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DefCon WiFi Shootout Winner Announced
devn2k writes "At the first annual WiFi Shootout at DefCon in Las Vegas, Adversarial Science Lab won the contest to shoot a wireless signal across the Nevada desert, with a distance of 35.2196 miles. The antenna was built from metal poles, window screen mesh, cardboard, duct tape, and aluminum foil! According to the official contest page, the antenna was designed the night before the contest, its component parts were purchased for $98 at Home Depot, and the next day it was built completely from scratch in the desert, on the side of the mountain, in the rain."
... If you ask me. 98 Dollars of crap you find at a Home Improvement store makes an antenna that blasts across as small desert.
Ingenuity++;
I take my hat off to these guys.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
the antenna was designed the night before the contest, its component parts were purchased for $98 at Home Depot, and the next day it was built completely from scratch in the desert, on the side of the mountain, in the rain.
This, and watching the US team whip the Brits on Junkyard Wars, is the reason that I'm proud to be an American.
I think I'm about to cry...
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Damn, I guess for US$98 you *can* change the weather :).
The antenna was built from metal poles, window screen mesh, cardboard, duct tape, and aluminum foil!
I think I just felt Procter and Gambles stock dropping (I mean those things aren't good for eating; that's for sure.).
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
You forgot to add "...while walking uphill, in a blinding snowstorm..." followed by the obligatory "... and we liked it!".
it was built completely from scratch in the desert, on the side of the mountain, in the rain while walking up hill with no shoes.
I couldn't move a single bit of data between two WinXP Home systems sitting RIGHT NEXT to each other! The damn thing doesn't support netwroking...
-
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
with a distance of 35.2196 miles
That's one whopping distance! Isn't the radius of Earth about 40.000 km? Or did they point the antenna in the wrong direction?
keep frying your brain cells guys
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights
it was built completely from scratch in the desert, on the side of the mountain, in the rain.
Why buy $98 worth of equipment at Home Depot and take the trouble of making tinfoil emitters when you can just dance to get rain in the desert?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Nobody expects the Adversarial Science Lab! Our main construction material is Metal Poles!
Metal poles and Window Screen Mesh!
Two construction materials! Our Two Weapons are Metal Poles, Window Screen Mesh, and Cardboard!
Our Three Main Construction Materials are Metal Poles, Window Screen Mesh, Cardboard! And Duct Tape!
Among our CHIEF building materials are such diverse materials as Metal Poles, Window Screen Mesh, Cardboard, Duct Tape, and Aluminum Foil!
Oh, bother. I'll come again.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
I was at defcon, and it was 9 million friggin' degrees all weekend (I have the sunburn to prove it).
Unless of course they did it before I awoke at noon each day...
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
Notice that the shape of the winning antenna is a pyramid? There are a lot of theories regarding electromagnetism and the pyramid shape, including a bunch on how the ancient egyptians figured out how to utilize these electromagnetic properties, which is (supposedly) why the pyramids were built that way.
If you want to get kooky, it can also point to the extra terrestrial origins of ancient egyptian civilization.
Why do I h8 apple?
... big f'in antenna on the roof of my house... community wide network... KING OF BAYSIDE QUEENS! ALL HAIL THE WIFI GOD! really though, these "do it at home" projects just get my blood pumpin'...
fact: microsoft > linux
Alvarion is not Swedish (in fact, it's basically BreezeCom in new clothing), but the record was set with the help of SSC, the Swedish Space Corporation. Slashdot story link here.
Money for nothing, pix for free
"According to the official contest page, the antenna was designed the night before the contest, its component parts were purchased for $98 at Home Depot, and the next day it was built completely from scratch in the desert, on the side of the mountain, in the rain."
In the privacy of your own home, between the hours of 11:55 and 12:00 PM, on the 4th of July, in any year, during a hail storm....with a distance of 35.2196 miles.
It was only 35.2194 miles.
They exagerate their claims by nearly 13 inches!!!
Now that's bad luck.
Photo of anntena and team. Its look pretty cool.
-- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
... for the metric users
Was it up hill both ways too?
Whilst the homemade winner was pretty good, im a bit suprised by some of the commercial entries.
eg: "Using a Stock Hyperlink 15dBi Omni at the base camp, and a stock Hyperlink 24dBi parabolic grid at the field site, with a confirmed distance of 10.1625 miles"
the WAFreenet (Perth, Western Australia) has several links of 18 to 22km (11.25 to 13.75 miles) - 30mW Clients with home modded 24dBi dishes (galaxy mods), connenecting to a 30mW AP with 14dB Waveguide. These links are about 8 - 10 SNR IIRC.
Our best is a link to the same AP from Rottnest island - 46 km! One connection was using an ipaq + cantenna with 2SNR, and another was with a modded satellite dish (overpowered at about 40dB EIRP), not sure of it's signal performance.
Several groups in the eastern states of Australia have achieved similar resulst.
If I only got 16km with a commercial 24dBi panel, i'd ask for my money back!
I believe everything except the rain part.
The shape of the pyramids is fine - IF you're trying to pick up a signal from the center of the earth... the entire angled shape of the horn is designed to focus the inbound radiation smoothly towards the center (peak) of the pyramid shape, where a little tiny antenna actually receives the radiation. Somehow I doubt you can pick up much RF thru 3000 miles of rock. And it's awful hard to beam-steer with a multi-trillion-pound pile of stacked rocks.
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Hooking this antenna up to my WiFi card will open about a 1000 new WAPs in Boston. Free internet here I come!
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Hm, the adversarial science lab site seems to be /.'ed..
On another note, pringles tubes make very good single-axis antennas for wi-fi applications, I've managed to get about a 3 mile range using them!
NASA scientists make fun of Slashdot users for unit conversion errors...
You meant to say "circumference" instead of "radius". The confusion really stems from the fact that some countries use "." where Americans use "," and vice versa, which inevitably leads to bizarre slashdot arguments and satellites running into things.
You are correct in that it is roughly forty thousand km all the way around the ball. The article was trying to indicate a distance of roughly 35 miles, but I can imagine how comical it would look to a US reader if they saw a headline reading "wifi link extended 35,200 miles with duct tape and chicken wire!"
35 miles in the desert might equate to the other side of a decent-sized college campus. That still might be pretty impressive...
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
Duct tape and rain don't mix.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
How much is that measured in sane units? Like the royal dutch kilometer?
And are you saying thirty five thousand miles or thirty five point.. miles?
If it's thirty five miles, then isn't .2196 a bit excessive?
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
> The antenna was built from metal poles, window screen mesh, cardboard, duct tape, and aluminum foil!
And the deep knowledge on how to put these materials together, how to calculate the parameters and how to trim the antenna to achieve the maximum adaptation to the transmitter/receiver.
Analog electronics is the art of adding 1 to 1 to get always a result near to 2 but never an exact 2, and microwaves follow this principle literally: one tenth of a millimeter error can make the difference from the best antenna and the worst one. These guys did a darn good job.
The once ubiquitous C-band satellite dishes make killer 2.4GHz antennas. Coffee can feed with hairpin and a skyline view of the city = zippy /. participation. These things can be had, usually free for the asking from suburban yards and in exchange for a case or two of beer if the house is on wheels. With a 200mw output power from your card, if my math is right, the effective radiate power will be at least 200Watts for an 8' dish.
...is that http://www.adversarialsciencelab.net/ has not only withstood a slashdotting, but opened an unrequested window under Mozilla!
Mozilla team: you've found your nemesis.
From the article: Those distances were verified on the spot by contest staff using GPS coordinates and a verbal encryption scheme at both the base camp location and at the field location.
Just a guess: Eam-tay ot-way eporting-ray, urrently-cay irty-thay iles-may est-way, oger-ray.
I wonder if they could calculate the gain of the ant. I'd love to see that.
double the output for every 3db... Sounds like a lot of sterile geeks in the desert now.
Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
Sig changed for readability by G.W.
We used a mouth full of partially chewed gum, a can of chips and some half bent paper clips.
In the rain!? Everybody knows duct tape won't stick on a wet surface!
it almost cancels out the smugness...
While this exercise was done for fun and games did anyone look at the FCC regulations concerning 802.11? 802.11 falls under part 15 of the rules and I'm sure using such a hi gain antenna put the ERP (effective radiated power) over the limits for that unlicenced service. Not that I'm trying to ruin someones fun but the FCC could issue a NAL (notice of aparent liability) over this.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
.....and one baby zebra
Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire.
With such a high gain antenna (they talked about +30dB), you'd better keep your balls away from the radiations. :)
I also wonder how many birds were fried that way...
I was driving in from CA on Friday, arrived Vegas around 2pm. There were several squalls, some resulting in significant precipitation. And every bloody idiot on the road slowing down to 50mph. For the record, tempratures were mild this year. You thought this was hot, you shoulda been there in previous years. That damned tent they used to have on the roof was misery incarnate. The AC units could never get it much lower than a few degrees below ambient, and when ambient is pushing 100F, well... I've heard through a reliable source this was the last year on the contract at the Alexis, so hopefully they'll move the con to a more agreeable location. Prefereably not Vegas, but a better hotel in Vegas would be a start. Why anybody wants to hold a con in Vegas in July-August is beyond me. Hold cons in Vegas in winter, in the summer put them in Monterey or someplace nice.
ehintz
Not only did they need to know what to do, they had to do it to close tolerances.
You can ruin the pattern of an antenna by putting in irregularities a fraction of a wavelength high. One wavelength at WiFi frequencies is about 12 centimeters. The usual rule of thumb is to be smooth within 1/10 of a wavelength.
Pretty good for aluminum foil.
Some of the WiFi channels are within the amateur radio allocation, governed by Part 97. They could have run a powerful tight beam legally by complying with the rules for the amateur radio service.
:-)
If both ends were run by someone with a ham radio license, and if they used channel 1, and if they didn't attempt communication with the general public, and if they didn't use obscene or indecent language, and if they turned off encryption, and if they didn't forward data for third parties from other countries that don't have third-party traffic agreements with the US, and if they identified transmissions with their callsigns every 10 minutes and at the end of each transmission, and if they didn't transact any business or communicate on behalf of an employer, then it could have been legal.
Simple, really
There's got to be something on the web dedicated to TV antennas. I've disconnected my satellite dish (feel stupid paying $40 a month to watch commercials every 15 minutes) but my Terk aerial antenna leaves much to be desired. Are there any designs to make a decent (and compact, and possibly even amplified) TV antenna at home?
Agreed. DisneyDefcon was not so fun. I got shut out of 2 talks on Friday, it did not make me a happy man. If they do continue to use the AP, the value of Blackhat will go up; I've never been shut out of a talk at Blackhat.
ehintz
I'm sure their success is attributed more to knowing what you are doing in a McGyver'ish way than simply hacking.
Yeah, antennas don't respond well to guesswork.
Most people don't know that an antenna rings electrically the way a tuning fork rings mechanically. There's only a very limited frequency range that an antenna will handle well.
On top of that, as the frequency increases, radio waves behave more and more like light. And problems like stray capacitance and stray inductance - tiny values in farads and henries - become very important design considerations as the frequency increases.
But a well-designed amateur antenna can be very capable. The radio waves don't care if you make the elements out of silver encrusted canine feces, if they're the right lengths.
UHF TV band, around 450MHz. Design is extremely critical here. But by doing a little math first, I designed and built a 12-element Yagi (looks like an ordinary rooftop TV antenna but with more elements) which is tuned to channel 29. It's very directional, meaning I have to be pointed within a few degrees of the transmitter. But I can also watch WUTV Fox 29 from Buffalo, in Ottawa Canada, without shelling out for cable. Cost? Scrap of wood, old coat hanger wire trimmed to within 1/16" of the design dimensions, plastic tubing and clips to hold the elements to the board, old 75-300 ohm matching transformer gutted for its balun and soldered directly to the driven elements and feeding coax. Essentially free. Not waterproof, so it lives in my attic.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
It's amazing to me how much "WiFi" stuff resembles ancient and modern DX Rituals in the Ham community. Good job guys. THat's a heck of an antenna, but it's not that old of a design. I know a ham who uses a similar design on 10GhZ and 5 watts or so.
What an achievement?
Splchker anyone?
???? Huh? Mica is about the worst thing you could possibly use for an antenna. Mica is commonly used as a dielectric in capacitors, it is an extremely good insulator as seen with some mica tape stats here
It looks like 5G Wireless took the commercial category at the wifi shootout---14.8 mile coverage using their commercially available antenna. I'm not how widely known this is but Mcdonalds has a pilot in upstate NY according to this --feb 03 http://www.wirelessweek.com/index.asp?layout=artic le&articleid=CA274448
trades for a few pennies on the OTC bulletin board under FGWC
were any of these other wifi shootout companies public?
"CATEGORY 5 - Enhanced power, (omni or directional) commercially made antenna
Base Camp GPS Coordinates: N36 39.698, W114 55.431
Field Site GPS Coordinates: N36 52.523, W114 57.389
At the base camp: Apple G4 800 MHz Notebook, with 10.2.6 ftpserver, 5G single panel AP, 3-foot tripod, 15-foot mast, angle ~150.
At the field site: 4ms 4.26 Mbps, Toshiba Satellite 1135-s1552, P4M 2.0 GHz 512 meg ram, Windows XP Pro ftp command prompt only, 5G CPE 800 mW, 16 dbi circular polarity antenna, RSSI -67 dbm, Noise floor -125 dbm, 10-foot mast, 3-foot tripod, AGL ~2 feet.
With a confirmed distance of 14.8951 miles the winner is:
5G Wireless Communications, Inc.
http://home.earthlink.net/~wifi-shootout/
It looks like 5G Wireless took the commercial category at the wifi shootout---14.8 mile coverage using their commercially available antenna. I'm not sure how widely known this is but Mcdonalds has a pilot in upstate NY according to this --feb 03 http://www.wirelessweek.com/index.asp?layout=artic le&articleid=CA274448
trades for a few pennies on the OTC bulletin board under FGWC
were any of these other wifi shootout companies public?
"CATEGORY 5 - Enhanced power, (omni or directional) commercially made antenna Base Camp GPS Coordinates: N36 39.698, W114 55.431 Field Site GPS Coordinates: N36 52.523, W114 57.389 At the base camp: Apple G4 800 MHz Notebook, with 10.2.6 ftpserver, 5G single panel AP, 3-foot tripod, 15-foot mast, angle ~150. At the field site: 4ms 4.26 Mbps, Toshiba Satellite 1135-s1552, P4M 2.0 GHz 512 meg ram, Windows XP Pro ftp command prompt only, 5G CPE 800 mW, 16 dbi circular polarity antenna, RSSI -67 dbm, Noise f
Raining? In the Desert? on the side of a mountain? HMMMM.Must have been the windward side of the mountain I guess.
I had to walk 2 miles to school with my sister on my shoulders through the woods in the middle of winter too. And no shoes.
If I had actually showed up to defcon (ride bailed) I would have been able to get a far greater distance. Congrats to the winners, but there 35 miles is nothing to what I'm capable of doing.
Not that much of the year, obviously, and the total annual rainfall is low (that's why it's called a desert, of course!) but when it does, it really rains. You didn't think the all the drainage ditches and culverts and things under the 15 freeway were there for fun, did you? Think flash floods. Think your car being carried off in a torrent. It happens.
It's worth noting that we could have gone a lot further than the 35 miles we did achieve. We had some terrain problems. We ran out of road and it turns out a Chevy Cavalier makes a horrible offroad vehicle. Plus it didn't help any that one of the teams was trying to jam us when we were trying to get our final readings.
... that the US patent and law system are fucked up!
I can only applaud the innovation and tenacity of these guys. It's a good thing they aren't government contractors, we'd all have to worry, as it is (from many years of personal experience), the US government is lucky when it can bounce a basketball near a hoop, much less a Wi-Fi Signal 35+ miles, and in bad terrain and adverse weather. That is some s**t hot hack boys. Good on ya.
" My next house will have no kitchen - just vending machines and a large trash can. "
Now that is retarded.
If someone writes 2.000,00 - I have a damn good idea of what they mean.
If you write 11/7/2003 - I have no idea what you meant.
It is the USA that is backward.
PS. I am australian so I agree with you on the numbers notation - you can keep your attitude though.
Q.
Insert Signature Here
"Yes, yes, I know that, Sidney
-- Gary Larson
Q.
Insert Signature Here
And what about wi-fi competition over water?
Doesn't broadcasting a radio signal over water actually boost the distance you can get? I vaguely remember reading something about radio communications and ships... Can any radio comminucations experts shed some light on this? (Excuse the terrible pun.)
All these theories origin from a prank by R. Wood bless him in an old issue of the Science magazine. They are unfounded and have nothing to do with reality. Quoting Wood from a later interview (by memory so quote may be garbled a bit): "If I knew how manu idiots will take this April's fool joke for granted and repeat it by now I would have chosen another subject".
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/