Sun Sparc 5 Nostalgia

Again? by ArmageddonLord · 2004-01-21 04:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

What do you mean coming alive again? The ECE computer lab here at rutgers it still filled with them!

Re:Again? by the+Man+in+Black · 2004-01-21 04:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

Agreed. My most recent place of employment used one for primary DNS and DHCP. It ran Solaris 2.6, and in two years there I never had any problems with it.

Pizzaboxes may be ancient, but they get the job done. I wouldn't task one as a high-availability database server or anything like that, but if I have them, I'll use them. DNS, DHCP, firewall, log server, etc. etc.

--
El riesgo vive siempre!
Re:Again? by Achoi77 · 2004-01-21 04:30 · Score: 2, Funny

Is that the computer lab under Hill? I don't remember, as I was in school before they created ARC. You aren't referring to those ancient slow computers with the opto/magnetic mouse things that needed that metal mousepad to get it to work, are you? Cause those were SLOW, nobody wanted to use them, unless you had a programming assignment deadline, then that lab would be full to the brim trying to get their assignment to compile. =)
Re:Again? by Frymaster · 2004-01-21 04:40 · Score: 1

in two years there I never had any problems with it.
then you obviously never had to try to get a replacement mousepad for that optical beast.

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2 1337 4 u!
Re:Again? by mritunjai · 2004-01-21 04:40 · Score: 1

Agreed. My most recent place of employment used one for primary DNS and DHCP. It ran Solaris 2.6, and in two years there I never had any problems with it.
Pizzaboxes may be ancient, but they get the job done. I wouldn't task one as a high-availability database server or anything like that

If you didn't have any problems with it in 2 years, what's wrong with using one as high availability database server considering that that box has awesome throughput ?

--
- mritunjai
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:41 · Score: 0

Just post IP here and they will have problems in no time. 2.6 was such a crap version that any kid could download scripts and hack in...
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:51 · Score: 0

DNS and DHCP is, what, sending out a bunch of packets? Whereas a high-availability database server is a lot of disk accessing going on? On an old machine? With worn SCSI drives? Is this getting through?
Re:Again? by boolean0 · 2004-01-21 04:53 · Score: 1

ahh, good old rutgers, i think my favorites were the xterms in the campus labs, a shame they got rid of them, though i managed to snag a couple from surplus. woot
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:59 · Score: 0

No way, d00d! It's Sun, so it has to be comparable to today's PCs, even if it's a 25MHz machine!
Re:Again? by ArmageddonLord · 2004-01-21 05:06 · Score: 1

I was refering to the sparc 5's in the ECE building, but there are old sun machines all over campus.
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:08 · Score: 0

Here at my school as well. I'm typing this message off of an Ultra 5. As for speed in compiling and all, that guy shouldn't expect too much, at least from my experience under Solaris.
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:09 · Score: 0

Don't run many high-availability database servers do you?
Re:Again? by larry+bagina · 2004-01-21 05:09 · Score: 1

With worn SCSI drives?
These machines used IDE. You needed to get a PCI card to get SCSI support. Of course, I'd trust an old IDE drive less than an old SCSI drive...
I have an old NeXT Cube that's been serving ftp, dns, smtp, and static http for the last 4 years without a problem. I did upgrade the memory and replace the hard drive, though.

--
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Re:Again? by bhtooefr · 2004-01-21 05:10 · Score: 1

On an old machine with worn (or brand spanking new consumer grade) ATA-33 IDE drives (unless you have a PCI SCSI controller). RTFA.
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:15 · Score: 0

Shit, it's hard enough just getting a mouse pad for it.
Re:Again? by TgBoat · 2004-01-21 05:24 · Score: 1

I remember those xterms. I did the memory upgrades on those during the summer of '95. I think we upgraded them from 4MB to 8MB. It was a sad day when I heard that the labs at the hill center basement was no more.
Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:52 · Score: 0

Rutgers always had the best labs for CS students. Uber-old sparc stations with optical mice ahead of their time. Black and white 23" monitors... those were the good old days.
Re:Again? by meme_police · 2004-01-21 05:52 · Score: 1

All you need is a piece of paper with a decent pattern. And there are plenty of sample tiffs on the 'net.

--
The meme police, They live inside of my head
Re:Again? by Stardate · 2004-01-21 06:19 · Score: 1

There are still (I think) a couple of xterms in the library on Busch Campus. :)

--
"... I declare our city to be a free and independent state to be named Tri-Insula!" --Fernando Wood, Mayor of NYC 1861
Re:Again? by GoneGaryT · 2004-01-21 07:57 · Score: 1

Exactly.
At my p.o.w., I maintain 2 Ultra 5s, one for primary DNS, the other (w/512Mb RAM) as an internal CP Firewall-1 box. Both run SunOS 5.8 stripped down and I'm not thinking of dumping them anytime soon.
Obsolete? They're current, dammit! :)
Re:Again? by pilybaby · 2004-01-21 12:02 · Score: 1

I was using one of these when I worked for Sun last year. Unfortunatly our remote office had not been lavished with the luxaries of Sun Rays or more than a handful of Ultra 10's. They worked though and you could run a terminal off it and Mozilla from a remote 4P system =). In the end I ended up with an Ultra 1, even though it had half the processor speed, it also had 512MB memory and was actually faster than any Ultra 5 on site =).
Re:Again? by er · 2004-01-21 15:40 · Score: 1

Just an added note, the NBCS machine room (basement of Hill (if you know what that building is)) at Rutgers has at least a few dozen of them running various things and another dozen laying around. (I'm one of the system operators, I should know)

One has to remember, these are Sun machines not PC, they don't get throw out until they are very dead (unlike PCs which get chucked every year (since they are crap)).
Re:Again? by er · 2004-01-21 15:57 · Score: 1

Where were these labs? I work in the machine room in the basement and there doesn't seem to be any signs of former labs.
Re:Again? by TgBoat · 2004-01-22 00:43 · Score: 1

They were across the hall from the machine room. See this link

You can purchase an Ultra 5... by tcopeland · 2004-01-21 04:23 · Score: 5, Informative

...right here. They also have Ultra 60s, 80s, etc.

Re:You can purchase an Ultra 5... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:26 · Score: 1, Informative

Or you can get a better deal and do it eBay.
Re:You can purchase an Ultra 5... by AKnightCowboy · 2004-01-21 04:30 · Score: 0, Troll

Just beware that Ultra 5's and Ultra 10's have HORRIBLELY slow IDE buses (16 MB/sec or less). I don't believe they support DMA. You'd be better off getting a Sun Blade 100 or a used Ultra 10 with a SCSI card.
Re:You can purchase an Ultra 5... by pyr0 · 2004-01-21 04:34 · Score: 2, Informative

RTFA? The author says that the Ultra 5's are UDMA 33.

--
Project Steve
Re:You can purchase an Ultra 5... by AKnightCowboy · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

RTFA? The author says that the Ultra 5's are UDMA 33.
Go search for "sun ultra 5 udma" on Google Groups and read some of the usenet articles about pissed off users getting crappy performance if you don't believe me. I've got over a dozen Ultra 10's and one Ultra 5 (same thing as the Ultra 10 except it's a desktop case instead of a tower) and we've NEVER seen decent performance out of the disks. Just because Sun claims their controller chip is ultra-dma 33 doesn't mean their drivers actually take advantage of it.
The only udma 33 feature I've gotten out of them is supporting up to 112 gigs on a 120 gig ATA drive. This is all with Solaris obviously since you'd be insane to want to put Linux on these overpriced underperforming PC wannabes. The build quality on the cases reminds me of a cheap Taiwan import company. Remember though, this was their first take at the low-end cheap desktop computing market. We picked up our Ultra 10's for a very cheap $3600 each in 1999. They completely blew away the Ultra-2's we were previously buying for $16,000 each in terms of price/performance.
Re:You can purchase an Ultra 5... by Frederic54 · 2004-01-21 05:05 · Score: 1

I know in Canada you can buy Sun, HP, IBM, SGI, here http://unixhq.com but it's more expensive than what you posted

--
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Re:You can purchase an Ultra 5... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:20 · Score: 0

Yeah, mod the guy down for providing realworld disk numbers.

16MB/sec is not out-of-whack for 1998-era IDE controller, even on a normal wintel machine. Back then SCSI still unquestionably ruled the workstation market.

I have some of these in my garage! by amitti · 2004-01-21 04:23 · Score: 1

I have some Sun boxes in my garage, anyone know what an Ultra 1 Creator or Ultra 1 Enterprise is?

I planned on just throwing them on eBay, should I keep them?

Re:I have some of these in my garage! by multipartmixed · 2004-01-21 04:27 · Score: 2, Informative

Ultra 1s have the same motherboard as the Enterprise 150. IIRC, they are 170 MHz sun4u; SBUS, SCSI; hme on board, probably only one CPU slot.

Creator/Enterprise almost certainly indicates what video card shipped with it.

--

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:30 · Score: 0

Put it on eBay. I'd buy the Creator, it has the nice video card. No more than 100 or 150 as the asking price though, if they're in good complete condition.
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by larien · 2004-01-21 04:34 · Score: 3, Informative

Ultra 1s have one of 143, 167 or 200MHz CPUs. Older Ultra 1s (usually the 143MHz versions) have only le (10Mbit) ethernet and a 50 pin SCSI connecter. Newer versions have hme and 68 pin SCSI (not sure if the SCSI level is different). You can usually tell the version by the colour of the "1" on the front of the unit; if it's green, it's the older version with le/50pin SCSI, if it's red/orange, it's hme/68 pin. The latter usually comes with Creator graphics. There is also a 3rd version called "Ultra 1 Enterprise" which may not have a graphics board.
There isn't a CPU slot as such; the single CPU is hardwired to the motherboard.
Finally, the E150 is one of the worst bits of kit every shipped by Sun; the inside is mounted in foam blocks (!?!?!!) and if you shut it down (init 5) you can only switch it back on by either (a) opening the unit up or (b) attaching a Sun keyboard and using the 'power' button.
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by HardCase · 2004-01-21 05:41 · Score: 1

I planned on just throwing them on eBay, should I keep them?

Put them on Ebay. Depending upon the configuration, they sell for between $40 and $150. There's a pretty thriving market for them, even if the shipping runs to around $30. I have three Ultra 1's and two SS20's that run 'round the clock as an ftp server, mail server, domain server and web server, with all but one running Aurora Linux (the other runs Solaris 9). Even with a lot of traffic, they work just fine.

-h-
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by RevDobbs · 2004-01-21 06:09 · Score: 2, Funny

``A lot of traffic'', you say? Care to put them up to a good slashdotting? C'mon, post a URL, you know you want to...
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by HardCase · 2004-01-21 07:36 · Score: 1

``A lot of traffic'', you say? Care to put them up to a good slashdotting? C'mon, post a URL, you know you want to...

Are you nuts??? It can handle a lot of traffic, but not a deluge of biblical proportions! ;-)

-h-
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by MROD · 2004-01-21 08:28 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually, the two types of Ultra 1 were:-

Ultra 1 - SBus graphics, le 10Mb/s ethernet and 8bit SCSI. (As the PROM didn't say UPA bus at POST I'm not even sure if it had the full memory switch architecture.)

Ultra 1e - UPA bus Creator graphics, HappyMeal 100Mb/s ethernet and wide SCSI. During POST this machine stated UPA bus.

The 1e was only available in 170MHz versions whereas the 1 was originally available as a 150MHz version and then later 170MHz.

--

Agrajag: "Oh no, not again!"
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 09:30 · Score: 0

Ah the good old BreadBox as it was known internally.

On the upside those foam blocks meant that in the event of your server room getting flooded, recovering the hardware was a piece of cake as the E150 gently floated by ...
Re:I have some of these in my garage! by multipartmixed · 2004-01-21 11:39 · Score: 1

> if you shut it down (init 5) you can only switch it back on by either
> (a) opening the unit up or (b) attaching a Sun keyboard and using the 'power' button.

Tell me about it.

The first time that happened, I called a Sun SE... who proceeded to hardware troubleshoot it as a fault in the motherboard. It was only AFTER he got the FRU in that he realized what the problem was.

The second time, I had to drive 135 miles (each way) to plug in a keyboard and push the button.

I was glad to get rid of those awful things.. though I must say, I bet they could take a two-storey fall without missing a beat. Built like tanks, they were, the two layers of steel case almost make the E450 look wimpy in contrast (what with the plastic case and only half the foam).

Oddly enough, we had to use those wretched boxes because the customer *insisted* on them (we'd specified SparcStation 5s). Their high-paid monkeys wouldn't allow anything in the DataCenter without the word "Enterprise" in the name. You should have seen how mad they got when one of their precious Ultra Enterprise 2s arrived with Creator 3D badges on them instead. I thought they were going to sue the vendor!

--

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

Monitors on Sparc5 by multipartmixed · 2004-01-21 04:24 · Score: 5, Informative

Note: The article says "just about any" standard monitor with an HD15 will work -- not so. At least on the earlier Ultra 5s, you had to be somewhat choosy with your monitor.

From personal experience;

Doesn't work:
MAG DJ530
IBM G70

Does work:
Panasonic SL70i
Panasonic E70i
Panasonic S70
Sun monitors (duh)
Sony 15", 17" (can't remember model numbers).

Symptom: No display with incompatible monitor, regardless of m64 settings.

Lesson: Try the monitor with the box before you buy it.

--

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by OSSMKitty · 2004-01-21 04:35 · Score: 3, Informative

I seem to remember that Sun systems required monitors that could handle sync-on-green (much like NeXT workstations, and probably others). My multi-scan Dell monitor will work on a Sun, but my LCD won't.
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 04:51 · Score: 1

I think your problem is resolution. I hooked my first Ultra 5 up to a cheapo ViewSonic monitor and (predictably) it didn't work. After learning about Stop+A, I booted into single user and changed the default resolution from 1600x1200 to a more reasonable 1024x768. I then rebooted and no longer had any problems.

*sniff* I miss that Ultra 5. My current Ultra 10 has more power but much poorer video support.

--
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by ch-chuck · 2004-01-21 05:02 · Score: 1

Close - (I just tackled this issue w/ a personal ss5) - SGI uses sync-on-green. Sun's use COMPOSITE sync (H and V in one wire) whereas PC's use SEPARATE sync (an H wire and a V sync wire). My KDS monitor wouldn't work on the ss5 with one of those 13w3-to-hd15 adapters. Solution was to buy a ViewSonic p95f - look at the specs, input signal supports HV separated, COMPOSITE (sun) and sync-on-green (SGI).

--
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:02 · Score: 2, Informative

Another very important thing to note. "13W3" isn't really a very standardized form of plug (beyond the "3" mini-coax connectors). I've seen 13W3 used in workstations by Sun, SGI, and IBM, and the pin-outs of the 13 normal pins are all just a tad different. Keep this in mind when you need to buy an adaptor for a system.
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

That makes little sense, unless you didn't install a good framebuffer (graphics card) in the U10. The U5 only works with on-board or PCI framebuffers, while the U10 can take a UPA framebuffer (faster slot, think of it as "like" AGP for UltraSPARC). Of course the U5 and U10 technically use the same exact motherboard (with different PCI riser cards), but the U5's case isn't designed to let you install a UPA card.
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 06:09 · Score: 1

Different models. My Ultra 10 is of an older design than the line that my Ultra 5 was from. Thus my Ultra 5 had a PGX24 (I think) while my Ultra 10 has a PGX8.

Choosing between 800x600 with 24 bit color or 1024x768 with 8 bit color sucks. On the bright side, it does its job as a server quite well.

--
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:25 · Score: 1

Right now the Elite3D m3 UPA framebuffer is beyond dirt-cheap on eBay (and the Creator3D isn't too shabby either). Upgrade :-)
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by drinkypoo · 2004-01-21 06:37 · Score: 1

It depends on the vintage of sparc, which framebuffer you have, and what cable you have. I used to have a 4/260 with a 20" Sony monitor, one of the ones with a big fat rocker switch on the front for power. My cable was 13W3 to 5 BNC, with separate sync.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 07:08 · Score: 1

I've been considering, but since the machine acts as the backend database and J2EE server for a recipes database I developed for my wife, I'm a bit hesitant to go monkeying around with the hardware.

--
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 07:41 · Score: 0

Can't all Suns use a serial console instead?

I want to buy a used Ultra in order to test out a program I'm writing on a 64 bit platform. I don't need a local X server or anything. I'd greatly prefer not to need a KVM for the sun at all and just do everything via the serial console or network login.
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 09:29 · Score: 1

All right, it's official. You suck. "Proxima"? An Ultra 60 with 1024 megs of RAM? And Creator 3D graphics no less? GRRRR....

--
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Glonoinha · 2004-01-21 09:50 · Score: 1

Glonoinha's Rule #1 of production systen hardware : if it works, don't fsck with it.

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Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Octorian · 2004-01-21 10:53 · Score: 1

Here's the sad part about Sun framebuffers... I've got some SunRay units plugged into it, and guess what? When "scrolling in a web browser", and doing some other standard 2D GUI tasks, the SunRay is MUCH faster than the local framebuffer. (of course for video, or anything less "acceleratable", the reverse is true).
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by AngryRodent · 2004-01-21 12:33 · Score: 1

Yep. They do. BTW, I Picked up an Ultra-2 for something like $20 a while back. Not hard to do on E-bay.
Re:Monitors on Sparc5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 14:39 · Score: 0

Adding to your list:

Works: MAG DX700T

Sitting on my desk now.

Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:24 · Score: 5, Informative

It's not a SPARC 5, it's an Ultra 5. The former implies 32-bit, the latter 64. Not that anyone here knows or cares.

Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:28 · Score: 0

I know, and the first thing I thought was "they surely mean Ultra 5." I even cared enough to mail daddypants before the story went live but did they fix it? Of course not.

So there.
Re:Correction by ShaggyZet · 2004-01-21 04:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

Sing it brother! As the proud owner of a sparc 2 (no, not an ultra 2) and a user of many sparc 5's and 20's I can say they are fine machines, even if they do run like molasses (ok, a faster 20 isn't *that* slow). The Ultra 5's and 10's are pieces of crap in comparison.
Re:Correction by sirket · 2004-01-21 04:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm glad someone pointed this out. And as for nostalgic? WTF did an ultra 5 become nostalgic?

-sirket
Re:Correction by the+packrat · 2004-01-21 04:33 · Score: 1

And as for nostalgic? WTF did an ultra 5 become nostalgic?

What you're forgetting here is that this is now a world filled with PC-using linux weenies who consider any computer older than about 3 months to be worthless trash. Presumably a few of them will pass through this phase and learn about the increasingly small number of sensible machines which still stack up well after half a decade or more.

--

--
Nihil Illegitemi Carborvndvm
Re:Correction by sysadmn · 2004-01-21 04:36 · Score: 3, Funny

If you keep spreading facts on Slashdot we'll have to throw you out.
Let's get back to the mindless bashing and opinions presented as Gospel.

--
Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

I don't see what the big deal about this article is.

I =work= for Sun as a developer and my machine is an Ultra 5. There are a few other software developers here running Ultra 10s and one or two with an Ultra 60, but the majority of us are using Ultra 5s and 10s.
Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yeah, I laughed my ass off when I read the article. Sparc5 != Ultra 5.
Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:10 · Score: 0

Actually, a '20 with quad ross hypersparcs and a bit of ram can be an exhilirating experience.. much like a shorn scrotum!
Re:Correction by morgue-ann · 2004-01-21 05:20 · Score: 2, Funny

Where's the item in the moderate listbox for "insightful flamebait"?
Re:Correction by Mr.+Frilly · 2004-01-21 05:22 · Score: 1

Yeah, and the ultra 5 isn't one of them.

The ultra 5 is really just a PC with an ultrasparc processor. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but an Ultra 5 is about as nostalgic as a Dell with a 500 MHz Pentium II.
Re:Correction by GreyPoopon · 2004-01-21 05:57 · Score: 1

What you're forgetting here is that this is now a world filled with PC-using linux weenies who consider any computer older than about 3 months to be worthless trash.
Hunh? Where do you get that idea? Sure, any serious gamer considers PC's older than about 2 seconds to be out of date, but most of the Linux crowd that I'm aware of rejoices in the ability to run Linux (in some form) on systems more than ten years old. I think you probably meant the PC-using Windows weenies who just accept the fact that the minimum requirements seem to quadruple (ok, a little exaggerated) with each new release. (No disprespect intended to Windows users -- just Windows weenies :-) )

--
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Re:Correction by vranash · 2004-01-21 06:04 · Score: 1

I'm still trying to find a pair of those dual ross hypersparc cards, and an 8meg vsimm that aren't going to cost me as much as a dual opteron motherboard.. or that gig of pc3200 ddr I need to play SWG :) -- vranash
Re:Correction by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:09 · Score: 1

Though I wonder if the Sun Blade 100/150 is more of a PC than the Ultra 5, even if less of a sucky PC. The U5/U10 had a UPA slot for the framebuffer (though only usable in the U10 case), and I think they used proprietary memory.
Re:Correction by operagost · 2004-01-21 06:23 · Score: 1

"Interesting."

--

Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Re:Correction by Transfan76 · 2004-01-21 06:30 · Score: 1

I work for Sun also, but I don't use the crappy Ultra 5 they sat on my desk. I also have a Sparc 5 to the right of me that I don't use. Instead I bring in my Apple G4 laptop each day. I find I'm more productive with using my G4 then using the Sun Desktops.
Re:Correction by starm_ · 2004-01-21 06:30 · Score: 1

Its an ok computer but not much speed. I dunno why this is making Slashdot headlines. Two years ago I used to work on a dual 900 MHz Sun Blade. Now that was fast. Although You had to spend more then 10k to get one.
Re:Correction by Bingo+Foo · 2004-01-21 07:05 · Score: 1

You forgot the Edelbrock intake and dual Holley four barrel carbs.

--
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Re:Correction by funaho · 2004-01-21 07:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

I was wondering when someone would notice that.

A regular Sparc 5 definitely *is* nostalgic. I have several old Sun machines at the house including a Sparc 5, Sparc 20 and an IPX (talk about nostalgia...those IPCs and IPXs are so cute :) )

I have a few old Ultras here at work (Ultra 1s mostly) and I do have Debian on them. Worst install I've ever done...the Sparc installer for Debian is *horrible*. And yes, I know it's beta at best, but still.
Re:Correction by b1t+r0t · 2004-01-21 07:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

They used some sort of 5V DIMM memory. Ultra 5 memory is plug-compatible with the RAM used by old PowerMacs, but simply doesn't work in a PowerMac. I know because I bought some once, and ended up selling it for the same price to a hardcore Sun fan I knew.
Really, any 5V DIMM can be considered "proprietary memory", since the PC market didn't start using it until 3.3V RAM became the standard.

--

--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 07:50 · Score: 0

If you are a developer, is it because you prefer the development environment of Apple?
Re:Correction by Brandybuck · 2004-01-21 08:17 · Score: 1

Absolutely! We have dozens of old Sparc 5's at work, left over from an upgrade to Ultra 10's. There's nothing wrong with them, the work fine. Very well built machines. We've been giving them away to employees, and many have taken them up on the offer.

They've been going for about $20 in the used equipment shops. Well worth it if you want a reliable, solid and quiet home gateway/firewall.

--
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!

64 bits? by bennomatic · 2004-01-21 04:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Back in my day, we had eight bits, and we liked it!

--
The CB App. What's your 20?

Re:64 bits? by sreid · 2004-01-21 04:36 · Score: 1

lemon64.com
great t-shirt
Re:64 bits? by Stween · 2004-01-21 05:07 · Score: 1

Ok, you have the t-shirt, I'll have the girl in it.

Sound fair? Good.

Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Stonent1 · 2004-01-21 04:26 · Score: 3, Informative

When you say "Sparc 5" most people assume you mean "SparcStation 5"

Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by sql*kitten · 2004-01-21 04:46 · Score: 4, Informative

When you say "Sparc 5" most people assume you mean "SparcStation 5"

To the average OSNews reader (and indeed to Eugenia herself) a late-90s Ultra 5 is an ancient computer. Such people would have absolutely no use for a SPARCStation, since (if you read any of her OS reviews) the only thing they're interested in is eye candy.

Me, I have a old NeXT Color Turbo, that's a 33 Mhz 68040, 32M RAM box running a BSD derivative, that is still as useful a machine as it ever was - the real business of programming, editing text files, hasn't changed much in 30-odd years. Only the kids who judge a box by what window manager or web browser it's running think any different.

The thing these kids don't understand is that back in the day, kit was built to last. Old SPARCStation 5's are dead reliable, and if you want a DNS, mail, a web server, a CVS server, whatever, they're perfect for the task. And you can get a lot done with a box like a 10 or a 20, they'll happily support 20 users running terminals, editors, compilers, etc etc. Only thing that's slow is their frame buffers. Buy a modern PC and it's useless in 3 years, it was never made to last.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by nelsonal · 2004-01-21 04:47 · Score: 1

I don't think the average /.er has heard of or seen a real Sparc 5.

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Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 04:55 · Score: 1

Only thing that's slow is their frame buffers.

Who needs a frame buffer? Sparc console mode has *got* to be the prettiest thing I've ever seen on any machine. Who wants white text on black with 8x8 fonts? I'd rather have black on white with anti-aliased fonts. It's so nice, it's almost a shame to remotely administrate the system.

--
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Otter · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 1

Actually, I was just looking at one on EBay. It's currently sitting at $2 with 2 hours left -- if you buy it and install an OS you can get featured on Slashdot.

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What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by kf8vn · 2004-01-21 05:06 · Score: 1

I am still running my corporate intranet web server on an old SPARCStation 5 I dug out of the sys admin's scrap pile 7 years ago. Reliable... you bet.. the only time it boots is when we have a power failure.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by ncc74656 · 2004-01-21 05:07 · Score: 1

When you say "Sparc 5" most people assume you mean "SparcStation 5"

Considering that you're dealing with the same people who took "PS/2" and dropped the slash from it to use as a shorthand label for some gaming toy, is it at all surprising that the editors/author would get Sun's nomenclature mixed up?

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20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by petabyte · 2004-01-21 05:08 · Score: 1

Bah, I just got rid of my SparcStation 2. It was the DNS server here for quite some time. I love the pizza boxes :)
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by j-turkey · 2004-01-21 05:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

The thing these kids don't understand is that back in the day, kit was built to last. Old SPARCStation 5's are dead reliable, and if you want a DNS, mail, a web server, a CVS server, whatever, they're perfect for the task. And you can get a lot done with a box like a 10 or a 20, they'll happily support 20 users running terminals, editors, compilers, etc etc. Only thing that's slow is their frame buffers. Buy a modern PC and it's useless in 3 years, it was never made to last.

Those old Sparc5's (or any other cool, old boxes)were cool and all, and I don't mean to be argumentative, but let's be realistic. If you want to run a small to midsized DNS, mail, web, or CVS server, a Sparc5 can handle it very well. Furthermore, the hardware in those boxes is built to a higher standard than most commodity PC hardware....and there will always be significant numbers of geeks out there running small-time Linux servers on old hardware, from commodity PC hardware to old servers. Sure a modern PC is useless for PC-ish stuff within three years (ie running the latest bleeding-edge desktop OS, etc), however, for those same tasks, outdated hardware can be just as well suited to the task.

My point is that anyone who "gets it" (in this sense), will just get it -- those who don't never will. They use their computers for completely different reasons than you and have completely different requirements than you and I. Much of the obselescence of the desktop PC within three years comes from software abstraction keeping pace with faster hardware. Servers don't necessarily have the same fate. It's hard to make a comparison in that sense...especially for people like you who probably know their shit well enough to consider the aforementioned abstraction more of a hinderance than a help. In the mean time, enjoy the pace at which hardware gets faster and cheaper :)

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-Turkey
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by __past__ · 2004-01-21 05:21 · Score: 1

I have to disagree. The most beautiful text interface I have ever seen is the one of my RS/6000 7012, with a really pretty green-on-black font. The console interfaces of my Suns are better than the ugly PC crap, but don't come close.
I have to admit that not much else about it would qualify as "pretty", though.

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Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Jim_Maryland · 2004-01-21 05:35 · Score: 1

I can remember messing with a Sun IPX box when our companies latest and greatest was the SunSPARC 20. I guess maybe being in my 30's and recalling back to this makes me a fairly old poster here.

The Sun Ultra10 with an A1000 was my first exposure to the Sun Ultra's. We actually replaced the functionality of a Sun 100E with a couple of huge array boxes (these things were about the size of a 280R, but only held about 30GB of disk space). The Ultra's, at the time, were a great way to obtain a cheap stable platform.

Although many people "trash" talk the Sun product line (and I'll definitely complain about price), the products are generally solid and perform quite well. My group often works with mixed platform environments, and we find that even though the cost for Sun's is higher than say a Dell PowerEdge. The return is much better for the Sun.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by nelsonal · 2004-01-21 05:40 · Score: 1

That's amazing, I remember just before I graduated from college (it was only 3 years ago) I was shopping around for an SPARCStation and these were in the $100-$200 range, and 10s and 20s were in the $150 and up range depending on ram and processors installed. I ended up getting an HP 735, a little different, but pretty cool. Those old workstations were built like tanks.

--
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by keesh · 2004-01-21 05:56 · Score: 1

Nope. The Sparc 5 doesn't have a framebuffer card, the SparcStation 5 does. Although, you could of course *put* a framebuffer in a Sparc 5.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:12 · Score: 1

That *IS* the framebuffer you're talking about. However, text on the framebuffer console is drawn with Forth code from the OpenBoot PROM, and is slow. For the framebuffer console on a Sun to really be snappy, you need to be on a fast machine.

The interesting thing, however, is that modern Macs use OpenBoot as well. If you ever get the chance, try booting OpenBSD or NetBSD on a modern Mac. The console looks EXACTLY like on a Sun ;) (same font and everything)
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 06:20 · Score: 1

The interesting thing, however, is that modern Macs use OpenBoot as well.

I knew that Apple licensed it from Sun, but why doesn't Darwin use the same fonts? If you log into an OS X machine with username ">console" and no password you'll get a standard (read: ugly) white on black shell prompt. Perhaps there's some way to change this?

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Stardate · 2004-01-21 06:22 · Score: 1

Pretty, but godawful slow. A big 'ls' in 24-bit anti-aliased xterm would be faster than the same command in console mode! But it is pretty. :)

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"... I declare our city to be a free and independent state to be named Tri-Insula!" --Fernando Wood, Mayor of NYC 1861
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:28 · Score: 1

I dunno, but there must be a way. When the NetBSD or OpenBSD kernels boot, they do change the font to look exactly like on a Sun machine.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by javiercero · 2004-01-21 06:42 · Score: 1

Actually openboot is a standard developed by a 3rd party, both SUN and Apple (And maybe others) actually licensed it, not from SUN themselves.

Minor nitpick I know.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 06:58 · Score: 1

No, OpenBoot is Sun's proprietary version that they licensed to Apple. OpenFirmware is the open standard upon which just about every non-pc computer uses for firmware.

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 07:05 · Score: 1

I just got into the OpenBoot PROM (hold down Apple+Option+o+f as you turn the machine on; the o+f stands for "open firmware", get it?) and it still doesn't look right. I have a tiny black font on a grey background. Not to mention that the firmware is just about as non-friendly as it gets:

> help help on not found
> ?
Illegal memory access
(gives some debug info)
> boot -s

(At this point I get an empty grey screen with a crossed through circle in the middle. Must have caused some sort of error.)

In comparison, my Ultra 10 boots up into a nice pure white with large, easy to read fonts. Stop+A gets me into OpenBOOT where "help" or "?" gives me a very nice list of possible instructions. Perhaps you're misremembering the Sun text mode? The black on grey fonts are better than PC style, but a far cry from Sun's beautiful anti-aliased text mode.

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by GreenHell · 2004-01-21 07:05 · Score: 1

I've got a SS20 sitting in a closet running my webserver.

Got it off of the government at one of their surplus equipment sales. There were tons of 10s, 5s, and 4s there when I got it but I decided I'd rather have the 20. (Especially seeing as, IIRC, the 10 was just the 20 with wa lower max bus speed (40MHz instead of 50), the 5 was just the 20 without MBUS support, and the 4 was a cheap version of the 5 with something else removed...)

Total cost? Probably about $60 Canadian after I got my hands on more RAM, a hard drive, and an adapter to use a VGA monitor.

Actualy, I've also got a SS10 I now need to get rid of. eBay here I come!

--
"I won't mod you down - I feel the need to call you a twit explicitly, rather than by implication."
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 07:16 · Score: 1

Pretty, but godawful slow.

Tis true. Although it reminds me a lot of working with older machines where the text didn't blow by so fast that you couldn't even scroll lock it. I always assumed that Sun had slowed the console down on purpose. :-)

But it is pretty. :)

Isn't it? Last time I was working on developing an Operating System for fun (Intel GDT/LDT/IDTs SUCK), I spent a lot of time trying to get the text mode to start in that nice pure white with black text. I figured out that while there was pure white text, there were no pure white background colors. The only way I was going to get what I wanted was to use the protected mode VESA hooks. Of course, that sucks almost as much as Intel's real mode -> protected mode jump.

Maybe someday I'll modify FreeBSD to do what I want. :-)

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by spir0 · 2004-01-21 07:42 · Score: 1

The thing these kids don't understand is that back in the day, kit was built to last. Old SPARCStation 5's are dead reliable
hallelujah. I thought that this article was talking about sparc 5's and I thought to myself: "bugger, we're still running those in a commercial environment." Then I saw they were talking about ULTRA 5's and I thought: "shit, those are the best workstations we have here at work..."
People who think Ultra 5's are archaic beasts aren't geeks. they're n00bs. their opinion is worthless.

--
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
Re:Not Sparc 5...Ultra 5! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 09:44 · Score: 0

People who think Ultra 5's are archaic beasts aren't geeks. they're n00bs. their opinion is worthless.
I've been working with computers for 20 years. An Ultra 5 is a piece of shit. It was a piece of shit the day it was released. Cheap shit hardware coupled to the cheap shit version of the UltraSPARC II. I'm not a n00b by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just not willing to go along with the Slashdot religion that states that any piece of computing equipment, no matter how slow, historically irrelevant or shoddily built, is infinitely superior to any x86 piece of kit no matter what. Fuck that. Any serious IT professional wouldn't have touched an Ultra 5 with a 10-foot pole on the day it was released, and the same goes double now. So take this worthless opinion and shove it up your ass, n00b.

hrm by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:27 · Score: 0

does it also mention you can get better performance from a 386?

It would have to run Solaris by Xpilot · 2004-01-21 04:27 · Score: 0

..when I'd much prefer Linux. Though I won't get "64-bit computing" with Linux on sparc64, since the userland is only 32-bit. Unfortunately, no one cares enough to fix the situation.

--
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds

Re:It would have to run Solaris by AKnightCowboy · 2004-01-21 04:37 · Score: 1

..when I'd much prefer Linux. Though I won't get "64-bit computing" with Linux on sparc64, since the userland is only 32-bit. Unfortunately, no one cares enough to fix the situation.
Well, probably because 95% of the people using Linux just use an x86 box. An old Pentium II will run circles around most Sun boxes you could buy under $500 and you can pick the PII out of the trash. Don't get me wrong, I love my dual 75MHz Sparc-20 at home, but it is by no means comparable to any of my x86 boxes in terms of speed. It may be faster than my old 90MHz Pentium though.
Re:It would have to run Solaris by OutlawDrake · 2004-01-21 04:40 · Score: 4, Informative

Unfortunately, you don't care enough to understand the situation. There's nothing to fix. 64-bit userland would only benefit a very very few apps (that needed more than 4GB of RAM), and would significantly slow down the rest of them. (I was actively subscribed to the debian-sparc mailing list for several years. Do some research, and talk to the sparc linux maintainers.)

I expect that this will come out in one of the promised followup articles on OSNews.
Re:It would have to run Solaris by fdragon · 2004-01-21 04:43 · Score: 4, Informative

UltraSparc has a 64bit userland if you care to compile it. Currently the only distribution that I know of that provides one is the Aurora Linux distribution that is based off of RedHat 7.3. More information about the project is Here at the Aurora Linux website .

Currently its 64bit userland is limited to the C library and a few support libraries. This allows you to compile applications in 64bit mode so that they can gain the benifits of 64bit mode.

Most cases using 64bit applications cause the machine to be slower due to the doubling in the length of the addressing pointers and other factors. Better explination is available in their FAQ entry on this 64bit vs 32bit issue .

--
The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead.
Re:It would have to run Solaris by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 05:11 · Score: 1

An old Pentium II will run circles around most Sun boxes you could buy under $500 and you can pick the PII out of the trash.

Bull. I had my first Ultra 5 when PIIs were shiny and new. At that time not a single PII could keep up with my Ultra 5. I had StarOffice, Netscape, Furi, GCC, etc. all running or loading simultaneously. The PCs would usually crap out after only a couple of those programs. My Ultra 5 just kept chugging. Sure, every program would make the next one take that much longer to load, but the system stayed responsive no matter what the load. THAT is the kind of engineering I have NEVER seen in the PC world.

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:It would have to run Solaris by Gothmolly · 2004-01-21 05:14 · Score: 1

Except that this has NOTHING to do with the 'engineering' of PCs, but rather the OS running on them. Ever take your U5 apart? It looks like ... a PC inside! Same crappy IDE disk, same crappy video. It's a Known Fact (TM) that on that level of hardware, Linux spanks Solaris. Win95 may have crapped out when you put it up against Solaris 8, but again, that's the OS talking, not the hardware.

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I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Re:It would have to run Solaris by __past__ · 2004-01-21 05:28 · Score: 1

$ file /bin/ls /bin/ls: ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1, dynamically linked, stripped $ uname -sr SunOS 5.9
Most userland apps in Solaris are usually used in their 32bit variants, for good reasons. You don't really need most things to be 64bit (although 64bit versions are available, like /bin/sparcv9/ls).

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Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Re:It would have to run Solaris by AKAImBatman · 2004-01-21 05:38 · Score: 1

It's a Known Fact (TM) that on that level of hardware, Linux spanks Solaris.

You may want to recheck your "known facts". About that time, Linux was crapping out on running Netscape. Sure, "modern" Linux may do better, but if we're talking about the actual time period, Linux was a very poor performer compared to Solaris.

It's also not ALL PC hardware. For example, the UltraSparc processors assist in the multitasking power of these machines. Can anyone say "superscalar done right"? Intel superscalar designs were a joke. Other hardware and ROMS have been similarly configured for better multiprocess performance.

Of course, it's a bit frustrating when even a modern Windows or Linux machine hangs while loading a large program or doing some other system intensive task. FreeBSD 4.x is pretty good about this, but 5.x brought in the Linuxish hangs.

BTW, I forgot to mention that PIIs of the time would outperform Ultras on one point: Games. The Intel architecture is designed around single threaded speed. The Sun architectures are designed around scaling up to as many threads/processes as possible. As a serious workstation Suns win. As a gaming machine PCs win.

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Re:It would have to run Solaris by cayenne8 · 2004-01-21 05:56 · Score: 1

Could you clarify this a bit to a noob? I'm looking at playing with one of these Ultra5's. I'm looking to put the Gentoo Sparc distro on it...it has choices for 32 or 64 bit OS.
Now, since everything is compiled from source on Gentoo...would not all the apps I put on it be 64bit apps then or does an application have to be specially written to be compiled as a 64 bit app?

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:It would have to run Solaris by fdragon · 2004-01-21 08:24 · Score: 1

As I am not a Gentoo user I won't be able to give you the Gentoo way. I can give you the way I do things in my DIY linux disro called Fire Dragon Linux . Probably should be called GNU/Linux but I don't think its high on the important list right now.

Basically I treat the Ultra 5 as if it where a SparcStation era Sun. This means that everythign is compiled for the Sparc V7 CPU (V7 is the least common denominator Sparc 32bit CPU, V8 is more common and includes a few functions more, and V9 is the Sparc64 or UltraSparc CPU line).

As I have 2 SparcStation 2 computers and 2 Ultra 5 computers I try to keep things running on both. The SS2 is a sun4c machine (SS5, SS20, and so forth are all sun4m machines), and Ultra 5 is sun4u machines. Sun3 machines exist and are m68K CPU. Linux doesn't support those well, NetBSD works on them.

In the case of applications like OpenSSL which benifit from instructions available in later Sparc V8 and V9 CPU I compile multiple versions (one for each CPU) and install the one that matches the CPU I have. Sparc for the V7, SparcV8 for the V8, and SparcV9 for the UltraSparc.

Kernel compiles on the UltraSparc require a special Binutils and GCC. Binutils should be compiled with --target=sparc-linux --enable-targets=sparc64-linux. Once installed, you need to go to the ${PREFIX}/bin directory and symlink sparc64-linux-* to the sparc-linux-* commands it installed (as, ld, nm, and so forth).

GCC is tricky on sparc64 as it requires usage of EGCS64 for the compiler (Yes, this compiler is from 1999). Debian is a good source of this package. GCC 3.2.x and 3.3.x can currently compile a sparc64 kernel but may generate invalid code from time to time.

GCC can be done with --target=sparc64-linux --with-cpu=v7 and then doing some symlinks I am told. I currently don't know as I have not gotten this part to work yet for me.

To close this I would highly recomend using Aurora Linux on a Sun machine right now unless you want to get into fixing the compiler tool chain and the C library on the platform. ROCK Linux in the latest version appears to have working support for generating a 32bit and 64bit userland. You may find things work there if they do not with Gentoo.

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The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead.

Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by the+packrat · 2004-01-21 04:28 · Score: 5, Informative

For those people who aren't old enough to know there is a difference, the Sparc 5 was the baby brother of Sun's Sparc 20, and was a sun4m machine. The Ultra 5 discussed in the article was a much later beast, with a sun4u architecture, and crippled horribly with various PC-isms including IDE and sharp case edges.

As far as their being useless, I bought one just recently for one of my students to use as a workstation to work on visualising the results of the modelling work that will be done in the coming year. For next to no money you can pick up a decent workstation that runs Solaris, often with a fantastic monitor. Outdated, Ha!

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Nihil Illegitemi Carborvndvm

Re:Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by Monkelectric · 2004-01-21 05:02 · Score: 1

I ran a whole labratory (50+ machines) off a dual Ultra2 and a A1000 for 2.5 years... Going to have to agree that an ultra5 is quite lot of horsepower :)

--
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Re:Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by wilper · 2004-01-21 05:50 · Score: 1

Yupp. Sparcstation 5 (and 4 for that part), are really nice machines. I got one half a year ago and use it as webserver, quiet, stable and it runs Debian, what more could a man ask for? :-)

Minor setback is that they use SCSI-drives with SCA connectors, which are usually used in raid-setups, and carry a matching price.
Re:Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by drinkypoo · 2004-01-21 06:40 · Score: 1

Weren't Ultra 5s available with SCSI as an option? True it's on the PCI bus but SBUS hasn't been a going concern since before PCI became the de facto bus of choice and PCI can't possibly be any slower than SBUS, can it? The cheap PC-style case is a drag though, I consider the Ultra 5 to be the beginning of the end for Sun. It's not the ultra 5's fault, but there you have it.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by spir0 · 2004-01-21 07:46 · Score: 1

you want sharp edges? ultra 5's aren't sharp... I used to build machines when I finished school (many years ago...) and we got cases from Edge Computer.. a real dodgy company if ever I saw one... The insides of their cases were so sharp, myself and the other techs regularly sliced ourselves open.

In fact, I made our unofficial motto at work: "A piece of us goes out with every machine."

the insides of Ultra 5's are blunt as hell compared to those...

--
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
Re:Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by tbuskey · 2004-01-21 08:43 · Score: 1

Sun switched to PCI because it was faster then SBUS (in the config sun uses).

The last time I had a Sun as a desktop was 2 years ago. I would have gladly traded it for a 700MHz PC running linux. Easier maintenance of the OS, more stuff available w/o recompiling & possibly porting.

For a server, I like the Sun just fine though.
Re:Sparc 5 isn't an Ultra 5 by DrDebug · 2004-01-21 14:26 · Score: 1

If you really, really dig deep, and look at the design specs of both the PCI bus and SBUS, you will find a lot of similarities. The SBUS did preceed the PCI bus by about a year.

A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by maynard · 2004-01-21 04:29 · Score: 4, Informative

The article is about an Ultra 5 being resurrected, not a traditional sparc 5. Just so we're clear, the sparc 5 was among the Sun 4m CPU class while the Ultra 5 was a Sun 4u class CPU. The Sparc 5 is a 32 bit arch while the Ultra 5 is 64 bit. The Sparc 5 uses SBUS expansion cards, MBUS CPU expansion bay, has onboard 10mbit ethernet, standard SCSI II support, and usually shipped with a CG6 8 bit color card (not always). The Ultra 5 has a built in Sun IIi CPU, 100Mbit ethernet, PCI bus support, and IDE instead of SCSI disks. It also has an onboard 8bit ATI graphics adapter.

If given the choice I would take the Sparc 5 simply for it's greater I/O bandwidth alone. Actually, give me an Ultra 1 or 2, or a Sparc 20. Frankly, the Ultra 5 was a hunk of junk even on release. I wouldn't pay a dime for one of those. JMO. --M

Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by sirket · 2004-01-21 04:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Since when did the SS5 have an mbus slot? The SS10 and SS20 both used mbus modules. The SS5 had a built in processor.

-sirket
Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by forged · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 1

Frankly, the Ultra 5 was a hunk of junk even on release.
Aha, you must be one of these Sun sysadmin elite described in the article...:) Choice quotes below:
As a result, the Ultra 5 was the target of much derision by more refined Sun system admins. "IDE? Well I never!"
Despite increasingly clever derogatory puns (such as "hung like an IDE bus untarring a file") by the Sun sysadmin elite, the Ultra 5 was a huge success.
Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by bodgit · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 1

If given the choice I would take the Sparc 5 simply for it's greater I/O bandwidth alone. Actually, give me an Ultra 1 or 2, or a Sparc 20. Frankly, the Ultra 5 was a hunk of junk even on release. I wouldn't pay a dime for one of those.

Actually, I wouldn't say the Sparc 5 has got greater I/O, disk anyway. Despite the 16-bit SCA bays for the internal disks, the SCSI bus is still narrow. The internal disks on my Sparc 20 suck, but the stuff hanging off the SunSwift card are not quite as bad, and they're pretty much identical models throughout the whole system.
Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by Orion442 · 2004-01-21 05:32 · Score: 1

Something tells me you own every Star Trek episode ever made on DVD & Beta.
Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by Kirth · 2004-01-21 05:42 · Score: 1

350 Mhz are not enough to play a movie? Well yes, in my Ultra 5. Besides that the IDE controller is one of those infamous "CMD640 chipset bugfix/support" ones.
--

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"The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 07:56 · Score: 0

Try cp'ing a huge file from one partition to the next on your SS5, then try the same file from one partition to the next on your Ultra 5. Watch the SS5 breeze through it with plenty of I/O and CPU to spare while the Ultra 5 is brought to its knees. Use time to see just how slow the IDE chipset on the Ultra 5 really is. The Ultra 5 was a hunk of junk, especially compared to the Ultra 1 - which IMO is still quite a usable computer. Hell, an SS20 with a decent CPU module or two is still a good desktop, and as others have pointed out the SS5 is still a usable workhorse for various small server tasks. --M
Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 by Cheetahfeathers · 2004-01-21 08:43 · Score: 1

As someone who had to fix those U5s/U10s, I can say that the IDE controllers on those boxes are POSes. They would often fail randomly, failing to recognise the default cable select for IDE master/slave mode, so you would have to manually do it. Then that would fail and you would have to go back to cable select. Then anything would fail and drives would drop out, then on reboot they would be back.

The U5 makes IDE look bad, and that's saying something!

Not to mention that the case is some of the worst design ever. Getting in there to replace a CPU is horrible. Or the motherboard... *shudder*.

Also, the U5/U10 have funky power supply issues. You have to be careful to sync up the right model of PSU, momboard and CPU.

The Ultra 2 is the last great workstation that Sun has done (counting newer Sunblades). U1 sucked, however. They used a sh*t fan on the CPU. The newer ones with the huge heatsink instead are ok.

I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by vrai · 2004-01-21 04:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

I still use my Ultra 5 (the 360Mhz model) as my second desktop machine. Runs Solaris 9, blackbox and an assortment of KDE apps (mostly KMail and Konqueror). It's a bit slow but does the job, plus there are few keyboards that beat the Type 5c. Sadly it will be retired from desktop duty this year but will live on as my home webserver.

My SparcStation 5 (with a mighty 110Mhz microSparc) holds my CVS repository and my MP3s (via NFS and Samba). In order to save money the larger of its two drives (a 36Gb IBM) is a 50pin one that I've duck taped in to the CD bay. Some what dodgy, but I haven't had any problems with it in three years of use. This one runs and old version of Debian (2.2.20) but is safely hidden behind my firewall.

Whilst I could obviously get more powerful machines they do the job, are rock solid (both in hardware and software terms), and cost a total of 140GBP for the two of them. Plus they look a damn site nicer than boring old wintel box.

Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by DAldredge · 2004-01-21 04:57 · Score: 0

DUCT tape! Not Duck tape! It doesn't quack! That is unless you got Duck tape brand Duct tape. (Wish I was joking)
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:12 · Score: 1, Informative

Both are valid names ... http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/duckvsduct. html.
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Tackhead · 2004-01-21 05:38 · Score: 1

> I still use my Ultra 5 (the 360Mhz model) as my second desktop machine. Runs Solaris 9, blackbox and an assortment of KDE apps (mostly KMail and Konqueror). It's a bit slow but does the job, plus there are few keyboards that beat the Type 5c.
I got an Ultra 5 without a Type 5c. I went to a surplus store and bought a Type 5c for $5.00.
$ uptime 9:36am up 225 day(s), 23:24, 1 user, load average: 0.07, 0.06, 0.05
And that's only because I had to power it down to add a stick of semi-generic RAM in it last year. Uptime prior to that was a year and a couple of days.
Two questions:
1) Are the 333MHz/2M CPU modules cheaper now? I'd love to swap out the 360MHz/256k CPU for a big-cache model?
2) What's the quickest/easiest way to get Mozilla running on Solaris 7? I've been stuck at Nutscrape 4.x, because of some horrid maze of library dependences that I've never been able to figure out. And Solaris 7 because a legacy app I need to use at work never got ported to 8. (Yes, the box is behind a firewall. :)
I love my Ultra 5. If the company retires this box, I'm buying it.
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by vrai · 2004-01-21 05:53 · Score: 1

1) Are the 333MHz/2M CPU modules cheaper now? I'd love to swap out the 360MHz/256k CPU for a big-cache model?
To be honest I don't know as I looked once, saw the cost, and decided against it. The problem is that the 333Mhz/2M was as good as it got for the Ultra 5, so no-one ever disposed of it whilst upgrading their machine.
2) What's the quickest/easiest way to get Mozilla running on Solaris 7? I've been stuck at Nutscrape 4.x, because of some horrid maze of library dependences that I've never been able to figure out. And Solaris 7 because a legacy app I need to use at work never got ported to 8. (Yes, the box is behind a firewall. :)
Bloody hell ... I know blastwave.org do their builds on Solaris 8 - so they're out, sunfreeware.com have an old beta (1) build for 2.7 which is less than idea. The best you're likely to get is available at http://www.mozilla.org/releases/ - a binary build of Mozilla 1.4 for Solaris 2.7. Hope this is useful.
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by The+Blue+Meanie · 2004-01-21 06:09 · Score: 2, Informative

I hear this complaint occassionally, and I usually try to ask - have you actually tried using the app in question under Solaris 8 and had it not function somehow? Sun has always been hard-core about making sure that apps for earlier versions of Solaris continue to work on the later versions. So much so in fact, that they guarantee compatibility in writing, as long as you follow their ABI guidelines. Any app that runs on 7 that won't run on 8 is rather badly written from the get-go.

As for the other questions, the CPUs pop up on eBay from time to time - try to get a 360/2 or a 440/2, they have a faster FSB. And the mozilla library dependencies ARE quite the nightmare. If you can move to Solaris 8, the dependencies at least go from being a nightmare to just a bad dream. :)

--
"I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." -- Tom Lehrer
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:32 · Score: 0

Can't stop laughing... need duck tape to tape jaws together
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 08:15 · Score: 0

> The best you're likely to get is available at http://www.mozilla.org/releases/ - a binary build of Mozilla 1.4 for Solaris 2.7. Hope this is useful.
I'm on CDE, so I tried the two non-GNOME 1.6 downloads and the 1.4.1 download from mozilla.org:
ld.so.1: [...] fatal: relocation error: [...] symbol PL_strncpy: referenced symbol not found
Perhaps I still have some patches to add on this box? (My LD_LIBRARY_PATH seemed fine - it could definitely find gtk_set_locale and friends.)
Tried the mozilla-sparc-beta1.tar.gz:
Yeah. Doesn't dump core, but it's less than ideal. Won't actually respect "Don't load images" preference even when explicitly specified under preferences/advanced. Can't click/retype an address in the address bar; have to manually Alt-L to type in a URL in a popup box.
Got the shared memory segment size warning, which may be related to the difficulties I had with the -beta1 binary. So much for my 225 day uptime. :)
I still have Netscape 3.x if I want to quickly render pages with nested tables that cause 4.x to render in O(2^n). Back to Netscape 4.x for the next few months.
The mozilla-sparc-beta1 was at least the first one I was able to run, so that was pretty useful, and it's a hell of a lot faster than 4.x on the pages I tried it with. And I have a pile of shared libraries to shuffle around in /tmp to see if I can cajole one of the other builds into working. It beats working :)
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Net_Wakker · 2004-01-21 09:15 · Score: 1

What's the quickest/easiest way to get Mozilla running on Solaris 7?

I'd try Mozilla Firebird for a browser. Available from mozilla.org, and it's great. No bloat, no crashes, v-e-r-y fast. Haven't tested Thunderbird as exhaustively, but it seems pretty ok as well.
O, I've run 'm on Solaris 8, not 7, so ymmv...

--
a horrible place
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Cheetahfeathers · 2004-01-21 09:18 · Score: 1

Don't go for the any 440 CPU on the U5/10. They're a gamble on if they'll crap out on you or not. Stick with 360. 440 had design flaws.
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by The+Blue+Meanie · 2004-01-21 10:16 · Score: 1

Hmm - guess I was one of the lucky ones. I just retired my U10 440/2 after well over a year of service as a great personal workstation. The only time it was ever rebooted was when I was physically adding to/upgrading the hardware.

--
"I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." -- Tom Lehrer
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by _damnit_ · 2004-01-21 10:30 · Score: 1

The problem is that the 333Mhz/2M was as good as it got for the Ultra 5

Not true, sir. The ultra 5 can handle 400Mhz/2MB modules (Sun p/n 501-5741 and 501-5741). There are requirements on the level of the OBP, but those can be handled with flashing the prom. If you are even braver, I know of many people who overclock these with pretty good success.
I run my entire house it seems off of one Ultra 2 with 1GB RAM and a bunch of disks. I am getting rid of my A1000 (12x9.1GB) that used to house everything if someone wants it. I just can't stand the noise and heat anymore.

--

_damnit_

It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Tenk · 2004-01-21 13:37 · Score: 1

I've got an Sparc Station 5 110 Mhz, full of ram for my main term, with an old ncd 21" screen. I use it with solaris 9, ratpoison or fluxbox and do lot's of ssh ot my laptop.

It works well, the best term i found for it is rxvt.

I add two fan at the cdrom and floppy place.

SparcStation 5 is not dead ;)
Re:I've got an Ultra 5 and a Sparc Station 5! by Tackhead · 2004-01-22 06:41 · Score: 1

> If you are even braver, I know of many people who overclock these with pretty good success.
Hmm, I haven't played with cooling for a while, and when/if I get a new CPU, I'll have a 360/256k to play with. That sounds like fun :)
I see lots of stuff on overclocking the passively-cooled SunBlades. Is there a URL that documents the FSB/multiplier jumpers for the mobos used in the Ultra 5? (And/or an FAQ that tells me what I can get away with in terms of
It's been a while, but I think the 360/256K runs at 4x90, and the 333/2M at 3x111, with more latency (6 vs 4) on the RAM for the 360. There were some 360/2Ms that ran at 3x120. I'm reasonably sure that a 333/2M would be stable at 360 even without additional cooling.
What do the 400/2M CPU modules run at, and what's the minimum revision of Ultra 5 mobo/OBP that supports them? I'm not all that confident that a 333/2M will OC to 400, but a 360/2M might, and trying either sounds like a fun way to spend an afternoon.

Err by multipartmixed · 2004-01-21 04:30 · Score: 2, Informative

s/Sparc5/Ultra5

Geez, I'm dopy today. Oh, look, so is the slashdot editor.

Sparc5 - aka Sparcstation 5 - is a really old, really crappy sun4m that is suitable for use as an X terminal and not much else.

--

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

Re:Err by Octorian · 2004-01-21 05:59 · Score: 1

Actually, the SS5 runs OpenBSD really well, and works wonderfully as a firewall/network-edge box as such.
Re:Err by Stardate · 2004-01-21 06:09 · Score: 1

That's why we're still running critical business practices on it. :) Actually we really should get them off onto new hardware, but these suckers are reliable!

--
"... I declare our city to be a free and independent state to be named Tri-Insula!" --Fernando Wood, Mayor of NYC 1861
Re:Err by Bingo+Foo · 2004-01-21 07:02 · Score: 1

Yeah, I read the headline and waxed nostalgic for my first worksation in my grad student office: a 75MHz SparcStation 5, which ran my codes at about 160% the speed of my home Pentium 100. Then I saw this story was about an UltraSparc and almost skipped it completely.
Whippersnappers.

--
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Re:Err by John_Schmidt · 2004-01-21 07:47 · Score: 1

I still use a Sparc 5 for business reasons. Webserver, ftp server, Email server, running several development applications - works just fine, and 100x more reliable then any of my MS boxes.
I use a Xserver on my laptops to run against the system; I also run a VNC server on the S5 to export a remote X desktops.
I have no reason to upgrade the system and one reason not to ($$$). It runs without a reboot for months, as solid as a rock.
There are several versions of the S5: a 70MHz (slow) up to a 170Mhz(still not fast, not not so bad).
All in all, I would not call it crappy. Now if you had said a SparcClassic, I would have agreed with you.
Re:Err by 0racle · 2004-01-21 07:54 · Score: 1

Those "really old, really crappy sun4m" workstations make for some really fantastic systems. I was able to pick up 2 Sparcstation 10's older then he 5's you were so cruel too, on was a dual supersparc 50mhz, the other a dual hypersparc 150, each with 128mb ram, for $30 each at a used computer store here. Take out the one 50 supersparc and i have a good openbsd firewall and a spare processor if it craps out, the other Im about to install Solaris 8 on. they are getting older, but that just means that you can get some great deals on them.

You have to go really far back for these Unix workstations to really use their value.

--
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Re:Err by multipartmixed · 2004-01-21 09:44 · Score: 1

> Those "really old, really crappy sun4m" workstations make for some really fantastic systems.

Hmm, so you're saying I should find something more useful for my old 6-way E3000 to do than syslog -r? :)

--

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

Ultra AXe is another decent choice by Stonent1 · 2004-01-21 04:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Basically an Ultra 5 built into an ATX motherboard. It makes it easy to toss together a system cheaply. I picked up the board for around $50 on ebay and the memory (256mb) for around $30 on ebay. Everything else was what I had laying around. Drop in a generic PCI USB/Firewire combo card and you've got most of the capabilities of a Sun Blade 100.

A couple of little caveats by mcroot · 2004-01-21 04:31 · Score: 1

I have an ultra5/270 running happily as a dev box at home here. Two things you may want to know before diving into the market.

The stock IDE performance is painfully slow.

Buying RAM for the ultra5/10 is really expensive.

Re:A couple of little caveats by nexrad · 2004-01-21 05:16 · Score: 1

Just look around on EBay. I got 512M for just $84. I then put a 40G 8M cache HD for $60 and I now have a pretty good Solaris machine or what ever OS you choose to load.
Re:A couple of little caveats by mcroot · 2004-01-21 05:26 · Score: 2

That's not a bad deal. To put my initial comments in perspective though, I paid $100 Canadian to buy a complete running machine with 270Mhz/64M/4Gb HD.

So althought it's not *that* expensive. Buying $84US worth of RAM would just about double my investment.

On a positive note though, of all the Sun Hardware I have (3 machines) nothing has every failed. So they can definitely be a good long term investment.

Same Situation by HippieJoe · 2004-01-21 04:32 · Score: 1

I'm in the same exact situation as the writer. I have this Ultra 5 that I was SO proud of when I bought it, and now it just irritates my wife. I keep thinking about loading Debian, but I hate to loose the ability to use my SunPCi Card.

Memories by wayward_son · 2004-01-21 04:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

I recieved much of my college education on Ultra 5's.

They were exciting and new back in 1999 when I started. The computer lab had a row of Ultra 5's, a few Ultra 1's, some SparcStation 4,5,10, & 20's and even a few SparcClassics (!). There were also some Solaris/Intel machines. The U-5's were definitely the machines you wanted.

Eventually the U-5's replaced all the older machines before being phased out themselves by the SunBlades. All in all, they were not bad machines, but the video seriously left something to be desired. And the 128MB of RAM in the older machines just didn't cut it by the end. Considering what a comparable Wintel Box would have cost at the time and how long they would have lasted, the U-5's were not a bad deal. There are probably many still around the department and in the labs today.

Re:Memories by slashdot_commentator · 2004-01-21 10:25 · Score: 1

Why the heck would you replace U-5's with SunBlades? Is it because of the unique SPARC software? A current 64-bit desktop PC beats a Sunblade hands down, at half the price.

--
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by 32bitwonder · 2004-01-21 04:32 · Score: 1

Useless? Hardly. I run a website on lesser hardware!

--
www.brownsauce.org

Sun NeXT by Phrack · 2004-01-21 04:32 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ah, the Sparc 5.. it ran NeXTSTEP real well. Better than Solaris, for that matter.

And no, I don't mean OpenSTEP.. google around, you'll find it.

--
Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org

Re:Sun NeXT by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:23 · Score: 0

I'm not sure about NeXTStep on sparc, but you can find a free beta Sparc/solaris OpenStep package. The OpenStep spec was a collaboration of Sun and NeXT. Of course, Sun decided they'd rather go with java.

Uh, OS Dorks, wrong machine. :P by EvilStein · 2004-01-21 04:33 · Score: 1

Sparc 5 = Sun Sparcstation 5

They're talking about the Ultra 5. A bit pedantic, maybe, but the two are definately different machines.

The Ultra 5 units could use IDE drives but i/o bandwidth was restricted. A SCSI drive performed a lot better.

Did they really even *check* eBay first? I wonder, because they said Ultra 5s go between $200 - $300. I'm looking at one right now for $65 (Buy It Now price, too!) They can easily be found for under $100.

i got one not too long ago by nester · 2004-01-21 04:33 · Score: 1

to play with solaris. i have solaris 9 and debian on it. java is 2-3 times faster on this thing than compaq's horrible 1.3 jvm on my dual 833 alpha running linux. it's as fast as my year old dell demension l1000r at work running win98 + hotspot.

to get decent preformance:

get a 333mhz/2meg cpu module (either with the machine, or buy a 270mhz/256k box and buy the 333mhz by itself). the cache makes a big difference.

take the ata drive and rip it out. go buy a symbios uw scsi card and a newer generation 10k cheetah. solaris's ufs will thrash like crazy on anything slower. it is unusably slow with the stock drive.

you should be able to get all that off of ebay for around $200.

Big frickin' deal by keesh · 2004-01-21 04:34 · Score: 1

I have a real sparc 5 (not an ultra 5), and a sparcstation 20, an ultra1 and an ultra10 as well. All running a bleeding edge Linux distro. What's the point of this article? These boxes are common as mud and very well supported...

Re:Big frickin' deal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 0

How the fuck did you compile Gentoo on a Sparc 5? That's at best the 110mhz processor (the 170 doesn't work with Linux). That must have taken you at least 2 weeks to bootstrap. Kind of silly if you ask me.
Re:Big frickin' deal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:16 · Score: 0

How the fuck did you compile Gentoo on a Sparc 5? That's at best the 110mhz processor (the 170 doesn't work with Linux). That must have taken you at least 2 weeks to bootstrap. Kind of silly if you ask me.

You don't have to compile the code on the machine you dumbass. Just let a faster machine compile it.
Re:Big frickin' deal by keesh · 2004-01-21 05:50 · Score: 1

Stage 3 + GRP + kernel from another box. Took about three hours to install, which was actually faster than the equivalent GNU/Debian GNU/Sparc install. Also, Gentoo supports the 170 CPU just fine.

That's a misleading title... by Mysticalfruit · 2004-01-21 04:34 · Score: 1

The article is talking about Ultra5's, not Sparc 5's... BIG DIFFERENCE!

Though personally, the sparc 5 was a better designed machine than the ultra 5. Somehow the notion of a Sun workstation without that amazing whirr noise that their scsi disks were prone to make just isn't right!

--
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.

This is a great idea.... by sinergy · 2004-01-21 04:35 · Score: 2, Funny

Put some old things on Ebay, and create a completely unmerited ferver on /. to buy them.

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...

sparc 5 != ultra5!!! by kennedy · 2004-01-21 04:36 · Score: 1

oh come ON! the sparc5 was a 32bit sun4m class workstation. the ultra 5 is a 64bit sun4u class workstation.... there is a BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!

having said that, i love my sun gear. i'm a happy owner of a 4 sparc4/sparc5 class systems, 2 smp sparc20s, a sparc1+, a sparcstation lx, sparcstation ELC and an SLC, and 2 ultra 5s.

Re:Businessmodel? by armaghetto · 2004-01-21 04:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think owning a few sparc 5's, submitting an article to slashdot on the revival of the platform, then selling it on ebay works just fine.

That's "Ultra Sparc 5" not "Sparc 5" by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:38 · Score: 1, Informative

There is a big difference between a "Sparc 5" and an "Ultra Sparc 5". Sun made a 32-bit "Sparc 5" back in the late 80's/early 90's. The "Ultra Sparc 5" is much newer, runs the 64-bit processor (That's what Ultra means) and just went end-of-life a year or two ago.

Re:That's "Ultra Sparc 5" not "Sparc 5" by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:22 · Score: 1

It's not an "Ultra Sparc 5". "UltraSPARC" is the name of the processor, not the machine. The machine's official name is "Sun Ultra 5", and it uses an "UltraSPARC IIi" processor. (last I checked, Sun was on the UltraSPARC III, and planning the UltraSPARC IV)

The point being? by DjReagan · 2004-01-21 04:38 · Score: 1

This story was posted... because running 5 year old hardware is such a difficult and bizarre thing?!?

--
"When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"

Dear Lord ... by nbvb · 2004-01-21 04:38 · Score: 0, Troll

My gawd, people have no idea what they're talking about.

First of all, the article is about an *Ultra 5*, not a SPARCstation 5 (Which is what's implied by SPARC 5).

Secondly, "old"? Geeze.

The SPARCstation 5 *still* runs the latest-n-greatest versions of Solaris (Sol 9). It's still supported and everything.

The same CD you use to load Solaris on that SPARCstation 5 will boot a Sun Fire 15k with 106 CPU's.

Now *that's* scalable. :)

I seriously can't believe people are considering the Ultra 5 as an antique.

I still have a SPARCstation 20, and consider it one of my favorite computers, ever. It's got a super-elegant design, is rock-solid, and Just Works (tm).

How anyone can "wax nostalgic" about an Ultra 5 is beyond me. They're not that old.

Maybe for you PeeCee dorks who upgrade their video boards every 14 minutes, but to those of us who actually USE our machines for something, they're fresh as a daisy.

My Ultra 5 story by bongoras · 2004-01-21 04:38 · Score: 4, Interesting

I bought an ultra 5 a few years ago used, and it sat running Solaris at my email server for my home domain. Then I got sick of Solaris, since it reminds me too much of my days working at Genuity. Talk about nightmares... everytime I sat down at the computer I felt my old PHB asking me for a status update and a team schedule and to update my bug reports.

So I wiped Solaris off it and starting fooling around with Debian Sparc. But it seemed... cheesy... just wrong. This is my personal box. Debian just seemed too easy. So I bit the bullet and put Gentoo for Sparc on it. Gentoo is PERFECT for reclaiming older hardware. A little reading of man gcc, some thought about my use flags... ( mine are: USE="apache2 imap maildir samba xml -arts -avi -encode -esd -gtk -gnome -imlib -kde -mad -mikmod -mpeg -oggvorbis -oss -opengl -qt -sdl -truetype -xv -xmms -motif")

And a FREAKING LONG TIME compiling everything... and I have the Unix box I've always wanted. Mine. No one else's. I mess with it, beat on it, do things do it I'd never do on a production system. It's totally fun, and Gentoo Linux on the Ultra 5 has given me a reborn enthusiasm for Linux and computers in general.

Re:My Ultra 5 story by awkScooby · 2004-01-21 06:34 · Score: 1

Then I got sick of Solaris, since it reminds me too much of my days working at Genuity. Talk about nightmares... everytime I sat down at the computer I felt my old PHB asking me for a status update and a team schedule and to update my bug reports. Did you get the memo about the TPS reports?

Sparc 5, feh! by alamut · 2004-01-21 04:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

i recently bought a sparc station 20 on ebay for $35 - including shipping!

it'll do just fine as a fileserver and entropy generator. and you cant beat the price.

nor can you beat the amusement of seeing what was left on the drives... mind boggling!

Re:Sparc 5, feh! by b1t+r0t · 2004-01-21 08:05 · Score: 1

Old hard drives can be fun. Every now and then I'll find a few-hundred-meg external hard drive or Syquest cartridge at a thrift store, and inevitably they'll be formatted HFS, since Mac users were the only ones to use external drives.
One drive that I found in Houston was originally used in 1992-1993 by an engineer at Read-Rite corporation (a hard drive heads maker that went out of business a couple of years back due to management gone very bad). That was probably in California, so how it ended up in Houston ten years later would make an interesting story.
I've also found a couple of tapes with interesting information on them, but they're a lot more trouble to read.

--

--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft

64 bit a marketing tool? by sirket · 2004-01-21 04:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

This line pissed me off:

Back then, 64-bits was more of a marketing tool, and in many respects, still is.

64 bit gave higher precision for use on CAD workstations. Anyone who every used a Sun workstation for it's intended purpose would know this.

-sirket

Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by Junks+Jerzey · 2004-01-21 04:46 · Score: 1

64 bit gave higher precision for use on CAD workstations. Anyone who every used a Sun workstation for it's intended purpose would know this.

But the x86 FPU has always supported 64-bit operations natively. Actually, they're 80-bit operations internally. This is completley different than having a 64-bit address space, of course.
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by sql*kitten · 2004-01-21 04:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

64 bit gave higher precision for use on CAD workstations. Anyone who every used a Sun workstation for it's intended purpose would know this.

Oh yes, 64-bit has been not a luxury by a necessity in many industries for a decade now, anything that involves heavy number crunching - CAD, CAE, CFD, other forms of simulation, Monte Carlo runs in finance, physics models...

A while ago OSNews reviewed, IIRC, a new Sun workstation. The conclusion? It's crap because it's too hard to change the resolution or the colour scheme. Not one test they did was even remotely related to what a workstation is used for, they didn't even try compiling anything, let alone doing some MATLAB or solid modelling.

You can pretty much ignore any OSNews review of anything, in fact I've no idea why a discussion site (i.e. /.) even links to another discussion site as a story!
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:15 · Score: 0

What an obnoxious, worthless post. What, pray tell, is the intended purpose for an all-purpose Ultra 5? Why don't you enlighten us?

Also, I feel sorry for anyone doing CAD work on an Ultra 5, they're too slow for that.
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by chez69 · 2004-01-21 05:28 · Score: 1

uh, maybe when the pentium came out but a 486 sure as hell couldn't do 64 bit math. It is not about the math, it is about big ass memory space.

--
PHP is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by autocracy · 2004-01-21 05:31 · Score: 2, Funny

Maybe by linking to other sites that don't do as well, we don't look as bad? Then again, more people would have to RTFA for that to work...

--
SIG: HUP
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by KrispyKringle · 2004-01-21 06:07 · Score: 1

To give the benefit of the doubt, the author may have meant that many organizations purchased 64-bit Sparcs without really being able to justify the need. That's not the same as saying some uses dont require it, but rather just that many of the real-world applications of these machines weren't any of those that did.
But I'm just guessing here. The author doesn't really say enough for me to be sure which it is, and you may well be right. OSNews, much like Slashdot itself, doesn't always have the best editorial oversight.
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:56 · Score: 0

Yup, that site blows hardcore rocks. The editors are not only clueless but actually mean when they are pointed out their actual incorrectness. That is what happens when fanboys are in charge.

They also reviewed the MIPS pro developer suite a while back, their conclusiom? Basically the IDE blew becasue the editor did not like the color scheme (which is customizable BTW, but she was too dumb to find out), and that some code would not compile. The problem was not with the IDE, or the compiler but rather the code which was too gcc-centric and MIPS compilers are notoriously anal when it comes to do real ANSI C. I usually run things through MIPS compilers to make sure the code is both very portable, and actually as close to the standard as I will ever get.

It is also fun to see some of their "ideas" for what an OS should do/or have because it is clear that none of their editors has ever taken an OS class, or program any sort of complex system for that matter. Talking about cluelessness :).
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by lederhosen · 2004-01-21 07:24 · Score: 1

The 386 did 64 bit math.
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by mph · 2004-01-21 07:32 · Score: 1

uh, maybe when the pentium came out but a 486 sure as hell couldn't do 64 bit math.
Bzzt! We have loser, folks! As Junks Jerzey said, Intel FPUs do internal 80-bit arithmetic, even going back to the 8087.
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 08:35 · Score: 0

It is the "Sun Ultra 5 Workstation." One would expect it to be used for workstation tasks. Workstation tasks have traditionally been CAD work. Where is the confusion?
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 08:40 · Score: 0

How does one use 64 bit numbers on a 486 or a pentium? Are there special registers for this that allow you to bypass the processor registers? Are there special processor registers that I am unaware of?
Re:64 bit a marketing tool? by iggymanz · 2004-01-21 16:15 · Score: 1

We used AutoCAD on our Sparcstation 2's and SGI Indys in 1992-1995, which had 64 bit precision via integer arithmetic, no floating point instructions. Now that AutoDesk has dropped everything but Windows/x836, maybe they use floating point now, wouldn't know.

Funny how many of the "64 bit" Solaris version really were 32/64 bit hybrids, even Solaris 8 has a heck of a lot of issues & problems with certain commands when 2G or 32 bit barrier breached. Also funny how default kernel was 32 bit on many workstations, even though the 64 bit one was also laying around on disk (and had whole lot of issues if one ran it up to at least Solaris 8) Soon I'll plop Solaris 9 on my Ultra and see if Sun finally has a true pure 64 bit system like Scott McMeallyMouth has been kind of lying about for the last 10 years.

how "value" depends on conatext by selderrr · 2004-01-21 04:39 · Score: 1

from the article :I live on the island of Manhattan, where space is a premium. ... and then further... consuming more and more of my time and curiosity

this confirms a statement of a friend who lives in NYC : "in manhattan, time is no longer money since everyone has loads of'em these days. Space on the other hand..."

--
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?

..a way to woo the ladies.. by burgburgburg · 2004-01-21 04:40 · Score: 1

Exactly what sort of "ladies" find themselves woo'd by a Sun Ultra 5?

Re:..a way to woo the ladies.. by FerretFrottage · 2004-01-21 04:51 · Score: 1

ladies that are into 64 bit tanning salons?

--
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."

Erm, so? by grahamlee · 2004-01-21 04:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

The Ultra 5 is a 'modern' UltraSPARC-based system. Solaris still supports the platform; indeed even Solaris 10 will still support the U5 (and the Ultra 2, but not the Ultra 1. The UltraSPARCs used in the Ultra 1 had a comedy bug anyway, which meant that they shouldn't be used in 64 bit mode). Now, if they'd been talking about the SPARCstation 5, I would have been interested.

The SS5 had a HyperSPARC processor, just like the SPARCStation 2 over in the corner of this room (in a 'rack' consisting of a pair of Ultra 1s, the SS2 and some spacers made of plastic). This was a good old-fashioned rock-steady 32bit Sun machine, just like they used to make before they went all cheap (that's the build price, not the retail price!). The principle difference as far as I'm concerned between the SS5 and the SS2, and the reason I'd be interested to hear about the longevity of the SS5, is that the 5 can run NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP for SPARC platform whereas the 2 cannot.

An Ultra 5, on the other hand, is just Yet Another 64-bit Solaris Box like the two Ultra 1s behind me or the 4-way Enterprise server across the way.

Re:Erm, so? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:53 · Score: 0

no it didnt. the SS5 had a microsparcII cpu, the SS20 had mbus which supports supersparc/hypersparc.
Re:Erm, so? by CoreDump · 2004-01-21 06:03 · Score: 1

Actually, the SS5 used the MicroSPARC CPU arch. Basically, the same as the SS4, though the SS5 was a better box overall. And the last SS5's went up to 170Mhz CPUs, where SS4 stopped at 110Mhz.
And even the SS5 is still serviceable as a basic system. I've got one that I use for personal devel work, code wrangling, cvs, mysql database, vanity web server. It's an SS5/170 running Solaris 8. Slapped two SCSI disk in, an SBUS HME network card ( on ebay for a bucks ) and it works very steady:
SunOS core 5.8 Generic_108528-20 sun4m sparc SUNW,SPARCstation-5
12:01pm up 89 day(s), 36 min(s), 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.02
Sun hardware just runs and runs and runs. Find me a PC built the same time as my little SS5 that is still running :)

--
---
Segmentation Fault ( core dumped )

Righto, my mistake. by maynard · 2004-01-21 04:41 · Score: 2, Informative

The SS5 had a built in processor.

Absolutely right; I knew that. I've got an SS5, SS10, and SS20 and simply made a mistake in my post. Whoops. --M

Re:Righto, my mistake. by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:17 · Score: 1

No, you didn't make a mistake. The SS5 is a sun4m class machine. The mbus is implicitly built into the machine's architecture. Sure, it doesn't have a physical MBUS "slot", but it is a sun4m machine.
Re:Righto, my mistake. by sirket · 2004-01-21 08:44 · Score: 1

All I said was that the SS5 lacked an mbus slot and that the ss10 and ss20 used mbus modules. I never said the ss5 did not use mbus.

I still have an ss10 with 512 MB of RAM and dual SM81 processors, an SS20 with 384 MB of RAM, dual 2 MB NVSIMM's for disk write caching and dual SM82 processors, and I also have a 110MHz ss5 with god only knows what in it :)

-sirket

I still love my Ultra 1 by MajorDick · 2004-01-21 04:41 · Score: 1

My trusty old Ultra 1 works great as a mail server at 167mhz, something about suns and sendmail have always seemed a little odd , they seem to perform significantly better that x86 counterparts. As was proof MANY years ago when a SS20 I inhereted administration of got used as an open relay 2 days after I assumed admin of it, I cant remeber how many messages but it was unreal.

My NEWEST computer is older than that by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:42 · Score: 0

Seven run nonstop in the basement, and keep me employed. The newest is a 1998 G3 Mac.

This guy is a turd.

Typical OSNews article by Gothmolly · 2004-01-21 04:42 · Score: 1

-1, Redundant, Sparc 5 != Sun Ultra 5
As everyone knows, OSNews is a pinnacle of journalistic quality and integrity. Coming up next, an article on how to change the colors in CDE once you get that 'ancient' Ultra 5 running. Followed by a rant about how difficult it is to compile GAIM or XMMS on Solaris 8.

--
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.

you mean sun ultra 5 by joelja · 2004-01-21 04:42 · Score: 1

a Sparc 5 is a sun 4(32bit) architecture machine with a microsparc cpu... the machine in this article is a sun ultra 5 with a ultrasparc IIi cpu, probably order of 10x the speed of an sparc-5-70 if not faster.

Re:you mean sun ultra 5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:28 · Score: 0

You certainly were among the many pricks who've repeated the same correction. Get over yourself.
Loser.

Good 'ol US5 by csoto · 2004-01-21 04:45 · Score: 1

We've got some Blade 100s to replace them, and there's not much difference (besides DVD and better speed, and most importantly, it uses standard DRAM). Good 'ol reliable Solaris on SPARC.

Now, however, the "good medicine" (watching Dances With Wolves at the moment) belongs in the Macintosh camp. OSX is akin to the SunOS of yore. Tinker around with it, but still get shit done. And, with a G5, it's even 64-bit (big whoop, except possibly for Genentech and VA Tech). Plus, the TiBooks and AlBooks look swank.

But, I still use the Blade.

--
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom

My SparcStation2 still kicking by kindbud · 2004-01-21 04:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

It runs RedHat 5.2... No, really! I still have the CD. I also have a CD for SunOS 4.1.4, which I might load on it again one day.

It ran Solaris2 like a pig, btw...

Two 50 Mb Quantum HDD, 64 Mb of 9-pin DRAM DIMMs in four banks of four... Ah, those were the days. (NOT!)

--
Edith Keeler Must Die

Re:My SparcStation2 still kicking by kindbud · 2004-01-21 04:49 · Score: 1

Oops, make that 30-pin, 9-chip DRAM DIMMs. So sue me.

--
Edith Keeler Must Die
Re:My SparcStation2 still kicking by red+floyd · 2004-01-21 05:42 · Score: 1

Weren't the 30pin x 9bit sticks SIMMs and not DIMMs?

--
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Re:My SparcStation2 still kicking by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 09:10 · Score: 0

...So sue me.
You should be hearing from SCO's General Counsel shortly.
Re:My SparcStation2 still kicking by TekPolitik · 2004-01-21 10:18 · Score: 1

Two 50 Mb Quantum HDD, 64 Mb of 9-pin DRAM DIMMs
We have a SS2 with 32MB of RAM that still runs our production mail server.

Not particularly well informed in some areas by elmegil · 2004-01-21 04:48 · Score: 4, Informative

FTA: Unfortunately, you're stuck with Sun keyboards and mice, as the connector is Sun-specific, as well as certain specialty keys. There may be adapters, but I don't know how well they'll work with the specialized keys.

Not true. I've been using a Logitech TrackMan Pro for several years now, with the aid of a nifty box that converts PS/2 devices (has an input for a keyboard and for a mouse) into the Sun connector. It was a Sun part number, somewhat obscure, but definitely available and useful. It's called the "Sun Interface Converter" and the Sun part number is 595-3692. I'd recommend you go looking for one if you are having trouble coming up with Sun Keyboards & Mice or if you want to use your Sun system with a standard KVM switch (which is what I do at home).

--
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001

Re:Not particularly well informed in some areas by Endive4Ever · 2004-01-21 08:42 · Score: 1

I connect to most of my Sun hardware through Serial Port A while installing the OS and then through the Ethernet from that point on. I do have a luscious SS10sx, which is a rare box in that it has two cgfourteen framebuffers built in (24 bit color, maaaaan!) which is a great dual-head classic sparc box, but for the most part you never need to plug a keyboard into a sun machine to get good use out of it.

The obsession with having a keyboard and monitor attached to the machine. It's so pee-cee. Your MOM's computer has a keyboard and monitor.

This all brings back nostalgic memories of installing NetBSD on old lunchbox IPX and IPC machines using an Apple serial cable, null modem, dumb terminal, and an NFS share from a Slackware box. Those were the days of adventure... or something.

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Re:Not particularly well informed in some areas by javiercero · 2004-01-21 09:23 · Score: 1

Actually the SS10SX like the SS20 does not have a frame buffer built in, you have to install the DIMM/FB option to get the frame buffer complete (it has the video generation logic on board I think). For the second head you need that almost unobtanium video board, which I have never been able to track down :(.

Actually I love SUN keyboards, until they went with the horrible type 6 ugh. Nowadays I believe they use plain USB for interface. But for lots of typing nothing beats the Type 5 or some of the good Type 4's. Plus they are almost indestructible!
Re:Not particularly well informed in some areas by elmegil · 2004-01-21 11:06 · Score: 1

Good luck troubleshooting that SS10 without a console when it's hosed.

--
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Re:Not particularly well informed in some areas by elmegil · 2004-01-21 11:09 · Score: 1

I suppose I should say, if you don't want to drag it back to where you have that serial port set up.

--
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Re:Not particularly well informed in some areas by Endive4Ever · 2004-01-21 13:11 · Score: 1

My SS10sx has always had those VSIMMs installed. When I chanced upon it there were two 4 meg modules installed, and yes, it has the second video board. You have to run Solaris, as nobody else has ever figured out how to support the cgfourteen (that I know of) in 24 bit color. It's such a small segment of the framebuffer 'market' that I suppose it'll never be supported with any 'free' X server.

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Old Sparc hardware by abrotman · 2004-01-21 04:48 · Score: 1

http://www.anysystem.com/

ive never bought .. but i like the selection

Re:Old Sparc hardware by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 07:44 · Score: 0

I work there.
Give me a call or email if you want a good deal:
201-444-6110 x122
dave@NO_SPAM.anysystem.com
Pay no attention to the website prices...

Ultra 5? by BenjyD · 2004-01-21 04:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

An Ultra 5 is retro? Worth getting nostalgic about? My main desktop at work was a SparcStation 5 until 18 months ago.

A friend uses a bunch of old sparcs to run his network - easier to use a load of small boxes than one big one. Pretty reliable too:
4:46pm up 454 day(s), 20:02, 1 user, load average: 0.11, 0.05, 0.03
4:48pm up 253 day(s), 47 min(s), 1 user, load average: 0.05, 0.03, 0.02
4:48pm up 454 days, 19:56, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

Re:Ultra 5? by floatt · 2004-01-21 05:28 · Score: 1

Thanks for letting us know how long it's been since you patched your boxes.
Re:Ultra 5? by BenjyD · 2004-01-21 05:33 · Score: 1

They're not my boxes, and they're not internet facing anyway :). Anyway, doesn't Solaris' patch system rarely require a reboot anyway?
Re:Ultra 5? by floatt · 2004-01-21 05:38 · Score: 1

the kernel patch (and others) requires a reboot.

Boring, not /. worthy article by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Any nostalga computing /. posts should only include
1. stuff from 1990 or earlier
2. square peg in a round hole
2.1. ethernet in a c64
2.2. web server on a TRS80
2.3. porting modern software to old obscure platforms
3. Univac 1

Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by bhtooefr · 2004-01-21 05:13 · Score: 1

1. Let's make it 10 years. 1990 or earlier would have made sense in 2000, but not in '04.
2. Call it using modern stuff (10BaseT counts, as it is compatible with modern stuff) on stuff that meets the criteria of #1.
3. Umm... the Univac is a system that qualifies for #1 (being from the '60s) - therefore, it's redundant.
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by ryanr · 2004-01-21 05:54 · Score: 1

Exactly.

I saw the headline, and thought.. oh yeah, I've got a Sparc 5 in the garage. I've got a Sparc 20 running Solaris 7 with a nice external 18GB drive, and..

Oh. You mean an *ULTRA* 5. Pfft. Call me when you've got some old hardware. I'd like to have some Sun hardware as recent as an Ultra 5.
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by tomhudson · 2004-01-21 06:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

quote from the story lead-in:
if you really want 64-bit computing, it's available cheaply on eBay.
quotoe from the story
... can find them on eBay for between $200.00 and $400.00

Or you can buy a new 64-bit motherboard and 64-bit cpu (athlon64) and for the same $400 bucks, and not have to worry about the lack of video cards (come on $400+ just for an 8-meg pci video card), special ram (doesn't take standard ram), other special hardware (non-standard keyboard, etc.).
These machines are being sold "cheaply" compared to their original cost, but they are no bargain. Give them to someone you don't like.
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by pe1rxq · 2004-01-21 06:46 · Score: 1

You only need the $400 card if you want a real Sun one and want it supported by Solaris.
You can stuff in any PCI video card if you run some other OS such as Linux.

Jeroen

--
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by You're+All+Wrong · 2004-01-21 06:50 · Score: 1

10 years makes the ultrasparc (1995/1996) too modern.

YAW.

--
Your head of state is a corrupt weasel, I hope you're happy.
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by tomhudson · 2004-01-21 06:56 · Score: 1

Your local computer store is not likely to be stocking PCI video cards any more (mine isn't) so it's either shop online or special order or look through the old boxes.
My point was that the cost of one of these boxes and a (special ram required) memory upgrade to 1 gig, you could buy a brand-new 64-bit computer with the same ram, much better performance, etc. These old boxes are of no use to anyone.
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by b1t+r0t · 2004-01-21 07:40 · Score: 1

I wonder if a PowerMac video card will work. They both use Open Firmware/Open Boot, which is I think is supposed to be CPU independent, so maybe the ROM requirements are the same.

--

--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by TheRaven64 · 2004-01-21 07:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

The Sparcstation 2/4 era pizza boxes make superb X terminals. A minimal install of NetBSD (The Sparc32 version of Linux has some MMU issues, and is noticeably slower) and an X server set up to query a remote machine makes them very usable. We've got a couple of them lying around here running off a P3 box. They only do 256 colours, so they're not ideal for anything graphics intensive, but for web browsing, and basic office stuff they're fine (and a lot cheaper than a `real' computer. We were just given 4 SS4s when someone was clearing out a store room).

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by Tassach · 2004-01-21 09:05 · Score: 1

Well, obviously they must be of some use to someone, because otherwise they wouldn't be routinely selling for several hundred dollars on E-Bay. We're not talking beanie babies or barbie dolls here -- a computer is a useful tool, not a collectable. (Well, I'm sure there are some computer collecters out there, but not enough to account for the volume of sales evident on E-Bay.) Noone in thier right mind is going to spend $300 on an obsolete peice of hardware unless they think it is a better value for their money than new hardware of the same price.
If I need a cheap reliable server, I'd buy a good used enterprise-grade machine off of E-Bay before I'd build a "server" out of consumer grade desktop parts. If you don't understand why, then you're not a real sysadmin.

--
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 09:22 · Score: 0

If I need a cheap reliable server, I'd buy a good used enterprise-grade machine off of E-Bay before I'd build a "server" out of consumer grade desktop parts. If you don't understand why, then you're not a real sysadmin.
Hmmm...I'm a sysadmin, but maybe not a real one by this definition. Why would an obsolete 5 or 6 year old system off eBay, with an unknown service and maintenance history, and NO WARRANTY OR SERVICE CONTRACT be more reliable than a hand built system, made with parts you specify and choose (ie: pick the high quality parts, not the crap), and under manufacturer's warranty? I doubt you're a real sysadmin either. Why would you be trawling eBay for 'enterprise' grade hardware? What kind of company do you work for? 'Enterprise' is a word used by Star Trek geeks and middle managers who think they sound impressive to both techies and CIOs alike. Fool.
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by Tassach · 2004-01-21 10:03 · Score: 1

Notice the word good. There are plenty of reputable used hardware vendors on E-Bay who do offer waranties and service contracts on what they sell. If you want to know the service history, you email the seller and ask for the service tag number and look up it up for yourself on the vendor website.
If I needed a good database server for a client on a really tight budget, I'd buy them something like this used Quad 550 PIII Xeon over a $1000 homebrew white box any day. What kind of server can you build for $1000? For that money I could build a nice dual Athlon with an IDE RAID array (and no warranty other than at the component level) This would be a kick-ass workstation, a tolerable general-purpose file/web/mail/dns workgroup server, or a shitty database server. Most serious server applications are I/O bound, not CPU bound. A larger number of slower processors with a fast I/O subsystem is better for this kind of load.

--
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by pe1rxq · 2004-01-21 10:34 · Score: 1

I don't think that would matter at all (I haven't tried a pci card in my ultra 10 yet, its a creator 3d and comes with a very good card (two actually it also has onboard vga)).
You would probably not get a console on it, but X should be able to work with it fine.

Jeroen

--
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by Mir322 · 2004-01-21 11:40 · Score: 1

hey ! *g* what about the PDP-11 ?

--
"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."- Friedrich Nietzsche
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2004-01-21 11:51 · Score: 1

Sparc 5... Ultra 5...
All the same for the 1n73lKidd13z!

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Re:Boring, not /. worthy article by tomhudson · 2004-01-22 03:44 · Score: 1

Lots of stuff is overpriced on eBay, but people buy it anyway - there's a sucker born every minute. I know one idiot who's buying p3-450s for $300 a pop and thinks he's getting a great deal "because these machines were several thousand dollars new".

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by grub · 2004-01-21 04:49 · Score: 1

Rubbish.

If you need a high availability service (DNS comes to mind) with minimal downtime a "pizza box" is a great unit. It will run forever and a day until some hardware finally gives out. That may take a while too as they aren't super-mass produced shit, they're decently engineered equipment.

--
Trolling is a art,

BZZT! Wrong! by Cheerio+Boy · 2004-01-21 04:51 · Score: 1

Sparc5 - aka Sparcstation 5 - is a really old, really crappy sun4m that is suitable for use as an X terminal and not much else.

Bzzt! Wrong!

These systems make great dedicated use servers. I personally use mine as a webserver - and with only 32meg as well. (Not that it'd handle a slashdotting or anything - I'm too lazy to load balance what is basically my home site. ;-)

--

"Bah!" - Dogbert

faster, cheaper, runs Linux, buy an Alpha! by Brannon · 2004-01-21 04:52 · Score: 1

Any Alpha will do, because they are all 64bits, and have been from the beginning. You can get 500 & 600Mhz EV5's cheap on Ebay. They also run Linux (and have from the beginning), and are notoriously faster than Sun boxes.

Alive again? WTF, it never died! by bazik · 2004-01-21 04:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

My main desktop is a Sun Ultra5 w/ 440MHz, 512MB RAM and 2x 18gb U320 SCSI disks (attached to a Sym22801). Who said the Ultra5 ever died?

The only disadvantage of the Ultra5/10 is the slow IDE bus, but you can put a scsi controller in it.

The board (depending on the version) can take up to 1GB ram and a 440MHz Ultrasparc IIi w/ 2 MB CPU cache. So this is a really nice box and fast enough for most work.

--

--
One by one the penguins steal my sanity...

Oh Great! by moored2 · 2004-01-21 04:53 · Score: 0

Now every going to go to ebay and drive up the prices!!

Still my DHCP server at home... by Whatanut · 2004-01-21 04:54 · Score: 1

Not the Ultra... just the regular sparc 5. Bought it off ebay just to play with Solaris.

--

yvan eht nioj

Please.. It all went to hell after SunOS 3.5.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:57 · Score: 0

Interactive system performance was crap after that.

Take all of your freakin' bogoMIPS and show me how quick X11 is on your box compared to a Sun 3 running a 68020 at 20 or 25 mhz...

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 04:58 · Score: 0

Agreed. My DNS servers are two SPARCstation IPX's running NetBSD 1.6 with BIND. 100% uptime. 'nuff said.

Quiet, keesh! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:01 · Score: 0

The adults are trying to talk about their big-people UNIX, called Solaris. Stop pestering us with your Gentoy and go to play in your room.

Re:Quiet, keesh! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:59 · Score: 0

slowaris? naah, see real unix systems are fast, scalable, support raid and have a proper journaled filesystem

Re:BZZT! Wrong! by armachd · 2004-01-21 05:02 · Score: 1

What's the URL to your home site again? :D :D

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by grub · 2004-01-21 05:03 · Score: 1

I get so fucking irate when someone suggests "D-uh, just buy a new 128 CPU 640 THz Intel machine and put Linux on it!" for a mundane task.

In the room next to my office we have an 8 CPU SGI Challenge system. It doesn't do much for "real work" now-a-days (the newer Origins on the SAN do the grunt work) but it still runs some networking stuff and logging. That thing is a damn tank, I'm sure it will outlast my great-great grandkids :)

--
Trolling is a art,

/. and OSnews just needs to merge already by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 0

Frankly, /. is now just copying OSNews articles constantly.

WTF, can't you guys get some better content?

My pizza box... by thrillbert · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 1

Here's your pizza box working as a mail server taking care of all my spam:

OpenBSD 3.1 (GENERIC) #27: Wed Apr 17 13:52:53 MDT 2002 deraadt@sparc.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/sparc/ compile/GENERIC real mem = 66781184 avail mem = 58892288 using 200 buffers containing 3338240 bytes of memory bootpath: /iommu@0,10000000/sbus@0,10001000/espdma@5,8400000 /esp@5,8800000/sd@1,0 mainbus0 (root): SUNW,SPARCstation-5 cpu0 at mainbus0: MB86904 @ 70 MHz, on-chip FPU cpu0: 16K instruction (32 b/l), 8K data (16 b/l) cache enabled I've only had to reboot it once in the past year, and that's because I was cleaning my garage this past weekend.. otherwise, it runs very much like my refrigerator.. I never have to even think about it.

---
A cynic is a person searching for an honest man, with a stolen lantern.
-- Edgar A. Shoaff

*sigh* by ChristTrekker · 2004-01-21 05:04 · Score: 1

If only Irix was as easy to acquire as Solaris is nowadays. I've got an SGI sitting at home (that I stub my toe on, like the author did his Ultra 5) that I'd love to have another Unix flavor on for the experience. I'm not going to spend eBay prices on what is essentially a toy, so unfortunately I'm out of luck. Unless SGI has plans I don't know about.

--

Constitutionally Correct

Sparc 5 Running Linux by revtom · 2004-01-21 05:06 · Score: 1

I have a old Sun Sparc 5 Running SUSE Linux. It's a LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) machine that stores and serves databased information to our corporate intranet. The database is on mirrored 1gig Sun Unipack drives. If you design a small/medium sized database correctly, this is plenty of power. All parts were taken from the junk heap. And yes, this database is backed up every day, just in case the 8 year old drives give out some day.

I remember when I got the first Sparc5. I had the fastest computer in the building. Those were the days...

--
-- We live in a kakistocracy.

How Many Slashdot Posters Does It Take... by tokki · 2004-01-21 05:08 · Score: 1

To correct, in an obnoxious, arrogant, and belligerent manner, what could easily be just a brain fart on the part of the submitter?

The answer is around 50 so far.

Ebay? by er_col · 2004-01-21 05:09 · Score: 1

if you really want 64-bit computing, it's available cheaply on eBay

This sure sounds like paid advertisement, but as everyone knows, with the advent of pricewatch et al. ebay hasn't been (or should I say has never been?) the best place to buy anything computer related (or should I say anything, full stop?)...

Re:Ebay? by Cheetahfeathers · 2004-01-21 09:46 · Score: 1

Yeah, I can always find all the old sparc stuff I want on pricewatch. :)

Sparc5 Compatability by ashpool7 · 2004-01-21 05:13 · Score: 1

From my experience, in order to use the 13W3 to HD15 converter on the Sparc5, your monitor has to support two things:

Sync-on-green
horizontal refresh of 75KHz+ (which typically means your vertical is going to be 75Hz+ too)

Had to go out and buy a new monitor cause my 1998 PGS couldn't handle it.

Re:Sparc5 Compatability by Octorian · 2004-01-21 06:06 · Score: 1

That's another thing to keep in mind. Sun machines tend to prefer refresh rates of 66Hz or 76Hz. (not 70Hz or 75Hz) Also, Sun's "default" resolution is 1152x900, but that's easy to change. In any case, finding PC monitors that support good resolutions at 76Hz is much harder than finding those that do it at 75Hz.

Console!!! by ChaosMt · 2004-01-21 05:15 · Score: 1

The reason I still use them is for remote management through a console server. Its WAY worth it. I've been using OpenBSD on sparcs for servers and routers and firewalls for some time, with GREAT results. I use obsd mainly b/c I'm lazy; I don't want to be patching or worrying about patchs and fixes all the time. I also LOVE the minimalist install, but it's easy and quick to make usable. I do use solaris at work for different reasons. But obsd gives new life to old systems. I STILL use my ye old sparc 2 as a great filewall, but with ssh, squid, clamav, and ipsec, it's time to upgrade. As for desktop, I still use solaris (9) with a PCi card in it.

Sersiously, I have a garage full of these waiting for use or parts. email me if ya wanna pick up some stuff, we'll see if we can work sometime out. I'll even consider trades, but I've come to prefer them for all of my needs. Cheap, reliable and usable.

--
Democrats and Republicans only disagree about how to enslave you

"coming alive again"??? by jdreed1024 · 2004-01-21 05:16 · Score: 4, Informative

First of all, it's an Ultra 5, not a Sparc 5. And they're not _that_ old. It's an UltraSparc processor running anywhere from 266 to 400 MHz. I really don't think it's that impressive to find something to do with it. Now if it was a SparcStation 5 (ca 1995), which was a 32-bit, 85MHz machine, I'd be a little more impressed. But not that much, since I know several people running NetBSD on their Sparc 5s and using them as routers for their home networks.

Next week: Slashdot impressed when someone figures out how to use an ancient PIII/700. Yeesh.

--
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.

Re:"coming alive again"??? by sterwill · 2004-01-21 05:36 · Score: 1

85 MHz? I've got a Sun 4/110 at home that still runs NetBSD pretty well. First Sparc you could fit on your desktop, and probably the slowest ever made.
Re:"coming alive again"??? by Endive4Ever · 2004-01-21 08:47 · Score: 1

A beowulf cluster of IPXs would be cool.

But really, one of the coolest things to run on a bunch of old Sparc boxes would be Amoeba. It's ported to Sparc, ya know.

Tannenbaum rulez, after all.

--
---

Anyone know aything about SGI machines? by dspyder · 2004-01-21 05:18 · Score: 1

I am going back to school for an engineering degree and some work in computational fluid dynamics. I had assumed I could just go to eBay and find an old SGI Indigo or something super cheap. Turns out all the cheap machines have catches (little to no memory, no drive trays, etc.) and the expensive ones don't really seem to explain why they're so expensive.

Looking at the specs, my leftover PCs running Linux seem to have a lot more power... but there is a ton of CFD software out there for SGIs.

So what do I need? Pay the bucks for a recent SGI? Make do with a cheap older one and run the calculations overnight? Just buy a Sparc? :)

--D

Re:Anyone know aything about SGI machines? by __past__ · 2004-01-21 05:40 · Score: 1

2nd-hand Purchasing Advice on Buying an Indy. Very informative site.

--
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Re:Anyone know aything about SGI machines? by dspyder · 2004-01-21 06:22 · Score: 1

Thanks for the link. I'd actually already checked out that site. It was pretty outdated, especially compared to modern PC specs and Linux' capabilities.

This site also had some interesting descriptions of the specific hardware, but what I found missing from most sites was "what do I really need, and what do I get for upgrading" especially as it relates to current PCs and graphics cards.

Thanks though!

--D
Re:Anyone know aything about SGI machines? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 10:21 · Score: 0

Above, say, $50, no SGI-machine of any age will outperform the PC you get for the same money.
I bought some anyway, for the coolfactor and to play with Irix.

What you "really need" depends on what you want to do. Upgradability-info should be findable, but generally upgrade-hardware is overpriced.

Ha by Cyno · 2004-01-21 05:20 · Score: 1

Ultra 5 need to be resurrected because their cheap PC harddrives fail after a few years of use. I personally had to fix 10 to 15 failed drives in a lab of about 30 Ultra 5s, most of them just got stuck.

Why people still trust Sun equipment is beyond me. I've come to the conclusion that all equipment will fail, plan for failure. And use cheap PC equipment because its easy to work with. Unless you absolutely NEED something like a SunFire 15k. But if money was no object I'd rather have an Altix or a mainframe depending on the requirements.

Bravo. I laughed, I cried. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:20 · Score: 0

I loved it. A Golden Globe for you, sir.

But I wanted to say

tl; dr

Ode To The Esoteric Computers by theManInTheYellowHat · 2004-01-21 05:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ah the day of the Toaster and Pizza Box
Purple Desksides and giant blue towers
The BeBox, Next Cube,
Many colors only some beige

Each would be quite different
Inside and out
From companies that made hardware and software

Now we have only a different case
The guts are the same

Sun servers by SenorFluffyPants · 2004-01-21 05:23 · Score: 1

I have a ton of Sun servers sitting around doing nothing. This includes 1 E4500, several E450s and a number of smaller machines. Make me an offer!

Re:Sun servers by f00zbll · 2004-01-21 05:47 · Score: 1

wowzers, you have a E4500? how many CPU's does it have and how much ram is on that sucker? By today's standards, an E4500 isn't a big deal, but it is still a nice system, especially if it is loaded up.
Re:Sun servers by SuiteSisterMary · 2004-01-21 05:50 · Score: 1

Fifty bucks for a working E450. Canadian. :-)

--
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Re:Sun servers by SenorFluffyPants · 2004-01-21 06:28 · Score: 1

10, count 'em 10, 400 mHZ CPUs with 4GB RAM. It's a pretty big boy.
Re:Sun servers by SenorFluffyPants · 2004-01-21 06:31 · Score: 1

Tempting offer. I'll mull it over...
Re:Sun servers by maverickbna · 2004-01-21 15:51 · Score: 1

50 bucks for a working E450. American. :)

--
You are great player! Present you with points!
Re:Sun servers by SenorFluffyPants · 2004-01-21 16:08 · Score: 1

That probably covers the cost of having one of the admins move it to the loading dock. Nevertheless, it IS tempting... I also need to check my exchange rates; am I doing better taking 50 American or 50 Canadian. Ah, the intricacies of international finance...

Re:Boring, not /. worthy poster by 74nova · 2004-01-21 05:36 · Score: 0, Troll

*disclaimer: this is based on the modding of "insightful" to the post. if it was intended to be funny, none of this applies.

your soap box is rotting away it's so old, why dont you just step off of it and realize taht you arent superior just because you are old. you can have superior knowledge because of lots more experience, that is great. knowing about old hardware for the sheer joy of calling me a whippersnapper is just getting, well, old.

it is most likely that i should humbly bow in your presence, ill admit that, but you requiring me to do so pisses me off.

well, crap, there goes some more karma

--
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy

Sparc5 Pizzabox by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:40 · Score: 0

If you need a high availability service (DNS comes to mind) with minimal downtime a "pizza box" is a great unit. It will run forever and a day until some hardware finally gives out. That may take a while too as they aren't super-mass produced shit, they're decently engineered equipment.

Amen!

I've got a 110MHz Sparc5 with 96MB memory that just keeps on running and running. The only thing that has ever given out are the old SCSI drives, and I've found old working spares for nearly free in junkpiles all around town (nobody seems to want 4 and 9GB narrow scsi drives anymore and they're glad to give them to me). I run my personal webserver/postfix/DNS on this old box at my house and it runs darn near silently and draws only about 45W of power.

Slashdot headline is incorrect by lindsayt · 2004-01-21 05:42 · Score: 1

This is not a "sparc 5" but an "ultra 5". To my knowledge there was no product called the "sparc 5" but I assumed the article was about an old sparcstation 5 coming live again, which is kind of kewl since that was some hardcore hardware when it was introduced in the early 1990s.

The ultra 5, a machine sun sold until last year, is neither very nostalgic nor very interesting - it was always a lowball machine by sun standards, bearing IDE disk with its larger Ultra 10 brother (they share the same motherboard, so they're more like twins) when everything else in the sun lineup came with SCSI and IDE was still pretty craptacular (remember PIO mode 4 with DMA transfers off? Ultra 5s do!) This is nothing interesting, beyond some guy's personal enjoyment.

--
I did not design this game/I did not name the stakes/I just happen to like apples/And I am not afraid of snakes-AniD

Jeez by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:44 · Score: 1, Insightful

I recently bought an Ultra 5 on eBay to do Solaris compiles on. It's not THAT old and is absolutely perfect for basic compiling. Solaris 7 is forward compatible with 8 and 9, it's 64 bit, runs the gnu tools fine. What more could you want. My customers running mega expensive Sun machines will never care/know that the software was compiled on a $200 machine from eBay...

It replaced a SparcStation 20 which was perfectly fine too, just not 64bit.

I you want nostalgia, let me break out my NeXT cube...

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by Kymermosst · 2004-01-21 05:45 · Score: 1

If you need a high availability service (DNS comes to mind) with minimal downtime a "pizza box" is a great unit. It will run forever and a day until some hardware finally gives out. That may take a while too as they aren't super-mass produced shit, they're decently engineered equipment.

I agree. I've got a SparcStation 10 running local DNS, DHCP and serving nfs. Oh, it also handles log data from network equipment, too.

9:34am up 83 days, 14:03, 1 user, load average: 0.15, 0.09, 0.03

The only reason it hasn't been up longer than 83 days is I have to blow the dust out of it about every 180 days.

I'm running Aurora Linux on it, and plan to upgrad e it with a 2nd processor one of these days.

--
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

OSU by 74nova · 2004-01-21 05:52 · Score: 1

same here at oklahoma state, i work at the arts and sciences web lab and we run ultra 10's, a 2 and a 5 for the unwashed masses of web pages. the real stuff sits on real hardware, but we host a lot of pages on this "old" hardware.

--
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy

To be more correct....... by jlk_71 · 2004-01-21 05:53 · Score: 1

The linked article is actually refering to the Ultra 5 and not the Sparc 5 as hinted by the title of the /. article. Personally, I prefer a sun machine without all the IDE. Call me old fashioned.

#jlk

OT: Negative, Captain by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:55 · Score: 0

Something tells me you own every Star Trek episode ever made on DVD & Beta.

I prefer reading early twentieth century lit, biographies, and history for books, and the Economist, New Yorker. and Atlantic Monthly, for periodicals. On television I'll take C-SPAN to CNN or FOX News, and CSI to Law & Order. Enterprise isn't worth my time, though there were a few good years of TNG I enjoyed way back when. As for food, I'll take Brie or Bleu cheese with wine over Doritos and beer any day. Not to put down others who enjoy Star Trek with Doritos and beer, but those are just my tastes. --M

Sparc5 vs. Ultra5 by BookRead · 2004-01-21 05:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

SparcStation5 -- built like tank. 32 bits. SBUS cards.

SparcUltra5 -- built like cheap PC. 64 bits. PCI cards.

Used both, Used both as servers. Getting cards into the Sparc5 could be a real pain. But once in there they'd never give you any trouble. The Ultra5 struck me as a bit cheap, construction-wise. Which was a total 180 from their traditional "drop it on a concrete floor and the connectors stay stuck togeher. While Dells and such had snap-in parts the Ultra5 has little screws and sharp edges. Felt kind of loose.

Linux on a good PC pretty much killed my desire for Solaris. Never liked CDE, never like premium prices for simple add-ons like memory. Maybe useful for a special workstations but the Ultra5 was an attempt to steal into the PC market. I'm nostalgic for Sparc5 but not the Ultra5.

Best reason to have an Ultra-5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 05:59 · Score: 0

The nice thing about an Ultra-5 is that you can use it to develop and test for the sun4u architecture, and be well-assured that your work and your tests are valid on the big sun4u boxes that it's targetted for. Unfortunately, most of the -5's are PCI bus. But that turns out to be ok for a whole lot of applications.

Alive again? I've been running one since '94... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:02 · Score: 1, Informative

My home system has been running on a 70Mhz/170Mhz SS5 since '94. I have IPX's that have been in continuous service since '94/'95 as well.

Why are PC people so amazed at systems that regularly run and have a useful life of 10+ years?

The SS5 will remain a home server till I can't get replacement SCSI drives for it.

The oldest Sun I've seen working was about 15 years old and only stopped because the hard drives for it were no longer made...

Just because PC's crap out after a few years doesn't mean all computers are that way!

Re:Alive again? I've been running one since '94... by iggymanz · 2004-01-21 07:07 · Score: 1

Actually, this article was not about SparcStation 5 but Ultra 5, a relatively new (5-1/2 years) 64 bit machine, that's really a UltraSparc chip in a PC type architecture (ugh!). My old SparcStation 5 is 70MHz with 32MB of memory, and I put a new 9GB SCSI disk in it 2 years ago with a SCA to 50 pin SCSI adapter. Runs OpenBSD 3.3 very well (it was really bogged down with Solaris 2.5) One day the battery backed PROM is going to crap out though, hopefully that will still be fixable when it happens.
Re:Alive again? I've been running one since '94... by b1t+r0t · 2004-01-21 07:27 · Score: 1

You can buy a replacement chip (it's CMOS RAM, not a PROM, by the way) and use Open Firmware commands to reload the replacement. Or you can just live with reloading it every time you cycle power and leave it on a UPS to minimize power cycling.

--

--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Re:Alive again? I've been running one since '94... by iggymanz · 2004-01-21 14:46 · Score: 1

I was looking at prices, for $45 one can replace that battery/clock/NVRAM chip. Funny for that much I can also get another machine on eBay with 110MHz, 128MB RAM but its chip could konk out at any time also

Re:Boring, not /. worthy poster by operagost · 2004-01-21 06:03 · Score: 1

Your shift keys are located on either side of your keyboard, second row from the bottom.

Whippersnapper.

--

Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.

OT - Ad hijacking on article site by mccrew · 2004-01-21 06:13 · Score: 1

Off topic, sorry. What is it that is running on the site with the article that "hijacks" certain keywords and turns them into advertising links to EBay and other sites?

I noticed that if I read the article on Windows using the excellent Crazy Browser, an IE derivitative, many of the words in the article are double underlined and links to e-commerce sites. Viewing the article with Mozilla, no such hijacking occurs.

And more to the point: how to turn it off?

--
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.

Re:OT - Ad hijacking on article site by bhima · 2004-01-21 08:36 · Score: 1

A truly offensive thing OSnews recently started doing! Has kept me away...

--
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Ultra5: meh. by otis+wildflower · 2004-01-21 06:17 · Score: 1

The Ultra10 would be a better choice for the expansion-minded, after adding a proper SCSI controller of course. The reason I like the U5/U10 is the cheap memory upgrades: prior to that Sun would require somewhat proprietary memory that even Kingston would charge too much for...

You want cult? Try a Sparc20 4-cpu.. Or a Sparc10 if you still have an ISDN connection... Last time I checked a 2x90 sparc20 was going for $9.95 on eBay...

Re:Boring, not /. worthy poster by 74nova · 2004-01-21 06:18 · Score: 1

where is the apostrophe key? oops, i had to use the shift for the question mark, didnt i? there it is again!

of course, all in good fun, you old fart

--
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy

in other words by kesteloot · 2004-01-21 06:21 · Score: 1

the author is selling an ultra 5 on ebay and wants to jack up the price.

The power of 64 bits...... by Billly+Gates · 2004-01-21 06:25 · Score: 1

... with the speed of a pentium1.

--
http://saveie6.com/

Ultra 5's are underrated by Yonder+Way · 2004-01-21 06:30 · Score: 1

[magnus@bluegill magnus]$ uptime 1:18pm up 124 days, 20:14, 2 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01

A lot of Sun lemmings here will diss the Ultra 5 because it is one of the most PC-like Suns you'll ever find. I picked up one a few years ago for $300. 333MHz processor (2MB cache), 256MB RAM, etc. First thing I did was rip out the 9GB HDD and replace with a 40GB model. This alone did much to eliminate the performance bottlenecks this model is prone to. I could just as easily have put in a 9GB SCSI drive and controller I had around but the capacity was more important at the time.

Originally it ran OpenBSD, which works pretty well on this hardware. I needed some modern conveniences like PAM and NSS so I upgraded to Aurora Linux. I'm still running Aurora on that box now, and as my uptime posted up there will attest it is a stable box. The last time it was booted was when I re-racked the server on some new industrial shelving I got at home.

I'm very happy with it. Right now it has a few primary uses:

File Server - Running NFS and Samba, my home directories and other shared files can be reached from any computer in the house (current count a little over 2 dozen).
Squid - I have all my web browsers using this machine as a proxy server.
syslog - All my *NIX boxen send copies of their syslog events here.
DHCP/DNS/NTP - These services could probably run on a pocket calculator, or maybe my old VAX, but the Ultra 5 is seriously underworked.

I have quite a few Sun and other oddball machines. I manage quite a few Sun & Linux boxen at $WORK. I rather like my lowly Ultra 5 and think that it deserves more credit than it has been given to date.

yes yes yes by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:34 · Score: 0

But he was correct to point out that the SS5 lacks an MBUS processor slot. Whatever. Thanks for your reply though. --M

My U5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:36 · Score: 0

Well, I saw one on usenet for sale, and called the guy. He was selling an UNOPENED U5 with UNOPENED 17 inch monitor for "best offer". I offered him $75 TODAY, he accepted.

It came with an opened box of Solaris 8 as well.

Well, I pulled the 8 gig drive and put in a 40 (I had problems with my 160 gig drives working, unfortunately).

At that time (1/2 year ago), I was really into Mythtv. I tried all the flavors of Linux and BSD, but couldn't get both high resolution and sound working. So I went back to Solaris 8.

Next, I added a WinGo/TV card. . .and a SunPCI II card.

At this time, my U5 is running both Solaris 8 and Linux 2.4. Under Solaris 8 I'm running the KLH10 emulator with TOPS-20. Under the linux system I'm running the SIMH emulator with TOPS-10.

4 OS's on 1 desktop. Oh, and BTW=> the TV works great under Solaris.

Beat that, geeks.

*yawn* by Brian+Kendig · 2004-01-21 06:37 · Score: 1

A Sun Ultra 5, 333MHz, 256MB RAM, and it's news that somebody got this 'old' thing running again?

Yawn. Wake me up when somebody recycles some *truly* old hardware.

A while ago I ran Debian Linux on a Macintosh Quadra 700 (25MHz 68040) with 40MB RAM and used it as a gateway and a web server. I recently found some old Usenet posts I wrote ten years ago about trying to get NetBSD running on my Mac IIvx (33MHz 68030, 8MB RAM), and I still have the machine, so I'm thinking as a project I may pick up the work I started ten years ago and finish setting it up as a NetBSD file/web server, just to prove it can be done.

Re:*yawn* by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 07:32 · Score: 0

Then write it up, get it published on slashdot, and watch people as obnoxious as you make obnoxious comments about it. Common, it'll be fun!

So what? I have two running Linux and FreeBSD. by borgheron · 2004-01-21 06:37 · Score: 1

This is no big deal, really. GJC

--
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep

64 bit nostalgia by Drylnn · 2004-01-21 06:40 · Score: 1

Another option for 64 bit computing is to get one of the SGI Indigo2s with one of the newer cpus. I have the one with the r10000 running irix, and it's a great toy to play around with. Only drives me nuts when it needs the 64 bit dependancies and I can't find them on my irix cds. But it's fully 64 bit (or can be, if you run the 64 bit version of Irix) and I got mine for like 80 dollars on ebay.

Re:heheh by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:46 · Score: 0

The fact that this "news piece" passed through so many hands with the same glaring error echoes why OSS will be destined to remain a science fair project or hobby. Many eyes can still miss an obvious error.

Damn hippies. No wonder you can't keep steady work.

A smidge. by solios · 2004-01-21 06:49 · Score: 1

Dunno what you'd be doing with them, but I bought an Indigo2 with the CD drive, a 2g hard drive, IRIX 6.5 installed, and 576 megs of ram for 100$ on ebay. The only thing I needed was a monitor converter. The machine is a 200mhz r10k, 64bit, solid impact graphics, built in ethernet. Given the fact that it's fairly beef for a base indigo2, I could resell it for a bit more than I paid for it. But it's this insane, eye-melting PURPLE and looks really cool!

I've seen o2s (the little speedbump things) for ~100$- usually with the NO HARD DRIVE OMFG!!!! stipulation, or the NO OS!!!!! stipulation- and IRIX media goes for an arm and a leg on ebay. :| According to hardcore SGIheads, Octanes are Freaking Cheap on ebay- cheap by SGI pricing- 400-600$ for a base unit, if you're lucky. Though 100$ seems to be the going rate for SGI systems on ebay- assuming you're willing to pay out the nose for shipping.

Given the price of PC hardware these days, your main reasons for an SGI would be the 1337 factor, and, as you said, the ton of CFD software that's available.

Me, I'm a graphics dweeb. I'll eventually get around to turning my indigo into a BZFlag box. :-)

Re:A smidge. by Drylnn · 2004-01-21 07:00 · Score: 1

Yeah, the SGIs are pretty sweet. I picked up an Indigo2 (purple) with Irix 6.5.17 installed, the r10k chip, 384 megs of ram, 20 GB drive, the built in ethernet AND the EIO addon 10/100 network card and Impact graphics for about 80 bucks. It's just great. It's no speed demon, but it's fast enough to use as a daily desktop. Irix media is pretty expensive, but luckily, a friend of mine worked for SGI and had Irix cds just lying around. It's pretty sweet and a great way to learn a lot about 64 bit os's

Sparc5s in Austin by F.O.Dobbs · 2004-01-21 06:53 · Score: 1

If anyone in Austin Texas wants a pair of working Sparc 5s, respond to matthewhray at yahoo com and you can have them for $30. 2 working harddrives and 192 megs of RAM between them. One's been cannibalized for the other, but last I checked they both work fine (Debian is installed on it). Plus a Sun->VGA adapter.

Too lazy for ebay,
F.O.Dobbs

Sparc 5 == 32bit, Ultra 5 == 64bit by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 06:54 · Score: 0

I wish the comments on the main page were subject to moderation. Oh how often they would be "-5 IgnorantButSpeakingAnyway". :)

Not bad... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 07:11 · Score: 0

Not bad, but I'll do you one better: Anysystem.com I've had great experiences with them and you can get better pricing than on the website by calling them direct.

Ultra 5 as a personal router/firewall by Spirilis · 2004-01-21 07:17 · Score: 1

I use mine as a firewall & router for my personal network, which unfortunately sits on dialup. It works great with IPFilter (http://coombs.anu.edu.au/ipfilter/)
and Solaris 9.

I intend to use it with a cable modem after I move elsewhere and get broadband. I have a 2nd PCI NIC installed, a Linksys I bought for $5 off eBay, using drivers from here-- http://garrett.damore.org/software/ethernet/suppor t.shtml
configured as 'afe0'. Although I don't currently use it, so I haven't really "stress tested" it yet.

--
the real at&t mix

Anybody still running SunOS on a SparcStation 2? by SimHacker · 2004-01-21 07:38 · Score: 1

I still refuse to downgrade my SparcStation 2 pizza box to Slowlaris. It still runs trusty old SunOS 4.1.2. I bought through the Sun employee discount program (60% off) in 1991. Unfortunately the 60% off was considered a taxable "benefit", so after I paid for computer, they surprized me with a bill for the taxes on the 60% I saved, which was more than a whole paycheck! Owch.

Of course the non-rechargable battery in the idprom wore out after a few years, it lost its identity, and has to be rebooted manually from the Forth firmware. (I think it was the first SparcStation with Mitch Bradley's wonderful Open Boot roms built in.)

I'd sure like to find a good SS2 emulator that runs on a modern computer, so I can run all my old SunOS software without hauling out the old pizzabox.

-Don

--
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com

SPARC IPC. by generic · 2004-01-21 07:45 · Score: 1

I still use a sparc IPC. Runs a webserver I wrote in C and servers a personal portal for me at work.

--
Microsoft aggravates my tourettes syndrome.

Coming alive again? by mnmn · 2004-01-21 07:56 · Score: 1

We've been using the Ultra5 here for a little while. The IDE is of crap speed, but I have an adaptec card and 9gb SCSI disk thats doing a good job. Memory for this thing is expensive and I'm still stuck with the original 128MB which doesnt do you wonders with Solaris 9.

Ive been trying to justify buying a 333MHz cpu with 2MB cache for it, but I'd rather spend the money buying lotsa ram for my 6 sparcstation5s. Theyre cheap, perform real well with the SCSI disks and with netbsd runs blazingly fast.

Sure the Ultra5 is 64-bit but beside high-precision numbers you cant use it in any way to beat a Pentium2. Vamp it up for lots of money to equal a Pentium2 300MHz, and youve spent enough to buy a Pentium4. This is in addition to the fact that most PCI cards are useless in the Ultra5 including VGA cards.

To be fair, I DID run doom, quake2, scummvm and genesis/neogeo emulators under it, and it HAS been my home firewall and web server for the past year.

--
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky

Cheaply? Pah! by Colitis · 2004-01-21 08:19 · Score: 1

"Like the article's author points out, if you really want 64-bit computing, it's available cheaply on eBay."

Or expensively at apple.com.

Seriously, I love my Dual G5, I really do. But by golly did it cost a ton of money.

going off topic - Monitor for HP 9000 715/100XC by Ada95 · 2004-01-21 08:44 · Score: 1

Does anyone know if any Sun workstation monitors will work with a HP 9000 715/100XC? I found a NEC 17" monitor with "sync-on-green" that works on my HP 9000 712/60 at 1024x768@70Hz but the 715's video card seems to require 1280x1024@75Hz sync-on-green. My NEC monitor can't handle that and HP workstation monitors are much harder to find than Sun monitors.

Re:going off topic - Monitor for HP 9000 715/100XC by calidoscope · 2004-01-21 17:27 · Score: 1

The Sun monitors should work - they typically run 1280x1024@76Hz. Dunno about the video pin-outs
The 9000/700 series were nice machines - HP-UX was very stable, and of course CDE is essentially a slightly updated VUE.

--
A Shadeless room is a brighter room.

SPARC!=SPARCstation by SHEENmaster · 2004-01-21 08:49 · Score: 1

SPARC5 means nothing, Sun5 refers to Sun's next MAJOR improvement over the current systems, and Ultra5 refers to the correct machine.

I do knoow, but I don't care.

--
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

freebsd 5.2 baby.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 08:57 · Score: 0

yesh, I know its dead, but it gives me such a warm fuzzy to be running FreeBSD 5.2 on my sparc64. I just wish they would port over running linux binaries on it.. ;(

-DB

Re: SparcStation IPC by Crackez · 2004-01-21 09:06 · Score: 1

I have a SPARCstation IPC(25MHz, 40MB ram, 400MB hdd, 10mbit nic), i'd love to get ahold of some more sun hardware, really a 13w3 -> svga adapter would be cool, then i could run X11 on it, that would make it really bad ass... Right now i just use a wyse-60 on it(yea for Mac modem cables)...

Also, I Use my Ultra 5 alot. I have a SCSI card in it though, and a model 711 drive enclosure for it. I need some more of those spud drive sleds for it though so i can throw more storage in the beast(those seagate drives are f'ing loud)... Oh yeah, and i have a DDS3 tape drive for it, this machine is sweet. Oh, and my framebuffer runs in 24bit mode too! It's a bad ass machine.

In fact, we have a Sun Blade 100 here at school to dick around on, and that thing is slow as balls compared to my ultra 5. Sure it has a 500MHz cpu, but the disk is too slow. Maybe my Ultra5 would be too, but those SCSI disks really help out...

Sun hardware is great stuff, the person who wrote that article sounds alot like a whiner to me, the sun keyboard is awsome. I have fairly large hands so it fits me well. Plus it really messes with my friends when they come over to use it since they are all used to PC keyboards. Actually a few of my friends are envious, they want one now too... It is designed to run indefinitely. It's hard to say that about lots of PC hardware.

Now, their software on the other hand, what can you say... it's getting better, but solaris is total pain until you get used to it. pkg-get is nice, but still not as smooth as apt-get, which it's trying to emulate...

Mac IIfx running A/UX? by ikekrull · 2004-01-21 09:06 · Score: 1

I have one of these in the store-room - my monitor died, but when i find another mac monitor she'll be up and running again.

I got Apache and Perl running on it, and it was a useful web server.

A/UX is an ancient and strange UNIX, but it has MacOS 6/7 compatibility, bundled X-Windows, and the IIfx is a pretty nice box for its age - I have 3 graphics cards in it.

Its interesting - Apple had the equivalent of MacOS X ('Real' UNIX underpinning the 'Classic' MacOS environment) over 10 years ago, but dropped it completely, before buying the same thing back off NeXT, at great expense and calling it 'New'

--
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long

Re:Mac IIfx running A/UX? by Brian+Kendig · 2004-01-21 09:15 · Score: 1

I also have a IIfx in my collection, and I'd love the chance to try A/UX on it sometime, but I haven't stumbled across a CD of it yet.

If you lived anywhere near Orlando Florida, I'd be happy to trade you a spare Apple 13" display (the kind which is designed to 'go with' the IIfx) for a copy of A/UX. :)

For more info see the Sun System Handbook... by nuclearmoose · 2004-01-21 09:16 · Score: 1

Lots of good info here:
http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/

Keep in mind, the Ultra 5 & 10 share the same moterboard. I would recommend going with the 10 over the 5 since it offers a bit more room for expansion, and you have more graphics (UPA) options.

Ultra 5/10:
http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/System s/U5/U5 .html
http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/System s/U10/U 10.html

SparcStation 5:
http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/S S5/S S5.html

Future Mouse by xchino · 2004-01-21 09:17 · Score: 1

I got a Sparc 20 from work, and I have to say I was amazed by it. I was probably about 14 when these things came out, and didn't even have my first CD rom yet, but this thing had an optical mouse. Now it may not have been optical, I'm leaning towards magnetic induction due to the mousepad that is required to use the mouse, but there was no mouseball and that really amazed me :) Currently I have this thing running a Gentoo live cd (compiling was taking wayt oo long, over a week into it and still no sign of finishing) acting as my music box.

Anybody know exactly what kind of mouse it was that came with the Sparc20's?

--
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.

Re:Future Mouse by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 11:53 · Score: 0

Older optical mice relied on patterns in them special mouse mats to figure out where they were.

REALLY coming alive by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 09:25 · Score: 0

hey! this story's about an Ultra 5 (64 bit, modern etc)

i've just 'brought back to life' a SparcStation 5
and 2 SparcStation10's (NetBSD on all of them)

thats REAL computing. none of this modern 64bit junk! ;-)

It's an ULTRA sparc. by op00to · 2004-01-21 10:03 · Score: 1

There's a huge difference between a sparc 5 and an ULTRAsparc 5.

Of Solaris wishes and SCO dreams... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 10:43 · Score: 0

Hey Sun, we know what you think of GNU/Linux. Unix will be back. Really, it will! Everything is beautiful! Don't worry! Be happy! Customers will return to Solaris one day! After all, if schwartz said it, it must be true.

Schwartz, however, sees the fad of Linux wearing off in big businesses.

"There will be a transition back to Solaris," he said

and even scott is a believer:

The "fad will wear off, and big business will come back to solaris".

Sun, don't worry, everything is great. Everybody else should wake up and smell the java.

older sparcstations by GunFodder · 2004-01-21 11:09 · Score: 1

The only Sun workstations at my school that had those funky metal optical mousepads were a lab full of original Sparcstations and another lab full of Sun 3/50s. The Sparcstations seemed OK at the time, but an Ultra 5 would run circles around either machine. Those goddamn Sun 3/50s were painful to use, and that was back in '94.

depends on function by GunFodder · 2004-01-21 11:26 · Score: 1

I was using a sparc 2 as a workstation for about a month in '97 and it was a very poor experience. That box just couldn't keep up with the graphical apps of the time, expecially Netscape. Then I got an Ultra 1 and that was worlds better. But by 2000 or so that machine was virtually unusable for graphical apps (especially Netscape), so I got an Ultra 10. That machine was worlds better than the Ultra 1, and by inference at least two orders of magnitude better than the sparcstation.

Maybe a sparcstation is OK for some extremely computationally efficient server tasks but for workstation use I'll take a faster CPU, more memory and a better graphics card every time.

Re:depends on function by ShaggyZet · 2004-01-21 14:43 · Score: 1

Sounds to me like you had a netscape problem. Netscape was (and is to some extent) a bloated pig of an application. I've also always found my sparc 2 to behave much better with it's intended OS, SunOS 4 (aka Solaris 1).
I switched from emacs to vi for the same reason. I was sharing /usr via NFS over a 10Mb hub back when disk space was expensive and I was a college student. emacs took forever to load, vi didn't. I use vi to this day.

Last job by ocie · 2004-01-21 12:00 · Score: 1

I had one of these and my boss had an ultra 20. Somehow he just couldn't figure out why the server-class Intel motherboards we were getting were so much faster than his couple year old ultra 20. Like the fact that it was from Sun was supossed to cancel out the effects of Moore's law.

--
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere

What dou you need 64 bits for? by Un+pobre+guey · 2004-01-21 12:01 · Score: 1

The max RAM you can put in is 512 MB. There are 4 memory slots, and they must be installed in pairs.

Then what's the point? When I get my hands on an Athlon64, that little bastard will have 8 or 16 Gb of RAM, and I will run some seriously large data analysis on it. That's what you need 64 bits for, not as "a way to woo the ladies."

I shudder to visualize such ladies as would start pooning at the sight of a Sparc 5.

Re:A Sparc 5 is not an Ultra 5 - MBUS? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 12:22 · Score: 0

The SS5 did NOT have MBUS! It had the CPU stuck right on the board.

SS10 and SS20 had MBUS.

Clue up.

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 13:45 · Score: 0

It will run forever and a day until some hardware finally gives out.

Just stop for a minute and think about what you just wrote. ANY piece of hardware will run great until the day it breaks down. Apart from your statement being completely fucking pointless, what makes the RAM, hard drives, cooling fans etc etc in a Sun workstation magically any better than the same parts, sources from the same manufacturer from the same production lines in an x86 system? Does Scott McNealy bless each commodity component individually before it rolls off the production line to imbue it with some special invulnerability aura? Or in fact are you just full of shit and a Sun workstation has exactly the same failure rate as every other piece of mass-produced electronic equipment? For every 'magical' Sun SS20 stuck in a closet running a DNS server somewhere, I'll be willing to bet there are 50 times that number of crusty old Pentium 166 or AMD K6-300 systems doing the same thing running Linux...with the same hard drives, RAM, network chips, CD-ROMs, video chips and cooling fans. Just without that little Sun badge that you think adds a +5 invulnerability spell

This is just like talking to Mac zealots, but at least Apple looks like it will be around in 5 years time. So sorry we can't say the same for Sun.

sparc5 vs. ultra5 by UnixRevolution · 2004-01-21 13:50 · Score: 1

Important distinction here, between a Sparc 5 and an Ultra 5. A Sparcstation 5 is powered by a supersparc processor, somewhere between 70 and 110 MHz (or thereabouts), and is 32-bit. The Ultra 5 is powered by a 64-bit Ultrasparc series processor, which runs at speeds upwards of 160MHz. Huge distinction.

It's like confusing a Macintosh SE/30 and a Power Mac G3.

--
You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.

Re:Sparc 5 == 32bit, Ultra 5 == 64bit by Un+pobre+guey · 2004-01-21 14:50 · Score: 1

I second the motion! "Ignorant But Speaking Anyway" sounds like an excellent moderation tag. And yes, I have been guilty of it myself, for those who will post the usual "thank you oh enlightened smartass".

Re:It's not Sparc 5, it's Ultra 5! by grub · 2004-01-21 15:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

You're retarded.

Well maintained and engineered stuff lasts longer. Works for Sun, Mac, SGI, IBM etc. Put your "Taiwan-made MoBo and CPU" against it for years and see what lasts longer on average.

Now that I have your attention, Mr. Expert, please post non-AC with your real-life stories and I'll counter them.

--
Trolling is a art,

Re:Anybody still running SunOS on a SparcStation 2 by iggymanz · 2004-01-21 16:01 · Score: 1

just pick up another 32 bit sparc box on eBay for $25 - $50, even the sparcstation 5 and 10 and 20 are going in that range (2-4x the performance of your ss2), and some have SunOS 4.1.x loaded.

Looking at one right now by desitter · 2004-01-21 20:51 · Score: 0

I am simply looking at my trusty 'ol ultra sparc 5 with renewed confidence: my university is not the only one who still uses 'm!

Re:Anybody still running SunOS on a SparcStation 2 by SimHacker · 2004-01-21 21:28 · Score: 1

The point is, I'd much rather have a virtual sparcstation running in software on my laptop anywhere I go, than any kind of real sparcstation that I have to lug around and plug into the wall.

-Don

--
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com

usb? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-22 03:13 · Score: 0

we have plenty of these lying around at work..
I might grab one for a gateway machine for home, and put debain on it..

is there usb support and a usb port(adapter) for this box? (DSL modem)

need help w/ Solaris on Sparc! by ccf · 2004-01-22 08:49 · Score: 1

Here at my office we've got a legacy system from the 80s now running on an UltraSPARC-IIi. We had a clone system set up for backup and then the original's HD died so now there's just the clone, and we've been having some trouble getting the original going again. We're running Solaris 7 (Oct 1998 release) on the working machine, but I've only got the install media for the next version, the Aug 1999 release. The legacy system appears to be sensitive to the underlying OS and I want to make an exact clone. If anybody has Solaris 7 (SunOS 5.7) Oct 1998 install disks, I'll make an offer on 'em. Otherwise if you know anything about Sparcs, Solaris, etc and you can help me, there'd be a reward. Contact me at clark AT thirteen DOT net.

--

Structured data. Structured searching. The Enzyme Project

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