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LCD Pixel Response Time Halved
kagaku writes "Japanese newspaper the Nihon Kaizai Shimbun (evil registration required) said that Mitsubishi has mastered a technology to improve the response speed of pixels on LCDs by 100 per cent or more. It's done this by getting rid of the afterimages on screens which known as "ghosts", said the newspaper, and invented a proprietary system called Dual Domain Bend.
It cites unnamed sources at Mitsubishi saying that this method produces a response speed of one millisecond when power is applied and five milliseconds when the lights go off and the power goes down. That, the paper said, compares to up to forty milliseconds to switch pixels on and off. While the technique, when it gets to the manufacturing stage, will have immediate benefits for PC monitors, it will also help narrow the gap between LCD TVs and plasma displays, which have a quicker response speed. Here's a non-registration required link."
this will be good for games
--
We are the collective Slashbot HiveMind
Yeah, the non-registration link really tells me a lot more than the blurb... or not ...
them evil registrations...
doesn't a reduction of 100% mean it has been reduced to 0ms?
I thought LCD technology was being replaced by DLP? Is this not the case?
"100 per cent or more"
It is actually less than 0ms. The images will appear on your screen before your GPU is even done with it!
Perfect for duke nukem forever!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
I thought LCD technology was being replaced by DLP? Is this not the case?
The problem isn't the technology but the investment; we're not talking small dollars to make plants to produce LCD panels, we're talking hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars invested by the electronics industry.
LCDs are going to be around for a long while; it'll be nice when the response rates come down and larger panels get cheaper.
..don't panic
Sucks to be me. Bought a 42" plasma television 9 months ago and the brightness has dropped significantly in that time, probably a half of what it was when I bought it. Thats under heavy use, maybe 16-18 hours/day it's on. Anybody else here have the same experience ?
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I already installed quality control last night. But then I woke up and now I have to use a work-around (class and work).
Wow! This is a great way to preempt a dying web server. Post the entire article in the summary instead of relying on karma whores.
100% work*time improvement - Everyone goes what?
50% of the time to display - Everyone says what? then gets it.
twice as fast. - Everyone says oh, OK.
Each increasing easier to understand but decreasingly attractive to marketing droids.
Sigh.
If the pixels can respond to any signal within 5 ms, that means the highest framerate that can be displayed without ghosting is 200 fps (1 / 5ms = 200 Hz). Which is more than you should ever need, and a big improvement on current LCD displays (a good consumer display has a ~20ms response time; 1 / 20ms = 50 Hz, not even 60 fps, but good enough for TV's 30 fps.)
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
After days of agonizing between it and the 20 inch Dell, I bought the Samsung 710T and I am pretty happy with it. And I have never noticed any ghosting whatsoever while playing games like Far Cry and Doom 3 and watching movies like Hell Boy. So I think the Response Time is already adequate, at least on the 17 inch sizes.
Smoking is an expensive, slow, and unreliable method of suicide.
No ghosts and (suposedly) heaps better responce time is much better than the second hand CRT I was using last lear, which had burn in of previous companys logo. I guess the guy who worked on it went on holiday and left his screen on... Wonder if new LCDs will have a hidden down similar to plasmas (colour fade) ? I'm just waiting till direct neural wireless interface is invented so I can burn out my optic nerves watching ultraviolet!
"Persistance is Fertile" - Me. I can quote myself if I want to.
Things get really out of hand when there's a factor of two:
From this it's not too far to sayWhich then gets twisted further toIt's that last step that's most dubious to me, arithmetically (or geometrically) there's no justification.Just in time for Doom 3....
Faster switching == more power needed? Not good for laptops..
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
I was wary of buying an LCD a few months ago because of the ghosting issues. I finally caved and bought a Samsung 172x. It was expensive, but it was worth it. With the 12ms response time there are literally no ghosts. And sitting next to my old CRT with xinerama its like night and day. I'm waiting for the price to drop so I can buy one or two more and get rid of my CRT once and for all. If only my video card had two DVI instead of one DVI one VGA...
So yeah, I don't know why this is news. Sure, maybe they increases response times to be even better. But the ghosting problem was eliminated when they got it down to 12ms.
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From The Enquirer.net.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... if the pixels only respond half of the time ?
Meanwhile Samsung is readying 8ms 19" LCDs for production in Q4 , 2004. 12ms LCDs produce almost no noticeble ghosting, 8ms should be even better at closing the gap to CRTs.
stupid article says nothing about the technology. WTF is Dual Domain Bend?
If only those numbers weren't just pulled out of some marketroid's arse just because they look good.
Remember that it's from the same guys who brought you the 14" display with only 10" visible. Or 16ms TFT panels which actually show about 120ms worth of ghosting.
Or 18 bit colour TFT panels + dithering being sold as 24 bit panels. On account that surely making the display shimmer and flicker as it approximates colours by switching between other colours, is exactly what you always wanted in a TFT.
(Someone remind me why a 20-30 Hz shimmer on TFT is better for my eyes than the 85 Hz flicker of a CRT? No really, I keep forgetting.)
The computer industry as a whole is a pretty sad display of lies, shameless lies and IT marketting. But the display part of the industry has got to take the cake.
At least half of the progress since the days of 120ms panels is just more creative ways to measure it, and/or to fudge the numbers.
So basically what I'm getting at is: when you'll see a 5ms display on sale, you can rest assured that it's really a 30-40ms real latency fudged down to 5ms by the marketting department. And after the dithering is applied too, you can probably count on 40-50ms or more.
I really wouldn't set my hopes too high about being able to display 100 fps without ghosting anywhere in the next 5 years.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
If it takes 50ms to respond then that is 100% of the response time.
If you improve the response speed by 100% you eliminate those 50ms.
If you improve the response speed by more than 100% then you have a response before the change has been signaled.
Way cool.
This should allow 3D shutter glasses to work adequately with LCD displays. Those glasses would allow for a full-colour 3D effect, as opposed to red/blue 3D glasses.
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Now, let's take full advantage of DVI spec. If some ambitious programmer wants to make Linux the absolute bomb for some domains of science and gaming they should write drivers for the direct pixel access component of the DVI spec. Waiting for refreshes is so passe. We should be able to update pixels on the screen independently. But, no one has written drivers to do that. Imagine, no tears, no refresh rates, etc.
How fast the display is does not mean much if you are looking at several bad pixels. That, not the speed of the display, is what is keeping me from switching.
12ms are on the market now, so if by a 100% improvement they mean 100% improvement over 12ms, that's reasonable.
But with 8ms LCDs coming out soon, this announcement is decidedly less impressive.
Besides, when Samsung's 17" OLED display comes out next year, we'll all forget about response times.
TVs do 60Hz refresh, alternating ("interlacing") odd/even line fields for 30Hz, which is 33 1/3ms. Even if LCDs can get below their 40ms to 30ms, they've got parity with TVs, and designers can concentrate on making the $500 800x600 sheets cheaper than their $100 CRT competition. If they can get down to 15ms, they can do 60Hz noninterlaced, which will be good enough for HDTV (at 1280x720 and 1920x1080). If they've really got an LCD square wave signal emission at 5ms, that's 200Hz, which "ought to be enough for anyone" :).
;) the natural appearance at the sample and the at delivery. The high speed of these LCDs would give flexibility for fitting a parametric clocked square wave more closely to the curve of each sampled surface's actual reflection.
The real breakthrough would be in combining these LCDs with asynchronous clocking, as has been recently investigated in CPUs. LCDs are transistor gate arrays, just like Pentiums, but including a tuned diode rather than mainly NAND gates of half-adder units. Fooling the eye into believing it's seeing a real object, rather than just an image of an object, depends on appealing to the eye's nonuniform sampling. While the optic nerve signals the brain at about 40Hz, each retinal receptor samples on its own "clock", without the lockstep sync of an entire retina, though today's LCDs all flash in lockstep. If the LCD panel could clock each diode according to its own variance, that might give the eye a more natural signal context, and look more realistic. Flip the tech into the smaller package of video sensors, basically memory chips with a mounted lens, and video sampling would reflect (pun intended
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Unfortunately, both The Inquirer's terse and sloppy writeup and the poster's cut 'n paste job have the newspaper in question's name misspelled: it's the Nihon Keizai Shinbun (shinbun/shimbun are alternate romanizations of the same Japanese), not Kaizai. Keizai means "economics; business; finance; economy" as per the excellent and free Jeffrey's Japanese/English Dictionary. (Kaizai, on the other hand, translates to "interposition; intervention".) The mistake changes the reading from "Japan Economic newspaper" to "Japan interposition newspaper", quite the difference...
Why is there no publication that presents honest reviews and objective evaluation of TFT monitors (and other hardware, for that matter). I would buy it.
The manufacturers wouldn't advertise in the magazine. Magazines make money mostly from advertising, not subscriptions. Something like Consumer Reports is the exception but they're typically lacking in the methodology department.
One counter-example on the web is Bare Feats. They have some good reviews but I don't know if buying one-of-every LCD panel is in their budget. I think they use people in the field for some of their hardware, but if actual instrumentation is required for measuring response rates, etc., it's going to be trickier than having somebody run a benchmark tool.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Assuming Mitsubishi is willing enough to at least liscence this sort of tech out to other companies (I wouldn't expect them to be, IMHO), this could seriously blur the fine line between the advantages of waiting for OLED displays to come out and getting an LCD within the next couple of years. If we can slightly broaden the viewing angle (not an easy task since the screen has to be polarized), I don't see very many advantages to getting an OLED screen.
"fucking sandal wearing beardy engineers": you're one, I'm one, the original poster is one... we all are. There are no marketdroids reading slashdot.
Now, perhaps if you had posted about how marketingspeak is superior to technical jargon, you would have been more likely to get a lot of responses.
I just want a true black. I bought a 30 inch LCD panel this weekend only to find that the black levels were so horrible that the screen was almost unusable. Looked good under the store lighting, though...
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
It got no play in the American media because nobody gives a sh*t.
There is one problem LCDs have for moving images (face it, for videos and games CRTs are still better) the switch time already has reached more or less the times needed for video and games, the problem is the tearing caused by differend color switch times. I rather doubt this problem has been resolved since the bright-dark cicle has different switch times into different directions.
So in otherwords their using the drawing lag to refresh the screen. BFD
I was considering a quality 15 - 17" LCD display for personal use, but the issues with dead pixels make me weary... other than that, i've rarely seen ghosting on 20ms panels, Samsung atleast.
So, i'm considering a quality "flat" CRT - probably LG or Samsung. Their Flatron and DynaFlat tubes, respectively, give a great image for cheap.
It's Nihon Keizai Shinbun. Gods, we need the Japanese equivalent of Engrish.com :P
I'd be interested to see that paper. Did you actually have something like that, or are you just ranting? One would think that if your submission were rejected, you'd at least post it in here.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
google: "the scientific impact of nations" 2004 david king
t ific+i mpact+of+nations%22+2004+david+king&sourceid=mozil la-search&start=0&start=0
Here is the search url"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22the+scien
If you read the report, you can see that if you look at the social democracies (Sweden, Denmark) and Switz and the other NW EU countries, they have 2 times the papers per capita as the USA. And of course these are the countries that supposedly are on their ass economically because of their high taxes and their crippling welfare state.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I thought I'd be funny and post the article exactly word for word, guess I should've realised that Slashdot editors don't actually rtfa.
everyday is another shooter.
At first, this was a joke. But now I'm wondering: would this make video capture more difficult, especially if they intersperse black frames?
I suspect that it might make display a bit jerkier, having abrupt display changes rather than dissolve side-effects. To take it further, I predict that there'll be a backlash similar to DVD vs vinyl.
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
Mods... how does a first post get modded "Redundant"?
Blah... now "Offtopic" me
Idiots.
"Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
Oh, don't be so hard on yourselves. You're world leaders in military invasions.
America is the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
... but your propaganda and indoctrination programs could use some work.
In a room with incandecent bulbs noticing 60Hz to 75Hz is pretty common.
When the only light is from a flourescent bulb (the electric service timing is shot by the slow response of the gas) it is possible to percieve a blinking at much higher frequencies (although this is usually due to a timing issue between the flourecent bulb's "blink" rate and the screen's refresh timing [phosphor decay]).
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.