Slashdot Mirror
High Speed Steam Powered Car
CodeWanker wrote in to tell us about a story about new steam powered vehicles that are aiming to set speed records. The car is kind of goofy looking, but more eco friendly (which works for the Prius ;) Don't expect to see anything like this at your local dealer any time soon tho.
Valve has done something right.
M$ Lawyer: But `gcc
The gas mileage you can get with a hybrid is far less than what you can get with a good diesel engine. Hybrids are a bad idea, twice the weight (batteries, two motors), half the interior room. Diesel-engined cars have been getting 50+ MPG for years and years. Unfortunately the stigma in the US over "diesel" prevents them from being brought over here.
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
http://www.theaircar.com/
does not run on steam. But runs on air... And you can expect to see these at a local dealer soon. (at least Europe)
- Your stupidity got you into this mess, why can't it get you out? -Will Rogers
Anything that can begin to cut down on the amount of pollution that is generated in our atmosphere is a step in the right direction.
Sure, I'm not about to give up my VW GTI VR6 just yet, but sooner or later something's gotta give. Even Buzz Lightyear from Toy Story is mocking us:
'Do you people still use fossil fuels, or have you discovered crystallic fusion?'
Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
are we really going to start progressing towards an almost dark ages type society where we ressurect old tech and reuse it constantly?
Is that such a bad thing assuming the old tech can be made to perform better than the new tech?
Turbines are interesting designs and have been tried in cars before IIRC (i remember seeing a documentary on History Channel about this), was it Ford? They had a car that basically ran on anything that burned; they even tried common isopropyl alcohol on it. Worked just fine.
I wonder how efficient this engine is. Also, how quiet - that was one of the main issues with the car i mentioned before, it sounded like a small jet plane.
> WTF is tho?
It's a quaint way of spelling "740", you 6006.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Here's a question I've never had answered fully-
Say that fuelcells start powering everything, and their exhaust is going to be water.
BR> What is going to happen to all that water that we create? Isn't that going to have reaching enviromental implications as well?
Some place I can play my air guitar without feeling silly.
If it's not broke, don't fix it. I like to see new technology being developed as much as anyone else, but I believe we also need to keep enough of an open mind that we do not overlook great ideas that have already been made and improve on those ideas. Old tech can easily become new tech through basic improvements in efficiency, reliability, affordability, etc.
Will the engine refuse to start if it can't connect to the internet?
Go here, please.
Le français vous intéresse?
Does the manual will indicate which lever is the velocitator and which the deceleratrix?
-Peter
... steam whistles on every road!
This would compliment my telegraph powered internet connection and my horse drawn dishwasher. Heh.
My father-in-law actually remembers some people who had Stanleys from back in the 30s. I imagine that they were the same kind of people I remember from my youth who kept their 2-stroke Saabs on the road: engineering afficiandos.
According to pops, the Stanley was a terrific car in most respects, and fast as all get-out, but it had one fatal flaw. You had to heat the boiler up for a long time before you could get going. No running out the convenience store for a gallon of milk in that car.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So it's not any more eco-friendly than anything else that runs on gas. The article is full of a bunch of speculation about hydrogen or hithane or whatever, but it's the type of "in the future...." bullshit /. posts every day.
To further burst your steam-turbine bubbles, quoth the TFA:
"But the problem of turbines is that to be efficient, they have to run at a predetermined speed.
"The very nature of road cars is that their speed changes all the time, so this design would be no good for road vehicles."
They just built a fast car to break a record. This wont wind up in your garage.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
You are bieng new here, right?
select * from base where originalOwner = 'you' and currentOwner != 'us'.
0 rows returned.
steam power is and has been alive and well - most of my state's electricity comes from steam heated by nuclear reactor or fossil fuel, the navy runs ships powered by steam turbines (and catapults airplanes into the sky from carriers with steam to bomb those d.a. that don't like other d.a. getting rich selling their oil to us, hahahah). Internal combustion engines are a century old too.
I know very little about engines beyond some basic theory... but it seems to me that you need to burn fuel to drive pistons in an internal combustion engine and you need heat for steam turbines - would there be any practical way to combine the two?
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
Your UID is mOoZik and you complain about not holding up "basic English 'practices'?" Hello Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
In general, hand-made stuff was always highly prized when the hands involved were those of a master artisan -- the industrial revolution wasn't about producing something better than the best artisans could do, but something more _cheaply_ (and still pretty good -- the old 'bang for the buck' thing) than it would cost a master artisan to do.
That this practice continues to today (A few years back I was looking into getting a sword commissioned as a wedding gift and only seriously looked at hand-made swords, because there are no good factory-made swords -- there's not enough of a volume for good swords to justify an entire factory) is not regression.
Oh, and with regards to your sig, I think you want to say "woman-centric." The hyphen makes a difference.
Doesn't that closer describe the renaissance?
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
The dark ages were characterized by a total lack of scholarship and invention. The Englightenment, you may recall, occurred not when people donned blinders to the past and started looking forward, but when they were willing to look further back than others had done. And, by building on Greek and Roman scholarship that was thousands of years old, they were able to usher in the environment of inventiveness that helped create the Industrial Revolution.
Hell, we still learn things from Plato. Or would you consider that "regression" as well?
Another one bites the dust
The car is kind of goofy looking...
Whatever man, I think it looks awesome. Fark hit the nail right on the head when they described it as the batmobile in their headline.
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d? s: a-- C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E- W++ N o-- K- w--- O- M+ V PS+ P
Amen to that one. I was thinking the same thing when I read it. That and the annoying "emoticons" and smileys are annoying as well. Come on, can't the posters at least act like this is a respectable place to come for news?
If I were a first time visitor to this site, and that was the first thing I read, I would leave and never come back because I wouldn't take this place seriously. Keep that crap in the chat rooms or whatever.
Also, check out this wood powered Yugo. It gets 145km per 35kg of wood. :(
English text not available.
Steam and Electric are obviously nothing new, the first Car to break 100 mph was I belive electric.
Steam , like electric has several DISADVANTAGES as well, The was a time, when steam engines didnt reclain their steam that steam polution caused great enviromental issues with their condensate.
In addition high pressuer steam is DANGEROUS, and any vehicle designed would need to take that into account, think of the danger to the occupants of a vehicle whose boiler explodes.
For a take on this take a Hot Water heater, it is actually (gas or electric) the MOST Dangerous item in you hous a blocked T&P (Temperature and Pressure relief valve) with a tank in ovverun condition can catapult a Hot water tank through a 3 story house to a height of 100 ft, yup thats right, just like those little red plastic water rockets you had as a kid.
I was a union plumber and pipefitter, my specialty was in steam, I can tell you while the average goober might see great potential they seldom see the very real dangers of steam, steam to most seem innocent enough, just look at some of the deaths associate with steam engines recently, This even happened about 10 miles from my home an hourt after I left. Here and Here , and the fellow who owned and operated this was FAMILIAR with these risks, from burns to boiler failures, its not something to screw with unless you know what youre doing, and even then it will leave you suspicious
Now theres a name just begging for some tasteless puns.
I had the same reaction. Then I looked it up in what I consider the canon of the American dialect of the English language.
There goes the neighborhood.
-Peter
OK, I've RTFA. Hype! The bottom line is that steam is not a source of energy. Something has got to make that steam. And that gets us right back to the problem of supplying the energy in a form that burns clean and is clean to produce in the first place (Hydrogen for hydrogen based cars, by the way, burns clean, but is made from natural gas in a very polluting and wasteful process; overall a "clean burning" hydrogen car is a much more wasteful car and a source of more total polution tyhan one that would just use natural gas directly. Of course, if we were to produce hydrogen cleanly that would change, but there seems to be no move to do so.)
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
It seems that lately a lot of stuff has started to regress to older tech. Steam power...
... hand labor being of higher value craftsmanship
So when we finally get portable fusion reactors, will it be "old tech" since it's been happening on the sun for billions of years?
Yes, it's steam. It's superheated steam used to turn a turbine. Pretty much the same technology used in nuclear power plants. Of course power plant turbines turn at a constant speed to deliver constant power, which is why this is a new use for a steam turbine.
Hand craftsmanship has always been valued over mass produced items by those who see quality as more than the sum of the parts... and are willing to pay more for such quality. We've always been around and will always be. Perhaps the dominance of Walmart has made more people turn towards supporting local artists and craftsmen, but it's certainly not a new fad.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
...we'll be seeing this all over the roads?
boiler explosion
Hand labor has always (at least in the past 50-60 years) been of more value then craftsmanship. Actually, hand craftsmanship never lost its value - because it takes so much manpower...these days because the whole "it was made by hand" commands a higher price, even though the hands might be of a 10 year old in Malaysia working for 10 cents a week.
I hope you were not trying to be a troll, in all honesty, since you were around for a while. Through-out history there are records of us using older techniques (look at plastic surgery, how it uses techniques from India culture of over 4000 years ago).
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Anyone remember Stirling powered cars?
They've been around for years, the Air Force used them, the USPS used them, etc...
Not to mention, the Stanley Steamer....
Nothing new to see here, move along...
If we could make one run off flies, that would be something
I dont understand why steam has such an archaic stigma attached to it...
Diesel dates to the late 1800's and Electric powered cars date back further than that. Steam power was not developed with the view toward automobile production as much as other technologies.
Stanley Steamer broke the standing land speed record in 1906 with a steam powered car..
If we can get the same or more power out of a steam powered car, with better gas mileage.. then i'm up for it. Even if it is "old" technology.
(I'll even wear my bowler hat to the box social)
Cheera
Now that we've reached this milestone, how long before we have high-speed giant robot steam spiders? We've had the slow ones since the days of the Wild Wild West.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
We did experiment some with external combustion vehicles about 30 years ago.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Imagine everything good about your diesel cars.
Then make them hybrid!
If a Hybrid gas electric can make 40% better mileage then the same technologies on a 50MPG diesel should push it into the 70MPG range easy.
Diesel is great and I would love to see Diesel hybrids. Even better would be diesel-steam-eletric hybrids!
Diesel as a compact, efficient, renewable energy source.
Steam turbine as the efficient electric generator.
Electric as the efficient drivetrain and braking system.
GPL Deconstructed
I know there's a lot of people scared of dangerous hydrogen (ohh, the Hindenburg) but I'd rather have a hydrogen powered car than one where I'm sitting next to "superheated steam at 400C and at 40-bar pressure (4 million Pa)". Give me the new (not steam) technology any day.
P.S. Have you noticed that there's a lot of losers tossing around Troll points?
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
VW is supposed to do this:
? artid=30458&pg=1
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy
grep -iw skynet
...the Porsche cars that came with my ca. 1975 slot car set.
Successfully condensing fact from the vapor of nuance since 1998.
...to vapor-ware!
Haven't you ever heard the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go hook my horse to the cart so I can head to the general store for some flour, I have clothes to hand wash and hang to dry, and there's something wrong with my hand-crank well pump.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
At least it's funny! Picture a singing cow and tell me you don't giggle. Tell me! ;)
A blog like any other.
I don't like diesels for simple reasons. It's not because of some sort of unfair stigma. Diesel cars and trucks are louder than gasoline cars and trucks. The exhaust from diesels is visible and it smells bad. I'll take a quiet car that at least pollutes with an oderless and colorless gas.
That was funny.
"Wow. Now THAT'S a lot of angry Indians." - Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer
Awww... Snuggle Bear! Sounds like somebody needs a group hug!
"Wow. Now THAT'S a lot of angry Indians." - Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer
Hello 1880's!
Not quite. I don't think that these things will have us wading in horse crap all day. I bet they smell better also.
What?
Sword as a wedding gift, nice one.
It's a shame that code is no longer recognised as something requiring skill, just a load of badly paid students working overtime to churn it out.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Unfortunately, they didn't understand aerodynamics as well then as we do now, and on the next run the car hit a bump and became the first automobile to fly more than 500 feet -- totalling the car and killing the driver.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
Keeping my eye out for a car powered by dilithium crystals... On a serious side, I personally could care less how my car is powered. I would like it to be the most efficent use of the energy put in, but if that energy is provided by steam or by carbon based fuels, then so be it. If someone can provide a machine that pumps out close to the amount of energy as is put in to it, then great. If that is the most efficent way of getting the work done, lets do it that way. Just my 2 cents.
VD
Steam is just an energy transport mechanism, like roller chain, belt drives, gears, hydraulics or electricity.
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
Then you run a hose from the whiskey tank to the drivers area... and you run a hose from you windshield wiper... hook both of those into a t connector... then fill the windshield wiper resevoir with oj... and you've got instant screwdrivers while you drive!
How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
And the turbine powered race cars that were the bane of Nascar in the seventies?
That showed that you could build a FAST car that basically ran on anything.
Nothing new here.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
30% less emissions, half the efficiency.
Ever read about the good old days of good, clean, horse power? On big work projects, half of the horses were hauling water and food for the other half. Not to mention the tons of emissions - horse urine, road apples, and Al Gore's greenhouse gasses.
You're right, I can't argue with that;-)
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
You are an animal, too. And, yes, your clothes are quite funny.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Please accept my appologies - the above post is probably the most poorly worded post I have ever written. Thats what I get for writing and doing tech support at the same time.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Although steam engines still need to burn hydrocarbon-based fuels like petrol and diesel, which in turn release carbon dioxide, external combustion engines can control the release and the production of CO2 more efficiently.
How so? Isn't the amount of CO2 proportional the amount of fuel you burn, no matter how you burn it?
Better to transfer the heat directly to the axles, the extra step of the steam turbine wastes enegry due to friction, not to mention the added weight of the extra crap you have to carry. This is not efficient.
If even that. I expected to be modded "flamebait", just as I was in real life whenever I drove my '78 Pinto Wagon.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I fully expected the site to be slashdotted and looked forward to reading (and posting) witty comments about the underpowered web server being run by steam ...
Curses to you, BBC news. Curses to you.
You need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers, and say "that's the bad guy."
Let off some steam!
First it takes less energy and material to produce a gallon of diesel. I belive the cost to make gasoline is 55 gallons of diesel.
Second the restrictions in the US are mostly because of California. The idea of what is pollution in California is nearly the opposite of what is considered in Europe. So Europe gets more diesels and there is much more money spent to make them efficient and clean.
There is more real air pollution in the NorthEast during winter months than in California regardless of time of year there. Why? More engines are running enriched mixtures to get up to operating temperatures.
Diesels do weigh more but only in the engine area. They make up for this "weight" issue by being more efficient in fuel usuage.
So I have to ask, why not diesel? It really is a magnitude cheaper to produce, the cars perform better as for mileage, and the engines are built strong enough to survive many more miles than any gasoline engine.
Also a nice side effect is that they DO NOT EXPLODE.
The Prius will never return on its investment cost to regular drivers. The surcharge for the tricks needed to make a gasoline engine viable versus diesel are too high still. Better yet, a diesel electric combo would be more efficient.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Having examined the specs on this new vehicle, an obvious question occurs to me:
Could the steam car work with new coal technologies?
I believe they could. Coal is still by far the cheapest and most plentiful fossil fuel. Thirty years of mostly mediocre research has yielded a few new concepts for clean, effective combustion of coal; application of these technologies to unanticipated fields (e.g. steam-powered external combustion automobiles, home heating, kilns and crucibles, etc.) would shift the economics of developing these technologies.
Currently, advanced coal technologies are mostly in development as an alternative to costly regulations on the construction and expansion of coal-burning power plants. By that measure, most of these technologies would be deemed to expensive. Measured as a power source to replace our internal combustion engines, coal external combustion could be to gasoline internal combustion what the latter was to the former a hundred years ago.
Just a thought.
-=+> Anti-Christ P. S.
Heh, I was considering posting this story... *snaps fingers in disappointment*
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
I would say it's a very good thing that Slashdot's editors do not consider a submitter's politics when considering an article about steam engines.
Please, for the love of God, no more car analogies.
One of the byproducts of burning fossil fuels *is* water. Combining a hydrocarbon with oxygen creates H2O. When you see a car that's recently been started, the water vapor from combustion will condense on the cold exhaust pipe, and drip out the tail.
While I don't know what the environmental impact of fuel cell cars will be, consider that hydrocarbon vehicles (and all other things that burn fossil fuels) have been creating water all along. After the hundred years or so that we've been burning them, I've yet to see anything overflow.
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
Unfortunately, that only works if you've been to Taco Bell in the last hour or two.
... by the Dew of Mountains the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning
the 100MPH barrier was first broken by a steam car. Why show early steam cars as 'clunkers' they were fast and powerfull, but not 'fashionable'
There was an unknown error in the submission.
In researching and exploring bringing something towards commercialization, there seem to be many paths, in the early days. Some of these paths lead to problems that require certain breakthrus that just dont happen when needed to bring the concept to reality. So, other, easier, paths are followed. Later, those breakthru's can happen in other ways, or other fields that make those other paths that were abandoned back towards viablity, and even, sometimes, making a better path to the concept.
emt 377 emt 4
I realise that people have to try to make these things work, but the problems shouldn't be underestimated. One major practical problem is that steam turbines require a supply of distilled water, and that even small amounts of leakage of steam cause replenishment headaches. (There are stories, with the old steam turbine ships, of ships running out of water because the steam leakage in the engine room prevented staff from entering it to fix problems with the still. )
I'm sure someone will suggest that a hydrogen fueled turbine could use its waste water, but that water will be contaminated and require treatment.
I believe myself that in the end we will have to rethink the whole concept of individual transport, because most of the alternative supplies of energy to oil, like nuclear or solar power, are best suited to electrical distribution system and these favor railways or monorails. Nuclear power also better suits marine transport than aircraft, because it is perfectly possible to design safe nuclear powered ships. All of these attempts to keep the motor car going may just ultimately be dead ends.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
I could understand not modding it up, but down?
emt 377 emt 4
So how many rods to the hogshead does this steam contraption do?
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
http://gsc_oz.tripod.com/gentlemenssteamingclub/in dex.html
Yes, and you'd also not like to feed it coal to get the "superheated steam at 400C and at 40-bar pressure (4 million Pa)", no? Prety please w/sugar on top - read the article - there is no "boiler"...
Hooray! Time to throw some coal into my old Wobblebug and head out onto the open road, secure in the knowledge that I'm fashionable again!
You must think in Russian.
Guess what? Diesel engines can and do run off of propane/methane too. They need just a little diesel mixed in as well. I have seen city buses with natural gas tanks on them for this reason.
As usual, the collective Slashdot memory is short. The German company IAV pushed the envelope of steam power for wheeled vehicles way beyond Bowshers design and published their results in 2001. Check it out at http://www.iavinc.com/alternativedrives.html
TFA redundantly refutes the idea that this is not an improvement over existing internal combustion:
External combustion engines - like steam ones - hold several advantages over internal ones. They have the potential to produce fewer harmful nitrogen oxides (NOx) than conventional cars which use internal combustion engines. Although steam engines still need to burn hydrocarbon-based fuels like petrol and diesel, which in turn release carbon dioxide, external combustion engines can control the release and the production of CO2 more efficiently.
The real problems with this vehicle are size and practicality. The link to the designer's site is informative and should be followed if you are interested in steam powered vehicles. The heat exchangers are each bigger than large internal combustion engines and the care requires two of them. Also, the system has no condenser so you have to fill up water as well as fuel. Most of us won't have to go 200 MPH, so the size consideration can be reduced, but that improvement will be offset for by the inclusion of a condenser. If we could linearly reduce the 2MW thermal (from which we might get 1,000 HP!) to a far more reasonable 100 HP model, we would get a steam engine 1/10th the size of this one. I imagine that material restraints will not allow this. A hybrid vehicle would be nice, but it would have to be huge with current steam technology. This effort goes a long way to show why steam is an abandoned locomotion technology and why it would be better to separate power generation from consumption.
Nuclear power plants and electric cars are a current, viable alternative to internal combustion. Nuclear, despite disastrous exclusive franchises and government regulation, is still the cheapest and cleanest electricity available. Recent improvements to batteries makes high performance electric cars possible. Self contained nuclear plants have been designed that could be distributed like gas stations and will put an end to both much regulatory monkey business, if we demand reasonable laws.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Reprocessing is a little more expensive than the one shot fuel cycle being used, but it makes the fuel we have on hand essentially limitless. In any case, fuel disposal costs are most part of the cost of nuclear power and no one is hiding anything. The only hidden part of costs are those imposed by infinite research, such as goes on at Yucca mountian, and continuously changing requirements for storage of "waste".
Every plant has a decommission fund that you have paid for. Beware those who would spend it on anything else, especially those who pretend such funds do not exist and call for government programs like superfund. The problem there is that you will get to pay for it again and again.
The "waste" problem is not technical, it's political.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The parent makes a few good points. However the design of the Prius powertrain is so unorthodox that almost everyone misses the really cunning part, which is that it actually has two transmissions working in parallel. The power from the IC engine (when it's running) is partitioned among them by a differential drive. One part goes to the infinitely variable electrical CVT (= generator + motor) and the other part goes straight to the wheels.The transmission ratio of this part is essentially that of top gear.
When cruising all the power is transmitted by the direct drive and none by the electric motor. That only provides the additional torque when more torque is required than top gear can provide, therefore the additional electrical losses are only incurred when you put your foot down.
The second point that is usually missed is the fact that the Prius sports an Atkinson cycle engine, which is more efficient at part load than the usual Otto cycle engine. The Atkinson cycle goes a long way towards making up the difference in efficiency between the Otto and the Diesel cycle at part load.
Valve recently has been shutting down Steam accounts that are in violation of their policies, hence my extension of the parent's joke.
Holy hell I just had to slaughter the joke. Thanks.
Actually, no. The sulfur is naturally occuring. It's just that it costs money to remove it, and as the main usage of diesel is with large vehicles that can handle the sulfur, they don't want to spend the money to remove it.
And the lowering is occuring
The lubrication myth comes because the process that removes the sulfer also removes other compounds that do act as a lubricant. You just have to add something in to replace the natural lubricants.
I don't read AC A human right
I didn't know *anyone* saw this as a respectable place to come for news. It's more a forum than news site, and the mods here just barely take themselves seriously.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
If you would like to see some images of the inside of a "classic" steam boiler, my group's web site documents our restoration of a steam locomotive.
Some that have not been given a home yet:
Side sheet and mud ring
Nicholson thermic siphons
Backsheet and crownsheet under repair
Since this is a restoration effort we are not at liberty to improve the design of the boiler or transmission system, but there is research being done on steam technology that is promising. Much of it is being done in India I understand. Just because Polar Express is in vogue right now and when we hear "steam" we think of quaint old steam trains, this is not your father's steam engine (in TFA).
Also, it is a fact that steam engines operate more efficiently at high altitudes than internal combustion engines, where that might be applicable. We should not be so quick to dismiss the possibilities.
slashdot: A failed experiment.
The early stanly's were pretty fast but not so areodynamic and racers have been known to loose their head!
"Just because it's written doesn't make it true." "Intelligence is the ability to question the status-quo."
Hung clothes dry faster on a sunny afternoon and use less electricity/gas then a modern dryer. Problem is not every day is a sunny day. A smart person uses both methods to his/her advantage.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
ith an approximate 94% recycling rate, the lead-acid battery industry is just about as good as it gets.
Further, the cycle of lead from smelter -> battery manufacturer -> consumer -> old battery to smelter is as tight a closed loop as you'll find (short of a cow in a pasture).
Ahh, The Beer Store.
98% recovery rate of _all_ packaging. All by offering a mere 10 cents per bottle.
And yet every few years some Conservative will spout off about privatising the damn thing. Despite truly ridiculous selection, rural community reach, and said environmental success.