Slashdot Mirror
No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft
dncsky1530 writes "In a previous Slashdot story, the Denver Post ran an article talking about a portable music player that would have the look and feel of an iPod. Microsoft stated that they will not be manufactoring such a device, Mehdi, "I've spent time with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service that will look and feel as good as the iPod product. And they will undoubtedly be a little bit less expensive and so head-to-head against Apple...""
40$ one time activation fee ...
5$ monthly subscribtion fee
2$ download access fee
15$ remote assistance fee
5$ for a special software player with XP look
which would be a hell of a deal for a HDD based iPod clone.
That this thing will be: 1. Ugly; 2. Have a clunky interface with lots of glitz and glitter; 3. Play WMA only; 4. Require XP; 5. Have limited hard drive capacity; 6. Run Pocketwindows and crash regularly; 7. Have its own host of viruses within half a year; 8. Still sell like crazy because for some reason people seem to prefer mediocre crap as long as it is cheap and runs windows Let's hope I'm wrong, I have an iPod and rather enjoy having something made by Apple be mainstream for a change :)
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
I thought my bullshit meter detected something. What could cost $50 and still be as good as the iPod??
Who cares about XP/Longhorn only I forsee a lindows sponsorship to get Linux to run on it...
Microsoft reiterated that they are not backing away from their original assertion that the device has the "feel and the look of an iPod". The only notable difference is the guts are from Sony
If you think
We've found the answer to step 2, finally!
1.) Announce fantastic unbelievable product
2.) Retract announcement (formerly ???)
3.) Profit from the 2 days of free publicity
wooooo!
Imagine that!
"Microsoft stated that they will not be manufactoring such a device" (..) Someone else will manufacture it for them.
What's the difference?
No doubt some of the nameless companies in Taiwan and China which are nearly impossible for Apple to sue on look/feel or other infringement issues.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Maybe at $25, people could afford an iPod clone. But $50 is ridiculous.
Other choice quotes from Microsoft:
- NT will support the SPARC risc platform
- IE4 cannot be separated fron Win98
- Palladium is for security purposes only
- SQL Server doesn't have easter eggs
In short, if Microsoft says they have no plan for an iPod clone, they may speak the truth, or they're still developing it. At any rate, they're probably trying hard to avoid looking like a monopoly.
Written by Joe Wilcox of Jupiter Research it starts:
I'm a bit stunned by the press feeding frenzy set off by comments (here) Yusuf Mehdi, MSN corporate VP, made during a Wednesday speech. News report after news report claimed that Microsoft would unleash an iPod-killing music player for 50 bucks.
The problem: That's not at all what Mr. Mehdi said.
Something other than informative.
Do the Moderators even check the links?
I seriously doubt that the gut will be made by Sony as they are direct competitor with Microsoft in several areas (XBox vs. Playstation, WMA vs. ATRAC 3)
Does Clippy retrieve the playlists?
If you think
4.) Become further hated and mistrusted by geeks everywhere for getting their hopes up in their desire to have a inexpensive and powerful iPod clone.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Slashdotters are opposed to monopolies but they want Apple to have a monopoly in the mp3 player market.
Variety is good, folks. I hope someone comes out with a good quality, cheaper version of the iPod. Who cares if that company is Microsoft? It would only drive down prices for consumers in general.
Seen the interfaces for Server 2003 and XP? They rock, plain and simple.
Ah, you must have straggled in from winsupersite.com.
Hold on to your toque, my friend, I have a feeling things are about to get rough for you.
...because they failed to account for human resources required by the team responsible for porting Clippy to an embedded device.
Microsoft co-branded hardware has always been top notch.
:)
Make sure you get your statements right.
They've licensed good equipment to put the microsoft name on. They haven't manufactured anything good themselves.
If I had a company with the budget to sell in major retail outlets, I could co-brand almost anything out there and call it my own too.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
For the last couple of decades I have marvelled at how clunky Microsoft software looks. Yeah, it's slowly improving, but man, typically their stuff looks like a bunch of geeks designed it --- oh wait...
Anyway, if someone from Microsoft says he thinks competitors will be able to make someone as sexy as an iPod, well I ain't holding my breath. I've heard those promises before from Microsoft, only to be surprised at how truly oddball the final result appeared. So for my money, having someone at Microsoft talk about look-and-feel issues is like hearing a pre-schooler lecture about staying within the lines while coloring. Their heart might be in the right place, but their execution will be lacking.
A player that can do everything an iPod does and can play WMA files - how much would you expect to pay for such a device? $70? $60? No, its just two easy payments of $19.99! If you call now Microsoft will throw in a pair of headphones for no additional cost!
We all know the lesson Steve Job's learned the hard way by continuing to produce more expensive Macs while other people rolled out cheaper PCs.
PCs stole the market for desktop computers away from Apple, eventhough the Apple product was technically superior and more user friendly.
However, the price wasn't right.
This looks like another iteration of the same situation.
Will Apple lower its prices to compete with the iPod clones or will they foolishly lose command of a market again on the belief that superior quality will save them?
Steve
The real question is...how many service packs would it take to get the OS on a microsoft device to be "top notch?"
Hey bill gates.. have you no sence of humor? The boy was joking!!
That or expressing his opinion based on his experiences with microsoft products. -you get that.. it is his opinion based on his experiences. that is the oposite of baseless. and i would mostly agree with him.
--shouldn't you have a goat or something you need to shave?
The world may never know.
does that mean all his bases belong to us?
I have answer to your answers. Clueless.
Like with PCs, Microsoft will allow other companies to engage in the cutthroat and unprofitable business (making and selling mp3 players and operating online music stores), then sit in the background and collect licensing fees.
Certainly makes more sense than the previous story.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I'm afraid I'll see tubgirl so I'm not going to click. Some brave soul please let us know.
between Apple having a monopoly and Microsoft having a monopoly, then yeah. The market has already made it clear that online music stores that sell unencumbered mp3s are just not going to be an option.
Variety is good, folks
Then you had better hope Microsoft fails.
Microsoft reiterated that they are not backing away from their original assertion that the device has the "feel and the look of an iPod"
I know it's asking way too much to read the article, and even the teaser has it wrong. What Microsoft has said is: "I've spent time with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service that will look and feel as good as the iPod product."
Looking and feeling as good is a lot different then having the look and feel of an iPod. That negates all of the patent issues that everyone is complaining about.
Oops, when I wrote, "make someone as sexy as an iPod," I meant to write "something" instead. Although, now that I think about it, the way I originally wrote it is probably just the way marketing droids think...
And in other news:
No $2500 Diablo Clone From Toyota
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
the link is a large picture of Sony's My First Sony line of crappy children's audio devices. It's safe.
Who wants a $50 'Billy' or 'Ballmer' clone. Own them, before they OWN YOU!
Yeah, I've seen XP's interface. It's a pain in the butt, unless you disable all the new XP stuff (which tries to hide everything that's really useful). I've seen 2003's interfrace. It's OK.
There is nothing about 2003 or XP that 'rocks'. Lots of glitz, very little utility. Unless of course you configure it to work like 2000, but then why upgrade?
On my desk here is RedHat 9, RedHat ES, Mac OS 10.3, Windows 2K. Of all of them, OS X has the best interface. Hands down. For shear elegance, ease of use and clarity, it puts XP to shame. And without trying to hide all the useful bits. Oh yeah, and the "home" version of OS X doesn't come with the user set to run in "root" mode by default. XP Home does.
Well, Microsoft hardware is less clunky (for example, the intellimouse explorer)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
After all, it is "NOT THAT HARD" :)
Here is more info
creation science book
Use Linux for a cheap hand held device. Use VideoLAN to play media files. Hack the interface to work on a B&W 640x480 LCD screen, with optional S-Video output jack to play on a TV set or other media device. Use buttons to control the interface, but provide USB ports to plug in mice, keyboards, etc. Use Firewire or Ethernet to communicate with a PC to transfer files. Find cheap PIM software to use it like a PDA as well. Perhaps it can be priced under the cost of an iPod?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Chihuahua's are actually large rats, not dogs, thanks to DNA testing
Rumsfeld banned digital cameras in Iraq
"Mission Accomplished!"
Please pay more attention to important news stories, Denver Post. Don't let that "fact checking" thing get in your way. The people must know.
It's called the XPod, and a thorough and unbiased review is available here.
No $10 Laser-firing robot from Microsoft either!
Maybe they're talking about the Portable Media Center. Its basically a device with a PocketPC size screen that has super high resolution. Plays movies, mp3s, etc.
That depends on the GB you get for $150. Keep in mind that Microsoft can get insanely expensive in the realm of handhelds and tablet PCs, and this would be no different. Still, if they *really* want to spank Apple, I'll be glad to take one for really cheap so long as it played all formats without any stupid DRM-only type restrictions. I have a large CD collection that I've ripped and stored and don't want to go through that all over again because they want WMA-only. Otherwise, I'm springing for the iPod. Stay tuned.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
They've licensed good equipment to put the microsoft name on. They haven't manufactured anything good themselves.
You are wrong! Among the first Microsoft products of 1970's were some fine pieces of hardware. They made an expansion card for the venerable Apple II computer. It was called Microsoft Softcard and it allowed to run CP/M and all its applications on Apple II. Basically it was just a Z-80 daughterboard. They also manufactured RAM expansion card. These cards were good and they were manufactured by themselves.
O the irony - back in 1980 Apple was making the most popular personal computer, expandable like in a hacker's wet dream (lots of expansion slots with well-documented standards allowed anyone create an expansion card to do anything - and they did! and they did!) and Microsoft was just a small manufacturer of third party hardware extension for Apple computers. Plus a vendor of the popular multiplatform BASIC interpreter - and that was all about Microsoft back then. Who could have guessed...
"That depends on the GB you get for $150. Keep in mind that Microsoft can get insanely expensive in the realm of handhelds and tablet PCs, and this would be no different."
I'm guessing that unless they go with a hard drive solution in the 20-60gb range, they'll be hard pressed to match the price of the 4GB compact-flash iPod mini at $249 unless they feel like starting yet another loss-leader device (like their Xbox). Good point about MS tech in PDAs - except for the Dell Axim, most Pocket PCs are pretty expensive.
"Still, if they *really* want to spank Apple, I'll be glad to take one for really cheap so long as it played all formats without any stupid DRM-only type restrictions."
With Microsoft being what they are, I doubt they'll participate in any music service that doesn't have DRM, especially when you figure that the music rights holders will insist on it for fear of loss to 'theft.' Now, if I were competing with MS, I *might* shit my pants if they could get sign-off on non-DRM music from the labels since no one else is doing that besides eMusic. Combining non-DRM music with WMA would be a major selling point for people who otherwise wouldn't give a sh*t about WMA. Luckily, does anyone really see that happening?
"I have a large CD collection that I've ripped and stored and don't want to go through that all over again because they want WMA-only."
Well, besides iTunes and eMusic, all the other services have been stupid enough to go with really lame DRM formats that are a pain in the ass. If those others are dumb enough to do that, why wouldn't MS? Fortunately, going that route would designate them to the same 2nd-tier status that Apple's competitors exist in.
Otherwise, I'm springing for the iPod.
Small tip - buy Apple Care for $59 for your device, it gives you 36 months' coverage after your battery has probably died within 12-18 months. Otherwise, after your 12 months of basic coverage ends, you're looking at $99 to have Apple replace the battery. With the Apple Care, you won't have to pay to replace the battery until after 3 years expire.
Chuck
Well, duh. It's Microsoft. Perhaps you hadn't caught on; this is the way you have to think if you're going to do any posting on slashdot:
- Microsoft == The Great Satan. Other large companies are too, except Oracle and probably Sun.
- Open Source is the only way. It's always better than proprietary.
- Linux is the best OS, but *BSD is right up there. Macs are even OK - never mind that Apple is another large company doing its best to make a lot of money; it's fine because it's not Microsoft!
- Linus Torvalds is God. Richard M. Stallman (RMS) is an OK guy. Eric S. Raymond (ESR) is a wannabe hacker with nutty political views.
- George W is The Great Satan in a different guise. He's really stupid. Conservatives are his little subordinate demons (not daemons, mind you; those are OK).
- America, despite being the wealthiest and healthiest nation on the planet and the one with the highest standard of living, is incorrigibly arrogant, bullying, racist, sexist, prejudiced, incompetent, and generally going to hell in a handbasket. Never say this out loud; simply make snide comments to that effect.
- It is not necessary to weigh the merits of a Microsoft product logically or rationally. Foregone conclusion: it sucks.
- As a matter of fact, nothing has to be done logically or rationally, particularly writing and modding comments.
Ignore these rules and you will be modded down! (You already have been, I see.)There are lots of hard-disk based MP3 players. What exactly is an "iPod clone"? Something with that funny wheel in front? Or any slim MP3 player?
How come there have been so many conflicting reports coming out of Redmond lately? It seems like one person will make an announcement and the next day another spokesman is out there revoking the previous statement.
The last two that really spring to mind are the iPod story and the XP SP2 release for pirates. What is worse is the way the second press release handles the first one. Microsoft never admits to the mistake in the first place and then covers that with some of the stupidest spin I have ever heard, often it makes absolutely no sense and almost always never relates other than on the surface to the first release.
Either Ballmer has stopped taking his medication or he has been taking way too much. It might be time for Bill to arrange a little accident in the warehouse.
can it run CVS?
I am getting tired of my XBOX.
"They've licensed good equipment to put the microsoft name on. They haven't manufactured anything good themselves" Don't bullshit us. Nobody manufactures the hardware themselves, including Apple. All hardware is manufactured by Asian companies. If you want to bash Microsoft, do it without being an idiot.
XP is sold more than any other operating system on earth. You should rather hold your own "toque" before telling others to do so. Its UI is also heavily copied in many other systems, including Mac OS X.
Its UI is also heavily copied in many other systems, including Mac OS X.
Ummm, are you on crack? First off, OS X came out before Windows XP. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to give some examples to back up your assertion. Secondly, sales have very little to do with quality of user interface.
By that logic, BMW must be crap because Toyotas sell better.
Finally, please don't ever use the word toque again until you understand how. And while we're at it, please send Tampa our condolences next week.
Your posting history is a thing of beauty. I can tell you get a lot of love.
OS X wasn't complete until Panther edition, and Apple charged 400$ for that since you weren't offered any upgrade price. Also Apple always offer things before other companies, but that's because their market is very small, so they don't have to worry a lot about support, and there are plenty of people to pay 400$ to Apple to eventually get a real OS. Car comparisons do not make sense in the software industry. If you make the best product and sell a lot, you can reinvest the money you earn back to the R&D as in Microsoft's case. For Apple, though, they have to charge more because they don't sell enough. In fact just check out the prices of shareware. For example, some of the crap out there is around 50$ or 100$. Moveable Type is charging 100$ or more for a blogging tool, but the price of Word itself is around 100$. Clearly charging more for software means that you don't sell enough, thus you have to charge more. Luckily Apple has brand recognition and many people try to make Apple look like a nice company and some people fall into that trap. Apple has to heavily advertise and make their products look cool and attractive to be able to justify their ridiculous high prices.
What the hell is up with microsoft fanboys getting excited that something coming out in the definite futue will be better than what apple has now? Longhorn will be soo much better than Panther, by the time we have Tabby or whatever it will be in 2069.
Somehting coming out soon will be better than the concept Apple came out with years ago. There are rumors that Apple is going to support video play-back and hosting your home directory, so you can have all your files and prefs from any mac. Then Microsoft will come out with something thatthat has some craptastic file-syncing interface for fifty bucks less and call it "the same look and feel."
No it doesn't. Both XP Home and OS X have the default user with Administrator access, which isn't "root" in either OS. In OS X, "root" is root, under Windows "system" is root. And it's not possible to log on as "system." The Windows administrator accounts have a little more access than the OS X ones, but they're both perfectly capable of installing software and messing up a system.
Dude, can I get a hit of that?
I've had this sig for three days.
I had an Apple IIe with a whole collection of cards, but can't remember what any of them were now. I do vaugely remember having a CP/M card, but don't remember anything about it.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Ok, I'll be happy to..
Virtually everyone buys their parts from someone else.
I really enjoy ripping apart equipment to see who builds the components. For example, Dell's have quite a bit of Intel hardware in them. We had to really dig the people at Dell to find out who makes their PowerConnect switches, but it's yet another vendor. I can't remember the company name off-hand, it wasn't anything memorable. For some reason people that buy from Dell are like a cult. They believe Dell is the best, and manufacture all of their parts. They get really upset when I crack one open, and start naming off the real manufacturers. Motherboard, processor, NIC by Intel. Hard drive by whoever. I still have no idea who makes the cases, but I'm sure it's not at the Dell manufacturing plant.
Even my pretty Alienware laptop that I carry everywhere with me is actually made by "Clevo" based out of Taiwan.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Is ot 98Se still the dominant OS out there? I'll bet to date they've sold a lot more 98Se copies than XP.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That whoever is making the "iPod" killer will not have the billions of cash reserves behind them when making the device.
It means they would be less likely to be able to sell such a device for a century or two at a steep loss (like a $300 player being sold for $50).
I'm sure Microsoft is heavily involved in design of at least a few players though. so they have input from the design standpoint. But rarely has that been a strong area for them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Man, I'm sure looking forward to the day where my MP3 player can get viruses and spread spam around the world just like my computer.
Microsoft just needs to modify this ad a little. iPod Parody with Ballmer
Click for offensive t-sh
Of all of them, OS X has the best interface. Hands down. For shear elegance, ease of use and clarity, it puts XP to shame. And without trying to hide all the useful bits.
:) but whenever I hear people talk about how great and intuitive osX is, I wonder where the hell xterm is.
I've never much worked with Macs, pre- or post-X. On the rare occasions I've messed with my friend's, I've never been able to find the shell prompt. I know I can hop online & find the answer in a couple of minutes, but dammit! Macs are supposed to be Gramma easy!
I know a bunch of computer literate people love MacOSX, so it can't be that I know too much (WinXX, Netware, *nix).
So I still want a Powerbook
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
So, exactly how long have you worked for Microsoft?
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
XP is sold more than any other operating system on earth.
:-) it or not. Of course there are exceptions for those buying a DIY whitebox.
Ehhh, "PC's are sold more than any other computer on earth". And you get XP with it, if you like (wipe
Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
More and more we're being treated to refreshing entertainment as MS in one way or another screws up. It makes life worth living again.
What I'd really like is an authentic story from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that Bill Gates stepped in some dogshit and slipped and got really dirty.
And that at the same time it was raining.
And he was heard to curse loudly and rudely.
And that he insulted and pushed an old lady who tried to help.
And that his children disown him - even the one in a state correctional institution and the other in drug rehab and the third in Weight Watchers trying desperately to get back under the 300 lb mark - and his wife leaves him for a Puerto Rican Lesbian lover.
About then I'd be feeling good again.
All I'd really need after that was a new story about how Steve Ballmer was arrested in a gay club soliciting sex.
I've never been able to find the shell prompt
From the Finder...
Type Command-Shift-U or select Utilities from the Go menu. This opens the Utilities folder.
Locate and select the Terminal application. You can do this quickly by typing the first few letters of the app name.
Double-click on the Terminal app or type Command-O or select Open from the File menu to start the app.
Enjoy! (bash default in 10.3, tcsh default in 10.2 and optional in 10.3, csh, sh, and zsh optional. The Console app -- similar access -- lets you monitor log files.)
I guess the philosophy for doing it this way is to keep Gramma from stumbing into the shell by accident. We wouldn't want her to fall and accidentally type rm!
Try Napster. Just like iTunes, it uses DRM. However, if you choose to purchase a track you can burn it and then re-encode it, just like you can with iTunes tracks.
Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
Nobody manufactures the hardware themselves, including Apple.
Somebody must be.
All hardware is manufactured by Asian companies.
Christ, talk about inconsistency, you can't put two sentences together without contradicting yourself.
"In a previous Slashdot story, the Denver Post ran an article ..."
What Microsoft will do that Apple has not, is have these products over-distributed thru mass market consumer electronics retailers. This will bring these players to the mainstream consumer.
Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City and consumer electronics website will feature these devices in large, prominent displays supported by lots of ads. There will be lots of discounting and maybe even some loss leader deals, perhaps some package deals with discounted downloads and/or other items.
That's what MS's marketing and merchandising savvy did for PC's and software. It brought the products to everyone and prices dropped as volume increased. Once the market was "made", more devices from other vendors come forth to compete and prices dropped further.
Sure MS made a bundle, and so did a lot of other vendors. But consumers got a product that they wanted. Not a bad tradeoff if you ask me.
What would Groucho do?
While the iPod looks cool and all it has some limitations that I am not willing to live with. I recently purchased one of these:
7 -30571493-2.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/iRiver_iHP_120/4505-6490_
and am glad to finally have found a legitimate player that supports Ogg (in addition to MP3 and WMV). Not only that but it has FM, can record voice and isn't encumbered with a bunch of proprietary DRM junk. 16 hours on a single charge is nothing to sneeze at either.
No, it isn't anywhere near $50, but there is no way 20GB of music storage is going to be sub $100 any time soon.
We've talked alot about the iPod, but not much about Mehdi's comment "...when we ship our service..." which I assume refers to their equivalent of the iTunes Music Store (iTMS) and other follow-ons. If Mehdi's comment has any basis in fact, then we should be discussing what will happen when MS introduces it's service, not when they supposed introduce some nebulous iPod clone.
With that in mind, we can look at the entire comment in another light. To me, the implication is that the service they introduce will, by design, not be compatible with the iPod. Why else would Mehdi be spending time "...with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service..."?
What is more, we should wonder why MS would introduce only a MS (music service) when Jobs repeatedly says that iTMS alone doesn't make money, a premise which FrankenNapster seems to be proving out. Is it the tie-ins (like Apple's recent tie-in with Westin Hotels)? Is the draw that music has on people that might be so strong as to get them to switch platforms? Or is it that MS can't afford to cede Market Share (MS) in any major market to anyone? When the price per song goes up -- and it will, no matter who is involved -- the one who holds the largest MS (music service) will make the most money. MS will be competing with AOL as much as they will with Apple when they introduce MSMS.
And while I'm at it, one more point. MS's (Microsoft's) entry into MSs (music services) is typical of the strategy they have employed for decades:
Zero product- and market-development costs mean a bigger bottom line. Coca Cola does it (Mr. Pibb, the whole Fanta line), and so does MS (QDOS, the windows paradigm, MultiPlan/Excel, Word, etc., etc., etc.). Copyright and patent laws were intended to promote innovation by giving small concerns a fighting chance against knock-off artists, but that apparently wasn't enough, so anti-trust laws were established. But when neither are wisely enforced, the knock-off artists flourish, whether they exist in Asia or here.
* The cheap price comes from capital flowing from other parts of the company. Let's see MS try to run their music service as an arms-length subsidiary or even a separately-accounted division.
First, "America" is not the United States of America, but either North America or both North and South America depending on whom you ask. That's what the "of America" part indicates. You're just incorrigibly arrogant to misuse the name as you did.
Second, I'm not sure what you're using for measures of health or standard of living; perhaps GNP per capita? The UN Human Development Index consistently places the US around the middle of the top ten, generally behind the Scandinavian countries, Belgium, and Australia (Canada recently slipped behind the US). However the US gets special mention because there is also a Human Poverty Index for developed countries where it places consistently higher. Then again, so do a lot of the other HDI "winners", which is an interesting commentary on the modern world.
That's from here.
As for the Microsoft music player, I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it'd suck anyway. I mean, even their logo is ugly.