the scammers some money.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
I don't mind this scam a bit. I consider it intellectual natural selection. Any moron that is foolish enough to fall for this scam is doing everyone else a favor by being separated from his money in a most appropriate manner.
I have a theory. The same people who fall for this scam also spend money on plastic surgery, Lincoln Navigators, dog sweaters, high-end California Cabernet, Hootie and the Blowfish albums, Mike Tyson pay-per-views, Prozac for their children, and George Foreman grills. The Nigerians are inadvertently doing civilized society a favor.
You may not be bitter, but from what little we hear about African politics and foriegn relationships I get the distinct impression that bitterness at whitey seems to be a fairly strong factor in at least some African countries' dealings with the west.
To give a pertinent example, the attitude of your country's government and that of the South African government towards Zimbabwe and the recent actions of its leadership, are very hard to explain.
As the situation is reported here, Mugabe is a violent thug who resorted to violence and fraud to win himself another term of government. His policy of taking land off white farmers and handing it over to black party cronies who have no idea how to farm the land is, as reported here, starving and improverishing his own people and bringing the economy of Zimbabwe to a complete halt.
Whilst I'm not familiar with the details, I do have a vague idea of how the farmers got hold of that land in the first place, how they live a lifestyle that most Africans could only dream about, and how they treated their employees in the past. However, sending the farms to lie fallow has led the country to economic ruin and the possibility of famine, forcibly seizing property without compensation (not to mention encouraging general lawlessness) is guaranteed to deter the foriegn investment which is an excellent way to improve living standards, and rather than helping the great majority of Zimbabweans these properties have been transferred from a few rich white people to a few rich friends of Mugabe.
Now, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK led the push to have Zimbabwe suspended from the Commonwealth. Yes, this is a largely symbolic slap on the wrist, but even that was fought tooth and nail by some of the African members of the Commonwealth. And now South Africa and Nigeria (along with Australia, a three-nation panel set up to monitor the situation in Zimbabwe) want to let Zimbabwe back in again!
It has been suggested in a couple of articles that part of the real reason that they want Zimbabwe readmitted is that at least there's a sneaking admiration for Mugabe for, well, sticking it up whitey, even if it is, aside from being brutal, disasterous for his country.
What's your take on the Zimbabwe sitation, and the reactions from other African governments? Am I being horribly racist? If there's another explanation for what's going on, what is it? Is the situation misreported in the West?
Oh, and, by the way, I do realise that Zimbabwe is a fair way away from Nigeria, but it's a hell of a lot closer to you than it is to me (I'm Australian).
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
...governments should continue the crackdown on these perpertrators, and their foolish victims. Yes the victims; what ever happened to aiding and abbetting a crime?
Well, technically they didn't assist in an actual crime. The "crime" didn't actually exist.
Certainly the "victims" intended to assist a criminal activity, but in the end didn't commit an actual crime. I personally think that, given the circumstances, those who were scammed got what they deserved, and have no right to complain.
I also have to wonder about the statistics. If I were stupid enough to fall for a scam like this, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone about it. I'd just cut my losses, kick myself in the ass a few times, and try to forget that it ever happened. I suspect more people may have fallen for the scam (possibly with smaller amounts of money) that aren't reflected in these stats, for fear of being though a criminal for one (the fact that they did intend to assist in illegally obtaining money), and for being seen as an idiot...
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
Remember the good old days when you studied for standardized tests like SATs?
Maybe the world should incorporate a system where people are given a standardize test to determine their (lack of) common sense before letting them on the web.
Seriously, I have been wondering how these zebra $hit phocktards get their funding, now I know.
Are these scammers considered as con-artists? Considering these operations seem so effortless.....
Every time I see a a discussion of a scam like this I see messages suggesting that if people are too stupid to do fall for a scam like this then they somehow deserve it.
I cannot begin to express how angry this makes me. Who can honestly justify this morally? The justice system should exist to protect the stupid and the ignorant.
I see little difference between taking advantage of someone who is stupid and taking advantage of someone who is inexperienced. And I know that most people would be horrified if I suggested it was ok to take advantage of young children (for whatever purpose.)
What is it that makes people feel it is justified? I'd really like to know. Reply to this. Let me know. Because I don't see any reason why it is.
Sean
a) it's not "Your fucking stupid" it's "You're fucking stupid", assbreath.
b) I said "Close to 300 million" not "300 million", read what I wrote.
c) I'm not counting any illegal alien relatives as I'm not an American.
Why oh why to I bother replying to AC chickenshit losers?
Trolling is a art,
One of those keen 419-folk promised to fax me some financial documents today; I helpfully provided them with the fax number to the local police branch for international business. I told them to put them to the attention of "Rahanpesu", that's money launder in Finnish. :-)
For burning your money, KLF still stands out as the uncontested classic with the one million UK pounds.
Jouni
Jouni Mannonen | Game Designer, Consultant
Actually this is the funniest scamming of the scammers I have ever read. It also gives you a succinct lesson on how scamming works!
IMMEDIATE ATTENTION NEEDED : HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
FROM: GEORGE WALKER BUSH
DEAR SIR / MADAM,
I AM GEORGE WALKER BUSH, SON OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, AND CURRENTLY SERVING AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. THIS LETTER MIGHT SURPRISE YOU BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT MET NEITHER IN PERSON NOR BY CORRESPONDENCE. I CAME TO KNOW OF YOU IN MY SEARCH FOR A RELIABLE AND REPUTABLE PERSON TO HANDLE A VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS TRANSACTION, WHICH INVOLVES THE TRANSFER OF A HUGE SUM OF MONEY TO AN ACCOUNT REQUIRING MAXIMUM CONFIDENCE.
I AM WRITING YOU IN ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE PRIMARILY TO SEEK YOUR ASSISTANCE IN ACQUIRING OIL FUNDS THAT ARE PRESENTLY TRAPPED IN THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ. MY PARTNERS AND I SOLICIT YOUR ASSISTANCE IN COMPLETING A TRANSACTION BEGUN BY MY FATHER, WHO HAS LONG BEEN ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN THE EXTRACTION OF PETROLEUM IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND BRAVELY SERVED HIS COUNTRY AS DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED STATES CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.
IN THE DECADE OF THE NINETEEN-EIGHTIES, MY FATHER, THEN VICE- PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, SOUGHT TO WORK WITH THE GOOD OFFICES OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ TO REGAIN LOST OIL REVENUE SOURCES IN THE NEIGHBORING ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN. THIS UNSUCCESSFUL VENTURE WAS SOON FOLLOWED BY A FALLING OUT WITH HIS IRAQI PARTNER, WHO SOUGHT TO ACQUIRE ADDITIONAL OIL REVENUE SOURCES IN THE NEIGHBORING EMIRATE OF KUWAIT, A WHOLLY-OWNED U.S.-BRITISH SUBSIDIARY.
MY FATHER RE-SECURED THE PETROLEUM ASSETS OF KUWAIT IN 1991 AT A COST OF SIXTY-ONE BILLION U.S. DOLLARS ($61,000,000,000). OUT OF THAT COST, THIRTY-SIX BILLION DOLLARS ($36,000,000,000) WERE SUPPLIED BY HIS PARTNERS IN THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHER PERSIAN GULF MONARCHIES, AND SIXTEEN BILLION DOLLARS ($16,000,000,000) BY GERMAN AND JAPANESE PARTNERS. BUT MY FATHER'S FORMER IRAQI BUSINESS PARTNER REMAINED IN CONTROL OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ AND ITS PETROLEUM RESERVES.
MY FAMILY IS CALLING FOR YOUR URGENT ASSISTANCE IN FUNDING THE REMOVAL OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ AND ACQUIRING THE PETROLEUM ASSETS OF HIS COUNTRY, AS COMPENSATION FOR THE COSTS OF REMOVING HIM FROM POWER. UNFORTUNATELY, OUR PARTNERS FROM 1991 ARE NOT WILLING TO SHOULDER THE BURDEN OF THIS NEW VENTURE, WHICH IN ITS UPCOMING PHASE MAY COST THE SUM OF 100 BILLION TO 200 BILLION DOLLARS ($100,000,000,000 - $200,000,000,000), BOTH IN THE INITIAL ACQUISITION AND IN LONG-TERM MANAGEMENT.
WITHOUT THE FUNDS FROM OUR 1991 PARTNERS, WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ACQUIRE THE OIL REVENUE TRAPPED WITHIN IRAQ. THAT IS WHY MY FAMILY AND OUR COLLEAGUES ARE URGENTLY SEEKING YOUR GRACIOUS ASSISTANCE. OUR DISTINGUISHED COLLEAGUES IN THIS BUSINESS TRANSACTION INCLUDE THE SITTING VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, RICHARD CHENEY, WHO IS AN ORIGINAL PARTNER IN THE IRAQ VENTURE AND FORMER HEAD OF THE HALLIBURTON OIL COMPANY, AND CONDOLEEZA RICE, WHOSE PROFESSIONAL DEDICATION TO THE VENTURE WAS DEMONSTRATED IN THE NAMING OF A CHEVRON OIL TANKER AFTER HER.
I WOULD BESEECH YOU TO TRANSFER A SUM EQUALING TEN TO TWENTY- FIVE PERCENT (10-25 %) OF YOUR YEARLY INCOME TO OUR ACCOUNT TO AID IN THIS IMPORTANT VENTURE. THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL FUNCTION AS OUR TRUSTED INTERMEDIARY. I PROPOSE THAT YOU MAKE THIS TRANSFER BEFORE THE FIFTEENTH (15TH) OF THE MONTH OF APRIL.
I KNOW THAT A TRANSACTION OF THIS MAGNITUDE WOULD MAKE ANYONE APPREHENSIVE AND WORRIED. BUT I AM ASSURING YOU THAT ALL WILL BE WELL AT THE END OF THE DAY. A BOLD STEP TAKEN SHALL NOT BE REGRETTED, I ASSURE YOU. PLEASE DO BE INFORMED THAT THIS BUSINESS TRANSACTION IS 100% LEGAL. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO CO-OPERATE IN THIS TRANSACTION, PLEASE CONTACT OUR INTERMEDIARY REPRESENTATIVES TO FURTHER DISCUSS THE MATTER.
I PRAY THAT YOU UNDERSTAND OUR PLIGHT. MY FAMILY AND OUR COLLEAGUES WILL BE FOREVER GRATEFUL. PLEASE REPLY IN STRICT CONFIDENCE TO THE CONTACT NUMBERS BELOW.
SINCERELY WITH WARM REGARDS,
GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Switchboard: 202.456.1414
Comments: 202.456.1111
Fax: 202.456.2461
Email: president@whitehouse.gov
about five years ago i was walking down the street in downtown berkeley when a similar version of that scam started happening to me. . . after travelling for a few years thru mexico, central america, and western & eastern europe, i always get a bit sketched out by complete strangers who come up to me and don't ask for something outright (e.g. pen, piece of paper, spare change, cig, a light, directions). . .
.
.. i was never in any real danger as i was on a relatively busy street at dusk so i half wanted to sorta stick around to see when the scam was actually gonna kick in. . . after a while i figured that, to be safe, i oughtta just bail and then made my exit by telling the 2nd dude that he seemed to have things under control and left 'em. . .
.
.
.. then you check and make sure your credit cards and whatnot are there. . . *then* you check to see if you got all your cash back, which, of course, you don't, but by then all three of the perps have taken off. . .
.
in the berkeley scenario i forget the specifics but a dude came up and asked for help "donating" a huge wad of "cash" (probably paper with a bill on the outside) to a charity or something. . . i remember he had some sorta "official" letter of some sort stating he had to spend the money before he returned home and was absolutely adamant about not going to anything like a cop or bank. . . in fact, i think he also didn't want anything to do with white people or something too. . . anyway, after trying to help him out for a bit a 2nd dude came up and joined in on the conversation. .
when the wad of cash first made its appearance i remember alarm bells going off in my head and when the 2nd dude came up i remember thinking, "okay, this *has* to be a scam but how are they planning on taking my money?".
thing was that up until your post i couldn't figure out how the scam would've worked even if i believed 'em. . . only thing i could think of was that they'd lead me down some side street (or give me a ride in a car) and just rob me outright. .
you're right tho', getting scammed sucks, psychologically as well as monetarily. . . in europe i got taken by a scam (that's been tried on me several times since) where you're on an average sidewalk (i.e. not deserted but not totally bustling either) and a dude comes up with a map and asks for directions somewhere. . . basically what happens is you help him out (or not, if you don't know your way around) and then he gets all friendly and talkative asking where you're from and how long you're travelling and shit like that. .
well while you're distracted by talking to your new "friend", another dude in everyday street clothes walks up and says he's a cop (or secret service, control, immigration, military, whatever), flashes you some bogus ID, and demands to see your passport. . . then he demands that you empty out your pockets and acts all, y'know, gruff authoritarian cop like with the attitude that he could throw you in jail if he wanted to. . . sometimes a third dude then comes up and acts as an additional distraction and when the "cop" says you're clear and gives you back your shit in one big confused lump, the first thing you make sure you get back is your passport.
i was in prague when i fell for the scam but i've been approached like that in vienna, munich, and paris. . . to me, the scams where someone poses as a cop are always disconcerting 'cuz growing up in the US i've kinda got it ingrained into me that when someone says they're a cop and even shows you his ID, you don't just turn and walk away. . . i do it now if the cop was preceded by someone asking for directions but it still feels weird. . . it's a similar feeling to, say, the first few times you pee in your wetsuit while out surfing - it's so ingrained into your psyche to not pee in your clothes that it's hard to do at first. .
btw, in prague there *are* plainclothes "control" officers (complete with a wallet badge that looks like a toy) who check to see if you've got a ticket for the tram/bus/metro. . .
What are you talking about? Apache/IIS? Those are webservers. What the hell do they have to do with people responding to junk e-mail?
50% of the human race is below median intelligence, you nitwit :)
Yeah, yeah, and I have more than the average number of legs.
I have two legs, and the average is slightly less than that.
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
there you can find 309 different versions of the story - enjoy! :-)
No, I'm not bitter... part of that was our fault. But when enteprising young men from Nigeria (much like British "entrepreneurs" in the late 1800s and early 1900s) decide to fleece Britain or America, fooling the locals from those countries, I must admit it makes me chuckle just a little bit :-)
Really, pal?
Well, I use my email filtering service to send all email originating from Nigeria to the bitbucket.
Assuming ISP's start doing the same en masse, let's see what your "enterprising young men" are doing for the future infrastructure of your country.
Information wants to be beer.
It's a bit like throwing pennies into a fountain and then complaining that the water defrauded you!
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
While we may laugh at people getting "scammed", let's not remember that this money doesn't go in nice people's pockets.
This money mostly funds war and terrorism.
-- Leeeter than leet
Given the fact that this scam has been around for ages (at least since 1988, for one), and that the number of variations is very limited, I really wonder why this scam is still a success. Are people so gormless (a.k.a. dumb, foolish, dopey) that they still fall victim for it? Oh my god.
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
Feel free to call this troll. He's lives with his mom, and that's her voice in the answering machine message. Every time Mr. McDaniel decides to troll, another copy of his personal info will be posted immediately afterward.
Dear Bowie J. Poag
WTF do you think you are accomplishing by posting this guys personal info? Sure you may not like him, disagree with him or what not, but taking the time to track down his personal info, and posting it shows a level of compulsiveness that I think requires some professional help.
If you don't like the guy.. Fine, deal with it in the real world. Don't waste my time, and all the other productive slashdot posters time with this crap. You're showing the maturity of a 12 year old, no I take that back, I know 12 year olds that can behave more maturely than you.
.... I went to the Post Office to send an small parcel.
After paying and all the formalities I was told to leave it in a counter in full view of everybody (the office was full of people, the workers in the counter could not possibly be chacking that nobody steals the parcels all the time).
My gut feeling said this is silly, nevertheless 3 more people came left their own parcels and left.
Another example? Some big supermarkets here have an scanning system with which yourslef scan the priece of each product of your shooping, then in the cashier you hand over the scanner that is read by the machine that produces your bill. They randomly check people once in a blue moon, but the important part is tha they trust that people will mostly do the right thing.
In some busy train stations you can just take your newspaper and drop your money in collection boxes for that purpose.
Call it childish, but it feels immensily beeter to live in a society where you know you can trust people most of the time.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You can't prosecute anybody for the intent of commiting a crime, you can only do it for the commission of one.
At least in civilized countries it is like that.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... helps the effort how, wise boy?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Can you, oh source of wisdom, mention which law they broke? I did not know that falling for an scam was illegal in your place of residence (where is that, the Moon?).
Hell, I also wish I don't have to pay taxes, I dream about ways of hiding my money from the taxman, nevertheless I reluctantly pay my taxes every time. Should I go to jail for wishful thinking?
They may be griddy an unethical people, but that is not a crime until you brake the law.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And lynching while we are at it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
My wife got this at work today:It seems they've moved on to the Ivory Coast!
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
If people in Nigeria want to feel safe, they should not allow the scammers to operate out of Nigeria. Since international law is taking too long, vigilantism is on the increase.
I don't support vigilantism, but something has to give. I think this is what will continue to happen. The same thing will probably happen to spammers, too. I know milder stuff has already happened to spammers (like that one website where the guy broke in and grabbed all the naked pictures of the spammer lady he could, and posted them).
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I'm not saying any scammer can get his hands on it, but you certainly do not have to be a large , or public, company.. it requires relatively simple background checks, someone in the US with a clean tax record to sign up, and a couple grand as a security deposit.
I can assure you I'm not mistaken about this. I am not talking about the same system you use to make bill payments; I'm talking about a nationwide electronic funds transfer system, that allows direct withdrawl from accounts using only an account number & name.
I can assure you many, many small, private companies have access to this system.
Things don't work the way you think they do.
You are correct that they don't have access to your balance details.. but they DO have access to attempt to withdraw funds via EFT from your account. It's like processing a cheque, but electronic.
Joe average can't do this in five minutes, but with a few thousand dollars and some easy setup time, it's not hard to do.