Can Infinium Compete In The Game Console Market?

Joe Barr writes "IT Manager's Journal is running a story this morning by Robin Miller and Matt Moen on Infinium Labs, the controversial game console maker. The long promised console finally appears to be a reality, but there are serious questions about Infinium's longterm viability in the game console market. ITMJ, like Slashdot, is part of OSTG."

Comments

Competition == good

[Chris Daniel]

I love watching technology developers compete, and especially using the better products that result. Go capitalism!

Re:Competition == good

[User 956]

Better products? That thing's "OMG XBOX HUEG", and twice as expensive.

Re:Competition == good

[Chris Daniel]

Okay, but it's better in performance than current products on the market, right? Someone else will make a smaller platform, and maybe even add features/performance. Better things do result from competition, and this is another step in the process.

Re:Competition == good

[gl4ss]

don't buy it then.

that's exactly how competition works, if the product sucks they'll sink.

Re:Competition == good

[jjhlk]

It looks to me like the XBox has the best multiplayer support of any console system, and a lot of very good games. The hardware is only a part of a console product.

Re:Competition == good

[Pxtl]

Funny you should say that - Ifnium is actually the perfect example of how modern capitalism has gone horribly horribly wrong. Capitalism may eliminate loser companies - but it doesn't eliminate the snake-oil salesmen who run them. They can, if sleek enough simply go onto bigger and better scams over and over again. Ifnium labs is run by a man with a less-than-steller track record for running businesses. Basically, a latter-day dotcommer, building business plans on promises, vapourware and venture capital. The console industry is an ideal place for this - gaming is extremely hype-driven, and appears to be a booming indusry. This is the ideal place to put a small company onto the market and with a little carefully placed buzzwords, watch the shares skyrocket.

Woohoo!

[Capt_Insano_X]

Woot! Already downloading the torrent of Duke Nukem Forever pre-release for it!!!

Re:Woohoo!

[kfg]

Damn! I clicked on the story just to make that joke.

But really, it does seem the perfect game to offer with a console aimed at people who don't play games.

People actually invested in this idea?

I think I'll take old Teddy Ruxpin voiceboxes, put them in a suppository shaped case, and market them as an iPod competitor to people who don't listen to music.

I'll go put in the order for my Modena 360 right now.

KFG

Re:Woohoo!

[GlassHeart]

Shame on you for pirating games that don't even exist. That's like stealing, you know.

Re:Woohoo!

[Deraj DeZine]

Damn! I clicked on the story just to make that joke.

I deeply regret your loss. This site could use more Duke Nukem Forever jokes.

Re:Woohoo!

[kfg]

This site could use more Duke Nukem Forever jokes.

There's a quota per story you know, and we've been running about a quart low.

Of course the very phrase "Duke Nukem Forever joke" is redundant.

KFG

Re:Woohoo!

[ndogg]

Don't bother. I started last year, and I still haven't finished downloading it yet.

Re:Woohoo!

[xsupergr0verx]

Still no Daikatana jokes?

Y'all are dropping the ball.

Re:Woohoo!

[KDR_11k]

Now they'll delay it due to "piracy concerns"... What's next, a source code leak?

Re:Woohoo!

[Dr. Cody]

Woot! Already downloading the torrent of Duke Nukem Forever pre-release for it!!!

Oh yeah, I heard about it--isn't that the version which uses the BitBoys GPU?

Re:Woohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the BitBoys Acceleon mobile designs they have income from already? ;-)

(Yeah yeah I know the history... "Voodoo Killer" indeed. But hey, their Pyramid3D before Glaze3D/Avalanche/Axe actually made it into silicon!)

Hard|OCP

[mrpuffypants]

Interestingly enough, on the 14th (last Saturday) at the same time that this conference with the Infinium Labs CEO was going on, Kyle Bennett from [H]ARD|OCP was on stage at Quakecon, smashing a Phantom console with a big fucking sledgehammer.

Pictures are up at qconpics.org in the Saturday gallery. The pictures of the smashing start here. It was pretty cool to see, and Kyle promised the crowd that next week they are going to have a story up all about the internals of what the Phantom REALLY has.

Re:Hard|OCP

[kfg]

the internals of what the Phantom REALLY has.

An eMachine in a silly case?

KFG

Re:Hard|OCP

[Anonymous Coward]

I see no smashing. Gallagher musta got the government involved, he has a patent on "using images and videos to show reverse engineering of watermelons and household items with sledgehammers".

Re:Hard|OCP

[0racle]

So its just another Xbox?

Re:Hard|OCP

[Anonymous Coward]

Except, what he smashed was a very early prototype it even pre-dated what was shown at E3. So whatever is inside of it, may have nothing to do with what is going to be in the released product.

If you look at the pictures of it vs. the newer white boxes I think Infinium is probably pretty happy to have it smashed.

Re:Hard|OCP

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, it is sad. How childish from kyle, even with all his problems with infinium, to do that. And who cares "about the internals of what the Phantom REALLY has". That misses the point so much that is isn't even funny.

I mean, the article is already ridiculous:

"The box, while cute, is essentially a mid-range PC without a CD drive " --- stupid comment. It doesn't have a scanner either. Nor a printer.

Then, there is the controller, which is:

"perfect for computing (or gaming) with your feet up or lounging on a sofa instead of sitting rigidly in front of a desk"
--- so yes, the phantom is not a PC, it is a console.

"If Infinium fails to sell many subscriptions, it will go out of business. If it sells a whole bunch, it will be heavily in debt. This is the problem faced by any company that needs to put out substantial amounts of money in front in order to generate long-term income. "
--- sure. Same for TiVO. That's the point with subscription based services bunling hardware.

"Also note that $50 million is enough to get about 138,000 subscribers going, assuming no investors who have already put money into Infinium demand a piece of this pie, and that the Operations Cash Fairy suddenly comes down from fairyland to pay all the company's operating expenses during its first year or two of full business activity. But eventually investors will want their money, the Operations Cash Fairy will run off with the Easter Bunny to Never-Never Land, and "up to $50 million" may turn out to be $42 million or $3 million or some other number between $0 million and $50 million, with the exact amount depending on the whims of the investing public and the country's general economic condition at the moment the shares are offered"
--- okay. This is stupid on so many level, that it is hard to start. First, this is not journalist. It is a rant. Second, investro can't "demand a piece of the pie" to a company that is not public and is heavily in debt. Third, if Infinium is too successfull and heavily in debt, it will have zero problem raising money.

"If Infinium delivered streaming games without the Phantom box and charged $14.95 per month for a base subscription, its only upfront cost per subscriber would be sales commissions and distribution costs for whatever piece of custom software it used to run its games on clients' computers."
--- This, coming from a slasdot founder is really funny. Rob don't understand anything about making money. Selling games subscription to PC will ensure 1/ support nightmares, 2/ direct competition with game publishers, 3/ extremely low barrier of entry for competitors, 4/ not beeing an entertainment company, 5/ service beeing hacked under a week. It would be something TOTALLY different from what they try to do. This is akin to 'Apple must port OS X to windows to make money'. Geezus.

I could go like that throught the whole article. There is that 'hard core gamer' friend of rob (hence definitely not in the target demographic), that believes phantoms sucks, but don't whant his name published because he really really want to stay on the beta program. It is so ironic...

It looks like rob hate infinium because of their product positioning ("on-demand game provider for the whole familiy"). It recalls me the Apple's iPod announcment on slasdot. "Lame", was the word used, because the hard drive was too small and it was not USB, and it was Mac only, while apple was selling a non-painfull music listening experience.

Anyway, the Phantom will most probably tank, but the idea is worthwhile anyway. Getting a game-on-demand console to the family (/not/ the hard-core gamer). Such a box could easily extend to video-on-demand (DiVX), and could be a fabulous hit.

Of course, beeing the first-mover here is really a disdvantage. And infiniumlabs have quite a bad track record.

Re:Hard|OCP

[kfg]

Nonsense. You can buy games for the Xbox.

KFG

Re:Hard|OCP

[ravingidiot]

Woah, that's one bulky peice of work. Is it me or is there a trend towards consoles getting bigger?

Re:Hard|OCP

[fondue]

I absolutely agree. Hard|OCP should stick to what they're good at and not embarrass themselves by entering into playground feuds.

The title of the topic is gloriously wrongheaded also- the Phantom (and the business model it represents) is in no way, shape or form intended to compete in the traditional console market.

Re:Hard|OCP

[SatanicPuppy]

Too true. People keep talking about competition, but there are three major console makers already, each of which can beat these guys into the ground. Add to that the fact that it's been vaporware for years, and pardon me if I don't have any hopes for its long term, or even short term success.

Re:Hard|OCP

[Zak3056]

I agree with most of what you have to say, with the exception of the following:

Selling games subscription to PC will ensure support nightmares

The major problem with supporting PC games is that the platform is continually advancing, and there are a massive number of variables to be dealt with--CPU type, graphics card core and manufacturer, amount of RAM, type of sound card, etc, to the point where there are literally tens of thousands of unique system configurations. Given that Infinium would be dealing with a single, static configuration directly under their control, supporting it won't be as bad as you think.

Re:Hard|OCP

[Anonymous Coward]

You misread (or I miswrote) ? The "support nightmare" thing was in answer to the suggestion of roblimo that infinium should not give the hardware, but sell a subscription for games running on the user PC. Hence, support nightmare.

Read again:

"If Infinium delivered streaming games without the Phantom box [...]"
--- [...] Selling games subscription to PC will ensure 1/ support nightmares [...]

Infinium model have lower support cost.

Re:Hard|OCP

[Wilde_Karrde]

I was about to write how the Phantom is still vaporware because we've still only seen renders of the box. But I followed your link and found this one and I guess it might be for real...
It's something to have the first look to be of the reporter smashing it up.

I bet Nintendo and the like have nothing to worry about.
-wildeKarrde

Re:Hard|OCP

[Anonymous Coward]

"okay. This is stupid on so many level, that it is hard to start. First, this is not journalist. It is a rant. Second, investro can't "demand a piece of the pie" to a company that is not public and is heavily in debt. Third, if Infinium is too successfull and heavily in debt, it will have zero problem raising money."

Obviously, you've never dealt with investors. Private corporations still have shares, but those shares are just not traded publicly. The investors, officers, founders, etc... all get a piece of the company.

And to answer your other point, why would an investor throw more money into a company who is just getting further and further into debt? They wouldn't. Would you keep giving money to your friends if they just blew it and you were never repaid?

Think before you post something that you have no experience in.

Re:Hard|OCP

[AltaMannen]

They did have the phantom running (playable) at E3. The consoles were sitting on top of fairly large covered cabinets though so you never know where the video signal came from.....

Cross platform...promise?

[justkarl]

I think that this would work great, if it was in fact cross-platform. But if it only plays PC, then it's just as good as a PC with a cable modem.

Re:Cross platform...promise?

[gl4ss]

cross platform with what?

seriously, nes?

what i'd be worried would be that they've locked it down so that you can't install nes emulators and stuff like that..

Re:Cross platform...promise?

[aardvarkjoe]

cross platform with what?

If I can't play all of my Mac games on it, I'm not buying.

Re:Cross platform...promise?

[byoung]

Like, Breakout, Super Breakout...

Photoshop.

Re:Cross platform...promise?

[coopaq]

Well jsut cross you fingers it is a money loser for the company ala Xbox for Microsoft so we can get some cheap hacking hardware!

Re:Cross platform...promise?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah photoshop is just a gloryfied connect the dots right?

Re:Cross platform...promise?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can bet your bottom buck that they WILL, in fact, have it locked down to their game downloading and launching frontend. I don't think that hopping back to the OS and doing what you want is intended functionality at all.

(Although it might be achieved just like with all the other consoles which have been made to run non-intended software --- if anyone actually cares enough to try to hack this joke of a piece of hardware)

to compete..

[gl4ss]

they would have to get it out finally, right?

or are they planning on publishing it with DNF?

or maybe integrate steam into it.. and hl2.

I doubt it.

[OrthodonticJake]

This is everything that people are currently fighting against. With a content system that is dependant on and monitored by a third party, I can't see anyone wanting to use this for very long. Not to mention the fact that it is strongly reminiscent of a pc; if piracy ever gained a foothold, it would be over. I think it will end up as a sturdy support for your N-Gage to rest on.

Re:I doubt it.

[gl4ss]

* if piracy ever gained a foothold *

yes, as we all know pc games biz died in the '84 due to rampant copying.

Re:I doubt it.

[AndroidCat]

They still haven't said whose games they'll be renting. Maybe they're hunting down abandonware by companies that are so out of business that no one will sue them.

Re:I doubt it.

[Fancia]

With a content system that is dependant on and monitored by a third party, I can't see anyone wanting to use this for very long.

How exactly does this differ from the other consoles? The other company also control the games released and will often refuse to license something if they disapprove for whatever reason.

Re:I doubt it.

[rhyno46]

If piracy ever gained a foothold, I guess they could turn the service off. Some piracy will be good for the company as a whole since it will bring "customers" who would otherwise not use it. The trick will be turning them into paying customers.

Re:I doubt it.

[KDR_11k]

If e.g. Microsoft shut down their game division or support for the XBox 1 (perhaps a few years after the XBox 2's release) you'd lose only the ability to play online. If Infinium shut down you'd lose the ability to get games, probably even the ability to play them at all.
Also, you can't trade in or sell games you no longer want.

Not For Me...

[th1ckasabr1ck]

I don't buy songs online, I would never buy anything through Steam, and I wouldn't buy the Phantom for the same reason - I like actually having hard copies.

Not to mention the fact that the Phantom rivals Valve for the honor of having the shadiest recent video-game related development cycle.

Re:Not For Me...

[rubberbando]

I agree, having a hard copy is a must. A friend of mine had downloaded (and paid for) Bejeweled for his cell phone. Well, a couple months later, something wierd happened and the copy of the game on his cell phone got corrupted and became unplayable. When he called his cell phone company for support, they told him he had to redownload it (and pay for it again) if he wanted the game back. I can see crap like this happening to users of the Phantom. At least for those who own PC games can reinstall if the game gets corrupted without having to rebuy it because they own a hard copy.

Re:Not For Me...

[geekoid]

YOu could buy songs from an online source that allowed you to burn it to CD.

No sense tossing out an avenue of music just becasue some companies won't give you a way to burn the CD.

Re:Not For Me...

[Llama_STi]

yes, except you're paying $29.95 for a monthly subscription, not paying per game you download. If your game gets corrupted, no biggie, download it again for free. Am I missing something here?

Re:Not For Me...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. You're missing the economics.

If your broadband goes down, if Infinium goes belly-up, if your credit-card is denied or something stupid happens to your account, then your box is shut off and worthless (until Linux is ported to it)

Your $29.95/mo is an overpriced rental fee. If there are no titles that appeal to you for a couple months, then you waste money waiting. If there is one title you like and you play it constantly for four months, then you just overpaid dearly for it.

Your first year wallet drain, according to my calcs, is $360 for the rental fee, $400 for the box for a total of $760.

If Microsoft axes the Xbox tomorrow, I still have my DVDs to play.

If Infinium tanks, you have nothing.

If you can't hold it in your hand, you don't have it.

Re:Not For Me...

[Llama_STi]

I agree that the monthly fee is like a rental fee. What you're not seeing is that you compare to renting, not to buying the games. If you rent six games a month, it's the same as the $30/month fee on the phantom. Now if you rent a game, do you get to keep it in your hand? yes, but only for 2-5 days or so. Now with the $30/month fee you can get unlimited games (hopefully there are a good number of games to choose from, that's the rub) and you aren't limited to the number of days rental that you are from a store. Instead of renting the same game four times just so you can finish it and then renting two more to make up your six/month, you can have it virtually forever and more and more games - not limited to six a month. See, compared to rental, it kills. Compared to buying, less so unless you suck at a game and play it forever. Don't know about you guys but once an adventure game is completed, it's shelved basically forever. That's why renting makes more sense in this case.

Re:Not For Me...

[rhuntley12]

What about if that one game is the only game you like for 4 months? You just paid $120 for it. What if you're DSL goes down, or you move? You're paying for something you can't use. what if they go belly up?

Re:Not For Me...

[Lisandro]

Thank God, and i thought i was the only one.

Online purchasing is cool, but useless for me if i can't keep a hard copy of relatively expensive stuff somewhere. Or a quality copy for that matter; MP3 is cool but i'm not paying for some file encoded at god-knows-which-bitrate.

Gaming as a whole...

[TWX]

...is just icing really. It doesn't do anything that other industries depend upon as far as manufacturing or direct-application research, and what contributions it does make to other industries are usually quite hidden or obscure. Companies that only do gaming don't seem to fare well anymore (Sega is a prime example) and right now success seems to come to companies with diversified business interests, of which gaming is only a small part. This new console company might do well for awhile, but if any slight swing away from console gaming hits then they're in for a world of trouble.

Re:Gaming as a whole...

[th1ckasabr1ck]

ATI? NVIDIA?

Re:Gaming as a whole...

[Jane_Dozey]

They don't just rely on the gaming aspect of their products. Anything to do with digital graphics is part of thair target market.
But I agree with you that some companies do fair well. How about the games developers? EA, rockstar etc.
And what about the likes of nintendo? Sure, they're not number one but they do pretty well.

Re:Gaming as a whole...

[thamaht]

Between April and June, Nintendo made 22.6 billion yen ($202 million USD). Who is Intel and AMD marketing the brand new high end chips they develop to? Oh, gamers.

Competition?

[Icarus1919]

I'm all for competition in the console market place, but the real question is if Infinium's product is going to be competitive at all. The way the console is being planned and the way it is being marketed are questionable at best.

Does anyone here truly believe that the Phantom is going to be in anyway competitive with the other consoles in the market? It seems to be trying to straddle to gap in between console and pc gaming, and I don't think it will succeed because a better gaming experience can be found on either side, but the middle will simply be a tepid experience at best.

IT Manager?

[viperblades]

IT Manager Journal such a reliable souce for gaming news! From what the article says they didn't play it. Also considering the fact that its not a publication that normally does gaming articles, id call it a hoax.
or as it was put in I,Robot
"*sneeze* , sorry im alergic to bullshit"

Re:IT Manager?

[Bill_Royle]

They're not talking about the gameplay. They're talking about the entry to market, which is what IT managers do.

The article itself isn't exactly that kind to the company anyhow, so calling it a hoax or bullshit is stretching things just a bit.

Re:IT Manager?

[viperblades]

The headline says
"Phantom game console works, but does the company's business plan?"

yet I see no mention in the article of ANY mention of them testing wether it works. Also from the article
"Insignificant barrier to entry. Almost any smart sysadmin can
figure out how to stream games and set up an ecommerce "try before you buy" online game delivery system,"

Granted they used the word smart with sysadmin but still not just anyone can make that, well legally.

And up until now...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I thought Nintendo's Virtual Boy was the biggest gaming disaster ever.

Re:And up until now...

[Darth]

...I thought Nintendo's Virtual Boy was the biggest gaming disaster ever.

i thought it was Daikatana.
(although Duke Nukem Forever is certainly giving it a run for it's money)

Re:And up until now...

[Anonymous Coward]

64DD, 32x.. =)

Re:And up until now...

[GregoryD]

Nope, the Power Glove

No where near as cool as Lucas made it seem.

Re:And up until now...

[KDR_11k]

Hm, reminds me, which sold more, VB or NGage?

How to succed...

[LoganGD]

Competition is sure avaliable. Succeding depends on the "geeky fat boys" liking it or not!

Didn't sega do this?

[Zakabog]

Didn't sega do this a long time ago with there Genesis system? Wasn't there some like cable TV channel you can get and if you had it, you could select games you wanted to play and play them from the channel? I think there was some special device you needed in your genesis to play. Anyway, too lazy to look it up but I'm very sure they had something like this.

That seemed possible back then (with games being ~1 meg) but now you need to download a 5 meg executable, then like 100 megs of textures and sound files for a map. And then there's models too, I don't see how this will work unless the games are really bad. Would work much better if the 29.95 included a 100mbit connection.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. I remember wanting the hell out of this, but out local cable people never carried it, AND it was pretty expensive, monthly, AND the selection of games was supposedly not that great...

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[Colol]

Genesis? Yeah, but heck, you could play games sent from cable TV on the Mattel Intellivision. I think I even recall hearing someone else say another console may have done it before the Intellivision (but I can't substantiate that).

I agree with you on the viability then vs. now, too. Just because I can spend a "long" time downloading a couple gigs over my broadband connection doesn't mean I want to. The current disc-based consoles have that instant gratification: buy (or rent, or borrow) the disc, pop it in, you're done. If I have to wait 8 hours for the game to download, am I really going to be as excited? Will I even care at all by the time it's finished?

Maybe Infinium has some brilliant solution to this, but I doubt it. If you're reading this, Infinium Labs, don't even think of that terrible "episode" approach Freeloader took. Ugh.

You've finished level one. The end. Please download and install level two!

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[MBCook]

Yeah, SegaTV as other poster have pointed out. I wanted it BAD but they never offered it. My cousins had it and I got to use it once or twice. Loading the game was a little anoying, and I don't think there were many games, but still very cool (especially in when, '95?).

As for now, the download would be a bit of a problem. There are some upsides if they partner with cable companies. My cable modem is capable of VERY high bandwidth (I've seen spikes near 1 meg), but I can only achieve it when downloading from MANY sources, or multiple files at once because very few servers on the 'net let you download things that fast (either through capping for traffic). So if Infinium set up distribution nets INSIDE the cable companies (IE it didn't have to go through the internet) then they could offer download speeds that would make things run better. Also, after enough download to start a level, you can continue to download stuff and cache it to the hard drive so in the future it seems like no delay. You can also keep that stuff there so that when you go back to play tomarrow you don't have to suffer through another download. When the HD is full, you just delete each game in the order of how long it's been since it was played and continue that untill you have enough space. Then it wouldn't seem that bad. Also, if it's not through the internet (inside the firewall at the cable company maybe) they could also avoid the cap on bandwith (mine was great untill my little cable company with good service was bought by Comcrud). Because if the quality of your games depends on how much you pay per month with a cable modem, they are in trouble. (Note: Not sure how DSL would figure into all this as I don't have it).

Now after all the goings on, I frankly don't trust the Phantom people, but if the offering ends up good I may jump on. The major crux for me will be how they offer things. Will it be like SegaTV (you pay your $30 a month, play any game on the service any time, no limit of games per month, and we have this huge library), or will it be more like PPV (you pay $30 a month, plus $5 to unlock each game (but it stays unlocked forever)). If there is no limit, then it sounds great (replace BlockBuster or Gamefly). If there is a limit (you can only play 4 game per month without paying extra) or something like that, they won't get my money.

But if they do it right, they have a business model for some real success.

My prediction? They will end up either a joke or just a footnote. Someone (probably someone bigger, like MS or Sony or Nintendo or something) will come along and do a better job (although probably 1+ years later) and THEN it will hit big.

SegaTV was too early for it's time. Most cable companies couldn't offer it (probably because of infrastructure). My cousins also got access to cable modems early. They lived very close to a cable "hub" or whatever so they got great service (as opposed to my Comcrud connection). Phantom is here at about the right time, but the company doesn't inspire trust (with all that's happened).

Whether Phantom or someone else, this kind of idea will succede soon. Instant access on demand games is just the kind of thing most gamers would love if you do it right.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[sgumby]

i found this on the subject.
They were suppose to get this working by satellite (remember... the large dishes)

1. Information for the games sent via satellite
2. Special adapters with on-board memory connect the Sega Genesis to the cable signal coming in
3. The user selects which game he/she wants to play, via on-screen programming and the D-pad controller
4. The game is then downloaded to the respective Sega Genesis machine. This takes less than a minute.
5. The user can then play the game for as long as he/she likes as long as the unit is turned on.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[CmdrChillupa]

It's called Steam. Made by VALVe. It seems to work for the most popular online game in the world.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[iantri]

Don't forget, however, that size of computer data files tends to increase somewhat proportionally to bandwidth. (It seems the bandwidth is starting to jump ahead of file size at the moment, however that is a seperate topic)

On a 1.5mbit connection, your example would download in a little under 6 minutes. Most connections now (at least in Ontario.. CDN$34.95 for 3mbit/640kbit DSL, similar price for 3-5mbit cable. Yay!) are at least 3mbit, so cut that in half.

Clever strategies could be employed to reduce noticable download time (download only as necessary, in background, etc) as well.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Disney already did something very similar with toontown; by streaming content in a sequential order it should be possible to reduce wait times significantly. Of course there will still be some wait times, but I would bet they can get it to be no worse than driving to the store ... and it's less of a pain for the parents.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[screwballicus]

It's worth noting that Nintendo also did this on the Super Famicom with the Satellaview, whose biggest claim to historical significance at present is its having been the platform on which the Chrono Trigger sequel (sort of) Radical Dreamers was produced.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[Epistax]

The sega channel was awesome. There was this one populous type game where you made these roman/greek like cities.. Anyone have the name?

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[brett42]

Unless there has been some kind of rift in the space-time continuum, the Genesis game out a wee bit before Steam, or Half-Life for that matter.

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

They had Sega Channel in our area, and we had it. It was pretty cool, the games downloaded really fast and would remain in the "soft cart" thingy until you replaced it with another game.

The con was that the selection of games, while large, was mostly crap most of the time...

Re:Didn't sega do this?

[parksie]

Akamai.

Whoohoo!

[Udo Schmitz]

I love watching technology developers compete, and especially using the better products that result. Go capitalism!

Whoooo! Yeah! Go capitalism! With all the Microsoft and VHS goodness! Whoohoo!

Re:Whoohoo!

[Chris Daniel]

Without competition, good products would never develop. We wouldn't even have ever made iron, for crying out loud. We'd still be living in caves and whatever else. Capitalism is the perfect system that fits human nature -- human nature is competition. However, I agree that Microsoft has abused the system by (seemingly) intentionally making its products buggy and low-quality in order to force their customers to upgrade/patch. No system is perfect, but capitalism is as close as we've gotten.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, Ayn, whatever you say!!

Re:Whoohoo!

[Chris Daniel]

:-D

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

What a wonderful compliment!

Re:Whoohoo!

[phatlipmojo]

Capitalism is the perfect system that fits human nature -- human nature is competition.

Sez you.
I say human nature is cooperation. And, hey, look, I presnted just as much evidence as you did.

Re:Whoohoo!

[KevinKnSC]

I presnted just as much evidence as you did.

You also have to add something like "without cooperation, we'd still be living in caves!" Then you'll have an argument as well-reasoned and supported as the parent.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Chris Daniel]

So you deny that the Cold War happened? That we as the human race even got to the point of the Cold War through innovation designed to outdo neighbors/enemies? Communism/socialism has never worked, not because they didn't have time, but because the ones who produce are punished for it, and eventually realise they're better off mooching. Then there's no one left to produce, and thereby nothing left to consume, and the system fails. Human nature doesn't like pain, last time I checked.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, in certain respects the human body does like pain. Or, more accurately the human body likes a byproduct of going into pain. Endorphin highs kicked off by minor pain(strenuous exercise or spicy foods being common examples...)

Re:Whoohoo!

[Chris Daniel]

"made iron" -- maybe I should say "forged anything from iron" ;-)

Re:Whoohoo!

[geekee]

"Sez you.
I say human nature is cooperation. And, hey, look, I presnted just as much evidence as you did."

Capitalism is as much about cooperation as competition. Just look at how many people must cooperate to produce a computer chip. You have everything from companies that make fab machines, fabs themselves, chip designers, packaging, etc. Capitalism forces cooperation since it's the only way to effectively compete,

Re:Whoohoo!

[linzeal]

Bakunin said as much when he laid down evolutionary theory to compete against the prevailiing darwinian logic that man somehow needs intense, prolonged, and ever present competition to succeed as a 'civilized society'. However, if there is any objective truth to which would be the better, it would lie in shades of gray methinks. Man at some levels needs to feel a certain pride when he excels in his tasks beyond what others can do or expect; however, man needs to feel the force of a community that has larger tasks at hand that likely are beyond any man's sole efforts or single lifetime. As these projects take on epic proportions that rival things already immense like the 5 gorges dam when even thinking in generations will be difficult to fully comprhend we may be able to better study the value of individuals over time to contribute to something impossible to fathom alone.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

You just proved the competitive nature of humans by presenting a competing view.

I personally believe that a perfect system lies somewhere in between these two ideas. Human nature is both competitive and cooperative, therefor an economic model must be created which allows for both to work together seemlessly.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

> You just proved the competitive nature of humans by presenting a competing view.

No. They cooperated to give us a view of both side of human nature.

Just like you and I just did....

Re:Whoohoo!

[AzureWraith]

I thought capitalism was completely based on the idea of letting things run their course, regardless of whether competition exists or not.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Udo Schmitz]

Capitalism is as much about cooperation as competition. Just look at how many people must cooperate to produce a computer chip.

Dunno, not as many people as must have cooperated to buil the pyramides I guess. So I think monarchy with slave labor must be a much better system than capitalism ...

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

First you have to understand that the system in which we live isn't capitalism anymore. And hasn't been for a long time. It's a neo-fascist corporate system that on the surface might appear a lot like capitalism, is actually quite opposite in most of the ways that are important. For instance, making better products or delivering better services at a better price is hardly the motivation of most business these days. And in far too many cases isn't even a viable business model.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should read some history before spouting off your drivel. Very little, if any, slave labor was used to build the pyramids. Google is your friend...it will even tell you that you misspelled "pyramides".

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly you thought wrong.

Re:Whoohoo!

[jwdb]

What a crock of sh*t!

Human nature, or, more accurately, mammalian nature, is a pack, consisting of one alpha male, ie the dictator, and a few men and women who listen to his every command. They all do what he tells them to, until one of them becomes strong enough to kick his @ss and become the new alpha male.

Capitalism is actually a very bad system - it breaks up the social group, encourages materialism and individualism, and turns everyone against eachother. It leads to stress, exhaustion, broken families, bankrupcy... why do you think they call it the rat race? In terms of survival of the species, capitalism is rather sh*tty, leading in the extreme case to an oligarchy based on money (everything's for sale).

The only reason we use it is because it is the lesser of two evils - the selfishness in human nature makes communism turn out even worse, as the power structure in a communistic society eventually becomes corrupt, bloated, and drains the life out of the 'peasant.' If we weren't selfish, communism would be ideal - too bad we are.

Capitalism perfect? Bah!

Jw

Re:Whoohoo!

[MrHanky]

I've got mod points, but as there is no 'stupid' moderation, I have to reply instead.

The problem with your argument is that it's based on metaphysics and ideology, and that you have a mythical understanding of history. History isn't a novel about 'human nature', it just unfolds, goes on, and for various reasons. Mostly economical. Human nature doesn't control the economy. If it did, why would Nike and others that produce cheap stuff from child labour be successful?

Re:Whoohoo!

[Dominatus]

Then in that case capitalism is cooperation not competition because both Nike and Reebok cooperate to give us shoes. Co(operate) to work with/together, not to work on the same basic thing or towards the same goal.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Cpt_Kirks]

Ah, but you miss the point. So called "human nature" is about survival. Survival = GREED.

Re:Whoohoo!

[JaxWeb]

Nice post. Wish I had Mod Points. I actually had them the other day but couldn't find anything to use them on. Doh'!

Re:Whoohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Capitalism is as much about cooperation as competition. Just look at how many people must cooperate to produce a computer chip.

Are you suggesting that any nation currently producing computer chips qualifies as capitalist?

America, Japan and Taiwan all have mixed economies. Obviously China is not capitalist either.

I think it's funny how so many people are getting on the soapbox about capitalism being proven as the best system, then pointing to the USA as evidence. Yes, there are capitalist microeconomies functioning in the US - but you could say the same of Soviet Russia. When discussing the "ism", we mean top-down capitalism, not the reverse. And that hasn't been seen in the Western world in about a century.

The conclusion I come to when I look at the latter-day capitalist (mixed) economies is that capitalism isn't sustainable.

Re:Whoohoo!

[mp3phish]

"We wouldn't even have ever made iron, for crying out loud. We'd still be living in caves and whatever else. "

Please. Iron is an element. We didn't make it. Maybe you are thinking of steel?

And we would have never gotten out of the caveman stoneage were it not for competition? Have you ever thought about how it takes COOPERATION to learn how to build houses and make fire and wheels?

Your ignorance is totally mind boggling. But capitalism is fine. Throwing microsoft's evil empire (TM) into the mix is just karma trolling.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Chris Daniel]

I refer you, oh Wise One, to this comment.
Read some other comments in this thread, too, before you go spouting about my ignorance, please.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Delphiki]

Speaking of there not being a stupid moderation.. Your comment easily ranks among the stupidest comments I have ever read on slashdot, and I've read a lot of stupid comments. You provide no reasoning. Is your intended reasoning that Nike wouldn't succede because human nature would prevent people from buying their products because of their business practices? I suppose that would be an accurate statement, assuming you conclusion was correct. Apart from the fact that your argument is circular, your conclusion is ludicrous. How could human nature not control the economy or how could it not be one of the largest deciding factors in human history? What does control these things then? Divine intervention? A great monkey overlord secretly controlling all of us? The illuminati? Posts like this make me wish someone would pass a law limiting who is allowed to state their opinion.

Re:Whoohoo!

[MrHanky]

I agree that I didn't argue very clearly, but the fact that you don't understand it doesn't make it stupid. My whole point was that his idea of history is mythical. I made that point clear. A myth is a story that explains something else, an ideology, through allegory. I didn't make that definition clear, although I should have. You can't read history like a bloody allegory. That was my whole problem, and that was my point.

My second argument was based on the assumption that the parent poster considered exploitation of poor children for fun & profit to be against human nature, but in the nature of economy, with the intention to show which one controls which. It's the economy that makes Nike produce shoes in poor countries, and it's the economy that makes poor people work for Nike. It's an illustration of the point, not the conclusion of an argument. There's no circular reasoning here. I'm just showing that economy gives a better explanation than "human nature" for why things like out-sourcing and exploitation happen. And you have probably heard about how economy is supposed to work. If not, look it up. You'll see that very few economic textbooks claim that an economy is controlled by "human nature".

You see, "human nature" doesn't explain anything. It's not even a real concept. And that was what it was all about, in the end.

Clearer now?

Re:Whoohoo!

[Delphiki]

I understood it perfectly well. And the fact that you put it into two paragraphs doesn't make it any less stupid.

Clearer, not really since you basically just elaborated on things it was easy to get out of your original post. Less stupid, no. Your whole first paragraph boils down to "You can't learn anything about the world from history." If you honestly believe that, then I'm surprised you're smart enough to have learned how to use words.

Your second paragraph is equally idiotic. Economic textbooks don't talk about how the economy is controlled by human nature, because it should be fucking assumed. The economy is not something that exists outside of humans. It is the way things work when a collection of humans interact to trade. Why do they trade, to meet their basic needs, improve their situation, get a new toy. That is human nature. Honestly, I think most people are kidding themselves if they think it is not human nature to try and exploit other people.

You see, "human nature" doesn't explain anything. It's not even a real concept. And that was what it was all about, in the end.

This almost makes me think your post is a troll, because even the biggest idiots trying sound educated would have a hard time coming up with something like that.

Re:Whoohoo!

[MrHanky]

"You can't learn anything about the world from history." Try again. That wasn't even implied. Or rather, let's end this discussion.

BTW, your comment about my second paragraph proves my final point: "Human nature" isn't a real concept. It can be anything and everything related to humans.

Re:Whoohoo!

[Delphiki]

I'm beginning to wonder if you're even capable of understanding the words you type, based on your claim that that's not implied.

And my comment does not prove anything related to your point, because what is not true, can not be proven. Human nature is a very real concept. Is it a very broad concept? Yes. But so are about a billion other concepts all of which are perfectly real.

Re:Wow!

[jbltk]

It's the same thing as when CNN Headline News runs a story about AOL, they say "Headline News is a subsidiary of AOL/Timewarner".

It's just to alleviate accusations of conflict of interest and be open about the fact that the story they're running is by a company they're related to.

Mod parent down

[Daetrin]

Are you incredibly ignorant or just a troll? (And is there a differnece?)

Disclaimers like that are pretty standard in the news industry when reporting on related companies. They can't really refuse to talk about anything relating to themselves, but doing so leaves them open to charges of biased reporting. The best they can do is admit up front that there is a relation so at least any potential bias is in the open rather than subversive.

Given how many trolls complain about Slashdot's affiliation with OSTG you'd think that most people would appreciate this.

Re:Mod parent down

[ModernGeek]

How long has it been OSTG, OSTG sounds stupid, I miss OSDN

I'll believe it when I see it on the shelf

[LupusUF]

My guess is it will be released with Duke Nukem Forever as it's first game...maybe even Team Fortress 2.

Robin Miller of Myst?

[Eric-tile Dysfunctio]

The Robin Miller that wrote this article, is he the same guy who made Myst and Riven?

Re:Robin Miller of Myst?

[ajutla]

That was Robyn Miller.

I see no problems at all..

[wfberg]

I mean, it's not like you could buy your own PC for a few hundred bucks and then just play games on that and keep hard copies too..

Running an operating system owned by the people who brought you the X-Box is a really great idea too, it's not like that's a company that's ever engaged in unfair competition..

They should have game publishers eating out of their hands, what with no one else having good contacts and exclusive deals with them (like say, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony).

It's a good thing they thought up this subscription/download deal, I've never heard of that before.. Let alone heard of any one failing miserably at it. (Or perhaps I have).

I don't think any other company ever tried entering the console market with basically a stripped-down PC. And if they did, they wouldn't have been forced to sell them at loss, right?

So, it's all good. I'm just wondering whether the console will support Duke Nukem Forever AND Daikatana..

Breaking into the market

[RogueyWon]

I just don't see the Phantom being able to break into the console market right now. This is not an easy market to be competative in. There are currently three big players... this is actually 1 more than the market has traditionally supported during past cycles and there are those who feel that one of the current big 3 will eventually fall by the wayside.

Look at how the big three got these: they either built their following decades ago and are still trading on the licenses (Nintendo), sunk vast amounts of money to ensure their break-in (Microsoft) or capitalised on a huge brand-name in consumer electronics and a truly inspired range of 3rd party developers (Sony). Infinium don't have any of these and I don't think they have it in their power to obtain any of them either. Nor do they have any kind of equivalent draw. Gamers are already wary of the online-content thing, after the well-publicised cock-ups surrounding steam and I can't actually name a single Phantom exclusive game, if indeed such a thing exists. If there's a future for the Phantom, it's as an extension of the kind of mini-games I can currently play through my Sky Television digibox, rather than as a dedicated games console.

Re:Breaking into the market

[Anonymous Coward]

And if they did, they'd need to include at least a few games predownloaded so people could buy it and play something without waiting.

Re:Breaking into the market

[Jacius]

I can't actually name a single Phantom exclusive game, if indeed such a thing exists.

I doubt anyone could name any game for Phantom, let alone a Phantom-exclusive, as they haven't even named developers who are working on games for it. I haven't even seen a photograph of the console, let alone screenshots of the games it can run.

I have very strong doubts that the Phantom console will even appear on the market at all, let alone sell more than a few thousand units (mostly to curious people with money to burn), especially as they seem to be big on claims and prices, and low on anything substantial or tangible.

In short, unless Infinium comes up with a SUPER-killer game, there will be no reason for anyone to spend $300-400 (plus money for games and further subscription) on a console when they probably have on Xbox or Gamecube or PS2 -- consoles that actually have *games*, not just claims -- sitting in their home already.

In case no one else has said it...

[jmcmunn]

...but does it run linux?

Maybe I can get one of these for my son for christmas. Of course I mean my unborn son, and the christmas of 2008.

Re:In case no one else has said it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Christmas 2008?

Oh yeah. 4.5-year-old crippled PC with no serious upgrade potential. PS3 and friends will be well into their mid-life stage by then.

Yes, it'll be worth buying... for $10-20 from a junkstore.

This isn't even going to inspire the affection that a console would; it's generic cut-down PC hardware that probably *will* run Linux at some stage, but no-one will find it useful in the way that a 5 year old PC might be.

Re:In case no one else has said it...

[jmcmunn]

Yeah, i figure it should be out on shelves by 2008.

Business plan summary

[Tx]

*Target market: people who have already grown out of games, and their wives! OK, so the kids might actually be vaguely interested.

*Subscription: $30/month for crap games, anything worth paying will be extra.

*Console cost: Free with 2 year sub, $??? with a 1 year sub.

Somehow I can't see this working. With your PC or conventional console, $30/month will get you a new game, or a couple of used/budget titles, which you get to keep for ever if you like, or you can trade them in/sell them. Plus you can rent a good few games for that money, without a monthly commitment.

If the $30/month actually gets you access to a constantly expanding list of decent games, or the premium games have a suitably small one-off fee (rather than pay per play, or limited time payment) then they might just pull it off. I'm not holding my breath though, I guess we'll see when they eventually list some publishers.

Re:Business plan summary

[parryr]

Exactly.

Look at it this way. Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony are wrapping their consoles in hundred dollar bills and firing them into the street to get consumers to scoop them up. They have all the plug and play you need, current games that look good and just work. Add onto that a Gamefly (http://www.gamefly.com/) account with a similar monthly fee, and you get all the games you want, couriered to your door, included in the content fee.

I think companies like Speakeasy have free Xboxes when you subscribe for a year of DSL too. I can't find the link I had on this before, but even if you had to lay down USD$149 for an Xbox, it wouldn't make you cry would it?

So if you shop around, you can get more variety, for less, with current technology that exists on the market today. I have to wonder, exactly whom this is aimed at? I wouldn't touch it - I've already got a PC thanks, and an Xbox, PS/2, and GCN. Exclusives push consoles over other consoles - if this one is just competing against the PC, or products like the ApeXtreme (http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/proddetail.asp?cate gory=ApeXtreme&subcat=&linenumber=76&c =4) or AlienWare DHD line (http://www.alienware.com/intro_Pages/dhd.aspx) I'd say it's got a painful, expensive, and short future.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Obligatory Penny Arcade

[Anonymous Coward]

Those who read Penny Arcade should be quite familiar with this company...

Dude, Whoa
Stop Pretending You're A Real Company

Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft, Infinium, ...

It just amazing how the same dumb idea JUST WON'T DIE.

"Hey, let's take a stripped down commodity x86 machine, put it in a big ugly consolish box and add ports for controllers and television! And all the little game playing kiddies can play Quake/Starcraft/... in their living rooms! We're gonna be rich!"

Bzzzt!!!

Maybe I've been in the console biz for too long, but it just doesn't seem possible that people/companies can be so braindead to keep trying this over and over.

The peecee game market is a tiny and shrinking market. The vast,vast majority of the gaming consumer market doesn't give a damn about anything released for the peecee outside of The Sims and EQ.

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Mudcathi]

The peecee game market is a tiny and shrinking market. The vast,vast majority of the gaming consumer market doesn't give a damn about anything released for the peecee outside of The Sims and EQ.

Where do you get your information? The only market study I've found on this topic indicates that, as of Nov 2003, console games had 65% marketshare vs 35% for peecee -- but that hardly constitutes what you deem "a tiny and shrinking market" -- especially in a multi-billion dollar industry.

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where those numbers come from.

The console market is around ten billion a year in revenue vs. about a billion for the home computer market.

Just look at the trend lines over the past five years to see what is wrong with market for home computer games.

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, but isn't that what people probably thought about commodity PC hardware when the likes of IBM were building proprietary systems? People don't care what's inside the box, they just care that they can play the games they want. Slamming systems based on their architecture makes no sense.

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether or not your post is true, it has nothing to do with the console market.

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[wantedman]

How many of those 35% are simply console ports? Although the PC market isn't small, it's often viewed as a place to dump ports of console games, rather than a place to develop for.

Excluding FPS.

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Anonymous Coward]

and mmorpgs, and rts games, and a couple of other genres too...

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[fozzmeister]

and vice versa

Re:Same Dumb Idea, Over And Over Again

[Anonymous Coward]

So tell me... how does Doom 3 look at 640 by 480 on the Xbox, hmm?

Get a life. The PC and console markets are both viable, and you're not impressing anyone by trying to dis the opposition. As long as new PCs are insanely powerful, old PCs are kept cheap by Moore's law and geeks everywhere feel the need to own a powerful multi-purpose platform, there will be a PC game market. And as long as consoles are cheap, widely marketed and straightforward, there will be a console market. Neither can kill the other as long as they're mutually exclusive (and all the phantom proves that consoles are nowhere near able to do the job of a PC - check back in a year and you'll see that I was right).

RsG

AM I TOO LATE

[vanillacoke]

No.

Re:AM I TOO LATE

[Rirath.com]

Indeed. There hardly seems the need for a long debate on this one.

one thing

[blackomegax]

all i'm interestest in, is that the phantom seems to be a lightly modified PC with a geforce 5700 in it. it'll be 2 days before someone hacks it to run windows and you have a cheap 300 dollar PC on your hands.

Re:one thing

[Mudcathi]

it'll be 2 days before someone hacks it to run windows and you have a cheap 300 dollar PC on your hands.

Why? You can buy a cheap 300 dollar PC right now from Wal-Mart that runs windows straight out of the box.

(Next, I suppose someone will say that they can make a beowulf cluster of hacked 300 dollar windows-running consoles. I don't care! Stop it!)

Re:one thing

[haRDon]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of hacked Phantoms

(Sorry, had to do it :)

Re:one thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Why use $300 PCs? You can buy two Xboxes for the same $300. At some point, Microsoft will be blowing them out for $100. Yay, three Xboxes for the price of one Walmart PC.

FOUND IT

[MBCook]

OK, found a link. It wasn't "SegaTV", it was "The Sega Channel".

Check it out: The Sega Channel.

It ran from '94 to '98.

Re:FOUND IT

[CoolMoDee]

Yep, the Segal Channel was AWESOME. I went to a contest at some school and won 20 years of it free. It hooked up via a cable going into a special cartirdge and was most excellent. As I recall, it had 50 games each month, some of which were there last month, 3 or 4 of which were full timed demo of games that weren't out yet. Nothing like leaving your Sega on for 3 days so you could be a game...

I talked to them at E3

[Groo Wanderer]

I have been following this company from the initial reports that they are a scam to the lawsuit to E3. I sat down with their head rep at E3 and had a long chat with them.

My short take is a low-end PC with a pay-per play rental model for old games. Yee-friggin haw, sign me up. There was nothing there that I couln't do myself with only spending a little money on a plastics prototype shop and a flash interface for the UI. Oh yeah, an auto body shop for a spiffy paint job also.

Then there is the more troubling aspect. They sued Kyle/HOCP for a negative report. From my perspective, it looks like they picked a fight for no reason. The story on HOCP was 6 months old and pretty much forgotten. If they had come up with a prototype and sent it to Kyle and said 'see, we are real, print a retraction please', I would bet good money that Kyle would have done so.

No, these morons, and I use the term with no disrepect meant toward anyone who is a clinical moron, sued HOCP. There is nothing in my mind that cemented the fact that they are indeed a scam with a lot to cover up than this fact.

Then it gets better. Read the letters that their lawyers sent Kyle, they are laughable. They are typo ridden, somewhat contradictory, and leave you with the distinct impression that the Infinium legal squad is a bunch of chucklefscks. Go read Kyles account of it, and the legalish stuff he was sent. Then go check out www.whereisphantom.com for a more up to date list.

I think the lawsuit will obliterate them, not that they were real to begin with, they are acting WAY to much like they have a mass grave full of skeletons, and the Iraqi WMDs to hide.

So, moving right along, back to E3. I write for The Inquirer, and I went to the Infinium booth at E3. I told them my concerns, and as a writer I told them I would never write something objective about them, IE no coverage for anything but news about the lawsuit, until they dropped the lawsuit AND apologized to Kyle.

Why? Simple, they sued Kyle for in my opinion, a well researched, fair article about their state of being. Imagine you get a review copy, could you be honest under those circumstances? If they sue for negative reviews, how can you be sure any review is even close to honest? Think about that as a chilling effect.

No, the short answer is Infinium by its actions and inactions appears to be a scam. I said roughly the same thing about CDs when the RIAA launched the Napster suit, no purchases until it is resolved. If it is resolved in the favor of Napster, I would buy again. If it isn't, no more music sales. I have not missed the music I no longer buy. The other analogy is SCO, would you buy a copy of Openserver knowing they sue their clients? Same with Infinium. Drop the suit guys, and backpedal hard, or you get no lovin from me.

Sadly, I don't think you will live long enough to ever make a purchasable product, the HOCP article says most of what I need to know, and your confirmation of it's accuracy with your actions tells the rest. Stick a fork in Infinium, they are done.

-Charlie

Re:I talked to them at E3

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I had considered it a scam before I read the Hard article.

Given that it is mostly just a PC, why has it taken two years to develop? Commodity parts exist for easy prototyping and development. Why did they not have working units at past E3s and other conventions? Sure, there was a small press and investor party afterwards, but I had seen no actual articles about it, and had seen pictures that for all I know, could have been staged. Infinium gets a few small articles for being at trade shows, but so far, absolutely no play impressions. For something based on commodity parts that can be slapped together and software installed with reckless abandon to make a simple demonstration, they are trying to make themselves look stupid.

I view these guys with the same great skepticism as I view Moeler and his sky car.

Re:I talked to them at E3

[whoever57]

One should be rather suspicious about them after looking at their finacials -- they spent relatively nothing on R&D. I think they spent more on their website than on console h/w and s/w development.

It's hard to see how you build a defensible business with almost no R&D! Not impossible: I think if one can develop a brand name or community that can provide an advantage, but I don't see either of these from Phantom.

Re:I talked to them at E3

[Ayaress]

My personal belief as to why they haven't had a working product is content. They say they have 33,000 titles lined up and so forth, and that it's all download-on-demand, when you want to play it. However, whenever they talk about specific games, it's either:

A. Very old games you'd find on an abandonware site (the launch title list they "released" for about an hour earlier this year)
B. An upcomming title that a quick email to the developer of reveals is NOT being developed for the Phantom (Starcraft Ghost is the one that comes to mind first, but I remember others have graced the Phantom website).

33,000 games, but nobody's developing for it? Frankly, it sounds like suprnova.org to me, just a bit. It won't suprise me in the least if the thing is a hard-wired bittorrent client or something like it, and I'm going to either laugh or cry if users end up the ones getting sued for software piracy. Whichever one I do, I'll be doing it very hard.

Re:I talked to them at E3

[mrchaotica]

I'm a lot less skeptical about the sky car; at least it can't be built with commodity parts and requires some innovation!

Crippleware

[Nebulaeus]

Online subscriptions to content you don't own are such a "great" idea. A DRM crippled PC/game console will be ever so useful when this "company" goes belly up and you don't own any of the bits stored inside.

At least with X-Box the CD's would continue to work even if Microsoft decided to pull the plug on their X-Box division.

I'll pass.

Re:Crippleware

[Glendale2x]

Online subscriptions to content you don't own are such a "great" idea. A DRM crippled PC/game console will be ever so useful when this "company" goes belly up and you don't own any of the bits stored inside.

Anyone remember DIVX? (Not to be confused with DivX.) Kind of the same thing, except targeting the DVD market. Supposedly "better" than DVD. Thankfully, it failed the miserable death it deserved, but not before parting idiots with their money.

Infinium's True Business Plan

[rudy_wayne]

Infinium has shown off some prototypes, but they are meaningless. Anybody can throw together some off-the-shelf parts and put them in a fancy looking case.

And if you look at these protoypes, it's obvious that they were put together by people who have no clue how computer's actually work. For example, in addition to a standard Ethernet connector, there's a coax connector labelled "Cable Modem" and an RJ45 connector labelled "DSL". WTF?

Infinium's *TRUE* business plan is to try for one these scenarios:

1. Attract investors.
Find suckers who will pump millions into the company. The Phantom console goes into production and a year later the company folds because it's a stupid unworkable idea. The company's top executives walk away with lots of money, having paid themsleves huge slaries during the company's short lifetime.

2. Get bought by someone else.
Create enough buzz and hype that some other company buys them. This is the more attractive option since Infinium's top executives get to walk away with a butt-load of cash without having to actually do anything.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[geekoid]

"For example, in addition to a standard Ethernet connector, there's a coax connector labelled "Cable Modem" and an RJ45 connector labelled "DSL". WTF?"

I'm guesing that it will be able to talk through your netword, as well as directly to your DSL or Cable company. Maybe the ethernet is the 'out' and the modem is built in?

Do you think companies get bought without the buying company looking at the product?

IF ewither scenerio 1 or 2 works, I'd lkike toi find out where they got investors, cause I got this cutting edge, paradigm shifting, industry catapulting device I want to talk to them about.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[gl4ss]

*there's a coax connector labelled "Cable Modem" and an RJ45 connector labelled "DSL". WTF?*

well, to the cable modem labeled you would attach... surprise surprise: the tv cable...

and to the dsl jack.. the dsl (rj45) cable.

so it would have a cable modem and a dsl modem built in, what's so surprising about that? that's the least faulty thing in their business plan.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[jjhlk]

Would you be surprised to learn that even Zero-Point Energy schemes get investors?

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[rudy_wayne]

>>"Do you think companies get bought without the buying company looking at the product?"

Yes.

Several years ago, when DSL and Cable internet access were not yet available, a guy claimed he had created a device that would transfer data at very high speed over ordinary phone lines. Needless to say, people were interested.

He never let anyone examine the device closely and was extremely vague in his descriptions of how it worked. Engineers who listened to his description of how the device worked said he was spouting gibberish. And yet he was able to take in millions of dollars from investors based solely on demonstrations he gave.

As he took money from investors, there were **10 different occasions** where he was supposed to deliver a working prototype and failed to do so -- each time claiming that the device was destroyed after being struck by lightning.

Google for "Madison Priest"

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they could just make ethernet standard and let people connect whatever broadband device that would normally come with service anyway. Unless Infinium is going to become a reseller ISP as well. In which case maybe they might wanna make these 3 devices modular and save some money.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[psetzer]

That's a DSL modem and a Cable modem built in. In only the most perverse situations will someone have all three ports used. More likely, they're just going to sit there, unused, and costing someone at least $20 a piece. In any case it's stupid, and as the article notes, the console will be expensive enough in design that an extra $40-$50 dollars is really going to hurt their bottom line. If they sell a million 2-year subscriptions, then they'll pull in $720 million dollars. However, with this, we're looking at $40 million dollars just on parts that almost nobody's going to use. Howabout just taking those out and mailing me half of the money? It'll do ya about as much good.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[Torham]

DSL uses the phone line, so it would be a RJ11, how is a RJ45 connector labeled DSL different from the ethernet connection?

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[Anonymous Coward]

I had DSL that was delivered over a separate RJ45 (RJ48?) jack than my phone line.

Not every DSL provider is exactly the same, and an RJ45 jack would cover both kinds of installations.

Nice try, thanks for playing.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[hetfield]

and to the dsl jack.. the dsl (rj45) cable.

Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods, but in my house, DSL is on an RJ11 jack. The DSL modem then connects to my router via ethernet/RJ45.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[gl4ss]

not always as has been pointed out.

and you can stick a rj11 connector into a rj45 jack...

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[dourk]

Since it's got a coax connector for the built in cable modem, shouldn't it have an rj11 connector for the built in dsl modem? The rj45 is for the network side of the modem, not the phone line side.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[gl4ss]

as been already pointed out some locations use rj45 shaped jack/cable for the dsl.

as well as does isdn over here.

Re:Infinium's True Business Plan

[AndroidCat]

Ah yes. Two arrested in large marijuana-growing operation (Click for 56k | High-Speed | Faked Demo)

Ready in MARCH!?!?

[severoon]

Darnit! I was all set to run out and by DDR today instead of getting a gym membership...now I have to sit on the couch and eat potato chips until March!

F- That

[Lord Kano]

I'm still holding out for the Indrema linux based console!

Just kidding.

LK

Socialism is pain for the producers

[Chris Daniel]

True. But what I'm talking about here is the hopelessness of forever working for everyone else and getting nothing out of it but the never-delivered promise of utopia.

Re:Socialism is pain for the producers

[wavedeform]

Tell it to anyone working hard for minimum wage in this country. I'm sure that they will be sympathetic to your ideas.

Re:Socialism is pain for the producers

[Chris Daniel]

"Tell it to anyone working hard for minimum wage in this country. I'm sure that they will be sympathetic to your ideas."

I hope they will -- capitalism is the very system that allows them to work for their wages, and even to make more if they prove their ability to earn that extra. Capitalism is what has made America great.

Re:Socialism is pain for the producers

[Cpt_Kirks]

There are basically two types of people who work for minimum wage.

The first are entry level people. High school and college kids, who need some cash. Most eventually move on to better paying job. Illegal aliens mostly belong to this group. If they manage to get a green card and work hard aquiring skills, they do move up.

The other type are people who just don't give a shit. You know, the thirty-something who slings fries because they don't have the drive to do any better.

Other than immigrants, legal or otherwise, hardly anybody making minimum wage is "working hard"...

What they need to do....

[rubberbando]

What they need to do is get is to add PVR capabilities and perhaps some internet surfing capabilities to this thing and then get into bed with some of the large cable or satelite companies. Heck, I'd be tempted to sign up if the cable box recorded my shows and gave me a ton of games to play for one low price. I'm surprised that this hasn't been done yet. This would be great for those people who want to play the games and/or surf the net without having to buy and configure a PC. It would be great for my grandparents who could keep in touch and play bridge with their friends in Florida.

In a word, no.

[identity0]

I have a Dreamcast and a GameCube - those are really great consoles pushed by veterans in the industry, and they both ended up as also-rans. Sega even ended up getting out of the hardware business altogether. To succeed in this industry, you need a very good hype campaign, good games, and lots of developers, as well as good hardware. Everything I've seen of Infinium so far says that they're a novice company with no marketing skills whatsoever.

The fact that Infinium is trying to change the business model of consoles a bit is interesting, but that's going to be a liability rather than an asset to them. Their attempt to turn games into a subscription-based model does not seem particularly compelling - anyone can go to a store and get a game, and no one I know is complaining about having to get physical media to play games. Besides, their plan - to sell $500 consoles and have a subsciption plan of $30/month - sounds like it'd work better for obsessive gamers, not "former gameers who have a family" like they say.

If they're going to launch a subscrription games service and they're going to be just making even on the console itself, why not just have a subscription service for regular PCs? That would cut out the cost of the hardware, since the user has already paid for it - why are they so intent on pushing hardware? Is there some special DRM thing in the Phantom?

And another thing - what happends when they go out of business? I can still play my Dreamcast, and even get more used games for it. Will I be able to play the "Phantom" for years afterwards, or will they cut off the supply of games when they go bankrupt or if "Phantom 2" comes out? I don't think many consumers will want to be tied to a company like that - remember the DiVX debacle.

In short, Infinium has a interesting but flawed business model, their hardware business is questionable, and they don't have enough of a good reputation with gamers to be able to pull this off. I think they will be remembered as another 3DO or CD-i, not the PlayStation killer.

Re:In a word, no.

[feidaykin]

Dude, you totally could have posted "In a word, no." without explanation. Then you'd have gotten +5 funny instead. I suppose that's a bad thing without the karma bonus though.

It was my intention to simply post, "No." but I'm too late for that. ;)

Re:In a word, no.

[toriver]

If they're going to launch a subscrription games service and they're going to be just making even on the console itself, why not just have a subscription service for regular PCs?

Already exists, if you are willing to sort between the drek to find the few titles that are actually fun, and willing to use Internet Explorer.

Can I install Linux on it?

[noktuo]

It is basically a PC and comes with Windows XP embedded, so I think install Linux will not be a problem, rigth?

Re:Can I install Linux on it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Install it on what? Embedded means it doesn't boot the so-called OS from a hard drive. This thing is basically what the xbox already is(a off the self PC with an ugly box, not running an os suited for games) and what it will become(forced subscription based service). After all, isn't this where microsoft is heading? Toward a subscription based service for ALL of their product lines?

Hopelessness of forever working for everyone else

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahahahaha. Capitalism is already LIKE THIS!!

In a word, maybe.

[geekoid]

" Besides, their plan - to sell $500 consoles and have a subsciption plan of $30/month - sounds like it'd work better for obsessive gamers, not "former gameers who have a family" like they say"

I don't know, a casual gamer, with 2 kids who are bamers could save a lot of money.

If they could create a all-in-one device that can play mainstream games, thye could build in a DRM feature that would could be leverage for the game industry. Something that could charge the game companies for.
With that, they would have income from both sides, which might be very profitable.

Very TiVo like business model.

I don't have a lot of hope, but we will see.

Re:In a word, maybe.

[lpp]

The console price isn't the problem; rather, I think, it's the subscription model.

I'm an infrequent gamer. More particularly, I am the "former gamer who has a family" which they are supposedly targetting. They have missed me by a country mile.

Subscription models increase in value to the consumer when the consumer uses them more. For a fixed price per month, if I'm gaming a lot, I'm getting more game per dollar. If I only game a little, (and some months not gaming at all) I'm throwing away cash.

From their perspective, of course they want to charge a subscription and hook folks in who use little of the service. They make money for baby sitting idle game servers.

In fact, assuming this catches on at all, gamers who are money savvy and yet who feel compelled to buy this will end up using the hell out of the service, whereas folks like me will avoid it because we don't want to subscribe to something we will use so little of. As a result, what subscriptions they do sell will be of the sort to download a lot of games and thus will be unlikely to cover bandwidth and server maintenance fees on top of personnel expenses.

Re:In a word, maybe.

[Bastian]

I think they just totally failed to do any market research whatsoever, or even thought of it.

I am apparently right in their target market, and here's how the economics work out for me:

I only game a little, which means I don't play games out very quickly, which means that I don't buy them very often. Maybe one every three months. On top of that, since I don't buy often, I have no problem waiting a few months for the good ones to be sold to used game stores by the hardcore gamers for $15-20 a pop rather than $40+. So, not counting the initial cost of the game system, I pay between $60 and $120 a year to be a gamer. I really have no idea which end of the range I'm closer to, so let's average it and say $90 per year.

Infinium is offering me the chance to be a gamer for four times the price, and they think that I'm supposed to do anything but laugh at the proposal?

And the console price is a damn cherry on top. I tell you, I'm just champing at the bit to spend twice as much so I have the chance to spend four times on the same product!

Yeah. I'd pay maybe half that if their system could make me have repeated orgasms while I played it. For the price they are asking, it'd have to clean up the mess, too.

Re:Hopelessness of forever working for everyone el

[Chris Daniel]

How? The whole point of capitalism is to make better products than one's competitors in order to make a profit for oneself. If you can prove how that's working for everyone else and not oneself I'll worship you and reject capitalism :-P

Answer...

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

No.

If Only It Where "Competition"

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Than clearly you have not looked into the history of Infinium and it's "Phantom Game Console". This company is basically a pipe dream at best and a out-and-out fraud is more realistic. Besides, it's basically a PC in a fancy box, except you can't do word processing on it.

Re:If Only It Where "Competition"

[mrchaotica]

How is that different from the Xbox?

Re:If Only It Where "Competition"

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

How is that different from the Xbox?

the X box has specialized chips for video and game processing. The Phantom is just a suped up PC. Nothing to see,please move along.

Re:If Only It Where "Competition"

[Anonymous Coward]

the X box has specialized chips for video and game processing

How are the Pentium 3/Celeron hybrid "XCPU" and the NV2A "XGPU" (NV20 with two instead of one VS units) chips "specialised"? Custom built for Xbox, sure, but feature-wise they are just stripped down PC parts (by today's standards), and were direct derivatives from PC tech. What chips are you referring to? The Nvidia northbridge with Soundstorm? :)

Re:If Only It Where "Competition"

[chaoticset]

Last I checked, the Phantom lacks a digital media drive of some form (CD/DVD). This is precisely why PA referred to it as "a broken computer".

Re:If Only It Where "Competition"

[RealErmine]

This company is basically a pipe dream at best and a out-and-out fraud is more realistic. Besides, it's basically a PC in a fancy box, except you can't do word processing on it.

While I am doubtful that this product will be a success, it did have a surprisingly good showing at this year's E3. Infinium obviously spent big bucks on their booth and there were a lot of people there to check it out. Seems too much high-profile effort for fraud. The unit was even available to play Unreal Tournament 2004 on (although the woman answering questions said she was told not to touch it. This seemed to imply that the prototype was delicate.)

The keyboard and mouse comfiguration was interesting and seemed like they put a lot of thought into using these devices from a couch. The keyboard swiveled and tilted at an angle to reveal a mousing surface below.

Feel free to browse the pictures that I took, especially this one and this one.

Re:If Only It Where "Competition"

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

So you work for the sham-miesters who make Infinium? How much do they pay you, or do you do it just to give blow jobs to the "CEO"?

That's not the real business plan.

[khasim]

That's just what they publish.

The real business plan is:
#1. Find people with lots of money who want to make more money but don't understand technology/games and are unwilling to do the basic research.

#2. Sell these people a line of crap.

#3. Live large on the "investments" these people are making in your company.

#4. Try for an IPO and cash out "Dot.Com"-style.

Really, anyone who would put any money into another gaming console right now needs his/her head examined.

It's been said, many times, many ways...

[Anita Coney]

No

Re:What's with the OSTG pimpage?

[Zooka]

It's not "pimpage". Its being up-front about the fact that the news source used in the story is somehow affiliated with Slashdot. By 'not hiding' that fact, they hope it helps to quell possible accusations of bias or other improprieties.

Mod up please

[benzapp]

This is a great comment, it is unfortunate it was moderated down.

Re:Mod up please

[Anonymous Coward]

s/unfortunate/appropriate/

silly...

[soimless]

silly boy tricks are for kids not Phantoms

Re:wait a sec

[88NoSoup4U88]

" can figments of my imagination compete?"

Shityeah! : In -your- world HL2 is allready released ! Wow :D

Tech Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Infinium website:

Phantom(TM) Game Receiver

* AMD® Athlon(TM) XP 2500+ central processing unit (CPU)
* NVIDIA® GeForce(TM) FX 5700 Ultra graphics processing unit (GPU)
* NVIDIA nForce(TM)2 Ultra 400 platform processor
* 256 MB RAM
* 40 GB local content cache
* Microsoft Windows XP® Embedded Operating System
* Dynamic, personalized user interfaces customizable for age, gender or technical expertise
* Lapboard, mouse and game pad included

* HDTV and Dolby® Digital 5.1 compatible
* Works with any consumer-standard broadband Internet Service Provider (ISP): DSL or faster

Which would certianly explain why it has "more than 33,000 games are already available".

However, isn't the minimum specs for Doom3 384MB of RAM?

Re:Tech Specs

[castlec]

well, xp embedded must have a smaller footprint than xp (hence the name). if the kernel doesn't have extra crap tacked in, i would bet it would be possible.

Answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Can Infinium Compete In The Game Console Market?

No.

Re:Hopelessness of forever working for everyone el

[Worminater]

its not that it works for everyone else, but not oneself, its that if you make a better product, the masses whom you are not directly competing with profit, as wellas yourself. As long as you are not in direct competion with the majority of the masses, when you make a better product and profit, so does those whom you are not competing with.

Re:Used it once

[Bastian]

My cousin had The Sega Channel during the last year it existed. It was pretty cool - basically an older version of cable modem technology, which meant the tiny little cartridge games downloaded lightning fast.

The product was probably doomed to failure from the get-go, though. It depends on your cable TV network having two-way repeaters. This was long before there was a widespread demand for cable services that need two-way repeaters, so they weren't too common at the time.

As a side note, the Sega Channel wasn't the first attempt at something like this. The first was the Intellivision's PlayCable system, which ran from 1980 until 1983.

Casual gamers don't pay a subscription

[Kris_J]

As a casual/lapsed gamer, the last thing I'm going to do is commit to $X per month when there's a good chance I won't play a single game in that time. So, what's their market again?

More to the point....

[grolschie]

...imagine a beofulf cluster of these!

Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[rfc1394]

Let's see:

1. Specs of machine inadequate to play DOOM 3 which means it's not even a reasonably high enough grade machine.
2. No CD or DVD drive means you can't play other games on it and also means its limited to finite capacity (internal disk space) meaning eventually some games you paid for have to be be erased to fit new ones on it. If those become unavailable you're out of luck.
3. System design makes it essentially useless for any other purpose except playing games (you can use a Nintendo 64 as an expensive DVD Player out of the box as well as a game machine, and you can with an XBOX if you buy a remote for it).
4. Company believes its system is unhackable which means they are in for a shock when people figure a way to hack it.
5. System runs off of a modified version of Windows XP, which not only means they're paying a fortune for licensing fees, and their supplier is one of their competitors, it also means it's vulnerable to all of the typical problems of a common PC.
6. Service charge is a whopping $29.95 a month, not including premium games, which are an extra charge.
7. Can only play games bought for a machine on that machine, you can't take the game someplace else, like you can with a Nintendo or XBox
8. If you stop your subscription the games no longer work and all of them that you 'bought' go bye-bye
9. If the company goes out of business, all the games you 'bought' will no longer work and all of them go bye-bye
10. I think if you don't have an Internet connection you can't use the machine at all.
11. (This one is from personal knowledge, not the article) A system like this called 'The Game Channel', which I think was from Sega, tried this a few years ago over Cable, for $9.95 a month. It went bust
12. If they get less than 200,000 subscribers they will be losing money and probably go under, fast; if they get more they will be deeply in debt, and based on the numbers, there is exactly $0 available to pay back that debt after deducting costs.
13. Competitors not giving away hardware can undercut them on price, operate a system much cheaper and will make a profit.
14. System depends upon access to broadband (access via dial-up would be agonizingly slow and probably unusable) which means the customer is going to have problems with others if the other people's uses (net phone, downloading, telecommuting) mean there isn't enough bandwidth available.

In short, there are so many advantages to this system I can't see how it can possibly succeed^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h fail!

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[TheLoneDanger]

you can use a Nintendo 64 as an expensive DVD Player out of the box as well as a game machine

I am guessing you meant Playstation 2? Just a bit of nitpicking...

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[Anonymous Coward]

you can use a Nintendo 64 as an expensive DVD Player out of the box as well as a game machine

Where exactly do you plug the dvd into the N64....

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[n17ikh]

Silly AC, you plug it into the the 64 Disc Drive add-on device. Oh wait, those never made it out of Japan, where they had a whopping one game published for them after many months of development... Sound familiar?

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[oberondarksoul]

The N64DD used proprietary discs, not DVDs or even CDs. There were also more games than just one - for example, an expansion for F-Zero, Sim City 2000, and 'Ura Zelda' - what we know of as the Master Quest.

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[n17ikh]

Yeah, I figured it used proprietary discs, but I was attempting to make a (bad) joke about promised hardware that was put off for endless months. ;) I could swear though that it only came out with one game, called Doshin the Giant, a game much like today's Black and White, IIRC. Maybe it was such a miserable failure they just stopped reporting on it over here?

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[oberondarksoul]

Oddly enough, Doshin the Giant was ported to the GameCube (at least it was in the UK - maybe Nintendo's being nice and giving us a PAL-only release? That'll be the day). Still, you're correct in it being a failure - it was delayed by a good two years, had virtually no games, and didn't fare at all well upon its eventual release. Like the Virtual Boy before it, Nintendo are determined to sweep it under the carpet...

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[Anonymous Coward]

> System runs off of a modified version
> of Windows XP [...] and their supplier
> is one of their competitors

I heard Sony provided parts for the Dreamcast's GD drive...

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[Schnapple]

A system like this called 'The Game Channel', which I think was from Sega, tried this a few years ago over Cable, for $9.95 a month. It went bust

In all fairness, the service ran for four years (1994-1998). It was likely discontinued since the target system, the Genesis, was more or less defunct and the concept at the time wouldn't really scale to Saturn or Dreamcast proportions. Some argue it still won't (i.e., most of this thread).

Re:Here's Why Infinium will succeed

[rfc1394]

you can use a Nintendo 64 as an expensive DVD Player out of the box as well as a game machine

I am guessing you meant Playstation 2? Just a bit of nitpicking

You're not really nitpicking. My apologies, you are absolutely correct, it is the Playstation 2 that can play DVDs, not N64. But the point is still made, there are at least two other game consoles which effectively cost less and do more.

One Word:

[eidechse]

Amiga

I fail it!

[grolschie]

hah! typo! my bad... I sure use the preview feature! I fail it!

Re:What's with the OSTG pimpage?

[rfc1394]

It's not "pimpage". Its being up-front about the fact that the news source used in the story is somehow affiliated with Slashdot. By 'not hiding' that fact, they hope it helps to quell possible accusations of bias or other improprieties.

You are exactly correct. Any professional - or at least semi-professional - journalistic operation gives in their articles a reference to any facts that may give an implication of bias in that story, even if there is no bias. For example, whenever MSNBC does an article on their Website about Microsoft, good or bad, they - correctly in my opinion - state upfront that Microsoft is a partner in the operation of the network.

DiVX all over again

[rfc1394]

And another thing - what happends when they go out of business? I can still play my Dreamcast, and even get more used games for it. Will I be able to play the "Phantom" for years afterwards, or will they cut off the supply of games when they go bankrupt or if "Phantom 2" comes out? I don't think many consumers will want to be tied to a company like that - remember the DiVX debacle.

I had forgotten that; thank you. You have it exactly right; this is DiVX all over again. (And not the one that is popular for ripping DVDs either!) And it will end up the same way as the original DiVX; part of the dustbin of history.

very high bandwidth

[sirshannon]

1MB is NOT very high bandwidth. The slowest broadband in my area was over 1MB in 1999. My current cable modem gives me 2.5MB on an average day, 3MB on a good day.

Re:very high bandwidth

[xsupergr0verx]

Maybe he meant actual download speeds of 1MB/s, which I have seen on my home connection as well.

Re:very high bandwidth

[sirshannon]

And I meant actual download speeds of 2.5MB or better which I see every time I download from sites equipped/kind enough to pump out at that rate.

Cooperation

[Chris Daniel]

"Capitalism is as much about cooperation as competition. Just look at how many people must cooperate to produce a computer chip."

Right, those people are cooperating -- but because it's in their nature? It's in their nature to want to make money, and they are being paid. It's cooperation, yes, but not selfless cooperation. Someone with a higher goal is employing those chip designers and packagers in order to make money. The expectation of selfless cooperation from everyone is socialism's single flaw.

Re:Cooperation

[Anonymous Coward]

The expectation of selfless cooperation from everyone is socialism's single flaw.

And the brutal enforcement of it is the other. Remember, the second "S" in USSR stood for "Socialist".

Re:F-This!

[Anonymous Coward]

Surprise!!!

Additional redundancy.

[Atragon]

Well, it could be useful...except for the fact that almost all DSL and Cable ISPs include the modem in the monthly cost of the service, or allow you to rent one for a nominal fee.

Hey, where's the...

[Atragon]

Video card by BitBoys Glaze3D video card? It's supposed to be manufactured by Infineon Technologies AG after all...

Source.

Socialist ideas is not immune to change

[blahplusplus]

Give me a break socialism never promised utopia. Only certain theorists thought this way. It remains yet to be demonstrated that utopia means that the machines and technology we invent and automation can do all the work we can do but better while everyone eats, sleeps, and does anything they want to due to the abundance of resources.

They promised an end to the gross inequality that exists under the current system. Socialism and capitalism are not fixed ideas either, einstein himself agreed that only parts of the economy should be socialized, while we continue to work and find the best systems for other parts of it. Other countries have proven socialist ideas work in many areas of government and the economy, its finding the best solutions that end poverty, war and oppression that are difficult while trying to prevent humans from over consuming or taking resources away from another group.

You must be blind to the invasions and wars that are a direct result of the higher standard of living in the rich countries *companies want to keep other nations poor so the cost of living in our home countries and standard of living goes up* this is the way capitalism truly works on a global scale.

Just wait until big business and government orchestrate a glut of educated people who can be payed much less then you and you can't afford to pay back the loans you took out for school in your home country, all in the name of capitalism. It's not capitalism thats evil per se its that the entire economic system cannot be capitalistic, we must find the best system for each segment that prevents destruction of the environment, wars, overpopulation, and too much consumption of goods and strategic resources for luxury.

History will reign

[xsupergr0verx]

It's really really tough to break into the console market unless you are the corporate equivalent of an 800lb gorilla.

With Sega waning off, Nintendo was destined to be king of console. However, the monstrous Sony had significant capital to bust in to offer serious competition to the N64 (which due to a few great titles [goldeneye, ocarina of time, mariokart, perfect dark] endured quite nicely.)

Microsoft jumped into the market with a green box and a few large advantages. Microsoft already had significant experience in the hardware they would use, (PC parts) a good base OS, (Windows 2000, which is still a good gaming platform) and deep deep pockets that can afford to sell their product below cost. They got some great 3rd party ports going for their superior hardware, and a very good launch title, Halo (which I wasn't terribly impressed with, but it's really the best in the first person arena for the consoles.)

Microsoft was destined to give good competition, just because they can afford to lose/spend a lot of money in hopes of a brighter future. But Infinium Labs? No thanks. Nintendo has been making gaming hardware for over 20 years, Sony has made some quality electronics for some time, and Microsoft has been behind the OS most used for games since (true) 3D PC gaming began 10 years ago.

Go home Infinium Labs. But take some money from some suckers first.

Can Infinium Compete In The Game Console Market?

[dq5 studios]

Why, do they have their own videogame console?

IT Manager Journal?

[cuban321]

I'm personally wondering why any IT Manager would give a crap about a video game console?

This is competition for the Game rental market.

[Anonymous Coward]

The folks that like to rent games are the ones to gain by this.

Is it just me...

[Mikelikus]

...or that's a 2003 article?

Re:Is it just me...

[superpulpsicle]

Pfff.... I remember reading an old magazine in 1994 about the upcoming of a Phantom console from Infinium. Why is this article saying it's been in development for 1 year, when the reality is more like a decade.

Human nature is tribal, not competitive/capitalist

[msobkow]

Human society and nature are tribal or pack based, not competitive/capitalist. The individual dies quickly and alone at the gnashing teeth of hungry predators, the cooperating pack turns the predator into lunch.

Whichever model fits better, I don't think Infineon has any chance of success. Near as I can see, they've re-created the XBox but bundled an ethernet port. Big whoop.

Had they come out on schedule, maybe it would have been different. Microsoft took their market before they ever showed a functioning prototype.

Something already exists for France !

[Anonymous Coward]

Just came across it at http://metaboli.clubic.com/
You just need to have a PC, high-speed connection, and subscribe to the service (10 to 20 euros per month).

Not an amazing list of available games, but it's a start. French only site though, and supposed to be only sold to french customers (I'll see if they accept my subscription, I am french but working in Switzerland atm).

PS: I'm not a representative of this site. Just found it interesting to mention it, having read this news today.

In Other News...

[chaoticset]

The Phantom console will be distributed directly to homes worldwide by Santa Claus. Tech support will be handled through a team effort by the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

And, should you provide an invalid credit card, collection efforts will be handled by the Mothman.