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Kazaa/Altnet To Pay Users For Trading Content
mesozoic writes "News.com is reporting that Kazaa and Altnet are unrolling a setup where users are paid to distribute 'authorized content.' The article also mentions something about getting rid of unauthorized files, but is unclear on when and how. I'll be paying close attention to whether this P2P business model pans out; Sharman _has_ shown some shrewd business sense in the past."
Great, now I can get paid to host some companies spam on my computer. Lucky me!
how about this idea instead, they take out gator and any other nasties they include.
they can keep the money, we'll just call it even.
Mike
almost as dumb as getting paid to look at more ads while surfing the internet (a few years back). users were paid so little that it wasn't worth it. and hacking it got your account killed. those bastards.
I write code.
If they try to go legal, they'll get trounced by Apple, disowned by computer users, and end up lie the legal version of Napster...forgotten.
If they stay illegal, they'll get trounced by Apple, keep their user base, and not make a penny for it. Great business sense indeed...
This sounds good in theory but I would be surprised if it actually pans out to be profitable in the long run.
Why do I picture a bad made-for-TV movie (yes, I know that's redundant) where the guys are looking at each other, nodding, and saying, "you know, it's so crazy it just might work..."
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
This sounds even better than when Bill Gates e-mailed me saying he will pay me $5.00 for every person I forward the message to!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
So say someone in the USA downloads my copy of 'That's When Your Heartaches Begin' to complete his Sun Studios collection, he would be a law breaker, a german doing the same would be enjoying his right to peruse material in the public domain, but where would I stand?
Economic Left/Right: -0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69
Ow! Hope you know a good prcctologist! - UC
(Insert obligatory SP reference of list of steps with the 2nd last step being "???" and last step being "Profit")
...that it would be easier to just host the content themselves. The real value is in getting listed in the search results, and bandwidth is relatively cheap compared to the complexity of a system that tracks and pays random idiots on the net. Of course, I am probably wrong.
Life in Orange County
Sharman _has_ shown some shrewd business sense in the past.
Yeah, just don't squeeze him.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
I can earn peer points for allowing my computer to be used as a distributed host for someone elses software. From P2P to B2P2P, except I don't have to want the stuff on my computer.
Next stop, My computer will be used as a pr0n server without my knowledge, and since it will be (semi-)encrypted, I won't even necessarily know about it.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Or if anyone will care.
a world in progress...
You'll get better speed, less pop-ups and MORE PORNO
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Yeah... Kazaa sending out checks to people. They will then officially be doing business with people all over the country.
Sharman executives say the new system is well worth bundling inside their software, but they say it can be easily removed if users don't wish to participate.
"Altnet's Peer Points is like the spell checker in Microsoft's Word," said Phil Morle, director of technology for Sharman Networks. "It's an integral part of the program that you can choose to use or not."
And it's not like Sharman and Brilliant Digital would ever try to pull a fast one on their users, would they?
GMD
watch this
This model seems like it would apply better to BITTorrent, where companies could provide a link on their website to download a song/movie/whatever. It makes more sense that way, companies could sell content on their website and not have to worry about having the bandwidth available should certain content become extremely popular.
Visualize the world of wine
'They can then host files that are authorized for distribution through this network and will receive "Peer Points" that can be redeemed for prizes every time someone uploads a file.'
One of those banned Shadowbane players already has 768,323,000,000 Peer Points, and plans to redeem them for a Harrier jet.
Because the companies didn't communicate their plans with Kazaa users, the news sparked fears of "spyware"
Spyware fears with Kazaa? Unthinkable!
1) Profit!
I hereby authorize you to distribute l337 ju4r3z. Send cheques to...
Trolling is a art,
how about they pay for installing spyware/adware? that'd be a good start.
Are just like money, but more fun!
[walks into amusement park, signs everywhere that say "Peer Points not accepted here"]
Doh!
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
I've got to believe the way this will work is that the users will pay per download and you get the money for it (minus Kaaza's listing fee.) However, why the heck would anyone want to use their bandwidth to allow other people money to download something they've already paid for? If users aren't going to have to pay to download, where's the money comming from? Ads? Sound like a classic 1-2-3 profit scenario to me.
You know, I always thought that the demise of napster would evolve into the great peer-to-peer era where we can all do filesharing without being tracked.
Gnutella proved to be a tad "too difficult" and Kazaa took off (taking Morpheus out in the process). Besides userbase, the only other advantage I see in Kazaa is the metadata. Still, though, when someone is in control of the entire network, you're forced to take what they give you (or run kazaa-lite).
I haven't followed peer-to-peer in quite some time now. Is there someplace that compares all the different services/protocols and rates them for ease of use, etc? I'm currently using gtk-gnutella but would like to know what my other options are. (qtella, eMule, etc?)
Kazaa's move is essentially an implementation of what BitTorrent's creator alluded to in the recent /. story --
getting past the "subversiveness" of file sharing and making it work for everyone, including the creators of the shared content.
Veddy interesting......
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
They specifically said "authorized", not "legal". Thus someone like who is currently sharing stuff that is legal in the US AFAIK, but not necesserily elsewhere (foreign movies not for sale in US), I doubt that I will be allowed to join this program.
To me this sounds like paying independents, and possibly some bigger companies small money for releasing their "preview" files.
This is not about the users of the network, it is about making the network seem more like a usable market or an advertising medium. Although this is not a bad step, I see no benefit to me, so I am staying on Gnutella, perhaps the only usable network that has no commercialism attached to it.
badness 10000
Come on lobster harmonica!
Now if p2p applications didn't make it hard enough to keep unmetered DSL lines alive, this must be the final touch. :)
The question is(as I am not going to install Kazaa and all it's junk on my pc), how much bandwidth would you need to provide in order to make 1$ - power bill.
And I gues it wouldn't make the job for admins easier at the misc, education institutions.
my sig
Even as Altnet launches its ambitious new service, parent Brilliant Digital is struggling on the edge of financial survival. In a federal securities document filed in late May, the company said it had "negative working capital of approximately $4,165"
How many prize cars does -$4,165 buy?
Esteem isn't a zero sum game
But what about ISP's acceptable use policies? If Kazaa is sending you checks, doesn't this violate almost all Acceptable Use Policies that forbid commerical use of residential broadband access?
Looking at my Roadrunner account's AUP:
Unless you have specifically subscribed for commercial grade service, the Road Runner service is provided to you for personal, non-commercial use only. This service cannot be used for any enterprise purpose whatsoever whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit. If it is your intention to use this service for these purposes, please contact your local cable operator to inquire whether commercial Road Runner service programs are available.
I have to believe hosting Kazaa / Altnet content and getting paid for it *could* get some users in trouble.
Actually, that is not entirely so. In Europe, copyright expires 50 years after the death of the author, not 50 years after the work is published and the author is dead. In the US, the current limit is AFAIK 75 years. As a consequence, Elvis' works are not yet in public domain in Europe.
Other than that, you are absolutely right; it raises some interesting questions. For example, the works of George Orwell passed into public domain in Europe two years ago, but when I featured them on my Web site, I was quickly presented with a cease-and-desist letter from a US publisher. Residing in the US and having all my files on a US-based server, I had to oblige.
By unauthorized I assume they mean copyrighted/illegal files. I think it's also safe to assume that while Kazaa has legal uses, it's primary use is trading copyrighted material. If this material is removed for non-paying users, we'll see a dramatic drops in the number of users.
As has happened in the past, with Napster for example, once one peer-to-peer program removes copyrighted files, there is a mass migration to new, alternative peer-to-peer system that does allow it.
As others have mentioned, I hope that the least Kazaa will do for paying customers is remove all the spyware.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
Just keep using Kazaa Lite, that is, until they find a way to disable access for non-authorized versions, and we all end up with "only" eMule and the other networks, which will probably include a modified version of WASTE in the near future.
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
If this really succeeds (I doubt it) are the ISPs going to sit and see people making money of the bandwitdth they provide? They will start charging per byte and that will offset what kazaa pays you.
Sharman executives say the new system is well worth bundling inside their software, but they say it can be easily removed if users don't wish to participate.
"Altnet's Peer Points is like the spell checker in Microsoft's Word," said Phil Morle, director of technology for Sharman Networks. "It's an integral part of the program that you can choose to use or not."
easily removed and integral part are mutually exclusive. Who are they trying to BS?
Getting paid for using my PC resources (bandwidth and HD space)? I don't think so. Have any of these schemes worked in the past?
Paid for browsing
Paid for viewing ads/click-thru's
Paid for buying 'Flooz'?
Yeah, right. All down the tubes, just like this will.
Throw in Brilliant's spyware track record, and this is a non-starter.
"my god... it's full of stars!"
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
from the not-as-good-as-it-sounds dept.
Umm... Why?
Kazaa can also pay me for the electricity I used to keep my computer on to download files on their slow network. Only 234098234098234098 hours remaing! How much respect must we give to Kazaa? Crappy implemented network, false files, movies encoded in various crappy codecs, pron files that feature ugly people getting Bukkaked.. How much do I have to take? Lastly, as a Mac User I am upset with Kazaa and the fact that it is mid-2003 and there *still* not a Kazaa client for the Mac. Yes, I'm a hypocrite because I'm missing the oppertunity to see ugly people being bukkaked. I consider it a lost cause.
Exactly what are they trying to do? Okey, make money obviously, but it will never work. There is so many alternatives out there which are free, so why would someone who won't even pay for movies or software pay for this? At least Kazaa who also contain so called "spyware" should not really consider this (yes, someone already made this point), so this just have to be a shot in the wrong direction. :-).
And if someone is looking for better alternatives I could recommend gift
Note to self: get smarter troll to guard door.
Another thing that Kazaa may remember that sometimes people may have more altruistic motives. Take for example Seti@home. Millions of people allow SETI to use their computers to analyze data signals for no charge. It might a little more successful if Kazaa allows points to be donated to charities at a higher rate.
Without more details it's hard to say how this system will really work.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
It seems that the second patent was also filed in 1999 so Freenet's CHK might not constitute prior-art after all, however suitable prior art isn't hard to find, for example - 5 minutes of searching revealed this 1997 paper.
Don't you get that spam where they "pay" you a small percentage of a penny for each add you view/email you send?
Maybe they will have some sort of amnesty whereby you can upload all of your unauthorized files to the **AA, no questions asked.
There's rumored to be an free service in the works that makes this even easier: you just share out your hard drives to the **AA and they'll take care of the housecleaning for you.You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
"Math in a song is good."-Linford
It will be interesting to see how this evolves. It appears we are in the midst of a digital revolution very similiar to the industrial revolution not too long ago. We will see many middlemen cut out of the equation and a greater migration of content authors getting closer to their respective audiences. How this all works business-wise will be the toughest part. Everybody is going to need a piece of the pie.
Browse the Information Directory
Just use KazaaLite. And then run Ad-Aware to remove Gator and all the other evil spyware and crap Kazaa installs. Plus, KazaaLite makes you a super user. Supposedly that has benefits...
on the site they state that "Kazaa Media Desktop is not bundled with spyware, and we respect your privacy. See our Privacy Statement for information on our data practices."
i remember something about this not being true. do they lie?
I just don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die.
How about free phone calls, internet, and everything the way it used to be, before the .dot com crash?
Insert Witty Remark Here ===>____________________________
In reading the article, I can't help but wonder if anyone is really foolish enough to trust Kazaa with their money? As an advertiser, I would always wonder if the paid downloads really happened (was it actually a person downloading or a hackering mimicking downloads for cash?)
As a host, I wouldn't put much faith in actually ever receiving cash from the company. Schemes like this tend to have a history of absconding with the cash.
Of course, it would be nice if there were an easy way for college students to make a little bit of cash by selling their school's bandwidth.
Only problem is, iTunes doesn't have a subscription service. That's part of what makes it so nice. Eveyrthing is "pay as you go".
The rewards will range from free access to paid content to sweepstakes entries toward cars and big-ticket cash prizes. The value of the prizes will depend on how many customers Altnet can attract and how much the company can persuade them to offer.
Riiiiight. Thanks but no thanks -- earning access to paid content and the possibility of winning cash prizes isn't enough of a reason to allow BDE to make money using MY hardware and MY connection, whilst potentially affecting the stability of my system. Howzabout I keep on using Kazaa Lite instead?
so, how long do you think it takes before your ISP alters its TOS to make it illegal for you to use your PC for this?
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
I've always found Kazaa slightly disturbing, so I invented the following conspiracy theories about it, using the tried and tested research method of wild conjecture: - 1) Most of the files on Kazaa aren't really transfered peer to peer - there's a huge central repository somewhere of horrible 128kbps quality mp3s full of noise. The noise makes these files sufficiently different from the original songs that Sharman doesn't have to license them. This is why any poor quality songs start downloading instantly, whereas you have to wait approximately forever to find any good quality material. 2) Sharman also regularly publishes versions of it's other popular software package 'Kazaa Lite'. This contains just as much Spyware as standard Kazaa, but it's special 'stealth' Spyware custom written by Sharman. It also crashes randomly. 3) Sharman also publishes 'Diet Kazaa'. This contains twice as much Spyware as either 'Kazaa' or 'Kazaa Lite', and crashes twice as often. However, as a reward, you get a special button that looks like Britney Spears. 4) Any version of Kazaa uses your idle bandwidth and processor power to research dangerous biological toxins and military hardware for the US Department of Defense. Coming soon - the Sharman Tank. 5) Sharman logs all copyrighted files shared over their network, and the users sharing them, so that if they are ever short on money, they can sell the list to the **AA. 6) Sharman is run by a group of aliens, from their spaceship. This is how the company is able to move so swiftly between countries each time legal action threatens.
...because, AFAIK, Kazaa Lite is created simply by taking the original Kazaa and inserting a dummy DLL in place of a certain legitimate one. While I'm sure Kazaa could get trickier with checks to make sure a legit DLL is in place, I have a feeling that reverse engineering will keep pace just fine and Kazaa Lite won't be going anywhere.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
> Only problem is, iTunes doesn't have a subscription service. That's part of what makes it so nice. Eveyrthing is "pay as you go".
Oops, you are correct. What I meant to say is a "pay" server (as in non-free).
Now I get to get paid for distributing looped mp3s instead of just doing it for the fun of it!
That policy is pretty ridiculous. It makes it illegal to sell items on eBay, for instance. I doubt many other ISPs are that bad.
"Where do we send the check?"
Not something I'd want to put in the hand of Sharman. Even if they don't want to disclose info, the *AAs would be lining up to sue for it.
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
Yeah, so people get paid to host files that are legit and authorized...this is excellent! I have no fewer than 4 dusty old machines that want to be paid to distribute! With that said, my regularly used machine can continue sharing the 'fun' stuff.
Is the verification for the user sharing IP based? If so, I know for a fact that Verizon doles out IPs to anyone on a local network that wants one.
In Soviet Russia, Kazaa trades YOU.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
Crime DOES pay!
...but i'm having nightmares about the goatse guy everytime I read /. cant we just implement a filter for goatse somehow ? heck this page is probably getting more hits than cnn.com and the trolls are getting better even setting up mirrors
high participation level lets you get higher priority in queues. (i.e. you get to cut in line if there are people waiting for a file download) this will allow you to download from more sources and therefore get higher transfer rates. it is to encourage and reward sharing of files.
"SET karma whore value 1"
" The company is looking to a new patent license for one new revenue source. It has acquired rights to a 1999 patent that Bermeister says covers the technique of identifying files on peer-to-peer networks using a "hash," or digital fingerprint based on the contents of the file. The company will approach virtually all other peer-to-peer services to seek license rights, Bermeister said." (cnet.com)
this could potentialy be used to fleace/shut down all P2P networks, and what about open source ones (emule and mldonkey?)
for those of you who don't understand file hashing, its the generating of a unique number for a file that is non-forgable, so you are sure your getting what your are sure your downloading....
websites like sharereactor.com and fasttrackmovies.com post "file hashes" of confirmed good files, so you can be sure your not getting a fake on a P2P network, emule, and edonkey, and overnet use the sharereactor system, and fast track movies is used with a program called sig2dat for kazza, also sharezza is capable of useing em all (plus another one called wich name excapes me, some karma whore please post a reply)
come comment on the madness at http://slashdot.org/~phreak03/journal/
Does Madonna and the RIAA start paying me to share her #1 smash hit single "What the Fuck do You Think You're Doing?!?"?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
crack the money piont system and you dont need to host files.. just spoof your pionts and cash the check.
..that it was distributed as a part of the application by the original authors.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
The rewards will range from free access to paid content to sweepstakes entries toward cars and big-ticket cash prizes. The value of the prizes will depend on how many customers Altnet can attract and how much the company can persuade them to offer.
This isn't my idea of being paid to distribute content. In fact, it sounds more like one of those scams where the more you buy (ie. the more free bandwidth you provide) the more "chances to win" you get. Sorry, but "chances to win" just don't cut it when I'm liable to get a bill from my ISP for excess bandwidth.
I can see two incentives that will work:
- Cash on a per-megabyte basis.
- Free downloads of legit MP3s (unencumbered).
So while I think the basic idea paying P2P users to host desire content is good, it sounds to me like they are indeed trying to do it on the cheap, or more like effectively free (having used the unpaid services of the majority who may NOT win any prizes).And isn't "but the artists should get paid!" what anti-piracy efforts are supposedly about? Hey, guys, it works both ways.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The major point of attack thr RIAA and MPAA have on P2P is that they can claim it has no legitimate legal use. This business model presents an entirely legal, moneymaking business model for using peer to peer networks. Its not outlawing piracy and going the way of Napster, its just giving the program a legal use.
-- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
Payola's owned the industry since the dawn of time, and finally the average joe gets their slice of that neverending pie. Hurrah!
Honestly, if they did this, I would download so much of whatever top-50 MTV crap they will pay me for on each computer on my network, then constantly leave Kazaa running, so as to only collect the money. I wont stop trading the illegal stuff, which I rarely do on Kazaa anyways.
I can't believe no one else saw this yet, unless I missed it.
Look at the pay-per-play sites that the labels are running. What do most of them have in common? Okay, besides that.
Windows Media Files and DRM.
Who/what is Kazaa and AltNet working with now?
Microsoft, Windows Media files. Self-destructing?
So Microsoft is playing both ends against the middle. They don't care who wins. They've already bet on both horses.
Some of the privacy and security sites that mention Altnet or the b3d Projector are being sent a document "From Kevin Bermeister" that explains the technology in greater detail. Mostly it is their attempt to get their product delisted from spyware/etc. listings. From the document:
Q: What is the Peer Points Program and how will it be created?
A: In addition to TopSearch, Altnet intends to distribute and use other private peer-to-peer applications. To enable all of Altnet to function, each computer must be equipped with several small software programs including.
Peer Enabler - a peer to peer application that links users together to enable the sharing of authenticated files in a more secure and efficient manner than many existing similar peer to peer applications on the Internet
Download Manager - a browser plug-in that enables a user to download audio and video files from the Altnet P2P network when visiting web sites that support Altnet file downloads on their site.
Peer Points Manager - a system tray application that provide users access to management controls over Peer Enabler file sharing activities and allows Altnet to issue loyalty points to peers (users) who are serving other peers (users) with files that originate with the permission of content owners. Loyalty points can be redeemed for items and prizes from the Peer Points Manager.
Altnet Signing Module - an application that enables Altnet servers to authenticate the volume of files served by a peer to other peers so that loyalty points can be issued to the serving peer in a secure manner.
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Since the announce was rejected by the Slashdot team, it might at least be interesting as a comment on an article on Kazaa: last week, MLdonkey 2.5 has been released. It is the only linux/Mac OS X program with direct access to the Fasttrack network (Kazaa, Imesh,etc). By the way, it has also support for all the other main p2p networks, i.e. Edonkey, Overnet, BitTorrent, Gnutella and Gnutella2, ...
It is open-source (GPL), written in Objective-Caml, and comes with a built-in WEB server and different GUIs.
Holy shit I am going to be rich.
In the US, Nazi propaganda is not illegal, but I believe that making such stuff available to Germans is against German law. There was a US Nazi propagandist that was I think extradited to Germany/fined for hosting Nazi stuff or sending emails making it available to Germans in Germany. So I think that because US people are able to get your ( legal in Germany but illegal in the US ) stuff you could be extradited to the US even if you never set foot in the US.
Eat at Joe's.
Seriously, if you want to limit leaches, you have to charge something. And wouldn't it be neat to set up a huge array of cheap disks and sell the storage for ecash like peer points that could be traded for real stuff like hamburgers. Even if the ecash isn't real cash, if it can be transferred, then it will have a real monetary value. Wouldn't anyone who stores it need banking licenses etc? How would the issuers of this electronic currency be trusted? A Federal Reserve Note is a loan that the US gubmint takes out from the Federal Reserve Bank. It's value is totally based on the trust that the public has that the government will be able to repay it. If the purveyors of a P2P network could mint e-coins at will without any legal obligation, then the temptation for them would be great to tax the network by minting more and more coins. They could sell these coins for real money until the value of everyone's coins would fall. The faster the value fell, the less desireable it would be to leave one's computer running for extended periods to accumulate the rapidly devaluing wealth for one's own use. I wonder how similar economies keep hold of inflation. For instance the site experts-exchange.com sells points but the prices of answers seem to have remained fairly constant. ( I can't remember does expertsexchange lead to a site about expert sex change? )
Eat at Joe's.
Kazaa is old news. Direct Connect has overtaken it. It's a much more decentralised system.
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?