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Another Format War: DVD -R9 v. +R9
Anonymous Coward writes "Just when we thought the dust settled on the last format war between CD-R's we see a new one brewing with DVD recordable discs. DVD -R9/+R9 will apparently be the next technological slugfest where there are no rewards for second place. With all of these new recording format options made available to the public, how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?
Easy: stick to what's proven. For me it's CDRs. I won't even touch DVD-Rs until I stop reading a million different labels at the store.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Buy a drive that supports both formats.
I think you mean the DVD-/+R format war. And, it'll end the same way. We'll all end up with dual format drives.
you vote with your dollars, by refusing to by into either format until the company bigwigs kiss and make up their minds.
Seriously, why can't these people work this out once and for all so that we don't have to buy DVD drives that support seven hundred formats?
...how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?
My guess is that they'll buy into whichever format they current use for single-layer discs.
With all of these new recording format options made available to the public, how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
If they send me 20 dollars I will tell them the secrets to buying a DVD burner.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
"how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
They won't. They havn't been able to since CD-R and CD-RW started confusing grandma and grandpa. This just adds more confusion to the casual computer user.
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
I don't remember a CD-R format war, only CD-R and CD-RW. Did I miss something or is the poster ill-informed?
As long as they keep making +/- drives, I really don't care. Most all systems can read from either of them, and has long as you have a +/- drive you can write to either of them.
------
"And may your days be long upon the earth."
Since where are consumers intelligent?
I stick to my millions of unlabled 3 and a half inch floppies.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
What is the advantage of one format over the other, besides attempted consumer lock-in?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Isn't everyone still arguing over the DVD-R5/DVD+R5 thing? Why wouldn't they/we be fussing over the 9GB version when they/we can't figure out the whole 4.7GB version?
Ask my grandma then pick the other. She still swears by Betamax.
The result is a full 8.5GB or 4 hours of DVD-quality (16 hours of VHS -quality) video.
but who needs _this_ much porn?
Check it out- it's not so hard.
ideally more choice==more competition==lower prices and most drives tend to read/write all the standards
It's hard enough already as it is. I'm still wondering if I should wait for dual layer or just go ahead and buy a single layer writer now. The drives are available now, though not nearly as large of a selection as single layer, especially when it comes to external drives. Dual layer media is currently not readily available retail here in western Canada and reportedly will not be till early next year, and then there will be yet ANOTHER format? What a pain! In contrast, I've had my CD-RW for over 4 years now, it's been the same media and format the whole time. Upgrading CPU's, video cards, memory etc is not such a big deal, but constantly changing media formats for your removable disks is a hassle. A hard drive will work in any machine (even SATA ones have adapters available), but these new DVD types will likely require drives that support them. You can't count on everyone to upgrade their DVD drives every year so you will be able to transfer data to them...
how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?
by being intelligent maybe?
The price drops almost daily on this drive. The only thing holding me back from buying one is the face that the price keeps dropping daily, when it levels I'll place an order.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Dear God, i wonder what these execs are thinking sometimes. Don't they realize how much trouble the +- wars caused in consumer acceptance of DVD Recorders?
And in the end of course it didn't make any difference whatsoever because as new hardware and software came out, the negligible differences and advantages each format had became fairly unimportant.
I still have nightmares about the guy who wouldn't let me leave Best Buy until I explained to him what kind of discs he needed for his computer.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
is assuming that consumers have intelligence. They will buy whatever looks good, especially if the sales guy is any good. Ever work in retail? You know what I'm talking about.
This is a nothing article. This is just part of the same + or - war thats been going on for a while now. 9 doesn't change that.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
I know my Plextor DVD writer accepts both + and - media of the R and RW type, but it only writes at top speed on the DVD+R (or is it -R hehe) media.
Maybe other makes are different.
Blar.
"With all of these new recording format options made available to the public, how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
Simple, don't go for compatibility, go with whatever you need ost between speed or capacity.
Optical media are awfull when it comes to compatibility, at this point it is even a lost cause, there are already too much format. Each OS dealing with each format somewhat differently (ex.: session made ISO9660 after a session made HFS won't show in Windows) make the compatibility problem even worse.
For compatibility I go thumbdrive, USB key, however you wanna call them, these are marvelous, they work cross-platform and very well.
Like how I don't care if the DVD media I buy is - or + because my writer can burn into both, as long as they keep making writers that support all types of discs the additional competition can only be a good thing.
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
The way things are going, it seems even less likely to me to even need a CD/DVD drive a great deal.
With faster internet connectivity, DVD or any removable drive media will probably go the way of the dinosaur - save for backup purposes, and those that backup probably should use a RAID array in an encrypted file server on a network.
Even today you can get your software collection on CD and back them up into iso files or any other format, and then load it on a virtual drive, ala "Daemon tools".
The average consumer will most likely just stick to a DVD player, and a DVD writer that makes video play on said DVD player. Who the hell cares about the different formats?
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
+R9 has a simple advantage..... This format uses "+" symbol. Naive Consumers think automatic "+ == GOOD". Likewise they assume minus sign, "-", is somehow inferior.
I suggest you read Slashdot
I thnk part of the reason there are so many incompatible choices is to keep the consumer confused and baffled. If Jou Consumer can't figure out what to buy, they'll call the retailer, who will sell them a branded drive that will work with their specific model - at a premium, of course. Later when they purchase a new system, the retailer suggests they dump their old system and get a new one. Part of their reasoning is that none of their existing peripherals are compatible.
At least, that's what I've found. My drive will do 8X +R's and 4X -R's, but the -R DVD Video tend to play better in older players. This is a concern for me because I help produce DVD's of various productions at the school.
When I need to backup some data however, I reach for the +R pack...
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
DVD Industry Insider Report - August 20, 2004
Posted Friday, August 20 2004, by clint
DVD Industry Insider Report - August 20, 2004
The Scoop on Emerging DVD-R9 / DVD+R9 Hardware, Technologies and Standards
Recently we were asked why we didn't get more excited about the hardware that will deliver 8.5GB single-side writing capabilities to DVD.
Maybe we were a little negligent because the engineers at Philips, Pioneer and Matsushita have done a great job of proving the technology. But only a few firms (such as NEC, Toshiba and Matsushita) produce the laser diodes which are bought by the true burner manufacturers that are then bought by the PC manufacturers and branded product producers. After they are all done, you can buy the new burner, produce your great DVDs and send copies to friends & family...
[DiscLayers]Compared to the present DVD+/-R media you use (see image at right) the new dual-layer discs are a beautiful work of art and technology.
The media chemists and scientists deserve a tremendous amount of credit for developing the two dye layers and special UV adhesive that bond the two breath-thin resin layers. Moving those specifications onto the high-speed media production line demands a lot of quality production attention. During the early stages only the name brand media manufacturers will have the equipment and talent necessary so you don't produce more coasters.
Dual Standards, Dual-Layer
Because neither side has yet to blink, there will still be two different versions of DVD-R9 media (+/-). By the time you read this the DVD+R9 media spec will be a matter of record. The DVD-R9 specs will still be making their way through committee and DVD Forum approval.
One format won't be better than the other (unless you ask someone deeply committed to one camp or the other). However, it is a lot easier for two companies to work on a common goal and have six others agree than have multiple camps reach agreement and then get the coliseum of interested parties to agree.
All Philips and MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media)/Verbatim had to do is develop the hardware/media technologies, make certain it could be inexpensively and reliably produced and the +RW Alliance was off to the races. Most of the rest of the members don't care which way the wind blows...as long as it blows.
On the other hand, Pioneer, Toshiba and Matsushita/Panasonic (two of the three don't play well together) had to hammer out their differences, go through a series of different working group studies and get the 200+ members of the DVD Forum to agree.
Dictatorships just seem to reach consensus faster than democracies!
Despite the fact that there are differences (incompatibilities) between the two approaches there are some similarities.
Both have two thin substrates joined by specially designed UV bonding materials. When the laser is through writing to the first layer, it increases power slightly and begins writing to the second layer. When you are playing the dual-layer DVDR9 disc (+ or -) you'll have to look hard to notice the switch over from one layer to the other.
The result is a full 8.5GB or 4 hours of DVD-quality (16 hours of VHS -quality) video. Some manufacturers may refer to the capacity of 4 hours of SP and 16 hours of EP so make certain you understand the playback quality you want before you begin writing your write-once discs.
The other big similarity is that the DVD specification requires that players and drives read dual-layer discs. If you encounter one that will read "standard" +/- discs but won't read DVD+/-R9 media it means the manufacturer had a design flaw which they should correct at no charge.
DVD+R9
Cross-section of a dual-layer DVD+R disc
The big hurdle was to keep the new write-once discs compatible with existing player standards.
MKM was able to deliver compatibility by designing media that uses a thin layer silver-alloy as a reflector in the upper layer. This has produced reflec
It's like peanut butter! Crunchy, smooth, extra crunchy, what choices!
(With apologies to Bill Watterson. I would have linked to the appropriate Calvin and Hobbes strip, but I can't find it online. I can't scan it because my scanner and books are packed for moving, and I don't even know where in the books it is.)
With all of these new recording format options made available to the public, how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?
It's easy...Don't be the first to buy in. When the dust settles, whatever format has the most compatibility and support will be the defacto standard. Then you buy it.
-R
Cue crappy Aliens Vs. Predator riffs...
Empty PCI slot + Cheap 200GiB Hard Disk = No need for DVD media.
And I'm too lazy to move em to CD-R. *sigh*
Buy a whole bunch of store gift cards for yourself. Hide them in a stack of floppies at more or less regular intervals. Then once you get down to a gift card, you can spend it. Then once you've copied all your floppies, burn them to a CD or DVD.
I was under the impression that the DVD+/-R debacle was still very much underway, with no "dust settling" over the last couple of years.
sic transit gloria mundi
If only one format can be read from a first-generation DVD-movie player, then choose this one.
If many formats can be read from a first-generation DVD-movie player, then the formats must be the same.
Ugh, I remember when I used to work for staples and HP had (and still has) this program where you read and do tests earning HP info points. These points get you pretty decent mail in rebates. Many of the questions I found to be very stupid. In particular about the DVD+R(W) format. HP chose to go with the +R(W) standard beacause Pioneer had chosen the -R(W) format. So on this page they tell you to tell your customers the +R(W) format is the cheapest, most widely used (even though it wasn't), and best for the consumer. I really wanted to speak with one of these guys in person!
There is no format war. I heard this same story back when DVD+/- R first came out. Guess what? Out of the 7 or 8 dvd playing devices I've ever owned, not ONE of them fails to read either format (including PS2).
Reason being, the big companies want to sell their drives and will almost always make them both + and - compatible.
The reason I say most and not all is because there's always some goon out there creating drives that can only read one format (for whatever reason). These drives never usually sell very well.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
The DVD+ format is better because it supports absolute accurate positioning of the sector to be written. DVD- isn't accurate to a single sector.
:(
That means a DVD+RW can be written to without gaps, just like you can write to a floppy or HD with accuracy in the written sector/without gaps.
And this in turn means that only DVD+RW supports Mount Rainier (in the future). Mount Rainier is hardware assisted packet writing:
- The most important thing is that you can use your DVD+MRW (Mount Rainier Rewritable) as a floppy disk/Hard drive. You drag and drop, delete, write something else etc. Just like a storage device is supposed to be used, none of this "burning" crap. MR has extra fault tolerance too.
- Standard OS drivers for all MR drives, they all behave the same.
- Formatting in the background by the firmware, the RW can be written to after about 1 minute, you don't have to wait for the whole DVD to finish formatting to start using it.
Only problem is, there are no fully compliant Mount Rainier DVD+MRW drives yet
The manufacturers are now scampering to get to 16x speed first. After the makers all achieve 16x then we'll get get other differentiating features in the drives, like MR.
The only advantage you get with +RW at the moment is that OTHER packet writing methods (like Nero InCD) also benefit from the exact laser positioning. You don't get Some of the other MRW stuff like background formatting.
I'm waiting with buying a DVD drive until there's an +MRW. You can also recognize compliant drives with the Philips "Easy Write" logo.
P.S. the DVD-R and -RW camp are the ones that do whatever the movie industry wants. The computer manufacturers split from that group because they wanted better features like absolute write-positioning and came up with +RW.
- -- Truth addict for life.
Just get a recorder that has bitsetting (NEC 2510a with hacked firmware) and you can change the booktype to DVD-ROM. That way older players will play them just as well as -R and original media.
From what I've seen, DVD players are already fairly entrenched into the consumers' living rooms. Even if the dual layer formats were to roll out in mass today, I don't think it would make much difference. Odds are that the - and + formats will both be very slowly accepted because when it boils down to it, not a whole lot of people make their own DVD movies > 4gb. With only a limited market (and the "gee whiz" factor) there won't be much reason for them to adopt the new formats.
;-) This will probably just carry over with the new format, though it would induce much chaos if the macs went + and the pcs went - for this next step. (maybe it's not technologically sensible to zigzag like that?)
I'd also expect the - / + format fight to land the same way as it has in the past. iirc, -R is supported by the Macs, +R by the PCs, and from what I can see of the posts here, dual format by the linux users.
Actually, I never happened to run across anything that describes the differences (and any specific strengths/weaknesses) of the two formats. Anyone care to cliff-note it?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
That said, I am frustrated by the constant news about Blu-Ray this and HD-DVD that, with no products available here yet in the US.
There is only one channel of HDTV in my area and not even one I watch. Start pressing HD discs of some sort already! I have had an 8 foot projection (Quad XGA no less) system for three years now, and only current generation DVD (which admittedly looks DAMN good when pumped out of a Radeon 9800) to watch on it. I'm ready for the full Theater experience!
Letter To Iran
It's rated 4x4x2x2x4x8x8x4x4x8x16x52x32x52.
That wasn't informative......at all.
When you get to hell -- tell 'em Itchy sent ya!
"With all of these new recording format options made available to the public, how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
Easy: wait 6 months and buy a +/- drive.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Then once you get down to a gift card, you can spend it. ;)
Or you can sort through the whole stack till you found all the gift cards. A slightly more rewarding activity
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
Not only does my Sony DL DVD burner happily burn the only DL media I've been able to source, my mother's Samsung DVD/VCR combo player happily plays XVID, MPG and MP4 straight off the discs, no transcoding or special formats needed.
I had a hard time waiting for that hacked firmware to come out. It was sad to find it didn't do it for me.
Even thought you'll be able to write your data a number of different ways depending upon the application you are using, the two layers are treated as a single volume.
Doesn't anyone proof read this shit? I see this on at least 50% of articles I read online.
heh heh heh heh He said dick! heh heh heh heh
I'm waiting for the {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DVD}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} format that embraces everyone like a warm bear hug.
"Just when we thought the dust settled on the last format war between CD-R's we see a new one brewing with DVD recordable discs. DVD -R9/+R9 will apparently be the next technological slugfest where there are no rewards for second place."
This will be the JSF of DVD battles.
DVD+R HAS ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EURASIA! AC has always been at war with the lameness filter!
Here's a GREAT article on the subject that I found a few months back with a lot of technical details on the differences between the two formats:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/113
Interestingly, although a number of people have noted that DVD-R seems to be more "compatible" overall with the majority of readers/players out there, my experience has been that my old ThinkPad 2nd-generation 2x DVD drive (Toshiba) reads DVD+Rs without a lick of trouble, whereas several different DVD-R discs that I've tried in it skip horribly and give me read errors. And this drive was manufactured before either standard was drafted! The especially funny part is that Toshiba was in bed with Pioneer drafting DVD-R (whereas Sony/Philips is the duo that brought us +R) and yet it can't even read the stuff.
-- Nathan
Ah, dagnabit...I hate it when people don't make their URL a link, and yet there I go and forget to do it myself.
Here ya go: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/113
-- Nathan
What about the DVD-R and DVD+R and what's that third one? ....
Ya, I'm sticking w/ CD-R and just buying bigger harddrives. I picked up a 250gb drive for 130bucks, which is perferctly fine prices per gigabyte or (1mil bytes...) for me, besides no messy swapping of disks to access importatn data, it's all handy. Just one of my comps has managed to accumalate 400+ gbs of storage over the years as I just buy a new HD every so often, and mirror backups of trurely critcal documents at various scattered locations (laptop/cd-r/gmail/personal server)
I also don't use CD-RW, don't see the point except for "scaming" things like Rhapsody.
" Seriously, why can't these people work this out once and for all so that we don't have to buy DVD drives that support seven hundred formats?"
Seriously, why do we have so many different kinds of soda pop?
Anyway, are there really that many technical differences?
Where can you purchase the media for these drives, and how much do they cost?
Will they be competitive with DVD5's (as in $1-$2 per disc) or will they be astronomical since it's new?
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
I know /.'ers are expected to comment without RTFA, but crikey, the title of the article includes "R9". That means dual layer, people! (Rounding up the number of gigabytes it will hold -- 4.7 for single layer, 8.5 for dual.) Of the 120-plus postings so far, only a handful address the point.
So far the only dual-layer DVD burners I've seen, and the only dual-layer media I've seen, has been of the +R variety. My Mad Dog Megastor (really a NEC ND-2510A) supports both +R/RW and -R/RW as well as dual-layer +R DL. Of -R DL, the fineprint on the box says "at the time of production, a (-) format Dual Layer standard has not been released".
Format war for +/- R9? I'd say + has won by default, there's no - competition yet.
(As for compatibility, my year-old DVD player plays everything I've thrown at it including 4x +R, 4x -R, 2.4x +RW, 2.4x -RW, and 2.4x +RDL. An older player (several years old) generally recognized the media (one problem with -RW I think) but sometimes had glitchy playback.)
-- Alastair
As long as I use Mac OS X, I don't have a choice. I just take whatever Apple puts in the Powerbook. Right now I have a "SuperDrive", a CD/DVD burner that only burns DVD-R format. If I try to use DVD+R, iDVD absolutely refuses to work and just quits on me. And I'm sure Apple won't give me a choice -- or use a multi-format unit -- in their future laptops.
The winner will be the group that comes in at the lowest price, just like always. Remember the Betamax vs. VHS war? Technical merit had no meaning. The people supporting VHS undersold Sony and took them right out of the game. If it works 'good enough' and is cheaper, that format is the winner.
Perfection is a nice goal, but money drives the marketplace.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
CD-Rs for backing up data and CD copies, and TiVo for recording off the TV..I thought about a DVD recorder as a VCR replacement, but the TiVo seems to do that quite adequately..
Don't be hatin'
Blar.
With all of these new recording format options made available to the public, how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
Intelligently know? Gee... perhaps it's enough to averagely know. No, wait... I guess slowly knowing might suffice. No - I got it! Perhaps the consumer has to fantastically brightly know which one to buy in order for their opinion to be valid!
Seriously, what the hell happened to basic language skills?
how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?
My answer is to buy neither. I don't have a regular DVD-+=
Don't worry about it, don't buy it.
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
If there were ONE standard, we'd have 100% compatibility across devices for that standard. Instead we have SEVEN standards each of which has 90-100% compatibility. So everyone loses.
No, I did not read the f***ing article!
How on Earth are users supposed to choose between DVD-A and DVDA? It simply baffles me.
The Political Programmer
"Except that this isn't a case where the dick manufacturers have their own standards which are competing. "
That's not a freudian slip. It really is a dick war amoungst the manufacturers. "My format's bigger than your format."
"Suuurrrrffff...TURRRRFFFF!!!!!" -- Where have I heard that from before?
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Stone tablets, metal, and paper are the way to go -- they have lasted and will continue to last millenia longer than these fickle plastic technologies.
Haven't we enough of this nonsense? I just recently bought a DVD+-RW. Give me a break. It ends up burning both types. I've been told by one source that DVD+R is more compatible with most drives - no real way to substantiate this personally although I have two DVD-ROM drives one that reads the DVD+R and one that doesn't. It's damn frustrating.
Why can't they settle on one format? The resulting drives end up supporting all possible formats. Disks end up being the same price and capacity. Speeds end up converging. Eventually all formats become obsolete - but that doesn't mean it isn't worth coming to an agreement especially when the user just demands support of all formats - well who wouldn't?
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
See Linux DVD+R/W page and search for "Book type".
In my case setting book type to DVD-R for a DVD+R dvd allowed it to play fine in a drive that would not accept plain DVD+R disk.
"how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?"
Um, the same way they always have? Diligent research, maybe? I mean, it's just a thought...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I'll choose the one that Apple sticks in my next computer.
Seriously, Apple seem to have a knack for popularizing new technologies. Why should this be any different?
HP: +
Microsoft: +
Dell: +
Compaq: - . Then got brought by HP. Now +.
Sony: - . Now moved to dual burners.
Apple: - . Now moved to dual burners (though IIRC some things still require - disks).
DVD-R still plays in more old devices. It remains to be seen if of these two new formats, the + or - will be more compatible. My drive supports +- for single layer and + only for dual layer, so I sure hope it's +, but really I only wanted the dual layer for data, as single layer suits my needs for video just fine.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
...DVD+R DL the standard may be out, but there's no discs. So if your player can be upgraded to DVD-R DL in firmware, you're still at war if and when they become commonly available. They better hurry though, as DVD+R DL right now is "prosumers" that can upgrade the firmware, once it hits mainstream out-of-the-box support is the only thing that counts.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If you have a +R drive, you buy +R discs. If you have a -R drive, you buy -R discs. The market is easily big enough to support both formats, and as long as they can actually read each type of disc, it isn't going to make a huge difference unless you accidentally buy the wrong sort.
The camcorder industry has had a number of standards of media for years. Film cameras for decades. The only time compatibility comes in is when we're looking at pre-recorded media.
... won't become a better longterm (and ultimately cheaper and quicker) alternative then backing up enormous amounts of data onto discs who's reliability is increasingly questionable due the easy at which the data can be made unreadable. The amount of data is exploding but not the speed at which we are backing it up.
In my opinion DVD burners have very few uses: Burning backups of critical data, warez, movies and music. Also the problem with CDR/DVDR-Rot will most likely rear its ugly head. I have cd's less then 2-3 years old that can no longer be read in its entirety theres always some file or portion of the disc (no matter how small) that becomes unreadable over the years. While CD's or DVD's that I've actually purchased last nearly forever if taken good care of. If the quality of burnable media does not get more reliable I can easily see hard drives RAID/internet backup solutions taking their place.
The article makes a mistake in presuming there is a speed / capacity choice to be made when buying the burner. In fact all currently available DL drives will write -R/+R at one speed and +R9 at a different, lower speed. For instance the NEC ND-3500 will write -R/+R at 16x, but will only write +R9 at 4x.
why not just buy a drive that does both? Worked
for DVD+/-R . my Sony DRU-15 - now flashed to a 510A
has served me very well thanks.
Erm, sony was in the + consortium.. remember the +RW consortium is founded by..... Philips&Sony!
Sony were the first to create dual spec writers, but they were originally + only...
Have a nice day!
the next technological slugfest where there are no rewards for second place.
So who exactly won the first +/- slugfest? Seems that now dual format drives are all the rage and most places sell both media side by side. Personally, I'm a fan of the -Rs as they seem to be slightly cheaper however most of my co-workers prefer their +Rs cause that's all a few of their DVD players will handle.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
I never understood why DVD-RAM never took off. It's such a superior format for data storage (Over DVD+-RW) that it's not even funny.
DVD-RW and +RW have to use "packet writing" and other hacks to simulate random access read/write, and it's slow as heck. DVD-RAM is fast, does random-access natively (no need for special drivers to do finalizing and unfinalizing and all that; just mount the device read-write) and is more robust at handling media errors. There was also an optional cartridge format that protected the media, and allowed for double-sided (9.4GB) media.
There was also a very nice DVD-VR (video recording) standard that used DVD-RAM, which permitted random access recording and editing of video, including playing back one stream on the disc while recording another... But it got poor manufacturer support on the player side.
Sure, it's more expensive NOW, but that's only because it didn't catch on! When the DVD recordable formats first came out, DVD-RAM cost around the same as DVD-RW/+RW.
It's sad that such a good random access removeable storage medium is dying. At least it's not longer a big loss, since 4.7GB doesn't really go too far anymore.
-Z
how can any consumer intelligently know which one to buy into?
Duh, it's just like every other decision: use the "Eenie, meenie, miney, moe" algorithm.
As far as compatabillity, yes DVD -R is more compatable, but that's only IF you don't have a buffer underrun... Then the way DVD -R is "Spliced" seems to cause issues in older players, and that's only if it doesn't roach the disc.
If DVD +R works on the hardware you own, Then I HIGHLY reccomend it... It usually takes about 5 minutes more to burn, but maybe that's just because I'm ripping or doing something else while burning... With DVD -R's I can do absolutely nothing, or it roaches the DVD....
I bought a box of each from Wal-Mart to compare... Same brand, same lot, etc... and roached 8 DVD -R disks doing absolutly nothing, wheras I roached only one DVD +R and that was with me decrypting a DVD, compressing a DVD, burning a DVD and Browsing the net... In fact, TRYING to roach one...
DVD +R will save you money, Trust me. I use a Pioneer DVR_107D, and I believe pioneer is in the "minus" camp, but it still works best with plus. If I had used the -R's first (meaning before I did the comparison) I might have thought the drive was defective.
Chinese Vietnamese and Thai chopshops use -R. It is cheaper and more compatible with old DVD players.
This dual layer stuff is bunk...
If you got a 8 gig Movie then re-encode bam it's a 1 gig Xvid problem solved... get like an xbox or pc to play it.
"I do what I want, when I want and how I want it! And no Mummy..yah hear me bandaid?...no Mummy is gonna tell me a-what to do!"
Blar.
Same will go for this format. I also have Mac, PC and Linux so give me a tent for all!
I "own" about 50, counting all of the gear I support at work. (I'm a media tech as well as computer geek according to my job description.) The newer Dell and YumCha White Box PC drives are happy with both. Macintosh DVD drives are not happy with DVD+R (both the old ones go apeshit at CD-RW and the newer ones that don't) , although I haven't tested the drive of the one G5 we have. The cheap ChaYum $50 DVD player we picked up for emergency hot swaps and the couple 4-year old Panasonic DVD players only talk to -R as well, but the genuine RCA Div-X player that I picked up for $10 from a freind who was moving plays anything I throw at it. On the other hand, we've an early RCA player at the job that won't touch anything but true DVD-ROM. I'm not a consoler, so I can't testify on those. I will note that nothing likes DVD-RAM but DVD-RAM, but we knew that going in.
I currently recommend -R for compatibility if you don't know what device you'll be trying to play it on. For newer devices, your odds are very good for either + or -, but for older gear, I've seen about 95% compatibiltiy for -R and 20% compatibility for +R.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.