Mitsubishi LED Projector: Small, Cheap, Durable

mcaycedo writes "This new projector is my top number 1 "must have" gadget. The reasons: price (US$699), size (fit in your hand), convenience (uses AC, batteries, card adaptor) and duration (lamp life:20000 hours). The cons: only SVGA (800x600), lumens (N/A)" There are tons of applications for a LED projector of this size, too: in cars, integrated into portable video players, information displays of all kinds ... and as resolution and brightness improve, even more will emerge.

Comments

Only, you say...

[inertia187]

"only SVGA (800x600)"

My 80486DX4 is only VGA (640x480), you insensitive clod!

Re:Only, you say...

[game kid]

My 80486DX4 is only VGA (640x480), you insensitive clod!

My TI-83 is only 96x64, you insensitive clod!

I do like the fit-in-your-hand capability of both the '83 and the projector, though. If they could do 1920x1080 (and at least 60Hz progressive--my Dell e770s can do so without blowing up) I'd be really happy.

Re:Only, you say...

[Anonymous Coward]

-1 offtopic, +1 funny, +1 underrated, +3 mod with an axe to grind.

Re:Only, you say...

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, your 486DX4 sucks. My 486 had 1MB Cirrus Logic graphics and could do 1024x768. Of course, the monitor was a whole other issue...

Re:Only, you say...

[inertia187]

My 486 had 1MB Cirrus Logic graphics and could do 1024x768.

Yes, I'm sure, but at the expense of color depth. 16 colors is bad, umkay? Umkay.

Re:Only, you say...

[bofkentucky]

6 of them would do the trick for 1920x1080p TV, laid out in a 3 col by 2 row array. 1 Nvida Quadro NVS 280 (AGP/PCI-E) $147 and 1 Nvidia NVS 400 (PCI) $354 would give you the 6 outputs and then a HDTV card of your choosing ($230 for the MyHD MDP-120), the PC can be any MicroATX or larger with 2 PCI slots + 1 AGP/PCI-E, its just a matter of how many HDD's you want for PVRing from that box.

Re:Only, you say...

[Anonymous Coward]

So for the 5+ Grand you just quoted me, I can get a HDTV with more hassle and headache than one bought off the store shelf? Thanks, but I'll pass.

Re:Only, you say...

[bofkentucky]

It would be practical for large format setups, 100+ inch screens and such, for your average home user it is overkill.

Re:Only, you say...

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news:

A 747 would be practical for large airlines, 500+ passenger carrying capacity and such, for your average private pilot, it is overkill.

Re:Only, you say...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a clod, you... insensitive somebody.

Re:Only, you say...

[Living WTF]

> > My 80486DX4 is only VGA (640x480), you insensitive clod!
>
> My TI-83 is only 96x64, you insensitive clod!

What about Blinkenlights, which is fscking big, but sitll only 18x8, you insensitive clods!

Re:Only, you say...

[Bloater]

My wristwatch is only... Goddam!

Re:Only, you say...

[slaker]

*MY* 486 had a 4MB ET4000 in it, so I could view porn in 1280x1024x32bpp on a glorious Mag DX17F 17" display.

Yes, I spent $1000 on a big monitor and fancy ISA graphics card in 1994 just so I could look at smut from USENET better. And I'd do it again.

FP

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats a "tour hand"?

Re:FP

[PMJ2kx]

The one that leads you on the tour of the product!

Take that whatever direction you want...

N/A?

[yotto]

TFA is already slashdotted, so I can't R it.

Why is Lumens (N/A) a con? And what does Lumens (N/A) mean? it doesn't use light?

Re:N/A?

[somethinghollow]

Must have been running the server on the projector...

Nuck Nuck Nuck... When will we get rid of these damn memes.

Re:N/A?

[FunkyELF]

I'm guessing that Lumens (N/A) is a possible con because it isn't listed. It has to use light, its an L.E.D. (Light Emmiting Diode).

I think it simply means that it hasn't been tested for light output in the unit of Lumens

~Eric

Re:N/A?

[JabberWokky]

Lumens not available... the brightness of the unit was not known or available to the writer at the time of the article's creation.

--
Evan

Re:N/A?

[sm4kxd]

Lumens is a reference to the brightness of the image. I'm assuming (N/A) means they have no specific number for it, but IIRC 2000 is an average projector.

Re:N/A?

[syukton]

I got to read the first page of the article. It is pretty impressive. I didn't get to the dirty details but I'm pretty sure this uses three of TI's DLP chips. I have seen this sort of thing coming for a while now; the DLP chip is truly a technology marvel.

Now, as far as the Lumens are concerned... Lumens are a way to measure the light which is isotropically radiated from a given source. A projector doesn't isotropically radiate though, its emission is highly directional. For this reason, lumens are a very crappy way of defining, technically, the "brightness" of a projector. But, since people are used to buying lightbulbs according to the market-ese of Lumens, that's how Projectors are rated as well. Since the projector uses LEDs (Luxeons, from the sound of it) as the light source, I suppose that's why they're lacking a fancy lumen number to throw around: because LEDs, as highly directional light sources, are measured in Candles (abbreviated "cd" or millicandles as "mcd") and not measured in Lumens.

They'll probably make up a marketable number before too long, fret not.

Re:N/A?

[reynhout]

Some people use "N/A" to mean "not available".
Others use it to mean "not applicable"...which are really two very different things.

Sometimes, this causes me great consternation.

Re:N/A?

[yotto]

Thank you all for definining lumens for me, but I know what a lumen is. What I couldn't understand is why it's a con, and I misread N/A as 'not applicable' not 'not available' (Why I hate N/A in general).

Not having the brightness of the screen listed in the adver^H^H^H^H^Harticle isn't a point against the device.

Re:N/A?

[Entouchable]

professionally speaking N/A should be Not Applicable, but yeah you're right, sometimes it gets incorrectly used as Not Available.

Re:N/A?

[clem.dickey]

And what does Lumens (N/A) mean? it doesn't use light?

That would explain the really long (20000 hour!) bulb life.

Re:N/A?

[rcw-home]

I suppose that's why they're lacking a fancy lumen number to throw around: because LEDs, as highly directional light sources, are measured in Candles (abbreviated "cd" or millicandles as "mcd") and not measured in Lumens.

LED's do isotropically radiate. It's just that a lot of them have mirrors and/or lenses molded in with the diode (much like a flashlight has a reflector around the incandescant bulb) to be directional.

Not to detract from your point about lumens vs. candelas, but with either system there is a certain amount of light radiated in all directions before the optics focus it. Whatever logic applies to defining the specifications for one applies to the other as well.

Re:N/A?

[linuxwrangler]

I'm pretty sure this uses three of TI's DLP chips

Actually, it's probably cheaper and easier to use the "color-wheel" method only instead of a spinning wheel you just cycle the three LEDs.

Too bad it's resolution falls shy of HTDV but give it time.

Re:N/A?

[ackthpt]

TFA is already slashdotted, so I can't R it.

Me too, neither =(

Why is Lumens (N/A) a con? And what does Lumens (N/A) mean? it doesn't use light?

The author probably slashdotted the site while writing and couldn't fill that part in.

Don't expect it to be bright enough to use as a Bat-Signal. OTOH, it's probably just the thing for those home slide-shows, which people wouldn't do at the cost of other projectors. Some may winge about the resolution, but I think 800x600 is good enough for most things as when I'm demoing apps, I target an 800x600 desktop, because most people around here are still using that even if higher resolution is available.

Re:N/A?

[syukton]

Ok, I'll rephrase it then: packaged LEDs tend to be highly directional. The only non-directional packaged LED I know of is the inverted cone style (or the side-emitting Luxeon style).

(linky to some inverted cone LEDs: http://www.quickar.com/discrete.php)

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you all for definining lumens for me, but I know what a lumen is.

It's aluminum as pronounced by G. W. Bush.

Re:N/A?

[Pinkoir]

Lumens are a way to measure the light which is isotropically radiated from a given source

Not to nit-pick (that's a pun...get it?) but what you are thinking of is referred to as "mean spherical candela". Lumens are simply the photometric equivilent of Watts (that is to say they are watts normalised to take into account the photopic curve which describes the spectral responsivity of the human eye) and are thus an excellent means of describing the optical output of a source or system.

...LEDs, as highly directional light sources, are measured in Candles (abbreviated "cd" or millicandles as "mcd") and not measured in Lumens.

Again I must disagree. As an illumination engineer I rely heavily on the Lumen ratings for the LEDs with which I design since that value is the integrated amount of light available from the source and is not related to the distribution of the emission. LEDs are indeed more directional than conventional sources but there is a wide range of emission patterns available.

Getting back to the matter at hand, I can't read the article but I agree that this device probably uses Luxeon emitters since they are the most concentrated sources available right now. The technology Lumileds is developing is advancing in leaps and bounds so it is unquestionably the case that these projectors are going to get a lot brighter quite soon. I wouldn't rush out and get this one since you will be able to get one about 50% brighter within a year for no more money (or at least no more cost to the manufacturuer, not always the same thing).

-Pinkoir

Re:N/A?

[syukton]

Luxeons aren't the most concentrated source out there. They're probably the most publicized high-power emitter out there, but Check out Lamina Ceramics if you want some real concentrated sources. Their highest-end commercial line, the BL-3000 line, has some pretty impressive specs for something less than 1.25 x 1.25 inches, including a 26-watt 567 lumen 5500K white light engine (which will set you back about $80 from Mouser Electronics. Search for Mouser part# 599-BL-32D0-0133).

I was following Lumileds pretty close until I read about the LTCC-M technology that Lamina is using. They're able to pack so many LED chips with this technology that it blows my mind, and they keep getting better at doing it, having just recently cut prices across the board for its two major product lines (BL-2000 and BL-3000).

Re:N/A?

[jmanforever]

"Too bad it's resolution falls shy of HTDV but give it time."

HDTV?

It falls short for 1080i, (NBC, CBS, PBS) but it should be able to do 720p (ABC, FOX) with no problem.

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

720p is the vertical, so it is just shy of 720p even with the 800x600 SVGA size. 1024x768 would be just above 720p

Re:N/A?

[gfody]

lumileds press release

snippet:

When the LED's are driven at their maximum
operating
conditions as indicated in table 2, the total
power generated by the LED's is about 6.5 W. The thermal design turned
out to be insufficient to dissipate this power without
overheating the devices, and the LED's had to be driven at lower
currents to limit the temperature. This resulted in a light output
of the projector of about 15 lm, which was still very comparable to
the brightness of a laptop when illuminating an area of 15"
diagonal. 6. Conclusions
A small RGB LED illuminator for pocket imagers has
been demonstrated, with 40 lm output, resulting in 15
lm out of the projector. Volume of the light engine, including
optics, heat sinks and driver and light-feedback electronics was
around 100 cc.

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

What I couldn't understand is why it's a con, and I misread N/A as 'not applicable' not 'not available' (Why I hate N/A in general).

Not Applicable is NA and Not Available is N/A. Either that or Not Applicable is N/A and Not Available is NA. Hope that clears it up ;-)

Re:N/A?

[jmanforever]

...what was I thinking. You are correct.

I need to get off the computer, and start drinking.

Re:N/A?

[TWX]

Hmmm. So they're saying that it's very dim? I guess that I'm not used to the way various ANSI Lumen standards are recorded besides the obvious. I have a Philips ProScreen 4100 that's 800x600 resolution, 300 ANSI Lumens, with a 4,000 hour lamp (400 hours used) and it still looks pretty good, but requires a darkened room to be used with a picture 50" across diagonal or larger.

If 15lm means 15 ANSI Lumens then this thing is going to be very, very dim under any normally lit room, and one would be better off going for one of the cheap LCD projectors with 1000 Lumens brightness and better controls.

I'm so glad that my ProScreen has an optical keystone adjust, even if it means no throw/zoom control. I'd rather have to move the projector a few feet forward or back to get the image size where I want it than to have the artifacting and antialiasing problems that digital keystone correction creates.

Re:N/A?

[chris234]

Actually, 720p is 1280x720, so 1024x768 also falls short

Re:N/A?

[Jherek Carnelian]

Lamina's got some hot products (literally, check out the dissipation!) but Lumileds still leads for point-sources. So Lamina's stuff leads for density across "large" areas because of their packaging technology, not necessrily because of their emitter technology.

I am seriously considering using the Lamina reds and oranges to replace the various like colored lights on my car, sure its more expensive but its still cool.

Re:N/A?

[dextroz]

N/A - Not Applicable not (conveniently assumed to be) Not Available Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=NA

Re:N/A?

[Vivski]

With the drop in prices of LCD monitors, higher resolution will soon become the norm. People will up ir from 800x600 to run their new monitor at native res.

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just consider this for a sec: we all know the processor speed of our PC's, right? Most of you probably the bus speed as well. What about your PDA? Do you care if the processor on your PDA is not as fast as your PC? Probably not, you care more about it's size. The fact that this projector is so amazingly small, changes things completely IMHO. I've seen it at CES. It's like carrying a 20" screen in your pocket. Who cares about lumens?

Re:N/A?

[Xero_One]

heh. classic

We're being CRUSHED by a slashdot reference -- please check back later as we get control back... - CHAITGEAR Staff

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

of of course.. candles are a very directional source of light..

Re:N/A?

[dspeyer]

This resulted in a light output of the projector of about 15 lm, which was still very comparable to the brightness of a laptop when illuminating an area of 15" diagonal

This sounds good to me. Picture a small keyboard/mouse-nipple with a motherboard/etc. underneath it connected to use of these. Weighs and bulks like a keyboard, but has a 15" screen in ordinary light and 19" (or more) in low light. Now switch the keyboard to one of the roll-up ones and restructure the laptop around the hard drive. It'll fit in your pocket and have an interface as good as a workstation.

I've wanted something like that for a long time.

Re:N/A?

[ackthpt]

With the drop in prices of LCD monitors, higher resolution will soon become the norm. People will up ir from 800x600 to run their new monitor at native res.

That isn't it. Users like large icons and letters. Usually they can't figure out how to change default font settings and such so they set thier screen res to 800x600 because that works good enought for them.

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

It has to use light, its an L.E.D. (Light Emmiting Diode).

Well that and it's a projector. What do you think it'd project, paint? Not that that wouldn't be cool...

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

has a 15" screen in ordinary light and 19" (or more) in low light.

What do you mean by 'in ordinary light'? It doesn't sound too likely that a 15 lumens projector is going to give you a readable screen in a daylit room, not even a small screen like that.

Re:N/A?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not Applicable is NA and Not Available is N/A. Either that or Not Applicable is N/A and Not Available is NA.

Ah. I always confuse one of those with North America.

Re:N/A?

[JVert]

In general I think your close enough x600 is a whole lot better then x240. With lamp hours and the limited space this takes up i'm sooo loading up the shopping cart with one of these and an ATI HD tuner.

Re:N/A?

[IpalindromeI]

Well since this is Slashdot, I think we can rule out "daylight" in the definition of "ordinary light". "Ordinary light" is more like "darkened basement".

The article:

[killa62]

Mitsubishi Launches Mini DLP PocketProjector
by David Chait [Theater, Mobile] Tuesday, February 08th, 2005

If you've always wanted a front projector that you could take with you anywhere, the upcoming PocketProjector from Mitsubishi might just be what you've dreamed of.
Mitsubishi PocketProjector in hand

Certainly rating as one of the smallest projection units out there, the new Mitsubishi PocketProjector is a tiny 14oz powerhouse of a projector. A unit small enough to fit in your hand, run off batteries or car adapter, yet create a 20 screen with only one foot of throw.
Mitsubishi PocketProjector A/V Jacks

The PocketProjector can drive 800x600 SVGA resolution through its Lumileds tri-LED DLP system, rated at over 20,000 hours of lamp life. And it sports composite, s-video, and VGA connectors, great for visualizing anything from a laptop presentation to a portable DVD player. Heck, with a digital camera that has AV output, you can set up a virtual slide show no matter where you are - well, so long as you have a clean, flat, white surface to project onto. ; )
Mitsubishi PocketProjector Next to Cell Phone

The PocketProjector will be available in July at an SRP of $699 US - not cheap certainly, but a fair price for an SVGA projector with multiple inputs, multiple portable power solutions, and that is pocketable. They'll also be selling battery packs for the unit, plus 'solutions' of cables/etc. for different users/industries. Hopefully as soon as they're ready, we'll get one in for testing. I know a LOT of people who'd jump at a mini projector like this...

Re:The article:

[cra]

I'd say $700 is pretty cheap then you take the lamp life into concideration. Most projectors I've seen have a lamp life of 2-4000 hours, and a new lamp cost almost as much as the projectros. Especially if it's a projector with a price suited for personal use rather than a corporation paying for it.

Mirror

[TorrentNinja]

Here is a mirror http://mirrordot.org/stories/94956edfe592d87195c41 25ea9151084/index.html

Re:Mirror

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try, Karma whore.

Hey man! The MirrorDot page you are looking for is not here. There are a few possible reasons:

* The mirror is brand new and is in the process of being created. This usually only takes a minute or two, so please try your request again.
* The page is expired and no longer mirrored here. We keep mirrors around for only a few days each.
* There might be a bug in MirrorDot's code. If you think this may be the case, please email us and let us know what URL you are looking for.

Check out MirrorDot's current mirrors and feel the groove.

Re:Mirror

[Anonymous Coward]

Even MirrorDot is slashdotted ;(

Re:Mirror

[TorrentNinja]

Not sure what you problem is but that link works.. Try it again.. I think mirrordot was still mirroring the content on their servers and you might have hit it while the process was still going.

Re:Mirror

[stefanlasiewski]

Mirrordot is down. I think we need a Mirror for Mirrordot ...

Re:Mirror

[your Funny Uncle]

It's probably the mirrordot-effect that has kicked in.

Any bets on how long...

[ChipMonk]

until someone ports NetBSD to it?

Re:Any bets on how long...

[Anonymous Coward]

As soon as Duke Nukem Forever is out, except in Nebraska.

Re:Any bets on how long...

[mobby_6kl]

> until someone ports NetBSD to it?

At US$699, I'm sure it comes with Linux installed...

Price Drop

[blogeasy]

It's nice to see projectors finally coming down in price. The lowest price used to be the 2200MP Multimedia Projector for $899. Hopefully we will see more in the lower price range and maybe even under $500. The smaller size is definately a plus.

Re:Price Drop

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you might like this

1Based on ANSI/NAPM IT7 .228-1997 tests of 79 units, February 2003, with average ANSI Lumens 918. Bulb brightness degrades with usage. Dell recommends replacing your bulb after 2000 hours of usage.

Re:Price Drop

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be nice. When the product mentioned in Mitsubishi's press release starts actually shipping (at the projected price), sub-$500 dreams will no longer seem premature. For now, the air is heady with vapours.

Re:Price Drop

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Especially considering that this product is one of the first LED-based projectors - as they become more common, the price is going to fall even further.

Re:tour hand

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you need a girlfriend...

Second Page

[killa62]

Page 2: Mitsubishi PocketProjector Press Release

Super-Small Video Projector Launched by Mitsubishi

Project Movies, Games, Photos from Palm-Sized PocketProjector

IRVINE, Calif.-(BUSINESS WIRE)-Feb. 8, 2005-Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America's Presentation Products Division, the industry leader in home entertainment projector technology and innovation, today introduced its PocketProjector(TM), one of the world's smallest LED projectors. Weighing just 14 ounces and fitting easily into the palm of a hand or a coat pocket, the tiny projector is built for fun and creative applications. It can be battery powered or used with a universal car adapter for truly mobile video on the fly.

The PocketProjector has one of the shortest projection distances of any mobile projector on the market today: Users can easily create a 20-inch diagonal screen with only a little over a foot of projection distance, and a 40-inch screen image in less than a yard. With a special suggested retail launch price of $699, the affordable PocketProjector is the next must-have gadget, and the coolest gift for 2005.

"For digital cameras, handheld gaming and portable DVD players, the PocketProjector is the newest display tool or toy of choice," said James Chan, director, projector product marketing for Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America. "This projector can go where no projector has gone before. Just imagine being able to whip out a big screen from your coat pocket - people are going to have so much fun with it."

The PocketProjector powers on or off instantly for quick and easy start-up, and can display images from a notebook computer, portable DVD player, and gaming consoles for immediate use almost anywhere. It is lighted by three Lumileds(TM) LEDs (red, green, blue) that produce an SVGA (800 x 600 pixels) image formed digitally by the latest DLP(TM) chip by Texas Instruments. The projector's advanced lighting technology is rated to last an unprecedented 20,000 hours; with an average use of five hours per day, the lamp is expected to last over 10 years.

The PocketProjector will ship with a protective slip cover and AC power cord. Mitsubishi also plans to offer Convenience Packs with suggested retail prices from $199, which will contain application-specific cables, accessories and small screens for consumer and industry segments. An optional extra battery base will be available for a suggested retail price of $149.

"Our new PocketProjector is one of the most advanced products I've seen in a long time," said Aki Ninomiya, vice president, Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America. "It establishes new standards and creates all new applications and markets for projection displays."

Pricing and Availability

Mitsubishi's new PocketProjector will be available in July 2005 through online retailers and major retail channels at a suggested retail price of $699. Optional battery pack and Convenience Packs will also be made available upon release of the projector.

About Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Presentation Products Division

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America's Presentation Products Division markets an extensive line of professional presentation, display and front-projection home entertainment display systems and is known for its award-winning, high-quality, accurate color reproduction technology. Products are sold through authorized distributors, resellers, retailers, dealers, and system integrators throughout the United States. Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America is located at 9351 Jeronimo Rd., Irvine, CA 92618. For more information, please call 888-307-0312 or visit www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com.

Note to Editors: PocketProjector is a trademark of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Inc.; DLP is a trademark of Texas Instruments; Lumileds is a trademark of Lumileds Lighting.

Contacts

Lionheart PR for Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America
Nancy Napurski, 310-378-4633
nnapurski@lionheartpr.com

Re:Second Page

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd love to see a laptop with this instead of a clunky TFT display. 1024 would be a must, of course, but damn, can you imagine a laptop the size of a happy hacker keyboard with a projected 20" screen?

Re:Second Page

[Anonymous Coward]

Or just strap this on the back...

Who cares about size

[lakeland]

Yeah yeah, when they first came out they were mainly used by rich people with laptops doing cheesy sales pitches. But nowadays I expect everywhere I present to have a projecter already set up, so I don't care about size, weight or running of batteries. Why is it that I'm forced to pay for features I don't want?

I suppose there are a few people who do sales pitches to people who don't have a projector to use, or who carry one around just so it is one less thing to rely on, but what about the majority of us who care about price, bulb price/hour, brightness, and resolution?

It seems the manufacturers haven't got it into their head that lower costs means they are selling to a different market.

A related complaint, I wanted an alarm clock radio that could play MP3s. Sounds easy? It isn't. I found a total of one product under $500 that can play MP3s and has an alarm. Why? Because they only make tiny little MP3 players that run off batteries, not ones the size of an alarm clock with a display I can read across the room.

Re:Who cares about size

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh bitch, bitch, bitch! /Grandpa Simpson

Re:Who cares about size

[BigDish]

The Turtle Beach Audiotron plays MP3 (and WAV/WMA files also) has a LCD that can be read from a decent distance in clock mode (characters are about 1" tall) and has an alarm clock function. You can get them on eBay for about $250.

Re:Who cares about size

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you mean. Until the market starts offering innovative products, we have to be creative. All I did was hook up a FM transmitter to my music server and all the alarm clocks in my house now have the functionality you are talking about.

Re:Who cares about size

[syukton]

A related complaint, I wanted an alarm clock radio that could play MP3s. Sounds easy? It isn't. I found a total of one product under $500 that can play MP3s and has an alarm. Why? Because they only make tiny little MP3 players that run off batteries, not ones the size of an alarm clock with a display I can read across the room.

Google is our friend.

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=IRIF P7 90T#description has "alarm functionality" (doesn't sound so impressive) but runs for quite a while on an AA battery (45 hours) ($134.00)

http://www.normthompson.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PR OD UCT&iProductID=4940 is an actual clock radio. this bad boy takes CDs and has an mp3 decoder. I like this more; only $99, too.

Search terms included: mp3-player plays-mp3s with-alarm alarm-clock

(why the hyphens in the search terms you ask? alarm-clock will match alarm clock, alarm-clock, and alarmclock; whereas "alarm clock" will only match "alarm clock". In other words, using the hyphen to conjoin two words instead of the quotes expands the possible pool of search results by including minute variations on a theme. hard-drive is another good example, catching: hard drive, hard-drive, and harddrive.)

Re:Who cares about size

[dsginter]

Who cares about size?

Apparently, you've never heard of the Law of Geek Chic:

The goal of all electronic devices is to eventually become a choking hazard.

How else are you going to watch TV on your cell phone?

Re:Who cares about size

[reynhout]

Good google tip...

But it's not clear that the OP is looking for a CDMP3 player. I suppose he might be, but I think an alarm clock that stores MP3s would be way cooler.

Re:Who cares about size

[syukton]

yeah, I don't think something like that exists though. You remember how all the first-gen players got new songs on them right? You had to connect them to a computer. I can imagine somebody trying to pitch it in a board meeting.

Designer: "So we've got this alarm clock right, and it plays MP3s!!!"

PHB: "How do we get more mp3s on it?"

Designer: "Well you hook it up to your computer."

PHB: "You need a computer to use the alarm clock? One of the prerequisites for owning one of these clocks is a $1000 piece of hardware?" ....

This does of course also beg the question why the fellow I originally responded to won't just use his computer as an alarm clock. I do it, it works marvelously. I have a little utility I wrote in C to display a message box onscreen and play sounds/mp3s. I just use the windows task scheduler to have a message box appear and play some music every weekday morning. Painless, easy.

If this guy was keen on spending $200, he could pick up a gumstix (http://www.gumstix.com) module with a cfstix expansion board and code his own alarm clock. Those gumstix boards are pretty slick.

Re:Who cares about size

[mrchaotica]

What makes you think you're paying extra because it's small? A big chunk of the size of regular projectors is the light bulb and the fans required to cool it. Since this uses LEDs, the light source will fit in a much smaller area, and there aren't any fans required. I'll bet they weren't even trying to make it small; they just decided to use LEDs and it went from there.

Besides, the battery pack is an accessory.

Re:Who cares about size

[hey!]

Well, let me give you the perspective from the other side -- the business side.

The fact is nobody in his right mind focuses new product development on that segment of the market for whom price is the most important thing. Because no matter what we do, you won't be satisfied until you get it for free, or for less than what you would perceive to be a fair price.

We might target cheapskates with older technology after the early adopters have moved on and our costs have been recouped. Or we might consider you a target if a higher priced competitor has created a pent up demand for a cheaper product. But note that in that case, low price is no longer the most important thing.

Oh, it is absolutely true that the customer is always right. The corrollary is that the wise businessman picks his customers wisely.

Re:Who cares about size

[Scott7477]

IMO, they don't want to cannibalize their TV sales.
The prices of TV's using DLP technology are a lot higher than this product.

Re:Who cares about size

[scriptie the kid]

If they get cheap and small enough I'll probably get one just for the fuck of it. If nothing else I will be pretty funny when a giant projection of goatse appears on the ceiling of wal-mart from a hidden mini projector. I'm sure if you thought about it theres a bunch more fun stuff you can do with one of these too.

Re:Who cares about size

[radish]

Squeezebox? Looks like an alarm clock (I have one on my bedside table), sounds great, nice big bright green display, alarm function, plays mp3, wma, etc etc, and streaming radio. Nice little unit ($200 for cat5, $280 for wifi).

Here

Re:Who cares about size

[your Funny Uncle]

You haven't got a wife or a girlfriend, huh?
They'll certainly tell you that size matters!

Re:Who cares about size

[Fulcrum of Evil]

PHB: "You need a computer to use the alarm clock? One of the prerequisites for owning one of these clocks is a $1000 piece of hardware?" ....

Designer: No, it plays normal CDs too. We're targetting the several million people that use MP3s and have computers in addition to the 200 million that use CDs.

Re:Who cares about size

[generic-man]

I've got an alarm clock radio that could play MP3s, and it has a 19-inch monitor.

at 7:00 AM
mpg123 "Guns N Roses - Sweet Child O Mine.mp3"
^D

It even plays Oggs too:

at 11:30 AM
ogg123 "Richard Stallman - Free Software Song (Whiny Emo Remix).ogg"
^D

Re:Who cares about size

[lewiz]

> Why is it that I'm forced to pay for features I don't want?

You don't have to. It might not be a benefit to you, but it sure will be to others. You get to pick and choose. This is the first of its kind but you can sure there will be more along soon; maybe one will even meet your requirements ;)

Re:Who cares about size

[Anonymous Coward]

I also want an alarm clock that plays MP3s. I hate the spinning noise my Sony Dream Machine makes.

Re:Who cares about size

[IdntUnknwn]

Grandparent was addressing why alarm clocks that play MP3s make use of CDs. He was saying that it was impractical otherwise as it would necessitate the use of a computer. He demonstrated this by showing what dialog would occur if a designer came up with an alarm clock that played MP3s, but didn't make use of CDs.

Re:Who cares about size

[Rob Simpson]

However, such alarm clocks don't have any internal storage, and have to spin up the CD to play mp3s. Not a big deal, I suppose, but unnecessary moving parts and expense. And I have a Koss CD clock radio that makes such a loud whirring/grinding noise when it starts up that it wakes me and pretty much negates any benefit of waking up to music.

As for using a computer in this way, I'd probably screw something up while banging on the keyboard looking for the snooze button, heh...

Re:Who cares about size

[Anonymous Coward]

not sure if this is available in the US, but the Bug digital radio player / alarm clock has an SD slot for recording radio. Must be a means of using it to play back audio from other sources.

Already ./ ted ...

[Matizha]

Here's a mirror: http://mirrordot.org/stories/94956edfe592d87195c41 25ea9151084/index.html

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[AC-x]

You could build a full-resolution cinema-sized display, then all you'd need is a couple of matrox multi-head cards to drive them :)

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[spankey51]

That's it... I think it's time to officially classify the "Beowulf cluster" troll. I've heard people on /. want to cluster toasters, hampster wheels, spouses/girlfriends, and just about everything else.
Atleast it's not as annoying as being subliminally forced to think about your breathing for the next half hour.

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[AC-x]

At least I qualified my Beowulf cluster joke with an actual use for a Beowulf cluster of projectors :)

Anyway it doesn't matter because in Soviet Russia LCD projects you!

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[Bingo Foo]

Uh, user # > 800k?

You've heard it all, I suppose.

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[jIyajbe]

"...A Beowulf cluster of spouses/girlfriends..."

There, see? You put that image in my head, and now I'm all jumpy and sweaty. And my wife is sick with the flu. Thanks a LOT.

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[Anonymous Coward]

Alignment would be a bitch, though. But perhaps that could be an advantage. Maybe instead of tiling them, you could interleave them.

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[Chemical Serenity]

I always get a chuckle out of SlashID dick swinging contests. :D

Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them...

[RichardX]

Psst.. mate.. I wouldn't go shouting about having such a small ID if I were you. The ladies love my "six digiter" though, if you know what i mean..

Oh.. that's *not* how it works?

*grumble* well it's how you use it that matters anyways

Another article

[kirkb]

Since TFA is /.ed, here's another (p)review of this sucker:

http://www.techworthy.com/Blog/Mitsubishi-Pocket Pr ojector-8482.htm

Re:Another article

[JS_RIDDLER]

Offical Press Release, without pictures
2nd article with 1 picture

Re:Another article

[Anonymous Coward]

For the lazy look: Here.

This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[multiplexo]

entertainment center I want to build. Just have it sitting behind your bed projecting up on the ceiling and you can lie in bed and watch TV. Or have it project from behind the bed across the room. I want one.

Re:This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[mrchaotica]

Won't the image be skewed unless you put the projector on your stomach?

Re:This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[Anonymous Coward]

I cannot believe you are that lazy. Sit on the fucking couch!

Re:This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[LoRdTAW]

I wonder what kind of entertainment would be useful to watch while lying down in bed?

Re:This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[gregstumph]

I so don't want to know what you're projecting on your bedroom ceiling...

Re:This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[cra]

Keep in mind that some people are "chained" to their beds for various reasons and cannot simply walk to the livingroom to watch the big TV. That said, I know what you are implying, and I thought along the same lines myself. :-)

Re:This would be cool for the bedroom ceiling home

[multiplexo]

I so don't want to know what you're projecting on your bedroom ceiling...

Why do you say that? Your mom and sister play a prominent role in what I want to watch on my bedroom ceiling.

Another article...

[reynhout]

The Mitsubishi site doesn't appear to have any real content on it about this product, but here's another review:

http://www.techworthy.com/Blog/Mitsubishi-PocketPr ojector-8482.htm

Obligatory joke

[mattiwatti]

Hmm. I have $699 to burn...
Do I buy a LED projector, or a SCO license?

Re:Obligatory joke

[Anonymous Coward]

hey ... SCO' looking up. IBM's partial
summary judgement was denied today.
SCO gets more time to dig through
AIX and Dynix (the other judge gave them
that present a couple of weeks ago).

Re:Obligatory joke

[Comatose51]

It all depends if you're running Linux or not...

Re:Obligatory joke

[bcmm]

A licence, of course!
Don't you want to continue running Linux?

Re:Obligatory joke

[mrdogi]

I say projector, unless you're out of tp...

This isn't an article, it's an advertisement

[winkydink]

I keep looking, but I cannot see how this is anything more than a product pitch. No comparisons, just 'this thing is really cool and think of all the cool things you can do with it'. TFA is nothing more than a rewarmed press release of the projector.

Re:This isn't an article, it's an advertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? Dude, this is /. I depend on this site to keep me up to date on the latest cool gadgets.

I know there are other sites that do this specifically, but i don't have time to venture to all of them.

Re:This isn't an article, it's an advertisement

[winkydink]

Keeping you up to date is giving you a round-up of the top ones out there and "picking" a winner, not just announcing a winner with no selection criteria; that, my fellow /. reader, is called an advertisement.

Re:This isn't an article, it's an advertisement

[Duncan3]

Welcome to the new and improved Slashdot.

Re:This isn't an article, it's an advertisement

[mrbuttboy]

my first thought was,"Are there any competitors??"

I have done a quick search for small svga projectors and can't find any. Most I found seem to be three times the weight and price. They maybe out there (i only spent 5 minutes) but they arent making much noise. As far as I am concerned what i just read was more along these lines:

"portable projectors are coming very soon. In 5 years expect them to be half the size and a third the cost. They might even do in a pinch to replace a regular monitor."

I mean, i dont have the cash to by this but knowing that something like this is going to be mass marketed really soon IS news in and of itself. It might be an ad but one does not preclude the other.

In Cars??

[big daddy kane]

uhm, i dunno maybe i'm missing something, but how exactly is that useful in a car?

Re:In Cars??

[yotto]

Maybe you can project a HUD on your windshield?

Re:In Cars??

[drxray]

No, no, no. It's for projecting stuff on *other people's* windshields... :)

Re:In Cars??

[lucabrasi999]

but how exactly is that useful in a car?

I think it would be really useful. While you drive, you can now:

Watch the projector,

Comb your hair,

Change the Radio Station,

Talk on the mobile phone, AND

Flip off the moron that just cut you off.

All at the same time.

Re:In Cars??

[scbomber]

It can be used to project

"TRY USING YOUR TURN SIGNAL NEXT TIME" and/or

"HA HA, BURNING RUBBER SURE GOT YOU TO THAT RED LIGHT QUICK!"

in big letters onto the windshields of nearby cars.

Re:In Cars??

[mottie]

apparently you aren't a fan of "pimp my ride" http://www.mtv.com/onair/dyn/pimp_my_ride/series.j html

Re:In Cars??

[Anonymous Coward]

How about going camping or to an outdoors social event?

Re:In Cars??

[forkazoo]

Yeah, the cops got angry with me when I mounted my 19" CRT in my windshield. They just didn't see how watching StarGate, reading slashdot, and watching MP3 visualisations along side my digital speedometer utility was a good thing...

Re:In Cars??

[YrWrstNtmr]

How about going camping or to an outdoors social event?

When I go camping, the last thing I'd think of bringing is a small scale movie theater and all the other delicate electronics needed.

Re:In Cars??

[Anonymous Coward]

When I go camping, the last thing I'd think of bringing is a small scale movie theater and all the other delicate electronics needed.

Well, sure, then all the real players would know where you were.

Re:In Cars??

[evilviper]

When I go camping, the last thing I'd think of bringing is a small scale movie theater and all the other delicate electronics needed.

I think we have a communication problem here. People have vastly different definitions of the term "camping".

You are most likely using the "roughing it" definition, where you go deep into the wilderness with only what you can cary, and sleep in a tent.

The parent is most likely using the opposite extreme defenition, whereby a person goes "camping" by getting their family into their fully furnished dual tip-out motorhome, and driving it to a camp ground (just a bit short of a country club) where they plug-in to sewers, water, and power, and draw 60AMPs running their big-screen TV, monsterous air conditioner, microwave, electric stove, halogen lights, refridgerator, etc.

Re:In Cars??

[stor]

uhm, i dunno maybe i'm missing something, but how exactly is that useful in a car?

Population control.

Cheers
Stor

./ ted?

[game kid]

Is that dotslashted? Anyhow, thanks a lot.

SVGA

[fm6]

The cons: only SVGA (800x600), lumens (N/A).

Which is plenty of pixels for a PowerPoint presentation. Of course, what you want is to play Doom on a really big monitor. Not the target market, alas.

Re:SVGA

[ArmorFiend]

what's wrong with 800x600 for FPSers? The most popular FPSer currently is Halo 2, which runs on craptastic TVs, which are, what, 320x200 ?

Re:SVGA

[Anonymous Coward]

What about movies? I've seen low-end projectors lag when hooked up to a laptop trying to display dvds on a white wall (not the lp - no lag on internal screen).

Re:SVGA

[AC-x]

That's 640x400 (or 640x512 if your TV is PAL flavour) you insensitive clod, and thats not even counting overscan!

Of course technically TV's can do any horisontal resolution, you used to be able to display 1280x512 on a normal TV with an AGA Amiga, not that you could actually see anything on a TV at that resolution :)

Re:SVGA

[LurkerXXX]

Heck, with my video card I can only play Doom3 at 800x600 anyhow. Otherwise it's a slide show. I might as well use this projector as my 17" LCD monitor ;)

Re:SVGA

[fm6]

You must have a really ancient video card. Even my sister's old eMachine (1996!) can do better than that.

Nowadays, 800x600 is the base resolution you get if you don't bother to configure your system. (XP won't do 640x480 without hacking the registry.) Are you sure you haven't just forgetten to specify the right driver?

Re:SVGA

[LurkerXXX]

Yep. I run Half-Life 2 fine at 1200x1024 with a fine framerate, but Doom3 is a lot harder on ATI cards.

Re:SVGA

[fm6]

I didn't read your post carefully. I didn't get that you can only run Doom at SVGA.

Re:SVGA

[Jeremy Erwin]

NTSC specifies 525 lines, 480 of which are visible. But that's 20th century tech. The best modern television sets support 1080x1920.

Re:SVGA

[nathanm]

Heck, with my video card I can only play Doom3 at 800x600 anyhow.

You must have a really ancient video card. Even my sister's old eMachine (1996!) can do better than that.

That's BS! NO video card from 1996 could run Doom 3. My ATI Radeon 7500 won't even run it. The minimum requirements listed on id Software's website are a 100% compatible DirectX 9.0b card with 64 MB. The oldest supported chipsets are the Radeon 8500 or nVidia GeForce 3.

Nowadays, 800x600 is the base resolution you get if you don't bother to configure your system. (XP won't do 640x480 without hacking the registry.)

Strike 2, you're wrong again! XP will display at 640x480 (VGA) just fine. You must have a really obscure driver. My mom manages to set her screen at VGA easily by herself, and she doesn't know what a driver is, or that the registry even exists. She has to call me for tech support all the time.

Re:SVGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that's right. FYI, horizontal resolution on an analog set is about 440 dots per inch but depends on the broadcast frequency.

See here, about half way down "Television Lines (TVL)" for more information.

Its a monitor dumbass.

[Anonymous Coward]

The funny is NOT present.

hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[way2trivial]

but what if you mounted one on your dashboard, and followed a semi with a nice white door..

with a little fm transmitter, you could even share the monotony breaker with neighboring cars..

watch a DVD on a cross country trip?

whoa fred- screens getting big! better brake!

Re:hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[Anonymous Coward]

actually wouldnt the screen stay somewhat the same size (at least in the viewers perception)... as the truck gets further away it gets bigger (further from the projector)... and as it comes closer (when braking would be necessary) the screen would get smaller. but it would maybe all look the same to the viewer... just get brighter and dimmer.

brain... working... hard........

Re:hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[way2trivial]

right, I'm fried.. invert mine.. sorry.

Re:hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd be ok if the screen is getting bigger, it's when it's getting real small that you have to worry...

Re:hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[evilviper]

What a great idea... It's always good to get drivers around you to take their eyes off the road for long periods of time.

After all, drivers aren't doing enough these days. Yelling at the kids in the back seat, changing the radio stations, all while talking on the cell... You're right, drivers have so little to do that they need something else to entertain/distract them.

Re:hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[orfanotna]

Technically, the picture will be geting smaller as you get closer. Still funny as hell though. hehe.

Re:hmm, it's illegal to watch tv while driving

[Da_Biz]

Actually, this could be a part of a homebrewed heads-up system you've always wanted in your car.

coral, anyone?

[Zyrill]

please guys - since almost everybody here is tech-savvy anyway: why don't you just fucking coralize links so everybody can read em and the servers aren't down after half a minute?

Re:coral, anyone?

[JanneM]

why don't you just fucking coralize links so everybody can read em and the servers aren't down after half a minute?

Because you are so cute when you try to swear.

Re:coral, anyone?

[Zyrill]

why thank you! :) but it was a good attempt you have to admit...

Re:coral, anyone?

[JanneM]

Yeah, sorry; I just get a little annoyed sometimes when people try to swear "casually" in written conversations. It doesn't achieve the same kind of effect at all for me when I read it as when I hear it.

Re:coral, anyone?

[Zyrill]

basically the same thing happens to me when i see that a link is down again just because people are too lazy to use a perfectly good proxy like coral which is just so easy to use... you don't even need to alter any options. *sigh*

number 1?

[bahamat]

This new projector is my top number 1 "must have" gadget.

I'm curious what other number 1 "must have" gadgets are on your list.

Re:number 1?

[jmanforever]

"I'm curious what other number 1 "must have" gadgets are on your list."

I don't know what the author's "other number one must haves" are, but mine would be this projector, and for about the same price, a Mac Mini.

Re:number 1?

[bahamat]

If the projector is the "top" and the mac mini is not, would that not mean the projector was number 1 and the mini number 2?

Re:number 1?

[Anonymous Coward]

a girlfriend...

Re:number 1?

[zobier]

It was better just to leave it as a subtle joke.

Re:number 1?

[Anonymous Coward]

yes... I'd like to inspect-her-gadget.

Re:tour hand

[de1orean]

when you're on tour, you gotta take it where you can get it...

Too bad about the resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

otherwise it would be a perfect fit for the Mac Mini.

Re:Too bad about the resolution

[songofthephoenix]

Actually, Apple already has a pocket projector .
It looks a great deal better as well.

Note: It was a prototype at the time of the article.

Pixels/inch

[yotto]

800x600 has a 1000 pixel diagonal (8x6x10 right triangle. High school math came in handy for once), so a 40 inch projection will have 25 pixels per inch. Each pixel will be 1/25th of an inch, or (about) 3 of them will fit in an 8th of an inch.

Not bad for most uses of a wall projector.

Re:Pixels/inch

[SUB7IME]

No offense intended, but the high school math could use some work.

25 pixels per (square) inch implies that there will be 1 pixel per 1/5th of a square inch. (Square root of 1/25). That's like a splitting a square inch up into a Cartesian plane 5 units long and 5 units high, with each unit containing a point of light.

Each 1/8th of a square inch will contain ~ 0.39 pixel. Put more usefully, as I stated before, each 1/5th of a square inch will contain 1 pixel.

Re:Pixels/inch

[SUB7IME]

Yeah nevermind; I could use some work on elementary school level reading. You had already converted to a linear scale when doing your calculations.

Each 1/8 inch square will contain 9 pixels.

Each 1/8 of a square inch (note that these are not the same) will contain 78 pixels.

Re:Pixels/inch

[yotto]

No offense intended

None taken. It's not 25 pixles per square inch. It's 25 pixels per INCH or, if you want to be pedantic, 25 "pixel-edges" per inch.

I'm talking a 1000 pixel LINE from the lower-left corner to the upper-right corner equating to a 40 inch LINE.

Granted, pixels don't run diagonally across the screen, but the 800 pixles along the bottom of the screen would run 32 inches if the diagonal was 40 inches, and the 600 along the side would run 24 inches. So you could say 800/32 = 25 pixels/inch or (approx) 3 pixels every 1/8th of an inch.

Re:Pixels/inch

[hhawk]

Any idea about how Fast the refresh is? I know older LCD monitors didnt' display moving images well. Is this one say good for power point but say not good for Doom or TV or a DVD?

Re:Pixels/inch

[Alan Partridge]

What the fuck is an inch?

Re:Pixels/inch

[Anonymous Coward]

800x600 has a 1000 pixel diagonal (8x6x10 right triangle. High school math came in handy for once),

Um, no, it has a 800-pixel diagonal. Think about it.

Re:Pixels/inch

[Anonymous Coward]

I see where you got that idea, but it's wrong. Your assignment is to break out some graph paper and figure out where your mistake is.

Re:Pixels/inch

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an 'imperial' measurement (~25.4mm), used in countries that are convinced that the majority of their population won't understand the metric system. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch/

Re:Pixels/inch

[Anonymous Coward]

So it has an 800 pixel leg and an 800 pixel hypotenuse? That's what's called 'a straight line'.

Re:Pixels/inch

[Anonymous Coward]

Roughly one half the length of your dick.

Re:Pixels/inch

[Alan Partridge]

So about 9cm then?

Re:Pixels/inch

[lkl]

The (two) diagonals of a 600X600 segment of the 800X600 matrix will not have 600X[sqrt(2)] pixels, but exactly 600 pixels. Each pixel is located in a separate row and in a separate column. In just the same way one cannot use the Pythagorean Theorem (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PythagoreanTheorem.h tml) to find the pixels on the diagonals of the 800X600 matrix. Instead, those diagonals will effectively have one pixel for each of the 800 columns of the matrix.

Re:Pixels/inch

[Anonymous Coward]

Alas, but no.

2.54 cms to the inch, leaving us to conclude that your magic wand is roughly 5cm in length.

Re:Pixels/inch

[Alan Partridge]

That doesn't follow. I asked what an inch was, I was told half the length of my cock, I inferred therefore an inch to be 9cm.

I'm all for a little badinage, but let's try and keep it logical at least.

If an inch is 2.54 cms, then it's clearly around a seventh of the length of my chopper.

Home Theater / TV

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm one of those HTPC people, and have been watching HDTV on my computer. The exciting thing for me is the lamp lifetime - 20000 hrs, which is maybe 5x longer than anything I've seen. It's enough. If (I don't, but if) I watched 3hrs of TV a day, this lamp would last almost 18 years, which is enough to justify the cost!!

At $800, it's comparable to a 40 inch TV. The resolution is already better than standard TV, although not yet high-def. Bump up the resolution to either 1280x720(p) or 1920x1080(i), and there's no real reason to buy a TV.

This is the first 20k lifetime projector I've seen. Hopefully more LED projectors at better resolutions and lower prices will come, and I'll never buy a TV for watching movies.

Re:Home Theater / TV

[falzbro]

Bump up the resolution to either 1280x720(p) or 1920x1080(i), and there's no real reason to buy a TV.

Sure, if you're nocturnal.

--falz

Re:Home Theater / TV

[takev]

It is called a CRT, although technically it doesn't have a 20.000hr lamp life, it has a tube life.

Although they weigh a lot, are difficult to set up initially are very big, and they don't produce a lot of light. They are cheap when you buy them second hand, even with new tubes. They also produce a very nice picture. And if you have a dark room, the light coming from this projector can blind you still.

Re:Home Theater / TV

[Jester998]

Last I checked, being nocturnal wasn't a bad thing, nor uncommon among Slashdotters.

Another site

[theendlessnow]

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000667030930/ Might as well slashdot them all!!

800x600 and DVD movies?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does it work to watch a widescreen DVD movie on 800x600?

I always thought the ideal resolution of a monitor for watching DVD was 1024x768. (The picture would be 1024xY where Y 768 for the space taken by the black horizontal bars of the widescreen movie.)

Re:800x600 and DVD movies?

[jmanforever]

"How does it work to watch a widescreen DVD movie on 800x600?"

DVD movies, widescreen or not, are 720 x 485, or 640 x 480. Your high-res monitor will downshift to play them full screen.

Re:800x600 and DVD movies?

[Alan Partridge]

Wrong.

NTSC SD pictures are 720x480 from DVD, PAL SD is 720x576. Expanding the 16:9 PAL image to square pixels gives you 1024x576 - so the 1024x768 4:3 screen is perfect for most PAL movie DVDs.

Re:N/A? Tri-LED DLP

[jcdr]

The article say "tri-LED DLP", not three DLP chip.
I suspect that there use only one DLP and use 3 set of LEDs, to have the RGB colors without the use of a color whell. The advantage is that make a full static mechanic system. Other advantage is that there can pulse each set of LEDs with havy current as there duty cycle is 1/3. So there is more power light without destruct the LEDS. This trick is also used into each IR remote control. Maybe there is possibility to use 6 set of LEDs to take even more power and buitfull colors...

ATX case

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be ideal to buy an ATX case or computer that has the projector built in with a reflecting lense so you can aim it? Park your living room computer next to your recliner and plug the keyb/mouse right in. Put your stereo/cd/dvd/radio stack and media next to you so you can frob it directly.

In addition, I predict that the small projector technology is going to show up in laptops this end-year. Once the cell phone, PDA, media box, and personal computer are merged into one small device, chip level projector technology will become one of those things that kids can't imagine we lived without.

As with 56k modems, TI has innovated in the right places; their factories will be churning this and core RFID technology out for years.

Profit Projections

[Doc Ruby]

Video projectors haven't been following Moore's Law lately. A 2000 lumens 1024x768 for under $1000 has been years in coming, since that profile dropped below $3000 a few years ago. It appears that it's because the projector vendors target salespeople, and are feeding them with ever more portable projectors, more costly to produce than big, stationary ones. Maybe the higher turnover of travelling salespeople means they sell more units in that sector, always needing the "brand new" one, at the highest price, than across the board. I'd have thought the mass-marketing of home theater would have offered larger profits on more sales, without competing on miniaturization R&D.

Where is the 20lb ceiling-mount livingroom projector for $1000, that does 1024x768 @2000lm? Maybe this Mitsubishi projector will help compete them into existence.

Re:Profit Projections

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Moore's Law was only intended to apply to one thing, and isn't even a law, but just some guy that slapped a ruler against a chart and said gee look!

Re:Profit Projections

[Peyna]

I'd have thought the mass-marketing of home theater would have offered larger profits on more sales, without competing on miniaturization R&D.

I would definitely not recommend any of these for a home theatre or television replacement. You can a much better quality picture for about the same price in a television over a projector.

The image quality is horrible compared to other possibilities.

Re:Profit Projections

[spankey51]

Time to take moore's law into you're own hands dude! Just rip apart an old LCD monitor and lay it on a used overhead projector... I bet you could get 1280 x 1024 for less than $200, especially if you don't care about it weighing 20lbs...

Re:Profit Projections

[Jherek Carnelian]

Where is the 20lb ceiling-mount livingroom projector for $1000, that does 1024x768 @2000lm? Maybe this Mitsubishi projector will help compete them into existence.

Not quite $1K, but it does exceed your lumens requirement:

Optoma 749 2300 lumens, 1024x768 @ $1300.

Note: I do not in any way endorse tigerdirect - their customer is service is atrocious and they appear to have been astroturfing bizrate for quite some time. BUT, if they can manage to ship you a new and undamaged unit, you'll never have to deal with their customer disservice, and the odds on that are relatively good.

Just make sure you give them a throw-away email address, they are merciless spammers and spam-list renters.

Re:Profit Projections

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops = optoma 749 is really 745, original link is good though.

Re:Profit Projections

[Anonymous Coward]

*shrug*... I have a 100lb ceiling mount CRT projector that does 1280x1024 (from about 8 years ago). Does that count?

Re:Profit Projections

[Doc Ruby]

Except that semiconductor progress has followed it. Marketing the projectors, whose HW components are actually following the "law" (model), has not followed suit.

Re:Profit Projections

[Doc Ruby]

Good idea, except the LCD monitors don't do 30fps. If you know one that does, let me know.

Re:Profit Projections

[Doc Ruby]

Hm, and it's DLP: better framerate, more consistent picture - and usually more expensive than its LCD competitors. Maybe it signals the threshold of a downwards trend. I can wait another few months to see.

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, but does your Sharp projector use LEDs, which last orders of magnitude longer than incandescent bulbs?

Now, I'm also skeptical about the brightness -- they'll need a whole bunch of superbright white LEDs to make it work well. But regardless, it'll be great for a dark room...

ProJector?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought TFA was about PocketProtector... nevermind

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[voisine]

It's an LED projector. It doesn't use a incadescent lamp with a white hot burning filament. It's posted on slashdot for reason. It's damn cool!

MIT Media Lab did something like this 3 years ago.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://web.media.mit.edu/~stefanm/TinyProjector/Ti nyProjector.html

Grammer Ninja!

[Anonymous Coward]

*an* SCO license.

It works based on the sounds of the letters.

ESS CEE OH

Re:Grammer Ninja!

[Anonymous Coward]

grammAr

Spelling: it works based on the sounds of the letters.

OBHACK

[webhat]

US$699, why?

I build a projector by taking a slide projector and one of those miniture lcd screens.

I broke the screen open, removed the backlight and mounted in the projector. Hey presto a new projector. Everything ran on 12v, so I could in principle attach it to batteries or car adapter.

Total cost
4x3 cm LCD screen $60
Second hand projector $10
Total $70

Ok, so the image isn't the best quality and I had to get an extra cooling fan for the screen, which cost me about $10. My next project is with a laptop screen and an overhead projector with a one of those builders halogen lights. Then I can watch my favorite tv program against the side of a building.

Re:OBHACK

[AC-x]

My next project is with a laptop screen and an overhead projector with a one of those builders halogen lights

Em, you've been beaten to it

(Well apart from the OTT bulb :)

Re:OBHACK

[mako1138]

Not bad; what's the resolution? It sounds a lot smaller than using an overhead projector.

Now what would be a nice (and difficult) DIY project is to get a few of these DLP chips and essentially build this LED projector from scratch...

Re:OBHACK

[LurkerXXX]

How big is yours compared to this unit? How loud? How much are you going to spend on bulbs to get 20000 hours of life out of it? I think those are some of the reasons why.

Re:OBHACK

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a cool project.

Do you still have your backlight kicking around? If not, where did you get your LCD?

Re:OBHACK

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a cool project. Do you still have your backlight kicking around? If not, where did you get your LCD?

Re:OBHACK

[The Cisco Kid]

I (and I'm sure others) would be interested to hear the details of your project. What the specific parts you used were, how your built it, how you connected it to a video signal, etc.

Re:OBHACK

[webhat]

I have all the pictures, just never got round to writing a document about it.

The screen, as it was meant for a video camera which doesn't have a rotating screen, as most do now, so it had a S-video connector.

Re:OBHACK

[webhat]

The first version was about 5 kilograms, made of stainless steel, and the size of a shoebox, but for the second one I found a little cheap projector, about the size of a publisher paperback (10x20x5cm) plastic so light weight.

The first version used 100 Watt lightbulbs, which is why I needed an extra cooler. I didn't have room to fit a low heat long life bulb in. Obviously it only ran on mains electricity.

The second version uses a far less powerful bulb, which means less quality, but for a 12v system what do you expect. I was interested to see they used leds, which is probably a smarter idea, but as I was building using spare parts and second hand gear I guess it would have been lucky to find a light source like that.

Re:OBHACK

[webhat]

Do you know what the trick is to resolution, I could get it up to 3 feet wide and get a really grainy picture... So I made the picture a little out of focus, not so grainy and the eyes compensate slightly.

Read the other comment below, seems somebody has already build the overhead projector, minus the halogen light...

Re:OBHACK

[webhat]

Yes, somewhere in the house. I got the LCD from the local equivalent of Tandy or Radio Shack.

Re:OBHACK

[mako1138]

Yeah, the Tom's Hardware article made /. whenever it came out... last year? I'm more interested in _your_ project actually, and it sounds like others in this thread are too. It sounds much more elegant and portable than an overhead.

Re:OBHACK

[webhat]

Sure, well if somebody has space I can send them the images and write up a shot HOWTO and they can post it on their website to get slashdotted...

I only have the images for the first version, but that should get you into building a smaller compact version...

mail me at webhat {at} xs4all {dot} nl

1 ft throw?

[Soong]

Ok, but 6-10 foot would be a much more interesting number. I certainly hope it can be focused down to a reasonable size with reasonable brightness at that range. I don't want Frank's 200" TV at 10 feet.

Re:1 ft throw?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, it's "Frank's 2000 inch TV"... you're off by a factor of 10.

resolution too low

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice toy but, except for PDAs, 800x600 is an unacceptably low resolution nowadays for any serious device. If they increase the resolution to at least 1280x1024 I might buy one.

Re:resolution too low

[Alan Partridge]

Mistubishi's share price just collapsed.

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[doodlelogic]

I have a projector, albiet used only infrequently, the incandescent bulb for which has lasted for 5 years. Are you telling me that LEDs will last 500?

How Many Lumens?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I throw a 40" image onto a white board during a sales call do I have to turn out all the lights?

Those keychain LED's do a nice job at 12 inches. Bright enough with no focusing lens at all. I wonder what happens when you shine one directly into a projector lens and onto a wall?

There are tons of applications....

[Anita Coney]

Shadow puppets! Don't forget shadow puppets!

Keystoning

[Yobgod Ababua]

The skewing you mantion is referred to as "keystoning" (because it turns your nice rectangle into a keystone-shaped trapezoid).

Most projectors (decent ones at least) will have a 'keystone adjustment' in their menu that you can use to correct this to a reasonable extent (they are limited as to how much of an angle they can correct for).

Check the specifications on a specific projector to make sure it includes keystone correction if you plan to use it at a non-trivial angle.

Re:Keystoning

[NeedleSurfer]

And if you plan on using it in a permanent installation why don't you just don't use keystone correction since it screws up the image big time (the correction is done in processing, pixels are removed, the LCD matrix, or DMD matrix or led matrix, doesnt change shape and deform to adapt).

just place your projector correctly, if you really need to offset your projector, then get lens shifting...

Re:Keystoning

[GoRK]

A minor point here:

Total crap projectors have no correction for keystone at all.

Cheap projectors have digital keystone image-destroying correction. It's basically only good for video and you have to live with light spilling off of your screen onto the surroundings and not really being able to focus your image properly since part of the screen is closer than other parts.

Good projectors have lens shift which can throw the image (generally up to 50%) off-center using optics. For the life of me, I don't know who came up with this digital keystone stuff -- they could have implemented similar things just as inexpensively using a manually operated lens shift mechanism... *shrug*

You also don't really have to have a projector with keystone correction in order to do digital keystone correction. Any of the new NVidia cards can do all kinds of image manipulation with NVKeystone.

Mitsubishi

[plbg32]

Mitsubishi Electric - Mitsubishi's press release on the PocketProjector. Put in the PCI card for a radio station and you got your own drive in movie :-P.

Too expensive for what you get

[soft_guy]

For $699, you get a LED (dim) LCD (crappy image) projector.

For $765, you can buy an InFocus X1a which has a much brighter lamp and will be nicer for movies and presentations. Plus, IMHO LCD projectors really suck because of the "screen door" effect. The X1a is a DLP projector which produces a more clear image.

Re:Too expensive for what you get

[GerbilSoft]

For $699, you get a LED (dim) LCD (crappy image) projector.

RTFA:

"It is lighted by three Lumileds(TM) LEDs (red, green, blue) that produce an SVGA (800 x 600 pixels) image formed digitally by the latest DLP(TM) chip by Texas Instruments."

Re:Too expensive for what you get

[LurkerXXX]

Right. But the bulbs only last 4000 hours and cost ~$340 each. That's an extra $1300+ over the lifetime to equal what you get with the bulb in this little unit.

So for 20,000 hours of viewing it's:

$ 699 for the new LED unit.
$2100 for the InFocus X1a.

Re:Too expensive for what you get

[srussell]

So for 20,000 hours of viewing it's:

Jezus, man, how much TV do you watch? 20,000 hours? That's, like, 8 hours a day, every day, for almost 7 years!

--- SER

Re:Too expensive for what you get

[LurkerXXX]

Which means I don't have to spend another dime for a projector for a decade. At which time I'll buy some nice cheap hi-def prejector.

My last TV set cost a few hundred dollars. That set lasted me about 15 years until it finally died. I don't want to spend several hundred for a projector, just to put in a few hundred more every couple years for new bulbs. Long life is good.

Want to set up a display projector in your store at the mall running 12+ hours a day? Hook this thing up and don't worry about maintenence for a few years. That's kind of handy.

Re:Too expensive for what you get

[Jozer99]

It is a DLP projector. Read the article, it says it about 4 times.

Here's their press release.

[dazzla_2000]

This isn't dead... yet.

Super-Small Video Projector Launched By Mitsubishi

Re:Here's their press release.

[dazzla_2000]

Ooops someone else beat me to it. Damn my slow fingers.

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[really?]

It's damn cool!

Of course it is, it's a LED projector. No incandescent lamp.

(rim shot.)

Dell 2003MP - not portable but best for price

[sytelus]

I just bought this DLP projector yesterday on ebay for $1165. Specs are unlike anything I've seen for this price (or even at $1800): 2300 lumens, 2100 contrast. No wireless networking though. Also no DVI socket. Definitely not pocket. It throws lots of heat. Except these it seems to be the best you can buy for under $1800 projectors.

Re:Dell 2003MP - not portable but best for price

[blanne]

You mean the 2300MP? What about noise? Heat => noise...

Use a black screen

[slantyyz]

This project sounds like it will need a screen like Sony's upcoming black screen that allows for viewing of projected images with lots of ambient light. Of course, the Sony screen might be a bit bigger than what this little projector can handle.

Tri-LED?

[Trogre]

I wonder if they illuminate 3 LED elements per diode (RGB) to produce white, or if they illuminate each colour in turn, thus eliminating the need for a colour filter wheel?

That moving part is a considerable source of noise (and heat) in most DLP projectors.

Re:Tri-LED?

[sam_da_mann]

It may use the 3-chip DLP solution, one color per. But $699 would be a bit of a decrease in price over the last 3-chip I saw for $15000

Great for traveling presentations

[ducomputergeek]

If you were on the road deliviering powerpoint presentations, this thing would be a god send. Currently if we send someone to meet with a client they have to lug both their laptop.

While 800x600 might seem all that great to most of the geek crowd, its more than enough to show a powerpoint presentation in a confrence room or hotel meeting room wall.

The trade off of size versus performance here would be a no brainer if you travel.

With a mac mini

[Anonymous Coward]

This and a Mac mini and a projection keyboard gadget that was recently covered [one with (when) an OS X driver] and a small mouse would make a cool travelling system for many people. (Yes, there is still the Powebook.)

For those that don't have to demo to others, replace projector with one of the wearable displays

Laugh if you will, but...

[OgGreeb]

This is very cool -- LEDs mean less heat, size and battery power means you can embed the unit in custom displays or think up novel uses for them.

• Portable drive-in movie! Sit the projector on your dashboard and aim it at your garage door. Park next to a vending machine for the concession stand.
• When traveling, no more sitting at the desk in your hotel room watching movies on your laptop screen. Pack this and relax on the bed, or have several friends in the room.

I'm sure they've already got better in Japan

[b00m3rang]

In 2001, a friend of a friend had a projecter that was about a 5" sphere with a triangular base. He said it cost less than a hundred dollars in Japan, and would project about a 30" image which while dim was certainly viewable.

I don't know why they're not available here yet, but I've never seen one.

Re:I'm sure they've already got better in Japan

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

You do know that Mitsubishi is a Japanese corporation, right?

And your friend is a dirty liar, too.

Re:I'm sure they've already got better in Japan

[b00m3rang]

You do know that Mitsubishi is a Japanese corporation, right?

Yes, but "manufactured in Japan" and "only available for sale in Japan" are two entirely different concepts.

And your friend is a dirty liar, too.

Your mom.

Re:I'm sure they've already got better in Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

About 15 years ago, Rogersound (in CA) had a projector that was about the size of a VHS tape. It made a 30" picture, but it looked like a black honeycomb between the projected image. It cost $350. A VGA projector with today's image quality and this size case could be released today, but at what cost?

Re:Mirror of Mirrordot

[BobPaul]

Mirror for Mirrordot

Mitsubishi's press release ...

[JoeGee]

can be viewed here, since the site linked to by the article appears to be /.'ed.

LumiLeds makes the LEDs: red, green, and blue. The bulb life of 20,000 hours is fantastic, but I agree that chances are poor this will throw a bright enough image to be useful in daylight or bright room situations. The Lumileds site suggests that the maximum brightness for a Lumileds Luxeon LED is 120 lumens.

-Joe G.

Lumileds LEDs

[raygundan]

Those Lumileds LEDs are what you'd call "spectacularly bright." I have a pair I ordered to assemble a bike light for night riding-- they're the tiny 1-watt ones, and they're damn bright. The red-orange 1-watter I have makes 55 Lumens, and I'd guess you get a lot more light from the 3w and 5w versions.

The bike light is fantastic-- I get hours and hours of life from a few AA batteries. Great little toys.

tongue

[spamgrabber999]

you stupid loser. buy somthing real ... and dont forget to fuckign spam me!!! jerks!

Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

screw that if you can't tilt the projector!

I must get one

[Epsillon]

At which point I will install it into my car with a tracking pan/tilt mechanism so I can project the words "dumbarse" and "half-wit", amongst others, onto the tyre (tire) covers of passing 4X4s (SUVs). This is what I've waited for for so long. Keep your flying cars, give me REVENGE ;-)

Re:I must get one

[puhuri]

I've always wanted one than can display text tailgater on rear window. Or, actually some other text that cannot be translated into English.

Another road-rage utility would be one than can send directed sound into car that just overtaked you throwing loads of slush on your windscreen while there was plenty of free road to leave longer distance before returning on front of you.

Of course, the later one could be automated with license plate lookup and telephone directory lookup (wiht SMS), but I dont want to spend lots of €s to educate idiots.

There are products, some of them are neat

[timothy]

'No comparisons, just 'this thing is really cool and think of all the cool things you can do with it.'

That part is exactly right. "This thing looks cool, think of the possibilities." If that's a product pitch, I'm ... well, that's *not* product pitch, so there's no need to finish that thought.

Comparisons with ... what? Other LED-based projectors? Other battery powered tiny projectors? Bring 'em on! I would much rather this post have contained a link to a comparison of several similar or at least functionally overlapping devices. There was a Swedish company promising a similar product a few years ago, but after the mocked-up prototype was shown and a release the following year was promised, I've not heard any more about that. (Though maybe it's selling in European markets.)

Companies want your money, so they make (what they hope are) attractive, interesting products you'll trade money for; this one is attractive and interesting to me -- it's the sort of thing that I've been wishing for since I first saw the pricetags (and expected bulb lives) of conventional projectors. We could refuse to run any news that mentioned an identifiable product or company, as many trollish comments suggest; that seems to be a pretty silly idea, and isn't going to happen.

timothy

20,000 hours lamp life - 2000 ?

[otisg]

Are you/they sure it's 20,000 hours of lamp life? If that were true, that would be about 10 times more than for a typical projector. Just recently I purchased a Panasonic projector. During my research and shopping around I observed that all bulbs have between 2,000 and 3,000 hours of life in them.

So.... I question that 20,000 hours of life time quote...

Re:20,000 hours lamp life - 2000 ?

[merlin_jim]

Are you/they sure it's 20,000 hours of lamp life? If that were true, that would be about 10 times more than for a typical projector. Just recently I purchased a Panasonic projector. During my research and shopping around I observed that all bulbs have between 2,000 and 3,000 hours of life in them.

So.... I question that 20,000 hours of life time quote...

You shouldn't... this projector uses LEDs, not lamps. The projectors you were looking at all used incandescent or flourescent technologies; a bright/hot/charged region getting electricity slammed through it to force it to give off photons.

This uses solid state LEDs; silicon junctions whose atomic makeup cause them to give off a specific frequency. Suitably heatsinked (and these come from the factory suitably heatsinked) you can give off TONS of light for a very long time.

This is good. This is exciting. These LEDs probably cost LESS than a bulb for a traditional projector, and last for a much longer period of time.

Re:20,000 hours lamp life - 2000 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It does not use a filimant bulb, it uses an LED as the light source. An LED has a typical life of 75,000 - 200,000 hours.

Re:20,000 hours lamp life - 2000 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to add that the failure mode for LED's is that they get dimmer instead of just stopping. So in 20k hours of use the "dead" LED will simply be 50% of its initial brightness.. but still work.

Re:20,000 hours lamp life - 2000 ?

[merlin_jim]

There is an alternate catastrophic failure mode, but in a well designed device it simply can't happen; this catastrophic failure mode is a thermal runaway; resistance increases as temperature increases, which causes temperature to increase faster. That's why packaging, heat sinking, airflow, and voltage are so important in designing a device like this. You supply the proper voltage and way overengineer the heat removal system and it's simply not a concern.

Re:20,000 hours lamp life - 2000 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure you have that wrong. The resistance decreases with increasing temp, so more current flows and more heat is generated.

It's not for movies...

[CWren]

http://www.siggraph.org/s2004/conference/etech/int eracting.php

That's a link to an abstract describing a 2004 SIGGRAPH Emerging Technologies demo.

One liner: it's small enough to hold, remember? so what happens when you can wave around a projector? It becomes an input device, as well as a display.

cheers,
Chris

It's about bulbs

[bill_mcgonigle]

Where is the 20lb ceiling-mount livingroom projector for $1000, that does 1024x768 @2000lm?

It's hiding out with Bigfoot and Elvis because people who won't spend more than a thousand dollars on a projector won't drop three hundred bucks every year or so on a new bulb.

10-year cost on your $1000 projector: $4000. 10-year cost on a better projector: $5000. That's a hundred bucks a year for better picture quality.

These new LED projectors are the answer and will probably be marketable as you suggest in a few years.

Re:It's about bulbs

[Jeff DeMaagd]

because people who won't spend more than a thousand dollars on a projector won't drop three hundred bucks every year or so on a new bulb.

I call bullshit. I've owned a projector for three years now and I am only two thirds of the way through the bulb. And I use it maybe a couple hours every night.

Now, if it was used nearly six hours a night, then it the bulb really will need replacement every year.

The bulb cost is high, but once figured in a cost per hour basis, it really isn't so bad, for me, never more than the cost of a can Pepsi an evening.

Re:It's about bulbs

[Doc Ruby]

Good point. CRTs didn't plunge in price until their actual glass tubes passed some cost threshold. Probably just the glass industry move to Mexico that had to be digested, then return its dividends. These more efficient and longer-lived LEDs will probably offer the same kind of curve, as you say.

Re:It's about bulbs

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

10-year cost on your $1000 projector: $4000.

You are out of step with the market. Current models will do 3k-6k hours per bulb, and don't forget that is until the bulb reaches half brightness - you lose around 20% of original brightness in the first few hundred hours and then it is a long slow smooth curve. I use a high-gain screen and my current bulb is now at about 260% of its duty cycle and still plenty bright. I have two more bulbs in the closet and I'll probably upgrade to a new projector before I have to use either of them.

So, on the low end you are talking 9 hours of viewing per day, every day of the year for the whole year which is frankly completely unreasonable and on the high end 3 hours per day, every day for almost 11 years before you have to change the bulb. In 10 years, that projector will be llllong obsolete, probably even in just 5 years.

Bulb price is not an issue anymore.

Plus, no one has stated it here, but the lumens on this current LED projector are in the double-digit range. LEDs are getting brighter, but not bright enough to challenge the cheap 2K lumen bulb projectors anytime soon - particularly since LEDs are not as efficient as bulbs at high power. Low power, LEDs kick ass, but high power, HID still rules the roost for lumens per watt and halogen isn't that far behind. Give it a minimum of 5 years before LED projectors are of comparable brightness.

Re:It's about bulbs

[bill_mcgonigle]

I call bullshit. I've owned a projector for three years now and I am only two thirds of the way through the bulb. And I use it maybe a couple hours every night.

You're not typical. 7.5 hours per day is typical.

Now, if it was used nearly six hours a night, then it the bulb really will need replacement every year.

It's higher according to Nielsen.

Re:It's about bulbs

[bill_mcgonigle]

So, on the low end you are talking 9 hours of viewing per day, every day of the year for the whole year which is frankly completely unreasonable

Frankly, it's pretty close to typical.

I've never had a DLP-class projector bulb last more than a couple years in daily conference-room use. I am very interested in anybody that's had a bulb actually last for a very long time (especially 11 years). I guess someone running a projector 24x7 could speak to the 6000-hour claimed bulbs. Of course, that's ideal load on a bulb - the heating and cooling cycles are what get you, so 6000 continuous hours isn't anything like 6000 1-hour viewings.

But you're right, I suspect we've got a while to wait for high-power LED projectors, and laser may get there first.

Re:It's about bulbs

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Disney themeparks are known for having run their LCOS projectors for about 12x7 and the bulbs are rated for only 1000 hours but the "word" was they pushed them well past 3000 hours - basically until the bulb died.

Re:It's about bulbs

[Anonymous Coward]

Those viewing numbers per HOUSEHOLD, not per person. Think of the average house with 4 people, then 8 hours a day could be only two hours that the TV is on (2x4=8, simple, no?)

Texas Instruments has one in Development also!

[Anonymous Coward]

A little bird told me about TI's version of the same thing, it hadn't made it to market yet because they wanted a higher lumen output on the projector.

-Anonymouse

LEDs

[I'm a racist.]

It is my understanding that LEDs still aren't quite bright enough for use in a projector. I've been toying with the idea of building my own LCD projector, and all the information I've seen on the net has said that LEDs just won't cut it. To get enough light, you need a cluster too big to approximate a point source. Using an array of them as a backlight has other issues for projection, but would work great in place of a CCFL in a standard LCD monitor (even if getting it to work is a bit labor intensive).

Here's one guy's attempt. There are tons of others, if you look around. No successes that I've come across though.

I haven't really kept up with LED technology, so maybe things have changed, but I kind of doubt it's any significant change. I have thought about taking a bunch of LEDs, putting them inside a reflective light box, and taking the light out through a multimode fiber optic cable, to scramble the light. The output of the cable would then act as a point source (with the appropriate lens in place).

Based on this little projector, and the rumors of LCD TVs powered by LED illumination, I'd guess that there are some LEDs out there to get the job done. These may still only be available to OEMs in large quantities though (assuming the OEMs don't have exclusivity on them).

I also have a suspicion that this system is not based on white LEDs (which are really modified blue LEDs, which is surprising, when you consider how good the color temperature ends up being). Instead, it's probably RGBs with dichroics mixing the colors. This would avoid the colorwheel needed in a DLP system, which would take up quite a bit of space and power.

Anyway, enough of this rambling. If this thing hits the market, and the picture quality is good (I'm mostly worried it won't be bright enough), then I'll get one. The speculative price is lower than a typical LCD or DLP projector, and there's no $600/yr operating fee (new bulbs). I wouldn't even worry about the cost of replacing the LEDs, since that's 10-20 years down the road (assuming pretty heavy usage).

Re:LEDs

[syukton]

Actually, this raises some important points.

One is lifetime. Lumileds' Luxeon solution licks nuts compared to Lamina's LTCC-M technology. There's no better way to say it, really. Luxeons de-rate signifcantly after 20,000 hours while Lamina's modules are much more robust. LEDs are nice in that they don't "burn out" (unless you pump too much current through them. heh.) but instead they just get dimmer over time. So 10 years down the line you need to set your projector a little closer to the wall and have a screen a bit smaller. ahwell.

Another good point is packaging. When I say "array" or "cluster" you need to understand what Lamina has done. They've created a ceramic substrate into which they can directly layer circuit traces, and this substrate exhibits an incredibly high degree of heat conductivity, able to wick away large amounts of heat from the individual LED chips used. An LED chip is tiny. Imagine the head of a pin--that tiny. All of the stuff around the "LED" as most people are familiar with it is just packaging: the leads, the epoxy casing, etc. What Lamina has done is take packaging to the next level by doing away with most of the epoxy and clustering many LED chips densely on this extremely nice heat-conducting surface. That little less-than-1.25x1.25 device I was talking about has 39 cavities, each cavity containing, I believe, 6 LED chips, which would be 234 LED chips total.

Let's compare with A 5mm LED. Assuming circular uniformity, the cross-sectional area of a a 5mm LED is about 19 square mm. This works out to about 4500 square mm for 234 5mm LEDs. Lamina's solution, at an exact 26.7mm x 31.8mm, occupies slightly under 850 square mm, or about 1/5 the space.

They have a pretty spiffy RGB module too, which I suspect will be in a projector before too long. Oh, and these little buggers get HOT too; an active heatsink is REQUIRED.

Re:LEDs

[Anonymous Coward]

Compare to a small arc metal halide, which lasts maybe 500-2000 hours, EXPLODES as a common failuremode, and then has to be replaced at a cost of $300-$500.

Re:LEDs

[EvilTwinSkippy]

DLPs are a lot more effiecient with light because they use reflection instead of diffustion to control light. A polarizer takes 50% of the light out, even if it passes straight through. DLP's are about 80% reflective. So a white wall is about 40% brighter on a DLP using the same bulb as the LCD.

I've seen it

[hungsolo]

I saw the only working model (in the world!) of this over the Christmas holidays. I know someone at TI working on the project. The only issue with it is the brightness. The team are/were working that issue and by now they may have solved it.

When my wife saw it (we were at a holiday dinner when it was shown around the table) she said it was the neatest little thing, but could they make it smaller!

The next comment shocked me: "We're working on making it half that size."

Re:I've seen it

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine that as the subject for you next spam. I am sure they will get a better reception .

CRUSHED!

[krunk4ever]

at first it would just lag and not load, now it's displaying this error message.

We're being CRUSHED by a slashdot reference -- please check back later as we get control back... - CHAITGEAR Staff

Re:Mirror - NO NEED

[davebytes]

I got the site back up and running.. Wish someone had warned me! ;)

Original article has 3 pix and the press release..

[davebytes]

Now that I've got static caching turned on, the original slashed article should be reachable again. ;) -d

Ummm, it IS a DLP...

[davebytes]

And it weighs/measures just a FRACTION of comparable units.

Well, but that points back to CHAITGEAR...

[davebytes]

Ahhh, the fun of aggregation. :) -d

CHAITGEAR's alive and well...

[davebytes]

Took me forEVER to figure out I was being slashattacked, and I've temporarily added in a static-page-caching mechanism for WordPress. I lose some of my dynamic code, but the site keeps running. ;)

Re:CHAITGEAR's alive and well...

[blanne]

Then maybe that's why the article is duplicated 3 times on the page? Kindof purpose-defying, at least for the bandwidth!

Re:CHAITGEAR's alive and well...

[davebytes]

Yeah, there were bugs in the static-page-cache system I threw up there to reduce the load. Thanks for pointing it out! I fixed it this morning, looks much better all across the site. Thanks! -d

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[mrchaotica]

I don't know about 500, but I think it would last at least 50. There's no filament to burn out and no heat generated, you know.

This is cool...

[cr0sh]

This is a pretty cool projector - I currently own a projector that is old and larger than this (and difficult as hell to find bulbs for, since they are 6V bulbs), but still pretty tiny: the Fujix P401 - it was sold (IIRC) sometime in the 80's - it was about the size of a couple of VHS tapes stacked, and the resolution is really crappy - 320x200 or something like that. Image quality isn't too bad as long as you keep it below 40" or so. At its max size of around 60" or so, pixels are pretty big and ugly, but still viewable to an extent. Colors aren't great, a little washed out. It only takes composite input - it was designed to allow you to playback your tapes from a camcorder (one presumes a Fuji camcorder). One neat feature it has that this new projector doesn't (not that it needs it), is the ability to flip the lens so that you could use an "internally" built mini-rear-projection screen, a couple of inches diagonal...

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[doodlelogic]

Well fair enough, that's a long haul and might sell it to me. Not orders of magnitude though!

For those who dont want to carry their projector..

[wavephorm]

http://www.lumenlab.com/

Re:20k hours Lamp?

[mrchaotica]

Oh, all right, one order of magnitude then! Happy now? Sheesh.

Oblig. Simpsons Quote

[Sirch]

Chaka Khan, Chaka Khan? Save me Chaka Khan!

Forgive me, I don't usually jump on any bandwagons. But this ep was on last night.

But that's 20th century tech.

[Corpus_Callosum]

This is the first time I have run across this phrase: "But that's 20th century tech".

It marks a threshold in my mind. Interesting. I will now predict that this phrase "20th century tech" will become part of popular culture, describing shoddy, low-tech, incompatible, bug-prone, poorly designed gadgets that have no style.

Some info on Brightness

[ekarjala]

This Insight Media review from CES indicates only 10 lumens for this device - good for a 10-15" effective display. Hopefully this technology will improve further.

Obi-Wan, you're our only hope!

[Thecarpe]

So when does the R2-D2 interface come out? I want to see that little pocket rocket spinning around on the head of a droid-shaped pedastal throwing little pictures of Princess L. and schematics of the Death Star on my walls like a disco ball with parkinsons! Fill the R2 unit with a hard drive, some speakers, a mini satelite dish, a digital cable card and XP and store up a bunch of movies so he can follow me around and give me movies on demand. I would settle for a little bigger in R2's barrel so that he could double as a kegerator! Game on baby - Babylon has arrived and it's just SVGA!

Augmenting reality with projectors...

[mindpixel]

http://www.merl.com/people/raskar/geomproj.html

Abstract

Projectors are currently undergoing a transformation as they evolve from static output devices to portable, environment-aware, communicating systems. An enhanced projector can determine and respond to the geometry of the display surface, and can be used in an ad-hoc cluster to create a self-configuring display. Information display is such a prevailing part of everyday life that new and more flexible ways to present data are likely to have significant impact. This paper examines geometrical issues for enhanced projectors, relating to customized projection for different shapes of display surface, object augmentation, and co-operation between multiple units.

We introduce a new technique for adaptive projection on nonplanar surfaces using conformal texture mapping. We describe object augmentation with a hand-held projector, including interaction techniques. We describe the concept of a display created by an ad-hoc cluster of heterogeneous enhanced projectors, with a new global alignment scheme, and new parametric image transfer methods for quadric surfaces, to make a seamless projection. The work is illustrated by several prototypes and applications.

Rainbow effect

[jazman]

So you'll still get rainbows then. At first I thought it had a set of three 800x600 LED-powered light sources, but on closer inspection it appears they're simply replacing a white light source and RGB colour wheel with RGB light sources.

I don't understand why they don't release a 3-way DLP projector at a reasonable price. My OutOfFocus X2 cost £800; that makes £2400 for a rainbow-free DLP projector. But all 3-way DLPs seem to assume you're running a cinema and are priced accordingly, and all DLPs that cost 3x a basic 1-DLP still only have 1 DLP chip and a stack of expensive electronics that should IMHO cost nowhere near as much as it does.

I'm dead chuffed with my IF X2 though. The only thing I'd change it for is a short throw native 16:9 projector - vertical bars with a 4x3 screen make much more sense to me than horizontal bars, especially as my wall is much wider than it is tall.

Although I can see rainbows they don't really bother me. It only happens when I flick my eyes rapidly from one part of the screen to another, but generally I stare at the centre and watch the film with peripheral vision.

High resolution small lcd's

[benow]

Anyone know of a source of high resolution small LCD panels? I've found an 8" 8" XGA LCD, which would make a nice display for a homebrew LED projector, but it would be even better to have SXGA or higher res in that size or smaller. Anyone know of any sources?

Re:N/A? (Guh.)

[stonecypher]

Do distinguish please between Not Applicable and Not Available.