Slashdot Mirror
X-Box Hackers Trying to Blackmail Microsoft?
wumarkus420 writes "According to this article from CNet News, an anonymous X-Box security research team is threatening Microsoft: either release a digitally-signed official Linux bootloader or face the release of a new exploit that supposedly works without a modchip. While I doubt Microsoft 'negotiates with terrorists,' this should still turn out to be a good I-told-you-so if the exploit is verified." Sounds like a good way to end up in jail.
"Reveal your trade secrets Gates, or we will set in motion a chain of events that will conclude with our incarcaration in a vile butt-slamming federal prison! We're warning you!"
They hate the competition.
These morons are just going to make the case for tougher enforcement and DRM.
It's not a war we want - because (and not to be trite) everyone will lose. Throw these criminals in jail and get on with it.
You know, c|net did a pretty good job of covering the story without the scare-mongering, sensationalistic crap that this poster did. People could read the article and draw their own conclusions, rather than shepherding the flock to the appropriate anti-X rhetoric opinion.
[
THis is, plain and simple, a bluff. If they had a way to do it, they'd release it; why wouldn't they? Who needs an official bootloader if you can boot Linux without a modchip?
It's a bluff to bully MS into allowing Linux on the Xbox. And it isn't going to work.
I know I'm probably guilty of feeding a +2 troll, and honestly I'm ashamed for even having responded to such a retarded statement.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Does this legally qualify as blackmail? I can't think of any other laws that would apply here.
Umm, there's already an exploit that needs no mod (the 007 gamesave thingy).
.05% of people who buy xboxes to modify them for linux.
So big freakin deal? These guys sound like idiots.
Whatever they know will be found out by others anyways. I seriously doubt MS cares about the
Hell for every guy who buys an xbox only for linux, theres a hundred like me who'll buy a dozen games or so.
It's funny how much power nerds think they have. They have about as much pull as pee wee herman.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Everybody in the article was an Aussie, so I assume that this Goddless Group of Techno-Anarchists (tm) are Aussies too. I didn't think that Oz had a DMCA like law on the books yet.
- doug
I remember trying this back in the days of Windows 95. I said, "Microsoft, you either release Windows 95 for free, or I will give away a secret code, 111-1111111, which will render your 'key-code' security invalid and allow everyone to pirate your OS."
They didn't listen, so I released it.
Who do they think they are, Cobra?
I mean, gee... This sounds like some corny Saturday morning cartoon plot...
"reveal your secret or face my wrath!"
Now all we need is for them to declare that they have an army of fanatical zealots devoted to the cause of bringing their plan to frutation, i.e., Linux on the X-box...
oh, wait...
hmm...
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
Sure, the game is "LINUX SYSADMIN!"
It's a game! It's training! It's a Trojan!
yeah really professional guys,thanks for that
what happens when IT/CTO managers read antics like this ?, you think it furthers Linux adoption or sets it back ?, i know we would look rather stupid if this article came up at one of our board meetings,
G
It's called blackmail, and it's illegal for a reason, asshole.
if the DMCA didn't exist then they wouldn't need to blackmail M$. If you want to prove that a law is unjust then this is eactly what you need, normaly law abiding people (as most geeks are I assume) having to resort to illegal methods to get things done.
Take gun, aim at foot, pull trigger. Repeat until death.
Are they going to start forming gangs? Are they going to walk into a local shop and threaten to fdisk their customer data unless they get their protection money?
Of course, Microsoft can fix the problem in upcoming Xboxes, which will happen if they do release the exploit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Trying to twist Microsoft's arm into releasing an official Linux bootloader is definitely the wrong way to go. If people were able to convince MS that there was actually a market for that sort of thing then they might do it themselves, but that's doubtful. Nevertheless, trying to blackmail MS into doing it will only increase the already massive resentment MS suits feel towards the open source movement.
And quite frankly it doesn't make the Linux crown look very nice. Not that MS has very moral business practices; but there's no need to lower ourselves to their level.
This is left as an exercise for the reader.
Sounds like a good way to end up in jail.
True. However, if the story is true, then the blackmailers are quite technologically savvy. If they also have the willpower (e.g. not bragging about it), it could be next to impossible to trace.
Um... the XBox Runs on an Intel (read, x86) Pentium III chip. So these guys are running Linux on x86 too.
True believers seek redemption from the sin of death.
And if I were rich, I wouldn't have to rob a bank.
So does the fact that I'm not rich justify my robbing a bank?
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Sadly this is still not the holy grail of the unmodified box.
The only hardware modification necessary is a
dollop of solder on the write-enable pads on the motherboard.
It's because of the added solder that the group isn't eligible for the $100,000 prize being offered to the first person to run Linux on the Xbox with no hardware modifications at all.
nohup rm -rf ~/. >& zen &
Better question: why does anyone care??
You want to run Linux on a $200 device? Buy an e-Machine and shut the fuck up. Linux on the Xbox serves no purpose except for "huh huh, Linux on a Microsoft machine, huh huh huhuhuhuh, I'm a super l33t geex0r!"
Stuff like this is an embarrassment. I hope they get slapped silly with lawsuits.
There was even a /. story about it:
here
Big threat...the info is already out there.
"I demand MS give me a copy of WinXP signed by BILL GATES HIMSELF or I will REVEAL THAT THE SECRET DOS COMMAND TO LIST ALL FILES!"
-Ben
This is all an elaborate ploy by Microsoft to get everyone to buy an Xbox. They want you to believe that either A) Linux bootloader will be released, or B) 37337 exploit will be released. Don't fall for it!
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to fashion a tinfoil helmet to block the RFID chip the dentist put in my molar.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Even if M$ , why would anyone believe whoever has this exploit wouldn't leak it anyway?
IF this exploit exists at all, it will either be leaked or duplicated by someone else.
1) Your analysis is based on bad assumptions so your result is way off. 2) You're a sick bastard for fucking a horse.
ENOUGH with the "MS loses money for every Xbox sold". So, if we the /. readers are to read you comment, then MS doesn't want to sell Xboxes? Ludicrous.
MS sells Xboxes at a loss so they can gain an upper hand over the rest of the Videogame market. They have much larger profit margins than the rest (Sony, Nintendo), so they can lower prices to such a level where the rest can't compete. Then they don't need to worry about lowering prices because they'll have beaten out the other consoles.
AND, for every Xbox bought MS loses less money. There fore they want more sold, not fewer.
The "Buy an Xbox and MS loses money" argument is stupid stupid stupid. MS wants you to buy and Xbox. They lose more money for every Xbox on the shelves than every one brought home.
Excuse me Sir. We have traditions straddling two millinea AND two centuries here.
Are you proposing that we stomp on the most sacred?
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Finally some good press for Linux!
http://use.perl.org
I always used 0001235467.
Yours is SO much simpler.
Wow...even on piracy of unwanted/unused Operating systems, the linux community has found a more efficient method. I'm impressed.
(emphasis is mine)
I really don't think Microsoft releases their money on every XBox sold. More likely, they fail to retain money on each XBox. I don't know whether to pity you for confusing "loose" and "lose" not once but twice, or to praise you for being consistent with your misspelling. Of course, making the same mistake twice means you really do seem to think that "lose" is spelled "loose", which is really sad.
Where's LoseNotLooseGuy when you need him?
up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, B, A, select, start! ;)
Snoozer.
C. After Microsoft refuses, and they release their exploits, and Microsoft inevitably accuses them of piracy, they can retort that they tried other avenues to run linux and were rebuffed and so this was their only option to enable a legitimate use of the XBox.
"if the DMCA didn't exist then they wouldn't need to blackmail M$."
And if I were rich, I wouldn't have to rob a bank.
So does the fact that I'm not rich justify my robbing a bank?
Hmmm, the issue is this, if someone buys an xbox then they should be able to do whatever they like with it since they own it. The DMCA places restrictions on what you can do, it inhibits your freedom.
The bank was never yours to begin with. Now go away and don't come back until you have found a better metaphor.
RTFA, please. The "hackers" would prefer a legally signed bootloader, since it would not have the side effect of allowing pirated games to run on the Xbox. That's why they aren't releasing their mods right away - they're giving M$ the chance to do the right thing. And actually, you can already boot linux without a modchip; see here for details.
The hack isnt fake. The hack is old and well known. It involves running the game 007, and using a doctored gamesave to reset the system and boot linux. Then you can flash the bios.
They said in the article that it was similar, but an easier approach -- but their system will allow piracy to go rampant on it, and they don't want to open that can of worms.
Just a bunch of loudmouth attention seeking idiots, making the legitimate hacking scene look like dirtbags.
They're just saying they want a real bootloader, and want to talk to Microsoft about releasing a signed bootloader -- not that they are trying bully tactics. If Microsoft ignores them, they're going to open it up publicy (with piracy capabilities) because they just want the Linux bootloader.
I'd blame Slashdot for making them look like attention seeking idiots.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
no offense to you but.. ;)
only on slashdot would a post suggesting to actually read the article get a +5 insightful
oh snap, he called out your metaphor.
They're trying to force Microsoft to release a piece of software that turns the Xbox into a cheap PC that Microsoft sells at a significant loss. I'm sorry, but I don't see that as especially likely. The modification they propose still requires you to solder the mainboard of the Xbox, and to flash the BIOS. That's only moderately cheaper and easier than installing a modchiop, and a lot more prohibitive than popping a disc into the drive. Let's not also forget that flashing your BIOS in that fashion effectively bars you from playing Xbox Live, since it automatically scans the BIOS on load. Many mod chips, on the other hand, can be switched on and off making them a much more reasonable solution for many pirates.
If they signed a Linux Bootloader that would be an endorsment of a way to loose money
This assumes that scads of people start buying XBoxen just to run Linux on it. Last I checked, the majority of people bought one primarily so they could play "Halo".
Or do you really think that all this is just so people can play "Tux Racer" on their HDTV sets?
Quite simply, Microsoft has not motivation to comply. How does the "research group" expect to keep their method from leaking? It will leak regardless. So Microsoft either makes an official linux bootloader for Xbox or not... Hmm.... tough choice.
I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
if someone buys an xbox then they should be able to do whatever they like with it since they own it. The DMCA places restrictions on what you can do, it inhibits your freedom.
So, does that mean if i Buy a gun, I'm allowed to shoot someone with it. Or, if i buy some paper, and a fancy printer, i'm allowed to make counterfeit bills? Your logic is flawed.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
If you had *read* the article, you'd realize that if MS releases an official bootloader, this will *avoid* piracy. The group says they will release the exploit if MS refuses, and the exploit, which allows Linux to boot, ALSO allows for piracy, while an official boot loader wouldn't.
RTFA.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
> And if I were rich, I wouldn't have to rob a bank.
More like "If my bank didn't charge these fees, I would be rich, so I'm going to make you either give me the money back or I'll tell everyone how to break into your bank." Still not legal, but as an analogy, closer to the truth. The answer is still "then don't do business with them."
Sorry but someone has to point out the horrible inaccuracy of this analogy. I guess it would follow more like this:
And if I were rich and then someone made a law stating that...no wait...damn I can't even work that into something coherent. It's that bad an analogy.
To put it another way. If we were once allowed to do something (work with programs and hardware for purposes other than they were intended for personal use) and then some old idiots said "Oh, no, some big fscking companies said they don't like you messing with there stuff even though you bought it. So you can't do it." and people responded in turn "You fscking suck and can either live up to our demands as your customers and make what we want or we'll tell other people how to do it for themselves."
I just don't get why they are bothering to include MSoft in the loop.
Just give it to the people...
(Sponsored by cheeseSource for President 2012)
Reasons for running Linux on an XBox rather than another platform? How about:
1. Built in TV out.
2. Built in *5.1* digital sound. Most digital soundcards do not offer this, the only stream sent over the optical cable is in stereo. The one exception I know of is the sound built in to NVidia's NForce.
3. Built in ethernet.
4. Built in DVD/CD-ROM (although it is kind of picky about some of the DVD-R's used)
5. USB after a slight modification (not much harder than modchipping in the first place).
6. Relatively low power consumption.
7. It costs $199 brand new and is available just about anywhere that sells electronics.
Add to those cool factor and a love of modifying things just for the hell of it and I see some pretty comeplling reasons, particularly for those of us interested in having a media jukebox, firewall, mail server, or just hack-around box.
Granted, their methods of introducing new reverse engineering techniques and discoveries leaves a little to be desired.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
Another PR victory for the Linux community.
Almost.
You're forgetting the obvious.
Each XBOX is a loss to Microsoft. Supply channels mean there aren't a lot of em on store shelves anyway.
Microsoft's greatest fear? A situation where someone buys an XBOX, and *no* games. Ever.
Let's pull a number out of my ass and say the MS needs someone to buy 2 games to "break even" on an XBOX sale. If you buy an XBOX, Mod it, run Linux and/or pirated games exclusively on it, then all you've done is cost them money. They've lost money on you.
If modding the XBOX becomes trivial, the chance that less games will be bought, and that the magic number of required games will *not* be exceeded for them to be profitable grows. THAT is the issue.
It's not "Microsoft doesn't want you to buy an XBOX", its "Microsoft doesn't want you to buy an XBOX and *nothing else*".
I didn't know that us Slashdotter's dictated US law! Hey guys, we should start trying some other laws and legistlation too, maybe make this whole monopoly thing go away! What are we waiting for, let's get started fellow judges!
I would put these kids in jail first. I would push for terrorist charges. I would try to get one of those sentences where they are not allowed within 15 feet of a computer for like 15 years.
Then (just to piss them off) I would release Linux for the xBox just as they asked.
The icing on my cake? I would charge like $100 for it.
Alas, Bill isn't that entertaining.
He probably has better things to do with his life then screw with these two morons.
*Sigh*
Why is it that the first response of just about everyone is "who cares"? Are there really that few of you who just do things because they are challenging?
There are a fairly wide variety of reasons to want to do this. The single most interesting reason for me is the ability to play *any* media using this single console. DVDs, VCDs, CDs, Streamed content, networked files, internet radio, flash, movie trailers...Anything I can play using a standard PC, *plus* i already have it connected into my system to play "Halo", "Brute Force", "Outlaw Golf", and a whole host of other games. Also, I can play all my old favorites, using various emulators...pacman, galaga, rastan, etc, etc...
All of this in a console that I already own. Why the hell would I *not* want to do this? Particularly if all it takes is a one time investment of 10 minutes getting the $10 memory card setup. Crist, it's not even a *stretch* for me to make the choice.
You know what's even better? I worked on the filesystem code for the xbox-linux project early on, before the prizes were offered. I *still* got $4500 for that work. That paid for my time and all the consoles I'll want to buy for the next 10 years. Never has a paycheck been so gratifying.
So tell me how foolish I am, berate my hobby as pointless or shortsighted. Then you go buy an xbox *and* a pc, that's fine. I'll just sit back and laugh at you.
Ever hear of a disassembler? Particularly for something as small as a bootloader, disassembling it is going to be trivial, so releasing a binary is effectively releasing source code. Just because he didn't spell it out doesn't make him a moron, he actually has a good point.
Don't be daft. They've already got the binary, all they want is a signature - disassembly is completely irrelevant. A signature is a cryptographically secure method of vouching for a particular piece of data, in case you didn't know.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Actually, since they're asking for a signed bootloader, that would suggest that the X-Box uses cryptographic signatures to verify binaries. The whole point of that is that, while the bootloader binary itself could be copied and distributed freely, any modifications would immediately cause rejection, as the new binary wouldn't match its signature. For a modified bootloader, you'd need something like the exploit they're threatening to release, in order to circumvent the normal security checks.
SYDNEY--Four teenage boys were found clinging to life today, after being thrown through 98 windows in a normally quiet suburban Sydney.
"We don't know for sure who did it, but this looks like the work of the MSDS--the Microsoft Defenestration Squad," said a Syndey Police Department spokesperson
The boys alledgedly had developed an easy way to circumvent the anti-piracy controls on Microsoft's game console, the X-Box. Reportedly, they tried to blackmail Microsoft with the information to try get a version of the Linux operating system to run on the X-Box. Microsoft never reponded to their blackmail.
The MSDS is wanted in 56 countries for a wide range of crimes. Everything from extortion stemming from unreasonable licensing agreements, to the now familiar chucking-folks-out-the-windows routine used to discourage competitors.
Sydney hospital officials say that the boys are making a good recovery and will be released by the end of the next week.
Would this apply here? IANAL, but I don't think it would take a lot of imagination on the part of a prosecutor.
18 USCA 1951 - The Hobbs Act
* (a) Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects
commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce,
by ROBBERY or EXTORTION or attempts or CONSPIRES so to do, or
commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property
in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of
this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than twenty years, or both.
* (b) As used in this section -
+ (1) The term ''robbery'' means the unlawful taking or OBTAINING
of personal property from the person or in the presence of
another, AGAINST HIS WILL, by means of actual or threatened
force, or violence, or FEAR OF INJURY, immediate or future,
to his PERSON or property, or property in his custody or
possession,
or the person or property of a relative or member of his family
or of anyone in his company at the time of the taking or OBTAINING.
+ (2) The term ''extortion'' means the obtaining of PROPERTY from
another, WITH HIS CONSENT, induced by wrongful use of actual or
threatened force, violence, or FEAR, or under color of official
right.
It works in the movies!
So if they do release a signed bootloader, does Microsoft get the $100,000?
It would be in Microsoft's better interest to release a version of Windows for the Xbox than Linux. And that would just mean more money they can gain from the sale of the Xbox. Not only would they control the software, but also the hardware. Isn't this exactly what they want to do with Secure Computing Base a.k.a. Palladium? Just put a package together containing Windows, keyboard, and mouse that will connect to the Xbox via the controller ports, and slap a nice little pricetag on it.
That was my first thought, freenet that baby let all those 15 users know how to mod thier x-box.
You're missing the point. If Microsoft releases a signed bootloader, there is no need to set a jumper, because the XBox security subsystem will recognize it as a valid program.
-j
They are OFFERING Microsoft a chance to conceal this weakness in the xbox before it is released to the public by getting an OS officially signed by Microsoft. In no way are they using this as a threat to MS, they are merely trying to be considerate in finding a win/win situation.
Or, in translated form, "how dare MS released a closed system!"
On what grounds does Microsoft NOT have the right to release a closed piece of hardware?? Why should they HAVE to support all the geeks that want the hardware but do NOT want to buy the software that basically finances the hardware??
Answer: they don't. They have every right to release a closed system. People talk about all the goodies that come in that $200 box. Those goodies are paid for by the game software purchases that are supposed to follow.
If a not-insignificant amount of Xboxes sell without any of those game purchases following, the price point would be hard to maintain.
But of course, none of that matters, because "MS is bad", "bomb Redmond", and other similar bullshit.
Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
This way, they get to hype their crappy hardware and make those who would actually use it look bad. Pththth-fit, no sale.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Next, setting a jumper in and of itself does not allow you to do anything other than flash the BIOS. You still need some kind of boot loader.
Finally, there is no incentive to Microsoft whatsoever to release a signed Linux loader. If they don't, then only current Xboxes are going to be able to run Linux without it. If they do, then all current and future Xboxes will be able to run Linux with it. Why would they bother?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I hear you saying, "That's lame. You can't use regulate people's behavior to that level." I certainly agree. And eventually the big IP hoarders will figure this out. But in the meantime -- well, I was never any good at tennis.
I'm somewhat impressed the author of the article got the skinny on the 007 trick, but he missed the real point.
For non-Xbox nerds, it works like this.
The XBox has internal flash for the BIOS.
To enable flashing, all just need to jumper one point (referred to as the D0 point) to ground.
The 007 trick is an buffer exploit that allows you to boot linux, once you've got linux running, assuming you jumpered D0, you can reflash your internal BIOS with a hacked version (which ignores keys). You'll never play Xbox Live, but you can now play pirate DVDs and copy games to your hard drive.
With only the buffer exploit, it's at least a challenge, but if MS was to release a signed Linux distro, the process would be trivial. Jumper D0, boot MS-Xlinux, FTP to Xbox, upload bios burner app, pow. Hacked Xbox.
It's *extreamly* unlikely MS would ever do this. These guys can release easier solutions for buffer overflow related methods, but nothing can have as much potential for evil as a signed linux distro.
"A signed Linux boot loader will not allow users to load pirated games, they say. However, the release of new Xbox exploits that the researchers claim to have developed to run Linux on the console could have the side effect of allowing piracy without the need to install a mod chip, something the hackers say they would like to avoid"
This is less terroristic than the replies and post would tend to make you believe.
forget it.
Denmark was the first country to adopt the EUCD (DMCA++). Here's a good EUCD status page. It has the same broad anti-circumvention tool proscriptions as the DMCA.
So the question is:
What if M$ sold a Linuxable XBox at a higher price (one which allowed them to turn a profit)? Would people pay the premium? (yeah, yeah, it depends on the premium...)
Twelve-and-three-quarter inches. Unyielding. This wand belonged to Bellatrix Lestrange.
The real problem is not with the security checks per say. It is the loss of money that Microsoft will face. If they release a signed bootloader you could write games for the X-BOX without paying a fee to Big Bill.
You could put linux,SDL, and the game of your your own creation on a CD or DVD and Sell it to the masses with out paying MS a penny.
So what if some people steal your game. We all know some peope will do that anyway. Of course a Linux+usb keyboard/mouse/printer running Linux/Open Office/Mozilla could be the first "net applance" that really takes off. I wounder how long it would take Lindows before they offered a CD+Keyboard/mouse setup.
Oh this could be soo bad for Microsoft. They will never do it.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
wow, so all eight people who run linux on their xbox can put their soldering irons away. And still get blacklisted off XBox Live anyway.
Microsoft must be quivering with fear, really and truly.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If they really have a mod-less hack to allow unsigned code to boot on the xbox the correct thing to do is release it.
There is no way MS will allow Linux or any other OS to boot on xbox as that effectively makes the system open and then MS wouldn't make any money selling certificates.
Besides, MS will now play the terrorist card and you _know_ how well that plays in Washington.
I thoroughly despise the fact that these morons are trying to use these means to get a bootloader for linux. What a bunch of pussies, what, don't they know how to solder? I installed a mod chip in my xbox just to run linux, and I know there is know way in hell that microsoft will ever release anything of the likes that they are demanding. I especially dislike that they are giving linux more bad press with asinine behavior like this. The SCO debacle is bad enough.
You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means...
Discreditable- Harmful to one's reputation; blameworthy
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
So two guys make a discovery. They immediatly contact the company to whom it concerns who simply ignores them. After repeatedly trying to contact them directly and getting no answer, they go through a different channel. They contact a news company and tell them what happened: they made a discovery that the company will want to keep hidden, and are offering to keep it a secret if the company takes the matter into its own hands. If the company refuses to even acknowledge them, they are just going to go ahead and not keep it a secret anymore. They are being "nice". They could've just posted the code/directions on the internet, instead they are making great efforts to reduce the stress on Microsoft.
What does slashdot do? HEADLINE: LINUXLOSERS TRY TO BLACKMAIL MICROSOFT. With the subtitle "Great way to end up in jail."
Great way to get people to read the story, but totally dishonest.
-- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
In most places it is legal to reverse engineer things for compatibility and/or personal use. So they did not break any laws there.
Next, they are not using a derivitive work. They are not using MS source code and then basing code on that. They have a method to modify personal property to allow compatibility with other software, again perfectly legal in most places and there is no derivation involved.
Look at software like samba. It is widely used and was developed by reverse engineering the MS smb protocol. MS can't stop it since it is not a crime to reverse engineer for compatibility.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
1) Release a boot loader, lose money on X-box, promote linux.
2) Don't release boot loader, be in the public's eye about not even securing a gaming system, lose more money because of xbox sales and stolen games, don't promote linux as much.
The rock and the hardplace. That's exactly where Bill is. Kinda feel sorrry for him.
Stop the Slashdot effect! Don't read the articles!
I doubt they put it that way. Honestly what is wrong with having found a hole in an existing product that lets you do what you're trying to do.. but you realize it'd damage the company making the product if you used that hole.. so you offer not to if they'll just give you the ability to do what you originally wanted to do?
If Microsoft won't bargain than their loss.. I'd go ahead and use the exploit they've found. Like the whole CSS thing they may crucify the hackers (making heroes of them) but they'll never put the genie back in the lamp.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I don't exactly know about Australian law, but it could very well be the geeks in question are playing on this angle: "If you don't cooperate with us, we will do it ourselves legally, and you will have no control over it whatsoever. The proof is in the pudding."
Perhaps MS could make money by *selling* such a bootloader..... ;-)
For those that think prison rape is something to laugh about, read this:
l
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.htm
While irreverent humor certainly has its place, I was horrified after reading this report.
I guess with Linux, you can use the cheap but cool hardware (TV out, Dolby 5.1, etc) and various console emulators to give yourself multiple gaming consoles in one. Your X-Box could then play SNES, Genesis, Arcade, Amiga, etc, etc, games as well as X-Box games.
When's the last time Nintendo released a system that could officially support Linux? When's the last time Nintendo released a console that used a common storage method like CD roms?
What's that? Never? So why isn't Slashdot bitching about that constantly?
Apparently hackers are so pathetic these days they have to force the system to cater to them rather than them catering to the system. But of course, this only applies to MS. Standards vary based on popularity of the company.
"I can't code in the XBox's language so I'm going to whine to MS until the XBox understands my language."
Nobody is required to make products "user servicable." Nobody is required to make it easy or even possible.
What's funny is that I can just see Linux zealots repeatedly smashing their faces on the glass trying to get to the food below.
"It's so close! The XBox is just a PC, if I could only get past this one thing!"
Give it up.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
I'm not too sure if anybody already mentioned this, but just running Linux in general on the Xbox would be a violation of the EULA. The catch is that it would be legal only if MS licenced it. I know that's not the whole point of this fiasco, but I do know that the whole idea of the ``Project B'' of Xbox-Linux is a violation, under this clause.
Also, for all of you saying, ``It's my hardware, I'll do what I want with it,'' I'm pretty sure I read once in the EULA that you don't actually own the console. The idea is that Microsoft is ``lending'' you the use of their hardware. I'm not sure if it was the Xbox, but I'm fairly sure that Microsoft would throw that at you if you tried to use that against them in some sort of a court.
Ah, yes, here it is. Section G, clause 1:
The software included in the Xbox Product is licensed to you, not sold. You are licensed to use such software only in your Xbox Product and you may not reverse engineer it, except as expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.
MS's lawyers really thought of everything...
I wonder how many seconds they have hesitated:
- Release the Linux signed bootlader, see people running legally any software on the Xbox, including but not only pirated games, see the stock fall 5% after the press release and the ZDNet comments "MS switches to Linux for the XBox".
OR
- Not release the bootlader, hope the blackmailer is not bluffing (30% chances), see the exploit in the wild, put the guy in jail for DMCA violation (1), blackmail (2), copyright infringement (3), violation of trade secrets (4) and terrorism (5), deny that the hack works (Wall Street won't never hear of it this way), see it goes mainstream, lawyer-bomb any Linux distribution with an XBox version, suppress the exploit from next XBoxes or make it fry the box (6).
Yes, I'm sure they don't sleep anymore...
(1) Don't care if the blackmailers are not American. It did not protect Johanssen from Norway.
(2) Some say this is not strictly speaking blackmail. I wouldn't argue that with the lawyers who convinced the DOJ that MS was not a monopoly. Reason, law and justice lights before Microsoft.
(3) Again, see Johanssen
(4) MS technology is so complex that a single hacker can't have found the exploits without the source code, can he ? SCO would agree.
(5) Because these XBoxes could be used to build Beowulf superclusters to build atomic weapons!!!! In addition, the "terrorist" won't see a lawyer before long, which make the case easier for MS and saves legal costs.
(6) This will be in the EULA, page 856. If you complain, the hotline threatens to call the police (90% of the people will use the loader to pirate games anyway) but will settle if you buy another XBox.
Christophe (Don't hesitate to point out my spelling and grammar mistakes, I want to learn - Thanks).
>So you're saying that running Linux on an XBox lets you dump the games to the hard drive and run them without their DVD?
Yup.
>See, that ruins it for me. What's going to stop people from pirating the hell out of games this way?
Morality? >:-D
>This sort of thing could easily ruin the console by wrecking the market for games. I'd really hate to see that happen.
Well, if it was going to do it, it'd happen by now. Apart from the GameCube, I can't think of a single system which wasn't heavily pirated. And I'm going all the way back to the original 8-bit NES, which did a bomb, despite how many clones were made of the system itself, and all the 1000-in-1 cartridges...
In fact, most systems that are pirated seem to enjoy increased popularity and sales as a result. Strange, but from what I can see, the market stays pretty faithful to that in most respects. Just look in your store and see how many more PS2 and X-BOX games are available against gamecube (the only popular "unmoddable" system, unless I get more info) games, even though the gamecube is cheaper, and in some respects, superior!
The don't have a large stock simply because they don't sell -- they have the large stock to supply demand.
However, that all being said, I only install and sell modchips for the purposes of running linux and making personal backups of your own games.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC