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DirecTV Extortion Program stopped by EFF
eticket writes "After several years of an Organized Extortion program DirecTV has been stopped by the EFF. As many of you may know DirecTV has been suing people who purchased card programers even if they had legitimate reasons for them. Many have settled to avoid legal issues. The problem was they had to prove innocence instead of DirecTV proving guilt. The only thing that DirecTV did was say they purchased the card programmer from a site that sold Satellite pirating equipment. Even though there are legitimate uses. Thanks to the EFF for stopping this horrible miscarriage of the legal system. "
IANAL, so, the obvious question that arises is... Will those that settled be able to turn around and sue DirecTV? I know they settled, however, when they signed the settlement paperwork it was under false pretenses. Meaning that the people that bought the equipment probably thought it was illegal (at the time) to own it and settled to avoid further prosecution. I'm sure many didn't bother to contact a lawyer to determine their rights, but after such a change in policy I could see it happening. I mean DirecTV all but admitted that they were going after these people that might have had legitimate uses for it.
Hmmm.
I had to look this one up:
That just sounded like really strange wording to me, but I guess I just don't have that broad of a vocabulary.
Also - DirecTV isn't STOPPING it's hunt... they're merely modifying it:
"The company will no longer pursue people solely for purchasing smart card readers, writers, general-purpose programmers, and general-purpose emulators. It will maintain this policy into the forseeable future and file lawsuits only against people it suspects of actually pirating its satellite signal. DirecTV will, however, continue to investigate purchasers of devices that are often primarily designed for satellite signal interception, nicknamed "bootloaders" and "unloopers.""
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Buried deep in the press release:
DirecTV will, however, continue to investigate purchasers of devices that are often primarily designed for satellite signal interception, nicknamed "bootloaders" and "unloopers."
Doesn't sound like DirecTV will be cowing to anyone's demands.
Also, smart quotes are stupid in MS Word, and they are stupid in Unix documents.
While I guess it's a step in the right direction, reading this part just drives me nuts:
"The company also promised that it will investigate every substantive claim of innocence it receives. If purchasers provide sufficient evidence demonstrating that they did not use their devices for signal theft, DirecTV will dismiss their cases."
Oh, now I have to provide "sufficient evidence" that I'm not guilty? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on their side?
Basically, the bully is going to try to be a little nicer.
Ahh, thanks.
As someone is the market for cable/satellite service I had been looking for a way to really differentiate between Dish Network and DirectTV. I think my decision has now been made. Or, does Dish Network also like to sue people?
Casual Games/Downloads
...I believe it's long overdue. What relief do those who settled now get? IANAL, but I don't believe they can sue over a settled case. DirecTV got what they wanted; they threw a scare into potential pirates. Do you think they care about what little PR they're going to get over this? Of course not; it'll blow over by tomorrow and we'll move on to the next miscarriage of justice.
Don't be a looter...and yes, I know that it's spelled with an "A" instead of an "E".
I find it appalling that people nowdays act in a manner to prove not innocence, but their lack of guilt, rather than put their feet down and say "I'm innocent until proven guilty, and if you think I'm guilty then it's your job to prove it."
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
Clearly, I don't believe that 170,000 people bought card programmers just to play with the technology, but surely some percentage of those users purchased them for uses other than piracy-- however as a someone who has no experience with DirecTV, I can't imagine what they are?
So what exactly are the legitimate uses of having a card programmer?
The best way to stop such DMCA nonsense is not in the courts, it is by grassroots public awareness. If somebody tries to sell you a DirectTV subscription, or a Lexmark printer (with DMCA protected non-3rd party ink cartridges) let them know exactly why you will not purchase it. If they hear it more than once or twice, this will work its way back to headquarters. Eventually the execs will clue in that they are pissing off enough potential customers that they will back off, even if the law was on their side.
My rights don't need management.
Not that I have anything to hide... really.
Is everyone forgetting that DirecTV has effectively shut down the "pirates" (for now) by phasing out the last of the "hackable" smart cards? Between that and their soaring subscriber base (especially when compared to cable), it's no longer cost effective for them to continue with these tactics, nor is it worth the negative publicity. I'm all for the EFF, but if the RIAA found a way to stop 99.9% of file sharing, they'd drop their lawsuits too. Hate them all you want, but they are only fighting a perceived threat, using what they consider to be a deterent. If there's nothing left to deter, they aren't going to spend the money on it.
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
As a business, the worst thing to do is to sue your own customers for some obscure reasons...... the same goes for RIAA!
-----
"If everything seems to be going well, you obviously don't know what the hell is going on." - Murphy's Law
Its not Slashdotted, but Akamai is down today, so many of us on the east coast can't reach it. (Anyone know the IP address?)
Reality has a liberal bias
Perhaps Directv is backing off a bit now that they have ended/replaced the easily hackable older cards (h and hu/p3 cards). I'm sure that once the newer cards are hacked and these hacked cards fall into the hands of signal stealers, Directv will become more offensive minded again.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Directly from the article:
"If purchasers provide sufficient evidence demonstrating that they did not use their devices for signal theft, DirecTV will dismiss their cases. EFF and CIS will monitor reports of this process to confirm that innocent device purchasers are having their cases dismissed."
So you are STILL guilty until proven innocent. This saga is not over yet.
Some people might not have even known that owning the cards were legal. When presented with such a demanding document to "settle or else" it makes most people scared. And you're right.. most people will settle just to make it go away... However, if you are under the impression that it's illegal to own such a device.. they have records you purchased it, etc.. Of course you would settle!
Hmmm.
I suspect part of the reason DirecTV has softened on this is that the particular series of access cards these programmers were designed to hack are no longer functional. In mid-april DirecTV switched from the older encryption stream decoded by the (hackable) P3 cards to the new encryption only decodable by the P4 or higher series. They figured that few enough legit customers were still running on old P3 cards (they'd been sending P4's to all subscribers with P3's for months) that they could safely shut down the old cards entirely. So DirecTV promising not to be so heavy-handed in the future is a moot point. Anyone buying a smartcard programmer to hack DirecTV now is an idiot throwing their money away.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Everyone thinks this is due to the EFF's hard work. As much as I have great respect for the EFF and honor thier initiatives, this deceision was not due to thier hard work.
DirecTV swapped out thier P3 cards and shut down mass piracy in April. They have sued over 24000 people. With piracy down to 0 for them, they will have a hard time convincing courts since thier arguments are not nearly as strong without all of those web sites hawking hacked cards. I think this agreement to be a "kinder and gentler DirecTV " is purely due to them cleaning up the stream, and not the hard work of the EFF. If there were still 1000s of hacked cards out there, rest assured, DirecTV would continue its extortion campaign.
DTV has recently shut down the HU stream, the only hackable signal thus killing the demand for these equipment. This PR throwing a meanless bone, in reality it is no longer a significant concern for them anymore.
206.14.210.244
The fact that the only way to protect people was to convince the company that they should play nice is not a victory, it is a horrible defeat. The EFF should be ashamed of this hollow "triumph", and anyone who cares about their rights should remember that, if DirectTV wants to, there's nothing stopping them from returning to their old policy.
In the military you are held accountable for what your subordinates do. Unless they make a conscious, conspiratorial effort to keep you out of the loop, you are presumed to know what they are doing. In other words, 999 out of 1000 cases, a noncom or officer is presumed to know exactly what they are doing. Therefore they are held responsible if they are violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Unlike the civilian world, in the military world, the buck stops with whoever is in charge where the violation was occurring, and damage can spill over into higher ranking personnel.
The only way to stop stuff like this is to apply that standard to the civilian business world on criminal activity. Don't punish the stockholders by fining the company because Mr. Big Rich White CEO claims he didn't know what was going on. Bullshit, he was hired specifically to know what at a minimum his underlings were doing. Can you imagine the fallout of an army major saying "gee Mr. JAG Officer, I had no idea that lieutenant smith was killing civilians while we were occupying this village." The JAG would laugh his ass off as military police escorted at least the lt. and probably the major too off to a brig.
Personal responsibility is out of style in America today. We want power, but so many don't want the responsibilities that come with it. Look at the female general who is trying to cry like a little girl that she "didn't know that the abuse was going on in Abu Ghraib." Bullshit. With a command that small in such tight quarters you'd have to know. Let the DirecTV executives get hit directly instead of the company and that will scare off anyone that would follow in their footsteps.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Mod down, karma whore. eff.org isn't going down over a mere slashdotting.
those ads on tv, and the phrase in the article "Stealing Satellite SIGNALS"... Now i may be way off base, but how the heck does one steal a satellite signal? They are beamed to everyone in north america/world... Basically the phrase stealing satellite signals could be applied to someone who has a dish on their roof, but no decoder, since they are collecting the satellite signals.... I mean really, its not stealing the signals, its illegally decoding the signal that the problem...
Kinda offtopic but I picked one of these up for $10. the price was right. As for the ad? two clicks...
No one ever says, 'I can't read that ASCII E-mail you sent me.'
So... if DirecTV sues me for interception and theft of their broadcast signal, can I countersue them for trespassing?
After all, their signal is entering my property without permission.
OK, so maybe that's a bit far-fetched. Nonetheless, their signal is broadcast, I cannot help but intercept it. Anytime I stand outside, their signal is bombarding my body. Why should it be illegal for me to interpret a signal that I am receiving?
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
Thanks troll, I'll bite.
:)
Smart Cards are used in computer security, among other things. Google is your friend...
Waitaminute, he's a troll
No one ever says, 'I can't read that ASCII E-mail you sent me.'
I've debated getting one to screw around with. No real reason, just because I think smart cards are neat. We have them on our university IDs for holding money and to ID ourselves to some kinds of computers (like Sunblades). I think it's an interesting technology, so I've debated getting a reader/writer and a couple of cards to mess with.
Also if I were going to do access control for anything, smart card technology would be the first place I'd look. It is FAR more secure than something like magnetic stripe and allegedly more reliable. If I had a bussiness that needed key-type access restrictions to rooms or computers or the like, I'd probably try and do it with smartcards.
And before someone asks, I have cable so I'm wouldn't even able to intercept the DirectTV signal without other hardware.
I'm usually an anti-big-business super-liberal type, but I don't mind this at all.
Card hackers piss me off. DirecTV service is great. It's worth paying for. You get a hell of a lot more than your average cable service for the same price in both volume of channels and quality of picture.
If you don't want to pay for TV, don't watch it. You'll be better off anyway.
This totally reaks of the auto industry. I was even told by a [credible shut my mouth source] that a company will go after you even if they don't have a case, just to see if you will settle.
kulakovich
what DTV was doing was similar to blackmailing everybody they found for owning a pencil and paper, for such could be used to design a scam on them.
I really ought to send EFF some money today, they are doing good things in the face of onerous greedhead attacks.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Oh, and I guess you think that everything that you get off the internet from a Google search is 100% accurate. If that is the case, I have some really nice beachfront property that I would like to sell you.
I agree that they weren't doing the right thing, but come on, stealing from DirecTV (which we all know is what every one of those people was doing) is just as wrong. Nuff Said.
Yea, cause I wouldn't want to use a smart card for a encryption scheme, or perhaps as a research tool for a new product i'm working on...or hell, just to hang on the wall.
It's nice that DirecTV has agreed to restrain itself, but the REAL problem here is a legal system that allows a giant corporation to bankrupt and besmirch an individual without FIRST having to provide concrete proof that they have a case.
This is what DirecTV was doing, and it's what the RIAA is doing now. This has GOT to stop.
Corporatism != Free Market
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
The main problem w/ a suit like this is that it doesn't matter who is legally correct. Direct/RIAA just assume that they can afford the frivolous suit and you can't. That you'll panic a fold. And this is true in most cases. However, if you can front the money, and win I have a suggestion on how you can make Direct/RIAA pay for your litigation costs in the end (i.e. make the court work as a loser-pays system), assuming you're in Federal court.
The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP) allow for you to make a settlement offer, and if rejected the rejector may have to pay your legal fees.
Rule 68. Offer of Judgment
At any time more than 10 days before the trial begins, a party defending against a claim may serve upon the adverse party an offer to allow judgment to be taken against the defending party for the money or property or to the effect specified in the offer, with costs then accrued. If within 10 days after the service of the offer the adverse party serves written notice that the offer is accepted, either party may then file the offer and notice of acceptance together with proof of service thereof and thereupon the clerk shall enter judgment. An offer not accepted shall be deemed withdrawn and evidence thereof is not admissible except in a proceeding to determine costs. If the judgment finally obtained by the offeree is not more favorable than the offer, the offeree must pay the costs incurred after the making of the offer . The fact that an offer is made but not accepted does not preclude a subsequent offer. When the liability of one party to another has been determined by verdict or order or judgment, but the amount or extent of the liability remains to be determined by further proceedings, the party adjudged liable may make an offer of judgment, which shall have the same effect as an offer made before trial if it is served within a reasonable time not less than 10 days prior to the commencement of hearings to determine the amount or extent of liability. (emphasis added)
So, as soon as you get the "we're suing" papers, and you are completely, "no F'ing way" innocent make a Offer in Judgment of $1. If Direct/RIAA takes the $1 offer, your legal worries are over. If they don't take the offer, you go to trial knowing that if you win, Direct/RIAA must pay your legal fees (from the offer forward).
Now you pay up front while they sue you and it takes your time, but ultimately you get the cash back (provided you win).
I'm not sure about other countries, but in Canada you can't even purchase US dish service legally. You can purchaes the Canadian equivilent... but for many of us it doesn't carry the shows we want and most of the rest is crap.
You *can* pirate the signal, but you aren't allowed to purchase it. Go figure.
(To be fair, I believe I've heard that this was a "cultural preservation" thing, more instituted by the gov't to protect local broadcasts)
What legitimate uses for the card programmers are there?
This is NOT about card hackers, RTFA, it is about legitimate card users, like ME, who got harrassed by DirecTV and their goons becuase a smart card with a flashable chip was $80 at an "evil hacker" site, and $350 from a big retailer..
ejumacate yersef, dumass
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Of course they stopped. DTV killed of the HU cards a couple months ago. The 'unloopers' (those things DTV was suing everyone over - they were used to get into the HU card to program it) are now useless since the current DTV card is unaffected by them. Nice spin though, if you didn't know better you might actually believe the EFF accomplished something.
I personally find it difficult to draw any real compairson between DirecTV and RIAA, other than the fact they sue their users.
There is a BIG difference here between the two. Stealing music is one thing. You actively go to a website or P2P network specifically to find a particular song/album, and then actively download it. In other words, its a pull.
Getting DirecTV is, ultimately no different than getting your local channels via the old rabbit ears. DirecTV beams that signal with a VERY wide footprint to the earth, using RF. Its really silly to tell someone that they are not allowd to recieve a RF signal that is being sent directly to your house.
They are using regulations that were put up to prevent cable theft (again, not the same thing as simply recieving RF signals from an orbiting satellite) to ensure a revenue stream. Satellite is a push, not a pull. That data is pushed directly to your property, you dont pull it to you.
Cable theft is again different as well, as you plug a device directly to the cable company's property (the cable line) and actively pull data from their equipment to your television.
Now, if the wanted to sue someone, they could base it on a breech of contract for using a non-directTV provided card, or for opening the case of the reciever, or something of that nature (which would require writing such language into the contract, but suing somenone for using equipment that they purchased, not leased, to recieve a signal that is already being pushed to their house is ludicrous.
God bless the EFF.
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
Even some banks issue smart card readers for accessing one's account from home securely, via the encryption key on the smart card they issue. They have plenty of applications in home security and automation.
The last keyboard I bought (at a clearance) even had a smart card reader built in. I don't use it, but the Dell-branded kybd was cheap. True, it's reading and not writing, but the point is that Smart Cards aren't exactly contraband by and reasonable measure.
Troll.
Only in criminal cases are your 'innocent until proven guilty." Under civil cases it's a preponderance of evidence.
I attended the Layer one conference this last weekend in LA where the head EFF attorney sdpoke. Major Props to these wonderful defenders of our freedoms!
Tyler: You don't know where ive been, Lou. YOU DONT KNOW WHERE IVE BEEN!!
Some progress has been made, but not nearly enough. DirecTV will still threaten people for mere possession of devices, and you're at their mercy as to what constitutes "sufficient evidence" that you didn't steal their signal.
... use their devices for signal theft ...
:-)
This whole business of "signal theft" is getting out of hand. The signal was theirs only as long as it was in their circuits, as it could be said that the electrons in their equipment are their personal property.
But the electromagnetic waves induced in space by their transmitters, how the hell can they be property? OK, maybe they induce the near-field boundary disturbance directly, but beyond that the wave is self-inducing and self-propagating.
If the EM signal that reaches my house is indeed their property, what the hell is it doing entering my property without my permission? If they have the right to sue for signal theft, then I have the right to sue for trespass.
It just goes to show that the law is a real ass when it comes to technology. "Signal theft" and "music piracy" both rank among the top legal idiocies of the modern age.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
I will give you that much, I understand. Here is the thing - some folks will sell other folks access to these signals for a fee. For a much smaller fee, actually, than DirectTV charges to do it legitimately. So at that point, when you have groups or individuals who are setting up hardware that will allow access to the premium channels, and selling it for a profit for themselves, and these groups and individuals have nothing to do with DirectTV, then you might have a problem.
It's like people selling cable boxes for cheap, so that they can make a profit, giving other folks access to premium cable channels that the cable co. would charge them a lot more for.
So in that sense, the "pirates", in these types of situations, they have no overhead, and they are making money off of those signals. On the other hand, if they are already radiating through your brain, that's a different situation altogether.
If you thought that use of miscarriage was unusual look up "travesty". I tried google and Wiktionary and didn't get much, so to give it away as I recall a printed dictionary definition: A terrible miscarriage of justice.
OH MY GAWD! Call the press!! The EFF actually DID something for a change!!!
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the EFF being as active as it should be in fighting the infringement of our digital rights. Where are the protests against the DMCA? Where are the organized letter writing campaigns?
What purpose does the EFF actually have?
Hmmm... so much for "Innocent until proven guilty". Personally, I'd countersue for harassment.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
"Thank you, your honor! With God's help, I'll conquer this terrible affliction!"
Breakfast served all day!
DirecTV recently completed their campaign to replace all existing H-cards (the older spec cards with which these card readers were usually used) with the new V4 card that has yet to be broken. The H-card feed from the satellites was recently turned off entirely... rendering the vast majority of these devices (and the software that programs them) useless.
So, they effectively closed the loop on their own, and decided that they'd let the EFF "win", since the need for them to pursue these lawsuits suddenly went away anyway.
I rather look forward to a confrontation between our purchasing and legal departments and DirecTV!
When I was a kid we had one of those bigass housetop antennas and if you moved it around you could get channels (I assume) was from other broadcast areas. Were we "stealing"?
My uncle loves those super sensitive ultra band radios where you can pick up FM stations from like Mexico and Canada and from other really far away places, is he stealing?
I put up a dish with hardware on it that allows me to recieve Directv am I stealing? I suppose the difference is you have to actively "decode" the signal so I suppose that makes it a little more sticky but these signals are landing on my property what I do with them is my business, it's not like I'm splicing into the neighbor's cable, this is like charging me for using the sun's rays or something.
--- www.f-theocean.com
The situation is no different with cable descramblers.
Actually it's completely different.
To get a cable signal provided to your house you have to sign a contract with a cable provider. Said contract explicitly forbids descrambling their signal. To do so is breach-of-contract.
Now, I'd like you to show me this implicit contract that DTV supporters seem to believe that every person in America signed with them. Sorry but just 'coz they're a monstrous company doesn't mean I choose to let them sign my own name for me and take away my right to do whatever I please in my own house.
Another problem is how they "investigate".
Almost a year ago Poulson told us, "Backed by a legion of lawyers and empowered by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, former FBI agents in the company's Office of Signal Integrity have staged raids against businesses that deal in piracy equipment, seizing customer lists and inventory with armed law enforcement officers as backup."
He was not the only one to report that some of the lawsuits were filed against people who didn't even own a satellite dish. (I think Wired News also had an article about this, but I can't dig up the hyperlink at the moment. This boneheaded move predates Murdoch's takeover, by the way.)
I've been making friends and family aware of this fiasco ever since I first heard of it, hoping that none of them will reward with their business what could be described as "extortion".
I wish the names of those who made this decision could be posted somewhere, and archived, before they move on to other employers and continue spreading the contempt.
Of course, a company has every right to resist "criminal" acts. But there is good reason to believe, here, that this firm knew they'd cast the net too widely.
It smells like a money-grab - the easy way out (compared to seeking relief in criminal courts, where there are laws on the books to protect them from the real baddies).
By the same logic they could've been suing anyone who made anything that could have been used to facilitate the "theft". Charming.
<grrr>
I know this is a stretch to hope for, but might there be some actual lawyers around to clarify...?
To me this seems a contradiction in our justice system. Essentially, the US Govt declared OJ not guilty in one court, and then guilty in the second. I understand that it was two different court systems, one criminal and one civil, and that there's a different standard, "proven beyond doubt" vs. "preponderance of evidence". However both courts are still under the single system of the US Govt.
We also have the constitutionally provided right to not be tried twice for the same crime, or "double jeopardy". I guess what I don't understand is the legal or moral reasons why we allow these types of civil cases at all. To me, "not being tried twice" is a pretty simple concept. It sure is different from "we'll try you once, and if that doesn't work try you again in a second court that by the way has a lesser standard of guilt."
Especially when the punishments meted out are pretty much equivalent in terms of ruining someone's life. Owing someone millions of dollars that you'll never be able to pay off in your lifetime sounds just as bad (to me at least) as spending years in jail.
Anyway, just curious why that system is like it is.
The whole point of SmartCards is that, unlike a ROM or fixed key, they have a processor in them and can't be duplicated. What good does a SmartCard programmer do you for pirating DirecTV's signal?
It seems to me their engineering must be completely screwed up if people can duplicate their SmartCards.
DirecTV also agreed to change its pre-lawsuit demand letters to explain in detail how innocent recipients can get DirecTV to drop their cases. The company also promised that it will investigate every substantive claim of innocence it receives. If purchasers provide sufficient evidence demonstrating that they did not use their devices for signal theft, DirecTV will dismiss their cases.
So basically, you still get a letter threatening a lawsuit. Instead of saying "pay up now and we'll drop the case" it says "come up with evidence supporting you and we'll drop the case."
extortion
1. The act of extorting; the act or practice of wresting anything from a person by force, by threats, or by any undue exercise of power; undue exaction; overcharge.
Big deal. Instead of them forcing you to directly pay them, they're forcing you to go out of your way, and spend your own time presenting them with evidence, which (in their very own highly impartial secret court) they may or may not decide is good enough reason for them to drop the case. Basically they want you to get on your knees and kiss their arse.
As mentioned in other threads, DTV simply agreed because of tech. advances. If their new scheme gets broken they'll be right back at it.
I see this whole press release as more mutual political agreement than anything else. EFF gets to claim a victory, DTV gets to look less hard-assed...but nothing really changed.
DirecTV cracking lingo has always confused me. For a while, DirecTV was apparently using "HU cards" when I thought a HuCard was the media that PC Engine games came on. (PC Engine was called TurboGrafx-16 in some markets.)
I know if I saw somebody buying five 100 Ohm resistors at Radio Shack, I would assume they were building a JTAG.
But don't assume that building a JTAG (IEEE 1149.1) boundary-scan test harness => stealing TV programming. Digital logic and CPU design courses in university computer science often use FPGAs, and many FPGAs expose a 1149.1 port for uploading netlist data and debugging the circuit.
Here's the web site of JTAG Technologies B.V., and here's some free software for communicating with 1149.1 devices.
Legal fees for defense: $5,000+
Settlement payout: $3,000.
Take your pick. That is why many people settled.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
Apparently they have technology to detect pirated cards and can shut them down via the satelite signal. I recall a Black Sunday event that they did just that, burned out the pirated cards or something like that.
I had to change one of my DirecTV cards recently, they sent me a new one and told me what to do to change cards. This helps them prevent theft.
As for the argumet that the signal is beamed into your skull, so is paying for a movie ticket and then claiming you have a right to videotape the movie. You are violating copyright laws by making an illegal copy for the purposes of using it later or selling it or distributing it. Just like those FBI Warnings on VHS tapes, for viewing purposes only, no recording. DirecTV subscribers have the right to decode the signal and make copies of broadcasts for viewing purposes, but not to spread around and sell, etc. If you do not have a DirecTV subscription, you do not have a right to their media, peroid.
Just like the Police 911 CB signals are also beamed into your skulls does not give you the right to broadcast on that signal.
Use common sense for once, seesh! Quit being such a cheapskate and actually pay for something for once.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Please, if you're going to make the argument, think it through. Decoding a satellite signal is not the same thing as:
eating the food in my fridge
using my telephone
not paying a cab fare
shoplifting DVDs
setting fire to pre-schools
dropping an atomic bomb on Hollywood*
Let's have a rational debate, please.
* I'm all in favor of nuking Hollywood, but this is for reasons unrelated to DirecTV hacking
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
From their "About" Page: "The Washington Alliance of Technology Workers is an organization of high-tech workers and allies joining together to provide an effective voice in the legislative and corporate arenas, and to advocate for improved benefits and workplace rights."
Veritas patesco per quaestio questio. Truth is revealed through questions.
What bothers me is, they want you to prove to them your innocent for the people that got the pre-lawsuit letters. Fuck that shit, tell DirecTV its not your god damn business what i do with equipment for myself. After hearing this, I think I'll get Digital cable instead.
even if they had legitimate reasons for them
?
Oh, paleeease. Ok, if DirectTV didn't really have any evidence that the user indented to pirate the service then they have no case and should not be permitted to make a revenue stream out of settlements. But don't try to claim these people actually had a "legitimate reason" to use this equiptment. They're all freakn' bootleggers of the highest order. At least be honest about that.
wouldn't something like the SETI@home project be stealing someone elses signal ?? kind of OT but isn't that what they are doing ? decoding tranmissions from space ?? maybe I am wrong
You are "stealing" something, when you choose to actively intercept the signal - you are "stealing" power. Every time you use an antenna, you are using a wireless power transmission service (sure, it isn't the world-wide power system Tesla envisioned, but it is his "radio" system). A few milliwatts sucked here means (if all wattage of the satellite/transmitter is used up) that a "legit" user can't get the signal (or they get the signal and the rest goes to crap). Now, personally, I don't think any transmitter is ever "maxed out" - those things are huge (and for geosync orbit distances, they have to be) - but technically, you are stealing power (I have always wondered if you could build a multi-antenna system and suck out enough power from the ambient RF that permeates our world to do something like charge a few batteries - and whether anyone would care?)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
What you do in your own home with your own property is your own business and no-one elses. Aslong as it doesnt directly harm anyone (leaking radiation, shooting at people, jamming things etc).
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
The EFF has just added on another story on the topic... an Appeals Court has just ruled that showing a defendant has DirecTV hacking equipment isn't enough to create liablity. DirecTV needs to bring evidence that the devices were actually used to steal DirecTV's services sucessfully.
DirecTV, aka DAVE, will continue their witchhunt until it is no longer a viable source of revenue. That includes the toll they incur for any negative press on their actions.
Not that we are totally without recourse. I took great joy in personally killing a six-digit contract that Hughes Network Systems was virtually guaranteed to win because of their sister divison's actions. The salesperson probably has a picture of me on his dartboard thanks to the smirk I wore when I told him the fate of the deal he thought was a slam dunk.
Supporting the ACLU and the EFF is all well and good, but derailing the money train is a far more effective tool for getting a company's attention. It also feels pretty good, too.
It is tax deductible. You can support them HERE. I did.
We also have the constitutionally provided right to not be tried twice for the same crime, or "double jeopardy". I guess what I don't understand is the legal or moral reasons why we allow these types of civil cases at all. To me, "not being tried twice" is a pretty simple concept. It sure is different from "we'll try you once, and if that doesn't work try you again in a second court that by the way has a lesser standard of guilt."
Read the actual amendment.
(From Cornell's US Constitution page)
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
He was not "twice put in jeopardy of life or limb". It says nothing about civil trials.
is that even if a person is 100% innocent (as some were), it will cost that person money to defend a lawsuit.
When DirecTV was sueing people based solely on circumstantial evidence as skimpy as purchasing of smartcard readers, the defendent had to waste time/money and possibly pay an attorney hundreds or thousands of dollars to get to the point where DirecTV's lawyers would decide this person really is innocent and drop the case.
And even then, the innocent defendent doesn't get their attorney fees paid for by the plaintiff. If even 1% of these thousands that were sued were innocent, that's too much!
And that's why people are so up in arms about DirecTV's lawsuits! It's an abuse of the legal system.
For example, the fact that people like you apparently don't understand the difference between homicide and wrongful death, or the difference between criminal and civil proceedings and judgements, but feel obligated to talk about them anyway because you were allowed to be a third party participant via CourtTV. Maybe you should take a basic Civics class before you try to analyze a court system you are obviously 100% clueless about. Just a thought...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Some will say that a story like this renews their faith in the system. For me it reinforces the belief that the system is broken. Notice that our wonderful government, of the people, by the people and for the people, did absolutely nothing to step in and slap DirecTV down. It took a dedicated group of individuals and the money that others donated to support them. Without their intervention the government would have happily let DirecTV continue to act as judge, jury and cashier. Our civil legal system still works through trial by combat. Only the weapons have changed.
As far as we know, the alien's legislature hasn't passed the DMCA yet.
I had a pregnant wife, a new job, a new house, and now a $3500 secret. What a nice world.
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
Sure, everyone else is right. They can stop the extortion techniques, there's nothing that can be taken from them now. With the shutdown of the HU, and the P4 card now the mainstay for x amount of timeframe. It'll be a cold day in hell before Directv has to sue anyone for hacking again.
No biggie, I raise my glass to both sides of the fence on this one. Without the hackers, innovation in Directv's systems would not have taken place. It sounds bass ackwards I know. But the fact that they were both constantly chasing each others tails over this, lead to a better system being built. The better system being built, circled around a few times, and we come to todays current setup. Security has won over the Joe Hackers of the world for now.
Dish Network is doing the same thing, the new boxes are all cardless. Its their way of going down that same road.
Free TV is like heroin. Once you get it in your veins, its gonna hurt physically when you give it up.
As far as the lawsuit issue goes. I have no real feelings on it, I never thought it was exactly proper. I never investigated the legal ramifications of it, or anything close to it. I just always thought it stank like bulls hit ya know.
The point is that the difference is pointless semantics. It's merely a system by which an opponent with a large legal budget can bankrupt anyone, for anything.
Eventually, one trial is going to go against you for some reason and you're going to end up in jail or deep in debt, not for the actual offense, but some minor related event.
Fuck, why not just skip criminal trials, with these stupid standards of evidence and jump straight to a state-assisted civil trial. Don't bother locking up the criminals for crime, bankrupt them and then lock them up in the poor house.
The point is that the difference is pointless semantics
You obviously do not know the difference. By acquitting Simpson of the murder charges, the jury was, in effect, saying "we do not believe that there is enough evidence to assuage our doubt that he actively participated in killing these two individuals, or performed some intentional action or actions, with intent to kill, that led to their death.
By convicting him of wrongful death and more importantly two counts of battery (neither of which the original post bothered to mention, mind you) - one against Goldman, the other his wife, the jury was effectively saying "though you may not have killed them, you are responsible, to some degree, for the loss that the grieving relatives have suffered in the form of companionship and/or support."
In addition, if the original poster hadn't just been talking out of his ass, he'd have mentioned that in CA you can not have your pension garnered in order to pay on judgements against you, so Simpson stayed sitting pretty though he lost most of what he had previously collected.
I love how people take a position on shit like this, even though they obviously have paid absolutely no attention to it, and have no clue what they're talking about. I'm going to add this to the "McDonald's Lady Was Just An Idiot" story that keeps making the rounds among people who obviously have no fucking clue what actually happened before, during, or after the lawsuit. Just another example of someone with a soapbox that's just as empty as their damn head.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
1. pay for a study that proves their signals cause cancer
2. get cancer
3. profit!
4. er..
because they beam a signal into your skull?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Hmm, seems to be a common argument, you beam a signal into someone's skull and then they think that gives them the right to pirate the service.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Ok for those of you who use this argument that DirecTV beams a signal into your skull, which gives you the right to use the signal as you see fit, I got a question for you.
What if your neighbors decide to take the signal from your cell phones and cordless phones, as the signal beams into their skulls, and then decode the conversations and post them as audio files on the Internet or use them for personal purposes of entertainment? How would you feel then?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
They already made their money. They used their size to ream the pockets of thousands of people for way more than they ever would have made, even if the users HAD been paying for service. They've nearly completed the rollout of their latest SmartCard, which has no public hacks available for it, and have all but eliminated the old streams, leaving no hacking left to do at this point for the average joe. They have absolutely nothing to lose by pulling this PR stunt, because they're DONE. Game Over. Dave Wins.
It doesn't matter though. The point is that the outcome is FUCKING STUPID. Anyone can look at this and say "that's just wrong". Only someone with a vested interest in the current court system would defend this insanity.
You can have the most complicated and intricate process imaginable, but if the outcome is fucked, then it doesn't matter.
Oh, now I have to provide "sufficient evidence" that I'm not guilty? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on their side?
Basically, the bully is going to try to be a little nicer.
Yep, that's what it sounds like.
How about sending this in reply:
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
"we do not believe that there is enough evidence to assuage our doubt that he actively participated in killing these two individuals, or performed some intentional action or actions, with intent to kill, that led to their death.
ie: "We can't prove you killed them."
though you may not have killed them, you are responsible, to some degree, for the loss that the grieving relatives have suffered
ie: "We think you're responsible for killing them."
How else can someone be "responsible...for the loss" unless they caused the loss??
DirecTV basically crushed all piracy of their service a month and a half ago. Now they agree with the EFF to change their tactics. They probably would have been changing them anyways when they know that even if someone has a smartcard programmer now they aren't pirating their service anymore.
With RF, it is basically the same thing - the antenna feeds into a coil tuned to a certain frequency, this AC signal is filtered out and amplified (very simple explanation - in practice it is much more complex) - to form the sound or video signal.
Now, the electric company has a way to detect coils buried under their lines, and they will get you for stealing power, as well. In theory (but not in practice), a radio or a satellite company could tell how many users were listening, based on the the amount of power being pulled from their system...
As I noted, the amount of power pulled per radio/reciever is very tiny compared to the power of the transmitter - but you are pulling a small amount of power, and the company is paying for that (now, one could argue that the power is free from satellites, since they likely use RTGs or solar panels and batteries for the transmitters)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
> "if we had some tort reform in the US, and insituted a "loser pays" system, then the truly innocent could afford to fight the good fight to the end rather than settle, and legal persecutions in the US courts would all but disappear." What a nice way to ensure that poor people who are injured by some defective corporate product (common) or service provider (also common) would never be able to sue in court for fear of receiving a punitive judgement that would impoverish them for generations. Corporate lawyers have all the cards in their hands already, but what the hell, lets just give them a major one. Oh you right wingers are crafty ones, aren't you... For example, now in California, punitive damages in medical malpractice cases are limited to a TOTAL of $250,000. In other words, a few months of basic medical care in a modern hospital. (not intensive care - that would cost $250k in days.. How much medical care do you think that will buy a person who was permanently injured by a company as a 'cost of doing business'. Nomatter what torturous, lifelong, condition their negligence has doomed somebody to, the MAX that can be awarded to that person is $250k And of course, unless they are paying upfront, their lawyer would typically get 1/3 on contingency. A law like the idiot above proposed would prevent a lawyer from taking it at all.. even if it was a literal slam dunk.. So, now, few lawyers will take the cases.. because the corporations fight like hell and these cases often take months or even years...
IMHO, *any* signal that is transmitted over the air and into my skull is meant to be freely received.
What is the meaning of a transmitted signal if not to be received?
---
IMHO, of course.
May the SOURCE be with you.
Tahya al-Moqawama al-Iraqiya!
11 September will soon come again to the American imperialist pigs. You will soon learn again what it is like to have your cities ablaze, to have your wives and children dying around you.
You will remember what you have done to our cities! We remember al-Fallujah, and we remember Jenin, and we remember everything. You will pay a thousand times over for what you have done to us.
Long live the Resistance in Iraq.
And a soon death to American pigs.
Tahya al-Moqawama al-Iraqiya!