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Steel Bolt Hacking

Alec Kryten writes "Here is a book that introduces and teaches a fascinating new sport for the hacking hobbyist which doesn't necessarily involve computers. Steel bolt hacking is the art of competition lock picking that is beginning to make its mark on computer people and other geeks around the world. At DefCon this year I picked up a book titled Steel Bolt Hacking, which teaches the basics of lock picking. I bought it because I watched the lock-picking contest during the DefCon Convention and thought that I might want to participate in next year's lock-picking events." Read on for Alec's review of the book. Steel Bolt Hacking author Douglas Chick pages 114 publisher TheNetworkAdministrator.com rating 8 out of 10 reviewer Alec Kryten ISBN 0974463019 summary How to pick locks, crack combinations for LP sports groups

The beginning of the book discusses the origins of lock-picking sporting groups, crews in the U.S and Europe, competition around the country, and how to become a part of a lock-picking group. One of the groups out of Colorado Springs, DC719, are a bunch of computer geeks that have taken up the art of lock picking and sponsor a lock-picking contest every year at DefCon. According to Mr. Chick, computer people are the fastest group to pick up the art of lock picking. (I must warn you though, there are also a lot of disclaimers about the author not being responsible for the misuses of the information contained in this book.)

The book is fully illustrated with pictures of different types of lock picking instruments, tools to make your own picks as well as padlocks, deadbolt, and combination locks. There are pictures of locks that have been cut open and even how to crack push-button combination locks. (You know, the kind you find on the door to a server room.) I have to say, for a little book, (114 pages) it is brimming with valuable information for a beginner. What I didn't realize was that software isn't the only thing that has security vulnerabilities; mechanical things like padlocks and deadbolts do as well. What was scary to learn is how easy cheap locks can be picked, and that 80 percent of all locks used are cheap locks. Expensive locks are just likely to take a little longer.

I liked that the book didn't exaggerate. It didn't tell me that I was going to be a master lock picker after only a few tries. It took a little time, practice and sore fingers, but after a couple weeks of practice, I could pick every lock in my house. And as a computer person, I liked all of the jargon that was used to explain locksmith techniques. There was also enough humor to keep the book interesting; it's difficult to read any type of textbook and still maintain a reasonable interest. The illustrations are good and there is a resource section to purchase the tools you need from the Internet.

What I didn't like about the book: The most annoying point, I felt, is the considerable redundancy in methods between different types of locks to be picked. Also, the book suggests that there might be a lock-picking group in every city in the U.S., when in fact I am having a difficult time finding one in my are. And I live near D.C. -- You'd think there would be one on every corner around here. I think that the sport is still in its infancy and Mr. Chick is hoping his book will draw more people to it. The author put his e-mail address on the back of the book. He hasn't responded to my e-mail yet, but I suppose that he's probably a busy man.

All in all, I found the book informative, entertaining and worth the purchase price of 19.99.

You can purchase Steel Bolt Hacking from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

448 comments

  1. Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Think that Kryptonite lock is safe? Think again.

    Some other interesting discussion. Small wonder I scarcely let my racing bike out of my sight.

    "may I borrow your pen? I need to pick up some transportation."

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      I feel bad for the poor guy who you linked to - sites with video that get linked to from here usually don't last long.

    2. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Haha, very nice videos. Will have to try that on my lost-the-key-so-long-ago bike lock at home.

      In case the videos get /.'d, the technique appears to be that you jam the open end of those cheap plastic pens into the keyhole hard enough and turn it. I'm guessing the plastic is malleable enough to conform to the 'teeth' of the lock and basically becomes a near duplicate of the original key. Pretty neat.

    3. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by billyjoeray · · Score: 1

      Take a look at the google ad on the forum thread

      --
      This sig will make it clear that ANYONE can use this post for ANY purpose WITHOUT the written consent of the NFL.
    4. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by brunning · · Score: 5, Interesting

      it's my site... those two quicktimes have been downloaded close to 80,000 times today so far, but the server (dreamhost.com) appears to be going strong.

    5. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by cjsnell · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      those two quicktimes have been downloaded close to 80,000 times today so far, but the server (dreamhost.com) appears to be going strong.

      Your monthly hosting invoice is going (to be) pretty strong, too.

    6. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by legirons · · Score: 1

      "Think that Kryptonite lock is safe? Think again."

      Ironically, those of us with bike-lockers at work are probably even less safe (cylinder locks being about as secure as a "please stay away" sign and all that...)

    7. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by brunning · · Score: 1

      i'm keeping an eye on that :)

    8. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by unaesthetic.net · · Score: 0

      I'm the person who posted that information over at bikeforums. All I can say is this is going to be a pretty big deal.

    9. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      I'm the person who posted that information over at bikeforums. All I can say is this is going to be a pretty big deal.

      After buying a couple of these things and recommending them to friends, I can say I feel mightily let down.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    10. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Errr... is that a new type of Kryptonite lock? I have some 10-year old ones and there's no hole at the midpoint of the straight bar, as shown in the video. On mine, the key goes into one end of the straight bar.

      Reminds me of an ad Kryptonite used to run in bike mags - some volunteer firefighter in a small town got a call about a bike locked up with a Krypto lock, and the pretty young lady had lost her key. He attempted to use the dept's jaws of life on the lock. Suffice to say, Krypto lock 1, jaws of life 0. Cost the dept over $10,000.

    11. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by jjwahl · · Score: 1

      I don't think that there is a name for this phenomenon (a comment link getting /.'d). I mean it's not really the same as being /.'d.

      If there is, I stand corrected. If there isn't, I would like to nominate "comment .'d" or "echo .'d".

      Any other ideas?????

      --

      You need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers, and say "that's the bad guy."
    12. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Woody77 · · Score: 2, Informative

      A) They didn't have good jaws

      B) They had WAY overprice jaws.

      Unless he was an idiot/improperly trained, and tried to "spread" the lock, which doesn't work with hardened steel. Now, the Hurst "heavy cutters" make very short work of hardened steel, just make sure you're not on the path that the two halves will go when they finally separate.

      (I'm a volunteer firefighter with a decently good bit of education/practice/use of Hurt's jaws).

    13. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Holi · · Score: 0

      After looking at those videos, and although I do not have one in front of me right now, I don't remember kryptonites having a hole in the lock at the bottom of the straight bar. so unless I am wrong it took a drill and a bic pen. I'll check this out when our order comes in.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    14. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are wrong.

    15. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, if you're in this position just find a metal-worker guy, have 'em zip it off with a cut-off blade or a torch, and like noooooo big f'n deal.

      Even better if you can find a guy with an exothermic torch. Hardened steel? Yawn.

    16. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by emilng · · Score: 1

      They already got boingboing'ed and survived. I'm sure they'll do fine.

    17. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by RWerp · · Score: 1

      Or spray liquid nitrogen (available at animal inseminator stations or any decent physics lab) on it.

      --
      "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
    18. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can of Freon and a 5 lb. sledge.

    19. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 1

      Coralised (mirror) version. Although Coral itself seems to be down atm, which is ironic.

    20. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by wattersa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      that's because dreamhost is the bomb. i host all my sites there (no affiliation ;-)

    21. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And a link to the Hurst cutters with specs.

      Yup, a cutting force of 94,000lbs or 320kN are quite impressive.

      PS: when I did it I used one of those portable circular saws with a tungsten carbide blade. The 10ft shower of white sparks was so cool I repeated the trick on the next 4th of july. The damn city banned safe&sane fireworks, and this was the best spark shower I could find an excuse for - my apologies to the volunteer fire department guy in the partent post, but the metal-cutting blade makes a pretty cool firework in places where they're banned..

    22. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We used to asy that "All bikes weigh 40 pounds". A 20 lb. bike needs a 20 lb. lock, a 30 lb. bike needs a 10 lb. lock. Of course, a 40 lb. bike needs no lock (who would steal it).

    23. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm a volunteer firefighter with a decently good bit of education/practice/use of Hurt's jaws
      Hoho.
    24. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's an obvious solution to this problem. Just pass a law making pens illegal.

    25. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by Holi · · Score: 1

      overrated????

      i was wrong, how is that overrated?

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    26. Re:Lock Picking For fun and Profit??? by usrusr · · Score: 1

      while this is roughly true, in bitter reality "physical" laws are a bit different:

      you don't need the "lb_max - lb_bike" lock, you simply need the one that looks stronger than the one on the comparable bike standing next to it. if your bike is the fanciest in the flock and the lock is too strong you can rest assured that most potential thiefs will smack it up to the point where the bike is unusable until major surgery takes place.

      on a related note, the local newspaper had a story a few months ago about a policeman who rode his duty-bike to some place in the center of town during a bigger festivity, parked it (without really locking), and just stood around in the vicinity for a while until he could arrest the first guy who tried to ride away on it. guess how much delight this story caused to all those people who lost roughly a handfull of bikes (of varied value) to theft over the years.

      --
      [i have an opinion and i am not afraid to use it]
  2. A valuable skill by erick99 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A few years ago I bought a few books on lock picking as well as a lock pick set from England. It turned out to be a great skill to pick up. I have opened countless door locks, cabinets, etc. and saved myself and others money and aggravation. The downside is that if it's widely known that you have this skill you may well be a "suspect" when an office or house is broken into. Anyway, the book sounds good.

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      as well as a lock pick set from England [...] The downside is that if it's widely known that you have this skill you may well be a "suspect"

      Just so you know, you don't have to be a 'suspect'. Owning of lockpicks is illegal. Pure and simple. I guess only terrorists use them or something.

    2. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about some links man? That'll be great. Thanks!

    3. Re:A valuable skill by RevDobbs · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The downside is that if it's widely known that you have this skill you may well be a "suspect" when an office or house is broken into.

      Yeah, that's why I try not to buy books like this one over the internet... nor use my credit card / B&N "member" card when buying it in person.

    4. Re:A valuable skill by lhand · · Score: 5, Informative

      You might also check out Ted the Tool's on-line book called the "MIT Guide to Lock Picking" found here among lots of other places.

    5. Re:A valuable skill by rokzy · · Score: 1

      in which country is it illegal? blanket statements like that are not very useful.

      are locksmiths also banned from lockpicks?

    6. Re:A valuable skill by Carik · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depends where you live, actually. I'm a locksmith (which is to say, I took a correspondance course, and then did a whole lot of reasearch on my own), and according to Massachusetts (USA) law, owning a set of picks isn't illegal. Owning them with intent to commit a crime is what's illegal. Now... you can probably see the problem here. Go ahead, prove you're not intending to commit a crime...

      Basically, if the police want an excuse to harass you, they have one. If you stay out of their way, and don't make it obvious, usually no one will care. Further, if you can prove you need them for your job, you're even less likely to get hassled.

    7. Re:A valuable skill by Skye16 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, you don't have to prove you're not intending to commit a crime. That's the beauty of innocent until proven guilty.

      They could still make your life a living hell just by trying to prove it, though, so your harassment statement stands. Eep!

    8. Re:A valuable skill by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

      Real informative there... It looks like it's broken.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    9. Re:A valuable skill by DaCool42 · · Score: 1

      Illegal in some places in the US if you are not a registered locksmith. Not everyone on /. lives in the same place as you do.

      --

      ----
      All of whose base are belong to the what-now?
    10. Re:A valuable skill by wantedman · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not a Lawyer.

      1. It's illegal in the US, depending on your state's law. Some states don't allow you to own lockpicks, while others are more leniant.

      2. Locksmiths are not banned from using lockpicks. You don't need special certifications to be a locksmith, but you do need a business license to order from many lockpick manufacturers.

    11. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Owning of lockpicks is illegal. Pure and simple. I guess only terrorists use them or something.

      Not yet, at least here in the US; but perhaps it should be, based on the precident set by the DCMA.

      Also, Ball Point Pens should be outlawed since they can circumvent such protection mechanisms as locks as well.

      And everytime you buy a lot, you should give the spare key to the government (key escrow).

      Finally, can I sue this guy for telling theives how to break into my kryptonite lock? After all, if he posted weaknesses in my web site I'd want to sue him.

    12. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The downside is that if it's widely known that you have this skill you may well be a "suspect" when an office or house is broken into.

      Ack. That's why at work, I try to know as few passwords as possible, especially for privileged accounts. This way, if something goes wrong nobody can blame me (I'm a developer, not an admin).

    13. Re:A valuable skill by lhand · · Score: 1

      Boy, it sure is. D'oh.

      Oh well, just google for MIT guide to lockpicking. You'll find lots of copies.

    14. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe its just you. Works fine for me.

    15. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...just like possessing a "slim jim" is illegal (but trivial to make. Get a springy, but still bendable, piece of thin sheet steel, cut it into about 3' (1 M) x 3/4" (2 cm), and cut a couple of hooks onto one end).

      Don't get pulled over with one visible in the backseat of your car...

    16. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Felt tips are illegal because of CD security, ball points are illegal because of bike security. That leaves pencils and crayons.

      Pencils can be used as a weapon, and crayons are fire accelerants.

      hmm. I guess we should just abandon this whole civilization thing.

    17. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I used to get the combinations for Masterlock combo locks in college all the time.

      This site has the full details:
      http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~hillson/master_ lock.html

    18. Re:A valuable skill by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1

      You're right that it varies by states. There are also some states where it is legal to own lockpicks, but where using them in the process of committing a crime gets you a stiffer penalty than the same crime would if you hadn't used lockpicks. Which is a bit strange.

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    19. Re:A valuable skill by the+chao+goes+mu · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You have to watch out. Some states have decided (by statute or precedent) that a non-locksmith possessing lock picks creates a presumption of criminal intent.

      --
      Boys from the City. Not yet caught by the Whirlwind of Progress. Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.
    20. Re:A valuable skill by valenti · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that "possession of lock picking tools" is a crime in Michigan (unless you are a licensed locksmith?).

      And I'm not sure what the definition of those tools is - a very small screwdriver? A dentist's pick?

    21. Re:A valuable skill by senor_burt · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can buy some picks here, if you claim you're a locksmith.

      They don't do a 'terrorist' background check.

    22. Re:A valuable skill by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 1
      I'm pretty sure that "possession of lock picking tools" is a crime in Michigan (unless you are a licensed locksmith?).

      As far as I can tell, section 750.116 of the Michigan Penal Code prohibits the possession of "burglar's tools", defined as
      any nitroglycerine, or other explosive, thermite, engine, machine, tool or implement, device, chemical or substance, adapted and designed for cutting or burning through, forcing or breaking open any building, room, vault, safe or other depository, in order to steal therefrom any money or other property, knowing the same to be adapted and designed for the purpose aforesaid


      This could include lockpicks, being a "tool" adapted or designed for "breaking open" a building, but it's more likely that this statute is intended to apply to safe-cracking.



      NOTE: I am not a lawyer admitted to practice in Michigan. This is not legal advice, and you should not rely upon it.

      --
      All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
    23. Re:A valuable skill by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Interesting
      And I'm not sure what the definition of those tools is - a very small screwdriver? A dentist's pick?

      I once picked a lock with a bobby pin. Really. Broke it in two and bent with my multitool to made a rake and a tension tool. This with knowing nothing about lock picking except for a brief description in Feynman's story "Safecracker Meet Safecracker" in "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman"

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    24. Re:A valuable skill by Dr.+Sigmund+Freud · · Score: 3, Funny
      ... nor use my credit card / B&N "member" card
      Ummm...you slipped up. Now they can track you with your /. user id # 313888.

    25. Re:A valuable skill by wantedman · · Score: 1

      Don't know where you live, AP, but here in Michigan, we can purchase one at the local hardware store.

      It even gives the serial numbers on cars it's effective for.

    26. Re:A valuable skill by Volmarias · · Score: 1

      The HTML version is broken, but the postscript download is perfectly viewable (at least for me, running GhostView).

    27. Re:A valuable skill by Sneftel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Whine about it for awhile longer. Then use the Wayback Machine.

      --
      The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
    28. Re:A valuable skill by Sneftel · · Score: 1

      The key there is "in order to steal therefrom any money or other property". Similar wording is present in virtually every state law. In other words, it's a crime if and only if you're planning to use it to break into things. In fact, the laws I've seen often lump lockpicks, crowbars, and screwdrivers (!) into the same category as "potential burglary tools".

      --
      The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
    29. Re:A valuable skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong. In some states it is quite illegal to own anything designed with the intention of pin tumbler lock circumvention. It is also illegal to own surveillance devices (any device that seems to have been designed with that intent). That is a federal law. The ownership is in itself the crime. Think of it like child porn.

    30. Re:A valuable skill by Binky+The+Oracle · · Score: 1

      There are also some states where it is legal to own lockpicks, but where using them in the process of committing a crime gets you a stiffer penalty than the same crime would if you hadn't used lockpicks. Which is a bit strange.

      Not all that strange... armed robbery would be a good example of the same thing - you'll face a much stiffer penalty for using a weapon (or making the people think you have a real weapon) than if you just committed robbery with your hands.

      I actually think this is a much more equitable solution when dealing with objects that can be used for crime (lockpicks, guns) instead of blanket prohibitions/restrictions, but I think the escalation of penalties should be much more severe.

      I've always secretly wanted to be able to pick locks... is there any reason for me to be able to? Not really. Would it be cool? Hell yeah!

      --

      Slashdot comments... splitting hairs since 1997.

    31. Re:A valuable skill by T-Ranger · · Score: 1

      Is it fair that a mechanic who brings $5,000 of his own tools to work gets paid more?

    32. Re:A valuable skill by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's the same. Using gun in the commission of a crime is more serious than not using one because the presence of the gun makes it more likely that someone will be shot and thus is something to be discouraged. I don't think that breaking into someone's house to steal stuff by using lock picks is inherently worse or more dangerous than doing so without lockpicks.

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    33. Re:A valuable skill by Binky+The+Oracle · · Score: 1

      I can certainly see your point, although I think it's one of those "matter of degree" things. Assuming the states that have these increased penalties for using lock picks in the commision of a crime don't have a blanket prohibition on owning lock picks, by increasing the penalty, they are "encouraging" people to use them only for legimitate reasons.

      I hesitated to mention guns for precisely the reason you mentioned - one is deadly force, the other is not and people will get distracted by that part of the argument. Instead, how about comparing it to wire fraud - it's still theft, so why make it special if you use a computer or the telephone?

      --

      Slashdot comments... splitting hairs since 1997.

    34. Re:A valuable skill by bentcd · · Score: 1

      Actually, by analogous logic, using a lockpick
      should be considered _better_ than not since
      this means you are making some effort not to
      damage your victim's door or lock :-)

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
  3. Lock Hacking in Hackers by MacBrave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I first read about serious lock hacking in the book Hackers by Steven Levy. The early hackers at MIT were notorious for hacking locks on office doors, toolboxes, safes, etc. to get to tools and information.

    1. Re:Lock Hacking in Hackers by TaxSlave · · Score: 1

      Hackers is a great book. I've read it a couple times, and I wish I knew whathappened to my copy. You'd think, since I run a used bookstore, that someone would have brought a copy in, but no...

      A humorous note, my wife's ex-husband ate his blatties.

    2. Re:Lock Hacking in Hackers by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      My favorite part in that book is about a young "hacker" who picked the lock to a tool cabinet, to use a particular screwdriver. Well, the screw was behind a few live exposed terminals, and the hacker accidentally shorted the terminals with the screwdriver. He replaced the screwdriver in the cabinet with a note on it that said "used up".

    3. Re:Lock Hacking in Hackers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Looks like the authors of these books all read "Hacking Nerds' Wallets".

    4. Re:Lock Hacking in Hackers by aduthie · · Score: 1

      Makes sense. We had a guy down the hall at the University of Michigan in the early 90's who fooled around with locks. He somehow got an old, unneeded key to use like a blank, then proceeded to solder metal onto it and file metal off of it based on observations of some of our own room keys. Eventually he had his very own master key that opened at least 1/4 of the building. Maybe not *the* master key, but a housekeeping key at least. As with typical hacking, it was just to learn about how master keys work and to see if he could do it.

    5. Re:Lock Hacking in Hackers by kd5ujz · · Score: 1

      There is a way to do this called impresining a lock. You take a key blank ( avaliable at any place that cuts keys) and mark it with a marker or a pencil. Put it in a lock, and twist right and left. Then take a needle file and file down where the pins marked the key. You continue to file untill the impressions are very subtle, then move to the next pin. With some practice you can impression a lock in under 30 minutes.

      --
      -William
      God is everything science has yet to explain.
  4. Noticed the trend as well by Khaotix · · Score: 5, Funny

    Lockpicking and an interest in computers seem to go hand in hand. A number of the people in my college are seen practicing picking locks during boring lectures.

    One guy picked the lock on a projector and cabled another person to the projector cart

    1. Re:Noticed the trend as well by knowles420 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Lockpicking and an interest in computers seem to go hand in hand.

      lockpicking skill and an interest in computers, not so much.

      --
      -knowles
    2. Re:Noticed the trend as well by tsg · · Score: 2, Informative

      I learned how to pick locks in college. It was a valuable skill in the dorms where people were consistently locked out by their roommates. Housing charged you $25 to let you back in. I charged $20.

      An interesting side effect, I'm sure one that goes with just about any skill most people don't have, is the number of times you see people in movies doing it absolutely wrong.

      --
      People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
    3. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      What an excellent point. I love lockpicking and I'm definitely interested in computers. Where did you say you lived again?

    4. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      An interesting side effect, I'm sure one that goes with just about any skill most people don't have, is the number of times you see people in movies doing it absolutely wrong.

      Like the CSI guy trying to get tool marks off a pipe wrench. He makes up a round mandrel, spreads the goop on it, locks it in a vase, then carefully applies the suspected wrench to the mandrel and pushes it (straining with the effort) in the wrong direction.

    5. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Colazar · · Score: 1
      Oh my goodness, lockpicking in college.

      One of my friends figured out how to pick the lock to the cafeteria using one of those metal shelf-holders. We successfully used that technique for months, going in to get the occasional soda or piece of fruit. (Our rationalization for doing so was that we missed a lot of meals on our food plan (which was unlimited food, but only at certain times of the day) by sleeping through breakfast. So they "owed" us the food.)

      Unfortuanately he showed his roommated how to do it, and soon after that he got drunk on a Saturday night, and proceeded to invite the whole dorm in. They ravaged the place. I distinctly remember one guy taking a 20lb tub of chocolate pudding back to his dorm room.

      Needless to say, the locks got changed that Monday, and our free sodas were history.

      --
      He decided to just watch the government, and kind of scale it down to size, and run his life that way. --Laurie Anderson
    6. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the locks at UCSD are Medeco's. :-(

    7. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 4, Informative
      An interesting side effect, I'm sure one that goes with just about any skill most people don't have, is the number of times you see people in movies doing it absolutely wrong.

      Boy is this true. Having worked with card-access systems for 5 years, I always chuckle at the way movie characters get past these things, and not trip any alarms in the process.
      Just some notes for those people contemplating getting past a card reader.
      • Pulling apart the reader may trigger an alarm, not always but often enough.
      • Shorting the wires together will not open the lock. What it will do is A) send lots of alarms (read fails) to the guard at the security desk. B) Very possibly short out the door control and make the door locked permanitly.
      • From the Resident Evil movie, running a needle through a card reader will get you jack. Maybe its a good thing they just let her out.
      • You will never "lock in" a single digit of a PIN combination on one a electronic combination lock by running through numbers. What you will do is send through a bunch of alarms to the guard.
      • While cutting the wires to a door alarm will technically disable the alarm, the loss of the door loop will send through its own alarm. Those wires carry a specific resistance, if that changes an alarm is sent.
      Those are about the worst offenders off the top of my head, in reality getting past an electronic lock is a pain in the ass, this is why the government/military uses them.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    8. Re:Noticed the trend as well by corngrower · · Score: 1
      A number of the people in my college are seen practicing picking locks during boring lectures.

      ... the rest are seen picking noses?

    9. Re:Noticed the trend as well by kaitou · · Score: 1

      Could you enlighten us on the proper way then? ;)

    10. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Igmuth · · Score: 1
      You will never "lock in" a single digit of a PIN combination on one a electronic combination lock by running through numbers. What you will do is send through a bunch of alarms to the guard.
      The thing the amuses me even more about those movies, is they will spend 5 minutes cycling through the various (10) combinations for the last digit.
    11. Re:Noticed the trend as well by tsg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You will never "lock in" a single digit of a PIN combination on one a electronic combination lock by running through numbers. What you will do is send through a bunch of alarms to the guard.

      Classic blunder from "War Games": Joshua trying to crack the nuclear missile launch codes and locking in digits of the code. "He's got four numbers. Another 5 minutes and he'll have all of them!" This is a security system, not MasterMind(tm).

      --
      People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
    12. Re:Noticed the trend as well by crucini · · Score: 1

      To clarify, what you friend did with a shelf bracket wasn't picking. It was shimming. He probably inserted the bracket between door and jamb and used it to retract a latchbolt. This usually means the hardware is installed wrong. Most locksets have a trigger bolt which is depressed by the strike plate, thereby deadlocking the latch bolt. If the gap is too large, or the wrong strike is installed, the trigger bolt is not adequately depressed.

      Picking means simulating the action of a key in the keyhole via instruments.

    13. Re:Noticed the trend as well by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      My apartments are like that. Some of the mat least. I know because I and my roommates have gotten into our rooms with a credit card several different times. I think our doors and locks are just cheap, but I know of some rooms where there's not enough gap to work a shim in to get the latch open

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    14. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know movies aren't real, right?

    15. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you enlighten us on the proper way then? ;)
      Dead easy.

      BISHOP : Anybody remember how to defeat an electronic keypad?
      INT. SNEAKER VAN.
      WHISTLER : Uh oh.
      CREASE : Don't even joke about that, Martin. Those things are impossible.
      BISHOP : Think I'm joking? Looks like they just put it in.
      CREASE : Oh boy!
      MOTHER : Here, maybe this might help. An old buddy of mine that was in Desert Storm sent it to me. Of course, he was on the other side. He hands Crease a manual.
      BISHOP (over radio) : Come on, Crease, there's got to be a way around these things!
      CREASE: All right, all right. This might work.

      INT. COOLIDGE INSTITUTE HALLWAYS.
      Bishop listens carefully to Crease's detailed and lengthy instructions.

      BISHOP : Yeah... yeah... above... yeah... right... uh huh... uh huh... yeah... right... yeah... Okay. I'll give it a shot.

      Bishop kicks the door open with one good boot.

    16. Re:Noticed the trend as well by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Don't try. Or, if you have to, try to go around the thing. Realistically though, sneaking past a half decent electronic security system is going to be nigh impossible. Between door alarms, window break sensors, motions sensors, etc. you're not going to sneak onto or off a secure military base undetected, unless the gurads are being really lax and/or bought off.
      A good example of this is a Sentrax unit. Basically, is a long cable that is burried in an area you want to monitor. Any time someone crosses a cable, an alarm is sent. With a properly meandering cable, and a half decent knowledge of the cable layout, and other sensors in an area, a person can be loosely tracked as they move through an area. If you'll remember back about a year or so, there was the guy who walked into part of one of the nuclear research bases, and made a big deal out of it. In the end, he was in an unsecured outlieing building, if he had really tried to penetrate the base, he would have been caught.
      Truth is, electronic security has been very good for quite some time. It does have its faults; for example, if you know where to drill, and set pins to hold the cabinet tamper switches. Then, break the lock on the cabinet (not hard), and are very careful and quick with switching the alarm loop wires with the correct resistors (Big PITA), you might go undetected. Of course, this assumes that you can get close to the cabinet, which is probably behind the same type of security you want to get past by disabling it, which puts you firmly in a catch-22.
      The only other method would be to hack the server remotely, and disable its ability to monitor and report alarms. Granted, this will usually send up an alarm at a monitoring station, but if done just right, and with an intamate knowledge of the software (much more than I have), this could be avoided. Also, this assumes that you can get past the networks perimiter defenses, many of which include such feature's as A) Being on an unconnected LAN, a.k.a. No internet connection. Though this is changing. Or, B) Stilling running IBM's OS/2 (Warp 3, 4 and 4.5), with IPX as the only network protocol. This is also changing, when I left the industry, OS/2 was being killed off, and the switch was being made to Windows 2000 (heck, the last TurboDOS based system that was in the field was only replaced about a year and a half ago).
      In the end, getting past this stuff (without inside help) is the stuff of movies (and I still enjoy them). Trying to get past it in real life is more an exercise in futility and being arrested/shot.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    17. Re:Noticed the trend as well by tsg · · Score: 1

      You do know movies aren't real, right?

      Yes. I just think it's interesting how often they rely on their audience's ignorance to tell the story, especially when the story hinges on some incredibly important, and entirely wrong, premise.

      --
      People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
  5. Be patient... by switcha · · Score: 4, Funny
    The author put his e-mail address on the back of the book. He hasn't responded to my e-mail yet, but I suppose that he's probably a busy man.

    No, he just lost his password for checking his email.

    --
    You know what? ... A little club soda *did* get that out!
    1. Re:Be patient... by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 1

      Funniest post I've read in months. thanks :)

  6. fun links about lock vulnerabily by knowles420 · · Score: 3, Informative
    bikeforums.net's thread on picking the kryptonite U-locks with a bic pen tube.

    quicktime movie of the same.

    --
    -knowles
  7. Legal issues by alienw · · Score: 5, Informative

    In DC, basic possession of lockpicking instruments is illegal, unless you are a licensed locksmith. You don't have to prove intent. This is the same in many other states. Be careful and don't do anything stupid.

    1. Re:Legal issues by LurkerXXX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mod parent up. I got into it a long time ago, and found out when you take trips to certain states/districts, leave the picks at home!

    2. Re:Legal issues by idontgno · · Score: 5, Insightful
      And, given the inevitable but accurate comparisons between lockpicking and system/network hacking, how long before basic possession of network-hacking tools (unsanctioned non-"trusted"/non-DRM computers, etc.) and skills is also inherently illegal, intent be damned?

      Sigh. How far from cyberpunk dystopia are we now?

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    3. Re:Legal issues by jdray · · Score: 2, Funny

      So everyone should stop carrying Bic pens?

      --
      The Spoon
      Updated 6/28/2011
    4. Re:Legal issues by severoon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, this became true in CA a few years ago as well. This seems sort of ridiculous to me...how can they outlaw lockpicks? They're just tools--it's like outlawing crowbars because they're afraid someone will use them for evil.

      Anyway, in most states that have outlawed them, you can still get your hands on them by simply registering and passing the test to become a "licensed locksmith". This doesn't necessarily mean you have to hold yourself out as a business, either. It just means you passed some test and registered with the state so you can carry around your lockpick set. I've been thinking about doing this off and on, because in college I lived with a guy from Caltech for a summer, so I of course had a window into lockpicking as a result and it caught my interest.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    5. Re:Legal issues by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Funny thing about that requirement. About 10-12 years ago, I knew a guy who went through the trouble to become a licensed locksmith. Then he could legally carry lockpicks. He would use those lockpicks to rip off vending and gambling machines.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    6. Re:Legal issues by zangdesign · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. I may have to rethink my mild opposition to guns in light of the amount of information out there teaching some waste of DNA to pick my household locks.

      --
      To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
    7. Re:Legal issues by Cygnusx12 · · Score: 1

      There are exceptions to these laws for Police as well as fire and ambulance crews. (Which I'm sure also vary from state to state).

    8. Re:Legal issues by dougmc · · Score: 1
      how can they outlaw lockpicks? They're just tools
      Laws do not always make sense. For example, in Texas (or just Austin?), Wire cutters can not be carried in your pocket.

      Lawmakers will happily outlaw owning certain tools if they feel it's in their interests to do so, and often groups will lobby them to make sure it's in their interests.

    9. Re:Legal issues by wattersa · · Score: 1

      In DC, basic possession of lockpicking instruments is illegal, unless you are a licensed locksmith.

      same in CA. But those laws, like many minor offenses, are only on the books so the authorities can e.g. violate a parolee when they search him and find the lockpicking tools on him, or so the prosecutor can enhance someone's sentence (a.k.a. "throw the book" at someone). Stay under the radar of the criminal justice system and you don't have to worry as much.

    10. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when outlaws have lockpicks, even homeowners get guns?

    11. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      how long before basic possession of network-hacking tools ... and skills is also inherently illegal, intent be damned?

      1) There are no laws whatsoever making possession of any skills illegal. At least not yet.

      2) You seen to have conveniently forgotten the part about "unless you are a licensed locksmith." If network-hacking tools were covered under similar laws, I'd assume there would be similar licenses to allow for legal uses. That might actually be a good thing...

      3) Don't you folks get tired of crying "the sky is falling" at every feeble opportunity?

    12. Re:Legal issues by ParamonKreel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I believe that if you are registered, and then caught using the tools to steal stuff, the penalty is much much stiffer than it would normally be.

    13. Re:Legal issues by James+Turpin · · Score: 1

      So you either become registered with the state, or you use tools that were not specially made for lock picking.

      --
      Mathematics is not a crime.
    14. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Consider yourself lucky...I know in some places that carrying a crowbar can be considered illegal. It's called "a tool of breaking" or something like that, and you can be charged for it, same as carrying a lockpick

    15. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In CA its only illegal if you have intent to commit a crime with them.. This is covered by penal code section 466-469.

      http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?cod es ection=pen&codebody=466&hits=20
      or
      http://tinyur l.com/3kvjr

    16. Re:Legal issues by pinkfalcon · · Score: 1

      I don't know about police, but fire and ambulance crews don't worry about locks. The basic lockpick a fire crew carries is about 4 feet long and is usually called by it's other name, an axe. Ambulance crews carry either a rescue hammer (available at www.galls.com, comes with a seatbelt cutter in the handle) or a spring loaded center punch - originally a carpentry tool, but when applied to safety glass like windshields, it causes the glass the shatter in small chunks. I've used it once on a missing hikers car to get a scent article for the dog team - worked like a champ.

      --
      Real SUV's don't have cupholders
      It's 5:42 A.M., do you know where your stack pointer is?
    17. Re:Legal issues by mad.frog · · Score: 1

      And so, in light of this new knowledge, possession of Bic pens must now also be illegal....

    18. Re:Legal issues by Kehvarl · · Score: 2, Funny

      1) probably a valid point
      2) probably a valid point
      3) no
      4) profit

    19. Re:Legal issues by Jackboot · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just remember: you can pick your friends, and you can pick your locks, but you can't pick your friends' locks.

    20. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't forget the Jaws of Life. That works pretty good on door locks-- well doors anyway.

      On using the spring loaded punch-- put contact paper on the window first, that way most of the glass stays together and there's less to clean up or more importantly, cut someone.

    21. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "This seems sort of ridiculous to me...how can they outlaw lockpicks? They're just tools--it's like outlawing crowbars because they're afraid someone will use them for evil."

      Seriously? This is how: "They", which is Us, get sufficiently fed up with break-ins and theft that we pass laws to reduce it.

      And crowsbars *are* outlawed in certain circumstances. Check your local. There may well be one on the books about "break and enter tools". It'll have time and place restrictions on it. It's designed so that when the patrol officers grab a punk with pry bars out back of your house at 1 a.m., they've got something that'll stick on him immediately. While not nailing the tradesman getting home from sealing up a window smashed by a brick downtown.

      Can it be abused? You bet! That's why you have lawyers and court overview as part of the system. Or we did. And there's the real issue about laws today: awful lot without court overview lately. That's insane.

      I don't wish to be rude, but you sound rather young. Or live in a very nice area. In the latter case check to see if you have those laws and consider that they may well be part of the reason you've got such peace of mind.

    22. Re:Legal issues by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "...how can they outlaw lockpicks?"

      What, pray tell, would be the reason for you to own lockpicking tools? Hmmm? Maybe to pick locks? No, they're not just tools. They are tools specifically designed to circumvent someone's locks.

    23. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, Watergate seems to be a good place to find other people interested in lockpicking.

    24. Re:Legal issues by snwcrash · · Score: 1

      I'm going to guess that actual prosecutions or even arrests for having lockpicks are rare. It would probably be in conjunction with another crime (like loitering in front of a place you were planning on breaking into).

      --
      Save a life, sign your organ donor card.
    25. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, pray tell, would be the reason for you to own a penis? Hmmm? Maybe to rape women? No, it's not just a part of your body. It is a tool specifically designed to penetrate vaginas.

    26. Re:Legal issues by zangdesign · · Score: 1

      Nothing stops some little miscreant from breaking into your house like a shotgun blast upside the head.

      --
      To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
    27. Re:Legal issues by Lord_Raptor · · Score: 1

      If someone, somewhere uses a lock to protect some copyrighted materials, wouldn't anything to do with lock picking violate the DMCA, since it's so broadly worded. So, wouldn't it be illegal in all states?

    28. Re:Legal issues by here4fun · · Score: 1

      You should check out the MIT guide to lockpicking. They have contests, and leave parts of campus locked for students to "crawl around" and break in. Somehow I can't see that on the west coast. Not disciplined enough. :p

    29. Re:Legal issues by Dahan · · Score: 1
      For example, in Texas (or just Austin?), Wire cutters can not be carried in your pocket.

      ahajokes.com? I would hardly consider a joke site a credible source about the law :P

      I did a quick search of Texas law and Austin city ordinances and didn't find any such prohibition.

    30. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this became true in CA a few years ago as well. This seems sort of ridiculous to me...how can they outlaw lockpicks? They're just tools--it's like outlawing crowbars because they're afraid someone will use them for evil.

      You mean, like how California and other states/cities/whatever bans guns? So many /.ers seem to highly approve of such bans when it's something they don't particularly like themselves, but go through the roof otherwise.

      Please no stupid "But lockpicks don't kill people!" responses, as they'll only prove you can't read.

    31. Re:Legal issues by Deanalator · · Score: 1

      "And, given the inevitable but accurate comparisons between lockpicking and system/network hacking, how long before basic possession of network-hacking tools (unsanctioned non-"trusted"/non-DRM computers, etc.) and skills is also inherently illegal, intent be damned?"

      I've been wondering how long it's going to be before programs like that become protected under the second ammendment. The general concept is the same, the reason it was put there was so the govt wouldnt be able to monopolize on power, as was the case in many other countries at the time.

    32. Re:Legal issues by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      In the UK, it seems that one needs a licence to be a security consultant. Private Security Industry Act 2001.

    33. Re:Legal issues by Volmarias · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up, +1 informative and +1 funny (pick at random)

    34. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What, pray tell, would be the reason for you to own lockpicking tools? Hmmm? Maybe to pick locks? No, they're not just tools. They are tools specifically designed to circumvent someone's locks.
      Yes, my locks. No law says I have to use a key to open my own lock.
    35. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this really pisses me off. I lived in Amsterdam a couple of years ago and had fun taking lockpicking classes there (any ever heard of the Hippies from Hell?) I was moving back to the states and checked the laws regarding lock picks and discovered the DC law. Since I had a layover there, I didn't bring the picks back with me. Now I have to make my own :/

    36. Re:Legal issues by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but going to jail for shooting an intruder helps the next little miscreant. And it happens too.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    37. Re:Legal issues by bob+beta · · Score: 1

      You can have fun explaining that to the other people in your jail cell. They have a great sense of humor and will enjoy your company.

    38. Re:Legal issues by 7hrs4sec · · Score: 1
      Thanks to the US Patriot Act: you, me, and everyone who's read this thread now has a file at the FBI.

      Smile and say cheese for Ashcroft!

    39. Re:Legal issues by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Yes, they are designed to pick locks. Any pin tumbler locks. They should outlaw paper clips too. They are tools of the devil. Thank the lord that we have the government to protect us from our tools.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    40. Re:Legal issues by dougmc · · Score: 1
      It's a legitimate law, in spite of the first site that google gave me that talks about it being a joke site -- there's a lot more sites out there if you want to look yourself.

      It may not be the law anymore, but it was the law at one point, and I mentioned it just to suggest that silly laws have been found on the books before.

    41. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What, pray tell, would be the reason for you to own lockpicking tools?

      The exact same reason as scanning for open ports on my own system - to make sure any locks and/or firewall software I use are actually secure.

      Or do you want me to just trust a vendor like Kryptonite without ever questioning how vulnerable the locks are?

    42. Re:Legal issues by devnullify · · Score: 1

      Are you trying to say that lockpicks exist to kill people?

    43. Re:Legal issues by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      Not very far. We've got massive government corruption, corporations buying legislation, powerful firearms on the street (arguably a good thing), and nifty techie frobnicators.

      We're almost there, really.

    44. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lockpicking is rarely used to gain entry to a house. It's a specialized skill, only useful when you want to leave no trace. Your average theif has neither the skill, the patience, nor the motivation to pick a lock when they can just smash a window or kick down a door.

    45. Re:Legal issues by severoon · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly...to pick locks. That's why I'd want to own them. So what's wrong with that?

      You're making the assumption that I'd pick the wrong locks, and therefore prohibit me from having them in the first place. Apparently, America to you is a place where I have to prove that I'm not going to break the law, and only then should I be allowed to do something. I live in a different place that gives its citizens the benefit of the doubt until they actually do something wrong.

      This same assumption of yours could be make for glass cutters, screwdrivers, crowbars, bolt cutters, wrenches...where do we draw the line? Maybe we shouldn't sell circular saws to people since Dahmer used them to dismember his victims. We live in a free society. If I want to carry spray paint or wire cutters around in my pocket, I should be allowed to do that. Carrying something that has possibly useful, legal uses, in principle, should not be treated as a crime.

      Now if you catch me doing something illegal with any of those things, prosecute, prosecute, prosecute. But by passing laws that we selectively enforce against thug-looking black kids but not middle-aged white tradesmen, we have not solved any problems at all. (The thug-looking black kid, by the way, was doing voluntary community work and spray painting the new equipment in the local playground, free of charge. The middle-aged white tradesman, on the other hand, was using his wire cutters to splice into his next door neighbor's cable. Just in case you were wondering...)

      Sure, we can outlaw lockpicks. I heard that one of the wire bristles from a street sweeping machine can be bent into a pretty fine lockpick. Should we outlaw stiff pieces of wire while we're at it? How about lighters? And what possible legal use could anyone have for a box cutter, or a Swiss Army knife?

      I demand consistency in my laws. Consistency that says we better not outlaw a chunk of metal that's bent into a particular shape if there's a potentially useful purpose. Consistency in the enforcement of laws, too, meaning that we shouldn't pass laws with the expectation that everyone will break them, and we'll just cherry pick the "undesirables" (each authority figure can make up their own definition of this term, by the way) and hassle them.

      What's funny about your attitude is that you think criminals can't get their hands on a good lockpick set. Well, I can't, because I'm law abiding. They can, though...just ask the next cop you see how many they've seen their department confiscate.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    46. Re:Legal issues by severoon · · Score: 1

      "They", which is Us, get sufficiently fed up with break-ins and theft that we pass laws to reduce it.
      I have two words for this argument: source, please. To my knowledge, these are politically expedient ways for do-nothing bureaucrats to show that they're "tough on crime." These laws actually have very little effect...in most cases where the police on the beat invoke them, they usually end up having to let the suspect go because they lack any real evidence. Except in the cases where they push it to the ridiculous extreme and try to prosecute the suspect for quite literally carrying some kind of tool. This, in the absence of any evidence whatsoever connecting that person to an actual crime, is a travesty of justice. So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh?

      And crowsbars *are* outlawed in certain circumstances. Check your local.
      Yes I know this. I thought I was picking a real-life example that was sufficiently absurd. Apparently not.

      It's designed so that when the patrol officers grab a punk with pry bars out back of your house at 1 a.m., they've got something that'll stick on him immediately.
      Again, these silly laws are politically expedient but useless. You may wish to familiarize yourself with the laws governing probable cause, because these would entitle police to detain such a suspect while they determined whether he was committing a crime. Again, if they find no other evidence to support such a hypothesis and the law is to be sensible, they'd have to let him go anyway.

      Can it be abused? You bet! That's why you have lawyers and court overview as part of the system.
      Courts exist to interpret and enforce the law equally for all people. There's some leeway in the interpretation, but they can't legislate from the bench--if a law says wire cutters are illegal and a cop arrested a tradesman for having wire cutters because of a personal grudge, the courts would have to support that action because it's on the law books. Of course, they could strike it down as being unconstitutional, which would be the sensible thing to do, but then the law wouldn't exist for anyone else, either. No, the courts do not exist to enforce silly laws subjectively. They exist to enforce sensible, Constitutional laws objectively (justice is blind, and all that).

      I don't wish to be rude, but you sound rather young. Or live in a very nice area. In the latter case check to see if you have those laws and consider that they may well be part of the reason you've got such peace of mind.
      Ah, the subtle ad hom! Haven't seen one of those try to sneak by in a while... In any case, these laws do not serve my peace of mind, they serve the peace of mind of lazy politicians that want to project a certain image without actually having to do anything. If you want to see how to deal with crime, look at what Guiliani did in New York. He certainly didn't push any laws like this through the legislature, so how do you account for his success?
      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    47. Re:Legal issues by StressedEd · · Score: 1

      This same assumption of yours could be make for glass cutters, screwdrivers, crowbars, bolt cutters, wrenches...where do we draw the line?

      Assault weapons?

      --
      Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
    48. Re:Legal issues by squaretorus · · Score: 1

      Realistically - how likely are you to get caught with these things assuming they are already in your possession?

      I could have had a human head in the glove box of my car or my freezer for the past 10 years without problem - because no one in authority has had cause or the right to look in there. I don't have a human head in my glovebox by the way. Its a monkeyhead!

    49. Re:Legal issues by pete-classic · · Score: 1
      They're just tools--it's like outlawing crowbars because they're afraid someone will use them for evil.


      Yup. Just like firearms.

      -Peter
    50. Re:Legal issues by Naikrovek · · Score: 1

      your monkeyhead is safe.

      if your glovebox or trunk is locked, they cannot look in them without a warrant. gloveboxes are fairly private if you're an informed citizen.

    51. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure? Can you (or anyone) post the relevant code or statute? I've carried my picks in CA for years with full confidence that they were legal to possess. Some TSA agent gave me trouble in a CA airport once, and we ended up involving the police, who said it was perfectly legal to possess them.

      It is illegal (see Penal Code section 466) to possess such instruments with intent to use them to commit a crime. IANAL, but I assume this is just used to add an extra offense on top of a crime committed with the tools. Or does someone know of a case where intent was established in the absence of another crime?

    52. Re:Legal issues by severoon · · Score: 1

      I think that weapons are a slightly different issue than tools. Weapons are specifically designed to hurt people--you can't do much else with a gun. Sure, you can do biathalons and shoot targets for fun and hunt...but these are recreational activities, diversions. This makes a slight distinction given the potential for harm due to misuse as opposed to a crowbar, which has a thousand legitimate, non-frivolous ("used in pursuit of diversions or hobbies") uses.

      Keep in mind that I'm making this argument for all weapons, and I realize that there's a sliding scale of weaponry over which this argument applies to varying degrees. Specifically, I think it applies in proportion to the harm the weapon can cause. To illustrate the extreme example, I don't think anyone believes that average citizens should be allowed to carry around suitcase nukes or other weapons of mass destruction, privately own functioning tanks, have access to land mines, etc. Handguns, on the other hand, I think are on the side of this spectrum to which my above argument does not apply--there is some credible evidence that conceal'n'carry laws for handguns actually decrease the overall amount of harm done to people.

      Clearly, somewhere on the spectrum between BB guns and nukes we have to draw the line, and I'll admit I'm not quite sure exactly where that line ought to be (high-powered rifles, semi-auto "assault" weapons, fully-auto "assault" weapons, dynamite...I'm not sure if it's ok for regular citizens to own these things because I haven't thought about it at a deep level yet, but until I do I'd err on the side of freedom until I'm convinced otherwise). In any case, the simple act of defining the spectrum to encompass all weapons from BB guns to nukes shows that, whatever your opinion on gun control, you and I are a lot closer than we are far apart.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    53. Re:Legal issues by StressedEd · · Score: 1
      I think that weapons are a slightly different issue than tools. Weapons are specifically designed to hurt people

      That was my point. It was a retorical question. Looking back at my post I realise the subtlty of that was "lost in translation" ;-).

      is some credible evidence that conceal'n'carry laws for handguns actually decrease the overall amount of harm done to people.

      That implies there is a lot of incredible evidence. Do you have any actual evidence (independent reports) to back this up or are you just repeating what other people tell you?

      I do I'd err on the side of freedom until I'm convinced otherwise.

      What do you define as freedom? I realise that this is opening a can of worms. Defining "freedom" however is important as I feel many of these issues flow directly from it. I assume you mean political freedom rather than freedom of will? (*)

      If so, I follow the line (paraphrasing Sartre I think, though I hope the alert Philosophy student will step in to point me to the appropriate text) that:

      "Individual personal freedom should be limited to the extent that it does not restrict the personal freedom of others."


      So: Owning a gun is fine, you just can't use it to shoot people. Or, taken to the extreme [for governments rather than individuals], owning Nukes is fine, you just mustn't use them.

      Well, Duh! [As the well known modern Philosopher Homer would say] ;-)

      Another example is smoking, a pet favourite of mine. To place this in context (there is always a context) I am a fervent anti-smoker. I hate it. It's a foul habit that I loath at different levels.

      From that you may those statements you may think that I am some crazed anti-smoking zelot. Not so. Following the paraphrased quote above I feel people should be free to smoke providing it does not impinge upon other peoples personal freedom to "not inhale" (2) their smoke (amongst other things).

      Of course, if one has a different view of political freedom then the conclusions will be different. I guess that's what condems me to be a liberal.

      -sigh-

      --------
      (*) Freedom of will is another matter entirely. There I do tend towards the, somewhat abstract notion that we are all "condemmned to be free".

      (2) Please excuse the comic reference to Bill Clinton, it's a cheap shot. I just couldn't help myself!
      --
      Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
    54. Re:Legal issues by PenguiN42 · · Score: 1

      Sure. Now just come up with a clear definition of "assault weapons" that can categorize any gun you find into either "assault weapon" or "non-asault weapon" in a way that makes sense with no ambiguity. Oh yeah, and this definition needs to come along with a clear explanation as to why *exactly* all the guns in the "assault weapon" category you've invented should be outlawed, while all the guns outside of that category should be legal.

      Good luck. It's more than the writers of the Assault Weapons Ban could do.

      --
      The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
    55. Re:Legal issues by StressedEd · · Score: 1
      Sure:
      [warning - rampent sillyness]
      Assault Weapon -> Any weapon, that contains moving parts or is greater than 4cm in its greatest dimension. (Allows small penknives, bioweapon agents and nothing much else)
      [/warning]

      :->

      It's a slow day.

      I didn't think there was a ban on such weapons any more.

      Come on children "get them while they are still hot".

      (I do agree with your point by the way. It's a general problem with all law making designed to curtail a particular action/item/practice. First define it without allowing any loopholes...)

      --
      Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
    56. Re:Legal issues by severoon · · Score: 1

      That implies there is a lot of incredible evidence. Do you have any actual evidence (independent reports) to back this up or are you just repeating what other people tell you?

      "[I]ncredible evidence"? You haven't exactly given me a charitable reading that presents my viewpoint in the best possible (or even the intended) light. If someone said to me that there's "some credible evidence" backing a particular conclusion, I would not take that to mean there's lots of incredible evidence and thus only a silly person would believe that conclusion. What I did intend to say was that, while my mind is open on exactly where the line should be drawn on this spectrum, I think the pro-gun lobby makes a better case for handguns than the anti-gun lobby makes against them.

      In any case, it's controversial because it's one of those issues that's difficult to study--specifically, it's difficult to define controls in these studies that are acceptable to everyone. Plunging ahead, my thoughts on this issue are partially informed by simply comparing violent gun incidents (injuries and deaths due to the intentional violent use of firearms) in states that have conceal'n'carry (Texas, for example) to those that do not. I say "partially informed" because this statistic is specifically chosen to throw into sharp relief the benefit of conceal'n'carry laws, so it intentionally does not take into account injuries and deaths due to accidents or misuse, only those incidents involving a crime. The argument backing the pro-gun position says that criminals are less likely to attempt an aggravated crime of any kind if conceal'n'carry is allowed and there is a high enough percentage of citizens in the area that use it, and the facts seem to back this up.

      I've heard several arguments from the anti-gun lobby that attempt to explain these numbers away, the most convincing of which (in my judgment) is the one having to do with population density. This argument contends that these statistics can only be extended to cover areas that have fairly low population densities; there's no reason to think that such laws would have a similar result in major metropolitan areas. I recognize that this argument does pose some serious questions to pro-gun people that would try to pass these laws in densely populated areas. However, this anti-gun argument has some problems of its own: (1) it seems to concede the point that conceal'n'carry laws are good for low population areas, yet this is rarely the position of the arguer in the face of such a concession, and (2) while we have no data that contradicts this anti-gun argument, neither do we have any that supports it; we've never actually tried conceal'n'carry in major metropolitan areas, so at its very best this argument is far from conclusive.

      So the truly independent information I can find (state crime statistics) seems to support the pro-gun argument, at least applied to the proper populations. Even looking at biased information provided by sources intended to harm the pro-gun position, when that information is properly read, doesn't do much to contradict my conclusions. The statistics cited at the beginning of Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine, when placed in a fair context (i.e., not the misleading context supplied by the movie) support the notion that strictly anti-gun countries fare no better than the United States [see section 6 of source, and in particular these two links referred to therein: 1 2].

      Also, we must keep in mind that while it's fun to argue numbers and debate the applicability and meaning of statistics, there may be a more fundamental issue of Constitutional rights at play in this discussion. In other words, even if the statistics bear out that prevalent gun ownership is more dangerous, it might simply be the cost of exe

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    57. Re:Legal issues by StressedEd · · Score: 1

      I am rather busy at the moment but will reply to your point properly soon.

      It's gratifying to get involved in a decent discussion on this place for a change - but rather time consuming. In case I don't reply before these pages become static or by the Wednesday of next week, please prod me via e-mail (I cannot contact you as your e-mail is not public).

      -ed

      --
      Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
    58. Re:Legal issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh shit. Are you trying to tell me it's illegal to keep a human head in your car? I have one hanging from the rearview mirror. I don't want to break the law though, so I'll move it somewhere else if I have to.

  8. I Was Going To Review This Book... by Chaotic+Evil+Cleric · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ... but I locked my copy in my dad's safe and now I can't remember the combination.

  9. Who can beat this?!!! by Thud457 · · Score: 3, Funny
    My first task at the first job I ever had that required a security clearance was to pick a lock.


    It was on a removable HD tray that jammed, but the story's better when I leave that part out.
    You believe me, right? I posted it on slashdot!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:Who can beat this?!!! by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1
      I had to get into the cases of a dozen or so surplus PCs, which we had no case lock keys for any more. They were old Siemens-Nixdorf ones, where the lock was quite hard to get at, and physically locked the lid in place. The PHB was going mental, trying to get Siemens to supply him with keys, etc.


      Now, those of you who have read a few of my posts may recall that I do a lot of work on cars. So, out to the car park, into the boot of my car, and out with the angle grinder. It *did* take a long time to cut the lock heads off - and it did scuff up the back of the case a little. The locks were made of extremely hard steel, but nothing the old noisy spanner couldn't get off...

    2. Re:Who can beat this?!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One early job (that required a security clearance) I showed up in the office and my desk was locked. When I asked about office keys I was told that everyone in that office could pick their locks, and I should learn also (a odd source of pride in that group). So one guy taught me, and within a few days I could use my desk.

      Not only did you have to pick them open, but you had to pick it closed, because leaving your desk unlocked overnight was a security violation (even though the office was inside a vaulted area). Think about it--that was the best part!

      My first AC posting. Wow.

  10. So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Like computer hacking, the primary value to most people is not learning how to hack, but learning how to make things more hack-proof.

    So does this book have any recommendations along those lines? What door locks, deadbolts, padlocks, bike locks, etc, follow the locksmith version of "best security practices"?

    That, IMHO, is the REALLY important thing to discuss!

    1. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by dr_dank · · Score: 2, Informative

      So does this book have any recommendations along those lines? What door locks, deadbolts, padlocks, bike locks, etc, follow the locksmith version of "best security practices"?

      It seems that people in the hobby are reluctant to endorse brands. I saw Barry "The Key" Wels at HOPE this year. His presentation involved the pricey (and supposedly uber-secure) Medico locks and another brand of expensive lock that he agreed with the manufacturer to keep the brand name hidden during his talk.

      When his talk shifted to his CryptoPhone project, he politely sidestepped an audience member asking what kind of lock he had on the doors of CryptoPhone's offices.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    2. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some guy in Canada has started OpenLOCK.org and has only had one remote hole in 8 years!

    3. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience, the only secure lock is one that is kept in a locked room.

      Rinse and repeat.

    4. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 1
      I am under the general impression that any lock that's not shoddy (Master, perhaps?) will work for an application, because we're assuming that other people that have what you have haven't secured their stuff at all.

      It's why car thieves, between two Hondas, would rather go for the one without a Club (regardless of how useless it is) than the one with one. It's just easier.

      Of course, when it comes to choosing between an '87 Corolla and a clubbed Porsche, chances are the thief will go for the Porsche. At that point, I hope you have a satellite tracker...

    5. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Johnny+Hardcore · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The thing about picking locks is that the dreaded 'security through obscurity' is practiced even more than elsewhere. It's usually the case that many, many weak locks are used all over the place. But unlike bad software, if word gets out that a certain lock is vulnerable it's not a simple matter to simply patch it up. It's costly to replace all the locks after all. Thus, locksmiths are usually not willing to publicly blabber whatever secrets that may know (both to keep the obscurity going and because it keeps them in business).

      So to answer your question, I'm no lock expert but the only name that always comes to mind as a good lock maker is Medeco. I'm sure there's more, but I'm sure there's MANY MANY bad ones :)

      I want to learn how to pick locks so at least I can know which ones someone with the intelligence of a baboon (i.e. me) can beat. There must be a time when locks will have to be scrutinized more for robustness. Though locks aren't everything in security, but you're only as good as your weakest link.

    6. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by sgant · · Score: 2, Informative

      Medico is the way to go...also, very very few criminals resort to actually picking locks when a sledge hammer and a crow-bar work quicker.

      But medico is the way to go if you want an uber secure steel door with a steel frame set into concrete...but as with all things, the thing you would THINK is the weakest link in door security (like the lock) is actually the strongest. When you are thinking about installing a door, think the whole thing with frame along with the lock.

      Also, go low-tech also and a good steel bar across the bottom of the door stops many people...also stops with the kick-in.

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    7. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      There are several good locks. One is the Medeco (One version looks like a flat key with the teeth on the side, not the edge). Another is the Fischer lock (one version looks like a letter H, sort of like a double sided Key wielded to another double sided key).

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    8. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by halbert · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, it does discuss several options to better secure your locks, such as putting your deadbolt locks(which are as easy to pick as a padlock) upside-down, to prevent gravity from helping the lock picker. Not impossible to pick, but a LOT harder. Like the difference between hacking a windoze box and an OpenBSD box.(sorry, couldn't resist) The more expensive the lock, usually the harder it is to pick, because they cost more to make. Good book, I recommend it.

      --
      LOAD "SIG"

      RUN "SIG"

    9. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thus, locksmiths are usually not willing to publicly blabber whatever secrets that may know (both to keep the obscurity going and because it keeps them in business).

      1. Blabbing which locks don't work.
      2. Public buys new replacement locks
      3. Profit!

    10. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Sara+Chan · · Score: 2, Informative

      A Mul-T-Lock is supposed to be virtually unpickable.

    11. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Stradenko · · Score: 1

      Satellite tracker? The popular (lojack, http://www.lojack.com/what/index.cfm, for example) services use land/air-based radio location equipment for tracking. I suspect satellite equipment would be too expensive to maintain for this kind of purpose.

    12. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why waste time with the locks then, usually your first floor windows are your weakest link in security for the home.

      and at the office, well, all those glass doors.

      besides a thief doesn't need to deal with locks in many cases anyway. a family restaurant i visited frequantly was robbed. the thief busted a hole in the roof, went to the safe, broke the cement the safe was embeded in and ran out the front door with it, triping the alarm on his way out.

    13. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unless it comes with your car.

      OnStar anyone?

      If it's on the 'Net, a portland, OR radio station did a great spoof of the OnStar commercials. It was called "ProStar", and the one with Tanya Harding calling in was pretty funny.

    14. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...which would imply that an outward-opening door is probaby a bit more secure.

      Which is why they're now code in Florida. Helps keep hurricane-force winds from blowing them in. Of course, if the windows get blown in it, it is kind of a wasted excercise, so...

    15. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by nanojath · · Score: 2, Informative

      Really all locks are vulnerable - locks are sort of like DRM or encryption - there has to be a protocol to get through the security and protocols can be hacked. In general there are three issues with locks: the complexity of the mechanism (that reduces the effectiveness of hacks, i.e. a five number combo is better than a three number against simply trying every combo), the precision and quality of the engineering (i.e a lot of cheap combo cable locks are vulnerable to very simple hacks of "feeling out" the combo hot spots caused by cheap, poor engineering - most lock packs including picking are aided by "play" in the mechanism itself, which is exploited), and the strength and quality of the securing (versus the locking) mechanism (to resist against brute force attack, far and away the most common way theives get past locks: they simply break them. It's hard to make a mechanism that a two inch piece of metal can open truly strong).

      There's no simple answer. Ask a locksmith for help chosing the best bet for a particular job and be prepared to spend some money because top quality locks are expensive. And remember for the most part locks keep honest people honest and at best deter, slow or diver thieves (number one way thieves enter domiciles is doors and windows left open. Number two is straight force i.e. the swift kick or broken window).

      Years ago I lived in a crummy apartment and there were a bunch of storage rooms past renters had put padlocks on and then abandoned. I was to clear these out for current renters. None of the locks were top of the line but they ranged from hardware store cheapies that cost a couple dollars to heavy duty name brands that might have been upwards of ten. In each case I opened the lock by inserting a short iron prybar about 3/4 inch diameter between the shackle and the body and just wrenching the shackle right out of the body of the lock. I was amazed by how easy it was with a little force and leverage, and not caring that I was wrecking the lock.

      --

      It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

    16. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by nanojath · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I forgot the approach they took at a warehouse where my brother worked, where empty containers (i.e. semi trailers) often came locked with a padlock the key for which was long lost. They called it the BFH - The Big F'ing Hammer. A solid hit destroyed most padlocks.

      --

      It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

    17. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Stradenko · · Score: 1

      Onstar's website claims otherwise:

      Q. How does OnStar work?

      A. OnStar uses existing emergency service providers, cellular telephone and satellite technologies. It operates alongside the electrical system in your vehicle and is powered by your vehicle's battery. If your vehicle's battery is damaged or disconnected, our service will not function. Onstar currently uses the analog cellular network maintained by separate cellular companies. This provides the broadest geographic coverage of any current wireless system in the United States and Canada.

    18. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Informative

      Consumer Reports ran a battering ram into some locked doors. What gives first is the "strike plate", the usually flimsy piece of metal in the door frame that the bolt slides into.

      The first thing to do is to replace that with a reinforced strike plate anchored with long screws. The Mag 3 has a full bucket to enclose the bolt and transfer load to the rest of the strike plate, which has four screw holes. Use 3" long #10 wood screws (drill a pilot hole first) and you're solidly anchored to the studs.

      Then think about upgrading the lock. I have a hunch there are other brands as good as Medeco but less heavily promoted -- ask a locksmith. Medeco's engineering is brilliant, though.

      Remember to consider key control. One attack mechanism is for your housecleaner's drug-addicted boyfriend to duplicate your house key.

    19. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try this link. A good strike plate and door reinforcer are just as important.
      http://www.thenationallocksmith.com/Na tlock/public /huff_puff/index.cfm

      Rick DeBay

    20. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by currivan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Medeco is the most widespread "good" lock. They use a "2-dimensional" scheme where the pins have to be rotated to the right angle in addition to being at the right height. The key bumps are beveled, as are the pins, and unless they match, a sidebar can't slide in to release the cylinder.

      Another (which I own) is Mul-T-Lock, which uses 5 sets of two concentric pins, and a horizontal (actually just flat) instead of a vertical keyway. One locksmith I talked to said he'd once managed to pick a Medeco after playing with it for about ten hours in his office, but it's basically not a risk.

      That said, the real value of these locks isn't pick-resistance, since almost no one picks locks anyway. The real benefit is that they have features to resist drilling, longer bolts, anti-sawing bolts, and so forth. They also have keys that can't be duplicated except with special equipment, and then only by licensed dealers who will require you to provide the id card that came with the lock. So the valet won't be able to make a copy of your house keys at the corner hardware store.

      In general, people only pick locks if they don't want you to know they've broken in.

    21. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by WinterSolstice · · Score: 1

      Not really, for two reasons:

      1) Hinges

      2) Door frames

      For example, my WIFE (not the strongest person around) got locked out our house by accident, and thought she smelled smoke. She couldn't quickly find the keys, and so she just put the boot it. Two kicks later, she had completely destroyed the frame, as well as the surrounding frame. Turns out the smoke was nothing, BTW.

      Further example... a hotel in Monterey, Ca said "The door to this room sticks. Kick it if it does". So I did. A minute later, I found that it *did* stick. The whole damn frame (minus the piece where the hinges screw in) was on the floor of the hotel room. The manager was a bit miffed.

      So now, I say screw the lock. Boot the door.

      -WS

      --
      An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
    22. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      It works. Just tonight on the news the reported a caddy SUV that had been stolen from a local dealership was recovered a few hours and 60 miles away by using OnStar. The SUV was equipped with OnStar with a GPS. The cops called OnStar and found out exactly where the SUV was.

    23. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by mistersooreams · · Score: 1
      The more expensive the lock, usually the harder it is to pick, because they cost more to make
      You mean like Windows boxes are harder to hack than Linux boxes, because Windows cost more to make? Or would that contradict your tiresome and irrelevant Windows-bashing?
    24. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1
      So now, I say screw the lock. Boot the door.
      Yup.

      Some months ago, a visitor was taking a shower; he managed to totally unscrew the hot-water faucet handle. Now, what do I do when I have hot water gushing on the floor, and not a goddammed valve in reach? I rushed down the stairs to the basement entrance and puched the door, then was able to proceed to the water heater and shut-off the valve there.

      The landlord was glad to fix the door instead of having to pay for a new floor/ceiling/whatever is destroyed by the water damage...

    25. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by lewi · · Score: 1
      It's easier to answer which locks are not good, which includes nearly every simple pin tumbler based lock. Any lock that has a basic pin tumbler system can be picked unless the machining quality is excellent -- but then it just makes it a little more difficult to pick. Master keyed locks (hotels, businesses) are the easiest to pick because there is more than one sheer line available to line up the pins.

      Variations such as tapered pins or mushroom pins can make picking very difficult but still not impossible. Locks that use keys with angled cuts and rotate the pins are nearly impossible to pick. Locks that use top pins with side pins are also nearly impossible to pick.

      Medeco and Assa locks are considered unpickable because the variations on their pin systems require that someone get more than one wrench in the lock at a time to set each pin and there is simply no room to do it. Even if it was possible, there is no room left to move the pins.

      For most purposes, worrying about how "pickable" a lock is is futile. Most thiefs and burglars will just break the lock or door. If someone is going to pick a lock to gain entry then they will likely disturb as little as possible so that you won't even realize they were there. They might even lock the door back so that you'll never know someone had been there.

    26. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by halbert · · Score: 1
      The more expensive the lock, usually the harder it is to pick, because they cost more to make

      You mean like Windows boxes are harder to hack than Linux boxes, because Windows cost more to make? Or would that contradict your tiresome and irrelevant Windows-bashing?

      Gee, maybe you should read the post again, the quote you grabbed was after the analogy. What are you, a reporter? ;-)

      CLUE-> (Yes, I just bashed reporters for their ability to take quotes out of context and then use bad logic to come up with a false conclusion. Oh, and I just bashed you too, I guess, in a good natured way. See the smiley?)

      SECOND CLUE-> (The reason I put the words "sorry, couldn't resist" implies that my Windows bashing (not a hyphenated word, by the way) was meant to be "tiresome and irrelevant", but still a good analogy.);-)

      Not impossible to pick, but a LOT harder. Like the difference between hacking a windoze box and an OpenBSD box.(sorry, couldn't resist)

      --
      LOAD "SIG"

      RUN "SIG"

    27. Re:So what locks ARE good?!? by Mod+Me+God+Too · · Score: 1

      Can we lock you in it and stop your incessant sniping?

      --
      --

      It is not the commies, the government, the nigger, nor the corporates. It is your paranoia.
  11. practice? by TheMusicRebel · · Score: 2, Funny

    What? do you go to Home Depot to practice?

  12. Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by phyruxus · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There's a great bit in the book "Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman" where he (Feynman) talks about safe-cracking. His propensity for beating locks gets him called into a boss' office where a safe containing nuclear secrets (or something ridiculously important like that) sits, but no-one knows the combination. So he sits down at the thing, presses his ear to the door and starts listening, only to have the thing pop open on the first try.

    Everyone in the room goes "Ooooo! how did you do that? Are you really that good?" And he had the presence of mind to say, "Yes." =)

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
    "d'Oh!" ~Homer
    1. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by severoon · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, it didn't take long to get the Feynman reference into this discussion. How I love /.!

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    2. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by mekkab · · Score: 2, Informative

      I haven't read it in a while, but wasn't the combination the STOCK combination from the factory?!

      Feynman is my favorite wise-cracking, lock-hacking, bongo-playing, skirt-chasing Nobel physicist!

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    3. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. It was something like that. It was not luck at all. He knew the combination ahead of time.

    4. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by seestheday · · Score: 2, Interesting

      yes, it was 5,5,5 or something similar iirc. In the book he describes how most people just left the default combo in there. it's just like people having their bank passwords set to their name.

    5. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Read it again, dipstick. He never learned to pick locks by touch or sound, and as a matter of fact he found that it wasn't a necessary skill. He cracked combination locks by various methods which reduced the number of combinations which needed to be tried, and then used trial and error. IIRC he didn't crack the general's safe, but heard from another individual that the safe combination was set to the factory default (0-25-0 or 25-50-25).

    6. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by rjstanford · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I'm not mistaken, he talked about one of the safe's passwords being set to "e". He got the idea because he found a post-it with the 3.1415... written on it in the secretary's desk. That wasn't it, but he judged that the owner of the safe was exactly the kind of person to use that type of number - and tried the other obvious one. Which did the trick.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    7. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by iabervon · · Score: 1

      IIRC, you're confusing two stories. The time he got it on the first try was a regular office safe. The boss's safe he failed to crack, but someone else got it with the default combo. When he found out, he tried that on other safes and about a fifth were unchanged, but he didn't know about this trick until after the Manhatten Project.

      He also had the nervous habit of figuring out the last and second-to-last digits on the combo for an unlocked safe when he was in someone's office. He then hid notes of most of people's combos in the lock of his safe, so he could open his co-workers' safes in ~6 tries.

    8. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Euphonious+Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The safe in question was my aunt's father's. She said he didn't bother changing the combination because he knew it was all theater anyway, and the way spies would get secret documents was to get people who had them to hand them over. As it happened, he was right.

      She also said that he said General Groves was a real bastard.

    9. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by peacefinder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The poster confused two different stories into one.

      In one, Feynman had learned a technique to pick up the last number or two of the three-number combination from open file cabinets, and he also learned that one only had to be accurate to about +/- 3 on the dial. This allowed him to drastically reduce the number of guesses needed for a lock.

      He was telling a colleague about this, and they ducked into an office so he could demonstrate. Feynman already knew the last number for this particular lock, so he was saying something like... "so I can try out the numbers really quickly. Let's assume the first number is this [sets dial] and I'll check the second number like this..." and the lock opens almost immediately. He thinks fast and continues without pause "... and that's how it's done!" And they walk out, leaving everyone in the office gaping in shock. It was a lucky guess ont he first two numbers, but he didn't let on.

      In the other story, the Boss had a BIG safe installed, and after Manhattan was closing down they needed to get into it. People asked Feynman to try it, because of his reputation, and he said he would. (How could he refuse without destroying his rep?) He goes into the office, and it's open. Feynman eventually finds out (after many amusing diversions) that the base locksmith had opened it by trying the factory combination.

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
    10. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3.1415?

      Umm, e is 2.718281828459045 or so, whereas pi is 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 1058 or so. Yes, that IS how far I have them both memorized.

      This is Slashdot. I have no life.

    11. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1

      The really interesting (and scary) bit of that story was that instead of changing the combo, they made sure Feynman couldn't get to the safes anymore. That's national security for ya.

    12. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you reading the posts you're replying to, or just posting blindly?

    13. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Pinchy · · Score: 1

      it was 5,5,5 or something similar iirc

      Hey, I've got the same combination on my luggage.

    14. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Dahan · · Score: 1

      It was obviously a "HAY GUYS! LOOK AT HOW MANY PLACES OF pi AND e I CAN REMEMBER!111!!1!" post.

    15. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      He thinks fast and continues without pause "... and that's how it's done!" And they walk out, leaving everyone in the office gaping in shock.

      Completely off-topic story that this reminded me of:

      That happened to me once with a Microvax and its root password. Someone and I were about to leave the computer lab as the last people leaving, when on the spur of the moment I sat down and tried to login as root with a password I came up with on the fly.

      To my utter shock it actually worked.

      I was so stunned that I just logged out and left, shaking my head in utter astonishment. I'm not sure what the other person thought had just happened. I later thought briefly about leaving a note about insecure passwords, but remembered that people in such positions don't usually have a very good sense of humor about such things.

    16. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. Come back when you have them memorised in 16 different bases. Foo'

    17. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by WinterSolstice · · Score: 1

      Root password on a Microvax? I call BS :)

      --
      An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
    18. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by DeanAsh · · Score: 1
      Most people working at Los Alamos had safes for their work. They would arrive at the office, open the safe, get their work, and leave the empty safe open.

      The safes had a weakness in that the combinations could be twiddled out of them if left open. Feynman was a habitual "twiddler" - when he entered the office of a colleague to chat, he'd absently fiddle with the combination lock of the open safe. To the colleague, it looked harmless. Feynman was actually collecting combinations.

      This came in very handy on occasions, such as absent people leaving needed documents in their safes. Feynman would grab his toolbox, go sit in the closed office reading magazines for ten minutes (to build up tension), then spend thirty seconds opening the safe. This helped his reputation as a master lockpicker no end :)

      Feynman ended up suggesting to the General that everyone keep their safes closed at all times, even when nothing is in them, even when they're personally in their office with their open safe.

      The Generals' solution was to get everyone to change their combinations and to keep Feynman out of their offices! The security situation didn't improve.

      --
      What is the shortest sig that cannot be expressed in fewer than 20 words?
    19. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by squidinkcalligraphy · · Score: 1

      That happened to me once on a physics exam. Not having any idea about the answer to part a, but needing that answer to work out part b, I took a complete guess. Something like 2*10^-3. And got it right, to my surprise several months later.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
    20. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by cloudmaster · · Score: 1

      Isn't your aunt's father *your* grandfather (given that your aunt would be your mother or father's sister)? Why didn't you say "my cousin's father's wife's mother's husband" or something really circuitous, if you were gonna be circuitous at all? Or maybe this just isn't true to begin with...

    21. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      Root password on a Microvax? I call BS :)

      I take it you've never heard of Ultrix.

    22. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by |<amikaze · · Score: 1


      Not necessarily. Let's say my father has a brother, Bob. Bob marries Margaret. Margaret is my aunt. Margaret's father is not my grandfather.

    23. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by Markus+Registrada · · Score: 1
      Isn't your aunt's father *your* grandfather...?

      In fact, of my nine aunts' fathers, only two are my (lamented) grandfather. Precision in writing is nothing to be ashamed of, while careless reading habits are nothing to advertise.

    24. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by WinterSolstice · · Score: 1

      I've heard of Ultrix. I just find it as highly improbable that someone would be running that as to leave their root password something so easily guessed.

      Both point to a sick mind. Waste of good hardware. :)

      -WS

      --
      An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
    25. Re:Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman by cloudmaster · · Score: 1

      I generally don't count relations by marriage into the "aunt or uncle" group. Under that scheme, Bob's wife is just your uncle's wife, not your aunt. I feel justified in doing that, as some people have decided that "dinner" is the meal at the end fo the day, wheras "dinner" is actually defined as the "cheif" meal of the day, eaten at midday or evening. If common usage can redefine dinner, I think I should be able to redefine "aunt". :)

  13. Article at Howstuffworks.com by PHPee · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you're interested in learning a bit about lock picking, but aren't sure you want to spend $20 on this book yet, take a look at this article at Howstuffworks.com.

    It offers a great introduction to lock picking, and has some nice graphics that really helped me understand how locks work, and how they can be circumvented. If you really get into it, then I'm sure this book would offer a lot more information to help you along.

    1. Re:Article at Howstuffworks.com by Scrab · · Score: 1

      And the great thing is, you can track which pages most /.ers are on by which pages only load on the thrid try....

      --
      RoseColor red={0, 0xffff, 0x0000, 0x0000};VioletColour blue={0, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0xffff};find / -name *mybase*|chown you
    2. Re:Article at Howstuffworks.com by CamMac · · Score: 1

      Good article, but its forgetting a key item... The best lockpick tool is C4. Its a little noisy, and the property damage is likely to get noticed, but for speed and ease of use, it can't be beat.

      The torque lever and pick are for people who can't afford the property damage but can afford the time.

      --Cam

      --
      All jocks think about is sports. All nerds think about is sex.
  14. There's actually two sides to it... by foxtrot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've found over the years, simply being self-taught, that there are very few locks I can't get into using stuff I carry on me or stuff that's easy to find (leatherman tool, paperclip, sewing needle, whatever.)

    There's a much larger number of locks that I can't get into without making it patently obvious somebody broke in. This is something I haven't been as successful in teaching myself.

    The former is engineering. The latter, that's art.

    -JDF

    1. Re:There's actually two sides to it... by dykofone · · Score: 4, Informative
      leatherman tool, paperclip, sewing needle, whatever.


      And never forget the value of the handy old credit card. A friend and I got started in lockpicking with some sets we got off ebay back in middle school, and by the end of high school were quite profficient.

      But I've found now that just about any locked door that doesn't use a deadbolt can be opened much faster with a credit card. I keep three of varying thickness in my wallet depending on the situation. I use my ID badge at work to get into the conference rooms because it's quicker than pressing in the door code.

      Also, two butter knives work pretty well too if you have a reasonable gap between the door and frame, just alternate force on them to "walk" the latch out. Best part is, you haven't touched the door handle at all, so it's about as non-invasive as you can get

    2. Re:There's actually two sides to it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as getting in without anyone knowing, one of the best tricks is destroying a lock and replacing it with a new one. Then the legitimate users of the lock think they've done something wrong when their key won't turn or their comination is different.

    3. Re:There's actually two sides to it... by Holi · · Score: 1

      We used to make our own picks and tension bars from the metal bristles from street sweepers. All you needed was a file and a pair of pliers.

      Ahh to be young and homeless.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    4. Re:There's actually two sides to it... by tmasssey · · Score: 1
      And never forget the value of the handy old credit card. A friend and I got started in lockpicking with some sets we got off ebay back in middle school, and by the end of high school were quite profficient.

      Guaranteed to make someone my age (27) feel old. eBay didn't exist until after I was out of high school. You're telling me that someone could *buy* something from eBay in middle school, and now be out of high school?

      This getting old thing sucks...

  15. As with computers... by MonolithicX · · Score: 5, Funny

    the easiest way to break in is to crawl through a window.

    1. Re:As with computers... by qbzzt · · Score: 1

      Actually, with US frame houses (a lumber frame with masonite siding that looks like cardboard on stereoids), a window would be overkill. Just stick a pen knife through the wall, remove the siding, remove the insulation and repeat for the inside wall. If you can pass through a 16 inch crack, this will get you inside most houses.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    2. Re:As with computers... by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      Hey! What are you doing cutting a hole in the side of that house?

      Um, I locked myself out? Yeah, that's it.

      --
      No Comment.
    3. Re:As with computers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's more true than you may think. At the college I go to, you can get to pretty much any steam tunnel, building roof, electrical room, or mecahnical room with just a bit of climbing and some creativity.

    4. Re:As with computers... by micromoog · · Score: 1

      Breaking a window is a hell of a lot easier than that.

    5. Re:As with computers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most houses have 1/2 inch ply-wood sheeting between the framing and the sideing. That will take a little while to get through.

    6. Re:As with computers... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Believing that a 16-inch space between studs is a "crack" is a sure sign that one is a slashdotter. (Not sure I'd fit myself, though.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:As with computers... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you mean 14 1/2". Or sometimes 22 1/2". Not many carpenters on slashdot I guess. Also, you will need more than a pen knife to get through the 7/16" OSB sheathing that is so often used these days. On older houses you might even have 3/4" tongue and groove boards to get through instead of plywood or OSB.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  16. Lock picking for fun and profit by Monkeyman334 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At work we have 4 of those 8' tall cabinets with the small keys and cheap locks. My building has 80 people working in it, so it was a pain when someone used the cabinet and ran off with the key. Who could it be? I told them I could knew how to pick locks. Really I meant that I saw a tutorial on howstuffworks.com about 6 months ago. I was talking out my ass but gave it a shot anyway. In about 2 minutes I had picked their crappy lock and we could tell who took the key by the stuff that was in the cabinet. Everyone in my office kept saying "I don't want to know what you did before you worked here." I tried to keep my "skills" quiet though. Didn't want people looking to me when stuff went missing.

  17. Wait... by StevenHenderson · · Score: 3, Funny

    So now you're telling me that Douglas Chick is the master of unlocking? Well, Barry Burton told me that Jill Valentine was...

    1. Re:Wait... by ULTRAJOE · · Score: 1

      Ah, the classic Resident Evil Engrish lines live on! Thank you sir!

      Gmail invite for real? I'd love one to ULTRAJOE AT QWEST.NET
      ad(thanks)vance

    2. Re:Wait... by StevenHenderson · · Score: 1
      glad you like the RE reference...dont think too many people got it :)

      sent invite...enjoy!

  18. Sounds like fun by AcidFnTonic · · Score: 1

    I myself enjoy lock picking... sounds like yet another thing which will soon be illegal even to talk about...

    I used to sit in study hall and pick my old gym lock (it had the keyhole on the back for teachers) by the end of the year I could pick any gym lock in about 10 seconds flat. Although I have ethics and never did anything with that talent, I will always be interested in something like this

    --
    Sometimes the majority just means all the morons are on the same side.
    1. Re:Sounds like fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have morals. Soceities have ethics.

  19. Handcuffs by donbrock · · Score: 1

    I had a job once where they gave me a desk and a chair with a pair of handcuffs locked to it. Apparently, they had to literally chain the last guy to the chair to get any work out of him but they had long since lost the key.

    I had nothing to do for a day or two so, using a paperclip, I was able to master the technique of unlocking it.

    Now if I ever get arrested and handcuffed (and happen to have a paperclip in my hand) I'll be ready.

    1. Re:Handcuffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I had a job like that too, cept it was in the "adult film" industry.

    2. Re:Handcuffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a day or two? What kind of übercuffs you've got there?

  20. This is nothing new by jambarama · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Locks just like security fixes and such only make it more difficult for someone to break in. We've covered the kensington lock vulnerability before here: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/09/021822 5&tid=172&tid=184&tid=1

    Ultimately everything is hackable, hard and software, by those who have too much time and a little knowhow.

    It just sure is nice to be one of those people.

  21. Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, free by notthepainter · · Score: 5, Informative
    Learned this at MIT a million years ago.

    Wait until the streep sweeper comes by and follow it down the street. The bristles are spring steel that is perfect for lock picks. They fall off, just pick them up off the street.

    I've never made a set of picks so I don't know if this is true or not, but there was a decent lock picking culture at MIT in the late 70s.

  22. Richard Feynman was a Stell Bold Hacker by notestein · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pick up a copy of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!"

    It's a good quick ready and talks about his lock picking and safe cracking while working on the Manhattan projcet at Los Alamos.

    Or read about it here

  23. Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you want? by Silicon_Knight · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For locks like a Medaco lock - in which the tumblers have to be rotated to a certain angle (usually 15 deg increments) as well as lifted to a certain height - AFAIK there are no tools out there that can pick that. However, even the strongest locks uses brass for the tumblers (Medacos are no exception - at least the one that I opened up to play with :) ).

    Brass is primarily a copper alloy. It is extremely reactive in the presence of strong acids. A few years back, a friend of mine wanted to look at a smart card under a microscope - just curious, that's all. I was working in a research lab then, and I mixed hydrochloric acid with nitric acid to make aqua regia. We were able to dissolve the GOLD contacts off the smart card to expose the chip underneath. (Aqua regia is used for lot assay analysis of alloys to determine alloy composition - you start by dissolving the metal, then feed it through some form of spectroscopy machine to measure the quantity and the composition of the metal). If I had squirted that into the door lock and held it in place with some bubble gum ... I could probably have opened the door with just a screwdriver after the tumblers are dissolved.

    - SK

  24. 80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least here in Finland practically all locks seem to be Abloy.. (well, except for cars, bicycles etc)

    1. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      Abloy was bought out by Medeco, last I checked. Medeco makes a heck of a lock, but until recently the blanks were brittle and they tended to break in your hand if you twisted the key too hard in the lock.

      Abloy locks employ a sidebar and rotating disks. It's very, very difficult to pick them for several reasons; sidebar locks are intrinsically difficult to pick (such as the old GM locks, which didn't have a pick set for them until the late 1980's or early 1990's, when some smartass figured out that you could use a special spring compression tool to allow the wafers to free-float. That makes them subject to move when vibrated or rapped, and the sidebar (which is then under spring pressure) can line them up.

      Abloy has no such constraint. IIRC, the world record for picking an Abloy is 36 hours. That may have changed; I don't know.

      For high security locks like Medeco, ASSA, Abloy, etc., the fastest way through them is a grinder. Used to be an ice pick attack to the latch, and although some locks are still improperly installed, that's largely gone the way of the dodo.

      As a locksmith myself, I'd rather have Abloy on my doors more than anything else. But they're hard to find here in the US, so I use Medeco instead. Beats the hell out of a $15 Kwikset, lemme tell you.

    2. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Abloy has no such constraint. IIRC, the world record for picking an Abloy is 36 hours. That may have changed; I don't know.

      I'm in impression someone has made a thing called 'vempele' that can crack them but I don't have an idea how on earth it works...

    3. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Well, I should add to my previous post that there is a very good way to defeat sidebar locks- and that's by drilling them, and applying pressure to the sidebar. Of course, this sort of precision is difficult, and most locks that are this good usually have hardened inserts, or roller pins, or ball bearings that make this sort of penetration difficult. However, it CAN be done.

      Grinding cures all ills, however; a good grinder will take a whack out of a lock that will take hours or days to pick.

      The other tack to take is just to avoid the lock entirely: don't fight the chain. Go for the weak link. There is almost invariably a way around the lock that can be exploited. We have entire rooms that are protected with Medeco locks and 2-hour fire doors that can be circumvented in much less exciting ways. Back in the early 90's, some jackass came up with an under-the-door tool that allows one to manipulate the lever on the inside of the door. Thanks to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), virtually any door with these lever sets can now be defeated. Of course, even the knobs can be manipulated with a piece of sticky rubber instead of a hook. It's a bit trickier, but it can be done.

    4. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Actually Abloy is part of the ASSA conglomerate now)

    5. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Breaking the lock is something entirely different from picking it. You can't break doors as a hobby and real burglars very rarely bother with picking anyway.

    6. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Chucklz · · Score: 1

      36 hours for an Abloy, you got to be kidding me. You can easily make tools, or buy from John Falle, that will allow you to decode and open an Abloy cylinder in 5-10 minutes.

    7. Re:80% of locks cheap crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in Funland, the home country of Abloy (that's finland, you know), a majority of all locks are made by the company. Not only that, but a growing portion of the locks (at interresting places, atleast) are their high-security "executive"-model where the key has the profile of a rectangle ground into a 'Z' of sorts with two grooves on each long side of the key and a identical dentation on both short sides, plus some other forms that I can't quite describe. So how (and why) is a guy going to learn lockpicking here? Locksmiths usually drill everything. The "vempele" (gizmo in english) which was mentioned earlier was, I believe, developed by a career criminal quite a number of years ago, but lock technology has progressed since then.

  25. BN no longer has this book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the link at BN says they are all out...

  26. I see your karma whoring, and raise you... by mnewton32 · · Score: 3, Funny
  27. Back to basic, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    now that every computer related device gets Quantum-Encrypted, let's just screw that, time to get back to basics for some fun.
    I can't wait to pick the lock of some super secret satellite, yeah, right up there.
    That will be a joyride.

  28. MIT Guide to Lockpicking by Malc · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This is the guide we learnt from back in about 1994. We downloaded a .ps of it from the web. You can Google for it, and it's available in HTML form now.

    1. Re:MIT Guide to Lockpicking by YetAnotherName · · Score: 1

      I wish I had known about this site when I was locked out on my own balcony and forced to jump.

      Well, I suppose I would also wish for to be locked out with my laptop.

      Oh, and be in WiFi range.

      Or at least have this book handy.

      Well, since I'm wishing, I suppose I could wish to not get locked out, too.

    2. Re:MIT Guide to Lockpicking by Giant+Killer · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I'm suprised no one has linked to the (in)famous MIT Guide to Lockpicking yet.
      Dang it, I was going to post that. Now I would just be redundant.

      Lockpicking was standard teaching for freshman the East Campus dorm at MIT. This guide has served as the standard since around 1991 iirc. During the yearly EC "Oddball Olympics" lockpicking was one of the main events. I remember a masterlock being picked in 9 seconds. Really, masterlock padlocks can be that easy. And I've seen master hackers (roof and tunnel in this case) spend an hour and a half on a Schlage and never get it.

      This is a great guide and a good place to start, but lockpicking is all about feel. Like anything else, it just takes practice to get good.
    3. Re:MIT Guide to Lockpicking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've "picked" masterlock (the dial type used on high school lockers) in 1 second with a short bar. Sometimes brute force is best.

  29. Sometimes thinking outside the box helps. by e9th · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If your aim is just to gain surreptitious entry, there may be easier ways than picking the lock.

    When my father died, he left some important papers in a locked drawer in his file cabinet. The key was nowhere to be found. But the drawer above it had no lock. I just removed that one.

    Older Steelcase desks with a center drawer actuated locking mechanism could be opened (well, except for the center drawer itself) by just reaching behind that drawer and lifting up the lever that locked all the others.

    1. Re:Sometimes thinking outside the box helps. by enigmatichmachine · · Score: 1

      I did the same going through some of my families old stuff. a bunch of those little metal fireboxes with locks, and we had no keys, but the hinge on the back was just a little bar of metal holding the two pieces of box together. I took a piece of coathanger and a hammer and tapped the hinge rod out. problem solved.

      --
      -and occasionaly a giant moose.
  30. MIT Guide to Lockpicking by Tassach · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm suprised no one has linked to the (in)famous MIT Guide to Lockpicking yet.

    --
    Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  31. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by BlowChunx · · Score: 3, Informative

    Speaking of MIT, why hasn't anyone mentioned the MIT lock picking guide ?

  32. Your nearest lock picking group... by dcw3 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... http://www.cia.gov/

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  33. The Club!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I always love watching people secure their Clubs to their steering wheels and feel so secure. What has happened is thieves bypass the Club and hacksaw the steering wheel itself. Steering wheel broken, slide Club through hole, no more club!!

    1. Re:The Club!!!! by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      I think the club is like bear and tennis shoes old joke.

      Bear starts chasing two men in the woods.
      One guy stops and puts on his tennis shoes.
      Other guy yells "what are you doing those shoes
      won't make you faster than the bear!"
      First guy replies "I don't have to be faster than the bear just faster than you."

    2. Re:The Club!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point of The Club is that it make my car more of a pain in the ass to steal than the next guy's, additionally it is stick and a Saab, which has weird Saab only quirks, like the ignition is in between the driver and passenger seats and has a lot of metal around it probably making it a big pain in the ass to hotwire, couple that with the fact that the car will only start in reverse and to get it in reverse, you have to lift a small ring around around the shifter I'm guessing that if some kid tried to lift my car for joy riding I'd find it stalled out about a block away. The downside is that I cringe everytime I hand my keys to a valet.

    3. Re:The Club!!!! by barnzi · · Score: 1

      The funniest thing I saw done with a steering lock was on a car-ferry. Someone actually put their steering lock on their camper to stop it being nicked! Whilst at sea! Even worse was the fact it was a Stop-Lock (nicknamed a 'Go-Lock' because it is dead easy to remove).

      --

      Official threat to Homeland Security
      University of Surrey - http://www.surrey.ac.uk

  34. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by lhand · · Score: 1

    I used to make keys to the school locks from those street-sweeper bristles. I'd fold them over to match the lock, use wire to hold them in place, and file notches in them to match the keys.

    Of course, I also used them for my picks. They are great for the tension wrenches. I still have some I made at least 30 years ago.

  35. B&N doesn't have it... by stankulp · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ...but Amazon does.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/09 74 463019/qid=1095277034/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/002-729179 8-4311214?v=glance&s=books

    --
    We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
  36. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by chrismtb · · Score: 1

    MIT Guide to Lockpicking - Fairly thorough guide on lockpicking.

    --
    Break the mindless monotony!
  37. here be the pdf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    .:

    Funky-type pdf

    http://www.lysator.liu.se/mit-guide/MITLock Guide.pdf

    ~!-xor

    http://www.lysator.liu.se/m it-guide/MITLockGuide.ps

    :.

  38. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by John+Courtland · · Score: 1

    A shot of Freon or R-12 will freeze the lock components to the point that they will shatter when struck with a pointed chisel and hammer. The only problem with that is that you've just left evidence. With a precise picking, the point of entry is hard to determine.

    --
    Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
  39. Hacking? by Carbon+Unit+549 · · Score: 1

    What's next a safe hacker?

    --

    nohup rm -rf ~/. >& zen &

  40. Lock Picking Tools... by NormAtHome · · Score: 1

    I may be wrong but a friend of mine once told me that it's against the law (at least here in NJ, USA) to own lock picking tools unless you're a licenced lock smith.

    1. Re:Lock Picking Tools... by neverutterwhen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I heard that rumour too. But let's face it provided you don't go carrying them around in the utility belt of your black catsuit right next to the grappling winch and pocket arc cutter you're not going to be arrested. And if it's just a hobby you won't be carrying them around anyway.

      --
      My appreciation of Douglas Adams is far deeper than yours.
    2. Re:Lock Picking Tools... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't pump your own fucking gas in NJ i doubt if you can own lock picking devices.

  41. Other lock-picking resources. by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 5, Informative

    First, the obligatory link to a mirror of the MIT Lockpicking Guide.

    Second - as another poster noted, lock pins aren't typically made from high-strength alloys. A battery-powered hand drill (and a screwdriver to turn the lock when the pins are gone) is the best and fastest lock pick that there is. Didn't even leave any visible damage when I used this approach on a filing cabinet we'd lost the key to. Just pick a bit as wide as the key entryway, and drill down the line of pins.

    Be advised that the lock tends to jam after closing again, as the remains of the pins fall back into their channels when the lock returns to its original position. But if you're drilling a lock, you're typically looking for a one-time solution anyways.

    1. Re:Other lock-picking resources. by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      Another threat is someone drilling out the screws that hold the indoor part of the lock to the outdoor part.

      Naive engineering would be to armor the screw holes and start an arms race between the hardness of the armor and the hardness of the drill bit.

      Medeco's approach is sheer poetry. Before you assemble one of their locks, the instructions tell you to drop in a small ball bearing they supply. The horizontal screw goes in after the ball bearing. Someone trying to drill out the screw hits the ball bearing first. Futility ensues.

      You could do that with any lock, of course.

  42. Those links to the PDF don't work... by stankulp · · Score: 1

    ...too bad.

    --
    We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
    1. Re:Those links to the PDF don't work... by Mr.Sharpy · · Score: 1

      They both worked fine for me. Did you remove the spaces inserted by the evil slashcode?

  43. the primary value by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    Erm...that's what you say to the mainstream media but you can tell the truth here on slashdot. You know full well that very few competitive lockpickers are doing it for anything other than entertainment and very few are actually going to feed back their knowledge to help lock manufacturers improve their products.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  44. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by mkettler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For that matter, most structures surrounding locks aren't indestructible either. When you get down too it, someone can break into a lot of places by driving sledgehammer or truck through the door.

    However, that makes lots of noise. It's hard to protect an office building from a bulldozer attack, but then again, it's pretty hard to sneak around with a bulldozer.

    Really an attack involving strong acids isn't much more practical. Not many thieves want to walk around with a bottle of highly concentrated HCL hidden in their pocket. (think spillage while trying to run from the police)

    Your best bet in any physical security is to try and make the thief do one or more of the following:
    1) make a lot of noise (defeating stealth)
    2) leave a lot of good evidence about the intrusion (defeating anonymity)
    3) use specialized or expensive tools (defeating any financial gain)
    4) use a tool too unwieldy or impractical to transport inconspicuously. (defeating stealth)

    Of course, scale the measures to fit the value of what you're hiding.

    --
    -Matt
  45. this looks cool by beefcake101 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    i might have to give it a try.. i guess no more useing credit cards to open locks anymore

    --
    www.angelfire.com/dc2/stockman/index.html http://www.FreeFlatScreens.com/default.aspx?refere r=87176
  46. NOT available at B&N by still+cynical · · Score: 2, Informative

    Forget the link to B&N, try Amazon instead.

    --
    Ignorance is the root of all evil.
  47. Testing claims yourself... by Render_Man · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've participated in the Lockpick contest for the last 2 years. It's been a blast. Quite a challenge too. The book is'nt anything hugely groundbreaking (check out Security.org for a really amazing book), but it's a good thing to read if your curious or if your like me and are not very good at explaing how to do it to others.

    I just find lockpicking facinating because it's yet another case of people proving manufacturers claims are often highly exadurated, or just full of BS. Knowing, and proving for yourself what makes a good lock vs. a bad lock fits well into the computer security dynamic (Physical security anyone?). That extra $1-2 for a master brand lock can buy you several minutes more security vs. a cheap look alike that can be shimmed in about 3 seconds, kind of useful to know. They can both be opened, but your less likely to have a thief willing to be exposed for several minutes than for a few seconds. The Kyptonite vulnerability now makes everyone re-think trusting the manufactureres claims now does'nt it?

    It's also a handy skill for those inevitable times when someone locks the server cabinet and loses the key and you don't want to pay a locksmith through the nose. I also use my skill in security audits to very dramatically show how little security that cheap lock on ther server room provides.

    I've got some descriptions of the contests and LP resources up at my site and some links to videos and the MIT guide if anyones curious.

    Just remember that there is little a set of bolt cutters, a crow bar, or a sledge hammer can't get through. Lockpicking is the 'elegant solution' to that (literal) brute force.

    --
    Where are we going, and why are we in this hand cart?
    1. Re:Testing claims yourself... by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 1

      I hope they have the 'obstacle course' again next year. (for the non-attendees, that's 8 kinds of locks, # opened + total time determined winner)
      I also hope you're not too busy winning all the wifi stuff next year, so you get a chance at it. :)

    2. Re:Testing claims yourself... by Render_Man · · Score: 1

      As long as the contests don't get overlapped again and I get a chance to rest my arms before the LP con, I'll kick your ass! :)

      --
      Where are we going, and why are we in this hand cart?
  48. Go magnetic by greg_barton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just use a magnetic lock.

    1. Re:Go magnetic by Zagar · · Score: 1

      An electromagnetic pulse generator (coil + oscilliator + battery) could probably open a magnetic lock (unless it has protection for such devices).

      --
      YAFIRL (Yet another Free iPods referral link)
  49. Not alone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's nice to know I'm not alone on this. What helped me learn how to pick locks was to break open a kwikiset door knob and switch the pin tumblers around so I could make different combo's. This is great for us poor college students that can't have a bunch of locks on which to practice (English 316 right there!)

  50. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by selderrr · · Score: 1

    It's hard to protect an office building from a bulldozer attack, but then again, it's pretty hard to sneak around with a bulldozer.


    [me pictures someone sneaking tongue-in-cheek with a doze]

    rotfl :-)

    you just brought some sunshine in my totally boring, rainy and fubar day. Thanks mate.

  51. Everything Fun In Jersey Is Illegal by RogL · · Score: 2, Informative

    Everything Fun In Jersey Is Illegal

    I'm a recovering South Jersey boy. When my wife moved to Jersey with me, within a few months she came up with a song:

    Everything Fun In Jersey Is Illegal ...that includes lockpicks, and I've been told, carrying a prybar in your vehicle is a Bad Idea (potential police harassment for carrying "burglar tools"). Hey, I've been harassed for carrying a Victorinox (Swiss Army) pocketknife. Just a basic pocketknife w/ screwdrivers / scissors.

    Now enjoying a state that's much less restrictive.

    1. Re:Everything Fun In Jersey Is Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of shitty song is that? How do you pronounce "w/ screwdrivers / scissors" anyhow?

  52. That old lock... by Brandybuck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In high school we used to pick the cheap locks on the classroom cabinets all the time. The purpose was to steal the rival club's flag then extort community charity work out of them to get it back. My brother got pretty good at locks.

    Then we visited Germany for a month. The house where my brother was staying had a locked closet with a key missing from before the war. No one had opened it in over fifty years. But it was an absurdly easy lock and my brother had the closet open five minutes after being apprised of the problem (four minutes to find a suitably stiff paperclip).

    To this day I believe there's still a family in Germany firmly convinced that US students are taught lockpicking and safecracking and other feats of criminal legerdemain.

    p.s. No valuables found in closet beyond old moth-eaten coats the wife's old love letters. Ah, how sweet :-)

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  53. Holy Crap by tunabomber · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just tried it on the Krypto-Lok sitting next to my desk and once I figured out the trick, I got it open in about 15 seconds.
    Basically, you have to shake the lock at the same time that you're turning the pen.
    My guess is that shaking and wiggling the pen causes the interface between the pins & spacers to move around, and if you're turning the pen at the same time, the cylinder will rotate a notch as soon as the interface between the leading pin/spacer pair is in the right place. Then you just repeat the same procedure for all the other pin/spacer pairs.

    --

    pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory71 ...
  54. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by Giant+Killer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've made several sets, and it really is this easy. Best way really is to follow the street sweeper. The spring steel bristles that come loose have perfect properties. I've tried making them out of other materials, and the spring steel is quite easy to shape and very resilient.

    Then just find a decent pick you want to copy, and sit down at the grinder with your blank bristle. They've still got grinders in my old dorm and the lockpicking culture is indeed alive and well at MIT.

  55. Tools to pick locks? by retro128 · · Score: 1

    Picking locks is a pretty handy skill to have. How many of us have seen it where somebody accidentally locks the filing cabinet and no one has the key? Or maybe you or your neighbor got locked out of the house? Of course you need the right tools. This place is pretty good to find them. They have jigglers for car locks, standard pick sets, picks for combo briefcase locks, cylindrical locks...Well, just about everything.

    --
    -R
  56. Informative lockpicking site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This site is rather interesting.

  57. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? You can't get your hands on a bit of plastic explosives?

  58. Actually as near as I can tell by xyote · · Score: 2
    the pen just does a combination of allowing you to turn the lock cylinder and jiggle the lock pins so that you can align them at the splits (or whatever you call them). Just standard lock picking techniques. I'm suprised they can open the bike locks so quickly as good locks are supposed to have features that make them pick resistent such as false splits and better pin alignment. The reason you can pick locks is because the pins aren't in perfect alignment and you can torque the lock so one pin rubs in its guide. By moving the pin, it's the one harder to move since it's rubbing, you can feel it when the split hits the cylinder boundary. Once that happens the cylinder moves a little bit more and another pin starts rubbing in its guide. Repeat for all pins. Good locks have anti-picking features. This should not happen.

    If you want to practice this on a easy to pick lock, do one of the keyless cable locks. Just pull at the lock to apply pressure. Turn the numbered ring that is hardest to turn (it's rubbing) until it clicks. Repeat on other rings until lock opens.

  59. VOTE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just one more reason to vote. And an issue to get your congress critters on.

    1. Re:VOTE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because all it takes is voting and alerting your Congressman and the world changes to your benefit. Oh, I'm sorry, are we talking about Earth here?

  60. Not what I thought when I saw "steel bolt hacking" by goneutt · · Score: 1

    I'm in the midst of a materials science course and the first day in the lab we spent pulling metal samples apart. and the third. and the fourth. hmm, I think tommorow we either melt stuff or crush... Check the gear http://me.uttyler.edu/MatLab.asp

    I always threatened to /. the school

    --
    Bacardi + slashdot = negative karma.
  61. Johnny Ashcroft says by Safety+Cap · · Score: 1
    Only terrorists carry Bic Pens.

    God-fearing, red-blodded, honest Americans would never use a Bic Pen.

    If you use a Bic Pen, then the terrorists will have won.

    --
    Yeah, right.
    1. Re:Johnny Ashcroft says by CamTarn · · Score: 1

      Bic are French, incidentally, lending even more force to the "God-fearing, red-blooded, honest Americans would never use a Bic pen" argument... if you're a Real American, you'd use a pen that was Made in the US of A, as you sit and eat your Freedom Fries...

    2. Re:Johnny Ashcroft says by onkelonkel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So this american guy (the president) says to this french guy (also the president), "hey dude we're going to use our awesome military might to impose democracy on an arab nation (Iraq), want to join in?" And the french guy says, "No thanks buddy, we tried it already and it didn't work! (Algeria)". And the american dude gets all bent out of shape and says "bite me, you cowardly french dude". And the french guy says "Whatever, but its a real bad idea, we know this from experience" And the american dude gets more bent out of shape and says "bite me, you cowardly french dude".

      Get it now?

      Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  62. Interesting for German users... by PontifexPrimus · · Score: 1

    ...might be this site:
    Sportsfreunde der Sperrtechnik - Deutschland e.V.
    This is the homepage of a registered association devoted to the sport of opening locks. If you become a member you're allowed to carry picks as they are now sports equipment; make sure you only use them for legal purposes, though!

    --
    -- Language is a virus from outer space.
  63. Abloy locks by Aggrajag · · Score: 1

    Too bad most of the doorlocks here in Finland are made by Abloy. AFAIK, you need some kind of special tool pick those. One type of Abloy lock has 11 discs and there are close to two billion different combinations.

    http://www.abloy.com/

  64. I learned lockpicking as a child by TaxSlave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I first learned to pick locks at my childhood church, from my dad. The locks were standard household style locks, on doors that opened outward, so all I needed was a pocketknife.

    During High School, I could often be found inside the locked classroom, waiting for the teacher to arrive. I knew which doors opened using which methods, and which windows were nearly impossible to lock properly.

    I've learned a few things about physical security over the years. Walls don't always go to the true ceiling. Locks don't always work as advertised. The unknowledgeable don't always understand the proper ways to secure things, and a disgruntled soon to be ex-employee will occasionally just hand you a key you shouldn't have.

    With my knowledge of computers, I make it clear that I look the other way when people are typing in their passwords on a PC I'm working on. I want it to be clear to them that I don't know their password. If I want to gain access to a PC, I don't need to know the password before I start anyway.

    People come to me when they need to gain access to something they've locked themselves out of on their computer. They have confidence that i can help them. Quite often, I can. A little research, a little knowledge, and the ability to solve problems tends to do the trick.

    I've never studied lockpicking. I've never needed to. Locks are usually either very easy to go through, or around. Around is usually the best way.

    These days, it's all white-hat. That makes it even more fun.

    1. Re:I learned lockpicking as a child by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      first learned to pick locks at my childhood church, from my dad

      What denomination was that? The Church of Satan, perhaps? Hmmm.

    2. Re:I learned lockpicking as a child by g0bshiTe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nice job, I find myself in the same situation. Remeber the old bicycle locks, the kind with the ring style tumblers? That was my first lock. Since then I have worked part time for a locksmith for a few years. There isn't a car I can't get into with little more than a coat hanger. If that doesn't work a few bobbi pins will do. Though the Mercedes security locks trouble me. The only household locks I can't do are Baldwin and Medico. Pretty much everything else is fair game. In school Master combination locks made me popular. Some kid next to me would forget his locker combo and start to go get the janitor. I'd stop em and ask for one of their shoelaces and procede to open their locker with it. True security is like a dragon, it's a mythilogical beast.

      "There is no spoon"

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  65. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's true. My friend at MIT made me a set of picks out of street sweeper bristles a few years ago. Worked great. Of course, I've since lost them, and haven't gotten around to making new ones yet.

  66. NO group in dc -- weird by fadethepolice · · Score: 1

    I learned to hack and pick locks ( we won't get into credit cards... ) when I went to Capitol Institute of Technology in Laurel MD. Lots of us at the college got into a lot of locks, um, i mean we really got into lock picking!! The area must have changed a lot since then... Athough I heard today of a resurfacing of Marion Barry.... Great place to study Any more Capitol College geeks out there.. Specifically... Anyone else in THE Capitol College Torture Research Club? Come on.. Little john? King Prozac? Don Jay? I know you guys read /. It's not like you guys have HOT DATES between SHADOWRUN sessions...

  67. Off to the pop machine... by Denver_80203 · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this process will work on ALL circular type locks? Another post here suggests you need to shake the lock a little.. with my luck the machine will tip over and kill me

    1. Re:Off to the pop machine... by russotto · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope. This model of lock must have either really crappy manufacturing or a design flaw or both. What they're doing is the equivalent to "raking" in a conventional lock -- that's when you put some tension on the cylinder and just run a pick along the pins without any attempt to feel the individual pins. It generally won't work in a lock with security features and tight tolerances (though sometimes you get lucky). In addition, tubular locks are usually designed so you have to turn it at least 1/4 turn to open it, which would involve picking the lock several times. The Kryptonite they show releases the shackle in an intermediate position -- bad design there. A real tubular lock pick should open those locks; a simple plastic cylinder of the right diameter should not.

    2. Re:Off to the pop machine... by brunning · · Score: 3, Interesting

      there's some interesting insight and speculation on the original bikeforums.net thread regarding this.

      i don't know much about lock picking, but some posters there basically speculate that most circular locks are somewhat succeptable to this kind of picking and the krpytonite happened to be especially unlucky due to the diameter of the barrel and pressure needed to compress the springs of the teeth mechanisms inside.

      the bic pen happened to hit the spot, being the proper diameter and the proper softness, collapsing where necessary, but strong enough to poke down, where necessary.

      i'll say that after practicing for a little while, i can pop a krpytonite EV disc lock (top of the line) in about 5 seconds.

    3. Re:Off to the pop machine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, I'm not sure but I think it has something to do with the kerning of the pins in the cylinder. Anyway that's what I saw on some dude's site on the internet.

  68. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

    There were people discussing something like this in a web forum a while ago, but towards firearms permits -- people would apply in as many states as possible for cary permits. Some states had (and may still have) agreements to honor concealed cary permits from other states.

    On a related note, I wondered whether I should become a Notary Public, or achieve other types of odd tokens to put on the resume (FCC HAM Lic, SAGE, IEEE, etc.). Not sure whether it would help with the resume, just a thought.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  69. Same thing, only with combo lock... by romper · · Score: 2, Funny
    My boss mentioned that he had a couple combination locks for gym lockers, etc., that were just laying around because he forgot the combinations if it wasn't used in awhile. I told him if it was a Master lock there was a simple method for getting them open and he could bring it in.

    Well, he did. The only thing is it wasn't a Master lock but some crap no-name lock made in Taiwan or someplace. The Master method didn't work on it but I decided to see if I could do it by touch (never tried before).

    Two minutes later he went back to his office and found his coffee cup padlocked to his chair.

    I got some strange looks after that...

    --
    Right is wrong when left is right.
  70. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Yah, my folks live out in the boonies and robbers out there just kick the doors down. It's not hard to figure out who's on vacation or not home, and several people have had their houses cleaned out while away.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  71. I work for a bike parts/accessories wholesaler... by Corf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...and I browse /. when the sales calls aren't heavily inbound. Naturally, I forwarded the link to the other six folks in the department, and everyone's buzzing about it. We will definitely bring it up with the Kryptonite rep the next time he's in the area.

    Generally, folks buying locks know that it's just a deterrent... except for the people buying exactly the retails-at-$80 lock (with heavy-duty chain) shown in the movie, who tend to be messengers and/or people with $1k+ bicycles. Personally, my bikes stay locked up in my living room when I'm not on them, and I don't take my lock with me when I seriously ride because that would tempt me to separate myself from the bike. I've got a cheap old schwinn cruiser for that. (=

    --
    The pain was excruciating and the scarring is likely permanent, but that just means it's working.
  72. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    There is no such thing as an unpickable lock.

    If a mechanical key will open it, there are mechanical devices that a skilled locksmith can use to open it without breaking the lock.

    However, there are locks that are complex enough to convince most locksmiths to just buy a drill instead of getting the tools and training neccesary.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  73. Lemme drop a great forum link here. by Catatonic+Dismay · · Score: 1

    http://lockpicking101.com ba-dow!

    Good stuff on that forum if you search. There is a LOT of shiznit to be read in the archives.

    --
    rm -rf ~/.signature
  74. Ob Naked Gun quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    "Who are you and how did you get in here?"

    "I'm a locksmith, and I'm a locksmith."

  75. dintroduces???? by mrklin · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    "Here is a book that dintroduces [sic] and teaches"

    Does the deditor not drun the dspell dchecker?

    Oh yeah, I forgot, this is dSlashdot.

  76. two stories by phyruxus · · Score: 1

    Ahh, you're right. It's been a while since I read it. Mod parent up.

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
    "d'Oh!" ~Homer
  77. Most essential lock picking tool by Kurt+Gray · · Score: 1

    ...is available for just $18 here. No knowledge of lock picking required. As for doors here's a trick that worked in my college dorm: 1. Standing outside of a locked door, remove the knob using a screwdriver, push the knob bolt through the door so that the knob falls to the floor inside the room. 2. Using a coat hanger bent back to make a "V" shaped hook, push the hook all the way through the door knob bolt hole, manipulate the coat hanger to turn the lock latch inside the door. It helps if you can see what you're doing through a window or if you practiced on a similar door. 3. When lock latch is released use a screwdriver to turn the knob mechanism to open the door. 4. Open the door. Put the knob back on the door. 5. Remove the hinge pins, remove the door, replace door with hippy bead curtain. Wait for resident to return and wonder where their door went.

  78. dipstick? by phyruxus · · Score: 2, Funny
    Wow, I didn't realize that I was the only person in the world without a photographic memory.

    Oh please, wise and brave anonymous coward, deluge me with further insults so I may one day be brave enough to anonymously insult people.

    In other words, bite me.

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
    "d'Oh!" ~Homer
    1. Re:dipstick? by theNote · · Score: 1

      Your comment is the only thing I've read today that made me laugh out loud.
      Honorary +1 funny to you, good sir.

  79. Sounds suspect... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While it may be true that bribes are often more useful for spies than other means, I question your story.

    Isn't your aunt's father most likely your grandfather?

    1. Re:Sounds suspect... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aunts and Uncles can be related by marriage (ie, in this case, the uncle's father is his grandfather.

    2. Re:Sounds suspect... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      touche, you stupid fuck.

  80. Feynman by Hans+Lehmann · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While you're at it, pick up a copy of Richard Feynman's "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman."
    In addition to winning the Nobel Prize, Feynman spent much of WWII at Los Alamos working on the atomic bomb. He devotes part of this book to his work there, including his (usually succesful) attempts to crack the many safes & locked file cabinets found at the base. He was very much a computer hacker in the days before computers.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    1. Re:Feynman by (C)0N0(R) · · Score: 2
      from http://clsdemo.caltech.edu/archive/00000014/02/Fey nmanLosAlamos.htm

      One day I discovered that the workmen who lived further out and wanted to come in were too lazy to go around through the gate, and so they had cut themselves a hole in the fence. So I went out the gate, went over to the hole and came in, went out again, and so on, until the sergeant at the gate begins to wonder what's happening. How come this guy is always going out and never coming in? And, of course, his natural reaction was to call the lieutenant and try to put me in jail for doing this. I explained that there was a hole.

      You see, I was always trying to straighten people out. And so I made a bet with somebody that I could tell about the hole in the fence in a letter, and mail it out. And sure enough, I did. And the way I did it was I said, "You should see the way they administer this place (that's what we were allowed to say). There's a hole in the fence 71 feet away from such and such a place, that's this size and that size, that you can walk through."

      Now, what can they do? They can't say to me that there is no such hole? I mean, what are they going to do? It's their own hard luck that there's such a hole. They should fix the hole. So I got that one through.

      --
      The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.
  81. Re:fun links about lock vulnerabily/Love those ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    The bikeforum's article on picking Kryptonite locks has a google ad for, you guessed it, Kryptonite locks.

    While the relevance is good, I'm guessing they don't sell many locks on that page.

  82. Legal Issue!! If you own lockpicks, please READ! by Banner · · Score: 3, Informative

    Okay, in many states you can legally own lockpicks as a hobbyist.

    HOWEVER!!

    IF YOU ARE ARRESTED FOR -ANY- CRIME, POSSESSION OF LOCKPICKS WILL CAUSE YOU TO ALSO BE CHARGED WITH POSSESSION OF 'BURGLERY TOOLS'! This could even include a speeding ticket if the Officer decides to search you. So if you are going to carry lockpicks on your person, BE CAREFUL!

  83. Lockpicking groups? by sulli · · Score: 1
    the book suggests that there might be a lock-picking group in every city in the U.S., when in fact I am having a difficult time finding one in my are.

    Post your address, and I'm sure a lock-picking group will find you. Or your stuff, anyway.

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  84. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like that would be a little too loud.

  85. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by MustardMan · · Score: 1

    IIRC one of the biggest selling points of Medeco locks was the fact that they patent their blank designs, and don't license the design to people. That way, to obtain copies of keys for the locks is a very difficult procedure unless you go directly through Medeco. Most places that use Medeco keys are ones where a LOT of people have keys for a certain area, and the main security risk is human rather than mechanical. Limiting peoples' ability to copy and distribute keys can be a better security investment than making the lock harder to pick.

  86. Americans. Sheesh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And yet the assault weapons ban has expired.

  87. My KryptoLok doesn't have this problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bought it 12 years ago - guess they don't make them like they used to:

    -On mine, the keyhole is on the straight bar's end, not in the middle.
    -On mine, the end of the U bar not interfacing with the lock has a distinct J curve. The one in the video doesn't show this.

    Is that a real KryptoLok in the video, or some cheap import?

  88. Police Handcuffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The father of one of the girls in my church youth group was an RCMP officer. One day (in 1991) she took her dad's handcuffs to youth group, and her best friend Crystal stole them. Crystal exclaimed "Ha! Now I've got you!" and slapped one on her wrist, and one on mine. Her friend's reaction was "uhhh... you know I don't have the key, right?".

    I picked them in about 15 seconds with the stem of a bic pen lid. I'm pretty sure it was mostly a fluke.

  89. Interesting by rindeee · · Score: 1

    I am a computer security analyst by trade as well as for the US Navy (Reservist) and I subcontract frequently to teach/lecture for various Fed agencies and private orgs. For example, I teach CISSP courses on occasion for (ISC)^2. Before I was "in to" computer security, I was in to lock picking. I ALWAYS incorporate physical security into ITSEC when I'm teaching/lecturing and I bring someone up from the student base and teach them to pick a "blue-band" Master lock in about a minute (not bad for someone who's never done it). Since someone's already linked to the MIT guide, I won't. I will however strongly recommend any of a number of books by Steven Hampton. Lock picking is a great way to blow hours on end (on a flight, etc.) and makes for a great conversation starter. Anyway, just my input.

  90. No Holy Crap here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    I bought a U-shaped KryptoLok 12 years ago. Mine works differently then the one in the video, and does not appear hackable:

    -On mine, the keyhole is on the end of the straight bar, not in the middle.
    -On mine, the end of the U bar not interfacing with the lock has a distinct J curve. The one in the video doesn't show this.

    Is that a real KryptoLok in the video, or some cheap import? Or has Kryptonite just gotten really shoddy?

  91. Make it easy, why don't you? by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I'm at a jobsite and really REALLY needed to pee.

    I recalled seeing a bathroom on the floor and when I got there, I was confronted with a pushbutton lock.

    The pushbuttons were some kind of polymer, with the numbers PRINTED on them.

    Three of the buttons had the numbers worn away.

    Needless to say, I solved the lock in a few seconds.

    Funny thing, it was an executive-type bathroom, not to be used by scruffy hacker geeks like me.

    Or so I was told by the executive-type that found me in there using a urinal.

    "Who gave you the combination?"

    "Everyone who used the bathroom since the lock was installed, that's who." (FLUSH)

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    1. Re:Make it easy, why don't you? by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      The correct response would have been:

      "Hey, how's it going? Crazy meeting this morning, huh?"

      He would have been too embarrassed to admit that he didn't remember you.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    2. Re:Make it easy, why don't you? by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 1

      If I didn't know you, NightStalker, and found you in my bathroom, I would just run the hell away. :0

    3. Re:Make it easy, why don't you? by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      I've been outed on Slashdot!

      This means that 10, maybe 11 people now know of my cDc affilliation... and care.

      Actually, I was pretty well disguised as a normal person at the time, conservative necktie, non-denim trousers, etc.

      The giveaway was the large VISITOR tag on a neckchain we all had to wear while onsite.

      Man, that was a really sucky gig, all things considered

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    4. Re:Make it easy, why don't you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You used the word polymer instead of plastic! yup you are definitely a nerd!

    5. Re:Make it easy, why don't you? by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

      No the correct response would have been to pee on his leg (ala "Up In Smoke"). Heh.

      "Hey man, what's goin on out dere?"
      "oh, just some people doing what... hey, hey! Hey! Come back here!"

      "They killed my best dog, some asshole pissed on my leg..."

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  92. Patriot Act + Zero Tolerance = Be VERY Careful by potus98 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hey novice lockpickers, be VERY careful! Although the U.S. Patriot Act and Zero Tolerance are not directly connected, the type of thinking is...

    In New Jersey, four children received school suspensions for "shooting" at each other (bang! bang!) with extended index fingers. The kids had violated their school's zero-tolerance policy against "weapons".

    Commonwealth v. Milo A 12-year-old student drew pictures that depicted his teacher being shot.

    In Irvington, N.J., two eight-year-olds have been charged with "making terrorist threats." The boys were "playing cops and robbers with a paper gun,"

    --
    This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
  93. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by MachDelta · · Score: 1

    Someone already did. You were 5 minutes late ;)

  94. Nothing New Here by waynelorentz · · Score: 1

    a fascinating new sport for the hacking hobbyist which doesn't necessarily involve computers. Steel bolt hacking is the art of competition lock picking that is beginning to make its mark on computer people and other geeks around the world.

    Wow. New stuff. Beginning to make its mark. Really?

    Sounds like all the Phrack and cDc G-files from the 1980's BBSing. Sorry, kids. Nothing new to see here.

  95. Knowing how to break in can help you secure it. by khasim · · Score: 1

    The credit card trick is easy to defeat. Just make sure the door opens to the inside and unscrew (just a bit) the screws holding the striker plate to the door frame.

    Once you know how MOST people will try to break in, it's easy to defeat them. But first you have to learn their tricks. :)

    1. Re:Knowing how to break in can help you secure it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the door is going to open inwards, it can just have a lip on the outside that prevents access to the crack between the door and the frame.

  96. The basics are simple by kc_cyrus · · Score: 2, Informative
    Consider the simplest case, a lock with only one dial having, say, 6 numbers. How many combinations are there for such a lock? Clearly, 6. Now consider a lock with two dials, each dial having 6 numbers. For each choice of number on the first dial, we can have any of 6 different choices for the second number. Thus, this lock would have 6 * 6 = 36 lock combinations. Now consider a lock with 3 dials, each dial having 6 numbers. We just figured out that there are 36 ways to set the first two numbers; for each of these. So if you have understood this and see the pattern, you can immediately write down how many combinations there are for any such lock.

    Now the "odds" question. If there are N possible combinations, and you try one of them, the probability that it is the right one is 1/N, and the probability that it is a wrong one is (N - 1)/N.

    Now suppose the 1st try is a failure but the 2nd is a success; the odds of this are [(N - 1)/N] * [1/(N - 1)] = 1/N again. [The 1/(N - 1) factor comes from the fact that on the 2nd try there are N - 1 combinations to try, since you have tried one that does not work and, presumably, will not try it again.] The odds that you will succeed in one or two tries is the sum of the individual probabilities, because they are mutually exclusive events (that is, the first success cannot occur on BOTH the first and second tries). Generalizing to the case of a first success on the Kth try is straightforward.

  97. Or... by temojen · · Score: 1

    More likely, the thief moves to a car that they don't have to hacksaw anything. Time is of the essence when you're stealing something in plain sight.

  98. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 1

    I have a Tennessee permit and can carry in about 45 states (last time I checked).

    It's funny though. Permit carriers in some states (like California) can carry legally here, but I can't carry there.

    Also for a while, I could carry in Missouri, but Missouri residents couldn't get permits to carry there. Some socialist judge in St. Louis decided the "must issue" clause was unconstitutional, but the carry clause wasn't.

    Guns are tools, like screwdrivers, hammers and lockpicks. People just have strange ideas about guns.

  99. Porsche cars not easy to steal by SethJohnson · · Score: 2, Interesting



    In terms of hotwiring or other methods of driving away with a stolen car, Porsches are impossible to steal. They've got factory-installed burglar alarms that are engaged every time you lock the doors. The engine will not start until the alarm is properly disengaged. Someone MIGHT be able to spoof the electronic radio signal that disables the alarm. But then you've got a special key with a computer chip that the car checks before starting the engine. In the end, the best way to steal a porsche is with a flatbed truck. Then chop it and sell it for parts. A used 1997 twin turbo sells for $100k +, so most people keep those vehicles under close watch. I dunno. Thought I'd chime in after laughing at Nick Cage in Gone in 60 Seconds driving away in stolen porches. Ridiculous.

    1. Re:Porsche cars not easy to steal by bob+beta · · Score: 1

      So the fun thing to do instead is fuck up the (un)locking mechanism, then trip the alarm and watch rich-boy try to get his Porche started.

      It's similar to the thing that some anarchist types do to fancy bikes on campus. They don't steal them, or attempt to steal them. They run their boot through the spokes a few times.

      (not Bakunin-type anarchists, except in a few special cases, mindyou)

  100. Military lock standards by currivan · · Score: 1

    In the course of looking into pick-resistant locks about a year ago, I came across these high-end padlocks from Sargent and Greenleaf. Prices: $1282 and $283. No, that is not a typo.

    From the description:
    Designed to meet stringent US Government specifications:
    30 minute protection against expert manipulation
    30 minute protection against radiographic attack
    10 minute protection against surreptitious entry attack

    Does anyone know what they mean by "radiographic attack"? I haven't been able to turn anything up on the web. I imagine that the three-letter-agencies have access to some much higher tech tools than the usual spring steel lock picks we're talking about here. Perhaps there's more room for geek approaches to lock picking than anyone expected.

    1. Re:Military lock standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      radiographic: X-Ray

    2. Re:Military lock standards by kbonin · · Score: 1

      They mean the lock is resistant to using an x-ray machine to peek at the pin / disc positions inside, usually by using something like lead around the cylinder / wheels.

      If you want a really pick resistant mechanical lock, I suggest Medeco.

    3. Re:Military lock standards by kd5ujz · · Score: 1

      But with an oxy-acetylene torch, you could easily cut through this lock. For ~$300 you can buy a cheap, portable kit including cutting head, lower torch barrel, tip, hose,case, and the oxygen and acetylene bottles with more then enough gas to cut down a block of chain link fence.

      --
      -William
      God is everything science has yet to explain.
    4. Re:Military lock standards by crucini · · Score: 1

      That lock is not resistant to forced entry, which limits it to niche applications. It's used on filing cabinets with a vertical locking bar. Anyone could bust open the cabinet in 30 seconds, but it would leave a trail, which is the point.

      A more robust padlock for general applications is the 833. You can sometimes find these surplus. It may be the most mechanically tough padlock available, and with its Medeco cylinder it's reasonably pick-resistant.

    5. Re:Military lock standards by lhand · · Score: 1

      Actually, well, no you can't.

      A cutting torch works by heating the metal to red hot and then blasting a stream of oxygen causing the metal to actually burn away. In safes and high security locks they use stainless steel which does not burn like regular steel and iron. The cutting torch will get it hot, but it will not burn the metal away in that pretty shower of sparks. You can, however get it really hot with the torch and then use a chisel to cut the metal away; it just takes a while.

  101. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by Holi · · Score: 1

    It's true, I spent years in San Francisco living on the streets and made and used many sets that way.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  102. Re:Here's where you get the metal for lockpicks, f by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've tried this the last 3 times the street sweeper came down our street...brushes running... And I wasn't able to find ANY bristles...not even one! I hunted up and down the street for a long time too.

    Any sugestions for other places to get spring steel like street sweeper bristles?

  103. HA! by Cyclone_TBW · · Score: 0

    And the judge said I would never amount too anything.

    --






    Click HERE
  104. The mother of all F***ups by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1, Insightful

    With all the side discussion about "Ok, what's the best way to secure my house", there's something important to remember.

    Namely, that there *is* such a thing as being too secure.

    Morons who install kevlar window screens, lexan-backed sheetrock, and 50000 spider locks with cross-beams on each door all seem to forget a simple concept -

    Some day, your house (or apartment) will have a fire in it. When that happens, you might need to get out of that structure, through those windows, through those doors. And when you can't (because the fire's been going for a good 4 minutes, there is no visibility, and you're dizzy from the phosgenes, monoxides, and methyl-ethyl-badshits in the atmosphere), the fire dept will need to get IN through those windows, through those doors, and breach through those walls to try to find you, or your kids. Once found, the nearest exit (a window) won't be useable; it's "too secure". They can either wait 9 minutes for an outside crew to find and defeat the "window security" (usually via k12 or chainsaw) and hopefully not run out of air during the wait, or the crew will need to drag the victims through the worst areas of the structure (corridors), exposing them to even higher concentrations of ambient death at 800+ degrees, in order to reach a viable egress point. Either way, it's not going to be a rescue. It'll be a recovery... unless the crew fails to abandon you when they're low on air; then it'll be a dead crew as well.

    So, when you think about securing your house, understand that some day it can kill you (along with any crew that's trying to reach you, since they can get just as trapped by this bullshit once inside). Understand that you're making this tradeoff, and understand that this tradeoff won't seem worth it when that time finally comes.

    Something to think about, at least - meanwhile, back to that book review :)

    --

    help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    1. Re:The mother of all F***ups by Mikeydude750 · · Score: 0

      If you're rich enough to build all that stuff into your house, you would probably install a fire-supressant system as well.

    2. Re:The mother of all F***ups by mvdw · · Score: 1
      Not really, a couple of kids died recently in a house fire here in Queensland, Australia a few weeks ago, simply because the front door to the house was dead-locked and needed the key to open it.

      The security screen door to the front of my house is similar - you can lock it by turning the latch, or with a key. Locking with a key requires the key to unlock it. At night, I make sure I don't use the key to lock it, but lock it just with the latch. Needless to say, in the area I live in, you are more likely to have a house fire than a burglary...

    3. Re:The mother of all F***ups by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but... oh hell, the "doh!" factor is killing me. Rant mode on...

      a) Commercial fire suppression systems don't extinguish fires; they suppress (localize) them for a finite period of time.

      b) Residential fire suppression systems suppress (localize) fires for shorter periods of time, since aesthetics and cost take precedence over function in that market.

      c) Residential fire suppression systems are by definition of lower effectiveness. When's the last time you saw 20gpm sprinkler head in someone's living room, and when's the last time you saw a residential water service that could push 20 gpm, period. Never mind if two heads are tripped... and consider that, assuming an 8 minute response by the fire dept, the average fire will trip about 4 heads IF it is in a sprinkled area. You'd need a water source that can sustain a 100 gallon per minute flow to drive those four heads.

      d) By contrast, current residential codes only require a flow rate of .05 gpm/sq ft. Assuming 8 foot spacing of heads, that'll be... how many gallons per minute for a single head? A little over 3 gallons to cover 64 square feet. Count your calories, do your math, and even assuming a 100% steam conversion rate (which you won't even get close to, since it's pure water and also is not aimed at anything in particular), you're still looking at .05 gallons of water per square foot, over the course of an entire minute. 5 hundreths of a gallon per square foot, PER MINUTE. Exactly how many calories of heat will be consumed per second at that rate, versus the number of calories being produced by the fire?

      e) And again, the average residential water might be able to do 2 gpm, up to 5 gpm. That's enough for one head. It also means that your density goes down as additional heads open up, since they will "steal" flow from those already open.

      f) Your typical house fire will typically have an initial source that's either electrical, wood/cardboard, or "methyl-ethyl-badshit". Sprinklers won't do dick for electrical fires. They work well to protect horizontal wood/cardboard surfaces, but do dick in the vertical plane (and undersides, like in shelving). They also don't do dick for MEB fires, which is what wood/cardboard usually evolves into (in basement areas - paint thinners, gas, cans of WD-40, whatever. Typical temperatures will be upwards of 800 degrees along the smoke path, unless plastics or petrols are involved. In living spaces - anything plastic/petrol based. Carpets, curtains, upholstry, cushions, clothing, electronics. Typical temperatures along the immediate smoke path will be anywhere from 1200 to 2300 degrees, depending on materials. Hopefully, that new magnesium-cased laptop is back at the office.)

      g) Since the sprinkler can only squirt onto things it has a direct shot at, and since the fires never happen in such places, the sprinkler will not put the fire out. The couch / curtain / shelving / wall / whatever will continue to burn inside and underneath, and still produce enough gases to kill a horse. It just won't produce them as quickly in some places, and fire spread will be hampered along those exposed horizontal planes. Are they worth having? Absolutely... they can localize the fire until we get there, and buy you time to get out in one piece. They don't put things out, however.

      h) Fancy Non-Sprinker suppression systems are not going to be found in residential structures, since they require a confined area to function. Somehow, I don't see Mom and Dad dropping $30-50k for an FM200 kit, with auto-closing fire doors separating each area of the house. Any room being protected by such a system must be sealed, including auto-dampers on any HVAC ducting. If a door, window, or duct remains open when the agent is discharged, It's Useless(tm).

      i) "Rich enough to build" has nothing to do with it; these "security" items are intended for the common market - to replace ugly steel bars on windows, to make a wall stronger with more math and less mass

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  105. Odd Texas law by MourningBlade · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Specifically, you cannot carry wire cutters in your back pocket.

    The law dates back to the conflicts between ranchers and farmers near the time of Texas independence. Back then, much of the land was not fenced in, so cattle herders would move their herd around, grazing. Needless to say, the farmers didn't care for that, so they put up barb wire around their lands.

    Incidentally, this is a case of technology exciting a reaction: previously, farmers would've been forced to build a wooden or stone fence, and the areas were very large. A barb wire fence, however, was quick and easy to put up, so they were more likely to put one up.

    Anyways, a lot of the cattle herders didn't care for these fences, so they'd cut through them with wire cutters, and go on through. Many, in fact, took to cutting barb wire fences wherever they saw them.

    So, Texas outlawed casual possession of wire cutters: they can't be in your pocket. They'd better be in a tool box. This is similar to the hassle you'll get from cops if you wander around with a spraypaint bottle poking out of your jacket.

    Anyways, that's the story.

    1. Re:Odd Texas law by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 1
      So, Texas outlawed casual possession of wire cutters: they can't be in your pocket. They'd better be in a tool box.

      Do they actually enforce it anymore?

    2. Re:Odd Texas law by MourningBlade · · Score: 1

      I haven't heard of anyone being busted on this in my lifetime. I suppose they might hit you with it if they thought you looked suspicious and you happened to have some wire cutters on you for some unknown purpose.... But even then, I doubt it. A judge around here would give the prosecutor the "you have got to be kidding me" look, and that would be that.

  106. Some of that Trash Hacking... by Mulletproof · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can we PLEASE stop fixing the word 'hacking' to the hobby of ones choice where it really REALLY holds no relevance?! Hey, tonight I'm microwave hacking, so what sort of TV dinner would you like? We can talk about the sky hacking I'll be doing with my friend's RC plane over the weekend. What? You'll be doing some lawn hacking with your mower? Too bad. After our sky hacking session we were going to do some car hacking and put a spoiler ON MY DAMN CAR.

    Using this word superfluously is starting to take on the characteristics of the word 'kool'; You sound like you have an IQ of 5, so give it a freakin' rest already.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We stole the term from golfers so if you're going to get snitty about it then we should stop using the term since what do computers have to do with golfing?!?

    2. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

      Damn, wish I had some mod points for you. That's all I wanted to say.

    3. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by Various+Assortments · · Score: 2

      I don't think you know what the word "hack" really means.

    4. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by iswm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You sir, are an idiot.

      --
      Buckethead
    5. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by chgros · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, let's go back to making furniture...

    6. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kool! On Slashdot, (Score: 5, IQ) is just about the best you can get!

    7. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by SlashdotMeNow · · Score: 1

      >>so give it a freakin' rest already.

      I think you mean 'Phreaking'.

    8. Re:Some of that Trash Hacking... by abmurray · · Score: 1

      You of course assume that the term "hacking" applies only to computers/programming.

      Which is wrong.

  107. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by ldspartan · · Score: 1

    I've delt with this before in other institutional locking systems (specifically, Best locks at rpi.edu) - the patent on key blanks only lasts 7 years, and given most lock rotations this is long enough. At RPI, only high value buildings (dorms, new buildings) use the patented, newer, high security cores. Older ones, like the one I was responsible for, can be copied anywhere.

    The real security in Medeco is that very few places are equipped to cut medeco keys, and a medeco key looks nothing like a key most people should be legitimately copying.

    --
    Phil

  108. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Not many thieves want to walk around with a bottle of highly concentrated HCL hidden in their pocket. (think spillage while trying to run from the police)
    This was the only part of your post that didn't make sense to me. Haven't humans developed methods for storing liquids safely in containers? I'm picturing a bottle-like structure with some sort of cap. Said cap would affix to the opening of the bottle by some method, possibly screw-based. I know it may sound pretty crazy, but I'm sure I've seen something like that before. (It's humor, not sarcasm!)
  109. Re:I work for a bike parts/accessories wholesaler. by WinterSolstice · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had a bike locked with the top-end kryptonite stolen. The thief then kindly re-attached the kryptonite to the bike rack. When I tried to redeem the "lock guarantee" or whatever that ridiculous thing is called, they called me a liar. They said I didn't lock it properly or some such.

    I will never buy another lock, ever. I only trust my good bike ( A Trek Project One 5500/5600 (the OCLV 110 from a year or two ago) with campy record) to be within reach. My junker is a 1960s Schwin that cost about $60 and is in 4 colors of cheap spray paint. I just tie it in place with a double figure-eight knot :)

    -WS

    --
    An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
  110. AHA !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. By this book
    2. ???
    3. Profit!

  111. Crawling in through windows. by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 1

    But Windows isn't open.

    Oh, I see you go throught the holes in the window!

  112. social engineering a better tool by slew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This all reminds me of my old caltech days when as freshman, everyone seemed to be fascinated with lockpicking...

    And then day, a few of us somehow got the idea to "kidnap" the big-bob statue when we noticed on a late night dining trip it was just made of fibreglass (light enough to carry away) and locked to the sidewalk with a sliding metal rod key padlock.

    Instead of picking the padlock (which we probably could have done very easily as we practiced all the time), my buddy decided to just copy down model number and the serial number and take it to a local locksmith and claim we lost the key to the lock and needed a new key. After some convincing, the locksmith went to the back office and pulled out a book, looked up the serial number, cut us a key with his key cutter by pin-code. We borrowed a convertable one night, unlocked the lock, picked bob up, and brought him back to campus. And nobody had to keep lookout why we were attempting to pick the lock... That didn't turn out so well (although caltech laywers were on our side, the big-boy corporation wasn't very amused by our humorous note and eventually we negociated a return in exchange for a no prosecution agreement, but I digress).

    Sometime later in life, I ended up losing the only set of keys to my car during a business trip (I gave the other set to my friend who was out of town that weekend). Angry at myself, I took a cab home and fumed for a couple hours. Then thinking back to my college days, I hitched a ride to nearest car dealer (of the same make, but not the same one I bought the car from, don't want to single a vendor out for a security lapse) told the guy in the replacement parts department I lost my car key, but I knew the VIN code to the car (duh, you can see that through the windscreen), he looked up the VIN code in their national database (I bought my car new) found my name, I showed him my ID and he then cut me a key by pin code and I had a brand spanking new key to my car. If I was a bit more convincing, I'll bet I could have convinced him to do it for me even w/o an id, by just knowing the name of the original owner...

    The lesson I learned from all this is that the most essential tool for most things is often just your mouth (and chutzpah) when it comes to locks...

  113. There are better key locks, but they are rare by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative
    You don't see lever locks much any more, but that's a better approach. The key raises a set of hinged levers. Each lever rotates a plate with a slot, and when the slots line up, a bail drops into them, unlocking the lock. In some designs, the turn of the key locks the levers before it drops the bail, so you can't manipulate the levers once the bail is touching the slots.

    Lever locks have the combination component one step removed from the input component, which makes them harder to force. If you try to force a lever lock, you may trash the levers, but that won't open the lock.

    Safe deposit boxes are traditionally lever locks, although not always very good ones. Jail locks are usually level locks of massive size.

    Lever locks are usually big rectangular boxes, unsuitable for embedding in a door. So they're not used much unless serious security is required, as in a jail.

    1. Re:There are better key locks, but they are rare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very interesting, that was a question in the back of my mind while reading all these "everything is so easy" comments and I was wondering about places like prisons.

  114. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by aminorex · · Score: 1

    I think you can carry legally in every state, by virtue of the "full faith and credit" clause of the
    Constitution. Not that it would necessarily matter what the law was, in a court. Obviously, I'm not a
    lawyer, or I would have blown my own head off long ago.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  115. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by Cosmos_7 · · Score: 0

    You might want to take a better look at which states allow you to carry and which don't.

    Tennessee's official record states reciprocity with 11 states, and lists another 16 states recognize the Tennessee permit, for a total of 27.

  116. Abloy by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

    Assa Abloy is a Swedish company that manufactures some of the hardest locks in the world to pick.

    1. Re:Abloy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Up here in Redwood country, the Timber Companies use locked gates to keep out protestors. They uniformly prefer Abloy disc locks to Medeco because the Medeco is easier to jam with, say, a matchstick broken off inside.

  117. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1
    There are various grades of Medeco cylinders. While the one you found may have had brass tumblers, I've stumbled across some where the tumblers were made of carbide or similar metal. The face of the cylinder also had carbide inserts at strategic points to impede drilling of the lock.

    Got into the lockpicking thing years ago while in the Navy. ( Had to learn SOMETHING floating on the ocean for months at a time ) After a lot of practice, I found I could rip through the majority of locks in very short order. Those that I could not ( Medeco, Abloy, and a few others ) I usually took apart to learn why.

    The higher dollar locks usually have tighter tolerances, pick resistant tumblers, and exotic or very tough metals to contend with to resist cutting.

    Of course, the locks like the Medeco cylinder I described above are only as useful as the structure they are attached to. You don't put high dollar cylinders on a hollow core door. :) The Medeco I was able to look at was one of the locks on a Tomahawk Cruise Missile Armored Box Launcher. Beating the door off that thing was out of the question, as was any climbing through a window theories. That was my official cover in the Navy. Tomahawk Weapons Control System Tech. In reality I was a super-geek ninja-locksmith. :)

    It's a damn nice skill to learn and understand. Though you get the evil eye from the local locksmith if you walk in and start talking about mushroom pins, rake picks, and the like. It gives you an insight on why most locks simply keep the honest folk honest. :)

  118. only trust combination locks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With a little knowledge and NO training, I picked every lock in my house except the front door with just a straight hairpin and an L shaped hairpin in about a minute for each lock.

    Every lock we used at a US military contractor for secret documents was a COMBINATION LOCK.

    My conclusion? Trust only combination locks.

    Never did pick that front door, tho.

  119. Don't use a CVS brand combo lock! by What'sInAName · · Score: 1

    Heh, I've always been very interested in this kind of stuff. I even got my hands on a couple of lockpicks back in my late high-school/early college days. I never managed to open door locks, but I could get into a file cabinet (and more usefully, the parent's liquor cabinet!) handily enough. Actually, I already had a workaround for the liquor cabinet, but developing this skill meant that I no longer had to unscrew/reattach the door! =-)

    Anyway, I bought a cheap CVS combo lock (For those not in the know, CVS is a pharmacy/chemist that in addition sells other health products, such as cigarettes, in addition to other miscellaneous crap) to put on my locker at the health club. I was just playing with it right now, to see if the "Master Lock Cracking Widget" would apply to it. Well, I'm reading the article and playing with it and the fucking thing comes open in my hand! What a fluke, I figure. Not so. To open it, I merely have to pull on the lock while I turn the dial clockwise a few turns (hearing numerous clicks along the way). I then reverse direction and turn the dial CCW for a bit. You'll feel the U bar release a tiny bit as you do this, and if you keep turning, the fucking thing will spread open like a two-dollar whore!

    Oh well, I suppose I'll have to get another lock when I get the chance. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, based on the quality of other CVS branded crap I've had to deal with.

  120. Re:I work for a bike parts/accessories wholesaler. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    About 15 years ago, I remember locks on Kryptonites could be drilled out quite quickly. The bars themselves are sure solid, but the lock cores, at least at that time, were made of a relatively soft metal.

    The reason I mention this here is that if you had trouble with their "Lock Guarantee," you could have just drilled out the lock yourself, and sent it in damaged. A bit dishonest, but it would be for the right reason.

    I reckon the bike thief used more conventional lock-picking tools.

  121. Thought cops couldn't search you just for speeding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I wrong? Or can they?

  122. Re:I work for a bike parts/accessories wholesaler. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For what its worth, I fell really bad for you. It must suck. As a mountain bike enthusiast (yours must a been a road bike with Compagnalo..?), I know that bike is not only worth a lot of money but its worth a lot of good memories. Same analogy can be made with a motorcycle or car.

    I've never had a bike stolen. I've kept my good bike out of site until I ride it.

  123. Re:I work for a bike parts/accessories wholesaler. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When I tried to redeem the "lock guarantee" or whatever that ridiculous thing is called, they called me a liar. They said I didn't lock it properly or some such.

    It is standard practice, for insurance companies for example, to initially state that the claim is denied (for some given reason).

    You need to push the issue and threaten legal action to get them to pay up.

    These companies try the first tack, because MANY people just give up there and then. It never gets to a legal point because it is not worth it for them. If you are right and you push the issue, you will probably get your money.

  124. 30, thanks for asking by Scratch-O-Matic · · Score: 1
    One night when I was home alone and bored in high school, I memorized pi to 30 decimal places AND practiced until I could type it out in 5 seconds on a ten-key adding machine.

    /never got laid in high school

    --


    Evil is the money of root.
    1. Re:30, thanks for asking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re:30, thanks for asking

      Don't feel bad.
      But if you haven't had sex before you're 40, you might wanna try a prostitute.

  125. Here's a winner site by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2, Informative
    Here's a winner website:

    http://www.lockpicking101.com/.

    Plenty of forums on lock-picking...

  126. actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is really impressioning. just like opening "dimple" locks with foil wrapped deep cut blanks.

  127. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And what useful job can a gun do?

    Screwdrivers, hammers and lockpicks have a legitimate purpose in everyday life. Guns don't.

  128. FYI for all those scared... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of having your locks picked open; picking is the least likely way for someone to get your property. you can buy all the expensive, anti-pick locks, have them professionally installed, only to have them drilled out, or the door hinges taken off, or a hackaw taken to the shackle or any number of easier, more efficient ways to get in to places. theives don't care about not damaging your locks.

  129. Fun stuff with Lockpicking... by Ezmate · · Score: 2

    10 years ago, I stumbled across the MIT lock-picking guide. After reading through it, I found a place in town to purchase some lock picks. "The Spy Store" was a place with all sorts of interesting items: hidden cameras (way before nanny cams became common), knife pens, offers for armoring your vehicle, brass knuckles, hidden tape recorders, parabolic microphones, bugging equipment, and of course, lock picks (interestingly enough, they were shut down a few years later for selling items that were only supposed to go to law enforcement officials).

    Anyway, armed with only what I had read, I got home to my cheap little apartment, and proceeded to pick my house lock in 15 seconds - without ever picking a lock before. Needless to say, I was both amazed and scared.

    Over the next few weeks I practiced my new found skill on all sorts of locks and learned a wonderful secret about corporate America: their locks aren't cheap, but are generally keyed 2-3 different ways (1 security key could open all locks in the building, each floor had a floor "warden" who possessed a key to get into any office on that floor, and of course, my own personal key) making them very easy to pick.

    I had a guy in my office that loved to play pranks on people. One day, I noticed that he had left his car (Toyata Celica) in the parking garage overnight. Of course, he had it secured with one of those fancy devices known as "The Club". I eyeballed the car & thought, "what the hell...let's see what I can do." I was able to pick the outside lock after lots of effort. Once inside, I was amazed at how quickly "The Club" opened up to me...20 seconds (my first attempt on the club). The ignition lock was very tough & I was never able to pick it. After some thinking, I realized that a manual transmission car could be pushed around the parking garage, as long as I was careful not to lock the wheel. In the end (after some serious pushing back & forth) I had moved the car 20 parking spots down and on the other side of the garage. I locked the Club back into position, locked the door, & went home.

    The next day, he came into the office with a really freaked out look on his face. He told people that he thought someone had the keys to his car & was using it. After letting him sweat it out for the rest of the day, I told him the truth. He was a little pissed, but was able to get a chuckle out of it.

    From that day forward, anytime someone (even my boss) had lost a key, they'd just come see me.

    The MIT Lockpicking guide is a nice starter on lockpicking. Give it a look if you have the chance.

  130. Re:fun links about lock vulnerabily/Love those ads by ChairmanMeow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While the relevance is good, I'm guessing they don't sell many locks on that page.

    On the contrary, they probably sell lots of locks to people practicing their lock-picking.

    --
  131. Re:Nothing's unpickable - how big a mess do you wa by Chucklz · · Score: 1

    AFAIK, and I do indeed know, Medeco locks can be picked. Tools do exist, and you can make them yourself if you have a decent clue.

  132. Re:Legal Issue!! If you own lockpicks, please READ by Chucklz · · Score: 1

    Hmm. Obviously you are NOT a Lawyer. In every State statute concerning burglary instruments I have read (40 or so) INTENT is a necessary element to be charged. In some states, possession may be considered prima facie evidence of intent. I am also not a lawyer, so caveat lector!

  133. Re:I work for a bike parts/accessories wholesaler. by WinterSolstice · · Score: 1

    Good point. I'll try this in the future.

    -WS

    --
    An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
  134. Additional Reading by Baby+Duck · · Score: 2, Funny
    --

    "Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins

  135. Bad idea by theLOUDroom · · Score: 0

    Just use a magnetic lock.

    Actually, those are a pretty bad idea.

    (I have a couple BTW).

    The problem is that it's just too damned easy to make an automated, electronic pick. (Imagine a set of coils being driven by a binary counter.)

    I might even be possible to take just one big electromagnet and make all the pins oscillate so fast you could just pull the shackle and it would open itself.

    One of the huge problems on the magnetic lock that I own is that there's not enough physical restriction. The key isnt inserted into the lock, it's pressed up against the side. This means that my bank of electromagnets can be of virtually unlimted size so long as the area of interest matches up with the side of the lock.

    --
    Life is too short to proofread.
    1. Re:Bad idea by greg_barton · · Score: 1

      I knew there had to be a catch. I first saw one of these about 15 years ago. If they were any good they'd have caught on by now. I'm just a karma whore. :)

  136. Few lockpicks in DC? Unlikely. by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 1

    Also, the book suggests that there might be a lock-picking group in every city in the U.S., when in fact I am having a difficult time finding one in my are. And I live near D.C. -- You'd think there would be one on every corner around here.

    You'd probably be right in that assumption. Your problem is, you're assuming that all the people in the DC area that know how to pick locks are willing to flaunt this ability. 3-letter agents (CIA, NSA, etc), spies from every country in the world, etc, aren't likely to join these groups, even though they're likely to be masters.

    --
    Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
  137. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    shoot you in the face

  138. Re:Legal Issue!! If you own lockpicks, please READ by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

    Cops can't search you for speeding. If you let them do it, you're the fool. Or the victim of an evil officer, who doesn't work by the book, in which case a complaint would be in place.

    --
    Eat the rich.
  139. California Lockpicking Law by PatJensen · · Score: 1
    California law states:

    "466. Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slidehammer, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun, tubular lock pick, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool with intent feloniously to break or enter into any building, railroad car, aircraft, or vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle Code, or who shall knowingly make or alter, or shall attempt to make or alter, any key or other instrument named above so that the same will fit or open the lock of a building, railroad car, aircraft, vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle Code, without being requested to do so by some person having the right to open the same, or who shall make, alter, or repair any instrument or thing, knowing or having reason to believe that it is intended to be used in committing a misdemeanor or felony, is guilty of a misdemeanor. Any of the structures mentioned in Section 459 shall be deemed to be a building within the meaning of this section."

    I interpret this as owning lockpicks are legal, using them to commit a crime is a misdemeanor. Complete lockpicking laws - From FindLaw.

    Pat

  140. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by StressedEd · · Score: 1

    Guns are tools, like screwdrivers, hammers and lockpicks.

    The big difference is that screwdrivers are not designed with the main aim of killing people. Guns generally are.

    --
    Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
  141. why not mpg! by earthstar · · Score: 0

    what is the advantage of using quicktime?
    would hav been easier if Mpg format is used....
    Is quick time present in all computers?Ugh! got tta install for this one video!?

  142. got me sold... by zxflash · · Score: 1

    it's always nice to read these books to see what exploits are availabe and what locks sould be avoided... remember seeing a hope 2k lock picking presentation in which a lock that was supposedly unpickable was defeaded with a moded key and some tape... so it's always good to stay on the up and up...

    --

    All the torrents you could want.
  143. Talk about a misdirected rant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In many other cases, I would have agreed with you. But in the case of lock picking, you're patently and obviously wrong. The analogy between hacking an unsecure box and breaking into an unsecure home (or whatever) is pretty freaking obvious. Additionally, there are extreme strong ties between the lock picking and the hacker culture. They both originated at MIT at the same time and they were both done by the same group of people.

    You just have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And, what's worse, you're a complete and utter moron who just made a damn fool of yourself. You don't belong here.

  144. Go To Amazon To Purchase Book. BN are out by DougChick · · Score: 1

    BN are out of Steel Bolt Hacking, you can go the either Amazon.com for my website; www.thenetworkadministrator.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0974 463019/qid%3D1080745422/sr%3D1-2/102-3163875-26233 55 Doug Chick

  145. Follow someone else in by fizbin · · Score: 1

    This probably won't work for military installations, and also not for perimeter guards, but once you're past the heavily guarded perimeter and going through the weaker internal security boundaries (doors where you have to punch a combination, or internal key-carded doors), just act like you belong there and just "happen" to be coming along at the moment when someone else is just going through the door. Holding the door for someone else is a natural habbit, and one that can only be broken by large amounts of rigorous security instruction. (e.g. college campuses that just have electronic card locks and not guards are wide open to almost any person of approximately the right age)

  146. No need for bike lock with Brompton folding bike by KWTm · · Score: 1

    I use a Brompton folding bike and don't use a lock. It comes with me wherever I go. You don't need a lock when the bike is collapsible into a volume that fits under your office chair. (I'd post a link to my web page showing the photos as it folds, but my web hoster would strangle me for slashdotting their site.)

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
  147. You don't need to follow -- they remain by GlobalEcho · · Score: 1

    I've made picks from the bristles, and have some comments:

    (1) You don't need to follow the sweeper. It's not like anything *else* comes by to sweep away the bristles! Just walk along the edge looking for them.
    (2) The bristles are hard to perceive at first; it's something about what your mind is trained to see. It may take 30 mins to find your first one. 5 minutes for your second. Then you'll see them all over! An interesting side effect is, after your mind is trained, you can't *help* but see them all over. Your friends will think you are weird for constantly stopping and picking them up.
    (3) The bristles make excellent torsion wrenches, but IMO are not sufficiently broad to carve down into picks suitable for some of the longer reaches necessary in door locks (if you have a short pin behind a long one). They're fine for push-up-and-release though.
    (4) Usually the bristles have, at most, surface rust. Use sandpaper to clean them up.

  148. Re:Legal Issue!! If you own lockpicks, please READ by Banner · · Score: 1

    No I am not a lawyer. However, I do know what the law says in many states about this.

  149. Re:Legal Issue!! If you own lockpicks, please READ by Banner · · Score: 1

    I may be wrong on this, because the law has changed several times due to challenges in the Supreme Court, etc. However I do believe that a Cop who pulls you over for any 'valid' reason, can search you and your car. I don't think it's right, but I do believe that is currently the law.

    If you can show otherwise, please do, I really would like to see it. I'd love to be wrong on this one.

  150. Faulty lock story made the Chicago Tribune by NonGeekMoron · · Score: 1

    Just saw a story related to this on the Tribune website http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/orl-bk-bi kelock091604,1,2104099.story?coll=chi-technology-h ed Slashdot influences the world!

  151. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by The+Conductor · · Score: 1
    Not quite. A state must recognize convictions and accept other states records (like birth records) as evidence. But the manner by which a state must accept exogenous licensure is defined by Congress. An example of this is the 1996 "Defense of Marriage" Act, which says that states need not recognize marriages of couples not elgible to marry in that state. There have been proposals for concealed-carry reciprocity legislation in Congress, that would require states to accept concealed carry permits from other states if concealed carry is legal within that state. This would help (help gun toters, that is) in places like L.A. where concealed carry is technically legal, but it is impossible to get a permit unless you are politically connected.

    Art IV, Sec. 1
    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

  152. A good Lockpicking Fiction book... by sjs132 · · Score: 1

    "Nobody's Safe" by Richard Steinberg - Bantam softback = $6.50

    Basically a guy that is REALLY good at picking locks, and is a "off the radar" burglar acidently robs the wrong safe.... witnesses a murder and finds out the goverment DOES have secrets in Area 51 and he plans on picking his way in to figure out why the government is hiding the aliens...

    Ok, I really thought it was a good book till the alien part got mixed in... But hey, it's fiction... Lots of interesting locks but I'm sure most of it is just bs.... but besides normal analog locks, he also has to face wired doors, a sismic sensor laden deser floor, IR detectors, etc...

    Of course I'm sure that it's a coincidence that the evil senator that is running for Pres and has known about the aliens all of career, is named "Kerry" but it was published 1999, so go figure... :)

    --
    --- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
  153. not anarchists, just dipshits by SethJohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those are true dipshits. Not anarchists. Anarchists shouldn't be jealous of other peoples' material possessions. If they are, then they are increasing the scope of those who oppress them.

    Great. Destroy someones' bicycle. Encourage them to drive a car. Way to go "anarchists." You really have fucked the system now!

  154. Re:Legal issues - Firearms by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 1

    Self defense and the defence of others seems a useful function. To me, at least.

    YMMV...

  155. Kryptonite response: Rebate or replacement by ajna · · Score: 2, Informative
    Kryptonite has responded to all this recent brouhaha (I'd hate to work there this week!) with a replacement program for locks 2 years old and newer and a rebate program for locks older than that. Details can be found at their slow and ugly http://www.kryptonitelock.com/ site or via the businesswire mirror of the press release.

    Relevant paragraphs for the lazy:

    Consumers who have purchased an Evolution lock, KryptoLok lock, New York Chain, New York Noose, Evolution Disc Lock, KryptoDisco or DFS Disc Lock in the last two years are eligible for a product upgrade free of charge from Kryptonite. Customers will need to have either registered their key number, registered for the Kryptonite anti-theft protection offer or have proof of purchase to qualify.

    Specifically, Kryptonite will provide for free cross bars featuring the company's new disc-style cylinder lock technology to consumers who have purchased Evolution and KryptoLok series products. In addition the company will replace for free recently purchased Evolution Disc Locks on New York Chain and New York Noose with its "Molly Lock", a heavy duty solid steel padlock. Kryptonite also will upgrade recently purchased disc locks.

    Consumers who have had one of the Kryptonite locks mentioned with a tubular cylinder for longer than two years will be eligible for a sizeable rebate on the upgraded products. This program will be administered through Kryptonite dealers and distributors.