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TiVo Moves to Bypass Cable
Thomas Hawk writes "TiVo is throwing in the towel on cable. According to CEO Mike Ramsay, 'offering service through one of the primary cable platforms is not the best way to grow our business at this time, because the economics are not very attractive, instead, we have decided to embrace the PC as our friend.'
This may add to the complexity of an already convoluted message that TiVo has been criticized for being unable to articulate to the masses. In the same article TiVo says it plans to introduce a new line of recorders that will accept CableCards. The company has declined to say when new machines will be introduced or how much they will cost. Most significantly, there is still no elaboration as to whether this new standalone box will be able to record cable or satellite HDTV."
What is a cable card?
A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward. -- FDR
But can it run Linux?
If they are no longer going to support cable directly, how do they plan to muster any support? Can't the cable companies just encode the signal to prevent Tivo from recording int?
*De gozaru!*
What's it do? If you don't hook it up to cable or satellite (unless you get a special card), it just becomes a fancy hard drive in a fancy box? Why do I need one again?
Tivo's recent actions have left me pretty convinced that they're lost. They don't seem to have a cohesive business plan on how they are going to fend off all the "generic" pvr/dvr's that come free with cable or satellite service, or for the onslaught of PC based solutions.
Tivo certainly has refinement and ease of use in its court, but I can see that eroding quickly. They are having to keep adding new features under the same pricing model just to stay competetive.
Long live Tivo...
Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/
I predict that the 2005 ces devices introduced will beat tivo at its own game.
Dvd recorders with hard disks cost $399 now (excluding the buggy $250 ILO one at Wal-Mart). By the end of the 2005, they should cost $225.
It is like the 5mp name brand (canon, nikon, etc) digital cameras. They cost $400 just before Christmas 2003 and then dropped $100 or more by Christmas 2004.
How are they doing this without reverse engineering the cable companies card info? Are they working together with them?
http://www.immigrantornot.com/
Click here. Thanks to NY Times Link Generator. :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I doubt this is what Tivo will do. but, how would this work. Tivo could act like a cable provider, but use the internet as the transfer medium instead of coaxial cable. Networks could offer tivo shows which they could offer to their users. The users could watch the shows at any time based on their choosing. The super small cable channels (Outdoor life network, knitting central...) would love this. ? ... profit
"brxref
Do NOT talk about Tivo Cable!
But... PC: You're on one Tuner card: $50-150 Hard Drive: $50 PVR Software: Negligible ----- Sticking it to TIVO and having your own PVR, priceless.
But who cares? I don't want this to degenerate into some sort of "my tv show is the greatest" rah rah session, but what could possibly be on tv that is so good that it warrants recording?
It's not like tv became garbage overnight. It's been pretty bad for a while. What shows are there today that in 10 or 15 years people will be reminiscing about? Where are the Knight Riders, the Happy Days, the Sledge Hammers?
I look at the spring lineup and can't find a single thing that warrants shelling out the cash for something to record this trash. Am I watching the wrong channels?
'offering service through one of the primary cable platforms is not the best way to grow our business at this time, because the economics are not very attractive, instead, we have decided to embrace the PC as our friend.'
Translation: Guys, we have not posted a profit yet and our doors have been open almost 8 years. We have got to do something FAST! Drop the cable, push the DirecTV DVR and extend functionality to the PC fast. Otherwise we are going to lose more investors.
I like my Tivo, but I wish these cats would figure out some way to make a profit.
that is so attractive to companies?
Boss: "Hey! Wow, everyone sure did love feature x and y."
Engineer, proudly thumbing suspenders: "Yes sir, we really hit the nail on the head!"
Boss, now turning to glare at the engineer: "Pack your bags johnson. If we don't tolerate your kind here"
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Will the cable companies work with Tivo to get this going or will they do what another poster said and reverse engineer.
Of course btw, to another poster it runs linux.
There is a linux port to just about everything. Hell, my toaster runs linux produces GNU/Linux toast with the faces of Stallman and Linus facing off to each other for goodness sakes.
I really do wonder though how long it will take before someone out-Tivo's Tivo.
ACK
What TIVO needs is a new box with a midget inside that does all of my work, so I have time to watch TV!
Let alone for a service that allows me to record this poorly made chewing gum for brain. It's really scary to see that some folks pay $70 for TV and then go out and pay extra for this stuff. I sense a full-blown addiction there. It's deeply rooted, and it turns one's brains into propaganda receivers.
Like this line of yours??
The best planning can be done after the project completes.
I knew Tivo as it originally started was a failed business model. Cool, but doomed. It was priced way too high with the subscription fee or lifetime purchase to really make it. Yes, a lot of people bought Tivos, but a lot more didn't. The competion from Cable companies who offer their own DVR for $10 a month while not as good as Tivo was good enough. Dual tuners, a single box, no serial or IR blaster configuration, replacement boxes if one goes bad, no initial investment in the box itself.
who cares
I think this is the ultimate acknowledgement that they have been unsucessful getting the cable companies to license / resell their technology. Tivo's obviously been trying to make themselves less threatening to content vendors by limiting PC interoperability. But, since "big cable" is for the most part not going with Tivo for DVR, the incentives for Tivo to kiss their asses has gone away.
Yes, it's a desperate attempt to stay in business... Tivo has realized that, aside from DirecTV, they're going to have to sell their own units on their own merits, and that they'd better close the gap in PC interoperability. Let's hope it's not too late.
Of course, it will be a cold day in hell before any of these new features makes it to my DirecTivo... DirecTV is as strict as any about content control.
-R
If I were Tivo, I'd try to set up deals where shows can be distributed over the Internet via a BitTorrent-like protocol. IMO, this is one of the easiest ways in which they'd be able to maintain a viable business strategy. There are several advantages to doing this: 1. Low maintenance costs. Aside from hosting the tracker and a high-speed seeder, the bandwidth required would be extremely low. Also, since the torrents would be distributed only to Tivos, they wouldn't have the MPAA or anyone like that worrying about PC users getting a hold of them. 2. Tivo Series2 models (the standalone units) already have all of the hardware required. In case you don't know, Tivos can be networked via a USB slot in the back. Though the hardware is actually USB 2.0, the drivers are 1.0. They'd simply need to change this. Also, a software update would be necessary, but Tivo already does this on a regular basis. 3. Money, money, money. As mentioned by someone already, small networks would jump on the chance to have this type of distribution. In fact, this opportunity would even turn Tivo into a cable-like provider, maybe even putting them into the black again. Time after time again, I've seen posts on Slashdot where many pine for such a television distribution medium. I just hope Tivo sees the golden opportunity that its new strategy affords.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
TiVo is doomed.
They are going to now try to muscle in on the "PC" market where you already have existing alternatives that are FREE such as FreeVo and MythTV. It is only a matter of time before like all other open source free projects they become so functional and easy to use people can distribute images of them that are easy to configure and setup. On the unsecure unstable side of things there are Windows Media Center PCs rolling out as well. For the cherry on top, most cable companies also over DVR services for significantly less if you don't want to fuss around with a PC at all.
Why pay for the cow when you get the milk free?
Last year, Tivo announced TivoToGo at CES 2004. They annouced availablity this past Monday (Jan 3, 2005), and a very few people have got the new 7.1 software required for TivoToGo at the moment (check out the Tivo Community).
Tivo showed a demo of a CableCard 1.0 demo at CES today. They plan to offer a CC HD Tivo in 2006. They needed to get this cable card Tivo out in APRIL 2005, not 2006!!! CableCard is an open standard anyone can implement, Tivo or anyone else doesnt need permission from the cable companies.
There is only one caveat with their 2006 annoucement - there are a few limitations that Tivo might be waiting for CC 2.0 to come about for. The first big thing is that now CableCard 1.0 is unidirectional (from the cable co to your box). CC 1.0 is also limited to one tuner (analog or digital channel) per physical cable card. CableCard 2.0 is bidirection (so the Tivo box can talk to the cable company, allows PPV-on-demand, interactive guide data, etc), and CC2.0 provides up to 5 tuners per physical cable card.
I would bet that if Tivo is waiting until 2006 to release their CableCard HiDef-capable Tivo, it damn well better be CableCard 2.0. Tivo can provide splitters inside the box to allow for anywhere from 2, 3, up to 5 tuners. I doubt most people have a practical need for 5 tuners UNLESS... (this is my wish) Tivo enhances their Home Media Option to allow smart scheduling, so that you can have one SuperTivo and several client Tivos (pass through tuner, no Hard disk) that just stream content from the SuperTivo over a home network.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
The original poster seems a bit confused. The CableCard version they are working on is their solution for cable TV systems.
CableCard is the open standard for digital cable. It allows a TV to work with a cable system without needing a seperate cable box. The CableCard is a PCMCIA card that works with the cable security system to allow viewing of premium channels, PPV, etc. CableCard support is currently available in several high end HDTVs (it's only in the high end units now, because it requires a built-in HD tuner).
The new Tivo will have dual tuners, and will support QAM256, for full HDTV viewing/recording. It will be very similar in functionality to the HD DirecTivo (dual tuners - record two programs while watching a third).
There are some pictures of it here.
what a stand up move it was for them to announce it after the christmas buying spree. thats right folks theyll probably be obsolete by next year! merry christmas!
I have a Tivo. I like Tivo, but it's nothing more than a souped up VCR. It's an incremental step, not a quantum leap. Any idiot who sat down and thought about it could make it better. Start by adding in IMDB integration. Just put a little link in the listing info. Half the time I watch a movie, I'm looking something up on IMDB using my laptop anyway. You don't need to bloat the thing, but stuff like that seems like such a natural fit. If you're willing to pay for a Tivo, you probably have broadband of some sort, why not make good use of it?
Perhaps you missed this other announcement. DirecTV will be selling their own non-TiVo DVR (and spec-wise it's pretty nice). They claim they'll continue to sell/support TiVos, but it's unlikely they'll be adding any features or pushing them much.
It's the opposite of everything on Fox, funnier than anything else on TV. Your welcome.
If they do try to record HDTV, I predict that Cable/Satellite will follow up with DMCA-to-Tivo-King-4.
It looks like it's going to be a classic match.
All cable companies have and support cable cards per the FCC.
Anybody know if the FCC has this requirement for Satellite providers (despite the moniker)?
I'd love to get out from under my uberbuggy Dish PVR but I like the Dish service apart from that. I'd get the TiVo but would rather use Myth, if possible.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Tivo's interface is far beyond any other DVR out there. And while everyone claims that this interface is easily copied, no one has yet to come close. It reminds me of Apple & Microsoft. Bill and co. have been trying to "out-interface" Apple for years, and they still come up short. And while they have eroded Apple's overall user base, there is still a dedicated population of people out there to keep Apple running.
Tivo's product & interface is so good that everyone I know that owns one has eventually purchased a second box. Tivo also garners the *exceptionally high* approval ratings amoung its customers.
My hope is that they play the game smart and remain the thorn in the side of cable companies the way Apple has remained the thorn in the side of MS.
Get cable so you can get something besides the few channels that actually provide reception on satellite on only a perfect day for weather (not to mention real broadband access), then browse the programming lineup in your digital gateway. If you are just using rabbit ears forget about it, you are the mercy of network broadcasting companies that think crap like reality shows are where it is all at. Who is your Daddy? YO MOMMA!
There is plenty of programming out there old and new that is great if you have a reliable medium to get it to you to surf through and find. Using a DVR from your cable company or a Linux version you can catch the shows you like but may miss working or sleeping.
I've researched this issue and the headline of the article is correct. TiVo is moving to bypass cable but not by throwing the whole system away and not allowing you to record cable BUT by integrating a cable card into a standalone TiVo box. This eliminates the need for a cable decoder. Their intent is to differentiate themselves further from the cheap knockoff PVRs that the cable companies are deploying. As an avid TiVo user myself I assure you that TiVo will not be dropping the capability to record cable programming.
l ?type=technologyNews&storyID=7252458/
Here is an article that better describes what TiVo is doing: http://olympics.reuters.com/audi/newsArticle.jhtm
More information and analysis will most likely be available at my source for TiVo information http://www.tivoblog.com/ tomorrow.
They were so busy allowing 'content' providers to decide what features to include they forgot to keep an eye on the market. The law about timeshifting was on there side so have the balls to put on the features that will keep at the head of the pack.
They could have been selling branded TiVos to cable companies, just like the DirecTV TiVo. The should have encouraged the hackable TiVo. Since anyone can make a pvr they should have made it more open so they would be the M$ of pvrs. Now it seems they are moving to put TiVo on the PC, something that people had been wanting for years.
I knew it was a bad sign when Series 2 DID NOT come with an ethernet port, my god; just so they could sell licenses to TiVo certified USB ethernet cards.
Plus the company seems to have moved away from the geeky silicon valley feel, if it was ever there to the greedy dumbass business types who want as much control as possible but forgot what made them successful.
You cannot even set up a TiVo without a phone line or internet connection to connect to them. Something as simple as switching from cable source to antenna source has become a pain.
On the Series 1 you could do manual recordings without a subscription. My nephew got Series 2 and you cannot do anything but switch channels without a subscription. That kind of crap annoys the hell out of me. They want absolute control of everything and still want their hand in your pocket after you buy the device.
It was fun while it lasted
Hopefully some company will make a device that did what the TiVo didn't, or maybe they'll just hack the Xbox 2.
Euphemism, what is that a euphemism for something.
Peace
I believe this has something to do with the OpenCable intitative. I know that there was talk of an HD Tivo being built for OpenCable.
NT
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Tis a novel idea. Sicne the 'broadband' users probably use a USB Wireless dongle to connect, then there should be no reason why this won't work, but they'd have to parse out the data and shove it through TiVo's GUI.
Semi-related-intersting-thing: IMDb's Link-It is an interesting service (has anyone used it?) that has you email link-it@imdb.com an html page with the artist/movie title names and imdb will link it up with the appropriate pages all href'd for you.
All cable companies do it right now, every single one of them. They probably don't advertise it because they'd rather you not use cablecard (they make a killing off of you leasing or buying the digital cable box off of them.) They were federally mandated to carry the cablecards by June 1st 2004. I already know for certain cox is doing it, and they don't advertise it at all. The only way you can find out about it is if you dig around their website.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
what you suggest is exactly what I thought they might do.
:-)
When should we start working on this?
emt 377 emt 4
They could try to move into the Windows arena and make software to compete with Windows Media PC. Sure there are Linux programs that act like TiVo, but Windows is bigger and that could carry them. Vendors could build these Media PCs and put TiVo software on there instead of Windows pvr software. Then they could build interoperability with the set-top.
TiVo is chasing volume, and with a tech device the best way to do that is put as many features people want in it and also allow for newer features to be added, some not even from the company itself.
Look at the way they half heartedly added the Media Option; pictures and mp3s, who cares.
They could save themselves, but do they want to.
For God's sake, put a damn fast ethernet port in the device.
Euphemism, what is that a euphemism for something.
I am also a big TiVo fan. I'm on my second unit, having given the first away to my sister to spread the love. I agree that a lot of their recent moves have been pretty worrying. I actually started putting together a MythTV box when the banner-ad-while-fast-forwarding announcement hit.
:) just sweetens the deal, and will let me do literally everything I want with my TV content.
a -great-product, call it Apple Syndrome; but if they can continue to provide the excellent service and interface, and find ways to deliver more and better content, I'm pretty sanguine about their chances long term. ...and I guess I'll just have to learn to put up with the banner ads.
After some thought, I've decided to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. TiVo has a lot going for it. The user interface is brilliantly executed, both simple and powerful enough for anyone. TiVoToGo, especially if they get on the ball with Mac support and DVD burning (hopefully Mac DVD burning, as well, but I'm a realist
A bit more on topic WRT TFA, I'm pretty psyched for the Netflix/TiVo thing to actually materialize. There was a great quote on that topic from a bigwig at Netflix to the effect of (paraphrasing) "we always intended to deliver movies via the internet, we didn't name the company 'DVDs By Mail'." It says something about TiVo that it is the first product out there to fit the bill as a delivery vehicle for that dream.
As far as the Cable Cards and today's announcement go, it seems pretty sane to me. The cablecos are clearly dragging their feet on opening the set top boxes. Every day they do so, their crappy, barely usable DVR units and WinMCE gain ground on TiVo. So they have to do something to differentiate themselves in the meantime, until they can compete on a level playing field. And besides, they can always hijack the signal from the cableco STB just like they do now, so what's the loss (never-ending wait for HD aside)?
So I don't know, TiVo is one of those perpetually-going-out-of-business-companies-with-
My VCRs still work just fine, and Tivo still sucks.
Yes, I've tried Tivo. No, it doesn't offer the functionality which my VCRs provide for me.
I'm still waiting for a unit which builds on and adds to a VCR's functionality. When the clueless companies finally start making one, only then will I buy.
Subscriptions - hah. DRM - heh. Tivo - bah. Spit.
Then I wander off and do the stuff I normally do and forget about it.
I have 70 channels of crap on my cable, which I buy only to make my 10 year old happy. He can watch Sponge Bob 5 times a day, if his homework is done.
What am I missing? Is there really anything on TV worth watching on purpose?
Maybe I am an oddball, but my time goes like this (by weight, not by volumn, some settling may have occured durring shipping) - I work, I sleep, I prepare/go get food. I eat, I read books, I shuttle my kids around, I read slashdot, I sit on the toilet and read tech journals... I occasionally watch a DVD, either one I bought on sale, or rented.
Is there anything on TV that I should be making time for? Let alone buying special hardware and paying extra monthly fees to see?
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
PC: Allready existing, you're on /. so that's a good assumption
TV Tuner / remote: http://www.dvcentury.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Scr een=PROD&Product_Code=96-989-7134&Category_Code=ET T
Cost - $36.00
TV Output: Almost all recent video cards have S-Video out, even the cheap ones.
Software: http://store.snapstream.com/btv-3-both.html
Cost - $69.00
Hard drive for video:http://www.liquidationetc.com/31/15840.htm?4 21: $48.00
The rest is relevant to how spiffy you want your setup in wiring but in this example assuming your TV is within 50 feet of the PC (for apartment dwellers like myself::
$153 dollars plus the price of connection cables.
microsoft is antihammer --; http://www.hammerrevolution.com
I own a Sony SAT-T60 DirecTV receiver that is also a tivo unit. Since I will never go back to cable (well, maybe only when Verizon starts offering it via fiber) because of crappy signal and few channels, buying a satellite receiver with Tivo built-in was a logical choice: :)
...I can't say the same about other mfg's remotes.
1. Signal from satellite comes in digital format and is saved that way to tivo's internal hard drive. Try doing that with your home-grown video capture; going from digital to analog to digital defeats the purpose of getting satellite in the first place!
2. With directTV tivo you can tape TWO channels at the same time while watching something else that was "taped" before.
3. You can pause live tv, go answer the phone, door, microwave your dinner, etc. and then resume play from where you paused it.
4. Wife or girlfirned rudely interrupted you? (while you were watching the game winning goal/shot/touchdown?) NO problem! don't get mad, just rewind - Tivo always keeps 30 mins of the channel(s) you are watching in a buffer.
5. Tivo units run Linux and are very hackable, software and hardware-wise. You can add or replace its hard drive to increase capacity, add network card to use broadband to pull down guide data snf updates via the Internet (instead of telephone call) Many people have modded their Tivo boxes to display weather, run webserver so you can connect from work and schedule stuff and view other stats...like what your kids are watching right now
6. With that network card installed on series 1 and wireless 802.11 usb adapter on series 2 tivo you can pull down shows to your desktop, laptop or xbox (with minor changes to os on tivo)
7. You can skip all those annoying commercials - you will save about 15 minutes per 1 hour show. Once you get used to this feature (takes about 5 minutes) you will not understand why your inlaws' tv cannot do this...
8. Ecellent search capability - want to see a movie with Angelina Jolie or Harrison Ford? Type it in and let tivo search up to two weeks of programming guide data. Found it but it's playing at 3am on Friday? No problem, with a click of a button you can add it to be taped for you.
9. Small form factor and lower power consumption. Sure, you can probably get most of these features by taking a small pc and adding two tuner cards, sound card or mobo with optical out jack for sound, another dedicated hard drive, rd receiver and remote control but you will still need another box to get the satellite singal. Less hardware, especially the ugly pc kind is a plus.
Finally, the money you'll save by using a low power device vs 300W pc will probably be enough to offset the $5 Tivo fee that DirectTV charges their customers. (A LOT of people bitch and moan about five bucks but ignore how much power and $ their home grown pc/tivo-clone will waste. Building something that will look attrative in your living room will cost quiet a bit as well.
P.S. Person who designed Sony SAT-T60's remote control is a genius!
Hopefully they don't have go through the dark ages Apple did before making a comeback.
Here's a Registration Free Link for those who want to read the article selling their soul.
Among the goodies folks are finding is an undocumented one: A built in web server.
No, apparently not Apache but something else, what counts is it's there, it works, and it allows download of XML files containing show listings and the shows themselves. To get to it follow these steps:
- Sign up for an early download of TiVo 7.1. Must have a Series 2, no DVD burner built-in (player is ok), DirecTV models aren't handled by TiVo. Basically TiVo Service Numbers beginning with 110, 130, 140, 230, 240, 264, 540, & 590.
- While on TiVo's web site note your password and the "Media Access Key" (MAK) for your TiVo. You'll need these later.
- Wait for 7.1 to be downloaded and installed on your machine. Continually forcing reconnects will not hurry this, indeed the cumulative server load by that sort of thing will only delay the rollout.
- Once you've got 7.1 (it's downloaded, installed, you've rebooted) point a web browser at https://your.tivo's.ip.address/nowplaying/index.h
t ml . For user supply tivo and the password is your "MAK".
- Go wild.
What, big deal? OK, how about pulling your video off your TiVo, the much-feared video extraction ?Turns out you need to have TiVo's DirectShow decryption filter installed, and that only comes with their TiVo Desktop v.2 which is, for now, Windows 2K/XP only. You also need a decent mpeg2 codec, which MS doesn't include in Windows. TiVo recommends a couple of commercial ones but there are also free ones out there too. Or, you might have one that came with DVD software.
However, contrary to TiVo's marketing, once a .tivo file is pulled through this it can be edited, saved, even burned to DVD, with nothing more special needed. That's right, no waiting for Sonic's soon-to-be-shipped software, no magic mojo involved, trusty ole TMPGEnc and Nero and all the rest are perfectly fine. Indeed once passed through the magic DirectShow filter (and your password supplied) the .tivo files are free to be rendered into a more normal mpeg2 files.
Sure the $50 "custom" software will probably do more with automation, labeling, and such, but I'm betting nothing that can't be whipped up in a few days by TiVo's customers, likely beating the Sonic software to the punch.
Pretty Kewl, eh?
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
12:43 central and attempts to look at messages or metamod give only 503 errors.
WTF? Surely you mean "Sue our customers".
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
It's a digital video recorder, not rocket science. It's trivial and cheap to put together hardware that works like TiVo, and the program information is widely available. Altogether, that means that there just is no business model there: TiVo-like functionality just becomes an add-on to PCs, cable boxes, and other devices.
If a company like this can't explain where they are going, then they probably aren't quite sure themselves.
--
I packd up my standalone TiVO last week and took it back to Costco. Only 1 tuner, constant issues with not changing channels with the IR, not ble to record HDTV and the $12.95 a month recurring charge were all things I decided I could live without. Our cable provider came out with a nice new Moxi (http://www.digeo.com/) powered DVR. The picture and sound quality is far superior, it records HDTV and has two tuners.
I'm in the UK. I've got two TiVos and love them, however I can't get another, because TiVo have already pulled out of of the UK. The only manufacturer making boxes discontinued them a few years ago, we never had series 2 boxes, and even though a US box will work, sort of, with a few software hacks, we can't sign one up for service.
What killed off TiVo in the UK was the mainly terrible marketing which focussed soley on the pause-live-tv aspect.. and who wanted to spend £400 ($700) for that, plus £10 ($17) a month service charge?? I hardly ever watch live tv! There is too much crap on there; I let the tivo pick out the very few good programs that are scattered about, so I can watch them when I want to! And to skip the adverts, of course. I also appreciate the suggestions!
Now, the monopoly satelite broadcaster Sky have their own integrated box which they virtually give away free (if you are on their top packages) but has many less features, not being a TiVo. There is no way TiVo Inc. could come back in now and capture any market share again, even with a generic box that would work with cable, digital terrestrial, etc. Nobody will pay for anything they can get for "free" from somewhere else.
The best show since the early seasons of The West Wing.
i'm in the UK and our only satellite provider is SKY. SKY can provide a tivo-lite service called SKY+, but it's not that great. What I really want to do is get a satellite card for my PC, put my SKY viewing card in it, and watch their channels. As far as I know the SKY architecture's closed though and you can't do it via a card. Anyone know any different? Plugging video-out into a capture card on my PVR and using an IR blaster to change channels would appear to suck heavily...
They're not "throwing in the towel" on cable, they're simply tired of trying to get acceptable partnership agreements with cable companies. And the CableCard solution (which is built in to some TVs already with more to come), in addition to getting rid of one of the boxes on your TV is a standard that they'll be able to support without having to get the cable company's "permission." It sounds to me like a perfectly rational and reasonable solution.
What I'm concerned about is an apparent upcomming "deal" between TiVo and Microsoft. TiVo currently uses Linux as its OS and, is thus, very hacker friendly. If they plan on moving to a MS OS, I think I might cry.
"I've read several times that TiVo has a "boat anchor" plan in place in case the company goes out of business. The plan is to release all the specs so that users may reconfigure the system to use another guide service."
That is an extremely good idea, and they should say it up front. I wish 321 studios would have had a similiar plan to relase their source code under a FOSS license for their DVD copier before going out of business.
They are going out of business anyway, might as well release their product under a FOSS license and maybe still survive in some aspect (like Netscape).
So when is tivo going to start being legal to operate in Canada?
We need a programable "BUTTON PUSHER" . An IR Blaster would be nice but DISH uses a non-standard IR to control their box, or at least I can't find one that works with DISH. It's all about the smart card that prevents full use of a pc solution on digital cable and satellite.
Gizmos Gagets For Ninjas
They've been claiming for years that they were just about to release an HDTV-friendly version. If you read the press release they claim that it'll be out "sometime next year." That's what the press release from a few years ago said, too.
Bark less. Wag more.
I hate to buy something and still have to pay a monthly fee to use it ($99 for TiVo, then $12.95/mo), so I looked at the alternatives. I can pay the lifetime fee ($299+99= $398), buy a non service based PVR (Panasonic DMR-E85HS for $420) that uses TV-Guide and burns DVDs, or I can rent one from the cable company with no commitment. I figured what the hell, I can try that for a month, its only like $10...
I didn't get that far. First I would have to upgrade to "Digital Cable" adding $13 to my $42/mo standard cable. Then I have to pay $10/mo to rent the DVR, THEN I have to pay an EXTRA $5/mo to USE the DVR. For a grand total of $28/mo for a DVR, plus $42/mo for cable...
I think I'll just buy the Panasonic so I can archive shows, get a free guide, and it will still work even after all the companies file for bankruptcy. Any other suggestions that don't entail a system that requires my wife to wait for it to boot up?
Cable companies are now following a standard. You rent a CableCARD from your cable company, which allows you to decrypt (this is something like $5 a month). This card plugs into your 3rd-party box or television, and allows it to decrypt the content. TV sets are already available with the CableCARD slot.
There was a picture posted yesterday (see partway down the thread) of the back of the new CableCARD tivo at CES, and it had two card slots, indicating that it will support dual-tuner recording from encrypted cable.
Tivo's biggest problem is going to be the confusion they're creating, not decrypting the cable. For a company that designs brilliant, easy-to-use interfaces, they seem to be having a hard time designing brilliant, easy-to-understand plans. They have dual-tuner units, but only on directv. They have tivo-to-go (copy the shows to a PC) but only on non-DVD and non-direcTV units. The DirecTV boxes are slow. There's no HD on standalone units. There's no DVD-burner units for DirecTV. They have all the great features, but you literally can't get them in one unit. Their plans moving forward mention the one thing tivo fans want-- the dual-tuner standalone cablecard tivo, but seem to indicate it's a lower priority than nebulous things like "working with a PC" and the unlikely-to-succeed content downloading/selling. (hint to tivo: everybody and their brother already has pay-per-view-- why would they pay you a monthly fee just to be able to pay you again for your special PPV stuff?) If the new cablecard unit were here today, they'd have a much better chance of not losing subscribers to the vastly improved cable/satellite PVRs we're seeing from other companies.
Doesn't matter. I just ordered DVR from Cox and it will be arriving at my house today. $10.95 a month instead of $12.95 for TiVo's service and now I can sell my TiVo on eBay. I know it probably doesn't do everything that TiVo can, but my brother in law is pretty happy with his and it can record two shows at once.
I don't really see how TiVo can compete with some of the offerings by cable companies. I have Comcast cable and the DVR that they offer. Comcast's DVR costs $9.99 a month while I think TiVo is either the same or slightly more. Also, the hardware is free if you go through Comcast. One of the great things about this is I have a box that records HD content without having to spend a dime on hardware. I believe TiVo has similar hardware, but its cost is around $500 - $1000. Seems to me that it is very difficult to compete with this.
SIGFAULT
I'll try to remember to check it out.
They blew it in a way.
Comcast is rolling out their PVR solution and it kicks ass pretty heavily. The box I got from them costs me $5 a month, no additional fees.
* The software is good
* The quality rocks
* HDTV capable
* Digital Cable capable
* Dual Tuner
yeah yeah, I can't open it / hack it and so on - but that wasn't my plan anyway. It >works, works well and cost me next to nothing for dual tuner capability. Hell, for $5 a month I'll probably get two more for the other screens in the house and be able to pause them if I want.
--> Fight tyranny and repression.... read
My 10 year old watches Cartoon Network all the time, so I get a lot of it unintentionally.
The History Channel has good content, I agree, but I have found myself turning a show off half way thru when I have lost patience with the number of commercials.
Maybe commercial skipping is the reason for Tivo - but aren't they going to limit that ability?
... would be BitTorrent.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
I already went into this a while ago in a journal entry. In a nutshell, efficient p2p solutions similar to BitTorrent can greatly defray the costs of distributing content, making directly offering your movies and shows online a viable solution for small production companies, or in fact anyone. The middlemen - networks, cable providers, DVD distributors, theater chains - could be cut out entirely. With an integrated payment system and appropriate DRM, shows could cost less to the consumer, make more profit for the producers, and have convenient simultaneous worldwide releases. As the mechanisms mature, fan websites would assume the role of the networks to help popularize, filter, and organize different shows into playlists and collections. Good shows can find their fanbase without being squashed by idiot executives, and bad ones can die quickly. The concepts of "rerun", "timeslot", "syndicated", and "out-of-print" would become irrelevant. A well designed system would allow devoted fans to allow wider spread of content, by fansubbing (independently subtitling) untranslated shows from overseas, or even more complex modifications.
The best part is, it costs very little to jump on the bandwagon once the set-top box is set up to take advantage of this style of delivery. All you need is to encode and package your existing show for online distribution. You'd be foolish to ignore this easy source of existing revenue - unless of course the exising middlemen decide to play hardball while they still hold the cards. But their strong-arm tactics won't work on the tiny producers who can grow the medium.
Tivo may not succeed in their endevour, but I think this is where the nature of mass media is heading.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
You're basically correct about the propaganda. Now instead of thinking for myself I just ask "What would Alton Brown do?"
Kinda scary, but I must admit my french Onion Soup has been turning out much better.
Tivo has a head start on cable-based DVRs, but they've been slowly blowing that head start by not continuing to refine their software platform or their hardware platform. I have to admit an interest in Tivo2Go since it will support (albeit in a slightly crippled manner) DVD burning of shows, but overall their software strategy isn't focused on making the existing Tivo software do what it does smarter/better, but on a weaker strategy of broadening Tivo's use beyond its competency.
Tivo should also capitalize on the fact that user's own their hardware (and the liability of such relative to cable-rented boxen) and build in hardware expansion abilities, such as USB2/1394 HDD expansion and DVD burning add-ons. Instead we get sold the same sealed box that the cable company sells, albeit with better software.
At the very least CableCard-HD Tivos should have been announced last fall and available 2Q 2005 so that they could be as bug free as possible and in channel for the 2005 shopping season.
It's another DVR to toss on the stack on unusable. I suspect you haven't lived with a Tivo yet and somehow are basing your opinion that what you have is comparable. It isn't. Not in the slightest. Don't even get me started on the Moxi that Charter is using, that's even worse.
It has all this already.s /
http://www.mythtv.org/
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/user
What a Geek Wants:
1. A PVR that will grab your shows and is useful as an appliance for day2day usage. Include a DVD burner for mom and dad to archive their own stuff without using a computer and network. Include HD abilities.
2. A way to transfer the recorded data to a server in a format that I can use and convert. Preferably, without using TiVo's proprietary software. This will probably be sniffed and hacked a few months after TiVoToGo is available to many users.
3. Some way to organize all that video onto a Serial ATA RAID SAN where I can archive a ton of data. Have the ability to burn DVD's or convert to DiVX, etc. Edit the content to strip commercials, etc. Or more likely a TiVo box with 4-5 hot swap drive bays on the front.
4. Support for Linux, BSD, and OS X...
5. Bypass cable content providers by using BitTorrent built into a TiVo! Just do the same thing a cable company does but instead of needing a cable infrastructure or Satellites stream it over the Internet using BitTorrent as the transfer mechanism and an XML TiVo program guide. Imagine your TiVo uploading bits and pieces of your recorded shows to those people who didn't record it or watch it live. (increase the buffer on live TV from 30min upto 2 hours and store it until it's overwritten by an actual recorded show or when space is low - BitTorrent upload it's bits to other TiVo users) Whatever's popular will stream over the Internet at faster and faster speeds). Increase the standard disk space on the TiVo with a couple of those new 500GB hard disks. Encourage people to not delete shows on their TiVo as it will help the community to share the data via BitTorrent.
This whole BitTorrent concept is about to peak, there are VC companies just looking for the right company to back with an Internet delivery mechanism. TiVo could blow away the competition and probably get sued but it's coming. I would pay TiVo for television content if they can do it effectively.
1. My dream TiVo would have ethernet(fast) and USB 2.0 ports, 2 or more.
1a. The USB ports should be able to be used to add additional storage in an external hard drive.
2. The TiVo should be able to have ANY show recorded on its downloaded to your PC for conversion to any video file format you want, not the shows dictated by networks.
3. The TiVo should be able view/play more than mp3s and pictures over your home network, ie. video mpgs, divx, xvid files using plugins.
4. You should be able to copy media files onto your TiVo.
4a. You should be able manage media files on your TiVo.
5. TiVo should have the choice to download program info from other places, FREE places,they can continue to give their own if it has some value added to it.
6. Not to mention HD recording.
EXTRA. User upgradable (hackable)
Those are just the main features I would like. This might mean tey have to move away from the subscription method, except maybe for updates or lower the amount. They are not making a profit and are going to be supplanted by cable companies with their cheaper pvrs rented to customers.
Euphemism, what is that a euphemism for something.
What the fuck is this story saying? Can't someone write it coherently instead of cut and paste some bullshit motherfucker who can't speak except to shareholders masturbating over his every word?
I do pay about $70 a month for TV, including $5 a month for TiVo service (through DirecTV). Why? I'll tell you why: 90% of TV is crap, and the 10% that's worth watching is either (A) on channels other than the ones you can watch for free or (B) on at times I'm not home or not awake. Some of that good 10% is actually great. Mythbusters on Discovery is a terrific show. The Sopranos is probably the best TV drama I've ever seen. The Daily Show is brilliant. Penn & Teller's Bullshit is historically great.
Thanks to TiVo, I can setup wishlists for stuff I want to see, like movies directed by Akira Kurosawa (not likely to see many of those on free TV). And TiVo will occasionally suggest other shows it thinks I might like (I found Good Eats that way).
So let's lose the elitist bullshit attitude, shall we? Those of us who value our time understand that great entertainment can be had from television, but you need to invest in channels and a DVR to get the most of out your viewing time.
BTW: There are shows worth watching on free TV. Nova, Frontline and Scientific American Frontiers on PBS, for example. The Simpsons is back from the dead and as good as it has ever been, and while Arrested Development didn't light my fire, a lot of people love it. As much as I love watching the good shows on free TV, I don't normally have time to watch them when they're being broadcast. A DVR is even more important if you're going to limit yourself to what's available on free TV.
Maybe you enjoy spending 90% of your TV-watching time on the crap that's on when you have time to watch. If that's the case, then bully for you, but you can drop the elitist asshole attitude towards those of us who pay for good programming and a DVR to ensure we can watch it.
I don't spend ANY time watching TV. I stopped watching it about two and a half years ago, and it's been so great, I don't see myself paying for this crap again. Not a penny. In fact my current TV is an imported multi-standard (for watching foreign PAL DVDs) which can't even pick up the signal from the air. The standards are different.
My news requirements are served by the "Internets" and by NPR when I drive to work in the morning. I rely on rented DVDs for entertainment. All in all, renting DVD costs me less than $10 a month. I only watch what I want, ad-free.
Think about it, $75 a month is $900 a year. You could buy yourself something nice(r) for Christmas if you weren't watching all this crap.
Let's face facts: You're in love with your TV-free lifestyle and you smugly believe it somehow makes you superior to those of us who actually use TV for entertainment and education. I lived for over a year without a TV once, and I really didn't miss it at the time. However, I did entertain myself in other ways, including going to bars with my friends, buying music, playing video games, etc. Oh, and I worked about 70 hours a week, so I didn't have all that much free time to get bored in the first place. I know for a fact I blew more than $70 a month on alcohol and strippers during that timeframe, though.
Maybe you really only pay $10 a month to entertain yourself, but somehow, I doubt that. Methinks you've got other investments in entertainment, because if you're only renting two or three DVDs a month, you've got a lot of time on your hands in which to get bored, and there's only so much masturbating one can do before one's genitals rebel from overuse. Music (recorded and live), movies (DVD rentals and those viewed in a theater), live theater and other live entertainment events, alcohol, drugs, books, magazines, sporting events, video games, art supplies, pr0n, etc. all count in your entertainment budget. And if you're only consuming what you can get for "free," then you've still got an investment in your computer, its peripherals, your Internet connection, and any recordable media you use.
Whatever you do to entertain yourself is your choice. The fact that your entertainment options exclude TV does not make you somehow superior to those of us who've discovered that there's plenty of stuff on TV that's worth watching because it's (A) entertaining, (B) informative or (C) both. I can afford $70 a month to entertain myself and my family. It's a lot cheaper than many of the other things we do for entertainment (live comedy shows, sporting events, road and plane trips, riding roller coasters, etc.).
I would hold off on the directv tivo - they're $1000 bucks, and directv just announced that they're going to be using MPEG4 for they're new HD satellites... which means a the dish and tivo will be obsolete sooner than usual...
it's a shame - i'm a huge tivo fan, but directv is dropping them like a bad habit.
Sting's cameo-character was executed for excessive bravery, because it made life things difficult for regular un-extraordinary people trying to live simple un-extraordinary lives.
-rozzin.
is a 1-year old running around the house and trying crayons on the walls. That's what I call entertainment, dude. No strippers. No alcohol.
Oh, and he wakes up at 5:30 in the morning.
Before he was born I played guitar, built tube guitar amplifiers, did some hobby programming, and enjoyed digital photography.
The only hobby that I can find a little bit of time for now is digital photography. Would I rather be spending this time mindlessly watching TV? Somehow I don't think that would be very smart. And I can buy a pretty good lens for $900, every year.
And you just sit there, eat chips, drink beer and fart. CREATE something. ACHIEVE something. LEARN something. TV won't give you that.
If these simple ideas don't penetrate your thick skull, nothing will.