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Star Flung From Milky Way at High Speed
fenimor writes "Using the MMT Observatory in Tucson, astronomers have discovered a star three times bigger than the sun, leaving our galaxy at a speed of over 1.5 million miles per hour (670 kilometers per second). The first-of-its-kind finding not only confirms an earlier theory about the existence of such speeding stars, but also reinforces the notion that the Milky Way spins around a black hole."
It's a glider!
--
make install -not war
"We're tempted to call it the outcast star because it was forcefully tossed from its home."
Instead they are going to call it a galaxy challenged star.
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
A bundle of stars spinning round at high speed, flinging out another star to get extra speed!
Browsing with +2 to insightful posts and a higher threshold makes the average post seen seem a lot more ingenious
galactic pin ball here we come!!
Just like my screen saver predicted.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
relative to what?
It still amazes me how they can measure that kind of stuff.
Ok, now how do we apply this knowledge to do the same to Microsoft/Paris Hilton/Terrel Owens/Celine Dion.... ?
"We're tempted to call it the outcast star because it was forcefully tossed from its home."
I wondered where all those Jedi had gone to...
"So there he is, risen from the dead. Like that fella, E. T." - Father Ted Crilly
If everything around it is also moving that fast and in the same direction, then from the star's frame of reference, it's standing still.
Starlight, star bright, first-of-its-kind star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, get laid tonight.
Do your best, hope for the best, suspect the worst.
I think he might have meant if we were to be run over by a random sun moving at that speed. Could be wrong, though.
What are they measuring the star's speed against? The center of our galaxy? The earth?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Thinking about it makes me think about casting a fireball spell on black and white and flinging it at some poor villiagers.
:D
i sure wouldnt want to be in the way of THAT fireball
Why does that star hate America?
It's relative speed to us (eg. the sun, or any other mass).
In the void of space this has no consequences for the mass that is speeding. (Until it collides with something that has a different speed.)
Abruptly increasing acceleration could rip it apart though, but that's another story.
(150 millions kilometers radius) * 2 * pi / ~31 millio9ns seconds = 30km/s (~20 mps)
Trolling using another account since 2005.
A bit of googling pulled up:
Meteorites: 10ish miles per second, depending (yukon = 9.3)
Earth through space: 18.5 miles per second
Sun through space: around 155 miles per second
This thing is moving really quite scarily fast. The energy in that thing must be huge, since it's already 3 times the size of the sun.
Questions: what would the effects of the speed be? Would the galaxial dust clouds be dense enough to 'fan the flames'? How does something that gets accelerated to that speed stay together - or, how big was it before it shed all the mass that couldn't stay together!
There was a monty python song about this... *hums*
Browsing with +2 to insightful posts and a higher threshold makes the average post seen seem a lot more ingenious
They aren't torn apart for multiple reasons. One of them is that there is nothing for them to hit that will tear them apart. Going millions of mph is different in a vacuum than it is in the earth's atmosphere. To get more complex, to the star it's not moving, the rest of the galaxy is. To understand more of what I'm talking about read about the reference frame in any basics physics book.
c# - Wait, it's not pronounced coctothorpe?
I believe the article was talking about it moving twice the galaxy's escape velocity, not twice the speed of light.
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Gives a whole new meaning to a Shooting Star I guess. WillY G
Torn apart by what? If it's not accelerating, and it's not undergoing frictional drag passing through a fluid or gas cloud, etc, why would it be torn apart? There's no force acting on it to tear it apart.
(Also, what planets? I did RTFA, and didn't see any mention of planets...)
It's official. Most of you are morons.
I just wonder why the star and the planets are not torn apart by such huge speeds?
a) we're not sure it has planets.
b) it's not velocity that kills, it's acceleration.
c) this acceleration can only be explained by current theory if it was a gravitational acceleration.
d) gravitational acceleration acts on all elements of an object equally, meaning that there was no force from the acceleration itself acting to tear the object apart. Just like when you're in freefall, you don't feel gravity acting on you.
Now TIDAL gravity can tear objects apart, but since the gravitationally assisted acceleration likely happened in the galactic core, the tides were probably pretty gentle... the tidal force at a black hole's horizon can be expressed as a function of mass over surface area; the bigger the hole, the less the tides.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
the speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s
or
~600 Million MPH
~1 Billion KPH
So this thing is going 1/600 the speed of light. Pretty friggin fast. What is that theory of approaching the speed of light, and is this star doing that?
Note: I did those conversions on the fly, so back off!
I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
Please of please let it be Ashlee Simpson!
.\.\att Clare
Plugging 670*10^3m/s into Lorent'z equation:
t = t'/(sqrt(1-(v^2/c2))
where v=6.7*10^5m/s
and c = 2.99*10^8,
I got a time dilation of factor of 1.00000249. That is, time in the moving system (the star) will be observed by a stationary observer to be running slower by a factor of 1.00000249.
Not as impressive as I hoped it would be when I started the calculations.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Goddamned Puppeteers. Before you know it, they'll be fleeing with all the good stars.
As far as I understand it black holes are created when stars collapse and gravitation force depends on the amount of matter present. So why would a black hole produce a greater gravitational force at a distance than any massive star? And why would a great force at the centre of the galaxy be inclined to spit out stars at huge velocities? I assume the companion star is relevant.
They are only moving a 0.002c. I can't be bothered doing the calculations but it's probably not significant.
But that's just it. Everything else is moving in the opposite direction.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
Bruce Willis and Tom Hanks in a Great Solar roundup,
yippie-ki-yay.
Exactly. My first thought was what life would be like if Earth was arround a star like this. The only difference would be that early stargazers would eventually notice the changes in the constellations and that one part of the night sky is always much darker. This would probably result is some really interesting theories on the nature of the universe, not to mention the potential for a very lonely civilization.
Sounds like a good setting for a story actually...
I guess someone finally found a really long plank and a place to stand.
...only 0.2% c
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
The speed of light is 1.5 million miles an hour!
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
So some force made it start travelling this fast. This must have been a very strong force, and it's implied that the reason is that it was flung out by the gravity of the black hole. I'm wondering why the star was capable of staying together. I mean, It must have come pretty close to the center of the galaxy, and probably would have been destroyed by tidal forces, then 'eaten' by the super-massive BH. I can't exactly do the math to back that up though
Is there *really* a difference, physically, on an object moving at 1.5MM mph and one standing completely still, if they're not interacting with anything else? No. Their inertias are the same, so their physical properties and interactions are the same.
Momentum, however, could be a bitch. Imagine this star slamming into another star (or, a la the Death Star, a small planet in the Aldeberan system). Ka-pow, with the graphic like on the old Batman series! Would make Levy-Shoemaker look like a BB gun (you're gonna put your eye out!)...
"Only the powerful gravity of a very massive black hole could propel a star with enough force to exit our galaxy," explained Brown.
This must mean that the galaxy is actually speeding up?
Or does it just mean the stars mass is greater than it was before..?
If its neither of these, why has the star suddenly broken away from the galaxy. If its a massive black hole, surely the gravitational pull would have kept the star in rotation around, not chucked it out..
"So there he is, risen from the dead. Like that fella, E. T." - Father Ted Crilly
... for being the last one on the galactic ice-skating chain of kids^H^H^H^H stars.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Recently I saw on Discovery that many galaxies (if not all) were orbiting around supermassive black holes. And that the orbiting speed of the stars is proportional to the black holes' mass. This is known as the "M-sigma" relation.
This meant that the supermassive black holes actually contributed to the process of galaxy formation.
The theory is more or less the following:
In the center of a galaxy-sized gas cloud, a star collapsed, forming a black hole. The black hole began eating the gas around it, forming a quasar (quasars are the matter just about to be swallowed by a black hole, disintegrating and generating enormous amounts of energy).
The quasar, due to its high temperature and rotational speed, heated the surrounding gas cloud, activating a chain reaction that gave birth to all the stars in the new-forming galaxy.
Eventually, the quasar pushed away the stars, so the black hole could only be fed by the quasar itself. After that, the black hole enters a dormant phase (it has nothing else to eat), and the galaxy is already formed (of course, I'm talking about a process that takes billions of years).
Scientists from the other side of the galaxy have found evidence of a small planetary system, made of one star of about 1/3 of normal size and its 9 planets moving falling into a black hole at incredible speed.
Peace
simply owing to the earth's rotation, you are, at this moment, moving at a rate of approximately 1000 mph? Probably less since you are probably not at the equator.
Also, Due to the earth's orbit around the sun, were are traveling at approximately 67000mph.
According to findings of COBE, our galaxy is traveling at 300 k/s or about 1.34 million mph.
Why aren't you torn apart?
Starcops when you really need them?
Officer! Stop that star for speeding!
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
1.5 million mph is about equal to 1/400 of the speed of light. The reasoning is because the speed of the star is 1.5 million mph over the speed of light 600 million mph. So you get 1.4m/600m which reduces to 1/400.
WARNING: Viewing This Sig May Cause Blindness.
But it's not. From TFA: By measuring its line-of-sight velocity, it suggests that the star is moving almost directly away from the galactic center. "It's like standing curbside watching a baseball fly out of the park," said Brown.
So everything around it isn't moving at the same speed; it's moving 1.5 million MPH away from the center of the galaxy.
---
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Can a star be /.'d? If so, did we just change the orbit of 5 other planets?
There's your confirmation. At least on some Solaris servers I've seen.
At last.. Jesus is taking his ball.. AND GOING HOME!!
repent!
Fire in the hands of the village idiot is no tool, but a weapon of mass destruction
20s across Earth
2 days for the distance between Sun and Earth
1800 years to move between Solar System and Proxima Centauri
43 million years to cross the Galaxy.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
...just thinking about the kinetic energy that thing must be carrying with it makes my head spin.
All we need now is a super-massive baseball mitt on the end of a hyper-massive wooden pole hooked up to a mega-massive generator spindle.
The gift of death metal does not smile on the good looking.
No kidding. We worry about asteroids; imagine catching a star in the face.
Close enough to accelerate it that much, yet not disrupt it in the process through tidal effects? An interesting star, to say the least. Too bad we can't observe it more closely.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Just go to google and search for
"1500000mph / c"
I still maintain that it's 0.002c or 0.2% of the speed of light
Am i missing something?
Your math is flawed. The earth has a circumference of approximately 24000 miles at the equator. The earth rotates once in 24 miles. Therefore, objects at the equator are moving at approximately 1000 mph. I am in Georgia near the 34th parallel. That means I am probably traveling at somewhere around 700 - 800 mph. Just a quick guess but considerably closer than yours.
One down, 200,000,000,000 to go.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I did. It says:
Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
I thought about this before (and I'm sure people much smarter than I have thought about it much sooner, but I haven't heard about it yet :) ): what if we could get a space probe to "catch" on to an asteroid (if it was large enough) and use its gravitational pull to essentially "drag" it out into deep space along with it? Wouldn't this be much faster than using its own propulstion?
Now it gets even more interesting; what if, in the far future, we have intra-gallactic travel down pat, but intergallactic is quite different. What if we could find a star that is going to do the same exact thing as this star and "latch on" to it, having it drag us waaaaaaaaay out into deep space (and by we, I mean a probe, a space station, whatever). Would it be possible? Useful?
Speed is relative, after all.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
I thought last year they found four "drawf" galaxies in vicinity of the Milky Way, about to be absorbed.
The big Kahuna of course will be the merger with Andromeda about two billion years hence. Our mutual gravitational attraction is drawing us together. In practical terms, both galaxies are essentially empty space. However Andromeda will grow from its present size in the sky of six full moons (192 arc minutes; but just a faint smudge) to fill the entire sky. See the collision simulation here.
Who wants to be the first to claim this is simply a huge plasma burst fired by an even larger weapon? Maybe it's just some alien race out there who wants to illustrate that they too, emjoy blowing things up with oversized guns. ^_^
Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
"Fore!"
+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
Radio telescopes tuning in keep hearing murmurings about how the Galaxy was not taking the Star's ideas seriously, so it's going off to start its own Galaxy.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I approxed the number of second/year to 31 millions so my 30km/s is already approx but by a low factor, now, your 750 mph doesn't even add half a km/s to my "flawed math" so please...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Not only is it moving really, really fast. But reports indicate that it is an anti-matter star, cutting a thin chord through the edge of Known Space.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I once read a book about some 'intelligences' which could live in Stars, unfortunately they didn't like each other very much and would constantly fight.
As part of one of these fights one of the intelligences caused the Earth to accelerate in the same way this star is accelerating on a course which took it out of the Milky Way and into empty space. Eventually it was travelling so fast that nothing from the solar system could possibly ever make it back to the Milky Way.
It was told through the eyes of an unfortunate man who kept on being cryongenically frozen and unfrozen over a period of millions of years as the planet became ever more chilly and isolated from everything else.
It was a great book and I wish I could remember what it was called since I have wanted to re-read for a while now.
That's not entirely true. The force excerted by gravity goes as 1/r^2, where r is the distance between both masses.
If you have for example two large m1 and m2 each attached one end of a very long pole in a gravitational field caused by another mass M, the mass nearest to the M would experience a slightly stronger force than the other one. So that could, in theory, break the pole.
What you're talking about is tidal gravity. And tidal gravity is exactly what caused one star of a companion to be accelerated away while the other one was captured into an orbit.
On the scale of the objects themselves, though, the tides were probably extremely gentle. AFAIK companion stars are generally light-months apart. Even if this star was a planetary system, it's nearest planets are probably only a few light-minutes away...
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
my swivel chair revolves around a black hole.
The rest of the universe is moving.
It's all relative.
-- Boycott Shell
First line should read "Your first comment is odd - the milky way is the galaxy.
*smacks back of own hand with ruler for bad grammar. Twice.*
Browsing with +2 to insightful posts and a higher threshold makes the average post seen seem a lot more ingenious
I found more info on this, including more numbers, from this Reuters article. And by the way, it's moving at about 0.002c, which is pretty fast for something so huge. However, if you really want to be impressed, the gas in blazar jets moves at about 0.999c.
For those, who didnit get it.
Puppeteers are alien race from novel "Ringworld" by Larry Nivel. They were moving their home star system to a new galaxy to escape from the Core explosion.
When they quoted the mass of the star, did they take into account General Relatively. Namely, that something traveling that fast increases in mass as time slows down.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
They are coming after Vin Diesel... In other news a group of 20 people dressed in full Nike running suits just committed mass suicide in hopes that the ETs traveling in the wake of the asteroid take them to their home planet of Stoopidia.
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
This isn't the Fleet Of Worlds - that would be a set of planets with fusion reactors in orbit.
Obviously, this is Cueball- and woe betide anybody who attempts a landing there - you won't be pissing a Monolith off, you will be converting yourself (and a chunk of the antimatter planet) into energy.
www.eFax.com are spammers
I thought it was well established that at the center of the galaxy there is a planet, that God is on that planet, and that (as it is becoming abundantly clear), he needs a fucking starship!
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
From the SDSS J090745.0+24507 Daily News:
Cheers
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
There was a book about almost exactly this, the only difference being the agency causing the stars acceleration was an alien species who lived in stars and the fact that they were constantly accelerating the Earth until it was travelling so fast the rest of the Universe had disappeared to a tiny dot in the sky.
It did kind of emphasise the ultimate pointlessness of a civilization which was doomed to death by the eventual destruction of the sun and which was unable to travel anywhere outside the solar system or indeed interact with the rest of the universe at all.
I believe that the black hole that is HP's board of directors has sent the star Carlis Major on a very high-speed path to a Different Place.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Yeah. At that point, the star would probably just be catching us in the face.
This thing takes about an hour to move the distance equal to it's diameter.
Um, excuse me, but as anyone can tell you, the universe revolves around ME! Therefore the sun is going around me really fast, not the other way around.
Sheesh.
Vendela, Kate, Tyra, feed me more peeled grapes while you finish my massage.
Abruptly increasing acceleration could rip it apart though, but that's another story.
... or abruptly decreasing acceleration for that matter... it's called jerk.
When you fall off a tall building and splat on the ground, it's not the change in speed (velocity) of the impact, nor is it the change in velocity (acceleration), but the change in acceleration (jerk) that kills you.
*sigh*, it's always the jerk that kills you.
*yawn*
I wonder where the star travel to.
Will it still be burning by the time it gets a new galaxy?
It is star that is expected to go nova or turn into a brown/white dwarf? I wonder what will happend to the star when is not longer confined a Galaxy. Will the lack of other graviational bodies have an effect on its life/death?
My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
No offense to the person who submitted this article, but do you think you could refrain from mixing your units of measurement (or time, for that matter). From a readability, it is much harder to following "x miles per hour (x meters per second)". People do this all the time and it drives me nuts! Suggestions would be:
Not trying to be an ass, but it just makes more sense when you read it. Thanks.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_an_Ass so i did!
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
b) it's not velocity that kills, it's acceleration.
huh... I just posted something about this to another comment...
that's not actually correct... it's not acceleration that kills, it's jerk (change in acceleration)
*yawn*
star three times bigger than the sun, leaving our galaxy at a speed of over 1.5 million miles per hour (670 kilometers per second).
;)
Thats only 1 million miles per hour faster then a UMD flying out of a Sony PSP
Richard Simmons!
its been removed already!
those mods are always ruining my fun :(
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
LOL, thought you were approximating the speed due to rotation not orbit... Sorry.
Longer answer: "The catch" is the catching. Imagine 'skitching' on a bullet train...
- Get maximum benefit by standing still, but suffer maximum acceleration. You'd need a HUGE shock chord.
- Get minimum accerelation by matching the speed, minimize the shock, but it costs you more energy to match the speed at an acceptable velocity difference.
I know yer asking about "the gravity of the asteroid", but most asteroids gravity is so low that you would have to be nearly their speed to even get a boost.*** IF *** we had a tractor beam that we could feather in the attractive, it would work. But then, we could just aim it at Mars, wait 23 minutes and HANG ON! We could also 'lasso the moon' at moonset and paraglide up into space.
And leave "intergalactic planetary" to the Beastie Boys. At that rate, the outcast star will still take a BILLIONish Years to get to Andromeda.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"The laws of orbital mechanics are as unforgiving as the laws of Supply-Side Ecomnomics"
I'd bet real latinum that what they detected was a Kemplerer Rosette!
so does this mean there can be things - stars, asteroids, any heavenly objects - flung towards earth or our solar system, so sudden that we wouldnt be prepared, or at least know before it's too late? Or would we know beforehand as potential threats are setting up?
Do you realize how fast we're going...?
[cue music]
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine thousand miles an hour.
It's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
'Round the sun that is the source of all our power.
Now the sun, and you and me, and all the stars that we can see,
Are moving at a million miles a day,
In the outer spiral arm, at fourteen thousand miles an hour,
Of a galaxy we call the Milky Way.
If this star had planets orbiting around it, as it got flung away from the black hole - would they get stripped away, or would they stay with the star?
Just curious.
No sig for you.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I wonder if the Star had planets. What would have happened to the solar system that surrounded the star? It would be interesting to see an animation of what this process looked like. If any of you Astro-Physics majors want to try and describe this for me that'd be great.
WURD!!
it's Carly Fiorina being ejected from HP .. why they didn't do this sooner probably only comes down to how long it took for the board members to get their Meeelion dollars in bonuses for the Compaq merger..
A computer without Microsoft is like ice cream without ketchup.
Even more if you stand up and hold out your arms! (But they probably have a sign up to keep your arms and legs inside your reference frame at all times.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I'd hate to mess with the bouncer that did this.
--- Ban humanity.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
How do we know that the star is being ejected from the solar system? According to relativity, to an observer in the galaxy, a star being ejected from the galaxy looks the exactly the same as using the star as the frame of reference and the whole of the milky way galaxy is moving away from it. Since we didn't actually see where this star was coming from, the star could have been holding still for a long time while the galaxy far,far away came stampeding past like the wildebeast stampede in Lion King. To us stuck here on earth it would look exactly the same either way. So its not so much tht the star is being ejected, but that it survived the stampede.
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m0smithslash
http://www.ferociousflirting.com
"Informative".
:) Since I'm not an astronomer, my knowledge regarting this topic is limited.
Thanks for the info on quasars
Bad stars, bad stars! What ya gonna do when they come for you...?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Assuming that this star was accellerated to this speed by slingshotting around a supermassive blackhole (like the one at the center of our galaxy): How long would it take at this speed to move from the center of the galaxy to the edge of the galaxy?
And more importantly, how much advance warning would we have if some star shot towards us from the center of our galaxy at a similar speed?
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Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't it equally valid to say that our entire galaxy is fleeing away from this star? From the point of view of a planet (yeah, right) orbiting this star, it would seem as though they were stationary, and the entire milky way was fleeing from them.
Right?
Education is the silver bullet.
Must have found about Bush's re-election.
Eminent scientist Dr. Ritchie Blackmore already proved the existence of such a fast star in his seminal treatise "Machine Head." If I remember correctly it was somewhere in the first chapter.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Just remember that with relitivity involved it could be the galaxy that is moving. The star could have just stopped.
Why aren't you torn apart?
Lions only eat Christians ?
Wow! You're your own gammar nazi!
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Ahhh, thank you, I have been wondering what my next nasty torture should be for those pesky secret agents always crawling around my lab.
Bwaaa Haaaahaaahaaahahahah.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
That is all
"jerk" or change in acceleration kills because it's generally an order of magnitude or two greater than the final acceleration. But it's still the acceleration that kills you.
sudden changes in acceleration have other effects that can kill, especially w.r.t. safety harnesses and whatnot, because those kinds of systems generally store potential energy in tension systems in order to help our fragile organic selves to deal with the acceleration best; when the vector direction of acceleration changes, this potential energy is released, and at least some part of it will reinforce the new acceleration temporarily.
Of course neither of these kinds of acceleration-effect magnifying effects applies to a planetary system undergoing only inertial accelerations; an object undergoing gravitational acceleration experiences the change of inertia at every point in its mass, and gravitational acceleration changes smoothly and continously as you move through spacetime.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
Yes, but that would make you a jerk, so the poster is correct!
Seriously though, what kills you is the difference in acceleration of the top and bottom - which is what the previous person said.
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
Why don't the /. moderators quit pointing people to the physorg tarpit. The never credit their sources or provide links to them...
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/press/pr0505.html
'cause black holes don't have a size limit.
Do you mean that they don't have a mass limit? Because they definitely have a size limit. They're 0-dimensional.
Or are you thinking of the Schwarzschild radius?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
that guy really is an arse!
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
it's just a Really Really Big Spaceship. Really Big.
"sweet dreams are made of this..."
You're right; I wasn't clear in my original post. I meant "everything local to the star". I was grooving on the idea that life could still exist in the solar system created by this star, provided the planet rotating around the star wouldn't get bombarded by stuff flying into the solar system. If the space between galaxies isn't littered with matter, then this seems a possibility.
It's still only getting 64 miles per ton of hydrogen
Have GNU . . . Will Travel
I guess since this object is leaving our galaxy forever our galaxy has a kinetic energy leak. That's sad.
I can't remember its name but this reminds me of story I read some years ago about a human colony in another solar system that has its star and planet pushed out of the galaxy at great speed. In the story it was not a black hole but some kinda superbeing that pushed them off.
The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data.
There was a book about almost exactly this
Do you remember the title? It sounds like interesting reading.
It did kind of emphasise the ultimate pointlessness of a civilization which was doomed to death by the eventual destruction of the sun
Four and a half billion years isn't enough time to come up with technology to move the sun back towards the rest of the universe or figure out the light-speed problem??
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
The point is, it doesn't matter how quickly you got to that 20 G's of accelleration,or if you had always been at it.
Imagine you are a human somehow born in a rocket accellerating at a constant 20 G's. No change in accelleration. You've always been accelerating at 20 G's, and always will. Ok? No change in acceleration. 20, period. It's now 10 seconds after you've been born. Your blood is now starting to accumulate in the 'lowest' parts of your body. Why? Your human heart cannot pump blood against a force of 20 G's. Your brain starts running out of oxygen. In a few seconds you pass out. Then in another minute or so, you die. All this time you have been going at a constant acceleration of 20 G's, and all parts of your body are under exactly that exact same acceleration. You are however, quite dead. Acceleration alone *can* kill. No change in acceleration is needed.
Vader is back... and boy, is he pissed!
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
A little know intergalatic terrorist organization has claimed responsibility for the plasma burst observed. Secretary of State Rice could not be reached for comment. However, President Bush is ramping up space exploration with the intention of invading the terrorists home system.
Depends on your reference frame.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Someone went and taunted the happy fun ball.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Or it's evidence of the opposite, that galaxies are not coalescing, but expanding.
traveled.
Demand payment for the millions of miles you travel each year.
All your base are belong to Google.
Seriously though, yes, that can kill you, but acceleration alone can as well. See the other reply in this thread. No change or difference in accelerations is needed to kill you.
Since they indicate that this has or is leaving the Galaxy I assume it is already pretty close to the edge of the Galaxy in which case it is probably much to far away to use that technique. It would be like trying to judge the speed of a bullet from the perspective of the individual holding the gun.
I believe we should deign to this study for the definitive effects of acceleration.
:)
*yawn*
G'nok: "Dammit, G'nariak -- I told you to calibrate the Star Destructor targeting computers yesterday!"
G'nariak: "Sorry, sir. I had to take the wife to her obstetrician yesterday during lunch; I was in a rush; it won't happen again."
G'nok: "Damned right it won't. The Earthlings SAW the Star Destructor test! They were supposed to EXPERIENCE the test!"
G'nariak: "Again, sorry sir -- I'll make it up to you."
G'nok: "You damn well will -- we have to explain to G'tariak why his vacation home at the edge of the galaxy isn't there anymore. Dumbass!"
IronChefMorimoto
Kelvin is not a relative scale and thus it has no degrees. Celsius and Fahrenheit are relative scales and have degrees.
Overall your point is correct.
we are all doomed. Doomed I tell you!
You can't handle the truth.
Wandering star
For whom it is reserved
the blackness
the darkness
forever...
Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
I agree with what you said, and I agree with what I said - the difference is in the interpretation. You talked about blood pooling, for example. Blood pools because if your body is being accelerated and your blood isn't, it "resists" the change in velocity. However if your blood is accelerated also there is no problem.
As an example, place an unlucky astronaut in space a few parsecs from an ultramassive black hole, such that he is accelerating at 10000 m/ss. He will experience weightlessness - and be fine (until tidal forces tear him apart, that is).
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
"the star could have been holding still for a long time while the galaxy far,far away came stampeding past like the wildebeast stampede"
;)
So exactly how many stars do you need for a stampede? Is it three or more? Is there a minimum speed or what?
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Just don't tell that a traffic cop...
The bad news is it's heading straight for us.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
what is the cumulative vector velocity of a human being at rest at the equator? Depends on what you consider to be stationary: all the stars and galaxies are also moving, remember. Relative to a frame of reference in which the cosmic background radiation is broadly isotropic, we're moving at about 600 km/s.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Sun through space: around 155 miles per second
The star moves at 417 miles per second, which is double the galactic escape velocity. That means the Sun moves at 74% of the galactic escape velocity!
But wait, shouldn't escape velocity be different depending on where in the galaxy you're located? If you're at the very edge you'd need less velocity to escape (since there's less desceleration) than if you were near the center, right?
When you fall off a building, just before hitting the ground your speed is X and just after hitting the ground your speed is 0. This is a change in velocity (ie, an acceleration). It is this large acceleration (something typically talked about as G-forces) that kills you. More specifically, the change in velocity is experienced on one side of the body sooner than the rear, causing fatal body deformations (ie, the "Splat"). If you could magically experience the change in velocity at all points of your body at the same time, then you would not "Splat"... but the stopping force is applied unevenly, causing this "jerk". I had never heard this referred to as "jerk" before, but that makes sense now.
-ZOD-
... that's the name of the black hole in the center of our galaxy, milky way. At least according to Perry Rhodan.
All togther now!
It's a great big universe, and we're all really puny
We're just tiny little specks about the size of Mickey Rooney
It's all big and black and inky,
And we're just small and dinky
It's a big universe,
And we're not!
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Thought I'd mention for those curious, that's from the old cartoon Animaniacs. Let me see if I can Google a complete transcript:
_ Universe/yakkos_universe.html
Hey, I'm Feeling Lucky works:
http://alpha.lasalle.edu/~smithsc/Astronomy/Yakko
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
This is a test.
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
As for his body being accelerated and his blood isn't... That's only the case in as much as right now your body is trying to accelerate at 9.8 m/s/s toward the center of the earth. Your bone structure and muscles lets you resist it. Your blood is also trying to accelerate towards the center of the earth at the same rate. Your arteries and veins and your heart let you resist that as well.
Your body and blood aren't accelerating at different rates. They both deal with the same acceleration in the same way, with it acting as 'weight'. The problem with weight/acceleration is that your body was designed to handle only so much of it.
Now let's kick it up a notch. blood pooling...
Imagine a test pilot in a centrafuge machine. It takes him up to 6 G's and holds him there for an hour. Just like he was on a planet with 6x earth's gravity.
His body is accelerating at 6 G's. ;)
His blood is also accelerating at 6 G's (otherwise it would all leak out the back of his chair and that would be a 'bad thing'
His blood resists accelerating as you say, but so does his body (Bodies at rest tend to stay at rest tend to stay at rest, bodies in motion tend to stay in motion and all that). Nevertheless, the back of his chair is causing the lot of them to accellerate at 6 G's.
His heart, however is now trying to pump blood that 'weighs' 6x as much. The heart can't pump the heavier blood as easily or 'high' (relatively) as it could normally. His veins can't constrict as much as they normally would to force blood back into the right areas of the body, because the blood is pushing against them with much greater force. The veins also have valves to prevent blood from flowing back the wrong way, but these may give way under the additional pressure.
The blood is not accelerating at a different rate from the body, it's still in his veins and artieris, and so still in his body. His body is being accellerating at 6 G's and the blood, being trapped inside, is going along for the ride. But it acts as a much heavier fluid. So it starts to pool in the lower extremeties since it can't be pumped efficiently. Depending on how strong his heart is (and resilient his veins are), he might be able to handle 6 G's for a good long while. But if they aren't in quite as good of shape he might not be able to pump the blood well enough and might black out after a few seconds or minutes.
Once again the blood isn't accelerating at a different rate than the body (both are resisting being accelerated), anymore than your blood and body accelerate at different speeds on earth, it just has a higher 'weight' then the body was structurally designed to pump.
The next stage is to crank up the centrifuge chair/other-planet to 1000g's density. 1000 G's. Now the test pilot's ribs are trying to hold up themselves and the muscles etc attached to them. But they weight 1000x as much. The bones werent' constructed to hold such a high weight, so they snap. The 'body' isn't accelerating at a different rate than the... 'body', but it breaks down because it wasn't designed for such mechanical forces. Everything is being accelerated (and trying to resist it). Everything is accelerating at the same rate. It just can't handle the rate.
... by flinging itself around that black hole.
Looks like Kirk was full of shit.
no comment
SDSS J090745.0+24507 will escape the galaxy; will it also escape our Local Group of galaxies?
Further, the Local Group of galaxies is moving at about 600 km/s (relative to the cosmic microwave background) in the direction of the Hydra-Centaurus supercluster.
Will SDSS J090745.0+24507 end up there?
It would be interesting to see where this thing is going. If it hits anything, it would see that it's going to splatter like an egg against a brick wall, but much more violently. Wonder when we'll see that?
I think the Earthlings were too interested in fighting each other and working out how to live underground to anything constructive.
Someone else later in this thread has posted the title of the book, I think it is by Frederick Pohl and is called "The World At The End Of Time"
Ok, sk8rboi left the bowl faster than he started. How? He got the added speed from the biker. Without the biker 'orbitting' the star, the sk8r would have hit the edge of the bowl with very little velocity left.
Galactic centered Black holes allow stars to orbit them very very fast, even in circles. But a star that falls IN past the black hole and then whips around an already-orbitting star get the total of falling into the center PLUS the speed of the orbitting star.
You don't get a slinghot with only one star, even a black hole. That whole thing with the Bird of Prey and the whales is just wrong.
Starglider29a
If time is money, does the Lorenz Equation dilate money as well?
Well they say its trajectory is coming pretty much directly from the centre of our galaxy, which supports their galactic black hole slingshot theory.
It's still possible that it's an extra-galactic object that just happened to intersect with the centre, but that requires us to assume a large coincidence, and we know what Occam has to say about that.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
Second, how exactly would mere velocity tear the start apart?
Acceleration past the rated speed, or rapid acceleration after sustaining heavy damage (Klingon attack). This is why during peaceful times the Enterprise can easily pass warp 9, but after sustaining a klingon photon torpedo attack (with no casualties mind you) warp four could easily "tear her apart".
If you spent a little less time studying and a little more time in front of the tube...you would know stuff like this.
There's a subtle distinction between acceleration and what most people think of as the force of gravity/acceleration.
The problem in your rocket and centrifuge analogies is that they don't actually accelerate all the parts of the system evenly. Someone accelerating due to gravity in free fall can accelerate at 1000G and feel nothing. If your rocket was individually coupled to each and every atom of the astronaut, there would also be no problem for the astronaut.
The problem is when you introduce a floor, chair, whathaveyou. Now there is a normal force due to electrostatic forces (solid object) but it only acts on the contact surface. So it pushes on your butt and in turn all the parts of your body push back against the acceleration (or inertia, depending on your mass frame) of gravity/rocket/centrifuge. So what kills you is the difference in acceleration between your body parts and the floor: delta a, or jerk.
-Ryan C.
Again its all relative. To the average slash dot reader, two stars headed your way at high speed would look like a stampede. Of course, to the stars, it would appear they were being attacked by a very small bug and they would spend the rest of eternity trying to figure out what they had done to deserve such treatment. The relative speed of a stampede is computed based on the overall relative speeds of the stampedee and the stampeders. Someone with more free time than I could work out the math.
Your friend and well-wisher
m0smithslash
http://www.ferociousflirting.com
This puts me in mind of the sun orbiting Great A'Tuin - even though that sun is much, much smaller.
Does the star occasionally become obscured by an odd, giant turtle shaped object? Is it moving in a slightly screw-like trajectory? Does an elephant occasionally lift a leg to let it pass?
Terry Pratchett, this star's for you. :)
His name is Robert Paulsen...
Just because its unlikely that doesn't mean it won't happen. The chances of winning a lottery are millions to one against, yet someone does win. Also, its highly impropable that life exists on any given planet. Yet, here we are reading slash dot (notice lack of reference to intelligent). And it dangerous to generalize from a specific instance.
Your friend and well-wisher
m0smithslash
http://www.ferociousflirting.com
In case people don't get this joke... The rate of change of acceleration is technically called "jerk."
Acceleration doesn't kill. You could accelerate at 1 billion G's, and so long as every part of your body was accelerating at the same rate, you would feel nothing.
What kills you is spatial force gradients. Suppose you skydive without a parachute. You smack into the ground. You die, not because you experience a gigantic acceleration but because the acceleration is only applied to the body surfaces which contacted the ground first. That force is then transmitted through your body, and because your body is not infinitely rigid, it deforms.
You got the answer kind of right when you said that "gravitational acceleration acts on all elements of an object equally," but in truth there is nothing special about gravity compared to other forces. It is the fact that the acceleration is constant across an object which is the real key here. In practice, only gravitational forces have this property but it isn't something intrinsic to gravity, per se.
But, I know what you're saying. It's not bullshit. But there are some misnomers and misconceptions. I will try to expound on what I know you are saying.
- In general we are talking about a probe escaping Earth. Say, off to Saturn...
- After that, we are escaping the sun, as in Pioneer and V'Ger (before the upgrade
;-). In those cases, maximum velocity for minimum propellant is the goal.
- Orbits whose ellipses are the same major axis have equal period.
- High eccentricity orbits reach out farther than circular orbits of same major axis/period
- High eccentricity orbits require higher velocity near the planet/sun
- Until you hit escape velocity (a parabola or hyperbola) you are in a long ellipse
If you want to get a probe "out there" you want to burn at periapsis (Earth: perigee or Sun:perihelion). That leaves the peri at the same point and raises the other end. Do that enough times and you get escape on the last pass. Delta-V at any other point on the orbit will raise the peri and lower the apogee/aphelion. Propellant wasted.Often, satellites will burn at perigee, orbit around and repeat. This allows the same amount of propellant to get your there, but without the mass of a larger engine/structure. Smaller motor more often is more efficient, just takes longer. Nothing is free.
In short, you don't get more Delta-V, but you get it where you want it.
--
"Illustrative Myth: Once you are out of earth orbit, you are halfway to anywhere."
OK, I went and looked it up, and wouldn't you know it, Tired and Emotional is right. Maybe T&E is a real astronomer.
h ot
Anyway, it turns out that all of my assumptions about how the gravitational slingshot works were wrong. Go figure. It turns out that the motion of the planet during the period of gravitational influence (or lack of in the case of this black hole), is the where the speed boost comes from (or doesn't, in the case of this 'stationary' black hole). I always figured that you got the speed boost from being pulled in by the object's gravity and then somehow kept the extra speed on the way out. Doesn't make much sense in hindsight.
Thus my comment about the stars slingshot being similar to our spaceprobe slingshots was wrong. As was my comment about the binary not being critical - as T&E posted above it is probably the only way it could work.
I should have just stuck to saying that you can have really really big black holes.
Good description of the gravitational slingshot at the wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_slings
So, please mod my grandparent response back down to oblivion. Thanks. I will stick to geekdom now and try and avoid orbital mechanics.
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
it is the galaxy that is moving.
Oh well, what the hell...
The astronomer who made this discovery turns out to be my brother-in-law.
What I find to be fascinating (as does he) is the massive amount of press coverage this story is getting. He's already been interviewed by the BBC, CBC, a French science magazine, and the list goes on and on.
I do think that the whole thing is very interesting, but I do wonder what it is about something three times the size of the sun moving at over one million miles an hour that makes people interested in something like this. Bizarre!
Maybe it just looks like it's being flung out of the galaxy...
Alternatively it could be US flying at great speed toward to the Black Hole.
"Love is like pi - natural, irrational, and very important." (Lisa Hoffman)
.002236 c
70e808a22cb027cde4a6abddf6435d55
> How do we know that the star is being ejected from the solar system?
:)
It wasn't ejected. It voluntarily stepped down, just like Fiorina
hawk
I tried to warn NASA about this, but Noooo, they wouldn't listen, and opened fire on Mars with those "probes" anyway.
.
I'll get the last laugh, but it won't last very long unless i get some really good time dilation going. .
hawk
I wonder if she will be moving as fast when she hits the exit.
Your friend and well-wisher
m0smithslash
http://www.ferociousflirting.com
I would hazard a guess that any change in the shape or direction of the galaxy and hence its stars, by interacting with another would cause orbital shifts among every stars orbiting bodies. By using our example of life on this planet...most any orbital change would be cataclismic to life as we know it. On the plus side new opportunities for life might occur.
1.5 million mph is equivalent to 416.7 miles per second. And for the correct SI units, its about
671000 m/s
or 2.4 million km / hour
So, its less than 3 times as fast as our sun's journey through space.
Don't you just love it when people amaze you by adjusting the units! Nevertheless, its an interesting phenomenan. Its still got a hefty pace.
Since we didn't actually see where this star was coming from, the star could have been holding still for a long time while the galaxy far,far away came stampeding past like the wildebeast stampede in Lion King. To us stuck here on earth it would look exactly the same either way. So its not so much tht the star is being ejected, but that it survived the stampede.
Nice theory but incorrect. If you read TFA: "Less than 80 million years were needed for the star to reach its current location, which is consistent with its estimated age.".
If it only was sitting in space waiting for the galaxy to stampede by its age would be much, much higher.
Nyh
I think they have made a mistake.The fabric of space-time should not allow it.At that speed it would be spiraling.It would not have survived the traffic near the blackhole.Imagine a universe with only two galaxies.They would move in a figure 8 pattern. space-time would shape the galaxies into a disk when they are close to each other .When they are at their farthest positions they would look like footballs.Spiral galaxies dont shoot jets from their poles because the fabric is loose.
I guess I spend more time infront of the tube than you :P
Warp speeds are created by sucessive warp shells like those nesting dolls
That is true. I bow to your knowledge my pointy eared friend.
"There goes my left arm. How am I going to operate my digital watch now?"
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.