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Canadian Public Radio Streaming Ogg Vorbis
d00dman writes "CBC Radio, Canada's major national public broadcaster is now streaming in ogg/vorbis. Recently CBC had switched from realmedia streams to windows media streams for their radio broadcasts. After receiving a plethora of complaints, suggesting ogg/vorbis as an alternative, CBC has begun a test ogg stream of the toronto stations. They boast in their ogg FAQ that they're encoding with oddcast and streaming with icecast."
That a publicly funded organization is actually trying to cut costs. Too bad it doesn't happen more often.
Now, if that makes sense to anyone, could you please explain it to me? I think I've confused myself.
Sounds very forward-thinking. I will definitely be listening to this stream when I move there soon.
What a bunch of standards-following wimps Canadians are. Join Kyoto protocol. Join international world court. Use the same ballot across the nation. (Count that ballot in hours.) Same-sex marriage. Soon-to-be-legal marijuana. Free health care. Soon to be free daycare. What a crew. Oh, and some Ogg Vorbis thingee now, too.
hopefully the cbc will completely change over to Ogg format. Its difficult for older computers (like the one my parents have) to play media cleanly through Windowsmediaplayer as its a resorce hog, and if they want to do anyhting else while listening it gets choppy.
Cool, now it's up there with the classical station WCPE!
Does anyone know of any other Ogg Vorbis streams? The only other one I know is a police scanner.
Happy about this?
From CBC's Ogg FAQ:
We're currently testing the streaming of Ogg Vorbis, an open, free audio codec. Please contact CBC Audience Relations if you have suggestions or comments.
only 3 people will be tuning in? I've had some problems explaining what ogg is to friends let alone expect them to listen to a streaming broadcast.
Virgin Radio have already been streaming Ogg Vorbis for ages, they even have a 160k stream: http://www.virginradio.co.uk/thestation/listen/
I listened to a Radiohead concert on the weekend through this stream. It sounded really good.
People in Canada always harp on the CBC because it receives public funding, but it really is the best news organization in the country and to top it off they actually innovate. They had a decent website back in 1998 (the earliest Wayback is from '99). They stream CBC radio and all of their TV news broadcasts for free, in multiple codecs. And if you want local news that isn't about a dog or a whale they might be your only option. Bravo CBC. They can take it from my cold, dead hands.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
if only dial-up was as fast as broadband ..
sighs in desperation..
All the feedback was likely a direct result of me featuring it in my blog last month. Many people linked to my blog and kindly repeated my message.
. org/#b log_2004-10-09
_ 2004-10-09
Bandwidth saving URL:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:jguk
Otherwise:
http://jguk.org.nyud.net:8090/#blog
Finally, my boadband connection link:
http://jguk.org/#blog_2004-10-09
Cheers, now3djp
Despite the parent article stating there were a plethora of complaints when the CBC switch from Real Media streams to windows media, they do, in fact, provide information on their site for unix users to access these streams.
For the ogg streams, they only provide access to the stations in Toronto, rather than the local stations.
Whichever format, though, I'm happy that I can listen to the CBC on the operating system of my choice. However, I think it is appropriate that a public service broadcaster use a format that is unencumbered and hence accessible to all.
Windows - Winamp
MacOS 9 - upgrade
Amiga - buy a new computer
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Now this is the way to go. Public radio accessible to the public; not just the part of the public that pays for .
Let's hear what they are broadcasting, anyway. BTW, anyone aware of a cooperative streaming solution (i.e. clients serve to one another, like Bittorrent)? I've worked one myself (StreamDist), but it's not really production-ready and I haven't worked on it for some time now.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
We had a few extra years on that one. America came out of the oven under done.
Deleted
What is interesting is that they have said that they are dropping support for real media and quicktime.
Why?
Because of the technical complexity of running multiple streams and getting it all to work.
So its really quite interesting that they are adding a new streaming format at the same time.
Or is their plan to lose windows media player as well?
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
I complained to them the day they switched (as i always do when someone picks a proprietary M$ format) but i didn't expect anything would come of it.
Does anyone know of a good ogg client for OS X?
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
It must be worth checking this story for you.
Hmmm.....I've already got WMP, RealPlayer and Quicktime (don't ask).... do I need WinAmp also? Or is there some way to get streaming ogg with one of these. The Ogg/Vorbis codec that allows me to play local .ogg files doesn't seem to allow streaming, or perhaps WMP is not aware of ogg streaming.....
The sound quality is considerably better than the WM or RM streams ever were, I can use my favorite media player (WinAMP, even suggested by CBC), and I can reduce the number of times I have to load up WMP yet another time. Kudos to CBC for doing something right.
Cool, now if they'd only start making audio files of Writers and Company available again. Grrr.
And why doensn't Ideas have a bigger archive?
cbc.ca/ideas
Check it!
Of course, I live in Canada and listen to CBC every day so maybe I don't count.
Wonder if the BBC will take notice? Currently they do windows media or real streams. Fortunately they're help for linux/unix users is pretty good.
Weren't they developing their own, or was that video... memory fault.
I for one welcome our new ogg overlords.
>
Basically, you need .m3u (audio/x-mpegurl) mapped to a player that can handle Ogg, most often Winamp.
The main problem with Ogg as a "general public" format (as opposed to a "private collection" format) is that the general public still isn't ogg'ed -- but that matters less with a private collection.
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
As a CBC Radio listener for the better part of 40 years I can tell you this is just another innovative step in the history of a great public institution. CBC is also known for its great honest and open minded coverage of news. This has been very apparent in the last couple of decades as comercial private media has been gobbled up by massive multinational corporations and given a sanitized, unified, and politically correct editorial viewpoint (according to the disposition of the owners and not always the accuracy of the facts). But possibly best of all the CBC works to inform, educate, motivate its listeners with open and honest coverage of world events... presented from multiple points of view.
If anyone would like to hear what the rest of the world is thinking and doing, catch the news and editorials on CBC... By the way, BBC radio does this too.
Anyone else notice that the Linux distribution they support is Gentoo? A curious choice, although one that makes me happy. I do have a question, though. I know that Red Hat, and perhaps some other distribution makers, modifies or doesn't include packages with questionable licensing (or obvious license violations in some cases). Does the version of mplayer included with every modern distribution support Windows media? It may well be that ogg support is the only way to support some Linux distributions.
Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
--Proverbs 9:7
This isn't perfectly on topic but its close enough.
What are peoples favorite streams? I've only really found one place that I like so far but then again I mostly listen to techno. Check out http://www.digitallyimported.com/ if you're into that kind of thing.
--HC
So I'm jump'n up and down screaming show me the money.
Listening to the broadcast for some time, it seems that they mostly broadcast speech. This makes me wonder if Speex wouldn't have been a better fit for their needs.
Of course, Speex is probably not supported as well as Vorbis is.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I've admittedly been a long time CBC listener. I've been wanting for a long time to get a shortwave radio so I can pick up CBC's Radio Canada International service when I travel outside the country (but have kept putting it off as I haven't had occassion to leave Canada for the last couple of years). The CBC is by far the best news and information service in North America -- they actually take investigative journalism seriously. I'd argue they're one of the best news and information services in the world, up there with the BBC in the UK.
And thanks to the other recent article about listening to Vorbis streams on Mac OS X, I'm now able to listen to CBC Radio 1 Toronto with my PowerBook from anywhere I can get wireless internet access.
(I've had to use VLC to play it back. I have the Vorbis QuickTime component from SourceForge, but can't get it to work with streaming audio. Which is too bad, as I'd love to use iTunes to play back the CBC Radio 1 stream).
Time to fire off a note to the CBC stating my support to ensure they expand their Vorbis usage for streaming audio (and maybe a note to Apple to see if they might start supporting Vorbis in QuickTime).
Yaz.
CBC blows my mind! http://cbcradio3.ca/
I explained to them why they were forcing people to pay money to see things on their web site by using proprietary formats and that I used Linux, a free and open source operating system which didn't work with Microsoft expensive proprietary formats.
This is great news. I live in Finland and our bbc equivalent media company http://www.yle.fi/yleista/faq_stream.shtml#14 doesn't stream ogg vorbis because "ogg vorbis can contain software patents and the media companies don't allow a format which doesn't contain digital restrictions management". Maybe they will change their minds someday and start offering streaming in a Free format.
Yep, we are such hip rebels...why heck, take a look at what netcraft says they are using to run their websites, etc. (the Rebel Alliance will win...;-))
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 26-Oct-2004 212.23.37.32 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 25-Oct-2004 212.187.244.16 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 24-Oct-2004 212.23.32.13 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 22-Oct-2004 212.23.32.7 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 21-Oct-2004 213.161.82.41 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 17-Oct-2004 193.108.93.138 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 16-Oct-2004 212.23.32.31 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 15-Oct-2004 212.187.244.15 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 11-Oct-2004 193.108.93.140 Akamai
Linux
Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_jk/1.2.5 10-Oct-2004 193.108.93.138 Akamai
-- "May the Source be with you!"
RealPlayer 10 can decode Ogg Vorbis steams
At the start of September the CBC switched exclusively to Windows Media 9. I fired off a few e-mails to hosts I'd corresponded with before, and to their news desk. I noted they were denying "universal access" to their internet radio (that's a good push-button word in Canada) because the latest codecs were not supported by Linux/Unix based media players. I strongly suspect I wasn't the only one, since it only took about a week for them to switch to WM7/MS-MPEG4 for their streams, which Xine and Mplayer seem to handle more reliably.
On one of their promo-spots before the news they even explicitly said "even linux users" could listen on their internet streams. :-)
The switch to testing Ogg was a little later, which runs against their stated "one-stream" policy. I also strongly suspect Akamai was behind the original switch. Akamai streams the CBC content and are a "Microsoft Partner" company in the venture. It sounds a bit to me like Akamai sold them a bill of goods in the name of cost cutting, and that the response was not what they expected. I'm quite sure listeners in Europe, where MS does not reign quite as supreme, were not pleased. I've had notes from friends over there asking how to stream WM7 on Linux.
Then, three weeks ago, I submitted this story. (...but I'm not bitter...) :^)
The CBC is not only great radio and television, it's also an organization full of really nice, really smart folks, and has been voted in the top 100 places to work in Canada.
at my previous job we employed an ogg stream for some time..until some (i suspect) MS sponsored company offered to host windowsmedia streams for *free*
-- signed for your pleasure --
I so agree. That's been one of my favorite sites for a while now. It's awesome.
It's about time - ogg rocks and should be the standard instead of this windows media player crap. and not strings attached too. I hope more sites follow.
Did anyone notice that both site's text describing OGG is identical? Including (possible) spelling errors? (eg. "If you're a Windows user, download Winamp 5, which copes with Ogg")
Weird.
There actually is a player for Amiga, I'm fairly certain. ;3
Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
"only 3 people will be tuning in? I've had some problems explaining what ogg is to friends let alone expect them to listen to a streaming broadcast."
And yet people run into ogg/vorbis and don't even know it.
Schizm: Mysterious Journey uses ogg for it's sounds, and I'm certain other games do as well.
The BBC ran OGG streams for a while as a test...and then bizarrely dropped them in favour of Real Media. I should imagine some back handers were paid....
Anyway, if public pressure in Canada can get the CBC to change their mind can we get a similar thing done in the UK with the BBC? Anyone know of a campaign under way? I've mailed the BBC a couple of times about this and just get polite "thanks for you interest, go look at our real media FAQ" responses.
If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?
they do, in fact, provide information [www.cbc.ca] on their site for unix users to access these streams
Do they provide protection for the listen when Microsoft decide they don't like mplayer or xine? Or have MS suddenly made WMA patent free?
I used to listen to the CBC all the time with the Real Player. Now that they've changed, I don't seem to be able to listen at all. Unless I use a radio.
... I will search further when I have more time.
Can't use the WMP streams because M$ ostracizes its customers until they come back to be exploited and used again, more onerously this time.
WinAmp 2.80 claims to run ogg but when I click on the link it connects and plays nothing. After a half hour of searching for other ways to play ogg streams, I gave up. BUT
N.B. - This will probably have replies that recommend things that aren't for Win95. Happens all the time.
Astro
if the cbc makes an attempt to put their video online and encode it in an open format that would be pretty amazing and set quite an example for other public orgs...
Get your torrents...
Anyone know where I can DL a Mac OS X ogg client?
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
AFAIK, Winamp 5.x will quite handily use .m3u and open the ogg stream for you.
.m3u just like Winamp but I've had to 'play' a little to get Realplayer 10 / Helix to automatically play from .m3u.
I'm not sure how in Windows, Realplayer or Helix would handle the ogg stream if it was set as the default player.
On GNU/Linux systems, XMMS handles the
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
The US radio show Democracy Now! offers ogg streams, and even flac archives through archive.org. It used to stream in ogg, mp3, and real player format, but now it just streams ogg.
This is cool, but I now have to ask what players are available on the various OSs to play the stream? Can iTunes be used to play this, either on MS-Windows or MacOS X?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
CBC could use the Freedom Audio player on their website.
Freedom Audio is a simple java web-page embedded player which can play OGG/Vorbis streams.
It uses Javascript/Java 1.1 so it'll run with *most* browsers without needing to get the Sun Java VM.
The player loads automatically and begins streaming with just one click so there is no need for a standalone player and the prospective listener doesn't even *need* to know that playback is using OGG/Vorbis format. (Although it would be nice if they did know.)
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=oggtrial. nm.cbc.ca
The US gets a lot of guff about Kyoto, but while Canada ratified the treaty two years ago, it hasn't actually put a plan in place to meet any of the targets. No laws to curb emissions on vehicles, no powerplant switches, nada.
Kyoto requires that greenhouse gas levels drop 6% below 1990 levels. In 2001, Canada's greenhouse gas levels were 18.5% above 1990 levels. So you're talking about dropping greenhouse gas emissions by 25% in 8 years (assuming they haven't increased since 2001).
Canada has been fighting to get credits for all of their forests as greenhouse gas sinks. That seems to be their plan on meeting Kyoto. Make everyone else agree they don't have to do anything.
As far as I can tell, Kyoto was a feel good measure.
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
CBC's science show - Quirks and Quarks has had ogg support for a few years. They also have an audio archive of old shows.
I believe people harp on them because they're overly Canadian, they try too hard to push Canadian content onto you, even if it sucks, and it does most of the time.
I was using icecast(win) and oddcast dsp about two years ago on my station at futureassassin.com but eventually other money sucking things became a priority so had to shut it down. Its nice to see a big organization using Oddsocks tools. Hopefully he gets that article and it gives me a boost to further enhance the software as he has some pretty cool streaming tools. All created byhimself.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Bloody hell! Doesn't anyone use Quicktime for streaming radio? The Mac client of Windows Media Player is pure shite. The OS X version of RealPlayer rocks. Bush gets re-elected and now the CBC has pulled this crap.
For mp3 certainly; I have used it. Don't know about Ogg though. Amiga supports a PIPE: device so you would have to save to pipe: in the web browser and then open it in the player.
Radio 3
Just Concerts
New Music Canada
STFU about slashdot bias.
Other than simple popularity of the clients (Windows Media, Real) and licensing issues (Ogg), what are the technical issues involved in *serving* these different formats?
Some people, cooks/chefs in particular, like it bloody.
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
Primo. Cheers dude.
Heck, you can get Ogg/Vorbis streaming working with ALL of those. See: vorbis.com
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
If memory holds, one of Hyperion's screenshots of OS 4 had an Ogg player visible. I haven't used one myself yet, so I'm not certain if there's a publically-available one.
Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
For some wickedly cool CBC, check out http://www.cbcr3.ca/. SWEET!
http://www.canopener.ca/article.php?story=20041022 145355406
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
http://www.free-codecs.com/CoreVorbis_download.htm
On Linux I'm all set. But what player should I use on Windows to listen to streaming ogg?
It's nice to see CBC cutting their costs down: More money for education and Helth Care! Okay, so the gov. don't work like that, but at least the saved money can go into creating even better programs and placing less ads on the CBC.