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Microsoft Stops Making SideWinder Peripherals
Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to a GameSpot article mentioning that Microsoft has discontinued its SideWinder range of gaming peripherals, which includes joysticks, gamepads, and racing wheels. According to the article, "..a Microsoft representative said the decision is a result of the continued decline in sales of all PC game controllers and the fact that most PC games are designed specifically to be controlled with a mouse and keyboard." What did you use your PC joystick/gamepad for, and why do you think the SideWinder PC peripheral market was popular in the first place?
After I bought one of those PS2-to-USB converter thingies and a PS2 controller I haven't used my normal PC joysticks / gamepads at all.
What they claim is true to a certain degree in my experience, the best PC only games are definitely better played with mouse & keys, while the ports / dual platform titles are more often than not best played on the console, using the console controller.
However I do believe there are a number of PC controller users who will disagree. There is probably quite a few nice PC controllers out there that definitely enhance the gaming experience. IMHO though the PS2 controller is very nice for those games best not played with a keyboard, like puzzlers and arcadegames.
life+universe+everything=42
Is it surprising that there is a decline in games requiring peripherals other than a mouse and keyboard when Microsoft themselves seem to produce the majority of their games to be controlled by, erm, mouse and keyboard?
I remember Microsoft at one of the first Quake cons trying to convince people they could play quake with a sidewinder. It was a joke. The rep kept getting his ass kicked by even the most mundane players. He looked like a sad guy. Felt bad for him so I let him beat me. Even then I had to play like a retard.
Bye bye sidewinder...you useless pos
First controller I had for my PC was a sidewinder game pad... the buttons and directional pad stopped working with far less wear and tear than my old snes controllers ever got.
Then for some reason I bought another sidewinder pad years later... same thing happend.
good riddance to crappy controllers.
"I am a kernel in the linux army"
hmm, i bought my sidewinder 3d way back in 1996. it came with mechwarrior mercenaries, and was like $60 total. i used it with that game, the original tie fighter game, xwing vs. tie fighter, and.... xwing alliance? the one where you pilot a version of the millenium falcon. picked the last one up for $7 in a used bargain bin about two years ago. sidewinder still comes out from time to time to play, but i haven't had to upgrade since. got a $20 driving wheel for need for speed: porsche unleashed, and a $9 saiko USB game pad to play emulator games on my powerbook on the airplane, long car rides. i'll probably own all three of those until i'm 35, maybe longer (i'm just 19 now). oh, and a $50 optical trackball for general use; $20 optical mouse for first person 3d shooters. i'm a casual gamer at best, and probably won't buy another piece of computer hardware for another 2 or three years unless one of my mice die, in which case i have a $15 ps/2 -> usb adaptor as a backup. yeah, i can see why the market is dying - it's not like these things get that much use by the general public, and the ones that do, still last forever.
moox. for a new generation.
and then the Sidewinder wasn't the best one
I've got 3 force-feedback wheels
The Logitech one on the PS2 is the best of the bunch though
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
While your letter was indeed intended to be insulting, i find it rather amused me...
To NULL or not to NULL.
Hey for flight games (flight sim 2004 comes out in less than a month) a force feedback joystick is almost essential - FS2002 (and none of its predecessors) worked well AT ALL with just a keyboard and mouse.
I'm going to buy two force feedbacks just so i know i'll always have one for the flight sim stuff.
Decided I needed a sidewinder gamepad for GTA III. Don't think I've used it for any other games (well, apart from vice city) but it was still a damn sight cheaper than buying a PS2.
for poor sales. I bought Starlancer, and found I couldnt play it since the only control device for it was a M$ sidewinder joystick. I borrowed one from a friend (who NEVER used it) only to find the joystick was crap. I havent played Starlancer for more than 15min consequently. I bought a M$ sidewinder joypad so I could play old school platformers etc on my PC. This one is EVEN WORSE than the joystick. It has littel ridges designed to give your thumb blisters and the buttons are placed so that you can't do combos easily. I am GLAD that M$ has stopped hawking their effluent. On a side note, I own a M$ office keyboard and optical mouse and both are pretty damn good, so not all M$ products are crap.
This really isn't much of a problem. In my experience a PS2 pad with a USB adaptor is enough for any joypad requiring PC games, and there are plenty of other manufacturers (Logitech, for example) who will step in to the void.
It's a shame, however, that they didn't put the same skill in to the design of the original XBox pads that they did with the Sidewinder range. Maybe then we wouldn't have ended up with the uncomfortably placed buttons and stiff triggers.
The MS controller works great for all those ROMS that I (dont) have. And even if I did have them, I own every game for which I have a ROM to..
With either a Dreamcast or Hori arcade stick through a console to USB adaptor you get a far better feel on things than a crummy cursor layout for games. Spindizzy Worlds is just the absolute Don with one.
What, you mean there are games other than through emulators?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
I use my Strategic Commander in my regular work as much as I use it for gaming.
The programable buttons are great for repetitive key sequences n such.
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
The only steering wheel I like is the Thrustmaster Nascar Pro Digital 2. It's not force-feedback, but it has a great solid feel to it, much better than others I've used, although they're somewhat hard to find. I've got a couple, and also got one for my dad to play racing games with.
The last one I got, the brake pedal wasn't mounted on its potentiometer correctly, so I had to pop the cover off and spin the dial a bit before putting it together again, but it works great now too.
Using mouse/keyboard/joystick for driving games just isn't as good.
I love and will use my sidewinder gamepad untill the day I die, but I had 3 sidewinder joysticks fail on me in under a year. In every case the joystick( or usb, for the last one) connector practically fell apart.
DRINK DUFF (responsibly) DRINK DUFF (responsibly) DRINK DUFF
Until I got XP and discovered there wasn't support for the joystick. I was looking to upgrade anyway to a force feedback but avoided another Sidewinder since Microsoft essentially abandoned me with my perfectly good stick. Still, my joystick lasted a good 7 or 8 years. I had CH Products joysticks that would wear out in less than a year before that.
'Same speed C but faster'
I don't know why there's so much anti-Sidewinder sentiment on here. It makes me sad to see M$ stop supporting a key piece of hardware, and gives me yet another reason to never upgrade from Win98SE. I bought my Sidewinder gamepad about five years ago and it's still going strong. I use it for MAME, Fighter Kyodotai, MAME, emulators, and...oh yeah, MAME. I've never had problems, except that the pad isn't easy to make Dragon Punch motions with.
Co-founder of GerbilMechs
The best gamepad for the pc has always been the gravis gamepad. Then it was the gravis gamepad pro. Now, it's the gravis gamepad pro USB. Just plug it into any USB on any pc and it works automatically without a hitch. True, most games use mouse and keyboard, but there are games for which the gamepad is very useful.
1) Emulated games. PS2 to USB converters achieve the same effect however. But $15 Gravis are cheaper than PS controllers.
2) EA Sports games.
3) Some flash games, occasionaly someone is smart enough to add joystick support.
4) old shareware games, you know the ones.
That's what I use the gamepad for. Also, the racing wheel for racing games and the stick/throttle for flight, mech, and other games that need many buttons.
So, there are uses for extra controllers on the pc, but few people still buy sticks and wheels. And those markets are dominated by logitech and saitek and such. And the people who use the gamepad a lot, like me, go with gravis.
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If you do have a controller you will notice some games (indiana jones, enter the matrix ), play exactly like they do in the Xbox. hmm.. is MS trying to cut down on controllers so people have to buy xboxes to get console like gameplay?
I love the MS Strategic commander. Not for RTS's as it was marketed toward, but for FPS games.
I have been using one since shortly after they came out and the same unit has seen 4 years of heavy use and is still working perfectly fine.
The game I have found it best suited toward has been Tribes2 since I can have all my loadouts as a macro definitions makes time in and out of the inventory list non-existant.
Micosoft's force feedback controllers were outstanding products. I have a force feedback joystick and a steering wheel. I bought the steering wheel first for car racing games then got the joystick for flight simulator games. Both controllers were solidly build and have stood a lot of abuse.
Keyboards and mice are just not meant to be used with simulator games.
With a keyboard I would be happy land somewhere near a airport.
With a joystick I can actually land it on the runway.
Even though most pilot training centers will tell you that Flight Sim's are bad for learning how to fly. Using the keyboard has got to be a lot worse than a force feedback joystick...
They produce Flight Sim.. Do they really expect everyone to use the keybaord now?
Ohh.. I use an RF joypad for a remote control on my freevo box.
Granted, I've only ever had one, so maybe it was a fluke and I picked the wrong model, but it felt cheap and flimsy. I'll stick with my nigh-indestructible Logitech Wingman stuff: a Digital 3D and a Rumblepad.
The Digital 3D is almost 4 years old, but it's as tight and responsive as the day I bought it. The Rumblepad only 6 months old, but it feels well-built and reliable. Having both work perfectly under Linux is just a bonus.
...what you people do to your SideWinders, but mine has lasted me many, many years of relatively rough use without any problems. I bought one of the 2nd-gen force-feedback Sidewinder sticks for use with FS2000/CFS1&2 a couple years ago. It doesn't get too beat up in flight sim, but in combat flight sim the stick meets the walls on a regular basis, I haven't noticed any wear on it yet so far. It's been a great stick, from what I hear not exactly the best out there, but it's served me well. The only complaint I would have is that the motor is too weak, no matter how hard it tries it really can't keep you from moving the stick.
I also picked up an open-box Sidewinder wheel last year, haven't used that so much, but the times that I have it's been a pretty solid performer. The biggest complaint I would have about that one would be the pedals. They're entirely plastic, no weight whatsoever to the base, and although using RJ-11 plugs to connect the pedals to the joystick is a neat idea, the cable's casing started tearing very shortly after I first used it from being pushed in and out of the channel made for it to sit in. Again, I'd have to complain a bit about a weak motor, although that could be more a function of the game developers, it just doesn't feel very realistic when driving.
Microsoft's joysticks always seemed rather flimsy to me. I have an old Thrustmaster (4 button, pov hat) that I beat the shit out of. It has a big rubber thing at the base of the stick so you can really yank it around without hurting it. It always bothered me that the microsoft ones (and others) had that little twig on the bottom that was sure to break or become off-center.
Unfortunatley, my trusty old joystick is nearing its last. Can anyone recommend a sturdy joystick that can take its place?
The future of gaming on the PC is in RTS and FPS, and MMORPG games... these are the only games that haven't translated well to the console market. Finally the useless joystick will die on the PC. Sure it's being used for those occasional flightsims, and the odd battle mecha game, but any joystick I bought never really ever did me any good for the PC! Good riddance... I'd rather concentrate my programming and Internet efforts on my PC and use my PS2 console for games... games that were designed to use a joystick. I found the joysticks on the PC a waste of money... sometimes they never worked as well as they looked, and so now that MS is getting out of that business, maybe they can concentrate on a better controller for the XBox!
That really sad to see! It was a simple fact that Microsoft actually made *good* game controllers, and is one of the reasons I decided to go with an Xbox for my consol. One of the reasons sales might be in decline is that all the people that would get a game controller for their PC might already have them? New sales being young first timers to the controler market. Most games are designed for a mouse and keyboard, that is true. However, I point to the Xbox/Playstation and see a large number of titles ported over from the PC. All those ported games use a typical game contrller like the kind microsoft sells. Microsoft should sell that biz unit to somebody else, it might even look good in their anti-trust disposition.
It isn't a lie if you belive it.
Obviously flight sim folks are the most hurt by this announcement. However, Mechwarrior without a joystick is like... is like... it sucks.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
...so I bought a Sidewinder. It was great for about a month, then it started drifting randomly, and finally settled on a slight turn to the left.
In sum, sidewinders are like most other M$ products, good in theory, crap in execution. It's too bad they don't have a real production cost for their O/S or they might discontinue that product line as well.
...the obvious conspiracy theory here: that MS is dropping this because they want joystick/keypad gamers to switch to the XBox.
And maybe it's a good theory to ignore. It's not much of a conspiracy theory when it's the company's official published roadmap. Why should Microsoft continue to lose money on peripherals which are used to go counter to one of their strategic goals (to get PC gamers to switch to XBox)?
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
The reason that Joysticks and Gamepads are in decline is the style of games that are now popular. What are the most popular styles of games in this country? FPS, RTS, MMORPG. Do any of these games play well with anything besides a mouse and keyboard (let's forget about the strategic commander for a second).
Eight years ago, when plat formers, and flight games of all kinds ruled, then the joystick market was ripe. But people don't play those kind of games all that frequently. Even the Mechwarrior franchise plays as well with a mouse and keyboard as it does with a joystick.
I think this is a sign of a sadder state of games (at least for me). When games like Wing Commander and X-Wing/Tie Fighter are no longer made because people aren't into them. *shrugs* But that's life.
Slashdot...it's like Fox news, but without the biased sl...or maybe not.
I did alotta reasearch flippin through hundereds of game pad reviews all for my MGS2 Substance on pc, I didnt want to get a ps2 controller because i hate tomb raider angel of darkness (random yes but unfortunate nonetheless) out of every single controller ive gone through I found only 2 controllers that could mimic a ps2, the thrustmaster firestorm dual power 3 and of course the godly logitech wireless wingman thingy. the wingman even though I think is a better controller is short a few buttons so I went for the firestorm, configuring the buttons for substance was a major bitch and I had to do a ton of work to get the analog sticks to work. I'm pretty sure the firestorm has the most buttons ive ever seen on a pc gamepad and has analogs u can push in like the console controllers.
I used my Sidewinder joystick for Xwing, Tie Fighter, and Freespace. AFter Freespace there werent many compelling flight sim titles left and the Sidewinder has been gathering dust.
Its never even crossed my mind to get a steering wheel. Never thought a desktop steering wheel helped immerse me in the driving world, it always seemed to just be a exercise in frustration.
X-Arcade Machine
Well, Ok, I won't really buy one. I'll just dream about it.
You know, back in my day computers (Atari 800s, that is) came with joystick ports standard. Of course, the concept of a mouse was a novelty, I don't think I ever had one for my Atari.
I remember the shock I had moving forward from my Atari with it's sturdy joysticks and decent games to the generic 8088 my Dad bought which had the crummiest joystick I had ever seen and couldn't even run Pool of Radience. Those were dark times...
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I think the majority of Mech, Space, and Flight sim games are meant to be played with a joystick. I'm still using an old sidewinder 3d pro or something that came with hellraiser... it's served me well with all the mech games I've came across (I didn't even know that you could twist the stick to register a response), along with things like Freespace 2. Unfortunately I understand their decision to pull the plug, just how popular are mech and flight sims anyway? When is the next big one coming out?
(rhetorical questions.)
Hey, it's my OPINION that dogs have eight legs and make a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss.
i've struggled with game peripherals for PC for quite a while. had several crappy flight sticks, several gamepads... for a while, gamepadwise, it was Interact's 3d gamepad pro (or something like that) that I felt was the best: it was seethrough, had a great deal of very comfortable buttons, and worked as a keyboard pass-through device. very good controller, I'd probably still use it if I hadn't lost it in a move. :-( anyway, after that happened, struggled with a few other crappy controllers till I finally stumbled upon Belkin's Nostromo n45: the controls basically mirror that of a dual shock. I like mine a lot for emulators, older games, freeware stuff (hey, some freeware games require these things for the full experience!).
btw, I've tried a few sidewinders.. I only ever liked the very first sidewinder... all the others were crap, ESPECIALLY the Dual Strike. *shudder*
I loved my SideWinder controller, but now that I have a "home theater PC", the length of the cable on the SideWinder was just a huge problem. The couch is really not that close to the TV. :)
Now, I use a generic PlayStation2-to-USB adapter I bought at Fry's with a Dual Shock controller. It just feels better on my hands anyway. Most of my PC gaming is done with emulators anyhow (I guess that's not really PC gaming then, huh?)
A joystick is a must for aircraft in bf1942... cant wait for the star wars mod. Anyone know of a utility to map force feedback to buttons? This would really kick ass for bf1942( my only qualm about the game other than the tkers )
"At first, we thought it was just another snake cult."
How do we reconcile these two statements:
- "most PC games are designed specifically to be controlled with a mouse and keyboard"
- there are no commonly-available mouse/keyboard style controller for console gaming platforms
Either PC game authors are really missing the boat, or console peripheral designers are really missing the boat.
-- Mojo Tooth : exploring our world as only an idiot can.
That's sad to hear. Just that much more likely that games like X-wing will fade away completely. I used my Sidewinder for:
- X-Wing vs TIE Fighter
- X-Wing Alliance
- Freespace I & II
- Mechwarrior II, III, IV (or whatever the latest non-expansion version was)
- Independence War I & II
All-in-all, I'd say I got my money's worth out of it.
Of course, my first Kraft joystick REALLY got a workout. Pretty much everything that was action in the late 80's and early 90's used it inc X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Wing Commander series, ELITE, etc....
Wish they would stop making Operating Systems...
Maybe then we would be able to get on in peace and write the best OS written!
Karem
I don't own any Windows machines any more, but I really do like MS peripherals. Their mice are nice, but I held back from buying a joypad since I just use one to play cheap and nasty emulators.
I bought a Sidewinder Pro (optical, though force feedback wasn't around yet) in 1996 and got a free copy of Mechwarrior 2 with it. At the time, the joystick was insanely expensive so a full version of a game was very welcome.
It was completely worth it, considering how much MW2 I played on it - and natively in Win95 to boot. (There were about two whole games that weren't DOS-only at the time.) It's still one of my fondest gaming memories, though the joystick is probably in a cupboard somewhere now...
I use the stragegic commander a lot for FPS, RPG and of course for all other "keyboard" playable games. The keys are directly under your finger tips and you can program any combination you want.
Never found anything comparable... I even looked for a macro recorder for the keyboard as a software solution. No luck so far (reply to this is you know of one).
Only thing that you need to watch out for is that it does not allow multiple keypresses at the same time (i.g. no "shift" function).
I am by no means a MS fan but the integration of force feedback in a lot of cotnrollers really pushed that technology, I wish all mice, etc. hat that too. It adds an extra dimension to games so that 3 instead of just 2 senses are used to convey the game atmosphere.
I bought a force feed back 2 just for that. After reading the reviews it seemed the best choice for a multiple use, tactile feedback game controller.
I suppose the other controller companies will continue making most types of these controllers but the Strategic Commander does not seem to have any comparible counterpart.
I do not have a Sidewinder Game Voice. I do not play much mutliplayer... but that seems to be a very good solution that also has not appeared in any other companies product list.
I certainly will miss the excellent engeneering and thought fullness of the Sidewinder developer crew.
Cheers, Duncan