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U.S. Goverment Responds to EFF's Indymedia Motion
bergwitz writes "In a response to EFF's motion to unseal, the U.S. government claims that Indymedia hard drives were seized as part of an international "criminal terrorism investigation," and thus the U.S. District Court's gag order should be upheld." This will help refresh your memory.
Good enough reason for me to keep it sealed.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
It'd be rather embarrasing to admit we clamped down on a leftie news site just for political reasons.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
first post!
Scott Lockwood keeps sendingme kiddy porn! CUT IT OUT!
The 21st century's answer to Communism when it comes to ignoring due process.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
At least they didn't cite god's will as the reason. ;)
1st
Linux banned as terrorist OS
and so do those who voted for in this government.
Despite the conveniently edited write up above such that the response appears to be an inflammatory one dismissing the EFF's claims on "terrorism" grounds, there's not much of anything to see here. Basically, they say the documents should remain sealed because 1) the EFF is not in any position to request that they be unsealed, that's up to Rackspace and 2) the documents are part of an ongoing investigation that could be jeopardized by the unsealing.
Nothing to see here, move along move along. I'm sure, of course, this won't stop a bunch of card-carrying tinfoil elitists from crying wolf.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
No fair buying a subscription just to get first post!
More Patriot Act for you.
Little difference.
Go Patriot Act, lets have the PA2 and the PA3 so we can put all the /. terriorists behind bars, and make this a free land once again!!!!!!!!!!!1
goddamnit, i'm tired of this do-it, see if they bitch, link it with terror/DHS/etc, gag everything about it, make whatever you did legal, and fuck the people.
wow, interesting to watch the changes that are taking place.
This is just a crazy, they call it the 'land of the free' but how free are you? Next thing you know they will be blocking website's to USA IP addresses if the FBI can't get it hands on the physical hardware.
going to even try to refute that the government merely has to cry terrorism to get whatever it wants? Where are you now apologists.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
Scott Lockwood keeps sending me kiddy porn! CUT IT OUT!
and a bad one at that, go fsck yourself
... we didn't serve IndyMedia - we served RackSpace.
Ah, the complexities of an information society. According to the government, you'd better own the equipment, not just the data. Data owners apparently have no standing to sue if they aren't directly served, even if it's their data that's confiscated.
Let us live so that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry -- Mark Twain
As far as I understand it, the Indymedia was hosted in UK but the FBI seized it on the request of Italian and Swiss governments. Is there an active interest in this matter by the US government other then just complying with the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Treaties (MLATs)?
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Get the photos of the swiss cops here with this torrent
it was nothing about terrorists, just people taking pics of cops that were trying to intimidate activists.
you all are terrorists and you know it so go turn your selfs in before we come with the big guns. And we know you don't have guns becuase you are liberal weannys and are against guns, so we will not need the big guns, but it will give us great pleasure to use them just to see you little babies wet your diapers. Ah is little baby going to cry, here I can change your diaper for you
Without being a part of the investigation, would it be safe to say you are only familiar with those parts of the incident that have been made public? Is it possible there could be other, non-public parts?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
And how happy they are to oblige our cheese-eating, surrender monkeys on THIS issue.
No doubt about it. This Administration will say anything, do anything, to stay in power.
Hell, they will even abandon their support for Reagan's famouns slam against Carter's Administration:
"I believe in states' rights; I believe in people doing as much as they can at the private level."
Now they are reigniting the whole debate over Oregon's Assisted Suicide Law.
I guess when you can abandon your principles to win, you become just another Democrat.
Republicans: Democrats without the guilt.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
...you should have said earlier.
Everyone back to their business.
Come on gates. Give it a break.
Does it pertain to an ongoing terrorism investigation in the sense that it discusses the politics surrounding terrorism? Particularly from a viewpoint unfavorable to the agencies performing the seizure?
Well maybe not all of them, but most of them right?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
They might as well have responded with a "cuz".
But this little paragraph bothered me a bit if I've read and understoood it correctly.
"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
Is it just me, or does that basically state the laws of any state anything in the Constitution do not apply when this law is used? It's saying there is a law *above* the Constitution?
Appear to be confused about this statement, claiming that it had to do with terrorism. No, it had to do with criminal terrorism. Other sorts of terrorism (as demonstrated by John Ashcroft's singing) are entirely legal. Please, please keep the distinction in your minds. Criminal terrorists are Bad. Legal terrorists are Good.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
This is the problem with the so-called "War on Terror." Any investigation can be kept secret and officially proclaimed to "pertain to a terrorist investigation." After that, it is closed to public debate and due process no longer applies.
that John Sutton (the US attorney) isn't full of shit when he writes:
"...3. "As further grounds for the denial of the Motion to Unseal, without waving the forgoing, the U.S. would show that the sealed documents pertain to an ongoing criminal terrorism investigation. The unsealing of the documents on file in the matter would seriously jeopardize the investigation. The non-disclosure is necessitated by a compelling government interest..."
unless we get a little more details that the vagueity that is the above?
Assuming it's really about terrorists, the "Bad guys" already know the hardware was seized. An organization that depends on secrecy to survive would treat this as an infection, and cauterize the wound. (Meaning, eliminate the infection by dissociating themselves from it, and anyone that links them to it.)
So, if it's really a part of an investigation, they fucked up big time by not slapping IndyMedia with some sort of silencing order before news of the confiscation became public.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Give us four new supreme court justices, and eight more years of control over the government, and the children will grow up to take us the rest of the way. Vote for charter schools, education is wasted on the poor.
Look, as long as the Patriot Act remains largely untested in court, the Justice Dept. would be incredibly stupid not to milk it for all they can. I'm pretty sure this kind of thing will be eventually overturned, but Congress passed the law, so now we've got to deal with it. Dealing with it will probably take the Courts striking down enough provisions that they send it back to Congress for a rewrite. This will probably take several years. Till then, it's a process. So far, it's a process that still seems to work. Give it time.
web operations and data that are clustered or distributed around the world would be immune to a single site's seizure.
You deserve it for being passive to such a horrible government. You deserve it for selling out your children through your greed. Every american knows that they agreed to this injustice due to their inactivity. Just wait for the day that they take you away.
Welcome to America, land of the... nevermind.
The American people fell for it just a few weeks ago, now they are testing it out on the technology sector. I call total bullshit.
I have to find a local group that plays Paranoia.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Don't vote? Write Slash-Dot.
Not USA citizen? Write Slash-Dot.
Bored with porno? Write Slasth-Dot.
I am going bowling.
The only thing new in this world is the history that you don't know.[Harry Truman]
So, your mantra is "Hey, it's not quite as bad here as China, North Korea, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, several African nations such as Nigeria, Somalia, Etheopia when it comes to rights abuses, so I'm cool with it." Since when is being not quite in last place a good thing?
By citing Article VI of the Constitution and using it to say that treaty obligations require the seal, the government can conduct any black bag job it wants just by arranging a "confidential" request from any "friendly" foreign power.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
Only if you trust the government, and all its employees, and believe the war on terror should be fought with such secrecy that there's no way to know for certain if their actions have anything to do with the war on terror, or if they're using it as a blanket excuse to do whatever they want.
Of all the millions of servers out there, they picked IndyMedia's. And how many days should it take to copy a hard disk for investigation, or to make another copy to put back into the server in place of the original? Couldn't most people do it in half an hour?
It's not so much that they needed the evidence for their terror investigations that demands an explanation. They sought to do more harm than necessary to gather their evidence. Their actions were an assault on the free press and possibly an unlawful seizure, violating two constitutional amendments.
Disclaimer: I'm not trolling (if I were I'd of posted anonymous).
The EFF has become a high-tech version of the ACLU. To some that may be a complement. To others it may have a negative connotation. To me it's the latter. It would seem that the more sensational a case is, the more potential there is for an EFF/ACLU to get involved, no matter the merits. I'm not implying that neither does any good, as they do certainly have their share of just causes, they just seem to be getting fewer and further between. Just my observation peppered with my opinion.
Kind of like a gag order, eh?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
It is sad that in the United States you apparently need special standing to request the unsealing of information for a warrant/subpoena.
In Canada, the PUBLIC is considered to have an interest every time the STATE uses its power to seize something via a warrant/subpoena and any member of the public can request the information be unsealed and has standing to do so.
On a similar theme, the public has the right to order transcripts of court proceedings for the same reason.
The process of Justice is considered to be a matter of public interest. Not simply a private matter between the state and whoever the state is screwing over.
Their argument about the MLAT treaty is persuasive however. It seems to contradict their argument about terrorism however.
Either the seizure was according to the a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) and was therefore done on behalf of another country, or it was at the behest of US authorities to protect american national security.
Does anyone know the identity of the unnamed "REQUESTING STATE"? Or is that a secret also?
Because it seems by refusing to ID the requesting state the government is also necessarily refusing to ID the authority of which specific treaty they are relying on. Pointing out the Treaty would tend to ID the requesting state (in so far as it would be a signatory)
I don't think you can rely on a treaty if you don't want to identify it to the court. that is just my hunch. Justice is called Justice for a reason.
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
A friend in the UK at Rackspace said the cops were asking about "pictures of undercover officers" and nothing about terrorists. The undercover officers presumably have to worry now that their faces are public. At least that's the fed's line. If they were really undercover or covert they'd use long range telephoto lenses from buildings, not wander amongst protestors.
It was playing the heavy, nothing more.
It means the Constitution is the authority which empowers the government of the United States to make and enforce law, and be the final arbiter of justice. And if the Constitution or to a lessor extent the laws of a State contradict what is being discussed, well, that's a special case and we know what happens.
2004: part of an international "criminal terrorism investigation"
How can you question it? If true, and revealed openly, innocent people can die.
If false, and cover-up, heads should roll (figuratively).
I don't know about you, however all I can do is trust that the judge that releases, or holds up, the data is honest and accurate.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
So why are we still bothering? And why wasn't it defeated before Nov 2? Why was the attack on Fallujah held up until after Nov.2? No reason, sure, just coincidence.
Vote Quimby!
...people's "memory":
5 6
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/10/17162
You might want to check into his replacement. I know what you're thinking, "He couldn't be right of Ashcroft. That would result in an overflow and a sign error in 2's compliment politics." But while Ashcroft was close to that edge, his successor is closer. He was one of the people who advised the Whitehouse that, among other things, it would be legal under some readings of the Geneva Conventions to employ torture. Which not only means he's a true sophist, but not much of a student of history.
The reason we abide by the Geneva conventions is so that we may expect other to do so. It is the carrot to the stick the predates the conventions, wholesale destruction of population centers as a matter of course, with the intent of inflicting maximum civilian casualties. If we don't use the carrot, and they don't fight a civil war, it's more difficult to justify use of the stick. Which given it's cost in human terms is already difficult to justify, even if defeat and using the stick are the only choices left.
If the government needs something I have in a bank safe deposit box, they go and serve the bank with a warrant. If they need my employee records, they serve my employer with a warrant.
/. blurb). The EFF has no standing. However, even if Indymedia sues, doesn't mean records will be unsealed. There are plenty of cases where revealing specifics will screw an investigation, and in those cases the judge generally keeps the records sealed. They are unsealed at trial, when the case is dropped, or if it drags on for too long.
A warrant is just a legal declaration that allows law enforcement to etner a place they may not normally enter or seize something they may not normally seize. Law enforcement can't just come and take a computer randomly from a company or person. They have to get a warrant from a judge to do so. However the warrant is to enter the premises or seize the goods, so it is presented to the persons concerned. They don't go, present it to you, and ask you to go get the goods, then maybe alter them, before you hand them over.
Also, Indymedia has standing to sue, they didn't however, the EFF did and that was part of the judges ruling (read more than the
Nothing has changed in an information society, except that we'll probably see more seizing of computers to get at data used in criminal activities. It's no different than if you had a physical book with your accounting of illegal activities in storage or at a bank. They'd serve the place that physically had the book to get it. They aren't going to serve you and hope that you give it to them unaltered and intact.
Law enforcement is sometimes done for good reasons?
I know that's hard for a whacked out hippy to understand, since all they know about police is that they want to take their drugs away.
But think about it, WTF would any investigator unseal the records of an ACTIVE INVESTIGATION!!!
If that were the case you may as well legalize murder, because you'll NEVER put anyone away with that sort of disclosure.
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Now, I'm not in favor of letting some al-Qaeda operative escape because we blab about the investigation in open court. I'm also not in favor of letting the government shut down freedom of the press just because it embarasses them. And the problem is this: We can't tell which is going on here.
Neither can the judge. So they go through this little dance, where the judge tries to get them to say enough to let the judge know what's going on, and the government tries to say as little as possible, and they go back and forth several times, and eventually the judge finds out enough to convince him/her.
Ummm...your miss informed. Iraq had ties to orginizations that supported terrorism. Iraq had nothing to do with 911, but it did have ties to those that supported Al Qaeda. Maybe if you done your homework, you wouldn't look like an ass posting this on Slashdot.
Life is not for the lazy.
But why were these servers taken? What grounds did the government have to take them? What information was on them, or allegedly on them, so that was so sensitive to national security that they had to be confiscated? It's not rhetorical, I just want to know what the government said they were looking for.
I've read through all the prior articles and I can't seem to find that information-- all I can find is the legality/illegality of foreign countries (read: US) barging into other countries for 'national security'...
"In a Democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve." -Winston Churchill
Without being a part of the investigation, would it be safe to say you are only familiar with those parts of the incident that have been made public? Is it possible there could be other, non-public parts?
Right.
And they have WMDs too.
Fooled me once, shame on
And you don't in criminal cases. Sorry, but law enforcement can't, and won't, tell you why in a case like this. That's the whole point of having it sealed in the first place. They told the judge, who then decided it was appropriate to keep it sealed. That's how it works, and how it has worked. Real common to see that sort of thing in, say, organized crime busts.
However some people seem a little confused. Sealed isn't a permenant sort of thing here. Just during the investigation. It'll be unsealed either when charges are brought, or when the investigation ends. It'll also be unsealed if the prosecution is dragging it's feet and it gets challenged successfully.
However, in cases like this, you just have to wait. If you really care don't have the typical American week long attention span and actually keep an eye on it. Then in several months when something happens, look in to the reasoning, and if it's bad, challenge it.
However you cannot in fairness (or legally) tell them "You have to tell me beforehand why it's sealed" because that ruins the point. It's just like someone telling you they need to keep something secret (like a supprise party for you on a certian date), and you demanding to know what it is. Well if they told you, that would defeat the point, now wouldn't it?
Anyone remember the raid on Steve Jackson Games? ... the sealed search warrents, computer equipment that was never returned, the reasoning for the raid kept secret.
At least the al qaeda terrorist cells report back to someone that the US claims should be held responsible. The "US Secret Service" terrorist cell on the other hand seem to operate freely in the US without having to report to any higher authority or be held accountable for their illegal activities. Or has Bill Cook and the rest of his cell ever been held in judgement for their actions?
they deserve this? now I have not seen the pics but for gods sake, you are asked to remove a pic of a undercover cop and the web site is responisble, for the moment at least untill it can proven that there is no ligimat reason for the pics to be posted, then you go about posting the pics anywhere you can? uncensored and all. claiming free speech, hoow far do you want this free speech to go? i got a pic of you in a gay breothel do i have the right to post that at the drop of the hat? i know a terrorist that is going to kill a bunch of people tomarrow at 8, i also know he is going to be arrested to night for the right amount ill tell you who so you can get away. how about yelling fire in a room (without a fire) now as much as i am for free speech i am not fascist about those rights. be reasonable people and you wont find your self deserving of an arrest.
It amuses me to see people counterargument the fact that this is a blatant abuse by the government of the freedoms that people enjoy in the west, by pointing out how much worse some people have it in other parts of the world. It simply doesn't make sense.
How is it less a restriction of freedom, because other countries even have LESS freedom? that's like saying you get more hungry, but some are even hungrier then you...So what? Does that fill your stomac? Does it invalidates that you are hungry? No. Neither is getting less freedom any better by noting that others have even less. It doesn't contracdict the issue, and it does nothing to change it. We are not becoming more free because other countries are even less free.
The fact that so many people actually accept the bull that the state says in this regard, is proof of a more fundamental truth about human nature: the fact that, ultimately, for most ppl, freedom isn't the most important, it is security. Contrary to what a great leader once said, most hoi palloi are all to happy to exchange their freedoms for a gain in security, or even an impression of improved security. People want to feel safe, and most don't care all that much about other things, compared to that. They don't care that people get imprisoned without due process, because they are bad ppl and evil terrorists, which should be locked up indefinately - for their (the citizens) protection, of course. they don't care about all the draconian laws that restrict their freedom, because it is portrayed (and seen) as a necessary way to protect themselves.
A best example is a post I read about the iraqi people. Even though it was presented as a counterargument, in fact the poster gave a prime example of the kind of human nature I just described. He claimed iraqi's were getting far more freedom now then under Sadam. Well, yes. But the irony is, more and more people think the period they experience now is far worse then under sadam. In some area's, even to the point that they would rather have him back. Because, for all the atrocities he did (and a lot of people hated and feared him for it), their was one thing the populace recognise that they have completely lost, and that is security and stability. Humans abhor chaos, one could say.
I doubt many in the US will have ever seen all those documentaries that actually show how the populace yearns the order that was present under sadam, even if he was a ruthless dictator. Among the populace, they care a lot less about all the so called freedom they have gained, and a lot more about stability and security. what good does it do that you have the right to protest, if you have no job, no income, bombs explode every day, and you can get shot when making the use of the right to protest?
That's the deeper truth of human nature: by and large, freedom is a a far second or third in the list of most important things. That's why people don't care about freedoms getting trampled, as long as the impression exists it's improving safety and security.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
You are all forgetting the default disclaimers. Maybe there is some law against that, but then again, IANAL.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The Power of Nightmares
now we are greating laws that can justify policing activities as "secret matters of the state."
one step closer to China here we go...
And saw the problem the rest of the world sees and tried their best to change it. Alas, primitive superstitions, known as religions, started America down the road of Facism.
Condemn those who voted for this kind of regime, not those who voted for change away from it.
GOV> You can't ask that it be unsealed. Only rackspace can ask that it be unsealed. That's part of the rule.
EFF> So rackspace can ask that it be unsealed?
GOV> No, there's a catch. Rackspace can't ask that it be unsealed. Rackspace can't discuss it. With anyone.
EFF> Why can't rackspace discuss it?
GOV> We can't tell you. It's sealed.
EFF> So can we get it unsea... oh.
"Didn't they show it to you? Didn't you even make them read it?" "The law says they don't have to." "What law says they don't have to?" "Catch-22"
STFC (study the fucking case). They had a warrant that they served to Rackspace, issued by a judge. A judge just reviewed the case to determine if anything should be unsealed and decided no. Sorry, but they had proper warrants, they just have a court order preventing it from being revealed what they were for.
These are people for whom the US can do nothing right. Never mind the fact that we bailed out Europe (twice) and saved the entire globe from Communism, they still genuinely believe that the US and everything that it does is evil. Even when we are building schools and hospitals in Iraq and providing Iraqi children with toys, footwear, and other basic supplies. To these people the US and everything that we stand for is evil and they are rooting for us to lose. Slashdot is filled with niggerlovers and terrorist supporters. And you aren't going to change their minds with a Slashdot post. It would be nice if you could, but you won't. It's better to just ignore them and their message of hate and move on knowing that the vast majority of us stand for the right thing.
You'll notice I said "practically nothing". Hussein's been a proponent of Palestinian terrorism against Israelis.
The point is whether or not Iraq was a terrorist threat to the United States. It's safe to say that it wasn't, despite the amount of effort that went into proving that it was, as well as the successful end-result of those efforts upon the American population.
Incidentally, can the posters who've marked this post as troll please reply why they've done it, assuming they can under a different account? I'm content to be modded down, but it'd be a lot more interesting to hear a rebuttal.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Simple - this was a threat to those who use the internet to criticise the US government.
There IS no terrorist threat. At least not on the scale insinuated by Bush & his neo-cons.
Re:Iraq DID have ties to Al Qaeda
Let us guess: You believe George W. Bush wouldn't lie to the US public?
You believe GWB's handlers wouldn't lie to him?
You believe Rumsfeld is as honest as the day is long?
BTW, the word is spelled "misinformed." "Miss informed" suggests his unmarried lady friend told him so.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
Anyone who doubts that the US Government is using the threat of terrorism to outstep its legal and ethical authority need look no further than this case. Think about this: it could be YOUR webserver that was confiscated, and your rights would quickly evaporate. It's not much of a stretch for many of the Slashdot crowd.
These are fascist scare tactics, they demonstrate that anything we take for granted as our "rights" are potentially null and void under the Bush regime. We need to send a very clear message that we are not going to stand for it.
Will you wait until you are under an "anti-terrorist" gag order to become involved?
That would give the terrorists everything they needed to circumvent the critical data extracted from simple harmless News servers that the FBI would use to hunt them down since they have been so sucessful at doing so.
Kinda like the Rape of Falluja has been so succesful...at pushing terrorist elsewhere to open up new fronts.
They came for the Mayor, and I did not speak up.
They came for the head of my HOA, and I did not speak up.
They came for my neighbor, and I did not speak up.
They came for my wife, and I did not speak up.
When they came for me, there was nobody to speak up for me.
The moral of the story is when power is abused and you do not speak up against it, it will eventually catch up to you and you cannot cry foul. I applaude the efforts of the organizations that strive to keep the checks and balances in place that are necessary, and rather than cry tinfoil hat maybe you should think about the tables turning and think about what is the next mark on the list.
Ultimate power, corrupts ultimately.
The Indymedia stuff was siezed at the bequest of other countries and in accordance with international treaty obligations. It's pretty funny to see the same Hate Bush crowd that's always whining about how he thumbs his nose at the rest of the world by ignoring international treaties (Kyoto, CTB, ABM, ICC, etc.) is now whining that how didn't flagrantly ignore international law to defend them.
I am ashamed to have you as my fellow citizen.
That is all.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Yes, the writeup ommitted the claim that EFF and Indymedia, the one whose servers were taken don't have the ability to request the unsealing. It also ommitted the claim that the request pertains to international treaty regarding confidentiality. But the government did in fact dismiss the claims on the grounds that, and I quote, " the sealed documents pertain to an ongoing criminal terrorism investigation". That's what the writeup claimed, that's what actually is in the document. So I'm left wondering what exactly your point is regarding "card-carrying tinfoil elitists crying wolf". There's the fucking wolf right there in writing, you can see it too, so this is not "crying wolf" in the allegorical sense but in the factual there-is-actually-a-wolf sense.
The enemies of Democracy are
Did it ever occur to you that terrorists are real? I mean I'm neither defending nor damning, but c'mon. We all know what kind of damage press leaks can do to screw up terrorist investigations.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
Why would the Gubmint really care all that much about Indymedia unless it was a big deal.
For all the chomskyist-libertarians here screaming about the repression of YOUR rights, there is an equal number of people deluded into believing that Indymedia or their Blog is something so momentous that the government felt the need to randomly quash it.
That's kind of the same worldview that alien abductees have, that they themselves are so significant that beings from the Horehead Nebula would hump it all the way over here to examine them.
Sorry but no, more than likely something Indymedia did, or some funding source attached to them did something to raise some red flags. Indymedia PRIDES itself on being subversive and doing tangential things with groups that are on the fringes to begin with. Why would this be any different? It probably is not different.
... and granted, I haven't read the original complaint... But the FBI's response seems to deny that Indymedia would have standing to sue, stating that the parties are solely the U.S. government, the "requesting state" and Rackspace and that nobody else has standing. I'm also not terribly familiar with Indymedia organization, but wouldn't the Urbana-Champaign IMC count as part of Indymedia?
The enemies of Democracy are
Yes!
It does!
The 48% that voted for the folks that have no problem with this?
I thank you for your service.
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
The Iraqis are quite grateful that the vast majority stand for the right thing
There was also no warrant. According to Rackspace, they were issued a subpoena under 17 USC 1728. It was issued by a court without necessarily meeting the same standards set forth for a warrant. The court issued a gag order with the subpoena. Please note the careful use of the word 'court' rather than 'judge'. The subpoena and gag order may have been issued by a court clerk.
I mean the 48% that find this an abhorent monstrosity that will be allowed to continue because Jeebus hates homos and Muslims.
The information could be sealed for any criminal investigation, not just terrorism.
They could just as easily say its a murder or kidnapping investigation.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
If it is true that Indymedia's drives were seized as part of an ongoing investigation then the FBI has tipped their hand, telling the alleged "Criminal Terrorists" that they are under investigation.
So whatever they have to gain from a gag order is null.
It seems that there is some lying going on here to cover another, completely different operation.
Horribly OT, but it bothers me.
Can anyone explain the phrase "by and large" to a non-native english speaker?
I know what it means but the words just don't make sense. It feels awkward reading or even using it.
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
Try http://www.paranoia-live.net/
Report to the Sector Assignment Sector to find a group, or play it online with them via JParanoia. Allen Varney, the principle writer of PARANOIA XP [TM] browses their forums, by the way.
The Unfocused Anxiety Index is now at ELEVENTY BILLION! Playing is even more mandatory than usual, Citizen.
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Disclaimer: I was a member of those forums and a contributor to PARANOIA XP. PARANOIA XP is a trademark of Mongoose Games (at least, I think it's them, I forget who owns what just now).
Well, thanks to the internet, the protesters are taking pictures of the troublemakers and they're sticking up the pictures and saying 'Who the fuck is this person breaking this car window? If anyone knows who this is, tell us.'.
Well...they're undercover cops. Duh. Everyone suspected that, but that's what all this racket is about.
Logically, it makes no sense, if you've infiltrated an organization, and they post pictures of stuff, to say 'Hey, that's our undercover cops! Take those pictures down!'. That's just crazy. If they don't know they're undercover cops, don't tell them. If they do know, well, you're screwed anyway, pull them back in.
But these undercover cops are there to cause problems so the police can escalate the force used against the protesters. Having their faces plastered around is likely to be rather bad PR.
Except, of course, the traditional news is completely ignoring this.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Terrorism is the practice of political influence of the people through spreading fear in the media. IndyMedia spreads fear of the state in the media, to influence people to change the state. They are terrorists. When you consider that terrorism is the media action, derived from more or less scary actual events described in the media, it is simply clear that they are terrorists. However, when you consider the vast legitimate, necessary messages of fear when actually scary events occur and are described accurately, terrorism itself begins to take on some nuance. When the stock market crashes, the Wall Street Journal report of the crisis is terrorism, but we need it just the same. Abusing terms like "terrorism", especially to control the media, is a greater terrorism, with no redeeming virtues. These counterterrorists are much more serious terrorist threats than a free press.
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make install -not war
Didn't anyone notice that the motion to unseal was denied because the movants did not have the legal standing to file such a motion? Moreover, did anyone notice that unsealing the document would break international treaty? Granted that if those two reasons weren't there I am quite certain that the third would still be upheld, however, it's sad that so many people overlooked those.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
nmsfw
http://www.ucimc.org/feature/display/21702/index.p hp
Here are some earlier related stories:
http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display_any/21273
http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display_any/20764
You know what? That's just too damn bad for the police then! This is America, where we're supposed to be FREE! I would gladly trade another 3000 lives for that freedom, even if it includes my own! But I'll be DAMNED if I'll let this country turn into a police state while I'm still around!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Ironically, in a non-free format (RAR) which cannot, in this case, be extracted by an free tools. All it is is 3 JPEGs. What was wrong with tar or zip?
Rich.
libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Watch your newspeak! If the thought police notices you you're good for 5 year of rehab at the minister of love!!
The way to say it is "People who interfer with the press job of manufacturing consent for the war are non-citizens anyway, let's lock them without due process or warning their family as illegal combatants".
Or "People who cost a single american job are enemies of the state's right to pollute enough to kill one american life instead".
Just remember not to mention deaths in other countries due to pollution, global warming, depleted uranium, or the vaccine companie's immunity from lawsuits due to excessive use of mercury as attached to the Homeland security bill. The three-letter acronyms hate it when you do that.
And by the way. The minister of truth has missed one here:
The first church of common sense:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/
So go close it already! AND AVENGE THE CRUSADERS!!!
Microsoft is pure dog-ma. FreeBSD is pure cat-ma.
It's very important to the party in power (but not the government or citizens) to protect our terrorists against other terrorists. Indy media are interfering with manufacturing consent!
Microsoft is pure dog-ma. FreeBSD is pure cat-ma.
As far as Communism is concerned, it merely underwent some transformations and is alive and well, last time seen spending lavishly in China while sipping Martinis.0 4/countryratings/china.htm
I dunno what your smoking, but I want some of it. Now before you go about praising China to be some great utopia, maybe you should do some reading. It's OK, just a *little*. Here, let me help you help yourself with a provided link.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/20
Life is not for the lazy.
1- Pass a bad, vague law about terrorism in other nations (and NOT terrorism by our nation; that's counterterrorism).
Optionnal: if after a terrorist event, attach last minute "immunity from lawsuits for bad vaccines" clause to homeland security bill to protect vaccines companies that generously donated for reelection.
2- Abuse vague new laws on every nonterrorist case. Keep a few (probably innocent) axe-of-evil citizens in jail without trial or even questionning them about *anything* for good measure; this "validates" the antiterrorism laws in the warped mind of CNN.
3- When the courts puts the bad parts of the bad law in the shredder until only the name of the law remains, just make another vague, bad law. Nominate some more extreme-right supreme court judges so you don't have to make laws too often.
Optional: take a month's vacation to avoid being in contact with official intelligence reports. This official vacations has nothing to do with coordonating false terrorist events and carlyle group profits together, of course!
4- Forge photos of "liberating Irak" to get reelected (see link in my
5- Be reminded to do the same with elections. Abuse until the courts say what's a bad voting machine, then use another bad voting machine. Make sure there is a chance in 10000000000000000000000 that the exit polls are that far apart from the voting so it stays "credible". Except for all the things CNN didn't mention.
6- ???
7- Profit! (Or "avenge the Xtian crusaders", or whatever)
Microsoft is pure dog-ma. FreeBSD is pure cat-ma.
Im sorry, but you are wrong. All of this is being orchestrated to secure the American lifestyle.
Peak oil hits in 2005. This is not my argument, but that of the bush administration and dick cheney himself, not to mention countless independant studies, including that of the students of the guy who predicted the 1970s oil crash.
In case you havnt noticed, were in the middle of WW3, and its about securing oil.
Without oil, we lose more then just SUVs. We lose everything made from plastic as well. Try to wrap your head around that one.
Not to mention that this country LIVES on the back of the trucking industry, and if we want to feed the nation, we need oil. Otherwise millions of americans will starve, as the food simply wont get to them.
Also, the US' plan for peak oil has been the same since then 1970s.
A) Find oil wherever we can and take it
B) Kill anyone that gets in our way
To stop this we need to do 2 critical things.
1) Develop alternative energies
2) Change the american lifestyle.
Well, good luck with #2. Denying americans ANYTHING makes them pissy. We are worldpigs, and will continue to be so as long as we can. We all live like kings, even those who live in the ghetto still get food, shelter, soft beds, and working showers. It is an anomoly for so many people to live so well.
and #1? Well, heres a factoid for you. Retrofitting the nation for alternative fuels is impossible. Why?
When it comes to oil, for every 1 unit of energy we put into getting oil, we get 100 back. 100. Thats unbelievable. Think about how much effort and energy we spend on getting oil.
Biodiesel? Which many are claiming will save america, is a farse. For every 1 unit of energy we put into getting biodiesel, we get 3 back. 3.
In short, we are screwed, and you should buy a bike and have a vegetable garden.
I implore everyone to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. I dont want anyone to take what I say at face value. Investigate it yourself.
Me? I think we have until around thanksgiving 2005. If you arnt out of debt, healthy, and ready to work the fields by then, then you are in big, big trouble. (Or a millionare, in which case youll be able to afford the normal life for at least a few years.)
Strangely, I've never heard of arabs, muslims, or al-quaeda protesting the WTO or world bank. I doubt that they, or any other terrorist organization (Timothy McVeigh gun nuts, Waco-ites, Japanese death cults, etc) has been involved in this.
Christ, Dubya himself doesn't persecute his own protesters nearly as much as the WTO does.
For those that haven't read of him, Vannu was only recently released from an 18 year sentence as punishment for providing hard evidence to the west of an illegal middle east nuclear weapons progam. Though he has been a nominee for the Nobel Peace price every year from 1988 to 2004, he has not been allowed to speak with foreigners or reporters.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
I JUST FINISHED reading this book (any relation to Cowboy Neal?) and now here's a perfect example of why a data haven is so important.
B) Kill anyone that gets in our way
While I agree with you, these are only some of the components of the mosaic of motivations and goals of the present US administration. Bush understands oil well, but at the same time he and his crew are hate-filled megalomaniacs. While Hitler really believed that expansion East was crutial for his Third Reich to become powerful economically, his disdain and hatred of Slavs and Jews was a core element of that plan. The same is true of Bush. While an imperial power struggle to secure oil and energy sources is on the mind of some neocons, their disdain and hatered of Arabs and love for Israel is also the heart of their actions.
I'm particularlly fond of the claim that Indymedia is not an involved party and thus cannot file this motion. That's insane. Apparently just because it was their servers that were taken it doesn't mean that they have any standing.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
What was wrong with 3 separate files?
Zip won't comprss JPEGs substantially, so why bother?
(Yup, archivers would be OK, and zip can be just an archiver, but one substantially less capable than tar.)
However, they've already played the terrorism card.
To late to put it back in their hand, everyone else has seen it.
And now they should _justify_ it.
FP.
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
If you arent out of debt, healthy, and ready to work the fields by then, then you are in big, big trouble.
Bring it the fuck on.
You should run for president! :-)
;-)
Or make a book: "How to stop a war in 4 easy steps."
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---