Slashdot Mirror


Web Design on a Shoestring

charliedickinson writes "Web Design on a Shoestring offers the premise that modest budgets for Web development can pay off in focused, uncluttered, appealing Web sites. Author Carrie Bickner, who took on Web development with a professional background as a librarian (she is now Assistant Director for Digital Information and System Design at The New York Public Library), eschews the nuts-and-bolts mechanics of Web page crafting for a comprehensive overview of 'project management, usability, design, copywriting, hosting, and post-launch maintenance.'" Read on for the rest of Dickinson's review. Web Design on a Shoestring author Carrie Bickner pages 220 publisher New Riders Publishing rating 6 reviewer Charlie Dickinson ISBN 0735713286 summary A broad offering of tips on how to create and maintain a Website with limited resources.

Bickner defines the audience for this book with four brief portraits of hypothetical individuals, all of whom need Web sites in a fairly low-key, resource-poor way. That is, something from the Web equivalent of an entrepreneur's business card to a non-profit organization's Web site. Although Bickner is apt to invoke "we Web professionals," this book is not really appropriate to Web creatives-for-hire (who would be better advised to seek out clients with the wherewithal to ask for something original, cool, and spendy). This book's broad scope is better suited to those with a more casual interest in Web sites, or those who have added Webmastering to other job responsibilities.

But the more I read, the more I was convinced Bickner's shoestring design theory went beyond financially embarrassed budgets. In a spirit of inquiry, I looked at two Web sites where skimpy budgets should not apply. Namely, the world's two richest persons and their employers. Microsoft's Web page is a well-wrought, complex assemblage of linked pages (though the splash page's security download du jour fairly shouts subtext). In contrast, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway's Web site is possibly more shoestring than even Bickner would advocate. The point being, even when the financial resources are bountiful, one can always, as Bickner says, "dare to do less."

One first impression of Web Design on a Shoestring is its excellent organization, an attribute librarians assume with famous pride (working in a library -- though not as a degreed librarian -- I've observed the species up close). Each chapter begins with a checklist preview. The text has ample sidebars covering budget gotchas ("Budget Threat"), saving opportunities ("Spinning Straw into Gold"), and special definitions. Plenty of screen shots (mostly from Mac OS X) and code listings visually support topics under discussion.

After the intro and first chapter set out the book's scope, Chapter Two, "The Pound Wise Project Plan," tackles how one might spec out a Web site project. This is the analytical, well-organized approach: a goal list, plus written documents for functional requirements and technical requirements. "Brainstorming," inspiration, playing with what a Web site might look like -- that's probably for another book, another author. In a book titled Web Design on a Shoestring, though, I did expect some definition, in real dollar ranges, of what constitutes a "shoestring budget."

Chapter Three, "Usability on the Cheap," is a once-over-lightly of several arguments made earlier in Steve Krug's Don't Make Me Think! One of the themes in this book, accessibility, comes naturally to librarians, who work in the public arena. Bickner offers brief, informed comments about how page navigation can work sans mouse and sans Java.

Chapters Four and Five are key to any Web site creation: copy and graphics, respectively. For the supposed target audience, I wanted to see a tutorial approach, but the book's ambitious scope appears to preclude anything other than summary discussion. "Why Good Copy Counts" covers writing style, appropriate voice, plus the need to chunk and headline text. Bickner correctly claims words are a powerful tool for elevating the status of a low-budget site. On words alone, the playing field among Web site creators is level. Moreover, words -- in digital format -- need minimal computing resources compared to other tasks like image processing.

The next chapter, "The Design: Looking Good With Less," continues with the basics of font selection and usage, the advisability of using Cascading Style Sheets for fonts and colors, and some tips on keeping graphics and artwork affordable. When it came to image editors, I thought Bickner's command to buy Adobe Photoshop (or the alternative Macromedia Fireworks) arguable: "... in the case of image editors, I am not going to suggest an inexpensive alternative; spend the money. If you skimp on image editors, your site will suffer."

Even a year before Web Design on a Shoestring's publication date, Adobe Photoshop Elements was available. I run Elements on a Windows partition--reputedly eighty-percent of the functionality of the professional version at a fraction of the price. Unfortunately, no mention is given to the open-source and cross-platform GIMP (which should not be ignored, given the shoestring premise). A major flaw of this book, for this reviewer, was the relative lack of dollar-based data to bring alive the shoestring strategy -- I need more than pictures of shoelaces to get in the spirit.

But Bickner warms up to open-source software in Chapter 7, the second longest chapter in the book. "Content Management on a Tight Budget," left me wondering, though, whether the book's audience had morphed. Yes, Content-Management Systems (CMS) have benefits, especially for concurrent authoring and version control, but I don't see individuals putting together Web sites on a shoestring budget worrying such issues. I'd speculate discussions of such CMS as Zope (Bickner uses Zope for one of her sites) had more to do with her work at keeping Web sites functional at NYPL than identifiable needs of the target audience proposed in the book's intro.

Chapter 8, the longest chapter, "Save Money and Time with Web Standards," is a fairly predictable plea for contemporary coding conventions to separate structure and presentation with XHTML and CSS. Evidently, Ms. Bickner has a personal interest in this advocacy. As she notes in the last paragraph of the chapter, "Jeffrey Zeldman is my personal favorite web standards evangelist ... his book Designing with Web Standards fills in where this chapter leaves off. I know that because as I write this book, he is sitting behind me writing his book. We don't get out much."

The last chapter, "Bang-for-Your-Buck Hosting and Domains," is a caveat emptor about finding a satisfactory host to serve up the newly created shoestring Web site. Predictably, low-ball rates do not guarantee long-term happiness.

At book's end, I concluded Web Design on a Shoestring's intriguing premise and ambitious scope made for good intentions. But the execution (spotty and thin discussions, with a paucity of dollar-based illustrative data) did not add up to a $24.99 recommended buy. (A library loan, maybe.)

If one really wants to design a Web site on a shoestring, go for the rifle, not the shotgun. Pick up Steve Krug's Don't Make Me Think! for usability and any book, new or used, by Robin Williams for Web design. I vouch for Krug and Williams because any page of their books shows the understanding and passion of a person in their gift. Reading these books generates enthusiasm the DIYer on a shoestring must have.

In contrast, rewards of reading Bickner often turn out to be, I hope, unintentional. The "easter egg" of reading Ms. Bickner's home address and home phone number in a screenshot figure showing Zope metadata. A "Definition: UNIX and Linux" I'm tempted to e-mail Richard Stallman. But it was the final paragraph that gave Web Design on a Shoestring a sweet finish:

"Shoestring design is not for the rich and famous, although shoestring designers have occasionally spun straw into gold and low-budget sites into fame and fortune. It is also not for the unmotivated or the easily discouraged. But if you keep at it, you will grow creatively and professionally in ways you never imagined. And that is something no amount of money can buy. See you in the discount rack!"

I trust Warren Buffett will never read these words.

Before joining Multnomah County Library, reviewer Charlie Dickinson was a technical writer for a publications group at Intel and elsewhere. His Web sites are "stories & more", first hatched in 1998; and "An American in Yaris" , a fledgling work-in-progress. You can purchase Web Design on a Shoestring from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

214 comments

  1. Web Design on a Shoestring by Agret · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does this mean that 1 line webpages will become populour?

    --
    Have you metaroderated recently?
    1. Re:Web Design on a Shoestring by cuzality · · Score: 4, Informative


      I think it could mean more people will begin to use Mambo and other free CMSs to put up a website.

    2. Re:Web Design on a Shoestring by thempstead · · Score: 1

      Having played with Mambo for the last month, (and only breaking it enough to require manual editing of the database to fix once), I would say that using it is no bad thing ... working out my own template for the site has helped me understand CSS better and having a prebuilt structure is good for letting you worry about the bits you want to worry about and having the structure there to handle the rest ...

      t

  2. In my opinion by AviLazar · · Score: 4, Informative

    The most important thing you need to realize about a website is the color scheme. Website layouts are easy to make (use CSS to help save your life in the future)...but coming out with eye appealing colors is so key. We want it to be original so we avoid colors like white, but we don't want it to hurt/offend the eyes.

    --

    I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    1. Re:In my opinion by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 4, Funny
      We want it to be original so we avoid colors like white, but we don't want it to hurt/offend the eyes.

      Obviously, Slasdhdot did not consult you before creating this.

    2. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...but we don't want it to hurt/offend the eyes."

      You mean like the old /. IT color scheme?

    3. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Do not use yellow text on a white page.

    4. Re:In my opinion by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      Shame on them, shame on them :D

      Nothing is wrong with using white, I just find that when I design web pages I try and avoid the white background - why? Because so many people use it...Maybe a cream color? I think /. is a great layout (except that one time they put the god awful puke/beige color I believe it was). I like the green/blue layout schemas :D

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    5. Re:In my opinion by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 1
      except that one time they put the god awful puke/beige color

      Sounds like you didn't click on my link. :)

    6. Re:In my opinion by Kainaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The most important thing you need to realize about a website is the color scheme.

      I think this should, at most, be second most important. The most important part of any website is the content. With a long history of web design, the most troubling issue is trying to get content out of the clients. They worry about color, logos, font size, on and on. After a year, all I can get is a pretty page that says "Content will go here when the client pulls their heads out of their asses."

      Another problem is having print-advertisers involved in the design. In print advertising, it is very important to catch the browser's eye. Be it a bulletin board or magazine ad, you want to get attention. On the web, people don't walk or drive past random websites. They do some sort of action that makes a website appear. Once they type in a URL or click on a google link, they want content. They don't want a 15 minute flash intro that makes the advertising department all hot and wet. So, again, the top priority is content.

      --
      The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
    7. Re:In my opinion by 955301 · · Score: 1


      What the heck are you talking about? Your own website has a placeholder page for crying out loud!

      Besides, websites are the scorge of the software industry. The Internet would be much more useful if less time was spent trying to differentiate brands and more time was spent making similar functions, such as store locators, online purchasing and information catalogs more consistent.

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    8. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or use pink text on a purple page.

    9. Re:In my opinion by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      I was about to, and i had this foreboding feeling - i ignored it and clicked anyhow...just got back from the bathroom....thanks PAL!

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    10. Re:In my opinion by AviLazar · · Score: 4, Informative

      The last webpage i designed. I had one brochure and was asked to design it. The site is up (i am not 100% happy with it) and they are giving the site information out (they seem to be happy with it), but the actual data is not complete (it's liking pulling hairs from a dolphin).

      Yea content is key (thats the point of the site). I love flash, i hate waiting for some insane flash page that just says "loading"....Flash can be done in great ways - most people botch it up - so I agree it can suck...i think design is the most important. If someone makes a poor looking web page, people won't even bother to give the information a fair shake.

      Lets make a black background with forest green text ;)

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    11. Re:In my opinion by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      Actually, my personal/business web page should be pretty much down. I was in the process of moving to another ISP but have been to busy to complete the process. If you want a sample of my work, ne-eye.com and afaeh.org are site' that i designed. The afaeh.org does is not complete due to the owners not providing me the data that I need.

      One thing I know many people to do in the past - while they offer great looking sites to their customers, they do a half-assed job on their own sites for whatever reason.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    12. Re:In my opinion by micromoog · · Score: 1
      Apart from the web, almost all of the written word in existence is in black on white. It's easiest on the eyes.

      If you really must be different for the sake of being different, please try to stick with extremely high-contrast colors (like black on off-white, or white on black).

    13. Re:In my opinion by uberdave · · Score: 2

      while they offer great looking sites to their customers, they do a half-assed job on their own sites for whatever reason.

      The cobbler's children never have shoes.

    14. Re:In my opinion by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The most important part of any website is the content.

      While I'm generally with you, I'm not sure you can make that generalization with perfect confidence. Playing devils advocate, I can think of non-trivial counterexamples.

      For example, you are a small business on the web, let's say you're a health club. Chances are you are not all that interested in running a free excercise and nutrition service. You want to accomplish two things:

      (1) Get the user excited about your business.
      (2) Give the user your location and phone.

      OK, arguably item two is content, but you aren't going to spend a lot of time wondering what they should be. You are going to give quite a bit more thought to the impression that you give.

      Furthermore, the rubric "content" may be too broad, containing qualitatively different things. For example, I'm a business selling some product over the Internet. Now maybe I want to put all kinds of support information about my products on my web site. But it might not be my highest priority. My highest priority might be to make it convenient and easy to locate the item you want and order it from my on-line store. This, I guess, is "content-y", but really it's equally if not more a matter of good organization.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    15. Re:In my opinion by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      Obviously, Slasdhdot did not consult you before creating this.

      That's nothing compared to this.

    16. Re:In my opinion by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 0

      or This Damn, that red BURNS my eyes.

    17. Re:In my opinion by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      Nor this.

    18. Re:In my opinion by Kainaw · · Score: 1

      You are correct. As with most /. posts, I was being overly brief. Content is different for different businesses. A health club needs to make it quickly obvious what services they have and how to get to their club. Online sales need to get the products to the forefront. I used that in my last website design. I put the cart and products right up front and all the other 'useful but not necessary' stuff behind links.

      --
      The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
    19. Re:In my opinion by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      I don't remember being overwhelmed by the cries of "why didn't they print this book on coloured paper, white paper is so old" when I visit the bookshop.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    20. Re:In my opinion by StalinsNotDead · · Score: 1

      Do not use yellow text on a white page.

      Or any large amount of text on a high contrast background.

      --
      Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
    21. Re:In my opinion by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Black background and green text (any flavour of green, especially lime) should be made illegal.

      The only thing worse is when people use Times New Roman with the wonderful colours of red, blue, yellow and lime green. (Mix and match background and text) then get their granny to go "ooh very nice dear" and they call it their homepage.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    22. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The old KPT page curl plugin!!!! Oh noes!!!!!!!

      It's like 1997!

      My eyes- The goggles do nothing!

    23. Re:In my opinion by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      That page needs a 1em margin around the edge. Bad.

      My monitor had about 3 pixels floating off the side of the screen that I hadn't noticed yet, but I did when I went to that site, 'cuz parts of some of the letters were missing.

      A little bit of a buffer on either side is usually a good idea. Most users probably don't even know how to adjust their monitor to fix the problem, and it's common for a monitor to need adjustment after a resolution change or getting a fresh install of one's OS.

      Besides, even with the monitor properly adjusted it's a pain to read text that butts right up against the side of the viewable area.

      All IMHO, of course :)

      That's the only thing that really popped out at me, though. Nice site.

    24. Re:In my opinion by 955301 · · Score: 2, Funny


      Did you look at the "great looking sites" he identified? The cobbler's clients don't have shoes either.

      It's a sad day for graphics design. Heh.

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    25. Re:In my opinion by Manhog · · Score: 1

      Adam Polselli's 2005 Color Forecast should sort you out there. Mmm. Purple.

      --
      All out of bubblegum...
    26. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you go for the mass-market paperback--that's black on lightgreyish--or some hardbacks--black on beige.

    27. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most important thing you need to realize about a website is the color scheme.

      And that is why you keep reading Slashdot, for the color scheme instead of content. Riiiiiight.

    28. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We want it to be original so we avoid colors like white" I really hope your not a designer.... original != white, riiiiiight,

    29. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but when I start reading the 'About NEI' page, the background graphic makes my eyes go all buggy.

      Or, since they are an eye institute, was that a requested feature by the client? :-)

    30. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even worse, a blue background with white text.

    31. Re:In my opinion by The-Bus · · Score: 1

      He just forecast every possible color.

      He has, literally, every single hue on there. What a goon.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    32. Re:In my opinion by TheKarateMaster · · Score: 1

      Ideally, don't avoid white -- just don't make your whole fricking page white. Take a look at textfiles.com. _THAT'S_ what happens when you avoid white. AAAHH!!! My Eyes!!! Now look at slashdot. _THAT'S_ what happens when you love white just a little too much. (j/k)

      I agree that CSS will save your life. Also, try the PHP include() feature. With a combination of the two, code for individual pages can essentially be kept to plain text/content. Feel the power.

    33. Re:In my opinion by Eivind · · Score: 1
      You wouldn't believe how many small businesses *fail* to include rudimentary info like that. Sometimes they even have sites that obviously took several man-weeks if not man-months to "design" but for example:

      • Don't list a email-adress or contact-form anywhere.
      • Fail to give their phone-numer or adress.
      • Are a swimming-hall but forget to mention their opening hours (probably the no-1 fact people want to know)
      • Present some product but fail to mention what it costs, OR how to order it.

      Sure. A small site doesn't need large amounts of content. But it does need some. And if that content isn't there then any amount of investment in flashy design is wasted.

      Indeed many sites that have overinvested in "pretty" design are completely unusable, so even when the content IS there I go somewhere else.

    34. Re:In my opinion by flashgc · · Score: 1

      Concur, concur, concur! Content drives the whole show. I encourage clients to contribute whatever information, however obscure, that relates to their main focus so that search engines can better relate to their site as a whole. It 'improves the odds' considerably.

      --
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
    35. Re:In my opinion by Tetsugaku-San · · Score: 1

      That sir, is Bull.

      The most important thing is your interface because of course without that - no once can do anything *BUT* look at the pretty colours.

    36. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea content is key ... i think design is the most important

      so which is it? ;)

    37. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (1) Get the user excited about your business.

      How are you going to do that without content?

      OK, arguably item two is content

      No, your location and phone number are definitely content.

      My highest priority might be to make it convenient and easy to locate the item you want and order it from my on-line store. This, I guess, is "content-y", but really it's equally if not more a matter of good organization.

      No. Your highest priority is to make it possible to locate the item you want. The item is content. Your priority is putting that content on the web.

      A lower priority might be making it easy for your visitors to do, but that doesn't trump actually putting the content on there.

    38. Re:In my opinion by Hognoxious · · Score: 1
      Apart from the web, almost all of the written word in existence is in black on white. It's easiest on the eyes.
      So it's got nothing to do with it being easier to print dark ink onto light paper rather than vice-versa?
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    39. Re:In my opinion by Hognoxious · · Score: 1
      Black background and green text (any flavour of green, especially lime) should be made illegal.
      If you'd got your wish in 1970, there'd be no computers at all! Seriously, have you never used a dumb terminal?
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    40. Re:In my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vice-versa would be fine too, for readability. I'm talking about the lack of, say, blue ink on red paper. Which would be easy to print. And murder on the eyes.

    41. Re:In my opinion by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      I meant in the context of crap web design, sepcifically Times New Roman. Terminal Green is fine, because it was designed to be readable (bold fonts etc), Times New Roman sucks.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    42. Re:In my opinion by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      Very few hardcopy publications have ever been done on pure white paper with pure black ink. Part of the reason for this is that literal "black on white" is harsh and tires the reader's eyes.

      Visit an office supply store and you find dozens of different papers that all look "white" until you start comparing between them. Look at the "black" inks they have available for fountain pens and you'll find that not all "blacks" are black in the same way.

      On the computer screen there are more than 4,000 colors between #EFEFEF and #FFFFFF that are each going to look white to your visitor, unless you contrast them with #FFFFFF or each other. There are also thousands of colors approaching #000000 that visitors will describe as black text, even though they are not.

      Using off-whites and off-blacks that either complement or reinforce each other is a great way of setting the tone for a web page.

  3. I wonder... by Arctic+Dragon · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wonder if these guys read the book...

  4. New York by stupidfoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why does a a state need a Assistant Director for Digital Information and System Design for their library system?

    1. Re:New York by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      I guess I was wrong, the NY Public Library is for New York City

      And people wonder why the city of NY has a government 1/7th the size of the federal government...

    2. Re:New York by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 0

      Do you ever get the feeling a lot of jobs are created for the sole reason of being filled by prepicked people?

    3. Re:New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      We have 8 million people, and since we all live in close proximity to each other, we understand the need for good public services. Some quick facts about the NYPL:

      - over 49 million items in 4 research libraries and 85 branch libraries
      - 74% of funding is from government; they get the other 26% from contributions, endowment, etc.
      - 15 million visitors/year
      http://www.nypl.org/pr/objects/pdf/2003nyplfacts.p df

      They need an assistant director for digital stuff, among their 3000+ employees, because their website gets 10M hits/year, and they're working hard on digital collections -- an eBook program, cardholder access to hundreds of databases, and digitizing their own collection.

      For example, they have done a great job with a digital version of this new exhibit at one of the research libraries:
      http://www.inmotionaame.org/

      Besides, if we want a government 1/7th the size of the federal govt, why shouldn't we have one?

    4. Re:New York by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 1

      Why does a a state need a Assistant Director for Digital Information and System Design for their library system?

      Maybe because libraries are not about books, they are about information. Any modern library takes digital information very seriously - the stereotype of librarian as an old lady with her gray hair in a bun running around susshing people has nothing to at all to do with a modern library.

      Librarians as a group tend to have at least two things in common with slashdotters:

      1) Strong privacy rights advocates. They have been at the forefront of fighting the patriot act, going so far as to modify their computerized loan systems to delete all traces of a user's borrowing history once the book/media has been returned.

      2) Strong advocates of the "information wants to be free" meme. This doesn't just mean lending books for free, but also making sure that their libraries have purchased online subscriptions to all kinds of non-free content so that patrons of the library can access it for free.

      Librarians are on the bleeding edge of some of the coolest developments on the Internet, anyone who thinks otherwise just hasn't been paying attention to the important role that modern librarians play in development of the net.

    5. Re:New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, if we want a government 1/7th the size of the federal govt, why shouldn't we have one?


      You're wasting your breath. The hillbillies will never believe you need more than Barney and Andy to run a modern metropolis.

  5. Easy by Neil+Blender · · Score: 4, Funny

    Find a site you like (there are literally millions to choose from.)

    Copy the html.

    Change the content to match your company.

    Bingo....cheap website.

    1. Re:Easy by AviLazar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      until someone finds out and sues you for copying their code, layout, etc.

      And yes some company (I wont name) copied my companies site (even the text word for word)... once we found out, their site was taken down on pain of lawyers.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    2. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Even easier: use a template from FrontPage. Your site will look professional and it will help you attract a lot of business.

    3. Re:Easy by mu-sly · · Score: 5, Funny

      Find a site you like (there are literally millions to choose from.)
      Copy the html.
      Change the content to match your company.
      Bingo....cheap website.

      You forgot:

      ...Find yourself humiliated on Pirated Sites

    4. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      until someone finds out and sues you for copying their code, layout, etc.

      And yes some company (I wont name) copied my companies site (even the text word for word)... once we found out, their site was taken down on pain of lawyers.

      until someone finds out and sues you for copying their code, layout, etc.

      And yes some company (I wont name) copied my companies site (even the text word for word)... once we found out, their site was taken down on pain of lawyers.

      Sue me. I just copied your post. Twice.

    5. Re:Easy by coKestar · · Score: 1

      you forgot a few steps

      5. PROFIT!!
      6. Beg for donations to fight impending legal battle s for steal from said company
      7. Beg some more..
      8. Settle
      9. MORE PROFIT!!
      10. Get free design from http://mpaa.org/

    6. Re:Easy by cham31e0n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I seriously hope you're kidding. It's easy, and it's incredibly tempting. Some people might even be impressed by "your" handiwork. Then the person or company you ripped off will find out eventually. If they're a large corporation, they may send a pack of bloodthirsty intellectual property lawyers your way. Even if you get away with as little as a cease-and-desist order, you're going to wind up having to re-do your site, probably at great expense, unless you want to take your chances and copy another one. You'll also be mocked by creative types, who will be more than happy to send streams of irate emails (and possibly phone calls) your way. Then it begins to affect your bottom line, because by now your customers will have found out. Discouraged by your less-than-honest practices, will consider taking their business elsewhere.

      In short: do it right, and do it yourself (or pay reputable creative professionals to do it for you).

    7. Re:Easy by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      Of course, some of those sites could simply be multiple companies purchasing the same cheap web template.

    8. Re:Easy by Neil+Blender · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was joking but given the paradigms embraced here at Slashdot, I am not surprised that it was modded both insightful and interesting.

    9. Re:Easy by ad0gg · · Score: 1

      Or just goto to one many template sites and buy a template for $20 to $80. Drop your content in and your done. For dynamic driven content, grab nuke portal software. You can easily have full operating website in a weekend sans content of course.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    10. Re:Easy by cham31e0n · · Score: 1

      Pity sarcasm is so difficult to convey over the internet. Though given the incredibly deadpan way you said it, I had a feeling. :-)

    11. Re:Easy by cham31e0n · · Score: 1

      Maybe. But having been in the business before, lots of the entries on that site are submitted by the original designers themselves. Designers are none too happy when they discover that their work--worth thousands of dollars in some cases--was ripped off by someone paid $50 (or even less).

    12. Re:Easy by martinX · · Score: 1

      And will look just like all those other FP template sites :-)

      Plus if your web "designer" is lazy enough to do that, then chances are they are going to be pretty crap at creating a site more complex than a brochure.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    13. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, laugh it up.

      You won't think you're so slick when the WDAA (Web Design Association of America) comes after you!!11one!

    14. Re:Easy by bigpat · · Score: 1

      I find your suggestion reprehensible... nobody ever copies another's sacred layout on the web.

      Just use this very clean looking search page from Yahoo and just try and find too web pages that look remotely similar: http://search.yahoo.com/

    15. Re:Easy by G-funk · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whoosh!

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    16. Re:Easy by HooliganIntellectual · · Score: 1

      You mean that some web developer has the time to annoy people with his arrogance that web developers hsould never steal, borrow, or copy from other developers? I've been a webmaster and web developer since 1995 and I've freely borrowed designs, graphics and so on from other websites. The guy who runs "Pirated Sites" is just ignorant about how the creative process works. EVERY artist borrows, steals and is influenced by other artists. There is seldom anything that is truly "original." It really sounds like the Pirated Sites guy is bucking for a job with the intelectual property fascists at MPAA.

    17. Re:Easy by mu-sly · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's quite a big difference between being influenced by a design and copying the website in full before changing some text here and there.

      Think of it like taking a sample from some music - which is something I do pretty regularly, being an electronic musician in my spare time.

      If took a sample of (say) The Beatles and did something new and original with it (like mangling it beyond comprehension), that would be the creative process in action.

      If I burned a copy of The White Album and released it under my own name, merely changing some of the song titles and dubbing my own lyrics over it, that would be akin to what's being exhibited over at Pirate Sites.

      In my day job as a web developer, I regularly borrow a bit here and there from other sources (a CSS trick, bit of JavaScript, idea for a simple background pattern and so on), but that's a whole different ballpark than taking a 1:1 copy of a site before changing a few details and releasing it as "my own work".

      You claim to understand the creative process, so surely you can see the difference?

      The difference is between being inspired to understand a technique and implement it in your own way, versus plagiarizing it verbatum.

    18. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of the sites listed as pirated have been changed since, just like this one.... hey wait a minute... (checks source) That's my calendar! right down to the spelling mistakes in class names!

      (this really just happened)

    19. Re:Easy by b17bmbr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      while one cannot "steal" graphics, it would be hard to argue that copying someone's .css file, or a bunch of nested tables, considering that the source is a click away, is copyright infringement. obviously, one could argue, what's it called, brand dilution, if i set up a site called ebey.com and copied the general layout and functionality. but that's different. i someone took layout from one of my sites, hell, i'd be flattered. i'd think it would be quite difficult to trademark html. and,considering that most sites follow the header/3 column layout, how original can one really be.

      now, my wife does part-time photography, and belogns to several photo forums. a thread recently had several photo websites that leached everything, even galleries, but, hard linked the photos to the original server. so when the original site owner found out, they replaced the leached photos with gay porn. but that's a bit different.

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    20. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >>I've been a webmaster and web developer since 1995 and I've freely borrowed designs, graphics and so on from other websites.

      Then you are an unethical, worthless, fucking leech!

      And please, don't call yourself a 'designer' because if you have to resort to stealing other peoples work then you obviously couldn't design shit!

    21. Re:Easy by TG1 · · Score: 0

      Are we to presume you haven't actually looked at the pirated sites page then? Because obviously if you had seen it then you'd agree that 99% of those sites haven't simply borrowed or been influenced by other sites, rather completely and blatently ripped them off. There's absolutely no excuse what these people have done. And if that's your idea of "influence" then you're just as bad as the other guys.

  6. Cheap Site by Space_Soldier · · Score: 5, Informative

    Step one to creating a cheap web site is to to not buy useless web books. All you need to know is on the web. Start with A List Apart.

    1. Re:Cheap Site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mod parent up

    2. Re:Cheap Site by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yup, that and http://htmlhelp.com.

    3. Re:Cheap Site by renderhead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just because you can find the information on the web doesn't mean that's the best way to get it for everybody. A book is a good way to present information in an organized and always-accessible way.

      Books also do something that almost all websites (including ALA) lack: information presented in the order in which it's easiest to learn. I use ALA all the time. It's a great reference, but that's what it's for - reference. Learning something from scratch is a lot harder when you have to glean your knowledge from sites that have unclear assumptions about your existing skills, or if you are unfamiliar enough with the subject that you don't know what to search for.

      --
      I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.

      -RenderHead

    4. Re:Cheap Site by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

      A List Apart is a terrific site, if you're already familiar with HTML, CSS, and perhaps some JavaScript.

      As a resource for the novice user, however... no way. Uh uh. Heck, their motto is "For people who make websites," plural, which isn't likely to be an apt description of the target audience for this book.

      Don't Make Me Think , mentioned elsewhere in the review: good, but Joe Shmoe who just wants to get his site up and running isn't likely to read a whole book on usability. A better choice might be Web Style Guide , plus whatever HTML reference you like (http://htmlhelp.com was mentioned elswhere).

    5. Re:Cheap Site by Space_Soldier · · Score: 1

      While learning from references might seem hard at first, I find that references are better because you remember your mistakes and accomplishes and learn faster than following HelloWorld1, HelloWorld2, etc. that an author presents in a book. I guarantee you that you will learn better and faster writing your own code from references than memorizing examples found in books. I tried books and found that they are a waste a money.

    6. Re:Cheap Site by eelsfan · · Score: 1

      Funny enough, A List Apart is put together (or at least spearheaded) by the Web Design on a Shoestring author's husband, Jeffery Zeldman. Maybe the book could have just been a link to that site...

    7. Re:Cheap Site by fm6 · · Score: 1

      But you do appreciate the irony, don't you? All those people out there selling their web expertise, but not using the web to dispense it?

    8. Re:Cheap Site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Maybe the book could have just been a link to that site..."

      I don't get it. How would someone hyperlink from a dead-tree-based book to a page on the internet?

      *** rimshot --> crash!! ***

    9. Re:Cheap Site by rsadelle · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who absolutely hates A List Apart? I think they are one of the most dizzyingly ugly sites around. Red text, even just for headlines and other things that are supposed to stand out, is hard to read. That stripy background unsettles my stomach as I page down. Their More Articles >> once you're in the middle of a topic doesn't give you any easy way to go forward or back to a specific page of results.

      The most frustrating contradiction of web design advice is that when it does appear on the web, it's badly designed.

  7. Berkshire-Hathaway success metric? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your metric of success is "dollars of company revenue per dollar spent on Web site" then (as long as we disallow the division-by-zero case) Buffett's Berkshire-Hathaway looks unbeatable!

  8. What stick do you bang with? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful


    FTFA: "eschews the nuts-and-bolts mechanics of Web page crafting for a comprehensive overview of 'project management..." yadida...

    All well and fine. And I agree with the (book) author's general approach to things. But I don't see any treatment of the question that often makes projects unmanageable--namely, what will you and your neophyte web designers use to code the site?

    The usual answer is the worst answer. Front Page, because it's there.

    Dreamweaver and its kin can turn out nicer stuff, but there's a steeper curve to be learned.

    Best of all is hand-coding, which brings us back to the regrettably eschewed nuts and bolts. Learning curve: steeper still.

    Shoestrings are great, sometimes. And sometimes, you'd be better off investing in a decent pair of boots up front.

  9. View | Source by Reignking · · Score: 1

    View | Source

    That's all you need to know.

    --
    One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
  10. Define "success"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Both Microsoft and Berkshire-Hathaway have websites that achieve their company's goals effectively.

    Berkshire-Hathaway wants to make vital and basic information about the company easy to find on its website. It succeeds.

    Microsoft wants to make vital and basic information about the company hard to find on its website. It, too, succeeds.

    1. Re:Define "success"... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1
      Microsoft wants to make vital and basic information about the company hard to find on its website. It, too, succeeds.

      Damn, is that ever true. I became interested in embedded Windows a couple years ago (I got better), and went the MS web site to get ramped up on it. Four hours later I gave up, none the wiser, with a folder full of PDFs brimming over with marketing gobbledygook.

      And this is from a guy who taught himself FPGA design in two days strictly from the Xilinx web site. I'm good at digging out info and learning new things.

  11. You mean ... by lord_rob+the+only+on · · Score: 1

    ... you're a webdesigner ? :)

    1. Re:You mean ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, yes, I am a web designer!!!

  12. Content Content Content by Eberlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've always been of the philosophy that content is what makes a website. Yes, usability comes in, as well as visual appeal and all that wonderful stuff. However, if you don't have content (and purpose), any amount of eyecandy fluff isn't going to save you.

    I've also always thought that web development/design is a service industry that for a long time have overcharged for what they do. (web devs, hear me out here before you tune out)

    I'm not some artsy guy who can do killer tricks with photoshop...but for the most part, a lot of web stuff is fairly simple to do. Thus I've thought that rates for web work were waaay high.

    Then I worked with the clueless. Folks who ask for a design, then change spec in the end. After a redesign, they want another a week later. People who, after you show them your detailed design document with goals and other specifics, suddenly get amnesia a meeting or two later. It's people like those who tend to drive costs up.

    Don't get me wrong -- I try to clue them in. I'd walk them through the design process and stuff but they don't care for it. I present plans that they sign off on, and they don't care or forget they even agree to it. Then they complain when they find out it's going to cost more.

    Other clients who send electronic versions of copy and images, ask for changes well in advance, and overall request (and respect) rather than obnoxiously demand are a pleasure to work with.

    Shoestring budgets? That's easy enough to work with. Whatever "shoestring" means to you. Being a nightmare client, on the other hand, will eventually cost more. Not necessarily due to being a nightmare, but the extra hours of undoing plans, reimplementing changed specs, etc. will definitely add up.

    1. Re:Content Content Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I present plans that they sign off on, and they don't care or forget they even agree to it.
      They don't care. Afterall, it's not their (the managers') money that's being wasted.
    2. Re:Content Content Content by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Content is important (it's usually the downfall of a brochure site project). But you usually get what you pay for.

      If you want a content-rich website with poor design, you can get that for cheap. And design itself does count for something. Potential customers see your design as reflective of your company - and a poor design (especially when your competitor has a great site) reflects poorly. It's a first impression.

      There are other things that drive up that cost when you hire someone with the experience, knowledge, and ability to do it right.

      Accessibility...
      Reach more people without really doing more work.

      Standards...
      Do I need to explain this?

      Search engine optimization...
      Think images-as-navigation-without-alt-tags.

      Project management...
      This keeps a project on schedule, everything under budget, and communication flowing. Without the ability to manage a project, the chances of failure increase dramatically.

      Documentation...
      If you've ever had to support or update a web application with no documentation to help you, it can be a nightmare. They say that good code doesn't need documentation... too bad there are so many examples of bad code.

      As I tell my clients, you can hire a high school kid or you can send your secretary to a web design class. There are ways to get a website for cheap. And it will show in the design, the search engine placement, the amount of money you spend making minor changes, etc.

      And that's just for a brochure site. Don't get me started on all the insecure web applications out there...

    3. Re:Content Content Content by kminchau · · Score: 1

      Content is important Only if you can get at it effectively.

      I Personally think that a good User Interface is extremely important, and that does NOT necessaraly mean flashy graphics (which can make things even less intuitive at times).

      --
      "Never underestimate the power of the Slashdot!"
    4. Re:Content Content Content by archen · · Score: 1

      if you don't have content (and purpose), any amount of eyecandy fluff isn't going to save you.

      Yeah, that's what I would say is the big hang up. I say to people, what is you're website supposed to do? Usually I get responses back like "It's supposed to do something?" If you sit down and evaluate the purpose of a website and what it is supposed to do for your business/customer/whoever then content flows naturally from that. If your website is there to take up space, then that's exactly what it will do.

      It's almost funny how companies will spend so much time on effort brocures and literature, then not know what to do with a website. *hint* it's usually almost the same.

    5. Re:Content Content Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've also always thought that web development/design is a service industry that for a long time have overcharged for what they do.

      The small website development market happens to be dominated by self-employed freelancers. When you freelance, you find you have to charge stupidly high hourly rates (for what it is that you do), because your hourly rate has to subsidise the non-billable hours that you work.

      Like you pointed out, this includes chasing after the client a lot (a LOT) of the time, but it also includes things like doing your accounts, sorting out advertising, finding new clients, etc.

  13. Learn it online instead. by Sebastian+Jansson · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well that is neither legal nor moral. I'd recomend that they learn HTML and CSS online instead.

    Cost: none.

    1. Re:Learn it online instead. by cham31e0n · · Score: 1

      Actually, cost winds up being time and money, especially the latter if it's on the company dime. Mind you I took the time--I've been doing professional design, web and print, since 1997. (Don't let the 1337-speak name fool you. I have an admittedly acquired taste for irony.) But I've known many a client who wanted results now, if not yesterday. It took me years to hone my talent, to figure out the idiosyncracies of every browser and platform combination, etc. To me it was worth it, but not everybody wants to make that investment.

    2. Re:Learn it online instead. by Sebastian+Jansson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, for a basic website you only need to know like ten html tags(and some of then can be placed in a template) and some basic css.

      Sure you have spent lots of time on learning web design, but lot of that knowledge isn't important for a basic site, and a lot of it is probably useless if you do not develop for really old browsers without real css-support.

      Now, I haven't myself used the html tutorial, I learned mostly by viewing source code and by reading the w3c recomendation(I read it top-to-bottom, both html and css), but I don't think it would take long before you can make that basic page that looks decent. I don't think reading a book about it makes it go faster atleast.

      As mentioned in another post the biggest problem usually are the content, if you have that, the page is practically done...

    3. Re:Learn it online instead. by cham31e0n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, content is the second-hardest part. Dealing with clients is the worst. If you're your own client (designing a personal site, let's say), this is not a problem at all, unless you're a crazy perfectionist. I "retired" from professional design and only do work for myself and close friends. Apparently I have a low threshold for taking other people's crap, no matter how much they're paying.

      Technical problems place a distant third, and it would be even less of an issue if IE didn't exist. :-P

  14. I kinda hope so by game+kid · · Score: 1

    With an author as hot IMHO and obsessed with XHTML validity (just a few URI errors on the NYPL home page) as Bickner, I wouldn't mind. I like writing valid XHTML--the awareness to validation keeps me awake, if only a waste of time in the process. That said, I too prefer the GIMP over paying for anything like PS/Fireworks; it seems good enough and "cheap" enough to me. I can see the flood of e-mails to Bickner now, with Subject: GIMP...

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
    1. Re:I kinda hope so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HOT? Your hot and my hot are 2 diff things...meh

    2. Re:I kinda hope so by cham31e0n · · Score: 1

      To each their own. But I should probably point out that she's married, to another big name in web design, no less.

    3. Re:I kinda hope so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not everyone likes RMS-like studs.

  15. Hmm by Stick_Fig · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is it a good sign for the author that her page was showing a bunch of garbage when I loaded it?

    --
    ShortFormBlog: Writing a little. Saying a lot.
  16. Funny coincidence... by DudeAbides · · Score: 4, Informative

    that Carrie Bickner happens to be the wife of Jeffery Zeldman. It's also funny that NYPL happens to be his biggest client. For more examples of her writing, check out her articles on A List Apart

    --
    Is it being prepared to do the right thing, whatever the cost. Isn't that what makes a man? That and a pair of testicles
  17. I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by Harry+Balls · · Score: 4, Informative
    ...well worth the 400 bucks or so it costs.

    A big monitor helps.
    You basically see two views of your website:
    The HTML code and a "real world" view.
    You can make changes in both views and the other view will be updated accordingly.
    400 bucks sounds like a lot, but think of it in terms of time saved, not of money spent.

    Highly recommended.

    No, I'm not affiliated with Macromedia in any way - I just have a small web-based business and created the website myself.

    1. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      vi is all you will ever need.

    2. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you forgot to mention:

      * crappy (read: no) versioning system
      * cvs intergration is extra $$
      * frequent crashes (PC and Mac)

    3. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      wow $400 for a web browser and text editor, thats more than my computer cost me !!

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    4. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by Harry+Balls · · Score: 1
      As I said, in Dreamweaver you can edit in BOTH views, not merely in the HTML view.
      You cannot do that in a web browser.

      In many cases, your development cycle looks like this with Dreamweaver:
      Repeat until happy:
      Change "real world" view a little bit.

      And only occasionally:
      Change HTML a little bit and see how "real world view" looks like.

      When using "vi" or "notepad", your development cycle looks more like:
      Repeat until happy:
      Make a change in HTML
      Save the file (don't forget!)
      Hit "refresh" in the browser window
      Observe whether you like the new look.

    5. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I do pretty much the same thing, but I use Amaya. That gives me a WSYWYG window and, if needed, I can open another window and "view structure." I can edit in either, and see the changes in both. If I really need to enter codes by hand, I can open the source in a text editor, make the changes, save, then reload the page in Amaya. Nice, simple, easy to uses. And the best thing is, it's free from the W3C consortium.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    6. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by hyperstation · · Score: 1

      no thanks, i'd still rather type and think that point and drool.

    7. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by NardofDoom · · Score: 1
      I loathe dreamweaver, but I use it because it's Sites feature makes it easy to keep things synced across multiple servers and my local machine.

      If someone could make a sites application that, after you defined the locations to keep synced, would keep them that way, uploading automatically on a save, I would be very grateful. Editing code in Dreamweaver is torture.

      --
      You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
    8. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      what makes you think I use vi or notepad ?

      make change in html
      right click some text I have prepared such as http://test_site/a.html
      watch browser reload page, maybe even on a different machine, or, if I have set it up so I can watch this little parade :

      watch IE on my laptop reload the page, watch Mozilla on OpenBSD monitor two reload the page, watch it reload on my PDA while in it's cradle and look in my log window for any error logging, all with one click.

      If there are any errors I can right click on them and have the relevant source code open up at the line in question.

      In place editing of html elements, well, if it works for you, go for it. I'll spend $400 on something else.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    9. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by emptybody · · Score: 1

      If there are any errors I can right click on them and have the relevant source code open up at the line in question.

      OK, you got my curiosity :)
      What allows for this?
      I have tried running inside of a frame set to reload a given web page in my test browser windows.
      how are you accomplishing it?

      --
      comment directly in my journal
    10. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by SamSim · · Score: 1

      Where is this website? Tip: +5 comments gets many views. Relevant links in +5 comments get many hits. You shot yourself in the foot by not providing a link, man.

    11. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      I use plan9, the feature is provided by the plumber

      some of plan9 features, the plumber being one of them, are now available in Russ Cox's excellent plan9port project

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    12. Re:I use Dreamweaver 2004 which is... by anand_iitd · · Score: 1

      Dreamweaver cannot be a substitute for good design. Lots of horrible websites (as well as good ones) get created in Dreamweaver. Great usability and looks need time and effort investment from a web designer as well as developer. It can't come (dirt) cheap. Learning from some good designs also helps: e.g. Google. Simple yet nice, usable and fast.

      --
      "I'd be a bum on the street corner with a tin cup if the market were truly efficient." - Warren Buffett
  18. Talk about a coincidence.. by XorNand · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm a technology generalist who pays my bills by providing services on a contractual basis to small bizs. Occasionaly this entails web design.

    Talk about a coincidence... I clicked over to /. while I was waiting for my order at templatemonster.com to process. I was vaugly aware of the sites like this, but never really looked at the templates until yesterday. They offer full, very professional website templates for download for only around $60(!). I'll never design a website for a client from scratch again.



    (Disclaimer: The URL above includes my affliate ID, but isn't my reason for posting.)
    --
    Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    1. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disclaimer: The URL above includes my affliate ID, but isn't my reason for posting.

      Then why didn't you remove it?

    2. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by Quixote · · Score: 3, Funny
      (Disclaimer: The URL above includes my affliate ID, but isn't my reason for posting.)

      Then why include it? It would have taken less time to edit it out, than to add the disclaimer.

    3. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by JimDabell · · Score: 1

      Talk about a coincidence... I clicked over to /. while I was waiting for my order at templatemonster.com to process. I was vaugly aware of the sites like this, but never really looked at the templates until yesterday. They offer full, very professional website templates

      I just had a look at their code. Their website isn't even valid. They use proprietary element types and attributes, they miss off important accessibility hints like alt attributes, they include a number of mistakes in their CSS that only Internet Explorer ignoring the CSS specification would ever do anything with, and so on.

      It might be acceptable for a beginner who is playing around with a website for a hobby, but I couldn't describe it as professional when they make so many beginner errors.

    4. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by XorNand · · Score: 1

      Well, can't comment on the the validity of the site itself, but why does it matter? You're not buying *that* site. They just act as a broker for templates created by independent designers. The templates themselves are just sliced up Photoshop files embedded in HTML tables, nothing special about it. Some of them use CSS, but most do not.

      As I mentioned in my OP, I just bought one a half-hour ago. Looks kosher to me in both IE and Firefox. I'm working on customizing it in Photoshop as I write this.

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    5. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by JimDabell · · Score: 1

      Well, can't comment on the the validity of the site itself, but why does it matter? You're not buying *that* site.

      Because if they can't even get their own website right, how can they be qualified to judge the quality of the templates they broker?

      Some of them use CSS, but most do not.

      This isn't the mid 90s. I'd certainly expect anything called "professional" to use CSS.

      Looks kosher to me in both IE and Firefox.

      That's about 1% of the configurations a professional should test in. Firefox with larger than normal fonts? Internet Explorer with smaller than normal fonts? Mozilla with Javascript switched off? Omniweb? Safari? Opera? Internet Explorer on the Mac has a completely different rendering engine to Internet Explorer on Windows. Internet Explorer on Windows renders things differently depending on what "mode" it's in. How do you know search engines can understand it? Does it comply with accessibility legislation?

      That's the tip of the iceberg. Loading it up in two different browsers and saying "works for me" isn't professional. Like I said, it might be acceptable for a hobby website, but that's it.

    6. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems to be a ton of sites like this. Poked around Google and found a few decent ones:

      http://www.4templates.com
      http://www.boxedart.c om
      http://www.designgalaxy.net .. and shitloads more. What's the deal?

    7. Re:Talk about a coincidence.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a former professional graphic designer, I'm appalled that sites like templatemonster are still in business. While I understand that small businesses often can't afford the full identity treatment they'd like, reducing the creative process to "gee, which bevel-barred monstrosity do I like best?" is a serious detriment to the real work that designers do; it's the single reason I left web to work exclusively in print. Common availability of pro-grade image and html manipulation software does mean that anyone can create a website, but we're still learning the same lesson in web design that MS Publisher and Comic Sans taught us about print: not everyone should.

  19. CMS by papasui · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Once again people fail to understand that timespent equates to lost money lost in some way or other. The big advantage with CMS's is that all the basic functionality is already there for you to access. I can easily create a custom CMS for my own use, but I choose to use Mambo because it less work to harness something that already works and been tested. Unless you plan to build a better wheel, why bother? (Except for the love of doing it)

    1. Re:CMS by bruddah · · Score: 1

      For tips on church websites, go here: Heal Your Church Web Site "Teaching, rebuking, correcting & training in righteous web design".

    2. Re:CMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A good intermediate thing is to write the bare content with appropriate tags as a bunch of html files files (add the gifs/jpgs in as well), using relative paths for the local content. Then write a wrapper that goes through the webtree and wraps .css and tables and stuff around those html files. Works well for barebones brochure sites.


      Needs moderate geekiness, but once you have the wrapper script done first time, it is pretty tweakable and reusable for other stuff. I just did it with ecind.com - comments welcome btw.


      This site cost a total of about 20 USD a year, including the domain, with cpanel vhosting.

  20. Not a criticism, but.. by Visceral+Monkey · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't this make you more of a Web Facilitator rather than a Web Designer? I have nothing against it, but I was wondering about this as well in relation to clients, etc. I guess the ultimate goal is to provide our clients with what they want, no matter what the means.

    --
    *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
    1. Re:Not a criticism, but.. by XorNand · · Score: 1

      Eh, yeah, I know what you're saying... I kinda feel a bit weird about it. But I just spent three weeks designing a (small-ish) site from scratch. Clients never trully understand the amount of work that goes into creating a truly professional site. (Thank God for Change Orders though) They want it on the cheap AND to look sharp. If I can use templates to offer them a bit of both, and they're happy, then we both win.

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    2. Re:Not a criticism, but.. by Visceral+Monkey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes. I was looking at http://oswd.org/ last night and saw some interesting templates for use with a current client. I also feel weird about it. But time is money and if I can meet both our goals in a fast manner, everyone wins. Not to mention, it's not like I would use the site exactly as is.

      --
      *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
    3. Re:Not a criticism, but.. by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 0

      Every web designer that i have seen just regurgitates stuff that they are familiar with or have done before.

      --
      Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

      http://financialpetition.org/
  21. three short words by madaxe42 · · Score: 3, Funny

    vim, google, gimp

    1. Re:three short words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gFTP or Filezilla may help, too. :) While I'm being pedantic, might as well suggest Firefox.

      To be more honest:
      Linux, GIMP, Quanta, gFTP, Firefox, imagemagick, kuickshow for getting through CD's worth of pictures.

      Reference materials from webmonkey, w3c, alistapart, and anything you can google for.

    2. Re:three short words by miskate · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but given that this book is clearly written on a Mac, she's perfectly right to ignore Gimp. Cross-platform my arse.

      When I got my Mac I installed it thinking "great - I can't afford Photoshop and I'd rather not pirate things".

      While I have no complaints about Gimp's functionality (well, except for its lack of a healing brush but that I can live without), on the Mac it is simply really really unusable.

      So unusable in fact that I actually find it less frustrating to get out my un-networked PC laptop to use photoshop when I need to do non-trivial image editing, using a flash drive to get the images to and from the Mac.

      While you *can* run Linux applications through X11, once you've got the flow of the Mac interface then it just amplifies all the little usability niggles already in those apps and piles on a bunch of others.

      This makes it all an unpleasant experience, and that's not why one buys Apples.

    3. Re:three short words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of those and a bit more. I also use emacs for editing and ttree for site generation. Sites, not webapps, I use Ruby on Rails for that or Mambo for generic CMS. I have my own colo boxes these days, so hosting this is not a problem..

      Also, I use Inkscape for creating SVGs of the logos I usually receive in low-res jpeg or gif format. I then render new logos from that (straight from Inkscape) and do further image work in Gimp (which rocks). Nice thing about SVGs is that you can import them into Blender and do funky 3D stuff with them.

      Oh, and everything works in Firefox, Opera and IE.

      I can crank out hot websites like there's no tomorrow (and do :). It's something I do to supplement my income and sometimes as a favour.

      Reading a book like this is pointless. Really, learn to code, learn W3.org standards and spend a year mucking about putting it all together (yes, these things take time). If you're putting together your first sites - be conservative. Don't do flash, javascript, animated gifs or any of that. But do use CSS from the word go. Install the Firefox extension Webdeveloper. Create a template library. Have a supply of clipart lying around (www.openclipart.org or something is a good start). Don't rip off other people's sites (too obviously - everyone borrows ideas, but copying HTML is Bad Form(tm)).

    4. Re:three short words by ChrisPee · · Score: 1

      More like: notepad, mspaint, ftp

  22. Yeah if you are a housewife that is bored by hsmith · · Score: 1

    Please, if I am looking at a company website and it looks like complete crap, it gives me a horrible impression. A well designed easy to navigate site catches people and makes them stay and spend money. Something that is boring will lose peoples interest as well as something that is difficult to navigate (2advanced site comes to mind).

    The web is one of your defacto ad tools. To ignore it with a $200 site is just stupid.

    1. Re:Yeah if you are a housewife that is bored by DaveJay · · Score: 1

      >Something that is boring will lose peoples interest as well as something that is difficult to navigate

      Ah, but if something is easy to navigate and simple (yet attractive), boring doesn't enter into it. Web sites don't have to "do" anything except be appealing on the eyes and easy to use, so that users can find what they need without thinking about it.

      Consider that Warren Buffet site. If style sheets were used to make to tweak the font, colors and layout into something attractive (but boring), it could present a very professional image, and do so for very little money.

      Of course, it would help if they got rid of those ads at the bottom as well. What's up with that?

  23. On a shoestring? by Inkieminstrel · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't know about you, but I design on a computer.

  24. Re:Easy (Pirated Sites) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "Pirated Sites" website makes no mention of the possibility that they website were created from templates seperately purchased by different organizations. So they could be "pirated" or they could be legit. That's what happens when you use a template, after all.

    Other than that, this a conversation by "coders" for "coders". In the art world, it's done all the time. That's where the phrase "Good artists copy, great artists steal" came from.

    Anytime you put something out in the world, you have to expect that someone is going to take it and use it. That's life. It's only packs of ravenous lawyers that have created this "It's mine and no one can have it" attitude.

    How do artists "compete" then? We out-innovate the competition. By the time we put something out in the world, we are already working on something cooler, and don't really give a shit about what we did in past.

    If you don't believe it, find some artists and ask them. Then ask their lawyers, and you'll find out that they are the ones who created this environment, and the ones who really profit off of it.

  25. The big advantages of books by Infonaut · · Score: 4, Informative
    For me the biggest advantage is that books eliminate annoyances.

    I can have the book out next to me (and if it's perfect-bound like O'Reilly's books, they'll generally flat when opened) and I don't have to devote screen space to a website. I often find that even when referring to ALA or other sites, I'll print out the article and keep the hard copy next to my keyboard, so that my screen doesn't get too cluttered.

    For some people, keeping a bunch of windows open and cycling through them is easy, but I find that a bit overwhelming and certainly distracting. Also, reading dense information on screen for a protracted period of time is simply more difficult.

    Books provide easily accessed information that I can read anywhere (on the bus, in the waiting room at the dentist's office, and so on), whether I'm online or not. I find this particularly important because there are times when I want to *not* be jacked in, but I still want to absorb information having to do with development.

    The great thing about the profusion of websites and books is that they offer choice. Get what you need for this project from a website, and get what you need for the next project from a book. Whatever works is good.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    1. Re:The big advantages of books by Darthmalt · · Score: 1

      Use a double monitor setup assuming you have the desk space. I love it, I can write a paper on one look up info on the other. Or I can play a game/watch a movie on one and have messenger running on the other.

    2. Re:The big advantages of books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux allows virtual desktops which allow one to act as if they have multiple monitors, while using only one monitor.

  26. buy? by funny-jack · · Score: 1

    Step one to creating a cheap web site is to to not buy useless web books.

    Who says you buy them? Why not check them out from the library? Surely even the author of this book would recommend that. *wink*

    --
    You probably shouldn't click this.
    1. Re:buy? by Visceral+Monkey · · Score: 1

      What is this "library" thing you speak of?

      --
      *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
    2. Re:buy? by uberdave · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's sort of a hardware version of a filesystem.

  27. Save $400. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    You basically see two views of your website: The HTML code and a "real world" view. You can make changes in both views and the other view will be updated accordingly.

    Why not go the even cheaper route?

    • Open HTML code in one window.
    • Open web browser in other window.
    • While changes are to be made:
      • Change HTML code.
      • Click "refresh" in browser.
    • Enjoy website.

    Saves you $400...

    1. Re:Save $400. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or a more convenient Mozilla Composer or nvu. I've found Moz Composer to be too limited and never tried nvu but if you're going to go that route, it's worth a shot.

      I've tried both quanta and screem (earlier versions) and both seem pretty cool for what's needed. Not exactly dreamweaver but it gets the job done.

  28. Re:In my opinion -cowboy neil for president by scovetta · · Score: 1
    --
    Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
  29. My own steps forweb design on a shoestring budget. by Linuxathome · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My steps for web design/web server on shoestring budget (steps 4 and 5 are for those who just want a design).

    1. Learn linux enough to manage a server--all the docs and how-to's you ever need are on the web, don't buy books (unless you want a standalone easy quick reference).
    2. Buy a domain name from godaddy.com.
    3. Get a VPS plan from rimuhosting.com or the multitude of other VPS providers. I prefer to have Debian installed in the VPS because it's minimal in disk space usage and packages can easily be installed with apt-get (i.e. you have have to muck around to try to find rpm's or tar.gz files)--you'll need to apt-get apache to get the webserver up. You'll also need to install a content management engine like wordpress, moveabletype, drupal, geekblog, etc.
    4. With the money you saved by NOT buying books on how to design, purchase a web logo from The Logo Company or any comparable business that supplies you the logo for your site. They include full ownership of your logo (to file for trademark if you want) and all the vector graphics files you need to take it from there and build your own templates, CSS, etc. This is the most important part of the "design" process because you will use your logo to assemble your website -- it has the color palette that you want and the overall theme that will be persistent in your site.
    5. Using the logo as "inspiration", create the CSS for the content management engine such as wordpress, moveabletype, geekblog, drupal, etc. Drop the CSS into your server.

    Obviously, there are lots of in between steps I didn't care to mention, but the main steps are listed. Overall, for the startup cost and the first month of your web page going live, you shouldn't need to spend more than $105 USD ($75 for the logo, $20 per month for the VPS, $10 for a year's worth of domain name service) -- the price of 3 or 4 books.

  30. Maybe by uberdave · · Score: 1

    Maybe because the Director for Digital Information and System Design was so busy that she needed an assistant?

  31. Orthagonal Skills Needed by Java+Ape · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I've done a fair bit of web-coding, and I think the "magic" recipe is to have multiple people do the work.

    Content is king - So let the advertising staff, tech writers, or even a manager (who can usually write better than we give them credit for) lay out the text. Besides, if you write it, they'll just re-write it into a hash by the end of the project anyway.

    Presentation is Queen - Speaking from experience, most of us overestimate our artistic abilities. Fonts, colors, whitespace, branding etc. are both a science and an art. I have seen first-hand the difference a good graphics artist can make. For a few hours of consultation, you can get more good ideas that most of us will come up with in a year of fiddling around.

    The Joker is in the Details A good nerd is the magic glue that makes it all happen. Sombody has to know the standards, be able to code, and make the decisions about which technologies to use. Some sites just require basic HTML and maybe a bit of CSS, but most modern sites require a whole lot more.

    The point is that very few people can combine all of these skills at a professional level. The skills are orthagonal - being good at one implies nothing (or very little) about your abilities in the others. Ego aside, most of us would get far better results if we were humble enough to ask for help -- a brief survey of web sites should convince ANYONE that really good designes are few and far between (and no, slashdot is NOT a shining beacon of perfection).

  32. My IT folks need this by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1
    I wish my company would do something like this. They have so obfuscated the process of putting a page on our Intranet, that no one ever bothers to update pages, rendering it useless. I've been doing web sites since the first copies of Tim Berners-Lee's HTML 1.0 document were passing around the Net, and I can't make heads or tails of the process here.

    You need to create a file in a murky proprietary format, submit that file to some sort of parser and review process, and that gets transmogrified to tag-soup, table-laden HTML illuminated with all manner of popup menus and navigational horrors. Saying "CSS" around here gets blank looks. It's like designing web pages from a command line.

    1. Re:My IT folks need this by MooseGuy529 · · Score: 1
      It's like designing web pages from a command line.

      I design web pages from a command line, you insensitive clod!

      In fact, I'm working on a web page for my robotics team (that's not the new site yet; you can see that here if my computer is on--take a look!), and I use vim to write it. A Perl script plugs the content into Template Toolkit, and it's formatted with CSS.

      Designing pages with a GUI is horrible; designing them by hand with an editor that simply provides extra efficiency typing tags and inserting common sets of tags and attributes is good.

      --

      Tired of free iPod sigs? Subscribe to my blacklist

    2. Re:My IT folks need this by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Oh, I use BBEdit on Mac OS X for my own stuff. I tried GoLive and some other thing. Bleah...

  33. Well, I don't know about New York... by Traegorn · · Score: 0

    ...but the Milwaukee County Library system has had their card catalog in electronic form since the mid-nineties. From a terminal (many of which are still the nostalgic green screens) you can search for a book, see whether or not it's in the library you're in, and get it transfered across town from another library. You can also access it online from home so you can have a book reserved and held for you.

    Someone had to put together that system, and someone has to maintain it.

  34. Only if the content is visible first by CaptainEcchi · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, the content matters little if the color scheme is so dreadful that the user has to highlight the text or open the source HTML to read said content.

    ... you think I'm joking, but making your teeny-tiny-point font match your background color seems to be popular in certain web circles. I have found this correlates highly with the "2 inch by 2 inch iframe" and "I'm 1337 with my warez copy of Dreamweaver" school of web design.

    My point is that you're assuming a minimum level of usability to the color scheme to begin with, and I think that that's a dangerous assumption.

  35. Open Source Web Design by Deacon+Jones · · Score: 2, Informative
    As someone who can appreciate, but for some reason finds it really challenging to create visually pleasing layouts, I find OSWD a real life saver.

    All most ask is if you use their design, let 'em know.

    --
    I pulled a jack move to cop this sig
    1. Re:Open Source Web Design by rainman_bc · · Score: 1

      The irony is that the featured templates on http://www.oswd.org are the exact same as the featured templates on http://www.templatemonster.com/

      lol speaking of copying sites... At first I thought "well maybe that these sites were submitted by the same user to multiple sites". Then I thought " What are the odds that the featured templates appear the same on both sites?"

      Do I smell a conspiracy, or do I have my ass hat on?

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Open Source Web Design by Monkeyman334 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your ass hat is on too tight, it's restricting blood flow to your brain =P The premium templates are in fact, resold through templatemonter.com. See our tesitmonial on templatemonster. The premium designs section takes care of hosting costs, and actually helps people when they can't find the right free design.

      What you skipped over is the 1001 FREE templates. Totally free public domain templates. The entire front page is dedicated to the free designs. The Browse, Search, Design Or Not, etc. are all free designs. The free section is our main project goal.

  36. Resume fodder... by BookRead · · Score: 1

    You've obviously never worked in a library. Job title inflation, especially when attached to IT stuff, is rampant. Librarians are still pissed they couldn't control the Web. Since they can't make much money, they settle for fancy titles to make themselves feel more proficient.

  37. Open Source Web Design by ecliptik · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a similiar site like this called Open Source Web Design which gives away basic HTML and CSS template. They have a strict rule of no images (which I'm fine with) and even require all designs be W3C X/HTML/CSS validated.

    With these requirements they're usually pretty light and basic, you can find some good designs to start you off with

  38. Oh good! by DaveJay · · Score: 1

    Oh good! Someone finally wrote a book about something I already know. Heh.

    Seriously, though, both of my siblings are librarians, and when I do web design single-handedly I always get complements on how straightforward and useable -- yet attractive -- my web sites are. It truly is wonderful how quickly you can publish a useful and attractive site for very little money if you keep your priorities straight.

  39. spendy by bodrell · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Although Bickner is apt to invoke "we Web professionals," this book is not really appropriate to Web creatives-for-hire (who would be better advised to seek out clients with the wherewithal to ask for something original, cool, and spendy).
    The second I read the word "spendy," I was betting this reviewer was from Oregon. And yep, he's from the Portland area.
    --
    Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
  40. The Aptly Named GIMP by podperson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm getting tired of Open Source folk proclaiming GIMP as being a useful substitute for Photoshop.

    The GIMP is just too clunky to do good work with, as evinced by its ugly logo and sample documents. About the most creative thing anyone does with it is more-or-less trivial photo retouching that can be done in something like iPhoto or Elements.

    And if you think that Elements has "80%" of Photoshop's functionality, you haven't used 90% of Photoshop's functionality.

    1. Re:The Aptly Named GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm getting tired of Open Source folk proclaiming GIMP as being a useful substitute for Photoshop.

      What a coincidence, I'm tired of incompetent graphics artists who rely totally on Photoshop defaults and don't understand the underlying theory of image manipulation to grok the exact same process in a different wrapping.

      The GIMP is just too clunky to do good work with

      You obviously don't know how to use powerful programmable tools. Gimp has things like script-fu, which make it kick Photoshops ass. For general image manipulation it's just like Photoshop, PSP, etc.

      Our in-house (web) image building, processing chain is gimp + imagemagick. All the boring stuff is automated.

      Gimp kicks ass. People who moan about it not being Photoshop are amateurs. Yes, there are areas Photoshop is better in - but these tend to be highly specialized and web design is not one of those areas .

    2. Re:The Aptly Named GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm getting tired of Open Source folk proclaiming GIMP as being a useful substitute for Photoshop.

      It is a useful substitute. Perhaps not for professional print designers, but certainly for professional web designers. If you don't like that... well tough.

    3. Re:The Aptly Named GIMP by ThousandStars · · Score: 1
      In addition, there are no GIMP binaries for OS X, or at least none that I could (easily) find. My time is sufficiently valuable and my needs sufficiently limited that it's easier for me to buy Photoshop Elements than download and compile a program that's hard to use and unattractive on a Mac anyway.

      I like the idea of GIMP, but its execution (and name, too) leave much to be desired.

  41. Project management by Manhog · · Score: 1

    For me, the most useful thing to take away from this book is not necessarily the blah about web standards coding techniques (there are better resources for that), but the techniques for planning a website, such as listing out in plain language what you want the website to do.

    I provide advice to small businesses about websites, and its rare to find one that has even has a basic requirements list, never mind a structured, budgeted website development plan that is regularly reviewed and updated by management.

    Most small businesses regard their websites as either a tacked on extra, or as something for the in-house geek to deal with.

    Most of them don't need a website. They'd be better off with listings in business directories such as Kellysearch and Yell.com.

    Those that have a real need for a website should be using a cheap, web-based content management system that spits out standards compliant code, not training in Dreamweaver, Frontpage (gah!), Contribute, et al.

    Textpattern hacked to include a WYSIWYG editor would fit the bill nicely. Implement that with 12 months support for £1000 and you've got clients.

    --
    All out of bubblegum...
  42. Wow! I saw a color TV! by fm6 · · Score: 1
    A good color scheme is nice, but how does it become "the most important thing"? What about actual content? Ease of use? Good organization? These all deserve more attention than your color scheme.

    Heard of Google? They managed to attract one or two users wihout any color scheme at all.

    It's almost offtopic, but I can't resist mentioning Bruce Lawson's supremely ugly CSS skin, Geocities 1996. Unfortunately, Firefox is unable to manage the more epilepsy-inducing effects. Soo much for browser independence!

    1. Re:Wow! I saw a color TV! by Ithika · · Score: 1
      Well, I think that's going a bit far, but if you're designing a web page I think you need to make a basic assumption, that is: there is a reason for it. If there's no need - and thus no content - you should stop right there.

      If, on the other hand, you do have a reason to make your presence known online then colour scheme is important. As the Geocities-ified Zen Garden link shows, if you don't pay attention to content the most useful information in the world will go unheard.

      (I only have Firefox installed do you mean to say that there's more obscenities on the Geocities CSS skin than I can currently render? Please do tell! :)

    2. Re:Wow! I saw a color TV! by fm6 · · Score: 1

      I don't deny that a good color scheme can do a lot for a web site. But it's hardly an absolute necessity, much less "the most important thing".

    3. Re:Wow! I saw a color TV! by The-Bus · · Score: 1

      I wanted to do that as well and call it the "1995" skin. Instead I just did this: FD1995. I think most good web page design is a mix between knowledge of organization / spacing / interface, good coding, good visual design. Most people are good at one, if any.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    4. Re:Wow! I saw a color TV! by Storlek · · Score: 1

      That design is nothing compared to this.

      --
      Bears don't normally eat things that talk and move backwards.
    5. Re:Wow! I saw a color TV! by fm6 · · Score: 1

      You can see even worse things here.

  43. Library by pjt33 · · Score: 1

    Buy? Surely everyone's planning to get it out from the library...

  44. Dual Screens by jcdenhartog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dual screens are nearly indispensible for web design. If you want to keep a web tutorial open on one screen, and your code/web site on the other, dual screens are the way to go. It's also great for coding on one screen and previewing in the other. Just a warning... once you go there, you will never want to go back to a puny single screen of desktop real estate.

    --
    "The majority is always wrong; the minority is rarely right." - Henrik Ibsen
    1. Re:Dual Screens by drxray · · Score: 1

      Except, I think web designers forget that us mere mortals have just the one screen. Many sites look terrible if you're reading them in a fairly small window, because you're e.g. using an instant messenger or watching a video at the same time. A good web designer will check a site works in 640x480, a great one will check 1150x250.
      And no sound! Can't you tell I'm listening to an MP3 here?

      --
      Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
  45. mind you, how can you take the advice... by acroyear · · Score: 1

    ...of a web designer who can't even keep their own home page from being full of easily fixed 404 errors.

    (hint: they're all supposed to be in a photo/ subdirectory but someone forgot to do that update when the files got moved...which wouldn't have happened anyways if they'd used relative hrefs in the first place...)

    --
    "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
    -- Joe
  46. CMS by pjt33 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Quoth the reviewer:
    "Content Management on a Tight Budget," left me wondering, though, whether the book's audience had morphed. Yes, Content-Management Systems (CMS) have benefits, especially for concurrent authoring and version control, but I don't see individuals putting together Web sites on a shoestring budget worrying such issues.
    I'm currently putting together a shoestring website for my parents' church, which sounds like the profile you mentioned at the top of the review. The first thing I did was to look at the current site, which someone put together in Frontpage, and make notes on what needed to be done. Then I went and researched CMSs. I settled on Typo3. Why use a CMS? I may be putting in a small amount of time to admin it once it's set up - although ideally I won't need to, because I'm simply not going to be available much - but keeping it up-to-date will be done by a number of people: the youth leaders will update the youth section, etc. None of them know any HTML, so using a CMS is by far the easiest way to get a consistent look-and-feel. Moreover, Typo3 allows me to create users who have control over different sections of the content.
  47. Dammit. by game+kid · · Score: 1

    As usual, I'm left alone, with even the valid-XHTML-typing semi-nerdy* women taken. sigh...but I'll still type mine validly in her honor.

    *said knowing I am far nerdier.

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  48. I tend to agree by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Web sites with massive budgets often tend to spend those budgets on areas that have nothing to do with content, which is, after all, what most of us really want from the Web (if we wanted a lot of useless graphics we'd go see a movie.) Expensive, gratuitous flash animations and the rest of that crap can easily detract from the true value of a Web site, or at least can obscure that value to the point where no-one can find it.

    Many companies could take a lesson from Google and its minimalist approach to screen design (Yahoo, for example.) A cleanly-designed, truly elegant Web site is a joy to behold and to use. The mistake that many designers make is in equating complexity with elegance. In the old days, we said that ridiculously colorful and complicated displays (whose only goal was to prove that the programmer knew how to do complicated things) were victims of the "Christmas Tree Effect". I must say, the mindset behind the CTE is alive and well, and living on the Web.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:I tend to agree by sexygirl.jpg.vbs · · Score: 1
      Many companies could take a lesson from Google and its minimalist approach to screen design (Yahoo, for example.)

      http://search.yahoo.com/ - Yahoo's trying.

  49. This is what we've been doing for years by scronline · · Score: 0

    If you look at our website, you'll see lack of clutter. Imagine that! We've never believed that clutter will get people to your content. All the designs we've done have been clutterless. Granted some of them from way back in the day look rather....childish and I'm not exactly happy to have our names on them now since the client refuses to update, and things changed when I took over the company.

    But alas, I've always wondered where having a busy site actually became what was "cool".

  50. Web design on a shoestring budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    Web design on a shoestring budget:
    • Use the GIMP for image processing. Cost $0.00
    • Go over to the CSS discuss Wiki to get lots of great example CSS, freely reusuable. Cost still $0.00
    • Make sure your site looks acceptable with Internet Explorer's awful CSS. Cost: $0.00 if you have a friend with Windows, or go to the local library to look at the site. Otherwise $Bill_gates_tax
    • Viola. You have a great looking site.
    CSS has made it possible to quickly and easily make a great-looking web site. Compare this to the old days when it would take days to figure out what table hacks looked right in Netscape, and hope that not too many blind people or Lynx users try to look at your site.

    (Actually, I still use tables for basic layout because IE doesn't support max-width and min-width for CSS elements sizes; this can be somewhat hacked around with <td width=whatever>.)

  51. Bottom-up approach to save time and money by Regnard · · Score: 1

    I've recently been applying a methodology which has been getting popular lately: totally separating content & markup from presentation. What this implies is that you structure the content & information architecture BEFORE doing the aesthetics & visuals.

    In my opinion, this approach presents a maturing of the the web development process. As a designer/developer, you are more focused on having a solid plan and laying the groundwork as opposed to making placeholders for content. This would a huge amount of time since it lessens the "figuring out" phase in deciding how to layout the site.

    --
    Need a color? Try 100 random colors
    1. Re:Bottom-up approach to save time and money by soundproofing.noise · · Score: 0

      It depends what you have up your bottom, but applying a methodology to it may not help if you have bad infromation.

      P.S. your site has one of those XHTML 1.0 compliant buttons but it fails.

    2. Re:Bottom-up approach to save time and money by soundproofing.noise · · Score: 0

      OOPs sorry that was a fraudian slip brought about by reading someones poor spelling.

      I meant inflamation. soory but my constant seated position infront of a glaring VDU writing banking web sites has given me piles

    3. Re:Bottom-up approach to save time and money by Regnard · · Score: 1

      Thanks for pointing it out. :)

      As for the actual content/copy of the site, that's where the designer's job ends and the copywriter/editor's job begins.

      --
      Need a color? Try 100 random colors
  52. You sued google? by khromatikos · · Score: 0

    "even the text word for word"

    Are you sure it wasn't just google's cached version of your webpage?

  53. webdesign on a shoestring budget? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh - Your talking to an expert! I started my off-line business 2/half years ago. I decided I needed a web site but eeeK! The Cost! 2/half years later I now design websites, basic, clean, simple one's as described in xhtml/css and I started while living on social benefits! Don't think you can get anymore shoestring than that!

    A lot of that time has been a learning curve and since I totally dumped html 4.0/4.01 for xhtml I haven't looked back.
    In fact I think I just may have landed a job with a new file sharing software tonight so I'm on a buzz...(check out 'Grouper' - well worth it!)

    And the article is right, it can be done - I do it almost daily still.

  54. NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They must've ported it to shoestrings by now...

  55. virtual desktops by Infonaut · · Score: 1
    Linux allows virtual desktops

    Yes, I'm quite familiar with virtual desktops. While handy, they still present the necessity for "shifting" which is the very element that I find distracting in using a reference for an extended period of time while working on a project.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  56. what kind of asshole avoids white? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

  57. Web Design on a Shoestring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With overall budget, did they include the cost of the book?

  58. ColorMixers by Dr.Opveter · · Score: 2, Informative

    I like this javascript color mixer ColorMixers

    You can browse some of the presets or make your own set of colors, quite useful.

    --
    Sample this!
    1. Re:ColorMixers by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      Hey thanks a lot! This has to be one of the best utilities I have ever seen for the graphically challenged. My co-worker saw me working on this and she knocked me aside to copy the URL :)

      Again thanks!!!

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
  59. Re:My own steps forweb design on a shoestring budg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Again, only a 'shoestring' budget if your time is worth nothing to you at all.

  60. Bershire Hathaway by reed · · Score: 1


    I love the Berkshire Hathaway site. Take it as some advice from some people who know how to make a lot of money with a minimum of waste. Looks like someone's nephew put it together in a few hours circa 1996, and it's one of the most easy-to-use and clean sites I've seen in months. No need to impress anyone with slick graphics there :)

  61. Re:a librarian writing book on simple webdesign? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

    mod me negative all day long I have karma to burn

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  62. I never realized that so much went into a website! by DigiMan · · Score: 1

    I'm so glad that this book was written... After years of creating websites, I now see how hard it is and how much must go into them!

    And here I thought it was only a text file accessable by a little file reading program we call a web server... Silly me!!!

    Seriously though, making web sites is free - making them good is an art - getting people on them is hard work... I skimmed though this book at borders the other day and had to laugh... I guess we're going to see a lot more junk one line sites after the gen. public see's $$$ in their eyes... doesn't poor Google have enough garbage to already parse? We need to conserve Google hard drive space for Slash Dot articles ;) - not shoestring web sites!

  63. If you have to ask, you can't afford it by tepples · · Score: 1

    Present some product but fail to mention what it costs

    A lot of sites that sell expensive products do this. The site often states that the user is expected to send an e-mail to sales@example.com to find out that the product costs 100 times what the user was willing to pay.

    1. Re:If you have to ask, you can't afford it by Eivind · · Score: 1

      I know. There are some cases where leaving the price out is a deliberate action. However in those cases, like you say, they'll typically atleast provide information about how to learn the price.

  64. Dual head is too expensive by tepples · · Score: 1

    Use a double monitor setup assuming you have the desk space.

    And flip how many burgers to afford a second video card and a second monitor? And what about Mac mini owners, who cannot add to or replace the machine's onboard video? Is there a good USB 2, FireWire, or Ethernet video card?

    1. Re:Dual head is too expensive by Darthmalt · · Score: 1

      17in. arent much at all look hard enough and you can probably get an older one for next to nothing I did. and just use a second video card mine is an old 2mb ATI.

      Macs I know nothing about. if you have a usb TV out you might be able to use that as one i've done it before with an internal ATI before.

  65. Boy I hope this works by Deekin_Scalesinger · · Score: 1

    Getting Y100 back, that is...hey, HFS rose from the grave...

    --
    "As the intrepid kobold companion continues his journey, he begins to wonder... if priests raises dead, why anybody die?