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HP Thailand Sells $450 Linux Laptop
greyrax writes "The revolution has begun! Seems that the Thailand branch of HP is selling Linux-based laptops for $450. The government of Thailand is now talking to Dell Thailand about a similar arrangement."
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When did HP buy Thailand? What's next? MS Canada?
What kind of laptops? How many of these were they selling (as many as people would buy or a fixed number)? Can Anyone buy one? Can I buy one over the internet? Would I want to buy one? The list goes on. Anyone have any links to know the answers to any of these questions?
$450? I somehow doubt this is a particularly excellent piece of hardware. I mean, even accounting for the "M$ tax" as it were (which is negligible when applied in bulk OEM licenses anyway) and considering that it's difficult to find a decent laptop for under $800... well, I think this is kinda fishy.
All the posturing and buying senators that Microsoft can do in the US, and Europe will have no effect when China, and India come online in a big way. Especially for governments suspicious of Windows, and the possibility of backdoors.
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Resell these for ~$500 or so and I know a lot of people would eat this up on this side of the pond.
Just imagine the shipping costs if you have to send it back for service!
Is it an english keyboard? Can I buy one without having to learn Thai??
Hmm now that's what caught my eye. I believe they said
This could get interesting... I know Wal-Mart sells headless Linux boxes for $200 but the only people that buy them are guys who already run Linux. The support could persuade a LOT more people into using Linux.
VIVE LA REVOLUTION!
... better put freedom in there somewhere to make it okay ...
Ohhh crap, I'm gonna get flamed
VIVE FREEDOM REVOLUTION!
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
Witty or funny here...but you know what, that is just a helluva deal. You don't find that many Linux based portables as it is, and finding one at this price would be great.
Now how about spreading the love to those of us in U.S.?
The revolution has begun!
Shoot. . . I work for the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. . . should I be concerned?
Cnet.com has the specifications on the laptop.
800MHz Intel Celeron processor
128MB of RAM
20GB hard disk
It's about bloody time.
This is what linux is best for, after all - low cost hardware made to run just as fast as the new stuff via the application of a good, stable, OS. Also the fact that this allows HP to cut M$ out of the picture completely. An OS is really the only computer component that can be had free, and I see no reason why this couldn't be done on this side of the ocean.
How long before Walmart (a company that I usually loathe) starts selling a super-low-cost lindows laptop? I'd sure buy it! (Or have they released one already?)
(-:Stephonovich:-)
"Who needs reincarnation when we've got parallel universes?" -Me
Yeah, my work day is done.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Anyone know the specs on this bird? I have a ole Toshiba laptop with an 8086 and 320x200 B&W LCD, MS-DOS 2.11 embedded for less than this. No hard drive, through, floppy only. A 720K floppy, that is.
That's the clincher! It isn't always how cheaply you can build this, but if you can keep up with demand. With wishful thinking that this could spill over to the rest of the world. The real question is can ICT get someone else to make some of these. After that can we get them distributed to the rest of us?...
If only HP makes these it will never happen,but maybe this could eventially make its way throughout the industry.
See the Pictures of the Flood of '08
1. Find wholesale friend in Thailand
2. Import said cheap laptops
3. Remove evidence of thai-stuff from laptop
4. ?????
5. PROFIT!!!!!
Yeah, they could call it the Thaibook!
Sorry...
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
This is more than enough power to do word processing, databases, presentations, internet, and email. Is this the begining of the second wave of the computer revolution?
...as long as you're a good Thaipist. ducks
Karma: Retard (Mostly effected by reading
Is that spelling of affected part of the joke?
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Upon hearing the news, Mr. Gates starting swirling into a giant Thai-phoon, quickly engulfing some of his troglodytes, but not the beefy Mr. Ballmer. He is like stone and stood his ground, for that is why the call him STONE MAN!!!
...or will this revolution not be televised?
-R
I just bought an HP notebook a few months ago (here in the U.S., where I couldn't avoid the M$ tax). Since then I've seen another HP notebook with a faster Athlon and bigger hard disk (40 gig vs. 30 gig) for the same $850 I paid. Considering that HP will build the systems with 20, 30 or 40 gig drives, will put a 14.5 inch rather than a 15 inch screen, give a choice of CPU, and will sell it with a DVD drive rather than the DVD/CDRW drive I got, it certainly makes sense that you can get a decent Linux notebook for this price, although I would expect a 40 gig version with a DVD/CDRW drive and a hot processor to certainly be more. But HP could well sell decent notebooks here at that price too if they dropped the M$ tax.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The government of Thailand is the real force behind this move. That is an interesting development, has Microsoft ever taken on a government before? (I'm kidding) I wonder who has more cash?
The fact that Linux has no licensing fee does give these machines a competitive advantage, especially if the user intends on puchasing a pirated copy of Windows. In fact, this government-sponsored initiative also gives an advantage to the software pirates, i.e., it gives them a new market. Hmm, is this a good idea? Is there any fair way to avoid this? Or is it that Microsoft creates their own disadvantage here by way of their licensing policies and fees?
The bulk of the TCO for these machines is assumed to be end user support. Really? If you install a kernel especially suited to the hardware on the laptop, I'd think support would be down. I've struggled very hard with Linux (Debian and Slackware) over the years, but it's always been over hardware issues. Once I learnt enuff Perl to do stuff, use of the Linux environment has been natural and intuitive for me.
In Windows, I am still a stranger in a strange land. I still can't get Windows to do what I want it to do on a regular basis, but hardware setup is usually pretty smooth. If I had been wise enough to ask someone smarter than I to build my kernel for each Linux box I have deployed, I would have spent WAY less time and money on support for them compared to the Windows machines. Is my experience so unique as to be counter to the conventional wisdom? How did the Thai Ministry conclude that they must anticipate higher support costs?
The best way to do is to be.
Laptops shouldn't cost as much as they do. I personally think manufacturers are conspiring on prices especially lcd screens.
Why the hell aren't there any laptop do it your self kits?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Right you are, according to this CNet article:
The government is subsidizing the cost of the hardware...
Sorry folks, I don't think the Thai government is going to pony up for the rest of us.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
At least I get a free trip to Thailand out of it.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Lindows Mobile PC
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Do they have a two headed display?
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
My rights don't need management.
Using Linux over Windows really isn't what is making these laptops much cheaper (though yes the MS tax is gone now). The reason these laptops are this cheap is because the Thai government is subsidizing (sp?) the cost of the hardware, creating a "peoples computer." So nothing really new here in the world of competition, just something one government like any other could do.
Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
I work in HP support, we cover shipping both ways. The user never has to pay a dime for it unless they want it overnight.
You have to open the package wearing a bunny suit, incinerate the packing materials, then wipe the whole thing down with a strong anti-bacterial. Oh wait, wrong country...
When the heck is HP and Dell gonna sell laptops with Linux in the US...
Never I guess....
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
I deal enough DOS attacks from Thailand. Now the whole fricken country is going to have a lap top. I'm screwed.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
That was the sound of the 800lb gorilla in the corner getting smacked upside the head. Ted Tschopp
Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
. Additionally, with the rampant amount of piracy in Thailand, users could easily purchase the low-cost PCs and install pirated Windows software on them.
...
"This could make Microsoft tremble in its boots," Ma said. "What you've got is a blank canvas in which the user can paint any color he wishes whether that's officially licensed Microsoft software or pirated software."
Or you could run Linux on it...
and I was thinking of visiting Thailand too. They'd better not stamp a EULA on my passport.
My Blog
Most companies are completely ignoring the SCO threats. I know that mine is.
The only thing I use my dvd rom drive for is installs and ripping movies and music. I no longer include any sort of floppy drives in my computers and it won't be long before I stop including optical drives also. I might keep one around for ripping and maybe a burner but that's about it. Most my data goes straight through the network or resides on a removable harddrive. Other than my servers I'm even working on removing drives altogether from my computers and setting them up as thin clients.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
That's fine. The PHB's companies can keep spending an extra few million a year on software. That makes life easier for all their competition that is smart enough to accept the savings. :)
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
hardware setup is usually pretty smooth
Case in point:
We just got some new desktops for the office. None had OS as we were replacing old gear.
I installed, redhat 9, on mine, networked it with my old box, set up an scp to transfer by home dir, went for coffee. Applied all os patches from rhn, installed the nvidia drivers, so I can play quake. Done, total time ~3 hours.
The competition?
Day 1: Installed win2k, had some issue with license key, hunted around for key, gave up, went to warez. Finished install. Unable to connect to network, checked dhcp server, no issue, read news groups.
Second day - Found alternate network driver, got network running, spent rest of day looking for install disks and more keycodes.
And so on... nobody else has been able to switch their computers yet, its been a week, and their new machines are just sitting there.
Yeah, windows is easier to install, sure...
Maybe this is a dopey consideration, and I'm just a soft-headed idealist, but I no longer buy anything made in Thailand, if I can help it.
Here's the deal: In February, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced that in three months, Thailand would win the war on drugs. When the attempt officially ended, according to the Associated Press, 2,274 Thais had been killed. The government said that only about 35 of these killings were committed by the police, in justifiable self-defense, but the Thai people and various human rights organizations believe that many more of these killings were done by the police in extrajudicial executions.
This seems barbaric to me. The only way I have of expressing my opinion of these acts is to not spend my money on Thai goods.
P.S. There are still drugs in Thailand. Surprising, isn't it?
I for one can't wait as I'd like to sell a good well supported Laptop with a good OS, and HP tech support has always had an excellent reputation.
I think in a coupla years time when the suits have had time to play around with their Linux laptops, they won't be so unhappy to wave goodbye to Microsoft, after all if this Linux thing turns out to be shit they can always call them back in to clean up the mess.
However Linux isn't and won't be shit.
Economic Left/Right: -0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69
Somewhere around here I have a compaq contura aero.. a whopping 486sx/33 with 4megs of ram. Sub standard sub sized screen that can't be used in the light of day, sub notebook.
In about 1993 or so, it was one among many sub $1000 notebook computers... pretty spiffy back then. I think I paid like $250 or mine at some point, as it was a 486 sx after all.
In 2003, it is a hunk of junk, not worth my bother and effort to get more ram to make a basic linux install bearable, but never the less the unit did have some charm to it at the time.
But I saw the areo being a good thing, dispite it obvious flaws. While it didn't change the world, it was indeed an afordable laptop.
This is the problem that I see with any sorta budget solution, esp with laptops. A simple lack of standardization tends to make them not nessicarly the best option in the PC world. Though, goverment sponcered involement in actually laying down the specifications for a people's laptop could actually change this, i'd hope.
While yes a celeron 800 is indeed substantal, there will always been a need to upgrade at some point, if Thailand actually thought about this, and actually demanded future expantion in the form of motherboard removal and replacement, I can see this as being increadabily cool. Dispite the fact that my laptop has it's issues, i'd invest a few bucks in a motherboard upgrade if it was a viable option, dispite it crappy sub sized screen.
The linux side of things, well i'm not all that sure it will pan out the way we expect. Older slashdot artical said something about the "war" between microsoft and linux, and in cases where it looks like microsoft might loose to linux, they would give away licenses. Don't get me wrong, I hope that Thailand would beable to say to the world, "Fuck you, we don't pirate anymore, we're using this free thing over here".
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Why is it so hard to imagine that users will simply just use whatever comes with the machine? As long as it works, and even if it occasionally crashes or doesn't work in some way (eg, the long sordid history of a certain monopoly vendor)., they'll probably never bother to go to the considerable trouble to reformat and install 'doze.
Especially since the machine doesn't include a cdrom or floppy drive.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
Just a point, if people buy laptops or computers at that price with Linux, then it had better be as easy to use as some of the zealots here are claiming. Otherwise, it could earn itself a bad reputation. Ppl might assume Windows costs more because it's better.
I'm not a big fan of Linux, but I do wish it success.
"Derp de derp."
http://h50100.www5.hp.com/Store/default.asp?href=h ttp://h50100.www5.hp.com/Store/productMain.asph at is the url for the Thai online HP store and the notebook products page.
T
All the notebooks show some kind of Windoze on them.
The bottom of the page has this tag line:
"HP PCs use genuine Microsoft® Windows®"
Thailand is a wonderful place to visit with a lot of great people. Even if you can't get a good Linux laptop online I suggest a trip there.
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
http://www.ict.go.th/promo/comict/spec.html - In thai but you can see the spec, it's actually a via chip though, and there's the desktop version aswell
6 70 27341544501
and the pic
http://www.manager.co.th/asp-bin/Image.asp?ID=4
There's also a rumour that microsoft is preparing $30 windows to combat this as well, but somebody who wants windows in thailand would probably get a pirated one for $2 bucks anyway.
Actually, the Thai government has been putting money into linux for a long time. About four years ago, I remember several big competitions for Thai fonts. The ministry of culture(?) is worried about the loss of the Thai language-- the thai web was looking very english back then.
Even if pirated copies are "free," it's in the government's best long-term interests to promote a Free solution, so piracy doesn't get in the way of trade treaties.
my mistake... thanks for clarifying that.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
I think Thaipad would be a good choice. It might just fool a bunch of Germans into thinking it is a brothel operated by Japanese who cater to bondage enthusiasts, and before the story gets straightened out the Thai government is a few million Euros richer. In fact, this would likely continue until the US decided to invade Thailand to stop the sale of tools of mass computing. While there, the Americans will insist on a new name for the capital city, one which can be spoken aloud in the presence of teens.
Boy, am I ready for a long weekend!
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
scripsit MsGeek:
First thing I'd do in a case like that is wipe Lindows and put a real Linux distro in...maybe Knoppix, maybe Mandrake 9.1.
TKinias said:
You misspelled Debian...
Just FYI, Knoppix IS Debian... Debian without the pain of installation.
It runs directly from a CDROM - you don't even need a hard drive! It's certainly worth taking a look if you haven't already.
I mean, even accounting for the "M$ tax" as it were (which is negligible when applied in bulk OEM licenses anyway)
Negligible?
Manufacture's costs will exponentionally increase the customer's price.
For example, lets assume that the manufacturer pays an OEM license of only 50 bucks for win xp (no idea what it goes for these days, could be much more).
That part of the product is likley added the Bill of Materials (BOM) and is part of the total cost of the product.
Manufacturer's will never simply add $50 to the Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). These guys are in business to make money and as such expect profit margins. They were not ever planning on selling the finished product at their own cost. Thier distributors are making a profit, so are the salesreps, and so is the store you finally get the product from.
Pretty simple economics.
Ever wonder why that 128 mp3 player in the store costs so much more than the 64 meg one? Sure memory is cheap these days, but if it costs a manufacturer 5 dollars to make it instead of 2, you'll see the difference big time.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Now, forgive me... but why bother pirating M$-bloatware when the 5-10% of users who actually will reformat their systems. These things aren't going to be super gaming platforms to begin with.
How the "pirate market" really matters I couldn't say. If you can get on the internet, you are 3 steps away from pirate software.
---
Newsflash, microsoft files suit against every ISP running DNS. Their claim: negligent ISPs allow users to find serial keys by being the *portal* to www.kazaa-lite.com.
Bryan Ma, senior research manager with IDC for the Asia-Pacific region, said that the PCs could pose a threat to Microsoft for two reasons. HP's decision to preload Linux, which can be distributed for free, allows customers to avoid the cost of a license for Microsoft's Windows operating system. Additionally, with the rampant amount of piracy in Thailand, users could easily purchase the low-cost PCs and install pirated Windows software on them.
I bet that the MS countermove would be to offer to pay the subsidy for the Thai gov't if they instead used Windows machines. The two choices: (1) Use Thai gov't revenue to subsidize the hardware, or (2) Let somebody else pay the subsidy for you for an OS that is far more prevalent.
Being a gov't body where the bottom line is nearly always the major influence, where do you go?
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
Shoot. . . I work for the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. . . should I be concerned?
Just come with me, sir. Just walk over to the wall over there, there will be a reception comittee waiting for you. They would all like to show their appriciation for making Clippy seem like a nice guy.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I was in Thailand 18 months ago for a wedding, and saw Tux painted on the windows of computer storefronts in several locations - Bangkok, Phuket, and the Bangkok suburbs. There were quite a few internet cafes, with cheap rates to send or receive emails.
In addition, pirated IP was easily available. PS1 games, PC games, and music CDs were $5 each. I was offered NT version 4.0 server for $25 by a street vendor. Not many pirated DVDs, but lots of movies on video CD.
I run Windows 2000 on a Gateway P200 with 96MB of ram. Runs just fine.
98 runs great on my P133 32MB laptop.
I have XP Pro running great on a PIII 933 with 128MB of ram.
But it's great to tell people it takes a fast system to run Windows. It helps encourage people to upgrade or buy a brand spanking new system. Good for the economy.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Actulally, this is the project by Thai government offered to Thai citizen who can not afford buying the computer at current market price. It is limited to one computer per household only. (you must show them supported documents, eg. the house registration, ID, etc)
2) Notebook 19500 Baht (VIA 800MHz, 128MB Ram, 20GB Harddisk, 10.4"TFT, speakers,fax/modem,fast ethernet, no floppydisk & CDrom)
The buyer can buy at full price (cash) or via financing service offered by government's bank (24 months @~1000 baht/month for notebook and 490 Baht/month for Desktop)
Current specs:
1) Desktop 10900 Baht(Celeron 1.0 GHz, 128MB Ram, CDRom, 20GB Harddisk,15"monitor,speakers,keyboard,fax/modem)
The desktop will be manufactured by ~12 Local Brand suppliers while the notebook is currently manufactured by HP (OEM by HP sell with brand ICT) and the government is negotiating with other manufacturer.
All computers will be sold under brand "ICT" not HP or anything else.
I hope this should clear up some confusion.
I'm not a flamer, really i'm not. Why is it that all these forign governments are all looking into linux? I believe BSD would serve a government better. Yes i'm on linux now, it allows a lot more fiddling and customizing, but linux is just too open for secure government type settings. Is "Linux" still on a buzz word high??
PS, i realise a lot of people reading this have no knowledge of BSD, please keep that in mind when writing replies. And for the BSDers, OpenBSD.
Dude. ThaiMaster. You missed the easy one.
--
"I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo
Microsoft:
Annual Revenues: $28.4 bil
Net Income: $7.8 bil (ibid)
Debts: $12.7 bil (ibid)
Cash on hand: $42.6 bil (ibid)
Thai Government:
Annual Revenues: $24.5 billion
Deficit: $2.1 bil (ibid)
Foreign Debts: $3.8 bil
Foreign Reserves: $38.7 bil (ibid)
Thailand is barely ahead excluding non-cash assets on both sides, but Microsoft's cash generation will bring them ahead within 12 months, more likely less than 6.
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
If you can pick up a pirated version of XP on the market, next to the durians, for $3, how much of a price advantage does Linux have?
Virtually serving coffee
What I'd imagine is just including USB and an ethernet port. If someone needs a CD, tie in through one of those. That way, you save the cost of the CD, save battery, and lighten the laptop to boot.
And stick Lilo / network boot on the bios, so that you can install it over the network quickly.
Let's see... also good would be a monochrome electronic ink display behind plastic, a hall-effect keyboard/mouse, and a decent sound system. With that, there isn't a whole lot I couldn't do. Nice long battery life, lightweight, strong.
One last thing: include the powerpack inside the computer. My favorite is to have the case be the transformer (top plate is one winding, bottom plate is another, sides are the carry-through to make a ring), and let the magnetic iron double as structural strength for the whole thing.
It would definitely require some redesign, though.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Pretty please.
It's a very interesting and pithy summary of the situation, and opened my eyes, certainly.
YAW.
Your head of state is a corrupt weasel, I hope you're happy.
Installing Windows without a CD drive is tough. Few people would bother.
There's also the question of whether the machine can run Windows at all. If it's custom-built for Linux, it might have boot ROMs that aren't Windows-compatible. It would make sense to boot with something that offers few boot-time options, good startup diagnostics, and has all the messages in the native language.
"Yeah, they could call it the Thaibook!
I think Thaipad would be a good choice."
Don't you mean PadThai?
I know, I know... don't quit my day job.
If someone has a later model digital camera, digital video recorder, mp3 player or some other type of new (or esoteric) hardware it might sometimes make more sense for them to use windows to interact with these devices. In such a case, doing a reload with winxp will probably get them results they want quicker than tracking down, configuring, finding kernel modules for and installing the proper Linux drivers, if they exist.
I have to admit, even though I don't like using Microsoft code, I do. I keep a winXP machine around (but safely offline) for just the abovementioned interface applications with my various gadgets. I don't keep any data on it because I expect to have to relaod the OS without warning at almost any time. I regard it is a sort of over-priced commercial device portal for my home network.
I think this Thai iniative will yield good things also.
The best way to do is to be.