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Funniest IT Related Boasts You've Heard?

Karma asks: "The other day I saw a Slashdot comment which read, '[Projects] don't start getting interesting until you are dealing with Staff Years to develop them. Anything under that and you can actually keep the full design in your head'. An immodest boast, but not too funny. This made me wonder, in the macho worlds of IT and developers, what are the funniest and silliest boasts or bragging claims you've made, or heard? Tell us how they came back to haunt the overconfident."

490 comments

  1. My Roommate by NotoriousQ · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah, I can write a raytracer in a single day. /He did. It was a looooong day.

    --
    badness 10000
    1. Re:My Roommate by NotoriousQ · · Score: 3, Funny

      Guess that should have been:

      Yeah, I can get a first post.
      Drat.

      --
      badness 10000
    2. Re:My Roommate by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Pah. I could do it in less than an hour!

      Limited to tracing a single ray with a hardcoded rectangular axis alligned object, perhaps, but it would be a ray tracer.

    3. Re:My Roommate by ggambett · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You can, in fact, write a simple raytracer in a couple of hours. Here's one of mine.

    4. Re:My Roommate by Gnulix · · Score: 1

      I remember when you could boast about compiling a ray tracer in a single day...

    5. Re:My Roommate by IWorkForMorons · · Score: 1

      Me, College: I can write anything in three lines of code!

      I got a lot of flak for that. But it still doesn't match telling a teacher "This program is PERFECT!" Yeah, he examined my code a lot closer then everyone else after that. There have been many more, but those are some of the more ridiculess ones.

      The best thing would have been for me to learn from these events...but I haven't...

  2. I have screwed up therefor I have learnt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    While this is true I am not sure it is a great boast to have :-)

  3. Debug? Me? by drkich · · Score: 5, Funny

    We have a person at our work place that once boasted that he did not have to debug his programs, they just worked. And he was completely serious. Of course what we did not tell him, but we should have, is that we found a bug in his program.

  4. Not quite by Otter · · Score: 5, Funny
    Does Eric Raymond's famous "Reflections On Sudden Wealth" essay after the VA Linux IPO count as a boast? I certainly got a few laughs out of the aftermath.

    Not quite a boast but -- a low-level admin at my wife's old workplace sent out this (paraphrased) email:

    "I'm leaving this job to start my own network consulting firm. I'm feeling a lot of emotions right now, and here's a song that really captures them."

    And he attaches a 5 meg MP3 file and sends it to hundreds of people, completely sinking their mail server.

    1. Re:Not quite by Achoi77 · · Score: 1
      Ok that was hilarious. :-)

      So did he do it in order to work up some potential customers for his new firm?

    2. Re:Not quite by chaoaretasty · · Score: 1

      At which point the boss gets his own back with a phone call to our favourite 4 letter acronym.

    3. Re:Not quite by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      with a phone call to our favourite 4 letter acronym.
      Uh, how do you phone RTFM?
      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  5. Heh by itwerx · · Score: 4, Funny

    Best one I've heard was from a newly-minted and very pro-MS CIO who claimed (right after Win2K first came out) that Active Directory was a much better solution for their company network (thousands of employees and dozens of offices) than the existing Novell Netware/NDS.
    They went through half a dozen consulting firms before firing the CIO and everyone else involved in the project...

    1. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not about the karma, it's about your comments.

      Most people browse at 3 or 4.

    2. Re:Heh by hdparm · · Score: 1

      You're not serious, right? Who reads your comment then? And this reply (before it gets moded +4)?

    3. Re:Heh by baldass_newbie · · Score: 1

      Our CIO has sold SharePoint Portal as 'proven technology' to the board.
      I'm about ready to start a pool.

      --
      The opposite of progress is congress
    4. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously nobody!

    5. Re:Heh by duvie · · Score: 0
      heh. I work at a company that I shall not name (look for a Document Company in the F500), and four years later, they are finally rolling out AD. The chief noticeable difference is... now our print banners CAN'T* have our actual names on them, they must have our Employee Number. The security issues with forcing everyone's EE number to be public are too numerous to recount.

      * - CAN'T: a word that one time in a hundred means "Would violate a law of physics" and the other ninety-nine times means, "I don't wanna."

  6. Design???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work on a > 15 yr old system created with no design documentation.
    Fortunately code is self documenting.

    Posting AC for obvious reasons.

    1. Re:Design???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm not sure I see the reas...oh, waitaminute, I see it! Fortunately code is self documenting obviously implies that you're working on a COBOL system.

    2. Re:Design???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No but the language has some COBOLesq features.

    3. Re:Design???? by jkirby · · Score: 1

      Life is too short for COBOL

      --
      Jamey Kirby
    4. Re:Design???? by buttahead · · Score: 1

      macro snobol?

    5. Re:Design???? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      VAX DIBOL?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  7. Campus Network Services by secondsun · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Campus network services at a Jr. College I went to a few years ago: "Yes we do know our ass from a router."

    This of course was after a quick nmap found everything running telnet. Which was also running without a password. Turn dhcp off on a few of those babies and somone has to work a Looonng night.

    --
    There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
    1. Re:Campus Network Services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Turn dhcp off on a few of those babies and somone has to work a Looonng night.

      Wow you are sooooo cool. I suppose that after you did that you DID tell network services which ones you compromised, right?

    2. Re:Campus Network Services by Ithika · · Score: 1
      Turn dhcp off on a few of those babies and somone has to work a Looonng night.
      Wow you are sooooo cool. I suppose that after you did that you DID tell network services which ones you compromised, right?

      And you are sooooo stupid you can't even do basic reading comprehension. The word used was 'has' not 'had'; only the latter implies it was done.

    3. Re:Campus Network Services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you're saying they did nothing, and the security holes are still there, and nobody's informed them of it?

  8. The classic Bill Gates by tantalic · · Score: 5, Informative
    "640K ought to be enough for anybody"

    Of course there are disputes as to whether this was actually said or not, or the context...but certainly one of the funniest and most famous tech boasts.

    1. Re:The classic Bill Gates by jkirby · · Score: 2, Informative

      He did say it. I had the actual interview for years; with a picture of Bill and an IBM model 80

      --
      Jamey Kirby
    2. Re:The classic Bill Gates by AndrewHowe · · Score: 2, Funny

      Isn't it strange that every single copy of "the actual interview" has disappeared? Maybe they were stolen by Bill's army of leprechaun minions. Or maybe, just maybe, he didn't say it.

    3. Re:The classic Bill Gates by mbourgon · · Score: 1

      Go look through the old Apple promo CD-ROMs... they had a video of it.

      --
      "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
    4. Re:The classic Bill Gates by AndrewHowe · · Score: 1

      I don't have any of those. Could anyone who has access to the aforementioned CD-ROMs try to find this video?
      Given how embarrassing the quote would be if it were real, and that Gates has repeatedly denied saying it, and given how many people would like to stick one on him, isn't it strange that no-one has ever been able to cite a specific, verifiable source?

    5. Re:The classic Bill Gates by mbourgon · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's interesting, yes. I went looking through my stash for the video. I'm reminded of the "that'd be up the butt, Bob" story on The Newlywed Game. They had a special a year or two ago, and the host of The Newlywed Game said that he had told people for years that it never happened, it was an urban legend, etc... and then his people found the tape. The question was "where's the weirdest place you've had sex". Hispanic couple, the wife said "in the ass". (The husband's was "in the car")

      Not that that really proves a damn thing (except that one urban legend is true), but it's a cool story.

      --
      "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
    6. Re:The classic Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He DID NOT say it... the quote came originally from a magazine and in response to a comment Bill made, the INTERVIEWER made the remark, "Well, 640K should be enough for anybody".

      Check your facts, dipshit... oh right... this is Slashdot.

    7. Re:The classic Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS-DOS did not have a 640KB limit. The 640KB limit was caused by IBM's architecture for the PC.

      I remember running MS-DOS with 720KB available memory on a TI Professional, 896KB on an HP-150, and 1020KB on an S-100 bus computer with 8" floppies.

    8. Re:The classic Bill Gates by cyborch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      here is a transcript.

    9. Re:The classic Bill Gates by jkirby · · Score: 1

      Coward!

      --
      Jamey Kirby
  9. Documentation by jazman_777 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Good code is self-documenting."

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    1. Re:Documentation by jag164 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unfortunately, this is true in some cases. I'd even say "Bad code is self documenting." The code base my nose is stuck in right now is a prime example. I'd rather this code base have no docs than the misleading and outdated docs it does have. Sigh.

    2. Re:Documentation by spiff42 · · Score: 1
      "Good code is self-documenting."

      Anything written in assembly language is self-documenting, because you can have comments on each line. Such as

      inc bx ; increase bx by 1

      Failure is not an option. It's hardcoded.

      I thought it was "Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product."

    3. Re:Documentation by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      No code has any documentation.... if you know where not to look :)

      Maybe that should be 'know how not to look'.

    4. Re:Documentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God damn that is the second worst comment I have ever seen.

      Your comments are supposed to be of a higher abstraction than the code for the love of crap.

    5. Re:Documentation by Hard_Code · · Score: 1

      Good code is self documenting. However, the language may be incomprehensible.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    6. Re:Documentation by stanmann · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Comments should indicate WHY??

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
    7. Re:Documentation by timonak · · Score: 1

      I've got you beat. . . In all the projects I've worked on, I've always found something good to salvage, be it good code, good artitecture, good design, or good implimentation. . . On the project I'm now; it's the people. And I hate people :-) try working on a VB3 project thats been migrated from vb3 to vb4, to vb5, to vb6. And along the way, the code hasn't been entirely updated. . . Man, you have to love bad code, keeps me employeed :-)

    8. Re:Documentation by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Well, about five years ago I started a new job. I was assigned to work on a system (at that time written largely in VB6) that a fairly perceptive customer had described as "looking like a QuickBASIC program that was converted to VB3, 4, 5 and 6 and didn't change much along the way." He was making a joke but what got management nervous was that he had described the development path of that software to a "T". That was about when I got approval to start a real development program, so I guess the guy did me a favor.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    9. Re:Documentation by E_elven · · Score: 2, Funny
      inc bx ; because bx needs to be one higher
      --
      Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
  10. I created the internet? by Eneff · · Score: 1, Funny

    (Yeah, I know.. he didn't really say it. It's funny. Laugh.)

    1. Re:I created the internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looking forward to four more years of USAPATRIOT act led my My Pet Goat, it doesn't seem that funny somehow.

  11. Heard this one the other day... by Anonimo+Covarde · · Score: 2, Funny

    "I started using Gentoo on the desktop and now I've rolled it out as a production server using some great technologies: ReiserFS, RAID-5, Gentoo patched kernel, Samba ... you name it."

    1. Re:Heard this one the other day... by rmm4pi8 · · Score: 1

      Is there something I'm missing here? Reiser, RAID-5, and Samba are most definitely ready for prime-time, and while I've no personal experience and the maintainability may not be great, I've heard of Gentoo in production environments. People still run Win2k in production, you know.

      --
      U.S. War Crimes blog. Email for free Mandriva support.
    2. Re:Heard this one the other day... by swmccracken · · Score: 1

      You're missing this.

      "I started using Gentoo on the desktop and now I've rolled it out as a production server using some great technologies: ReiserFS, RAID-5, Gentoo patched kernel, Samba ... you name it."

      What's missing is the context - funroll-loops.

    3. Re:Heard this one the other day... by hattmoward · · Score: 1

      Gentoo doesn't yet have production-level stability. In Debian, for example, you'll notice that all package versions stay the same in stable, and security patches are backported. For Gentoo, something that is "stable" means that it works okay on a particular platform, not that is stabilized for production purposes.

      I have tried before to organize a project for stable Gentoo, but didn't get any real response. I guess they don't want to loose the ability to boast over recent versions of packages. =D

    4. Re:Heard this one the other day... by Brandybuck · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bob: "With the magic of Gentoo, I'm already running KDE 3.4!"

      Joe: "KDE 3.4 isn't out yet."

      Bob: "Like I said, with the magic of Gentoo..."

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    5. Re:Heard this one the other day... by MoOsEb0y · · Score: 1

      I use ReiserFS, Raid-5, Samba, and an Gensplash patched Gentoo kernel on my webserver. What's your point?

    6. Re:Heard this one the other day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't the hardened gentoo project be what you want then? if it crashes, it's not very secure...

    7. Re:Heard this one the other day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    8. Re:Heard this one the other day... by tigersha · · Score: 4, Funny

      Get real. I have an NT 4 machine which dates from 1995 in production and it never ever crashes. That machine has mucho better uptimes than any Linux servers I have. In fact, its my primary domain controller.

      And my dad still runs a machine with 286 Xenix on it. Still works fine. In production.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    9. Re:Heard this one the other day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      want to loose the ability

      "lose".

    10. Re:Heard this one the other day... by blahlemon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Was this supposed to be funny? Cause it was just stupid and rude.

      --
      It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
    11. Re:Heard this one the other day... by PastaLover · · Score: 1

      He probably meant Reiser4...

    12. Re:Heard this one the other day... by Piquan · · Score: 1

      Bob: "Like I said, with the magic of Gentoo..."

      Or the magic of lowest-bidder RAM.

    13. Re:Heard this one the other day... by SlightlyMadman · · Score: 2, Funny

      A windows box that hasn't been patched since 1995, you say? Wow, I'm impressed! Hey, could you give me the IP so I can, you know, check it out and ... um ... admire it?

      --

      Money I owe, money-iy-ay
    14. Re:Heard this one the other day... by prescot6 · · Score: 1

      A windows box that hasn't been patched since 1995, you say?

      Umm, he didn't say. He said he has an NT box from 1995 and it never crashes.

    15. Re:Heard this one the other day... by lateralus_1024 · · Score: 1

      "And my dad still runs a machine with 286 Xenix on it. Still works fine. In production"
      Oh, I get it now, your dad is the checkout clerk at Walmart

      --
      If you think /. comments are bad, check out Digg.
    16. Re:Heard this one the other day... by NoMercy · · Score: 1

      At a guess youve got a dodgy distribution of linux on there, my linux server hasn't crashed. Sure I've had to shut it down to clean the case, and replace parts that have worn out, reboot it to upgrade the kernel and power outages have taken it out.

      But it's rock solid.

    17. Re:Heard this one the other day... by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Actually, I do :)
      Maybe not '95 but it's some 600MHZ PIII from times when this stuff was HOT.
      The programs sometimes require "task manager" to kill them, but it has never crashed on me yet. And it controls the production :) And probably has better uptimes than my Linux box but just because I shut down my linux box for the night :)

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    18. Re:Heard this one the other day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NT4 wasn't released until 1996.

    19. Re:Heard this one the other day... by BLAG-blast · · Score: 1
      NT4 wasn't released until 1996.

      Probably the pre-release/beta, before they put the bugs in it.

      --
      M0571y H@rml355.
    20. Re:Heard this one the other day... by tcr · · Score: 1

      Must be switched off.

      --


      Information wants to be beer.
  12. I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 4, Funny

    heard once per interview

    1. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont get the humor here, is it that no one can ever become an expert?

    2. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No, I AM AN EXPERT IN C POUND.

      http://thedailywtf.com . The site is god damn hilarious.

    3. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by lobsterGun · · Score: 4, Funny

      One better.

      The resume says "six years C++". The meat pronounces it "six years Cee Tee Tee"

    4. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      No, you are pretty much straight on - it's funny because nobody can ever become an expert at C++.
      Even Kernighan once admitted 'Fuck if I know, I making this shit up as I go.'

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    5. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kernighan ?? what does he care about C++?
      Or was he looking over Bjarnes' shoulder?

    6. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by the+quick+brown+fox · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "I know them all... C, C+, C++"

      (true story)

    7. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Shulai · · Score: 1

      Sad when I went to an interview, and I honestly explained that while I was a proficient C programmer, but had no such thing as a 8-hours-per-day experience, as probably almost anybody in this town.

      I didn't get it. :-(

    8. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by Daleks · · Score: 3, Informative

      As a joke a friend of mine and I started pronouncing C# as "see pound." My friend had a job interview and he kept calling it "see pound," and only realized this a few hours after the interview. Oops? No job for him.

    9. Re:I AM AN EXPERT IN C++ by inmate · · Score: 1

      i had a guy tell me in an interview that he had learnt c+ in college. it came after c but before c++. i lmao...

      --
      --- blackironprison, where ignorance is bliss....
  13. Developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll
    I'm a serious [insert type here != "Apple Only"] developer and I use a mac because [insert RDF here].

    Cracks me up every time - esp when they associate flash & developer like that means something plausable. It's not just the great leaps in logic but the *need* to tell you.

  14. No one like klingons by cuteseal · · Score: 5, Funny
    Oldie but a goodie:

    Top 12 Things A Klingon Programmer Would Say

    12. Specifications are for the weak and timid!

    11. This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual processors if I am to do battle with this code!

    10. You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon.

    9. Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!

    8. What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake.

    7. Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 'arguments' -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.

    6. Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.

    5. I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth contest. They will not concern us again.

    4. A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!

    3. By filing this SPR you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to die!

    2. You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!

    1. Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship it, and let them flee like the dogs they are!

    1. Re:No one like klingons by fitsy · · Score: 1

      You forgot:
      - Today is a good day to die; let's release the code!

    2. Re:No one like klingons by gazz · · Score: 1

      Ghuy'cha', i must be a Klingon :/

      --
      it's the taking apart that counts
    3. Re:No one like klingons by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Damn, I wish they spun off a trek series mostly about a Klingon ship that has newly joined the federation. Two new grads from Earth get stationed there to witness all the "fun". Klingons versus the Federation beurocracy would be a gas.

  15. Re:Debug? Me? by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Funny

    He was right. HE didn't have to debug his programs. He had you for that.

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  16. TPS reports by St.+Arbirix · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've never missed a cover sheet on my TPS reports!

    --
    Direct away from face when opening.
    1. Re:TPS reports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we named a system TPS at work. I think every company must have a TPS system.

  17. This project will be on time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Thats a good one.

  18. Computer Game Shop by jebiester · · Score: 5, Funny

    The funniest boast I ever heard was a guy at a computer game shop. I was looking at the games and this guy started talking to me. After chatting about games for a bit, he started telling me about how he had obtained the full Windows 2000 source code, made some changes, and compiled a special version that played his games better.

    1. Re:Computer Game Shop by zrail · · Score: 1

      At least as fast as the Longhorn base requirements.

    2. Re:Computer Game Shop by hattmoward · · Score: 1
      #include <BigBrother.h>

      int main() {
      bsod();
      return 0; /* Shouldn't be here. -WG */
      }

      That can't be too hard, right? Right?

    3. Re:Computer Game Shop by karnal · · Score: 4, Funny

      That sounds similar to something my friends heard at our local computer shop.

      They were there, looking at the not-so-bargain basement prices (back when computer shows were all the rage, these guys didn't have squat on pricing...) and overheard a conversation:

      Customer: So is this video card pretty decent? It's kind of expensive...

      Sales Droid: Oh yea, that's the best one out there. That card doesn't work using triangles - it works on THE PIXEL level.

      Customer: Ahhh.

      Friends: Let's get out of here....

      --
      Karnal
    4. Re:Computer Game Shop by Edgewize · · Score: 1

      Sales Droid: Oh yea, that's the best one out there. That card doesn't work using triangles - it works on THE PIXEL level.

      See, that makes me smile because he's so obviously wrong, and yet so close to being right :) If that was a few years ago, then he was probably regurgitating the marketing buzzwords for pixel shaders. Per-pixel specular lighting! Shiny..

    5. Re:Computer Game Shop by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 4, Funny

      The guys at Best Buy are worse. They'll just spout off nonsense about anything if you ask them, trying to steer you toward the "premium" crap. Last time they tried to sell me the gold-plated USB cables, because "they give you better quality printouts from your printer." I wonder, do they get fed all that BS from the managers or do they make it up themselves?

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    6. Re:Computer Game Shop by nathanh · · Score: 1
      Sales Droid: Oh yea, that's the best one out there. That card doesn't work using triangles - it works on THE PIXEL level.

      Probably meant pixel-shading.

    7. Re:Computer Game Shop by mi_cuenta · · Score: 1

      Re: sig: Nice fractal!

      --
      /.
    8. Re:Computer Game Shop by Lars+-1 · · Score: 1

      Years ago, I bought a DAT with a then-not-so-common optical digital output. The shop had two optical cables, a cheap one and an expensive one from Sony with a neoprene or some thick plasik coating. I asked which one I should buy, and the seller told me I should go for the sony, because it had better shielding.

      I still wonder if he was kidding or not.

    9. Re:Computer Game Shop by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      Well, it DOES have better shielding from physical abuse.....but i doubt that that really matters that much.

    10. Re:Computer Game Shop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember when I was at futureshop a guy came wandering over from the car audio section and told me to make sure I bought an AGP video card. This was in 2003.

    11. Re:Computer Game Shop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone remember Tandy's computer stores? Computer City, I think they were called. Maybe they're still around, I don't know but the ones by me folded a couple years back.

      I went in and bought a nice (i.e., expensive) joystick there. Took it home, opened the box ... and I found a scuffed up, shit-beaten-out-of-it joystick that looked like it had been run through a milling machine, complete with broken springs and by God it rattled. I might add that the box had been thoroughly shrink-wrapped, which just goes to show how much that means.

      So I take this piece of twisted junk back to the store, and the "customer service" drone refuses to take it back. "You obviously abused it." He told me. "ABUSED IT", I cried, "I just bought it fifteen minutes ago! YOU SOLD IT TO ME!" "I'm sorry, sir." Well, at that point the manager hears the sound of a thoroughly PISSED OFF customer and wanders over to "help." I explain the situation, and I swear this guy tells me, "there's nothing we can do ... they come from the factory this way." That particular store went under less than a year later. I was surprised they held out even that long.

    12. Re:Computer Game Shop by m2pc · · Score: 1

      I went to Best Buy to purchase a digital camera and the "sales kid" said that the battery it comes with was junk and would only last 10 minutes. I bought it anyway and of course it lasted a lot longer than that.

      Another time I was helping a client purchase a laptop and another sales guy claimed that everytime you charge the battery it loses 3% of it's life! [so after 33 charges it would be useless?] (brackets mine)

    13. Re:Computer Game Shop by Anonymous+Luddite · · Score: 1


      Sadly, It would be faster than installing Gentoo....

    14. Re:Computer Game Shop by Zeb-9000 · · Score: 1

      Ok, Computer City didn't fold as a corporation, COMPUSA purchased CCity about 6 years ago. And we lost more money per month than any dot-com, our buyers found products from wholesalers months after Compaq and HP stopped shipping them to us. When the liqudator was in the second/third month, they pulled out overnight because the new product at other stores was cheaper and faster than what they were selling at 60% off original price.

    15. Re:Computer Game Shop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably meant 3% of its 'remaining' life.

  19. My favorite Resume blunder... by firebeaker · · Score: 4, Funny

    15 years Java experience... when Java's not that old. I've seen a number of cases like those on resumes, using technology for longer than it was around for.

    In the case of Java, no, they weren't working for Sun while it was being developed.

    --
    -beaker
    1. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by darkewolf · · Score: 1

      I have seen worse in job adverts. They were advertising for 5+ years in technologies that had (at that time) been around 3 less than 3 years.

      I think it was a case, though, of the boss asking the copywriter / secretary to chuck in the default advert with XYZ skill set. Oh well, they were rather embaressed when I rang up and pointed this out ;)

      --
      "That is not dead which can eternal lie...."
      Nimheil
    2. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah, but then maybe he was responding to one of those Job ads that is asking for 15+ years in Java experience!

      They are more common then you think, unfortunately.

    3. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by crazyphilman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, my old boss used to give me resumes to vet. I used to see stuff like "ten years .Net experience!" At first I was shocked, but then I got out my red pen and started annotating. I'd use very descriptive terms: "Bullshit", "He's lying, it hasn't existed that long", "Does this company even exist?" and so forth. Nobody cared. They ignored my comments, hired the low bid, and never asked me to look at resumes again.

      Since then I've realized that at some companies, resumes really ARE expected to be fiction, and they select the fiction they enjoy the most.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    4. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      They're fiction because you can't get a job unless you fictionalize them. I'm thinking of putting down Olympic Gold Medalist on my next resume.

      A coworker is out looking for another job. He had to lie on his resume about knowing C++ because many companies demand it. One company wanted C++ expertise, even though the position was for Linux device drivers.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    5. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by crazyphilman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've given up on programming for a private company. There are plenty of jobs in civil service, academia, large public institutions... Many of those won't be programming jobs in the future, but at least they pay the bills.

      The real last straw for me was the start of the recession, right around 2000, when I started seeing job offers that required several years experience in twenty technologies, some of which were mutually exclusive.

      Let alone the fact (the FACT) that no one is capable of getting five years meaningful experience in all those technologies at a single company.

      No, what really bothered me was this: Companies inflate their requirements for two primary reasons:

      1. They want to make sure that NOBODY will qualify for the job so they can justify hiring an H1-B to fill it, instead of an American, or a Brit, or whatever.

      2. They want to make sure that anyone they DO hire MUST have lied on the resume, so they can fire him whenever they want without paying unemployment benefits.

      This wasn't what was going on where I used to work; that manager just didn't care, and didn't want to listen to my complaints. But you can be pretty sure that a lot of companies work this way.

      Be careful with those resume fictions; they could bite you in the ass later, when you try to vest stock options or otherwise stand up for yourself.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    6. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Slightly O/T, but for interest: there have been a couple of public reports recently from people who investigate CVs for potential employers here in the UK. Currently, they all put the proportion of CVs containing a seriously misleading (inflated) statement at around 1/3, and rising.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by dJCL · · Score: 0, Redundant

      The worst part is, at my company of about 15 people, we had an ex-olympic vollyball team member and still have an ex-olympic fencer...

      --
      On Arrakis: early worm gets the bird. Magister mundi sum!
    8. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by 4of12 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since then I've realized that at some companies, resumes really ARE expected to be fiction, and they select the fiction they enjoy the most.

      You should get (Score: 6, Insightful) for that comment as today, November 2, 2004, millions of American voters go to the polls and select a candidate for the topmost job in the land based on exactly that same criterion.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    9. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by ManxStef · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." -- Douglas Adams

    10. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by gnu-user · · Score: 1

      Then there is the job ads that request such nonsense....

    11. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by who+what+why · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just a note from a Brit - we need H1Bs as well if we want to work in the states (and are perfectly capable of "taking an American's job". I did it myself!)

      Just kidding. I was hired in early 2000 - back when people seemed to be recruiting in every bar in Austin...

    12. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      This is the best one I've seen in a while

      I have hands on experience networking all of the Operating Systems mentioned above together into a single cohesive environment. Network creation from installation of hardware and cabling thou to day to day mangement are also among my skills.

      For those who didn't get it - thou may be a great way to say THOUGH, but you don't use it on a resume, and WTF is MANGEMENT (Mange-ment)?? Oh, yes, this doofus mean MANAGEMENT.

      This guy wouldn't get hired anywhere with this resume - too many spelling mistakes... remotly,Ojective,extensize,Netwoking,IMB PC,safty,equiptemnt and personell....
      This needs to go Here so other people than my collegues can say "which four year old wrote THAT!"

    13. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Heh heh... That's a good one. Ain't it the truth?

      Although... The two fictional stories are quite different. If titled, they might be:

      "A relatively boring story of four years in which nothing serious happens and everyone calms down" by Kerry.

      "We are at war with Eurasia -- we have always been at war with Eurasia" By Bush.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    14. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, how'd a brit get to Texas, of all places???

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    15. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      It's awful, isn't it? The worst thing is, if you've got a good resume, people assume you're lying, even though you're not. Makes you want to throw the whole thing in the river and become a mugger, specializing in HR flacks... ;)

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    16. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by who+what+why · · Score: 1

      By air, though Charles De Gaulle and Houston :-P (seriously - one of those dumb fly-though-five-cities-and-save deals)

      Austin's a very cool place. Even a euro-trash bum like me can see that. I fell in love with the place (but alas! Ye olde tech boom was over so fast!). I miss you Barton Springs, Alamo Draft House and Crown & Anchor.

    17. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You should get (Score: 6, Insightful) for that comment as today, November 2, 2004, millions of American voters go to the polls and select a candidate for the topmost job in the land based on exactly that same criterion.

      The funniest/saddest thing is that people are encouraged to vote based on those criterion.

    18. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by gammygator · · Score: 1

      I've seen it on the other end, too.
      The short version of my story is that employeers like to put an alphabet soup into their job requirements to make it look good without thinking about what they are really asking for.

      Example 1: I had aprospective employer who wanted Netware, MS AD, AIX, Linux and some programming language I can't remember on the same resume. I believe my interview was pretty much shot when they asked me what I knew about AIX and I replied "I know how to spell it."

      Example 2:

      In 2001, there was an employer who wanted someone who had been an NT 4 MCSE for over 7 years, that their NOS/Server experience was to be 100% MS (In a time when Netware was the most likely non-Unix NOS the person would be working with) the candidate needed a BS in Computer Science, and the person also needed something ridiculous like 10 years upper management experience.

      To make a long story longer, I wished the employer good luck and pointed out that their final candidate was most likely lying if he/she could meet the requirements. I also pointed out the glaring errors in their job requirements.

      My short list of their errors was that the prospective MCSE couldn't possibly meet the requirements for NT 4 (the tests weren't even available until something like '96 or '97... I've slept since then so go easy on me regarding dates... you get my point), that the candidates NOS experience was most likely Netware, and that the BS was probably so painfully outdated that only his/her gen ed classes could still count... Unless they wanted an MCSE who could code LISP.

      I noted that a couple of weeks later, the posting had been modified to be much more generic/realistic.

      --

      No Nyarlathotep, No Chaos
      Know Nyarlathotep, Know Chaos
    19. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Sayjack · · Score: 1

      Maybe he meant 10 base 2...

      --

      -- Good judgement comes with experience. -- Experience comes with bad judgement.

    20. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      I never had the chance to check out Austin, myself, although I thought San Antonio was kind of cool. I loved the Riverwalk.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    21. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by dJCL · · Score: 1

      I'm employed...

      --
      On Arrakis: early worm gets the bird. Magister mundi sum!
    22. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      And the intelligent person would not have replied that resume evidently crafted by am illiterate 4 year old was their own... they would have just corrected the shit that was wrong, moved on and not removed all doubt that they were an idiot.

    23. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I used to see stuff like "ten years .Net experience!"

      back in 2001 or so i saw a job posting that stated that qualified applicants would have 5+ years of .NET experience. so, it's not just the resumes that are screwy.
    24. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, some employers specifically advertise for people with that much experience, far be it from me to disappoint.

    25. Re:My favorite Resume blunder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since then I've realized that at some companies, resumes really ARE expected to be fiction, and they select the fiction they enjoy the most.

      Ahem... and their religions.

  20. My boasts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - I wrote 100,000 lines of production code when I was 23 years old.
    - I have a current product with over 1 million copies in distribution and I have 10 bug reports and no technical support department; not even a tech support telephone number. It has been out in the world for three years. All of the bugs are related to bugs in Microsoft Windows kernel.

    1. Re:My boasts by Dark+Nexus · · Score: 0

      Uh.... yes it does. kernel32.dll is, infact, the Windows kernel.

      --
      Dark Nexus
      "Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
    2. Re:My boasts by cookd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Strangely enought, it isn't.

      ntoskrnl.exe is.

      Kernel32.dll is the user-mode public interface to the basic kernel functionality.

      --
      Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
    3. Re:My boasts by jkirby · · Score: 1

      Hahaha. That is the best one yet. Where did you hear that one; from some retard in an interview?

      --
      Jamey Kirby
    4. Re:My boasts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and I have 10 bug reports and no technical support department; not even a tech support telephone number.

      Heh. The bug reports simply have no way of reaching you.

    5. Re:My boasts by HyperbolicParabaloid · · Score: 1

      good work!

      --


      -------------------------
      A person of moderate zeal
    6. Re:My boasts by stanmann · · Score: 1

      and I thought ntldr had something to do with the kernal.

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  21. Boast? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I've been posting on Slashdot since before there was moderation, or even user accounts. No man, it's true! I even have a low, three-digit UID, to prove it. I swear, man!"

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:Boast? by MacJedi · · Score: 2, Funny

      woot!

      --
      2^5
    2. Re:Boast? by JabberWokky · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Oh, gimmie a break - if so, then you know that they had a whole bunch of accounts that were deleted because they let their passwords get compromised. This is the second set of signups, and for those who waited to make sure that they had fixed the problem, we all have numbers at least above 10k.

      Besides, it's clear you don't have a three digit UID. Bagdad Bob says so.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    3. Re:Boast? by Sara+Chan · · Score: 1, Funny
      I've been posting on Slashdot since before there was moderation, or even user accounts.
      Bahh, I have been posting on Slashdot since before there were computers or even the alphabet. Heck, it's even on my resumé.
    4. Re: Boast? by Omniscient+Ferret · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? This? Or this? They suggested changing passwords, instead of deleting accounts.

    5. Re:Boast? by anewsome · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well your slashdot uid is still not as low as mine. I got my account on day 1. Where were you?

    6. Re:Boast? by erc · · Score: 1

      He was probably doing what I was doing - writing code - instead of wasting time on /. as you were obviously doing.

      --
      -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com PGP KeyID: 0x0BD32C9B What I'm up to: http://intuitives.mine.nu
    7. Re:Boast? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Interesting
      anewsome? awesome!

      I wasn't coding that day. I was setting up Samba for a source repository, and running nmap on my own segements...

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    8. Re:Boast? by Sludge · · Score: 1

      Size doesn't matter as much if you're catchy.

    9. Re:Boast? by Zachary+Kessin · · Score: 1

      My number is 1372. Which is definlty less than 10k

      --
      Erlang Developer and podcaster
    10. Re:Boast? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh yeah? Well I'm the original Anonymous Coward!

    11. Re:Boast? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      "I've been posting on Slashdot since before there was moderation, or even user accounts. No man, it's true! I even have a low, three-digit UID, to prove it. I swear, man!"

      Actually, I have, but I didn't get a user account until much later. This is my second account - the first (haruharaharu) went up to 50 karma, so I stopped as 666 posts and started this one.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    12. Re:Boast? by 6digitdotter · · Score: 1

      Agreed. (or ironic)

    13. Re: Boast? by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whoah! Follow the first link there. Then, follow the link from the story to the "hacked" page that was put up on slashdot and... it looks just like today's front page! I bet at the time, the idea of a front page full of ads and worthless stories seemed like a funny joke to the hackers. Little did they know...

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    14. Re:Boast? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      I remember your .sig from years back!

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    15. Re:Boast? by NickFitz · · Score: 1

      Well, I've been 5849 for years now. Anyway, it wouldn't exactly be disastrous if my /. password was compromised - it's not like you could get into my bank with it or anything... oh shit.

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
  22. Funny by students · · Score: 0

    What's with the "Princess Bride" reference?

    This one is worth printing and hanging on the wall.

  23. Windows 2000 admin wanted by Zoko+Siman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Must have at least 5 years expirence.

    1. Re:Windows 2000 admin wanted by stanmann · · Score: 1

      Odd, I've been using windows 2000 for over 5 years. And I don't think I'm the only one.

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
    2. Re:Windows 2000 admin wanted by yamla · · Score: 1

      Not the release version, you haven't. I'd throw out any resumes that started counting from when they first downloaded the beta version UNLESS they specifically noted this fact.

      --

      Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
  24. "Expert Programmer" by dynamic_cast · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I see that on resumes all the time. So I put them in front of a white board and ask them to show me the code to add an item to a singly linked list, using the language of their choice.

    1 out of 15 pass. It's pathetic.

    Can you pass this test? Post a link to your resume, we are hiring in the East Bay, California. C#.

    1. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Farq+Fenderson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Can you pass this test?

      Yes. But:

      > C#.

      You can't pay me enough.

    2. Re:"Expert Programmer" by spacecowboy420 · · Score: 0

      Pathetic? That isn't exactly trivial. I would wager you could do many lines of good code without knowing the *terminology* "singly linked list" - especially if you are self taught and never had the need to research it. I do, however believe a decent programmer will often have had to implement the logic without knowing what a "singly linked list" is.

      I think this is one of those "boasts".

      --
      ymmv
    3. Re:"Expert Programmer" by yasth · · Score: 1

      (cons item l)

      Does that count? ;-)

      --
      I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
    4. Re:"Expert Programmer" by yasth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In all honesty if you don't know the nomenclature, you might have a hard time working with a team. Also it is first semester CS stuff. If 1 in 15 can't pass it, then there is even more cheating going on then I thought.

      --
      I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
    5. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Beowulf_Boy · · Score: 1

      void insertnode(Node *first, int x, int y)
      {
      int z = 0;
      Node *start = first;

      while(z next;
      z++;

      }

      Node *addnode = (Node *)malloc(sizeof(Node));
      addnode->next = first->next;
      addnode->x = x;

      first->next = addnode;

      while(start->next != 0)
      {
      printf("X = %d\n", start->x);
      start = start->next;
      }
      }

      Copied and pasted from some program I made for my C101 class last year, I'd take the job and show you my resume, but I'm just a sophmore in Univesity, sorry.

    6. Re:"Expert Programmer" by weapon · · Score: 0

      I am a 1st year IT/Engineering student, i just did a course in scheme, one of the things we just did was linked lists, here is some of the code from the lectures (i can't post a link because it requires a login), but i can't program c# and i live in australia!

      (sory about the formating & indenting, blame slashdot). ;; ;; ;; COMP1502 Lecture 9, Demo 3 ;; Ordered Association Lists ;; ;; Assume that keys are numbers for ordering

      (define make-alist
      (lambda ()
      (list 'alist))) ;; alist selectors and predicates

      (define header?
      (lambda (alist)
      (eq? (car alist) 'alist)))

      (define curr-key caar)

      (define next-key caadr)

      (define insert!
      (lambda (key value alist)
      (cond ((and (or (header? alist)
      ( (curr-key alist) key))
      (or (null? (cdr alist))
      ( key (next-key alist))))
      (set-cdr! alist (cons (cons key value) (cdr alist))) 'ok)
      ((and (not (header? alist)) (= key (curr-key alist)))
      (set-cdr! (car alist) value))
      (else (insert! key value (cdr alist))))))

      (define assoc
      (lambda (key records)
      (cond ((null? records) 'no-match)
      ((equal? (caar records) key) (car records))
      (else (assoc key (cdr records))))))

      (define lookup
      (lambda (key alist)
      (let ((record (assoc key (cdr alist))))
      (if (eq? 'no-match record) 'no-match (cdr record))))) ;; (define x (make-alist)) ;; (insert! 5 'e x) ;; (insert! 2 'b x) ;; (insert! 4 'd x) ;; (insert! 7 'g x) ;; (lookup 6 x) ;; (lookup 5 x) ;; x

    7. Re:"Expert Programmer" by t--f-c · · Score: 1

      or more people than you realize are still applying for jobs to get into the tech industry and you are being outflanked by liberal arts majors who will take your job at half the pay and be trained in the process

    8. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Fizzl · · Score: 1
      I actually just visited an interview few months ago. I haven't been seriously programming in 2 years but still felt confident about my skills. Then, it came time to demostrate some simple things. Well, not the _simple_ but the ones someone should know who boasts 5+ years C and C++ experience:

      What is the most efficient way to check single linked list for self reference (pointing to a previous item)
      Hmm, I know this one... *Takes copious amounts of time to invent an ugly way*

      Define a function pointer
      Well, this is easy! *Doodles for minutes thinking was it the one way or another*

      Implement treesearch for undefined set of nodes. (Just walking the tree without doing anything)
      Ookey... Firs't well just create this complex 'node' class, then make dynamic memory management for walking the tree, making sure we wont run out of memory. The, let's see. See the amount of child of this node, allocate, push to treestack...
      Shit, the interviewer ofcourse wanted to see a simple recursive function!

      Well, I later emailed the interviewer, apologized for wasting his time and told him that they should not even consider me. I need some practise :/

    9. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Tablizer · · Score: 0, Troll

      Linked lists? Expert programmers use RDBMS. Only newbies use linked lists because they don't know how to use a database. Move up the abstraction scale, dude? Otherwise you will hire people who keep writing sorts, GUI frameworks, and OS's from scratch.

      (Estimation of this turning into an anti/pro-database battle: 35%)

    10. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Jahf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't have to cheat to forget naming.

      For many of the people I know, going to college for CS is about 2 things:

      1) Learning basic programmatic workflow and practices

      2) Being able to show the piece of paper

      Unfortunately for alot of people hiring, #2 is most important. For employers who I have -respected- #1 is the most important and they can recognize that with #1 and a creative thinking brain that any coder can quickly pick up new languages and technologies.

      And people who excel at creative programmatic thinking often are the types that remember concepts, not trivia (the idea of testing intelligence and not memory). Expecting a person to remember, in a high stress situation, the terminology you learned in school tests the trivia.

      Forgetting terminology (versus forgetting -theory-) doesn't mean that they cheated in school, it only means they remembered stuff differently. How many of us remember more than one or two geometry theorems even a few months after passing our last geometry test?

      It is sad, but there are a number of elitists out there who use tests like the one you are so proud of. Do you give any type of explanation if the interview-ee says "what do you mean by that?" or do you assume that they have failed at that point? If you assume failure at that point you are the problem, not them.

      If on the other hand you give a brief example and wait to see if they catch on, then you should be able to see who is truly good by how quickly they can code and/or how efficient that code is.

      A person doesn't need to know the terminology -before- they join a group to be useful to that group. They need to be able to quickly put your group's terminology into a working context and start expanding on it. Otherwise all you are doing is a form of secret handshake.

      This is one of the reasons that the original IQ tests were considered to be biased. They measured vocabulary knowledge as a prerequisite to concepts. Newer tests try to be language independent, recognizing that cognitive ability is more important.

      Or in shorter terms, I agree with the grandparent of this post, you made the kind of boast that the submitter was talking about.

      --
      It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
    11. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Fizzl · · Score: 1

      Right, forgot your original question :P

      (Assume we have established list with atleast one item, and the name of the 'next' pointer is 'next')



      item *p = list;
      item *new = (item *)malloc(sizeof(item));
      new->next = NULL;
      while(p->next != NULL)
      p = p->next;
      p->next = new;

      Will you relocate me from Finland to California? ;P

    12. Re:"Expert Programmer" by jrockway · · Score: 1

      > I'm just a sophmore [sic] in Univesity [sic]

      Maybe they _should_ require four years of English for CS majors :)

      --
      My other car is first.
    13. Re:"Expert Programmer" by norkakn · · Score: 2, Informative

      wow.. that is horrid code.

      want to learn verilog? the crap we get to do makes gotos look classy.

    14. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      (Estimation of this turning into an anti/pro-database battle: 35%)

      I would say 100%, because you already started the debate with your stupid (but very on topic) boast. The 35% is just an estimation of someone deciding to bite your troll.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    15. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Lenolium · · Score: 1

      Well, it will work, but you can't compile that in a C++ compiler. And since he is going for C#, I'm pretty sure that that one will fail also.

      In case you didn't spot it yourself, you can't use the word 'new' as a variable name in a C++ compiler without defining your code as extern'ed C code.

      Yes, I know I'm being pendantic, I've had to clean up too many a schema that used SQL reserved words for column names, so I'm picky nowdays.

    16. Re:"Expert Programmer" by BigBadDude · · Score: 1

      Oh my god, cant people even write a single list-insert without making a fool of themselves ?


      Item first = ... (first node in the list, could be null)

      // NOTE: thread-safe code (can you see it?)
      Item item = new Item();
      item->next = first;
      first = item;

    17. Re:"Expert Programmer" by dynamic_cast · · Score: 2, Informative

      I explain what it is if they say they don't know what I mean. I am not trying to be cruel. I just want to see if they can solve a SIMPLE problem.

      Most can't.

    18. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Fubar420 · · Score: 1

      typedef struct ll_s {
      int data;
      struct *ll_s next;
      } *ll_p;

      int insert (ll_s *cur, int data){
      if(cur == NULL)
      return -1;
      while(cur->next != null)
      cur = cur->next;
      cur->next = (ll_s *)malloc(sizeof(ll_s));
      cur->next->next = NULL;
      cur->next->data = data;
      return 0;
      }

      Barring obvious lack of a compiler, can I get my options now :-)?

      --
      -- (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    19. Re:"Expert Programmer" by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      I'm 15, self-taught, and I know what a singly linked list is. Since I assume I suck at C++/Programming in general, would it be fair to assume that most programmers wouldn't know everything that I know and more?

    20. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing "thread-safe" about that code, you frickin' moron. Your comment turns otherwise correct (pseudo) code into a steaming bit of crap.

      Judge not lest ye be judged.

    21. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sort the list, look for dups of course.. code is left as an excercise for the reader.. :)

    22. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      class CNode
      {
      public:
      virtual CNode* Add(int data) = 0;
      };
      class CHeadNode : public CNode
      {
      public:
      CHeadNode();
      virtual CNode* Add(int data);
      protected:
      CNode* list;
      };
      class CDataNode : public CNode
      {
      public:
      CDataNode(CNode* nextNode, int value);
      virtual CNode* Add(int value);
      protected:
      CNode* linkto;
      int data;
      };
      class CTailNode : public CNode
      {
      public:
      virtual CNode* Add(int data);
      };
      CHeadNode::CHeadNode()
      {
      list = new CTailNode;
      }
      CNode* CHeadNode::Add(CNode* node)
      {
      list = list->Add(data);
      return NULL;
      }
      CDataNode::CDataNode(CNode* nextnode)
      {
      linkto = nextnode;
      }
      Node* CDataNode::Add(int data)
      {
      linkto = linkto->Add(node);
      return this;
      }
      CNode* CTailNode::Add(int data)
      {
      newNode = new CDataNode(this, data);
      return newNode;
      }
      So do I pass? It doesn't do memory deallocation or anything, but, that isn't adding an item, is it?

      And no, I don't like templates ;)
    23. Re:"Expert Programmer" by lachlan76 · · Score: 1
      Sorry, posted AC. Slashdot has been doing that on the subdomains lately.

      class CNode
      {
      public:
      virtual CNode* Add(int data) = 0;
      };
      class CHeadNode : public CNode
      {
      public:
      CHeadNode();
      virtual CNode* Add(int data);
      protected:
      CNode* list;
      };
      class CDataNode : public CNode
      {
      public:
      CDataNode(CNode* nextNode, int value);
      virtual CNode* Add(int value);
      protected:
      CNode* linkto;
      int data;
      };
      class CTailNode : public CNode
      {
      public:
      virtual CNode* Add(int data);
      };
      CHeadNode::CHeadNode()
      {
      list = new CTailNode;
      }
      CNode* CHeadNode::Add(CNode* node)
      {
      list = list->Add(data);
      return NULL;
      }
      CDataNode::CDataNode(CNode* nextnode)
      {
      linkto = nextnode;
      }
      Node* CDataNode::Add(int data)
      {
      linkto = linkto->Add(node);
      return this;
      }
      CNode* CTailNode::Add(int data)
      {
      newNode = new CDataNode(this, data);
      return newNode;
      }
      So do I pass? It doesn't do memory deallocation or anything, but, that isn't adding an item, is it?
    24. Re:"Expert Programmer" by BigBadDude · · Score: 1

      thank you my friend for those nice and warm words :(

      this shows how dumb these "expert programmers" really are.

      The code is thread safe becuase if you interrupt it at ant location, the list is still VALID. and that without using any monitors or semaphores.

      read Rusty's guide about locks in the linux kernel and you will understand what i am talking about.

      of course, you didnt get a thing of what I just said, huh?

    25. Re:"Expert Programmer" by tsm_sf · · Score: 3, Funny

      push (@linky, "item");
      print "=p";

      "I'm serious, dammit!"

      000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
      000200 PROGRAM-ID. SeriousSinglyLinky.
      000300 AUTHOR. Some Sad Bastard.
      000400
      000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
      000600
      000700 CONFIGURATION SECTION.

      ok, that joke stopped being fun pretty quickly...

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    26. Re:"Expert Programmer" by tod_miller · · Score: 1

      LinkedList linkedList = new LinkedList();
      Foo foo = new Foo();
      linkedList.add(foo);

      I guess this would be a little more productive than the 1 page of code you saw elsewhere. Unless of course you are makinga bsuiness out of selling linkedlists...

      If you want to pay to re-invent the wheel, then go ahead.

      BTW I am not looking for a job, but feel free to use the above code.

      I used C# (asp.net) for 6 months solid, I mean 8-10 hours a day on a project, and to quote Bucky Katt, it spouts more shit than a prune taster with a stomach virus.

      --
      #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
    27. Re:"Expert Programmer" by scudderfish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      void addToList(Element *item,Element **head)
      {
      item->next = head;
      *head = item;
      }

      Or something like that. Adding the the head of a list is always quicker than iterating to the end :)

    28. Re:"Expert Programmer" by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      "What is the most efficient way to check single linked list for self reference (pointing to a previous item)"

      Hmm. Well most _memory_ efficient would be just to recursively go to the next node.

      If the program terminates, it doesn't have self references.

      Course, the time efficiency sucks..

    29. Re:"Expert Programmer" by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Sure can.

      fun elem list = elem::list;;

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    30. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know what you were trying to do. The problem is, you didn't do it right.

      CPU1: Item item2 = new Item();
      CPU0: Item item1 = new Item();
      CPU0: item1->next = first;
      CPU1: item2->next = first;
      CPU1: first = item2;
      CPU0: first = item1;

      So item2 has now gone missing. Nice thread safety, mister expert programmer.

      I'm not an amateur, my friend.

    31. Re:"Expert Programmer" by eztiger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Further reference for you, I've been through a CS degree and right now couldn't do the linked list insertion. Which is fairly pathetic :)

      I've done it before of course, and it would take me 10 minutes to come up to speed on the data structure then slightly longer to bodge it together in language of your choice.

      However being a net admin I rarely have to cobble together any more important than some single run through perl scripts and occasionally debug someone elses code, I rarely have to code anything substantial from scratch. So I'm a bit out of practice!

      I think whats more important here is the fact you're 15 and have taught yourself linked lists. You may not be the worlds best programmer right now (although that will certainly come with time and experience by the sounds of it) but you have the right initiative to pick something up by yourself and learn it. I don't know how long it took you to figure it out, but I get the impression probably not long. I'd far rather work with or for someone who was quick at picking up technologies and displayed some kind of iniative than someone who was rigidly stuck in one line of thinking.

      Stick at it, you're on the right track and in a few years time with some job experience under your belt you'll pick up a load of stuff...even if you don't realise it!

      Kev

    32. Re:"Expert Programmer" by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      Of course, it may be a bit hard to get a job without moving to India.

    33. Re:"Expert Programmer" by baadfood · · Score: 1

      and what if list is NULL - the empty list? This is c++ right? You want something like (ha, double pointers to manipulate a singly linked list :) // to find the end of a linked list for( item** p = *p; p = &(*p)->next); // to insert an item "n" into a sorted list. // assuming of course that the "item" node implements a next); n->next = *p; *p = n;

    34. Re:"Expert Programmer" by baadfood · · Score: 1
      crap - thats what I get for not previewing my post.

      and what if list is NULL - the empty list? This is c++ right? You want something like (ha, double pointers to manipulate a singly linked list :)

      // to find the end of a linked list
      for( item** p = *p; p = &(*p)->next);

      // to insert an item "n" into a sorted list.
      // assuming of course that the "item" node implements a comparison operator.
      for(item** p = *p && n < p; p = &(*p)->next);
      n->next = *p;
      *p = n;

    35. Re:"Expert Programmer" by DarkDust · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm 15, self-taught, and I know what a singly linked list is. Since I assume I suck at C++/Programming in general, would it be fair to assume that most programmers wouldn't know everything that I know and more?

      Well, I earn a living coding in the "semi"-embedded area and I tell you: most people that are allowed to code should never be let near a keyboard. Small example (this was found in the code of a GUI for an industrial robot !):

      bool odd = false;
      for(int s = myInteger; s > 0; s--)
      {
      if(!odd)
      {
      odd = true;
      }
      else
      {
      odd = false;
      }
      }

      if(odd)
      {
      foo ();
      }

      (damn, Slashdot ignores the indention... sorry)

      This short piece of code has such a high density of stupidity that I had to write it down... mind you, the guy who wrote this shit has a university degree in CS ! I got more examples of his code... and the sad thing is he's just the most obvious idiot. The other half a dozen people I have to work with in various other projects aren't that much better as well.

      You really learn to appreciate coders and hackers when having to work with such people. My experience is this: people who studied CS and got some degree are good at designing applications, but suck at implementing them. Self-taught programmers/coders/hackers mostly suck at designing but shine at implementing.

      Of course there are exceptions: my boss, whom I consider to be one of the brightest heads I've ever met, has studied CS in Germany and America and is excellent at both designing and implementing (though he sucks at documenting and has an ugly coding style ;-)

    36. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Gopal.V · · Score: 1

      I've seen a few expert programmers to realize I'm not good enough to hold a candle to them .. Open source does that to a student ... Sadly, humility and modesty don't get you a good job in the current market .

      I told the guys who interviewed me that I was about 7/10 in C programming. I was promptly rejected .. afterwards I learnt that they wanted a guy who "knew pointers" (*GAH*). Me .. who has been playing around with compilers , JITs and code portable to 10 or more CPUs .....

      Time to go back to my 300 $/month job, I guess ... self pity's not that valuable.
      --

    37. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      x.add(y);
      // Do I pass?
    38. Re:"Expert Programmer" by plupster · · Score: 0

      Pathetic? That isn't exactly trivial.

      Man, you have *a lot* of learning to do.

    39. Re:"Expert Programmer" by plupster · · Score: 0
      And in Haskell:

      insertNode :: a -> [a] -> Int -> [a]
      insertNode y (x:xs) pos
      | pos == 0 = y:(x:xs)
      | otherwise = x : insertNode y xs (pos-1)

      You've got to love functional programming!
    40. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct answer to tasks one and three: Use a library, because even simple code will contain bugs, so using proven software beats writing new code.

    41. Re:"Expert Programmer" by ElectricInkPen · · Score: 1

      Scheme-emon! I choose YOU! (cons item list)

      --
      Jaron _ at _ ElectricInkPen.com Penning the Web Electric
    42. Re:"Expert Programmer" by highwindarea · · Score: 1

      ;l is a list ;a is the thing to the list (push a b)

      --
      I think this internet thing sounds like a good idea
    43. Re:"Expert Programmer" by tigersha · · Score: 1

      The memory efficiency too since you are going to blow the stack.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    44. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ????
      That looks exactly like C.
      I thought C# looked a lot like Java.
      And the malloc?
      I thought that C# had mm built-in, so no need for mallocs.
      (I could be wrong about all of this, because I haven't done anything in C#.)

    45. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny
      > C#.

      You can't pay me enough.

      Nice boast. ;-)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    46. Re:"Expert Programmer" by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Sure: myList.add(anItem); Next.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    47. Re:"Expert Programmer" by battjt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Upon graduation, you need to know the fundimentals of CS. Part of what you need to know is the terminology. A singly linked list is not an advanced topic, neither is hastable, balanced binary tree, stack, heap, queue or anyother CS201 data structure.

      Yet, I've had to describe what a hashtable is and how to use it to multiple professional programers in a couple different companies.

      Data structes are the tools of CS. If a building contractor showed up the first day to work and couldn't hand me a framing hammer, I'd let him go too.

      Joe

      --
      Joe Batt Solid Design
    48. Re:"Expert Programmer" by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Hehe thanks for that: it re-assured me that I'm not the only one to have worked with monkeys.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    49. Re:"Expert Programmer" by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 3, Informative
      Expecting a person to remember, in a high stress situation, the terminology you learned in school tests the trivia.
      "singly-linked list" is not some obscure specialized computer term. Anyone who doesn't even know what a singly-linked list is has no business writing software (except maybe some financial software or web pages (if you consider HTML et al to be "software")).

      Here is my solution, written in LISP. Since the OP didn't specify where on the list to add the item, I will add it to the front.
      (push item-to-be-added my-list)
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
    50. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That returns a list with the new item on its head, but l still refers to the old list (without item). See this post for a Common LISP solution that modifies l.

    51. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Sorry about that; I should have used Preview.)
      That returns a list with the new item on its head, but l still refers to the old list (without item). See this post for a Common LISP solution that modifies l.

    52. Re:"Expert Programmer" by batemanm · · Score: 1
      Pathetic? That isn't exactly trivial.

      It is trivial since it is one of the simpliest data structures around which leads to queues, stacks etc and with slight modification gets you into graphs. It is less than ten lines of code in most languages that I know.

      I would wager you could do many lines of good code without knowing the *terminology* "singly linked list" - especially if you are self taught and never had the need to research it.

      Part of being a good programmer is knowing algorithms and datastrutures and where and how to apply them. If you don't know what a linked list is it is doubtful that you encountered much code.

      I do, however believe a decent programmer will often have had to implement the logic without knowing what a "singly linked list" is.

      I was once told 'If you're going to reinvent the wheel at least try to make it round on the first try'. Which implies knowing what already exists and how it works helps quite a lot in producing new things.

    53. Re:"Expert Programmer" by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1
      The code is thread safe becuase if you interrupt it at ant [sic] location, the list is still VALID
      The list may be valid in the sense that it is never in a state where it is unsafe to access, but your code can end up dropping items from the list if two or more threads are trying to update it at the same time.
      Here is how:
      Thread 1: Item item = new Item();
      Thread 1: item->next = first;
      Thread 1 is interrupted, and thread 2 runs.
      Thread 2: Item item = new Item();
      Thread 2: item->next = first;
      Thread 2: first = item;
      Thread 2 is interrupted, and thread 1 runs.
      Thread 1: first = item;
      At this point, thread 2's item is no longer on the list.
      In addition, if Item::~Item() checks next and does a recursive delete if it's non-null, then the list will be corrupted if Thread 2's item is deleted.
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
    54. Re:"Expert Programmer" by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Yeah problem with this kind of question is it depends on a lot of assumptions.

      I'd been programming 8 bit processors in small hand held devices (Psion Organiser II) where memory is at a huge premium: particularly as I'd been writing some device drivers where literally every byte is precious: every byte I use is one less for the application software and the user.

      So I went for an interview with another software shop and was told: "Write me an algorithm to reverse the order of bits in a byte". So I wrote one that did the job perfectly: rotating bytes into a register (ror) and then rotating them back out again the other way (rol).

      Problem was the solution he wanted involved using lookup tables and he stopped the interview there and then.

      I wrote a solution that was incredibly memory efficient. What he said he wanted (after I gave my solution!) was one that was fast (although I'd dispute a lookup to eternal memory is actually any faster than my register based solution). What he *actually* wanted of course was one like he'd have written.

      I was pissed off at the time but soon came to the conclusion it was a lucky escape.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    55. Re:"Expert Programmer" by DeltaHat · · Score: 1
      I've got to agree with this one. Contrary to what many programmers think, communications skills in programming are equally important, if not more important, than coding skills. Being able to speak the language means knowing the words for things. Especially things like data structures and algorithms. Now, to get me a job:
      Import java.util.*;
      LinkedList ll = new LinkedList();
      ll.add(item);
      As a side note, this snippet illustrates why Java should not be heavily relied upon for learning purposes. The libraries do everything for you so you never have to learn how things like linked lists and such work.
    56. Re:"Expert Programmer" by cbr2702 · · Score: 1

      (cons element list)

      --


      This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
    57. Re:"Expert Programmer" by volsung · · Score: 1

      It is C. The request was to add an item to a singly linked list in the language of your choice.

    58. Re:"Expert Programmer" by gus+goose · · Score: 1

      Yup... I was about to add this snippet myself... but then I realised that Java "LinkedLists" atr *doubly* linked (prev + next elements)... thus, you will fail the requirement.

      gus

      --
      .. if only.
    59. Re:"Expert Programmer" by usrusr · · Score: 1

      While i see your point i also see the other side:

      Ater you taught people how to reinvent wheels only the smartest and the dumbest will subsequently use the library functions where appropriate.

      A language like java could allow reinvent-the-wheel style assignments to be made around the interface of the "original" library function, this way bringing bringing a standard interface to the student's mind together with the "how does a linked list link" part, teaching them reusability in a very suggestive way.

      --
      [i have an opinion and i am not afraid to use it]
    60. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's wrong with a cubicle on goa beach? :)

    61. Re:"Expert Programmer" by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Why would you need to go through recursively? just do it iteratively.

    62. Re:"Expert Programmer" by yasth · · Score: 1

      Yeah I was mostly kidding. Though it is what I would have used but that is just due to the way scheme is programmed (i.e. modifiying variables is bad), and one should really use continuations etc. But that is an obscure style discusion.

      Really you don't need complicated tests. A better way might be to tell them that here is the API for something, have a comment that says it uses a singly linked list, tell people to modify every entry and see how many people use the getByIndex instead of pulling an iterator out. (Which is the real reason you have to know this stuff.)

      --
      I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
    63. Re:"Expert Programmer" by n3k5 · · Score: 1
      Why would you need to go through recursively?
      You wouldn't need to, but you suggested doing so, so it was to be expected that someone would point out that you're wrong.
      --
      but what do i know, i'm just a model.
    64. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the entire post jack ass. You must be repuiblican.

    65. Re:"Expert Programmer" by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      *looks*. Oh, so I did.
      I had just meant tail-recursive.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail _recursion

      Too much SML I'm afraid. I forget recursion generally means stack recursion.

    66. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For many of the people I know, going to college for CS is about 2 things:

      1) Learning basic programmatic workflow and practices


      Anyone capable of learning and studying at a university (or US college) level should know these things going into a CS level program. They're the basics, as you've said.

      If the basics become the exit requirements, then what entrance requirements do these so called colledges have?

      What about learning algorithmic design and analysis principles, discrete mathematics, multi-variate calculus and it's applications to problem modeling, statistical methods and applications, and so forth? You know... not just the basics, like data structures and logic gates?

      2) Being able to show the piece of paper

      That piece of paper is meaningless unless it demonstrates that you've actually learned something. If you haven't, using it to claim you have is just a con game.

      How many of us remember more than one or two geometry theorems even a few months after passing our last geometry test?

      Anyone who wants a job working with geometry theorems does, that's who.

      Put on your resume what you actually know, not what you could learn, given time, unless you label it that way. If you don't, you're just being dishonest.

      Don't say you can code in C if you've never even looked at the language: say you learn languages quickly.

      If I'm hiring you and want you to solve a C. problem in the first two weeks, but it will take you three weeks just to learn the language, you've failed me as an employee.

      If I ask you to maintain some old legacy code, can you read it fluently, remove the all unnecessary obfuscations without introducing bugs or eliminating optimizations, and make the whole thing fast and readable, without ever learning the syntax of the language? Probably not.

      The specifics really do matter. If I want my car fixed, I don't take it to an engineer. The engineer is not incompetant: he can deduce, upon a few days research and analysis, how the car was built, what things are wrong with the design, and how they should be fixed in the next model. The mechanic doesn't know any of that, but he knows what breaks on my model of car, and how to fix it quickly.

      It's important for a programmer to be able to think and design abstractly, like an engineer. It's equally important for a programmer to be able to quickly and correctly address a specific problem, like a mechanic. Failing to know elements of either theory or syntax makes for a poor programmer.
      --
      AC

    67. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could code a linked list when I was sixteen, I coded some graphs once for fun, and used a B/W tree. C++, self taught. Uphill both ways. Now (11 years later), I have to look at the documentation to push something into an array. It may have something to do with the biggest challenge I've had as an employee in the last 6 years is: "Could you make the logo on the webpage a little bigger, and add a blinking newsticker?"

    68. Re:"Expert Programmer" by pebs · · Score: 1

      I see that on resumes all the time. So I put them in front of a white board and ask them to show me the code to add an item to a singly linked list, using the language of their choice.
      1 out of 15 pass. It's pathetic.
      Can you pass this test? Post a link to your resume, we are hiring in the East Bay, California. C#.


      You want a C# programmer that remembers how to do linked-list operations? Why? Good luck sorting through all the Microsoft monkey-boys, especially if you're one of them yourself.

      --
      #!/
    69. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeating what I said 4 hours ago makes you look a bit smarter if people don't read what I wrote. Which I guess is a pretty good bet because your post is 2 while mine 0.

    70. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      The "malloc()" should have clued you in that he was writing in C.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    71. Re:"Expert Programmer" by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Going completely off-topic, how do you get the indentation to work on slashdot?

    72. Re:"Expert Programmer" by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      Or at least a typing class.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    73. Re:"Expert Programmer" by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Looks fine (as C) to me, although it would be faster to put your new item on the front of the list.

      item *p = list;
      item *new = (item *)malloc(sizeof(item));
      new->next = p;
      p = new;

      And then return p rather than new.

    74. Re:"Expert Programmer" by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      And then return p rather than new.

      I mean just return p. It's late. Brain not working.

    75. Re:"Expert Programmer" by chochos · · Score: 1

      Dude, you managed to offend the Mono team, the KDE and GNOME team, and everyone involved in Linux kernel development, all in one post!

    76. Re:"Expert Programmer" by oo_waratah · · Score: 1

      Hey I did a link list in cobol and GPL'd the result.

      Funny Cobol programmers were not interested. Go figure.

    77. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Dude, you managed to offend the Mono team, the KDE and GNOME team, and everyone involved in Linux kernel development, all in one post!

      Hey, databases are the wave of the future. At first they were only used by big companies, but they are trickling down. I am just the messenger.

    78. Re:"Expert Programmer" by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1

      I download all slashdot articles at once, then read through them.
      This can take up to 12 hours or more.
      At the time that I made my reply, my copy of the page did not have your reply on it.
      So I did not repeat what you wrote (and you wrote it; you didn't say it); I simply happened to write something similar at a later time.

      The reason that your post is at 0 is because you posted as an Anonymous coward.
      The reason that my post is at 2 is because I used my kharma bonus.
      Neither of our posts has been moderated (at this time).

      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
    79. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Farq+Fenderson · · Score: 1

      Haha, good show.

    80. Re:"Expert Programmer" by BRSloth · · Score: 1
      You are calling that guy idiot? What abou the guy who did this with JavaScript? (I saw it)
      function button_callback(par1, par2, par3, par4)
      {
      var all_par;
      all_par = par1 + ";" + par2 + ";" + par3 + ";" + par4;
      process_par(all_par)
      }

      function process_par(par)
      {
      var breaking;
      var count;

      breaking = par.split(";");

      for(count = 0; cont < 4; ++count) {
      switch(count) {
      case 0: par1 = breaking[count]; break;
      case 1: par2 = breaking[count]; break;
      case 2: par3 = breaking[count]; break;
      case 3: par4 = breaking[count]; break;
      }
      }
      }
      And I had beatified the code here. The guy seemed to have a broken space (or a terrible fear of putting spaces inside the code).
    81. Re:"Expert Programmer" by prescot6 · · Score: 1

      I think you're missing the point of the comment. If, on your resume, you state that you are an "expert programmer" then you should probably be able to handle adding an item to a singly linked list in the language of your choice.

      If you can't spit out code, then maybe you should use terminology more like "strong understanding of programming concepts" rather than "expert programmer".

    82. Re:"Expert Programmer" by dynamic_cast · · Score: 1

      If someone doesn't understand the term, I will explain to them what it is. In some cases they then go on to show me how to do it, others can not.

      It is not a test to see if they know the terms. It is a test to see how they solve a problem. That is what our whole interview process is about, seeing if the applicant can solve problems.

      I actually don't give a rats ass if they know c#, any good problem solver can learn that.

    83. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't add an item to an empty list?

      YOU'RE FIRED!!

      You don't check the result of malloc?

      You already work for MicroSoft!

    84. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, is there a reason why you feel compelled to add the item to the *end* of the list? You could add it at the beginning in constant time, and save yourself an O(n) while loop.

      YOU'RE FIRED! - The Donald

    85. Re:"Expert Programmer" by f()rK()_Bomb · · Score: 1

      Combo box that says HTML Formatted next to the preview button.
      Change it to Code

      --
      "The space elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing." - Arthur C. Clarke ~1980
    86. Re:"Expert Programmer" by russotto · · Score: 1
      Adding an item to a singly-linked list in a thread-safe way is pretty easy, but requires an extra primitive:
      (in some C-like language)

      Item item = new Item();
      do {
      item->next = first;
      }
      while(!compare_and_swap(first, item->next, item));

      Where compare_and_swap atomically compares the first argument to the second argument and if they are equal, sets the first argument equal to the third and returns nonzero. If they are not equal, returns zero.

      (compare_and_swap is not a function call)

    87. Re:"Expert Programmer" by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      doh! Thanks. Had that set to HTML for so long I'd forgotten what the other options were.

    88. Re:"Expert Programmer" by russotto · · Score: 1

      Don't be discouraged -- find yourself a copy of some Microsoft source code. Or read some of their object code (but do it in a Faraday cage to avoid the DMCA warriors). By the time you're done spotting a good deal of the ugliness, your humility and modesty will have given way to a healthy egotism.

    89. Re:"Expert Programmer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you're only 15, so there's still time for you to choose a real career and keep the bit-twiddling as a hobby. Hey, I'm 33, I've worked in electronics, largely self-taught, and I'm giving up on electronics as employment, the average age before burn out is 40, then no one will hire you anymore. So I'm certainly not going to university for the next 5-6 years to get a bachelor's so I can compete against 21 year olds when I'm 39ish!!
      Lesson: Electronics was a hobby, a passion, a job. I never took the educational path to become an engineer (no bachelor's, I hit the ground running after college to make money! No mummy and daddy to freeload off until I'm 35!) but I've done engineering work. The passion goes away as soon as what you do is directed by someone else, as opposed to a free-flowing experience.
      Now, I do something that's related to electronics at work, and none at home.
      I cook for fun now. Much more fun!

    90. Re:"Expert Programmer" by itwerx · · Score: 1

      Sort the list, look for dups of course.. code is left as an excercise for the reader.. :)

      This is so true! I have to laugh when people moan and bitch about the "ancient" languages that are used in university courses. Few understand that it's the concepts that are the key.
      Syntax can always be looked up but the ideas/concepts behind the code need to be understood first.

    91. Re:"Expert Programmer" by BigBadDude · · Score: 1

      dear mr coward:
      of course you are an amateur programmer. not only that, you are not a very nice person either so i cant even think of you as an "project manager" since you are not a team player.

      I said the list is VALID. if you read the list from seperate places but write to it from a single thread you will be fine. This is the way, for example, the linux kernel worked before 2.3.

      now, if you want your list to also allow parallell writes, yes you need to lock the list first. but this is like BASIC programming stuff, you shoulnt be so porud for pointing it out if you were not an amateur.

      (from http://www.kernelnewbies.org/documents/kdoc/kernel -locking/lock-avoidance-rw.html)

      Avoiding Locks: Read And Write Ordering

      Sometimes it is possible to avoid locking. Consider the following case from the 2.2 firewall code, which inserted an element into a single linked list in user context:

      new->next = i->next;
      i->next = new;

      Here the author (Alan Cox, who knows what he's doing) assumes that the pointer assignments are atomic. This is important, because networking packets would traverse this list on bottom halves without a lock. Depending on their exact timing, they would either see the new element in the list with a valid next pointer, or it would not be in the list yet. A lock is still required against other CPUs inserting or deleting from the list, of course.

      Of course, the writes must be in this order, otherwise the new element appears in the list with an invalid next pointer, and any other CPU iterating at the wrong time will jump through it into garbage.
      [...]


    92. Re:"Expert Programmer" by voodoo1man · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is I can't tell whether you're trolling (in which case you certainly got a laugh out of me!) or just contributing to the examples of really shitty code (in which case congratulations; I think you've won, and this was no easy task (I still can't believe some of the code posted elsewhere in the thread is actually real)).

      --

      In the great CONS chain of life, you can either be the CAR or be in the CDR.

    93. Re:"Expert Programmer" by weapon · · Score: 0

      No i actualy did a cut/paste from some examples from a lecture! except i had to remove all the intentation for one of the slashdot filters (i think it was whitespace)

  25. How about Vulcan Programmers? by BottleCup · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Vulcan computer science directory has determined that the existence of programming bugs is impossible.

    1. Re:How about Vulcan Programmers? by gowen · · Score: 2, Funny

      Vulcan computer scientists are the only plausible explanation for the design of Ada95.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  26. It's obvious by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    It's obvious: I'm a gamer, and I use Linux on the desktop. Saw some clown on the web claiming that crap.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    1. Re:It's obvious by phaze3000 · · Score: 1
      I'm a gamer, and I use Linux on the desktop.

      Admittedly, all the games I play are on PS2/XBOX/Gamecube/Dreamcast.

      --
      Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
  27. 24/7 support by jerde · · Score: 2, Funny

    I overheard a salesdroid touting that their support line offered 24/7 support, Monday-Friday 8am to 8pm.

    --
    INsigNIFICANT
  28. My uptime is.... by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I often hear Linux & Unix admins talking about their tremendous uptime. I regard these people as a little unwise and arrogant, more concerned with meaningless bragging numbers instead of focusing on the stability of the system.

    Lately, I inherited [1] a surviving dotcom [2] with 20 unix computers. The

    Of course, 2 months after the previous Unix admin quits, power goes out on a couple power strips at the AT&T Datacenter [3] and I need to restart the computers.

    The OS comes up fine, but the init scripts for the Apache, Java App server, and misc. servers were all hosed, and I had to investigate each one and restart all of the important services on all machines. This turned a 5 minute downtime into a 2 hour downtime... AT 3 IN THE FUCKING MORNING!

    Screw your uptime, test your startup scripts. Distaster recovery is more important.

    [1] I was hired, then the parent company laid a bunch of people off. Fuck me!

    [2] Not surviving any more! Fuck me!

    [3] Top of the line reliability, yeah right.

    1. Re:My uptime is.... by oo_waratah · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can restart the service and still keep your uptime and provide the testing you require. However it is true that a complete down and up would be good to do when everyone is prepared to sort out the mess and the least impact on your business. Warm swaps would be a good idea if it is that critical.

    2. Re:My uptime is.... by cthugha · · Score: 1

      More importantly, have all services been restarted to take account of upgrades to libraries and other packages on which they depend? It's all very well having a package management system that'll restart a service when the package that provides that service is upgraded, but what about when a security hole in something important (like libc) is patched and you duly upgrade, but all your daemons and services are still using the old library image they were linked against when the service was last started?

    3. Re:My uptime is.... by bondjamesbond · · Score: 1

      Say!... you weren't with Digital Brandcasting, were you??

    4. Re:My uptime is.... by zrq · · Score: 1

      I was wondering about this ....
      Could someone use uptime figures to identify vulnerable machines ?
      If a new security problem is published and a patch is issued, then if someone wanted to find vulnerable machines could they use the netcraft uptime stats to look for hosts that hadn't been restarted since the patch was released.

    5. Re:My uptime is.... by bzImage8 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You spent 2 hours to bring up the system just because it has no init scripts (rc2.d or /etc/init.d).. ?? You are in no way a experienced Unix/Linux Admin. Yes even with 20 servers a good Admin can bring those machines in 20 minutes max..

      --
      Unix its simple, but sometimes it takes a geniuos to understand the simplicity -- Dennis Ritchie
    6. Re:My uptime is.... by winwar · · Score: 1

      "Of course, 2 months after the previous Unix admin quits, power goes out on a couple power strips at the AT&T Datacenter [3] and I need to restart the computers."

      "[3] Top of the line reliability, yeah right."

      Sounds like the Unix systems were very reliable. No system operates well without electricity. A sudden power loss can FUBAR most things....

      And why did the power fail at an AT&T Datacenter? I doubt the power "just" went out on the power strips, although it is possible. Sounds like someone unplugged them....

    7. Re:My uptime is.... by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 1

      A sudden power loss can FUBAR most things....

      Unix itself is pretty reliable. I was actually referring to the reliability at the Datacenter. As far as we can tell, the powerstrip was flakey--- several other machines on the same strip had problems. We replaced the strips, and no problems since then (but the Database machine died when they were testing the powerstrips to the OTHER computers... arg! Test one thing something else breaks...)

    8. Re:My uptime is.... by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 1

      init scripts (rc2.d or /etc/init.d)

      Thank you Mr. Know-it-all ... I think we know where the startup scripts live. What was your purpose in telling us this piece of trivia? Showing off your knowledge, are you?

      Yes even with 20 servers a good Admin can bring those machines in 20 minutes max..

      Let me guess, you work in sales. It's clear you misunderstand the nature of the problem, and you exagurate your ability to fix the problem to make you look macho. I'd hate to work with your pompous ass...

      It wasn't just a matter of writing up some init scripts and you're done. It takes a bit of time to investigate the problem. This server was last rebooted 18 months ago and pretty much all of the processes have changed since then, the documentation was wrong and several of the processes required a number of funky tweaks.

    9. Re:My uptime is.... by WGR · · Score: 1
      It has been done. I had to do a post mortem on a SGI web server system that had been hacked becuase it had no patches for some well-know holes. It had an extremely long Netcraft uptime because it had been created several years before, then only the web pages updated since it was in a telecom server centre with no sysdamins.

      When I found some session logs I found some IRC comments about looking at Netcraft for long running servers indicating that they hadn't been booted since before patches for exploits had been published.

      Perfect way to search for vulnerable machines.

  29. said in a meeting by heliocentric · · Score: 3, Funny

    Higher up boss was complaining why the project wasn't being done the wau he just suddenly came up with.

    Low-level boss, who had fought to do it that way for months and was shot down by this higher up boss only to do it the current way, says, "I can't beging to think about doing it the right way until I finish doing it the wrong way... poorly."

    --
    Wheeeee
  30. trust me by oo_waratah · · Score: 1

    Just trust me it will work.

    Well most of the time I am right anyway :-)

  31. next version will fix the bugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that's what we are always told

  32. It'll be done on time! by Banner · · Score: 3, Funny

    2) We don't need to test it!
    3) Requirements? What are those?
    4) We're a level 5 organization!
    5) We'll save money using window's Outlook
    6) Extreme Programming
    7) Cleanroom.

    1. Re:It'll be done on time! by DZign · · Score: 1

      8. paperless office

    2. Re:It'll be done on time! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      8) I don't need a real girlfriend.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  33. Massive lines of code reductions by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I guy who just took an SQL intro class blurted out in the middle of a meeting, "Can't you take your system and rewrite it all in [just] SQL so that it is only a few lines?"

    And then another time someone claimed that they could make something 1/2 the original code size by rewriting it in Lisp. I gave them a code example to try it on, but they made some vague excuses and changed the subject.

    Somewhat related, the C2 wiki has an interesting "alarm-bell phrases" list to help detect when big claims are about to be stated:

    http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?AlarmBellPhrases

  34. Re:Debug? Me? by Brandybuck · · Score: 5, Funny

    One manager at my work boasted that his group's code didn't have any bugs in it. Whenever a bug was assigned to his group, he would reassign it elsewhere. Seriously! When challenged on it he would get very insulted.

    Then one day a bug he reassigned got fixed. The root cause was code that the manager had written back in that distant two week period when he actually touched code. Rather than tell him who wrote it, the other managers talked about the "really lame" coding error. We he got all righteous about the bug as well, they told him he wrote it.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  35. I am not a number by 790396 · · Score: 0

    Oh wait, indeed I am.

    1. Re:I am not a number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell did you do that (make your name the same as your UID)? How did you know in advance what your UID would be?

    2. Re:I am not a number by pcmills · · Score: 1

      I have seen several users do this recently. I wonder if the user accounts created around this time are similar until he got it right.

      --
      Ask Slashdot - google for stupid people.
    3. Re:I am not a number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume it goes something like this:

      Create account. Note number. Increment number. Create account with this number. Rinse and repeat until hair is smooth and silky.

  36. Pentium 8 by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    I once heard a guy in an electronics shop talk to a customer about how he was already recieving training about the Pentium 8 processor. This was when the first Pentium CPU's were just available!

    Had a pretty hard time not laughing in this guy's face, though I probably should have done so in hindsight.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  37. im arrogant! by biryokumaru · · Score: 0

    ive been coding since i was eight! when i was 12, i wrote a compiler using ms debug!

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
  38. a looooong day (was Re:My Roommate) by ion++ · · Score: 5, Funny
    Yeah, I can write a raytracer in a single day. /He did. It was a looooong day.


    Of course it was a long day. A day is 86400 seconds, and a short can only hold 65536. Duh.
  39. cwd oh my by fastduke · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was told that I had to set up the server to include the cwd in the path so that students didn't have to always type ./a.out

    Later I was asked if I hade done it and the conversation went something like this:

    boss: did you get that done?
    me: Yep, students group is all set up.
    boss: only the students?
    me: Well I figured the staff should know to change their own path.

    --
    Fastduke :0)
    1. Re:cwd oh my by T-Ranger · · Score: 4, Funny

      That reminds me of a story my brother tells. He works as a software developer in a branch office; prety much evertone in his office is either a programmer, project manager, tech support of technical sales people. Not all of them geeks, but all heavy computer users.

      The company hired on a new business manager/director of sales (whatever) for this office, good business/sales experience, but not technical sales.

      Weekly meeting:

      Boss: Oh yes. Head office has deployed the intranet. You all must change your homepage to our internal website. Herman (local network admin) is away, but Bob can help you change your homepage if you need assistance.
      Andrew: On the other hand, you are working at a software developement company; if you cant change your home page, you should pack up and go home now.
      Boss: *deer in the headlights look*

    2. Re:cwd oh my by Watcher · · Score: 2, Funny

      I always love the "the company intranet website must be your home page" policy. They did this at my last company, and it had three, simultanious, results:
      1) Everyone who couldn't change their homepage because of permissions bitched about having the intranet site as their homepage because it was heavy with activex controls and bogged their system down for 30 seconds before they could even look at the company site, let alone get out on the internet (which was locked down heavily with a websense server that was beloved by all).

      2) All of us in development promptly hacked up registry files to reset the homepage back to something that wasn't annoying and didn't take 30 seconds to load. We had actual work to do, damn it, and after a brief flurry of activity on the site in the first week, it was rarely updated more than once a quarter. Some company news section, huh?

      3) IS began to bitch and complain about how so much internal bandwidth was being wasted on people going to the site and how they obviously must not be doing any real work if they're opening their browsers so much. Uh, all of our products were either browser based activex for the intranet products, or web based. Brilliant.

      It worked well.

  40. To be fair... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you didn't count the parentheses he might be right.

    1. Re:To be fair... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      if you didn't count the parentheses he might be right.

      In theory, one could write a language that was pure parentheses, and if we applied your rule, it would be zero lines of code, which nothing could beat. (For an example of how such a language might look, read about the "Brainfuck" experimental language.)

      How much to count different language items can get sticky.

  41. When I was in college.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There was a ten year old in my intro to CSE class who'd already written an ada compiler. That'll kill your self-esteem.

    1. Re:When I was in college.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So what, the kid is a genius. He will probably grow up, with zero connections to the outside world and either be stuck working away in a lab for the rest of his life. Or he'll kill himself at 25 for depression.

    2. Re:When I was in college.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Impossible - Ada is a *huge* language - kid might've downloaded GNAT and compiled it, but write it? No way

  42. Rob Klausidaughton by DJCF · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... I hacked the school network once. It's not exactly hard. I used a website I wrote in C++. My monitor's way faster than yours and my CPU's made my GeForce.

  43. The kid who knew "everything". by Old.UNIX.Nut · · Score: 2, Funny

    I had a 13 year old kid tell me "I know everything about computers". I grinned, and sold him a modem for his mom's computer.

  44. My Boss! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I work for a Tin-Pot Telco which looks after a mere 100,000 telephone lines and a few thousand DSL customers.

    My Boss is quoted to have said: "What, Why are http://www.cisco.com messing us around? We are their BIGGEST customer!"

    You can imagine the looks that such a comment would stir up.

  45. Error Handling? by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 1

    Me: Were are your error handlers? You didn't write a single one...

    He: My programs are error free! I don't need no error handler.

    Me: *baffled*

    1. Re:Error Handling? by Phleg · · Score: 1

      The poor fool! Everyone knows that VB6 can't open files!

      --
      No comment.
  46. itanium and Windows by turgid · · Score: 2, Funny

    itanium will kill the RISC server market.
    itanium was the first mass-market 64-bit processor.
    64-bit is not required on the desktop.
    People are waiting for itanium before they move to 64-bit.
    itanium is the fastest processor in the world.
    itanium is the industry standard 64-bit architecture.
    itanium is an open standard. Other 64-bit processors are proprietary.
    Next year, itanium will be the biggest-selling 64-bit processor.
    Windows NT is more advanced than UNIX.
    Linux can't do everything Windows can.
    Windows NT will kill UNIX.
    Windows is faster than Linux.
    Next year, everyone will be running itanium servers running 64-bit Windows.
    Windows NT is portable.

    1. Re:itanium and Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you're joking, but Windows NT at least ran on the MIPS, PPC, and Alpha as well as x86.

    2. Re:itanium and Windows by turgid · · Score: 1
      I know you're joking, but Windows NT at least ran on the MIPS, PPC, and Alpha as well as x86.

      I knew someone would bring that up. :-)

      Portability went away with Windows NT 4.0. Prior to that, NT 3.51 had a Harware Abstraction Layer (HAL) which provided a nice interface between the device drivers and other hardware-dependent parts of the OS and the hardware-independent parts of the OS. Unfortunately, this was very slow on the systems of the day. For NT 4.0, M$ decided to break this to improve performance.

      It's also worthy to note that, although MIPS and Alpha were 64-bit processors, NT was purely 32-bit on those platforms. There was no 64-bit NT until fairly recently.

    3. Re:itanium and Windows by BJH · · Score: 1

      Er... certainly for the Alpha, there existed versions of Windows right up to a 2000 pre-release.

    4. Re:itanium and Windows by turgid · · Score: 1
      Er... certainly for the Alpha, there existed versions of Windows right up to a 2000 pre-release.

      Was there indeed? I stand corrected. Some people really must be gluttons for punishment. I wonder if FX!32 ran all the viruses correctly?

    5. Re:itanium and Windows by ShawnD · · Score: 1

      From a Windows NT4.0 CD (OEM Version):
      Disc contains code to run on Windows NT-compatible 486, Pentium, MIPS R4x00, Alpha, PowerpC and Pentium PRO systems.

      The SP3 CD drops support for all but x86 and Alpha.

  47. Best deals: It's funny. Laugh. by makapuf · · Score: 1

    ... please.

  48. Error Handling? by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Me (code reviewing): Were are your error handlers? You didn't write any...

    He: My programs don't have errors. I don't need no error handlers...

    Additional note: He wrote a VB6 app that had to do alot of file access

  49. Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 0

    > So I put them in front of a white board and ask
    > them to show me the code to add an item to a
    > singly linked list, using the language of their choice.

    Why would anyone ever use a linked list? They cause memory fragmentation, screw up your cache, add two pointers of overhead per item (quite possibly in a different memory location from the data), are slow to access thanks to all that dereferencing, and require ugly special casing code for the head (unless you are smart or have read Knuth and remember the circular list trick). Using an array is almost always a better solution, so you better profile and make damn sure the linked list is faster before you even consider putting it in your code.

    > Can you pass this test? Post a link to your resume,
    > we are hiring in the East Bay, California. C#.

    So you are a company that has C# code with linked lists in it? And it looks like you do it MANUALLY EVERY TIME! (or else why ask the question?) And you want my resume? Not bloody likely!

    1. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone ever use a linked list?

      I use them all the time.

      They cause memory fragmentation, screw up your cache

      Certainly a disadvantage. But there are ways around memory fragmentation.

      dd two pointers of overhead per item (quite possibly in a different memory location from the data),

      If the link pointer is part of the data structure, then it's only one extra pointer in the same memory location as the data. If you're using inheritence, an array will need pointers as well.

      The main problem with an array is that it is not dynamic. If you wantto remove an item from the middle, you have to copy all the other data backwards, which is a lot slower than simply removing a link. An arbitrary number of items can be added to the end of it which you cannot do with an array. You could use a vector perhaps, but you'll stil have gaps if you delete an item from the middle.

    2. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by thalakan · · Score: 1

      > Why would anyone ever use a linked list?

      me@mybox:/usr/src/linux$ find . | xargs grep -Is LIST_HEAD | wc -l
      720

      --
      -- thalakan
    3. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      Using an array is almost always a better solution,
      Cool. Now tell me, how big should my array be?
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    4. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it doesn't mean that they use it.

      it just means that AN "EXPERT PROGRAMMER" should be able to do it, would you hire a so called expert programmer if he couldn't do a linked list?

      besides.. arrays are neat and all.. if you're not adding stuff afterwards(built in stuff that's essentially linked lists and whatnot count as linked lists too..).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > Now tell me, how big should my array be?

      You can use paged allocation to grow the array, as you add the items. If you use realloc, there will be no copying involved, as it will simply extend your allocated block. See vector template implementation in http://sourceforge.net/projects/ustl for an example.

    6. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now do that in two lines on the whiteboard for a job interview.

      The point is not that the company uses linked lists, but that a guy who cannot figure out how to add an object to a linked list won't even understand the *concept* of page allocation.

    7. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > But there are ways around memory fragmentation.

      Like what?

      > If the link pointer is part of the data structure, then
      > it's only one extra pointer in the same memory location as the data. ... plus the linking code that you would have to implement all over again. You could make the list template require a 'next' member in the data type, but that might not be acceptable.

      > The main problem with an array is that it is not dynamic.
      > If you wantto remove an item from the middle,
      > you have to copy all the other data backwards

      Yes, that is true. However, most types of data do not require random element removal very often. If you need to add and remove elements in completely random locations and it is your performance bottleneck, then I would concede that you would be better off with a linked list. I would also suggest that you rethink your design. In most cases, however, addition and removal happen much less often than reading, and optimizing for reading will make your code faster. Try it and profile. You might be surprized just how little insert/remove matters.

      > An arbitrary number of items can be added to the
      > end of it which you cannot do with an array.

      You can do paged allocation, which will create less memory fragmentation than a linked list. STL does that for its vector template. If you keep reusing your array for lists of similar length, you gain two more advantages: no memory allocation at all for the steady state condition and very good cache utilization. These are things that are very important if you use this data in a tight loop and you will never be able to get the same performance with a linked list.

    8. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Like what?

      Allocate a large chunk of memory, and then allocate link structures from that. Create a linked list of unused structures. When you delete one, add it to the start of the unused list.

      I would also suggest that you rethink your design. In most cases, however, addition and removal happen much less often than reading, and optimizing for reading will make your code faster. Try it and profile. You might be surprized just how little insert/remove matters.

      But you're assuming that speed matters in this section. The code I'm using a linked list for is not used enough to make such optimisation neccesary. When speed matters, I use an array.

      You can do paged allocation, which will create less memory fragmentation than a linked list. STL does that for its vector template.

      Are you sure? I'm pretty sure the implementation I use allocates a new chunk of memory and copies.

    9. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > But you're assuming that speed matters in this
      > section. The code I'm using a linked list for is
      > not used enough to make such optimisation
      > neccesary. When speed matters, I use an array.

      Ah, but code size matters too. When you don't need to make it fast, make it small (and if you need to make it fast, small is a pretty good idea too). Array code is smaller and easier to debug than linked list code. You also get the advantage of being able to look at the entire array in the debugger (priceless!). This is why I never use anything but arrays and design all my code specifically for arrays: sequential access whenever possible, no random modifications, inserts only at the end, combine any modifications into blocks, etc. This is guaranteed to get you excellent cache usage (or at least, as good as it is going to get) and I have yet to see an application where I couldn't fit such a design.

      > I'm pretty sure the implementation I use
      > allocates a new chunk of memory and copies.

      Yes, that is correct, SGI STL implementation does just that. However, it also doubles the page size every time, so you get log2 allocations for your element adds, while a linked list gives you 2n allocations. It is possible to keep the old block, but you then have to make sure your objects can be bitwise copied (mostly means no pointers to internal variables) because there is no 'renew' and you get to use realloc. See http://sourceforge.net/projects/ustl for an STL implementation that does this.

    10. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      If you use realloc, there will be no copying involved
      BZZZT: Wrong. If you use realloc, there may be no copying involved as it will extend your allocated block if possible. Which is good for things that our fairly well bounded in size, and not at all good for things that could get very large.

      You could suddenly hit the limit of the contiguous space above your initial allocation and bang your program performance goes out of the window as the realloc does a massive copy of one bit of memory to another... And that's assuming you can get a sufficiently large contiguous block of memory, otherwise, realloc returns NULL and you're totally screwed.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    11. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > there may be no copying involved as it will extend your allocated block if possible

      In the general case there is no copying involved. Most of the time when you add elements, you add them to one container at a time, so there will (usually) not be any more blocks above the one you got and it will extend indefinitely until you run out of elements. Second: if you do get a copy, you will most likely get it only once, since after that your block will be at the end of the memory space. Third: arrays do not grow indefinitely. Some elements get added, some get removed, and eventually it settles down to some steady state size after which point no memory allocation is going to happen, and steady state performance is more important than startup performance.

      > hit the limit of the contiguous space above your initial
      > allocation and bang your program performance goes out of the window

      If you use a linked list, your performance is not too high to begin with, from two dereferences and two cache misses for every element. As for the copy, a one-time event does not impact performance in any meaningful way; it is the common-case performance that matters.

      > assuming you can get a sufficiently large contiguous
      > block of memory, otherwise, realloc returns NULL
      > and you're totally screwed.

      First of all, you are not totally screwed, because you did not assign the return value of realloc directly to your pointer (you didn't, right?). realloc will not touch the original data if it fails reallocation. However, none of this matters on Linux, where realloc never returns NULL. With the "optimistic" memory strategy you get the pointer anyway and then you get killed by the OOM killer. Of course, new does the same thing, so your linked list is no improvement.

    12. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      arrays do not grow indefinitely. Some elements get added, some get removed, and eventually it settles down to some steady state size after which point no memory allocation is going to happen,
      Says who? Your arrays might do that, (and if they do then, yes, arrays are probably better than linked lists.) But, unless thats in your specs, if you assume your data is going to behave nicely, all you'll get is a program that doesn't work in corner cases when it doesn't. Not smart. Not good programming.
      First of all, you are not totally screwed, because you did not assign the return value of realloc directly to your pointer (you didn't, right?). realloc will not touch the original data if it fails reallocation.
      Losing the original data wasn't the problem. The problem is, you've got no place to put the new data, which was the reason you did the realloc() in the first place.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    13. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > Your arrays might do that,

      Yes they do. All of them.

      > But, unless thats in your specs, if you assume
      > your data is going to behave nicely

      And what sort of data you have that can not be made to behave nicely? Why don't you tell me what it is, and I'll see if I can figure out how an array can be used for it. Challenges are fun :)

      > all you'll get is a program that doesn't work in corner cases
      > when it doesn't. Not smart. Not good programming.

      Not quite right: the program will still work in all corner cases, it will just be slower sometimes. But corner cases are, by definition,
      rare, and an occasional performance hit might not even be noticable.

      > Losing the original data wasn't the problem. The
      problem is,
      > you've got no place to put the new data, which was the
      > reason you did the realloc() in the first place.

      This would be true for really large datasets that approach the size of your memory. The swap might save you for a while, but after that you really would have problems. In this case it really would be a bad thing to use an array. In fact, a linked list is a really bad solution here as well. What you need is a tree of some kind, so you can search it in a reasonable time. My machine has 512M of RAM, so by the time you hit this case you'll be working with something like 250M of data, and if it is in a linked list, it will take you hours to find element 31827481 and compare it with element 9481823. With data sets this big, which are frequently modified to boot, you are dealing with a database, not any regular array. So you'll have to write a database engine to get any kind of performance out of it. This is not, of course, what I had in mind; I was talking about mundane containers in the code for sundry data you may need to run it. Usually these are a few megabytes at the most, which is more than manageable.

    14. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      This is why I never use anything but arrays and design all my code specifically for arrays: sequential access whenever possible, no random modifications, inserts only at the end, combine any modifications into blocks, etc. This is guaranteed to get you excellent cache usage (or at least, as good as it is going to get) and I have yet to see an application where I couldn't fit such a design.

      The thing I'm currently working on is a forked data structure. A list of elements, each with a data structure representing results for each year for an arbitrary number of years. So item 1 has existed since 1990, so need 14 years worth of data, item 2 has existed since 2001 so only needs 3. Item 3 has existed since 1800 so needs 204 years. I can only conceive of accessing them to add a year, delete the last year, delete the entire list, and display items (usually only looking at one item at a time, so I just iterate through a single list).

      I could use vectors perhaps, but they cause a lot of overhead when you use a lot of them for small structures. Arrays will cause all the problems linked lists have, except memory fragmentation will be a bigger problem since we have inconsistently sized fragments. I possibly could create an array per year, and have a 2d array indexed by year and item ID, although I'm not 100% sure if this would work. The linked lists seem to make more sense to me.

      In general, I'll use vectors or arrays. In fact, the vector template has meant that I rarely need to use a linked list.

      I'll just add that even if you never use them, you should still know they exist and how to use them, especially if you claim to be an "expert" programmer.

    15. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      Why don't you tell me what it is, and I'll see if I can figure out how an array can be used for it.
      OK. You're attempting to solve any non deterministic decision problem, and want to save the state of some object/variable at each iteration. Now tell me, how much space am I going to need?
      Not quite right: the program will still work in all corner cases, it will just be slower sometimes.
      Really? How would you proceed if the corner case caused realloc() to return NULL? You can't assume you're running Linux (portability), so what do you do?
      This would be true for really large datasets that approach the size of your memory. The swap might save you for a while, but after that you really would have problems. In this case it really would be a bad thing to use an array. In fact, a linked list is a really bad solution here as well.
      Now you're just moving the goalposts, adding arbitrarily adding searchability as a criterion in order to make your point. Sometimes you don't need searchability, just sequential access. And thats easy with linked lists, and doesn't have the overhead of building a tree.

      If all you want sequential access, and none of the contiguous memory constraints of arrays, linked lists are the solution.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    16. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > You're attempting to solve any non deterministic
      > decision problem, and want to save the state of
      > some object/variable at each iteration. Now tell
      > me, how much space am I going to need?

      64K. You don't need to access the values you are storing until you are done, so you should write it to a file instead. Since file writes are expensive, buffer them through a small cache. Because you are probably CPU bound, you should allocate a buffer based on number of units you can process per bandwidth of your hard disk. Then turn on nonblocking IO and start your computation. At convenient stopping points call select to check if you can flush your buffer. If you succeed, clear the buffer and continue. This way you are maxing out both IO and CPU, are not bound by the size of the physical memory, are not a memory hog, and are crash-resistant because you conveniently checkpoint your job to storage. Then, when the job is finished, you can read however many gigabytes of data you just generated.

      > How would you proceed if the corner case caused realloc() to return NULL?

      In the same way you would proceed if you failed to add an element to your linked list: throw an exception. The exception should then be caught at the computation checkpoint level, the available data should be written to disk and the operation restarted.

      > Sometimes you don't need searchability, just sequential access.
      > And thats easy with linked lists, and doesn't have the overhead of building a tree.

      It is also easy with sliding buffers, where you have no overhead at all. If you have data just pouring in and you can access it sequentially, you should break it up into manageable packets and queue them in a sliding buffer. This way it is really easy to split work between several CPUs. Also, in the common case you would be heavily using the same memory location over and over (good for cache), with never a reallocation and no copying either if you can grain it on packet size.

    17. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      You don't need to access the values you are storing until you are done
      Again, you're making completely unwarranted assumptions to steer the answer back to your unsupportable over-generalisation. How the fuck do you know when and how I want the values I'm storing? I made need them immediately in some other thread.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    18. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      It is also easy with sliding buffers, where you have no overhead at all. If you have data just pouring in and you can access it sequentially, you should break it up into manageable packets and queue them in a sliding buffer.
      A sliding buffer is fine, as long as you don't mind losing the early data. Which, surprise surprise, is another unwarranted assumption you've made.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    19. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      In the same way you would proceed if you failed to add an element to your linked list: throw an exception.
      Right. Except because your code needs contiguous memory, it throws an exception much earlier than the linked lists, which within fragmented memory better. That may be an acceptable trade off for better performance BUT IT MAY NOT.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    20. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > Right. Except because your code needs contiguous
      > memory, it throws an exception much earlier than
      > the linked lists

      If I were actually running out of memory on a regular basis, I would first take a good hard look at the design and reduce memory consumption by any available methods, like sliding buffers or paging out old data to disk. In any case, an out-of-memory condition is a problem for your linked list design just the same except that you might be able to slide by a little longer. The problem is, what if some user has very little memory, like, say 32M? Unless you can actively limit memory consumption of your algorithm, the program will fail whether you use contiguous memory or not.

      > That may be an acceptable trade off for better performance BUT IT MAY NOT.

      How about a specific example?

    21. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > A sliding buffer is fine, as long as you don't mind losing the early data.

      You don't have to lose it. If you need to keep it, you can page it off to disk. Use asynchronous IO and double buffer, like you would for graphics. Fill one buffer while the other one is being written, then swap. Set buffer size to match disk performance. Sure you might block now and then, but really, if you deal with humongous amounts of data and need to keep it ALL, there is just no way to avoid using the disk.

    22. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > Again, you're making completely unwarranted
      > assumptions to steer the answer back to your
      > unsupportable over-generalisation.

      I can't help making assumptions when you have inadequately specified the problem. If you specify all your requirements I would be much better able to present a design to suit them. One suit does not fit all and different requirements may result in completely different designs.

      > How do you know when and how I want the values I'm storing?

      How, indeed, if you don't tell me!

      > I may need them immediately in some other thread.

      Then set up a sliding buffer between the threads. If you need to keep all your data and pipe it between threads, I would create a triple-buffer pipeline: one is being written to, second is being read by the "other thread", the third is being paged out to a file. This way I keep all the data, process it as it comes through, use a minimal amount of memory, which can be user-configurable to run on any machine (try that with your linked list!), can restart the computation if the computer crashes (or the user wants to turn it off for the night, like most normal people do), is limited by disk space (unlike the linked list, which is memory limited) which is always more plentiful than RAM. Another advantage is that because the data is written down as it is generated, the user can run another program to read it and visualize it, possibly adjusting the original computation without having to finish it.

    23. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by dynamic_cast · · Score: 1

      Ah, someone who "Gets it", you looking for a job?

    24. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      I can't help making assumptions when you have inadequately specified the problem.
      No, you over generalised the solution, and have been continually attempting to weasel your way out of it by making specific assumptions that favour you.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    25. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by cmpalmer · · Score: 1

      Not if it involves moving to California (I like CA, I just don't want to move).

      Anyway, I see the validity of the question because I end up interviewing a lot of people with "real world" programming experience, often self-taught, or people with math or business degrees who "took some programming classes". Many of these people can be sharp coders, but they often have never taken any formal CS classes in algorithms, data structures, discrete math, etc. It's not uncommon for these people to be able to write thousands of lines of workmanlike code, but get a deer in headlights look when someone starts talking about n-Trees, graph traversals, doubly-linked lists, etc.

      I haven't used pointers in so long, I would have to look up some of the syntax (embarassing as that may sound), but I know I could sketch out the algorithms for pointer-based linked lists quickly. I designed an electric tracing module for our product that creates an n-tree of conductor segments that is transformed into a binary tree (child-child-* -> child-sibling) with full parenting with three electical phases represented by different sets of linkages and all stored as a sorted array of structures (where the pointers are actually array indices). To trace up or down a circuit, you can do a binary search for the start segment, then quickly walk the tree up or down by phase. This design made me real appreciative of my algorithms and data structures classes (and the textbooks for them that I still had on my bookshelf).

      --
      -- stream of did I lock the front door consciousness
    26. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > No, you over generalised the solution, and have
      > been continually attempting to weasel your way out
      > of it by making specific assumptions that favour you.

      The way I see it is: I came up with a good solution and have been continually attempting to figure out why you find it unacceptable. So far I have been unsuccessful, and received nothing but insults for my trouble. Thank you very much!

    27. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      I came up with a good solution
      "Arrays are always preferable to linked lists" is not a good solution. Its an idiotic generalisation. (Given an array of 1000000 large elements, how would you insert an new element in the middle? How would you remove an arbitrary element. Explain how your method would be more efficent than using a linked list.)
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    28. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Piquan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would anyone ever use a linked list?

      You want a specific example? Okay, the kernel process queues. These are linked lists that store information about which process is waiting on what: there's a queue for processes that are waiting for a CPU to become free, a queue for processes that are waiting for activity on a filehandle (for example, all the preforked web servers waiting on the accepting filehandle), etc.

      They cause memory fragmentation

      You can use a free list of processes, or have the processes in an array and just link them onto the queues as needed without pulling them from the array.

      screw up your cache

      I have no idea how you come to that conclusion

      add two pointers of overhead per item (quite possibly in a different memory location from the data)

      The link field is in the process data structure, so it's one pointer per item, and always in the same location as the data.

      are slow to access thanks to all that dereferencing

      Ah, that's a big deal there. For example, the run queue is a sorted list. You almost always pull elements off from the head. Moreover, you put elements on in the middle, sorting on their PRI.

      If the run queue were implemented as an array, you'd have to move stuff on every insert. If you're smart, you're putting the soonest-run process at the end, so you don't have to move everything when you delete. But now you're also having to track the length so you can find the last one, instead of just having a pointer straight to the element you're about to access (ie, the head).

      Also, you can move processes between queues quickly. When a SYN comes into your HTTP socket, you can move one of the preforked processes from the accept queue to the run queue by changing a few pointers, instead of having to do laborious copies of array chunks.

      In general, arrays are good for indexed access, and changes at the end. But they suck at changes in the middle. They also don't let you walk a list as it's changing, at least, not as easily as a linked list does. Also, linked lists let you very easily move items between multiple lists. There's lots of reasons to go one way or another. You implied that you've read Knuth; I find it surprising that you didn't pick up that there are different structures for different needs.

      This is just one example; there's many others. Don't make sweeping assumptions about what the right data structure is in all cases. If the interviewer tells you to write a linked list, then write a linked list; don't argue that no-one would ever use a linked list.

    29. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > Given an array of 1000000 large elements

      Look who's making assumptions now! :)

      > how would you insert an new element in the middle? > How would you remove an arbitrary element.

      For large datasets you should not be using a simple array. The key to performance is narrowing your scope and keeping your elements in a linked list 1000000 links long is not a solution. It is an atrocity. When you have this much data, the rule is to break it up! Put it in a B-tree. Put it in a file and create an index so you would only load what you need. Pipe it through a sliding buffer. But whatever you do, do NOT put it in a linked list! Do NOT keep it all in memory! Not everyone has 4G of RAM. Not everyone likes to see memory hog programs that occupy all the RAM they do not need.

    30. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by oo_waratah · · Score: 1

      Thanks to both gowan and Chemisor, You have both argued an interesting issue.

      The bottom line is that there are some problem domains that linked lists work well for, and some that do not. The interesting thing is that I would probably go and rewrite at least one of my linked list applications and benchmark my results to see if the list is viable, I suspect not.

      It is strongly dependant on application domain, some applications run for months and memory fragmentation is an issue and they do run on huge systems with huge amounts of data stored in memory, again it would be interesting to benchmark the results of a change in these cases.

      It is always about benchmarking the specific solution one against the other. It is my suspicion that if data addition is major portion of the work and data access is minimal then the linked list would probably win, if access is a major part then arrays would probably win.

      Generalisations are generally bad as Gowan has pointed out.

    31. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by gowen · · Score: 1
      Look who's making assumptions now! :)
      You made an over generalisation. I can look anywhere I like for counter examples, because you said always. Thats what the arguments about, remember?
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    32. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > I can look anywhere I like for counter examples,
      > because you said always. Thats what the arguments
      > about, remember?

      Do you remember? :) I said that an array was always better than a linked list. I did not say that you should use arrays instead of all other data structures. Of course you would use classes for record data, trees for databases, and may be even *gasp* unions for some overlapping data. My point is simply that linked lists are an inferior construct and should always be replaced with something better, even if it is only a linked list of arrays for paging your element additions. As I said in another post, it makes me extremely uneasy to allocate memory for a single element, no matter what, so even when I use linked structures, they are paged linked structures like the B-tree. "Many at once" philosophy will always do better than "One at a time".

    33. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by prescot6 · · Score: 1

      When you're talking about arrays, lists, queues, etc. they all have their advantages and disadvantages. You're right that arrays are the most versatile and that you can use them anywhere that you'd use a list. But if you're talking about a relatively small set of data where you won't be searching for items based on their position (i.e. item number 12345) then a list can give you the same functionality and performance.

      It might not be to difficult to implement the same functions using arrays, but it's still not as simple as just including a library.

    34. Re:Why are you using a linked list? by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      yes, except when there is no space where to extend the block too. Then the whole array is going to be copied. In the worst case, this will be every single time you try this. Also, you need an external counter for your array size. A list is much clearer than your solution. The way you do it, you turn basic assumptions on their head like: arrays have static size. Now, if I ever see a member declared as listXXX or List xxx I know what it *means*.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
  50. Bill Gates would not have approved by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > 24/7 support, Monday-Friday 8am to 8pm.

    There's a legend at Microsoft of an employee who bumped into Bill Gates in the parking lot.

    "Going home already?" Asks Bill.
    "Sure. I've done my 12 hours."
    "Ah, so you only work half-time?"

  51. Ignore parent post... by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 2, Funny

    Had an error when posting it... didn't know it came trough... posted another version

  52. Mohammed Ali quote by Chemisor · · Score: 3, Funny

    "If you can do it, it ain't braggin"

    1. Re:Mohammed Ali quote by DLWormwood · · Score: 1
      An immodest boast, but not too funny.
      "If you can do it, it ain't braggin"
      No kidding... a "design" doesn't necessarily detail knowing what very last function of code does. I can see many project managers being able to keep at least an abstract concept of a single-year project "in mind." It's too bad most commercially viable projects are so much bigger nowadays.

      Most of the actually work in most computer development projects is the "last 10%" where the 90% of effort is expended. It's actually too easy to make a plausable looking concept or design, only to find it tricky to implement it, since flaws in design frequently appear late in the development process. A project manager who still has a design within his/her limits of comprehension can usually recover from such shortsightedness better than a more hands-off manager who doesn't have a clue how the system actually works.

      --
      Those who complain about affect & effect on /. should be disemvoweled
    2. Re:Mohammed Ali quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a paraphrase - and it's from Dizzy Dean.

  53. Point being? by kristoferkarlsson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't get it, is it supposed to be impossible to game under linux? If the gamer in question is basically just playing the few games that are actually ported to linux, it would not be difficult at all. And for Windows-only games, you can still run the games fine using WineX in many cases. I run Warcraft 3 just perfectly with WineX. I can not tell the difference from playing it under Windows. This is not a boast, I simply used WineX and it worked.

    Or was it an attempt at +3 funny?

  54. Verilog? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You wuss.. use VHDL!!!

  55. All your base are belong to us by rbowles · · Score: 1

    I know its a stretch for the topic, but:
    - it is a boast
    - it is IT-related (in a way)

    --
    /* MAGIC THEATRE
    ENTRANCE NOT FOR EVERYBODY
    MADMEN ONLY */
  56. A short? by dscho · · Score: 2, Funny

    A short can hold values from -32768 to 32767. You meant an unsigned short day.

    1. Re:A short? by selfsealingstembolt · · Score: 1

      And if it was an unsigned short day, it could hold not 65536, but 65535 seconds.

      --
      Keep open minded - but not that open your brain falls out...
    2. Re:A short? by shufler · · Score: 1

      Don't forget second 0, thereby providing 65536 possible second values.

    3. Re:A short? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      So how many possible first values are there?

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    4. Re:A short? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Doesn't it depend on whether your machine uses two's complement, one's complement or some other representation? Some architectures would allow -32767 to +32767 inclusive, a range of 65535 values.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    5. Re:A short? by shufler · · Score: 1

      Obviously at least 65536. You can't just throw around second values without there being corresponding firsts.

  57. Re:Debug? Me? by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's easier than you might think to fall into this kind of trap. If you are strong at writing expressions and flow of control type statements, you may have a much lower defect rate for things like 'off by one' than many programmers. This can lead to an illusion of invincibility.

    The problem is that so many bugs come from the interfaces between different program modules and (worse yet) systems.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  58. VPN connections by svindler · · Score: 2, Funny

    I used to be responsible for a number of Shiva LANRover dialin boxes.
    When Shiva started to sell their VPN boxes, a guy from Shiva came and presented them to me, my boss and a few others.
    The most important feature about the Shiva VPN boxes was that they where the only one in the market that could actually talk to boxes from other vendors...

  59. "Job Security" by BadluckShleprock · · Score: 5, Funny

    I worked for a company that had never even considered doing peer review before an Indian (not the Native American type) was overheard bragging about how for the last two years, he had written all of his variable names in Hindi and that they wouldn't dare fire him now. He was half right. They didn't fire him at that point, but for the next six months, he had to go to daily meetings with his three tiers of bosses to show the work he had done in translating the variable names back to English.

    Problem solved, right? Not really. While he was translating some files to English, he was also busy translating others to Hindi. Right before he was put back on a project, his new "work" had been discovered because, again, he was overheard bragging about how they would never fire him. This time they cut his pay by $20 an hour for the duration of the repairs, locked him out of the version control software to prevent any more damage, and the day after he finished, there was a total peer review of every file he had ever worked on. Once the day long meeting was over, he was asked to stand up in front of everyone and told by the VP of engineering that he was fired.

    The bad thing is that the company still doesn't believe in peer reviews, but it's a good company to work for because it is almost impossible to get fired.

    --


    ------
    There's a fine line between cuddling and holding someone down so they can't get away.
    1. Re:"Job Security" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice script.

      I speculate fabrication. I am American, btw. Good luck to you.

    2. Re:"Job Security" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know you need outsourcing when you get stuck on variable names.

      --Indian of the other type

    3. Re:"Job Security" by phorm · · Score: 1

      Ummm, no offence but for most languages that I understand well enough, I could probably manage to unmuck a program regardless of the variable names. In fact, one of the thing one deals with quite often when going through other peoples code is odd syntax and variable naming conventions.

      It wouldn't be much worse than if he use variables all named such as $a1, $a2, $b1, $b2... all little replace magic and they should be nicely tidied up.

      Now if the comments are also in an alternate language... of course many people don't comment/doc anyhow.

    4. Re:"Job Security" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why didn't you just hire someone else who spoke Hindi? It isn't like Hindi is a rare language...

  60. From IT Desktop Support Department........ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We dont like reimaging our desktop PC's to fix problems as reimaging wears the disks out......

  61. The best ones are about me by NanoGator · · Score: 1

    I plead the fifth!

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  62. D. McBride by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Linux contains SCO source code!

  63. Computer Game Company by cgenman · · Score: 1

    "8 months to write an original engine from scratch relying upon unproven technology in a genre which we have no experience and have to radically change? Sure, sign us up."

    I don't know how we did it, but we actually did hit that one. Somewhat ironically, at a previous company where the producer said "We can fix these bugs by friday" we were still slaving away 6 months later, trying to get the thing out the door.

    1. Re:Computer Game Company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      what game if I may ask?

      Now don't go and spoil his little story by asking about facts n' stuff.

  64. Oracle Files Boast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While working on a custom web based file storage system with extensive permissions and workflow criteria - Oracle sent in some sales reps to try to pitch Oracle files. Somehow the customer claims to have witnessed a 1 Gigabyte file transfer occur in .04 seconds using Oracle files, on a 10Mbit/s network.

  65. From an Internal Desktop Support tech by InfinityWpi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Yeah, they tell me I've got the best response times in the entire company. Probably helps that some of them are negative -- brings down my average."

    No, he didn't invent time travel... he actually got some problems fixed before the helpdesk called him and told him to go over and fix them. So he had dang-near-zero response time on a lot of calls... and yes, some that the central-helpdesk newbies put in as being done before being started, so he had negative times.

    Pity the company got hit with fraud charges and I ha... erm, he had to move west...

  66. Paged allocation in.. a little more than two lines by Chemisor · · Score: 1
    > Now do that in two lines on the whiteboard for a job interview.

    Well, not in two lines, but it's not too hard:
    void intvec::push_back (int v)
    {
    resize (size() + 1);
    *end() = v;
    }

    void intvec::resize (size_t n)
    {
    reserve (n);
    m_Size = n * sizeof(int);
    }

    void intvec::reserve (size_t n)
    {
    if (n <= capacity())
    return;
    n *= sizeof(int);
    size_t newSize = align (n, c_PageSize);
    int* newBlock = (int*) realloc (m_Data, newSize);
    if (!newBlock)
    throw bad_alloc; // Note that m_Data is valid
    m_Data = newBlock;
    m_Allocated = newSize / sizeof(int);
    fill (end(), begin() + capacity(), 0);
    }
    It gets a little more complicated for object arrays (need to use placement new to call constructors), and I have omitted all the obvious accessor functions, but you can see that the code is pretty simple and quite doable on a job interview.
  67. Re:Paged allocation in.. a little more than two li by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > m_Size = n * sizeof(int);

    Replace with

    m_Size = n;

    Really should have used the preview button :) (or at least figured out what the units of the member variables ought to be before writing the code)

  68. A few stories by DamienMcKenna · · Score: 1

    A guy I knew back in 2000 at college was boasting about his turbo-nutter CD burner he got from his mom. It was supposed to be so fast as to burn a full CD in 30 seconds.

    This was the same guy who, back then when CPUs weren't even running on a 133MHz bus yet (i.e. 700MHz days), that his mom had a 1.4GHz system from the government.

    Then there was a different guy who in 1996 told me about hacking into a website that controlled some satellite or other and had some NSA guy come onto his computer and tell him off for doing it.

    It takes all kinds.

    Damien

  69. Mac by JHromadka · · Score: 1

    "You use a Mac? Can that even route TCP/IP?" -- one of the tech leads where I work. Sigh.

    --
    "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    1. Re:Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and the boast is?

  70. One table project by eberry · · Score: 1

    "We are going to combine all our databases...", or "We are going to create a datamining database", otherwise known as the "One database project"

    At least these people will settle for one database. I have a "Financial Analyst" in my company who wants all data in one table. No I am not kidding. So he can make queries in Access without having to do joins.

    And yes I explained the concepts of normalization until I was blue in the face. Regardless, I refuse to accommodate these people.

    Some famous quotes:
    "If I had created indexes in my Access database, I am sure it would be just as fast as SQL Server."

    "Why do you use SQL Server instead of Access?"

    "The XXXX program was all me." - Overhead coming from a wannabe PHB about an application I wrote for the company. And at the time I didn't even now who this person was.

    "How can I put my Access database on the web?"

    --
    Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Lois, this isn't my Batman glass. - Peter
    1. Re:One table project by T-Ranger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh, so create a view for the moron and be done with it.

  71. Boastfull asshole by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1
    Once, the asshole in charge of "security" boasted that his HP-3000 was "secure". When my boss came back from the meeting, he sounded thoroughly pissed.


    So we got into his "secure" system by guessing his passwords. Took the most of 30 seconds.

    1. Re:Boastfull asshole by my_fake_account · · Score: 1

      What were the passwords?

      I can't even guess my wife's passwords, and I've known her for 13 years.

    2. Re:Boastfull asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we got into his "secure" system by guessing his passwords. Took the most of 30 seconds.

      Certainly the one of the most *boastful* things I have heard.

  72. 0 Release Related Production Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a meeting at a company I worked for, one of the higher ups compared us to the India branch by saying that the India branch never has release related production issues.

  73. Seen on a BBS in 1994/1995: by Lifewolf · · Score: 2, Funny

    "After I graduate, I'm going to college as a computer engineering major. I'm going to make a computer where the whole Internet is in hardware so it's faster."

    --
    "Be Happy or Die." -- AoN
  74. Re:Debug? Me? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    nice LART

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  75. Offsite Backup by Tackhead · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Good thing we put the failover server and the offsite backup in Tower Two!"
    - Some Dude, 1 WTC, 9/11/01

    1. Re:Offsite Backup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find little humor in that joke.

      Disappointing actually.

    2. Re:Offsite Backup by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      You are SO going to Hell, Express Ticket.

      (I hate how /. wipes your comment text if you typed it to fast or to slow, super-lame)

  76. I know every programming language by Tom7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We once got an application from someone who claimed to know "every programming language" on his resume.

    1. Re:I know every programming language by Sam+Nitzberg · · Score: 1

      If his last name were Kernighan, Ritchie, Knuth, Dijkstra, or Pike, I'd hire him :-)

    2. Re:I know every programming language by Tom7 · · Score: 1

      Even serious programming language researchers don't claim to know every language; there's just too many of them!

    3. Re:I know every programming language by oo_waratah · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with that :-)

      If you show me a procedural language then I could probably code in it within 24 hours and be as proficient as your best after 3 months.

      I learnt functional programming quickly because of my knowledge of programming and ability to 'see patterns'. Other more experienced programmers could not 'see' how to code it and had to work far harder.

      OO programming is a lot more art and I have not had the chance to do proper production programming solidly in it with a mentor to tell me where I broke the design. Given that I would expect to be 'good' in OO programming and design within 3 months (I have done a LOT of preliminary research, just my designs are awful).

      So what I am saying is that it may not have been an idle boast just a poorly phrased one.

    4. Re:I know every programming language by Tom7 · · Score: 1

      Even saying you have experience with procedural, functional, and OO languages doesn't even begin to cover all of the possibilities. As a programming languages researcher, I see new several new programming languages (or at minimum, pl constructs) at each conference---and these aren't just syntactically variations on known languages, they're significantly new (that's why they constitute research!)

  77. OK, so it's CLOSE to IT; CNC related by AntineutrinoAI · · Score: 1

    I worked as a CNC machinist at a company when the shop leadman, while giving a tour to a prospective customer, announced that "Numetrical Control is our specialty"

    --
    Sticks and stones won't break my bones, because I'm only weakly interactive----AI
  78. Best Buy BS by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Funny

    The guys at Best Buy are worse. They'll just spout off nonsense
    The best example of this was when Best Buy was selling the original blue iMac. I thought I had heard it all until I overheard a sales goon tell a potential customer, "Bill Gates had a virus on his network, the only way he could remove it was by adding an iMac".

    Wow.

    1. Re:Best Buy BS by TexTex · · Score: 1

      I've had a guy at Best Buy explain that I needed the extended warranty on my TV to cover expenses for yearly cleaning of the digital comb filter.

      He explained how the filter could get dirty over time and maintenance would be required...

      --
      -Barkeep, a draft of your most hazardous brew, for the world is slowly stepping into focus, and I don't like what I see.
  79. Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by csTapDancer · · Score: 1
    The real last straw for me was the start of the recession, right around 2000, when I started seeing job offers that required several years experience in twenty technologies, some of which were mutually exclusive.
    What kinds of technologies are mutally exclusive? What knowledge can I have that will preclude me from having other knowledge (as far as technology is concerned)?
    1. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by rjshields · · Score: 1

      My interpretation of this was technologies that overlap - that you should never need to use together in the same job. I don't think "mutually exclusive" is the correct way to describe this either :)

      --
      In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
    2. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      True; I'm a better programmer than wordsmith. Actually, I was thinking of the kind of person who claims to be an expert COM+/ASP, J2EE, .Net, AND mainframe developer, with about four years experience. WTF???

      If you've got four or five years, I might buy that you're exceptional at one, maybe two of the technologies, but ALL of them? How the hell would anyone keep all that crap in their head at the same time? It's bizarre that someone would even pretend to be able to do this.

      I think maybe people mean "I've done a little bit of work in X technology, and I know how to use Google, so I'm an expert".

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    3. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by itwerx · · Score: 1

      True; I'm a better programmer than wordsmith. Actually, I was thinking of the kind of person who claims to be an expert COM+/ASP, J2EE, .Net, AND mainframe developer, with about four years experience. WTF???

      If you've got four or five years, I might buy that you're exceptional at one, maybe two of the technologies, but ALL of them? How the hell would anyone keep all that crap in their head at the same time? It's bizarre that someone would even pretend to be able to do this.


      It's not impossible. I've been in the industry one way or another for almost 20 years and I've been consulting for 15 on projects for hundreds of different companies/networks.
      And even though I haven't had to touch 'em for years I still remember stupid stuff like printer ESC codes, Procomm scripting syntax, half a dozen different serial cable pinouts, default settings for different types of dumb terminals, workarounds for bugs that existed back in Access v1.x, appropriate patches for wierd Netware 3.x NLM conflicts etc. etc. ad nauseum!
      So yeah, people like that exist! :)
      And that eclectic background is why I get tend to get involved in bizarre projects nobody else would touch with a ten-foot pole so it's kind of a self perpetuating condition...

    4. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by prescot6 · · Score: 1

      I think the key part of his statement that you're missing is "If you've got four or five years..."

      The first sentence in your comment is that it's not impossible because you've got 20 years and... That doesn't debunk his comment. The only way to do that would be to say "I have 5 years exp. and am an expert in this, this, this, and this." Of course, nobody would believe you then :)

    5. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by itwerx · · Score: 1

      I think the key part of his statement that you're missing is "If you've got four or five years..."

      Not missed, I just didn't phrase my response very well.
      I was simply demonstrating that in some cases "once an expert always an expert". I.e. given, say, one year per project in disparate technologies, one could actually be a bona fide expert in this, this, this and this
      But yeah, when I see resume's like that I tend to ask a lot of hard questions (and they usually are bluffing. :)

    6. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      The real problem with your "it's possible" theorem is this: it takes three to five years of working experience for, say, a recruiter to consider you a seasoned professional in ANY technology. If you're working with more than one technology at a time, your attention is diluted between the two. If we're talking about three, five, seven, etc, then the situation becomes more and more unrealistic.

      Another factor is, let's say that you work in Java for three years, then .Net for two more. If you now want to do Java, there will have been some language releases since you last touched it. Instead of AWT, you'll be looking at Swing or SWT. Your experience will no longer be relevant anyway, and just like that, you're a rookie again.

      Given five years of experience, it's very unlikely that a person will be able to really master and stay current in more than one or two. And given longer experience, older subjects will likely be obsolete.

      No disrespect, but I find your claim a bit hard to swallow, too. You're only going to be current in the stuff you've been doing this year; think about it. Everything changes too fast for your experience to have such a long shelf life.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    7. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by russotto · · Score: 1

      For resume arithmetic, if I've been working with five technologies at a job I've been at for five years, I've got five years of experience in all five. If prior to that I had five years of experience in another technology that I've only used occasionally since, that's ten years of experience in that technology.

      It's not the most useful reckoning for determining skills, but given the requirements in job postings, it's the most useful in getting your foot in the door without actually lying.

    8. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by itwerx · · Score: 1

      Your experience will no longer be relevant anyway, and just like that, you're a rookie again.

      Not really. 90% of the original learning curve will still be in place, you just need to pick up the new/changed bits.

    9. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Taking Java as the example, I'd agree with you to a degree. The base language didn't change much, and many of the libraries were the same. However, the GUI development setup changed completely, so a large chunk of knowledge basically went out the window. While it's true you can still do AWT programming, a modern boss would probably require you to code in Swing, which has a big learning curve (the books are all huge, big old boat anchors).

      Then, you've got to learn a new IDE, generally, which is a pain.

      And if you've been doing, say, .Net for two years, your head will be cluttered with competing ways of doing things, which are similar but oh-so-slightly different, and it'll take some time to get back in the swing of doing things the Java way (pardon the pun).

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    10. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      I see what you mean, but I can't help think this is going to turn into a cold-war style escalation which will lead us to the point where all resumes are considered fiction and no one is ever believed about anything they say.

      The results of that, are anybody's guess. Maybe someone will come up with an on-the-spot skills test?

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    11. Re:Mutually Exclusive Technologies?? by russotto · · Score: 1
      I see what you mean, but I can't help think this is going to turn into a cold-war style escalation which will lead us to the point where all resumes are considered fiction and no one is ever believed about anything they say. The results of that, are anybody's guess.
      The results of that are the status quo, I think.
  80. "LINUX is obsolete" by Mignon · · Score: 1
  81. An example by hsoft · · Score: 1

    Ok, now I will maybe sound stupid because I'm completely off-track, but I have an example where the best data structure to use would be a linked list.

    If I have to get a list of files in a directory, including all the subdirectories. When I start the scan, I have no idea how many files I will have, so I can't alloc an array without either overallocating, or having to realloc several times during the scan.

    I don't have to search through the results, I only have to go through it. To reduce the overhead, I could even use a single linked list instead of a double linked list.

    Oh well, the structure choice all depends of what you want to do with the results after, but I do think that linked list are useful when you have no idea how many results you'll get and you know you'll have to do a lot of inserts. As long as you browse the structure with First/Next, and not indexes.

    --
    perception is reality
  82. Think 90 degrees counterclockwise :) by Chemisor · · Score: 1
    > A list of elements, each with a data structure
    > representing results for each year for an
    > arbitrary number of years. So item 1 has existed
    > since 1990, so need 14 years worth of data, item 2
    > has existed since 2001 so only needs 3. Item 3 has
    > existed since 1800 so needs 204 years.

    I would use the following:
    struct SItemYearData {
    itemid_t m_Item;
    itemdata_t m_Data;
    };
    typedef vector<SItemYearData> yeardata_t;
    vector<yeardata_t> m_Years;
    Because you have more items than years, the vector overhead (24 bytes in for my implementation) would be a much smaller fraction of the data. The order of item data in the year depends on whether you care more about reading or about adding. For the former, do sorted insertion at the price of a copy, for the latter add them as they come at the price of a linear search instead of binary. The advantage over linked lists is continuity of data for each year; since you probably get yearly data for all items in one batch, adding them all simply consists of a sort and copy into one array. Because yearly blocks are likely to be large, they are good candidates for being in separate files, will compress well ('cause running zlib on a linked list is hard work :) Another advantage is that eventually you will have all the data for all the items that existed in 1996, so that year will not be modified any more. In addition to this you may need item information vector, which will have their range of existence along with all the other fixed size data you probably have on them.
  83. Or process it as you get it. by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > If I have to get a list of files in a directory,
    > including all the subdirectories. I don't have to
    > search through the results, I only have to go
    > through it. To reduce the overhead, I could even
    > use a single linked list instead of a double linked list.

    Or you could completely eliminate the overhead by not storing the list at all, but by processing it as you read it. Take 'find', for instance: you can execute all your matches and commands on each entry without needing the entire list.

    All right, so let's suppose you really do need the entire list. Will I be using a linked list to store the items then? Hell no! Paged allocation is the way to go here. Ok, so what if you need to modify other data while you are reading (like, say, if you are in a multithreaded environment where another thread is allocating memory)? Will I use a linked list then? Not exactly. I'll use a linked list of arrays to do paged allocation. Call it a habit, but my stomach turns at just thinking about allocating memory for a single item. It's just something I never do. Period. It's not a good way to deal with memory. Fragmentation, extra dereferencing, cache misses (two per element in a textbook implementation!), and total lack of access locality (not only is your element not in the cache, but you even lose the prefetch from processing the previous element), make linked lists totally unsuitable for any application. Call me a prude, but it is just something I wouldn't do to my computer.

    1. Re:Or process it as you get it. by hsoft · · Score: 1

      "but my stomach turns at just thinking about allocating memory for a single item"

      If you have an array of objects, you will have to instantiate them one at the time anyway, so you will still have your memory fragmentation.

      Huh, I just want to be sure: You're not using arrays with structures directly in it right? In this case, the cost of re-allocating the whole array is *much* higher than the cost of reallocating an array of pointers!

      Anyway, this kind of array is only possible if you use structures, it won't work for objects (Well, in object pascal, an array of TObject is an array of pointer).

      Besides, inserts and deletetions in an array are costly. In a linked list, it's only 4 pointers to change, or 2 if that's a single linked list.

      Maybe my previous example wasn't good, because yes, just giving a callback function is a better way to proceed, but there *are* uses to linked lists.

      --
      perception is reality
    2. Re:Or process it as you get it. by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > If you have an array of objects, you will have
      > to instantiate them one at the time anyway, so
      > you will still have your memory fragmentation.

      An array of object pointers is still better than a linked list. You get random access, only a single dereference overhead, easy sorting, no carriers, and a mostly negligible resize operation. You also don't need to have a next member in your objects, which is an important consideration when you want to have a templated container that works on all data types. Carriers (the thing with the object pointer and next pointer) waste memory, increase fragmentation, and are hard to iterate over.

      > Huh, I just want to be sure: You're not using
      > arrays with structures directly in it right?

      Usually yes, I am.

      > In this case, the cost of re-allocating the whole array is
      > *much* higher than the cost of reallocating an array of pointers!

      Quite true. That's why you want to avoid having to do it by allocating a page at a time. realloc helps a lot as long as you work with one array at a time, but usually I just design my algorithms to not do random inserts or deletes. This optimizes your data for reading, which is what most data is for anyway.

      > Anyway, this kind of array is only possible if
      > you use structures, it won't work for object

      Yes it will, but you have to know what you are doing. If you use new [], then there is no problem, but if you use malloc, you need to call placement new to call the constructor of each object. If you use realloc, you have the additional restriction of bitwise copy capability, which means having no pointers to internal variables. All my containers are realloced, and I use a pointer array if I have something that doesn't fit.

      > Besides, inserts and deletetions in an array are costly.

      Right, but inserts and deletions are usually not a performance problem. Most data arrays are read a LOT more frequently than they are modified. In addition, it is almost always possible to combine your inserts and deletes into a single operation, thus minimizing copy. Profile before you optimize! You will find that reading is more critical than insert/delete.

    3. Re:Or process it as you get it. by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      I had to write code for a variation on this once:

      I needed a routine to find all files on the hard drive that met certain criteria, and perform a number of operations on the result. However, some of the operations in question are *very* time-expensive (several seconds per file), and I couldn't determine if the operations were needed until after finding all the files, so I had to keep some sort of record of the search results.

      Best-case and average-case scenario for the number of files was that there would only be one or two files matching the criteria, but worst-case scenario was around 5,000 files.

      The memory record size for a file was a little over 2000 bytes, so preallocating an array for the worst-case scenario would require 10MB of memory, which is not an option, since this software would be running on computers with as little as 16MB of total RAM.

      Runtime for the item-insert and item-lookup operations is minimal compared to the other operations being performed. Which data structure would you recommend: a linked list, or a dynamically-resizing array?

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  84. COOL! by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    That's the first time in a looong time I've seen a UID lower than mine. :)

    Yeah, I was slow with registration. I was posting on /. since before moderation and user accounts too.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:COOL! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Funny
      Glad to meet you.

      "Chips and Dips", anyone? I think I first came for the Windowmaker dock apps.

      I stayed for "duck pins".

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re:COOL! by maelstrom · · Score: 1

      Sup?

      --
      The more you know, the less you understand.
    3. Re:COOL! by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately I haven't been around that long. :)

      I came because a friend told me about it, then I found Taco's E themes. Or was it the other way around?

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    4. Re:COOL! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I was all over that stuff. His first, black one, inspired by 2001... I used that for a while on e .13.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    5. Re:COOL! by velkro · · Score: 3, Insightful


      meep! meep!

    6. Re:COOL! by davidu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You kids...

      -davidu

      --

      # Hack the planet, it's important.
    7. Re:COOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I worship the ground you walk on and the poop you leave.

    8. Re:COOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      god damn, motherfucker. you are lucky.

    9. Re:COOL! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      You are the official lowest I seen, 'sides Taco.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    10. Re:COOL! by SlamMan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Double digits? How'd you sign up, with punch cards?

      --
      Mod point free since 2001
    11. Re:COOL! by sgant · · Score: 1

      wow....just....wow

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
  85. Re:Debug? Me? by gazz · · Score: 1

    he'd probably call it a Feature

    --
    it's the taking apart that counts
  86. Easy... by DAldredge · · Score: 3, Funny

    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff That Matters.

  87. Important NT files by DragonHawk · · Score: 1

    "and I thought ntldr had something to do with the kernal"

    Not sure if you're serious or not, but I'm trying to avoid getting any real work done, so:

    NTLDR is the NT boot loader. It gets loaded by the boot strap in the PBR (partition boot record, AKA boot block). It does things like present the OS choices menu, and load critical NT files using BIOS INT13 calls.

    NTDETECT.COM is a low-level hardware detection routine that gets invoked by NTLDR. The details I'm fuzzy on.

    NTOSKRNL.EXE contains the NT microkernel and the NT executive. Virtual memory, threads, cache, I/O scheduling, system objects, all that sort of stuff happens here.

    HAL.DLL is the Hardware Abstraction Layer (of which there are several choices available). The HAL, in theory, contains the platform-specific parts of the NT core. It was more interesting when NT actually ran on more then Intel hardware. Today, mainly interesting with APM vs ACPI issues (and, I suppose, 64-bit beta releases).

    SMSS.EXE is the Session Manager Subsystem. SMSS manages device names and does a lot of initialization and hardware interface work.

    LSASS.EXE is the Local Security Authority Subsystem. LSA is responsible for the SAM (Security Account Manager) database, local SIDs and RIDs, and other security-related gunk.

    CSRSS.ESE is the Win32 Subsystem (Client/Server Runtime Subsystem). This provides the Windows userland interface and runtime environment. This is what programs see as "Windows".

    KERNEL32.DLL contains kernel interface routines, similar to the way glibc on Linux contains interfaces to Linux syscalls.

    GDI32.DLL is the user-mode portion of the Graphics Device Interface, which handles low-level drawing primitives (like X11, but without the network bits).

    USER32.DLL is the user-mode portion of the Windows GUI (kind of like an X11 toolkit plus a window manager).

    WIN32K.SYS is the kernel-mode portion of the Win32 subsystem and libraries (including parts of the GDI and GUI).

    WINLOGON.EXE generates the logon dialog box and handles logins, obviously.

    EXPLORER.EXE is the current default Windows GUI shell (desktop icons, task bar, file manager).

    And finally, SOL.EXE and WINMINE.EXE are the two most important programs on the system, of course. ;-)

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
    1. Re:Important NT files by stanmann · · Score: 1

      I thought DOOM3.EXE, DOOM3.WAD, and HL2.EXE were the most important programs on the system :)

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
    2. Re:Important NT files by stanmann · · Score: 1

      And yes, I thought(correctly) that it bootstrapped the kernal. So while it doesn't contain the kernal it does instantiate it.

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
    3. Re:Important NT files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that be "kernel"?
      And I have not heard of "instantiate".
      Were you shooting for "initiate"?

      thx.

    4. Re:Important NT files by myg · · Score: 1

      NTDETECT does a basic probe of some of the non-self-identifying (legacy) hardware and builds the dynamic registry entries for them.

  88. Error handling in VB by DragonHawk · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Additional note: He wrote a VB6 app that had to do alot of file access"

    Well, that's one error right there.... ;-)

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
  89. I was wrong. I'm sorry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought we could all laugh about how lisp has a lot of parentheses. I was gravely mistaken.

    Pure parentheses and nothing else would be called "binary."

  90. So ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1
    I was told that I had to set up the server to include the cwd in the path so that students didn't have to always type ./a.out


    I suppose nobody was bothering to ask how to get programs that aren't called a.out??

    Then again, if you can't set the path you'll never notice anyway.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  91. Requirements by nytes · · Score: 1

    One guy I worked with: "No, I'm not sure what the requirements of this program are, and I don't really know the programming language. I just code until it works."

    --
    -- I have monkeys in my pants.
  92. Excessive uptime on Windows 95 by Don'tTreadOnMe · · Score: 1
    When I was working in casinos in South Dakota, back in around 1997, doing numbers for a management company, some freak of a tech support guy in Montana claimed that he hadn't rebooted his Windows 95 machine in over a year. "In fact," he says, "I'm downloading [CD-ROM worth of data] right now."

    Now Montana had no broadband back then, or not much, so I thought I had him dead to rights when I said, "Mister, there's no way in hell you're downloading [CD-ROM worth of data], that'd take days over dialup..."

    But he was ready for me, and he said, "Yeah, it's been going for about a week, and it's one of the reasons I never reboot."

    I laughed, of course, chuckling along with him. To this day I have no idea if he was for real or not.

    1. Re:Excessive uptime on Windows 95 by cbr2702 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Over a year? Pretty unlikely. Windows 95 crashes after no more than 49.7 days. See this . But a cdrom over dial-up is reasonable; I dowloaded all 7 disks of debian woody that way.

      --


      This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
    2. Re:Excessive uptime on Windows 95 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I kept a windows 98 machine up for over two months - the uptime counter rolled over. It just did email and web browsing for my parents, and occasional file serving (thus the constant uptime). When you run next to nothing on it, win98 is pretty stable. I don't know why I eventually rebooted, but it's conceivable that, under some situations, win95 could be made to run for a year.

    3. Re:Excessive uptime on Windows 95 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inconceivable!

    4. Re:Excessive uptime on Windows 95 by droolfool · · Score: 1

      One friend of mine used to download some full movies with a dial-up connection. No joke, here in Brazil we had a totally free dial-up ISP (toll-free phone number too!), and he always connected to the ISP in the morning (30 minutes trying, way too many people), and left the computer downloading stuff all day long.
      The ISP didn't last long, of course. But he enjoyed it a lot ;)

  93. My ex-manager by rjshields · · Score: 1

    My ex-manager:
    "I've written a lot of applications in MS ASP with VBScript."
    "I couldn't sleep one night so I wrote (crappy web app with absurdly grandiose name)."

    --
    In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
  94. Al Gore by pploco · · Score: 1

    Didn't Al Gore claim he invented the internet?

    --
    Gimme that booze you little pumpkin pie hair cutted freak!
    1. Re:Al Gore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No, he never claimed to have invented the internet. Conservative commentators liked to interpret one of his statements that way, though.

      What he said was "I took the initiative in creating the Internet" on CNN in an interview with Wolf Blitzer (March 9, 1999). He was referring to his having introduced the National High-Performance Computer Technology Act which funded an expansion of the Internet 1989. The bill supported research and development for an improved national computer system, and assisted colleges and libraries in connecting to the new network. He essentially knew about the Internet and saw its potential, the provided $1.7B to expand it.

      He also said "I genuinely believe that the creation of this nationwide network will create an environment where work stations are common in homes and even small businesses," to a congressional committee in 1989. So he some idea of what the Internet could become when it was expanded beyond the research and educational institutes that had monopolized the Internet until then.

      Here is a good source of information on that: http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins /

  95. Linked list vs. array timings: ARRAYS WIN! by Chemisor · · Score: 1
    People have complained to me that arrays are not efficient for inserting an element in the middle. I was skeptical, because the cache misses ought to slow things down. So here's a small program to test my hypothesis (you'll need http://sourceforge.net/projects/ustl):
    #include <ustl.h>
    using namespace ustl;

    int main (void)
    {
    #if USE_ARRAY
    vector<int> v;
    for (uoff_t i = 0; i < 20000; ++ i)
    v.insert (v.begin() + v.size() / 2, i);
    #else
    typedef struct _list {
    int* p;
    struct _list* next;
    } mylist;
    mylist head;
    for (uoff_t i = 0; i < 20000; ++ i) {
    mylist* p = &head;
    for (uoff_t j = 0; j < i / 2; ++ j)
    p = p->next;
    mylist* pnew = new mylist;
    pnew->p = new int (i);
    pnew->next = p->next;
    p->next = pnew;
    }
    #endif
    return (0);
    }
    Timings for array:
    real 0m0.308s
    user 0m0.308s
    sys 0m0.001s

    Timings for linked list:
    real 0m12.746s
    user 0m12.685s
    sys 0m0.006s

    Array insertions are 40 TIMES FASTER! The vector class for this implementation uses paged allocation with realloc.

    (On 2proc Athlon MP 1GHz, Debian Linux SMP)

    With 100000 items:

    Timings for array:
    real 0m10.701s
    user 0m10.691s
    sys 0m0.004s

    Timings for linked list:
    real 6m41.403s
    user 6m40.089s
    sys 0m0.167s

    Conclusion: NEVER USE LINKED LISTS!
    1. Re:Linked list vs. array timings: ARRAYS WIN! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      <Boggle/> If you used vector, why not use list as well? (I have no idea what that ustl thing is, but the standard library provides both in C++.) That way, the randomness involved in your manual memory allocation in one place will be replaced with a library that presumably uses some clever code behind both templates.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    2. Re:Linked list vs. array timings: ARRAYS WIN! by gowen · · Score: 1

      Well, theres a slight problem with this. The data you're storing are single pointers, which minimises the cost of the array copy operation, and maximises the relative overhead of linked lists.

      How about if you rewrite it using the sort of structures one puts in linked lists:

      typedef struct _list {
      char entry_name[256];
      float x;
      float y;
      double z;
      int rgb[3];
      int alpha;
      int gamma;
      double temp;
      double salinity;
      struct _list* next;
      } mylist;


      (Sorry about the formatting, lameness filter.)

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    3. Re:Linked list vs. array timings: ARRAYS WIN! by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1
      Now, change your code in two place:

      typedef struct _list {
      int p; // no pointer!
      struct _list* next;
      } mylist;

      and

      pnew->p = i;

      With your old version I got for the list (20000 items):

      real 0m2.967s
      user 0m2.930s
      sys 0m0.000s

      While for the vector I got:

      real 0m0.714s
      user 0m0.700s
      sys 0m0.000s

      While with the modifications above I get for the list:

      real 0m0.549s
      user 0m0.490s
      sys 0m0.000s

      Conclusion: a extra 20000 unneccesary allocations can hurt a lot! Indeed, if the list grows much larger than this, performance gets killed by the loop for traversing to the middle of the list, which is certainly slower than the buffered re-allocations and copies that the ustl vector needs to do (timings: 17 seconds for vector, 1 minute 12 for list). I also ran a test for inserting at the front (back for vector) and there the differences in speed are negligable with a slight advantage for the list.

      Now for the counterexample: replace the 'int' data with 'struct block { char b[1000]; };' in your code. Thus both the vector and the list will manipulate 'block' instead of 'int' (*). For the limited number of iterations of 10000 I get the following timings:

      list:

      real 0m2.462s
      user 0m2.380s
      sys 0m0.050s

      vector

      real 0m52.467s
      user 0m50.360s
      sys 0m0.140s

      And here the copying (purposefully made difficult for paging), kills the vector

      So no, the conclusion that array are always better than linked lists is not warranted. You also might want to consider that in some applications you want to ensure that you can keep pointers to your elements that are not invalidated by insertions and deletions. This is a guarantee that (in general) a vector cannot give.

      (*) Lamelessness filter dissallows me posting the actual code. It seems to contain to many junk characters. Hell! It wasn't even Perl!

  96. See actual timings: by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > Given an array of 1000000 large elements, how
    > would you insert an new element in the middle?

    I have written a sample program to test insertion in the middle of an array (paged allocation and copy to shift) as compared to the same operation on a linked list. Arrays win by a factor of 40: here

  97. Your network is hosed.... by LadyLucky · · Score: 1
    True story.

    I was doing support for one of our applications, and the the customer was reporting that our app couldn't start up. The error was unable to resolve host, the name of the database server. Among other suggestions, I said

    Your network is hosed causing name resolution to fail.
    Normally, our support team reads these and rewrites if necessary. This time, they didn't, they cut & paste.

    The reply was:

    Our network admin says that our network is not hosed.
    Whoops.
    --
    dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
  98. "I built a Mac Emulator in about 8 Months" by j_heisenberg · · Score: 1

    with 4 employees.

    1. Re:"I built a Mac Emulator in about 8 Months" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I think he'd originally claimed to do it in only 4 months. BY HIMSELF! That was such a laugh my gut still hurts...

  99. howdy by ChrisCampbell47 · · Score: 1
    Public forum, personal note, eh ...

    You had a comment recently that got modded up to +5 so I happened to see it. I happened to notice the low UID. Then I happened to notice the obfuscated email address, and idly I typed into google (the right way) for no particular reason. Stumbled across your resume ...

    Let me interject: I have no idea why I was wandering down this path. I am not stalking you.

    Anyway, saw your resume and there it was: Adams Road, Martinsville, NJ. I grew up in Martinsville. Hmmm, Adams Road sure sounds familiar. I look it up and ...

    Dude, you're less than a mile from the house I grew up in. 2221 Brookside Drive. I lived there from ages 5 to 18, climbed those trees, played ball in that back yard, learned to bike on that street (and struggled up Stangle, and hauled ass down Vosseler), painted that garage, played in that brook, built the bestest rope swing ever in those woods, went to those schools (including BRHS East, which doesn't exist anymore apparently) and moved to Atlanta to college and never looked back.

    Anyway, very freaky. Half of that town was farmland when I lived there.

  100. Re:Linked list vs. array timings: LINKED LISTS WIN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Or alternatively, understand what you're doing before you go doing something stupid...

    vector.cpp, inserting elements into the middle of an array using the STL vector template:
    #include <vector>
    using namespace std;

    int main(int argc, char *argv[])
    {
    vector<int> v;
    for (int i = 0; i < 100000; i++)
    v.insert (v.begin() + v.size() / 2, i);
    return 0;
    }
    list.cpp, inserting elements into the middle of a linked list using the STL list template:
    #include <list>
    using namespace std;

    int main(int argc, char *argv[])
    {
    list<int> l;
    list<int>::iterator it = l.begin();

    for (int i = 0; i < 100000; i++)
    {
    l.insert (it, i);
    if(i & 1)
    it++;
    }
    return 0;
    }
    Timings for vector:
    real 0m4.128s
    user 0m4.120s
    sys 0m0.000s

    Timings for list:
    real 0m0.039s
    user 0m0.020s
    sys 0m0.010s

    Test system: Debian, Uniprocessor, Athlon XP 2100+, compiled with gcc filename.cpp -o filename -lstdc++

    So, the list implementation is over 100 times faster than the vector implementation. Kinda blows a hole in your theory, doesn't it?
  101. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  102. Re:Linked list vs. array timings: LINKED LISTS WIN by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > list.cpp, inserting elements into the middle of a
    > linked list using the STL list template:

    You are not doing the same thing. I did not intend to simulate insertion exactly in the middle. If my insertion point remained the same, I could simply preallocate a hole in the vector and copy the new elements into it. So no, it does not blow a hole in my theory.

  103. "Everything You Do Will Be More Fun!" - Win95 by tweedlebait · · Score: 1

    Windows 95's endless installation screen

    --
    Firefox & /. ? Use this often:
  104. Production before beta! by wandazulu · · Score: 4, Funny

    I interviewed a guy back in '96 I think for a VB job. The company that recommended him even flew him out from his current job in Iowa to NJ to talk to us. I was impressed...his resume was 4 pages long and talked about all the technologies he had worked on. One got the impression that this was a VB/SQL Server guru, who would be everything and more that we needed.

    When I met him, he was visibly nervous, and I figured it was just the usual interview stress plus he had just flown in a snowstorm. As we were trying to get out of there ourselves (it turned out to be a *huge* snowstorm), we got down to business, and I asked him a couple of difficult VB questions that would have been winners if he could answer. Well, he couldn't.

    Okay, so ask a few easier questions. Nada. I drop it down to *extremely* easy questions (max value of int in VB3, how to do arrays, etc.). Zip. My partner asked a *very* simple sql question ("how do you update a table?") and he came up blank.

    Now I'm starting to really *read* his resume, instead of skimming it, and I came upon this little gem: He had put into production some huge program written in VB 4 back in 1995 (not a typo, as it also mentioned being 32-bit). I excused myself for a second, got my beta copy of VB 4 dated 1996 and returned. I dropped the disc on the table and said, in effect, that he had lied on his resume, that there was no way he could have done this and here's the proof.

    He was silent and said "Please don't make me go back to Iowa." I then was able to use the famous bartender line of "Well, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

    That was the only person I've ever interviewed that had to be escorted out by security.

  105. Re:This project will be on time AND within budget by phsdv · · Score: 1

    Even better...

  106. Re:This project will be on time AND within budget by phsdv · · Score: 0, Redundant

    even a better one...

  107. Two simple anecdotes by daem0n1x · · Score: 3, Informative

    Some years ago, my boss had a meeting with a colleague of mine about a new product. In the end he asked him how much time he needed to develop that. The guy answered "two weeks". It took him a year. We still use the "two weeks" joke to refer to never-ending projects.

    Once, I was talking with my boss about how stupid some blue-collar people are when they refuse to use helmets or safety-goggles at work, just to play macho. Then I said a stupid joke about macho IT workers: "True men don't make backups". It was intended to be a joke, but some weeks later we lost our entire codebase because the server disks fried. The server was managed by a different department. The guys that were in charge of nursing it didn't have any backup, in spite of THAT being THEIR job. I think my boss still shivers when he remembers that joke. I'll keep it as a motto, and never trust anyone to backup my work.

  108. Not me!! by orasio · · Score: 1

    I have a lot of trouble with 'off by one' type of errors.
    I used to think that I could fix that problem by studyin my code, and developin thinkin skills based on my own workin examples. I did actually think that my programming ability was dependand on that.
    And then came Java to my life, and I don't need to increment my iterators.
    Now I find that I can write much bigger software modules when I don't have to care about 'off-by-one' errors, and memory management!!!

    That is an old issue, if you are a better programmer because you can deal easily with C's arrays, and malloc. I find those things are as useful as knowing x86 ASM. They can give you some power, but the skills required for good software development are much wider, and those are not critical and not even very important.

    1. Re:Not me!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > I have a lot of trouble with 'off by one' type of errors.
      >I used to think that I could fix that problem by studyin my code, and developin thinkin skills based on my own workin examples.

      Looks like you are having 'off by one' type errors with your gerunds.

  109. Where do I start ? by MeerCat · · Score: 2, Funny

    "We've written a client-server database system" was a MS Access application with the MDB file on a network drive - and they couldn't understand why running the app over the WAN didn't work very well.

    "I've done lots of network programming" (meant that the compiler was installed on his PC's hard disk but the source code files were on a shared drive, so everytime he compiled he thought he was doing network programming)

    "When you write data to a socket, TCP/IP guarantees the data will be delivered" (hmmm, and they were going to write a global trading system that's now done over $20 trillion of trades).

    "We've written the most sophisticated database in existence and so you can't see the source because you'd steal our secrets" (turns out they didn't know what indices were, the whole thing had no indices on any table, and the code was crap, oh, and it was Access 2)

    "Our encryption is unbreakable" (data was encoded using the string OVER_THE_TOP_ENCRYPTION which was present as plaintext in the EXE - was later changed to CUSTARDCREAMS, still present as plaintext)

    "The performance test of this software running on a 4-CPU Sun machine on a 100BaseT network was invalidated because we detected a rogue packet on the network (was actually a single UDP broadcast packet of about 800 bytes every 15 minutes) and that was chewing up all the cpu time as the network stack thrashed trying to decide what to do with the data because no program was listening to that port" (that from the networking expert of the consultancy department of a global carrier)

    "The smartest programmer in the world who we were going to lend you to replace 50 of your crap guys - he won't be coming over because he refuses to fly over water and we've just explained that New York is an ocean away from London" (seems he didn't know that)

    "I'm such a great programmer that the code I've written here is unreadable by anyone except me - in fact if you looked at it you'd probably think it's shit code, but in fact it's just that I'm so smart" (erm, well, it was shit, and it didn't work)

    Oh there are loads more, but just typing those in has made me depressed.

    --
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
  110. Command & Conquer by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

    Back in my script kiddy days I changed all the rules.ini files in C&C red alert so that all allied infantry fired tanya's handguns and their tanks blasted tesla bolts.

    Still managed to beat them with the soviets though. Man that game was one sided.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  111. Pre Napster eh napster by bolix · · Score: 1

    "I was downloading mp3s in college in 1995"

    "Bullshit, Napster wasn't founded until 1999"

    "Gui'fied IRC DCC: in the beginning was the commandline"

    {silence}

    1. Re:Pre Napster eh napster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MP3's predate Napster, though I admit by less than four years.

  112. What About Interviewer Boasts? by sipy · · Score: 1
    I was interviewed by a guy who claimed he knew all about programming, so they "picked him" because he could figure out who was BS'ing and who was telling the truth. Then he asked me, point-blank "How many instances have you coded?" When I replied - "You don't code an instance, you code a class that gets instantiated, thus creating an instance" he got that deer-caught-in-the-headlights look and said "...uh...yeah... I knew that. I was just checking to see if you knew what that meant."

    Riiiiiiiiggggghhhhttt........

    Then he followed that up with a - "You'd be surprised at how many people lie their way through that question..."

    Needless to say, I refused the job offer...

    1. Re:What About Interviewer Boasts? by oo_waratah · · Score: 1

      I went to an interview with teh marketting manager. He discussed in detail the project, artificial intelligance, blah blah blah (unlikely given the cobol application).

      Next phase of interview was do you think you will be bored there is a lot of table maintenance involved. I ended the interview immediately and said I was not interested. Stunned look, back peddle, bluster, confusion. I rang head hunter and told them the guy was an idiot and forgot to shut off sales speak.

  113. Not source code but by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    If you get MSDN, you can compile a special install of any version of Windows- leaving out or including whatever you want.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  114. Not quite a boast but... by phorm · · Score: 1

    I had a similar experience while on holidays in Australia (I was looking to help my friend upgrade her PC). I was asking about if they had any video cards with an NVidia chipset (linux compatability and all), and the salesdrone walked to the shelves, pulls down an ATI Radeon, and says "I think this one should have it."

    Yeah... walked out of that store in a hurry, managed not to call the saleperson an idiot to his face.

  115. Payrise by camiosway · · Score: 1

    All I read so far is just child's play. I have been hearing for over three years that I will get a payrise soon before the end of the month.

  116. Boasting... by billr · · Score: 1

    Most people who boast about how smart they just aren't smart enough to realized that they're not the only smart peopl out there.

    --
    I've finally found the off by one erro
  117. babblefish by oo_waratah · · Score: 1

    It is not that hard, I would have fired him on the spot!

    Besides if you did have a source repository with versioning you could figure the original names easily. Or was it a traditional source repository without versioning.

    OpenOffice.org has a lot of very old code written in german. I just babblefish the comments and variable names.

    Also as pointed out you work through the program logically and rename the variables as you figure out what they do. I had a complete program with variables a b c and d, a was reused for two purposes, I had that worked out in about 2 hours, not hard really.

    1. Re:babblefish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be too anal, but it's "babelfish" not "babblefish."

      The name of the site refers to the Babelfish from Douglas Adams' "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."

  118. "Expert Programmer"=="fair game" by Anonymous+Luddite · · Score: 1


    I think a better test would be:

    "write me a linked list"

    I know most people would fail this, even if you gave them all afternoon, but syntax errors aside, whatever they turned out would give good insight into their level of competence (or lack of) as a programmer.

  119. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  120. By hook or by crook we will. by Snork+Asaurus · · Score: 1

    Who are you?

    The new Number Two

    Who is Number One?

    You are Number Six

    I am not a number - I am a free man!

    Ha, ha, ha, ha....

    --
    Sigs are bad for your health.
  121. IBM responsible for 640KB limit by anti-NAT · · Score: 1

    When IBM designed the original PC, they used a 8086 (or 8088, I can't exactly remember) CPU, which supported an address space of up to 20 bits. 20 bits allows addressing of up to 1MB of RAM.

    The original IBM PC was quite limited - the only storage IO device the BIOS supported was a audio cassette interface. The original BIOS didn't support FDDs or HDDs. To allow for these and other devices to be added, IBM allowed for BIOS extensions to be added, with the installation of more BIOS chips or extension cards in the ISA slots. BIOS extensions have to appear somewhere within the address space of the CPU, yet not within the same region as the system RAM. So they decided on placing that boundary between RAM and ROM Extensions at the 640KB mark.

    384KB of address space (1024 - 640) for additional devices probably sounds, and probably ended up being excessive. However, bare in mind that the original IBM PC only came with 16KB of RAM. The size of both the supported RAM, and address space allocated for extention devices, probably sounded so large at the time that these limits were probably assumed to be unreachable. History has shown otherwise, probably because the IBM PC architecture was a success beyond anybody's predictions.

    Bill Gates may have made the statement that "640 KB is enough for anybody". If he did, then he would have only been endorsing the 640KB barrier that IBM had decided upon, rather than being responsible for it.

    --
    The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
  122. Watch out ! by anti-NAT · · Score: 1

    Make sure cwd is the last entry in the path. In fact, it is actually better not to have it in there at all. Here is why.

    If you put cwd as the first entry in the path, of course the shell will always look in the cwd for the program requested. This can be convenient if the user happens to name their program "ls". The shell will run "local" cwd versions of any and all system binaries.

    However, if an attacker executes a bit of social engineering, they can get the user to run a program they don't intend to. That program can do some "interesting" things, like change the users password on them, without them knowing or realising.

    Here is an scenario. The attacker walks up to a student not aware of social engineering tricks like this one. "Hi, can you check something for me, I've left a file called foo in /tmp, and I'd like to see if it is still there." The user goes to /tmp, and executes "ls foo", expecting /bin/ls to be executed. However, the attacker has placed an "ls" binary in /tmp, which (a) changes the users password silently to something the attacker knows, and (b) executes the real /bin/ls, giving the appearance that the only thing executed was /bin/ls.

    Of course, the student's account has now been compromised. Can you imagine what would happen if that "student" was the root user in the above scenario, and had cwd in the path ?

    --
    The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
  123. Question by Glytch · · Score: 1

    Do you hear a lot of bad luggage combination jokes?

  124. When Bill Gate said... by Mike+McCune · · Score: 1
    --

    In a world that is Free and Open, who needs Windows and Gates?