Indiana Launches Statewide Productivity System

TaylorJo writes "Lt. Governor of Indiana Kathy Davis today unveiled a new technology program designed to give all Hoosiers free access to a full suite of computer software tools. The SimIndiana software permits residents to access their personal files and applications from any computer at any time. The software can be downloaded on the SimIndiana site, but requires Windows, and registration on the site, to use it. The program also provides an email address and remote storage on SimIndiana servers."

Comments

Multi-platform

[AKAImBatman]

The software can be downloaded on the SimIndiana site, but requires Windows, and registration on the site, to use it.

See? They should have written it in Java.

Re:Multi-platform

[micolous]

Just because it's Java doesn't mean it will run on everything. It will run on a lot of things, I'll give you that, but I personally find the Linux x86 version of Java to have many errors with it's forms that aren't present in the Win32 version. My bank's online banking system was a great example of this, then they started using HTML to do everything (probably after people complaining).

Flash is a slightly better option, as the specs are published such that you can make your own player/interpreter. Though it won't work on old hardware. Using scripts on the server end and allowing access via a web browser would be best, and possibly have the option of wether or not you wish to use Flash for the more techincal bits that HTML can't do.

They could have written it in <insert open scripting language here>, using <insert favourite widget toolkit>. That would have done the trick, provided it's well supported across most platforms and isn't difficult or huge to install.

I'll leave you with a quote which is fairly relevant to your comment :P

Re:Multi-platform

[t1m0r4n]

The software can be downloaded on the SimIndiana site, but requires Windows

First thing that came to my mind was "sure glad the government had that anti-trust thing going against MicroSoft before Indiana required everyone in the state to pay taxes for a system that requires Windows". First thoughts generally aren't all that well thought out, but I think it touches on the point in a nice brief way.

And, from scrolling down, I noticed people touching on google. Well, since I'm in a bad mood, I'll pick on them too. Why the heck doesn't their blogger site work worth a darn in FireFox? O.k. that's enough stupid ranting for today.

I'll pass, thanks.

[KevinKnSC]

Davis said that once the account is set up, the software will allow for e-mail, remote printing, spreadsheets, calendars and other computer tools at any computer. Users' documents are then stored on a remote, secure server and can be accessed via the Internet.

Sounds good to me. I can't think of any reason not to trust government contractors with my personal information.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[caseydk]

What are the TOS?

I wonder what's going to happen the first time they start to lose their users' data? Do you sue the government knowing that the settlement will just be funded by charging the comsumer (ie the public) more?

I'm sure we'll be able to trust Indiana as an honest player. People gripe about Google scanning your email, but other seem to think that the government should store their files for them?

(former Indiana resident for 4 years during college)

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[garcia]

I can't either.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello! Who do you think pays for lawsuits against corporations? Their customers are their source of revenue. Every cent a corporation spends comes from the pockets of it's customers.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[FauxPasIII]

> People gripe about Google scanning your email, but other seem to think that the government should store their files for them?

I can't vote to oust the CEO of Google.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[radulovich]

Many people who use SimDesk share your concern about the privacy of their information. In fact, that is often a key reason why they use SimDesk (and one of the reasons I chose to work at SimDesk).

SimDesk takes a lot of pride in developing secure products. One example of that is shown in how we do our file encryption.

By default, all of your files that sit on our World Wide Server are encrypted with 128-bit AES encryption. This encryption is quite a bit stronger than the old DES and Triple-DES used by many other products. Please see question 15 on this FAQ from NIST for more details about the strength of AES - http://csrc.nist.gov/CryptoToolkit/aes/aesfact.htm l
.
For the record, our customers have the option of replacing it with something stronger, or even their own algorithm if they prefer. AES is our default because it is a proven algorithm which has undergone quite a bit of testing by people much smarter than I. This is why AES has been certified by NIST to replace DES - http://cio.doe.gov/ITReform/ArchitectureStandards/ stds_activity/FIPS197.htm.

Further, the files are actually encrypted on your computer before they are even sent over the internet. This has a nice benefit - your files are stored on the World Wide Server in that same encrypted form. This protects your privacy by making your sensitive information that much more resistant to hackers.

I invite you to read the white paper I wrote about our security at http://www.simdesk.com/thought_leadership/white_pa pers/pdf/security.pdf . We are always striving to make our products more secure, and we would appreciate any comments or suggestions that you might have.

===============
Mark Radulovich, CISSP, NSA/IAM
Director of Strategic Analysis
SimDesk Technologies, Inc.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[RyanK]

Yes, that's true, but you can CHOOSE to stop being a customer of a company that you don't approve of their business practices.

Try that with your taxes and let us know how that goes for ya.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

By default, all of your files that sit on our World Wide Server are encrypted with 128-bit AES encryption.

How do you handle key management? Are connections to your servers encrypted? Is the encryption carried out on your servers or the remote client I'm at? If the former, do you monitor the keys?

Did your threat model include yourselves?

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[jeffmeden]

Do you sue the government knowing that the settlement will just be funded by charging the comsumer (ie the public) more?

That's precisely why you can't "sue the government". An apparently little known facet of law known as sovereign immunity guarantees that the funds held by the state are in "Public Trust" and cannot be siezed by any legal action regardless of merit. See: getting in a car accident involving any state owned vehicle (even off duty police, civil engineering trucks, etc.).

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Idarubicin]

I can't vote to oust the CEO of Google.

True, but you can also choose not to pass your email through Google. If you live in Indiana, you're compelled to cooperate with the state government.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[caseydk]

Good call.

Would you pay *any* taxes if the threat of fine and/or imprisonment wasn't looming over you?

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Corgha]

By default, all of your files that sit on our World Wide Server are encrypted with 128-bit AES encryption.

Oh, great, "encryption" hand-waving.

I invite you to read the white paper I wrote about our security

OK, I did, and must note at first that the discussion of security therein is really poorly developed. I also noticed this snippet:

All files stored on the World Wide Server are compressed and encrypted. Each file is encrypted according to the session key at the time the file is stored. This key is then stored in the database, waiting to be retrieved upon an authorized request by the client software. The key and the file are then sent to the client, and the client decrypts the file.

I think that pretty much speaks for itself, but to anyone who doesn't get it: they are storing and transferring the key right alongside the ciphertext! Why bother with the encryption, then? The only possible reason is to say "hey, we use encryption!" This encryption is worthless. It's like buying an expensive deadbolt and leaving the key in the door.

You say "this attention to detail prevents administrators from being able to snoop on a user's data", but what prevents an administrator or government agent from just retrieving the key from the database?

Any security minded people out there, I encourage you to read the security sections of the PDF linked in the parent (unless you're already burned out). It's hilarious. "Ooooh, we use password hashes."

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[gd23ka]

http://.../thought_leadership/white_pa pers/pdf/security.pdf

Thank God for "Thought Leadership". My, how would we be lost without strong "Thought Leadership". Why we would have to think things through for ourselves.

Sorry Mark, but all what you're feeding us is just ahem "Thought Leadership" (I actually like the way this pc term sounds, has a nice ring to it:-) ). You have nothing substantial to back up your claims but a bunch of "thought leading" PDFs.

Anyways, I'm not going to waste a terrible lot of time on this one but anyways...

A couple of things to think about

1. AES > 3DES security-wise. Who says so?? 3DES has been around for DECADES and nobody could put a dent in it. AES has been with us 4 years at best.

2. How are you going to prove to us that your client does not intentionally leak key bits? How are you going to prove the quality of the encryption keys your client and server generates (RNG!!!)??

I'd rather provoke thoughts than "lead them".

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude,

Give the guy a break. He just wrote the paper - I doubt he did the website. ( Security guys aren't know for doing fancy graphics like on the website :)

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[FauxPasIII]

> If you live in Indiana, you're compelled to cooperate with the state government.

Only for the amount of time it takes me to either relocate or successfully vote the offending reps out of office.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

You must not be able to read. Either that, or your comprehension is too small to be able to folow html links! Fromthe link he cited:

"Thus, there are on the order of 1021 times more AES 128-bit keys than DES 56-bit keys."

and

"Assuming that one could build a machine that could recover a DES key in a second (i.e., try 255 keys per second), then it would take that machine approximately 149 thousand-billion (149 trillion) years to crack a 128-bit AES key. To put that into perspective, the universe is believed to be less than 20 billion years old."

AES is WAY stronger than DES (or do you not believe anything you read?)

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[guyblade]

My personal favorite from ther terms of service

7. Discretion Over Content, Use, Storage, and Operation of The Service
We may edit, move, or delete any files, email, content, information or Software that is on, part of, or stored on the Service (including content or communications that You have provided) for any reason, and may preserve and disclose content stored with the Service or user information if required to do so by law or in the good faith belief that doing so is necessary to: (a) comply with legal process; (b) enforce these terms, (c) respond to claims that any content violates the rights of third parties; (d) protect the rights, property, or personal safety of SimDesk Technologies, Inc., its users, or the public, or (e) administer the Service.

We may set limits regarding use of the Service, including limits on the length of storage of email, size of files stored and other user content, the number of messages going to or from a user account, the size of messages, and the total amount of storage available to a user. We are not liable for the deletion or loss of messages, other communications, or other content maintained or transmitted by the Service.

We reserve the right to change or terminate the Service or any part of it without notice or liability. We may terminate or change your password, account, or use of all or any part of the Service and may remove any content within the Service without notice and for any reason, including lack of use or violation of these terms.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly you know very little about encryption yourself. I read the whitepaper and have contacted the members at SimDesk for a follow-up on the information presented in the whitepaper. I'm sure your NSA, CISCO certifications, IEEE, etc. and high-level security clearances that are required for my IT job (yes, I do work for the government) are available on your resume to review.

First, learn about what you clearly do not understand, second, get certified in said items, and third, then come back and we'll have a real coversation about encryption. Once you look up what it truly entails.

By the way, they have been up and running for quite some time, no one has been able to hack the system, and all my files, which are confidential, have not been leaked, lost or hacked.

Looks like the informaiton "leaked" at the whitehouse would have been better off if SimDesk had been installed and utilized.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[rgsmith]

Terms of Service:

SIMIndiana IS A SIMDESK ENHANCED TECHNOLOGY AND SERVICE

SIMIndiana(TM) LICENSE AGREEMENT & TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE

BY CLICKING THE "I ACCEPT" BUTTON AND/OR ACCESSING ANY PART OF THE SIMDESK TECHNOLOGIES, INC. SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS OR ANY OTHER SERVICE (COLLECTIVELY THE "SERVICE") YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU:

*

ARE EITHER OVER THE AGE OF 18 OR HAVE OBTAINED YOUR PARENT'S CONSENT TO REGISTER FOR THE SERVICE,
*

AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT AND TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE (THIS "AGREEMENT").

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS, CLICK THE "CANCEL" BUTTON; THE REGISTRATION PROCESS WILL NOT CONTINUE AND YOU WILL HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO USE THE SERVICE.

1. The Service
SimDesk Technologies, Inc. (or "We," "Us," "Our," "STI") offers user ("Licensee," "Your," "You") a certain online and/or downloadable (as applicable) applications including software such as word processing, data management, spreadsheet, personal scheduling, data communications, e-mail and other services under the terms set forth below. The Service includes the provision of the Software (as defined below) and Your storage of data, files, email or other information on STI's servers. Such Service and storage are subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

2. Use of Proprietary Software
STI hereby grants the Licensee a non-exclusive, non-transferable, personal, non-sublicensable license ("License") to use the object code version of the proprietary STI and third-party software, as applicable, provided through this website (the "Software") for internal personal or internal business use, in accordance with the terms of this Agreement. You may not sublicense or otherwise distribute or share the Software or any part of the Software under any circumstances.

3. Title and Proprietary Information
Except for the limited license granted above, all rights, title and interest in and to the Software and all related documentation and materials, including all intellectual property rights, are retained by STI and its third party suppliers. The Licensee acknowledges that the Software was developed by STI and its third party suppliers at great expense and contains valuable trade secrets. The Licensee agrees to preserve the confidential nature of STI's trade secrets and the proprietary information contained in the Software by retaining and using the Software in trust and confidence and not disclosing it to third parties.

4. Restrictions
You agree not to permit the use of the Software by, or disclosure of such information to, any unauthorized persons. You agree not to (i) disassemble, reverse compile or reverse engineer the Software or take any action in order to derive a source code equivalent of the Software; (ii) copy or reproduce any parts of the Software; (iii) distribute, sell, rent, lease, use in a service bureau environment or as an application service provider, sublicense or otherwise transfer the Software; (iv) remove or alter any trademark, logo, copyright or other proprietary notices, legends, or labels in the Software; (v) modify the Software without the prior, express written approval of STI; (vi) provide the Software or any part thereof to any third party; or (vii) commercially exploit any part of the Software or Service. Violation of this Section will immediately terminate this Agreement.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[SEWilco]

By the way, they have been up and running for quite some time, no one has been able to hack the system, and all my files, which are confidential, have not been leaked, lost or hacked.

You forgot: "That I know of."

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[SEWilco]

Each file is encrypted according to the session key at the time the file is stored.

Session key?
So the data can only be decrypted when accesses from the same computer which knows the session key, and until the computer forgets the session key? So if the session key is lost and you don't have a backup of it, you no longer have access to your data?

That doesn't make sense. If access is from any computer with the magical software, you can validate yourself from any computer. But then you don't use a session key, you use a personal identifier or personal key.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[SEWilco]

149 trillion years to crack a 128-bit AES key

Only 74.5 trillion years. On average half of the full time.

Maybe a little less with faster computers or a mathematical breakthrough.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[ratamacue]

No, but you do have the ability to choose, by your own free will, whether or not to associate with Google at all. And, other individuals or groups have the ability to compete with Google (provided no government interference).

You don't have the ability to choose, by your own free will, whether or not to associate with government.

That is the simple difference between government and private enterprise: government operates on the principle of force, while private enterprise operates on the principle of voluntary association (otherwise it would be criminal).

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Being forced to choose between conformity with majority opinion and exile from the land you were born on is not free will.

And, unless you side with the majority, good luck voting your lawmakers out of office.

I'll take the free market solution: real, actual choice (again, provided no government interference).

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Halfbaked Plan]

I live in Indiana, and I choose not to pass my email through this new Indiana server thing.

Ummm...

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Corgha]

Hey, don't ask me. The details in the doc are a little sparse, and there's no precise description of the implementation.

However, if you read that snippet again, it seems they are saying they store the session key in some database in a way that's associated with the user's account: "This key is then stored in the database, waiting to be retrieved upon an authorized request by the client software."

So, when you log back in with your password, you're probably given access to your previous session keys. At the very least they say they send you the key and the file when you retrieve a file: "the key and the file are then sent to the client, and the client decrypts the file".

Of course, there's nothing that indicates they've tried to address (as you mentioned) the client storing old keys or just grabbing your password, or the admin doing a little "select KEY from KEYTBL where USER=("SEWilco")". But there's not really a well-developed discussion of threat models in there, anyway. I've had interview candidates with 30 minutes and a whiteboard design and describe better systems than what we get out of this document.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[SEWilco]

Well, the way I'd keep the info private is to never store the data password in the servers.

User authentication requires the user supply something like a password. When the server has that, in addition to confirmation a separate DB access code can be built from it.

This DB access code could only be created using the password, and if that is not in the servers then the servers can't decrypt the data without the user.

The simple implementation would be to store it in the user's browser as a cookie. Of course there is risk of extraction of it from the user's machine. So instead do something like encrypt the newly recreated DB key, and store that decryption key in a user cookie. The data could only be accessed during each user transaction. A different encryption key can be used for the DB key for each session, so stored cookies become obsolete when a session ends.

That's a rather obvious solution given the problem definition, as keeping half a key is an old method of requiring cooperation. Maybe they're doing something similar but phrased in a way which obscures the split storage.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[gd23ka]

First please work through Mrs. Jones Math Primer. It is never too late to learn basic arithmetic skills.



2 ^(128 - 56) >> 1021. Maybe forward the above link to the Thought Leader too.

Second of all the Keyspace of 3DES is 168 bits (three 56bit keys) ->

2 ^ (168 - 128) > 2 ^ 128. In fact, 3DES's keyspace is 2^40 times as large as that of AES128 and we didn't even start talking initial vectors yet.

HOWEVER a cryptoalgorithm's theoretical security is not determined alone by the length of its key size. An algorithm with even a 1024-bit keyspace might have a weaknesses that allows a cryptanalyst to discover key material after a couple hundred to thousand plaintext/ciphertext pairs. Go read Bruce Schneiers book and read (read but don't post to) sci.crypt.

The first step...

[gevmage]

I wonder how long it will take before it's required to have this access to pay taxes, register to vote, etc? At that point, I'd be annoyed.

Craig Steffen, former Indiana resident

Re:The first step...

[dilettante]

I think the population of Indiana would start a civil war before they'd submit to being required to use a computer by the government. I mean, these are people who've rejected daylight savings time.

-Another Former Hoosier

Re:The first step...

[Politburo]

Well, how long did it take before it was required to have electricity or a phone to do those things? Right, it doesn't, and it won't, because government must give access to everyone. Yes, electricity and phone and computers make all these things easier, but they are never required, and without a dramatic shift in the way government in the USA thinks and works, it will not happen in the next 20-30 years, at least.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

These are also the people that believe that Knight was a good coach... I find it hard to believe that basing a willingness to start a civil war on the fact that they rejected an unnecessary time change for their geographic location silly.

Re:The first step...

[blanks]

Annoyed? I think this would be a nice step in making tax payment easier and faster, as well as registering to vote, It could make it easier to do many things too that are state related, car tags, paying / viewing tickets (speeding for ex).

I can see this having alot of features that could make this a really useful tool to residents if it was done well, and if it was used affectivly.

Re:The first step...

[gevmage]

True. As nice as they might be to have, that's going to be a barrier to having digital signatures for quite some time.

Re:The first step...

[cynic10508]

these are people who've rejected daylight savings time.

The real conflict aren't the pesky farmers kicking up a fit. The conflict is certain areas of Indiana want to remain on central time (i.e. Lake County and Evansville) while the rest wants to go on eastern time. So the problems they face is drawing the lines to make enough people happen to get the vote passed.

Re:The first step...

[Rei]

I think it's a rather clever idea - get people to use it for the free, add-free email account (and other services), and thus make people reliant on a service that they get for being an Indiana resident. I think it's a scheme to try and stop those who have enough of a brain to use a computer from leaving that homophobic, racist, poorly educated, boring as heck, podunk little state whose people insist on mispronouncing the 'I's in some words as "Eye" and the 'A's as "Ar" (you eat "eyetalian" food, you "warsh" clothes, etc). :)

- Karen Pease, former Indiana resident (Terre Haute)

Re:The first step...

[jphr3ak]

Bobby Knight is only 48 games away from breaking Dean Smith's record for number of wins for an NCAA Division I coach. He is good.

Re:The first step...

[tbone1]

And required to buy Windows machines, no less, said the iMac-owning Hoosier.

Feh. More pork from the Indiana government. Why don't they give us something useful, like software that will translate Julia Carson's comments into English?

(And yes, I am a Hoosier resident and taxpayer who owns an iMac.)

Re:The first step...

[Wicked187]

Your impression of Indiana sure seems like you were from Terre Haute. This is why people get a big misconception of the state. All of you po-dunk hill billies that live on the outskirts of the state. If you were truly worried about the way people pronounced words, you wouldn't live in a crappy place, you would have moved to the Indianapolis area (the Metro Indianapolis Area contains have of the population of the entire state). To anyone who lives outside of the Metro Indianapolis Area and live inside Indiana, I seriously question your capacity to remember how to self-respirate and maintain the ability to make your heart beat.

Re:The first step...

[MacBrave]

I live in Indiana, and I don't want to change because changing all your clocks twice a year is a pain in the butt.

I lived in Michigan from 1990-1998 and failed to understand the big deal about daylight savings time. In the winter it was dark by 5pm and in the summer it didn't get dark until 10pm.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

> these are people who've rejected daylight savings time.

And passed legislation to make pi == 3.

Re:The first step...

[Rei]

Grin, the only redeeming thing about Terre Haute is Rose-Hulman, my only reason for being there. The area *outside* of Terre Haute (assuming that you don't enter, say, Bloomington or Indianapolis) is even scarier. I always used to joke with my friends that when you enter Clay County, they should have speakers set up on the roads to start playing "Dueling banjos", or perhaps institute a "seatbelt and bible law". Maybe even formalize the penalty for a DWB (Driving While Black).

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

DST is a barbaric thing of the past and needs to be gotten rid of. The rest of the country should follow our's, as well as two other states lead (Arizona and Hawaii).

I agree with the issue of several zones of IN still using it, like those far south near Kentucky and those far north near Chicago, which still switch. The state needs to go 100% on this, along with the rest of the country.

Re:The first step...

[cide1]

I agree, changing all the clocks is just a pain. The current system has worked well so far, why change? I have yet to find software that can't cope with it, and it's nice to not have to change the VCR, your watch, the clock in your car, the clock in your other car, the wall clock, the microwave, the oven, the alarm clock, the answering machine, and whatever else has a clock these days.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Are you such a fucking moron that you can't get a job where your hours are flexible if you want to deal with the light in a differing manner?"

So my job as teaching at a Big 10 school makes me a moron? I'm just saying because this past semester I had to teach at 8am and from 5:45 untill 7pm.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

Like it says in the license plates:

Indiana! Corn fed, Inbred, Brain dead.

Re:The first step...

[nelsonal]

It was sweet getting to watch the late shows early after everyone else had switched. Doesn't Gary switch with Chicago?
FWIW, Ben Franklin came up with the idea as a way for farmers to more or less work with the sun (and not be vastly different from city folk's schedules) in the 1700s. It was implemented in the oil crisis to reduce electricity consumption. I think we keep it around now so politicians can laugh at the folks who show up an hour late/or early to church or other Sunday meetings.

Re:The first step...

[sprag]

That's really funny! Unfortunately, I doubt many non residents will understand :)

Re:The first step...

[hb253]

The point is that with DST, it stays lighter late. Theoretically, you would turn on your house lights later and thereby save energy. Overall, if everyone uses their lights less, energy consumption will be reduced. This made sense back in the 40's, but now I'm not so sure. Most people I know run their AC 24x7 whether they need it or not.

Re:The first step...

[nelsonal]

Karen, that name sounds quite familiar you wouldn't have happened to have been one of the first of the classes of the noble gender at Rose? I think Terre Haute gives the state a bad name, although I moved to even closer to BFE (Montana) post college.

Re:The first step...

[Yewbert]

Grin, the only redeeming thing about Terre Haute is Rose-Hulman, my only reason for being there

I always used to joke with my friends that when you enter Clay County, they should have speakers set up on the roads to start playing "Dueling banjos", or perhaps institute a "seatbelt and bible law". Maybe even formalize the penalty for a DWB (Driving While Black).

I GREW UP in Clay County, and I won't really argue with you there. There are a lot of outwardly "nice" people there, but scratch the surface, and you find a lot of blinkered, parochial mentality that's a throwback to the fifties - the EIGHTEEN fifties. I also went to Rose-Hulman, got the hell out of TH in favor of a big co-ed school (Rose was still all-male in '90) for my M.S., and am now back in Indianapolis consulting for a big IT-intensive scientific/manufacturing co. It's not such a bad place - lotta good restaurants.

Re:The first step...

[LinuxHam]

FWIW, Ben Franklin came up with the idea as a way for farmers to more or less work with the sun (and not be vastly different from city folk's schedules) in the 1700s

It goes a LOT deeper than that. I gave the totally wrong description (i.e. farmers) to my friend's kid and ended up having to look up the correct info. It had a lot more to do with train schedules than with farmers. Keep in mind when ole Ben was living in my 'hood, the size of the U.S. wasn't anywhere near what it was 50-100 years later when the trains really brought the issue to a head. There's a TON of history between BF and the oil crisis. See here.

Re:The first step...

[wulfhere]

Amen!! I moved up to Lake County about 5 years ago (one of I think 4 counties that uses Daylight Savings Time), and changing the clocks is a TOTAL pain in the ass.

Not to mention that in the winter, it starts getting dark about the time the kids are let out of school...

Re:The first step...

[Rei]

I got there fairly early :) I arrived for fall of '98, and graduated in (Feb? March?) of '01 (I brought in a lot of credits). My partner Elaine was the first woman to get a scholarship to Rose. She's a native of TH, though; I was just an immigrant ;)

Re:The first step...

[LinuxHam]

the Metro Indianapolis Area contains have of the population

When you people make egregious errors like this, is that you can't spell or is it that you really have NO IDEA that you're using the entirely wrong word for the context? I mean, if you're going to call someone an idiot, well, "po-dunk hill billy", don't make yourself look just as idiotic. Go ahead, make me a foe. You'll permanently metamod yourself to -6. Of course, I'm still looking for the downside.

BTW, the word is "half", not "have".

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you'd be off time no matter when you started is what you are saying???

I work as a researcher for a big 10 school as well (actually run a desearch department), and I DON'T GIVE A FUCK YA'LL!!!

Obviously if you have to teach at 8AM and on the same exact day ya have to teach again until 7PM, you have the short end of the stick and are probably not even tenured or in with the department chair enough not to get shorted with the shitty jobs. One or the other doesn't make you a moron...both in the same context makes you a bigger moron.

Maybe we work down the hall from each other :) I work with a bunch of idiots...I'd be happy if one of them were at least a /. reader :-)

Re:The first step...

[SCHecklerX]

Fine, so long as the government would buy my copy of windoze and a computer to put it on.

Re:The first step...

[gewalker]

For the non-Hoosiers out there. Julia Carson is a member of congress who is sorry to say, less than gifted. Not the brightest bulb, she is also poorly educated and makes many errors in vocabularity and grammar in her public speech.

Re:The first step...

[KlomDark]

What's wrong with wanting to live somewhere that is only people like yourself (white) and not filled with people who like to play in shit (fags)?

Poorly educated? I learned how to code in 1974, at the age of 7, in Fort Wayne.

Boring? Shit, I moved to Nebraska when I was 14. Talk about boring.

Pronounciation? Try the deep south where instead of sounding like you have mush in your mouth, you are just completely unintelligible. (You like to see homos naked? - Joe Dirt)

Re:The first step...

[Rei]

Thank you for demonstrating why I was so glad to get out of Indiana.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that in the winter, it starts getting dark about the time the kids are let out of school...

Dumbass.

DST is applied in the summer. Early dark in winter is NORMAL.

The modern benefit of DST, which everyone posting here seems to not realize, is that you get more daylight in the summer. Why have sunshine in the morning when you're sleeping? Or do you miss the "early nights" all summer long.

Re:The first step...

[nelsonal]

I left in after the spring of 98. I realized that with my grades I'd be designing capacitor banks for the local power company so I transfered out and got into a finance program, yeah I wussed out but the little hazy bits of calc I recall come in pretty handy in this field. It's pretty fun. I'm always surprised at how few Rose alums there are here.
I think I knew Elaine, as all the guys would probably remember all the girls in the school. I'm surprised the guys didn't have trading cards with the female classes there. It must have been a pretty surreal experience ther as a lady. Did it get better as they brought more classes in?

Re:The first step...

[nelsonal]

Cool thanks. I know the trains were big in the formation of time zones (AFAIK, before that local noon was when the sun was highest in the sky), but didn't realize they were involved with daylight savings.

Re:The first step...

[OwP_Fabricated]

How did this get modded as informative instead of funny? And could someone explain why people shit on my state, despite going to college here because the colleges in their states suck or don't offer what they want? If you don't like Indiana, don't fucking come here. The fewer idiot fratboy engineering students passed out on the street, the better.

Re:The first step...

[cynic10508]

Doesn't Gary switch with Chicago?

Yes. And not just Gary. All of Lake county, Porter county, and I think most if not all of Jasper and St. Joseph counties.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

These people ?

It's too bad this isn't usenet or a mailing list because this would be *plonk*.

Dude, I'm willing to bet I've been the Internet much, much longer than you have, have programmed (professionally - as in being paid to program in given language) in at least three times the programming languages you have, learned to read five years before you did, and do use a government computer (and not in a trick question way - like I work for the government - I don't) - a simple example is for renewing license plates. Walk into the grocery store, answer a few questions, and it spits out the new tags to paste onto the current plate.

Probably "former" because we sterilized you so other states wouldn't have to put up with your offspring then kicked your sorry-assed butt to the state line and over.

It's not Daylight Savings Time, it's Daylight Saving Time (there's no s). (the next time you get a lobotomy, make sure they use sharp instruments)

Not all of Indiana ignores it. There are several county clusters which do observe it: near Chicago, near Louisville, and near Cincinnati. Indiana isn't the only state which doesn't observe it. Arizona and Hawaii don't observe DST, territories and other land holdings such as Guam don't, either.

There are plenty of people who would like to observe it but the argument is over which time zone we should observe. Half the year we're on "New York" time and the rest, we're on "Chicago" time (that's how we explain it to people who can't count past ten with their shoes still on. And finally, it wouldn't matter if we passed legislation to observe DST. The way Congress passed the bill(s) in the early 70s, it would take another action in Congress to permit us to do so.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously someone who believes:

UL == FOAF == truth

There was legislation to make that occur, but it didn't pass.

Do not pass Go! do not collect $200.

Re:The first step...

[Tarantolato]

Problem is, the energy savings only apply to a couple of months out of the year. For the rest of the year, gained evening light is offset by lost morning light. Not to mention more early-morning traffic accidents and lost productivity from fatigue and oversleep.

Re:The first step...

[TastyWords]

Kathy Davis can't be completely off plumb - she graduated from MIT.

Re:The first step...

[TastyWords]

No need
to inbreed
as long as your mother
keeps puttting out.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

But..but..but... if you don't have daylight savings, then howw do you know when to change the smoke alarm batteries? Hmmmm?

Re:The first step...

[TastyWords]

And yes, you Anonymous Coward, I was talking about your mother.

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

At that point, Microsoft could be regulated as a public utility. This is a *wonderful* thing.

Re:The first step...

[Rei]

Elaine had long blond hair (she's since got it cut really short. :) ), and glasses. She was in the Anime club and the Chess club, and was a math major.

The experience wasn't too bad, although my main complaints weren't about the guys - I just didn't like how conservative the place was in general. :P Elaine once mentioned that the reason it took so long before they started letting women in was that they had to wait for someone on the board to die. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I'd believe it...

Re:The first step...

[Anonymous Coward]

According to their site:

Support Multiple Platforms
SimDesk was designed from the start to support multiple platforms. This enables users to access their files and data from Windows, Mac, Linux, and other desktop operating systems, as well as from devices such as Palm and cell phones.

So it seems tbone1 that there may be hope after all.

Ok Big Brother is offering me some tasty candy

[mrmeval]

And is offering me a ride in his shiny car.

Ride! Ride! Ride!

Oh, is it called SimIndiana because you can pretend to be a Hoosier?

Re:Ok Big Brother is offering me some tasty candy

[Anonymous Coward]

What comes next? Getting screwed by the government?

Re:Ok Big Brother is offering me some tasty candy

[cynic10508]

And is offering me a ride in his shiny car.

I think you mean tractor.

Ride! Ride! Ride!

Plow! Plow! Plow!

Oh, is it called SimIndiana because you can pretend to be a Hoosier?

Remeber that your SimCorn should be as high as a SimElephant's eye by the Fourth of July.

Re:Ok Big Brother is offering me some tasty candy

[tbone1]

Is this RodKU from Coltpower? You owe me a steak dinner at St. Elmo's!

Re:Ok Big Brother is offering me some tasty candy

[cynic10508]

Is this RodKU from Coltpower? You owe me a steak dinner at St. Elmo's!

Sorry, afraid not. No steak here.

Re:Ok Big Brother is offering me some tasty candy

[TastyWords]

I live about two miles North of Peterson's so that's not so bad. Driving downtown sucks because of the construction (there are only two seasons around here: Winter, and Road Construction) What's also nice, however, is Keystone at the Crossing with Keystone Grill and Sullivan's, now that Peter's has closed. 116th/Keystone has a bunch of new, nice places as well.

Best Quote ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

"but requires Windows, and registration on the site, to use it. The program also provides an email address and remote storage on SimIndiana servers."

NO! Not registration! How will this site ever survive if they require registration!?

Anyways.. could this be the worst statement to try and appeal something to the /. crowd? It has Windows, registration, and remote storage all in the same paragraph.

Re:Best Quote ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

try and appeal

"try to appeal".

New from Maxis

[worst_name_ever]

SimIndiana is finally out? Cool, where do I get the demo and how do I send in the tornadoes?

Re:New from Maxis

[cynic10508]

how do I send in the tornadoes?

The tornadoes have been doing a good job of getting themselves going as of late.

On an unrelated note: How would Dan Quayle spell "tornadoes"?

Porny governor Re:New from Maxis

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you are supposed to create an account under the name of our beloved grubbernor and put child porn on it.

Let her figure that out. :-D

You get...

[GuyinVA]

...what you pay for.

Re:You get...

[ssuppe]

Sigh, I'll probably get lambasted for this, but...

[You get]...what you pay for.

Like open source?

C'mon guys, consistency is key...

One word:

[tomknight]

Good

Okay, a few more words....
Yes, you need to use Windows, and yes, we can't really trust the government (the next government, or maybe the one after that) with our personal/sensitive data/pr0n, but isn't it a good thing in principle that this is happening?

Tom.

Re:One word:

[pointym5]

Why should a Mac-using taxpayer be happy about this?

Re:One word:

[tomknight]

Or a linux using tax-payer, indeed?
Because it's a sign that local government is getting clued up about computers.

Having to use a Windows client does indeed suck. Maybe Apple will see the potential damage to its business and push for a diversity?

Tom.

Re:One word:

[molarmass192]

... or they could have simply made Java a requirement in their RFI and this runtime platform BS would be irrelevant.

Re:One word:

[NineNine]

A Mac-using taxpayer should be happy that they didn't squander a ton of money to produce software that only a handful of people will use.

Re:One word:

[tbone1]

Trust me, the Indiana government knows how to squander money ...

Re:One word:

[mirio]

Yes, you need to use Windows, and yes, we can't really trust the government (the next government, or maybe the one after that) with our personal/sensitive data/pr0n, but isn't it a good thing in principle that this is happening?

Hmm....no, it's not a good idea. For libertarians like myself, this is simply not the role of government. There are plenty of free alternatives out there (OpenOffice, anyone). I'm not sure having a free productivity suite & remote hard disk storage is going to benefit anyone except the politicians plundering the state treasury for their little pet projects like this (yes, I RTFA, and I know that the company is fronting the money for this, but there is government cost involved as well, and there will be substantial costs after the two year 'free' trial).

Why can't governments get back to doing what their good at? You know, building roads and infrastructure, not deciding that the taxpayers need to foot the bill for peoples' spreadsheets...

And then there's that whole privacy thing....I won't even go there...

Re:One word:

[Colgate2003]

From the Article:

The $6 million cost -- about $1 per Hoosier -- is being footed by SimDesk Technologies, which also has brought the technology to users in Houston and Chicago. The Houston-based firm has several Indiana investors, Davis said, and is partnering with Hewlett-Packard NonStop servers to provide the service.

While a Mac (or Linux) version would be nice, the taxpayers aren't paying for it either way.

Well, at least for now:

Kyle Lutes, associate professor of computer science at Purdue University, said he hadn't heard of SimDesk but expressed skepticism at the program. It seems like a good deal, he said, but the company may be using the "crack dealer method of marketing -- give it to 'em free until they're addicted."

Re:One word:

[Zigg]

Why should any taxpayer be happy about this? I can't believe anyone thought making this a government service was remotely a good idea.

Re:One word:

[butane_bob2003]

Chiming in: Or linux users for that matter. Apps like this are probably best written in Java, or it should be entirely web based and work in at least IE, Mozilla and Opera.
I saw nothing about Open Source on the SimIndiana site, but this app should definately be open source software. Given taxpayers can benefit from it's use, but they should also have some say in the design aspects (like supported platforms) seeing as how they are intended client. Nothing like ignoring your intended client's needs/desires/whims to turn them off from your software. I guess the folks in charge assume that Everybody in Indiana uses Windows, or they don't matter. It's also probable that all of the publicly accessible computers (at libraries, etc) are running Windows, maybe users of these machines are the intended clients.

Re:One word:

[Anonymous Coward]

So having the schools and the governmental offices that CURRENTLY costs taxpayers several times what they will be paying for SimDesk in order to pay for Microsoft apps, of which they don't offer access to data anytime anywhere, is a good idea? Brilliant.

By the way, there's a bridge I want to sell you.

Tried to create an account...

[herrvinny]

Tried to create an account, but the site's getting slow. Anyway, at the whatis page says:

Every student, every parent, every business, EVERYONE who lives in the State of Indiana can use SimIndiana. The only requirement is that you register for the software with a valid Indiana address.

Can't we forge an address anyway? NY Times thinks I'm from Anchorage, Alaska.

If you create a document in SimWord® (SimIndiana's word processor), you do not have to save it to a disk or to a computer's hard drive. With SimIndiana, you have the option to save your document in your virtual drive on the SimIndiana server.

It's simply a glorified virtual hard disk service, paid for by the government.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[caseydk]

Odds are they're going to try to reconcile the number of accounts at a given address to tax records and/or school records.

Gov:

"We have 3 thousand people who seem to live at 100 Main St, Indianapolis, but only 3 people filed taxes listing that address. Hmmm..."

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simply a glorified virtual hard disk service, paid for by the government.

Another knee-jerk-anti-government type.

The $6 million cost -- about $1 per Hoosier -- is being footed by SimDesk Technologies

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Unnngh!]

The funny thing is, the TOS does not specify that you actually must live in Indiana. How on earth are they going to verify that each address is a valid address? How about multiple computers at a single address (i.e. re-registrations when you forget your login, your kid registers after you have, etc.)?

But after the posting of this article, the service will probably be more SimSlashdot than SimIndiana;)

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Politburo]

Can't we forge an address anyway? NY Times thinks I'm from Anchorage, Alaska

NY Times isn't the government. It is a federal crime to lie on a federal form. I'm sure there are similar state laws, but I don't think this would quite count as an official form. However, it may fall under wire fraud statutes, depending on where you live (NY times forgery may also fall under these statutes).

Re:Tried to create an account...

[illuminata]

How on earth are they going to verify that each address is a valid address? How about multiple computers at a single address (i.e. re-registrations when you forget your login, your kid registers after you have, etc.)?

That's easy. They're already watching you, man!

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Anonymous Coward]

From their help page:

We welcome your questions and comments about SimIndiana®. ...
We are located at:
6510 West Sam Houston Pkwy. N.
Suite 100
Houston, Texas 77041

Re:Tried to create an account...

[grahamdrew]

Actually, I just registered, and I'm in Maryland. Durring the registration process, it asks you for a state. I answered truthfully just to try it out and it still took it. I haven't installed the software yet (still at work), but it seems to work for non-Hoosiers as well. Oh, speed wasn't a problem as of five minutes ago either. Seemed pretty responsive.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Jarnis]

Thankfully those laws do not apply to people living, *gasp*, outside the united states.

Whoever sold this harebrained idea to Indiana state gov must be hell of a salesdroid. This will crash and burn so badly its not even funny.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[GlassUser]

That's two blocks away from me . . .

Wonder if I can get in too?

Re:Tried to create an account...

[shawn99452]

Actually, I live in Illinois, and I went through the registration, and didn't lie, told it I live in Illinois, and it worked just fine. I'm downloading the giant setup program now.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[deacon]

It's simply a glorified virtual hard disk service, paid for by the government.

Allow me to correct a serious flaw in your thinking.

This boondoggle is paid for by money taken from TAX PAYERS.

It is another example of state government growing to consume all current funding, so that later they can justify taking more money by saying that they need it for firemen or school teachers.

This is where MegaCorp$ are less evil: you can at least choose NOT to buy (i.e., pay for) MegaCorp$ products.

Bleh.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Collestonpie13]

Yeah im in england and i now have an account for simIndiana. Im so sorry i was just curious...

Re:Tried to create an account...

[tbone1]

"... and 300,000 at 16th and Georgetown. Oh, maybe we shouldn't have launched this so close to the Indy 500 weekend."

Re:Tried to create an account...

[tbone1]

The funny thing is, the TOS does not specify that you actually must live in Indiana. How on earth are they going to verify that each address is a valid address?

Simple. Answer the following questions:

• Who won the first Indy 500?
• Where did Kurt Vonnegut go to high school?
• In euchre, if spades are trump, what does that make the jack of clubs?
• Who hit the winning shot in the 1954 boys basketball championship game?
• Whom did Gene Keady replace as basketball coach at Purdue?
• What Congressional Medal of Honor recipient used to own the Indianapolis Motor Speedway?
• Are you a heterosexual man who cries when Jim Nabors sings?
• Who wrote A Girl of the Limberlost?
• What coach led the Pacers to three ABA titles?
• What high school's alumni include David Letterman, Jane Pauley, Wayne Gretsky, and Marylin Quayle?
• In 1983, John Mellencamp was involved with a strange contest on MTV. What was the prize?
• What is a Duesenburg?
• What was Yank Rachell's primary instrument?
• Who was Abe Martin?
• What Hoosier author won the Pulitzer prize for literature twice?
• What is Larry Bird's nickname?
• Complete the following: the goblins 'll gitcha if ...
• What is Bob Knight's middle name?
• Name one of the national morning radio shows that originate in Indianapolis.
• Name three current NASCAR drivers from Indiana.
• At what age are Hoosiers required to retire to Florida?
• What jazz guitar great is from Indiana Avenue?
• The section of Interstate 65 interior to 465 is named after whom
• St. Elmo's is famous for what appetizer?
• What three rivers is Ft. Wayne built around?

That's enough to start with ...

Re:Tried to create an account...

[tbone1]

And just yesterday Governor Kernan cancelled a contract (at the cost of $800K or so) that would have oursourced jobs to Indian programmers to help the state's program to help Hoosiers find jobs. No wonder they quit doing Yes, Prime Minister episodes; how do you make a facr of megafarce?

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a false sense of security. You do not have to be a citizen of a country for those laws to apply to you. I will concede that jurisdictional issues make this more complicated.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[bradulovich]

Wow. You're brilliant. I mean, since your information and data is hosted by a company that can set up their servers anywhere, gee, I'm sure they couldn't POSSIBLY have their helpdesk for all clients located somewhere OTHER than the client location. Think outside your empty box. Data anytime, anywhere. I used to work for an oil company and we had our helpdesk and datacenter located in a building on Westheimer in Houston, Texas while our Oil Field Service Managers were on every continent. Helpdesk was 24/7 due to time zone requirements. This is not a new concept.

Re:Tried to create an account...

[GumphMaster]

The funny thing is, the TOS does not specify that you actually must live in Indiana. How on earth are they going to verify that each address is a valid address?

They can eliminate applications from the Rest-of-the-World (you know, that thing outside the U.S. border!) by asking what Hoosier means :)

Re:Tried to create an account...

[Halfbaked Plan]

Closer, yet, to the Formula 1 weekend.

So...

[kingstalemuffins]

you store you files on a remote server owned by the government? How much storage space do you get? What kind of privacy can you expect? Does every resident automatically get an account?

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post could have been a little more helpful if you had added hyperlinks to the first three or four comments. You know, the ones you were repeating. RTFC.

I live in Indiana and this is the first I've...

[Dagny Taggert]

...heard of this. I, too, would love to trust my state government with my important docs. After all, we all know they handle our property taxes soooo well.

Indiana is high-tech

[L. VeGas]

As a matter of fact, I'm one of the legions of programmers that lost their jobs when it was outsourced to Indiana.

I think they said it was Indiana, anyway.

Re:Indiana is high-tech

[cynic10508]

I think they said it was Indiana, anyway.

You heard right. Come to Purdue in West Lafayette. It's like Little Delhi.

Re:Indiana is high-tech

[Sun Nori]

Actually this is hosted by a firm in Huston called SimDesk. They already offer this service to the good people of Chicago and Huston.

If there is a place to criticize is that we are creating a virtual gold mine for hackers.

Re:Indiana is high-tech

[Samari711]

seriously, i'm at Notre Dame and most of the time i feel like i'm the only american in the engineering building this summer

Great Sig (was Re:New from Maxis)

[adavies42]

In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.

IHTA, I just have to say I love your sig! Best laugh all week.
--
Aaron Davies

Re:Great Sig (was Re:New from Maxis)

[adavies42]

Actually though, by the rules of the "joke", shouldn't it be "you get high on today's Tom Sawyer"?

Corrected Story Submission

[BandwidthHog]

Additions in bold:

TaylorJo writes "Lt. Governor of Indiana Kathy Davis today unveiled a new technology program designed to give all Hoosiers who purchase Microsoft Windows free (ahem) access to a full suite of computer software tools. The SimIndiana software permits residents who have already purchased Microsoft Windows to access their personal files and applications from any computer that runs Microsoft Windows at any time. The software can be downloaded on the SimIndiana site, but requires Windows, and registration on the site, to use it. The program also provides an email address and remote storage on SimIndiana servers."

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[Mz6]

Thank you for correcting the story. I wouldn't have been able to tell you were a Windows hater by your email address of billg@fuckmicrosoft.com, but your text interjections about Windows (in bold I might add) to the story totally gave it away. Thanks!

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[OSgod]

Actually -- we could just replace Windows with "the industry standard operating system" now couldn't we....

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[TopShelf]

Man, what a horrible scheme! How dare they set up a system that only serves the overwhelming majority of PC users!

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that, but now its sure to stay that way, thanks for saving us from all the evils that are not Microsoft.

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[Anonymous Coward]

In a nutshell for you GNU hippies: You pay nothing, you get nothing back. How much your cheapskate ass pay to the state when you bought your Linux OS? That's what I thought. So if the project is funded 99% by Windows user and those 15 gay people who bought Macs, that's what you'll get.

In related news, they don't allow scooters on highways, either.

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[Rick.C]

Purchased?

Does this imply that SimIndiana checks for a valid (not bootlegged) copy of Windows? Was BillyG involved in this project somehow?

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[BandwidthHog]

If only we *could* replace Windows with some mythical "industry standard operating system."

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[Daniel Dvorkin]

I prefer "operating system produced by a convicted monopolist," thanks.

Re:Corrected Story Submission

[jtosburn]

Public money has to serve EVERYONE equally; not doing so is discrimination (subject to interpretation by the courts). Hence the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) which makes government and private commercial buildings provide access to everyone, not just the overwhelming majority of people (those that are ambulatory, sighted, and can hear). And that's primary access, not secondary such as through back doors, or using freight elevators.

Shortsightedness like this exposes government to lawsuits that can force changes. But then, government has a spotty record on planning ahead...there is not now, and perhaps there never will be, a realistic plan to elimiante the national debt, much less the follow through to actually do so.

Good idea but..

[Anonymous Coward]

I really wish people would make Microsoft keep its own monopoly instead of helping them by making IE only or Windows only stuff. They could've at least given the protocol so that if somebody with a Mac or something else wanted to could make their own.

Really, I thought government was supposed to be generally non-discriminatory. It's like "Congrats! We have a super-duper new highway system. Oh, only Ford motor vehicles can use it."

Re:Good idea but..

[RomSteady]

Well, government's can't discriminate on the basis of age, sex, religion, etc., etc., etc., but I don't see operating system listed anywhere on the list.

Given the market share that Microsoft has and the limited resources available to most government programmers, I think the only way that you'll win on this one is if you somehow claim that using Linux/Mac/OS/2/*BSD is a "disability."

Of course, if you make that claim, you can imagine how quickly it will be picked up by the media. "Linux Zealot sues State of Indiana. Says that his Linux wheelchair is incompatible with Indiana's Internet access ramp."

Give Indiana a break. When I'm developing software for my city, I have to ensure that I deliver the most bang for the buck. My access logs on our website show less than 1% of our visitors are running anything other than Windows, so why should I spend an equal amount of development effort on platforms that are so poorly represented by my user base?

Re:Good idea but..

[Daniel Dvorkin]

My access logs on our website show less than 1% of our visitors are running anything other than Windows, so why should I spend an equal amount of development effort on platforms that are so poorly represented by my user base?

Does the phrase "circular argument" mean anything to you?

Re:Good idea but..

[RomSteady]

Yes. Does the phrase "misallocation of taxpayer dollars" mean anything to you, though?

Re:Good idea but..

[Daniel Dvorkin]

It does indeed, and I regard the use of public funds to do business with a convicted monopolist as a spectacular example of same.

That wasn't really my point, though. My point was that you shouldn't be surprised if almost all your site visitors are Windows users if you only develop for Windows; and public or private, development efforts for only one, dominant platform are a direct contribution to that platform's dominance. If a private company does this, well, that's their choice. When governments do it, it is a betrayal of the taxpaying public they are supposed to serve.

Re:Good idea but..

[RomSteady]

Or you can look at it this way:

I have an annual development budget of $125,000, which is barely enough to pay for the salaries of 2 developers, training, books and tools.

I have a choice during my fiscal year. I can either have each developer work on the same program but for different platforms (one Windows, one Linux), or I can create two seperate programs for the Windows platform.

My choice is pretty obvious (double the applications available to 99% of my citizens), but I have the law on my side as well. According to state law, if someone is requesting a tool or report that is not currently implemented, they can request it, but we have the ability to give them a quote for how much it will cost. If I have one person who wants a Linux version of one of the Windows applications, I'll give them a quote as to how much it will cost to develop it. If they pay for it, we'll develop it. If they don't, we won't. If 100 people ask for it, we'll give them a quote prorated down as such. If 1,000 people request it, again. Once the requests pass 10% of our populance, however, our costs are considered so low per person that it's considered paid as part of their taxes.

We only have about 60,000 people in our city. If we had over 6,000 people using Linux, we'd develop for Linux. But we don't, so we won't.

And I'm going to show you the major fallacy in your argument. In our town, we have flouride in the water. There was a vote to put it there, and a small minority voted against it. Based off of your argument, I would have to build two seperate but equal culinary water systems: one with flouride, one without. Instead, we build and maintain the one, and we have the people who do not want the flouride incur an extra expense for a filtering system for their own personal water.

If you're going to be a zealot, at least be an equal opportunity zealot. Equal programs, equal water preferences, seperate laws (hey, *I* don't think that homicide is bad, so why shoulid *I* be punished), etc. And with that, I'm stopping this argument because I'm sounding as polarized as most of the people here on Slashdot.

This Is Cool!

[blueZhift]

This is really cool. This is the first attempt that I've seen by any state government to deliver some really useful technology to their citizens. Heck, I'm happy just being able to pay parking tickets online, this SimIndiana has online productivity apps for gosh sakes!

While I'm sure they'll get the usual criticism, I admire and salute their attempt to deliver something truly useful to the good people of Indiana. The only real problem I see with this is reaching the many people who don't have access to the technology needed to use SimIndiana. In the future it may be very useful to provide similar services that can be accessed via cel phone. Afterall, these days everyone and their grandma has a cel phone.

Again, Kudos to Indiana!

Re:This Is Cool!

[SamBeckett]

This is really cool. This is the first attempt that I've seen by any state government to deliver some really useful technology to their citizens. Heck, I'm happy just being able to pay parking tickets online, this SimIndiana has online productivity apps for gosh sakes!

Why, exactly, is it the state's business to provide this? It is just pork-- no one needs this, no one wants this, it is just wasteful. And not only that, it makes zero sense for a friggin state government (or any government for that matter) to offer friggin' productivity applications! Would you feel the same way if they started offering everyone a free weed wacker? Don't have a lawn? Oh, well... Buy one.

Re:This Is Cool!

[FatherOfONe]

Ok, I live in Indiana and have been in technology for over 15 years now, and here is what I see.

Indiana was number one in lost jobs in the last few years (percentage wise)

Indiana has some of the best schools but almost no startups.

If not for Lilly, Indianapolis would be in far worse financial shape than it is now.

Our local housing taxes just went up considerably and yet we were still in a huge deficit.

Joe Kernan, and his predisessor Frank Obanion were and are the worst govenors Indiana has had in over 30 years. There current motto on the radio is
"Indiana is the state with the most potental"
Ummm yeah... if by that you mean you have raised taxes and are still in a deficate, and because of your incompetence Indiana could easily be a lot better; then I agree..

Now this....
Indiana has no money, yet this Lt Gov, like a lot of Democrats wants to spend money on stuff that adds little to no value to the State. Did I mention that we have NO MONEY!!! Why is she waisting it on this. Specifically she is taking my tax dollars and putting it on Microsoft technology.

Lastly, their own freaking program that is trying to put jobs in the state was found to have outsourced their IT work to India... not Indiana but the country of India....

Ok, one more point.
Indiana had a fairly large surplus of money before O'banon took office. Granted the previous govenor tried to tax and spend like all democrats, but he was stopped.

Hopefully, you will get one thing out of this rant... Indiana has no freaking money at all!!!!! Yet this lady chose to spend money she didn't have on a useless technolgy program that was probably developed and suppored by foreign workers.

I pray Mitch Daniels crushes old incompentent Joe in the election, but it probably won't happen. Not that Mitch is a wonder-boy, but he at least understands how to manage a checkbook.

Re:This Is Cool!

[starm_]

I think it has the potential to reduce the costs to the government. The government will save money because of wage that they wont have to pay to offer services. Things like renewing driver's licence and parking tickets wont need employee time with each individuals. Any economist will tell you that making people more productive is the way to a healthy economy. So if the online services make the population more productive the government might save in the long run. People often forget to backup stuff and wont pay for a cheap email backup service, but they lose in the long run because of all the time that is lost dealing with crashed computers and lost data.

Re:This Is Cool!

[Matty_]

I've never quite figured out how Democrats take the blame for spending when the Republicans are just as bad. The difference is where they choose to spend the money.

If you want to blame someone for the property tax issue, blame the guy who sued the state. If he hadn't done that, we wouldn't have had this whole re-assessment.

Indiana is in the shape it is now because of the people who live here and our non-progressive attitudes. Our politicians, in my opinion, are just a reflection of that.

There's a good reason we're like the Alabama of the midwest.

Re:This Is Cool!

[starm_]

And if you read the article it says the cost to the government is about 1$ per person. You probably save the government that money just by paying one parking ticket online instead of in person.

Re:This Is Cool!

[Colgate2003]

This isn't costing the government anything, at least for now.

From the Article:

The $6 million cost -- about $1 per Hoosier -- is being footed by SimDesk Technologies, which also has brought the technology to users in Houston and Chicago. The Houston-based firm has several Indiana investors, Davis said, and is partnering with Hewlett-Packard NonStop servers to provide the service.

Re:This Is Cool!

[tbone1]

I've never quite figured out how Democrats take the blame for spending when the Republicans are just as bad. The difference is where they choose to spend the money.

You just answered your own question. Spending money to make it easier for individuals to start a business, while still spending, is better than spending money on useless or stupid things like this.

Oh, and if, by 'progressive', you mean paying people to not work or raising taxes to Bostonian levels, then I'll stick with the pioneer-style libertarianism we're known for, thank you. I'm no fan of religions, but the religion of government control might be the worst one after Raiders fans. Bring back Mayor Steve, I say.

Re:This Is Cool!

[FatherOfONe]

Republicans are just as bad at spending as Democrats? Give an example of a time where a democrat wanted to spend less than a republican. I honestly can't think of any. Most republicans, when given less money than expected start to cut things, ALL democrats start talking about tax increases.

Indiana being non-progressive.... What do you mean? Give an example. The word progressive is thrown around a lot, and I am curious of your definition.

Personally, I believe that most people in Indiana have a hard working, great attitude. Most of the people that have lived hear their whole life are honest and care a great deal about their family and friends. Most of their values are formed by their religious beliefs and as such their communities were built with those attitudes. Now in the last few years the makeup of Indiana has changed, due mostly in part by a large influx of certain ethnic groups. Because of this change, and the average life-long hoosier's caring of their neighbor, taxes and spending on social programs have gone way up. This coupled with the fact that the new ethnic groups tend to vote for people that will promis to give them stuff for free, adds to Indiana's problems.

So what does Progressive mean to me.... Increase taxes to "help" people. Increase spending to fund new government programs. These programs of course will be run poorly, and hook future generations on then as well. Reward people for not working, and rase taxes even more so that any future business will not want to look at Indiana for it's home.

What could "Progressive" mean.
1. Lower everyones taxes.
2. Create great incentives for current companies to stay in Indiana. Currently, the only way a business can get a tax break is to get an offer to move the company to another state, then Indiana will do something. Could you imagine if Lilly left?
3. Look at the core business of Indiana (Medical, Agrocultural, Manufacturing), and focus on supporting businesses for those cores.
4. Work on creating startup companies to help those core businesses, and be a leader in technology for those businesses as well.
5. Promote hard work, while promoting family and religous values as well. We in Indiana don't ever want to have any type of Enron here, but we do have our Conceco's, and that should not ever happen again.

Re:This Is Cool!

[salesgeek]

Indiana has some of the best schools but almost no startups.


here's the deal: There's no money for startups. there's lot's of lip service to funding new businesses but at the end of the day, there's no money because:

* Indiana bankers don't understand anything that can't be measured in square foot, salvage value or acres.
* Right now, all the money is getting sunk into biotech ventures ... which have a 16 year startup cycle.
* There's little support for business outside indianapolis
* There's virtually no way for small business to be heard by the legislature ... as the large corporations and unions literally have a tunnel to the legislature from the ISTA building across the street.
* There is no good local beer.

Re:This Is Cool!

[jacobcaz]

Hopefully, you will get one thing out of this rant... Indiana has no freaking money at all!!!!! Yet this lady chose to spend money she didn't have on a useless technolgy program that was probably developed and suppored by foreign workers.

Preach on! I'm also highly put out that Bart Peterson want to add approximately 265,000 square feet to the convention center. Of course there has been no mention of where that money will come from! This is the same mayor of the same city where the police department almost walked off the job when contract negiotiations broke down...over about 2% -- Petersen's mantra through that whole debacle was, "but Indianapolis has no money, not even a single dollar!."

Oh yeah - the city somehow found $24,000,000 in cash and tax breaks to fund a new five star hotel downtown!

For a state that always turns it's electorial votes in for the republican canidate we're surprisingly liberal in Indianapolis...

(sarcasm) Go Kernan & Petersen (sarcasm off!)

Re:This Is Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

FatherOfONe: could you at least proofread a bit before you post? Your spelling is allowing others to prove some of the things they're saying about Hoosiers.

Texas ?

[Quixote]

I am reading the TOS right now. This caught my attention:

6. User Conduct You are responsible for any content that You store, post or transmit on or through the Service. You will not use the Service to store, distribute, link to, or solicit content that:

• . . . .
• Specifically advertises firearms or ammunition, t obacco[sic], alcohol, pornography, or any other product or service that is illegal in Texas, or the domicile of either the distributor or recipient;

WTF? Is this SimIndiana or SimTexas ?

Re:Texas ?

[ViolentGreen]

My guess is that the service provider is in Texas. We all know not to mess with Texas.

Re:Texas ?

[Alan Cox]

Presumably its outsourced to texas then. Nothing says Indiana can't outsource its government to Texas does it ? I mean we seem to have outsourced ours to Washington

Re:Texas ?

[illuminata]

How can we stop Indiana's jobs being sent to third world countries like Texas?

They took their jobs!

Re:Texas ?

[Kid Brother of St. A]

A similar thing to SimIndiana is currently in use by the city of Houston. They have quotes from city officials on the SimDesk web site. Probably explains the Texas thing; they just forgot to edit that out of the TOS more than likely.

Re:Texas ?

[linuxtelephony]

There is/was a plan for SimHouston. This looks like they copied the Houston plan and used it in Indiana. The SimHouston program turned into a big local scandal, similar to the Oracle scandal in California, with allegations of impropriety in the bidding and award process.

Re:Texas ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The provider is SimDesk, providers of www.simchicago.com and www.simmagicjohnson.com. SimDesk is based in Houston and most of their testimonial quotes come from City of Houston employees.

I guess it would take longer to download OpenOffice than to set up a simdesk client, right?

Is there any real value to this software? The TOS say that they can delete your email if you don't log in for 90 days. Thanks for taking the hassle out of data storage, Magic/Houston/Indiana!

-ac

Re:Texas ?

[grahamdrew]

Firearms and ammunition illegal in Texas, tha's a good one....

Re:Texas ?

[d474]

Oh great! Now India is outsourcing to Texas?

How much will it cost me to move from Calcutta to Houston?

Re:Texas ?

[lefthand50]

Built by folks from Houston.
http://www.simindiana.com/support/Contac tUS.asp

We welcome your questions and comments about SimIndiana®

We are located at:
6510 West Sam Houston Pkwy. N.
Suite 100
Houston, Texas 77041

- An Indiana native in Texas

Re:Texas ?

[Scutter]

We all know not to mess with Texas.

I messed with Texas once. It went and got all its state buddies (you know, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Canada, etc.) together and came back and beat the hell out of me. Bastard Texas couldn't fight me on its own. I'm just glad Idaho was out of town that day. I've heard it has a set of brass knuckles.

Re:Texas ?

[I8TheWorm]

Are you kidding? Here in Texas, if you don't advertize your knowledge and ownership of firearms, you get sent to Maryland. Also of note, Texas got rid of the open container laws only last year.

Re:Texas ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Texas? I heard Texas is now the third-largest state! (they just cut Alaska in half)

okay, I suppose the Texicans felt that was unfair.

We'll try another one: an original one from me, no less!

The Lakers are facing the prospect of losing some of their major talent (true), particularly because several are eligible for free agency (again, true), including Kobe Bryant (again, true). Cell Block D, hearing of his availability, has offered three cartons of cigarettes, two bars of soap, and an inmate to be named later.

Re:Texas ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably the case of people hardcoding strings into their code instead of specifying named-constants so the values can be changed later.

It's why I've said 95% of the people in the industry shouldn't be in it. They think it's fun and they make somewhat functioning code but the innards look like sh%t. And pity the poor person who has to write mods afterwards.

The other thing I've said for a long time: You don't have to be good, just good enough.

(and that's pretty sad)

Heh!

[dannyelfman]

I wonder how long it will take before some enterprising 12 year old figures out how to own this system.

Was it Regan who said, ``Government does what doesn't need to be done, poorly''?

Re:Heh!

[Gramie2]

Do you mean Regan, the little girl in The Exorcist? Or do you mean Ronald Reagan, late POTUS?

SimIndiana?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like EA has milked The Sims franchise one too many times.

Might Shut Down

[thpdg]

The last bits of the article report that the system is just a 2 year trial, with possible extension. What happens at that time? Your materials will magically disappear? Thousands of warnings get sent out that you miss, and next thing you know, you life's work, written in SimWord, which can only be opened by SimWord, is gone forever? Even if you have the file, you have no license to SimWord to open it? This is like trusting any of the other dot-com gimmicks that came and went in the past 10 years. Where is the mp3.com archive today? What about Hotmail suddenly closing accounts? What if it is a SimIndiana account, and you had all your financial reports on there?
This is just too freaking dangerous to be more then just a handy accessory, but how many people will take it seriously?

Re:Might Shut Down

[Kid Brother of St. A]

They said on the Indianapolis tv news this morning that the service was going to be provided free of charge for the first two years, and then if the state government keeps it, it would be paid for by taxpayer dollars. Here's a link to the story in the Indianapolis Star. Nice quote at the end by a Purdue prof:

The $6 million cost -- about $1 per Hoosier -- is being footed by SimDesk Technologies, which also has brought the technology to users in Houston and Chicago. The Houston-based firm has several Indiana investors, Davis said, and is partnering with Hewlett-Packard NonStop servers to provide the service. The program will be offered free for two years, Davis said. After that, the state will decide whether to continue it. Kyle Lutes, associate professor of computer science at Purdue University, said he hadn't heard of SimDesk but expressed skepticism at the program. It seems like a good deal, he said, but the company may be using the "crack dealer method of marketing -- give it to 'em free until they're addicted." Plus, he said, many of its features already are available for free online.

Re:Might Shut Down

[Anonymous Coward]

1. You can open SimWord docs in other applications.

2. My understanding is that if Indiana decides not to continue with SimDesk, and after reading the whitepapers and company info and using this application for the past 6 months I don't see why they would decide not to move forward, then the data stored would obviously be transferred to Indiana servers.

3. Like ANY technology, the end user should be smart enough to recognize there may be some danger in putting all information in one place. I have, however, not experienced any issues in 6 months. Nor have any of my colleagues. But let me give you an example so you can easily understand: You have a cell phone, you drop it into water, accidentally lose it, whatever the situation is, you've lost all of your phone numbers. Did you save a backup? Maybe, maybe not. In SimDesk's case, they have failover and backups done regularly. Your cell phone company does not. Already SimDesk is ahead of the telecom industry for brains on that one. Let's say you DO save your phone numbers on your system at home. (Hotsync, etc.) Can you guarantee that you won't have a hard drive failure, lightning storm corrupt something, or you simply deleting something that shouldn't have been and you lose your data and then drop your phone in the pool by accident. You're screwed. SimDesk seems to have routine backups and fail over systems established. You are far better keeping your data with them than on your phone or home computer. If you lose a file on your home computer you've lost the file. Very likely it is irretrievable. With SimDesk, I have lost files that I have saved onto my hard-drive at home, only to be able to log in to SimDesk and pull up what I had previously been working on out there.

Conjecture and speculation are just that, respectively. If you had cared to actually read the whitepapers on the SimDesk website I'm sure you would have had an actual understanding of this product. As it is, you typed before you thought.

Try the product. The company is simply trying to help communities to bridge a gap that is currently represented. On top of that, they have decided that gouging the public's pockets like MS has been known to do was not what their business strategy would be about. They seem to be doing something new, they actually want to HELP everyone to have access to systems at an affordable price.

And besides, I'm sure the term "blue screen of death" is just a myth and saving files on one's home computers have never been lost. Try it, then decide. It seems to be an upfront company.

Re:Might Shut Down

[Anonymous Coward]

Prof. Lutes had better stay out of Brazil!

Re:Might Shut Down

[thpdg]

I have been to the websites, and have read through various pages. I still stand by what I've said. And my reason is simple. During the dotcom era, I signed up and used service after service that was as well developed as this one. There were voice mail systems, virtual desktops, remote apps, email systems, photo galleries, remote file storage locations.
It's almost ALL GONE. Missing, gone, kaput. Want the proof? Look here.
I think it's a great idea, and I've written papers on such location-free computing. Here it is after the boom is over, and I would be concerned, and some people won't know to be.

Re:Might Shut Down

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Anyone remember Zkey?

I still have the brochure/hype for it. Makes for fun reading.

I can see it now....

[RegalBegal]

Hey there was a glitch in the network thingie and I found these peektures of a hot girl.

wait a minute, that's....JENNY COME DOWN HERE NOW!!!! AND WHEN DID YOU GET THAT TATTOO?!@?

Re:I can see it now....

[Yewbert]

Hey there was a glitch in the network thingie and I found these peektures of a hot girl.

You don't live in Indiana, right? That'd be pronounced "pitchers" by roughly 75% of the indigenous population. ;^p~~

How is this legal?

[robertjw]

I work for a tax software company. Last year the IRS and many state governments were forced to remove their free online tax services because they competed with private tax software providers.

How is it that the state of Indiana can provide a free product that competes directly with everyone from yahoo mail to wordperfect and get away with it. I'm guessing this site won't be up for long - the courts will shut time down in a hurry.

Re:How is this legal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, why should the government provide a free service for paying taxes? We should all have to shell out an extra $50 a year to some software company that requires over phone software activation and can't program worth $#!+, before we a get a convienient services that our tax dollars already paid for.

Re:How is this legal?

[tbone1]

How is it that the state of Indiana can provide a free product that competes directly with everyone from yahoo mail to wordperfect and get away with it.

Because our state government is run by thieves. At least, I hope it's thieves. I'd hate to think that they're that incompetent ...

Re:How is this legal?

[InnovativeCX]

I really hate to come off as rude, but if you look a little more closely, you'll notice a few things. First, the product is provided by SimDesk to Indiana residents free for two years. At the end of this period, if the state decides to keep it, it will cost about $1 per resident, paid for presumably by tax dollars. Essentially, the state is not competing with any private companies, at least at this point; rather, a private corporation is offering free access to a product/service for a rather lengthy trial period.

It seems like a decent deal, really, but the ability to opt out would be nice.

-Scott

Re:How is this legal?

[robertjw]

Ahh... so this isn't actually provided by the state, just with the state (or at least the Lt. Governor's) blessing. That makes more sense.

2 years is a lengthy time period. Hope they have some cash reserves to pay for all that bandwidth they are going to burn.

from someone who has worked for Indiana govt

[Anonymous Coward]

A free word processor and excel clone with virtual disk space is nice, I would have rather seen tools to help understand Indiana's tax/business laws, help me fill out and print necessary legal forms, etc. A nice step in some direction though, not necessarily sure it's the right one.

is there any id verification?

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks like anyone can sign up by claiming an Indiana address. Are they cross-checking against any state-run (or other) databases? Or is it just open to the world?

According to the terms of service at http://www.simindiana.com/account/userlicense.asp, you don't need to be a resident of Indiana. There is no reference to residency beyond the address field. Even there, I can specify another state as my address.

Not that the software looks so exciting, but I would imagine the reseller/service provider wouldn't want to serve more users than, for example, the population of Indiana. Unless, of course, they're paid by the number of registered users.

-ac

Socialism and computers go together...

[Anonymous Coward]

...like felines and microwave ovens.

Broadband required?

[MacBrave]

From the system requirements:
"TCP/IP (Internet Connection required for installation); 56 Kbps or higher modem (128 Kbps ISDN or better recommended)."

Considering most of Indiana is rural and those living in those areas with internet connectiions are still using 56K dial-up, this could be a big stumbling block to geeting SimIndiana off the ground.

My parents and MIL live in a rural area of Indiana and even though they have 56k modems the phone line quality is so poor that 29.2kbps is the best they can get.

Re:Broadband required?

[CoolHnd30]

Actually a lot of us in rural Indiana have DSL now, thank you very much :P

Re:Broadband required?

[MacBrave]

I was finally able to get DSL about 8 months ago, and I live in an Indiana town of about 16k.

I've heard of other rural areas finally getting DSL as well, but the rollout seems to be rather slow. Whereabouts in IN are you?

Re:Broadband required?

[TastyWords]

Dish d/l, copper upload?

What does this buy you?

[whoisjoe]

OK, so it would appear that this is really a desktop application which accesses a centralized file store.

Other than a centralized place for files (which is also available, BTW, from Yahoo!), I fail to see what this buys you over, say OpenOffice.

With OpenOffice, you don't have to worry about whether or not the state is going to continue to pay for the system after two years, plus it runs on far more platforms than SimIndiana.

Re:What does this buy you?

[dave420]

With OpenOffice you just have to worry if your files are usable by anyone you send them to.

OpenOffice doesn't run on "far more" platforms. Windows makes up the vast majority, so adding a tiny bit more to that isn't "far more" than windows, just a "few more". Let's not get overly emotive with our language :)

More TOS goodness

[Quixote]

This caught my eye:

This State of Indiana and STI have a three year contract for STI to provide the Services and Software to city residents; however, the State of Indiana has the right to terminate this contract earlier. Therefore, any data, files or other information You store on an STI server may be deleted if the contract between STI and the State of Indiana is terminated or when it expires, if not sooner. STI cannot guarantee that You will be warned before Your data, files, email, content, or other information is deleted. (emphasis mine)

Let me get this straight: after they've got the citizens of Indiana using this system for 3 years, they'll be able to blackmail the state from ever terminating the contract. Wow....

SimIndiana?

[devphaeton]

SimIndian?

Is this a new Maxis Game?

Does it include this?

[Anti Frozt]

Indiana's Highest Point

Re:Does it include this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Indiana has tried to refuse trash (as in garbage, not the trash who live in trailer courts) from other states. The problem is Constitutional, dealing with Interstate Commerce.

You Can Select ANY STATE!

[herrvinny]

Okay, sorry for double posting, but the site seems to have come back up (or perhaps something flaky happened to my net connection, but at the Signup page, you can select any state! I just signed up as an Indiana resident (forged, of course) and then went back and created a new account, and selected Idaho as my home state, and it still accepted my registration!

My guess is, they're using some template form, and they forgot to take out the state box. Anyone want to double check?

Re:You Can Select ANY STATE!

[caswelmo]

Or they just don't care. Since the software is provided by Indiana it would make sense that they say "Here you go, this is for residents of Indiana". Maybe they're just smart enough to realize that actually requiring Indiana residency is ridiculous. And who cares anyway. Like it's a bad thing for the state that more people see the SimIndiana logo.

Re:You Can Select ANY STATE!

[Halfbaked Plan]

Or maybe they'll get around to verifying Indiana addresses in a few weeks.

Hope you out-of-staters aren't storing anything important in thar...

SimIndiana requirements

[SageMadHatter]

The software can be downloaded on the SimIndiana site, but requires Windows, and registration on the site, to use it. The program also provides an email address and remote storage on SimIndiana servers.

Ah, but the real question is must you be in Indiana in order to use it? :)

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[BeesTea]

GI !!

Or a web browser

[TrentL]

I've seen some of the things people are doing with HTML, CSS and JavaScript these days. We aren't that far from having powerful office tools that are used via a web browser. Heck, we may already be there.

Re:Or a web browser

[GregChant]

We use such a system for our company. All of our time tracking is done by an ASP, and our flagship product is another ASP used it several large corporations.

Re:Or a web browser

[AKAImBatman]

I'm still not sure that I want web apps to completely take over the role of most desktop apps. Messing around with a display-document structure is a complex and processor intensive procedure. Suddenly you need the PC equivalent of a super computer just to run your Word Processor.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I'm against the core idea of document based programming and rendering engines. In many ways, user interfaces are merely an interactive document. Technologies such as XUL and XAWT promise to bring faster development time, network-centric deployment options, and more modular designs. I'm just not sure of who's going to break down the final barriers first.

I myself spent some time on a project called "Appliweb" which attempted to solve this problem via a combination of XML and Java. Since both are portable across nearly all platforms, it had the potential to break down some of the final barriers. The problem, however, was that the Java GUI libraries simply weren't designed to do what I was trying to do with them. GUIs could be created in an editor quite easily, but complex documents always had "quirks" that would have to be directly adjusted in the XML. It would seem that someone would need to write an entire GUI interface based on proper bean patterns and document structure. To date, I haven't noted anyone who's completely succeeded.

Re:Or a web browser

[Anonymous Coward]

www.desktop.com (don't bother it's now defunct) tried it, but they were obviously unsuccesful. I knew someone who worked there so I had an account. It was quite limited and slow at the time. It may be somewhat feasible on today's machines, but you'd still have to trust the company to keep your data.

Re:Or a web browser

[osssmkatz]

You will notice that www.flysuite.com--which is not defunct does a mixture of web browser applets and computer applications. You can do either. They also include online storage, which fully integrates with their applications. Also, OEOne.com's OEOne Anywhere provides calendar, e-mail, file storage, and bookmark hosting, which integrates with Mozilla-based browsers as well as being accessible using a standard web interface. Yahoo! Briefcase provides Internet Explorer integration for their Yahoo! Briefcase to their DSL customers (and possibly via their Yahoo! Plus service and Yahoo! Internet Explorer offering). They also used to offer a client for Yahoo! Briefcase similar to X-drive, but I don't know if it still exists. It only supported 95/98 at the time. A lot of services like calendar are expected to integrate with computer applications, and not be strictly web-based. File Management and FTP also strikes me as being this way. If the file storage uses open standards, it can be accessed by any platform (I know Slashdot knows this.. but what protocols do they use?) Perhaps my own Earlham College can look into it? They have a terrific open source-oriented computer science department. It is located in Richmond, IN.

Offtopic?

[RegalBegal]

I think the thought of having personal files and access to personal files on a central resource could yeild comical problems such as a father finding his daughter nude from her indiana boyfriend's personal files. No class? maybe. Offtopic? nahh.

All your files...

[Necromancyr]

All your files are belong to us.

More outsourcing

[14erCleaner]

You know, at first read I thought this said "India". Like maybe they were worried about recent reports that the outsourcing trend was slacking off.

Maybe the state of Indiana wants to get in on the offshore outsourcing business anyway. It wouldn't be the first time somebody confused North America with India.

Re:More outsourcing

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats right, Columbus did that didn't he. :)

Hoosiers

[Anonymous Coward]

All your ears are belong to us

Multi-platform-Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

Well they could use Flash to do the majority of the work, were even a PDA could access the service.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did I read that correctly? Free access to Hooters? I'm there!

Crack Dealer Method

[Anonymous Coward]

"Kyle Lutes, associate professor of computer science at Purdue University, said he hadn't heard of SimDesk but expressed skepticism at the program. It seems like a good deal, he said, but the company may be using the 'crack dealer method of marketing -- give it to 'em free until they're addicted.'

I did not hear about that method when I was getting my MBA.

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[cynic10508]

Will this help Gary, Indiana?

Only if you download SimBulletProofVest.

Can't possibly be any good

[pdxmac]

I see many comments by people worried about the Windows requirement thing, the registration requirement thing, and the losing files thing. Now worries:

At the bottom of SimIndiana's page is the info that it is powered by SimDesk. Go, there, click on Products, and you'll see this:

Even though our focus is singular, our products and services are diverse and far-reaching. We help you create, store, and share. We help you reach out to others, and our tools let others reach right back to you.

We're looking to the future, but we're always grounded in the present. We've found that this position enables us to confront new challenges while we solve current needs.

Diverse yet far-reaching, highly sophisticated yet decidedly uncomplicated - it's how our products are designed to work for you.

Nothing with that mealy-mouth description could possibly be any good...

Amish?

[CheeseTroll]

Isn't there a decent-sized Amish community in northern IN?

Isn't there an even larger population of AARP members?

And what about those Amish AARP members?

I think you're okay for a while, bud.

The first step...There's no place like home.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I think it's a rather clever idea - get people to use it for the free, add-free email account (and other services), and thus make people reliant on a service that they get for being an Indiana resident."

Not really any different than any other state. It just happens that the service in this case is more advanced than what states usually offer.

"I think it's a scheme to try and stop those who have enough of a brain to use a computer from leaving that homophobic, racist, poorly educated, boring as heck, podunk little state whose people insist on mispronouncing the 'I's in some words as "Eye" and the 'A's as "Ar" (you eat "eyetalian" food, you "warsh" clothes, etc). :)"

Every state in the union has "issues". Indiana's no different, and actually is nice overall. I could think of worse places to live.

" - Karen Pease, former Indiana resident (Terre Haute)"

Well that explains it.

-BR, Present Indiana resident (Indianapolis)

Seen this Before

[techsoldaten]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I have experience with this company and this product and my experience was that they are far from perfect.

They came into my daughter's school about a year ago promising the same thing - free applications, email and file storage. And the software seemed really nice - there is a word processor, a spreadsheet, an email client, etc.

But there were also major issues with how the software worked (or, in some cases, didn't work). People had problems installing the software, performance problems after it was installed (the sim software ran as a memory-resident application from that point forward, which was a huge problem for older machines), crashes, and no one seemed to know how to uninstall the software once it was on the machine. Emails were not getting through, people had trouble retrieving files they thought they had saved (or perhaps the files were not being saved at all).

After a 6 month pilot project we scrapped the program due to complaints from parents. The group participating in the program were some technically savvy parents, most of whom are capable of dealing with routine issues like file management and email. I wonder what will happen when a whoel state comes online and trys to use this stuff.

M

What does this buy you?-Knoppix.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just send everyone a customized Knoppix disk, and be done with it.

Requires a Download!!!

[d474]

The big benefit claim for this program is that you can access it from any computer at any time. HOWEVER, in order to access it, you must download the 17.9MB file first and then install it. How is that going to fly when you are at an internet cafe, or if you are anyone's computer for that matter? Is it legal to download this and install it into a library computer?

Why didn't they just make this a web based interface? Do they even realise how big the requirements for their system are going to get once the World starts using it?

It would have been alot cheaper for them just to press 10 million CD's of Linux distributions and send it to all their residents. That way they get free software. I don't know - it sounds too un-thought out....

Re:Requires a Download!!!

[C. Mattix]

The goal is to have it already downloaded on every library computer. You then just log into the system and have access to your files.

In related news...

[Jonboy X]

In related news, diligent posters on the notable anti-productivity website Slashdot.org recognized the irony of spending company time screwing around on message boards and reading about "productivity enhancers".

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if they could only pass a budget and get property taxes straightned out, we would be set. Ah well, thats about as likely as stopping the six tornadoes that roared past my house a few weeks back..

another hoosier,

-d

Sucks - Page not found on signup

[presearch]

Yeah, real nice stuff.
I sign up for an account, press submit, and get a "page not found".
Try again, it says "that account name isn't available at this time".

The first thing I try, and it breaks. Life's too short to waste time with low quality software.
Maybe Microsoft users just have a high pain threshold and they'll tolerate crapware.
Where have all the good developers gone?

Well I guess us Mac users are out of luck

[crawdad62]

All three of us.

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't Gary Indiana have the highest murder per capita rate in the US for a while? I recall reading something a long time ago that said they were the most violent American city, based on population.

Taxes

[kunudo]

You do pay: Taxes

If this is what taxes should be used for. well, there might be some different opinions on that...

Heres the EULA

[bigkahunafish]

ND USER LICENSE AGREEMENT AND TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE IMPORTANT: THIS SOFTWARE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT AND TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE ("EULA") IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU (EITHER AN INDIVIDUAL OR AN ENTITY) AND SIMDESK TECHNOLOGIES. READ IT CAREFULLY. IT PROVIDES A LICENSE TO USE AND RESTRICTIONS ON USE OF THE SOFTWARE AND CONTAINS WARRANTY AND LIABILITY DISCLAIMERS. BY CLICKING THE "I ACCEPT" BUTTON AND/OR ACCESSING ANY PART OF THE SIMDESK TECHNOLOGIES SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS OR ACCESSING ANY OTHER SERVICE (COLLECTIVELY THE "SERVICE") YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU ARE EITHER OVER THE AGE OF 18 OR HAVE OBTAINED YOUR PARENT'S CONSENT TO REGISTER FOR THE SERVICE, AND THAT YOU AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS EULA. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS, CLICK THE "CANCEL" BUTTON; THE REGISTRATION PROCESS WILL NOT CONTINUE AND YOU WILL HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO USE THE SERVICE. 1. Definitions A. "Simdesk Technologies" means Simdesk Technologies, Inc. and itandicensors, if any. B. "Software" means only the Simdesk Technologies software program(s) and any third party software programs, in each case supplied by Simdesk Technologies online and/or downloadable (as applicable), including applications such as word processing, spreadsheet, personal scheduling, e-mail, and corresponding documentation, associated media, printed materials, and online or electronic documentation, and all updates or upgrades of the above that are provided to you, all under the terms set forth below. C. "Service "means the provision of the Software and your storage of data, files, email or other information on Simdesk Technologies' servers. Such Service and storage are subject to the terms and conditions of this EULA. 2. License Grants A. Simdesk Technologies grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, personal, non-sublicensable license ("License") to use the object code version of the Software for installation and use on a single desktop computer that has a Windows PC operating system (desktop PC versions of Windows 98, 2000, NT, ME and XP (Home and Professional)) or a Linux desktop operating system and/or to access Software using a web browser over the internet. A license for the Software may not be shared, installed or used concurrently on different computers. B. You agree that Simdesk technologies may audit your use of the Software for compliance with these terms at any time. In the event that such audit reveals any use of the Software by you other than in full compliance with the terms of this Agreement, you shall reimburse Simdesk technologies for all reasonable expenses related to such audit in addition to any other liabilities you may incur as a result of such non-compliance. 3. License Restrictions A. You may not and you agree you will not make or distribute copies of the Software, or electronically transfer the Software from one computer to another or over a network. B. You may not and you agree you will not alter, merge, modify, adapt or translate the Software, or create derivative works based upon the Software, or decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, or take any action to derive a source code equivalent of the Software or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form. C. You may not and you agree you will not sell, rent, lease, sublicense or commercially exploit any part of the Software or Service. D. You may not and you agree you will not remove or alter any trademark, trade names, product names, logo, copyright or other proprietary notices, legends, symbols or labels in the Software. E. You may not and you agree you will not export the Software into any country prohibited by the United States Export Administration Act and the regulations thereunder. F. You may not and you agree you will not use the Software to develop any software or other technology having the same primary function as the Software, including but not limited to using the Software in any development or test procedure that seeks to develop like software or other technology, or to determine if such softw

Re:Heres the EULA

[bigkahunafish]

Guys, I sincerely Apologize for forgetting about the formatting on /.

I should be beaten.

:O(

Indiana's inefficiency

[A_GREER]

As a life-long Indiana resident, I have seen the stupidity of this state, this is a state that will close a major road by a football stadium for construction a day before the football season starts, this is a state that takes 4 days to fill 2 pot-holes. and the IT, well, if this is run with the same level of inefficiency as public school intranets and WANs , which it will be, then you would have to be a fool to use it, besides private industry already does this much better, it is called GO-TO-MY-PC.

Re:Indiana's inefficiency

[tbone1]

Yeah, but it still beats DC and Chicago. DC doesn't have infrastructure, and Chicago has construction zones rather than construction.

Of course, efficiency comparisons to Chicago or DC really means "grading on a curve".

Re:Indiana's inefficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I want more software that creates holes into my local computer. GOTOMYPC + Windows = Screen Door. You ever had a harddrive fail either, eh?

Anyone have their IP addresses?

[Skapare]

Anyone have their IP addresses? I might as well add them to my blocked server list now to prevent future spam.

SimHouston

[akpoff]

We have the same thing in the City of Houston (as mentioned in the article about SimDesk). The city took an interesting route for granting access -- you have to have a library card to get in. All the public library have terminals for easy access as well as the SimHouston site.

Going the public library route is pretty smart -- a lot of people who can't afford computers were already going to the library for information so this gives them easy access to a personal workspace and productivity tools. It also has the possible added benefit of increasing library use and hence funding. That said, I don't use it and nobody I personally know use it. No doubt because we all have computers at home and the fact the city hasn't done a great job of promoting it.

Oh yeah, did I mention not wanting to keep all my email, wordprocessing, spreadsheet and contact information on a government server? I like knowing my data is on a computer I control. Before I seriously consider signing-up for any roaming desktop product I want all my data kept in an encrypted data store that I alone have the key for. Requiring a search warrant to access my data is a good procedural requirement but like the lock on my front door I want a physical barrier to keep out the curious and opportunistic.

Re:SimHouston

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Which explains why the SimIndiana terms of service prohibit activities that are "illegal in Texas". It appears that they didn't even bother to change that when they did a cut-and-paste job to make SimIndiana. :)

BTW: Indiana is an interesting state to visit.

Re:SimHouston

[rsheridan6]

SimHouston sucks. Surfing the web feels about like using Netscape circa 1996. Why did the city waste the money on this browser when Mozilla is available for free?

Re:SimHouston

[TastyWords]

There's another message I posted about this. One of the marks of a good programmer is recognizing when information; e.g., a variable or value will be better used if it's pulled out and scoped as a constant. Then it obviously becomes $x='Houston' to $='Indiana'. I'm not certain why people don't go back and rip out the values which can be consolidated into constants or even semi-constants bacause of the flexibility it adds.

It doesn't matter whether you code on the fly or "monk style" like I do write everything on hardcopy by hand, mark it up like an author would, rewrite it to incorporate changes, and so on until it's clean. Then that means I only have to key in and be much, much closer to functional code.

Others find this slow and tedious, but it's how I've done it, whether it's LISP and FORTRAN, which I learned by taking coursework during one of my high school summers at Indiana University - also classes with Douglas Hofstadter (Godel, Escher, Bach) and Paul Erdos when he passed through for a couple of weeks.

The FORTRAN class made us use punch cards for the sake of nostalgia so to cut down on repunching cards, I did as much deskwork as possible so I only had to punch the bare minimum of cards.

I'll bet on SimDesk over MS any day!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice to know there are people out there that still have a mindset that is over a decade too old. I'm sure Linus would agree with your, what can only be described as absurdly insightful, statement that "you get what you pay for".

If we analyze today's capabilities, then for several hundred dollars from Microsoft I get office applications that lock up and crash, a browser that has more holes than Swiss Cheese and charges ever couple of months to upgrade or I can't use my applications properly.

Then by SimDesk's standards I'm getting to access my applications and information from anywhere, at anytime. Along with the idea that instead of my having to have another server at home to store my data in case something is lost, they do it regularly for me. Hmmm...seems like you've thought this one through.

Try it. I have been using it for 6 months and when I travel I can work on anything without having to bring my laptop or cart my files everywhere. Not one byte of data has gone missing or system crashed. Can't say the same about MS.

They have it in Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

They do have a Java version. Indiana requested to test the Windows version out first I think. Read the whitepapers online on www.simdesk.com You'll understand what they have to offer better.

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[Anonymous Coward]

While we are used to expecting miracles from software nothing - I repeat, NOTHING - will help Gary, Indiana...

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[sdcharle]

And don't forget SimGasMask.

You'll Never Get Us on DST

[Anonymous Coward]

it's benefits just aren't there...it allows you to extra lazy 2 days a year...and all the TV studios broadcast all your favorite shows on a one hour delay...I get 3 NBCs, 2 CBSs, and 2ABCs...ok, so 2 of the NBCs are obviously on the same schedule, but all the others have a one hour difference...if you see the end of something that looks good just wait ten minutes and watch again...it's free TiVo...only with commercials, and a 1 hour record limit that only works on 3 channel...I should probably be building that freevo box about now...

Re:Now all they need to do...

[symbolic]

...is convince the terrorists to use it.

A quick review of SimIndiana

[Anonymous Coward]

I signed up and downloaded the software. It's really nothing to spectacular. A few bugs, but it was pretty easy overall. http://www.mjberger.com/archives/000181.html

Windows only, but PR pictures include an Apple!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you go to the page, the picture on the upper left hand corner features a Hoosier being productive... on an Apple!

http://www.simindiana.com/default.asp

Also, I just registered for an account. I just looked up some random address in Indiana and used that.

Another interesting note, on thier contact page, customer service is located in Texas.

Pretty Slick

[InnovativeCX]

Just trying out the software, it seems to be pretty slick -- just about on par with OpenOffice.org, though a little faster. Complicated Word documents don't open well, but for the basic, simple purposes a person using a free office suite would require, it is really a decent application.

What I'd really like to see is Open Source groups working with state governments to accomplish the same purpose for free (speech / beer). Many more possibilities are available.

In any case, I think this is an excellent step forward for the state; though we may not be doing well economically (like most states), it is nice to see advancement in technology. Indiana already offers several other services, such as Access Indiana, something resembling e-government, and a full-text newspaper, magazine, and journal databased called Inspire.

I wish other states would do the same.

Re:Pretty Slick

[TastyWords]

It's worth the state trying, even if others have tried & failed.

One of the other things the state does is cams in some of the state parks so you can tell when the trees are going into fall colors. You can look at your favorite places then decide when to go.

Liars!!! Works with OSX!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a non-Indiana resident, currently using the system with Safari on OSX.

They have a web interface, that they dont advertize, you dont have to download thier windows package.

Use: http://wws.simdesk.com/

They also have an interesting presentation suite run on Flash. I havent used it yet, I just discovered it. See: https://wws.simdesk.com/simpressive/v040/system/in dex.html

Works in latest wine

[hattmoward]

Not too shabby, but I still wonder why they paid to use this software instead of OOo... They are missing out on the other platforms here. BTW, it's written in Visual Basic. Flame on! ;)

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[Anonymous Coward]

More Anti-White liberalism from Al Sharpton, what's new?

Good article though. Sounds like a tough place to be. I think people should take a hint from the white folk. GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE!!!!! What is the point of staying in a place like that?

What's the real reason here?

[superultra]

This is an unusual thing for government to foot the bill for. Obviously this kind of service is only useful for people who have jobs, and more specifically those who have office jobs with continual access to a PC and the web. Why isn't the Hoosier state government, instead, providing net access and low cost PCs to lower income families who don't have jobs? For the $1 per Hoosier, they could have taken that $6mil total and provided at cost broadband to 200K-300K Hoosiers for educational purposes or job-finding. I live in Indiana, and our state job outlook is not cheery. In fact, jobs keep leaving. So what gives?

n.b.

[TastyWords]

(nota bene, note well)

I'm booted on an XP-Pro with built-in SP1 partition and one of the spy software packages has just warned me SimIndiana has overwritten critical Windows files (apparently I don't have the software package configured to warn me before rather than after).

Anyway, I'm in the process of diagnosing what may or may not be problems and how severe they may be.

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[cynic10508]

And don't forget SimGasMask.

Don't know how much that'd help. Judging from the people I know who are from up there, you'll be having SimLungProblems either way.

Encryption and Compression are mutually exclusive

[Anonymous Coward]

Compression of typical document files depends upon lots of whitespace (insignificant bytes) in the files to make the compression ratio worthwhile. Whenever you encrypt a file, all of a sudden each and every byte of data in the file becomes significant, and the practical compressability of the file goes to hell in a handbag. In fact when you try to compress encrypted files using many common compression techniques will result in a compressed file that is actually larger in size than the uncompressed file. Don't believe me? Try it for yourself, encrypt some random file with GPG and then look at its filesize. Then gzip it, Look again at the filesize and laugh.

Anyone who banters on about compressed encrypted files is also exposing how little they know about both.

Reminds me of a scene in "Raising Arizona":

Gale: Alright ya' hayseeds, it's a stick-up. Everybody freeze. Everybody down on the ground!

Old man in the bank: Now, what's it gonna be young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? 'Cause if'n I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And if'n I drop, I'm gonna be in motion.

To use government services I paid for ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The software can be downloaded on the SimIndiana site, but requires Windows,

I'm mad as hell. We, the taxpayers, paid for this system. And they chose to build it in such a way that in order to use this system we paid for, we have to go out and buy, and install, Microsoft software. How big a bribe did Microsoft have to pay to make this happen?

Re:Encryption and Compression are mutually exclusi

[Anonymous Coward]

It's compression and encryption (ie, compression first). The idea of this is precisely the reason you listed, that compression tends to collapse redundancy. Less redundancy makes analysis of an encrypted file more difficult. This is exactly why GPG/PGP by default compresses data before encrypting it.

The first step...Atomic Clocks.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I have Atomic Clocks in my house (even the coffeemaker). Self-setting, and can automatically deal with the time-shift.

BOGUS-- Not any computer any time

[bratwiz]

If it requires Microsoft Windows then it isn't really any computer any time is it? Microsoft SUCKS.

For the paranoids

[nurb432]

From what i understand, your data is encrypted before it hits the servers.. So its really not 'another step'. ( and this is coming from a paranoid :P )

However it's not really 'free', since its paid for by state tax dollars, but we Hoosiers might as well get some of what our taxes are paying for...

More importantly...

[sharkey]

What's the Watson's Girl's real name, and which birthday were her boobs gifted to her on?

Re:More importantly...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Watson's Girl is Jennifer Eichler. If you've noted lately when she's on-camera she's staying above-waist and out of bikini, it's been said she's put on some weight (she wasn't real thin to begin with).

Her stepfather owns Watsons and used to be the male lead in the earlier ads.

It's also been said she is very, very, very easy.

Bright side of DST

[Anonymous Coward]

It may be a pain to change the clocks, but it gives me two excuses per year for why Im late to work.

Maybe this explains it...

[Almost-Retired]

The fact that I just took a trip down I64 in Indiana, once each way, made a very strong impression on me.

1. While the interstate was being repaired here and there, there were places that had they been here in West Virginia, would have been broken out and replaced 2 years ago.

2. With the rest stops being the exception, I saw no evidence that the State of Indiana owns any right of way mowers, the medians and shoulders of the interstate were as overgrown and wild as they would be if a mower hadn't touched them yet this year.

3. Finding something fit to eat was quite an effort, there being maybe 1/3rd the number of Burger Kings et all within driving distance of the interstate that one normally expects. I even stopped at a grocery store intending to do my own, but their choices in snacks weren't fit for a diabetic, and the lunch meat products hanging on the back wall of the display cooler were all up to room tempurature if they were above belt buckle height, indicating very poorly maintained coolers that our board of health here in WV wouldn't tolerate for any longer than enough time to walk to the front of the store and nail a closed sign across it.

Indiana needs to get their taxpayer funded projects operating with a sensible priority, or do like has been proposed for Iowa, build a bridge over it so we can go on by without disturbing the natives. They haven't yet built a bridge over Ohio, so I bypass that traffic hell-hole if at all possible.

Cheers, Gene

Re:Maybe this explains it...

[bullwinkl]

We let our medians grow so people can see the pretty flowers. And we let our highways fall apart so people can see the pretty potholes. And seriously, who peed in your cheerios this morning?

Re:Maybe this explains it...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're from WEST VIRGINIA, though - right?

Thanks for the generalization there chief.

[OwP_Fabricated]

Now, do you have any real information?

Windows Machines and Updates Mandatory

[SEWilco]

So now the state is requiring that people use MS Windows, and they must pay for upgrades.

They pay for upgrades in two ways:

• They have to pay the state to create versions of the magical software which work on every new version of Windows, and with new patch versions.
• To access their own data they have to pay to keep their own machines compatible with a working version of the magical software.
• Do we count users' expense in updating the magical software?

Are you also required to remain a resident of Indiana in order to access your data?

Um...

[((starology))]

A six million dollar, platform-limited software platform that allows users remote access to software, online storage, and email? Just get a shell account dude.

Re:Will this help Gary, Indiana?

[Anonymous Coward]

shut the fuck up you dumb fucktard!