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Microsoft Wants to Take on Google

blenderking writes "We do view Google more and more as a competitor. We believe that we can provide consumers with a better product and a better user experience. That's something that we're actively looking at doing,", says Bob Visse, director of marketing for Microsoft's MSN Internet services division, said. Full article at: Yahoo. This could have fit in with yesterday's April Fool's stories..."

115 of 767 comments (clear)

  1. No you got it all wrong.... by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 5, Funny

    Google isn't competition for Microsoft. Google is a quality product that actually works. Totally different than anything Microsoft puts out.

    1. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by Mmmrky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. Anything Microsoft puts out to compete is going to be so full of bloat that it will be a complete hastle to use. Why is Google so popular? Two words: simplicity and power.

      Google takes no time at all to load over a 56k modem, unlike most search engines, and makes searching incredibly simple.

      Microsoft has no chance.

    2. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by Clockwurk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google is successful because it yields accurate and pertinant results, not because it loads fast on 56K. Google also is successful because it doesn't have pay-for-placement results. Google has some ads (unobtrusive at that), but if MS was running a search engine, they can afford to have no paid links, and no annoying ads.

    3. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by thumperward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you meant not just because it loads fast on a 56K. The mere thought of using another search engine while on dial-up chills my blood. I'd wager that a fair few Googlers out there use it primarily because it takes zero seconds to finish loading.

      - Chris

    4. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google also is successful because it doesn't have pay-for-placement results.

      Um, actually we spend thousands per month with Google's pay per click sponsored placement. Not as much as we spend on Overture's, but still a lot. They have had this program for about 6 months now. It is different than Overture's in that it combines your 'top bid' along with what it says is relevence, but believe me, its all in what you pay.

      That said, it is a great system, cost effective, and generates high quality leads that 3 times more likely to covert than AOL or Lycos. MSN comes second, then Yahoo. Aol has always sucked for conversion (buys during the same browsing session that they clicked on the ad) in the 3 years that I have tracked it. They do generate a lot of traffic, its just traffic that doesn't buy anything.

      So yea, Google wants to make money, too. Good for them.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    5. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by silicon_synapse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft is certainly capable of putting out a supperior product, but it wouldn't fit their bottom line. Their whole business model is different. They do write some good software though. They've made some (read: a lot of) trash and are the epitome of evil corporations, but they can and do sometimes write excellent software.

    6. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by silicon_synapse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also remember people respect companies that show them some respect. More than once I've taken my business to a sponsored ad on Google because they are a company I want to support.

    7. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by inaeldi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Take Media Player 6.4. It's one of the only Microsoft programs that I really like. It's simple, compact, efficient, and *gasp* not bloated!

    8. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by shamilton · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's why they phased it out!

      Fortunately it's still available in 2k and XP as "mplayer2." Far superior to the uber-bloated WMP of today.

      --
      "[A] high IQ is like a Jeep; you will still get stuck, just farther from help!" --Just d' FAQs, c.g.a
    9. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by geordie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If everyone casts their mind back just a few years, there was this browser called 'Netscape' which had the browser market pretty much tied up. Then a company called Microsoft came along and released a buggy, bloated piece of code called 'Internet Explorer'. A chorus of 'they'll never beat Netscape' rang out around the world.

      Fast forward to today and that buggy, bloated piece of software called 'Internet Explorer' is still here, only now it commands over 90% of the browser market.

      Or for those with longer memories, there once was these two programs called 'WordStar' and 'Wordperfect'..........

    10. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      IE has never been "bloated" compared to equivalent versions of Netscape. Nor particularly "buggy" for that matter.

      There's a reason IE was well on the way to displacing Netscape long before it was "integrated" into Windows...

    11. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft doesn't make products or services better...

      Remember this little thing called Hotmail?
      Remember when there were no pop up ads? No terms of service changes that require you to check your options 3 times daily to ensure you haven't automatically been requested to share your personal info, and where it was a reliable service?

    12. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by Rubyflame · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If that were true, you might have a point, but Google takes about 0.2 seconds to return results. Even if MSN can manage 0.01, you'd never notice the difference. But you would notice all the huge, long-loading images they're bound to have on the front page.

      --

      All it takes is nukes and nerves.
    13. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by breon.halling · · Score: 5, Informative

      You might want to check out Media Player Classic (click on the MPC link) -- it's ol' Media Player, but with a whole whack of features such as DVD playback and a bunch of new supported file formats, including Ogg (audio/video), RealMedia & QuickTime.

      Highly recommended. And no, I don't work them. I'm just a satisifed user! ;)

      --
      "Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
    14. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by dgmartin98 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You must mean 1997. Dogpile in 1987 was likely only of the stinking variety.

      --
      FPGA, Wireless, ASIC, Verilog, VHDL, HW, 10yr exp, Team Lead, Ottawa (More? Email above. slashdotusername=dgmartin98 )
    15. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by ojQj · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Remember this little thing called Hotmail?
      Remember when there were no pop up ads? No terms of service changes that require you to check your options 3 times daily to ensure you haven't automatically been requested to share your personal info, and where it was a reliable service?

      Well I don't like MS much, but this certainly isn't Microsoft's fault alone. You could have said the same thing about numerous other free on-line mail services a few years ago. But most or all of them are doing various pop-up/whatever advertising schemes these days too. The business climate changed, and these services had to start making a profit. And non-paying customers only have limited economic power to change things. Take Yahoo as a case in point.

    16. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by Barraketh · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interestingly enough, as bloated as WMP is supposed to be, it still takes up far less memory than mplayer2. I've just tested this out, and WMP took up only 8,800 K of memory as compared to mplayer2 which took 35,500 when playing a 700mb divx movie. This is physical memory usage - the CPU and VM usage is roughly the same for both.

    17. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by TopShelf · · Score: 2, Funny

      No wonder it was such a stinker to search through...

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    18. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Insightful


      What Pharmboy is describing it not "pay-for-placement results". The ads he's buying don't appear in the search results listings. They appear off to the side or in a space below the masthead, and in either case they're clearly marked as 'Sponsored Links.'

      In other words, they are not search results. They're just ads.

      At the same time, I'm disappointed that he, and anyone involved in new media advertising, still looks at conversions as an indicator of how effective an ad is. Few people ever click-through on an ad they see and make an immediate purchase. Expectations for web ads ought to be no greater than any other kind of print or broadcast ad; it's not an opportunity to make a quick sale, just an opportunity to spread the word about what you're selling. Impressions are what matter.

    19. Re:No you got it all wrong.... by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At the same time, I'm disappointed that he, and anyone involved in new media advertising, still looks at conversions as an indicator of how effective an ad is. Few people ever click-through on an ad they see and make an immediate purchase. Expectations for web ads ought to be no greater than any other kind of print or broadcast ad; it's not an opportunity to make a quick sale, just an opportunity to spread the word about what you're selling. Impressions are what matter.

      Conversion is only one consideration. We get only 10% or less of our sales from direct conversion. Its a guide. I can compare one place to another using conversion, but it also has to be tempered with:

      1) demographics of the engine
      2) the particular ad (if different on the sites)
      3) type of ad (banner, word ad, horz. banner)
      4) particular keyword

      So, since AOL gets me about the same number of HITS as MSN, but MSN converts about 12% and AOL converts about 0%, I can figure that I get more "tire kickers" from AOL and more serious buyers from MSN. I still sell stuff from the AOL ads, but it takes 10x the ads to sell one unit on AOL, vs MSN. This means I am willing to pay 10x on MSN, because my net result (selling one unit) has the same net cost.

      Whether someone converts instantly depends on many things: the items costs, the demo's of the product (age/race/gender), the complexity of the item (stand alone or other item dependant like a scanner) and whether the item is durable (made to last 5+ years) or disposable (5 years). But on the same item, same demos, etc. you CAN compare coversion rates and get a ROUGH idea of how effective a search engine is at reaching YOUR demos. Click through rate, well thats a different coversation........

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  2. 2 Shots of Vapor, One Shot of ... by Ken@WearableTech · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If MSN want's a better search engine then Google then just make it and let the users judge it. Viewing Google as a competitor from the consumer viewpoint is a mistake. Google is a streamlined efficient search engine while MSN is a hodgepodge of Internet services for the masses.

    Maybe Microsoft is disappointed that google will not have an IPO anytime soon, reducing possibility to easily buy Google and plug it into MSN.

    If Microsoft wants to ensure their long term future they need to improve the server OS's and innovate in client software, not worry about being everything to everyone.

    1. Re:2 Shots of Vapor, One Shot of ... by critter_hunter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But they don't need a better search engine to beat Google. They just need to neatly integrate their SE into Windows XP2 or whatever, really push it on sites such as Hotmail and MSN and other high-visibility sites, things like that. They are Microsoft, they don't need to have the better product to beat the competition.

      In fact, I think their history shows that it is in fact the other way around - MS managed to get the upper hand many times with an inferior product.

      Of course, it's Google. It's got both quality and enormous brand recognition - not an easy target, not even for Microsoft

      --
      Karma: Could be worse (could be raining)
    2. Re:2 Shots of Vapor, One Shot of ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Name a couple of instances? IE? I hardly think Netscape was the superior product. Microsoft Office? Pardon, but Word Perfect is a heaping pile compared to Office. Maybe you're referring to Windows in general. Was OS/2 really that good? I don't think so, but you may disagree. MS-DOS, then? I suppose DR-DOS was the better of the two.

      What exactly do you mean when you say that Microsoft has succeeded, despite producing poor products? Please cite some examples that reinforce your point. If you say Linux or MacOS, you lose.

    3. Re:2 Shots of Vapor, One Shot of ... by deadsaijinx* · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, they really DO need to offer a better product. Other than to check your junkmail once a week, why do you go to hotmail or MSN or any of their other sites. Integrate it into Winders Longhorn (or XP2, whatever)? People will still turn to google first. Google is know, google is trusted, google is reliable, and google is fast.

      To beat google, you'll need something nice. REALLY nice. .... I mean REEEEEAAALLLLYYY NICE. Maybe if they gave me a couple hundred dollars for time lost using their worthless search, I'd start to use it. 0_o

      --
      YOU SUCK BALLS!
    4. Re:2 Shots of Vapor, One Shot of ... by chabotc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They just need to neatly integrate their SE into Windows XP2 or whatever

      I would gues the whatever is longhorn.. It's main conceptual improvement being touted is the 'filesystem is a (searchable) database'. How easy would it be to extend your local search to 'Search the web for [term]'. If they would go that route ,and make it usefull enough, i'm sure most current-day search engines would die in a few years unless they find new niche-markets

  3. I'm sorry... by btlzu2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...but can they leave ANYTHING alone? What's next? I won't be surprised if they branch out into other markets...Oh, GM is selling a lot of cars, we view them as a competitor. Sheesh.

    --
    Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead.
    1. Re:I'm sorry... by bughunter · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is what MS refers to as "innovation." It's not creating new products, and therefore new markets. It's identifying an existing market and taking it over. Kinda like when MacDonalds sees a successful mom and pop burger joint, and then decides to open a new franchise right across the street.

      That just happened in my neighborhood. The mom and pop joint has far better burgers, and real milkshakes, but when the zombie masses see the golden arches they act as if their decision has been made for them and go for the Big Macs.

      Result: Mom and Pop are now losing money and will soon close their burger joint, one that's been there for almost 30 years. So Sad.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    2. Re:I'm sorry... by pmineiro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The mom and pop joint has far better burgers, and real milkshakes, but when the zombie masses see the golden arches they act as if their decision has been made for them and go for the Big Macs.

      IMHO, while this is somewhat saddening, this is actually rational behavior on the part of the "zombies". The quality of McD's product is fairly constant, and although not superlative, has low associated risk. The mom and pop store involves risk, in this case it's better, but you don't know that in advance, and it can take alot of time trying out all the little places to find better stuff.

      aka sharpe's ratio.

      -- p

      p.z. i hope m$ tries to take on google; as long as there is no unfair bundling with the OS, competition will only spur more innovation by both parties.

    3. Re:I'm sorry... by cybercuzco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This happened near me too,, Mcdonalds actually tried to put up their "golden arches" so that it would block their competitors sign. Mcdonalds got sued and actually settled with the mom and pop, which is still in buisness, 5 years later.

      --

    4. Re:I'm sorry... by istartedi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This reminds me of the time we stopped in Jarretsville, MD. Just one piece of advice: don't. Ditto for Sperryville, VA (unless you want to go to what looked like a really fancy sit-down, which I didn't check out). The Sperryville experience actually involved me pulling away from the store, taking a bite of the sandwhich, and spitting it out because the meat tasted spoiled. That almost never happens at nationwide chains, and if it does, and you take it back, you'll get a quality replacement. I knew it was pointless to turn around, because they had pulled this spoiled meat from a big thing. That was their standard of quality. Then there was the raw pork barbecue in South Florida. Don't get me started on that.

      Some general advice about mom-n-pops: Tables with square bent metal and vinyl covered chairs are a bad sign. If you've traveled the east coast of the US, you know the kind of chairs I'm talking about. I think whenever a nasty restaurant closes down, the next nasty restaurant picks these chairs up at the close-out.

      Next, make sure the food preparation area is either totally obscured, or totally out in the open. My theory on this? If it's totally out in the open, they are proud of their process. If it's totally closed, the place is sufficiently upscale to separate the kitchen from the dining experience. At places where the food preparation is "semi-obscured" it means that they couldn't afford ambience, and they aren't proud of what they're doing.

      Next, know your region. I don't think I've ever had bad bar-b-que in Texas. It's probably a capital offense to serve bad bbq there. If you walk into a Salvadoran restaurant, and see Salvadorans eating there, you are probably OK. Ditto for any other ethnic restaurant. Avoid places on "US" or state highways where there is little or no competition. Note, on the interstate system, competition may not exist at an exit, but if it exists 5 miles down the road you are probably OK.

      Finally, learn from bad experiences and develop your "sense" of what's going to be good. Use your nose. Ask for a menu, and don't be afraid to turn around if you can't check the place out. Look at the people sitting there. Are they clean people? Dirty restaurants tend to attract dirty people.

      Bottom line? When you're on the road and you're hungry, the safe mediocrity of McDonalds can be unbeatable.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  4. This could be not bad. by mrseigen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It'll be interesting to see if Google is really evil enough to beat Microsoft. Oh, and Microsoft's search engine really sucks (at least the few times I've used it), so it'll be good to see a version that doesn't.

    1. Re:This could be not bad. by Pyrosophy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you really need to be evil in order to destroy evil? Is open source evil enough to beat MS?

      You obviously haven't been taking your propaganda pills lately.

      Yeah, yeah, the Spaceballs quotation, but I prefer MLK:

      "Darkness cannot put out darkness. Only light can do that."

  5. Next up: Microsoft Battles God by zhrike · · Score: 2, Funny

    "We see life as a less-than utopian user-experience. We aim to remove all question, doubt, pain, suffering, and freedom of choice from our prosepctive devotees. We feel that our God project, Diety 1.0, will present a truly enhanced
    life for all, the benefits of which shall be obvious. Our product will overcome."

  6. uh oh by hhknighter · · Score: 2, Funny

    "We believe that we can provide consumers with a better product and a better user experience"

    that means Microsoft will be making plans to buy google.

    other than that, no, they really can't

  7. Quick Question by omnipotens · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is there ANY record of a microsoft server project being used on this large a scale? I know that hotmail is now being served with MS software, but I also know that the MS server products that are being used to run it aren't doing half the job that BSD did. So, basically, is there anyone out there who can tell me whehter this is possible without a special OS, et cetera set up to do this job? (it's a pretty bold claim, I'm interested in it in a could this really happen sort of way.)

    1. Re:Quick Question by bmajik · · Score: 4, Interesting
      but I also know that the MS server products that are being used to run it aren't doing half the job that BSD did

      how do you know that ?

      is there some document that says so ? did some "reputable source" tell you ? are you just sure that BSD was doing such a better job ?

      i've talked to the people involved at hotmail (and now at MS) about exactly how the transistion went. i have a good idea (from what internal documents i've read and conversations i've had) at what the old picture was and what the new picture was. i know a little bit about some of the problems and some of the successes, from essentially 1st hand sources

      do you have this info ? care to share it with us all to justify your claim ?

      i'll tell you what i can, and it may surprise you. the majority of freebsd front-door boxes were converted to win2k. the freebsd that was in use was essentially fully custom at that point, and not much like the stock freebsd (this would be the "special os" you mention). the w2k replacements are stock (perhaps settings tweaked) win2k servers, nothing "magic" about them. in general, the w2k boxes are outperforming the freebsd's they replaced by a statistically significant margin. not to mention other benefits (beleive it or not - reliability was one of them). note that this is on the same hardware - freebsd was replaced with w2k

      some people will say "netcraft still says its freebsd!" and they're partially correct. there are still some freebsd boxes that remain at hotmail last time i talked to anybody about it. additionally, the Back end mailstore machines were neither windows or freebsd - they were giant sun boxes that were already purchased and too expensive to simply throw away only on the gorunds of doing it all "the windows way"... although i understand that converting them is now underway or coming soon..

      initally, i didn't beleive it either when i read the documents. turns out the hotmail conversion really shaped a lot of w2k because they started working on it early. w2k is partially what it is today because it had to exceed freebsd enough to make the conversion not only possible, but worthwhile.

      you should keep a few things in mind when making blanket statements about what windows can and cant do

      • microsoft.com runs windows. it's a website that gets more traffic than most. it stands up
      • microsoft, as a company and as a network entity, gets hit with more attacks than just about any other corporate or network presence. generally, it holds up
      • sql servers running on windows are regularly trading tpc/c 1st place scores with other machines - we're now in the realm of doing all of the NYSE transactions for a YEAR in a matter of a day or so
      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  8. a little too late by v_1_r_u_5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google is already so powerful and so popular that it's already a verb in most people's vocabulary. It is unlikely that Microsoft would be able to overcome this popularity so late in the game, especially since Google is totally platform independent.

    1. Re:a little too late by dperkins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is hilarious. Lemme think of some possible companies that have had a "lock" on their respective market and have fallen to Microsoft... 1. Netscape 2. Word Perfect 3. Novell The list goes on...

      --
      My sig hates me. That's ok, I never cared for it much anyway.
    2. Re:a little too late by Alsee · · Score: 2, Funny

      Google is totally platform independent.

      Yeah, that's exactly what Microsoft's "better product and a better user experience" is going to "fix".

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  9. Perhaps too obvious, but by HisMother · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The great thing about Google is that by and large, they're not selling anything except search technology. They've got ads, but they're always clearly marked as such, and they're easy to ignore. As a result, when you search for something on Google, barring the odd restriction on Nazi paraphernalia and Scientology, you feel that you're getting the straight dope. For technical information, this is certainly true.

    In contrast, Microsoft is selling a world view -- theirs. I can't even imagine searching for gcc, or Java, or "Linus Torvalds" on Microogle and expecting to get useful information. You don't ask a plumber if your pipes need fixing.

    --
    Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
    1. Re:Perhaps too obvious, but by Lendrick · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Funny you should mention that. I searched for "Linux" at search.msn.com just for kicks, and the first three results went like this:


      # Amazon.com
      Buy Linux software at the Amazon.com software store.

      # Introducing Linux (at tech.msn.com)
      Find the latest news and information on this operating system.

      # Alternatives to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP (at microsoft.com)
      Learn about the Microsoft alternatives and how to move to them from open source products.


      The three after it are all sponsor links. They're marked as such, but not clearly. After that, it continues with some more links, which are of somewhat better quality. In contrast, Google's top three results are linux.org, linux.com, and redhat.com.

      Until MS separates out the advertising a bit better and stops skewing the top links quite so much to suit its own opinion, people aren't going to use their search site. Oh, and they need to lose the advertising image and simplify their page.

    2. Re:Perhaps too obvious, but by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're not clearly marked as sponsor links? Gee, let's take a look. The first three are marked as "featured sites" by the text, "FEATURED SITES - ABOUT". The next 3 hits are labeled, "SPONSORED SITES - ABOUT" in exactly the same font. Furthermore, the "sponsored sites" which you are complaining about are not numbered and instead marked by a bullet, further setting them apart.

  10. Definition of better by deepchasm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Visse said the company was making some significant investments in developing a better search engine. But the company has not offered specific plans.

    From past experience Microsoft's idea of better is more packed with features. I use Google because it is fast, efficient, and has unobtrusive advertising. Can you honestly see Microsoft competing on those terms?

    1. Re:Definition of better by John+Whitley · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I use Google because it is fast, efficient, and has unobtrusive advertising.

      I'll add something to that -- Google is one of the very few sites that receives ad clicks from me! There are (at least) two big mistakes that so many web ads are prone to: 1) no personal relevance to the viewer and 2) they're damned annoying. Either of these is a deal-breaker for me.

      Google manages to avoid the first failing by tying ads to the search topic. Thus if you're doing product research via Google, you're likely to encounter some relevant advertiser links.

      Similarly, Google maintains control over the ad format. This dodges the second failing by ensuring that the ads are consistent with the unclutered nature of the site, are visually inoffensive, and are distinct from the search content. (Hmm... that seems oddly similar to sponsored placements on NPR stations. Go fig.)
  11. if microsoft buys google... by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...then it'll finally own the only decent way to navigate microsoft's own website

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
  12. Dies... by 1stflight · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think I just died of laughter.... what are they going to run their search engine on? MSSQL ?!!!!

  13. I'll give you user experience. by jspoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't want a ****ing 'user experience' out of my search engine. I want a page that loads fast and gives me the answers I'm looking for.

  14. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't know, let's seach Google to find out.

  15. Re:Simple question by Ken@WearableTech · · Score: 4, Funny

    Simple question: How could you beat Google?

    If I knew I'd be rich.

  16. Capitalism at it's best by abcxyz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that historically, "trying to build the better mouse trap", has produced numbers of new and innovative products. It's very important to the future of technology that other companies evaluate the status quo and try to improve on it. If Microsoft or any other company can develop a search engine that better's Google approach, then that's great and we'll all use it.

  17. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In Microsoft's case it's simple: If you can't beat them - buy them.

    I think this is a precursor to a hostile takeover sometime in the future. Buy Google, integrate it into MSN and assign a low rating to anything that has the word Linux in it.

  18. Fine... Let 'em try! by KC7GR · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If Steve "Uncle Fester" Balmy thinks he can produce a better product than Google, then I personally invite him to stick his neck out and do it!

    However, he should bear in mind that whatever MS creates:

    (1) Will have to have a noticeable lack of any sort of banner ads or popups.

    (2) Will have to have a clean, simple, easy-to-use interface that's compatible with ANY BROWSER, from the text-based Lynx on up to the latest version of Opera, Netscape, or IE.

    (3) Will have to be fully compatible with text-based screen readers, such as those used by vision-impaired folks.

    (4) Will actually have to work as well as, or better than, Google if MS wants it to have a ghost of a chance.

    Right now, Google completely fulfills requirements 1-3. I will be watching with great amusement as Uncle Steve and his Cronies try to add "value" to the search engine "experience," and most likely fall flat on their collective arses doing it.

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

    1. Re:Fine... Let 'em try! by bughunter · · Score: 2, Funny
      (4) Will actually have to work as well as, or better than, Google

      Umm... I think that Google fulfills number four, too. Umm, yea.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
  19. Good Thing by BSDevil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In many ways, I see this as a good thing. If MS wants to build a better search engine with a "better product and a better user experience", more power to them. They can't do anything to make me stop using Google, so why should I be worried if they see Google as a competitor?

    Should MS, by some miracle, come up with a better search engine and a better interface, then I'll use it because it's the best for me. If they come up with a new feature that I like, I'll use it. I don't really care who's engine it is, so long as it finds the results I'm looking for. If it sucks (as I suspect it will), then that's a few million dollars less for Bill and Steve. Either way, we the users win.

    Competition at work: may the best search engine win.

    --
    Cue The Sun...
  20. this one kind of surprised me.. by bmajik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    i use google exclusively for my searching. i use google to search microsoft sites. I use google to help me search MSDN. The people that write MSDN work in the same building as I do.

    I think google is the stuff and i rarely see a need to use anything else. it is -Exactly- the interface that i want and it is lightning fast with no distractions.

    perhaps there is some breakthough in searching/indexing technology that MS thinks they can make. I'd buy that - there are lots of bright people here that really understand interesting problems with other approaches and can turn that understanding into solid products.

    or perhaps someone decided google isn't "friendly" enough (i.e. not filled with crap, ads, marketing tie-ins, etc etc) and needs to be cluttered up and "popularized". maybe someone simply wants MS to have the #1 search and thats driving the whole story..

    My worry is that whatever comes out of this, it will end up being 800kb of dhtml and popups and shitty ads. I don't think anything will ever replace google for what the majority of people use it for unless it is as simple and stripped down as google is, interface wise. i mean, i have a vested financial interest in MS products doing well but i still find myself using what i feel is the right tool for the job which fits my usage habits best, and for basically all searching tasks thats google.

    --
    My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  21. google.com better than support.microsoft.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I want to know why the hell I have a better chance of finding the microsoft support document I need with google then I do searching directly from support.microsoft.com...

  22. PC Magazine Quote by Likes+Microsoft · · Score: 3, Informative

    An article month's PC Magazine mentioned this. The author shuddered at what a Microsoft Google would look like, perhaps something similar to the "teenage clutter" of MSN.

    --
    -- Who am I? How did I get here? My God, what have I done?!
  23. meh. by nekura · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I found this less funny than Slashdot's attempt at an April's Fools prank. But required Microsoft bashing aside (for the record: no, I'm not a Linux zealot or anything, it was strictly for humor purposes), I say good luck to Microsoft. Not because I think that they'll fail or anything, but because if the competition's good enough, it'll hopefully inspire Google to come up with even more of their creative tools that I enjoy playing with so much.

    --

    "Programming is like sex - one mistake and you'll have to support it for the rest of your life."
  24. I'll bet Google is taking it really seriously by Introspective · · Score: 4, Funny

    A Google representative could not be immediately reached for comment.

    The rep was too busy cleaning up the coffee that he'd laughed out of his nose.

  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Mooglesoft Search: linux "open source" by Nathdot · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did you mean: Windows XP

    Your search - linux "open source" - did not match any documents.
    No pages were found containing "linux", "open source".

    Suggestions:

    - Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    - Try different keywords.
    - Try more general keywords.

    Also, you can try Mooglesoft Answers for expert help with your search.

  27. Google: The Next Netscape by md17 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone is missing the point here... Let's assume that Micro$oft could actually create a search engine 70% as good as Google. Then they bundle it into their OS and IE. Then market the crap out of it. Do you really think that the normal Windows user will continue to use Google? This is the whole problem with those bastards controlling the desktop OS which 90% of the world uses. They really can do this kind of stuff and get away with it. Remember Netscape, WordPerfect, etc. Be afraid. Be very afraid. And since I am in a good mood I will give a few suggestions for helping to change this situation:
    1) Write a windows worm / virus
    2) Contribute to the linux kernel, kde, gnome, etc.
    3) Teach your friends and family how to actually use Linux.

    1. Re:Google: The Next Netscape by m0rph3us0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Netscape, remember how much 4.X sucked? That is when Netscape lost their market share. I loved Netscape until version 4, I kept with them til about 4.5 when I realized they weren't fixing the crashes. Then I moved to IE4, which sucked a little less, and by version 5 IE was actually usable. Now, I use mozilla because it is a better product. The problem is Netscape let their users down for 4.x, after that they were competiting against an MS held market which is an uphill battle. Products can hold their own against MS as long as that company is willing to consistantly provide a good product, one bad version and you are mince meat aginst MS that is the way MS works. If Linux 2.6 ends up being a horrible buggy piece of software expect MS to make big gains against it, if it is solid expect Linux to maintain and increase market share.

    2. Re:Google: The Next Netscape by hpavc · · Score: 4, Funny

      I have faith that the MSN butterfly can do it ... he is so smart, strong and brave ... he can do anything.

      --
      members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
    3. Re:Google: The Next Netscape by FallLine · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Two points.

      A) This is why we have patents. Google has novel technology and they have (hopefully strong) patents on it. It's not very likely that MS will find a method that is as good without walking into a lawsuit. Netscape had no strong IP--they bet on their market penetration and headstart.

      B) There's not much MS can do to google short of blatantly re-jiggering IE to stop functioning with google (and google's inevitable responses). Unlike the situation with Netscape, google does not have to contend with network effects. They don't have to install anything on the users machine and they don't have much exposure to MS' API antics. There's not much that MS can "add" over and above what Google does. MS can try to embed their own search engine interface into IE (I think they already do by default)--but it's a nominal advantage and something that can easily be matched by 3rd party tools.

      I can't stand MS, but fortunately Google is one of the few companies that MS can't kill with their traditional techniques. Their best option would be to try to acquire it, but given Google's popularity and MS's lack of leverage on them, they'd take a huge hit (mucho dinero) to do so. That and I don't think Google really threatens MS so there'd be little incentive for them to do so.

  28. Why? by sgage · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why is Google perceived by MS to be a competitor? Why does MS feel compelled to own everything? Why not admit that Google is excellent, that there's already lots of competition in the search engine niche, and get on with life?

    I try and try not to hate MS (I hate hating, and personally find it exhausting :-), but they regularly come up with stuff like this, and it just disgusts me. They're like evil monkeys. Just can't stop fidgeting, fidgeting, fidgeting.

  29. Unbelievable by smartin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft really can't tolerate anyone else anywhere near the industry. The sad part is that by having the evil empire even express interest in putting Google out of business, they will probably screw Googles chance at a decent IPO.

    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
  30. Why? For Money by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't know what your background is [Computer Science degrees for me] BUT it just seems like good business sense to constantly diversify. Microsoft sees a market that Google is currently dominating, but by no means invented, and wants a piece of it. Furthermore, this is a market they can more easily get their paws into than, say, apple juice manufacturing, because of their name brand recognition within the computer industry and their current control over the average user's browser selection. Microsoft is a company that has had some innovation but, more importantly for their stockholders, has made some really shrewd and often illegal business moves. These kind of moves are what a good company does to build their capital and continue to thrive.

    --
    I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
    1. Re:Why? For Money by Rutulian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about just building a single or a handful of good products, supporting them, and being the best in the business at what you do? People will buy quality. As long as you make a good product, customers will stay with it. In many cases, if you make a mediocre product people will still stay with it. Why? It is simply too much trouble to change without a compelling reason.

      This is one reason why SGI has lasted as long as it has. Same with Apple. Apple can't compete in price (and some say with speed), but they can compete with quality. Apple certainly isn't a struggling business.

      The problem is companies continually want more. They want to capture more market and can't be satisfied with what they've got. It's not about making a living, it's about being the richest kid in town. That is why companies "diversify." Make one good product, have a loyal customer base, and a good income? Or make hundreds of lousy products, use marketing tactics and monopoly power to force people to use those products, and have a huge income (for a while)? Unfortunately, if you have shareholders, the latter choice inevitably wins.

  31. Another point. by terradyn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    given that they use google for their own searches (www.google.com/microsoft), doesn't that just show that they believe google's search algorithm is better than their own? I assume google has this patented so what makes microsoft think they can make a better search engine without stealing ideas? Or are they thinking of making some sort of AI sentient search engine that can tell us what we are looking for? Seriously though, I can't see any reason for pursuing this course of action unless they come up with some truly revolutionary search algorithm.

  32. Crashed before they get off the ground by Bitmanhome · · Score: 5, Insightful
    We believe that we can provide consumers with a better product and a better user experience.
    Google doesn't provide a "user experience", it provides a search engine, and nothing more. You can't beat Google if you fiddle with that formula.
    --
    Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
    1. Re:Crashed before they get off the ground by cbv · · Score: 2, Funny
      Google doesn't provide a "user experience"

      You are right, Google doesn't - but maybe, he was referring to the "I'm feeling lucky" button, which, in case of M$' search engine will crash your machine 3 times out of 5?
      Just a thought...

  33. Technical issues aside... by eMartin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "We believe that we can provide consumers with a better product and a better user experience."

    I'd imagine that means having links to hotmail, articles on other MSN-related sites, advertisements, having to log in (and out for those using public computers), etc.

    I seriously don't understand how anyone can actually think that these things provide a "better experience" for a search system than a box for entering search terms and a button to start the search, all resulting in a simple list of relevant results. How is this better than this?

    Even as a "portal" (more so than before), Google still does a better job than the others.

    1. Re:Technical issues aside... by lucifer_666 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "We believe that we can provide consumers with a better product and a better user experience."

      But Google doesn't provide a "product" to consumers. Doing a search is recieving a "service," but it's not buying a product. Consumers don't pay a cent! Google makes money and does well because it only provides "product," in the form of advertising, to, well, advertisers.

      This comment indicates to me that Microsoft's long term plan is to provide a search as a product, that is, you have to pay for it. So obviously Google's got to go.

      "Don't go to the local library to borrow a book... come to Microsofts Wunder-Library - you get so much more for your money!"

  34. Does Linux have to do with this? by Steven+Blanchley · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Google is very much in the mainstream, so that the 'average user' turns to it for daily use, and it runs GNU/Linux. Do you suppose that might have something to do with it?

    It seems to me that it would serve Microsoft quite well if the leading search engine ran Microsoft software, not something they have been denouncing as a toy or communism or whatever.

    I'm not thinking about personal users, but businesses. The pointy-hairedest of managers knows how well Google works and has probably been hearing at least a little about how Microsoft products aren't quite the most secure or trustworthy. Maybe he'll think, 'If it works for Google, it should work here,' recommend using Linux in the company, and cost Microsoft some potential money.

    Anyone agree this might be a motivating factor in the announcement, or am I just reading too far into this?

  35. Yes Re:Definition of better by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From past experience Microsoft's idea of better is more packed with features. I use Google because it is fast, efficient, and has unobtrusive advertising. Can you honestly see Microsoft competing on those terms?

    Actually, I can. Microsoft are quite comfortable with simply buying a market. They just pour money onto it, embrace and extend it, FUD it; and ship it with their OS, and then finally they own it (usually). Check out IE. Other browsers are a tiny percentage of the market. Check out Microsoft Word for another example. Both are decent products. Microsoft can do decent if they really have to. Alas.

    That's what they normally do. And it usually works. The only question in my mind is whether Microsoft really can capture this market. The incumbent is good, widespread and it's unclear whether Microsoft's strength on the desktop even, can allow them to capture it. Indeed, it's not even clear whether it's worth them trying- nobody knows how much money Google makes on it; or how much money Microsoft could make.

    Anyway, back to the original question: can Microsoft do the right thing enough to get the market? Yes, and worse still, there's no guarantee that they would continue to do the right thing.

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  36. google advertising by SLASHAttitude · · Score: 2

    Here is the funny thing about google adds. I read those, I sometimes click them, I have even bought stuff from them. This is far difrent then any other add on the internet. So it seems like not only do they get searches right they also have advertising right. If more people would fallow there path and not the microsoft path the world would be a better place.

  37. Re:A Report that Microsoft will buy Google by Bake · · Score: 3, Funny

    Have you Googled for it?

  38. Where you been? by siskbc · · Score: 3, Informative
    If Microsoft wants to ensure their long term future they need to improve the server OS's and innovate in client software, not worry about being everything to everyone.

    Viewing Google as a competitor from the consumer viewpoint is a mistake.

    Except M$ got where it is by not caring about security, ripping off others' innovations then killing their company, dabbling in all markets, and only viewing competitors from the consumer viewpoint.

    Seriously, when has quality even been part of M$'s strategy (and strange as this may sound, I don't mean that as a flame). If you have an ineffective DOJ, why not just keep utilizing your marketing and monopolistic strength to kill off competitors? Why is there any need to improve?

    And sadly, this extends to a large degree to enterprise software as well. How smart is the typical CIO? Even more important, how much does the CEO know about software? Not much, which is why MS software is the safe choice for CIO's. Like the saying goes, buying MS doesn't get people fired (not *quite* true, but you get the idea).

    A combination of FUD, astroturfing, buying shill journalists, buying out companies, market-killing monopoly extending has always been a good way for MS to win. Why would they stop now?

    Quite frankly, I wouldn't do anything different from how they're doing it, except for their deranged obsession with piracy. If they ever figure out that widespread piracy does for them what they couldn't even LEGALLY DO (ie, dumping and undercutting to achieve market saturation), most of their OSS problems would disappear. Their arrogance in this area is one of the few things that could ever bring them down.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  39. Re:No I got it all right by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Are you talking about the paid links that appear to the side of the main results???

    I was referring to pay-for-placement being not obvious from algorythmic results.


    They have placement ads on the right and at the top. The ones at the top are barely differentiated from the search results, on purpose(The sponsored links). Believe me, this is part of why I use it.

    Quoting Google: With Google AdWords you create your own ads, choose keywords to tell us where to show your ads and pay only when someone clicks on them.

    Like I said, we spend thousand a month with just Google. I like google too, but they are just as "for sale" as the rest. Great. Im glad, because I am buying and I like what they are selling.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  40. User Experience? by Zapdos · · Score: 3, Funny

    My M$ Hotmail is such a good user experience that I am sure M$ will win this one folks.

    Here are just a few of the great thing I have learned today?

    1.) I was able to help out a coed who was low on cash, and had just bought a camera.
    2.) I have found out how to refinance my House.
    3.) I now can have up to 26 physical contractions during climax.
    4.) I am considering the Get Bigger 100% Proven Results offer.
    5.) I may be able to get rid of high credit card intrest

    How could google beat these people?

  41. Re:Microsoft will just buy Google by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's all about the money...to stupid people. I'm not at all convinced that Google will sell. If it was making a buck, they could have done that years ago.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  42. Bad. by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't see it.

    Microsoft spends $$$$$ on a search engine to compete with Google. It sucks, but it becomes the default for IE, the default for MSN customers, and the default for the new 'windows internet search' feature (which won't explicitly tie in the browser). 90% of the population will use this shitty search which is based on commercial presence, Google will close shop, and the web will become an even worse wasteland of ads and sales sites.

    Microsoft seldom spends money to be the BEST, they spend money to be the BIGGEST.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  43. They're already doing it by UncleOlethros · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This announcement doesn't surprise me in the least--indeed, I've been expecting to hear some sort of an announcement that Microsoft was intending to offer some sort of search engine widget.

    For the last several weeks, my web server logs have shown that my sites have been crawled heavily by bots from Microsoft-owned IP addresses. (I know they're bots because, even though they don't identify themselves, they DO pick up robots.txt and obey it.)

    This has been going on since, oh, about mid-February.

    Aside from not identifying themselves, the bots are well-behaved: they pick up and obey robots.txt, and they only request a single page at a time and take a few minutes between requests so as to not overtax my servers.

    So, yeah...this announcement is no big surprise to me.

  44. I like Microsoft. by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I do. They make a better browser. The make a better word processor. They make the best mice and joysticks. They make great games. XP is an excellent OS. Not everything they make is great but no company has a perfect track record.

    Back in grad school (starting in '93) I was anti-MS, for no good reason other than they were so big. When I bought a new computer I strongly considered geting OS/2 for it (phew...dodged that bullet). I bought the WordPerfect suite to write my thesis with. I used Navigator to surf the web on my PC. You know, a funny thing happened. WordPerfect was ok for small documents but for something like my modest thesis with images it sucked. I gave MS Office a go (I had never used it before then) and was sold...it got the job done. After I left grad school IE3 was released...the first version to exceed NN. IE has never looked back. For an OS, I have XP at work and home (in addition to an installation of Linux via VMWare for testing) and it works. It doesn't crash, runs fine. One of my Linux zealot coworkers seems to be forever downloading the latest build of something or looking for a better widget, all while Linux looks more and more like Windows on the desktop. I do use OpenOffice.org suite on my home computer, because I gave my wife my copy of Office XP to use on her computer. For simple spreadsheet work and basic letter writing it's fine. It's still no match for Office though.

    So years ago I gave up the pro-this, anti-that stance and took one that's pro-me. I use what works best for me. Period. Best search engine? Google (which is not a verb, you trying-to-be-cool buzzword compliant geeks). If another search engine is better for me, than great, I'll use it. Same goes for other products. I don't have time to waste on half-assed products just to make a point. I want to spend less time wrestling with software and more time getting things done (which translates to more time with my family). I know it's sacrilege to say so here in the geek hive, but MS products generally are better than competing products.

    1. Re:I like Microsoft. by dpete4552 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "They make a better browser."

      http://forever-hacking.net/compare.html

      --
      http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
    2. Re:I like Microsoft. by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where's the rating for speed and UI?

      As for the other issues, not all of them are relevant. "Skinning"? Whoopee. "Sidebar support"? Hmmm, isn't that a Mozilla unique feature? Why not add a "feature": "Is named Mozilla?".

      Seriously, though, through the power of Proxomitron and Cookie Cop I get more configurability than I know what to do with. Throw in POPFile and I've got the power, baby. As for security I've never had a virus, never been hacked, never had any problems. I keep my stuff patched, run a good cheap virus scanner and, oh yeah, use common sense.

    3. Re:I like Microsoft. by Black_Logic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      while Linux looks more and more like Windows on the desktop

      I don't think it'd be considered nit-picking to say that kde and gnome are looking more and more like the windows gui. I'm using flux-box and it's different in a lot of ways. I'm not a huge fan of icons cluttering the desktop and that big ugly kicker panel
      and from flux-boxes site heres a few other interesting features going in a different direction from windows

      # Configurable window tabs.
      # Wheel scroll changes workspace
      # Configurable titlebar (placement of buttons, new buttons etc)
      # New native integrated keygrabber (supports emacs like keychains)
      # Maximize over slit option

      That being said, I don't think it's a bad idea to use elements from windows' interface that work well.
      (also, I'm not affiliated with flux-box development or anything.)

      --
      Ansi's and stupid tricks!
  45. Microsoft isn't in the same league as Google by 200_success · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has anyone ever tried the Search box on www.microsoft.com? The few times I have tried, the search results for their own website were so poor that I ended up using Google with the site:microsoft.com search modifier.

    Besides, Google stands for everything good, and Microsoft stands for everything evil.

    I suppose that Microsoft would try to compete with Google to provide corporate customers with a search engine for their intranet and extranet sites. I doubt that they would get anywhere trying to make money with free web searches.

  46. I wonder if MS are angry at this? by jolyonr · · Score: 5, Funny

    Go to google.com and do a search for

    The best search engine

    now go to google and do a search for

    The worst search engine.

    Fun :)

    Jolyon

    --


    Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
  47. Re:No I got it all right by unitron · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Google manages to display your ad (or whoever's) ,and if it's something I'm interested in I'll check it out or ignore it if I'm not interested, while giving me good search results without beating my eyeballs bloody with people trying to sell me stuff.

    Microsoft is constitutionally incapable of doing things that way. Google gives you search results, MS wants to give you a "user experience". I've already had all the Microsoft experiences I care for.

    --

    I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  48. Re:I like Microsoft, I've haven't seen OS X yet. by presearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but MS products generally are better than competing products...

    That's OK. It's not your fault that you've had limited exposure to quality products.
    I guess if people don't use Mac OS X they can muddle along with M$ dreck and
    homegrown Linux. I'm almost envious that you'll be able to visit an Apple Store
    nearby and discover anew how wonderful computing can really be. It will be
    a whole new enlightening experience. Come join us.

  49. microsoft as a verb by GordoSlasher · · Score: 2, Funny

    Google is already so powerful and so popular that it's already a verb in most people's vocabulary.

    I can't wait for Microsoft to be used as a verb:
    "Our company was microsofted so we'll have to let you all go."

  50. Why Microsoft sucks. (Yes, really.) by Tokerat · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Put simply: they try to be everything and everyone. They are always trying to be the "next big thing", but not by putting all their efforts into making their current endeavours into quality results, but instead trying to spread their manpower (and therefore their streams of income) over the vast technology market.

    Oh, sure other companies do this too, but not the way MS does. Apple, for example, doesn't have their own database software (anthough they do have their own browser now). Sun doesn't have their own search engine. Redhat doesn't have a special online service. And Google does not have their own OS.

    Seriously, as the largest software company in the world, Microsoft could still make it to step three (if you've been under a rock for 2 years: "Profit!") without trying to be the one and only market leader for everything technology related. They need to make Windows, and perhaps their Office Suite, and make them good, and less expensive. They need to work with other developers, even if those developers aren't paying them top dollar to be part of the MSDN. Open Standards. Simplicity.

    Quality.

    And this is why we hate Microsoft. Greed before quality.

    --
    CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  51. Re:I like Microsoft, I've haven't seen OS X yet. by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have used OS X (we have a test box that runs OS X...I work in a Java shop so we have to test across platforms). I should have included a caveat in my original post stating I would use OS X over XP at work (at home, I need the games, man). When my company purchased a new computer for me they bought me a Dell. Fine machine, but I really lobbied for a G4 running OS X and was turned down. I continue to rag on the IT guys about it (one of whom uses a Mac as his primary computer!) so perhaps in the next upgrade cycle I'll get my wish...

  52. This is like... by ZoneGray · · Score: 3, Funny

    Micorsoft taking on Google? This is like those Iraqi press conferences where they claim that they're going to lash out and smite the agressors. Sheesh.

    Come to think of it, are we really sure Bill Gates is alive? I mean, I'm sure it's him in those videotapes, but you really can't be sure of when they're made. You notice he never holds up a current newspaper when you see him on TV?

    Seriously, one of the big reasons Google is popular is that it's not at all like Microsoft. It will be difficult for Microsoft to duplicate that formula.

  53. Microsoft is probably going after paid search by esconsult1 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    They're probably going to acquire someone really soon, just to get a jumpstart on the Paid clicks technology space (PPC). Probably findwhat.com?

    Lets face it, Google has algorithmic search sewn up for now, and MSN's search sucks so bad, that they are going to have a heck of a time convincing people to use a "new improved" MSN search.

    Let's assume that 50% of American users are already online... If you'e buying books and you've been on the web for more that 1 year, you've pretty much narrowed it down to one or two sites where you're going to ever buy books online. Similarly, you've narrowed down your search preferences.

    My landlord loves Dogpile and will never switch even though he knows that Google is better.

    My point is that Microsoft will have to aim their search at that 5% of the 50% of US users that are total newbies. And they're going to have to force them to do it through the IE browser and other nefarious means.

    The US search market is already well segmented, and unless they are heading for China or India (or post Sadaam Iraq), then I wish them luck.

  54. Formula by Zepalesque · · Score: 2, Funny

    1) Annouce you're a competitor of google
    2) ????
    3) $$$$

    Oh wait - this is Microsoft

    1) $$$
    2) ????
    3) Announce you're a competitor of google

    That's better.

  55. All I wish to say to this is..... by jantheman · · Score: 2

    ......bastards.

    please ignore sig on this point - you will be more likely to gain nirvana on your 2nd journey - me

    (& apparently "there is no aitch in nirvana")

    --
    -- Mod me down. I am not a karma tart. ffs,gag
  56. Ironic Considering MSDN Article by Tronster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I find it ironic that Microsoft would say this, considering a recent (March 1, 2003) MSDN article about: Build Your Own Research Library with Office 2003 and the Google Web Service API.

  57. Re:No I got it all right by benh57 · · Score: 4, Informative

    google ads are NOT called 'placement'. The terms 'pay for placement' or 'paid placement' have very specific meanings in the search engine industry, and google does not use them.

  58. Re:Micro-pon by dacarr · · Score: 2, Funny

    My wife dissents. She doesn't believe that "aerodynamic" is a term one can apply to feminine hygeine products.

    --
    This sig no verb.
  59. Re:No I got it all right by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 5, Insightful


    I was referring to pay-for-placement being not obvious from algorythmic results.

    They have placement ads on the right and at the top. The ones at the top are barely differentiated from the search results, on purpose(The sponsored links). Believe me, this is part of why I use it.


    I completely disagree. The pay-for-placement links are very obviously removed from the normal search results.

    I did two quick searches. The first was for "linux". Below the Google header / navigation bar is our first sponsored link. This link is encased in a pink box and clearly labled "sponsored link". Below that is a category listing. Below that is a few lines of news items related to Linux from google news. Then comes the search results on the left flanked on the far right by two sponsored links in their own blue boxes and clearly labled "sponsored links".

    I performed another search - this time for "athlon". Two seperately labled "sponsored links" encased in blue and orange boxes respectfully. A category listing. Then comes search results flanked on the far-right by four clearly labled "sponsored links" each in their own green box.

    Google CLEARLY seperates their sponsored content from their normal search results. Other search engines selling placement have intermixed search results with sponsored content with the sponsored bits coming up earlier in the listing and no labeling or seperation. This is very different than what Google does.
  60. Any one remember... by trinity93 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any one remember sidewalk.com? M$ lost soo much money on that they are still trying to figure out what happened, but then again they also screwed a lot of small biz out of lots of cash to get listed in it. another fine example of "build it and they will come" mentality, except nobody came. So the way i see it, google has nothing to worry about.

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    We substituted the coffee Slashdot normally drinks with "Sandoz Crystals", Lets see if they notice the difference
  61. Go to Hell, Microsoft! by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 2, Funny

    A few months ago, you could type "go to hell" in Google's search box, and it would return www.microsoft.com as the first link. You can read more about this here, here and here.

  62. Verbal Abuse...I'm gonna Microsoft you. by buffy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Someone says, "I'm going to google you" and I'm cool with that. Someone else says, "I'm going to Microsoft you" and I'm likely to get the urge to smack 'em. Really hard, in fact.

    Google has a really good reputation in the community, Microsoft does not. If judged by quality alone, Google's engine wins without a competition.

    Unfortunately such things are not a bellweather for business success.

  63. And the Truth is... by serutan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Everybody I know at Microsoft, where I work as a contractor, uses Google as their primary search engine. Here's an example of why: recently at work I wanted the syntax for the VBScript SELECT CASE statement. I already had an MSDN window open for something else, so I typed in "vbscript select case" and here's what it found. Not wanting to wade through this mass of irrelevance I typed the exact same thing into Google and got this, a whole page of exactly what I was looking for.

    Rock on.

    1. Re:And the Truth is... by RupW · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I already had an MSDN window open for something else, so I typed in "vbscript select case"

      If you just type 'select case' instead then this is the first hit.

      And you really don't want to use MSDN web's search - you want an offline MSDN's index which I can't see on the web version. Type 'select case' into that and you get: (mangled since I can't table)
      Index Results for Select Case statement - 6 topics found
      Visual Basic Language Specification - 8.9.2 Select...Case Statements
      Visual Basic Language Concepts - Decision Structures
      Microsoft Scripting Technologies - Select Case Statement
      Visual Basic Language Concepts - Select...Case Statements (Conceptual)
      Visual Basic Language Reference - Select...Case Statements (Language Reference)
      Microsoft Scripting Technologies - Using Conditional Statements
      the third of which is what you want. Better still, use context help in Visual Studio.NET and I think it'll even pick the right one for you.

      And Microsoft's documentation is very good in general - I'd pick MSDN over most third parties for things like that.
  64. Re:even with lots of bandwidth by shades66 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    it's my homepage too! And only because it is FAST and un-bloated. You can guarantee that the microsoft version is going to be bloat city with loads of fancy graphics/logos/adverts?(for other microsoft services anyway!) and the results tucked away in a small window somewhere.

    long live google!

    Mark.

    --
    ---- There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't
  65. What's your definition of Bug? Of bloated? by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Both Netscape and MSIE are and have been quite bloated. Here are some sample compresed download sizes, the installed size is probably much larger:
    Netscape 2.0 3.3MB
    Netscape 3.0 5.9 MB
    Netscape 4.0 8.0 MB
    Netscape 4.78 23.5 MB

    MSIE 2.0 1.2 MB
    MSIE 3.0 5.1 MB
    MSIE 4.0 16.7MB
    MSIE 5.0 11.9 MB

    Could you expand upon your other claim? I find overwhelming evidence to support the idea that MSIE has also been chronically plagued with severe bugs, generally severe problems.

    As to why it is common, if you recall the anti-trust trial in the U.S. where Microsoft was found guilty and the appeal where the verdict of guilty was upheld, you'll find that among the records is the fact the MSIE gained market because it was bundled with MS-Windows.

    If left to compete on technical merits, MSIE will fall out of the market place and disappear. MSIE has fallen so far behind in technology, usability and security that it's a marketing wonder that any corporate intranets allow it at all. Perhaps offering a Google-like competitor is the only way to keep from losing all ground to Mozilla, Opera and others.

    Microsoft could easily shut out any normal search service by further leveraging their desktop monopoly. Simply add searching functions in MSIE that make it hard to use anything than their own service, much the same way that HTTP error messages have been co-opted in MSIE.

    Makers of embedded devices and other systems are quite aware of this and have been turning to Mozilla and Opera.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  66. Re:even with lots of bandwidth by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL, you'll need MS Windows, MS IE and an MS Passport to use it!

    Long live MS!

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    That was classic intercourse!
  67. Microsoft's insurmountable challenge by fbg111 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The main problem MS faces in competing with Google is that Google is part of the world zeitgist. Nobody is going to go on a date, then come home and "MSN her". To "Google" someone is actually a verb. Even people who don't know jack shit about the internet know to type in www.google.com when they need to look something up. Google's immense power, completely unthreatening simplicity, and unique style have combined to make it more of a global phenomenon rather than just another internet search engine. MS may be able to copy some of Google's features, like the clean interface, the huge index, the nice extra features, etc., but making it into the zeitgist is as much a matter of being in the right place at the right time as it is about having the right product. Google has mindshare on a massive level, and that is what MS will have to compete with. I don't see them succeeding at it any time soon.

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  68. MS vs. Google - What has Bill been smoking. by AtomicX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google is:

    - Fast
    - Efficient
    - Powerful
    - Accurate
    - Largely Bug Free

    These are features which oppose Microsoft's core ideology, and so they have no chance in hell of beating Google at its game.

    MS' track record in this area is absolutely appalling. MSN's search feature is slow and returns some ridiculously irrelevant results at times. Microsoft's homepage is even worse, the search box is confusing, it is slow as hell (Microsoft were dumb enough to use Windows / IIS on their web servers - fools), and it returns results which are about as useful to the user as a pro-Microsoft story on Slashdot.

  69. Wanting versus doing. by supabeast! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    MS can want to take on Google all they want to, but as long as MSN remains a mess of clashing colors, pictues, advertising, pop-ups, and unnrealated information, it will just remain another crappy ISP's attempt to build a portal that can convince AOL.com junkies to switch. And given MSN's history of screwing up pretty much everything, that will not happen.

  70. Used as a verb... by weshart · · Score: 2, Funny

    Microsoft shouldn't feel left out - I use their name as a verb all the time. Granted, it's usually in sentences like: "I'm gonna Microsoft your datacenter back to the stone age." But still...