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Downhillbattle.org Bounty For P2P Gaim Plug-in
thecombatwombat writes "Music activism site Downhillbattle.org has started a fund to pay a bounty on a peer-to-peer plugin for Gaim. With new laws threatening peer-to-peer, Downhill Battle thinks this is the future. Regardless, it's an interesting funding of open source."
I hope it doesn't bring down GAIM.
Once again, how people use a tool shouldn't affect the legitimacy of the said tool, but it's RIAA we're talking about here.
BitTorrent is pretty concerned when more and more pirates are using it to illegally distribute software, not that BitTorrent is an illegal tool, but you just don't want the trouble of lawsuit, and not to mention you're not guaranteed innocence in court (if your bank account can last that long).
So personally, I don't think changing the "method" is going to help anything.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
and ran across Grouper. Only for Windows, but it does almost exactly what these folks want.
I doubt that Gaim would be held responsible for a third party plugin that allowed it to do file sharing. Thats like suing the maker of Windows because it runs BitTorrent.
Raised as of Nov 13, 6:30am: $354
Raised as of Nov 15, 6:30am: $359
Cost of bandwidth usage after being Slashdotted: Priceless
There is no controversy. Technology is not illegal. Uses of it are. People like etree make such a mockery of the RIAA's claims that filesharing is only used for evil that it's not even funny. Perhaps the RIAA is pissed off that so many bands are content with giving their music away for absolutely free.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
If you're looking for the buddy to buddies of buddies, why not just use WASTE? Doesn't take down GAIM with it and it makes a nice little secure private network.
Perhaps if GAIM had a list of plugins that it officially supported, it would have solid footing for saying that this plugin was off the reservation, so to speak.
I know they don't officially support any of these third party plugins, but in a way similar to microsoft warning you before you install third party hardware drivers, gaim could warn you that it's an unreviewed unsuported plugin? Just a thought.
I think then even the dumbest civil court judge would be able to understand that GAIM isn't a part of this p2p shennanigan.
Why would they want to do something that could possibly bring down gaim? its like painting a target on it...
...fairly stupid. Not only is this a mix of two seperate things, but why would making a plugin for GAIM do anything? It's the same thing for people who want to merge WASTE with Miranda or GAIM. I do fine with my P2P seperate from my IM, and I don't WANT P2P with my AIM, etc. It's not going to help stop the RIAA either, they will just go after people using the plugin. I'll take mine seperate (and secure as in darknet) thank you.
WASTE - The Secure P2P
I dont think such would be hard to do judging by the open-ness of gaim. From what Ive seen in the past, gaim plug-ins are very possible.
do you realy want your friends (especially girls) browseing through your porn??? will they ever look at you the same way again. If you have a huge stash of bart and lisa cartoon porn?
Not smart... Public statements like this will rile things up too much. They'll end up shooting themselves in the foot by pushing the government and the RIAA like that.
It's like over-vaccinating diseases: While it solves a problem at hand, the disease evolves because of it, possibly into something really bad.
Look at the DMCA: that is drastic, malevolent evolution if I could ever spot it.
No, no... I think that the way it's been since Napster is just fine: Slow, steady activisim that pushes authority in the correct direction without unnecessary vigor.
-ubuntu others as you would have others ubuntu you.
From the requirments part of the bounty article:
They were probably talking about WASTE when they mentioned this. My friends and I tried it for a while. It was too complex to set up and maintain. My friends need simpler point and click installation. Firewalls gave a lot of greif, too.
I have, however, gotten several of my friends to switch to GAIM after they've realized how crappy and bloated MSN messenger is. I hope something useful can come out of this.
With Bit Torrent creating 35% of the Net's traffic, is it really time to declare it dying, and in need of a successor?
The nice thing about Bit Torrent that Napster and Kazaa never had going for it, is that legitimate companies are already using it to distribute their product. Blizzard, Mandrake, and others with large applications that geeks primarily download.
While adding P2P to Gaim may look important, Bit Torrent is the wave of the next few years.
If someone is designing a Gaim P2P, make sure sharing a file with a contact is as simple as MSN where you drag the file to the chat window, but have it resume broken transfers, etc.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
But for $500, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. I mean let us, for the moment, ignore the other arguments. Personally it's going to take more money than that to make me a target of the RIAA.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
I see many uses for this, but it shouldent be seen as a compeditor against large P2P networks. This would be great if you were a group of students working on a project, and clicked a button and saw a list of project related files on your group's computers, or even had access to their music. I dont think this is meant as a replacement for large-scale Networks like eDonky or GNUTella(2). Keep up good work and PLEASE dont focous on illagel sharing of files, rather on colaboration and efficency of groups. [redundant] Do whatever to keep RIAA out of this[/redundant]
If you have a huge stash of Bart and Lisa cartoon porn, it's fairly safe to say that you probably don't have friends in the first place.
If you're looking for a good chat client w/integrated file sharing goodness, look no further than BeShare. :)
My Systems
How many of us actually TRUST everyone on our buddy lists? Hell, I keep my enemies on my buddy list.
Also, this proposal doesn't answer that lingering question of what happens when a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend is an RIAA employee.
Thats like suing the maker of Windows because it runs BitTorrent.
What a great idea - why hasn't RIAA thought of that?
Sticking your head in the sand is an interesting solution to a problem that is currently being dealt with by content distributors, internet providers, and producers of content.
Yes, P2P itself is legal. To think there is no controversy over its use is naive. Software manufacturers include LENGTHY cd keys and broken audio tracks on CDs in attempts to prevent illicit reproduction of their products. Movies are being increasingly traded across bittorrent, gnutella, and other p2p services. Music is not the only area where there are legal problems, it's just the one where the content distributor is actively targetting those who swap its product.
To contaminate pieces of software (e.g. Gaim or Firefox) which are open source and provide a real service to a lot of us, with all the problems currently associated with p2p would be ill advised.
I agree, you can get some really good music in other ways than through the RIAA, but you have to be a realist (rare on Slashdot, I know) and see that mixing well-intended software with controversial software contaminates the former.
the IM services (AOL, we're looking at you) will be coerced into more aggressive Gaim-blocking in fairly short order. This will result in your loser friends that you can't get to use GPG or gaim-encryption complaining that it doesn't work (they're too lazy to get the update the Gaim people put out within 3 hours of the block, remember) and forgetting the whole idea. Good idea in theory, but you have to convert your friends to Jabber at the same time.
-insert a witty something-
It's not what the judge understands, it's more of how much the RIAA prolongs the legal battle. The RIAA has deep pockets and can outlast any competitor and in the end, you give up and let the RIAA win.
However, I wanted to point out a way you can help the fight that's not just defensive, but offensive. Let's go after the people in congress who make this sort of thing necessary. Head on over to IPac and sign the petition. Donate. Help elect representatives and senators that understand our issues, and will fight on our side, not the side of the RIAA and MPAA.
"If only they could both lose"
Secure filesharing for everyone
Making a program that only geeks can use won't cut it. The goal, after all, is to keep people out of jail. What's great about integrating filesharing into an IM client is that the interface will be familiar and non-threatening to everyone. And the interface itself explains the security advantages of the program in simple terms: you share with friends.
[my emphasis]
The whole idea DownhillBattle proposes is predicated on the assumption that you can trust everyone on your friends list.
If friendster has taught me anything, it's that the word "friend" is used pretty loosely by most people online.
Why don't you go out and physically borrow the CD from a friend. Or (god help us) buy it for yourselves - even use iTunes, it's cheap! I've never used GAIM, but I'd hate to see it go down the toilet because of this!
~Ilyanep
To get message, take amount of carrier pigeons at each stage mod 2. Then decode binary.
One of the things that bothers me about search based networks (bittorrent, eDonkey, Gnutella, Kazaa, napster, etc.) is that you already have to know what you're looking for before you find it. Anything that requires you to type a search query to find a music file is useless as a tool for serendipitous "surfing" that allows you to stumble on new music.
This problem partially undercuts a major argument of file sharing proponents- that file sharing exposes people to music that they wouldn't have considered buying before.
If I can have a "buddy list" of people whose music libraries you can casually browse through, I'll be much more likely to experiment with new music because there'll be less fear of encountering music that 5u><0r5. I understand there is already some filesharing software that offers this functionality, but bundling it with a IM application that people already use heavily and like to leave open as much as possible is a good way to build a user base fast. In fact, I can see Joe User types switching from AIM to GAIM once they find out it has secure file sharing capabilities.
Also, if communities like AudioScrobbler or MusicMobs could be integrated into GAIM, it would extend its use to being a tool for finding people who have similar music interests that you can add to your buddy list.
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
I think this sort of integration takes a neutral position, actually. With encryption and private trading groups, the RIAA has to go a LOT further to stop it. They need to start doing more than connecting to a tracker and getting a list of IPs and send out an automated e-mail. Maybe then people will see how silly the RIAA has become.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Anyone here remember DirectConnect? I don't have a link handy but it is *exactly* what they are suggesting here. A small closed network of only "trusted" members. The problem with this, and why very few people still use DirectConnect is that the files are much easer to trace to people.
Let's say I'm using bit torrent and I forget to turn on my IP blocker, If RIAA finds me downloading something they don't like then they have my IP address, which changes daily. They would have to go through all the legal troubles of filing a John Doe suit, and subpoena my DSL company for my information, assuming they even keep records of what customer has what IP at what time.
If this were integrated into GAIM then anyone who knows how to check the "look at profile" thingy on gaim could see information about myself that I wouldn't really want then to find that easy. This is exactly what killed of DirectConnect back in the day.
(This is of course assuming I ever download something other than anime over bit torrent)
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
Well, they would if the fight ever happened. Only their lawyers would win.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Then I think once people get the idea that open source is good, they'll look over to OpenOffice. However, that won't happen until there is near perfect .doc compatibility.
Or until Microsoft introduces the even more restrictive Licensing 7.0.
then the switch to Linux isn't much of a big deal since they can use the same programs.
Including the same drivers? I'd use Linux if only it supported my scanner (Microtek Scanmaker 4800 family, listed as unsupported in SANE) and a couple other pieces of hardware. Last time I downloaded and tried Knoppix, it threw my Radeon 9000 video card into unaccelerated VESA fallback mode, which I don't find comfortable even for 2D apps such as OpenOffice.org.
The RIAA has deep pockets and can outlast any competitor
Not if EFF decides to take the case and gets a summary judgment in favor of the party it's defending, as in the case of MGM v. Grokster. A summary judgment decides solely on the question of law, interpreting any disputed facts as favorable to the other side.
In Change the Law I discuss the constitutional basis of copyright law in the US, and suggests a number of steps you can take to bring about much needed copyright reform. The steps range from speaking out to practicing civil disobedience.
There are over sixty million people using p2p networks in the US. That's more than voted for George Bush in 2000. That's enough people to bring about change, if you can work together effectively.
My article has been read by over six hundred thousand people so far but I'd like to see all sixty million American p2p users read it by the time of the 2006 midterm elections. I'd like to see copyright reform become a hotbutton issue in the next election.
If you're sad that Kerry lost November 2nd, consider that Kerry voted for the DMCA. Both the Democratic and Republican parties are on the side of the RIAA and MPAA. They're on the side of the big-money donors after all. That needs to change.
There are very few elected officials who feel that the DMCA is any sort of problem. They think it's the solution. Our elected officials view people who share files as the problem.
If you feel as I do that more people need to read my article, you can help by linking to it from your website, weblog or from message boards.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Excellent point. It's also worth mentioning that Etree's got(SWAG) the largest legal BT portal on the 'net.
After reading through those links, I actually didn't see anything that stated that Gaim supports this idea. What do they think about this initiative?
- dshaw
PS: If I missed it, please point it out.
I took a peek at downhillbattle.org and some of the flyers they have available in PDF. The extent of my visit was pretty cursory, but I noticed the flyer where the dude has the gun in his mouth and one of the things it says:
Filesharing and CD-Burning have pushed the Big 5 to the brink of extinction. Sales down 30% in 3 years.
I thought everybody has been hooting and hollaring about how P2P etc has nothing to do with the demise of the record industries, and their downfall was simply a result of crappy music, less demand, blah blah blah. A lot of people would compare cd-burning/p2p to the old days of a friend borrowing a tape and recording a few songs. This seems like people are claiming that they are trying to destroy these companies, instead of harmless filesharing. It seems like it is their intention. Seems a little inconsistent to me.
When you download a track, you rate it according to your tastes. iRATE's server then compares your ratings to those of other people, and sends you music you're likely to enjoy, while avoiding music you will dislike. This process is known as "collaborative filtering".
iRATE is nearing its 0.4 release, which will be much improved over its current 0.3 release. If you'd like to contribute to its development, visit iRATE's sourceforge page.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Putting all discussion of what this could do to GAIM aside, I'm not sure if downhillbattle.org really considered if this could be done. I run DoorManBot on AIM, so I've run into many problems which will prevent them from being able to do this.
The issue is that on a network such as AIM, clients talk only to the AIM servers, not to each other, leaving no room for behind-the-protocol interactions between clients.
This means that the plug-in would need to be able to identify buddies also using the plug-in through something such as a tag in the user's profile; not the cleanest thing to do, though still doable.
Now comes the biggest problem. How will the plug-in communicate with others to do searches? Inter-client communications can only be done via the basic IMs that are sent between users. This would mean a new IM popping up every time one of your buddies decides to search for a song. Even if the search was hidden inside invisible tags, the IM would still need to present itself. This alone, I believe, would drive off any potential users.
Unfortunately, MSN and Yahoo! are just as bad as AIM in this respect, leaving any potential plug-in to work only with a different protocol. But with that, the user base is lost, destroying the purpose of the plug-in in the first place. A great idea, but sadly without hope.
Send offline messages on AIM with DoorManBot
Having it as a plugin and trying to blame GAIM for it is the same as having kazaa installed and blaming microsoft because windows allows it to be installed. I know they would figure out a way to blame gaim and get them shut them down somehow though.
http://seanism.com/
Perhaps the RIAA is pissed off that so [dead.net] many [phish.com] bands [mule.net] are content with giving their music away for absolutely free.
When nobody wants to hear your music, you have little choice.
If you're looking for the buddy to buddies of buddies, why not just use WASTE? Doesn't take down GAIM with it and it makes a nice little secure private network.
Why not make a WASTE plugin for Gaim? That's what I have wanted ever since I first heard of WASTE. WASTE file transfers actually work. And they are reasonably secure. And they allow for browsing and transfering of files if the other person isn't there to attend to his computer. Regardless if I use Jabber, Yahoo!, MSN, or AOL, file transfers rarely, if ever, work. (Due to NAT, proxy, and other firewall related issues. But magically, my friends and I are always able to get WASTE transfers to work.)
Hahaha. You're a funny character. Perhaps you should do research before you speak. The Grateful Dead are arguably the single most successful touring band in history and Phish is probably the most successful touring band of the last 10 years. Is it a coincidence that neither of the bands had a lot radio airplay and in Phish's case, basically no exposure on MTV? No. Their fanbase does not depend on coventional music distribution channels. Free distribution of recordings is the single greatest reason for the bands' success. Media recognition - zero, Album sales - mediocre, Tickets sold - outrageous. Oh and in the world of front row seats costing hundreds of dollars, Phish had one set price for all seats, offering mail order presales to fans before Ticketmaster got their shot.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
It's the "human shield" theory of software development. If P2P features are incorporated into lots of "innocent" software, then the INDUCE act becomes a sort of doomsday device -- it can only stop P2P by stopping the entire software industry.
Reminds me of
Nullsoft's WASTE which didn't interest me much back when it came out but I am becomming more and more curious as time goes on. I wonder if someone could integrate it with GAIM.
Here's my plug-in:
:)
>OMG do U have the new Brittney trax??!?!
>YEAH!!!! It R0X0RS!!!! What's UR email?
And then you email your buddy the MP3. The problem with file sharing as a method of mass-distributing illegally duplicated copyrighted content is the same problem pirate radio has: there's no particular technical challenge in generating a pirate signal; but everything that makes a radio signal particularly useful (stays in one spot on the band, is strong, runs on a regular schedule) makes it easy to get caught. Likewise, anything that makes it easy for strangers to locate a particular illegally duplicated tune available for distribution makes it easy for copyright holders or their legal representatives to locate and prosecute the perpetrators. Napster, in other words, painted a big old target on their foreheads and surprise surprise.
In other news, you know, the RIAA is not the Death Star. As far as I know they have not managed to shut down a single legitimate file sharing application. They can't even shut down Kazaa. Kazaa is using the recent court opinion as an advertising strategy for their product (to whit, "having Kazaa is 100% legal").
Let me get this straight. Music sharing isn't actually hurting the music industry, maybe it's even helping them, but you should do as much of it as possible because it will bring down the evil music monopoly and then we'll be living in paradise, so don't buy a CD because it won't really help any artist, just download their copyrighted material for free so that you help end the evil empire of the RIAA after which we won't continue to just freely distribute whatever we want to through this massive network of unregulated, uncontrollable digital distribution we've created, instead somehow all the artists will be fairly compensated, I think by some kind of magical money fairy that flies right out of my ass. The whole premise of downward battle is on crack. If you don't like the pusher, don't buy the product. It's that simple, or else come out and simple own up to the fact that you want unlimited access to copyrighted material without having to play by the rules or face any consequences of breaking the law - a stance I don't agree with (and think is fairly impossible) but can at least somewhat respect for honesty. Pretending that you're somehow contributing to "change" because you get illegal bootlegs of major label product for free is ridiculous.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
It's too bad, it could've been great
Sounds like IRC to me. IRC has been around for a zillion years, and there are people running "walled garden" IRC servers all over the place. They run on a strictly "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Don't ask about them, because they won't tell you how to get onto it. The first rule about private IRC servers is that you don't talk about private IRC servers...oops...^_^;
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
We all know how well the "friends helping friends" mentality helped them out against the RIAA and "Greater Good" (tm)(r)(patent pending).
Hell, as long as you develop (the GAIM plug in) out of the US there's not a damn thing the US can do (short of invading whatever nations are hosting the files and executables, which with four more years of Bush I could defiantly see the US doing).
It's getting to the point here in the US that if I want to be in any sector of the IT industry (outsourcing aside) I won't be able to stay in the US cause everything will be illegal. I would almost put 100 dollars down on the US implementing a firewall, bigger and better than China. Now that's a scary though!
Please EU, Russia, China, and the nations of the world BOYCOTT the US. Refuse to deal with us so the pro-corporate, religious whacko's that are in control of our nation will wake up!
All the RIAA would need to do to bring this down is offer a bounty, say $20 or $50, for people to invite them to some of the larger rings. Boom, down it goes. It sounds like your goal here is that it will keep the RIAA out because no one is friends with the RIAA. However, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
what would be really cool is if you could implement bit torrent as the method of P2P sharing that the GAIM plug in would use. Any link you send to a friend would be a link to the tracker, and the program would start UL/DLing the file depending on how many people need the file. Thus you get the benefit of Bit Torrent, namely, the ability for many people to download a file very fast.
because WASTE networks dont scale very well.
these people are trying to create, in effect, one giant network where each node belonges to a (relatively) trusted incividual.
like a P2P equivalent of orkut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_P2P
Usable, anonymous P2P is what everyone is waiting for. The catch is that none of the clients are fast enough, nor do they have a large enough user base. Instead of this scheme, downhillbattle.org should have written an article comparing these developing stars.
Right now, I would be oh so happy if Gaim just supported file transfers period. MSN Specifically. All my friends use MSN, and whenever they're like, "Hey, let me send you a picture!" I'm like, "Hey, let me switch Operating Systems!" Last I checked, Gaim did not support file transfers on MSN, but they said it is possible and would get around to it in the future. If this has changed, then I blame SuSE since their Gaim package is still stuck on version 0.75 and I am too lazy to compile my own.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exaggerat ion
by Aimster?
t m
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question587.h
http://www.riaa.com/news/filings/aimster.asp
i can't remember if Aimster actually lost or just ran out of money, but the end result was the same.
"People like etree make such a mockery of the RIAA's claims that filesharing is only used for evil that it's not even funny."
Interesting... do you have a citation for RIAA claiming that file sharing is only used for evil? I can imagine (and vaguely remember) them saying something to the effect of 90% of Kazaa traffic being unauthorized copyrighted stuff (and I think they'd be right) but have they made a statement that encompasses a totally different type of service, like etree?
It would be great to see a link. Unfortunately I think you may be putting words in the RIAA's mouth or using a tactic called a straw man, defined as mischaracterizing your opponent's position so that it can be torn down easily.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
A response has shown up on downhillbattle, it covers some of the points people have talked about in this thread.
because WASTE networks dont scale very well.
these people are trying to create, in effect, one giant network where each node belonges to a (relatively) trusted incividual.
I see. Personally I would rather just have a WASTE network with the people on my Budd List who also have the would-be Gaim WASTE plugin. I don't want or need to transfer files with strangers. Though options ARE good. Too bad we can't accommodate both.
Downhill Battle has responded to some of the questions raised in this thread. This question and forum session proves that discussion makes things clearer.
It seems to me that those for the gaim filesharing project agree to some extent about reforming the music industry and those who write extremely rhetorical questions against the project do not share the proactive sentiments of Downhill Battle's activism, which is totally fine. On a fundamental level though, there will be small-scale sharing as well as large-scale sharing and the two do not conflict, while the small-scale could chip away at the major labels in a different way than the large-scale sharing.
If you don't get to the end of their post about this, their plug for their new slashdot site is actually worthwhile, go to The Regular.
What? GTK ugly?
;)
But I LIKE it! What's wrong with GTK? It's not ugly..
I like having Gaim, running the Bluecurve theme (which I like muchly), on my win box, my win box that runs bblean. Adds a little flaovr to boring old windows.
Slashdot - where to disagree, is to be a troll
If you don't like your IM client sticking out in windows...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Currently, the two big cases are:
:-D
1) Napster
2) Kazaa
Both were commercial entities. This draws fire from those who don't want them around.
But what can you do about bittorrent? Not much. You can attack the tracker websites that seem to not care what's being shared with them. And that's it.
Similarly, I don't see how adding a P2P client in GAIM is a problem.
I mean, you already have file send/receive in most IM clients. This is just a more flexible version of this.
Just say it's for sharing vCards!
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I assure you he is NOT an employee of Nullsoft. It wouldn't be fair to call it _his_ software.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
... never mind that it's easier to just set up an isolated IRC server and make everone connect directly than it is trying to administrate / get one to participate in a public net.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Have you seen the amount of money the lawyers get out of these lawsuits?
Trust me, no matter who "wins" they both lose -- and the lawyers win.
Another fine example of the slashdot party line in action -- what "we" do is justified, what "they" do is villified.
Admit it, piracy for the sake of piracy is ok. Just don't mask it under the guise of "rights."
All these arguements over copyright infringement annoy me. There's always some dudes arguing how its just "stealing"... Well yes, it is. But I still wasn't gonna go out and buy these CD's. I was not ever going to go to the theatre to see that movie either. Honestly, prior to the digital age, I would simply shoplift
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein
The description is talking about downloading files directly for the person who is sharing the file. Thus the max speed you can download is that person's upload speed. Here (in Belgium) and as far as I know most of the other countries the ISP's limit upload speed at a factor of the download speed.
A typical cable connection is 128Kbps up/10Mbps down , ADSL is 128Kbps up as well. This would result in tremendously slow downloads.
The nice part of those public P2P networks is that you download pieces of a file from multiple persons thus bundling all those small upload pipes into one big one!
So if they implement this they should add the functionality to download from multiple sources at once too.
sure, but 12-17 year olds could not have voted anyway
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Copyright law, or something like it, existed in what is called "common law" before America was an independent nation. Common law, in England, going back hundreds and hundreds of years, the "common sense" notion that just because something isn't a physical object, doesn't mean that it can't have some kind of ownership.
The concept of copyright has existed way, way before there were any copyright laws, way, way before America even existed as a country. It's at such a basic level that you can't really get away from it.
What should be done is that the price of music and the price of DVD's should be brought down - those prices are fixed - like another poster pointed out some time ago - these entertainment companies behave like a cartel - the music is overpriced, the movies are overpriced, and it's simply assumed that in order for a movie to be made hundreds of millions of dollars need to be spent to make it - this prevents newer artists from getting into the game... it prevents talented people from expressing themselves,
We should probably redefine the concept that a production, and hence the final product, needs to be expensive in order for it to be considered a quality work of art. That's one problem. If a movie can be made for say, 10 million dollars, and the DVD can be sold for, say $8.99 - giving a previously unknown artist a chance to express herself - then we would be headed in the right direction. It's not copyright's fault that Hollywood is a mess.
Other things that probably need to be questioned are things like the connection between p2p applications and advertising - the idea that a company (like Napster or Kazaa) turns a profit, or makes some kind of revenue stream from advertising on its site or on its products - if you pay careful attention, you will see that this does in fact matter to prosecutors.
Also, perhaps the idea of what a PC (Microsoft) should really be for. Is it a valid thing to buy a PC so that, amongst other reasons, you can fileshare? For instance, not because you are "interested" in music and a big fan and want to learn more about your favorite artists and discuss different things about different artists with your friends (e-mailing an mp3 to a friend to "sample" an album or discuss some aspect of it); not because you have a hobby such as collecting live shows from Dave Matthews and other bands that encourage trading - what I mean is the concept of file-sharing, using an application produced by a software company that generates a revenue stream, by a company that wants as many people to use their software as possible (which increases the selection), I mean using these things as some kind of consideration when purchasing a computer. This needs to be questioned. Is this what computers should be for?
Sorry, but that article makes no sense to me whatsoever. You could just argue that people should be able to share files - this is more or less true anyway, at least in an international sense - but to argue that for-profit companies should be able to generate a revenue stream and market themselves to tens of millions of people by offering a service that has the SOLE purpose (more or less) of enabling the sharing of copyright-infringing files doesn't do anyone a favor. I don't think BT fits this critera, actually, with BT you would have to focus on the torrents (the files) themselves - anyone who makes those available.
Unfortunately, the only way for a legislature to deal with filesharing in a fashion that even remotely accomplishes what you suggest is to pay no attention to it. You can't justify it as a "legitimate" industry around which to build a company - I mean seriously - you CAN'T justify it as a "legitimate" industry - all you can do is just sort of not pay attention to it. If the US and other countries are agressive about pursuing it as an injustice, then you can't stop them from doing that by arguing that copyright is irrelevant. The only argument, I think, that you can really make is that they shouldn't pursue it as agressively. But as long as there are companies out there that generate an advertising revenue stream by providing software programs that "enable copyright infringement" - whatever that means, there will be easy and big targets to pursue.
Wasnt able to RTFA, and I'm curious why they think having P2P plugins to a *chat* client is 'the future'..
Sounds more like bloat to me then anything 'great'.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Bittorrent is actually, quite unlike the other file networks out there, eminently tracable. The person who put up the torrent is well known, all of the people who download from that torrent is tracked... if there were any protocol that were "asking for it," it's bittorrent.
The ______ Agenda
GAIM seems to be moving in the wrong direction with this... Their user base would double if they just got direct-connects and file transfers to work (all the time!).. I know AOL probably blocks these things from happening (otherwise it would already work), but I just like stating the obvious
For those who saw the Bloom County strip back in the 80's where Sean Pean hit a reporter, who to sue?
1. Sean Pean, no he might come back to hit you.
2. Madonna, no, she is even crazier than Sean.
3. The photograper who took the picture and caused you to be hit, No, he is broke. NEVER SUE POOR PEOPLE.
4. The Nikon Camera Corporation...YES! They have lots of money and should of had a warning label on the product warning not to take photos of irate celeberaties.
Rule number one in law, is sue the person who has the most money. So yes, lets look at the offenders.
1. BitTorrent - broke
2. Torrentractor.com - broke
3. Microsoft - 40 billon PLUS in liquid assets.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
vi +
If you want to play devil's advocate, that's fine. The RIAA certainly intimates their view that filesharing needs to be stopped, period. The Induce Act (S.2560) would potentially make hardware or software that can aid in infringing copyright illegal. If the Induce Act passed, a complaint such as this could be filed against anyone who makes something that aids in copyright infringement. What's the RIAA's position on the Induce Act you ask? The "RIAA Applauds Senate 'Inducement' Legislation." Those are the RIAA's words, not mine. Take it as you will.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Thank you for your reply. I think two things are well-established:
However, this does not mean that the RIAA wants to sue Apple or CNet. In this particular case, for example, I'm sure the RIAA loves Apple, because their iTunes store is helping them make tons of cash. Apple "plays nice": at the same time that they offer an iPod (a device that can hold authorized as well as unauthorized content), they have invested millions into a platform for selling authorized content.
My guess is that the RIAA has in mind for its first target the same people that the drafters have in mind: the P2P companies like Sharman Networks that have essentially built a business model on copyright infringement. Sharman Networks does not "play nice" in the sense that Apple does.
The RIAA -- just like you and me -- has their own business interests in mind. If Phish allow concert tapes to be exchanged and you and I exchange them on a web site dedicated to such, or if you and I composed and performed our own music and posted it to our own web site, the RIAA would not likely have a business interest in arbitrarily suing us because we are engaging in "file sharing."
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
And don't forget that if the price of a CD included manufacturing, shipping, every penny that goes to the artist(s) now, a 100% markup to the record label, and a 100% markup to the retail outlet, they would still cost maybe $5.
So where is the other $10-20 going? Lawyers, politicians, record label executives.
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
If you want to talk about the RIAA's business interests, then talk about what their mission statement is: "Its mission is to foster a business and legal climate that supports and promotes our members' creative and financial vitality." Something tells me that when such a tiny percentage of the money you pay for a CD goes to the actual artist, the RIAA is not promoting their members "financial vitality." So really, if the RIAA doesn't even adhere to its own mission and doesn't even have a shred of loyalty to its own members, how can you expect them to "play by the rules" when dealing with anyone else? In addition, the EFF posted that sample just as that, a sample. The legislation is worded such that they could sue anyone (whether or not they have a financial interest in their success) like Bram Cohen.
If you can't logically conclude from the RIAA's position on various legislation that it would like to see filesharing stopped all together, then I really am sorry that your reasoning ability was lost somewhere along the line. The RIAA doesn't have to come out and say "All filesharing is evil" for them to think basically that.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
"If you want to talk about the RIAA's business interests, then talk about what their mission statement is: "Its mission is to foster a business and legal climate that supports and promotes our members' creative and financial vitality." Something tells me that when such a tiny percentage of the money you pay for a CD goes to the actual artist, the RIAA is not promoting their members "financial vitality."
The RIAA counts as its members record labels, not artists. The RIAA is indeed fiercely loyal to its members, the record companies -- loyal to a fault, it seems sometimes.
There are, however, organizations that are run by and for artists, such as ASCAP and BMI (performing rights societies that collect performance royalties and distribute them to their members) as well as the various musicians' unions, who were instrumental in enacting the AHRA, which dictates the tariff collected on audio CD-Rs.
"The legislation is worded such that they could sue anyone (whether or not they have a financial interest in their success) like Bram Cohen."
Remember, the INDUCE Act is in draft form. It needs to be fixed so that it can be used to go after its intended targets, and not, say, Bram Cohen. You have not yet made the logical connection from "the draft is poorly worded" to "the RIAA likes it because it's poorly worded."
"If you can't logically conclude from the RIAA's position on various legislation that it would like to see filesharing stopped all together, then I really am sorry that your reasoning ability was lost somewhere along the line."
Uncalled for.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
Remember, the INDUCE Act is in draft form. It needs to be fixed so that it can be used to go after its intended targets, and not, say, Bram Cohen. You have not yet made the logical connection from "the draft is poorly worded" to "the RIAA likes it because it's poorly worded."
The point is that the RIAA likes how it's worded now because of its overreaching language.
The RIAA counts as its members record labels, not artists. The RIAA is indeed fiercely loyal to its members, the record companies -- loyal to a fault, it seems sometimes.
While this may be the hidden truth, this is not how the RIAA posits itself. They used ad campaigns involving artists to convey the idea that they are "for the artists."
Uncalled for.
It was sarcasm, but it really seems like you have a vested interest in supporting the RIAA at any cost.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
uh?
Oh, of course, flamebait, my mistake.
Theres a winamp plugin that does somthing similair usung the winamp media libary called wombat share .
but you have to be a realist (rare on Slashdot, I know) ...
...
Hmm, looking back, becoming a realist is like starting to die -- so beware
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)