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Mozilla Thunderbird 0.1 Released
An anonymous reader submits: The Mozilla Thunderbird (stand-alone Mozilla based mail/news reader) developers have just released their first milestone: version 0.1, available for Mac
Linux,
Mac OS X
and Windows. The v0.1 release notes highlight some of the bigger features like customizable toolbars, UI extensions, contact manager sidebar, simplified UI, 3-pane mail window option, and spell checker. Also of note, Mozilla's usage share has risen from 1.2% in February to 1.6% now, a 33% improvement!"
How incredibly exciting..
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
Yes, it is a 0.1 release for a reason. It crashed on my Windows system only once or twice, and that was probably due to some misconfiguring on my part. It was easy to configure, unfortunately it still reeks of "I-look-like-netscape"ocity (a problem plauging mozilla).
Linux distribution is quite good, it won't take over from Evolution just yet.
It's a good start. Remember, people, before you start posting whines about things not working, remember, this is a 0.1 release.
Make sure you get your favorite features from the extensions ;)
h ttp://texturizer.net/thunderbird/extensions.html
Extensions:
http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/
...available for Mac Linux, Mac OSX and Windows.
Mac Linux? That's a gnu one.
(bad-dump-ching!)
Thunderbird is the Mozilla mail component. Firebird is the browser component.
Whatever the feelings about Mozilla, I like the idea of only having to download and install what you need in order to make the lights go.
Is it any good at retrieving porn binaries?
MozillaZine Thunderbird Forums
FAQ and tips at Texturizer
But will I be able too painlessly move my email from Moz over? I've got two years of mail in my .mozilla folder and I don't intend to hack together some sick bastardized transfer.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
How is Thunderbird stability wise so far? If it's usable I'll start using it right away.
Off the topic, I switched my computer-illiterate mom from using her ISP's webmail to Mozilla Mail, and she likes it so much more. Now I just have to convince my dad.
http://ablegray.com
what kind of a number is that? Why not 1.0?
Customizable toolbars are definitely a winner, but I'm still waiting for toolbars that can be moved by dragging them with the mouse.
I still use Microsoft Entourage in Mac OS X.
My first real e-mail client was a little doodad written in HyperCard, and on my own machine, was Netscape 2.0 on an old Duo 270c. I used Netscape 3.0 when I had to, and then started using Outlook Express when Netscape 4.0 Standalone was introduced.
Since I moved to Outlook Express, I have tried many e-mail clients including newer versions of Netscape, Mozilla, and even Apple's Mail.app, but the utility of OE/Entourage has yet to be beat in my eyes. It is a pretty polished app, and it has been quite stable and usable with one notable exception (my own fault, however.)
I've tried every version of Mail.app just to make sure I'm not missing out on anything, and every time I've gone back to Entourage. I'll be happy to see what Panther/10.3 brings, as the competition is definitely welcome. I also want to see what MS does in regards to their Exchange server support in the next month or two.
Much as I hate Windows, Entourage is still my favorite client under OS X.
Why would you have to wait for Mozilla to load? If you checked the option for it, it will load up at boot time just like IE does.
Just as the stand-alone browser/mail/composer/etc components are supported even though Mozilla is still a monolithic app, will the user still have the choice of a monolithic app when Mozilla becomes just a collection of software?
The Moz guys see splitting up as an unquestionable Good Thing, but they don't seem to realize that some people like Mozilla as it is.
-twb
I followed the link which was SUPPOSEDLY about Mozilla's usage share increasing.
The title of the article is "Microsoft's IE 6 global usage share continues to rise according to OneStat.com"
I guess thats what to be expected from the Great Slashdot Spin Machine
Is there any news on the PGP/GPG integration? I was reading enigmail documentation the other night and there was some talk about encryption going in all the way and not just as an extension. Enigmail goes a long way in making that easier but it's still way beyond most people.
Well, thats what happens when you bypass the reading of the article to be the first poster, my mistake.
Let Mozilla load as at startup in the taskbar? Do I look like a 13 year old girl or a arthritic National State Park lodge receptionist?
Opera still owns, though.
you may not be able to, but every since my webhost got it I've been enjoying the wonders of IMAP. with 250 megs webspace, and only 1/3 of that used, i have plenty of space for mail.
Photos.
Nidelven IT just put up a new article called An Introduction to Thunderbird. Looks pretty solid.
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
I used to have one egg. Then, I bought a dozen eggs at the store. Now, my egg inventory has risen 1,200% in just one day!
Seriously, though, 1.2% to 1.6% doesn't mean jack.
Eh? What's that supposed to mean? A 33% percent improvement where? And yes, I did RTFA, but I didn't see any mention of it.
"The global usage share of Mozilla has increased with 0.4 percent from 1.2 to 1.6 percent since February 2003." Try search next time. Or, if you're using Mozilla, type and find.
I don't think it's an official milestone, perhaps more of a release candidate, but test it out for the team anyway!
Berto
Cool! I just had to do a WinXP reinstall for my parents, and I didn't want to set them up with Outlook again. And Mozilla proper is so, well, 1999 ;)
Anyway, they've been bugging me for weeks to get them off our ISP's slow webmail (well, mostly its slow because of my torrenting, but don't tell them that....)
So if Thunderbird is stable, I will set it up for them as their email client.
But personally I'll just stick with Mutt, thankyou-very-much.
The unofficial
And it was kinda like a gut bomb. Sorta like the look and feel of Netscoop that has carried into this release. I hope they can add skin support and get something new/unified going to synch up with firebird and be sleek-esque. Any plans for this?
Many Thanks,
Luke
Does anyone have a pointer to a binary for Silicon Graphics IRIX?
o ad/irix/1 .4/
BTW, I see that SGI has posted an IRIX version of Mozilla 1.4 in both tarball and inst/swmgr native tardist installable format:
ftp://oss.sgi.com/projects/mozilla/downl
Today you go to one site and download a Mozilla 1.4 installation. Tomorrow you will go to one site and download either only what you want or an "everything" installer. What's the difference, short of a saner development tree?
While Thunderbird does have a few quirks to work out, it is pretty sharp, and I can tell you that it really rocks as a mail client! I like it's look & feel better than the standard mozilla mail client in fact. I've set it up to work with Fastmail fairly easily, and it does a great job of syncing up to my IMAP account. Better than Mozilla Mail from what I remember.
I'm also writing this on Mozilla Firebird which is a sleek and fast browser for Windows and Linux. I really don't use IE anymore except to access some corporate reporting type websites at work and to access all those lame webpages on the web that are designed for IE lusers instead of the entire web.
As soon as the Mozilla team builds a better OS/UI for Linux or Windows, I'll be switching my gaming computer over completely!
The software's quality aside, it's an awful code name. Why would you name your product after a stereotypical wino beverage? It's inauspicious, to say the least.
I actually like the mozilla/thunderbird mail user interface, and it would be nice to view attachments directly, but I still use mutt in a terminal window because I hate editing with a mouse. Are there any GUI mailers that support vi (or, heaven forbid ;-) emacs --- ok, I'm sure emacs *is* a gui mailer, it's everything else ;-) so never mind that...)? It looks like there is a gpg plugin for M/T, so the editor is the only thing holding me back...
.... and I liked the look of it, the features (or the future features... didn't test all the buttons yet), and the spam filtering...
The one thing I don't like about it and Mozilla Mail is that you get one "From" address for each account. In Mail.app, I separate mail addresses with commas, and I get a drop-down to choose from.
If anyone knows how to do this in Mozilla and/or Thunderbird, please let me know. I like Mail.app, but Mozilla Mail seemed faster, and Thunderbird seemed even better.
dochood
After hitting an ATM earlier today the amount of money in my pocket went from $1 to $40, a 4000% improvement! Remember the old adage, "lies, damn lies, and statistics." besides, IE currently possesses a market share of about 95% (from the register earlier today, if I am not mistaken). It isn't quite time to break out the champagne for Thunderbird's usage. I want to see IE get beaten around as much as the next guy (for totally different reasons than most slashdot readers, mind you), but this doesn't count quite yet. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to seeing what happens. Congrats to the Thunderbird team, in any case.
iRooster, the Mac OS X a
I've got two years of mail in my .mozilla folder and I don't intend to hack together some sick bastardized transfer.
A version 0.1 is not something you trust valuable data with. Never. If you really want to test it, backup you email and put it safely away, preferably in another non-connected physical machine where the new software can't have a chance to find it. Read again the version number: 0.1. Even running smothly this is the sort of version that eats your real mail, misfilters all the spam and trash your disk on the side.
I've been using Thunderbird as my primary PC mail client at home since the first nightly build. Aside from a few small issues at first, I haven't had any problems for a while. It's the nicest looking alternative that I've found. Eudora has a nasty interface, and the MS stuff is well, just that. It's nice to have a decent alternative and I highly recommend it.
Dispite using mostly X11 based desktops (SGIs, Suns, x86 Linux) I do really like the look and feel of Microsoft Entourage. It does way more than Outlook Express, but doesn't need to rely on an Exchange server.
e ntouragex.aspx?pid=entouragex
e ntouragex.aspx?pid=whatsnew
Microsoft has recently dropped the price for standalone Entourage to $99, and I think they have an Entourage/Word bundle for $190. (It's still probably a better deal to make use of the Office OEM bundle when buying a new Mac from a reseller).
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/entouragex/
There are also a few good screenshots of the app too... doesn't look like the commitee-designed beast that Outlook XP is:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/entouragex/
This thing has the best IMAP support for windows of any mail client.
-no "phantom" messages like OE (my previous favourite) gets
-ssl support
-automagic configuration of namespaces (something most imap clients don't do even though it's in the RFC)
-conditional subfolder checking for "new" in case you have server side filtering
-"delete", "mark deleted", and "move to trash" support, instead of the simple "mark deleted" most imap clients have
-50% more pie
It means that Thunderbird is now 0.4% cooler than it was before. It's a major improvement.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Finally the spam i get got too much for me, and i switched over to Tbird due to its filtering system. Love it. Never went back to Outlook, 'cept to export my mail and address book.
Only ONE complaint about Tbird, aside from some minor cosmetic work--at this point in time it requires a third party app to check any sort of webmail--yahoo, netscape, Hotmail/MSN, etc. This IMHO is a BIG setback, as programs like hotmailpopper et. al. don't cut the mustard (seemingly incapable even of marking messages read once TB gets them, deleting msg's as they're deleted from TB's inbox, etc)
Make Thunderbird work with hotmail and it will look alot more appealing to alot of people
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Most mozilla users are savvy enough to block useless cookies. Heck, I almost always absentmindedly click "no" to the cookie prompt without even looking at the sitename.
I never knew that onestat.com counts browsers. If I did, I'd gladly allow the cookie.
This probably skews their result.
> -- unfortunately it still reeks of "I-look-like-netscape"
/.ing folks) are content with that direction, however, so I see no hope of them changing it, either. <personal_preference>I currently use Opera7 on both Linux and Windows, mostly because it's completely spiffy (small(er), fast, fully functional (popup blocks, cookie controls), comes with a great mail program and on top of that it's elegant.)</personal_preference>
:P
The problem is it feels like Mozilla. Monolithic, megalithic, slow and hard on the resources. Of course, it looks crappy, too.
I so wish I could support some open-source-collaborative browser, but Mozilla and its spinoffs (like Firebird) seem to be the only alternative -and I don't happen to agree at all with the direction the browser development is going. Seemingly they (and most of the
I'd be interested in knowing if there're any more or less mature open-sourced alternatives for me out there -heck, if need be, I can even put in some work on it
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
Now they need to figure out why...
My guess is that people are using Mozilla to get a handle on pop-ups.
Too bad the Opera mail client blows.
To be Ontopic:
Why the hell is Thunderbird so damn big? 9.0MB?
How many other mail clients are that monsterous?
Pocomail - 4MB
The Bat! - 2.4MB
Foxmail - 2.3MB
Incredimail - 5.6MB
Even Eudora is only 6.2MB
I've been using Thunderbird on Windows now for about 3 weeks and I haven't had a single problem. I much prefer it to Eudora, my previous email client.
By the way, something useful for non-US English users that took me a while to figure out: Thunderbird uses MySpell dictionaries which can be downloaded here.
And lots more tips for Thunderbird here.
One of my favorite features in Evolution is the safe preview: when you look at an email message, it renders the message in all ways that do not involve hitting a server. So an HTML message with bold, italics, colors, pictures, etc. will display correctly... except for anything that would touch a server.
Why is this important? Because spammers make special URLs that encode your email address, and their servers use the special URLs to track you. If you even preview the message in Outlook, or in Mozilla Mail, their server gets a hit and they know your email address is a good one.
There is a command on a menu, "Load Images", that will go ahead and put hits on servers and render the message completely. You can use this for email from sources you trust. (It ought to be a toolbar button, but it isn't yet in Evolution.)
If Thunderbird doesn't already have this, I ought to file a bug.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Flame me if you want, but the Thunderbird team (who are doing a great job IMHO) should take a look at the outlook 2003 beta. There are two killer additions to the client:
1. Three vertical panes. 1 thin pane for folders. 1 pane for folder contents and 1 pane for displaying the selected mail. It is a MUCH more efficient use of space.
2. Follow up flags. Flag an email and file it away to reduce your inbox clutter. You can keep track of flagged mails in the "Flagged mail" folder (durr!). Use different coloured flags and even flag a mail for follow up in the future.
Invoicing, Time Tracking, Reporting
Read the link you included. It makes this quite clear.
You clearly have not tried Mozilla's firebird browser. It is a lightweight version of Mozilla 1.4, and is much faster than IE, not to mention more secure. IE is bloated -- and the full extent of its bloat isn't known because of its integration with the Windows OS. To give you an Idea, IE has a footprint of 13,000+ Kilobytes in System memory, while Firebird (with 8 Tabb'd windows) only has 3,700 Kb of RAM as a footprint.
War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left.
If that's not right for your needs, you could always try Lynx... :P
just goes to show you that with enough manipulation, you can make any number look good.
I've been using Thunderbird as my primary mail client since the alpha came out a few weeks ago. It is very stable (no crashes as of yet), and has a very small memory footprint. I also like that it isn't tied to Mozilla or Firebird since they crash a lot more often.
IANAL, but I play one on
"This is just a draft. Mozilla Firebird 0.6.1 has not been released yet."
D'oh.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Hopefully one day it'll have the capability to export/backup your old email. I'm tired of finding the files manually and copying them, then reinserting them when I upgrade. Not having that capability is pretty amateurish.
Is it that difficult to make a version for OS 9? I don't understand why no.
I suggest you read Slashdot
...well I think Opera's mail client rules! Seriously I wish they would make a stand-alone mail client with all its features. And strangely enough, Opera is only 3.3MB total, with both a browser and mail.
Sylpheed is my mail program of choice. I tried thunder bird a little while ago it was alright, a bit buggy which is expected since it's in early developement. I'll give it another shot in a few months after it's had some time to grow.
Snoozer.
I'm getting sick of reading those "Your current security setting does not allow ActiveX controls. As a result the web pages may not display correctly" messages.
I believe this is a moot point. The default theme is horrid, I agree, but there are a variety of themes to choose from at http://themes.mozdev.org. <personal_preference>Orbit 3+1 rules!</personal_preference>. And I don't notice Mozilla's speed problems, but I have a top-of-the-line computer, and understand that not everybody else does, and I understand it's something the Mozilla team needs to work on.
In the same period Netscape has lost more users than Mozilla has gained.
It states IE6 adoption is increasing (my gran could've told you that) but fails to state the movement of MS's overall market share.
Do I look like a 13 year old girl or a arthritic National State Park lodge receptionist?
Yeah, you kinda do. What of it?
But it's spam filter is SO LAME! It's the worst I've ever used. Either it lets everything through, or nothing at all. Mail.app's learning spam filter is what attracted me back to Mail. I was extremely pleased to see this same feature in Thunderbird (which is now my second choice).
In addition, Entourage's "Views" feature is so ungodly slow. I like having a combined Inbox with my several IMAP accounts and in order to simulate this in Entourage, I have to make a View and it's so slow even though it's only the combination of a couple folders (nothing fancy or complicated).
I'd like to go back to Entourage, but while it shines in some features (its rules are absolutely awesome), it's pathetically pathetic in others. At this point, my preferences in order are: Mail.app, Thunderbird, Entourage, all the rest (most of which don't even support IMAP).
7. Opera 6.0 0.6%
Methodology: A global usage share of xx percent for browser Y means that xx percent of the visitors of Internet users arrived at sites that are using one of OneStat.com's services by using browser Y.
Just as an example of why these types of numbers need to be taken with more than a single grain of salt. In the example above, Opera 7.0 (and I think 6.0) defaults to reporting itself as MSIE. So unless the user cracks open the prefs and digs deep into one of the many preferences panes and flicks a switch, those visits will be taken away from the Opera totals and heaped onto the MSIE totals.
They are most likely assessing the reported user agent string to their network of websites which may or may not be the actual browser being used.
-----
Cast a Cold Eye
On Life, on Death
Horseman, pass by
--W.B. Yeats' gravestone
It's open source. Go get the source and port it. Find out the answer to your question (how difficult is it to make it work on OS9?) as you make it do what you want.
I've tried Thunderbird (and mad dog 40/40 har har) 0.1 combined with firebird 0.6 and the first problem that I came across was enough of a show-stopper to make me switch back to the traditonal suite.
That being the inability to right-click on a web page and have the "send page" menu option.
I have a low-end system, but I'll make a point of finding resources to get this kind of functionality.
Splitting the two programs up seems like a step backwards, in my opinion.
Even when you tell Opera to report itself as MSIE, it includes "Opera" in the user-agent string. There is no way to specify a custom user agent string.
This is how MSN identified Opera users to serve them a different style sheet. This is how my bank prevents me from using their online banking application.
Mozilla, OmniWeb, and many other alternative browsers let you override the user agent string to whatever you want. Opera does not allow you this flexibility. I know this because I'm a registered Opera user.
For more information, click here.
no i know that Firebird and Thunderbird use the same tookit. But i noticed that thunderbirds records libgtk2 and that firebird only required libgtk1.2 (or soemthing like that). Does this mean both these libraries will be used? Why? im guessing the linux version of the gui toolkit uses these?
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
"lies, damn lies, and statistics."
That adage is totally irrelevant here, because no data is being hidden, and there is no handwaving to distract from the real numbers: they are given up front. No one is claiming they are poised to take over the market over the next year, or anything stupid like that. It's just a little pat on the back, that says "hey, word is spreading that our product is in fact getting better, and more people like it". Kudos to them.
Save your adages and sarcasm for statments like "In a massive upset in browser market share, Thunderbird has surged ahead with a 33% increase in usage."
"In addition to automatically detecting junk mail using the same method as Mozilla Mail, Thunderbird also sanitizes HTML in mail marked as junk in order to better protect your privacy and give peace of mind when viewing a message identified as junk.".
;)
In other words YES, it does. As long as the message is marked as JUNK MAIL, it will stripp it of anything that could be dangerous for viewing, if it is not dangerous, just mark as "not junk"
Does that mean it runs better on an Athlon = 1.4GHz?
I'm also a registered opera user.. love the thing.. but i hex edited the useragent to remove Opera.. some sites still dont work.. i think its because they use javascript too... thats why i also use proxomitron.. to fake javascript browser/os return strings =P
it seems that that whole customise toolbar thing looks similar to the way OSX does it.....
It's amazing that people would rather PAY money to purchase pop-up blocker software for IE than to use a better web browser.
I'm trying to get my friends to switch to Mozilla but it's very difficult to convince people to try a different web browser.
I downloaded the earlier release a while back for my Windows 98 SE system. Unlike MS Outlook Express, it has unicode support for the main GUI fonts and not just the email messages themselves.
With Outlook Express, all the entries in the from and subject fields would not display in unicode under Windows 98. No amount of messing with settings or posting on BBS's would solve it. I mean is someone really gonna open a letter from "???OT???XZ??" with the subject "???00??X??"?
Thunderbird displays the unicode characters nicely in the inbox listing, and in the emails themselves - right out of the box. No extra stuff needed. Wunderbar!
Although the junk filter is pretty good, it still misses one or two junk mails a day, mainly because the spammers are getting really inventive and varied. And although in most cases you can just look at the subject/sender and mark it as junk anyways (and be right), it is not always the case.
:)
And for the more normal non-geek user, it should really help them more with this.
I'm well aware of the odds (slim) that any non-geek uses Phoenix or Mozilla Mail for that matter at this point, but no harm in looking forward is there?
I think it should sanitize *all* mails not explicitly marked as safe - just make a little blurb (like the "Mozilla thinks this mail is junk" notification) that "This message tries to talk to a server. Do you want to allow that?" with a link to an explanation in the help files or something like that.
One thing that really could go a long way would simply to disallow all automatic loading of any url containing parameters. Of course, that could be bypassed by using parameters in the PATH instead, but it would probably weed out lots of these cases. What legitimate email would need to send parameters in an image url?
Also, isn't Netscape 6 and 7 basically Mozilla? If so, wouldn't it be safe to attribute the big drop in Netscape users to the possibility that some (most?) of them might have upgraded to either version 6 or 7 of Netscape?
I cant wait till theres a window manager written for Mozilla and a desktop. Mozilla has a some nice apps for it like IM clients and IRC clients, games etc.
:).
:). Great OS apps. Lovem. Well, i'll find out if i love thunderbird.
I know OEone (or whatver its called) exists but its mainly for redhat right? And it seems as if its mainly for the beginer. Its application focus with kidna doesnt sit well with me.
I think once a Moz Desktop is developed we'll be set. Wont have to bugger round with other GUI's and mozilla apps will load a lot faster
When thunderbird and firebird are the main components of the mozilla build, i'll start downloading that again so i can take advantage of the fullness of mozilla and the apps that are developed for it.
But for now, Firebird and Thunderbird it is
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
It means that in measurable ways that from the market share of browsers that mozilla now owns 1.6% of the market... as compared to stuff like opera and internet explorer.*
*I beleive
Of course you have to take this with a grain of salt.. many servers misidentify browsers and some people have the browser settings changed so that opera is identified as IE for compatability reasons (as a example)
But while 33% sounds cool, 1.2 to 1.6% isn't that great, but it is a improvement. The sooner that IE is a minority the better, because then designers can concintrate on creating websites rather then figure out how to work around MS incompatabilities.
(of topic stupidity following):
hmmm... this reminds me of once I read from a MS-pro site that w2k3 server usage has increased 300% since it's introduction. SINCE IT's INTRODUCTION!!!... sigh.. and he thought that was wonderfull news. Well probably mozilla usage has increased 1600% since it's introduction. (meaning its a useless statistic)
The built-in spamfilter rocks, too, and it's really fast and responsive - so give it a try. :)
I made a PHP/MySQL library that prevents SQL injection & makes coding easier!
2003-07-28 21:28:42 Mozilla Thunderbird 0.1 Milestone Released (articles,mozilla) (rejected)
yep.
tasty electronic music vittles
My only beef is that it crashes some times when it tries to auto-complete a form and there are some sites out there that just won't work with it.
I'm not sure what the secret to success is, but the secret to failure lies in trying to please everyone -Bill Cosby
NT
..when's mozilla.slashdot.org going up?
I confess I've been using this for only a week or so now (odd that they are announcing 0.1 yet my help about sez 0.6 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030516 Mozilla Firebird/0.6) - either way I like what I have seen. Not one crash, the plugins work well, its faster (or at least seems faster than Moz) and its OSS. I haven't put it on my Linux box yet just out of laziness - over there, Moz still rules the roost.
Eat recycled food - it's good for the environment, and OK for you.
I downloaded the app for OSX to give it a test run. I think I'll stick with Mail.app for email, since the I've got the junk filter all trained up and it gets my hotmail, but I'm very happy Thunderbird is a decent news group client.
A few months ago I went on a search to find a free news client with a decent UI. While Thunderbird is a little clunky (some bugs in the UI, graphics missing on tabs) it's already much better than anything else out there I managed to find. Now I won't have to use a cgi script to read news groups anymore!
the thunderbird team has added that 3 pane layout.
Dork.
Matt
The previous release lived happily with firebird. This 0.1 release is hijacking my firebird profile and my firebird -remote commands.
Also, the cntl-shift-c keyboard shortcut isn't working. And hyperlinks don't seem to do anything when clicked upon.
But despite these slight oversights, this is my email client of choice. And firebird is likewise my browser of choice.
My bad. I have not checked the client for a while. A great addition. Now if only it was possible to split the messages view across multiple lines - with three vertical panes the messages view gets really crowded...
Nice of you to be so friendly by the way!
Invoicing, Time Tracking, Reporting
There're two main problems with Firebird. 1) It's a side project of Mozilla and 2) it's a side project of Mozilla.
If one were to extrapolate, the problems arising from the former include the engine -taking the turret out of a tank doesn't make it a sportscar. In this day and age it should be pretty obvious that refactoring something existing only goes so far. The other problem is XUL. I don't know who came up with it, but they need to be employed as a underwater repairman for the transatlantic telegram cable. Don't get me wrong, Firebird is an improvement over Mozilla, but that's only because Mozilla is ridiculously bad. FB is a decent browser, and it's not going to get any better. Consider: Firebird is a horribly incomplete browser when it comes to additional functionality -it only barely does a fair job at being an extremely barebones browser. Have you ever heard adding code without modifying any of the existing stuff making it better (the few freak accidents aside?)
What could they do better? It's hard for me to say -I must admit I haven't viewed the source to either project all too carefully because I don't feel any interest to do so. I don't like them.
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
You obviously haven't viewed it to carefully, as its intended to _replace_ mozilla. The idea is that Thunderbird and Firebird, when complete, will be released in tandem in replacement for the bloated mess that Moz has become.
Firebird is sweet - nothing but the minimal browser stuff, + skinning (and many nice skins are available) and tabs. IE style sidebars for history, etc. Plugins galore are available so you can choose whatever bloat you'd like for it (I use mouse gestures).
The only actual problem I have with Firebird is that the bookmarking manager is piss-poor.
Our market share has increased from 1 person to 3 people, a 200% increase!
> The sooner that IE is a minority the better
Excuse me sir, but have you noticed that you have monkeys flying out of your butt?
Opera's M2 Email Client http://www.opera.com/products/user/m2/ Also has a filtering agent that does not contact outside servers so your privacy remains intact. It should also be mentioned that M2 is not an ordinary email client, it uses access-points instead of folders. Takes some getting used to but it is really useful and cool once you know how to use it.
His mom really is a whore.
why woudl i want to use itif it isnt aquazised..?
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Are you sure that's 33%? Or is it 25%?
OK, I am sold.
W3C compliance not a factor in this survey eh?
Go ahead and mod me - this survey is just lunacy in my book.
The
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
So is it just me, or is there no option to import mail, address book, and settings from Mozilla Mail? Perhaps the files are fully compatibile and I can just copy them, but I'd rather not guess.
Ok, this has nothing to do with Mozilla.
" just goes to show you that with enough manipulation, you can make any number look good."
Apparently the deficit needs a new chiropractor then.
Also, Moz is so much more standards compliant. If you've ever tried making a webpage with CSS you would see. Opera is not horrible (certainly not as crappy as IE when it comes to CSS), but the page elements always seems to be off be one pixel or so in Opera, so I have to resort to hacks to get it to look right in Opera. In Moz all of me CSS just works the way it should.
Like I said though, it's not like Opera is really bad, its just not that great, and I really don't see why people on /. prefer it so much. (It's not even open source!)
Doesn't render the bottom of cnn.com correctly.
It's probably just people finaly upgrading from Netscape Communicator....
Advanced users are users too!
After hitting an ATM earlier today the amount of money in my pocket went from $1 to $40, a 4000% improvement!
I'm amazed you managed to get $39 out of an ATM.
Wow, me too. I'm amazed that his bank's ATM fee is only $1. I would have gotten $38.50.
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
--
Please don't hate me if I missed the obvious. No one as of yet has offered to help me with any of this, and I feel buried alive in man pages.
I believe from my own personal experience converting people to mozilla that the following words apply:
Evangelism works.
I am truly the Jehova's witness of mozilla evangelists, and I've got some foaming at the mouth die hard mozilla fanatics now thanks to firebird/thunderbird. They all refused to use ANYTHING but IE before.
The longer the whole thing stays off Microsoft's radar the better. Word of mouth is more reputable than ads are these days. Just show your friends why they should use mozilla based products, explain to them what MS has done wrong with IE (I have a list of bugs I can show people right off the bat), and you'll have a new user in no time.
If they don't see mozilla coming, then Microsoft will shoehorn themselves into requiring people to buy their next OS JUST to get a new IE to see the latest web sites. I doubt too many people will want to spend $200 for that "priviledge" when a better product is available for free. WITHOUT the pain of an upgrade. Would also foul up the Palladium initiative too...
Yeah, but can it hotsync with a palm?
(I couldn't find the ability to do that anywhere)
Are they ever going to make a stand alone version of composer?
This only served to remind me of a call I had from a little old lady today that was using Netscape 7.1 for her e-mail.
She'd been using the internet since the Old Days, back when Netscape was being used by the masses. The problem is that the mail client for Netscape 7 likes to use the sidebar buttons entirely too much.
How too much? Twice, to be exact. Only twice, you ask?
Well, twice is way too many. Because once you hide your mailbox list on the left side, and the message index pane at the top, all you see is the one message you had selected.
Or, when you start the application, you see the web page that you put in as the start page for mail (god knows why you'd want one). So all our Little Old Lady from Silicon Valley could see was our home page. Which happened to also have a link to our webmail. Imagine her confusion when she found that she had no mail when she logged on that way. Not to mention the confusion of the level 1 techs below me, who couldn't quite decipher what the hell was going on.
This is where the story gets interesting, and more importantly, points out some very important interface design flaws in Netscape and Mozilla.
Those buttons to hide and unhide the left and top panes are strictly for the sort that reads Slashdot. Their purpose is not obvious. Their very existence is not obvious. And if one were to click them accidentally, it's not obvious what happened. More importantly though, is that they are fucking impossible to describe over the phone. They don't look like buttons. Hell, the border that they reside on isn't something you can describe either, especially when the border that exists around the web page being displayed is much more obvious. Personally, I'm certain that there is no real reason to use them in an e-mail program, because quite honestly, the folders list should always be visible, and the index list should likewise always be visible. If they should ever disappear, the user will invariably wonder where they went and complain to someone like me. Outlook Express at least, has menu choices to bring them back. Netscape does not.
Netscape will never again be ready for primetime. There are two reasons for this: IE and Outlook Express comes with every computer on the planet, (or near enough to make no odds) and Netscape's/Mozilla's interface was designed by geeks, for geeks. While this makes it superior because of better features, it makes it very hard to do technical support for it over the phone. As such, people like me will continue to recommend it to customers, and will continue to get people started with it in the first place. It simply makes our jobs easier.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
In Mac OS X's built-in Mail program, go to Mail/Preferences/Viewing and uncheck "Display images and embedded objects in HTML messages" to do the same thing. Be aware that attachments will still be displayed, and some pornographic spam includes graphics as attachments, but this is relatively uncommon. Unfortunately Mail doesn't seem to have the Load Images command that Mozilla does, which would be nice for legitimate HTML e-mails that you can't read because they're mostly graphics. And yes, it should be a toolbar button.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
After hitting an ATM earlier today the amount of money in my pocket went from $1 to $40, a 4000% improvement!
No, that would be a 3900% improvement. This is a common mistake I see in newspapers all the time. If the price of widgets doubles, they'll say "widget prices increased by 100%". But if the price of widgets goes from $10 to $50, they'll say "widget prices increased by 500%". Can we have a little consistency here?
Let's say you start with $1. If your money on hand improved by 0%, you would still have $1, you would not have $0, right?. Also, if your money on hand improved by 100%, you would now have $2, not $1, right? This implies that the English statement "x improved by y%" means "x + (x * y/100)", NOT "x * y/100".
If your money on hand was improved by 10%, you would have $1.10. 100%: $2.00. 500%: $6.00. 1000%: $11. 4000%: $41
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Flash click to View is the greatest thing ever.
Think again, look at: mutt.org.
You may think text-mailers are lame, but mutt is fastest en most usefull mailer there is.
Although I don't know why, I sometimes switch to pine, most be something I'm missing, I guess Pine is easier.
New things are always on the horizon
Try Orbit 4 for Firebird, best looking them I've ever seen.
Did anyone else notice in that third screenshot, the Mac OS X version of Office doesn't have "Clippy"... instead it has an original 1984-style Macintosh with a set of legs!!
Kinda cool... at least for a minute or two.
Are there plans for Mozilla to support common binary file formats, like yEnc, I guess?
http://junglevision.com -- Shamus for Gameboy
One of the owners of Opera Software ASA actually had a part in designing the CSS spec.
If CSS doesn't work for you go and validate it you wanker.
I agree with you. My bigger problem, however, is that I don't quite understand what it is they are trying to achieve with the Mozilla effort. They change their objectives around more often than necessary, not small ones, but big and visible ones. I am not so sure that their current plan will stay in place 1-2 years down the road. I hope they make up their minds and stick to it. Most people don't like surprises like that.
I use Konqueror for mostly same reasons (and since I don't deal with win32 platforms anymore). KHTML is slick, fast, standards-compliant, stable and very good at rendering IE-only websites. With Apple putting even more work in KHTML, this is only going to get better. It will take yet another major change in Mozilla project to convince me to switch back from Konqueror.
How about porting KHTML and implementing frontend for win32? Something like this to build on?
Actually, the statistic measures a product's coolness based on the number of posts to Usenet about that product over a given period.
I agree, Netscape 4 was rightly much miligned for its poor HTML rendering but there was much else to like about it, and the Roaming Profiles will be much missed.
This allowed you to store bookmarks, preferences, addresss books etc. in an LDAP server or (less often) a web server. You could then log in and retrieve them from anywhere.
LDAP support in Communicator 4 was generally excellent, and has generally disappeared from Mozilla apart from address lookup. I have some LDAP experience, if anyone is interested in resurrecting roaming profiles perhaps we could rebuild this service?
Hmmm, well, there's always Dillo if you're after lean, clean and fast. But Dillo doesn't yet have https support and - while probably at least 95% functional for everyday use - the rendering engine does have difficulties with complex sites. But the browser is ultra-tiny and rocket-fast - oh, and from what they say on the website, it sounds like they could use some help!
But if you want *all* the bells-and-whistles (we're talking javascript, CSS, and full internet standards compatibility here) then I can't see how this is going to happen without at least some code-bloat and a slow-down. MozillaFirebird isn't that bad when you think about it - it's *quite* fast without being outstanding, but when you consider that I can (and regularly do) have more than 50 tabs open at once I think it doesn't do a bad job.
I also can't help thinking that the current MozFirebird default theme is pretty decent - it's certainly streets ahead of the old Mozilla 1.0 default/modern looks. In fact, I'd say the look-and-feel of Firebird is the one other area apart from speed in which I really can see a big improvement - while Mozilla was only ever a power-users browser the Firebird developers seem to have taken some pains to simplify the interface and make it more friendly to the computer-illiterate, whilst still retaining the power-user capabilities.
I've been looking for a new mail client for a while, though I would like to convert (some) of my old mail.
;-) )
Unfortunatly I have not found anything capable of doing it.
I'm using Calypso (which I found after realising outlook sucked) which subsequently died and is now possibly coming back under a new company, irrigardless of which my main reason for wanting a new client now is having something cross platform.
So is there any soluitiuon to my problem or am I going to have to archive all mt old mail off and start again. (not that that's a bad thing for 95% of it
+----------------- | What is the question!
The only annoying thing is that the Qute theme is a work in progress which means some of the icons are the ugly old netscape icons.
Anyone know a Luna Theme for Thunderbird, like the one for Firebird?
The Netscape look and feel absolutely SUCKS. I hoped after their idea of splitting browser and mail that they would finally get more creative. Guess not.
Evolution it is.
Well, no...but pulling off most of the heavy armor, removing the non-essential systems, pulling off the turret (mail), but realizing it's still a perfectly good cannon, and handing it off to a second team to tweak and make into a mobile artillery platform (Thunderbird) leaves them with a fairly light (in comparison) frame, driven by the same engine that's used to driving a much heavier vehicle around. The result is a vehicle that's quite fast, but looks like hell
Why use a standalone email and news broswer? Do the Mozilla people think the people who use their software are going to use Thunderbird and Internet Explorer? Or Thunderbird and Opera?
I really can't stand not using at least Mozilla unless I can't use it for some reason (such as having a new comp not connected to my broadband conn), although I prefer Firebird, which I find alot slicker and smooter to use.
As for Mozilla increasing their share in the broswer market this can only be a good thing!
--
Saying that there's a 33% increase from 1.2% to 1.6% is not sound. Maybe the numbers 1.2% and 1.6% are the results of rounding 1.2499% and 1.5500%, respectively. Whoops, now it's only a 24% increase.
A more correct statement would have been that the increase is between 24% and 43% - that's really everything which can be derived from the given numbers. Remember, numbers without error/uncertainty estimates are almost always useless.
There is a difference, you know...
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
you propably saw konqueror running on cygwin. It is possible, but not as easy as download one package, double-click and it is installed. With the new QT for Apple, The Safari Team (actually old Mozilla developers, wonder why) could get backstapped by its originator KHTML, also running on Konqueror.
(yes this can be compared with sex)
theyare working on a version. the problem is that they need all those small icons that are specific to a mail program so it may tak4e a while...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
I wouldn't be so certain it is lots of people, instead of few LOUD people.
the standards compliance is absolutely fantastic. i haven't used opera, so i can't comment there, but the w3c doesn't define a bordercolor attribute for the table element. nor is there a border/bordercolor attribute on the html td or tr elements. css was introduced to handle robust element borering issues.
Nice fonts in linux! Yipeee! Now if only Firebird and the Main Mozilla branch were compiled with gtk2. GTK 1 is depreacted and should be phased out as soon as humanly possible.
I've been using Thunderbird as my main mail client at home and the office for -- well, it feels like a few months, but it can't be. A while anyway.
Reasons for sticking with it:
Less crashy than Eudora. I was a die-hard Eudora user on the Mac OS 9 and below, but had to switch to Windows at work and was never able to get Eudora to be acceptably stable under Windows 2000. Despite the TBird builds to date being nominally alphas, they have been more reliable for me than release versions of Eudora.
IMAP. As an IMAP client, Thunderbird Just Works. I have no higher praise for an application.
It's not OE. Nuff said.
The killer for me though, is the junk mail filtering. I work for a website (www.cyclingnews.com if anyone's interested) that has its main editorial addresses on every single page. As a result we get vast amounts of spam, and because we're in the address books of hundreds if not thousands of people over the world we also get vast amounts of viruses. Even with filtering at server level that catches most of the junk we're assailed by, we get perhaps 80 or 90 pieces of junk per day, from around 300 emails.
After a few days of teaching Thunderbird what was and was not junk, and whitelisting the people I definitely wanted to hear from, that junk flood is down to a trickle. Skimming subject lines in the Junk folder for likely non-junk is far less onerous than deleting spam after spam till you have an inevitable spam-spasm and delete the wrong thing.
Other features I like:
*The quick sorts provided by the 'View:' and 'Sender or Subject contains:' pop-up menus
*Ability to sort by order received - though I note this seems to be broken in thelatest release.
*Control. I get to decide whether to read mail as plain text or subject myself to some drooling cretin's idea of 'design'. I can turn off loading of remote images. I can view attached content in the message or not (if TBird can handle it, of course). My choice.
That last may seem trivial, but it's surprisingly not. Eudora seems to be randomly unable to display some attached jpgs; Mulberry (a very powerful IMAP client) can't display them at all; persuading OE NOT to show you attached pics... well, I gave up trying; I'm sure it can be done, but grinding through Microsoft's broken idea of a prefs system just to use that disgusting, broken child's-toy email client... fnuh.
Things I'd like to see improved:
Importing from Eudora is clunky. I just switched my wife's email as she was drowning in spam; the imported messages show up as if they were plain text, so you get to see all the code in html messages. Not great.
General speed and responsiveness. It's fine on a fast machine, but the 800 MHz AMD I have at the office chugs a bit.
"backstapped"
What does this work mean? I'm not being a jerk, but your article is potentially interesting and I can't figure out what this phrase means.
"The Safari Team [...] could get backstapped by its originater KHTML"
If you mean "backstabbed", the sentence doesn't make any sense, so I'm guessing you meant "backstopped"? Or "backed up"?
Please help.
Quick question--
I've been using thunderbird for about two months now, and I have one feature that I sorely miss from OE. In OE, I had the machine "syncronize" each folder, so it didn't have to hit the server for each message. How can I make T-bird do the same?
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
You appear to jump from
to
See Is/Ought for your further edification.
Netscape will never again be ready for primetime. There are two reasons for this: IE and Outlook Express comes with every computer on the planet, (or near enough to make no odds) and Netscape's/Mozilla's interface was designed by geeks, for geeks.
Funny... I have switched EVERYONE at my office... both on their desks and at home to mozilla for one tiny little feature....
Popup blocking.
and it's spreading like wildfire... at least 10 users have came back to me for another CD copy of the installer as they have lent out theirs to so many people that their Cd was lost or broken.
enjoy your Microsoft dreamworld... Mozilla will silently and suddenly topple IE... and it cannot be stopped.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Personally I think whoever it was that first decided to use html in email should be shot, hanged and then shot again.
Not just pop-up ads, in my case; but also cookies and even banner ads. Mozilla is just plain better than IE. The only reason it took me as long as it did to convert completely is because I was waiting for someone to program the ALT-D "Address Bar" hotkey into Mozilla.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
Yes, Slashdot has a sampling issue. You tend to only hear the people with extreme opinions on any given subject because most of the rest of everyone had something better to do. Hence the reason that [insert any programming language here] is "THE WORST LANGUAGE EVER!" , and [insert any piece of software here] is "THE MOST BLOATED PIECE OF SHIT EVER!", and [insert any group of people here] are "THE DUMBEST ASSHATS EVER!"
I'm curious, the Sourceforge page says that the KHTML Win32 Native port is licensed under the Apple Public Source License, but I was pretty sure that Konqueror & KHTML are licensed under the GPL. What's going on?
When you lose something irreplaceable, you don't mourn for the thing you lost, you mourn for yourself. - Harpo Marx
In my organization, we've standardized on Mozilla for web browsing - and with great success.
There ARE some problem websites. Verizon used to be a problem, and NStar Energy is still useless.
Happily, virtually all websites that have problems (less than 1%, I might add) are unimportant to the user population.
I wouldn't say M2 (Opera's E-Mail client) was 'great'. It's a bit different (why?), takes a bit of getting used to, and has a long way to go before it can compete with other E-mail clients.
Oh get off your high horse. As if Microsoft never came up with stupid UI/program decisions. The second I start up OE6, MSN messenger decides that it's needed, for no reason, despite it being turned off in the options dialog. How is any reasonable person supposed to know that the "contacts" bar in OE opens up MSN messenger? Certainly isn't immediately obvious (my mail program should not be opening up my IM, particularly not one I don't ever use) to the end user. This took a question to the MSN newsgroups to solve.
And maybe in between your ranting you would've realized that Thunderbird is NOT Mozilla Mail 1.4. This program is geared for the masses, much like Firebird is supposed to be the common man's Mozilla. Maybe you would've even realized that Thunderbird fixes the very problem you're bitching about. No "my sidebar", no grippy to accidentally close the folder list with.
There ARE tangible benefits to moving over to Thunderbird, spam filtering among them. Intangible benefits include not being reliant on Microsoft for everything.
This discussion isn't about Netscape Mail, it's about Mozilla Thunderbird - making almost all of your tirade invalid.
/. readers but not for granny-on-the-telephone.
One of the reasons the Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird projects were started was to concentrate on usability, getting rid of all the extra features which make Moz great for
Specifically Mozilla Thunderbird doesn't have the buttons you're ranting about for your entire post.
There are sure to be other annoyances but this is only a 0.1 release - usability is only going to improve. People I know who have seen Thunderbird find it very easy to use and tend to switch. Do us all a favour and stop recommending IE/OE
I don't personally hate Opera, but I've never been so taken with it that I would be tempted to pay for the adware-free version. And the banners in the "free" version take up far too much screen real-estate to make the latter worth keeping.
I was impress this past weekend that, when I stopped by my parents' house, I noticed that both of my younger brothers and my parents all had Mozilla (be it Mozilla or Phoenix or Firebird) running as their primary browser on their computers. That means I, personally, helped that number jump up 300%. (Well, kind of: counting me as 1 and then, when I told others, it went up to 4. In the grand scheme of things, yeah, 3 more people is nothin, but I'm still spreadin the word!)
Karma: NaN
Are you sure
table { border: 3px dashed blue; }
td { border: 1px solid red; }
Doesn't make the table red and blue?
I like the bookmark manager in Firebird *much* more than the gay ass dialog box in IE. What exactly does Firebird not have that you want?
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
I'm probably going to switch to Firebird/Thunderbird at home from Mozilla. I'm sick and tired of closing Mozilla Mail to discover that it's not REALLY closed. Instead it's still pulling messages off the POP mail server in the background. Which sucks when you want to use your ISP's webmail from work to check on email, only to discover that the mail has now been sucked down to your home PC and is inaccessible.
Stupid feature, and annoying as hell. I can't imagine any valid reason for doing it, or why it's not an option that's easily findable.
Any company which refuses the millions of Mozilla users is no company of mine.
Well, ThinkGeek "refuses" the buisness of the non geek by not offering non geek apparel. Pork producers "refuse" the buisness of everyone who does not eat pork by not offering beef or chicken. Makers of XBox, Playstation2 and Game cube games "refuse" the business of the millions of people who still have an atari 2600.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
It's the same reason people still are hardcore Amiga fans. It's a personal preference not based on quantifiable gains.
Personally I loved Amigas until Doom came out, and I thought Opera was cluttered.
-no broken link
------------
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
no package for rh 73?
I haven't been too crazy about Firebird lately. To me it seems sluggish when compared to Mozilla. It hasn't felt "faster" than Mozilla since the 0.5 release.
I understand that perfectly, but the application separation may have some unknown side-effects. I think that is why they are going safe with 0.1. They don't want to say it is 1.0 version until a lot of people tested it and isolated any wild bugs.
So, I will a while. Mozilla is now my only browser/email application. I can't take the risk (at least not with email - browsers are not so critical).
I have no trouble running it on RH 9. In fact, I've been using Thunderbird for a couple months now without any problems on RH 9, and it's open just behind firebird right now.
And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners.
Berke Breathed
The manager system is aweful. When I try and change the order of the bookmarks or put in separators, they don't drag to the place I drag them to, they don't appear in the same order in the manager as they do in the bookmarks list, etc. Plus, there's not the nice in-box drag-and-drop to manage your bookmarks.
Well no. It is 0.4 percent-points more popular than before, but 33 percents more popular.
/Esben
Quite a difference.
"Nobody really checks their email any more. They just delete their spam"
So? Use the opera browser and a different mail client. What's the problem? Opera and Thunderbird work great together.
Has anyone been able to successfully synchronize the Palm Desktop with Thunderbird? Would someone be so kind as to let me know?
I hate all sigs, even this one.
...a Mozilla geek got laid. This means the sex rate has increased from 0% in the last year to 1% now, an infinite improvement!
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
This business of shipping 0.x "products" is silly. But then, so many open source projects never make it to 1.0.
The Earth spins in a bluish-white blur, itself circling the sun faster than you can track. Mountains shake with a chipmunk squeal, dissolving into the oceans before your eyes. A clock makes a single tick as the second hand moves, and you see that the apes have come down from the trees and are building cities, which just as rapidly disappear.
Time flies.
The idea that "the Old Days" are "when Netscape was being used by the masses" is just staggering.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I'm posting from Opera, so maybe I'm an Opera zealot, but I'll try to be objective.
I don't know why, but Opera just FEELS right ( for me, at least ). They're doing something about usability.
The trouble is: does the difference justifies the price? The answer: less and less. Konqueror, for one, is getting closer all the time.
So, my pleading to Opera is this: you cannot be making money from the browser. Release it as free ( as in beer ) software, and gain marketshare. Make money from embedded, or special editions, or whatever.
You have the quality to wipe the floor with other browsers, but realise that nobody is going to pay for a browser anymore.
Don't let Opera disappear like BeOS!
Best wishes, from a zealot.
This may be redundant but...
Large organisations take time to take up ideas. My employers are now agreed on Mozilla mail and its successors after some delay, but this was largely to do with the absence of a spellchecker at the time.
The spam filtering is the other big attraction. Employees are becoming increasingly offended by and vociferous about porm spam. They expect Something to be Done.
Everyone reading the article using Mozilla, click the onestat link at the bottom of the page.
Presumably that site is included in the survey, and they collect some more Mozilla users...
Thanks, but no thanks.
My mail is held on an IMAP server. So, the best email program for my needs is PC-pine on win32 (closed source). When on linux, use pine (open source).
I like the extra customization ability, the small footprint and the platform independence pine gives me. Attachments are a breeze. Ability to write accents in pine. Good thread support in recent versions (not talking about process/threads). Etc...
Corporate Gadfly
Jonathan Archer: the most beaten up Enterprise captain in Star Trek history
Well, Mozilla and Mozilla Firebird both use Gecko and neither is trampling the other.
I didn't mean this to become a "flame war". I just wanted to point out that percentage of total revenue is a better figure to look at then the gross amount. There is no way that anyone running a typical webstore will have more revenue comming in from users of mozilla than ie, even if mozilla users spend more on average.
And Remeber, Apple's customers are more wealthy and educated than dells or microsofts, but does apple make as much money? There is more to buisness than accounting. PS. I'm a mozilla firebird user. Haven't spent a dime yet today!
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
I'm not a zealot either, but I use it and I COMPLETELY know what you mean. It's mostly the mouse gestures. And yes, I have been told that they work with Mozilla/Firebird, and I've tried it and couldn't get it to work very well, it wasn't very well documented, and frankly, Mozilla on Windows sucks.
As for the ads, I don't really know. I have an 18" LCD and a 21" CRT and I have ads on both of them (I used to used cracks.am to get rid of them, but I realized that it doesn't actually take up ANY space, it's just sort of annoying), and I don't really mind or notice
The browser is ugly, but the UI definitely isn't bad. I can't find any nice skins that I like, so I just deal with what it is. I like it, and the interface doesn't really bother me as I hardly ever used non-maximized windows, anyway.
It's worse than that -- you can't apply percentage growth to percentages. This math assumes the number of internet users hasn't changed. It's probably ballpark correct given that internet users isn't changing that fast, but it's like saying that 10% of households have 2 kids in 1900 and then 15% of households in 2000 have 2 kids, so the number of households with 2 kids grew by 50%, when in fact, there are twice as many households, so there were 100K 2 kid households in 1900 and 300K in 2000, actually 200% growth.
we're not talking about globe-time, or even human-lifespan-time, we're talking about internet time. netscape's popularity was A LONG time ago.
I-lookup hijacked a neighbor's IE. A porn popup trap every time she started IE, with a new popup every five minutes if she successfully closed out of the trap, whether or not IE was still running.
You don't see that with the lizard.
You also don't hear about Sobig email worm equivalents for Mozilla. This is a cute one: all you have to do is have this one arrive on top of your list of mail in outlook or outlook express and if you have a preview window, you are now a spam proxy!
How did this factually accurate description merit 3 troll mods?
That works fine for me in Win32 v Firebird v0.6.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
There is a way to patch Dillo with SSL support.
And yes, Dillo is very speedy and small, great for systems with limited RAM.
If you need a smaller browser with frames support there is always links-graphic. Though not as speedy as dillo, it is faster than Firebird and it has SSL support built right in. One caveat is that links-graphic does not support cut and paste and dillo does.
For basic day to day browsing I use Firebird. Admittedly it is not fast on my Playstation 2 Linux kit, but I think it has the best compromise between features and performance. And tabbed browsing is one feature I really like. I also prefer Firebirds simpler UI to that of Mozilla.
Steve, I envy your screens, but in my three 15 inch CRTs getting rid of the ad is a blessing.
The other blessing is that works exactly the same way in Linux or Windows.
Cheers,