Build Your Own iPod Battery

Sorry, that looks awful by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 22:11 · Score: 4, Funny

Why would I cary around such an ugly thing? I'd rather just buy a 2nd iPod.

good luck... by tsunamifirestorm · 2004-02-28 22:12 · Score: 5, Funny

explaining your stack of batteries when it shows up on the x-ray at an airport. ;)

Re:good luck... by torpor · 2004-02-28 22:21 · Score: 5, Informative

batteries are a known quantum in the world of travel security. scanners are designed to know what they are and how they're used.

contrary to popular belief, batteries do not look like explosive devices.

this diy-playing-card-battery-charger might raise a few eyebrows for its 'concealment' factor, but then, you don't have to use a playing-card box. you could just as easily use something else that actually looks like a plastic case designed for carrying batteries.

this is a clever hack, anyway. the schematics are where the value is - whats the bet it won't be long before you can get these plastic cases in the akihabra back-streets, selling as 'cheap firewire-device rechargers' or whatever ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:good luck... by baryon351 · 2004-02-28 22:27 · Score: 4, Funny

contrary to popular belief, batteries do not look like explosive devices.

Excellent! I'll make an explosive device that looks like a battery then.

Foolproof!
Re:good luck... by mabinogi · 2004-02-28 22:45 · Score: 4, Funny

yes..but the most common component in homemade explosives is.......explosive material.
which there wont be any of...
so there wont be a problem.

--
Advanced users are users too!
Re:good luck... by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-02-28 22:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

Contrary to popular belief, airport security personnel aren't exactly smart.

Two recent examples for you:

1. A passenger from Germany who was stopped and detained for having wires protruding from her jacket. It was nothing more than an ordinary electric jacket as used by bikers for the last twenty-odd years but that didn't stop the security guys from treating the passenger like a terrorist.

An example of them getting it wrong by going overboard.

2. A Sudanese man who was stopped at Heathrow with five live bullets in his coat. The man had just travelled from Washington DC, and the fact that someone was carrying live ammunition onto an aircraft was totally missed by the security in DC. So, security at Washington is so tight that you can get munitions onto a transatlantic aircraft without being spotted.

An example of them getting it wrong by making basic mistakes.

Remember, these are the people who insist on everything going through an x-ray machine, even materials that are highly sensitive to rays and easily damaged, because they know best and because the machines are "harmless".

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Re:good luck... by JaredOfEuropa · 2004-02-28 22:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

explaining your stack of batteries when it shows up on the x-ray at an airport. ;)
They seem to be able to tell batteries and bombs apart on the X-ray (at least I hope so). I had no trouble with security when I took a dive-light through... basically a flashlight encased in a big, heavy, watertight aluminum casing... the thing looks exactly like a pipe bomb. They asked me to open it up and show the innards, which I couldn't, since it's all sealed tight. They asked me to turn it on, and again I couln't comply: you're supposed to remove the bulb from these things when moving them.

Then they just waved me through.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:good luck... by easter1916 · 2004-02-28 23:18 · Score: 3, Funny

An explosive device that looks like a battery? Brilliant! BRILLIANT!
Re:good luck... by TheRaven64 · 2004-02-28 23:56 · Score: 5, Funny

I'll make an explosive device that looks like a battery then.
Do you work for Nokia, by any chance?

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:good luck... by torpor · 2004-02-29 00:12 · Score: 5, Interesting

Anecdotal evidence at best. Answer me this question smartie:

How many thousands and millions of times did Airport Security Personnel accurately spot and identify a battery/electronic posession of a passenger and determine that it was in fact safe?

Just because you've 'heard of this in the news' doesn't mean that your analytical powers are sufficient to accurately determine reality in a scenario you've had no direct experience with. You're not looking at the entire scene here: count the success as well as the failure and then compare.

Personally, I've known quite a few very intelligent security people, and had no problems with them whatsoever.

Your two anecdotes prove your argument, though. Sharp...

Remember, these are the people who insist on everything going through an x-ray machine, even materials that are highly sensitive to rays and easily damaged, because they know best and because the machines are "harmless".

"I'll ignore the fact that most 'x-ray machines' installed at major airports are in fact far more than 'x-ray devices' and do more than just 'x-ray' things, and imply that because those passengers (such as myself) are so smart, they're bringing super-sensitive materials with them through the airport security screeners, who are all sooooo stoooopid ..."

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:good luck... by Wuffle · 2004-02-29 01:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

On a flight from LA to San Francisco I recently took all i was taking was my rucksack as hand luggage, in it was my digital camera, a 12-pack of Duracell batteries with only eight still in the packet, four being in my camera, and my iPod and a few other bits and bobs.

My bag got flagged by the security staff and so first I was ordered to sit down in some waiting area type place while they swabbed my bag (I presume for trace explosives or something) and put it through the scanner again.

I was then given a pat-down body search, my shoes had to be taken off, put through the scanner and then swabbed, my bag was then taken away by one of the staff and I was told to wait while they tested that the batteries were actually batteries or something. I wasn't told, just ordered to sit and wait.

So after 30mins of my time wasted they decided to let me go on my merry way. What really got on my nerves is that there were no 'please' or 'thankyous' uttered by any of them, I felt as if I had done something wrong or was being treated badly just for having batteries in my bag.
Re:good luck... by torpor · 2004-02-29 01:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Anecdotal? Are you fucking kidding me?

Yes, anecdotal. No, I'm not fucking kidding you. You're being an idiot for making such blanket assessments about the security industry on the basis of "what you've heard in the news". Look it up. (Hint: Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis)

Your assessment that security people are stupid is based on anecdotal evidence - i.e. NON-SCIENTIFIC

Were it non-anecdotal, you would include, along with your 'counter-view', the observation that, in fact, countless thousands and thousands of 'potential battery-bomb incidents' actually get correctly assessed as being non-threatening.

You would include the hundreds and thousands of times when cameras and film are actually put through the machine, and do actually survive. It might surprise you, but technology has changed. There are safe scanning machines on the market, and in active use, pretty much everywhere.

Your system of logic is flawed, and derived from a society driven by controversy and conflict, tabloid-idealized notions. That is not the way life actually is...

And in fact, yes, I do happen to know quite a few travelling photographers, many of them businessmen (as I am myself), and I have also filled 4 passports in my life, in my travels. So yes, in fact, I do have a lot of experience in this matter and I do know what I'm talking about.

Your ideal is flawed.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:good luck... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-29 01:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

Excellent! I'll wait for integrated cold fusion battery for iPod. Then I'll be arrested for some form of an atomic weapons violation.

BTW, did you know that sending zalmiak candies from the EU to the US is quite difficult? Zalmiak is ammonium chloride so it's made of ammonia and chlorine which are hazardous chemicals. I know a Finnish girl who tried to send zalmiak to her friend in the US. The clerk at local post office said that sending zalmiak to the US is not possible without a specific licence. Nice! One more terrorist girl stopped again!

Some (non-rechargeable) batteries also contain ammonium chloride so maybe it is equally difficult to send batteries to the US. Or maybe Apple iPod loaded with these batteries is a diabolic doom device! MWAHAHAHAHAA!
Re:good luck... by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-02-29 02:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

There's a difference between asking someone a few questions, scanning their coat, checking their other clothing and carry-on luggage and that of any travelling companions and automatically treating someone like they've committed a crime and giving them the "bright lights in their eyes" treatment for daring to wear a common piece of clothing.

On the other hand, there's the total incompetence of allowing a passenger to travel with live ammo.

I'd rather live in a world where fuck-ups were of the first kind than of the latter kind but they're both pretty good examples that security at airports isn't perfect. What good is the vigilance that flags up so many false positives if the actual positives are totally missed?

And on top of that, some of the security systems are inherently flawed. Someone recently tried entering Osama bin Laden's name on the US fly/no-fly list only to find that the US's number one target was cleared to travel. Now we all know that bin Laden isn't going to be flying into the US on a commercial flight using his own name any time soon but it's just another indicator that the systems that the US has put in place to prevent potential hijackers from boarding aircraft isn't totally up to the job.

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Re:good luck... by ericspinder · 2004-02-29 03:09 · Score: 4, Informative

I had a simuliar problem with 4 AA batteries, loose at the bottom, of my laptop case. They all lined up neatly in a side pocket. This got me flagged, they even showed me what it looks like. They were really professional about it and it only "cost" me 5 minutes and the two-inch mini screwdriver I also had in the bag (which was not flagged by the x-ray machine operator).
I would suggest that anyone carrying extra batteries for a personal device, put them into the change cup.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...
What highjacked those planes was not box cutters, but fear, weak doors and historial compliance to anyone. The Heroes of Flight 93 showed what really happens in the "new reality".

--
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
Re:good luck... by iocat · 2004-02-29 03:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

Wow, on a flight recently from LA to SFO the same thing happened to me! Oh, and on a flight from San Diego to OAK. Oh, and a flight from SEA to OAK. And SFO to DTW! Man, it was like I WAS BEING RANDOMLY SELECTED FOR THE INCREASED SECURITY SCREENING! This happens to hundreds of people every day, sometimes randomly, sometimes psuedo-randomly (like if you have a one way ticket, or swarthy skin and a beard, like me). This wasn't some dumb screener being afraid of your batteries, it was total standard procedure. Unless there was a backup at the airport it typically adds like maybe five minutes, tops, to the security screening.
In my experience, the TSA people have always been unfailingly polite, but I suspect that's because I start out by being polite to them, for two reasons. First, why not be polite to everyone? Second, Why be rude to someone who is capable of making your life miserable and leaving you with no recourse?

--
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
Re:good luck... by Drew+Frezell · 2004-02-29 04:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Did you know that salt is made out of sodium chloride so it's made of sodium and chlorine which are hazardous chemicals. I don't think it should matter since the process of separating the two chemicals would prove very difficult. Drew
Re:good luck... by azuretek · 2004-02-29 05:27 · Score: 3, Informative

I recently took a flight and I had 4 laptops, 5 batteries, 1 camera, gameboy, gameboy games, and tons of other elctronic gizmos on my carry ons. I put them all through the xray machine and they didn't even ask me about them. Funny thing though, I had all the batteries stacked up inside a zipper on one of the carry ons and they didn't even ask about it. In fact they didn't even bother me or ask about why I had all these things on me, for all they know I could have stole them from people in the airport. The only thing that kind of annoyed me was they made everyone getting in take off their shoes.

Anyway, alot of people have trouble through the airport and personally I haven't seen any of it. Only thing is I wish my family could have come to the terminal to wait with me until I left. But I guess that's just how the security goes.
Re:good luck... by cellocgw · 2004-02-29 05:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Better having those guys there, rude and all, than having a real terrorist making his way into the plane and putting and end to your life.
That's a standard example of FUD, as well as a standard example of a nonsequitur. There are some analyses which point out that, prior to any airport security, there were a number of hijackings to Cuba. Nobody was hurt. Then, as security got tighter and tighter, the number of hijackings went down but the death tolls went way up.
The "Better X than Y" just doesn't fly here, any more than "Better the (anti-)Patriot Act than more OK City bombings" routine being foisted on us by the clowns in DC.

--
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Re:good luck... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-29 05:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm an X-ray tech. Batteries and bombs look completely different.

Bomb material is generally much less dense than battery contents, for example. Plastic explosives have signature densities, and are displayed using a red tone on the monitor. It's funny, because meat has a desnity very close to that of plastic explosive, so it's highlighted red as well.

Batteries, made of lead are displayed black. They block x-rays very well--there's no mistaking batteries for any explosive material; unless they packed some of the batteries with PE, and lead-lined them. In which case you couldn't tell the difference, except that the PE batteries would have extra wires going to them.

If you want to make a tech nervous, get a steak (no bone), a couple batteries, a PCB with random components on it, and run a couple leads over to the steak, and use 14-ga amphenol pins as probes into the steak. that'll get you a strip search, with the possibility of a free prostate exam.
Re:good luck... by miguel_at_menino.com · 2004-02-29 05:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Anytown America airport. Security today was brought to you by the lowest bidder.
Re:good luck... by shepd · 2004-02-29 07:07 · Score: 4, Funny

>Zalmiak is ammonium chloride so it's made of ammonia and chlorine which are hazardous chemicals.

Dear Lord! We use that stuff to tin our soldering irons in North America. You guys *eat* that stuff?

And people wonder why we call you guys strange... :-)

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:good luck... by trb · 2004-02-29 08:57 · Score: 2, Funny

I recently took a flight and I had 4 laptops, 5 batteries, 1 camera, gameboy, gameboy games, and tons of other elctronic gizmos on my carry ons.

bwah bwah bwah imagine a beowulf cluster bwah bwah...
Re:good luck... by unixbum · 2004-02-29 09:30 · Score: 2, Funny

Oh my.. The whole world is eating sodium chloride (NaCl or table salt), its made of sodium which reacts violently with water and explodes and chlorine which is a deadly gas... WE MUST STOP EATING SALT!!!!! ... go back to 8th grade physics when two elements combine the resulting compound may have completly differnt properities
Re:good luck... by shamino0 · 2004-02-29 10:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

You know, if you're really worried about your equipment going through the scanner, at a lot of airports, you can request a manual examination of the equipment.
Have you actually tried to request this?
Last year, I tried requesting a hand inspection of a box of floppy disks, because I was afraid of possible X-ray damage (they were about 20 year-old 5.25" disks with programs that it would be hard to replace these days.) The security person said "sorry, we can't do that. Put it through the machine or you can't take it on the plane."
I decided to not start a fight over this, since I don't relish the idea of being arrested 3000 miles from home. I consider myself lucky that the disks didn't get damaged.
Re:good luck... by fiftyfly · 2004-02-29 18:25 · Score: 4, Informative

I would suggest that anyone carrying extra batteries for a personal device, put them into the change cup.

When I fly I carry all kinds of change, several AA's, tokens, pens & what not. To get around having to haul all this stuff out for inspection all the time (esp for connecting flights) I usually carry a ziplock bag or two and stuff anything that might remotely go into the change box. One item, no fussing & my pockets are lighter.

--
"Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"

How about instead of voiding the warranty.... by joshua404 · 2004-02-28 22:14 · Score: 3, Informative

...by dissecting your iPod, why not buy this ?

Re:How about instead of voiding the warranty.... by professor+seagull · 2004-02-28 22:16 · Score: 3, Informative

dissecting the ipod? read the article
Re:How about instead of voiding the warranty.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 22:36 · Score: 3, Funny

belkin = Belkin online price $69.99

homebrew = 10$ for batteries
5$ for connector
133t value of being h4xxor = priceless
Re:How about instead of voiding the warranty.... by sineltor · 2004-02-28 22:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Advantages
- Not compatible with iPod mini.

Sold!

--
'No publisher will ever pay you enough to successfully sue them' - Dave Sim

Nice by iswm · 2004-02-28 22:14 · Score: 3, Interesting

That's pretty slick. Now just stick the batteries in something nice and shinny that will go beter with iPod's sexy design, and we're cooking with fire.

--
Buckethead

Re:Nice by Bushcat · 2004-02-28 23:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

No it's not, it's terrible. The running costs are immense, and it's unbalanced.
In the first picture, there are a GP and a Varta 9V battery in parallel, with at least two cells, at least one of which is rechargable. So, 9 + (2 x 1.2) = 11.4 V.
In the second picture, there are two Varta 9V primary batteries in parallel, placed in series with two 1.5V Duracell alkalines. So, 9 + (2 x 1.5) = 12 V.
We can assume the difference in non-load voltage is not relevant. But when we consider the power available:
The capacity of each PP9 Varta is at most 450 mAh. (Rechargables are 110 mAh to 150 mAh). Taking the best case in parallel, therefore, 900 mAh. The rechargable AA's are about 1350 to 2300 mAh. If primary AA's are used, then figure on 2400 mAh.
So for an all-primary solution, the AA cells have 2.5 times the life of the PP9 cells. Basically, this design eats PP9 cells and there's no real way of telling which batteries/cells are running out at any given moment.
If one's going to go for a primary cell solution, then it would be better to have, say, 3 x 2CR5 in series or 3 x CR-P2 in series. But obviously a rechargable pack is the optimal solution because it's way cheaper in the long run. Buy them all together, Use them together, recharge them together. Check out packs used for digital cameras.
Re:Nice by JustKidding · 2004-02-29 00:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

Not only that, but the two 9V batteries are going to discharge through one another, because of the internal resistance in the batteries. Current can flow through a battery (which is why you can connect them in series), and therefore at least one of them is going to go flat, even when it's not in use.
The two AA's are pretty pointless, as the iPod was rated 8 - 30V, suggesting they just used a 78l05 or similar power stabiliser (min. input voltage = output + 3V). 3.5" HDD usually only need 5V, any extra voltage is just going to get you some extra dissipated heat, and no extra playing time, because the power stabiliser has to dissipate anything above 8V.
For fsck sake, find yourself an EE 101 book or something.
Re:Nice by dnoyeb · 2004-02-29 01:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

IIRC, internally the CPUs and memory chips will operate at either ~3V or ~5.5V, so the voltage will be stepped down in either case.

two 9V batteries will not be discharging through one another. One of them can not go flat, they are in parallel, if one goes flat, THEN the other will discharge through it, in effect, charging it(if it were rechargeable). But the effect is negligable, they will reach equilibriun.

I would go personally with a bunch of AA batteries since they tend to have longer life under load. 9V seems to be passe for devices which have human interaction.

6 AA in series would do the trick, and you can likely get a package to hold them at Radio Shack.

And I would say he has passed EE101, it was a good freshman level attempt. On paper it works :D

advantages by tsunamifirestorm · 2004-02-28 22:16 · Score: 4, Funny

Advantages
Not compatible with iPod mini.
straight quote.

Off-topic: Who said anything about dissection? by torpor · 2004-02-28 22:17 · Score: 4, Funny

This article is how to build your own Belkin battery pack for cheap.

Naughty naughty, you didn't read the article did you ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

10-8 hours of charge? by caitsith01 · 2004-02-28 22:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

More like 4-7 hours on the third generation iPod if you skip tracks frequently and don't listen in a continuous block.

Which is why I returned mine. Apple were forced to acknowledge that their claims about battery life may have been misleading when I showed them the Australian Trade Practices Act sections about misleading and deceptive conduct.

My 2 cents: buy a minidisc player. Better battery life, physically tougher, smaller. What's the point of having 10,000 songs if you can only listen to 7 hours worth in a sitting?

--
Read Pynchon.

Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Nutria · 2004-02-28 22:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

"The point's not toasting a cd every time you want to hear a song that's not toasted"
Hey, I have an idea!!! Store all the ripped songs on you PC/Mac's hard disk, and copy a chunk of them over to the ipod when needed.
Nah, that's too obvious.

--
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by timmy0tool · 2004-02-28 22:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

I still get 12 hours of play out of an old CD player(11 years old), from too AA batteries. I havent seen anything recently which managed this.

All the recent CD players I have seen last 4 hours but have 1 Meg buffers, 2x read speed, feature, feature etc.

I'm sticking with my old CD player, It works as I want and has the only features I need (long battery life).
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by gantrep · 2004-02-28 22:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Because for 7 hours you have 10,000 songs to pick from to listen to.

But I agree. I think that for example, the cast-benefit ratio is better for buying a cd-player that play's mp3-cd's than a HD-based player right now.
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 22:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

I have been using an old Sony MD player for quite a while. On one (count 'em, ONE) AA battery I routinely get about 30-35 hours playback at moderate volume. I have never used any music player that even comes close to this.
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by hugzz · 2004-02-28 22:54 · Score: 5, Interesting

buy a rio karma. better sound quality (remotely), better battery life ("15 hours"), plays more formats (ogg, flac). much cheaper (can get em for $230 pretty easily)
on the downside, they currently have no remote and cant work as a USB harddrive without the use of additional software. fortunately, rio are constantly updating the player with new features, and are in the process of making it work as a usb harddrive.
Minidiscs are alright (i own a sony N10 [top model]). It depends what you like though. They do have great battery life, but this is at the expensive of the amp.. so thanks to their weak amps, the sound quality isn't great. they're really good for the average joe, who (shock horror) uses the stock earbuds, and is happy with things like 128kbps mp3.. but as a music fan the weak amp annoys me (which is why i'm buying a karma, and have just built a portable amp)
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by cybermace5 · 2004-02-28 22:57 · Score: 2, Informative

Yeah the newer ones typically get up to 32 hours out of that. Sonys, specifically.

--
...
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Milkyman · 2004-02-28 22:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

more recent sony discmen (discmans?) have insane battery life as do the md players, at least in the higher end units. my old discman could get 50+ hours on a pair of AA and my minidisc player gets 30+hours on one AA easy.
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by cap'n+foolsy · 2004-02-28 23:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

12 hours? i get roughly 30 hours of play (at least one hour of non-stop playing everyday for a month) out of my panasonic cd player from the same. this is with 40 seconds of skip protection and bass boosting.

for me, the thing that's most important is that it can play my music uninterrupted, and with decent sound quality. that's why i _still_ use this 3-year old cd player more often than my brand new iRiver mp3/cd player.

--
It might look like I'm standing motionless, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by NevermindPhreak · 2004-02-28 23:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

the specs say it does have the external hard drive function already, though. this was the main thing holding me back from getting a karma, and now it says they have it. do you know the specifics on this situation?
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Fulkkari · 2004-02-28 23:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

What's the point of having 10,000 songs if you can only listen to 7 hours worth in a sitting?

I'm just curious; where do you listen to your iPod or any music player for that matter 7 hours a row? Traveling maybe? I'm quite sure you would able to use external power source part of that time.

Personally I can't get up to 7 hours a day even if I listen every moment I can.

And would people please stop to post these iPod battery stories? The whole is has become highly exaggerated.

--
I demand the Cone of Silence!
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by caitsith01 · 2004-02-28 23:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ok... to work, 1 hour. At work, 7.5 hours. From work, 1 hour. Bam, already over the limit.

I mean, at work I generally can't listen to 7.5 hours straight (those annoying co-workers won't leave me be for that long), but if I stop and start the thing accordingly I reduce the life to around 5-6 hours.

Plus, I don't WANT to recharge the goddamn thing, ok? I want to charge it like my phone, maybe once every 4-5 days, not every single night.

Plus, what about:
- long bus/train trips
- flying places (I do this a lot, often more than 7 hours in a flight)
- going away from civilisation
etc. etc. etc.

I guess I would challenge the 'portable' aspect of the iPod as a 'portable music solution.' As an external HD music player it rocks.

--
Read Pynchon.
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by TheRaven64 · 2004-02-29 00:05 · Score: 4, Interesting

I usually listen to my iPod on my walk into and back from work each day, and then drop it in it's cradle between times. The battery is also fine for use on train journeys, and short flights. The one time I have wished for a longer battery was when I went to Japan (24 hours of travelling, although a lot of those were spent asleep).
If the cost of a longer battery life is a larger unit, then I'd rather not have one. If I need more battery life, there's always the Belkin Battery Pack ($59.99 from the Apple store) which delivers an extra 12-15 hours of charge.

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by nicky_d · 2004-02-29 00:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

My 2 cents: buy a minidisc player. Better battery life, physically tougher, smaller. What's the point of having 10,000 songs if you can only listen to 7 hours worth in a sitting?

So a MD player will give you 10-12 hrs, or whatever, But in that time, you'd have to change disks ten or so times, unless you were a) listening to the same tracks over and over, or b) using MD compression, which gets pretty poor results IMO.

I switched from MD to iPod, and it works great for me. A lot of the time, my laptop is with me too, so that's extra power for the 'pod. I don't make long trips away from power adapters, so that's a hassle I don't face. If I did, I'd probably buy an iPod battery pack. My MD player uses a rechargable battery, so for long trips I'd face the same choice with that; take the charger, or take backup power.

Advantages to the MD player: it records, and it has optical in. Disadvantages: no way to digitally transfer the contents (mine is a pre-Net MD), and I'm limited to using discs. I enjoy the serendipity and convenience of 8,000 tracks of music on shuffle far too much to go back to having to choose a specific disc to play.

A case of getting the right tool for the job, I guess. Seven iPod hours works fine for me, but might be a dog for someone else, I guess. I'd never pick a MD over an iPod, however; notes, caledar, alarm, firewire hard drive... too many bonuses. My iPod is to MD as my MD was to my Walkman...
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Fulkkari · 2004-02-29 01:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

Would you claim that a 12 inch PowerBook isn't really a portable comptuer because you can't run it the whole day on just batteries? I think it is silly to bash Apple, just because you don't WANT to use an external power source. It would have been an option you would have got for free. And there are still other options for you if you can't use/don't want to external power source like this story and TheRaven64 points out.

--
I demand the Cone of Silence!
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Mononoke · 2004-02-29 02:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

Plus, I don't WANT to recharge the goddamn thing, ok? I want to charge it like my phone, maybe once every 4-5 days, not every single night.
You are talking on your cel phone around 7 hours per day? You must have one hell of a rate plan on that one.
Where do you find the time to listen to music when you are on the phone that much?

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NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Re:10-8 hours of charge? by Mononoke · 2004-02-29 02:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

No, they fed me some absolute BS about a restocking fee or whatever, just so that they didn't have to look like they were giving in to me (i.e., make it look like I'm just an annoying person who changed his mind, not a customer with a legitimate complaint). So they knocked about $80 off the refund.
If you lived in the real world, you'd realize that restocking fees are not BS. It costs money to buy used equipment back (and return it to sellable condition) from people who can't read the specs before they buy the item.
I have since cost Apple several thousand dollars personally by advising technologically non-savvy people who ask my advice against buying Apple products. I know of at least 2 instances where this has been a determining factor in buying decisions. Ah, revenge. It's a shame, I kinda like Apple, too.
No, you don't. You do seem to like the ego boost that comes with thinking you are having some negative affect against "The Man."

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NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local

Infinite battery by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 22:19 · Score: 5, Funny

We want solar iPod now!

Re:Infinite battery by liloconf · 2004-02-28 22:34 · Score: 3, Funny

You're assuming that because it's a mobile device people actually go outside with it.... you realize this is Slashdot??
Re:Infinite battery by tracker1972 · 2004-02-28 22:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

Good point :-)

Could leave it on the window sill next time you have a power cut though. Sorry, don't live in the states, didn't mean to be insesitive!

Solar chargers always seem like top ideas though. Small panel, top of rucksack, just to keep topping up whatever, hell it would just work a radio, but just to streach the life of an iPod to an hour or so more? Might just make a day out then? If it's sunny enough.

Tracker.
Re:Infinite battery by Quasar1999 · 2004-02-29 03:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Solar iPod? You'd need about $150 in solar cells just to make the damn thing spin it's HD up. And then there's the logistics problem of the device not having enough surface area, so you'd need to put a huge adapter on it (goodbye small and portable)...

I tried this idea already... thought I could make millions... instead I wasted $150... ugh.

--

---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.

putting two batteries in parallel is not good by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 22:20 · Score: 5, Interesting

placing two cells in parallel can mean that one will discharge through the other - a stack of 6 or 8 AA cells in series would be better

Re:putting two batteries in parallel is not good by neirboj · 2004-02-28 22:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

Theoretically, if two batteries rated for the same voltage are connected positive-to-positive and negative-to-negative, no current will flow between them. In practice there may be a small difference in the potential at the positive terminal of one with respect to the other which would result in some current drain. At some point however the differential would vanish due to the discharging and current would cease to flow.

I propose that batteries in parallel are fine as long as you replace them simultaneously.
Re:putting two batteries in parallel is not good by cybermace5 · 2004-02-28 22:53 · Score: 4, Informative

Ehh...yeah...and I noticed he's got different brands of batteries and even chargeables, standard, and alkaline batteries all mixed together. That's quite a little cocktail of things that can go wrong. Once that dry cell nine volt dies and the alkaline hasn't yet, the circuit isn't so hot any more...or maybe it is hot, in a bad way.

Just get 10 NiMH AAA batteries and wire them in series. They're 1.2 volts, so you'll get 12 to start off. It'll end up being about 1.75"x1.875"x.75" if you don't use holders, otherwise you can use two 4-cell holders and one 2-cell holder in a small box, which would make it a lot easier to pull out the batteries for recharging. This gets you about 600 extra milliamps, I have no idea what the iPod drains. If you used AAs instead, that would get you up to 1800ma. But 10 AAs are a little heavier.

Might as well go for the 12 volt lantern battery!

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...
Re:putting two batteries in parallel is not good by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 23:03 · Score: 4, Interesting

Sorry, but your statement that "the current would cease to flow" is not correct. There will be a current around the loop; the potential drop of this current through the (small) internal resistance of the batteries is what causes the voltage to even out. But that current can be very large causing a lot of heating of the batteries.

You are correct, however, that effect is not too bad if the batteries are closely matched (i.e. bought from the same package at the same time and always used together so they discharge equally).

Card box? by darketernal · 2004-02-28 22:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

Seems to me that should the battery deal go wrong, the card box is very conducive to fire.. fire on batteries... box go boom?

That's me being paranoid, but I recently heard of a colo facility destroyed - burned to the ground - by exploding batteries.

Re:Card box? by W2k · 2004-02-29 01:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

The batteries that destroyed the CoLo would have been the heavy-duty supersized ones that go in UPS'es and the like. Those really are dangerous if you handle them incorrectly. The ordinary batteries you can buy at the grocery store, however, almost never explode, especially not the non-rechargeable kinds. Besides, if you are carrying this box in your pocket, and a battery explodes, you will have more important things to worry about than whether the box catches fire or not...

--
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.

NetMD by caitsith01 · 2004-02-28 22:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well, with a NetMD minidisc recorder it takes a few minutes to transfer whatever you want onto a minidisc. I can live with that. Furthermore, it will play for around 30 hours on an AA battery, so if you take half an hour to organise a few LP MDs you're set for days of music.

--
Read Pynchon.

Charging Problems UNSAFE by Kehl · 2004-02-28 22:27 · Score: 4, Informative

THIS IS NOT SAFE!

There are 2 x 1.5 volt cells in series
And 2 x 9 volt cells in parallel

I know for certain this causes heat problems during charging or discharging because of the charge inbalance between the cells.
This could lead to explosions in extreem cases.

If you need to build one, I would suggest removing one of the 9 volt cells or adding 2 more 1.5 volt cells in parallel

Re:Charging Problems UNSAFE by waterbear · 2004-02-29 02:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'll give you an opportunity to go into more detail about those "extreem inbalances".

I'll bite: just to explain the problem with connecting batteries in parallel:

The 9v batteries in parallel have the same nominal voltage, but almost inevitably will slightly differ in actual voltage. The difference voltage tends to drive current around the circuit composed of the two batteries in parallel. There is only very low impedance in that circuit if the batteries are reasonably new and full of charge.

As a result, the idle circulating currents can build up to high values and cause heat dissipation problems, perhaps damaging the batteries and severely limiting the useful life of the arrangement.

Since the whole point is to get longer life, that looks a bit self-defeating.

A simple solution is to include a series diode with each battery. The loss of about 0.5v overall will not be appreciable because of the wide iPod voltage tolerance.

-wb-

If you have a 1 or 2G ipod... by Xyde · 2004-02-28 22:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

As I do, if you've ever taken it apart you'll notice there is quite a bit of space left in there. The battery is quite thin. I've often wondered if you could just buy another battery from say www.ipodbattery.com and install it internally, coupled in parallel with the original one. (same voltage, twice the capacity) Any EE's could verify if this would work?

Re:If you have a 1 or 2G ipod... by lgftsa · 2004-02-29 00:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

The charger would be trying to deliver twice the designed current, by trying to pump up the pulse voltage(I assume they use a charge/rest/discharge technique), plus any bad battery detection/safety cutout would be negated.

Is would be interesting to watch, but I'll be standing over *there* while you try, if you don't mind...
Re:If you have a 1 or 2G ipod... by autocracy · 2004-02-29 01:45 · Score: 3, Informative

More available amperage shouldn't result in more draw. Plugging your cellphone charger into a 15 amp circuit is the same as plugging it into a 20 amp. No matter what, it still draws the same power - less than one amp (or you have issues).

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SIG: HUP
Re:If you have a 1 or 2G ipod... by Tenareth · 2004-02-29 03:26 · Score: 2, Informative

Electricity isn't "pushed" it's pulled.

If you plug a 20amp item into a 15amp circuit, it will pull the 20amps anyway, until smoke, or a fuse/breaker goes off.

But the device wouldn't pull more just because there's more available. It's the recharger that might not be happy.

--
This sig is the express property of someone.
Re:If you have a 1 or 2G ipod... by Zarquon · 2004-02-29 07:04 · Score: 2, Informative

The problem wouldn't be using the battery (discharging) but in charging. (Assuming the IPOD won't zero a pack; reversing cells is bad, m'kay.)

You would have to disconnect one battery or the other before charging a pack. Lithium chargers are designed for specific battery combinations as they can explode if not charged properly.

--
"'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac

Don't believe the hype by caitsith01 · 2004-02-28 22:31 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yes, have second thoughts! I'm not proposing that iPods stink or anything of the sort, but if you are like me, i.e. serious about listening to a lot of music rather than looking at a shiny white thing, then iPod may not be the ideal solution. I am on the move a lot, and for me an average of 6 hours playback was just never going to cut it.

With NetMD, using Sony's (admittedly pretty shite) software you can easily transfer MP3s onto minidiscs in no time. The program takes your MP3, converts it into a (seperate) MD-formatted audio file, then copies it via USB to the MD player. By ripping and maintaining your own MP3s outside the Sony software managing your music is pretty straightforward.

Minidisc uses ATRAC, see here: http://www.minidisc.org/aes_atrac.html

--
Read Pynchon.

Re:Don't believe the hype by NeoPotato · 2004-02-29 03:15 · Score: 2, Informative

So don't use Sony's OpenMG software. There's alternative ways to get your MP3's on there without copy protection.

Try M3U2SB.
http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/paolose/

Hell of a lot better than using Sony's software.

Alternatively... by cioxx · 2004-02-28 22:31 · Score: 4, Informative

Buy a 40-hour iPod battery for $100 bucks.

That's Right. 40

Re:Alternatively... by TFloore · 2004-02-29 08:24 · Score: 2, Informative

Only 400 charges though... I think most people can easily charge more than 400 times if they don't be careful about using all of it before doing so.
They say this because, as they also say, it uses a Lithium-Ion battery.

That's the standard answer for *any* Lithium-Ion battery.

300-400 charges, for full charges, less than 30% charge remaining when you recharge it.
500-600 charges, for partial charges (generally defined as 70%+ charge remaining when you recharge it)

If you want more charge cycles, you don't want Lithium-Ion batteries. Do some reading on rechargable batteries, most of them have a rating of "number of charge cycles" before you have a paperweight.

NiMH are 350-450 charge cycles.
NiCD are 400-500 charge cycles.

Never heard a rating for Lead-Acid rechargable batteries (aka, car batteries) but considering they are usually rated for some number of miles in your car... they have a charge cycle rating too.

Incidentally, if you have an old cell phone, where the battery doesn't last as long as it used to when it was new... don't blame the cell phone, blame the battery. This is why I like the extended-life batteries on cell phones. Not just so I can talk longer, but so I can recharge it only once every 3 days (assuming low usage). This way, the battery will get 300 charge cycles in about 2 years, and I'll be replacing the phone then anyway.

--
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?

How about rechargeable CR-V3 batteries? by line.at.infinity · 2004-02-28 22:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

Instead of using NiMH or Alkaline AA battery pairs, Li-ion batteries are fantastic too. A comparison with 2xAA batteries and CR-V3 batteries show that CR-V3 battery charges last longer and have a longer lifespan.

How about this? by nametaken · 2004-02-28 22:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

Wouldn't it be better to use the rechargable batteries you can buy at BestBuy or Target instead of burning up those AAs and 9vs for 10 hrs of play time?

What? by tracker1972 · 2004-02-28 22:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

Who, when advertising, underestimated the possible battery life? All the quotes I remember about battery life (but I have not checked for the iPod) are based on "optimum conditions" or "up to" however long.

Whoever the manufacturer I think their claims (max speed, time, savings etc) are mainly calculated, theoretical maximums.
Real life is rarely optimised.

Tracker.

Re:What? by caitsith01 · 2004-02-28 22:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

Nonetheless, if they make claims that are false, that is misleading and deceptive conduct in Australia, where I live. When I set my MD to play non-stop on a full charge and timed it it didn't even make the advertised battery life, it was short by nearly an hour.

Just because advertisers DO lie doesn't mean they SHOULD lie.

--
Read Pynchon.
Re:What? by scrub76 · 2004-02-29 01:43 · Score: 3, Informative

Just a counterpoint showing that mileage does vary.
I recently flew from LA to Melbourne, a brutal 14 hour flight. I turned on my 1st gen iPod immediately after we left LA, and, much to my surprise, it kept working until our approach in Australia. Yes, I didn't skip around very much, and I'm sure that helped battery life. But 14 hours of non-stop playback is 14-hours of playback.

Left out of the article: Pin assignment by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 22:39 · Score: 5, Informative

6 pin Firewire pin assignment (& others)

Need to know which ones are the power pins, right? ;)

Anonymous Joe

Problems, problems, problems... by fmaxwell · 2004-02-28 23:08 · Score: 5, Interesting

The first problem with the battery pack is that it is grossly unbalanced. He shows alkaline batteries in it, so let's cruise on over to www.energizer.com and get some specs. A 9V Energizer has 625mah while AA Energizers have 2850mah capacity. Parallel the two 9V and you are only up to 1250mah, which means that the two 9V batteries will be dead before the AA cells are even half of the way used up.

Next, he is using expensive and environmentally harmful alkaline batteries rather than NiMH rechargeables. According to the EPA, Americans throw away 2 billion non-rechargeable batteries per year -- almost all of which end up in landfills. The single largest source of mercury in garbage is alkaline and button cell batteries. He took an iPod that had a battery pack that could be recharged for about a year and a half and made an alkaline pack that has to be thrown away every ten hours! It's projects like the one described here that make me think that the feds should ban all non-rechargeable batteries bigger than button cells.

Since the iPod would run on anything from 8-30V, he would have been a lot smarter to use 8 AA NiMH batteries in a case like this or this.

Re:Problems, problems, problems... by niko9 · 2004-02-29 01:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not trolling, but you bring up an interesting point; do you know of anyone who will accept batteries for recyclying or safe disposal?

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Re:Problems, problems, problems... by anubi · 2004-02-29 01:59 · Score: 4, Informative

Call your city... especially the department which handles the trash.
Most of them are very concerned about things ending up in the trash which are not supposed to be in the trash, and are quite helpful when questioned.
Its a helluva lot easier to help someone properly dispose of something than it is to try to recover it out of the landfill once its presence has been detected.

--
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Re:Problems, problems, problems... by ceranta · 2004-02-29 02:19 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm pretty sure Radio Shack will take your used alkaline batteries. Or any electronics store for that matter.
Re:Problems, problems, problems... by fmaxwell · 2004-02-29 04:59 · Score: 4, Informative

Recyclable batteries do not last nearly as long as non-recyclables... at least the ones I use.

The better NiMH AA-size rechargeable batteries are rated at 2100-2200mah. An alkaline AA Energizer is rated 2850mah, meaning that it has about 1.3x the capacity. But there is more to it than that. NiMH batteries work far better than alkaline batteries in power intensive applications. A NiMH battery maintains a high and consistent voltage during most of its discharge. An alkaline battery's voltage drops rapidly when used in a power intensive applications such as digital camera. In that kind of application, the NiMH batteries last far longer than alkalines.

Where alkalines have a big advantage is in things like smoke detectors and remote controls. A NiMH battery will "self-discharge" in 1-2 months while an alkaline battery will last for years with no load.

Also, be careful not to confuse NiCads with NiMH batteries. The two are drastically different in capacity. A typical AA NiCad has a capacity of 700mah, 1/3 the capacity of a modern AA NiMH cell.
Re:Problems, problems, problems... by fmaxwell · 2004-02-29 05:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

do you know of anyone who will accept batteries for recyclying or safe disposal?

A better question is whether the company is actually recycling the batteries. I saw that one person recommended dropping dead alkalines off at Radio Shack, but I've seen Radio Shack employees throw fistfuls of dead batteries in the trash. I'm sure that they'd love to lure you into the store on a regular basis with the promise of recycling batteries, but will they recycle them? I don't know.

There is a firm called Toxco which recycles alkaline batteries (as well as lithium and other types). They have a rather short page of companies that use battery recycling services (Radio Shack is not on their list). You might contact them (see their contact page) and ask if they have customers that accept alkaline batteries for recycling.

As to "safe disposal", there is no such thing for alkaline batteries. You can't dispose of 2 billion batteries per year without an environmental impact.
Re:Problems, problems, problems... by fmaxwell · 2004-02-29 08:01 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm pretty sure Radio Shack will take your used alkaline batteries. Or any electronics store for that matter.

They'll take your cup from Orange Julius, too, but it doesn't mean that they will recycle it. I've seen Radio Shack employees throw handfuls of batteries into the trash, so make sure that your store actually participates in a battery recycling program before handing them batteries.

National US retail stores participating in a battery recycling program include: Ameritech, Batteries Plus, Best Buy, Cellular One, Cingular, Circuit City, GTE Wireless, Home Depot, Orchard Supply, Radio Shack, Sears, Target, WalMart, and Wireless Zone. Again, make sure that the pimply faced kid behind the register knows how to recycle batteries and isn't just tossing them in the trash.

Others have said don't do this by panurge · 2004-02-28 23:10 · Score: 4, Informative

And, as someone who has had extensive experience with batteries, I agree. Never parallel battery cells unless you know how to design the necessary support electronics to prevent one discharging into the other (it can be done but it is complicated and there is always some voltage loss.)

Instead, either use two 4-way AA cell holders in series with non-rechargeable cells(for a total of 12V), which are available from most electronics distributors, or a combination of 2 and 4 way holders to allow the use of 10 NiCd or NiMH AA or AAA cells - also for a total of 12V since these cells run about 1.2V each. With a diode and a resistor you can trickle charge this arrangement through a car lighter plug, since car batteries run around 14.5V. It's a kludge but a feasible kludge.

I wonder if anyone has looked at modifying the works of a Freeplay radio (wind up dynamo) to act as a charger for small appliances like iPods?

--
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.

Re:Others have said don't do this by Dun+Malg · 2004-02-29 09:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

And, as someone who has had extensive experience with batteries, I agree. Never parallel battery cells unless you know how to design the necessary support electronics to prevent one discharging into the other (it can be done but it is complicated and there is always some voltage loss.)
Wouldn't a couple diodes do the trick?

--
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Re:Others have said don't do this by Al-Hala · 2004-02-29 09:49 · Score: 2, Informative

Yes, Diodes are the easiest solution.

With the use of low forward drop diodes, and proper attention to peak current flows (and some IC Protectors/low value flameproof resistors), you can have a very decent pack.

Other solutions involve active current and voltage regulation, and would be overkill for this application.

Re:Never have batteries in parallel! by Bushcat · 2004-02-28 23:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

My computer's battery pack, which happens to be laying disembowelled in front of me at this very moment, consists of 6 cells arranged in 3 sets of 2 cells in parallel, connected serially.

Nothing wrong with parallel connections as long as you charge them either conservatively or intelligently. Note the final design shown in this article actually shows primary cells. Firstly they're nominally non-rechargable, secondly their internal resistance prevents any thought-provoking excursions in the temperature and noise domains.

Belkin Backup Battery by lotd · 2004-02-28 23:19 · Score: 5, Informative

If you can afford an ipod, I am sure you can afford one of these (if you really want longer battery life):

Backup battery pack

LotD

Re:Belkin Backup Battery by pinguirico · 2004-02-28 23:48 · Score: 3, Informative

I would not recommend this for a second. In my experience these are really only good for a few hours. These appear power the ipod directly instead of charging the internal battery and powering the ipod like the design shown here. I guess this is so they can get away with 4AAs (6V) ass opposed to the 12ish volts over the normal charge line.

The problem is that as soon as the batteries start to wear (2 out of 4 on the chargers battery charge meter) the ipod crashes. I've noticed my ipod acts funky on low battteries so I'm guessing that the voltage drops too low at a very early stage in the battery wear. Meaning you end up throwing away a lot of half used AA batteries (or saving them for better electronics)
Re:Belkin Backup Battery by Colonel+Cholling · 2004-02-29 03:06 · Score: 2, Funny

Do you really want to use a battery pack from Belkin? It probably highjacks the audio stream so that every other track is an ad for more Belkin products.

--

I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.
Re:Belkin Backup Battery by madpierre · 2004-02-29 08:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hmmm. A poster further up said he thought the ipod used a 78L05
linear regulator (or some equivalent) and from what i've been
reading I tend to agree. It would certainly seem to explain the
ipods rather crappy power management. These linear regulators
have a quiescent current in the order of milliamps which is just
dumb (in this day and age) for a battery powered device. It is
however cheap, which is presumably why apple went this way (if they
did) rather than opt for a more efficient micropower regulator with
microamp quiescent current draw. Perhaps they should've farmed out
the electronics to SONY and just stuck to designing the enclosure.

--
siggy played guitar

I wouldn't trust this guy.... by ziggy_zero · 2004-02-28 23:24 · Score: 2, Funny

...in his iTunes music library he has the artist of the song "Stuck in the Middle with You" as Bob Dylan....fishy...

--
I belong to the ______ generation.

batteries in parallel can be ok by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 23:27 · Score: 5, Informative

I'm assuming he chose this configuration because a 9V will discharge faster at a given current than a AA.

He chose this configuration only because he was trying to be clever and fit it into a playing-card pack.

As to what you're assuming - no. Battery voltage is determined by the chemical type of the battery. Size doesn't matter. So for example, standard alkaline AA, AAA, C, and D batteries all put out 1.5V, but Ni-Cads put out 1.2V. Lead-acid like your car battery is 2V.

Therefore, a 9V battery is just six tiny 1.5V batteries in series. Get some tin snips or whatever, and carefully cut open the outer casing on a 9V and you can see for yourself.

Also, you *can* safely run batteries in parallel. The only gotcha is that you can run into problems if you try to charge the batteries in that configuration when they are not evenly discharged. His picture looks like he isn't using rechargeable batteries, though. Or if you had rechargeables, you could pop the batteries out and charge them individually.

Personally I think it'd be more straightforward to just wire up 8 AAA batteries in series and forget the 9V nonsense. Probably would get longer battery life too. I don't know if they'd fit in a playing-card pack, but they wouldn't be much larger.

Upgrading Portable Players, Laptops, PDAs by wehe · 2004-02-28 23:33 · Score: 3, Informative

Since I found it difficult to research how to upgrade and repair such electronic devices, I have setup pages with links to HOWTOs for portable music players, laptops and notebooks as well as PDAs. BTW: there is a also a selecion of Linux tools to connect to portable MP3 players.

Awful design by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-28 23:34 · Score: 3, Insightful

1) Different battery types will lead to different discharge rates... in other words, when a battery is flat, you have to take them all out and test individually.

2) The circuit is hardly clever or novel; no lights to tell you when the batteries are reading the end of their useful life.

3) Gluing plastic on cardboard.... does this pass for elegent or clever? If so, let me show you some really "clever" things I've done with a fanbelt at 3 AM to keep my car going.

4) is this was /. has sunk to? I mean, there's got to be funnier or cleverer stuff than this out there.

Car battery by OPTiX_iNC · 2004-02-28 23:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

If you are going to do all that, why not put a car battery in a backpack and put a voltage regulator on it? The best point of the iPod is that it is sleek and slender, now what have you just done when you 'add' a battery?

Also, a source... by Trillan · 2004-02-28 23:57 · Score: 2, Informative

I haven't ordered from these guys (yet -- I'm definitely building a battery pack) but a few minutes in Google found them:

NTC Distributing

Re:MODS, parent did NOT read the article by gujo-odori · 2004-02-29 00:27 · Score: 3, Informative

While he obviously didn't RTFA, on the other hand, the existence of an external ipod battery pack with LEDs to indicate the charge, a secure (by which they seem to mean locking) on/off switch and a suction-cup mount is something I did not know about before, so I'd call him informative and misinformed, simultaneously.

However, 70 bucks seems kind of steep for that thing. I'm sure you could make one with all or most of its functions and that looked as good for a lot less.

Or if you just want to go on the cheap yet have something sturdier than a playing card box, got a snap-together travel soap carrier and make an ipod battery pack out of that instead. It will take a little more effort and skill to mount the firewire plug in it, but it will last a long time.

A different arrangement... by grantedparole · 2004-02-29 00:43 · Score: 3, Informative

You could make this battery pack rechargable and have an even 12V output using two 9.6V Maha Powerex
batteries and two regular NiMH batteries.

Eight AAA cell would have been too easy? by egork · 2004-02-29 01:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

I know I am just a geeky physisist by education :-), can anybody tell me what in the world was the reason to use two 9V and two 1,5V cells and connect them in a funny way, when one could just take eight AAA cells. 8x1,5V=12V bingo!

That will be even cheaper. And would last longer. And will fit into cardbox as well. And ...

--
...a stunned silence fell upon the hall.

bad electronician, no donut by TheSHAD0W · 2004-02-29 01:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Batteries in parallel (like those 9Vs) are bad, mixing battery types in series (such as AA and 9V in series), or even in brand (different brands of AA batteries) is very bad. If you're going to build this project, use 8 AA batteries in a simple series, unless you like having a pocket full of battery acid.

Battery Mod by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-29 02:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

One thing i have yet to see anyone use... if its rated for 8 - 30 volts use 2 7.2v RC racing packs in series those things were designed for Horrendous discharge rates ive used them on older notebooks with great success i figure an ipod would run for upwards of 40 hours on a pair of good sanyos

Use an ipod battery? by JasonEngel · 2004-02-29 03:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

I wonder if it would be possible to make something like this external pack using an actual ipod battery (available at several online stores). Put it in a small project box of some sort with a firewire port on it and maybe some sort of led/light/whatever to indicate if it is charged.

I made a similar pack... by SiMac · 2004-02-29 03:55 · Score: 3, Informative

I built it with a Firewire cable with a female end that I cut in half and taped to a 9V clip, then I attached the 9V clip to an 8 battery pack. It didn't need any soldering, and it should last about 20 hours. I've determined that it can be stored in either a cornflakes box or a neoprene case; a hard case would probably work too. It's pretty cool.

I thought of going the 9V route, but then it occurred to me that it's kinda pointless to have two 9Vs - 9Vs don't hold that much charge; their main benefit is that they're small. They're actually 6 tiny (and therefore inefficient) 1.5V cells in parallel. So there is no purpose in having two.

Anyone else notice.... by telstar · 2004-02-29 03:57 · Score: 2, Troll

Anyone else notice that this guy's latest blog entry talks about his dead iPod? Connect the dots....

Which pins to use on the firewire socket? by scottme · 2004-02-29 04:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

I don't see anywhere in the article which pins on the firewire socket one has to connect to pos & neg from the batteries. I'd want to be real sure I got that right before plugging a gizmo like this into my iPod.

On second thoughts, I suppose all it takes to discover this is a multimeter and the Apple charger.

Still, it would be a nice addition to the article if he would explain that.

Danger! Warning! Fire risk! Pleeease mod up!!! by skywolf · 2004-02-29 05:24 · Score: 5, Informative

To be blunt, this design isn't so bright... Sure, it produces a reasonable voltage, but it's not a good idea to mix different types / sizes of battery in this way. If batteries are mixed in parallel like the PP3 batteries in this circuit, large currents may flow from one of the batteries to the other - it's unlikely both batteries would output exactly the same voltage. If batteries of different sizes are mixed in series, one type may discharge before the other. The discharged cell may potentially be reversed - i.e. current will flow through it backwards. Either of these situations may cause the batteries to vent gas, overheat, or if safeguards fail they may even potentially explode. This is the sort of thing that you may get away with for some of the time, and you may not see any problems immediately - but in the long term you may well burn your house down. This advice comes from experience. If you short a rechargeable battery you can draw extremely high currents (even 10s of amps) and start fires very quickly. I once melted a long piece of plastic insulation very quickly when two contacts touched at the end of a battery lead. The battery got very hot - I burned my fingers trying to disconnect it. Treat batteries with respect. I'd be willing to wager that electronics kills many more people through fire than electrocution.

Yet another dumb slashdot article by TheLink · 2004-02-29 05:53 · Score: 2, Informative

"12 volts. Since that isnt a common value for Batteries".

Doh what part of 8 x 1.5 or 10 x 1.2(NiCads) doesn't he get?

And his solution is to mix different types of batteries together.

--

Too many replies beneath your current threshold

Belkin Battery Pack by anamexis · 2004-02-29 06:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm still waiting for plans for a homemade Belkin battery pack.
The difference?
The belkin packs, as you may have noticed, use only 4x1.5V. They don't charge the iPod battery, they power the iPod, getting 15-20 more hours of playtime, a better solution to me. This is probably done by jumping a pin in the proprietary dock connector of the iPod.
If someone could figure out which pin to jump or otherwise how to make this, it would be a wonderful solution.

It's a plus by dema · 2004-02-29 06:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

While this doesn't seem like an incredibly safe thing to do, it's certainly nice to see someone actually doing something about his battery instead of just bitching.

Firewire by gruben · 2004-02-29 06:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

No one seems to care about the fact that the guy didn't say how to connect the batteries to the FireWire connector! I mean, which pins to use, etc.

He seemed more interested in explaining how to build a horrible case with the playing cards case :P

While I'm wiring this thing up.. by NanoGator · 2004-02-29 08:35 · Score: 2, Funny

... I'm gonna have it play TV_Themes__MacGuyver.MP3.

--
"Derp de derp."

this seems like an expensive hack by Sparr0 · 2004-02-29 08:55 · Score: 3, Informative

Those batteries are going to be eaten like candy... It would be much smarter to put together a lithium ion polymer pack and just recharge it... Stick 6 1Ah LI-P cells in the same amount of space, (2*3 arrangement) and you get your nice nominal ~11V with a hell of a lot more duration (2Ah) than alkalines, and a lot less cost. The cells will run you maybe $15 each, and will last for hundreds of charges.

The Right Way To Build An External Battery Box by BigBlockMopar · 2004-02-29 09:14 · Score: 5, Informative

It's obviously not the work of a professional engineer, but that's what makes it neat. Taking a just barely functional knowledge of what's going on and solving a problem using available tools. I suspect this guy isn't going to be the professional EE you all think he should be for at least 4 more years

Actually, I've seen a lot of EEs do the same thing, with no more understanding than the basic voltage drop analysis. You have to keep in mind that an engineering degree confers exactly the *opposite* thing to the practical knowledge required in the real world. Those people who make good engineers already got their practical knowledge from playing with Lego and hacking their bicycle.

You see, the reason why a D cell is bigger than a C cell is bigger than a AA cell is bigger than a AAA cell despite all putting out ~1.5V is because of current capacity. A modern D cell will put out 1.5V into a 1A load for many (~15) hours, while a modern AAA cell will put out 1.5V into a 1A load for around an hour and ten minutes.

Trivia question: why is there AA, AAA, C and D but no A or B? Answer: The A battery was a big 1.5V lantern battery used to heat the filaments in radios before rectifier tubes were practical to allow the radio to be plugged in to a regular outlet, and the B battery was a 30V, 45V or 90V battery used to provide the plate voltages for the tubes in these radios. The B battery stuck around until the early transistor radios of the late 1950s replaced all the tube portables. You can actually still buy both battery types but generally only through big electronic parts suppliers.

(Quoting Duracell's alkaline battery data sheets, difficult to link directly to the PDF so click on "Technical Bulletin" and scroll to page 9/13, D cell 15Ah (15,000mAh) and AAA cell 1.15Ah (1,150mAh).)

Go to Radio Shack and buy a multimeter. Stick it in current mode, and measure the current consumed by the iPod. Then look up the mAh (milliamp-hour) ratings for the type of battery you wish to use - NiMH, Energizer Lithium, Duracells, whatever. Do not mix battery types (brands, chemistries, etc), ages (new batteries and old batteries should never be put together in series), or sizes (AA, 9V, D-cells, etc.) because you will have some discharge faster than others, sometimes to the point of actually trying to "recharge" the weakest cells off the strongest cells.

Figure out which battery size you need to use based on whatever you consider to be an acceptable battery life for long trips, and use it. Of course, there will be design trade-offs in order to achieve a reasonable size - shorter battery life or bigger and heavier batteries - some compromise will probably have to be reached. If all you care about is battery life, for example, just stick the iPod directly across a car battery.

Get appropriate sized battery holders at Radio Shack or any number of electronic parts places - MCM Electronics, All Electronics, Digikey, Newark, Electrosonic, etc. Connect them in series and build them into a plastic or aluminum box, properly secured and screwed down. Use heat shrink tubing instead of electrical tape for all connections, and use a grommet (those little plastic things where the power cord enters your kettle or toaster or whatever) to prevent the wires getting frayed.

And, most importantly, once you know the current the iPod consumes, multiply that number by two and buy a fuse with that rating. Put it in a holder in the battery box - that way, if the power cord to the iPod gets caught and damaged, or if the iPod fails catastrophically - there won't be a fire.

--
Fire and Meat. Yummy.

iPod Car Chargers by the+JoshMeister · 2004-02-29 09:40 · Score: 3, Informative

An inexpensive homebrew iPod battery sounds way cool! However, just to clarify something...

Not bad for that long car trip where you just don't have a firewire charger handy.

Actually, there ARE car chargers for the iPod, and they're only $20:
http://www.xtrememac.com/foripod/car_charger.shtml

Apple even sells the newer model at The Apple Store.

--
the JoshMeister on Security

Re:MODS, parent did NOT read the article by gujo-odori · 2004-02-29 18:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

Nowhere did I say "Can't afford." Rather, my opinion is that the price is unjustifiably high for what you get. You could certainly argue that about the ipod itself, as you mention, and the high price of it is pretty much why I don't have one. I could afford one, but I don't see the ipod as offering sufficient extra bang for the large amount of extra bucks. A much cheaper player will meet all my needs, so I have no interest in an ipod, and won't until the price is much lower than it is now. And they get the battery situation worked out :-)

Actually, though, I really prefer players with no moving parts. I don't need 4 gig of storage on a player; a large CF more than meets my needs, and doesn't have the one fatal problem of anything that goes around: someday it will stop going around.

Supply and demand may allow for a $70 price (or not; time will tell if Belkin is at the wrong price point or not), but even that doesn't mean it's not steep. Anytime demand outstrips supply, that allows suppliers to reap windfall profits. Belkin might currently be the only people offering one of these. If six months from now ten other companies are making such a product, you'll see them selling for half what Belkin is currently asking, and still making a profit.

Therefore, yes I do think that 70 bucks is really steep for one of those and would either wait or try building my own rather than spend that much.

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