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Sharing IT Problems with Executives?
dicey asks: "Later this week all of the IT department at my company (50-80 people) is having a dinner with the company President and VP/CIO. One major reason for this is so that they can get a better understanding of what is going on in IT and how it impacts the company overall. Ideally, with the ideas and sharing, these guys will have a better appreciation for us, adjust our budgets appropriately, and help us in our business.
However, many of us are wary to speak about what is going on because it will inevitably reveal problems with the company. We are worried about what we discuss coming back to our directors ultimately to bite us. I am curious what my fellow Slashdot readers have done in similar circumstances, where there is a great chance to let someone high up in your company know of problems so that they can be rectified, but whereby revealing them you may get hurt in the process."
Our IT department did something similar to this last year, and had the same concerns. We decided to make it a themed costume party, and we all dressed as our favorite sci-fi characters. We gave management the earful they wanted, and the next day we all got an email saying "R2D2 is sooo fired!" but they never figured out who it was.
Dilbert!
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
If your company is having problems and you don't feel safe doing your duty and informing the higher ups, you need to start looking for a new job. In the meantime, don't rock the boat.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
at least you have a job, you insensitive clod!
Talk about the good things first, then air your complaints as suggestions.
--
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1) Talk about how awesome you are.
2) Talk about how much more you could do with "just a few more dollars".
3) Talk about how other departments suck.
4) Despite other departments sucking, you improvised, adapted, and overcame.
5) In conclusion, we're awesome, and should beg for the chance to spend money on us.
Just rememeber to show them how reset their computers with the Dilbert "shake" method and tell them that IT is going GREAT and that with all the money your department saves you deserve a raise. And whatever you do do NOT mention anything about the "token rings" being lost in the "ether".
You may be tempted to get everything (problems) out at dinner, but usually this will harm you in the long run. Be extremely careful on what you say, and what you do.
Isn't that what managers are for? It's not your job to inform CxOs that there are problems. Alternatively .. if you're looking to get into management, this could be your chance.
There is probably no good way of doing this at the company dinner. The size (50-80) makes it even more difficult as probably everybody will know (recognize) everybody else. You do not want to be the whistle blower of any kind. Sort of a catch-22 if you will.
A better way that I've seen happen at my place is an anonymous ballot kind of thing. If the executives are interested, they will read the ballot. If not, well, then you live and learn.
My 0.02$
Free XBox, PS2
You have to be able to bring an error to some ones attention... If no one is willing to pickout and notify of errors you get something like Windows.. So as an IT pro, you must be willing to do that for the sake of the product. Thats just my thought..
At a large company that I worked for in the past, we had the opportunity to give criticism to the higher ups about all the things that we'd like improved etc. You know that manager of yours that in one way or another always blames his director for the hardships bestowed on your group? Well, we mentioned that during the surveys and meetings that we had. "If only the director would do this.. or that.." Well, one member of our group who'd been around for 6+ years at the company warned us that this was all a sham; not to criticize anything. Well, it did. About a week later the manager called us all into a meeting and while even shedding a tear, he told us that we were all ungreatful and that we'd get no more perks from him with him pulling his weight to get us things. 3 people quit shortly after. Tread VERY lightly and don't place blame on any singular management entity.
A carefully considered, previously agreed-upon statement would be fine, but I would cringe at anyone who would speak "off the cuff" to management. If you can approach them in the right way, you may well end up with what you need. Or at least what they think you need. Anyone in your department who has a deep-seated need to impress the brass should be given the wrong location and time for the dinner. Best of luck!
"Never pet a burning dog."
Upper management should always have feedback from managers about what's going on in IT.
In your managers aren't letting their managers know what's important, and why, then they aren't doing their job.
You shouldn't have to end run to directors to get the information up there
Shaun Nelson - Bastard Operator (From Hell / For Hire)
I think if you're management isn't addressing the questions you have, you should be upfront and honest to the executives in the company about the problems you are facing. However, what issues you are dealing with? Is your IT spending up, is there talk of layoffs, what are your actual problems with your company's IT infrastructure?
It's good that your president/CIO are having these discussions with you, as it shows they are concerned and want to know how to drive profit in their industry. They are concerned with the bottom line, so be honest and try to address the problems with the bottom line in mind. Will adding 1 million to the IT budget save 10 million? If you have concerns, or better, if you have ideas, share them, but only if you think they will help. Don't say you need 2million in new computers without explaining why that would drive profit up.
If the executives are really taking the time to try to understand the issues that IT is having, maybe it's time to drop the defensiveness and be frank with your department's issues. There's no need to be accusative or plaintive. You just need to say that A, B, and C are the problems and that X, Y, and Z are the best solutions that IT believes exist.
Management does not want to know what your problems are. They want to know what your solutions are. Prepare to give them solutions to your problems.
I have been pwned because my
Have you seen the movie "office space" ? If not rent it and see it before going there.
- People who believe other people have no right to live, got no right to live ...
but I have to agree with what a lot of other people said.
Be *extremely* careful. Even valid and obvious complaints can get you in a lot of trouble.
My advice? Keep your mouth shut.
Talk in terms of ROI, TCO and other clear business benefits, otherwise they wont care.
It would seem to me that problems within the IT group should be brought to your manager / director or whoever is just above you in the chain of command before it would go to the CIO or VP. If the director sees fit to bring it to the executive level, then they should. Only if your direct supervisor is neglecting to fix problems / bring severe problems to their boss, should you have to go above their head to the executive level. I know that sounds like the Office Space problem of having 8 bosses, and that might not make sense in a business of 50-60 people as described - but it makes more sense in much larger organizations.
Just smile, nod and enjoy the free food. Sure, it would be nice to try and let the executives know the problems you are facing, but as the Dispair poster says, "Sometimes the best way to increse moral is to fire all the unhappy people." You aren't unhappy are you?
Seriously, you, and a large portion of the staff should discuss the idea of all suggestions being given to the exec anoymously. Try to find someway to disassociate the idea from the person. Granted this isn't perfect, but it might help some.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Perform your duties as enumerated in your job description. No more, no less. Don't try to make things better, because you'll only piss people off who can make your life hell.
Anything you say to the higher-ups will eventually trickle down to your immediate supervisor(s). If it makes them look bad, you'll eat shit until you quit or are otherwise drummed out of the company.
Take it from someone who's been there... if you're an IT geek, when it comes to corporate politics, your kung fu is weak. Period. Accept it.
Keep your head down, do only what you're supposed to, and keep your resume polished anyway, because you never know when your job will move overseas no matter how good you are at doing it.
Realistically, how much can anyone learn from a dinner with 80 people, the vast majority of whom are going to be complete strangers? This is going to be a chance for the executives to mouth platitudes, for the IT "leadership" to get their knees and noses dirty, and for the peons to get a dinner that will come out of the Christmas bonus, ultimately.
I advise you chat up the bartender, and try to get a six-pack or two into your laptop bag.
We are worried about what we discuss coming back to our directors ultimately to bite us.
Depends on what stage of ossification your company is in: early, middle, or late.
From the tone of IT concerns, you are in late stages, so shut up. When there are vested interests, the messenger always get shot.
Campaign finance reform is national security.
If the answers are that he genuinely wants to improve things, is a no-BS type of person, and seems to be able to take criticism, then by all means take this gift and use it! Be specific, but try to not assign blame. Approach every issue from the perspective that it isn't a huge problem but rather an opportunity for improvement.
Good luck!
I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.
The right thing to do:
Be open and honest with the PHBs. Don't sugar-coat anything that much, and if your honest assesment of a problem doesn't please them, then you may want to start looking for another job.
The normal thing to do:
Suck up to them and blame the problems on others. That way you'll get a pay raise and your co-workers will not be held in as high regard.
I would like to think I'd do the right thing in a situation similar to yours, but I honestly don't know if I could risk my job because of an execs stupidity.
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
Whenever you pose a problem, follow it up with a solution. That way it doesn't sound like you're complaining. Having solutions shows you actually care about your job and the company. Then you just need the go ahead to fix the problems.
Guess what? There are other jobs out there. Better ones than you have now, probably. No sense cowering in a hole somewhere because of what *might* occur.
Best to use this opportunity to differentiate yourself from the rest of the smelly IT bozos in your division. Jed, your cubemate, is not going to further your career. The execs you have an opportunity to talk with, can.
There's the usual "ill news is an ill guest" concern, but I believe for a company to properly progress problems should be put on display for executive analysis. Isn't it their jobs to be fixing the kinds of issues that crop up when IT can't quite do its job?
Having worked at a family company (and being part of the family), there's always a certain amount of leeway I get, when I need to bring up issues in the company. But being a younger family member, the only reason I get listened to is because I try and give an fair, honest and balanced (no relation to Fox news "balanced") response to issues that arise.
No company is without problems. But a good executive shows his quality by listening to his employees when they say something important.
what's the other evil? if the problem involves IT, then the solution may involve changes to your work environment, which might be less than appealling. different responsabilities; lower budget; no job..
I'd say if the matter is important enough, but it directly affects you, then it's a choice between the company's best interests and your best interests.
click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
Send out an email to your IT staff, avoiding the managers. Let them know that a box will be made available at some accessable point, where anonymously _typed_ papers can be dropped off.
Encourage folks to not only write down the bad stuff, but write up good things as well. And always give examples and suggestions with the bad. But make sure that the examples focus on the issues, not specific people.
Deliver the box to the VP/manager/PHB and tell him it was done this way to prevent personal bias influencing the issues.
Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
You will do no good by ranting and raving when you get the chance to talk to the higher-ups.
You also should refrain from bad-mouthing any particular individuals (unless absolutely and obviously necessary), or you will appear to have an axe to grind.
Phrase concerns in terms of the organization or department.
I went through this several years ago. Over the course of 90 minutes I laid out my concerns and [what I saw as] impediments to the organization and its future. The chief exec at the end of the table listened carefully and seemed to appreciate the candor (e.g. we have ~22 people on staff and 8 of them are designated as the 'managemenet team'; 7 people on staff were actually billable most of the time (supporting the rest), etc.).
Nutshel version: be concise, be respectful, and don't point fingers.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Don't say anything negative. Never. NOT ever. This is twice as true in regards to other dept or managers. This is thrice as true, if someone starts talking about how it's ok to open up and talk as equals.
Everything should be phrased in the manner of how things could be better if "Thing A" was able to happen.
If the whole thing turns sour, be sure to have your resume up-to-date, since the effects will be targeted along the lines of: "Were they at the dinner?"
First off I don't know that a dinner (formal, informal?) is the appropriate setting for a whistleblowing and/or gripe session. Seems like more of an opportunity for schmoozing, selling some otherwise hard to budget ideas, laying groundwork for later proposals, etc.
:)
That said, if you feel you must forge ahead and divulge all of your departments glaring drawbacks to the higherups, remember to have your facts straight and well-documented. What avenues have been tried previously to rectify the problems? Does the fault lie in the process or in a person? Has the boss been made aware of this already? Which brings me to the last point: Unless the disposition of the offending supervisor (e.g. vindictive) prohibits, have a one-on-one with him/her *before* giving the goods the the VP.
Oh and remember to use a lot of passive sentence structures
I went to the city because I wished to live without deliberation.
I'd treat this event as a getting-to-know-you opportunity, and stop there. Be your best, most professional, likeable, and qualified version of yourself, to establish yourself to the suits as someone who cares about the company. If there are things they need to hear, you'll then have a better chance of them being taken seriously later, in a less hazardous context.
At medium and large size companies, the best action to take is no action at all. If an executive wishes to solicit your input, they'll ask for it in a meeting, all hands or at a social event. Not respecting the "chain of command" and bypassing your manager and director causes ruffled feathers. If you're trying to expose something illegal or something that is very harmful to the company, try HR. Going above your manager and director's heads will only alienate them towards you.
As others have posted, this can be a very tricky situation to be placed in. My old company had something similar for a few non-IS departments, and it resulted in "restructuring" whereby the ones who raised issues were "restructured" out of their jobs.
My advice would be to place the ball firmly in the CXXs' courts. If the corporate-level people are committed to change, digging out the worst problems and solving them, they shouldn't balk at the suggestion that this be an ongoing arrangement.
In other words, if someone were to stand up at this meeting and say, "Hey, I think this is a great opportunity to solve some issues that impede our progress. Will there be some way for us to get you suggestions beyond this meeting?"
If the Cxx answers, "No, this is pretty much how we want to handle it - one meeting," I'd say their motives aren't what they want you to believe they are. If they like the suggestion, however, and suggest that there could be some informal gathering or way of identifying such issues, I'd be more trusting of their motives.
Just don't allow them to leave it at a "planned" stage without followthrough. Ask for specific dates, times, etc., to identify responsible parties, and ask how these sessions will be structured.
When the second or the third such meeting rolls around, and it looks like things are getting attention and respect, *then* I'd feel better about speaking up.
- Jack
So I guess I'd question whether or not the whole event will turn out exactly as you're thinking it might in the first place.
Do you think that the President and CIO really want detailed feedback from an intimate dinner of 50 - 80 people?
No.
Ideally, with the ideas and sharing, these guys will have a better appreciation for us, adjust our budgets appropriately, and help us in our business.
Now, they may want to get the pulse of the group, an overall feeling. They may want to put some faces to email addresses. They may want you to know how your work affects the other groups (or get a feeling for how much dependencies you feel with other groups). But they aren't interested in "I need a new 30-inch Cinema Display." They aren't even interested in "My boss is an idiot," (unless EVERYONE thinks that ALL 6 managers in your department are idiots.)
Keep it very high level -- we don't have sufficient visibility on upcoming projects, we're having problems prioritizing between demands from the CxO and the CyO.
Also, try to phrase things so the manager is on your side -- "my manager is having trouble saying no to the CxO, and we all could use a little support here." You may not really beleive he's on your side, or not want him on your side, but at least when your comments get back to him, you can claim you were looking out for everyone's best interests.
If no-one talks, then don't expect any problems to get solved.
Do the following:
1)List all of the issues you would like to raise.
2)Go back through the list and pick the few that you think are most important.
3)For each issue script a clear description, and most importantly, script a solution to the problem. If you don't have a workable solution, then never escalate the problem. Without a proposed solution, the manager will feel that s/he needs to find a solution, which is not always ideal.
4)Bring up only the 1 or 2 most important issues at the dinner. In that environment, any more than that stuff will be forgotten.
Bring up issues that will matter to upper management. Don't bring up crap like "The IT Director wants all of us to partition our drives a certain way, but that is not always optimal". Bring up stuff that effect finances and/or employee morale.
Finally, don't single out people for criticism ("My boss is an idiot!!"), but don't always hold back because you are afraid of the consequences. If your choose your actions based on fear of being trampled upon, then be prepared to always be trampled upon.
Keep in mind that upper management sometimes does care about the company. If they don't know about problems, they can't fix them.
That's the absolute worst thing to do. I did this once (who can pass up free booze?) and although I had one hell of a time, I soon found that I was no longer being assigned plum projects.
"Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the smartest thing we ever did.." Homer Simpson
If your company is having problems and you don't feel safe doing your duty and informing the higher ups, you need to start looking for a new job.
In case you haven't heard: the IT economy ain't doing so hot. Getting a new job isn't quite as easy as you are implying.
never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever point the finger or put blame on any one person or group of people...it will bite you in the ass one way or another!
dude.
Ding ding ding. How about telling the execs the above?
Sample, off the top of my head: "Well, to be honest, we do have some problems, but we don't really feel comfortable going over our bosses heads, and we think that it would strain relations, interfere with teamwork, and hurt productivity. If you assure us you'll work with our bosses in a positive way, instead of coming down on them for the problems we name, we'll be happy to give you some of our views."
Anyway, I've done this, sorta. At my last job, I asked our president and CEO(Cathi Raffaeli) at an employee meeting(after nearly a minute of silence after she asked for feedback) the following: "It's been over a year since we merged and brought in these other companies. We've still got two completely seperate networks, and people can't print to printers sitting next to them, or share files with employees from the other company, because the networks are still seperate. It's causing a lot of aggrivation for us on the support side, and a lot of frustration and lost productivity for end-users. When will this be solved?" Yes, it was a loaded question- but it was intended to be a loaded question for someone else.
She deferred to my bosses's boss(Jerry Lepore- the someone else)- who was supposed to be on the speakerphone, as he worked out of the other office down in Georgia. Well, good ol' Jerry wasn't there anymore- he had hung up on the MANDATORY meeting quite a while ago. She was left standing going "Uhhhh...". It was like those commercials where they play tape recordings of conversations with CEOs and ask them a general question about their IT and they just stammer. She had no clue. Probably because she was a banking exec in charge of a software company.
Even though she's a wicked nasty little bitch- I've never met such a stuck up, I-want-my-latte-and-I-want-it-an-hour-ago executive(she once called US and had US running around to figure out why she was stuck on Route 95 in lower CT- which gridlocks every morning without fail...and she went through THREE executive assistants in under a year) I felt bad, and stopped by her office after the meeting an apologized for putting her into the situation. That probably smoothed things over a little, but I did hear later that Jerry was absolutely ripshit- but couldn't do anything, because it would have been recognized immediately as revenge. The guy may have only been a high school science teacher(I shit you not- VP of technology, whose only work experience was high school science), but at least he wasn't THAT stupid.
I tell you- it was, however, entirely worth it when a fellow employee bumped into me in the lunchroom while my boss was having lunch, and said "Gee, you really stuck it to Cathi with that question!" He nearly choked... :-)
Please help metamoderate.
the executive was really talking to the garbage can all night. This is why alcohol should not be served at company functions.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
When executive management has this type of meeting with the entire department it means they do not have confidence in their manager's ability to manage otherwise they wouldn't have (or need) the meeting. It's a sure sign of more serious problems within the company.
As head of an IT department, it's my job to communicate the problems/concerns my staff bring to my attention that I can not address at my level. It is equally important for the staff to understand that, unless they are working for a charity, the object of the game is profit and they are there to make the company money (or at least not cost it as much). The value of a good management team is that this type of communication is natural and automatic.
I didn't want anyone to wast their mod points on that. Is there any other way to get modded down automaticlly.
Maybe it's experiment time. Wait for an article on a subject you know fairly well. Prepare a long, we'll articulated post. Include quotes from industry experts, and a few useful links. Even double check your grammar and spelling. Choose your best +5 material. When your post is ready, set the subject to something like: "Taco sucks asian boy wanker".
As the previous poster says and my boss always tells me, emphasize all the things that are positive, and indicate how things could be even better.
Upper management is always interested in improving things from a business perspective. It its very helpful if your suggestions have easily measurable value. Obvious cost savings, reduced development time, fewer support calls, additional services, etc... The improvements should be easily quantifiable and verifiable. Figure out how to say this in a few minutes. If they seem interested, you can follow up with an e-mail with additional detail.
Ask yourself if you're looking for a forum to vent your grievances about your boss, your coworkers or the office politics. If you are then don't bother; it will only make things worse.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
If a firecracker explodes on your open palm, you'll get burned, but you'll probably recover. If you close your hand around it, the explosion will more than likely mangle your hand.
It's similar when it comes to dealing with situations where you're dealing with senior managers. I don't know if your company is 50-80 people or your IT department is 50-80 people, but I assume you are anticipating some "face time" at this event. You're correct in assuming that the issues you bring up are going to be communicated back to your bosses. You'd be stupid to think otherwise. But a little tact goes a long way when it comes to speaking to your boss's boss. (or your boss's boss's boss)
First, don't turn the conversation into a bitch session. The last thing you want is for the higher-ups in your company to think that all you can do is mope and complain. They'll remember it when the next round of downsizing comes along, and you'll be doing your moping and complaining on the unemployment line. Instead, maintain a generally positive attitude. If you can't do that, you work for the wrong company and need to move on, anyway.
Second, frame the issues you wish to bring up in terms of opportunity instead of attacking individuals. Suppose your boss is a terrible communicator, and sends out project requests in short emails instead of discussing them with you and detailing specifications and requirements. Instead of:
That's making a fist around a firecracker. Frank, regardless of how poor his communication skills might be, is going to be rightfully upset when that gem gets back to him through the grapevine. Instead, say:
I hope you see the difference. The issue is framed as one of communication, as opposed to a defect in Frank's personality. Similarly, instead of:
Try:
You might undergo some pain, especially if you are assigned the project of upgrading, replacing the email server, but nothing compared to what you'd experience if Bob felt like you were badmouthing him to his boss.
Finally, speak about things you know. If you're the network admin, bring up issues related to the network. If you're a web monkey, bring up the web site. Don't just blast things you really have no business commenting on. You might feel like your company's sales team is a bunch of lying, egg-sucking weasels. Most sales teams are. But it's not related to your sphere of expertise, therefore it's not appropriate to address. Starting a war with another department is DEFINITELY grabbing a lit firecracker. And it may be more akin to lighting the firecracker and popping it in your mouth. Only, instead of a firecracker, you swallow a lit stick of dynamite. (Now, THAT is taking an analogy too far!)
All too often, geeks take business issues personally, when there are often simple, business-related explanations. Bob isn't tormenting you with the crappy mailserver because he doesn't like you, he can't replace it until next year because the company spent $1 million bucks on yet another ERP/CRM upgrade. When you take things down a notch, and address the issues instead of the personalities, then it almost inevitably breeds a more positive tone. Frank may be a dickhead, or he may just be a techie who hasn't learned much about managing people.
Third, don't try to solve all the world's problems in one night. You won't have the time. Pick some important issues, frame them as opportunities for improvem
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necessary for corporate expansion (i know there's a joke here somewhere), but not discussed in mixed company (boardmembers, clients, etc). okay, maybe i'm stretching the analogy, but IT is important, and a smart managment group will recognize this.
IMHO you shouldn't go into the meeting airing departmental dirty laundry, and don't use the opportunity to settle any political scores. do realize that the IT department is an important corporate entity, leverage that fact, and don't be afraid to be a little political.
maybe the group of you should all meet before hand and come up with a list of things you've accomplished as a dept, things you'd like to accomplish in the next year(2 or 3 years even), and list the reasons how these improvements can help save/make money for the company.
if you play your cards right, you might even find yourself being the big swinging dicks of your company...
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
Making the whole discussing into a "bitch" session will only turn the upper-management off. No one wants to be bitched at and the negative feelins will make any real issues harder to deal with.
I hate to be a dick about it, but this sounds eerily like what has been going on with the Finance community. Not reporting correctly. This just sounds like deceit plain and simple. People in the financial world are going to jail for not reporting correctly. Granted, your situation may not be as serious, but it certainly could be and not being honest and up front isn't going to help things one bit when a poorly built house of cards comes tumbling down. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but in the long run, honesty really is the best policy. A lot of cliches? yeah, but they are cliches for a reason.
Another poster wrote "get your resume ready". I agree. Hiding things won't make them any less of an issue later. In fact, I think these things have a way of getting bigger and worse.
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
If you are not politically deft enough to have a preexisting relationship with the people above your management then I'd say that you should steer clear of any major criticism. If you do have a relationship with the upper crust, then by all means try to blast your immediate manager as much as possible. Any chance you have "outside" the office to talk to the higher ups should be used to springboard yourself up the ladder. That's how they do it, that's how you should do it.
Don't come to me with problems; come to me with solutions.
Provide the proper context. Move the conversation forward. Focus on the positives Network first When it comes down to it though, you know your company and coworkers better that we do, and must act accordingly. Some tactics may work at one company, but would be totaly inapproprate at another."terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
In my experience Management believe that throwing money at hardware or software will fix their problems. Or better yet we will outsource. The basic things they seem to forget or have not learned are:
Most management decisions are made out of ignorance and head burying so the existing problems are not known in the hope all symptoms will remain hidden.
The weathers here - Wish you were beautiful
"Keep telling your colleagues about all the problems you wish to tell them about. Then keep very quiet in the meeting, they'll come out. ;-)"
He's right. Once I farted in a meeting, but didn't say "Smell that?" Everybody suspected the guy next to me.
"Derp de derp."
I have a professor (who is quite excellent) who usedto work for a large telecommunications company as an executive prior to his retirement. I've spent a large amount of time talking to him, and I think I'm fairly certain I know what he would recommend, or at least something similar to what he himself would have done in such a situation. :) He currently works as a business efficiency expert for contract.
:)
If you're going to say anything at all, don't waste your breath being petty or mentioning minor instances of complaints. Cut right to the thick of the matter, and give him your assessment and the logic behind your assessment. Preferably, have a writeup/short report (one or two pages) to hand him for later peruseal with well-outlined points. Don't mention names, but point him in the right direction so that he doesn't feel like he's bringing the axe down on your recommendations, but on his 'own' decision - which he somehow reached after your carefully worded suggestion.
If there is a sizeable group of people, break the concerns up amongst you. Get together at a bar or somewhere a couple days prior to the dinner, get a list, and then distribute the list amongst willing contributors, so that no one person gets the heat. It would be incredibly stupid for anyone short of the president to try and pull down heat on a group of that size.
If you catch heat from middle management afterwards, guess what? That just means that they're pissed tha the president is making changes based on your apt suggestions. If he revokes priviledges/perks or fires you, write off a little letter to the president letting hiim know what happened. that middle management will likely be looking for a job soon, too. Then see if you can't get the president to be a job reference.
The ability to see and try to solve real (as opposed to created)problems is a valueable ability to have, and a very valueable asset for any company; if they ignore that asset, you're best off looking for a job, because truely, your position there isn't secure in the least - the company isn't likely terribly secure, if they punish real problem solving.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I want to say first that it depends upon the culture of your company. You also don't say at what sort of level you work in the company, so I'm assuming at least several levels down from the management.
If you are peopled by weasels (is that possible?) then the best advice is always to watch your back.
If your company is hugely political then politics is valued and it's best to approach it like that.
On the other hand, the fact that your management is meeting you at all suggests that you are working in a well-balanced company. If that's the case you should speak the truth when asked, without dumping anyone in the muck; that's a good way to make enemies. You should be polite and only discuss major points.
Your management has a different view on the company from you. They have to take the whole company into account, and you are naturally most interested in your corner. Having a bitch about the cubicles in the IT area won't win bonus points, but if you talk about how the sales people don't have good enough kit for their jobs you will. So - focus on what are problems for other people, and how to solve them.
Don't expect your management to do everything you suggest - and don't get despondent if they don't do the things that you think are most important. They have to prioritise across the whole company and should be giving weight to those areas that will bring the biggest benefit to the whole company. This doesn't mean that they didn't hear what you said, and didn't want to do anything. It may simply mean that there are higher priorities at the moment.
Do talk to your management as if they are people and not uber-gods. Try to avoid geek-speak. Do dress smartly - even if you wouldn't normally - it will reinforce your point of view. Don't drink much - you don't think as well - even though you are convinced that you do.
Hope that's some help.
Jeff
IT loses money (unless you sell IT). The rest of the company (except for HR and Accounting) make money for the company and you spend it.
It is very important to socialize with the people above you and help them understand how much you're actually saving the company by the things you're doing.
Remember, there are other people who will be happy to smooze the higher ups if it means they can replace you. Out-sourcing is an example of this. And those people will have no problem telling big lies about how much money they will save the company.
It's a sad fact of the business world, but social contacts count as much as technical skills in most companies.
Do the drinks and dinner scene.
Keep it simple. Don't overwhelm them with technical details. If you see their eyes glaze over, you're providing them too much detail. Keep the answers short and concise. Give the suits the summary of the summary of the Cliff Notes for Dummies of the summary on the back of the paperback edition #2. I mean you have to eliminate almost all detail. Make them ask you for more detail BUT don't abuse it with too much detail when you do give them more. This is like the first date. Scratch that. This is you making the phone call that arranges the date. Scratch that. This is the wink that gets you the number to call. You can't give them too much detail or 1) you're scare them away, and 2) they'll already know everything about you (the project) and won't need you anymore. KISS-FSP. Keep It Simple Stupid, For Stupid People.
Don't be afraid to share problems. If you're in a job that you feel you can't share a problem with management then you're in the wrong job. Pack up and move out. Believe me, it's not worth the grief. You shouldn't have to watch your back for the next inbound sharpened object. Grow a set and lay it on the line.
Anyhow, that's my $.02 before taxes. Best of luck.
The execs have nothing to lose and everything to gain from this type of meeting. They can hear geeks talking about IT this and IT that and see how the company (and their whole little world) revolves around their IT centric viewpoint. They can hear the smarter IT guys providing constructive criticism and feedback, or maybe even about methods they've researched that may save some budget $$s. I think the really smart IT guys are going to talk less and listen more.
So many times I've worked (in a consultative capacity) with different IT shops. One thing I always run into is a totally IT centric viewpoint of the company. I can't blame a lot of well meaning techs for this, but at the same time you should never forget that you work for a cost center, not one of the core departments generating revenue for the company. To make the most of a meeting like this, I (as an IT guy) would focus on learning more about the *business* that is paying my paycheck, and then try to translate that knowledge into a better understanding of how IT can make the business more successful.
I once had a consulting gig in the IT department of a large contruction company. At lunch one day their new CIO boasted that he is now working for an information technology company that just happens to design and manage large construction projects as well.
That CIO did not last long at that company.
My advice? Keep your mouth shut.
Of course be careful. But there are many ways to play this. A conservative strategy is of course the safest, but it isn't necessarily the best. You have to decide what you want out of the encounter. Do you really want to spend life pussyfooting around because you might offend somebody powerful? That's no way to win respect, certainly not of senior management.
This is a chance to get noticed, and it could also be a chance to kick your career up a notch, if you are interested in that. If you just want to get through with this, then don't get noticed. If you want to change things then do get noticed.
The key in any kind of encounter like this is to understand what the other person would like to get out the encounter. Management has two functions: providing direction and removing obstacles. Basically, management ideally should be 90% shitwork and 10% leadership. Most managers know this but being human would rather spend 90% of their time doing leadership and 10% the other stuff. In other words most managers are lousy. It follows that any shitwork you can take off the boss's plate automatically makes your life easier. I'm preaching the gospen of win-win here: You should not be thinking how management can make IT's life easier, how to you each help each other get what you want?
So, what to do if you are sitting next the CEO and he starts chatting you up? It's not about what the CEO can do for you, it's what you can do for the CEO. That means knowing him probably better than you do and, harder yet, taking him (or her) more seriously than you probably do now. What are his pet issues? Conversely, what tare the things that he's spending his time dealing with he'd rather not be?
On the other hand, you can't ignore the leadership side of the equation either. What are easy ways this guy can become a hero to IT? How can he kick himself up a notch against his peers when it comes to bragging rights? What is is vision for the company and how to you fit in? That means, study the business plan, yes, even take the mission statement for a few minutes if you can manage it. If there have been press releases or if he's been quoted in the trade press know what he's about. Study the company wide internal memos. If the boss is fixated on stuff that seems superficial, remember he has to sell the company to the world, and the world is fixated on superficial stuff too. Reorient your perspective for a moment and put yourself on his side.
Of course, you may not get the chance, given the numbers, but it pays to be prepared, and have a plan. This really is too much advice to put into effect in a brief encounter. It's a lot like a job interview -- you might get lucky and get everything you need out the first encounter, but what you want to ensure is that you get asked back. That means studying the opportunity, having a rough plan of where you want to go, but being flexible to follow the boss's lead.
Or you could run like hell, which is perfectly legitimate if you'd rather keep the status quo.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I agree with your points, but you are forgetting exactly how much management subordinates/discredits/undervalues/detests/fears us.
"IT provides a service. We know that the service must be worth something, but we understand nothing about it. If we cannot understand it, then it cannot be important, but everybody has an IT department so we better have one. But it is filled with inexperienced children who have not spent their life climbing the corporate ladder, so they cannot understand the "complexity" of the business and how it needs to improve. But we have to have them, and they make almost as much as we do so we better smile when they are around. Please, please don't let them say anything because I will feel stupid because they know all this jargon that I do not. But they do not understand business as well as management and we set the rules so we are on top and my life is worthwhile. Just do not let them speak."
The big issue is that all computer technology is just magic to management. Computers seem to help the business, but the effects usually cannot be quantified until after they are deployed. So why do it? Because all the management magazines tell them that some other company used software for something and is now saving tons of money.
We save them when they have lost that important file, but they know they would not have lost it if it was on paper. Almost everything with computers means they have to learn something new, and they hate that.
The other side is that we are often closely involved with many parts of the business. We hear the complaints from the whole company. We may not know the big picture, but most working IT people could quickly pick 5 tasks that could be cheaply improved by technology in completely non-IT departments, because they know what is frustrating the employees.
I posted a story about trying to sell a business process improvement. I believe I did it on their terms. I reminded them how many people were required to fix the bad data. I demonstrated how this system was better. I talked about how the related processes would be integrated to improve accuracy and reduce the cost across the enterprise. I did not talk about technology other than to say the current hardware could easily handle it. I got some excitement from them, but lost because THEY CANNOT JUDGE GOOD SOFTWARE FROM BAD SOFTWARE even after they use it.
I am in a special position here. They are not my only client, but I worked almost 1000 hours last year FOR THEM, and they spent more for my services than for the 60-hours-every-week IT manager (including all compensation.) I probably cost them as much as his boss, the decision-maker. I am the high-priced outside expert who has an unbroken record of delivering better than they require before any deadlines and always staying under the budget. I do business strategy consulting at other companies. They should greatly respect my opinions, but I am still "just an IT guy."
And it does not help that I look young. The white hair keeps going away when I do not work. I almost wish it would all turn white so I would look older. The "decision-maker" is only 10 years older, but has a full head of white hair. Maybe I should dye (bleach?) mine.
If you really want to get a suggestion to management, have a salesperson from another company contact them and tell them that this idea is incredible and all the other companies are doing it and they need it too. He will get much more respect than any employee, and has much more credibility than any nerd.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
The term Corporate America is just another tired Slashdot bogeyman. I've worked in several companies in Europe and Asia (locals, not overseas offices of US companies), and I assure you that people are a lot more willing to complain publicly in US companies.
In both the UK and Japan, if it weren't for the practice of going out as a work team and drinking together several nights a week, you'd have no idea what some people were thinking.
And I've never seen the kind of silent hatred for bosses in the US that I've seen overseas. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in some industries, but in my experience, if you hate your boss that much in the US, you either leave or get thrown out. Overseas, it's a lot riskier to leave and a lot harder for them to throw you out, so you stay and smolder silently while your boss, who can't throw you out, works on ruining your life, which he can do as long as you don't leave.
You've never seen office politics unless you've worked somewhere where the people are virtually trapped together for a lifetime. Corporate America, where the jerks come and go relatively quickly, is a picnic in comparison. (Think of a US university faculty and you'll get more of the feeling.)
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
been there done that. to be honest ya wanna know what happens when this takes place? the VP looses his job, his replacement comes in on a "clean-slate" basis and replaces all of upper management siting that "our current staff can not adapt to our technology needs". in the end you end up loosing all your good connections in the company getting replaced by green-horns with MCSE's and no real world experience trying to convert your "legacy" (about to move to linux) network to the *latest tech* windows system. FUCKING TRUST ME I'VE BEEN THERE 4 DAMN TIMES!!!
is a damn plague where I live. PLEASE IT GUYS do not enlighten your exec's to your job. it works SOO much better when they only know enough to quote laptop prices and say "hey, can I use XP?"
I speak from YEARS of experience here. please no -1 troll mod. I really am serious (although a bit jaded due to my loosing 2 jobs on this subject, but bailing from another 2 because of the patternistic behavior).
you're better off backing your IT manager in a corner and trully explaining to him/her how things are and letting them talk to the exec's than hearing it from the geeks. if you do it I swear unless you hold a Ph.D in bullshit you will only end up making things worse. as the poster said it shows the minor problems with a company that can seem massive to an exec but are a daily routine for an IT professional. it's just not wise to report such things to mangement.
On the real, your IT director/manager is there for you. if you look bad he does. and in most situations your manager is newer than you so image is a big thing. make him look good by explaining to him the problems and time lines for repair/completion and use his purported skills to improve your image. thats why there is a layer between IT and management (although we all know we are like -1 link behind the CEO as we _ALL_ do massive favors for them).
trust me guys/gals, been there done that. I hope someone can back me up on this.
I know all situations will not be like this but trust me on this one, experience is a mutha. . . seen it soo many times I wanted to puke when reading this article just from bad memories. Remember PHB's will always be PHB's. You can teach them untill your blue in the face and they'll still ask 'why did my computer lock up after opening that attachment from that person that said "ILOVEYOU"?'
But it is filled with inexperienced children who have not spent their life climbing the corporate ladder, so they cannot understand the "complexity" of the business and how it needs to improve.
Your response proved just how correct "they" are in their assessment. IT folks have RARELY "climbed the corporate ladder" but since they've conquered minor technological feats noboby else knows about they act as if they themselves put the man on the moon.
I work with/in/around IT, design websites for advanced functionality, and primarily produce highly technical and difficult scientific content. And I'm in B to B sales to Fortune 50 companies, working with their marketing teams to develop solutions to their needs.
Believe me, they "get it" more than you imagine. They drop major dollars annually to develop novel technologies across the board. Integrating systems, driving sales, delivering content, aggregating data, they do it all as part of their daily lives. And they deal with internal "childlike" IT departments who cop 'tudes and don't deliver on anything that they don't want to. Marketing teams with ultimate culpability to their management, who's heads can roll on a dime, don't appreciate the 'tude from the IT bozo down the hall who refuses to post a presentation to the intranet site and whines that nobody appreciates their skill at hiding prOn on the team servers and p2p trading all day at work. Realize that most of the time, IT support leads with one word... No. Marketing teams have enough barriers in their day, and the bullshit barriers of corporate IT departments result in... hiring consultants who will do it. Or be fired. Just like your marketing team members.
I deal with these "IT children" daily. They never realize that I can out-geek them, and when they whine that "it can't be done (read... I'm too busy reading the Onion)" I throw my laptop on the screen and do it right there in front of them and their manager.
As far as your putting together a program "on their terms" and not gaining acceptance... quit your whining. Too many IT folks are judged by a jury of 1 or 2 of their friends on the "coolness" of their solution. You haven't done it on their terms until you've faced 1000 rejections and finally provided them with what they want. I do this day in and day out. Proposal, proposal, proposal. A 25% sale rate on proposed solutions is exceptional for the best out there. Don't forget, you're proposing in a competitive environment. Deal with the fact that someone else will have a better idea, or a cheaper development process, or whatever, than you, and you will not win them all. Far from it. Proposing one thing and not hitting on it is like buying a lottery ticket and crying that you aren't a millionaire.
So you consult. Do you propose the solutions day in and day out, or is there a sales person sitting above you, proposing the ideas to the client? Do you understand what the content will be for the widgets you design? How the client will use them? What legal trouble they can get in if you put something stupid in the functionality (every company has some regulatory group to deal with). When you client asks for a "dashboard", do you cringe? Or rise to the challenge?
And when it comes to IT, your customers know what they want... they want the elegant solution. Even the 60 year old manager in a Fortune 50 company is now tech saavy enough to know what a crappy solution looks like. Functionality should be so elegant that it disappears into the background and moves the user on to their next task immediately.
So stop whining, stop insulting your perceived audience, and start perservering. Understand what an entrpreneurial spirit is like, refine your ideas with the understanding that you're not as brilliant as you think, and start understanding that human communication and interface underlies all programming solutions... so start dealing with people and understand teamwork. You'll possibly find a voice with your management that doesn't make you sound like sour grapes or run the risk of getting fired for shooting off a damn fool mouth.
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Exactly. That is what has changed in the last 20-30 years. Once upon a time managers were expected to fully understand and -- in a pinch -- perform the work they managed. Once upon a time executives were expected to fully understand all the component pieces of the organizations they directed. Some of the best (and a few of the worst) rose to running companies from the technical or production ranks of the organizations they later oversaw. Some of the most notable execs founded their companies, coming from technical backgrounds.
Pretty much all the posts here from all viewpoints highlight the complete disconnect today in many companies between executives and what goes on under them. That is what leads to Enron's Jeff Skilling sitting before a congressional committee saying things like "Gee, I just had no idea what was going on in my organization!" I doubt very much that his executive job description contained anything specifying ignorance or absolving him of the responsibility of knowing everything of significance going on under him.
The advice a few posts previously about treating the execs as if they were retarded toddlers was pretty good, it seems to me. That's what many of today's executives are.
Clueless Exec #1: You know, somebody mentioned the other day that we have an IT department.
Clueless Exec #2: Oh? What does it do?
Clueless Exec #1: I dunno. I think we should find out, though. Maybe we can make some cuts and do some cost saving there. I wonder how we can size them up...
Clueless Exec #2: I know! We can schedule a dinner! That will fake them out. They'll think it's a social event and willprobably run off at the mouth and give us a pretty good picture of who isn't a team player and who's rocking the boat. Then we'll know who to cut.
Clueless Exec #1: Perfect! [leans to phone/intercom, gives instructions to executive secretary, finishes, turns back to Clueless Exec #2] Golf tomorrow?
Look at the bright side: there's always seppuku.
Diversified companies were the fashion of the 50's and 60's, throwing together businesses with no noticeable linkages. Trimming those megacorps back down to a "we make 'x'" model was the fashion of the 90's.
Incidentally, the CAT scanner company still exists as Sensaura.
Luke, help me take this mask off
I do this quite often--it's part of my job. First off, consider that at a dinner party, you may not even want to talk too much shop, but rather set the ground work for some other time. More on that later.
This isn't really IT-specific, but when dealing with management, always remember two words: Risk and Cost.
These people are most likely not technical--they've been trained by generations of PWC and McKinsey consultants to expect to be able to boil the most complex problems down to several binary points on a powerpoint slide. Don't be afraid to explain, but be prepared to wade into dangerous water the moment you start with "yes, but..."
Speak clearly, succinctly, never hem and haw, never be afraid to say "I don't know but I'll find out", never bullshit. For right or wrong, you're most likely on their turf (when they're on mine and yours, they tend to get googley-eyed--try taking your boss' boss into a big server room sometime for some fun) and they make the rules.
Don't waste time, don't beat around the bush, be open, make eye contact, don't fidget, don't talk to the whiteboard, don't read off your points, yada yada. Nothing goes over preparation. Use positive words (can, will, etc.)
For non-technical management, technical problems are just another business task. There's nothing special about it--they may even be slightly intimidated by the topic, and thus pay closer attention to individual words of yours (so be prepared to carefully formulate your sentences to not leave any openings.) Ask if there are questions from time to time.
Likewise, there is nothing wrong with being friendly. Think about it this way--who would you rather have describe an accounting problem to you, your boss' boss' boss or your beer-drinking gamer buddy Bert with a finance degree? Same thing applies. Make friends--it's amazing how few technical people understand the importance of getting to know people, socializing, whatnot.
I know these are all general things, but they've helped me tremendously.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
Our European owned Bonds company has just been bought by an American bank. Mr Important Boss comes over, speaks to everyone in the office except IT. He then stands and gives a speech about how wonderful it is to be trading electronically, and how our systems put us at the forefront of blah blah... He says 'Are there any questions?' I ask 'Why is noone in your bank talking to us about our planned systems migration?' He says 'Who are you?' I say 'I'm one of the guys who makes this amazing electronic trading possible' He says 'From a management perspective, I can't say what will happen over the next 3 months with you guys' I say 'In that case, we cannot guarantee that your systems will be working in 3 months...that's not a threat, it's something we said to you 2 months ago in a report we wrote' He says 'Next question....' Basically, they don't give a shit. Most are so old school or elitist that IT is nothing to them....how can we understand their business as well as they do? We're an overhead after all...a cost centre. Having contracted at other City firms, I can say that it's the same for many IT departments.
first of all, if they're really interested in identifying and solving problems, they will need to recognize that you guys are the ones that work around said problems all the time, and having them *not be there* is the best way to be working
second, never EVER bring up a problem for which you can't provide any solution whatsoever - then you're just griping...the first thing they're going to ask when you bring something up is "well, what do you think can be done about it, and how reasonably" - if you shrink into your seat and mumble "idunno" into your water, they'll be dismissive for the rest of the evening
third, walk into the meeting and treat them like you want to be treated. if you yell at them for their shortcomings (perceived or no), they may very well just kick you out of dinner/the company then. if you're calm, collected, and professional, a lot more should come out of it long-term (for the company and your work environment) and they'll think a lot more of you personally
I was not writing about the hostile managers. They are easy to spot. I was not talking about the ineffective or stupid ones; you can work around them. Most management will listen to MY ideas because they want to justify my cost. And I don't have A company; I've been "independent" for 5 years.
This article is about a group of techies mingling with a group of executives. The executives MAY really want the advice of the techies. But I was reminding the techies of what is going through the brains of non-IT management. I am not saying the techies cannot have input, and the parent to my post gave great advice about how to phrase the ideas, but there is still the management meme of "we are in control; we are better; and these people make us feel stupid" that needs to be remembered BY THE TECHIES so that the techies are properly subservient and remember not to talk about technology. I was trying to reinforce the message of the parent post.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.