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Microsoft and Lindows Settle Trademark Case
An anonymous reader writes "According to an official press release hosted over at Yahoo, Microsoft and Lindows have settled their trademark case, and have announced: 'Over the next few months Lindows will cease using the term Lindows and transition to Linspire globally as our company name and primary identifier for our operating system product.' Although it's claimed: 'Terms of the settlement are confidential', ZDNet has an article filling in more details, including the fact: 'Microsoft will pay upstart Linux seller Lindows $20 million... [so that Lindows] will give up the Lindows name and assign related Web domains to Microsoft.'" We've previously covered the Microsoft and Lindows conflict in some detail.
That said, I'm glad to see the end of this as an issue... until Sunbean sues Linspire over their trademark
Sigs cause cancer.
I was hoping that Lindows would have went all the way to prove that the Windows trademark is too generic a term to be valid. Instead they take the easy option and go for the cash.
Although I guess you probably would find it difficult to refuse MS cash if you were a company.
Seriously, the linspire people are not the kinds of companies I, personally, would like to see carrying the Linux/OSS banner forward any more than I'd want to see claria be our standardbearer.
Hopefully after being forced to change their name will cause computer companies to consider bundling other "distributions" (if you deign call "lindows" a "distribution") such as mandrake or fedora wich are much more free (as in speech and as in beer), and who have not based their business model on a combination of selling free applications and having a name that sounds like 'windows'.
The ZDNET/C|net buggers barely scratched the surface.. Here's a link to the full text of the so called, Confidential Settlement Agreement and Mutual Release of Claims, dated as of July 16, 2004, by and between Microsoft Corporation and Lindows, Inc as filed with the SEC.
He starts a good fight... then sells out.
You can't re-use code, if you can't find it.
$20MM for a similar name sounds pretty wild. What's to stop Aindows, Bindows, etc from trying the same thing?
Apparently Michael Robertson is just a money-grubbing whore. He stated so vehemently that Lindows wasn't like Windows - until he could talk them into a cash payment. This is appalling for Linux.
Lindows Steals Copyrighted Art and Promotes Porn
I think the new name is a bit unlinspired.
MS sues and Linspire walks away with $20M to use against MS to make their product and Linux better.
Sweet!!!
20 million....
I think it's time to roll out a Gentoo based MS Windows look-a-like named Gindows.
- A s M -
You too can make $20M. I am sure you can find lawyers willing to do the paperwork for you (on an if-come, for about $50%).
Microsoft forced wxWindows to change their name to wxWidgets. They didn't really have a strong case, but as an non-commercial project, the wxWidgets proejct didn't have the finances to contest it, either.
Microsoft offered some assistance in getting a hold of a new site for wxWidgets, as well as offsetting costs, but it was nothing along the lines of $20 Million.
So Microsoft has been going after other people in the "similar" namespace and using carrots and sticks to move them away from the Windows name. Generic or not, they are doing everything they can to ensure "Windows" is associated only with the Microsoft product.
They had MS by the balls.
It seems that redirecting web domain will cause consumer confusion. Joe consumer who doesn't know any better will go to the Lindows site only to find Microsoft and then assume they are the same thing.
1) start a company with some sort-of derivitave of 'Windows'
2) collect 20 million from Microsoft
3) ???
4) profit
Maybe SCO should change their name to something like "4-pane OS" or "glass-os" or something
bash: rtfm: command not found
Know what? Arguments about how MS is trying to enforce an "overly broad Windows trademark" are now moot. The settlement shows that Microsoft is aware that they cannot force names like Lindows to stop just because of a similarity, but they ARE willing to pay out to keep a monopoly. And know what? That's damn fair.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Due to this news I have decided to register the following domains:
c oms .como ws.comn dows.com
U indows.com
Aindows.com
Bindows.com
Cindows.com
Dindows.
Eindows.com
Findows.com
Gindows.com
Hindow
Iindows.com
Jindows.com
Kindows.com
Mind
Nindows.com
Oindows.com
Pindows.com
Qi
Rindows.com
Sindows.com
Tindows.com
Vindows.com
Xindows.com
Yindows.com
Zindows.com
I anxiously await 24 $20M checks.
-m
#
# Modus Ponens
#
What did we really expect? First off, I believe that when someone says it is a matter of principle, that person really means it will be really expensive. Two, Microsoft knows that they lost, so why not through money at the problem. That is how they handle competition and democracy.
I've been getting 500 / 503 since the maintenance was done a day or two ago. Maybe they're running with les bandwidth?
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
I don't blame Robertson. Since they're going public soon, this money will be in the general coffers of the company and used to compete against Microsoft. I think this is a smart move. In the long run, Linux will be better off with the $20M being used to advance Linux than just proving the term Windows was generic.
Zeo
So who want's to start Vindows, a layer on top of VMS that makes it more like Windows. We could even call it Vindows NT.
Seriously, with MS so close to losing their trademark, why not more people set up names similar to windows and cash in challenging them in court.
MS throw about their weight with trademarks way too often (MikeRoweSoft is a recent example), if I was called Bob I'd be scared that they'd sue me next.
Money always los...I mean, huh?
The Andersen Company declined to comment on rumors that they were in negotiations with Microsoft to give up all right to the name of their product, formerly titled "Windows." They further refused to comment on speculation that their products would now be called "Wallholes." When asked how much cash they'd been offered by Redmond, the Andersen spokesman hung up on this reporter.
I have to say, good for Lindows. They've managed to secure some decent funding for their development while getting a lot of attention. Lets face it, most Linux users are 'in the know' in the IT world. The transition from Lindows to Linspire (or whatever) is *not* going to get people lost. So good for them!
-- Bored? Check out my Portfolio
I think I'll go for VVindows,\^/indows and \/\/indows ;-)
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
As of 5 minutes ago, I was getting 503.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
Lordy, if my product was a definite threat to destory Microsoft's Windows trademark, it would sure as hell take more than $20 million of Billy Boy's $50 billion to buy me off....
Read the S-1 people before posting inane comments. I know you might lose a couple slots in the who can post first contest, but at least you won't look like an idiot.
Here are facts which are at SEC.gov
Domain name Lindows will be redirected to Linspire for 4 years.
Lindows gets 20MM (Lindows has only spent 13MM since inception)
Lindows gets 4 year windows media license
Where are all the people that thought Robertson was dumb for selecting lindows.com now???? Linux needs a few more Robertsons.
I know, I know, Lindows is the anti-christ. But they got their competitor to fund their business! Anyone notice that?
The lack of business acumen of Slashdotters continues to astound....
When Lindows started using Linspire in the US. It made no sense other than to prepare for an eventual settlement. I do wish Robertson would have held out for more money. 20 million is NOTHING to Microsoft.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
What this basically means is that there will now be a major open source player. If Lindows is frugal with this money, or spends it on advertising and promotions that benefit both themselves and the open source community that they take their base distribution from, we could finally see the first real threat to Microsoft! And with money given to them by their main competitor?
Didn't Alanis Morisette right a song about this?
One, 20 million dollars is 1/3000th of their cash hoard. A movie ticket to someone making $250,000 a year salary.
Two, there was a real danger of losing their trademark on Windows as being generic.
Infuriate left and right
I'm afraid that I'm going to have to agree with pretty much everyone on this one..
I think its absolutely awesome that the Lindows guys get the money.. if its one thing that most linux software companies don't have lots of, its money..
It has me really excited to see what new developments come from Ex-Lindows.. its yet another stepping stone for linux..
It definitely makes me wonder if MS would get pissed again if another company just as popular started something with the _indows suffix.. i think just for novelty purposes, mine will be, Tcl/Tkindows
- Hi I'm Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Lih-nix..
Same here - if I go to the homepage I get a 503 every time. I'm having to in via my homepage. very slow though...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
What's next paying off the guy that owns billgates.com? I see Steve has got his name but not Bill... that's not fair. Why should Ballmer get his name and not Bill?
I'm more interested in one of the settlement terms where Lindows..er..Linspire will remove certain components and M$ will provide alternatives. This means that MS will have to port some software to Linux. Ouch!
Who else can get a bucketload of free publicity, and then get paid $20 million for it!
So I have a question. Can Linus Torvalds sue Linspire for using the "Lin" part in its name? Wait. Bad idea. Because then Linus would have to pay Linspire $20 million!
I thought the Windows Trademark (or better: its continued existance) was worth far more than a measily 2E7 USD.
|_lindows could have easily gambled much longer and higher.
Rainer
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
"Lindows" was to match "Windows", so i am happy with the decision. And that Microsoft is *helping* them is even nicer. Good things do happen...
Have you read my journal today?
Me too--all day today.
But I would like to say, I think Microsoft not only would have won any court cases, but probably should. "Lindows" is clearly a trademark infringement, and for the so-called "Joe Whatever" so trumpeted here as the "average user", it simply isn't clear that there would be no confusion. Whenever I think people are not that stupid, they always prove me wrong.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Bloomberg has a pretty detailed article about this, for those looking for more detail than the commonly-used Reuter's article contains...
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
I am starting a new company to challenge the Windows Trademark. The company name will be "Vindows". I fully expect that there will be a legal challenge by that big nasty company with all the money. I expect a need to raise about two million to be financially viable before introducing the new company and its products. I promise that I will not store my software in a warehouse somewhere, but will provide direct links to the manufacturer's websites where you will be allowed to obtain software at no cost to you once you become a partner in my company.
I am currently soliciting investment funds from entrepeneurs in the amounts of $50.00 or more each toward this goal. Private share certificates will be issued for each investment of $50.00, and for the first $1000 (oops) I meant 1000 people who have limited funds and can only donate (oops again) invest $25 dollars, I will divide the investment shares accordingly.
If the venture company really takes off, we will all become rather rich. However, the best we can hope for is for that big nasty company to come try to put us out of business by claiming they have rights to our name. The way I see it, with two million dollars to pay attorney fees, we will still have $18 million to share after we change our name and settle out of court. For those who have invested in the initial two million dollars, your return will be a whopping 400 percent, allowing you to recoup your investment plus 300 percent in less than 3 years.
That leaves me as CEO and owner, having made the company what it is, with just enough to limp along and start over with --- well, I was thinking of something like "Rindows".
Please forward your donations to me at my websites, vindows.com and three years from now, rindows.com. Please don't get the names mixed up since others may try to scam you out of money by registering similar websites like "dindows" of "findows" or even "zindows".
Thanks ahead for your donation (oops still again). I meant investment.
CEO and Owner, Vindows
What about Nuindows?
~S
You guys are happy that people can extort money from a company by naming their products something similar?
Whether you like it or not, whether its trademarkable or not, people associate 'Windows' with Microsoft Windows. Naming their product 'Lindows' was an attempt to be leach off of a brand name.
This is so obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by dumb hatred of anything Microsoft. If there was any OSS software that was popular amongst the novice computer-user masses, and MS named a competing product almost the same thing, there would be OSS bedwetter outcry galore.
This dishonest crap of changing one letter in a name, or naming it something very similar, or making the logo similar, has been going on for far too long; long before commerical computer programs. Its BS, no matter what medium its in. Don't applaud it.
I'm waiting for Gindows, Mindows, SuSendows, Red Hindows, etc.
Not a sentence!
The new name will be Like-rosoft OS.
Wow, it's rare to see such a blatant case of sweeping danger under the carpet. As soon as Microsoft's cash cow trademark came in danger you just knew the case would be settled quickly. You have to believe people will see this weakness and pounce on the opportunity... at least that's what's supposed to happen in a capitalistic society. Wonder whose greed will win out?
Instead of playing off the *indows theme, maybe choose a name that plays off it, but is not directly related, like "Doors," or "Steps," or something.
...I dunno... sounds hokey.. but it sends subtle jabs to Windows without infringing directly on copyright..
It seems knock-offish I know, but imagine the advertising possibilities:
"Why look through a Window when you can walk through a Door"
or
"Make sure you take the right Steps to yada yada yada..."
This message was posted using recycled electrons.
Why? What's so wrong with Linspire that you don't want them to join your following? I see this attitude everywhere, but I don't understand it. I hope this is something more than the script-kiddie "If grandma can use it then it sux: OSS should be hard to use" attitude.
And what did Mike Rowe (remember MikeRoweSoft?) get? A handful of books and an XBox. He should have held out...
Actually, MR has been in the trenches quite a bit.
He was one of the first people to try challenging Microsoft for the desktop head-on.
He managed to grab $20M in funding from Microsoft.
He funded the "run Linux on the XBox awards" that partly funded the practical breaking of the XBox DRM, which probably cost Microsoft quite a pretty penny in lost royalties.
MR may not be a nice person. He may not even be someone that you want associated with Linux. You could argue that he hits below the belt when he fights. But one thing you can't say is that he wasn't fighting against Microsoft, because he did, more so than just about anyone out there -- he walked up, challenged Microsoft, and has been steadily beating them, abeit with a thousand little stabs. He's managed to cut himself a nice little niche out of Windows market share while staying about as high-profile at Redmond as could possibly be imagined. He's one of those rare beasts -- a competent exec.
He's hardly sold out -- he now has a slightly changed product name (that personally, I find more appealing), a good chunk of money, plenty of publicity from the case, and based on what he's done so far, I expect that he'll do fine for himself.
May we never see th
Yeah, for some reason it is a little slow. I don't think a scriptkiddie could slow it up, though, even with a mid-size DDOS attack. I mean come on, with the amount of people that never RTFA, it's clear that it only takes a small percentage of Slashdot readers to slashdot a site, yet /. itself handles all of them all the time. These ain't no ordinary servers - Slashdot's into the 'more bandwidth than God' category ;)
Am I the only one who is reminded of Larry Ellison whenever I read about Michael Robertson? (The former is the CEO of Oracle and the latter is the founder and CEO of Lindows / Linspire.)
Both run tech companies. Both have personalities (based on reports and news stories) that could be categorized as "dickhead."
And both appear to be redeemable for the sole reason that they seem to really enjoy pissing in Bill Gates' Cheerios.
- Neil Wehneman
P.S. Since this topic is on trademarks, it should be noted that Cheerios is a registered trademark of General Mills, and my reference to it is in the non-trademark use of the mark. (Reference)
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
...$2.7bn?
Despite the 'funny' mod, I think you were actually serious. (Or possibly trolling.)
It's hilarious to watch all of you open-source promoting, code-was-made-to-be-free pumping, linux-running zealouts cheer on the guy for selling out. I guess $20mil is the price for the principle?
Linspire had filed to take the company public on April 20th, 2004 and hoped to raise $57,000,000. No doubt that the venture capitalists pushed the management to take an additional 35% with this Microsoft deal. It is hard to "fight the good fight" with that kind of money on the table; or make an IPO.
Have you Meta Moderated t
Others have already posted shorter summaries, so I won't bother.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
So, will Microsoft sit on the Lindows name? Or release a product under it?
MS Lindows, anyone?
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Microsoft innovates by copying, so naturally other will do the same because their methods work-and business is war-prepare to win.
Yes, Lindows has some questionable origins in the name-especially with Michael Robertson at the helm, but that's tech life, so get over it already.
Could I out and start a company called Lindows?
Slashdot getting slashdotted? the irony...
I'm only paranoid because everyone is against me...
"selling free applications and having a name that sounds like 'windows'"
Ok, I'll bite. I don't use Lindows/Linspire but this post is incorrect.
1. Lindows sells a subscriptions service where they offer easy to install apps. This may not seem useful to you but it's very useful to a horde of people for whom installing software is too complex. They are selling "making it easy for you" not the free software.
2. Lindows doesn't represent the community and nobody would take seriously an attempt on their part to do so. They do however contribute to it. Recently, for example, they hired a fulltime mozilla developer. I'm also pretty sure they help finance/contribute to the development of some KDE apps. Additionally, they help pay for the bandwidth of the kdelook website.
3. Microsoft's rights to the word window are debatable at best. IMO owning the rights to the use of words in a specific context is a stupid idea that should never have been allowed.
4. I don't blame Lindows for taking the 20mil. It's not cheap fighting litigation all around the world and extra tough when you're trying to build a business at the same time. Especially when your opponent has bottomless pits of money.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
Microsoft will pay upstart Linux seller Lindows $20 million... [so that Lindows] will give up the Lindows name and assign related Web domains to Microsoft.
$20M to not use a name. Yay! There are 24 other letters not used yet in the alphabet, so there's that missing 2nd step:
1. Set up a product called $Alphabet + "indows"
2. Get sued by MS
3. Profit!!
That would be (24)(20M) = $480 million for you Microsoft. Please pay in cash. A check is acceptable with 2 IDs.
So, because Lindows has taken Linux and gone after the lowest common denominator, the "average" user, the Uber Script Kiddies and Uber Wanna Be Geeks diss it as not really Linux, after all "grandma" can use it. This is why Red Hat fell out of favor, after all they did for Linux, it got way to easy to use, just not geeky enough, after all, with a graphical installer no less.
Well, Linux is now "here", and the companies that have the resources to do it will now put Linux in everyone's hands, not just the "illuminati" and such. Uber Losers, you will now have to go find another "secret" to imagine only you know the truth about. How about BeOS?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
If it were that, you'd see the same comments about Xandros and Lycoris. Lindows just comes across as sleazy and disreputable: the constant imitation of trademarks from Microsoft and Apple (that you've got to think are done with an eye towards generating publicity), the rebadging of others people's open-source applications, the ludicrous claims of Windows compatibility. There's a feel that responsible Linux companies have, and they simply don't have it.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I've searched all over, but can't find the news articles from 2001 that covered Michael Robertson paying $10,000 to buy Lindows.com from some guy. Let's see... $2,000,000.00 / $10,000.00 = 200% ROI. That pour guy is definitely kicking himself in the seat today.
Of course, as already commented, many more are wishing they could kick Mr. Robertson in the rear since the terms "Windows" is once again available for M$ to claim as a trademark. Sadly, I thought Mr. Robertson and Lindows... errr, I mean Linspire actually had the money to take it through the court system and put a smack down on Redmond. But in the end, money always wins over moral conviction and the next guy with "...indows" or perhaps even "...dows" in his domain name can get trampled by the M$ lobbying machine and won't have the money to fight back. After all, we all know that M$ is willing to face bad PR to pursue their interests.
I suppose "Hindows" might be good for targeting the Indian market...
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Yes, good settlement for both parts. I really wonder is this wasn't the outcome that Lindows wnted from the very beginning.
:)
As for FreeDows it shouldn't be an issue... while making a play with sounds is enough for infrigements (see the "mikerowsoft" thing a year ago... in a more domestic vein here in Lisbon a bar tried to spull something similar by choosing the name "Ar de Roque", and were promptly sued by Hard Rock Café) I thing that DOS itself can be used because there is ample prior art (Disk Operating Systems were numerous back in the day, and MS-DOS itself had several weird copyright issues. Look at FreeDOS for an example).
PS: O GNU/Hurd está num estado em que é utilizável e estou certo que dentro de algum tempo será de facto uma alternativa viável. Eu pelo menos uso-o
Of course, we've all graduated to BSD (hint: the new secret), so the only part that really bothers us anymore are the loads of noobs these people create, who run around saying ridiculously stupid things about Linux/Unix.
Not only has he changed his product's name to something non-lame but he also managed to get his biggest competitor to pay him to do it!
We're not happy about this - we're upset that Robertson gave up and sold out. It doesn't matter how much effort MS has put into promoting their non-trademarkable mark, it's not a reasonable trademark! A lot of us were worried that Robertson was in this for the money, not the principle of the thing, and we were, sadly, proved right.
There was no particular outcry when the OSS Phoenix browser was forced to change its name (to, eventually, Firefox). Granted, it wasn't MS who forced the change, but "Phoenix" also isn't a generic term of art. Not exactly the same as what you claimed, but fairly close. If you really want to test your hypothesis, why don't you make a spreadsheet for X11 (easy to fork gnumeric or oocalc) and call it X-cel, and see how many people rally behind you. I certainly won't.
I tell you what. You stop applauding MS's attempt to defend invalid trademarks, and I'll promise not to applaud any attempts on their part to defend any of their valid trademarks! If you can't make that deal, then you're clearly a troll, not "insightful".
Sure they're willing to pay, but only if they're forced to. If you don't have the cash to put up a fight, you're fucked and don't get a dime. That's called barratry, and that's not fair.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
What's so wrong with Linspire that you don't want them to join your following? I see this attitude everywhere, but I don't understand it. I hope this is something more than the script-kiddie "If grandma can use it then it sux: OSS should be hard to use" attitude.
Because Lindows, Linspire, or whatever you want to call it, sets up users to run as root. That is one of the major mistakes made by MS and is a wide open security hole. Having a bunch of rooted Lindows boxes causing havoc would be a black eye for Linux in general, not just the short-sighted company responsible. When problems start happening, most people are not going to make the distinction between Lindows Linux and more responsible distros - it'll just be Linux. Mandrake is not hard to use, and users are not set up to run as root.
The venture capitalists is the "Burcham Community Property Trust," which is controlled by the parents of Mr. Robertson's wife. According to http://lwn.net/Articles/81289/
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
Rindows is already taken by Chinese Lindows.
vvindows.com was registered on 14 March 2004 (according to the "whois" database). Looks like someone beat you to it.
They did? Who? When?
I never got this argument. It always seemed like sour grapes to me. What's so generic about "Microsoft Windows XP" or "Microsoft Office 2003?"
I don't think it's so much that some here actually believe it's too generic to be trademarked--they just want to strike back at Microsoft in some way out of some bizarre vindictiveness.
They claimed Windows compatibility (and poured money into the WINE project) prematurely, when it looked like it may be possible to actually accomplish it. Once it became clear that it wasn't going to happen, they did away with that marketing bullet-point.
Linspire also contributes heavily to a range of OSS projects, such as WINE, GAIM, Mozilla, NVu, Reiser4, etc. Xandros, on the other hand, doesn't (AFAIK).
Not to mention that they managed to do the unthinkable: get Linux into Wal-Mart and other mainstream places. They've gotten the topic a hell of a lot of press, too.
I'd say their distro may even come second to their bolstering of the "you don't have to settle for Windows" crowd.
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
See: http://www.nvu.com/
Linspire is coming out with a laptop product line named "Linspiron".
I'm grabbing:
c oms .com
:)
0indows.com
1indows.com
2indows.com
3indows.
4indows.com
5indows.com
6indows.com
7indow
8indows.com
and
9indows.com
Only $200 million, but oh well
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
OH, this is so RICH! You prove the parent! Too good, too funny!
speak for yourself buddy... those in the know are moving to Plan 9... BSD is just so passe...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
www.bindows.com get a piece of the Microsoft Pie (albeit a small one)? They have a motorcycle! Surely that's considered a threat.
Sindows is optimized for serving pr0n!
It causes damage. Much in the way leeches cause damage to fileshares, and web n00bs cause damage with non-compatable web design.
Relative ease of use attracts careless n00bs, who after getting comfortable cannot be convinced to do things correctly, do not the ideals in their heads in a way that would drive them to use the system correctly, and will never make any effort to inform themselves.
I'm pretty sure the subconscious ideal is that people will "come" to Linux, work their knowledge up of the system to do a sucessful install - in other words, they won't take the system for granted, and be much more likely to contribute to "the cause". Personally, having exposure to the internals having used Slackware and using Gentoo has driven me to contribute a little here and there, where I wouldn't have normally.
Another subconscious irk is that an easy install method is like cheats. If you are playing a challenging game, and you have a cheat sheet laying by you, you WILL use it sooner or later. Either way, it takes some satisfaction away since even if you did pull through without the cheats, they were always there for you, and so it seems like you haven't accomplished anything.
I suppose yet another way to look at it is comparing it to Freedom in general. You really can't appreciate any particular Freedom that you have unless you have fought for it.
#1 "Windows" is a stupid thing to trademark, anyway. It's a common word!
#2 Why would anyone want to name a Linux distro after Windows?
#3 Who would be stupid enough to take the risk that MS might sue them over a name?
#4 What kind of a name is "Linspire"?
#5 Someone should name their Linux distro "Pronghorn," just to aggravate the Microsofties.
'Microsoft will pay upstart Linux seller Lindows $20 million... [so that Lindows] will give up the Lindows name and assign related Web domains to Microsoft.
Has anyone reserved Gindows? How about 'Swodniw'. They could be valuable.
an ill wind that blows no good
Very informative point. And Mr. Robertson is carrying $10,000,000 of the company debt. I would guess they have a payroll in excess of $5,000,000. Also they must have $2,000,000 - $5,000,000 in annual expenses. (pure speculation, IANA accountant).
They sure could use this as a six month cash infusion and debt clearing payment. Even if the IPO pans out, they would have to grow the revenues by 25%-50% every year just to keep their balances up.
Have you Meta Moderated t
I bet M$ will start hunting down domain names to make sure nobody is close to theirs ;)
:)
:)
http://loffice.com/ !!!
http://loutlook.com/ !!!
http://lvisio.com/ !!!
let em spend those billions
Once you own a country, what economy will you take money from?
btw billy, if you contribute to poor economies and make them more prosperous countries through multi(m/b?)illion dollar investments, you will have more consumers who can afford your toys!
Educate them, and they will come.
Geez... that's really cheap, I mean
0 00 093639204000755/a97792a2exv10w24.txt
it's only 10 normal/basic homes in
La Jolla Californina (where Lindows is at..
err, was at.. Linspire is at now...)
You'd think it was worth a LOT more to MS.
5. Acknowledgement of Validity of Windows Trademarks
a. Lindows, and successors in interest hereby recognize and
acknowledge Microsoft's ownership rights in and to the trademark Windows
worldwide and all of the goodwill associated therewith. Further, they
acknowledge and agree that the Windows trademark at issue in the Washington
Case, the United States Trademark Registrations Nos. 1,872,264, 1,875,069,
2,005,901, and 2,212,784 therefore (hereinafter "Windows Trademarks"), and all
other foreign and domestic registrations and/or applications comprising or
incorporating Windows, are famous, valid, enforceable, subsisting and owned by
Microsoft. Lindows agrees to publicly acknowledge the validity of the Windows
Trademarks in a joint press release with Microsoft, as hereinafter provided for
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1282724/
If I were Lindows/Linspire, I would have told Microsoft to "kiss my big white hairy ass, I'm keeping the name the way it is". No amount of money is worth giving up what is rightfully yours.
- Ralph Yarro, Darl McBride
Double-U, I, N, D, O, Double-U, S.
uuindows.com!
2. www.windhose.com is still not owned by Microsoft. They don't sue it, even though they sued mikerowesoft.com. Now what is more similar, Windhose/Windows or Microsoft/Mikerowesoft? The former, i'd say!
3. Our Dutch government is idiotic pro-big-american-business. First with the vote about software patents (with which Microsoft, IBM and the like can sue smaller European companies out of the market). Then the case of MS against Lindows (it changed its product's name to Linspire because of the Dutch ruling, you know). It seems they care more about Microsoft than about the people that voted for them.
I actually thought it was impossible to hate a name more than "Verizon", "Cingular" or "Lindows".... but "Linspire" clearly takes the cake as the most god-awful name I can think of. Please fire the retarded monkies that came up with that. Please.
Linux does not inspire people. That is awful branding. It may "empower" people, or save them money, or free them from the microsoft tit, but it hardly inspires.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
However, it's a big win for Lindows. They get $20 million just for changing their domain name and company name. It's pretty clear that MS would have lost this case. You don't get trademarks to everything that even sounds like what you have a trademark to.
As a libertarian, I'm against trademarks, tradesecrets, patents, and copyrights to begin with. See the following articles:
Against Intellectual Property. Kinsella, Stephan.
Do patents and copyrights undermine private property?
Patents and Copyrights: Do the Benefits Exceed the Costs? Cole, Julio H.
Government and Microsoft: A Libertarian View on Monopolies. Rideau, François-René.
Against Intellectual Property. Martin, Brian.
The Libertarian Case Against Intellectual Property Rights. Long, Roderick T.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
The typical OSS "fan" will not admit that what attracts them to it is that it is "renegade" and "rebellious" and such.
That's because it isn't true. People use open-source software because it gets the job done. If you want to persuade us all that it's a rebel thing, you'll have back it up with more than hot air.
...is why people keep saying that "Windows" is trademarked. "Windows" by itself is not trademarked, whereas "Microsoft Windows" is. Even if people use an abbreviated version of the trademark in day to day talk, it doesn't mean that Microsoft owns the word, "Windows" any more then they own the word "win" or "soft". A owner of a trademark is not automatically granted the abbreviation to said trademark.
If someone created a company called Remus's Famous Cookies and trademarked it, it doesn't mean that they can sue another company that came out with "Amos Famous Cookies or Ms. Fields Famous Cookies" even if their trademark was granted first.
I think the big concern is how much of a bully Microsoft can be. For example, many people don't even realize that Wordperfect had a product called WordPerfect Office, (that was dos-based) long before Microsoft decided to bundle, Word, Excell and Access and call it Microsoft Office. However, WordPerfect was such a small company they didn't want to risk Microsoft stomping all over thier product so they changed the name of their suite of applications instead.
If I am ever sued by Microsoft for infringing upon their name, I would ask Microsoft to buy me a PS2, Gamecube, various Linux distributions, Firefox, etc as settlement.
Behold my new product: Microscrod Lint Toes
He starts a good fight... then sells out.
Nope. He just graduated with high marks from Darl's "Profit thru Litigation" school of business is all.
As for FreeDows it shouldn't be an issue... while making a play with sounds is enough for infrigements
Yeah, watch em pick up another $20M from Frito-Lay with that one ;)
Suudsu, that stuff is G-E-W-D.
...and I just trademarked the term "Lintellectual Property" and I'm gonna start suing everyone now.
Yup, dropped a factor of ten. Whoops!
Still, the point stands, 1/3000 of their cash hoard is peanuts or less.
Infuriate left and right
Typical "Comicbook Man" response. Proves the parent's point.
Last I checked Lindows had fixed this root problem. It by default creates a different account for root and the users (calls it an administrator password.) I'm not a Lindows user (Debian to be exact) but It's still good to get your facts correct. Then again this is slashdot.
Michael Robertson cares as much about Linux, free software and the opensource movement, as he did about independent musicians struggling to make a buck from the record industry.
He doesn't.
Anyone who remembered his tireless cattle calls to the masses of artists at mp3.com who naively got suckered into his morose diatribe saw this coming a mile off.
MR is nothing more than an agitator that looks to generate revenue from being a nuisance to real (albeit evil) companies. If he can utilise the surrounding community of underdogs (yesterday new musicians, today the free software supporters) then its even better - free lobbyists!
All he cares about is making a buck, and doesn't mind what bandwagons or communities he has to jump on in order to succeed at this goal.
Linspire will die, don't even bother with it. MR will sell out just before the vaporous company dissipates and move on to something else to exploit.
I for one am very pleased with the name change and I strongly feel that it made business sense for Lindows.
The transition will be easy for customers because Lindows's flagship product is already using the new name. Mostly everyone in the Linux community and afar knows that Linspire is just a replacement name for Lindows. The web site designers did a good job of introducing visitors to the new name with animated graphics showing the "dows" being pushed away and many redirects from previous web site names such as lindows.com to linspire.com. I doubt that anybody which would have given Linspire a shot remains confused.
This settlement is also fantastic news for Lindows and it proves to us all that even Microsoft lost faith in their trademark and case. By paying Lindows $20,000,000 dollars and providing them with royalty free licensing for Windows Media, the suit that Microsoft initiated backfired horribly. Some of you may think that $20 million dollars is not that much for Microsoft and losing the trademark in the United States would have cost Microsoft more and you might be right. While it may not be a lot for the richest company in the world, it is a huge sum of money for a company which has yet to become five years old and which was probably not worth more than $20 million previously. That leads to question whether a name which sounds hauntingly like Windows is worth more than the company which sports it and especially at a time when the company has a new name which customers are familiar with.
If your sole goal is to hurt Microsoft quickly, you will be disappointed with this settlement. It would take much more than $20 million to put a dent in Microsoft's profit machine, even two BILLION would not be a world of hurt for Microsoft. You cannot stop Microsoft by giving them meaningless fees, or going after their name because they are the richest company in the world and they will recover from billions in fees in less than a year and with their resources a name change is not as difficult as one might think. Lindows could not drag this on forever, especially since with every day of compounded legal fees they were hurt more than Microsoft was by the lawsuits and even if they won some, there are always so many more countries which Microsoft can challenge them in. Attacking Microsoft in the way mentioned above is like stepping on individual ants in an anthill rather than cutting of their food supply or poisoning their queen. The key is to cut Microsoft's food supply, make a better product than Windows and Office and eventually you will see their margins drop and even if you do not intend to hurt Microsoft it will be an inevitable consequence.
If your goal is to give consumers a better alternative at a better price than Microsoft should really be afraid because the side effect of this will hurt Microsoft more than any fee or name change can. It will put an end to their ridiculous pricing and put them on alert, they will serve their customers with the dilligence they deserve. Microsoft's unhealthy dominance will not last!
With this settlement Lindows can finally compete without being hassled and attacked daily by Microsoft's enormous team of lawyers. In addition to this, Lindows is getting a big cash injection, for a company like Lindows 20 million is definitely not pocket change. This money will only help Lindows grow at an ever faster rate and provide products of much higher quality than Microsoft's all at a lower price. This is Microsoft's real fear and their unwittingly making it come to life. Microsoft will be in a world of hurt when their core business becomes seriously challenged by open source, Linux and brave companies like Lindows.
I can only judge Lindows from the limited information I have, but from what I know I'm certain that Lindows made the right choice and do not see other viable alternatives. Regardless of the situation in the United States courts Lindows would have been at risk from attacks in the rest of the 190+ countries and as we all know Microsoft was busy
Damn let's make a distro and call it Next Window. Microsoft will sue you, then settle giving you a lot of money. Ok i may be stupid but seems that anytime M$ sues and lose, they obtain anyway what they want by giving the winner lots of money. They should stop this attitude or being sued by M$ will become a job.
He planned this all along! He knew he could get 20 million dollars by just using the name Lindows. He knew Microsoft would sue and lose and that he could get some payoff settlement.
The guy is a damn genius, he started the company with 10 million dollars and now he just got 20 million dollars back.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
Hey, why don't you get in touch with our hero Mike Rowe, and offer him a top position. Then you can sell "MikeRoweSoft Windows". Or maybe make them with a soft vinyl frame, so they'le be "MikeRowe Soft Windows". Since the product will be real windows for buildings, your lawyers will be able to argue reasonably that they aren't competing products. But Microsoft will sue you anyway. ...
3) Profit!
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
If I lived in the Bay Area, I would register Marindows as a domain name. Since I don't, maybe I should do CoeurDAlendows.
Mike in Idaho
Actually, there's a pretty long history of naming products generically.
MS SQL Server is a good example.
But looking back a bit, what about the IBM PC?
If you have - or aspire to having - a well-known name, you can get away with it. If you succeed, the field is yours.
What used to happen was that companies made products and the field got named after them - Xerox, Hoover (possibly UK only), Sellotape (UK), the list is long.
If the field is large and your name too generic, you won't get noticed.
"Cats like plain crisps"
When are they going to get a name that really reflects the true nature of the product? I was always thinking of something along the line of "Linshit".
Oooh, nasty! Can GPL code be modified to use an MS proprietary lib & not violate the GPL???
Bom, acho que nunca se sabe, o FreeDows não somente tem um nome parecido mas também imita o ambiente windows, acredito que ícones/estilos de bordas o microsoft possa ter direitos de copyright e decidir se usar disso por não gostar do nome.
:'( não sou muito fan dela.
:(
;)
É aquela coisa, deles não se pode deixar de esperar nada, o jeito é esperar que realizem poucos atos danosos à comunidade, um ato deles que foi um crime por exemplo foi depois de integrar o IE com o win e ganharem o mercado eles deixarem de melhorar o navegador, o IE é uma pedra no sapato de qualquer criador de páginas(mesmo os ignorantes pois estes acabam de tabela aprendendo tudo errado) mas não seria se tivessem seguido os standards(vale lembrar que o IE foi o primeiro navegador compilante com CSS de nível 1).
Eles realizam coisas muto danosas, afetam os outros, isso é foda, eu não ligo por eles terem a maioria do mercado, mas me importo por afetarem diretamente outros softwares.
Estava eu olhando para o hurd esses dias, é aquilo, a esperança sempre se vai ter mas acho que o projeto não está muito ativo, ao menos pelo que vi na página da fsf onde ele está hospedado.
DragonFly parece um fork bastante promissor, pena a licença bsd
Triste também ver que me moderaram para baixo só porque não entenderam o que eu disse já que o slashdot não impoe idioma algum ao que escrevemos
De qualquer forma vou ver se dou uma olhada mais a fundo no hurd
It has costs Lindows something like $1.4 million in legal fees to pursue this. Not everyone has $100M+ in extortion money from Viacom (what they paid Robertson for MP3.com) to spend on legal fees and establishing something similar enough to a real company to be sued.
Last I checked Lindows had fixed this root problem.
From the Linspire knowledge base:
Obviously, root is the default, and n00bs won't know any better. Mandrake adds a non-root user as the normal login by default.
. . .but It's still good to get your facts correct.
Yes, you should try it. I didn't say that Lindows didn't allow non-root users, only that the default user ran as root, which is a Bad Thing.
Microsoft claims to own the name Windows as applies to computers. It's not Lindows fault that they don't own it; it's Microsoft's fault for choosing a generic name (and thus creating the confusion). Maybe they should change their name; wasn't X-Windows there first?
Saying otherwise is like saying that OpenOffice and StarOffice (or MySQL) should change their names because they are too similar to Microsoft Office (or Microsoft SQL Server). Yes, their is similarity; yes, it may cause confusion; yes, it's Microsoft's own fault for picking an *obvious* name for their software.
Uh... I have a new operating system... it's a umm FreeBSD based distribution, and it's called uh... WindowsBSD. There. I copyright the name. WindowsBSD.
SUE ME NOW YOU BASTARDS!!!!! (please?)
No, typical sane response. Somebody condescendingly dismisses open-source support as a juvenile attitude, and I gave a much better explanation for the support and asked him to back his opinion up with facts instead of mere conjecture.
Why pick a name that rhymes? Why not just use Windows? The case would seem even stronger if someone made their own company (e.g. Lawsuit Scams, Inc.) and released their product as Lawsuit Scams Windows.
/. start liking him?
Question: if this is Darl's next project, will
Just ask this dude .NET developer license.
I wonder if Linspire is going to get a free
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
I'm getting Smegindows.com, and Microsmeg.com, and I'm hoping to get more than $20M each just by getting Kryton to go over there and terrorize them.
Like what I said? You might like my music
Shit, if i weren't moving to texas I could try Redmondows. ;)
Like what I said? You might like my music
We aren't mad about ease of use, and why does everyone think this kind of moaning is insightful??
:)
Haven't you read about the problems of Linspire, or their licensing scheme? What would you rather have, a high learning curve known product, or a scam to rip off your Grandma. I know which one the AARP would chose, and they'd choose wrong
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I count 25, can you send the extra one to me?
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
BeOS Personal Edition Max ver 5.0 has a Live CD I've been playing with on my desktop at work. I'm not leet enough to be thought of as uber, so you'll have to pick a different one. :-)
http://www.beosmax.org/html/
Oh my gawd, they killed kenny's mod points!!!!
I guess I don't understand how breaking the DRM cost any royalties at all. From my understanding, it allows people to run Linux on the XBox, but if you buy an XBox, you have already paid for the XBox OS. You're not taking anything away from MS, because you paid their royalties when you bought the XBox.
Well, (a) there's the obvious -- people dump Linux on the XBox, Microsoft depends (like many console makers) on royalties to subsidize the sales of each XBox and sells them at a loss. However, I was thinking of (b) the fact that MR's funding to get Linux on the X-Box also neatly allowed piracy of XBox games. For the $200,000 MR put up, he probably made his money back many times over in going after Microsoft.
He may be selling cheap PCs with Lindows/spire on them, but I've never actually heard of anyone buying one.
He cut a deal with Wal-Mart to have them sell PCs preloaded with Lindows. He also had some sort of commercial application sales thing where you could buy new applications just by clicking a button on your desktop or something. I didn't play around with it.
and from what I recall, the "Linux on XBox" contest stopped short of being able to hack the XBox without using additional hardware.
Nope (see 007/Mech Assault method) -- as a matter of fact, MR's second prize was specifically for whoever managed to get things running without hardware modifications. It was eventually done by taking advantage of non-robust handling of save game data.
Oh, and in his latest suit, MR managed to legally weaken the trademark of Microsoft's core product *and* grab $20 million for Linux development.
He's not the sort of person that you'd want to have working against you.
May we never see th
From the link:
IE, "Despite telling the press the agreement exists so they know to look for it, and despite the fact we are legally required to give a copy of it to a government agency who will hand it out to any Joe-on-the-web with the brains to look for it, we're still saying this thing is confidential."This thing is as confidential as Windows is non-generic -- IE, only under the letter of the law. These lawyers have been swallowing too many camels and strained at too many gnats. It's more amusing than Bush trying to have previously public documents declared classified.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
"Microsoft will pay upstart Linux seller Lindows $20 million"
Soon I am going to start a new company under the name of Microshaft... if all goes well maybe i'll get some millions too!
- "They misunderestimated me."
However, the bigger purpose behind this is to stop Linspire playing WMAs out of the box, thus furthering Microsoft's plans to tie playback of media to Windows.
Rich.
libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
..That will be my new domain and OS!. Of course it doesn't matter that I have zero experience with O.S.' like Windows. I will still get my $20m.
Muhahaha
now i'm restoring the 1890's 'sash' Windows in my house... if i get lazy and replace them with cheap 'upvc' Windows can i still use the term Windows...or can i say if you put plastic frames in your openings next door.... you've just knocked five thousand quid of the price of my house and yours!....err der-der bang goes the other side!....the right windows for the right holes please!
Hmmm. Or, it could be that many of us just like reliable, opensource software - alternatives to often buggy, proprietary, and costly commercial software.
It's just a thought.
Before the fix it during creation it only created the root password. Last time I tried it (about 6 months ago) it created the administrator account then asked the user if they would like to create a user account. This to me is about the same as what Mandrake/RedHat does in that it does not force you to create a user account but allows you to. I agree it should do a better job of informing the user what the difference is but for the average n00b Mandrakes explination doesn't help much either.
True, Mandrake does not *force* you to create a user account, but if you follow the default installation, as new users almost certainly will, you wind up with a non-root user who is automatically logged in when you boot. If Lindows followed the same model, I would have no problem with it. Robertson made it very clear during a Slashdot *interview* that users might be annoyed by entering a password to install software, so Lindows would not impose that terrible hardship. That kind of thinking is short-sighted and bad for Linux. One company should not be allowed to ruin things for the rest of us and the companies who try to make sure their users are secure. It's the same wooly-headed thinking that made Windows the security nightmare that it is today.
And here I am, working my ass off, not earning anything over the 16000 euro a year mark (with taxes).
I find this name-sue-ing idiocy rather ridiculous and morally incorrect.
I also think this 20 million is not very good for the further development of linux distributions. The problem with big money entering people's lives is that it is contaminating the free software movement with all sorts of bitter and smelly 'deals'.
Indeed, I'm now considering building my own 'theme' (Lindows is nothing more than that, in my opinion) as well (out of existing free ones), and name it Mirosoft, or Nicrosoft, or Mikrozoft, or Winnows, Linknows o.s.
Really, how hard can it be?
Mindows anyone?
--- It doesn't matter where I go, I'm not there anyway.