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Canadian Robot Could Rescue Hubble
NETHED writes "We have all seen Stories about The Hubble Space Telescope and its current problems. Since then, NASA has okayed the fix of the HST. It seems that America's neighbor to the North has some answers. Dextre to the rescue. The mission would not be decided upon until next summer says Sean O'Keefe. It seems that NASA saw this as a good way to listen to the public for about 1.6 billion dollars." Update: 08/11 15:45 GMT by T : Reader Michael Mol dug up a link with a more technical explanation of Dextre, noting "It looks like Dextre's normally supposed to be attached to something before it performs work."
I'm just happy that they decided not to ditch the Hubble.
The poster seems surprised that Canadians have a fix. It would make sense, since we built the thing.
Blame Canada!!!
It was poor timing on NASA's part, really, because just when the latest and greatest pics from Hubble were gaining mass popularity, they wanted to pull the plug. Maybe O'Keefe isn't the savviest politician?
The HST is one of the coolest tools we have for exploration. I'm rather glad that it will be serviced, and thanks to our country's hat (Canada) for stepping up.
doesn't show up to throw a wrench in the works.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Other than this project and the arm for the ISS (and possibly the shuttle) is there anything else that Canada has put into space? Are they particularly good at robotics?
Dextre looks like a Lego bot. Is this how NASA plans to save money?
A hope that Dextre won't be a prank in the good ol' tradition of Canadian sense of humor.
Great, but will it be able to service a device that wasn't built to be taken apart?
The Hubble wasn't designed to be entirely serviceable...that led to problems with previous servicing missions, most notably replacing the old defective mirror.
It looks like Dextre is supposed to be mounted to something before operating. Perhaps they're planning on a free controlled platform?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
O'Keefe is going to have to ask Congress for an extra $1.6B, which isn't budgeted. Isn't this about 5 times the amount a manned mission costs to do the same thing?
Is it worth it?
HCG 50a = 2MASX J11170638+5455016
11h17m06.4s +54d55m02s
There is an good write up on the bealagured hubble http://www.geocities.com/visitbipin/crazy.html here.
It goes through all the seemingly endless problems hubble has had!
Given the budget why not replace Hubble.
If at some point NASA won't be willing to maintain the hubble anymore, how about transfering it to ESA? (petty nationalistic interests aside.)
Dextre is a clever name for a two armed robot. In classical latin Dexter is the right hand and Sinister is the left hand. That is why we call people who have "two right hands" ambi-dexterous. I'm not going to make any jokes about left handed people being sinister in case they ended up with all the mod points today.
Okay, we've proven that we're good at building huge robotic arms. Canada == Huge arms in space. Now what about some legs, eh? Then, once we have the legs, if we put some funding into it we could put the two together and build some giant Canada-space-mechs. It's cool even without the "giant robot" factor.
1. Build huge space-mechs
2. ???
3. Profit!
It practically sells itself!
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
First they built the big Arm thing that goes inside a shuttle.
Now they've made a cylinder with two arms! and a wiener-prod.
What will they think of next?
But seriously, I think it's great if Hubble can be repaired. More power to you guys.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Are we going to run back to mommy every time we stub our toes in space?
Being on the frontier is dangerous; every single one of the astronauts knows this and signed up for it.
If any of them don't want to fly Space Shuttle missions anymore, then don't make them. But I'm sure enough would volunteer for a manned Hubble repair mission that it wouldn't be a problem.
Besides, we need to keep Hubble going; The Webb telescope is NOT a replacement for Hubble - it looks at different wavelengths; if we could ever get both of them operating at the same time they could be used in a complimentary fashion.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Here's a good link from the Canadian Space Agency's web site on Dextre (Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator): http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/eng/csa_sectors/human_p re/iss/mss_spdm.asp
Is the $1.6B cost of this in US or CA funds? 'Cause I got about $1.6B Canadian back in change from my Value Meal yesterday...
--AC
Its aboot time the Canadians got involved, eh?
I just hope they don't follow this script with Hubble.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Just saw an interview with Ivan Semeniuk on CTV news (Canadian channel), and the new Dextre robot won't be ready until 2007. Better late than never I guess.
Too bad all the competing projects do not work together. If the Hubble telescope was 'designed' for docking, it could have been pulled to the ISS and attached.
Since the seemingly forgotten ISS needs inhabitant refreshes every so often, the cost for upkeep of both could be lessened - parts could be sent w/the new batch and damaged parts returned w/old.
Dextre is a very versatile robotic tool. It can work solo, fixed to one of the base points (known as power data grapple fixtures) along the side of the Station or on the Mobile Base System.
From the link you provided.
I'd assume it is running solo.
After watching many of NASA's blunders recently and seeing some of the excellent work being done by X-Prize contestants (SpaceShip One) for little money, I have become convinced that NASA has become so bloated and inefficient that it is basically Amtrak in space. The whole organization should be nuked and the private sector should get all the grants. The money would be spent more efficiently.
I for one welcome our new Canadian Robot overlords.
In Soviet Russia, um.... Natalie Portman, um
Oh nevermind... I've got nothing
MD Robotics has played a vital role in NASA space programs. It's the same company that has built the CanadaArm and CanadaArm2 and is now providing with Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator for HST.
I am very proud to see Canada (and MD Robotics, since it has a development lab in my hometown) play a vital role in ISS (with CanadaArm and CA2) and now the HST.
There was a blurb about this on Space channel (Canadian Sci-Fi) about a month ago, showing a prototype in action.
CCCP1
A shuttle launch costs at least $500 million not including the enormous fixed costs of shuttle related centers and personnel. Add that to the risk of defying the Columbia investigation recommendations and the political reality of public support for the Hubble pork barrel and I'd say the figure sounds reasonable. Furthermore, the mission stands to give a big boost to robotics in general.
an ill wind that blows no good
However, most of our (Canada's) Research has gone into underwater exploration. This only makes sense since over 80% of our border is coastline. This is where to look for examples of canadian robotics.
Other examples of advances from canadians is some of the more advanced Meterology satallites that have been designed and developed here in our humble country.
For some references you can check out..
The ISE Laval University
and a list of others
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Does it seem like NASA made the most publically sucsessful project into a false sacrificial lamb in order that they might both increase their budget by special appropriation and appear to be managing their budget by cutting costs on supposedly outdated hardware.
It seems that their gambit is paying off. The public (ok, a bunch of geeks) wailed loud enough that congress is willing to consider special funding.
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
This would also set a precedent for adding new capability instead of spending huge sums to maintain the old stuff. Why shouldn't we have several Hubble-type scopes instead of just one, anyway?
Sustainability and energy independence essay
Robot Mandark and Robot Dextre went at it in the depths of space over who would be able to repair the Hubble telescope better.
Hubble sees very well in the visible and the near UV, so if we want full-spectrum coverage of unknown objects we are not going to be able to get it with just the Webb telescope.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
unless you make it from old Klein bottles!
Sustainability and energy independence essay
We have the mod points everyday, Dexter...
--
You can't even do our secret handshake
HOSERS HOBBLE HUBBLE!
:)
Would be an appropriate headline for the newspapers, I think
If this one cocks up, think about all the new verses to the song! Oh yoy! :)
Here's an update on the previous "wow look Canada does stuff" story: the first attempt at flying the first human powered helicopter has failed.
I think it would be better for NASA (or rather, the taxpayers) to subcontract with Rutan. Rutan and his crew could probably do it for a lot less, once they get their system to the point of putting astronauts in orbit and bringing them back. Given the amazing speed at which Rutan seem to work, his crew could be ready by the time NASA decides to launch their rescue mission (of course, that would be after spending a couple of billions dollars of other people's money).
Put one of these on each of the remaining space shuttles so taht they can perform tile observation/repair, etc. when necessary without risking any lives.
I for one welcome our new Canadian overlords. And as a Canadian, I will be happy to round up americans to work in our subterranean robotic mines!
Why do you think the Canadian government is so against the weaponisation of space? So when the space-mechs are launched, there will be nothing that can stop them. And what do you think we've been doing with all that money we're not putting into conventional military equipment?
Similarly, the X-Prize is just a front for the daVinci Project, the real purpose is so we can continue to launch space-mechs when all the rest of the worlds' launch pads are smoking holes.
I never thought I'd see the words "Canadian" and "Robot" in the same sentence. God bless you, Cana-Bot.
If George W has driven you to drink, stop by for Happy Hour at http://www.timefordrinking.com
Look like they already worked that out... is that an ORU Temporary Platform on your chassis, or are you just happy to see me?
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Have people considered where NASA is getting this money for Hubble when they had not planned on saving it? Something else must be cut since NASA is on a tight budget. And this something else is a lot of earth sciences. So while we are looking into space, we are not studying as many important topics on earth.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Let's not forget another Canadian technological triumph, the Avro Arrow.
According to the most reliable sources I've been able to find, the Avro Arrow...
"Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive" -- hey, that's me!
Like the arm, it's a teleoperator, controlled by somebody with joysticks.
Given how much a shuttle flight costs, it would probably be cheaper to just run off another copy of the Hubble and launch that.
Only manned missions should be sent. Robots can't think or adapt, they are useless. Manned spaceflight is the only reasonable way to go. I'm sure it could be done for less than 1.6b. I think the Russians could send up a human, or perhaps a trained dog, and get this done for less than that.
(Reposted, account stupid moderators marking it as "troll" and "overrated")
"Dextre" is an adjective for someone who is good w/ his hands (adroit, skilled, ...). While English doesn't seem to have kept detre, it has kept dexterity from french:
Dexterity \Dex*ter"i*ty\, n. [L. dexteritas, fr. dexter: cf. F.
dext['e]rit['e]. See Dexter.]
2. Readiness and grace in physical activity; skill and ease
in using the hands; expertness in manual acts; as,
dexterity with the chisel.
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
Relax. People make fun of Americans all the time. When we take harmless jokes personally, we look like humorless bozos, don't we? Right! So do you, dumbass.
As for why all your decent comedians end up in the US, I think you've given me the answer: I can imagine a comedian telling some stupid men-and-women-are-different joke, and an entire Canadian audience getting up in unison, calling the Mounties on their cell phones, and having the poor dumb bastard arrested for "hate speech".
"America's neighbor to the North "
,invaded and sending hundreds of thousand of people to there death , until whe had enough and did what whe do best SAVE the DAY And people YOU put in arms way, of course where no HERO for that its somehow part of our job to protect your country and its people, its not your president and armed forces jobs, dont thanks us too ( cynical on that last part )
:
Canadian are "THE" American , but unlike the Etat-Unians where not ashame to say from what part of America where from.
Whe fought both World war from End to finish. Whe crushed and defeated the United States every time you declared war on us. Whe defeated the communist , Whe have the longuest unprotected border ( with no army right near it )because whe see no need to defend it because whe beaten the crap out of your entire overly numerous (1 to 10 000)army every time YOU declared war on us.
On september 11, 2001 , your country whas defeated
Whe are the US of A #1 OIL and GAS exporter , but you never figure that one out whe dont play the OPEP Arabs game.
Whe man NASA at 30% because whe have the best Aerospacial divisions without our own launchers.
CANADA stand for
C oureageous
A merican
N oble
A merican
D efender of
A merica
The lesser American that the United States represent Have Absolutely nothing To show THE REAL American , The Canadian
Well, if the HST is wobbling, those Canucks will just give it some beer, and that'll make it more stable, eh?
DISCLAIMER [required for the humor-impaired under the Americans with Disabilities Act] -- This is not intended to be offensive to Canadians.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
...is that Canadian cell towers ARE in space. Or so I infer.
Duh.
Dextre has a sibling robot named Dee-Dee, which is always messing up his work.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Hum, I always thought of the US as the 11th Province personally. I never will understand the US arrogance however, without Canada there would be no US space program, there would have been no moon landings, no phones, the list grows and grows...
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
Those of you who defend technology and globalism, I hope you can look an unemployed American astronaut in the eye while you explain your position. And be sure to explain who is going to put food on his family.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
That's only one tenth of the total NASA yearly budget. Definitely worthwhile so we can have pretty pictures for the few years between the Hubble and the James Webb.
This should be interesting... let's see how this one is spun. First it was BUSH HATES SCIENCE! I'm guessing we'll be back to BUSH IS PROPPING UP HIS CORPORATE CRONIES WITH CONTRACTS this time. Or do I hear a conspiracy theory dealing with how this was all a underhanded ploy to get more funding than originally provisioned?
Honestly, I'm probably not creative enough to come up with a high-quality spin. *sigh*
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/app/gallery/results2.as p?image_id=spdm
My link wound up in the article, and, as ToSeek points out, the rest of my comment is wrong! It was based on half-accurate memories from way too long ago.
(And for trigger-happy mods, compare the author of this comment to the author of the parent comment.)
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
I always chuckle when Canadians take credit for inventing the phone. Bell was a Scotsman! He had the idea while in Brantford and before he became an American, but I would say that was more coincidental as he hadn't spent that much time in Canada at that point.
Hum, I always thought of the US as the 11th Province personally. I never will understand the US arrogance however, without Canada there would be no US space program, there would have been no moon landings, no phones, the list grows and grows...
That is funny. Substitute Canada with Germany, moron. Additionally, your best aerospace guys came over from the UK during and after WWII. The majority were NOT 'home grown'.
I'm not going to make any jokes about left handed people being sinister in case they ended up with all the mod points today.
Okay, it's been a few years since I was in Latin class, but...
As I recall, the word 'sinister' picked up its present connotation for just this reason. Supposedly (according to my teacher, anyway), since lefties are a statistical minority (what is it--8% of the populace now?) the Romans believed that there was something wrong with anyone who was left-handed. This was attributed to evil spirits or somesuch inhabiting the person. Hence the association of 'sinister' and 'evil'. Really!
Anyone else heard this, or was my Latin teacher full of it?
--Ribald
That's all fine and dandy that your giant arm can fix a telescope, but let's put it to a test that counts, stick it in the box with Vlad The Impaler.
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
Take things on that second site with a big grain of salt. They don't seem to do any fact-checking on submissions to their site.
You mean... can it be... are you really suggesting... that I can't just grab random links out of a Google search and treat them as incontrovertible fact? Are you saying the INTERNET is UNRELIABLE?!
Shit! No WONDER my dick didn't get any bigger when I took those pills!
Um. Yeah, crap. I should've looked over the sites more carefully (at the very least) before posting links. Thanks for the heads-up.
According to this:t m
http://science.howstuffworks.com/hubble2.h
The HST cost $2.2B US to build. I'm guessing it might be cheaper to replace the thing after the original is serviced 3 times, but how will you know that it will need three servicings?
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
If Canada is fixing the HST, they might as well fix the PST and GST while they are at it.
I watched NASA TV durring the first service mission. The astronauts had problems closing the doors on the telescope. I'm wondering how a robot would be able to close doors. Especially when those doors look like they do not align properly.
I stand corrected. I know I read it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it anymore, making me doubt my memory integrity..
I did some searching, here is the comany that deserves the honor: http://www.asi-space.com/
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Eh??
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
what if its just not funny?
Let's face it, the real reason for the space program is to provide great jobs for privileged people. With what's been spent so far, we should have moonbases, space stations and all the other cool 21rst century technology that sci-fi writers wrote about fifty years ago. Thanks all you affluent people, I hope you enjoy living in hell, rather than up there in the heavens. To bad you've dragged the rest of us down with you.
Sell-outs are obvious, they're the ones with the money, of course.
"It seems that NASA saw this as a good way to listen to the public for about 1.6 billion dollars."
bullshit...i am the public and i think they should abondon the old peice of shit. make a new one make a better one hell make a terrestrial finder. Yes it was cool to look at galaxys and nebulas and exploding stars...bet now lets find the next cool thing rather then waste money on the same thing. There is no new science with the hubble...its just a giant, and expensive desktop background generator...how about we make something that not only generates cool desktop images but also helps advance our knowledge.
If they run with this, it'll give a good boost and test for remote operation of a robot. This could lead to remote operation of robots on the moon (construction gear) etc...
MD who makes it have a real long history of cool stuff. They were the first in the world to build a mobile satalite (sp) ground station in 1966.
I met McDonald & Detweiller in richmond about 25 years ago and we discussed a variety of things. Also toured their ground station factory (where they build them for sale around the world). Amazingly smart guys, and some kickin technology.
I think there is more value to this than just fixing up the HST. It can open the door to some pretty slick remote operations in the future with robotics.
Plus, a big plus, since it's a Canadian robot, it can open beer bottles, guaranteed. Probably can drive a Zamboni too.
Is it me - or are there a lot of canadian robots coming up?
I think I am going to have to start writing entries for all these in the Robot Knowledge Center.
How many robot building slashdotters are there out there?
OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
a particular department of my employer that i used to work in had 7 of us...all left handed... I live in the UK...population ~60 million, you do the maths (math for those less able to cope with the english Language)
My other OS is also FreeBSD
Why are we spending so much money on such an old machine? I get the question all the time, should I invest tons of money to upgrade my P2 400mhz computer? Why when you have no where to go with it? its using a BX motherboard the most you can do is upgrade it to a p3 slot1 cpu, and that would do nothing. And if you wanted to upgrade it to a p4, you would need a new powersupply, new motherboard, new ram, new video card, new sound card, new faster harddrive(who wants a 5400rpm harddrive) and new cpu. YOUR BETTER OFF GETTING THE NEW COMPUTER! Dont waste your money on an old machine when you can take the same money and invest in something new and better. So ditch that POS and lets build a new one!
keanmarine.com
i am the public
No, you are a retard.
I hope the robot be wears a little Mountie uniform.
Shhh , dont try real history on them , they might figure out whe (Canada) beaten the crap out of them and there capital a couple hundreds years ago ...
Dextre? Do they mean Dexter?
How is this supposed to be pronounced? Dexter or Dextra? If it's pronounced Dextra, why didn't the Candiandnans just name it that? Or else why don't they just call it Dexter?
For those who doubt it can be done, they've been doing demos of each required task down at Goddard for the past few months. You can tune in live to watch them work with MDR's ground-test model of the SPDM (Dextre) on the Hubble mock-up in GSFC's clean room. Go here:
http://www.truelook.com/
Click on the hubble link (be sure to have Java, unfortunately)
"i am the public
No, you are a retard."
Yes it is retarded to think that money could be better spent on a hubble 2 rather then keep using the same old tech that advances nothing either in the the state of the art or in science knowledge....but yeah it good using the same old shit...just look at how successful the shuttle program has been...oh wait....
stendec@gmail.com
The Hubble Space Telescope uses a single mirror,
and the onboard instruments provide a broad
spectrum (including visible light) sensitivity.
The proposed Webb Telescope is NOT a direct
replacement. The Webb telescope uses an array
of smaller mirrors to obtain its sensitivity,
AND it is IR (infrared spectrum) ONLY.
Give a good lawyer a fundamentalist-religious jury, and he'd have a conviction before lunch. Slam-dunk.
Who defines "reasonable grounds"? The jury.
The law can say whatever it likes, but judges and cops can "interpret" it as they please, and if the weight of public opinion is behind them and a jury sees it their way, they'll get away with it. Some laws aren't enforced; lots of places have laws on the books against witchcraft, being naked in your own house (?!) and all kinds of other crazy crap. In practice, the law is what people are willing to agree to pretend it is.
Look at how the Commerce Clause in the US Constitution has been stretched all out of shape to allow Federal interference in virtually everything. The courts have gotten away with it because they're using it to interfere with pernicious racism, and most of us down here in the States have the good sense to regard pernicious racism as an unmitigated evil. Some people do complain, but the perception (largely accurate, in my opinion) is that those people are in fact racists rather than rational legal scholars. So we mostly just ignore them.
Of course, you can only bend a law so far before even your supporters get queasy. Which is why you want the default state of your laws to be as loose as possible.
Finally, I'd like to ask just why, exactly, Canada needs these laws; if you're limiting people's rights in any way at all, there'd better be a darn good justification for it. If you're going to be putting at least some innocent people through the misery of arrest, trial, and (with any luck) acquittal, there'd better be some significant benefit to society. I don't see any benefit here at all: The laws won't make the bad ideas go away. They haven't made Ernst Zundel go away. They never will, either. Some people are crazy. That's just the way they are.
(And don't tell me that innocent people will never be arrested and go to trial for this stuff; that's precisely why we have courts, and precisely why the law has a section entitled "Defences".)
So we've got zero practical benefit, and a real potential for abuse. The only rationale is "Yeah, but the people who'll get clobbered are assholes who nauseate decent people". True! They are. Throughout history, nations have passed laws to clobber folks with loathsome ideas even when they were just shooting their loathsome mouths off and not actually harming anybody. It's usually called "religious persecution", but "Stalinism" is another popular term.
Throwing somebody in jail for saying stupid shit is fundamentally evil and crazy.
But I'd bet that there are some significant costs in manufacturing another one based on custom fabrication. My guess is that whatever templates were used in original construction are no longer available, and some of the folks that did the original work are no longer in the workforce. Some of the original engineering costs would be reduced, but the learning curve associated with the manufacturing of another one would not be small.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
Blame Canada! (Reposted, account extreme moderator assholiness)
the mirror was never replaced. thats the main issue, the mirror CANNOT bet replaced. it is an embedded system linked with several others, in a very real sense the heart of the vehicle. the service missions you refer to only installed several modules of mirrors which through careful positioning and a lot of work-hours managed to COMPENSATE for the mirror defect. essentially, through a series of space walks clusters of tiny mirrors were positioned over the defect and are designed to direct incoming data (light, infrared, etc) into the collector without distorting the final image. mind you, this is no simple task. I build telescopes as a hobby and if fixing a defect were this simple, everybody would be building them!
as a side note, to view certain parts of the spectrum at which hubble collects images, the mirror must be supercooled and otherwise thermal-regulated to function at all. thus, the main mirror is attached the a rather large mess of cooling and interchange equipment which was never designed to be serviced. with the difficulty of working in space, it really would be more affective to build a new unit and send it up rather than fix the hubble. youd pretty much have to chop off the rear two-thirds of the vehicle and replace it with a 'fixed' one to correct and update the mirror assembly.
it aint gonna happen. the service mission is simply to satisfy the few public outcries for NASA, and it being the dinosaur it is, sees only dollar signs ($$$$). a small effort for a huge price tag which in the end will be fruitless. id just sit back and wait for the next telescope.
its not like things are getting any better at NASA anyway. might as well try and hope for the future.
[coeus_theoi - missing_glasses@yahoo.com]
(too lazy to log in, yo)
"In 1979-80, state-of-the-art optics fabrication still relied on highly skilled opticians using manually controlled tooling and delicate hand polishing techniques. Today, using sophisticated computer numerical control tooling and equipment, such as waterjet cutting and ion figuring processes, Kodak fabricates similar mirrors in just a few weeks. To learn about Kodak's current large optics manufacturing capabilities, see Precision Optics & Systems."
(Reposted a fourth time, thanks to terminal moderator assholiness who waste precious moderator points on such stupid affairs)...