Slashdot Mirror
Truck Stops Get Wireless Internet
Makarand writes "According to SFGate.com, a company called
IdleAire Technologies are building high-tech truck
stops to provide drivers with air-conditioning, television, Internet access
and phone service in truck cabs, so that they can turn off their engines.
Trucks will pull into bays, where flexible tubes ending in vents for hot or cold air, and
touch sensitive screens for Internet access can be pulled inside the truck's cab. There's also a separate wireless Internet option, where drivers don't have to pull into the bays. The basic services provided cost less than the fuel spent in idling a truck."
BigTrux91: "hey, ASL?"
XoRigChikoX: "43/f/truck stop, u?"
BigTrux91: "lol, same"
XoRigChikoX: "im just takin a break, haulin a shipment of lawn chairs from kentucky to los an-ghi-lees"
JenLiveCam9113: "Live sex cams, click here!"
BigTrux91: "wanna cyber?"
XoRigChickoX: "mmm, show me ur exhaust pipe"
BigTrux91: "::steps out of truck, removes pants::"
sorry....
Vonal Declosion
So, in a few years time, if that package you ordered takes a loooong time to get delivered... you know why. The friggin' truck driver is reading /.
So with the wireless access can you use all the trucks on the road as a rolling wireless relay system? If so that would be cool. Sure puts the old CB system to shame.
If Darwin was right, you'd be dead by now.
Wow. That's pretty cool. If a trucker can get internet access, maybe those who are unemployed should look into those trucking schools. Some of the truckers I have heard make $40/hour. Not too shabby.
The system itself works, in some ways, like a car speaker at a drive-in movie theater.
How many people are going to get that reference? The drive-ins have been gone from Eastern PA for around 10+ years now. The cheap porno one was the last to go in this area, and for years before that they broadcast their signal over low power AM.
Boy, am I feeling old right now.
I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people. - Jack Handey
How much to just park a big cardboard box next to a tube?
The local Flying J's truckstop has been advertising wireless access for about a month - I don't think it has the a/c stuff set up - no bays. At any rate, are there really that many truckers hauling around laptops?
And all the Slashdot truck drivers rejoice!
(I've been a truck driver, but I don't think there's many of us here)
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Damn that driver.
I bet he is watching porn again.
Get on the move, man.
how much it costs to run one of those engines per hour? fuel wise, obviously the real cost would depend on the cost of fuel.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Saw a "Flying J" truckstop advertising on its big flashy sign "high-speed wireless internet" ... I woulda pulled out my Zaurus and checked it out (possibly it's something like what T-Mobile does with Starbucks?), but well, you know. That whole driving bit.
Mike.
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
Here's a mirror of the article in case it gets slashdotted.
Actually, I'm not surprised.
1. More and more truckers are using satelite based tracking and communication systems. (Mostly trucking companies, not individual owner/operators, I think). Theses systems tend to be laptop based.
2. Cheap and easy way to keep in touch with your loved ones and manage your life while on the road.
Many truckers keep in touch with family by e-mail. It is also a way to get traffic information, etc.
You don't have to be a geek to read e-mail, use IM or browse the web in your off time. Just look at how many people AOL has signed up.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
$62.50 ... duno if that was to fill up both tanks or not.
Hm, not much more than filling up a Hummer, eh?
How much per hour, though... duno.
Mike.
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
IANATD, but I think the one thing I'd be worried about as a truck driver is getting some sleep, moreso than getting online.
To me it just seems pretty economical and safer to just get a hotel room, grab some sleep, and a nice warm shower.
Hey just me, but this seems like a good idea, but truck drivers pull off to rest stops to pee, get some caffiene, or because they're exhausted. They go to bars and strip clubs for entertainment.
that was meant to be a joke ...
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
a few truck companies already have a basic wireless internet setup, its a small blackberry like device that only communicates with the head office, lets truckers email friends and famly, and basic text based web. It can be used about everyware from truck stops to rest sites
Moist towelettes.
Always remember the cleanup. A truckerâ(TM)s good clean grip is important for safety for all drivers on the road.
Good, now truck drivers can run Windows Update for their Navitron Overdrives (semi-obscure Simpsons reference).
Top 10 Uses for Internet at Truckstops
#10 IM'ing the "ol' lady" back home in the trailer park.
#9 IM'ing the "ol' lady" at the next trailer park up the road.
#8 Checking if bobshaircuts.com in Topeka will treat your mullet with respect.
#7 pr0n, pr0n, pr0n!
#6 Ordering cigarettes from marlborough.com.
#5 Ordering beer from schlitz.com
#4 Getting refill blades from hairybackrazors.com
#3 Ordering truckstop hookers.
#2 Checking subscription at maxim.com
drum roll
#1 Checking the NRA homepage!
Trolling is a art,
...and touch sensitive screens for Internet access can be pulled inside the truck's cab... Guess that puts the truck stop girls out of a job, of one sort or another.
-Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat-
There going to provide HVAC, internet and telephone for what it takes to idle the truck?
When I drove, It cost about 2gal for the night of idling, Around here thats less than $3. Not much room for profit and maintance.
On top of that its not going to work well in the midwest winters. Drivers dont have another 2hours to warm up the engine when its real cold outside.
So now they have to idle all night as well as pay the network fee.
hmmm...
Have you been at a large truckstop recently? Nothing like about 20-30 engines running overnight while the truckers sleep inside their cabs. I believe I just heard an old naked american-indian stop crying.
.. but with 22 locations listed on their website, only 6 of them are active. I suppose its great for truckers who have to drive through those areas, but it is far from being a widely accepted thing. For this to expand across the country, there are enormous costs involved in purchasing/leasing land, buildings, and the networking equipment.
I'm sure cisco and intel would be more then happy to throw in some discounted equipment, but just building out each location can be very expensive, all to make $1.25 an hour? You'll need at least 4 people staying there all night just to be able to staff the location with a minimum wage employee.
Sounds great in theory, but where does the profit come from?
http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/hd_061003.html
wolruf@gmail.com
Get a brain before you post.
a truck stop.
Yes I am !!
Well I would be quite alarmed if truck drivers actually carried laptops with them, once their hooked on solitare imagine all the accidents they are going to cause. Furthermore how many computer literate truck drivers do you know?!
The Air conditioning and other basic services provided are great but WiFi?
Wouldn't hotspot operators make more money hooking up city centres and football grounds?
I am quite alarmed about these "gas stations" that are accessible to computer operators such as yourselves. Once you're hooked on travelling around, imagine how mant accidets you are going to cause. Furthermore, how many excellent driving geeks do you know?
I'm happy you have a/c and basic utilities in your house, but gas and your own transportation? Wouldn't gas station operators make more money hooking up only truck stops and fleet maintenance yards?
It was on slow AOL that worked like hell
With a sysadmin pullin' logs
Cab-over Pete with a reefer on
And Jimmy, both bandwidth hogs
We's headin' for bear on Tee-One-Oh
'bout a mile outta Cupertino
I says "Pigpensource, this here's Cyber Duck"
"And I'm about to plug the USB, you know?"
('cause we got a little ole convoy networkin' thru the night)
(Yeah, we got a little ole convoy, ain't she a beautiful sight?)
(Come on and join our convoy, ain't nothin' gonna get in our way)
(We gonna roll this truckin' convoy 'cross the USA)
(Convoy)
By the time we got into Tulsa-town we had 85 trucks they say
But they's a roadblock up on the cloverleaf
With Hillary from the RIAA
Cuz Pete used his hard disk as an MP3 dumper
They even had a bear in the air
I says "Callin' all trucks, this here's the Duck"
"We about to go a-huntin' bear"
ye, 'bye
"
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Some of us are *gasp* old enough to have actually attended a drive-in movie! :)
I got that reference, but it is odd to think that there are probably millions of people out there now who never would, and probably never will...
yes, but do they have pull-thru's?
You have got to be kidding me. I seriously doubt it takes the equivalent of 2k miles of driving to start the damn truck. Got any facts to back this up?
You've got to be kidding, right? 2,000 miles of driving?
If not, please provide a reference.
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!
Ahh, I was thinking of changing my sig to this exact same thing! Weird Al is a genius among men, not just French people. And lucky me, my fiancee bought us tickets to see him in concert this sunday at CalPoly. Woo! Just thought I'd share that with you.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
LOL. equal to 2000 miles of driving? So they have full tanks, start the truck, and are empty again?
I may be an anonymous coward, but christ at least I don't spout pure BS.
Those who know, post.
Those who don't, post AC.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
"Cyber Duck" should have been "Rubber Tux". The singer is C.W. Mc Cray.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Company to Deploy Docking Stations for Trucks
Next they need these at their homes so they need never leave thier trucks.
A few drive ins still exist in colorado, one in my hometown (Montrose) and one here in my school town (Fort Collins). I'm sure there are a few others.
Oh, and both do the radio thing, and the speaker-on-a-wire thing.
My gf from chicago is always excited to go to the drive in... they do provide a pretty neat environment.
And I'm (only?) 22, so don't feel too old, I concider myself young and still remember them well.
no comment
I call B.S. on that. Sounds *way* too much like a rather boring urban legend. Cite?
Truck drivers, internet, porn and touch sensitive screens, need I say more?? Hope they have a "sneeze guard" IYKWIM
So while wireless internet may be a "value add", I don't see the bays being used by long distance OTR drivers, unless things have changed.
Wrong. The engine idles to provide AC/heat and any various electronics needed (alarm clock, charge a cell phone, whatever) without draining the battery. 2,000 miles? Not at all, starting those engines requires a prime (just enough gas to get the cylinders wet) and a spark. The spark is what may be missing if the engine doesn't idle all night.
The basic services provided cost less than the fuel spent in idling a truck.
I was always told that the biggest reason the trucks idle all the time is the largest part of wear and tear on the truck is in starting and shutting off.
Sorry, informative moderation or not, this flat out isn't true.
Here is a link to another article on the exact same technology with more numbers on costs and savings.
lysergically yours
2,000 miles eh? So while starting the truck, they have to refill the tanks several times?
...
so they can go in the back trailer and, and um... surf with privacy.
If I remember correctly, this was described almost the same way in Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" - though I forget the name of the make- believefranchise. This is the spread of the "techno-sprawl" into middle America. Pretty soon every franchise will let you get into the net (Free .5 hour of wireless with your big mac). I'm not sure if truck-drivers are the key demographic, but the question is what else can that infrastructure be leveraged for
2,000 mi / 10 mpg = 200 gallons of gas to start a truck.
Uh, yeah, sure.
Let me guess. You're one of those people who doesn't turn their monitor off at night because it draws more power at startup, right?
(And while we're at it, can you fuckazoids turn off your power-hungry OpenGL screensavers? Please?)
...that "lot lizards" will become a thing of the past? Why should truck drivers pay scraggly women who hang out at truck stops for services when they can get much better looking pr0n without leaving the driver's seat? Will they include a tube for restroom facilities, or at least a box of tissues for cleanup afterwards?
Diesel engines don't use spark plugs, they use compression (and a glow plug).
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
They may want to include wetnaps to wipe off the keyboard after the truckers are done.
An interesting discussion about Truck-Stop Electrification in order to reduce the envrinmental impact of idling.
Umm, I doubt it. Say a truck gets 10mpg (probably high) that's 200 gallons just to start the thing. I don't see firetrucks idling 24/7, as I'm sure they would if that were the case.
Truck Stops Get Wireless Internet
Translation:
Truckers to get wireless access to pr0n in the comfort of their own cab
Part of why truck drivers leave their trucks running is because it is a real pain in the ass trying to start a large diesel engine. Diesel needs a lot of compression and high temperature to ignite. This is why you never hear of diesel spill fires -- diesel won't burn at atmospheric pressure at ambient temperature.
The vapor temperature is about 150 degrees Farenheit, it's ignition temperature for liquid is about 450 degrees Farenheit at 1 atmosphere. The vapor point allows the vapors to burn quickly causing a flash but diesel can't sustain combustion. So to burn diesel as a fuel you need a lot of heat or a lot of pressure (see Chuck's Law -- P=k*T)
When it is cold it is really difficult to start a diesel engine. This is why people with diesel engines get electric engine heaters installed.
This is a really cool idea, but I doubt many truck drivers would turn off their engines, especially if it is cold outside. So this really won't be a cost saver for most trucking companies. As such, I doubt many trucking companies will spend money for this service as there data needs are quite minimal and there are more than adequate satellite data services already available for routing and driver auditing that are accessible anywhere in the country -- not just at truck stops.
This will be nothing more than a drive by porn d/l sight for the truck drivers. And many Flying J's are already offering internet access already anyway so whats the point?
Truckers leave their engines running because turning big diseal engines on and off a lot causes maintnence problems. The expansion and contraction of the engine parts may cause them to crack. The cost of fueling an idle truck outweighs the cost of maintnence incurred by frequent heating and cooling.
Not to much
A 1200 RPM idling diesel with 30 bhp/hour will only use about 2.25 gallons of diesel. And even for this example it would be running a refrigeration unit on the trailor. The average rig uses around 1.2 gallons/hour.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
It sounds like you fell for a line. Starting a truck doesn't waste much fuel. In fact, "fuel consumption during engine start-up is equivalent to about 30 seconds of engine idling."
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
The amount of fuel needed to start the truck is about the equivelent of 2,000 miles of driving.
Are you on drugs? what kind? because to make that statement you must be on some really good ones.
A generic Semi truck get's on average 5.9 miles to the gallon of fuel.
so you are tellimg me that the truck needs to ingest 338 gallons of fuel to start????
Sorry to tell you but that is more than the capacity of most trucks have in fuel.
Dont know what world you live in, but it's not reality.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
IANATDE, but I don't think they sleep in hotel rooms all the time. That is why the cabs on their trucks are so big - they have beds in them. Bars and strip clubs for entertainment? How about emailing your family and friends? Or instant messaging with your wife and kids? Or reading the news, doing some online banking, shopping, checking the weather for their trip, or any of the other hundreds of things that are possible? Anything that would offer them a little break from driving would be good. Why shouldn't they have the opportunity to access the internet if it is available?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
In cold weather, diesel engines need to be kept warm, or they won't start again until spring. So, part of the reason they are never shut off is so that the truck can continue running that winter.
I suspect that most modern semi/long haul rigs are fairly efficient beasts anyway. A better effort would be directed at cleaning up the emissions from short haul/local trucks. Get behind a dump truck at a stop light sometime, watch the black cloud that it belches out as it gets under way. Multiply that time 1000+ stoplights and you'll see how much pollutuon those trucks pump out.
There are still a few left, you know.
And, for the benefit of those of you who don't live in PA, look here.
Since people are questioning my numbers, I've done some research to back up my statements.
According to a bulletin published by the EPA in 2002, newer diesel engines consume significantly less fuel on startup. When I was told of the startup problems many years ago, starting an engine was absolute hell on it so truckers avoided it whenever possible. With the newer engines, idling is actually worse for it. According to the EPA starting a modern diesel engine consumes as much fuel as 30 seconds of idling.
I'm trying to find when this changed, because older engines (older being the word in question) were better off idling all night than being turned off and restarted. If I can dig up the documentation I'm looking for, I'll post links here.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
you can now see live webcam streams of blowjobs?
wrong idling thread.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
For the original, it is McCall. For this one, it is Mc Cray. I don't think Mr Fries would admit having anything to do with it.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Especially on a heavy load. And then ome of the drivers do all sorts of illegal shit to their trucks to make them perform better (carry heavier loads at higher speeds).
I am not saying the parent poster is right, but I do know that truck drivers do tend to leave their trucks idling overnight. The main reason a lot of truck drivers do this is so they can keep their trucks cools and power things like their microwaves and electric appliances.
Keeping your truck running in idle is also hard as hell on your engine and still burns about a gallon or so an hour.
This sounds like a feature that one of these top ten truck stops already has, or better, if it wants to stay on that list!
I know that I'm glad these truckers are getting a little pampering...God knows how many goods in the United States are shipped via the big rigs...thanks truckers!
You're not going to be able to back up the 2,000 miles worth of fuel statement, no matter how much research you do.
Maybe you're thinking of that big vehicle they use to ferry the space shuttle from the Assembly Building to the launch pad.
...
Cool. All they need is the iLoo, and you'd be all set. 8-)~
Sorry, but I already patented that idea and sold the rights to SCO. Whoever proposed this idea must have had access to the OpenTruck source code and cut & pasted the proprietary code into the IdleAire business plan.
</sarcasm>
Or perhaps the space shuttle itself...
Years ago, I was told that the reason for leaving the engine idling was that the big diesels were far too difficult to start up cold.
This might not be an issue on modern trucks tho, but I remember driving an old (1985, but well maintained) diesel pickup that was a bitch to start up cold. Some mornings I'd just leave the glow spark (or whatever it's called) on for some minutes before trying.
(what! no Jimmy Hoffa jokes yet??)
No sig
There ya go.
...
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
You mean to tell me that a 290lb trucker with a dragon tatoo on his back, a well groomed mullet, and a girlfriend named Candy in each Flying J accross the midwest will have broadband WiFi before I do?
WTF?!?!
yeh, if your idea of a good job is working 20 hour days cracked out on meth, keeping 2 books and being on the road for months at a time, its great
Sounds like some of the road-warrior types I've met in recent years...
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
2000/6mpg=333 gallons.Normal over the road truck carries 200 gallons.Redo the math!
Amigian and proud of it!
Wireless access.. 8+ hours uninterrupted.
Fine, its a rolling lifestyle, and they tend to live in the truck, but you get to see new faces, and they get a lot of funky technology..
Anyone remember the simpsons episode with the truckers? Hehe...
A good way to be 5 feet above other peasants on the road...
Obviously it seemd good from the outside- are there any real truckers on slashdot who would like to comment?
Anyway - I think we could soon see top of the range inner city cars with wifi (if they arent available already). It makes a lot of sense - like a wifi based map system and a GPS or something..
OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
I have actually seen this setup since a friend of mine is one of their programmers... heck if i was a trucker this would rock. Slick touch screen running on 64 flashram with linux as the backbone. Really sweet if you ask me.
The appropriate term is "A Beowulf cluster of trucks".
:D
Can you imagine it?
And those who think they know, but are actually full of shit, post as Lxy
This community of PAYING users probably stands a greater chance of advancing the widespread deployment of public access hotspots than any other. They actually NEED the access it provides, and are willing to pay for it.
Maybe he means 20 miles.
You don't get much news do you?
A lot of truckers forge their records so they can drive longer hours, this has been listed as a contributing factor in many fatal accidents... Next time you are driving down the interstate and see an open weigh station, try to remember if you saw a line of trucks on a ramp before that one. The line is full of truckers cooking their books to make it look like they slept enough...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I used to have a dozen drivers on payroll and I used independents and, while my hourly guys kept their books in order and never broke the law, I knew for a fact that the independent guys used to do all sorts of illegal shit just to make a living. From hauling extra-heavy loads to driving for 16 hours straight.
Let me guess, your brother works hourly for a company?
If you read the fucking article, you would know that Bubba isn't going online while he's driving.
Fucktard. Asshat.
Yes, it uses a lot of fuel to start them and warm them up to the point where you would want to drive them, and it doesn't use all that much (relative to a 150 gallon tank) to idle them, but I don't think it takes 2000k mi worth of fuel to start them. 20 miles? Maybe. 2000? no way.
This space intentionally left blank
and the driver may use a buttplug, too.
Read all the replies to your message. I would hope that the math alone would prove to you that you're wrong. MAYBE the number was something like 2 miles worth of fuel when starting, but there's no way your original numbers were right.
Convoy 2003 continued:
"So we shot the line, we went for broke, with a Beowulf cluster of trucks.
And eleven long-haired Friends of Stallman in a chartreuse iMac running Linux" Convoy....
Breaker Breaker Rubber Tux. Yeah? etc etc etc.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
If you could build a semi that got 10 mpg, you'd be richer than Bill.
Most trucks get about 4.5 to 5, maybe 5.5 if they are running downhill in gear.
I bet Microsoft will now see this as a new market to go after. The Rev A iLoo didn't take off (hm, was it REALLY a joke or was it a test...?), but now they see the trucker demand and the Trucker iLoo is born!
Either that or MS will buy all the Interstates from the government.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Glow plug is only there for starting, once the cylinder warms, they shut off...
Gee .. and lets see here ...
.. we need a fuel pump that can do 608,400 Gallons/hour!!!! Or at least one with "burst mode" that can do 10,140 Gallons/Minute
338 Gallons to start the rig
2 seconds start time (guesstamation)
So
Ok so lets visualize this. Take four fire trucks pumping 2500 gallons/minute (thats a lot of water). Now take those four trucks filled with diesel and pumping with all that force for 2 seconds into the block.
That is the force you would need to get enough fuel to start a semi.
Don't think so.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
It sounds like these guys have a pretty good hook with heating and cooling. As a broad demographic, most truckers are not very technically sophisticated. This is starting to change but I believe only 30% actually use a PC. As you would expect, those who do use newer technologies are younger or have been exposed to them by large carrier fleets they work for forcing them to learn.
Every carrier and trucker is looking to save money. Every truckstop is looking for ways to get truckers to stop. So I think if these guys can deliver, they'll do fine. They will have to install a good number of locations before it makes sense for large carriers to sign contracts.
Yes, I write code for this industry.
A 1200 RPM idling diesel with 30 bhp/hour will only use about 2.25 gallons of diesel. And even for this example it would be running a refrigeration unit on the trailor. The average rig uses around 1.2 gallons/hour.
You ALMOST sound like you know what you're talking about. Too bad that 1200 RPM is WAY WAY WAY over any kind of idle on a diesel.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Now if you'll excuse me, i have to help a beautiful hooker with a heart of gold expose the corrupt mayor that kidnapped her daughter, with the help of an adorable chinese boy we found on the street.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
1. Many on-highway heavy duty vehicles already have wireless email. The big trucking companies rely on a Qualcomm satellite system to track and communicate with vehicles (they can even run remote diagnostics.)
.1 mpg per truck doesn't sound like much; try going from 6.0 mpg to 5.9 mpg with 3000 trucks, each truck drives 150,000 miles per year, diesel fuel is 1.50/gal.
2. The average idle time for a heavy duty diesel vehicle in the U.S. is right around 40%. Not kidding.
3. Said vehicle consumes about 1 gal/hr while idling.
3. May OTR vehicles have a device known as optimized idle (OI). Say you want to sleep in your deluxe 84 inch Peterbilt cab with the TV, microwave, and deluxe sound system. OI will start the engine everytime your cab temp drops below 68 degrees, everytime your engine temp (oil or coolant, you pick) drops below a set parameter and warms up the cab or engine etc.
4. Most trucking companies not involved in long haul limit idle time, engine will shut off after a specified idle interval (usually 5 - 10 minutes). This prevents drivers from leaving the engine running while eating dinner, visiting that out of state girlfriend etc.
5. Big trucking companies are all about FUEL ECONOMY. Saving
1. Reduce Idle time.
2. Save fuel.
3. ????
4. Profit!!!
Encouraging truckers to shut down their engines during their downtime has to reduce air pollution considerably. I once drove a diesel van from DC to Iowa and back with a friend. We stopped to sleep at a truck stop in Ohio. After about 1/2 hour we had to leave the truck stop because we couldn't breathe. The fumes from all the idling trucks were beyond belief.
I don't know how the truckers can stand it. Maybe their insides are so well coated with truck-stop food grease that the fumes couldn't get through.
No sig? Sigh...
A big benefit in pollution reduction there, I'd think...
(Score:-1, Informative)
I am going to bookmark that one right under the time i got (Score:+5, Troll).
A 1200 RPM idling diesel with 30 bhp/hour will only use about 2.25 gallons of diesel. And even for this example it would be running a refrigeration unit on the trailor. The average rig uses around 1.2 gallons/hour.
Actually, the reefer units on the front of the trailers have thier own 3cyl diesel engine and own fuel supply.
They are quite self-contained. This is why you will see a trailer sitting all by itself but you can certainly hear the refrigeration unit going.
ALL diesel engines have glowplugs to help warm the combustion chamber when the engine is cold. In cold climates, block heaters are used. I've never seen a large diesel truck have problems starting up. It's not like you have to pump the accelerator to get it to start! Special fuel blend is also used in cold areas.
Cold startup of any engine with the lack of oil pressure causes the most wear. Idling a diesel means it's always at operating temperature and you eliminate the thermal cycling which causes wear. Its also means that heat and AC is available and with the cost per hour of idling, I'd say most truckers just leave it running for that reason.
-- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
Who else would be demanding wireless internet from a truck cab?!?
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
You have no idea how much truckers benefit from laptops and GPS systems!!!
Peace,
Pen
Looks like this might put a dent in the ladies incomes....
Mis-conception #1 - Trucks (diesel) idle due to the nature of their engine; needs long cool down period before re-starting, exact opposite of "normal" gasoline powered engines.
Mis-conception #2 - Energy savings? Add up the internet connection costs, bandwidth usage, increased electricity bills, installation costs, maintenance costs (network geeks aren't cheap) etc etc. I truly doubt any energy is saved. just moved around a bit.
--
"Fatal error huh!? I'll show you a fucking fatal error!" as Bubba pulls out the sawed off 12 gauge.
I worked on this project.
Yes, the service module (the thing you stick in your cab window) is built atop a roll-your-own Linux implementation. The enclosure is novel (in order to handle air conditioning/heating/other services, but the boards are primarily off-the-shelf.
In our research, not many truckers have laptops and those that do rarely have ethernet (most use dialup). The system is capable of handling web-browsing entirely via touchscreen, but this was not implemented for some reason.
"You have liberated me from thought."
Besides, diesels idle very efficiently (if a little noisy). I'd be surprised if they used more than 1 gal/hr.
And as things get cold, you need to worry more about the battery. Battery electric blankets are essential around -40.
I work for a trucking company in Milwaukee WI, and oddly enough I was talking to one of the O/O's about this very thing last week!
Almost all of the O/O's that come in here have either laptop's or even some have full desktop computers set up in their trucks and use them all the time. Several of them have said the heat/ac isn't the big deal - the phone and internet access is wonderful since that allows them to keep in touch with family/friends while on the road. It also keeps them occupied during down time.
BTW - O/O = Owner/Operator
on meth, I don't spend time "sleeping" or "resting" or "bathing" or "thinking". I keep driving. There's always tomorrow to slip into that nice peaceful coma.
I'm laughing pretty hard at all these junior high school science class explanations of how diesel engines work, and even harder at the attempts to explain the trucking business!
It is true that diesels are hard to start when it's cold, particularly older ones. But it's definatly not difficult when it's not cold, and newer engines have block heaters and fuel system heaters which allow normal starts below 0F. More significant is that diesels don't produce full power until warmed up, and they take a long time to do that when it's cold. Again, newer engines are much better in this respect. Another issue is cooling down properly after a long, hard climb, which can take an hour of idling or more. So yes, truckers must *occasionally* keep their motors running for these reasons.
More likely, though, is that they're running their engines for generator power, so they can run their microwave ovens, televisions, and yes, laptops. Truckers also like to sleep warm like everyone else, and their cab heaters run off their engines just like the ones in your car.
This pollutes a lot, but not as much as you might think. Diesels burn *very* little fuel at idle.
But put a lot of them in one place, and they can create quite a cloud. The noise is a problem too, particularly if the truckstop isn't in the middle of nowhere. So the authorities are cracking down, and the solution is to provide auxiliary plug-in power at truckstops, like RV parks do. Truckers can then run their appliances, use electric cabin heaters, and use block heaters to keep their engines warm at night -- without worrying about keeping their batteries charged.
But what happens when they're away from a truckstop with power? Well, newer trucks are being equipped with small auxiliary diesel generators, like those used in boats and RVs. (Many cabs are a lot like RVs.) These generators run quietly and produce much less pollution. And believe it or not, even fuel cells are being developed for this application.
And yes, truckers *do* use laptops, and the internet, extensively. This is not news -- truckers were some of the earliest of early adopters. Slashdotters marvel at the logistics/IT of companies like Fedex, but assume the rest of the transportation industry is still in the stone age. This is absurd. Besides personal communication and entertainment, the 'net has become a business necessity for truckers -- they're plugged into giant databases of goods that need to be moved, and bid for jobs as they go. Not to mention using computers for everyday business needs like the rest of us do -- bookkeeping, word processing, document management, etc. Keep in mind that a very high percentage of truckers are independent businessmen, franchisees, or small operators with a few trucks. Having access to the same technology as the big boys, at very low cost, is what allows them to compete at all.
Just north of Allentown, PA there are two drive-ins open!
Becky's Drive-In
http://www.beckysdi.com
(watched 2 Fast 2 Furious there a couple of weeks ago, listened to FM stereo sound on radio)
Shankweiler's
http://www.shankweilers.com
I don't think it takes 2000k mi worth of fuel to start them
:D
So now the number is up to 2 million miles? No wonder we are running out of oil
Just out of wondering, who do you think has a guaranteed $70,000 job, that can't be shipped overseas?
:. But anyhow, I'm off in Lithuania, and was at a relative's farm, and saw what was going on there.
Slashdot readers?
Well, some of them, I'm sure, do. But you get my point.
Put to just push it for a bit more interesting, I might mention that I have an aerospace engineering degree. Didn't make the conversion to a job in the field, because of the '92 NASA layoffs
While I was there, they replaced a blade on the tractor's motor. It didn't fit, so they identified the problem, pulled the old connector from the broken blade, used a grinder to grind the rivets off, pulled out a punch and pushed them the rest of the way out, pulled out some new rivets, and with their anvil attached the old connector to the new blade right there. Within 2 hours the tractor was running -- and that two hours included lunch [with country deworming medicine at the end: schnapps].
I came back, impressed that he was more of an engineer than I ever will be. He lives it. Spoke to my Dad about it, and he said "Yeah, farmers have to be engineers, or the work doesn't get done. As for your degree, well, people teach you to do what they do. You were taught how to be a university professor, not how to be an engineer."
As far as getting a good job and making a living, even when I was in my 1st year after college I was convinced that the Vo-Tech students were smarter. Now I'm beginning to be convinced that all of us 'techies' have been suckered...
We don't need more techies. We need more lawyer-vikings. We need more doctors. We need more politicians. We need more bosses, maybe, especially hospital directors. We need more patent attorneys.
Or maybe we just need more farmers, with their own working farms.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Okay has a former Trucker (on sabatical as a "Production Manager/Senior Tech" right now) Many drivers have laptops probably ~50% nowadays.
... and most dinners at truck stops have free local phone for an AOL hook-up.
.. quite well in fact.)) or some deliveries take many hours to off load (amount or dificulty of unloading the goods (I did haul brunswick pool tables at one point, took awhile to get all the slate off at some stops).)
1. Park-N-View gives phone based internet support at truck stops for $25 a month, has for 5 years now
2. Most trucks idle in a rest area/truck stop for 2 hours (fuel, wash, and eat)the rest of the idle time is at a dock delivering the goods. (hard finding parking spaces at night for a semi but a first thing in the morning delivery stop will 90% of the time have an empty dock for a tired driver to sleep in for the night(YES I did sleep in New York city
3. Of 5 trucks I have driven the average is 1 gallon diesel to 2 hours idling so 15 hours is 8 gallons of diesel, 8 gals times $1.50 (high Chicago price right now) is $12 so the $3 for a day is an okay deal provided the truck restarts. However $12 is a great deal due to the $200 bill if the truck won't restart (the $200 bill is for a mechanic to come out to you, as a min. bill- just getting out of his truck next to your semi). with a TV, a refigerator, a cell phone, and CB equipment being standard on a rig. The motor is giving power for it all, no motor and the batteries will be dead from all the toys draining electricity. Many companies just let it run and write the cost off as a tax credit/insurance due to the simple fact if it's running it ain't broke, and they can fix it at their terminal for a lot less.
Unless you mean that we need more of them with the sense of farmers and truckers.
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
I can keep one book, on the road, but at that I'm all over the road, so I only do it when it's a really good book. I can't *ever* read two books at the same time, much less while driving. How do they do it?
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Just a couple of notes to set the record straight.
1.) Average truck MPG currently in our fleet is 5.45 MPG
2.) Our calculations estimate that the average hour of idling takes about 1 gal of fuel. DOE figures estimate the cost of fuel for period ending 6/16 as $1.43 gal.
3.) 1/3 of our drivers carry personal laptop computers.
4.) Over 3/4 of our drivers use or have used email when at home.
5.) Qualcom (the satellite communication option mentioned by someone) is expensive...check that...beyond expensive. Most plans have a kb charge associated with data transfer.
6.) While wear and tear of an engine is an issue, our current experience with the usage of idle-air is that it's a bit pricey for our units to use every night.
We are actually currently dealing with an owner-operator (truck driver who owns his truck but hauls cargo for our company)who will go over 50+ miles out of route just to stop at an idle-air truckstop when he is near one.
There is a big opportunity for a large-scale wireless provider to make inroads into truckstops, and major shipping and receiving centers. As a developer in the trucking industry, the #1 problem that we fight from a software development perspective is connectivity into our headquarters.
Wireless phone providers advertise âoedata solutionsâ, but having investigated most of those claims, the connections are only available in large metro areas, and poorly supported.
Weâ(TM)re closely watching the developments in wireless Internet at truckstops. If this becomes a widely available option and is relatively hassle-free to connect (can we hard code one connection profile for all sites), then weâ(TM)ll most likely utilize it.
The connection issue is going to be a sticky oneâ¦Itâ(TM)s not like we have CNEâ(TM)s in the cab.
Just my $0.02
Wow, you're right on a technicality. Does that feel good?
To get away from pure science, diesel will burn in normal, everyday conditions.
(1) Look at pr0n ;-)
(2) Check to see if their hand-knitted scarves and hats are selling well on eBay
(3) Use online personals to find their next 'victim'.
(4) Play Quake
(5) Take their drivers license renewal tests online
(6) Download trucking songs from Kazaa
(7) Complain to congress via email about the state of the roads
(8) Net2Phone with their mom
... to your new career
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
Most US drivers are paid by the mile. Right now I think most are getting about $0.37/mile. So if they can manage 80mph they earn about $30/hour. Owner/operators get paid more, but you have to buy the tractor (somewhere between 1/4 to $1 million US), and pay for the repairs which usually includes an engine rebuild each year.
Two sets of books are used because drivers are limited to driving no more than 10 hours/day, or if they have traffic problems about 650 miles per day. Drivers fake their books to drive more miles to earn more money, also your log book can be used to give you a speeding ticket. If you log that you drove 800 miles in ten hours and the speed limit is 65 then officer friendly will give you a ticket.
Now if you thill think this is "Not too shabby", remember that you spend your days being bounced down the road, not sitting in your comfortable chair, and dining on the finest food available at two in the moring at a truck stop. You sleep in your truck, because most of the hotels that let you park are hooker havens and the management will open your door to let in the thieves, The room have more roaches (of the six legged version) then you even want to think about. The joy of waking up to something walking across your neck is priceless.
I wouldn't do that job for $40/hour.
But hey, they're using laptops, folks -- there ought to be a market out there for self-cooking swindle sheet software for truckers. Just remember, you read it on /. first!
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
The point is, that the government -- perhaps at the behest of doctor and lawyer groups, perhaps not -- has said "we need more programmers", "we need more engineers", "we definitely need *fewer* lawyers", "we don't need so many doctors", for a good economy.
But they then go and pass all kinds of laws and programs and regulations that make it next to impossible for people in the "needed" groups to live, or even to work. Meanwhile, they go and make it easy to sue for overly large penalties, easy for patent mills to get stupid patents and keep others from working, and so on...
So in an economic sense, it's clear that we must need more patent attorneys, more lawyers, definitely more stupid management that can't keep contracts 9/5, has to push for 12/7.
Of course, this is the path to ruin.
The alternative would be for all these lawyers, politicians, and so on to give up their jobs and go and actually earn their bread. In which case we need more farmers.
So it's kindof one or the other. Either, we need more lawyers and pols -- or we need more farmers and real engineers. But no more of this nonsense of suckering people into being farmers so that we can rip them off and steal everything they have and have a good lifestyle, while their pay for earning our bread is that they get to starve and stress themselves to death.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
"Or maybe we just need more farmers, with their own working farms."
We'd have them, too, if it were possible to operate a farm without being forced to pay taxes in Federal Reserve Notes. They don't grow from the ground. So the only way to live as a farmer is to sell your farm to Archer Daniels Midland and/or Monsanto, and then work for them, if they have a job for you.
I can grow enough wheat and other grains and vegetables on my land to feed a family and have a surplus. What I cannot do is grow a marketable quality or quantity of food -- which means I could NOT sell my produce even if I were so inclined, and most importantly it means that I could not make enough money by selling my produce to pay the taxes on the land. So instead, I work as a software developer in another state, while my farm grows nothing but weeds, and sits neglected. On the other hand, the taxes are "cheap" from this end.
If I could go and live there, and grow my own food without having to ALSO work at some regular paying job in order to get Federal Reserve Notes with which to pay taxes, I would.
those pigheaded truckers will quit illegally using 10M SSB rigs and crapping all over amateur radio bands...
ROFL!!!! 2,000 miles? The distance from Washington, DC to Las Vegas? That post made me laugh harder than I've laughed in a couple days. Even though you probably just made a typo, I couldn't have made a funner post if I had tried.
Not only is that a common myth, but it is 100% backwards. It is harder on those diesel engines to let them idle than to start them. Modern diesel engines are so efficent that when ideling they do not generate enough heat to keep the engine warm, a cold diesel engine is a polutining diesel engine, and worse than that for the engine, the soot that would burn in a warm engine collects inside the engine shortening the life of the engine.
However truckers typically get 500,000 miles out of an engine before they consider it broken in, and this never shutting it off, so the difference isn't all that significant in their minds. What they do notice is that diesel engines are very hard to start. They also notice that their air condidtioning or heater doesn't work unless the engine is on, and that is more important to the driver that engine life or fuel useage. To the company owners it is a different matter though, and to encourage the truckers to not idle the engine all night the comptuer holds them to 55mph unless they are getting 7 mpg or better. (works out to a couple hours in the morning, and the drivers are paid by the mile so that difference hits them in the wallet)
Sure that was the case in the old days. However modern diesels have things like glow plugs to get them warm enough to start, ether (starting fluid) injection, or engine heaters.
Note that last winter I had to start a diesel when it was -15F, and without any of the above I got it started. The battery was big enough that we could crank it for half an hour, and eventially it started. Most people just consider 30 minutes longer than they are willing to wait to start an engine. (since my other option was carrying 50 sheets of plywood across the street by hand I had pleny of patience)
when you can't find a job programming any more and have to drive trucks, you will still be able to /.
Perhaps he was confusing it with battery usage, the old "one start needs 30 mins driving to recharge the battery" rule. Don't know how much truth is in that one either, but at least it's backed up by high-school physics.
But then who would pay to send the children of people who don't own property to school? Certainly not the parents. The poor things, we shouldn't burden them with that. So we'll burden you! You must pay taxes on your land, otherwise you're a drain on society sitting there minding your own business and supporting your family with your own hard work.
We can't allow you to live unfettered, giving your family an example of good work ethic and the kind of supportive base that will allow them to nurture their talents. That kind of thinking doesn't belong in a free^H^H^H^Hsocialist society.
</sarcasm>
Seriously though, I'm right there with you.
It seems the truck driving companies are hiring... I hate driving... but it is starting to look more and more interesting the longer I wait to find a technology job.
"Do you have any highway experience?"
"Why yes, Al Gore invented my highway!"
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
RedLeg:
... sketchy.
;)) can get a subscription, and according to the rep, Linux and Mac OS are just fine with them. Since there is a location nearby, I will go there and try out the hour-long version first to make sure it works as advertised, and then mark up my national map with locations ;)
Thanks for the information on this.
I plan to move in a few months to Washington state (from eastern TN) and have been investigating internet options along the way, was thinking about buying a T-Mobile subscription, parking near Starbucks locations with a 802.11 antenna. That is
The yearly subscription rate is a lot less than I pay for my (backup) service from Mindspring; I just talked to a rep there, confirmed that anyone (you don't have to be in a truckers' union or anything
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
...after they've been shut down for an extended period of time.
Truckers and other operators of heavy machinery (farmers, construction, etc) let their engines idle because shuting them down and starting them back up is harder on the engines. Oil drains into the pan, more friction on start up than just leaving it idle for a while.
Also, diesel engines are pretty remarkable when it comes to fuel economy, especially idling. In fact, most diesel engines will actually increase their idle RPM by a couple hundred RPMs during extended idles, because the engine will cool off too much! This results in unburnt fuel that clings to the cylinder walls, some of which will be pulled past the piston rings, causing friction (washing down cylinder walls with diesel instead of oil), and oil contamination.
Also, some trucks aren't all that reliable when it comes to a cold start-up. Almost every time I've been to a truck stop with the CB turned on, I've heard a trucker asking for someone with a chain to give them a pull so they could start their engine.
During the winter, letting your diesel engine become cold can really screw you over, especially if you forgot to purchase winterized fuel. Gotta keep the fuel somewhat warm, otherwise it turns to gel when the temps drop into single digits (untreated).
There are plenty of VERY good reasons those truckers leave their engines idling.
"...the magic words being 'we have pull-thrus.' This means that the average 'Bago driver can pull up to the bay, connect power, water, sewer, snooze and drive away again, all without putting his land zeppelin into reverse."
=badly paraphrased from memory from Snow Crash.
Seriously, though, services such as these are also going to be available to the Modern Nomad. While their prices may be a bit out of reach at the moment, it's looking more and more like the Bago fleets envisioned by NS might actually be possible, if not plausible. Wireless internet needs hot spots to grow out from; best to plant as many 'seeds' as possible. As they spread, it'll become more and more possible to attempt to create a fully self-sustaining infrastructure just via wireless zones; the recent story on a guy aiming for a coast-to-coast wireless ping is an example.
I'm all for it. Spread the waves. Bring the noise.
...than most hotel rooms.
Besides, a lot of drivers want to stay with their truck and their cargo.
It's also paid for, and much more convenient than trying to park your truck in a hotel parking lot.
You've got food, entertainment (man, you should see some of the stereo/DVD systems in these trucks!), a comfy place to sleep, and lots of rest stops to choose from to park for the night.
You're absolutely right.
Diesel's don't suck fuel when they're idling. Most people just don't realize that, plus the fact you WANT to keep the engine warm pretty much all the time.
Some people just don't have a clue when it comes to operating machinery.
True, older diesels had problems running at their low idle setting for extended periods of time. That's why people retrofit a "high idle" switch for extended idling (kept cylinder pressure higher, heat higher, no unburnt fuel issues, no wasted fuel either) on the older diesel engines.
Newer diesel engines either perform the "high idle" automatically via computer monitoring, and/or come with the manual switch.
500,000 miles IS a freshly broken in semi engine. My brother just finished hauling freight for a company, using a company truck. His vehicle had over 800,000 miles on it, ran like a champ. My father purchased a semi with just under one million miles on it for use on the farm (hauls grain over the road to elevators/barges).
Speed limiters are for insurance purposes, nothing more, nothing less. Fast trucks are a liability, especially for a company that hires rookie drivers. They are not there to save fuel, they are not there to prevent idling.
Also, if you are a company driver (not owner-operator), you aren't going to give a rat's ass about fuel costs, period. You just turn in receipts.
Will all those wireless users congregating at one spot lead to interference? The effects of big metal boxes on RF is well known :)
How will it affect bandwidth? Say I got only a 10Mbit pipe how many user will I be able to support if during a snow storm an unusually high number of trucks happen to stop at one place?
I suppose email (just text no 10 meg power point slides) would be reasonable though surfing would be subject to local availability/load.
Here's the BIG difference...listen carefully: the trucker will have to pay for this service. Most truckers don't pay for their fuel, their company does. Therefore, the service costing less than the fuel spent idling is irrelevant to most truckers.
This *is* great, but i think the independents will be the first adopters, and the truckers willing to pay for their online porn.
A mechanic finds a problem with an existing device, gets or builds a suitable part, and does what is needed to install it. Files down a part, welds on an extension, rebuilds a seal between the parts. Most farmers are like that, particularly as they have room to work, they have time between major activities, and they have equipment worth several times the average annual earnings for a city dweller. (Heh, that description fits anywhere in the world)
An engineer would find a problem with a device (existing or imaginary), calculate the forces involved, design a suitable part and specify the proper materials, build or have built the part, test the part, then fasten it in place because it fits perfectly.
It's the same difference as there is between a builder/carpenter and an architect. The builder will add some more lumber or concrete to make the pieces fit together appropriately, and will estimate the forces and make sure things are much stronger than necessary. An architect creates or looks at a design, calculates the forces, specifies proper materials, and certifies that the building will be safe.
A little known fact is that LPG can be combined with Deisel to reduce pollution considerably. I've read of ratios up to 90% LPG, but at any rate, it's a large help. The lower particulates would be a big benefit at truckstops. And it must be worth bragging rights if your Semi runs cleaner than all your family SUV.
Example here.
Thing is, though, I have begun to suspect that you can't be a good engineer without first being a good mechanic.
Thus the name "Engineering tech". Ideally, every engineering school should take their undergrads from the engineering tech 2-year vocational-technical programs.
Interestingly, too, when I was growing up in 1985, if I wanted to learn about *nix, I had to go to the local VoTech college. Had I done so, I would have been far more prepared for *nix than I was by my school making us purchase IBM PS/2-30s [with 684kB of Ram!!! and a 8088/7 processor set!, which was only out of date by 2 versions -- I could have gotten a 286 with 2 MB for cheaper.]
OK, after a brief discussion with a few truckers (helps to live .5 mile from a truck stop) I got the facts straight. Either someone got confused and misinformed me or I got confused and mixed things up.
Back in the day, starting the engine of a truck was the equivelent of driving 2,000 miles in terms of WEAR ON THE ENGINE. Somewhere between the amount of oil on the pistons and whatnot, it was very harsh to start the engine. Nowadays this is no longer a problem with some of the advances that have come out of super lubricants and whatnot.
Anyway, with that I officially call this thread dead, 19 replies to a well written troll with a final moderation of (-1, Informative). I can't think of a better way to spend an afternoon.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
you are *SO* right.
I just hope TheViffer doesn't come back and remind you that the direct objects normally associated with the verb "affect" are things that change in some way as a result of the "affect," while direct objects associated with the verb "effect" are brought about by the "effect." That would out-of-line.
Don't feel bad; I think it's great that you're trying out new words.
af-fect (tr.v)
To have an influence on or effect a change in:
Inflation affects the buying power of the dollar
ef-fect (tr.v)
To bring into existence, to produce as a result:
You may effect a more badass image if people actually think your grammar is better than an Anonymous Coward.
Mom says my
I'm sure some trucks are fitted with the smallest (cheapest) engine for their intended task. A speed limiter would help keep those trucks from operating outside of their most efficient RPM range.
But some trucks are more than capable of running at 80mph efficiently. Those kinds of trucks have speed limiters for liability reasons (accidents, speeding tickets, etc).
Net porn might cut down on the lucrative business of parking lot prostitution.