Considering Watercooling Your PC?

An anonymous reader writes "Thinking of taking the plunge into water cooling your PC? These guys have rounded up three systems ranging from cheap and cheerful, to stylish and pricey."

Comments

I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[stecoop]

I once thought peltiers would be great with water cooling but we read on /. the other day that these devices are 5% efficient so that's a no.

Water-cooling has a few kinks like electricity near water and corrosion - at least a few years ago that may be solved no days with Antifreeze but you still are at the mercy of the ambient room temperature. It's finicky enough that you couldn't build a machine with water cooling and leave it in a room for 3 years so that leaves a hole in reliability as I couldn't leave my machines on while going away for two weeks on vacation unless I didn't mind rolling the dice to seeing fire trucks at my home.

Considering Water-cooling Your PC? This was the leader I was until I saw a home made active cooling system. I first saw active cooling systems from http://www.vapochill.com/ (website down?) and have been waiting for someone to take an AC compressor and attach it to a computer case. It seems that were just on the verge of DIYers of achieving satisfactory results in active cooling systems; therefore, I will hang on to old reliable (the passive radiators) until I can muscle up the nerve to go the active cooling route.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

www.koolance.com
I use an older version of their product on my home linux firewall / server.

It runs 24/6.5 without issue.
Water cooling is stable; as long as you make sure you have no leaks as you assemble.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[deacon]

The Peltiers we tested in the lab needed the same amount of electrical power as the amount of heat they moved..So much better than 5 %, but it doubles the thermal load on your heatsink.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[death_cheese]

Did anyone else look at the pictures of the home made system and instantly think of the air conditioning system in the movie Brazil?

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[gl4ss]

it depends on what you're looking for(silent efficiency).

*didn't mind rolling the dice to seeing fire trucks at my home.* watercooling isn't really that much worse off than 'traditional' cooling in that sense in most of cases. the chances of it catching fire are pretty much the same(hell, dustfilled normal hs might be more fire prone anyways).

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[delus10n0]

I don't understand why people use anti-freeze in their computer water cooling systems-- it's not going to be all that more efficient at cooling than say, distilled water, and with some water additive for your distilled water, you don't have to worry about corrosion or rusting.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[EaterOfDog]

Haha! I usually think the same thing when I see some places wiring closets. What a great movie that is.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[silverdr]

Water-cooling has a few kinks like electricity near water

So what? What kind of kink is in that? We are talking about water. Not salted water nor mineral water - just pure water (H2O). As pure as possible.

and corrosion

What corrosion? We are talking about water. Not salted water nor mineral water - just pure water (H2O). As pure as possible. This one is non-corrosive, non-electrolythic and as cheap as coke. If you chose tap water (which is far from being a pure H2O) as your coolant - it's your own choice, risk and kink.

[...]but you still are at the mercy of the ambient room temperature.

So what? What is the "mercy"? Isn't the same "mercy" valid when air-dust-noise cooling?

It's finicky enough that you couldn't build a machine with water cooling and leave it in a room for 3 years so

I wouldn't leave a fan-cooled machine for three years without attention either. Your fans can get stuck, worn out etc., can't they? What's so finicky here?

that leaves a hole in reliability as I couldn't leave my machines on while going away for two weeks on vacation unless I didn't mind rolling the dice to seeing fire trucks at my home.

Huh... at least water is a well-known fire extiguishing medium. Your pc can have it's own, automatic extinguishing system when it starts to burn. The same can't be said about broken fans... :-)

No. There is no hole unless you choose the wrong coolant and/or cooling block. Choose wisely (the same as with CPU fans), install with proper care and attention to detiails and there is no higher risk at all. I keep my machines running all the time, doing intensive computing and server activities. That's why I chose water-cooling: to cut the noise. All I do is add a little water (you know, which one) every couple of months...

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[ModernGeek]

I couldn't leave my machines on while going away for two weeks on vacation unless I didn't mind rolling the dice to seeing fire trucks at my home.

Makes me think of the time we were at the firedepartment, we went out to draft some ponds and look for good places to take water from since there are no hydrants in the district. You should have seen the look on this one ladys face when there were about 5 fire trucks in front of her house, and a bunch of firemen just standing around.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[DerekLyons]

So what? What kind of kink is in that? We are talking about water. Not salted water nor mineral water - just pure water (H2O). As pure as possible.

It won't stay pure very long unless your entire cooling systems is made entirely of inert materials. Pure H2O is a damm efficient solvent.

What corrosion? We are talking about water. Not salted water nor mineral water - just pure water (H2O). As pure as possible. This one is non-corrosive, non-electrolythic and as cheap as coke. If you chose tap water (which is far from being a pure H2O) as your coolant - it's your own choice, risk and kink.

Unless your water is produced, stored, and transferred with extreme care, and under inert conditions, you *will* have some atmospheric H2 and O2 in it.

I recently read of the failure of a large commercial cooling system... Al heatsinks and Cu radiators seperated by Tygon tubing, filled with deionzed water. Seems pretty straightforward right? Pure water, and the two metals electrically isolated....

Small amounts of contaminants in the copper dissolved in the water, along with a small amount of copper... Which then precipitated out on the walls of the Al tubes. *wham* Instant electrolytic corrosion.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[silverdr]

Yup. You are right. It is possible. That's why I wrote the attention to the details is required. For long-term, heavy-duty operation it is even more important. Still - for the current, average pc lifespan choosing passive piping, well isolated pump and a well-made, single-metal cooling block with the same metal used for connecting rods should be enough for the cooling system to live longer than the pc itself :-) As additional precaution one can use the redistilled water and replace it - say - once in a year as some people (including /me) do.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[Firethorn]

And better yet, there are conditioners that you can put in to prevent this. Antifreeze contains them, however the temperature range is more limited for computer cooling, so you can go without the glycol (or equivalent). Even if you go with 100% of one metal, there could still be enough difference to cause problems over time.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[Deadstick]

Water-cooling has a few kinks like electricity near water and corrosion

I have a water-cooled device in my driveway that has electricity near water, corrosion and gasoline...and it seems to work. So does the computer in it.

rj

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

...but you still are at the mercy of the ambient room temperature.

And traditional air cooling isn't? Using liquid cooling and moving out of the case and using a dissipator that has a surface area MANY times that of a regular heatsink is FAR more efficient. For one, you can have the radiator outside the case where heat gets trapped (even with the best airflow, u'r still at the mercy of the ambient temp., but at least you're not at the mercy of the ambient case temp.)

It's finicky enough that you couldn't build a machine with water cooling and leave it

Finicky? I've seen (some my own) more aircooled systems die due to various reasons (everything to dust, fan failures, cpu frying, etc.) than I have with my one watercooled system. Hell, it's infinitely better....well...DIV0 times better that is.

And also.....u can even use a refridgator as your case (just don't turn it on until it gets cold and don't open it until it returns to ambient temp or condensation will form....a way to minimize this is to have dehydration compounds like silica gel and/or calcium carbonate or even baking soda in the fridge too). The system in the fridge can be watercooled too if you want.

As for corrosion, only if you're stupid enough to not use distilled (pure) water and/or mix dissimilar metals in the system (copper and aluminum, etc.). Of course, changing the water once in a while (I just changed it after 18 months of trouble-free operation).

Of course, there are some disadvantages. Cost is one of them. Air bubbles in the system is another (though that can be resolved with glass marbles in the reservoir which block air bubbles from continuously looping). And another is that water wetter smells ...well....fishy.

Re:I'm past thinking about water-cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

it's own, automatic extinguishing system

"its".

Why water?

[BeerCat]

OK, so water is cheap, but why not go for materials with better cooling properties (like in a fridge), which would be more efficient?

Something that is non-destructive to PCBs if it leaks would also be a bonus.

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you used a fridge there would obviously be major problems with condenstation. I guess the main selling points of water cooling is that it's better than air and it's not as expensive as something like VapoChill. . .Plus it looks damn cool with some UV die :)

Re:Why water?

[deacon]

OK, so water is cheap, but why not go for materials with better cooling properties (like in a fridge), which would be more efficient? Something that is non-destructive to PCBs if it leaks would also be a bonus.

Water has excellent heat transfer properties, (better than the refrigrants in your fridge), is easy to handle, unlike some of the better heat transfer fluids such as liquid metals, and is non toxic.

If you want to immerse your computer, Flourinert has been around forever, though now probably banned.

Re:Why water?

[Ironsides]

Refridgerators use a heat pump which has an efficiency of about 5%. Thats not acceptable for cooling processors which output 100W. You would need a power supply specifically for your cooler.

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

Too cold would eventually cause water vapour in the environment to condense in the system.

Re:Why water?

[pclminion]

Water is a much better coolant than your typical refrigerant. The reason water is not used, however, is because its boiling point is far too high.

Re:Why water?

[Enigma_Man]

I thought refrigerators (sp) had efficiencies up closer to 60%...

-Jesse

Re:Why water?

[tuba_dude]

I took care of the condensation problem the easy way. I can have it as cold as I want without a problem. The fix: Live in the Desert! It's rained once since I've moved here, and the air filter in my case means dust isn't much of an issue.

Re:Why water?

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Vapor-phase cooling can cool a CPU below the ambient temperature, and it's not "5% efficent".

There is a 12V Vapochill system that requires only 6.6A, and it is quite effective at cooling even the P4 Prescott (not nearly as effective as the AC versions of the same product, though).

Re:Why water?

[WormholeFiend]

yea but the vapochill system would reduce the amount of disposable money I have to a point below an acceptable threshold.

Re:Why water?

[pclminion]

Flourinert has been around forever, though now probably banned.

Maybe if it was called Chlorinert, since it is chlorine that damages ozone, not fluorine. Fluorinert is perfectly safe.

Re:Why water?

[deacon]

Ahh, but only at atmospheric pressure.

A sealed chamber with only water and water vapor in it (all air and other non-condensible gasses have been removed) will boil water at the hot end and recondense it at the cold end, at any temp above freezing for the water.

If the chamber is a vertical tube with the water and the heat source at the bottom, and fins and cooling air at the top end, the vapor from the hot end will recondense at the top cold end and run back down. (It's really a heat pipe without the porous media to move the condesed fluid back to the hot side.)

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, yeah, fluorine is perfectly safe...

Right.

That's why they use double-redundant piping for HF in fabs.

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to immerse your computer, Flourient [sic] has been around forever, though now probably banned.

Actually, it's still quite legal, albeit very expensive. We buy buckets of the stuff for our MRI scans - MRI detects hydrogen, and since Fluorinert has none, it's a perfect background substance when scanning tissue samples.

Didn't even know you computer geeks used it for cooling/cleaning 'til I started reading slashdot.

Re:Why water?

[pclminion]

Safe for the OZONE LAYER. Look at the context before spewing.

Re:Why water?

[erick99]

The best gas-compression refridgerators are about 40% efficient.

Re:Why water?

[Game Genie]

I refrigerator keeps things (like food) that do not generate heat cool. If you put a constant heat source (like a computer) in a refrigerator it will heat up the refrigerator much faster than the compressor can cool it. You just invernted the oven.

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is very efficient at cash transfer too.

Re:Why water?

[holderofthering]

I agree why use water when you can do this:http://www.overclockers.com/tips1156/

Re:Why water?

[technos]

You just invernted the oven.

Now, you will agree with me that even a small air conditioner will cool a room with your PC in it as cold as you would like it, no?

Now consider a mid-size refridgerator.
1. Rated for similar BTU to your average entry level AC unit.
2. Cools a smaller space than a room.
3. Cools a better insulated space than a room.

Now why would the refridgerator have any trouble at all with a PC? Perhaps the fact that the refridgerator typically runs 5%-10% of the time, tops, and a single hot plate of food is not enough to inspire fear in the grand scheme of the refridgerators temperature dial has confused you a little?

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

Something that is non-destructive to PCBs if it leaks would also be a bonus.

uhm... does this mean that you want your PolyChloronated BiPhenyl's to be left intact?

Re:Why water?

[Anonymous Coward]

Printed Circuit Boards

Acronyms suck.

Re:Why water?

[BeerCat]

Um. Technically, it's brilliant (and has the same "Why" factor as running *). But, come on. It's a bit "Scrapheap Challenge / Junkyard Wars" when it comes to looks...[picky mode off. Lie mode on. Well Mr Rimmer, you are a total Smeeeeee Heeeeeee]



* Hmm. Must try that with my old Centris 610...

Re:Why water?

[Captain DaFt]

Wow! If nothing else, it'd really look cool!
(Kinda like one of the old wurlitzer jukeboxes!)

Re:Why water?

[Deadstick]

Because it's not just a matter of pouring the water out and the refrigerant in. Refrigeration requires a compressor and high-pressure plumbing. Much bigger capital investment, and not very cost-effective on the small scale of a PC.

rj

cheerful?

[wankledot]

That has to be the strangest adjective I've heard for any piece of gear, especially a watercooling system.

Maybe it's a japanese one...

Super Lucky Best Cheerful Watercooler 100% !@#!@# ^_^

Re:cheerful?

[smooth wombat]

If you think that sounds odd, and believe it might be japanese, maybe you should read this to see how things are really done in Japan.

Re:cheerful?

[radish]

"cheap & cheerful" is a common British phrase which basically means "not expensive or fancy but it does the job".

Re:cheerful?

[wankledot]

I love odd little british phrases like that, thanks for clearing things up.

Re:cheerful?

[ziggy_zero]

What would be a better adjective.....bubbly?

(sorry)

Re:cheerful?

[mindhaze]

That Japan Times article is funny, the problem, though, is that I have friends that follow the same routine, or, at least they seem to follow the same routine... one can never really tell.

Anyway, overall it's actually quite tiresome hanging out with them because they are constantly complimenting/criticizing things that you say.

watercooling

[Large Bogon Collider]

The major hangup I have about watercooling systems is fault tolerance. How the the whole system handle 1) pump failure, 2) water leak, 3) coolant loss, etc without destroying the PC, or worse, starting a fire.

Re:watercooling

[The Asmodeus]

How is this different than a heat sink + fan? If the fan gives out, you're toast.

Re:watercooling

[Minwee]

The same way your air cooled system handles fault tolerance -- The onboard hardware monitor detects a high CPU or motherboard temperature and shuts it down.

After looking at how CPUs handle faulty heat sinks, you would think that having a large supply of water nearby would be a good thing.

Re:watercooling

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect, it would be better then if you had a fan failure. Remember that unless its underpresser water won't heat beyond 212F unless you put enough energy in to vaporize. It also becomes pretty vicus as it becomes warm, so convection will cause it to circulate to some degree, as will very slow boil where its not so fast that a layer of vapor separates the water from its contact with the cpu. So basicly very worst case senerio your cpu hits 212F, water has a very high specific heat, so if you have a decent sized radiator and a resonably large fluid volume, I would be really suprised if it got hotter then that.

Re:watercooling

[Greyfox]

Why not use heat pipes to duct the heat into a passive resivoir? Sure, it might take some work to get the heat pipes bent the way you want 'em to fit in the case, but once that's out of the way it should be pretty smooth sailing. You won't have to worry about moving parts breaking, and you won't have to have running water in close proximity to your electronic components.

Re:watercooling

[Large Bogon Collider]

Semi-true. In many newer processors, if the fan gives out, the CPU on-die heat sensor throttles back power consumption to prevent overheating. However, with a HS+fan, there is only one point of failure, the fan. With watercooling (which I have thought long and hard about), the fan can fail, the tubes can crack/leak/break, the connectors and fail, the pump can fail, corrosion can block the waterblock, etc. These are not just hypothetical situation - they have happened. The scariest part is if the water leaks and shorts out something expensive - esp. the CPU and graphics card (which is usually sitting directly below the CPU). I would be upset if the cooling system caused a fire, but would be even more so if insurance decided not to cover it because of my modifications.

Re:watercooling

[Zangief]

If you are running BeOS, you can program fault tolerance into software, through intellligent use of the system calls "isComputerOn" and "isComputerOnFire". The first returns 1 if the computer is on, undetermined if not. isComputerOnFire returns 0 if the computer is not on fire, or the motherboard temperature if not.

Re:watercooling

[The Asmodeus]

Corrosion should not happen. Not in the lifetime of your system anyways. Distilled water + anti-corrosion type additive should see to that in closed loop system.

These systems must have UL approval right? If so, I don't think your insurance company would be able to say jack if you didn't just grossly mis-install it. But, since it involves water + electronics, I wonder about requirements of a GFCI circuit.

Re:watercooling

[Hatta]

If you are running BeOS, you can program fault tolerance into software, through intellligent use of the system calls "isComputerOn" and "isComputerOnFire". The first returns 1 if the computer is on, undetermined if not. isComputerOnFire returns 0 if the computer is not on fire, or the motherboard temperature if not.

Great, now we just need a serial port controlled fire extinguisher.

Re:watercooling

[SHiVa0]

1) Waterleaks: The computer will freeze...
2) Pump failure: The CPU temp will raise gently until your BIOS shutdown the PC by itself
3) Coolant loss: see #2

I ran into all those problems.
ie: Forgetting to turn the pump after installing my PC after a lan. System went WAAAAHHH!! BEEP!!! ... no biggy only annoying!

Re:watercooling

[pclminion]

The same way your air cooled system handles fault tolerance -- The onboard hardware monitor detects a high CPU or motherboard temperature and shuts it down.

I don't think you actually read the parent post -- what does it matter if the CPU shuts itself off, if your entire case is flooded with coolant? You're pretty well fucked in that case.

Re:watercooling

[radish]

Is that before or after the mobo shorts out from the water pouring out of the failed hose? :)

Re:watercooling

[Anonymous Coward]

not true

my fan used to fail intermittently

I used to wake up t the smell of hot silicon in the morning and a crashed PC. eventually I replaced the heatsink.

the CPU still works years later.

Re:watercooling

[homebrewmike]

The major hangup I have with Flourinert is that if it burns, everyone in the room dies.

Re:watercooling

[Anonymous Coward]

Flooding with coolant won't hurt unless it floods while power is applied or the coolant is coorosive. Lots of electronic repair places put circuit boards in a dishwasher to clean them up. Just make sure that they're completely dry before you apply power.

Re:watercooling

[eyepeepackets]

You have a place to get heatpipes? I've been looking and looking and have yet to find a place to get them stock. Most places which sell heatpipe technology are engineering firms which want to sell their design services, not plain straight heat pipes. I'm sure this is because the heatpipe itself is just piece one of three required for effectiveness: a heatsink on the hot end, a heatpipe to do the transfer and (usually) a cooling block/device on the other end.

If you know of a place to get a variety of heatpipes in stock sizes and lengths, please post it here.

Thanks.

Re:watercooling

[Anonymous Coward]

Hazardous Decomposition or By-Products
Substance Condition
Hydrogen Fluoride At Elevated Temperatures - greater than 200 ºC
Perfluoroisobutylene (PFIB) At Elevated Temperatures - greater than 200 ºC
Hazardous Decomposition: If the product is exposed to extreme condition of heat from misuse or equipment failure, toxic
decomposition products that include hydrogen fluoride and perfluoroisobutylene can occur.
Hydrogen fluoride (CAS No. 7664-39-3) has an ACGIH Threshold Limit Value - Ceiling of 3 ppm (as fluoride), an OSHA
Permissible Exposure Limit - Time Weighted Average of 3 ppm (as fluoride) and a revoked OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit -
Short Term Exposure Limit (which is enforced by some State Right-To-Know programs) of 6 ppm (as fluoride). Hydrogen fluoride
may cause respiratory tract irritation, dental or skeletal fluorosis and irritation or burns to the eyes or skin, particularly when dissolved
in water (hydrofluoric acid). The odor threshold for HF is 0.04 ppm, providing good warning properties for exposure.
Perfluoroisobutylene(CAS No. 382-21-8) has an ACGIH Threshold Limit Value - Ceiling of 0.01 ppm. Perfluoroisobutylene may
cause respiratory tract irritation, pulmonary edema, cyanosis, and effect on the hematopoietic system.

Re:watercooling

[Micro$will]

Heat pipes still use water as the cooling medium, albeit in thicker pipes and under a slight vacuum. I bought a Thermaltake SilentTower to replace an Alpha PAL 8942 with a Vantec Tornado fan (A.K.A. a vacuum cleaner) and I'm pretty satisfied. It keeps the CPU way cooler than a passive ever could, and I didn't have to go through all the crap like when I built my friend's machine with a Thermaltake Aquarius.

Re:watercooling

[delus10n0]

Distilled water has very little conductivity -- I've actually spilled some on my video card and it kept running happily. Not that I would suggest it, though.

Re:watercooling

[Triffid_Hunter]

given that 2) and 3) are the same thing, you've only to watch out for pump failure, and its fairly trivial to connect a flow indicator to the cpu fan header so that your motherboard's built-in fan failure routines can be employed..

you also need to watch out for galvanic/ionic transfer (easily avoided by having radiator metal = waterblock metal) and clogging (use clean water!) and make sure that the hose barbs are properly secured (zip ties behind the barbs work a treat)

watercooling has been used in cars for many years and the systews generally only leak if poorly maintained...

Re:watercooling

[Short Circuit]

If there are any ionic substances on the surface of the board, such as salt in dried sweat, your formerly distilled water will very quickly begin to conduct.

Other posters have mentioned anti-corrosive additives. If they're ionic, then your water is likely to conduct.

Re:watercooling

[eyegor]

I built a system with the Aquarius II a while back. I agree. It was a major PITA and took a lot of space in the case as well.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the Aquarius. It's very quiet and keeps my 2800+ under 95F when doing "normal" activities like surfing and under 104F when playing more intensive apps like "Far Cry".

I'll probably use something like the SilentTower for my next box though.

Re:watercooling

[Greyfox]

Not me alas, they've only recently come to my attention. You can find a variety of heat sinks that use 'em, but I haven't run across anywhere where you can just get the pipes. Most of the heatpipe solutions I've seen are huge'n'bulky or involve gigantic fans at one end of the pipe.

Having a completely silent PC would be a pretty big deal when you stop and think about it. My last PC sounded like a freaking 747 taking off, and my room mate's PC is pretty damn loud too (Although a large part of that would appear to be her ancient hard drives.) Hmm, maybe the market needs another entry... ;-)

Re:watercooling

[eyegor]

If water won't free-flow through a failed pump, series operation won't be very useful. Series operation will also not yield any increase in flow rate.

You could put them in parallel and get increased flow and use a check valve on each outlet to ensure you don't pump water backwards through the failed pump (assuming the failed pump will pass water).

Re:watercooling

[Ikkyu]

Multiple points of failure are not necessarily bad it all depends on their failure rates.

** Probibility crash course **

when determining the probability that a system will fail is as easy as adding when you use the word or and multiplying when you use the word and

i.e. probability that system fails = (probability that pump one fails) * (Probability that pump two fails) = pump one and pump two have to fail for the system to fail

i.e. probability that system fails = (probability pipe one fails) + ... + (probability that the pump fails) = the system fails if any component fails

so from this we see that if the one failure rate is significantly larger (i.e. the pump because it has moving parts as opposed to the pipeing) then the probability that the system will fail is the probability of the least reliable component failing given this you must decide if the expected failure rate is tollerable and this is easily determined by the Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) rating on the component most likely to fail, if you intend on replacing it well before the MTBF is up then you should have nothing to worry about

Re:watercooling

[machacker]

Not to long ago, i decided to cleam up my apple ][+ and get rid of all the durst and junk. i took at the circuit board and complitly submerged it in water and washed off all the dirt and dust. Let it sit in the sun for a little bit, popped it back in and it was good to go.

Re:watercooling

[Micro$will]

The Aquarius III is an external model so you don't have to worry about space, plus it saves you from using a 5 1/4" slot by relocating the temperature displays.

The initial install wasn't that bad, but it sure pissed me off when my friend decided to get a new case and we had to drain the system, take it all apart, then reassemble and fill.

Re:watercooling

[Minwee]

You may want to do a little reading on water cooling. You _don't_ just dump a bucket of tap water, rain water or salt water into your PC and pray that nothing bad happens. A much better solution is to use pure, steam-distilled water.

Why?

Because _pure_ water is a terrible conductor of electricity. Tap water only conducts electricity because of trace minerals in the mix. Once you remove those you are left with a pretty good insulator. There are alternatives such as fluorocarbon coolants specially designed for use with electronics, but distilled water is the easiest and cheapest to obtain.

This means that if you do somehow flood your entire case with coolant you will NOT be pretty well fucked regardless of what you or the grandparent poster may expect.

Other people have thought of this before, you know.

Re:watercooling

[pclminion]

This means that if you do somehow flood your entire case with coolant you will NOT be pretty well fucked regardless of what you or the grandparent poster may expect.

That's a nice theory, except that computer components contain water-soluble electrolytes which will cause your "pure" distilled water to become very unpure (and conductive) rather quickly.

Other people have thought of this before, you know.

That's good. I've done it before.

Re:watercooling

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice idea, but unless you're using glass for all your tubing and waterblocks, it's not going to be pure, distilled water for long. And as the other poster said, the same thing goes if it leaks. Like it or not, stuff WILL dissolve into distilled water fairly easily.

Re:watercooling

[pclminion]

Not to long ago, i decided to cleam up my apple ][+ and get rid of all the durst and junk. i took at the circuit board and complitly submerged it in water and washed off all the dirt and dust. Let it sit in the sun for a little bit, popped it back in and it was good to go.

I've done similar to an old 486-SX board. Except first, I submerged it in water-free antifreeze. It was an experiment to see if the board could run while submerged in glycol. Answer: No.

We pulled the board out of the tub, tossed it in the sink and sprayed it off. Took a blowdrier to it for 10 or 15 minutes, put it back in the case, and it fired right up.

And it was shiny-shiny after the glycol treatment :-)

Re:watercooling

[sadomikeyism]

Being an engineer, I have to ask: Why not turn the motherboard upside down, so the heat sink dips into the coolant BELOW the processor. Ergo, no leaks to drip onto the board, because the coolant is at a lower gravity potential.

Air cooled boards have the fins going up because hot air rises so you want to separate that hot air from the board as quickly as possible. With a liquid coolant, you only have to be concerned that sufficient coolant is flowing through the fins.

Ergo, you are back to a single point of failure: the pump/fan device. Maybe I need to get into developing one of these things to show how it's done...

Re:watercooling

[Minwee]

So perhaps using the cheapest components available with no real understanding of what they do isn't the right answer.

Who am I kidding? This is slashdot. Peanut butter makes a great replacement for thermal grease, and you can use used motor oil as a fertilizer. Go for it.

Re:watercooling

[Anonymous Coward]

Mister theory, meet mister reality. Go get some pure deionized water and use it in your system. It'll be as corrosive as tap in a week. You're just another asshole with opinions, but hey, this is slashdot.

Re:watercooling

[BeaverCleaver]

I can't think why that wouldn't work, but you'd need a bigger water pump than usual to fight convection, right? Otherwise you'd have the heatsink boiling a localised pool of hot water because the heat wasn't being transferred to the heat-exchanger, which if I understand you correctly, is now below the cpu. If you can find a pump that can do that, (shouldn't be too hard, just get a bigger one;-) and do it quietly, you're laughing.

Re:watercooling

[Deadstick]

Ergo, you are back to a single point of failure: the pump/fan device.

The Koolance system (at least) monitors the temperature at the CPU/waterblock interface and regulates the fans; if the pumps and/or fans fail, it simply shuts down the power.

rj

Re:watercooling

[Detritus]

Heat pipes can use many different fluids, not just water. Which one you use is application dependent.

See http://www.thermacore.com/hpt_faqs.htm.

Re:watercooling

[plover]

You're omitting the weakest point in the system: the human factor.

The human could screw up on many levels. They could design a bad system. They could purchase mismatched components and believe that a brass fitting from Home Depot is their answer, when all they've done is ensured the early onset of galvanic corrosion. They could purchase aquarium tubing that is not rated for the heat. They could forget to turn the pump on, or hook up a hose when they move it. They could forget to apply thermal paste, or apply too much by making the human error of assumption: "if some is good, more is better." They could forget the anti-corrosive additive to the coolant, thinking the l33t UV dye is all they need.

They could forget to unwrap shipping tape from their radiator or they could forget to apply pipe tape to a joint. They could cross-thread a fitting once (causing hidden damage) and reassemble it correctly, setting themseleves up for a future failure. They could overtighten or undertighten pipe threaded fittings.

And all these failings fall under the generic umbrella of, "OMG, water-cooling? No way! Didn't you hear about Joe, he trashed his dual Athlon-64 because of water cooling!!!" Never mind that Joe is an idiot who thought he could splice a tube with an unclamped hose barb.

By far, the least reliable component is an inexperienced hobbyist assembling a system from scratch. And it's very hard to stick a probability value on Joe Sixpack and still have meaning for someone with half a clue.

Re:watercooling

[plover]

I'd never considered a GFCI for a watercooled system before, but now that you mention it it sounds like a good idea.

The only drawback is that every GFCI I've ever played with has tripped for annoyance reasons (pounding a nail for a picture frame, for example) and I'm not sure I want my PC to instantly power down because I dropped a pile of O'Reilly books.

And galvanic corrosion is quite easy to have happen in a watercooling system. Someone inexperienced could screw a copper hose barb into an aluminum GPU block, and it wouldn't take many impurities in the water to have that lead to a leak within a year or two.

Re:watercooling

[plover]

That's a good idea to at least prevent slow leaks or condensation from dripping onto electronics. However, a pressurized leak could still spray onto parts that aren't known for water tolerance. Oh well, you can't fix every problem all at once, but you can tackle them one at a time.

I'm sure people don't do that now because virtually all cases I've seen are designed for maximum convection cooling, which means "heat sinks up please"

Re:watercooling

[ebuck]

I hate those inconsistent BeOS system libraries.

"isComputerOn" and "isComputerOnFire" should both return 1 when the event is occuring. If you want the temp, they should have made a "getMotherboardTemp" but they probably ran out of R&D funds.

Re:watercooling

[eyepeepackets]

Dah, we need some enterprising cooling site to start offering these for sale. This i1472 machine has plenty of usable space with a good design for the airflow -- a couple of additional heatpipes added to the current setup would be a very good thing! Problem is, there is no where to get them that I can find.

Interesting that this i1472 which I purchased around Christmas, 1999 has one heat pipe used in it. IBM did a good job with the design but the execution was flawed -- the one heat pipe isn't enough and the little fan doesn't move enough air.

I suppose I'll keep looking. Starting to consider pulled parts from old laptops just to get heat pipes -- very expensive way to do it, ugh.

Yes, silence in a pc is a good thing!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

oh man

[StevenHenderson]

ranging from cheap and cheerful, to stylish and pricey.

Only on /. could a watercooling system be called "stylish."

"Hey baby, check out my new Abercrombie watercooler!"

Re:oh man

[Migrant Programmer]

Surely the Power Mac G5 is at least a little stylish...

Re:oh man

[nossid]

Stylish, stylish? I'll give you some nonstylish.

Close up

Test installation

It's a nasty hack that I put together during an exam period if I recall correctly. And no, I'm not using it today.

Re:oh man

[confused one]

Actually, Zalman has one that's stylish in a geeky tech machinist kind of way...

Re:oh man

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hey baby, check out my new Abercrombie watercooler!"

Only on /. could Abercrombie be considered stylish.

Re:oh man

[joh]

Surely the Power Mac G5 is at least a little stylish...

I thought so, too. Until I saw a G5 for real the first time. Now I think that this thing is ugly as hell. When you look at something that actually looks like a TFT monitor you don't expect it to have really fat borders and to be half a handful of inches thick. Really, these Macs look good only as long as you manage to think constantly of "but, there is a whole computer in it!". Don't think a moment of this and it looks fat and ugly. Put it on a desk and the desk is full. Stylish? No. Just ask your girlfriend, she will probably know better what is stylish and what not, while not caring for geekish details like "they put the whole computer in".

My cheap & cheerful BenQ T904 (19" TFT, black, thin border, 349 EUR) looks way better. OK, it has an ugly, grey peecee hooked up on it under the desk, but, hey, I couldn't care less.

Re:oh man

[Arghdee]

Umm. You're thinking of the G5 iMac.

http://www.apple.com/

Re:oh man

[Asprin]

+5 Bonus points for placing the power strip right next to - and not in - the bucket of water.

This Manometer should complete the DIY project ...

[xmas2003]

For those Do-It-Yourselfer's that want to measure the water pressure for PC cooling, take a look at this manometer which, while it doesn't look that dandy, works quite well as the principals of pressure are pretty simple.

Cheap? Cheerful? How about WORKS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, if I'm going to pipe water through my PC, I want it to be reliable and effective. That's it.

Who the hell cares if it's neon?

What About?

[seaniqua]

skipping the pump and hooking directly into a low-flow water line? This would be the most expensive option (water bill), but eliminates the possibility of pump failure, and isn't reliable on ambient roomj temp (my water is quite cold when it comes out of the faucet, regardless of how hot the house is). Of course, if a hose leaks, a self-contained system would stop dripping when the reservoir was empty, while this would flood the whole house! Anyway, something to think about

Re:What About?

[TheAntiCrust]

Yeah, I cant wait until everyone is constantly running unrecycled water through thier computers... thats a GREAT use of a limited resource.

Re:What About?

[Kazrath]

Water is limited? Last I checked it made up about 2/3's the surface of this planet? Maybe move out of the desert?

Re:What About?

[Narcocide]

i dunno about you but my landlord pays the water bill.... :)

Re:What About?

[kidgenius]

And what percentage of that 2/3 is drinkable? ~3%

Re:What About?

[atta1]

Well, maybe we should start saving and chilling our urine for use in PC cooling systems... I figure it'll take me about a week to fill up the reservoir..

Re:What About?

[Enigma_Man]

We actually heated / cooled our apartment at school like this. We had a Saab radiator I scavenged hooked up to the kitchen sink. We rigged up some cardboard ducting, and strapped a few fans in pusher-configuration behind the radiator blowing outwards. The hot water flowed from the bottom of the radiator to the top, so it remained in the radiator for longer, to throw off as much heat as possible. The water going in was hot hot hot, the water coming out was lukewarm (we'd run it at a trickle to extract as much heat from the water as possible). If we cranked it, we could get the entire apartment up to a balmy 75 degrees. It also worked "ok" to cool the house when it was hot, but much less well than heating the house.

-Jesse

Re:What About?

[johnjaydk]

There is places where drinking quality water is so plentyfull that it's not even metered. The stuff is pissing down every mountain in sight.

Imagine my culture shock coming straight from a place where you had to buy the stuff in bottles...

And by the way that's the Faroe Islands. Somewhere between Iceland and the UK. Total population roughly equal to the number of slashdotters.

Re:What About?

[kapowaz]

Now that's just taking the p*ss...

Re:What About?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Yeah, I cant wait until everyone is constantly running unrecycled water through thier computers

Easy fix - use the waste water from your liquid cooler to fill the water heater. Of course, now you have to keep the reservoir clean, unless you like bathing in bacteria.

Re:What About?

[zx75]

Waterbill yes, but also think how much water you'd be wasting to do that? It has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is the drain which mixed with all the rest of dirty water must then be treated before being returned to the system.

It may be cliche, but there are too many places in this world that doesn't have adequate access to clean water. Heck, water use is restricted in some parts of California even during the summer!

Re:What About?

[starman97]

Sure about that?

You do pay rent, dont you?
Your landlord puts the water bill in as part of your rent.
They're sneaky that way... :)

Re:What About?

[Anonymous Coward]

Rig it all up in the tub. Waters right there and no problem with leaks, just with bathes.

Re:What About?

[Spameroni]

BAHAHAHAHA...excellent troll. Who paid for heating the hot water?

Re:What About?

[advocate_one]

just wait till your water supply fails... totally outside your control, can happen with no warning, and probably a far more frequent event that your pump failing.

Re:What About?

[matria]

Some apartments include hot water, but not heat or electricity. I know this for a fact because I lived in one like that. I would run the bathtub full of hot water an hour before taking a bath, and the bathroom was nice and warm without running the heater!

When I lived in Connecticut we had a gas hot water heater that heated "on demand"; very inexpensive, like baseboard hot water heat. We were considering hooking the heating system up to it since it was newer than our heating furnace.

Unless you have an electric hot water heater, it's probably cheaper than heating with electricity.

Where I live now most people have solar water heaters. I'm in a particularly dry desert part of the country; the sun shines more than 300 days out of the year, and it's usually only cloudy for one or two days at a time. Last winter I didn't have to use the electric water heater element at all, and the year before that I only used it three times. If I hose off the solar panels from time to time, the water is scalding hot.

Re:What About?

[Carnildo]

It may be cliche, but there are too many places in this world that doesn't have adequate access to clean water.

And (to use another cliche) there are some places in this world where water is too cheap to meter.

Re:What About?

[ebuck]

You assume that your water system is reliable.

Mine isn't reliable enough, and it's not like I'm in a 3rd world country (whatever that means today). I'm in Houston, TX, a not-so-small city that has had no appreciable water shortages in the last 10 years. For example, I've lost water pressure twice this year.

Security by obscurity is flawed, so why assume that obscuring the technical details of water delivery will secure your water cooling system?

i watercooled for about a year

[kochsr]

It was fun, i only had one leak (that was my own fault) but it was expensive. These systems are not for real world computing. They are for hobbyists that want something to do. I chose to do mine semi-homebrew style. I fabricated some stuff myself, and bought the other parts.

The only reason i did it was that it was nearly silent. Of course, you can do that with conventional cooling nowadays.

Another interesting fact is that i got out of high performance PCs, and now my only computer is a 12" powerbook.

Re:i watercooled for about a year

[Astroboy!]

I chose to do mine semi-homebrew style

Wow -- beer as coolant -- that's both imaginative and refreshing ;-)

Why use Water?!?

[Zarniwoop_Editor]

Why not use something like the 3M product.

I saw a color tv floating in a tank of this at a trade show years ago, something about a running color tv floating in liquid is just wrong.

But I'm sure It would be much better than water for many many reason.

"Fluorinert FC-77, a specialty fluid from 3M, to cool the laser tube. It is a colorless, odorless liquid (just like water) and if you get some of it on your fingers, it is harmless, just wash your hands with clean water (according to 3M).

Here is the description from 3M web site:

"Heat Transfer Fluids
The wide liquid range of Fluorinert liquid FC-77 (-110C to 97C) makes it ideal for use in automated test equipment (ATE) and other semiconductor process equipment. Its high dielectric strength means it will not damage electronic equipment or semiconductor wafers, chips or packages in the event of a leak or other failure. In addition, FC-77 liquid is chemically stable, nonflammable and practically non-toxic".

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Enigma_Man]

Wowie! That'd be awesome.

You could have the "hot" areas of your mobo/videocard just totally immersed in this liquid. Throw in an electric fan to swirl around the liquid, and just strap a gigantic heatsink onto the side of the tank... nearly passive excellent cooling.

-Jesse

Re:Why use Water?!?

[stecoop]

I saw on a website onetime where a guy had his whole computer in (IRC) mineral sprits. In the web site he recommened the use of FC-77 as mineral spritis is flameable; but the site noted that FC-77 price was quite high. A quick google search reveles that one site has FC-77 for a little over $200 a litter. Maybe buying a window AC unit and hacking it into computer case may be cheaper?

Re:Why use Water?!?

[HaeMaker]

At $240 per liter, I'd say no.

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Wapiti-eater]

Uh, maybe cuz that wunder-water is pretty damned expenseive:
"250 cc bottle ~ 1 lbs = $110 plus shipping
1 liter bottle ~ 4 lbs = $240 plus shipping"

from: http://www.parallax-tech.com/fluorine.htm#price

Stuff evaporates when given the opportunity - keep some spare on hand, JIC.

Also, isn't it a chlorinated flourocarbon? An ozone depleter - something the left coast grass kissers would be less than happy about. Hundreds of leaky liquid cooling systems chewing up their ozone. I can hear the legislation hitting the fan now.....

Re:Why use Water?!?

[merlin_jim]

In addition, FC-77 liquid is chemically stable, nonflammable and practically non-toxic

It's also a couple hundred dollars a gallon

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Enigma_Man]

Aah, I didn't realize it was so expensive... What about using this stuff as the coupling agent between the on-chip CPU die, and the heatsink/waterblock itself? Rather than thermal-goo, which doesn't have a wonderful thermal transfer coefficient, a liquid has excellent thermal transfer capabilities. I remember seeing a test on one of those hardware sites where they tested the abilities of different substances. I believed they tested regular thermal-goo, "arctic silver" with the metallic paste, ripoff arctic silver, peanutbutter and water. Water was by far the best, but has the obvious downsides of being well, ya know.

With this $240/liter stuff, you could use a sealing o-ring of some sort around the die part of the CPU, and put a drop or two of this onto the die, then put the heatsink onto the top of the whole thing, so you'd get an excellent thermal transfer... Hmmm... this is sounding pretty great.

-Jesse

Re:Why use Water?!?

[deacon]

Why not Flourinert?

If you have the budget for a Cray, go for it!

And you'll need a sealed chamber for the computer, the chilling system for the flourinert, (that heat still has to be gotten rid of) the pump system to circulate the fluid, (to the chiller) the sealed bulkheads for the wires to go in and out, and a few hundred thousand $ for all the odds and ends I forgot..

Re:Why use Water?!?

[StikyPad]

Water was by far the best, but has the obvious downsides of being well, ya know.

What? Oxidizing? Not if you submerse an object in the water, assuming your water is deaerated. If you want to preserve something, try sinking it in a lake.

Or did you mean conductive? Actually, deionized (pure) water is rather nonconductive. At 0.055uS/cm, that works out to 18Mohm/cm.

I'm not a chemist, but I don't think there are any elements on a motherboard that would react with pure water.

Re:Why use Water?!?

[SHiVa0]

The biggest reason not to use Fluorinet is the cost.

But then, even with the small amount needed for a cooling loop, I'd still use mineral free water.

Why? Because it's about 20% (can't remember exactly) more efficient than fluorinet. The heat transfer ratio of the 3M product ain't that good.

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Enigma_Man]

Okay, find me some absolute pure water, and an absolute clean processor surface with no dust or contaminants on it, and a heatsink equally as clean, and deoxidize the entire area, and you've got yourself a deal!

The reason why water doesn't work (even as pure as possible) in real life is because of these things, otherwise this whole discussion would be moot... Get it?

If you want to see the effects of real water on a processor die (they start with distilled, believe you me), look at some pictures of long-term direct-die CPU cooling.

Despite this being Slashdot and everything, I like to keep my feet firmly planted on the ground.

-Jesse

Re:Why use Water?!?

[StikyPad]

Actually there are thousands of industrial applications in which deionized water is essential, specifically because of it's nonconductance. And it doesn't have to be "pure" to be nonconductive, just mostly pure. I couldn't tell you what the impurity/conductance ratio is, but as long as it was hooked up to filtration and a deionizer system, it would be feasible. In fact, flourinert was specifically designed to replace DI water in industrial applications, due to its higher boiling point and lower freezing point.

So yeah, now your feet are firmly planted. Welcome back.

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Carnildo]

And how much complexity does an inline deionizer add to a watercooling system? Can you fit one in the typical computer case? What about noise? How much does it cost, both initial cost and operating cost?

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Lisandro]

Thermal pastes are actually quite lousy heat conductors (compared to other substances, of course). Their main use it's to ensure there's absolutely zero air trapped in the interface between the emmiting surface and the sink, like in non-flat areas of the surface, and specially in their microscopic holes and scratchings.

I always die a bit when i see people mounting PCs and smearing thermal paste on their CPUs like it's syrup. The right amount is about the size of a rice bean right in the middle of the die, so it spreads nice, evenly and thin between the surfaces, maximizing heat transfer.

Re:Why use Water?!?

[crimson30]

Isn't hydrofluoroether better at heat transfer?

And for anyone interested, here's an article on building a submersion case for using HFE-7100.

Re:Why use Water?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thinks it's just a fluro-carbon. No Chlorine (which is the stuff that kills the ozone) involved.

It's been a while since my chemistry classes, but I think that's all thats involved. 3M says it's got 0 ozone depletion potential in it's literature. And I'm inclined to belive it, since I've heard that florinert is super chemically stable.

water cooling routers?

[SuicideDog]

Man the site is already /.'ed .. Maybe they should look into water cooling they're routers to handle the hoard. (yes I know it's more likey a bandwidth or server issue)

Re:water cooling routers?

[cangeceiro]

i think i know why

"Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573"

Slashdotted...

[jargoone]

Thinking of taking the plunge into water cooling your PC?

Actually, no, I have zero interest in watercooling. It's expensive, not entirely safe, and marginally better than effective air cooling systems.

Nevertheless, I would like to see the article, but I can't. I'm betting the host where the article is located could use some water cooling right about now.

Re:Slashdotted...

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF??? Parent is not flamebait. its insightful then funny but not flaimbait.

suggestion

[RainbowSix]

I have some experience with watercooling. With proper care, it's safe and a quiet way to cool your machine. For those of you who move your computers around though, becareful what materials you use. I built my computer in a warm dorm room which meant that my copper block to plastic piping worked fine. Then I took it home to my freezing basement and water went everywhere. I think the metal shrank while the plastic didn't, and water came out of the connections.

Other than that I never had any problems. I don't use it anymore because it's too heavy to carry around all of the time.

Text of article

[Anonymous Coward]

Server Error in '/' Application.
Server Too Busy
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]
System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpW orkerRequest wr) +148

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

Re:Text of article

[Garion Maki]

seems like they forgot the . in the ./ application :p

Re:Text of article

[igny]

That is /. you insensitive clod!

what's that noise?!

[Anonymous Coward]

the noise of water vaporating when the slashdot effect hits their water cooled servers ...

Liquid metal

[dillee1]

Seems like no one ever consider using liquid metal coolant instead.
Lq metal like NaK are much more efficient then water. In combination with a MHD pumps, the whole system can be free of moving parts and noiseless.

Re:Liquid metal

[HBI]

From the second page you listed:

The best candidate seems to be an eutectic solution of sodium and potassium, (NaK). The melting point is as low as -12 C. Its density and viscosity are similar to water but it has a lower specific heat and a much higher thermal conductivity. NaK can be used with nickel, chrome and steel but it is aggressive to cadmium, antimony, bismuth, copper, lead, silicon, tin, and magnesium. It also reacts violently with air and water. It is apparent that this alloy is associated with several material and handling problems. Liquid sodium has nevertheless been used as a coolant for nuclear reactors, which shows that these drawbacks can be managed.

Sure, but do we want to manage flammable liquids that combust when exposed to air in our home? Pumped through our computer? Not to mention that it eats away at silicon and most likely the PCB itself.

I can see why no one considers this. ;-)

Re:Liquid metal

[deacon]

I realize you are just joking, but for those who might think you are serious, a liquid metal system has to operate at temperatures that melt the metal.

So while great for nuclear reactors, the minimum operating temp would already destroy anything in the PC..

The only common item that uses metal cooling is hollow stemmed engine exhaust valves, which have sodium metal sealed inside. As the valve moves, the sodium splashes back and forth, moving heat from the head to the stem on the valve.

Re:Liquid metal

[Kazrath]

I think the parent poster posted this: "The melting point is as low as -12 C." Correct me if I am wrong. But that is a tad bit cooler than room tempeture let alone the running tempture of a CP and GP U's It's really not a bad idea.

Re:Liquid metal

[AlaskanUnderachiever]

There are a LOT of major problems with metal cooling.

First of all unless you're using some seriously exotic components it's going to be solid at the temps you'd deal with in an average compouter (15-75c).

Secondly the materials needed to contain your liquid metal aren't cheap.

Thirdly it makes inspection for any potential flaws a real pain in the ass.

Fourthly you have to consider the viscosity of liquid metals vs. water or other coolants. The amount of energy you have to use to move them is going to be substantially higher.

Fifthly, the conductivity of most liquid metals vs. water (even water with electrolytes) means that most leaks are going to = dead computer.

Oh yeah. . .also. . .I totally forgot about toxicity issues, reactivity (sodium and potassium as you've selected would be really fun to have leak out of your computer and hit, say, a patch of wet floor). . .

Re:Liquid metal

[jeef_zula]

It should be noted that liquid Na was tried in many nuclear breeder reactors, but was often very elusive and caused tons of problems (once it leaks it starts a fire, and don't try putting it out with water). The lack of a good liquid metal cooling solution is why these reactors never came to be.

Re:Liquid metal

[PitaBred]

Because using a coolant that reacts violently with air is a GOOD idea, kids.
Did you even read the links you posted? Seems like the perfect way for an amateur to hurt themselves.

Re:Liquid metal

[Anonymous Coward]

What part of "reacts violently with air" ... The phrase "reacts violently" can be paraphrased as "BOOM!"

Not something I want in my PC. Or my neighbor's, frankly.

Re:Liquid metal

[NonSequor]

If there was a leak of liquid sodium or potassium I wouldn't be worried about the floor. I'd be worried about the horrible burns I'd get if any of it hit me.

I'm remember being told in high school chemistry that some kid tried to sneak a piece of sodium out of the lab in his pocket and soon came to regret it. Of course this sounds like an urban legend, but hey, chances are that someone out there has been dumb enough to try this.

Sure would like to RTFA

[ninjagin]

Too bad their server's already collapsed under the weight of the exposure.

*sigh*

Re:Sure would like to RTFA

[headkick]

Maybe Apache would have been a better choice?

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]
System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpW orkerRequest wr) +148

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

Re:Come to think of it

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds like too much pr0n!

Server Error in '/' Application.

[mbvgp]

Damn slashdotted already. Which systems did they compare ? I have a corsair watercooling system and it does a great job with cooling and a breeze to setup too. The only negatives are its price (~200$) and noise. But the noise is not all that bad. Just a sort of humming sound of the fan. But its a bit more silent that all the case fans and cpu fans I used to have.

Cheap and cheerful?

[grungebox]

Their server is certainly not cheerful anymore...perhaps because their stylish water-cooling system could not handle the deluge of Slashdot clicks, leaving behind an electronic trail of tears and thus flushing any attempts to RTFA down the toilet.

IIS still fried......

[CodePyro]

Too bad all that cooling doesnt help IIS...

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy] Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

Re:IIS still fried......

[Anonymous Coward]

what kind of wussmonkey uses ISS? Sheesh. I'd rather be watercooling a Linux box.

Slashdotted

[Dracolytch]

Forget water cooling, someone grab a fire extinguisher... That server's toast.

~D

Re:This Manometer should complete the DIY project

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a freakin' piece of hose!

Why do you need a web page to tell you how to "build" a piece of hose?

Oh, I see...they used blue/green dye. I used red on my lpg manometer. Guess I did it wrong.

/my manometer asplode

Ob AVForums discussion...

[GillBates0]

An old (2002) thread from AVForums about this guy who took "watercooling" a little too literally. Turns out it was tongue in cheek, but the whole thread is hilarious.

I decided this weekend to try and quiten my PC by following some other members lead and going down the water cooling road. The fans on my PC were really starting to drive me mad

The first thing that I did was to remove all the fans. The one on the processor and graphics card were no problem but the one in the power unit was a bugger to get out.

The most difficult part was sealing all the ventilitation openings in the PC case with silicon. I also put silicon all around the joints on the PC case. The smell of silicon was dreadful but when my wife complained I told her to be patent as it will be worth it when we have a completely silent PC.

Because I had completely sealed the PC case the only opening near top was the DVD drive. So I opened that and put the small hose I had purchased specially for the job into the DVD drive as far as it would go. With what I can only describe as great excitement and anticipation, I turned on the water. It really is amazing just how long it took before the case was complete full, and boy was it heavy. That didn't really bother me as I didn't intend to be moving the PC anyway.

Read on...

new way of water cooling?

[LiquidMind]

A few months ago, i saw this clip which had some folks at Good Morning America showing off a liquid that doesn't get things wet. they had a tank of this stuff and put some (powered) electronics in them (laptop, LCD TV) and they operated just fine underwater. They put a book in this stuff and none of the pages got wet as they pulled it out. Check it out

anyway, it would be cool to find out if you can just put your whole computer in this stuff. cooling problem solved, right?

Re:new way of water cooling?

[Bishop]

The problems with Novec is that it has a low boiling point of 49C, and prolonged exposure to its vapours is hazardous. This is not a liquid you want sitting in an open container next to your desk.

I could not find any information on its heat conductivity.

Re:new way of water cooling?

[izomiac]

Well, since pure water doesn't conduct electricity, couldn't you just circulate distilled water throughout the case? You'd have to run water through it first to remove dust and things, and I wouldn't expect a cd-rom or harddrive to work right underwater, but couldn't you do this for the motherboard?

Re:new way of water cooling?

[retinaburn]

Except these examples (and the article) give no response on how well it dissapates heat. It could be really nifty, but it might cause your pc to melt itself if its an insulator ......go give it a try, if you reply I will assume it worked.

Re:Come to think of it

[deacon]

If I were to spring for expensive water cooling for my computer, I might as well get a nice air conditioning system. Sometimes my body overheats faster than my system...

You would probably be better off..

the heat transfer equation H=h*a*(delta T)

H=heat

h=heat transfer coefficient

a=surface area available for cooling

delta T=diff between temperature of device to be cooled and surrounding cooling fluid

shows that the easiest way to cool something is to reduce the temperature of the fluid that cools it..

If you lower the air temp in your computer case by 10c, the processer temp drops by 10c, assuming the fans all stay at the same speed.

Increasing "a" is limited by fin efficiency (which is what these water cooling systems are trying to get around, but a sealed evaporator/condenser would be smaller and more efficient, there is a metric buttload of patents now on sealed passive boilers/condensers), and as air speed increases, "h" rises less and less in proportion)

If you want more info, look at the free download of the heat transfer textbook I list in my journal.

This isn't something to encourage.

[pclminion]

Water cooling, I think, isn't something we should be encouraging. It's just one more excuse for chip makers to ignore their chips' power requirements. The real solution is for the chips to run cooler, not to slap bigger and more complicated cooling systems on them.

If you're using water cooling for noise-reduction purposes, okay. But if you literally need it in order to keep your chip cool, there's something very wrong.

We should NOT be encouraging chip makers to continue avoiding power problems. It's environmentally irresponsible.

Re:This isn't something to encourage.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no chips that need water cooling to stay cool. People use watercooling to overclock their cheap underpowered hardware. Water cooling is a gimmick. When was the last time you saw a production server that was water cooled?

Re:This isn't something to encourage.

[Slime-dogg]

I picked up a Koolance water-cooled case just recently. The primary reason, though, was not because of the CPU heat production. I got it because my case was a bit on the small side, and the hard disks were getting hot and locking up. I figured this out after my Windows box reported that my kernel was corrupt. After I let it sit for a while, and the disk got down to room temperature, it would boot fine.

I replaced the disk once, but had similar results with the second one. I decided that the best way to handle all of it would be to just lay down the money for a WC case. As of yet, I have had no problems with it, save one. When I got the computer, one of the tabs coming out of the pump that the tube connects to had snapped off. I reconnected it with some Krazy Glue, then sealed it with some water-proof sealing glue.

It's kinda cool. The case has two pumps for redundancy, three fans on the very top of the case where the radiator is, and a small resevoir in the botton front. I've got my disk, vid card, and CPU hooked up to it, and I maintain a CPU temperature of about 78F. When there is a heavy load and the room is warm, it will get up to around 88F. There is an intercept for the case switch built in, so when you hit the power button, it switches on the pumps at the same time. The case shipped with a bag of water stuff, it contained anti-corrision chemicals as well as dye and various other things.

All in all, my experience with water cooling has been nice, although expensive. The cost of the case is about $199, and the extra blocks came to a total of about $70. I had the money to blow, though, and figured that it's a worthy investment.

Be careful

[Pan T. Hose]

Last time I tried water cooling my computer, the pipe started leaking, there was a short circuit and I accidentally set my computer on fire, which needless to say was neither cooling nor cool... After that accident I gave up altogether and do you know what I did? Instead of overclocking my CPUs, I started to underclock them. I noticed that in many cases even a 15-20% lower c;ock speed may eliminate the need of having any fan at all, as long as there is a large radiator with good contact and a reasonable air flow in the case. Sacrificing those few percents of megahertzes might sound very "not elite" but guess what? It still can display websites faster than I can read.

no, but I'm freezing my laptop cooling tray.

[cabazorro]

I'm considering to put the cooling aluminum laptop
tray in the freezer overnight so I can get at least
30 min of work in the morining in my damn HP Pavillion ze4042 without the damn thing turning on the cpu fan that makes more
noise than my neighboors leaf-blower.
The laptop cooling trays are worthless.

Re:no, but I'm freezing my laptop cooling tray.

[eyepeepackets]

Yes, have to agree with you if you use a laptop cooler tray stock from the retailer. However, I found that taking off the RAM cover panel on the bottom of my laptop makes a big difference. Okay, it make a HUGE difference. You can also use a loop of 1/4x1/8" window sealing tape to make a closed loop seal on the tray which forces the air to blow into the hole (in this case, the RAM cover hole) on the bottom of the laptop.

There are other tricks for laptops too. For instance, my IBM i1472 had no heatsink for the GPU chip but plenty of room to install one. I put on a low height heatsink, placed to take advantage of the designed airflow and viola, another big difference.

More tricks are possible for laptop cooling, you just need to do some research and remember that laptops are consumer items -- many things which are possible to do to the machine to keep it cool have not been done because it wasn't cost effective to do at the factory. If you can do some engineering mods on your laptop yourself, you can really make them sit up and do some cooling tricks.

I am looking to do a water cooled laptop on this i1472 when it gets replaced next month. Don't think it's possible? I didn't either until I made some measurements inside the machine and researched parts and availability -- it's very doable. Granted, the laptop won't have the same level of portability. :) I am looking at using the same cooling blocks but instead of water, using low preasure compressed air. I'll be fun and interesting if nothing else.

Oy, it finaly happened: I've turned into a geek.

Re:no, but I'm freezing my laptop cooling tray.

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have some links? Were do you buy laptop heatsinks?

Re:no, but I'm freezing my laptop cooling tray.

[eyepeepackets]

Do a google search for pc cooling, follow the links for notebooks/laptops. Almost all of the cooling sites have a section for notebook/laptop items. There are a bunch of sites. Another place to look for items on these sites is the vga/chipset cooling sections.

Understand you are not going to find ready-made items: You'll have to search/measure/modify to fit the requirements of the space available in your laptop and it's usually very sparse. Best place to start is to get yourself a copy of the service manual for your machine so you can open it up and put it back together again without breaking it and rendering it useless.

As for heatsinks, they are often measured in millimeters as opposed to inches so you'll want to find a good conversion tool. There's one on the web which is great, google for metric conversion.

Happy hacking!

Watercooling my computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about computer-heating my pool?

Re:Guess they needed it

[Flatline_hun]

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

How To Water-cool Yourself

[OccidentalSlashy]

1. Run a cool bath. 2. Strip, submerge. Make self depreciating Microsoft jokes now. 3. Make sure your hair gets wet. And not just a little! 4. Soap. Come on! 5. Towel off completely. 6. OK, get dressed! Mom made you cinnamon toast!

Are we done watercooling yet?

[karlandtanya]

Reminds me of a 16 year old that bolts the entire Summit Racing catalog onto his mustang and thinks now he's a gearhead.

Go invent something. Go build something. Heck, even go break something while learning about it. Join you local tesla coil or ham radio club and learn something. Contribute a patch to an open-source project. build a watercooling system out of parts from Lowe's. Be proud of that.

Go buy something? Something that's largely non-functional, and unreliable? And bolt it on to your computer? Oh, yeah! You da man!

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[tktk]

Go buy something? Something that's largely non-functional, and unreliable? And bolt it on to your computer? Oh, yeah! You da man!

People install Microsoft products every day.

Obligatory MS joke...I know...I don't care...mod me down.

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Go buy something? Something that's largely non-functional, and unreliable? And bolt it on to your computer? Oh, yeah! You da man!

This is slashdot. What did you think this was, a geek/technical enthusiast website?

It is a common misconception that every "socially inept" teenager is a bright and capable geek. Some are actually just dull, lazy, stupid kids that additionally can't relate to people. My guess is that your ultimatum is not going to turn many kiddies into hackers.

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

They have tesla coil clubs?

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm a tesla coil on a mustang....

Good idea!

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[deacon]

Come on, now, that's a bit harsh.*

Everyone has to start somewhere, and if bolting on parts that you buy gets you started or interested in engineering, thats great!

If people get interested at an easy level, hopefully they will progress, and get involved in the things you are talking about.

With the decline in wood shop/ metal shop/ small engine repair courses in schools, any progress or interest in technical things should be encouraged.

*Deacon chides another poster for being "harsh". A flock of pigs executes a hammerhead roll.

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've painted a racing stripe down the side of my PC, glued an aerofoil on top, and a huge chrome exhaust around the rear fan... Got an extra 10 FPS! schweet!

Re:Are we done watercooling yet?

[ATMosby]

I've been really amused talking to people about *my* water cooled computer. Generally the first question is something along the lines of, "Where did you buy it?"

They look at me like some sort of space alien (mind you it's computer folks I'm talking to) for buying all of the parts and getting it to work.

For the curious, the project log with pictures can be found at http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=64982

I'm not over clocking my system, I'm just making a piece of modern art. It glows blue so nicely. AT

Poor Server

[ManuelKelly]

This sure is a graceful way to tell people that the server is too busy. On the good side, it is returned very quickly.

Server Error in '/' Application.

Server Too Busy

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]
System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpW orkerRequest wr) +148

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

Isnt water bad for electrical components.

[tfcdesign]

Ihope if you use water, you put it in somekind of container. It could ruin your computer. I bought an iBreeze for my iBook (exteranl fans) but I guess I could have just got a hotwoater back (like for the back) and filled it with ice water and put the iBook on top of it. I know of a guy who runs water from his fish tank through his computer.

Care is for girls

[Cigarra]

"With proper care, it's safe and a quiet way to cool your machine."

The thing is, i don't wanna HAVE to be careful. When these things ain't need no proper care nor love nor sissy feelings at all, THEN they will be ready to hit the masses.

Yea right.

[Kenja]

Water in your computer! What could go wrong?

Sorry, but the 10% or so you get from over clocking isn't worth it.

Re:Yea right.

[BobWeiner]

Don't knock it until you try it.

Re:Yea right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you have any idea whay your talking about.

By watercooling my Athlon XP-Mobile 2600, (a $90 chip) I am able run 100% stable 24/7 @ 2.8GHz. That is a full 600MHz faster than the fastest barton available, and a full 800MHz faster than the chip is specified.

Re:Yea right.

[Kazrath]

So you can pump more juice through it. How does it benchmark? Is it 10%? 20%? faster? I highly doubt your getting a 1:1 ratio

Re:Yea right.

[taviso]

Oh please, next you'll be telling us water and electricity doesn't mix. [english translation]

Re:Yea right.

[mindwar]

well how about he needs the last bit of performence? if it's achievable why not do it? you get the benefit of getting a silent box too wich matters to some of us out there. Using yer line of thinking no one should upgrade from a barton2500@3200 to a a64 or somethin. Maybe not everybody does wordprocesing and Solitaire you know.

Re:Yea right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there any reason to watercool besides overclocking cheap underpowered hardware? $50 more could have bought you a chip that doesn't completely suck ass. Instead you spent $100 on watercooling equipment. Congratulations! You are dumb.

Re:Yea right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe not everybody does wordprocesing and Solitaire you know

I think you just made that fact quite apparent.

Re:Yea right.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a fucking retard and that's all there is to it.

State of the art CPU cooling

[freelunch]

The Cray X1 employs Phase Change cooling in one of the more extreme power densities publicly known.

Check it out in this video.

Cray's phase change uses Fluorinert, while the average PC uses Freon.

I went with an XP-90 to air cool my new Athlon 64. The heatpipes arguably make it passive phase change cooling.

Load Testing Service

[rts008]

To the admin. of /. Have you thought of turning the power of /.'s smoking servers into an additional income source? I mean, you could offer to "Load Test" some outfits new servers for a fee and then just post a link on /. announcing something like: free beer and women who love geeks-click here. If their servers could take that, then they could be assured that their servers could stand up to anything short of a direct hit from nukular WMD's!

Re:Load Testing Service

[Anonymous Coward]

Matt Damon

Re:Come to think of it

[AgentSmit]

All those fans to keep everything cool are quite annoying, especially in those quiet movie parts or long work sessions! So why not get rid of them for that reason instead of temperature?

It's finicky enough that you couldn't build a machine with water cooling and leave it in a room for 3 years so that leaves a hole in reliability as I couldn't leave my machines on while going away for two weeks on vacation

Since when is it necesary to leave a pc running that long without being around? If you want that, build a simple server and put it in a closet or another room to keep out the noise.

Air conditioning in computer room instead

[BestNicksRTaken]

Water can only cool to the ambient temperature of the room, and not below as some people seem to think - which is why it is no better than air/fan solutions, except for lower noise.

You'd be better off cooling your room with AC, and getting the benefit of cooling yourself, not just your processor!

Re:Air conditioning in computer room instead

[meowsqueak]

Yes, you can cool below ambient. Haven't you heard of a peltier? However if you cool below ambient you need to make special provisions for condensation.

Re:Air conditioning in computer room instead

[PitaBred]

Except not. Otherwise, a refrigerator would only be able to get food as cool as room temperature.
Go learn some physics :)

Re:Air conditioning in computer room instead

[BestNicksRTaken]

In reply to those who obviously don't know what I'm talking about (or can't read properly) I was talking about water cooling (as per the article) only, not peltiers or inert gases!

A WATER COOLING SYSTEM for computers cannot cool below room temperature.

Re:Air conditioning in computer room instead

[sylvandb]

Water can only cool to the ambient temperature of the room, and not below as some people seem to think

That is true, iff you are running a closed loop water system with a typical radiator as the water to air heat exchanger.

Water will cool below ambient if you do an evaporative cooling system. See "cooling tower".

sdb

Re:Air conditioning in computer room instead

[Number 110]

Good grief. Everyone is trying to argue how it's possible to make a water cooled system that cools the CPU down to lower than room temperature and they are missing the obvious. An air/fan solution isn't going to cool the CPU down to room temperature. Just for starters it is physically impossible since the fan and radiator are both within the case. This means that the best the system can do is cool the CPU to the temperature within the case, something that is probably 5-10 degrees Farenheit above room temperature depending upon the case due to all the other things in there generating heat. Secondly, you won't even get the CPU down to that temperature unless you have a windmachine for a fan and a huge heatsink. There are efficency issues involved. For reference information my CPU, which is air cooled, is running at around 108 degrees. Needless to say that is not room temperature.

A water cooled system on the other hand can actually carry the heat outside the case and transfer that heat energy into the air with a much larger radiating surface since the radiator no longer has to fit into the case.

Does this mean you can't have a poorly designed water cooling system that doesn't do as well (or does even worse) than an air cooled system? Of course not. I could easily design a bad system that would do a terrible job cooling the chip if I keep all the liquid inside the case and insulate the liquid at all points but the heatsink. The liquid will cool the CPU at first but will eventually warm until it is preventing the venting of heat from the CPU.

However the notion that a water cooled system is worthless because it can't lower the temperature of the CPU any lower than room temperature is clearly fallacious.

Re:Air conditioning in computer room instead

[bobdole369]

Try using evaporative cooling, like a nuclear cooling tower for your PC. That'll get it a few degrees below ambient, but you have to keep refilling it.

Noo!

[deacon]

[Enigeering detail ommited to pass lamenes filter]

The EER rating on air conditioners (a common heat pump) tell you the ratio of heat moved to power expended to move it. The units of EER are messed up though, it is BTU/HOUR divided by Watts, multiplied by some factor of 10.

All in one no hassle water cooling solution

[ErrataMatrix]

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041015/index.htm l I still wouldn't go with watercooling. It's mainly just to make you computer quiet and that HUM reminds me the copmuter is working.

Re:Cheap? Cheerful? How about WORKS?

[Artifakt]

The original points of this were:
it's easier to trace small leaks with neon or florescent dyes in use. Use opaque hose, and bring an actual black light near it, and you have one of the world's best cheap tests for system integrity.
Stock antifreeze is florescent green anyway, and it prevents some kinds of corrosion, so why not use it.
Now the case modders are going for the whole hobby effect, with transparent case windows to show off the glowing water inside, and built in UV sources to heat up that case they are trying to cool down (and even cold cathode lights produce some heat), so they are worrying more about apperance than substance. It's the geek equivalent of oversized exaust extensions on a rice burner. But originally, this was about being reliable and effective.

Old, dumb idea, but still nagging: "Try me"

[wonkavader]

The whole tubes and pumps and such water cooling stuff does seem overly complicated.

I wanted to just mount the PC on a fishtank and put the heatsink in with the fish, but I worried about cooking the fish. So, no fish in the tank...

Heatpipes don't seem to be sold in arbitrailly long lengths -- I don't think I could go three feet to the top of the fishtank, then down to the bottom with consumer packages.

Has anyone ever seen someone try bagging the whole computer and immersing the bag? If you vacuum out most of the air is the water to bag to chip (and drive, I suppose) contact good enough to cool the CPU, GPU, Drives, etc.?

Re:Old, dumb idea, but still nagging: "Try me"

[Mordes]

what's to prevent the bag from melting? what's going to prevent capillary action from sucking water down your cables into the bag? How are you going to seal the bag without damaging cables? How are you going to prevent the leads from the pcb from puncturing the bag? This simple solution is begining to look quite a bit less simple ;) still interesting tho... I figure the trick would be finding the right material for the bag.

Re:Old, dumb idea, but still nagging: "Try me"

[wonkavader]

And (as you point out) doing a FANTASTIC job of waterproofing it when the heat (especially if you turn the thing off, now and then) will go up and down, causing materials to expand and contract.

As for melting, I don't think that's a concern so much -- if it melts, you've FAILED to provide a system which draws away enough heat. Bags should handle 150 degrees, and we don't want the chips getting any hotter than that, if we want to call it a success.

Re:Come to think of it

[SHiVa0]

What about noise?

Sure you AC will cool the hell out of that PC (see vapochill products) but that's some noisy stuff.

Water cooling on the other hand is silent. Mostly since you can put large fan for the radiator. The largest the fan the slower it can run for the same CFM. All this generally meaning a lot less noise.

Question

[Anonymous Coward]

All of these systems seem to be based on the idea of bringing the water to the chip; couldn't you run a long peice of metal to the chip and then cool the end of that with water?

Re:Question

[aXis100]

Close...

You're correct in thinking that water is just used for the transport of heat. It allows you to situate a much larger, heavier radiator/fan away from the CPU.

You cant use a long piece of metal because it is not conductive enough....however there is an alternative. Heatpipes are 1000 times more conductive than copper of the same diameter, so they are a perfect solution. Many compact cases now use this method.

Humidity?

[laard]

I've often looked at water cooled systems online but I live in south louisiana where we have extreme humidity... how big a threat would this humidity pose if I went for a water cooled system?

Re:Humidity?

[dmeranda]

None. As long as you're not using active cooling (such as refrigeration, chilling, peltiers, etc) then ambient humidity will have the same effect with or without water cooling. Condensation is only a problem if you attempt cooling below the ambient air temperature. Almost all watercooling setups are passive (in terms of heat transfer, not pumping).

Watercooling is just an extremely efficient way to move heat from point A to point B (the CPU die to the radiator). It's not really "cooling" per se.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Koolance Watercool Case Running 3+ years now

[Ace26_805]

I had the same concerns alot of people on here seem to have about watercooling. I shelled out around $900 for a Koolance case a little over 3 years ago and popped in a Intel MB w/ P4 1.7. I also have my 6 300GB HDs and GF FX Video card water cooled as well. I have been in the case quite a few times, and even upgraded it to a P4 3Ghz, new Intel MB, and new Vid card. I even had to replace my old socket 423 cooler for a socket 478 cooler and no probs. To this day (3+ years later) I have NEVER had a single problem with my case. No leaks, no overheating, no problems period. Yes, it only cools as much as the ambient temp in the room, but on a really hot day that is only 100degrees F. As I type this I am running at 92f.. during intense gaming (ie. Doom 3) The temp never exceeds 110f on the CPU (which is where the temp probes are). I have never been able to get my heatsink/fan CPUs to cool nearly this good under intense loads. Just thought I would share my personal experience with watercooling.

Watercooling advantages...

[SHiVa0]

While most of the poeple using watercooling does so to gain performance (ie overclock) It wasn't why I did it.

You see, my computer is located inside a closet. While being the quietest computer around, I can dry my clothes with that brand new Prescott 2.8E.

I needed a way to remove the heat from that closet, So I drilled holes in the walls and installed the pump / radiator in stair room going to the basement.

I do miss wearing those warm clothes on cold winter days... :(

water...pshaw!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Only San Pellegrino will do!

used my own system on a production machine

[xtal]

http://www.nyx.net/~smanley/watercool

You can get very good results if you engineer your own system - at least as good, if not better, than the commercial alternatives. To make it safe and reliable, use good quality hoses and fuel injection hose clamps designed not to pinch the line and are very, very secure. The other thing is to use a GFCI so you don't electrocute yourself if disaster does strike. If you use a ups, make sure to insert the GFCI -after- the UPS.

I got rid of it after I upgraded to a athlon, but the noise is getting back to bother me and I'll be installing it on my system again very shortly.
Make sure to mount the radiator externally if you can, that was one problem my installation suffered from.

unseen problems with water cooling

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I ran in to this problem when moving once. Having your liquid system FREEZE. That was unique. Luckily it didn't leak afterwards but since then I've been leary of liquid cooling.

Re:unseen problems with water cooling

[NerveGas]

I once read an article where a guy was trying to go as extreme as he could, just for fun. He was using massive peltiers to cool the water flowing through his main CPU loop, and a larger water-cooling setup to cool the peltiers.

He ended up freezing the coolant in the primary loop. : )

steve

Re:unseen problems with water cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

Use a 1:1 mix of antifreze. It's good for it's anti-corossiveness, and it drops the freezing temperature to something like -50C.

If you still have problems with your system freezing, either take that shit off, and put your system outside (then get on the net and brag about your uber-yeti-powered-seti-number-cruncher), or get the hell off the south pole. :)

Slashdotted Article - Page 1 Content

[Euphorea]

Introduction
Despite a rather slow and shaky start, the water cooling revolution is well and truly under way. If the falling component prices aren't testament enough to this fact, the sheer number of kits being touted by a plethora of vendors surely is.

Nobody has ever doubted the advantages of water cooling as compared to air. Water is some twenty five times more efficient than air at conducting heat, which makes it an obvious choice for cooling all manner of hot running computer components. Unfortunately it also comes with several disadvantages too.

Perhaps the biggest hurdle water cooling has had to overcome is the natural fear in all of us that comes from pumping a fluid around the insides of an expensive, electrically powered computer. Common sense tells us we just shouldn't be doing it. Then there are the other dissuading factors such as high cost, tricky installation, bulk, weight, reliability and aesthetics - all of which have conspired to make water-cooling a fringe activity enjoyed by the elite and the brave.

However, things are changing. Water cooling is getting cheaper, safer, increasingly compact and more aesthetically pleasing with every passing day. The whole premise of liquid cooling your PC is now more viable than ever before, and with the trend for ever-increasing cooling requirements showing no signs of abating, it might be a case of when rather than if you make the switch to the wet stuff.

To help you make the plunge, we've decided to take a closer look at three different approaches to water-cooling, each theoretically suited to a different level of experience. Whether you're a LAN gamer who demands ease of transportation, an overclocker who needs top-notch performance, or even a case modder who values good looks as highly as good performance, there's something here for everyone.

Before we get stuck in, let's introduce the three kits on test: Asetek's WaterChill KT03A-L30, Eastar's Cool River Deluxe Version, and Koolance's Exos-Al.

--= I have the rest of the article copied if anyone wants me to post the rest =--

Server running IIS on Microsoft

[n0dalus]

No wonder it needs cooling, they obviously forgot how much juice Microsoft IIS + ASP.NET uses.

I also find something suspicious about a domain named 'trustedreviews.com' using Microsoft products...

My PC

[FiveRings]

My PC at home has been watercooled for about a year now. I would definitely say it's more for tinkering than performance. I haven't read the article because it's been slashdotted, but watercooling isn't really anything new. (Consider Sony and Alienware's prebuilt systems with watercooling.) I've had one spill and that was really my fault and all my hardware survived (but it was a good excuse to buy new stuff anyways). Pros: It did allow me to overclock a bit more. It was much quieter. Fun to tinker with. Cons: I have to be paranoid about leaks. I have to check water levels once in awhile. I brought it to a LAN once and it wouldn't boot up because with the pump, it sucked more amperage than they allowed per socket.

So why not just use ...

[Skapare]

So why not just use R-718 refrigerant? It works just like water.

$250 all-in-one introductory kit at Frys

[IronChefMorimoto]

I wanted to chime in here. My friend and I put together HIS Zalman Reserator (not mine -- got no extra money for these things) and Antec Aria SFF PC a few weeks ago with tremendous results. The Zalman Reserator retails for $250 at Frys. Most online vendors charge more for it.

It's basically a 2.5' tall heatsink/radiator with a submerged pump. It includes a waterblock for your processor (Intel and AMD) and all the tubing/hardware you need.

You lose the ability to easily bleed the thing, although clamping off hoses and pouring nearly 3 liters of water out the top of a Reserator doesn't really seem all that troublesome to me.

Bottom line -- he dropped his idle temps by 20C and his load temps by a similar amount. This was a few weeks ago when it was slightly warmer here in Georgia. He now idles (running a P4 Prescott) at about 27C. It's pretty amazing.

For more information, see here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=783557

IronChefMorimoto

Re:$250 all-in-one introductory kit at Frys

[Kris_J]

I'm going to look to a pair of these when I'm putting together my dual-CPU SLI monster.

Hotglue...

[ylikone]

I once tried a new way of water-cooling by hotglueing the entire motherboard... yes, I basically coated it with glue and lowered it into a bucket filled with icy water. I obviously kept the power supply and harddrives on a table next to the bucket. All the cabling was also well glued at the connection points to the motherboard. No pumps needed, no CPU fan.

Anyway, now I can overclock my P4 from 1.8 to 2.4 with no problem... and anytime I start getting lock-ups, I just throw in a few more ice cubes from the freezer.

Chemistry 101

[Anonymous Coward]

You (hopefully) brush your teeth with flourine everyday (stannous flouride). There are huge differences between chemical combinations using a certain element, just look at carbon in HCN (hydrogen cyanide) and CO2 (carbon dioxide).

Re:Chemistry 101

[Anonymous Coward]

flouride has never been shown to help your teeth in any way. but has links to cancer...why do you hope that we use it in our toothpaste?

I was considering water cooling, but....

[Wellmont]

After i did a few calculations and "wonderings" of my own i decided to just build my system around a better heatsink similar to the design of the radiator found in most normal watercooling systems. Most people use watercooling for performance, but there are others who use it for stability and the noise factor. The problem is that the manufacturers will tell you that watercooling is better because:
1.) better cooling
2.) less noise
3.) less vibration

The fan that is currently installed on my copper based heatsink is realatively quiet and i can control it with the rheostat i put on the front of the computer. What most computer "hobbiests" don't realise is that a watercooling system must include a fan that is larger then the fan used on most modern heatsinks.
What watercooling systems do is transfer the heat away from the CPU quickly. However because the water has to cool before being recycled, to the "plastic" resevoir so common in today's designs, it must be pushed through a large metal maze similar to the radiator on most cars. This radiator must be cooled by a fan, and more often then not the radiator is placed outside the case to achieve maximum performance and airflow. So in conclusion if your looking for performance, go straight to vapor cooling (that's real quiet). But if your looking for silence stay away from watercooling.

Re:I was considering water cooling, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes you use larger fans (120mm) at very low rpms and they are much quieter then the smaller fans turning high rpm. A good 120 at 7v is nearly silent if using a good shroud or a radiator.

Vapor cooling is not quiet either. You have the compressor noise to deal with plus the hassle of startup times. They are much better now then the older models.

Do a little more research and I think you'll change your mind.

Re:I was considering water cooling, but....

[sw155kn1f3]

What you don't understand is that larger fans produc e much less noise with the same performance, because of much lower RPM.
Compare 120mm fans used for radiators in watercooling system and 40mm fans in average 2U unit and you'll understand what I mean.

Re:I was considering water cooling, but....

[Wellmont]

a fan is still a fan, and my 120mm fans even on low rpms are loud...especially when placed outside of the case. but another thing to consider is the pump...that's a small fan or fan wheel that's at a VERY high rpm in order to move the appropriate ammount of water through the system.
Another thing i should point out is the danger and cost of a water cooled system. The danger (if you do the setup improperly) with any kind of water around electronics is a short. Water is a conductor of electricity, whereas a normal fan or vapor chilling system doesn't conduct electricity. Yes you can make the water less electrically conductive but you need to pour more money into the sink hole which is water cooling. The average price of a water cooling system right now is anywhere from 130 for your low end system to over 500 or even 1000 for some of the higher end plain water cooling systems.

I won't be a complete nay sayer, i'll have to point out that i do appretiate the ability of a waterblock to increase performance of a system (ever so slightly). Also a watercooling system reduces the ammount of vibration due to a fan being over the processor, and it also reduces the probability of cracking the dye that encases the hottest components of a processor because of the lower weight of the watercooling block. I've modded about 4 casses now, two for performance and two for asthetics and silence...i do understand the difference between your average 40mm screamer and your 120mm fan. But I've also made one of my silent cases with a water cooling system, i'm sorry it's just not as quiet as say a fanless heatpipe system like the one zalman supposedly puts out.
In the end it really doesn't mater if you use a 120mm fan or a 40mm fan, both draw power and both are too noisy for the average end user. The appeal for watercooling is performance. The next time you read the sound rattings for a particular water cooling system make sure you pay attention to the fact that they insulate the pump (to bring down the noise) and they also use a TOP Of the line radiator (usually only available as an option) with multiple berring fans. The average watercooling system puts out much more noise then the average heatpipe active heatsink.

Re:I was considering water cooling, but....

[aXis100]

fan is still a fan, and my 120mm fans even on low rpms are loud...especially when placed outside of the case. but another thing to consider is the pump...that's a small fan or fan wheel that's at a VERY high rpm in order to move the appropriate ammount of water through the system.

I disagree.

I run a watercooled system, and my homemade case has mesh sides which do nothing to stop the noise. From my personal experience (as opposed to speculation):

* My Ehiem pump is virtually silent (seriously)
* The 2 x 120mm AC fans are quite quiet, and have a low frequency wooshing sound which is gentle on the ears.
* The cooling system is quieter than the HDD
* The whole system is quieter than the 60mm stock fan on my wife's PC.

Re:A naive question

[FiveRings]

Most DIY watercooling systems run the water through some kind of radiator or heater core, usually taken from a car. And instead of blowing a fan on the CPU itself, they blow the fan across the radiator to cool the water down in the loop.

Re:Slashdotted Article - Page 2 Content

[Euphorea]

Asetek WaterChill KT03A-L30

Price £186.83
(Inc. 17.5% VAT)
Manufacturer Asetek
http://www.asetek.dk/
Supplier Chillblast
http://www.chillblast.com

Overall

Perhaps the reason the WaterChill is so popular among enthusiasts is that it's a kit in the loosest sense of the word. In essence what you get is a box that contains all the items you need, apart from the coolant, to configure and build an efficient liquid cooling system much as you'd get if you went out and hand-picked all the components yourself. Fortunately, having the components supplied for you in this fashion doesn't mean you're settling for second best, as everything from the radiator to the cooling blocks are of the very highest quality.

Asetek's WaterChill kit is probably the least suitable candidate of the three for the inexperienced user. Not because it's difficult to assemble, but because of the complexity involved in finding a suitable location for the large radiator and its two 120mm cooling fans. In the vast majority of cases this radiator will need to be mounted externally unless you want to embark on some extensive internal case re-engineering. For the hardcore PC user this is a small price to pay but for those whose needs are a little less extreme this may be a deal breaker. On the plus side, Asetek also supply single radiator kits which are much more manageable but, as you might expect, slightly less efficient.

As for the water blocks, these have been redesigned from earlier units although they still possess their distinctive, very thick, clear Plexiglass lids that have become synonymous with Asetek's blocks.

Unlike their previous single-feed, single-return design, Asetek has taken a different approach with its new Antarctica blocks in that water is fed to them through a single, centrally located feed pipe. The heated water is then fed back out through dual return pipes, one on either side of the block, before a Y-shaped piece combines the flows into a single line again to be fed on to further cooling blocks or returned to the radiator. Asetek's method for increasing internal surface area involves using small channels machined into the back of the base which you'd imagine would be more prone to sludge up than Koolance's spikes when used in poorly maintained systems. However, in practice they'll probably be kept sufficiently clear by the force of water being fed directly through them from the central water feed.

The new blocks are a perfect example of how little coolant needs to be in a block at any given time. There seems to be little room for more than five or 10ml of coolant in the actual block itself, though it's obviously circulating quickly and being replaced at a rapid rate.

The kit we were supplied with came with only a CPU block, although Asetek does offer additional blocks suitable for VGA and chipset cooling too. If clearance with standard lid becomes an issue with the layout of some AMD platform motherboards on the market, there's an additional smaller Plexi lid that can be used instead.

The pump is a relatively huge Hydor L30, which boasts a capacity of around 1200 litres/hour. The suction cup mounting option gives a bit of a clue to its aquarium origins. It also explains the slightly clumsy way the reservoir attaches to it using an almost improvised bracket that clearly had to be designed around the pump. It works though and that's what counts.

The reservoir is a cylindrical affair that's primarily constructed from Plexiglass giving easy visual confirmation of coolant level and condition. The feed and return nozzles are at 90 degrees to each other which somewhat limits its possible mounting locations.

Surprisingly, Asetek states a rating of "at least 200W" which sounds a little conservative when compared to Koolance's claimed 300W capacity for its kit.

--= I have the rest of the article copied if anyone wants me to post the rest =--

Re:Cheap? Cheerful? How about WORKS?

[zrobotics]

except that the main purpose of antifreeze is to lower the freezing temperature of the water in your car so it doesn't rupture the radiator. by itself, antifreeze isn't a very good coolant, which is why you need to mix it 50/50 with water.

water=good coolant/high freezing temp

antifreeze=low freezing temp/bad coolant

No Noise Question

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason I would consider a water cooled system is to run silent. Does anyone know of an inexpensive solution thats well sealed and completely silent?

Re:No Noise Question

[eutychus_awakes]

The "off" switch.

Watercooling is aces!

[piGuy314]

As someone who uses watercooling, I thought I'd address some of the comments mentioned here.

"Pump failure means watercooling isn't reliable"

-Fans fail too! If a pump fails in a watercooling system, you'll have more time before system failure than if a fan fails in an air cooling system. Although pumps typically do fail more often than fans, they can last a long time if kept within operating conditions. Also, there will likely be signs that pump failure is imminent.

"Watercooling can only get the processor down to room temp, so it's no better than air cooling!"

-Although watercooling and air cooling have the same theoretical limit, this means nothing in the real world. I'm using a 2.4A Prescott in my system. With the stock cooler (which is actually pretty decent), idle temps are in the mid 30's, load temps mid 40's. Overclocked to 3.2Ghz, idle temps are mid 40's, load temps are in the 50's. At an unstable 3.6Ghz overclock, load temps exceed 60. With watercooling, stock idle temps are in the hig 20's. Load temps are exactly the same! Overclocked to 3.6Ghz, idle temps are low 30's, load temps are high 30's. I think these numbers speak for themselves. By switching to watercooling, my temperatures dropped by as much as 30C!

"Water and electronics don't mix! Leaks scare me!"

-If you take time building your system, leaks should never occur. If you hack together a ghetto system from Lowe's, don't be surprised if you find leaks. I'm using Tygon tubing and stainless steel hose clamps, and I haven't had a single leak problem. The first few days I was cautious, but I now have no reservations about leaving the system unattended.

I'm not saying watercooling is perfect. It is definitely expensive. However, the price delta between crappy performance and high performance is surprisingly small. There's really no reason to spend money on these little compact easy to use systems. The performance is no different than air cooling, and it costs more! But spend a few extra bucks for good parts and you'll see the performance skyrocket.

Re:Watercooling is aces!

[aXis100]

I use an Ehiem pump for my PC watercooling. It's been going strong for 3 years of regular use. My aquarium's Ehiem pump has been flawless running for 5 years non stop.

Decent water pumps are built *very* well. Ceramic bearings with magnetic drive - very little wear/friction.

Fans on the other hand tend to crap out pretty quick as they fill up with dust, bearings dry out etc.

Re:Watercooling is aces!

[sharok]

I've got to agree. I went watercooling for two reasons : I fount that the HSF on the Thunderbird was the most annoying thing I had ever heard, and TomsHardware had just made a review of Innovatec's cooling system.
Bought the components on the web, mounted them, and I've never heard a HSF since.

pure water

[MenTaLguY]

The trouble with pure water is that it's a very powerful solvent (it even burns when you drink it, not badly, but you still don't want to drink a lot of it...).

It wouldn't remain pure for long, at the expense of everything it came in contact with.

thermal paste is not that bad

[Bishop]

Despite the hype on the "enthusiast" sites thermal paste typically has good thermal conductivity compared to other semi liquid meterials.

It works great

[Zackbass]

I've been doing my own water cooling systems for a few years now and have come to the conclusion that if you aren't a complete idiot you'll never have any trouble.

Here's my first project:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1009/index.asp

I finished my second last September and have been using it since. I built the whole case from stainless steel tubing. One side of the case is pressurized for water distribution and the other side is a reservior. Here's a pic:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/zackbass1/IMG_0023compr essed.jpg
The great thing about is that I'm able to run my little 2.4C at over 3.4Ghz (I built it in Sept 2003, so it was a big deal) completely silently. The radiator is large enough that it doesn't need any fans. The only noise that comes from the case is the hard disks spinning.

Re:It works great

[Euphorea]

Wow, really like the first project, wishing for more pictures/writeup of the second project... My only comment is the "if you aren't a complete idiot..." statement, which I can agree with, but in your case I think you're well beyond the "average non-idiot" which certainly helps you tackle these custom jobs... If I had the skill and tools to do that sort of custom work, I would certainly consider snatching up some of your ideas :)

Re:It works great

[Zackbass]

Here's the entire project from start to finish:
http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?s=&thre adid=165425

Maybe "Complete Idiot" is a bit harsh of a term, but the only way you can really screw up is by not tightening your hose clamps (you'll catch it before the machine powers on anyway), buying cheap parts that can break (very rare), or spilling water during filling (which doens't matter since the machine is off).

Not considering... doing it!

[silverdr]

... for a good time and not even thinking about going back.

Re:Not considering... doing it!

[gilliboo]

Does urinating on my windows box count... I consider doing that regularly!!

Re:Ob AVForums discussion... real funny!

[maggern]

Hehehe, that's really funny! Poor bastard! heheheh

Peltier cool the air intake

[leon.gandalf]

Why not peltier cool the air being drawn into the system.... much in the same way those 12v travel coolers keep things cool.

Boiling points, refrigerants, and watercooling...

[Svartalf]

In actuality, water's a superior refrigerant so long as you're not trying to cool down below freezing and can come up with a compressor with the right volumetric capacity under vacuum. When water boils, it pulls roughly 2700 BTUs out of the surounding environment per liter boiled. At 6 bar, water will readily boil at somewhere around 40deg F, dragging that much heat out of the environment as quickly it can be absorbed by the water under those conditions. The big issue is that it's volumetric rate (how much volume you have to pump out of the low-side of the system...) is roughly double any other possible refrigerants out there. There's currently not that many vacuum pumps that can actually DO this sort of thing and the ones that do are typically rather expensive- so we don't currently use water as a refrigerant.

Now, as to why water's used instead of refrigerants is that it's cheap (An R-134a system would set you back a solid 500 or so, a watercooling rig will set you back only $150-250 and does a better than adequate job (especially if you're looking for normal operation with less noise and less CPU heat...), and it has a heat capacity that makes for a very nice thermal transfer medium. It's why you water cool cars and trucks.

Cooling with large metal surface

[cpghost]

Why would you need to water cool that metal, if it could just fan out into a large surface some inches away from the chip? How much cooling surface do we need for current CPUs?

I'm actually wondering why the large metal case of most MIDI towers ain't used as dissipation surface in the first place.

You might want to re-state that...

[Svartalf]

This would depend entirely on whether you exceed the heat-pumping capacity of the refrigerator. If you don't exceed the amount being pumped out of the space, it will cool down, the rate being dependent on the rate of thermal transfer above and beyond the heat source's generation of heat.

I've seen active refrigeration systems coupled with water cooling that were based off of mini-fridges (There was one that won a case-mod prize at QuakeCon 2003...). The CPU was cooled down below ambient and he was able to keep Bawls and Cokes cold in the thing.

Re:Come to think of it

[Anonymous Coward]

That is what I do. I have the ghetto set up in that I used a (new) dryer exhaust hose that directs air from the window AC unit to the back of the computer. I left the enpansion port covers off and have the end of the dryer hose blowing cool air between my video card and sound card (the cable for each work great in wedging the flexible metal tubing in place). When running, it works well enough in that I can feel cool air even coming out of the power supply exhaust fan.When it is warm enough for the computer to benefit from it, I would have already switched on the unit.

It's also about anti-corrosion...

[Svartalf]

What you're doing when you add anti-freeze to a watercooling rig is trying to offset corrosion effects (it's water after all- it's going to have anodic effects on the waterblocks, radiator, etc..) and to prevent mildew and algae buildup in the thing.

Not a good idea

[qray]

I tried this a while back. I took my laptop into the shower with me and turned on the cold water. While it did cool off my lap as well as the laptop I quickly got the blue screen of death.

Apparently Microsoft didn't test their OS very well and it apparently crashes in close proximity to water. I've reported this problem, hopefully we'll see a water proof service pack soon, maybe SP3.

Water Cooling

[ethame]

I just have a garden hose running through the window...whenever I think the computer might be getting hot I hose it down. It doesn't seem to complicated or expensive...and nothing says stylish like a garden hose running through your window.

Re:Slashdotted Article - Page 2 Content

[Anonymous Coward]

please keep it coming :)

If you're interested in unbiased water / peltiers

[GuyFawkes]

you could take a look at my site
http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/news.php

which details experiments with peltiers and water cooling.

For those who can't be bother it boils down to this.

1/ water cooling is OK if done properly, but all the commercial "home" watercooling products are absolute shite

2/ peltiers work, but add huge heat loads to the system overall, and should never be directly interfaced to silicon.

Hopefully in the next few weeks (having just bought a vacuum pump) I can get around to playing with large scale home made heat pipes and report on those.

HTH etc.

Anti-Freeze is worse

[unassimilatible]

I don't understand why people use anti-freeze in their computer water cooling systems-- it's not going to be all that more efficient at cooling than say, distilled water,

Actually, it's less efficient than H2O, as the thermal conductivity and thermal capacity is considerably worse in anti-freeze. The only reason to use it is in sub-zero chillers.

I think people use anti-freeze for the anti-corrosive (and a lack of understanding of its thermal properties), but there are better solutions for anti-corrosion. I use 15% Hy-perlube in my system - and in my car!

with some water additive for your distilled water, you don't have to worry about corrosion or rusting.

Actually, some systems have two types of metals (copper, aluminum) which can cause galvanic corrosion, so an anti-corrosive is a good thing. Also, there is the bacterial issue, so it's good to have something in there to kill the nasties, lest they take over your PC and use it for evil.

Bringlish?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying the Brits hack the language worse than the Asians?

Re:Bringlish?

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the language is called "English" and not "Americanese", who was it that did the hacking?

Re:A naive question

[Anonymous Coward]

heat of fusion of water is ~6.02kJ/mol
one mole of water is ~18g
one joule is ~0.24 calories
specific heat of water is ~1 cal./(g C)
so it would take about 80x as much heat to boil (e.g. from 100l-100v C @ 1atm) water as it would to raise that same amount of water from 98-99 C.

in other words -- yeah, it's possable, but in boiling, the water absorbs a lot more energy than it does in just warming up.

Fluorinert

[Visaris]

You can buy Fluorinert it in 250cc or 1L bottles here:

http://www.parallax-tech.com/fluorine.htm

Turn it upside down

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok I'm not a hardware techie kind of girl, but if you guys are afraid of leaks why not have the CPU/GPU on top and the water pumping hazard below? Then if you have a leak it will only wet your desk?

What wrong with AC

[masterofsw]

Of course this is too easy but... Just use a standard Window AC Unit and put the PC in a box...

Re:Why use Water?!?-Fluorinert is GOLD

[waferhead]

Flourinert FC77 costs $450 for a 14 lb can, which is about 1 litre...
(Fluorocarbons are HEAVY)

Go ahead and buy that vapo-chill system.

latent heat of vaporization

[Anonymous Coward]

When i was in the US Navy nuclear power program, heat transfer and fluid flow came up every now and then.

Let me just say this; If your cooling system doesn't have the fluid changing state (liquid to gas, gas to liquid) then don't even TALK about it. Latent Heat of Vaporization is probably the second most important idea ever created (behind Language).

Look, you are reading slashdot, you are a nerd, you want your hacks to be elegant and efficient... so make use of your friend... LHOV.

Thanks.

PS: ERUL, commence 10k operations, align freshwater to #1 RFT, then to #1 PWT forward.

Re:Are we done watercooling yet? ... I got Lowes!

[catch23]

hey I built a water cooling system outta parts from Lowe's and I am proud of it! I bought a 1990 Honda Accord radiator on ebay for $30, lots of different sized tubes from Home Depot for a total of near $50 I think. I spend at least $50 on stupid little hose adapters to fit everything properly, $80 for two 500gph pump from Petsmart (I wanted two for redundancy, but one will work just fine), 2 Zalman cpu waterblocks, 2 Zalman gpu waterblocks, and a $2 jug of pre-mixed radiator coolant from Walmart. The radiator was so big, I didn't need a fan to cool it off! The whole system pumps 1.5 gallons around cooling 2 processors and 2 video cards across 4 computers. Works pretty well... wish I had pictures to back up my comments with though...

My liquid cooling . . .

[droleary]

. . . came factory installed, you insensitive clod! Even handles two processors. Yet another $200+ feature that never seems to get factored in when people compare platforms.

No, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

The fan on my iBook (that only went on twice since XMas 2003) is perfectly adequate.
Who TF wants to carry around a whole fridge anyway???

Ummmm, Here is a Cheaper Solution

[Nautica]

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product _id=2134418

Stick your PC in it and it will stay Cool, not only that you still have room for your BEER.

just make sure...

[DourSalmon]

that your cat doesn't chew through the silicone tubes. Bad Juju. Plus the carpet'll get all mildewy.

You're gonna itch.

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to rinse after you soaped.

Agreed.

[MachineShedFred]

I am a watercooler. I built a dual Xeon workstation because I needed to run VMware for studying and playing with stuff for my work. After I built it, the damn thing was so loud I couldn't stand to have it on.

Solution #1: Dynamat. Most of the noise was being caused by the CPU fans being exactly the same, and turning on at the same time, causing sympathetic vibrations through the aluminum case. A little Dynamat here, and a little there, and all the vibrations were gone.

Solution #2: Water cooling. It was still damn loud due to the amount of fans in there. So, I got some copper water blocks, and some tubing from my local Home Depot, and some hose clamps. Combine those with a 12V inline pump at the bottom of the case, and you've got yourself a nice little system. It almost runs as quiet as my PowerBook.

However, if you are to build your own system, be smart about it. Don't use tap water unless you want a leak to destroy your entire box; it's not water that conducts, it's the minerals it carries. Go spend the $1 on a gallon of distilled water - not the kind you buy to drink - reverse osmosis distilled water. Cut that with your standard ethylene glycol anitfreeze about 1:1 and you will have a non-corroding coolant that will work great for years.

BTW - I have a brother that is an auto mechanic that got fired up when he saw what I did, so version 2 will probably feature bent copper tubing that will be soldered from the radiator to the water blocks to the pump. Then I really will have something we'll be proud of, because I can't imagine anyone would go through that process unless they already have all the tools and know-how...

The other side of the refridgerator

[Firethorn]

4: devotes a much smaller amount of space to heating/cooling system
5: designed for a low duty cycle most of the time (previously stated).
6: better insulated inside, only relevant if you're trying to keep the CPU below ambiant.

A large refridgerator would probably be able to do it. A chest deep freezer would probably work better, and take up less space. Designed to keep stuff colder, so probably has a beefier moter.

gotta luv asp

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I guess the site got slashdot'd:

Server Error in '/' Application.
Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in use and max pool size was reached.
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.InvalidOperationException: Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in use and max pool size was reached.

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[InvalidOperationException: Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in use and max pool size was reached.]
System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnectionPoolManager.Get PooledConnection(SqlConnectionString options, Boolean& isInTransaction) +396
System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection.Open() +384
TrustedReviews.phpBBcookie.LoadSession(String sessionID)
TrustedReviews.phpBBcookie..ctor()
TrustedReviews.PageTemplate.Page_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
System.EventHandler.Invoke(Object sender, EventArgs e) +0
System.Web.UI.Control.OnLoad(EventArgs e) +67
System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +35
System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain() +731

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

Re:Come to think of it

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, that's great and all, but it's still not going to be as efficient as a minimalistic ambient temperature watercooling system, and it's all too likely to be a helluva lot nosier... And it's not likely to gain you anything unless you plan to overclock like crazy.

From my perspective, watercooling is great if you want to do a couple things, those being cool your computer a bit better without using more fans (cooling drives, bridges, whatever in the process), or to make a very quiet (nearly silent) computer (using larger fans at lower RPMs, etc)

HUH!

[Captain DaFt]

Real Men (TM) use these
of course you also need this
to run it and this to keep your system from shorting out!
(Make Tim PROUD of you! grunt grunt grunt...) };-)

The submerged mouse

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this the stuff that mouse was submerged in as part of marketing? There was somespeculaton that it could be used by divers for delivering oxygen under very high pressure with mix easier to manage.

If this was the stuff and anyone has / knows of a phot of the submerged mouse paddling around, Id love a copy. Video of moue going in, bubbles, swimming, coming out, draining and going back to breathign air would be wonderful.

I would guess I saw this on TV back in the early / mid 60's.

TNX

Re:The submerged mouse

[Bryan K. Feir]

Well, they did the 'submerged mouse' bit in the movie The Abyss; apparently the mouse actually was submerged, that wasn't SFX, though the actor's weren't.

UL

[Detritus]

UL is usually concerned about safety, not reliability. If it fails safe, UL is happy.

UL usually tests complete systems or assemblies, not component parts.

Re:Cheap? Cheerful? How about WORKS?

[toddestan]

But originally, this was about being reliable and effective.

I seem to remember water cooling was originally about overclocking the hell out of Pentium II's and K6's. Now it's normal people fighting the heat created by today's processors and video cards running at their spec'd speeds. I'd say now they need to be more reliable than ever. If I was to water cool my system, I would want several years (atleast) of reliable service. An overclocker who constantly tweaks his system would be more likely to put up with constant maintance and repairs than I would.

Why water.

[GnarlyNome]

this has been used to cool large systems
http://www.c-f-c.com/specgas_products/r11 .htm
(of course the E)A might get you

Mineral oil

[nelsonal]

Why couldn't you run mineral oil instead of water in an enclosed system. I ran the numbers and it looked like it should be able to pump about 200W using a 2 Gpm pump. Copper block and radiator sufficent to dispose the heat to ambient (assumes a 10C differential in temp). Has anyone ever tried to run mineral oil through a pump intended for water does the increased viscosity shorten the life, or will it handle it alright? Seems like most of the mineral oil set ups I've seen discribed use immersion which seems like considerable overkill. Mineral oil seems like a fine solution until processor power goes considerably higher. The heat transfer class I took was an aweful long time ago so please point out any errors in my back of the envelope calcs.

Re:If you're interested in unbiased water / peltie

[sharok]

Remove subscriptions for reading and I may.
Innovatec products are well made, easy to install and work very well. So "all" commercial home WC products are NOT shite.
You might try to review one - I'm sure you'd change your mind.

Water? Bah! In my day, we didn't have water...

[Cervantes]

... which is why I'm building an air-cooling solution.

Step 1: Pick up cheap LAN rack. In my case, enclosed, but any will do.

Step 2: Buy a big fan. Bathroom vent style. Mine is 200CFM, and I slapped a dimmer switch on there to moderate the speed as required. Enclose it in a big wood box to cut down noise, and have the only inlet as a standard 2" pvc tube. An outlet might be a good idea too.

Step 3: Build enclosed cases. Have 1 hole on top, connecting to the 2" tube from the fan. Inlets on the far side of the case. My cases are 3-4U high, thick wood.

Now, we have well-vented cases that cool to room temperature.

The kicker:
Step 4: Connect all your case inlets via flexible tubing to another box on the bottom of the rack, with your choice of cooler... peltier, standard A/C, bar fridge, bucket of ice cubes, whatever. Poof! Room temperature just became 10C.

I live in Alberta, so I'll just run the tube outside... ahhh, refreshing -40C air. That won't hurt the PC, right?

With a mega-size rad on your CPU, you'll never have an overheating problem again, it's quiet, it doesn't matter if one part of the system fails, because standard thermal dynamics will keep things going the right way until it's fixed. It won't leak, short out my PC, get me wet, break if my cat chews it...

So, I say again... BAH! Water!