North Korea Introduces 'Secure' E-mail

An anonymous reader sent in a strange little story running over at ZD that discusses North Korea's new secure email system. There's a lot of strange bits in there about trained North Korean hackers, and the fact that North Korea's news agency is hosted in Japan.

Comments

Time-honored facts...

[typobox43]

Again, they're just proving that the best security method is just to not let anyone on the system at all.

Re:Time-honored facts...

[cgenman]

Don't make fun of their guaranteed security. This does a great job of guaranteeing the security of Kim Jong Il.

Re:Time-honored facts...

[bluethundr]

Again, they're just proving that the best security method is just to not let anyone on the system at all.

Very true! How can you 0wn a box that...isn't there! I saw this interesting report on 60 minutes (an abbreviated version of it can be found here, and the full story I beleive can be found here, but for a fee to Big Bill) a number of months ago showing this interesting photo of the Korean peninsula. It kind of reminds you of the hoax photo of the 2003 blackout, except that I suspect the Korean photo to be legit. Assuming it it is, maybe NK should start thinking about how to get power to most of their city (I could be mistaken, but I think Pyonyang is their only city and even THAT was just built "for show") and towns before they start getting their boxes online to trade e-mail!

But setting up a "secure e-mail" system for boxes that don't exist is the same sort of logic you would expect from a country that has traffic cops in the heart of their city directing traffic...that ISN'T THERE! It's an absouletly amazing society. Crazy. Loopy. But fascinating at the same time.

I saw that bit about the "traffic cop" in the same 60 minutes report and in it there was also someone from the state department claiming that at the time there was probably 5 machines on the Internet in the entire county!

Re:Time-honored facts...

[davesag]

maybe NK should start thinking about how to get power to most of their city

I believe they did have some ideas, then the US said they'd nuke them if they tried.

Re:Time-honored facts...

[HeghmoH]

Perhaps if they would halt their nuclear weapons and long-range missile programs, the other nations of the world would consider the case in a more favorable light.

Re:Time-honored facts...

[davesag]

perhaps they are scared? i'm not saying North Korea is at all good, but you've got to see the broader context. The US screwed them with sanctions and overt/covert war. the USSR vanished along with all their oil imports, food imports, aid etc. the US has been threatening to nuke them, reneging on agreements to provide clean power etc. what else the hell would you expect them to do? don't believe most of what you read in the popular press.

Re:Time-honored facts...

[fishing]

Gee... I wonder what the US government would say to the suggestion:

"Perhaps if they would halt their nuclear weapons and long-range missile programs, the other nations of the world would consider the case in a more favorable light."

I think, quite rightly, they'd say "go to hell".

Re:Time-honored facts...

[smallfeet]

Forget North Korea, what's up with Canada?

Re:Time-honored facts...

[HeghmoH]

The US isn't simultaneously whining about getting handouts for electricity and food. North Korea is free to do whatever they want if they wish to remain completely isolated, but this thread was about them having no electricity. Because their Great Leader is so fucked up, and their economy is so fucked up, their only real chance for either enough food or enough electricity is outside help. And outside help will not be forthcoming until they abandon their nuclear weapons program and stop shooting missiles through the airspace of neighboring countries during tests.

Re:Time-honored facts...

[bilgebag]

Why are some countries allowed nuclear power and weapons and not others then? Where do you live?

Umm

[Anonymous Coward]

Secure email in a communist state?

Re:Umm

[sm0yby]

Sure! "You can trust us, because we don't trust you." (Isn't that how it is in the NGSCB (Palladium) world, though?)

DictatorMail.com ?

[grub]

How the system (likely) works:

The government assigns you a password.

You send email, people send you email.

You sleep well knowing that your email can only be read by the sender, recipient and.. that.. man.. with the rubber hose.

To me it sounds like Kim Jong Il is getting even more paranoid. He's wanting to control (and snoop) all email in within his borders for fear of net-savvy citizens daring to send subversive email. Pretty soon he'll probably start shooting people with glasses ("intellectuals") as Pol Pot did in Cambodia.

Hint to Kim Jong Il, try feeding your millions of starving children before promising them a corrupt email system few of them will ever live to see.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[ObviousGuy]

They don't even have Internet access in North Korea, much less email as we know it.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Anonymous Coward]

They have computers in North Korea?!!!

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[KrispyKringle]

I think for the most part you are right, but I'm not convinced that this is just a move to be able to snoop on all e-mail. In communist countries like North Korea or Cuba, many services are provided by the government or by government subcontracters, as is the case in the States with public utilities. The reach, though, is far broader than of our public utilities, covering media like TV and radio, telecom and telephones, etc.

It may very well be that Kim Jonh Il feels that Internet access is critical to his nation's development (as many Americans feel about promoting third-world development in general--teach a man to fish versus simply giving a handout) and is trying to promote it through government sponsorship in the form familiar in his economy.

I'm not defending him, but there may very well be more here than you suggest.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[gl4ss]

hardly any news to all..

what's news is that they're even implementing anything, for anybody. i wouldn't have thinked that they would bother.

the horribility is that a horrible system doesn't really need mega technology(so being afraid of technology because of it might deprive you from your rights is pretty stupid, all that's needed for that is that the wrong guy is telling what to do). an evil(stupid) system only needs snitches, wanabes and just few evil people(tm). sure, total brainwashing helps to keep it under control but that's not necessary even.

though.. they sure got some good(horrible, but good) jokes brewed up there. like the national library(guess which guys are the stated authors of most books?).

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a regime that forces its athletes to shut curtains on their buses when traveling in foreign countries because they might have to bear the sight of all the unspeakable horrors in capitalist countries if those windows were open. Horrors like traffic, I guess.

At any rate, the last thing the North Korean government wants is an online citizenry.

This latest press release by the Japanese North Korean contingent is just more floundering of a sadly dying nation.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hear in North Korea we have bit of Internet but it all controled by ruling party. We had to use anonymus proxy to use internet without ruling party seeing what we look at and say. Kim Jung-Il is terrible man and has no respect for tradition or North Korea people. He is sick but protected by army he made. sorry for my bad english.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they dont com when my family eats our dinner. boiled dog is double plus yummy.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[sco08y]

It may very well be that Kim Jonh Il feels that Internet access is critical to his nation's development

Or it could just be another of the whims of a demented lunatic.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[rruvin]

It may very well be that Kim Jonh Il feels that Internet access is critical to his nation's development

Yes, that must be what Kim Jong Il feels.

I wonder when he'll start feeling that not starving his people is also critical to his nation's development.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[mirko]

Do not worry about me, my family survived to Tito's dictatorship.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Alsee]

Horrors like traffic, I guess.

List of "unspeakable horrors" they must be protected from witnessing:
BMW's
Jordache jeans
Walkman radios
Fast food restaurants
Street lights
Public and residential telephones
Home electrictity
Indoor plumbing
Food

The sight of those items could be quite traumatic.

Unfortunately I'm not joking about anything on that list. I will address electricity and food in particular. Take a look at this NASA image: The Earth at night. It shows man-made light sources, effectively a combination of population density and development level. North Korea and South Korea have essentially identical enviornments, resources, and climate and similar population levels. North Korea is a black hole with an amazingly sharp line at the North/South border. No street lights, no electrictity, nothing.

North Korea has lost a signifigant fraction of it's population to starvation, roughly 1.7% of the population dying each year to starvation. That starvation is primarily because their economy is in shambles and they are diverting about 30% of their gross national product to supporting the worlds third-largest army. (China is #1 and U.S. is #2) Most countries only spend about 3% of their GNP supporting a military. That 30% level is crushing and leaves no money for roads, farming equipment, or even food.

North Korea is in the depths of paranoid isolation. They believe they need that army to prevent imminent invasion. They have stated their desire to use that army to "liberate" South Korea. Considering the 1.7% yearly starvation rate and considering the satallite photo, somehow I don't quite think South Korea has any desire for that sort of "liberation".

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Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[nazsco]

He's [Kim Jong Il] wanting to control (and snoop) all email in within his borders

Maybe he's envy of bush and fbi's toys, who's been snooping your mail for ages.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Guppy06]

"At any rate, the last thing the North Korean government wants is an online citizenry."

I think that's the least of Pyongyang's worries. Kinda hard to get your computer online when you can't even turn your computer on. Computers need electricity, donchaknow.

Let's see... we could either abide by this treaty we have with the US and get nuclear power plants, or we can steal the technology, set us up The Bomb and ensure dissidents never have the electricity needed for communications more complicated than two tin cans and a piece of string in one fell swoop!

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Reziac]

I've been given to understand that the reason North Korea has such a large standing army, is because only in the military can you count on being fed halfway regularly. So everyone who can joins the army, primarily because it's the best way to get their daily rice.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Reziac]

The lights image finally downloaded... (well, I wanted an updated copy anyway :) Geez, you could draw lines on it where North Korea's borders lie. And if anything, it's "darker" there than on the old image I've got from 3 years ago. This is not progress.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[andrewmc]

I understand you're making a serious point, but I can't help laughing at how you've listed "Fast food restaurants" and actual "Food" separately...

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Alsee]

First let me revise the 30% figure I gave, the CIA world fact book reports North Korea spending 33.9% of Gross Domenstic Product on their military. US spends 3.2%.

----------

While what you said is perfectly true, you looked at it from the employee perspective. Now look at it from the employer perspective. The government decides how many soldiers it is willing to employ. Each soldier it hires means one less worker in the economy manufacturing goods, supplying services, or growing rice. Each soldier it hires is an employee that must recieve training, that must be supplied with equipment, that must be paid, that must be fed. The government can only train, supply, pay, and feed soldiers by commandeering (taxing) those services, goods, money, and rice from the rest of the population.

Nearly one thrid of the entire economy is diverted to the army. For every three bags of rice you grow one is seized and goes to the army. For every $300 you earn $100 is taxed and goes to the army. The same goes for anything and everything you earn, grow, build, or mine.

That is above and beyond of the usual taxes you pay to run the rest of the government. However much you earn yearly, figure out 30.7% of that. Now imagine adding that figure to your existing taxes.

Actually the impact would be even worse than that example indicates - the economy has a multiplier effect built in. Consider the people who are paying you your income - they get hit with the 30.7% tax hike too. They have that much less money to pay you with. The people who pay your employer also have that much less money give, and on and on. That is the multiplier effect. Everyone's gross paycheck would be divided by 3 or worse. So first you get hit with a massive paycut THEN your taxes are hit with 27% bump.

The entire US economy would fall apart. It would make the Great Depression look like a hiccup. The Soviet Union collapse was largely due to Cold War military spending - and that was at around 16% of GDP. North Korea's 33.9% level is absolutely crushing. One of North Korea's primary exports is large arms - particularly missles.

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Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Alsee]

I can't help laughing at how you've listed "Fast food restaurants" and actual "Food" separately

Thanks, it was quite intentional. First I painted it as the cliche of communist propaganda against "capitalist pigs" (fast food), then jar the reader with the reality of "food" :)

-

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[DF5JT]

" First let me revise the 30% figure I gave, the CIA world fact book reports North Korea spending 33.9% of Gross Domenstic Product on their military. US spends 3.2%."

What is it that you are trying to tell us?

The US spends some 350 Billion USD (give or take a few) on the military and that excludes anything the CIA, NSA, DHS, Border Patrol and the rest of the semi-military have in their own budgets and it does not contain the lumpy 87 Billion for the Iraq war.

It's a lot more interesting to compare military spending with education spending or to see it in context of the entire budget.

Read http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget and weep.

Just to give you an idea of the dimensions:

The US spends 60 Billion USD on education. Germany, which has about one third of the US' pouplation spends some 110 Billion USD.

Do us all a favor and get down from your high horse.

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Reziac]

Good points -- people forget that money used in one place has to come from some other place, it doesn't just magically appear. So if 30% of the GNP, and I'd guess around 50-60% of food production (since the military eat better than the common folk), is going to support the military, it's that much less left for everyone and everything else, with a downward spiral as ever more starving people decide a uniform beats a body bag.

If 16% was enough to overload the Soviet Union (but remembering that it had a broader economic base and more raw wealth than North Korea), at what point does North Korea reach total collapse??

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Alsee]

point does North Korea reach total collapse??

Past tense. It did collapse. That's why 1.7% of their population has been dying of starvation year after year after year. Something like 10% of the population in 6 years. It's just that they are entirely isolated and the ruling party retains an iron grip. Total government control over information. Total blackout of outside news sources. North Korea news is right out of the book 1984. The "news items" are all reports of factory workers exceeding quotas in the heroic effort to protect their homeland from the threat of imperialist aggressors. Someone else posted a sample of North Korean news - it's a real hoot.

-

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Reziac]

Yeah, that's pretty collapsed in terms of being a viable situation, but I was wondering more like -- how much longer can it survive before it falls apart to the point that internal control is lost?

Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Alsee]

Do us all a favor and get down from your high horse.

You didn't understand a thing I said. The PERCENTAGES of Gross Domestic Product are critical. Ok, you are more comfortable working with actual dollar amounts than percentages, I'll write it out in dollars.

You quote the US spends 350 billion dollars on the military. If the US were to spend the same way North Korea spends, the US would be spending THREE POINT SEVEN TRILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR on it's military. If the US were like North Korea it would have over 14.5 million active soldiers and 58 million more in reserves.

Try to imagine that - if the US blew $3.7 trillion per year on that monsterous army. The US governemnt would have to raise taxes by an extra $3.35 trillion per year. It would mean $12,000 in new taxes per person. It would mean $48,000 in new taxes on a mother and father with two children.

The entire economy would collapse. People would be starving to death. That's exactly what's happening in North Korea. A rather small and extremely poor country is crushed under the burden of supporting the worlds third largest army. Almost one person in fifty dying of starvation each and every year.

THAT is what I am trying to say. One in ten of North Koreans DROPPED DEAD of starvation over a ten year period. Think about that. How many people do you know? Family, friends, coworkers, aquaintances, roughly how many? Take that number and divide by ten. That's how many of them you'd have watched starve to death in the last six years.

You accuse me of being on a high horse. Ha.

It's basic economics. The North Korean government is crushing the economy under the burden of maintaining the worlds third largest army. North Korea - a country with a population of 22 million people - has a far far larger army than Germany with a population of 82 million, a larger army than India, a larger army than Russia, a larger army than any country except China and the US.

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Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Alsee]

No clue, most of the population is thoroughly indoctrinated. They see their leader like national father-figure, dear beloved leader. Remember, this is ultra-traditional asian culture. The father is absolute and unquestioned head of the household. They think of the country as a "body" and the governemnt is the "head". It is the "natural order of things". There is no thought to question the "natural order", the body just does what the head directs. It's a very alien psychology. Think of Japan in WWII but even more so. Before The Bomb was dropped the Japanese were training every man, woman, and small child to fight the expected american invastion on the beaches. Training them to fight with pointed sticks. And everyone just accepted it as natural and good for small children to do this for Honor and for Patriotism and for the Divine Emperor. Even after dropping the Two Bombs, they still didn't want to surrender if it meant dishonoring the Divine Emperor. The US agreed to let the Emperor to save face and remain as Emperor.

The leadership is quite paranoid and in control of the world's third largest arm. They have enough artillary to pulverize the South Korean capital in minutes (Seoul is only a few miles from the border). They have everything entrenched deep underground. They have been digging tunnels under the border. They may already have nukes. Forget Iraq, forget Isreal/Palestine, forget Al-queda, North Korea is psychotic international handgrenand and the pin fell out long ago. Everyone is terrified to poke it with a stick.

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Re:DictatorMail.com ?

[Reziac]

That's the picture I have of their national psychology, all right, as generated by a very old and entrenched cultural mindset. Not so much a matter of when it'll implode, but more like when the hive will erupt. I've sometimes wondered if only pressure from China has prevented them from long since overruning the southern border. After all, when you can field that many warm bodies, eventually the opposition on the ground WILL run out of bullets.

Complete Privacy...

[DaRat]

Of course they can guarantee complete privacy: after the security forces pick up the sender and the recipient and disappear them forever, no one will ever know what was written in the email.

Re:Complete Privacy...

[dagg]

How many Internet users, or even how many computer users there are in North Korea, remains unknown, although an Associated Press wire agency report on the email service said that few are believed to have any access. Leader Kim Jong II is known to be online, and has repeatedly mentioned the importance of computer technology.

There is complete privacy because Leader Kim Jong II is the only one allowed online.

Re:Complete Privacy...

[ErikTheRed]

after the security forces pick up the sender and the recipient and disappear them forever

If only we can get spammers in on this....

Re:Complete Privacy...

[Erik K. Veland]

And why shouldn't he be the only one allowed on the internet? He invented it after all...

Off Black list? Nope...

[RedHat Rocky]

If this is North Korea's attempt to get off my black list, it's a failure.

Is that where the Iraqi information minister ended up? :)

Re:Off Black list? Nope...

[KrispyKringle]

South Korea is probably who you're thinking of. I've never seen North Korean spam. As the article points out, most North Koreans probably don't own computers.

Re:Off Black list? Nope...

[RedHat Rocky]

APNIC just says Korea, that's good enough for me. Oh, KP (Korea, Democratic People's Republic) would be North Korea? My bad...

Just because most North Koreans don't have Internet access doesn't mean there aren't machines to exploit for SPAM purposes. I'll keep an eye out for KP.

Someone mod me Stupid. :)

Re:Off Black list? Nope...

[Guppy06]

"Is that where the Iraqi information minister ended up?"

Can't be. If he was there, I'm sure DPRK would have something more creative to say than "yeah, we got nukes." Maybe amusing little tidbits about capitalist infidels comitting suicide against the line of demarkation or somethin glike that.

Re:Off Black list? Nope...

[DF5JT]

"Someone mod me Stupid. :)"

You are doing just fine.

Secure from whom?

[lisany]

So let me get this straight: In a dictatorship they're letting the peons communicate "securely" ? I call B.S.! Who wants to take a bet on how long it will take for people with access to start planning a revolt (and then be promptly executed)?

Re: Echelon

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, give it a fancy marketing name like "Echelon" and it's ok, but some crazed ruthless dictator does the same thing and we call him paranoid.

North Korean Insanity

[siskbc]

To me it sounds like Kim Jong Il is getting even more paranoid.

You think that's a little loopy? Check out Kim's official policy on triplets.

Yeah, he's nuckin' futs.

Re:North Korean Insanity

[hummassa]

Someone is nuts if it believes a site with a banner "china and iraq knew about 9/11"... Oh, boy.

Re:North Korean Insanity

[Crockerboy]

but if its on the innernet, it must be true!1!!12!

Re:North Korean Insanity

[Dr Caleb]

Yea, and on the bottom of the page is a link to "Elvis meets Nixon". But I don't see any advertising from Tin Foil manufacturers..

Re:North Korean Insanity

[Anonymous Coward]

Newsmax isn't a source I'd quote. It's your typical frothing-at-the-mouth partisan propaganda outlet that'll print anything that it fits their agenda, no matter how ridiculous.

What about North Korean IM?

[stendec]

License2KimJongill: hi what's up
License2KimJongill: hello?
License2KimJongill: helloooo...

Bush43: SORRY CAN'T TALK RIGHT NOW
Bush43: GOT COLON POWELL ON THE PHONE

License2KimJongill: i'm pretty sure it's spelled colin
Bush43: WELL I'M PRETTY SURE YOUR NAME IS SPELLED KIM JUNGLE

License2KimJongill: shut up

Bush43: YOU SHUT UP

License2KimJongill: no you shut up

Bush43: MAKE ME

License2KimJongill: make me make you

Bush43: WHAT?

License2KimJongill: i have to go too, I have colin powell on the phone too. You're talking to "colon" powell so I bet you have the wrong guy

Bush43: SHUT UP

License2KimJongill: you shut up

Shamelessly stolen from the Kim Jong Il livejournal

Re:What about North Korean IM?

[roman_mir]

License2KimJongill: i have to go too, I have colin powell on the phone too. You're talking to "colon" powell so I bet you have the wrong guy - technically, he just had the wrong end of the guy.

Re:What about North Korean IM?

[schon]

technically, he just had the wrong end of the guy.

After seeing his presentation to the UN about Iraq, I'm not entirely convinced you're right. :o)

Re:What about North Korean IM?

[Rone]

technically, he just had the wrong end of the guy

So Bush was callin' Colin's colon?

Re:What about North Korean IM?

[Chalybeous]

... either that or the goatse guy.

The North Korean News Agency

[s20451]

http://www.kcna.co.jp

Pretty funny. A lot of stories like, "Ugandan ambassador hails Korean workers". Even some news in Spanish (I wonder if that's for Cuban benefit.)

Re:The North Korean News Agency

[SignificantBit]

could be Cuba or could be that there is 332 million people talking spanish... 10 million more than english speakers.

Re:The North Korean News Agency

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, that's pretty good stuff. Is that for real? Or fake?

The surest sign of an oppressive regime is putting nothing but editorial in the news. *looks at his news paper* *watches Fox News* d'oh!

Re:The North Korean News Agency

[MSBob]

But how many people speak English as a second langueage versus Spanish?

Re:The North Korean News Agency

[MSBob]

It's real. It's been around for years. Endless source of entertainment. They had series like "Anecdotes about Kim Il Sung" and stories about flowers sprouting in Kim Jong Il's garden.

Of course, no news about the dire food situation in the country.

Re:The North Korean News Agency

[Wyatt Earp]

Things like this

"Since the government of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea made public a statement on the country's withdrawal from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Korean workers have stepped up production and construction, determined to win the final victory in confrontation with the U.S. imperialists. The miners of the Komdok Mine are countering the enemies' reckless economic blockade with increased production of non-ferrous metallic minerals."

Or

"The secretariat of the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of the Fatherland Monday issued information bulletin no. 835 denouncing the "declaration on the situation" released by pro-U.S. traitor Kim Yong Sam and other motley crew in South Korea on Jan. 17. The bulletin said."

Or

"The Pyongyang Textile Mill, the Sinuiju Basic Foodstuff Factory and other light industry factories have fullfilled their daily quotas at 120 percent by putting the production processes on a modern basis and keeping equipment in full-capacity operation."

Re:The North Korean News Agency

[SignificantBit]

Spanish Facts and Stats
i was just doing a remark about the fact that A LOT of people speak spanish and therefore shoudn't be such a surprise the site have news on spanish too.

And this means...

[KC7GR]

...that we're going to start seeing encrypted spam now?

(Sorry, couldn't resist). ;-)

Re:And this means...

[KrispyKringle]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that when you get mail from a `Korean' country code, the registry means South Korea. I, personally, can't remember ever seeing North Korean spam.

Re:And this means...

[pentalive]

Hmm, I was looking at the site for North Korea and the symbol near the email button is a meat cleaver

chop chop

Re:And this means...

[alekd]

That is not so strange as North Korea has no started using its domain yet.

Dear N. Korean Secure E-mail System,

[mikesab]

*Salivates*

Your's Truly,
Every Known Hacker in the Free World

Re:Dear american patriot...

[Belisarivs]

And don't waste our time with your anti-American sterotypes.

Not for the citizens

[jrsimmons]

I didn't read anything in the article that made me think this "service" was for the citizens of North Korea, as many seem to be inclined. If you are a communist state and want to provide a safehouse of sorts for those of a like mind, would a secure e-mail system not be beneficial for those people? I suspect that this will be more of a government tool than a service provided for the people of North Korea.

Re:Not for the citizens

[jrsimmons]

I think you miss the point. The article clearly states that it is believed that very few people in the country have internet access, or event computers for that matter. And you seem to attribute the inteligence of a goose to the North Korean population. Do you really believe that anyone in North Korea really will believe that a government service is not monitored by the government? I sincerly hope not. Though, if you do, then perhaps you'd be interested in some property I have for sale in Arizona. It has this great ocean view...

Hard to enforce..

[hookedup]

It remains illegal for any South Koreans to email their northern neighbours without government permission.

I wonder how strict they are about this? How could you possibly enforce a rule like this, considering the amount of wired households in S.K.

What if someone in N.K sends an email to an email on your mail server which doesn't exist, and your server happily sends out something along the lines of 'this address does not exist'. Are you liable then?

Re:Hard to enforce..

[tftp]

Well, the article says that they jailed six people recently for this offense. I would assume they don't watch everyone, but known activists can be easily monitored.

However this still does not tell me which of Koreas is more democratic. And this prohibition does not seem to be of any use whatsoever, unless South is paranoid about spies...

Re:Hard to enforce..

[RevMike]

this prohibition does not seem to be of any use whatsoever, unless South is paranoid about spies...

Indeed they are extremely concerned about spies and sabateurs (sp?). North Korea continues to be responsible for many provocative acts, including the murder of military personnel inside the the DMZ, the digging of invasion tunnels under the border, terrorist attacks in South Korea, etc.

The South has good reason to be paranoid.

Re:Hard to enforce..

[jedrek]

Well, North Korea is not democratic at ALL, so South Korea (where you have elections, protests, etc) is the more democratic.

As far as being paranoid, I think the South is quite paranoid and with good reason. North Korean spies reguarly travel into the south, through a large network of tunnels under the DMZ. NK agents have kidnapped Japanese and South Koreans dozens of times in the past 40 years. South Korea is often infiltrated by North Korean spies who get into the country via small submarines.

From what I understand, cold war Berlin was nothing compared to what's been going on in Korea since the 60s.

Re:Hard to enforce..

[perly-king-69]

North Korea is the totalitarian state, South is the democratic one where US troops are currently stationed? You remember the Korean war? M*A*S*H?

Re:Hard to enforce..

[The Snowman]

And this prohibition does not seem to be of any use whatsoever, unless South is paranoid about spies...

As other posters pointed out, yes, they are paranoid about spies. But there is another reason.

South Korea knows about all the bad stuff going on in North Korea. But they want to be reunified so badly that they (the government, at least) are willing to pretend the detention camps, starvation, drugs, etc. don't exist. South Korea is democratic, but its citizens are highly discouraged from talking about any of the bad things going on. Free speech? No. But what about the USA PATRIOT act and the DMCA? Democracy does not equal freedom as we know all too well.

Unfortunately, the South Koreans are just as delusional as Kim Jong Il if they believe that if they ignore the problem it will go away.

Anyway, the thing about not emailing North Koreans is not specific to email. South Koreans are, for the most part, forbidden from talking to North Koreans in most circumstances. Newspaper articles quoting Northern refugees are highly censored. Refugees from the North to the South are repatriated, and obviously put to work in their death camps that produce merchandise for Wal-Mart et al., if not put to death.

The promise of a free, democratic, reunified Korea is very faint. I doubt it will ever happen, even when Kim Jong Il loses the war of attrition.

Re:Hard to enforce..

[perly-king-69]

Lay off the caffeine pal! I was just stating fact for the guy who didn't know his Korea's.

North is a totalitarian regime. Not necessarily a bad thing, but in this case it is.

South is a democratic state. Given that the OP was probably an American (most /.ers are) then the reference to his soldiers and very popular TV programme were relevant pointers for him.

Most Americans aren't evil. Neither are most French, Iraqis, Chinese, Russians, Israelis or Palestinians, no matter what you might be told.

I'm not entirely sure the US gave a shit what happened to Britain until Pearl Harbour happened. Parts of the UK were invaded and occupied by the Nazis (the islands of Guernsey, Jersey etc.) They certainly didn't jump in to help Poland, France, Belgium when they were invaded. Several years afterwards maybe, but at the time?

Re: Echelon

[potifar]

Is there really anyone who thinks Echelon is ok??

Spam

[mirko]

So, Kim doesn't know he's not the only one to get these "enlarge yer manhood" spams and wants to keep these secret from his court ?

Re:Spam

[scavenger87]

Maybe he tries to hide from others about his peculiar pasttime hobby of mooning to the citizens of Free World.

of course

[theMerovingian]

Great Leader Kim Yong Il is computer-savvy. Check out the Frontpage-For-Dummies official site of the DPRK.

I would be embarrassed to put pictures of my CAT on a website that lame.

Re:of course

[theMerovingian]

FYI, there are TWO gateway pages - you have to click on the word "Welcome" between the two Great Leaders' Portraits to actually access the content.

Took me a few minutes to figure it out...

Re:of course

[kryptkpr]

And if you think that's funny.. check out their Flash Demo!

Re:of course

[oberondarksoul]

Taken from this page:

JOB OR OCCUPATION

Are you a journalist?
> I am NOT a journalist
> I am a journalist

Taken from questionaire upon entry into the USA:

Are you a member of, or have you ever been associated with, the Communist Party?

I see a pattern forming...

Re:of course

[James in Iowa]

If you look at the source it seems to have been made by an old version of Fireworks and Dreamweaver. Is there an embargo with North Korea on software?

Re:of course

[Echnin]

You got a few things wrong with his name. Kim Jong Il is the Dear Leader; Kim Il Sung is the Great Leader. So "Great Leader Kim Yong Il" Is just wrong. Sorry.

Re:of course

[zymurgy_cat]

Check out the sign up form after the flash movie. Ya gotta hand it to the Kim family. They may oppress their own people, but at least they support transgender (or rather "other" gender") people.

Re:of course

[utopyr]

And if you want some tunes to listen to while you look through that, you might try the selections at the PyongYang Metro site.
"We Shall Follow You Forever" is particularly stirring.

hahaha

[minus_273]

talk about liberal media! these are the top stories on the N Korean news site:

U.S. Urged to Accept Simultaneous Action and Package Solution
Abolition of SL in S. Korea Demanded
U.S. Imperialists' Aerial Espionage on DPRK
Japan Not Qualified to Participate in Six-way Talks
Meeting against Evil Laws Held in S. Korea
Yakbab, Korean Food

Re:hahaha

[Erik K. Veland]

Hmmm, gotta love this story:

DPRK, Dignified Powerful Nation

Pyongyang, November 30 (KCNA) -- The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is an invincible powerful nation with a great national power enough to firmly defend its just idea, system and cause, stresses Rodong Sinmun today in a signed article. The DPRK is an indestructible political power in which the whole party, the entire army and all the people get united in one mind and an ever-victorious military power, the article says, and goes on:
The socio-political foundation of the DPRK government which has been consolidated on the basis of the worker-peasant alliance led by the working class and in reliance on the united front of the popular masses has been immensely strengthened as the singleheartedly united force of the whole party, the entire army and all the people.

As powerfully demonstrated to the world once again by the election of deputies to the 11th term Supreme People's Assembly and the military parade and mass demonstration for celebrating the 55th anniversary of the DPRK, the DPRK is the great political power where the whole party, the entire army and all the people are singledheartedly united with the headquarters of the revolution as its hard core. The singlehearted unity of the party, the army and the people is a true and solid unity and cohesion which can neither be destroyed by nuclear weapons nor be toppled down by any crafty psychological warfare as it is an ideological, willful and moral unity based on the revolutionary faith and comradeship.

The DPRK has a powerful might enough to decisively check and frustrate the imperialists' vicious moves of aggression and war. We are firmly armed with the war method of Juche in the spirit of devotedly defending the leader, the spirit of laying down our life as a human bullet and bomb and the spirit of self-blasting explosion and has ever-victorious revolutionary strong army of Mt. Paektu equipped with modern offensive and defensive means and the powerful independent defense industry.

The imperialist bellicose forces should clearly know that any "preemptive nuclear attack" , "aerial and sea strike" and "precision strike" are impotent before the military power of the DPRK and there is no place on the planet to escape the powerful retaliatory strike of its revolutionary armed forces.

Our army and people value the peace of the country and do not want a war but will not beg for peace while having their sovereignty and dignity encroached upon. If the U.S. imperialists and their stooges ignite a new war, our army and people will deal an annihilating blow at the aggressors with the singlehearted unity and great military power consolidate

Hushmail

[Unreal7000]

Don't they already have secure email? www.hushmail.com

You know why its site is run from Japan right?

[sielwolf]

Because they can't risk having such a honeypot inside the DMZ (heh, check out how the computer argot just got completely flipped back upon itself). You don't want those loyal Party North Koreans (who would run such a service) allowing even the chance of Southern/US propaganda entering the North.

Better to isolate it outside and communicate with it securely. Would any self-respecting BOFH run his tyrannical regime er network any other way (bad haircut optioal)?

Also note that a segement of Korean-Japanese (who are descendent from the bad ol' days when the Penninsula was a colony) still see the North Korean regime as the One True way (so getting help to run Il-Jong's isn't too hard). Interesting article on the subject can be found in this JE. It's about an American's vacation into the North. Fascinating.

Ob. Neil Young quote

[Lane.exe]

"Keep on hackin' in the free world!" [wicked guitar riff]

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Definition of secure email...

[192939495969798999]

'the data in the email will be encrypted, so only someone that can hack our encryption method can read the text of your email.'
So, I could still harvest your address, right? It'd be pretty hard to encrypt email addresses while the messages are being delivered:
POST to 239frj349fu34nf3498f34nf9u834nf9834f....
nah, I don't think that will work.

Re:Dear american patriot...

[Yo_mama]

I tell you, those North Coreans are something, but they've got nothing on irack!

This emails not fortunate

[RealProgrammer]

We are regretting that the Slash Dot web hosting has made these informations public available.

These informations should be kept private just for North Korean free viewing.

We have own all your bases.

What is legal in South Korea, and what isn't

[rduke15]

An interesting note at the bottom of the article says that "It remains illegal for any South Koreans to email their northern neighbors without government permission.".

That sounds actually pretty good for the North Koreans, when you consider the quantity of spam coming out of South Korea.

Too bad it isn't illegal to spam my country. Or has the spam I get been granted a "government permission"?

Here is how it works

[Snaller]

You print it out, put it in an envelope and deliver it in person (with an armed guard) - clever! Ping times are bad though.

From the man who brought you casablanca...

[ponds]

Note that this is from the country run by the same guy that claims that hollywood ripped off all his movie ideas.

Duuuuhhhhhh.

[GeneralEmergency]

No email -is- secure email.

Taa...dahh!

Fighting oppression

[mcSey921]

From the article: "It remains illegal for any South Koreans to email their northern neighbors without government permission. "

So South Korea is fighting the oppression and censorship of the North with oppression and censorship?

Re:Fighting oppression

[dochood]

It might be a little hard for Americans to understand this concept, since the Canadians don't have a 1 million man army sitting on the border, and SCUDs with chemical weapons on them, waiting for a chance to invade.

The Canadians don't send spies down to pick off our citizens and stir up our students into riots, etc.

The Canadians have not sent assassins to kill our president, submarines to drop off commandos to do who-knows-what, thugs to ax-murder people chopping down a tree, and they haven't bombed any of our airliners using 20 year old girls and 70 year old men.

Democracy, although we'd like to think so, doesn't export as well as Hollywood movies or blue jeans. Democracy is a pretty foreign concept to most parts of the world, and it takes time to build a solid, true democracy in any place that doesn't have the same foundation and culture that we have.

dochood

Re:Fighting oppression

[radish]

democracy is a pretty foreign concept to most parts of the world

Errr... "most"? Some, yes, but not most.

Re:Fighting oppression

[gobbo]

Canadians don't have a 1 million man army sitting on the border, and SCUDs with chemical weapons on them, waiting for a chance to invade.

No, but you were very clever to stop all beef imports from Alberta (that's a province). What you've overlooked will be your undoing however. You think that's ordinary beer we're exporting?! How about your comedians--how many of them are actually cleverly subversive Canucks? How about William Shatner? Peter Jennings? Perry f***ing Como? You think it's just coincidence that no one south of Minnesota actually knows anything about Canada?

Democracy is a pretty foreign concept to most parts of the world

Including Florida. Or haven't you noticed all those salty-haired "snow birds" we Canadians are sending down there? You think they're just retirees, right? Do you really think Jeb Bush could have pulled that caper off without the covert ops of the shuffleboard-and-horseshoes thugs? That's right, GW is a pawn of the Canadian Senate (ha! never heard of them, have you?). Our plan for world dominance proceeds apace.

Re:Fighting oppression

[chrootstrap]

It is part of the U.S. effort to prevent reunification of South and North Korea. If it was not for pressure from the U.S., Korea would have been reunified more than 50 years ago. Alas, they are the communist bogeyman and the enemies of fascists. What politics did our allies who took Berlin have? Not those of the capitalist who continue to use military might to oppress the world.

Re:Fighting oppression

[jpmorgan]

Two words: Celine Dion. Muahahaha.

Re:Fighting oppression

[gilgongo]

If you're implying that America somehow exports democracy and social justice to the rest of world, would you care to explain how and to whom?

What about Cuba, or Nicaragua, for instance? What about Honduras? How about Haiti and Guatemala?

All those countries have experienced what you describe, and worse, against them and their national sovereignty. So if North Korea's doing it - they probably just see themselves as going with the flow!

I case you doubt what I say, lets take this little story about Nicaragua as an example:

20 years ago, Nicaragua was on the receiving end of covert operations, assassinations, funding of guerrilla groups and illegal importation of weapons, etc. all perpetrated by the United States. It was on the receiving end of what most people would call terrorism.

Nicaragua responded not by bombing Washington, but by taking it to the World Court, presenting a case for which they had no problem putting together evidence for.

The World Court accepted their case and ruled in their favour. It condemned what it called the 'unlawful use of force' (which basically means international terrorism) by the United States, and ordered the United States to terminate their aggression and to pay massive reparations.

The United States dismissed the court judgment and announced that it would henceforth not accept the jurisdiction of the court. So Nicaragua then went to the UN Security Council which considered a resolution calling on all states to observe international law. No one was mentioned but everyone understood who was being talked about. But the United States vetoed the resolution.

The US therefore now stands as the only state on record which has both been condemned by the World Court for international terrorism and has vetoed a Security Council resolution calling on states to observe international law.

And you think North Korea is bad?

So - Nicaragua then went to the General Assembly where there is technically no veto but a negative US vote amounts to a veto. It passed a similar resolution with only the United States, Israel, and El Salvador opposed.

The following year they went to the General Assembly again, and this time the United States could only rally Israel to the cause, so two votes opposed to observing international law.

At that point, Nicaragua couldn't do anything lawful. It tried all the measures. They don't work in a world that is ruled by force.

So, um, how does the United States export democracy? How does it help to promote world peace exactly? And how much do you know about what the US government is doing overseas?

Clearly very little I think.

Re:Fighting oppression

[haxor.dk]

Hm. The same Nicaragua in where the Sardinistas ruled, slaughtering in tens of thousands? But now, they've been trown out - democratically - and suddently, mass graves start turning up.

But of course - because the USA intervened in the creation of a cute lil' socialist dictatorship, you have to bash them as un-democratic. Um, yeah.

Re:Fighting oppression

[gilgongo]

Do you ever wonder why there are people like Osama Bin Laden around? How do they justify what they do? Why do so many people in the world agree with their actions? I'll tell you why - because they see America doing it, so they fight back in the same way!

For god's sake this has got absolutely nothing to do with "socialism" (whatever you mean by that). If you think it's OK to flout international law, then what are you going to do if North Korea tries to assassinate George Bush because they don't think he's a good thing? Say that it's OK for America to do it but not them?

If that's your idea of moral superiority then we're all going to hell pretty fast.

Re:Fighting oppression

[haxor.dk]

I have a better suggestion.

People like Osama Bin Laden, and the like, do what they do, because they're fanatics. Fanatics produced by the terrorist factory known as "Islam", a "religion" where the name itself means "submission", and ideology, thats even more fascist than socialism and communism, an ideology, which even dictates how to wipe your own backside after a trip to the loo.

The claim that USA is ultimately responsible for the evils perpetrated agains it is old (red) hat - excuse the pun. It's in short, bullshit, sprouted by people who are pissed off that the free world won the cold war, and that their socialist dreams have been wrecked by their own mediocrity and arrogance.

International law ? Pah. There is no law without a power to enforce it. And since there's no international power, there is no international law. Claims to the contrary are delusions.

Besides, I dont believe in "hell". Not in the biblical sense, anyway.

Re:Great job RedHat!

[blane.bramble]

I've got paid for accounts both at work and at home, and it's been working fine. There may be a moral to this somewhere :-)

I wonder how many online users they have?

[novakane007]

"Little is known about how many people are online in North Korea"
"although it's likely very few North Koreans have Internet access at all."
"How many Internet users, or even how many computer users there are in North Korea, remains unknown"

Ok already! I get it. North Korea doesn't have a lot of online users. Is there a few other ways to say this, that you neglected to include?

Re:I wonder how many online users they have?

[AchmedHabib]

Not many(none?), the internet is non-existent to the average citizen.
At least that is what all news sources says. It sounds about right, it would be impossible for the current "leader" to maintain the powerful grip with no control over the flow of information.

Ah, good one

[Fighting.Cephalopod]

Absolutely. North Korea is definately a typical Left Wing Government, aren't they. Not like those radical right wingers in Britain, Sweden, Normay, Denamrk...

Re:Ah, good one

[sm0yby]

Unlike Sweden, which has a right-leg left-wing government.

Friendship...

[Anonymous Coward]

You should try the "Friendship" link (after clicking on "welcome" and getting to the main page). I thought it would be something about how the N Koreans are nice and doing friendly things, but nooo it has a picture of a large painting of a guy toting a military rifle and a link to the "national defence" song. Boy, that really generated a warm, fuzzy feeling--NOT!

Change of address notice

[mm0mm]

from NSA log...

North Korea has launched an email service that "guarantees the privacy of correspondence"

"Hi everyone. Since Hotmail is infamous for its backdoor and security holes, I'm switching my email. Please update your address book!

old address: KimJongIl@hotmail(REMOVE).com
new address: tyrant@hackers.no-korea(REMOVE).gov

Yours,
Kimmy"

Re:Great job RedHat!

[October_30th]

If by moral you mean bait-and-switch, you're absolutely right.

Great Solution for their Problems

[fuzzybunny]

So, while the population is starving due to castrophic economic policies, corrupt leadership and an idiotic foreign policy, they will no longer have to play games with the rest of the world, trading nuclear weapons for food.

I'd love to have a look at what pops up in their mail logs:

From: Dear Leader (Kim.Jong-Il@securemail.gov.kp)
To: president@whitehouse.gov (George)
CC: vice-president@whitehouse.gov (Dick)
Date: Dec. 2, 2003 18:50
Subject: North Korea Secure Email!!!11
------------
Dear Capitalist stooge George:

Invincible North Korean Peoples' Electronic Industry allow secure email discourse with running-dog American lackey. Welcome to glorious socialist revolution communication network! Great Korean Peoples' Hacker Team crush you Network like grape. All you base are belong to us! Hahahaha!

Love,

-Dear Leader

From: Dear Leader (Kim.Jong-Il@securemail.gov.kp)
To: orders@pizzahut.com
Date: Dec. 2, 2003 18:53
Subject: our order
------------
We take 50,000,000 super-size meat-lover special. Hold anchovy. Deliver President Palace, Pyongyang, Illustrious Democratic Peoples Republic North Korea.

Regard,

-Dear Leader

PS: Send Britney.

From: Dear Leader (Kim.Jong-Il@securemail.gov.kp)
To: tracy1827@hotmail.com (Peter Green Kabila
Date: Dec. 2, 2003 18:58
Subject: Re: YOUR STRICT CONFIDENCE REQUESTE
------------
Dear Mr. Kabila
Great Democratic People Republic of North Korea very interest in confidential transact. Please send more info.

Regard,

-Dear Leader

From: Dear Leader (Kim.Jong-Il@securemail.gov.kp)
To: president@whitehouse.gov
Date: Dec. 2, 2003 19:05
Subject: You Warheads

------------
Dear Ali,
Yuo nuklear weapon warhead ready. Freighter leave for Pakistan tomorrow. Please expediting payment expeditiously.

Cheers,

-Dear Leader
^D^C^C^C cancel
To: ali@alqaida.org
SHIT WRONG ADDRESSING

Re:Great Solution for their Problems

[DF5JT]

|From: Dear Leader (Kim.Jong-Il@securemail.gov.kp)
|To: orders@pizzahut.com
|Date: Dec. 2, 2003 18:53
|Subject: our order
------------
|We take 50,000,000 super-size meat-lover special.
|Hold anchovy. Deliver President Palace, Pyongyang,
|Illustrious Democratic Peoples Republic North Korea.

I don't think so. The Great leader prefers flying in his personal Pizza maker from Italy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/13 00 512.stm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/DK21Dg03.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/DK22Dg01.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/DK23Dg01.html

Should have just bought PGP-Universal

[Nonesuch]

All that work, and they could have just installed one of these on the DMZ and been done with it.

PGP.Com products are notoriously overpriced, but I bet North Korea could negotiate a nice discount on a 22,000,000 seat license with A.T.M. Networks Inc, the South Korean sales agent...

One hitch -- I tried completing the "free download" form with "N.Korea" as the country code, and got this popup:

'In accordance with current US Export restrictions, PGP 8.0 products may be downloaded by individuals throughout the world except those in the following countries: Cuba, Libya, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria. If you are in one of these countries, you may not download PGP software'."

Ah well, GPG doesn't have these petty restrictions!

Re:Should have just bought PGP-Universal

[geekee]

I doubt the N. Korean govt. wants an encryption system without a back door for them. I wouldn't be surprised if the modified gpg to provide their idea of secure e-mail

I hope South Korea is secure

[AndroidCat]

A year ago or more, I received a "Meet Russian Vommin" spam -- relayed by an open proxy on the firewall box of the South Korea naval headquarters. It took days to find a working Korean abuse mailbox to report this to.

Hopefully they've improved things since then.

Re:I hope South Korea is secure

[incal]

Secure?

No firewall can help you, if your capital city could be turned into pile of concrete and flesh. Thousands of NK heavy guns, inertial missiles, one of the most powerful armies in the world which, without faint will die for its leader - and no force which can defend your border.

even Israel is more secure than South Korea.

Re:I hope South Korea is secure

[AndroidCat]

When you have a loonie-tunes state to the north armed with all the equipment their people's food, education and medical money could buy, yeah, security is a relative thing.

But isn't it a start to lock down the security on the firewall gateway to your naval headquarters network?

Dear Troll...

[FatSean]

I shan't feed you today, but do try again. You need a more encompassing understanding of world politics to make a successful troll than your 10th grade education has provided you.

Charity...

[volpe]

Pretty soon he'll probably start shooting people with glasses ("intellectuals")


Charity begins at home.

North Korea Secure Email (Long Version News)

[Rotten]

Today the details of a new mail system claimed as "Absolutely Secure" have been posted on Leader Kim Jong II weblog available at the same server where the new mail system is being implemented.

An undisclosed person who likes himself to be called JK2 reported that "today i read my...err his weblog, and i got the details nobody knows about the new system"

Analysts said the new method is "Brillant" to bring email access to ppl while keeping comunications secure.

The system, concived by Kim Jong II himself consists in his own computer acting as a server, umplugged from any network or communications device. The gracefull leader himself will answer phonecalls from the population and transcribe the messages for them, absolutely free of charge.
The message is then keept in JK II "secure server" waiting for the recipient of the message to call using the toll free number and again, Kim Jong II himself will read the message for them.

The system is absolutely safe from net crackers and identity stealing since only Kim Jong II family have access to telephone services.

As stated by our misterious "JK2" source, many "free world" leaders have expressed interest in the new system including Chinese and Cuban leaders.

By yesterday, a very powerfull american software industry leader was analyzing in a emergency meeting held at company headquearters located in Redmond, the possibility to claim a patent on this great mail system while spokesman of a company who wanted to stay anonymous said that system is sure to use portions of intelectual property that belong to them, and they are analyzing charging Kim Jong II family a $600 license to use the system.

Re:North Korea Secure Email (Long Version News)

[jez9999]

For Christ's sakes, it's Kim Jong Il, not Kim Jong 2! Get your facts straight before you write it about 10 times.

I'm a pure home grown Korean...

[Anonymous Coward]

... and this scares me. Although I spent most of my teen age years + university life over in Canada, I've lived in Korea for good 14 years. As I grew up, there are bad and goodo things to be heard about people "up" there. One thing, I heard was the rumour that researches results achieved by North Korean top university happens to be better than the best university in South. I've also heard about the top University in North actually does have a better ranking (think North American university rankings published annually) than the top university in South. Now, these are my conspiracy theories about why the posted story is a possible scenario. 1) North Korea maybe forging research result. BUT they do not seem to joke about Nuclear bombs :-) I think they do have potential to acquire "bleeding-edge" cryptography, but probably will take a while to mature. 2) ONLY a few selected children of high ranking government officials get educated. And I assume these are very smart people since the government in places like North Korea wouldn't waste money. 3) There have been spies from North in South. (duh!) BUT some of these spies lived their lives as a professor/researcher at some university, etc etc. (this is TRUE, scary) What else could have they been doing? 4) North Korea will likely disobey any laws about cryptography exports and so on. The algorithm and all the math required are published. I assume using/implementing them just requires one smart brain. :-) I guess this point essentially applies to terrorists as well. 5) Don't forget all that money South gave to North a few years ago. Sure, it wouldn't have been enough money to last for long, but it was cerntainly known that a) North Korea didn't spend money for the public b) The amount of "financial aid" given to North was enough to make South Korean money reservoir dry. People actually blame the _previous_ president for this. 6) The site is hosted in _Japan_ *gasp*. Believe it or not, Japanese always seem to win computer hackerish war over Koreans. For my short period of exposure to Open Source/BSD community tells me that Japanese are faaar deeper into hacker community then Koreans. What doees this mean? I'm probably about to say, North Korean could've got some Japanese hackers working secretly? One interesting note though. I believe North Koreans have their webpages too (for probably 3 years?). It's been a while since I heard of debates in Korea about "Hmm. Should we allow our South dudes to see these North Korean webpages?" I think the resolution was to require government permission to access those pages. SOrry about long conspiracy theory. :-) And I'll post anonymously because I don't want to get arrested!

Ouch!

[theMerovingian]

You must be a member of the Korean Friendship Association

Tourism, DPRK-style

[spaceyhackerlady]

I was surprised to see tourism information on the DPRK web site. They've never encouraged it in the past, and what they're saying now sounds like Khrushchev-era Intourist. They've got a lot to learn, and could probably learn from the Cubans. Very much Marxists, but all those tourist dollars are just too tempting to ignore.

The application forms are a hoot, except for the bit about GPS not being allowed in the country. Oh, and U.S. folks not being allowed either.

...laura, proudly Canadian, but not planning a trip to Pyongyang any time soon

Re:Tourism, DPRK-style

[MSBob]

Heh. PyongYang is actually one of the prettiest cities in the world. Kim Jong Il siphons all the money and lets the rest of the country starve while PyongYang is perpetually propped up. Check this site out.

MSBob... proudly Polish AND Canadian :-)

Re:Tourism, DPRK-style

[theMerovingian]

Cubans have the tropical thing going for them, though.

My buddy (in the US military) was stationed up near the DMZ in S. Korea, and he says it is bitterly cold. Not that cold would bother a Canuck!

Re:Tourism, DPRK-style

[identity0]

Well, check out their Souvenier music catalog - they have a bunch of CDs and a DVD for "Mass Gymnastics, 60th Birthday Kim Jong Il" listed... interestingly, all the prices are in euros, which I think tells you what kind of people go there. Or maybe they're just too proud to ask for yen or dollars, who knows. I bet they don't ship to the U.S., either. Although I don't encourage (cr|h)acking, it'd be pretty funny to sniff the CC numbers of people who buy that shit...

What's next?

[scubacuda]

Nigeria offering "secure banking"?

Re:Forget their secure email, I'm still out to ...

[scubacuda]

Already been done:

#n apnic and arin blocks CIDR format
#http://www.okean.com/cidr.txt
#send comments, corrections, and additions to: contrib@okean.com
#last updated 11.28.03 2240 PST (GMT -8)

61.32.0.0/13, 61.40.0.0/14, 61.72.0.0/13, 61.80.0.0/13, 61.96.0.0/12, 61.248.0.0/13, 128.134.0.0/16, 129.254.0.0/16, 134.75.0.0/16, 137.68.0.0/16, 141.223.0.0/16, 143.248.0.0/16, 147.6.0.0/16, 147.43.0.0/16, 147.46.0.0/15, 150.150.0.0/16,
150.183.0.0/16, 150.197.0.0/16, 152.99.0.0/16, 152.149.0.0/16, 154.10.0.0/16, 155.230.0.0/16, 156.147.0.0/16, 57.197.0.0/16, 158.44.0.0/16, 161.122.0.0/16, 163.152.0.0/16, 163.180.0.0/16, 163.239.0.0/16, 164.124.0.0/15, 165.132.0.0/15, 165.141.0.0/16, 165.186.0.0/16, 165.194.0.0/16, 165.213.0.0/16, 165.229.0.0/16, 165.243.0.0/16,
165.244.0.0/16, 165.246.0.0/16, 166.79.0.0/16, 166.103.0.0/16, 166.104.0.0/16, 166.125.0.0/16, 168.78.0.0/16,
168.115.0.0/16, 168.126.0.0/16, 168.131.0.0/16, 168.154.0.0/16, 168.188.0.0/16, 168.219.0.0/16, 168.248.0.0/15,
169.140.0.0/16, 192.5.90.0/24, 192.100.2.0/24, 192.104.15.0/24, 192.132.15.0/24, 192.132.247.0/24, 192.132.248.0/22,
192.195.39.0/24, 192.195.40.0/24, 192.203.138.0/23, 192.203.140.0/22, 192.203.144.0/23, 192.203.146.0/24, 192.245.249.0/24, 192.245.250.0/23, 192.249.16.0/20, 198.178.187.0/24, 202.6.95.0/24, 202.14.103.0/24, 202.14.165.0/24,
202.20.82.0/23, 202.20.84.0/23, 202.20.86.0/24, 202.20.99.0/24, 202.20.119.0/24, 202.20.128.0/17, 202.21.0.0/21,
202.30.0.0/15, 202.189.128.0/18, 203.224.0.0/11, 210.80.96.0/19, 210.90.0.0/15, 210.92.0.0/14, 210.96.0.0/11, 210.178.0.0/15, 210.180.0.0/14, 210.204.0.0/14, 210.216.0.0/13, 211.32.0.0/11, 211.104.0.0/13, 211.112.0.0/13,
211.168.0.0/13, 211.176.0.0/12, 211.192.0.0/10, 218.36.0.0/14, 218.48.0.0/13, 218.144.0.0/12, 218.232.0.0/13, 219.240.0.0/15, 219.248.0.0/13, 220.64.0.0/13, 220.72.0.0/13, 220.80.0.0/13, 220.88.0.0/14, 220.92.0.0/14, 220.116.0.0/14 220.120.0.0/13, 221.138.0.0/15, 221.140.0.0/14, 221.144.0.0/12, 221.160.0.0/13, 221.168.0.0/16, 221.168.0.0/16, 222.96.0.0/12, 222.112.0.0/13, 222.120.0.0/15, 222.122.0.0/16

What Canadians don't do to Americans.

[Baron_Yam]

Perhaps we DO send spies and sabateurs... and we've just been so good at it you haven't noticed yet! Hmm... on second thought, maybe we've been so bad at it you haven't noticed yet.

Reminds me of an episode of "Cheers"

[LiberalApplication]

...where Coach caves in to the efforts of a salesman and buys a love-tester (or pinball machine or some other gizmo) for the pub because it was "guaranteed to increase sales". Sam, upon learning of this, asks, "guaranteed or what?"...

...which is what I wonder about this email service that is "guaranteed to be secure". So if my email gets snooped out, can I drop into North Korea to file a complaint? Do they have a toll-free number I can call? Will I get my money back? Will I survive the experience of attempting to file a complaint? Or will they just mail me a conciliatory blob of yakbab?

True...

[FatSean]

...but your country is still out bitch. Would you like creamy or chunky?

Very odd quote

[divec]

From a Word document on the website (see here):

The Korean Friendship Association (KFA) organizes a trip to the DPR of Korea (North Korea) and solidarity event for the reunification of the peninsula in July 2004. [...] The KFA pretends in this way to approach the reality of North Korea to the foreign friends and combine a passion for culture and tourism with a solidarity compromise.

Re:Very odd quote

[darien]

Probably an archaism - to "pretend" means literally to claim, and can sort of mean to hope for, as in "pretender to the throne."

Re:Very odd quote

[hetairoi]

The KFA even made a trip to Arkansas. Apparently, it was a very efficient communist hoedown.

Re: Echelon

[darien]

I suspect there is.

What I find interesting..

[Inoshiro]

Is that the US has done a lot of that, except to Cuba.

They've sent spies to kill Castro. They've let out animal viruses that made it so that herds of cattle had to be destroyed. They overfly the nation regularly with planes. They've indirectly and directly invaded (Bay of Pigs, etc).

Castro was hailed as a hero in the US for working to overthrow Batista, who was corrupt. Once they got him out of power, Castra chose communism. He removed the US control that was there, trying to make Cuba independant and strong.

This, naturally, did not sit well with the US.

Today they still harras Cuba constantly. It's silly.

Re:What I find interesting..

[Anonymous Coward]

Today they still harras Cuba constantly. It's silly.

Because Cuban-Americans want us to harass them.

Kim Jong Il's got mad skillz

[hetairoi]

Maybe not HTML skill, but he'll lay the smack down in ping pong.

I want a table tennis badge from the souvenirs section.

Re:Great job RedHat!

[Zeriel]

Bits are free. Bandwidth is not. RedHat is not now nor have they ever been obligated to provide you with, really, anything.

This is why I bothered to learn the stuff in Linux from Scratch. Sure, it's not plug-and-play, but I'm not paying anyone for support or packaging so I can't really expect anyone to do it but myself in the long run.

If you want Red Hat to give you guaranteed service, pay for it. Or are you the type that complains when any free offer is rescinded due to massive take-up and skyrocketing costs?

Re:Great job RedHat!

[October_30th]

offer is rescinded due to massive take-up and skyrocketing costs?

I don't think this is due to "massive take-up" and subsequent skyrocketing costs. It's because RedHat decided, which is their right, that there is more money to be made with the server/high-end clients and desktop services should be dropped.

It's OK. I just hope that I can get my information out of RedHat's database so that I won't get spammed to death by them or anyone else to whom RedHat sells the list when they eventually go bankcrupt.

So where do I go from here. Well, from now on I'll just tell all my friends, clients and any stranger to avoid RedHat at all costs. No big deal. I was betrayed by them. I'll be glad to do all the possible damage I can.

So, no hard feelings. Just business.

Open source

[SB9876]

Wow, I'm amazed, /. and no one's mentioned the link at the bottom of the article about S. Korea going open source?

As for N. Korea, I'll sit this one out as my Mom grew up in Pusan and can still remember the war. I'll just leave it at - Plato's republic is *not* a good basis for a real-world government.

Discuss breaking NK's information blockade with us

[Christ0ph]

We have an ongoing discussion at freenorthkorea.net on breaking North Korea's information blockade. Come join us.

North Korea has the worst human rights situation on Earth. Its as if Orwells 1984 has come to life.. its comparable to the 1930s in Russia under Stalin. NK desperately needs to be opened to the outside world, but Kim Jong Il, the narcissistic despot who rules NK, will never allow that because it would expose his web of lies. The result is that millions of people have starved to death and millions more have died in concentration camps.

Check out some of the resources linked from freenorthkorea.net's home page. North Korea is by far the strangest place on Earth

Re:Dear american patriot...

[tsmccaff]

Being an educated and wordly American who gets "educated" by rude non-Americans whenever I travel outside the US gets tiresome quickly.

KCNA not hosted in Japan

[grainofsand]

I believe that only the English-language version of North Korea's news agency is hosted in Japan. The original Korean-language content definitely originates from and is hosted in North Korea.

Re:KCNA not hosted in Japan

[DF5JT]

" I believe that only the English-language version of North Korea's news agency is hosted in Japan. The original Korean-language content definitely originates from and is hosted in North Korea."

Sure you can back this up by traceroute, can't you?

am I the only one who saw that? Take a look at thi

[abhisarda]

link!

On the registration page,
korea-dpr

There are three choices for gender-
male
female
other
Gotta take a look at their biology texts..
Kim Jong belongs to the third category, without a doubt.
Also, take a look at the
SECTION 4. REQUIRED TRAVEL INFORMATION
They ask for the passport no, issue date, expiry, nationality.. what the fsck are they thinking?

Those north korean officials will just skim this information off to use for fraud.

Crap source

[Any Web Loco]

Dude, this is based on a report by the Herald Sun for chrissakes! The Herald Sun is a zero-cred newspaper - it's the kinda paper tat has "B-52 Bomber found on Moon" as a headline (actually it didn't, but it's STILL that kind of paper).

Bandwith eh?

[focitrixilous P]

It did say that it had "a large transmission ban", which appears to mean high-speed bandwidth.
nope. It should be taken at face value. Many things cannot be transmitted. This post, for example, is banned from being e-mailed to NK.

Re:But...

[Guppy06]

Um... the first step in hiding WMD is not to admit you have them. Kim Jong Il never was one to read the instruction manual, I suppose.

Moderation crack

[Enoch Root]

Thank you moderators for showing how little you know of the world outside your basement bedroom. If you really think a North Korean could get on the Internet and write the above post, I have a bridge for sale.

Re: Echelon

[John Courtland]

Don't forget all the companies that used (still use?) it for industrial espionage.

Typo correction

[Alsee]

I said: So first you get hit with a massive paycut THEN your taxes are hit with 27% bump.

The correct figure is 30.7%. Sorry for any confusion.

-

Re:Great job RedHat!

[Zeriel]

*shrugs* I think the real problem with the open source movement is that people want their free to be as in beer. If you weren't paying for a RHN subscription you really have no right to bitch about up2date service, especially as you could just download the patches from their ftp site manually if it was that big a deal.

Actaully, if you weren't paying for up2date and using it regularly or on more than one machine, congratulations! You helped sink consumer Red Hat.

Story about north Korea

[rofthorax]

A friend of mine here at the local labs said
once when they were send an oil tanker to North Korea, they had said they were going to use the Oil to help the people but instead had resold it to Russia or some such place to get money to fund their army.. Anyhow, my friend said the whole time on the bus to the location where they were to deliver this tanker, the translator that had come with him said the whole time to him "You know, we hate you."

Can you imagine a communist state where the people are brainwashed to imagine everyone the world is their enemy?

Anyhow he said the country was in shambles, poor people living in run down houses, the places where they were keeping their oil, the tanks were rusting.. Obviously Kim Jong Li is not very capable or responsible. Who would trust to use a so called secure email connection with such an untrustworthy boss?

Oh and another thing..

[rofthorax]

Oh and another thing, one things I've noticed about communistic, post-communistic countries is they try as hard as possible to look like capitalistic countries like America, I guess in hopes that their countries won't end up like russia, that the people in their country should see the need to revolt or have a contrary opinion.. I think in the case of Kim Jong Li, he's been know to have a huge ego but with a self-deprecating opinion of his looks, and I suspect this Internet advocacy serves a dual purpose, to spy on his own people and in part as ego boosting publicity for the country.

Don't believe it for a minute, Cuba has the same heavily monitored and heavily protected fire-walled dialup line to the outside, and it doesn't reach very far intot eh country.. It makes me wonder if anyone has tried to smuggling into Cuba or North Korea devices that allow rebel factions to exist without being monitored by the government.. Has anyone done reasearch onto creating devices that produce signals that can hide in a cosmic noise floor?

Okay India and Iran, on the count of three..

[rofthorax]

I leave that one up to your imagination..

Re:A response to your questions...

[perly-king-69]

The thing that got me into this was the comparison with the IRA and how some Americans supported them, and then you had the gall to compare that to 9-11. As I said before we didn't kill or move 25% of his people. Of course no attacks are "justified".

I didn't make that comparison. I made the comment that the US government knowingly allowed an organisation to operate which funded the murdering of British subjects, ie terrorism. This stopped in the wake of 9/11 which to me smacks of hypocrisy. It seems that the funding of terrorism was fine all the time the targets were outside US soil, even your allies.

The sig was supposed to indicate that the choice of a leader reflects on the people who chose him/her. I'll change it seeing as I've offended you with it though (after this post)

Re:Discuss breaking NK's information blockade with

[Christ0ph]

Hmmm... Well, I certainly will give that some thought. Thank you.. Lets see what the site visitors have to say...

I'll ask them.. It's just one of the default Movable Type templates..not much more..