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After The GNOME Bounties, It's Mozilla's Turn
MikeCapone writes "Slashdot had an article about the GNOME bounties a few days ago, but now, thanks to the Shuttleworth Foundation (created by Mark Shuttleworth, the guy who went into the ISS as a Soyuz cosmonaut a couple of years ago), the Mozilla project also has some monetary incentives. The budget for 2004 is USD$100,000."
For various annoying reasons I have to use hotmail for a great deal of my email. Recently, MS changed the hotmail interface so links to messages are done in javascript instead of regular HTML. This means that I can't control+click all my messages and have them open into tabs. Its been barely over 24hrs since they have done this and I'm already contemplating setting up a html-email/hotpop server localy just to get around this...
Anyway, to the point. Submit a (working) patch to mozilla that gets included and get a $50 amazon.com or thinkgeek gift certificate, or a paypal payment (minus fees).
The patch should:
-detect when javascript would open a new window
-If the link was to be opened into a new tab (via control-click, 3rd mouse button, or whatever option is set), open the link into a new tab instead of a new window
-have an option to open all new windows into a new tab
-This bounty expires at midnight GMT on 12/31/04. By which time I'll either have been annoyed to the point of death, or have been forced to setup an alternate solution.
Defuddle my email address and send me an email when its done. Also, if you know a better place to put this bounty, please reply. Mozilla.com should have a section for this...
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
...to the person who can make the incredibly bloated and sluggish 1.5 feel like the usable 1.3.1. 10x that if it can be as zippy as IE. Seriously. I love Mozilla but it's slow as hell, at least on Windows.
It's about time. Not that small contributions haven't helped, but ever since the support was pulled for Netscape, things have rather been free floating (barring the Firebird project). It's terrific to see that there is a solid future for the development of one of the best IE alternatives out there.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
Why not just hire contractors to do this if you have the cash? That way you have a better timeframe and knowledge of how the job is done, instead of waiting on a contest with no idea what will be done and what won't be done?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Minus $699 for the license from SCO. Makes $99301 total.
for a good tool for combining people who want to same software and are willing to pay. Like sourceforge and paypal rolled into one.
My dream software - a decent open source fantasy sports dollar based draft solution. And I know I'm no the only one.
Hmmm. Paying people to develop code? What a clever idea! I'd beter patent this quick!
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
RTFA. He is also giving rewards to other projects.
I think there should a bounty on a patch that creates a new incompatible and competing theme system for Mozilla based on ideological differences.
...if you read that as "Gnome BOOTY hunt", and wondered what bozo posted this on
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Seeing this openly advertised gives me a great deal of hope for future open development efforts. Having some monetary incentive is a pretty big barrier to lots of programmers who are otherwise interested -- it's just the standard geek reward of "people will praise me for my effort" isn't enough for them.
In this particular case, the bounties appear to be for very specific features to existing products. Looks like it's working! But it seems the bounties are oriented solely toward individual programmers. I have to wonder how such a bounty would apply to larger-scale projects? I mean, for instance, what would the ramifications be of creating a bounty for a less-specific domain, or one in which there are numerous contributors so that one person couldn't solely claim responsiblity for the feature or program?
I suppose someone would have to decide how much effort each person put into the feature or program, and pro-rate the bounty to each person based on that decision. Could be a recipe for some hard feelings.
I think bounties are a great idea, but the way those bounties are implemented will make a pretty sizeable difference in developer response.
I like this approach, though. It's an individual, saying "I have a fund this large, and am willing to pay this much for these things to get done". Much better than some big corporate bid match-up service that falls flat on its face like some notables over the last few years...
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
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Someone ought to start some kind of system where people can sponsor certain open-source projects, and have a lot of people contributing to them. $10 here and $10 there adds up to quite a bit of cash for the programmers who work hard at creating something great and then giving it to everyone for the betterment of all. This would also help the programmers gain feedback into what people really want to see in their programs.
That would be excellent - although I'm stuck with Outlook at work.
I try to sort my mail into folders based on the projects I'm working on. Something that could examine the contents of the email and suggest folders that it should go into would be very useful.
In fact, based on the sucess rate of SpamAssassin, I'd be prepared to allow it to classify them automatically.
Hmmm ... I wonder if you could do something in VB that would do the filtering for you by accessing the Outlook object?
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
You want good quality software? You gotta pay for it. Even if you only plan to give it away for nothing, the coding part really requires that you pay.
Because we programmers have to live, you know.
Firebird is pretty good though.. it has a few oddities, but generally is pleasing to use.
My Ass hurts.
I'm glad this is happenning. I was just thinking to myself (I win all my arguments that way) the other day about the perception that FOSS users won't pay for software and just want free as in beer. Of course to an extent that is true, but then it dawned on me that it's actually businesses that just want free beer.
:-(
The idea is constantly bandied about that FOSS programmers are just part time hackers with nothing better to do, but when you look at the quality of some FOSS projects that can't be true. It takes time and money. So why aren't companies like Sun and IBM making with the money to pay KDE to create a Micro-Soft like "Control Panel" for the desktop? Not that we may need one, it's only an example. Companies like IBM love to use Linux to nettle Micro-Soft and push their own agenda, but if they were serious about Linux on the desktop they'd put a bounty out for cohesive and intuitive applications that will help build a core of non technical users.
The German government took this route with Kroupware, and I just hope that Novell will do something like it with SuSE, but I still believe a serious sea change of perception and thought needs to take place in the corporate world. FOSS is a resource not only to push your other agendas, but can be harnessed relatively cheaply to get what you want. For those of us that can't code (yet) it doesn't matter if the source code is available, but it might be feasible to pay a developer to create a feature I want, maybe through a clearinghouse type website (any VCs in the house?). I know I'd pay if I had money for MozMail to be able to schedule the times it sent mail a la Outlook, and I even had someone ready to switch from Outlook until they discovered MozMail couldn't do that
Enuff rambling, maybe this is just a start of the community bootstrapping itself and the corporate world will notice and loosen the purse strings...
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
In mozilla if you type a nonexistent address, you get an annoying message box. Is there some way to disable this ? I mean can mozilla behave like internet explorer and instead display "not found page".
True. It needs to be something a bit more generalized. It should handle not only Python, but also Lisp (Guile, anyway) and Ruby, and possibly even "JavaScript".
For that matter, it should handle anything that gcc compiles, too (though if it could handle Python or Ruby that last would be a cinch).
OTOH, this sure gets rid of any security...so this had better be custom enabled, and disabled by default. And probably run in a sandbox. (With access to a specified local directory. And automatically filter links out of accessibility or visibility.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Mark's Shuttleworth's an interesting guy. He knew one of the developers of the POV-Ray raytracer, and before he went into orbit he comissioned an image to be rendered on his laptop while in orbit. It was done by Gilles Tran and Jaime Piqueres, two well respected POV-Ray artists. Gilles has the story on his website.
Huh, what (wakes up) ... is Microsoft taking out contracts on open-source developers now?
"And this is my boy, Sherman. Speak, Sherman." "Hello." "Good boy."
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The Mozilla team once included (in versions <= 1.4) a build-optional SVG module; you could then use SVG as part of a multi-Doctype document (alongwith XHTML, MathML...).
The interesting side of it is that you can script SVG; like you would do with DHTML on a regular XHTML document. Text and data and instructions embedded in a SVG document are *still* accessible; oppose Flash.
Now that branch is put aside - there is no easy way to include SVG in a stable release: you must use trunk and/or do multiple source patches.
As a free replacement for proprietary technologies, it would really be nice to see some effort put into reviving SVG in Mozilla.
If the system were set up so that you could contribute to a 'bounty', then the system would scale even better.
Some central board on a project, like the gnome project, would administer the bounties. If its bothering you, add to the bounty. Eventually its enough money to be a proper incentive.
Like the gnome bounties, the board itself would have to choose the best solution, so as a bounty contributor (the person sending the money) you'd give up that control. A minor giveaway, and something you probably don't have time to do anyway.
Sounds good to me.
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
I've only developed one open source application, but I've contributed about 10x that much code to existing projects.
Without small time contributers, it's really not an open source project.
From the website The largest known prime number, discovered by the Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search (GIMPS), has 909,526 digits. The Mersenne search just officially announced yesterday (it had come out to the group last month was was still being confimed by several re-checks) that Michael Shafer discovered the 40th known Mersenne prime, 2^20996011-1. Congratulations Michael. This prime is over 6.3 million digits, beating the previous world record prime by over 2 million digits. So a 6.3 million digit prime is known, replacing a 2 million digit one. The ten million one is not that far off.
You can get the software to try to find the next Mersenne prime here
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
...that at midnight GMT 12/31/04 you'll be too drunk to worry about it...
I find myself wondering, in response to this suggestion, if an ebay-like approach would work really well. Make it easy to register for the service, keep your costs low to none (a few bucks, like ebay, rather than a few hundred, like some former notables), skim just a touch off the amount transacted, and you're done.
The principal pitfalls of such a system would seem to be:
1. Delayed delivery. Commitment to engineer something, and then delivering on that commitment, can take days, weeks, or months.
2. Confirmation of work completed -- how do you track that in the system?
3. Achieving sufficient volume to pay for operations.
I dunno, those don't seem insurmountable. To someone who has a hosting account somewhere, some spare time, and one of several ebay-like open source projects currently going, it seems like it would be easy to open up for business...
Hmm, I wonder what a fun domain would be that I could set something like this up on my server...
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
What if something like Bugzilla had a system whereby people could make micropayments towards bounties for fixing bugs and implementing features? The final effect would be the same as someone setting up a single large bounty, but the tasks would be prioritized somewhat more democratically.
:)
Setting this up would not be easy: you'd have to have a financial partner (Amazon comes to mind in that they had a system where money was held in escrow or something until the buyer was satisfied), and the system would have to have decent financial auditing to prevent abuse, but it could be done.
Microbounties would also bring back a measure of consumer power to the world of open source development. Projects/tasks that attract donators will also attract developers, and the disconnect we always talk about between what users want and what developers want to work on would become smaller.
And while I'm talking big, let me point out that this model could be adapted to the provision of other information goods. I can imagine a small band setting up a bounty for their next album, with funds not released until the album is complete (in this case, it would be the suppliers setting up the bounties, not the demanders. I guess you'd call them 'ransoms' not 'bounties').
Sombody ought to set up a bounty for the implementation of this idea
Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
IE alternative, eh? Is that the new term for "web browser"?
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
I like the idea of putting down 'Mozilla Bounty Hunter' on my resume or business card. Coder for hire. I'm sure that's going to grab some attention.
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
- Python
- Perl
- Ruby
- Tcl
- Lisp
- Scheme
- Haskell
- OCAML
- Erlang
- Mozart/Oz
- Mercury
- Smalltalk
- Prolog
- SQL
- OQL
- XQuery
- JavaScript
- and of course BASH
Did I forget something?.. Oh, yes - and TeX/LaTeX too!Seriously, each time one of them is not supported in some software I need it next day after I learn that it's not there. It must be solved once and forever - all those languages must be supported. So each time the programmer can use the right tool for the right job.
Less is more !
I wouldn't exactly call 100 grand a bounty...if you live in NYC, its the minimum you'd need to pay rent & support a wife and two kids.
On another tack, I see this as a trend, perhaps an offshoot of angel-investors+freelancing, where rich individuals ( the angel-investors ) pony up cash to get stuff done by the rest of us(freelancers), mostly for themselves, but sometimes society benefits too.
eg. Superman Christopher Reeves is single-handedly funding ( http://www.christopherreeve.org/ ) spinal cord research in this country.
George Soros pours tons of cash into his pet projects in Eastern Europe.
The results can be decidedly mixed - Reeves decides not to pursue research in basic medicine, - he just wants people to work on problems pertaining to his specific spinal cord injury.
I hope mozilla doesn't end up having a button on its toolbar for each investor who coughed up $5K ( where I come from, if you pay 5K for a temple project, you get a stone in the temple with your name on it. )
From his homepage: "Likes: spring, cesaria evora, slashdot, chelsea[...]"
;)
Hey, Mark! That's karma whoring!
Anyhow, GREAT JOB!
Well it's this guy's bounty, not yours, is it? And he most clearly explains the benefit he sees:
"It should handle not only Python, but also (etc.)"And the word "should" should only be used to prescribe what oneself, not others, "should" be doing.
I like the popup ad blocking feature, why can't IE offer this is well? What's wrong with those idiots at Microsoft?
I would love for Mozilla to have a plugin that has the ability to highlight text on a webpage (just like highlighting something on paper) and, if you save the page that has highlights in it, Mozilla will also save highlighted text as highlighted. It would also be nice to be able to unhighlight something, as well.
You can re-order tabs and move them between windows via drag-and-drop with these extensions. That's exactly what I've been wanting. I actually still use multiple browser windows, and use tabs as "subcategories". For instance, I'll have one window for Slashdot, with tabs for stories, and open more tabs for comments I want to read (I browse threaded with comments at 3 and above displayed in full). Sometimes, I'd really like to rearrange the tabs to move the stories around, as it's most convenient to have the story I'm reading be the right-most tab.
I'm also intrigued by the ability to set certain states (such as a refresh interval), and the fact that this is saved with the bookmark to the page. Very nice.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
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However, if you set up the tab groups and set it so that it reopens the current group of tabs when the browser crashes, I've seen reports that that does slow things down considerably. So try unsetting that option.
If you use the tab extensions you might also want to check and see if you have the "auto-reload" enabled. In the options under tabs there is a "frequency of auto-reload". Make that 1 or you can end up with tabs reloading and reloading and reloading for pages set to expire immediately.
This is already possible in Mozilla/Firebird...there is a property browser.block.target_new_window or something...I love this feature!!
Let the users submit the bugs, if enough people vote on the bugs it gets listed as A bounty. If the users then contribute to the bounty the bug gets fixed.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
I would like the browser to perform a glitch-free redraw of the current page when a link is clicked on
and opens in another window or tab, so that the
link text will now display in the proper color indicating that the link has been visited.
I would quickly pay $100 for a solid cross platform roaming profile implimentation in the mainstream mozilla. I think plenty of people would jump at this as well o increase that amount quite easily.
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
Most of the bounty cash will probably end up going to SchoolTool development. SchoolTool is a Python-based school administration application, primarily for schools in the developing world. Steve Alexander, a leading Zope developer, is currently leading the work with his team in Lithuania. The server is based on Zope 3 code and the Twisted framework. It'll feature a REST web service interface. Hopefully, this will provide a relatively simple, robust and clean platform to allow schools to manage their data with a minimum of up-front expense and administrative burden.
Real-life bounties have this problem as well. The US offered bounties on Afghan "Al Quada members", and for this reason, many of the people caged up in Guantanamo are just farmers, taxi-drivers and 13-year-old kids who were turned in by some very nasty people who wanted bounty money. To solve this problem, they need a committe to determine when a bounty is properly paid. A similar system could also make calls about bounty paymets for software. Sure, it's a bit of extra work, but much easier than writing the code yourself.
Not to be flamebait. But why would be put a bounty on putting Python everywhere?
Because he's a Python user and fan, and it's his money.
I would personally advocate the attentions be placed towards better financial management software or to focus on Evolution to make it faster, lighter, and leaner.
Fine. Open your wallet and then we'll see what happens. Or start writing your own code...
Since 1994 I'm waiting for the "Save content of this form locally".
How many time did you spend 30 minutes filling HTML form and your only solution at the end to keep what you've written is to print the page !
Is it that complex ???
I submitted a feature request to Bugzilla to allow bounties within bug reports.
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
I think I remember reading recently that Belkin routers do this for you. :)
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Virtual folders rule. I wish more mail clients had those. It is so cool to sort all your mail as it comes in and have only 1 folder to open to read your unread messages.
Downside, spam filters suck/nonexistent.
1 word: Thunderbird
ymmv
A few in this thread have mentioned a few times that the total amount offered for bounties is barely a salary for a good developer. Two points to remember - chasing bounties isn't necessarily to be a lucrative bounty, it's more about providing some motivation to the guys who were going to do this anyway; secondly, don't assume that the best developers for the job are American - Mark comes from South Africa where US$100k would hire quite a few world-class developers (not that he is hiring teams).
I find yahoo to be much better than hotmail, you don't get nearly as much spam and you get more disk space for free.
I think a strict prerequsite for any code to be deemed a winning entry is that it has strict standards compliance. Everyone I speak to who doesn't like Linux says its because of the lack of standard UI issues. Sure, most these sort of issues are beyond the scope of the competition elements but it is still important that standards compliance (in every respect) be kept.
Mozilla is not "the" GNOME browser - it is a browser that has GTK2 hooks. Epiphany is integrated into GNOME, supports GNOME dialogs, complies with GNOME's HIG etc.
I do think Moz on Win32 is a tiny bit slower than IE, but the time saved by tabbed browsing alone makes it WELL worth my while. The automatic 'google search' is great too, and the sidebars let me monitor several projects without having to trod over to the actual websites.
Overall Moz/FireBird are great products.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
There's been a bounty for a port of Mozilla (and/or FireBird) to Amiga OS 4.x for several months now. Nice to see everyone else catching up. :)
Yes, "you" ;-)
surely you could buy a fast enough computer to make 1.5 feel uber fast, if not I'll sell you one that will for the small price of $100,000. :P
Security is inversely proportional to the commitment of one desiring to circumvent it.
1) Download and Install Tab Extension and restart Mozilla.
2) In TabBrowser Extension Options change two settings: a) in 'Advanced', tick 'New windows opened by JavaScript' and b) in 'Focus', tick Javascript in 'load new tab in background when it is opened by'
3) In Booksmarks > Manage Bookmarks: create a new Bookmark. In the Location type: javascript: function G(UL) { window.open(UL,'_blank',''); } stick it in your Bookmarks Toolbar for easy reuse.
4) open Hotmail and go to your Inbox
5) click that Bookmark you just created (this will replace hotmail's function with your own)
6) click on messages - they should now open in the background in a new tab.
enjoy
As a better suggestion, I wrote a webmail client for ourbrisbane.com which is free sign-up to (5MB storage), W3C compliant (IE and Mozilla), has a good spam filter, and has a preview pane, right-click contextual menus, drag-drop, background-mail checking, folder export (as zip), select and ctrl-click, short-cut keys, searchable list filtering, etc, etc.
Ok, this doesn't solve the SMTP problem, but aren't *all* of the other problems you mentioned solved by IMAP?
Everything's on the server. You only need to download headers. Message state (read, responded to, etc) is saved on the server. You get folders galore. You can check quotas and share folders between users, and it's *not* any more difficult to run than a POP server.
I truely don't understand why that god-awful ghetto-ness that is POP even exists anymore....it makes sense if you're paying for your internet connection by the minute and want to read everything offline, but for any other situation it just blows.
Hell, aside from my current job (where the guy who does IT just doesn't want to deal with it) I haven't touched a POP server in *years*.