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Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation
CasterPod writes "As of February 28, Windows users who purchased their PC will no longer be able to reinstall without calling Microsoft and answering a series of questions. The move is part of an anti-piracy effort to close 'a loophole that enabled unscrupulous resellers to use Windows XP product keys that were stolen from large OEMs.' Specifically, Certificate of Authenticity (COA) labels on PCs are often unused because OEMs preinstall Windows and bypass product activation. The product keys can therefore be stolen and reused. First WGA, and now this."
Now you will be forcing more people to move over to Linux and Mac computers!!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Right when I am peeved that I had to re-install, I have to get back on the phone with M$. Enough is enough - has their 'activation' programs really impacted priacy at all? Has it done anything beyond bother paying users?
*This* is the reason we don't want monopolies abusing their power/position - they can impose whatever onerous conditions they like, and you just have to play along.
Whaddya gonna do - install *another* OS???
OK, oscar
Just means you will have to use a corp key which does not require activation. I know as a support tech I would never sit through a freaking queue every time I had to reactivate windows.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Microsoft was dumb enough to put the product activation code on the outside of the damn PC. Anyone can walk into a store, take a pic of the code on a new PC (since they are bulk activated) and get free Windows.
This can only be good for free software however. Part of the Windows dominance comes from the fact that it is free for those who want it.
More
I'm just waiting for the customer to ring up and say they don't have the original media. The last 3 PC's i know people have bought just come with a copy of Windows on a partition. If you run Fdisk then they are screwed
rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
right now, it was easier to spread corporate (or educational) keys. Many of these don't require activation at all. Once MS disables this, crackers will resort to patching the activation code. .. It's just a matter of time, like the XBox was cracked eventually.
On the other hand : this will just make the difference between Windows and OSX/linux even more apparent. Every user-restricting move of microsoft is, in the long run, a shot in its own foot
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
I am just going though some training and one of the hot points is understanding your customer. Making something more difficult for customers (home users and companies that do tech work) is not one of the moves known to improve market share and is in most industries considered a bad move.
Evolution or ID?
Because the last few times I've reinstalled Windows, it's been around 12am.
Microsoft depends on the ubiquity of Windows (and Office, Outlook, et al). When everybody is using Microsoft products, everybody needs Microsoft. Their proprietary formats are a de facto standard (except Massachusetts), so if you want to do business with people who use Windows (et al), you have little choice but to also use windows.
As their piracy initiative starts to pick up steam, this will only enhance the "value" of free (or at least lesser cost) alternatives. I predict a large swell of Linux usage-- on the desktop, in these emerging markets, or other areas where the hight cost of Windows (et al) simply locks people out. With that will come a groudswell of support for open formats.
Consider what you need if you are going to do business with the government of Hamburg. You will need to provide and exchange documents and other material in a format they can read (it won't simply be Word and PowerPoint). Now the same thing will happen in these emerging markets, creating more of an interest in these alternative formats, and thus alternative applications (e.g. OpenOffice).
More choices are good for everybody. Use the application of your choice, on the platform of your choice, and produce documents and other material in a format anyone else can read. Right now, I have any number of such choices to produce graphics for a web page (jpg, png, even gif). The formats for Flash and Acrobat have been opened up, and happily they are becoming more standard. But the U.S. Government still requires all RFP submissions in Word.
More choices, however, is bad for Microsoft. They don't want open formats and lots of choices, they want (and need) everone using and exchanging MS Word documents. They want (and need) everybody using Outlook and Internet Explorer, and of course, they want (and ultimately need) everybody using Windows.
Thanks guys, thanks a lot
As if installing windows isn't enough of a headache. I had to reinstall windows in Japan, and let me tell ya, my Japanese isn't what it should be.
On a side note, I envy the Mac people here in that they can seamlessly switch between English and Japanese versions of their OS just by setting a preference.
In windows land, it's purchase both or suffer. Now more activation heedaches.
Thanks guys, thanks a lot.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. - Victor Hugo
Calling in every time I changed a bit of hardware is the only chance I get to talk to a woman...
oh.. ONLINE activation only... *WHEW*
Note: This sig contains nine S's, nine I's and five O's which... means absolutely nothing.
Seems to me MS could have solved this problem by requiring the large OEM's to stop allowing their keys to be "unused" like this. And you know what, there was a time that MS could have done this, despite the added effort/headache it would have undoutbedly been for the OEM's.
Sign O' The Times?
Step 1: Company implements some sort of copy protection.
Step 2: Legitimate users are hampered by the copy protection while illegitimate users breeze by it through various means.
Step 3: Company either ultimately removes copy protection with a black mark on its reputation or people just stop buying its products.
I know of no historical case that deviates from this for a major software release. Of course, you have various vertical applications that use dongles and other such things, but anything that is mass-distributed (like Lotus Notes or Turbo Tax) that has used copy protection either removed said copy protection or stopped selling their product.
I'm a big tall mofo.
What would happen if I wanted to reinstall late at night then? Are the telephone lines open 24 hours or would I have to reinstall between 9-5?
It seems more and more people are being driven to use cracked versions of software simply because of the DRM inconvenience.
Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Gates M'dna wgah'nagl fhtagn.
This doesn't stop piracy in anyway. Product activation only disadvantages the honest customers and thats it. The ones who use pirated windows will still use pirated windows regardless.
I've serviced many PCs, and let me tell you, servicing the boxes that come with a bona fide windows installation are a much larger pain in the ass then the ones with pirated copies.
With the pirated ones i just reinstall windows and thats it. Reinstalling on an original box requires me to spend 15 minutes after the fact talking to a a machine in Singapore because the local Toll Free number for Microsoft was disconnected ages ago.
sheesh...
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
Personally, I think it's counterproductive - it's likely to piss off paying customers, although it might help them nab some shady dealers as well.
Very few customers will care.
1. It's XP OEM only.
2. Seriously, how often do you have to re-install? Most OEM customers probably never do. And a quick phone call is no big deal.
I had NO IDEA, but I guess Microsoft is giving a head's up to all of our students to hurry up and lift our keys and do their installs before the end of the month.
Nice way to alert people how to pirate your stuff, Microsoft, while further irritating legitimate purchasers.
Speaking for myself, not my employer
"The more you tighten your grip, Darth Gates, the more systems will slip through your fingers."
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
A small step for Windows anti-piracy,
One giant leap for the advocation of OSS.
I guess there's no question now as to what I'm going
to install on that new HD of mine. (As if there was doubt before this, I guess.)
And they said zombies weren't real!
I'm really surprised that they are wasting the resources to do this. Most pirated windows xp copies have no activiation anyway. they have no key, and don't ask for one. I would say if they want to get to the source of the problem, they should re-evalutate their MSDN subscription copies and have them need to phone in a re-install. In the end though, I think everyone knows what this really is, a big waste of time. *handclap for microsoft*
Ubuntu, the way linux should be.
Try Ubuntu FREE! --
*Ring ring*
<user> Hi! I'd like to re-install windows please!
<clippy> Hi there! I see you are trying to reinstall windows. Would you like some help?
<user> Erm.... *click*
Due to a bad Adaptec PCI card (SATA interface to my hard drives) which was corrupting the hard drives, I've had to reinstall XP Pro on my primary worksation a lot lately. I took 3 re-installs to track down the problem. Each time, when I tried online activation, it would say the number of installs for the license key had been exceeded and I needed to call. So I call in, give them a very long string of numbers, they ask "why you are installing, how many computers has it been installed on, etc." Needless to say, this is pi**ing me off! I'll do everything possible to avoid Microsoft in the future! I've already purchased an Apple Powerbook.
It is things like this and the delayed operating system that makes one wonder if microsoft wants to get out of the Home User Operating system and just concentrate on their business customers.
Just think all they would really need to do is roll out a good, non-bloated version of Office for Macs and Linux that is compatible with their office version of Office and they can stop having to worry about whiny home user.
I make my face look like this and concerned words come out.
Thank-you RMS!
Thank-you Linus!
Thank-you devs!
The content (and authors) of this report have been thoroughly discredited throughout the blogosphere. ED BOTT (http://www.edbott.com/weblog/) LAYS DOWN THE TRUTH: "IF YOU BUY A NEW COMPUTER FROM ONE OF THESE 'MAJOR VENDORS,' YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTIVATE IT. THE SYSTEM MANUFACTURER ACTIVATES YOUR COPY OF WINDOWS WHEN THE COMPUTER IS BUILT. You can reinstall the operating system on that computer using the original Windows XP CD as many times as you want, with no activation required." If you replace your motherboard or try to install to a different system than the one that the OEM version came with, then you have to call to activate. Please stop the FUD folks.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
The corp version of Xp won't have this problem. Corps will continue to use their own canned builds and not care about activation.
:-)
And their employees will continue to use their Windows keys from work on their home PCs
They won't disable key activation, just for keys that are assigned to the top 20 OEM clients of Microsoft.
They are however planning to get rid of online activation alltogether.
Hmm, I hope India has enough people to man those call centers.
As of February 28, Windows users who purchased their PC will no longer be able to reinstall without calling Microsoft and answering a series of questions. No-one expects the Microsoft Inquisition!
... and then they built the supercollider.
Come on - wake up to the reality.
Some readers here live in a dream world; it goes a bit like this. Microsoft make crappy products; Microsoft (unsurprisingly) protect their crappy products; people ultimately realise this; switch to Linux.
Here's the reality. Microsoft make pretty average products that a heck of a lot of people use. Microsoft get most of their revenues from office and windows and want to protect this cash cow. Microsoft have product activation on, something that bothers a relatively minute fraction of it's user base, and tackle piracy head on. People still view Linux as a server OS, hard to use, and not friendly to people who have less than 5 minutes to read a help file. People stay on Windows. Slash dot community still angry.
This change just doesn't affect them - and importantly - until it does, please don't expect any mass migration to other operating systems. Microsoft rightly identified an exploit that pirates are using to rip them off- why shouldn't they patch it up? It really bothers me that so many people play this out as a big bad beast cracking knuckles again - it just isn't. Since when did support piracy become so acceptable to so many people?
How many times do you reinstall Windows?!
I can see maybe if you're in a strange company setting where they use a version that requires it, it may be a hassle, but I don't see most people reinstalling Windows more than once or twice a year. I guess more if you completely hose a system. That's what? 3-5 minutes? When I had to call them the one time my system had determined I changed hardware too much, it took about 1 minute for them to give me the hash I needed. I don't consider that bad at all.
Moves like this only accelerate the vicious circle. Marvelous! Thank you, Redmond! Wow, when was the last time I said that?
And we have years and years of entertainment watching MSFT's fall from the peak market dominance. Like watching that one video of an extreme skier who lost it and rolled down the mountain...seemingly forever...unable to stop the fall and it was just one agonizing tumble after another. The only difference is you felt sorry for the skier, sort of. No pity for MSFT. Wo-ho!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
... and then they built the supercollider.
This has to be the most unbelievably dumb thing I have seen Microsoft do in light of the mac mini selling for $499. One too many crash is going to send people flocking into the arms of Apple. And since mac covers the basics that most home users do (browse, email, word-processing, digital pics, etc.), this is going to be a no-brainer. I'll be buying one later this year in order to avoid this hassle. Also my PC will be a Linux box by the end of the year as well. The only reason I'm using XP now is out of sheer laziness. My Linux box had broken down and I didn't have the time to set up a new one. I bought a laptop and ran what came with it. I've already reinstalled 3 times and if I have to go through this, I will not even bother! This is great news! I'm already an Apple shareholder and I will DEFINITELY be buying more shares with this news. EVEN AT ABOVE $80!!!!
Hopefully, this will mean a lot more people buying one of these and using something like this, this, this, this or this!
Seriously. Why on Earth are people still putting up with these MS fuckers when Mac OSX and Apple hardware is so damn nice? I like a mix of Sun and Apple gear. The thought of actually deciding on MS just makes me shudder. And MS just keeps giving me more and more reason to hate them and the shit they peddle.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
My father recent ran into a rather stupid issue with the phone based activation. You see it's not a person you're talking to, but one of those recorded voice recognition systems. He had a copy of Microsoft Works that he had to reinstall, and suddenly required activation. For some reason the internet based activation didn't work so he proceeded to do the phone based one.
Well lo and behold after he enters in his proper key for the product he legitimately purchased when he got his Dell PC, it promptly tells him the key's invalid, buhbye and HANGS UP ON HIM. There was no option to speak to a CSR at all, and he has no recourse (Dell can't do anything about it, and there's no phone numbers to call at Microsoft to talk to someone). The whole experience has pushed him that much further towards getting a Mac and waving a not-so-fond farewell to Windows XP.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
I was always uncomfortable with the direction WinXP was going in with regard to Microsoft-tied code, but this takes the biscuit.
Win2k for me then has to be the Microsoft OS of choice. It's stable, and it's (relatively) fluff free. I used to forgive Microsoft a lot when Win2k first came out.
That said, I'll be phasing out MS stuff when I can now - I just can't be bothered with it all. My computers are mine. The companies that made them can eff off.
More OEMs need to offer linux. However, just as importantly there needs to be an return to discussion of software based on technical merits rather then just tossing up a five-star review based purely on the MS "look and feel". Currently the rating is more often than not an evaluation of the advertising revenue, not the tool. Also, federally funded public service programs like the ones in the UK and Finland need to stop shilling for Chairman Bill and point out other software and systems.
Disabling online MS-Windows Product Activation could be a real windfall for Linux service providers and distributors if they play their cards right.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Now that Microsoft have made it very clear to the masses that they can't re-use OEM versions of XP, I wonder if many people will start demanding OEMs to supply full versions?
At that point in time, people will realise how much Microsoft is charging for a full version of their crappy OS and probably go to Linux or Apple instead.
I can't wait.
...that I discovered accidentally. You can install and activate OEM versions of Windows using the the same activation code multiple times so long as the hardware is identical. I accidentally installed the same OEM pack on two machines. Both activated with zero problems within a week of each other. Of course this wouldn't have created too big of an issue since each machine did have it's own key stuck to the side of the machine.
True
You can reinstall the operating system on that computer using the original Windows XP CD as many times as you want, with no activation required.
False. I have an HP/Compaq (is this vendor "major" enough for you?) notebook which came with XP pre-installed, no activation needed. But when I did the reinstall that XP seems to require every six months or so, with the original CD, it wouldn't run before I did the activation.
I used to be a MS Windows Activation Specialist (a.k.a. the person you hate to call all the time if you format often) for a year in a call center in my hometown of Saint John, Canada. People who wanted to re-activate their Windows would have to answer my questions first. So I have first-hand experience of how much people hate having to call. To be fair, we did get calls from people who, after we checked their Product ID, knew they were using a burnt copy. From this, you would surmise that this system is helping to fight against piracy, right? WRONG! As long as you answered the questions correctly (which mostly consists of why they need to reactivate), their's no problem. Thus you could call in, give a cheap excuse (The most used one being the "had to format", and even if this key's been used a hundred times, we had to activate again.) The one thing I hated to have to tell people, and it happened often, was that they could only install a retail copy of windows onto one computer and one laptop (This policy might have changed, not too sure). I found this to be a silly rule, which often infuriated the user on the other end of the line. And if you have an OEM version on one computer but own two, sorry, your out of luck, you need to buy a retail ver. of windows for that second computer. From my experience, it is my belief that the combination of both the Windows OS EULA and the activation process most likely caused more people to get pirated versions (I've had many people tell me they were going to this over the phone.)
- "I reject your reality and substitute it with my own", Adam Savage
At this moment, there are two main reasons why people don't migrate to Linux: (1) XP has more games, (2) XP comes preinstalled. None of these reasons are affected by this XP activation issue. However, this new restriction in activation is certainly not something that will increase Microsoft's revenue.
If you consider that most people buy computers with the OS preinstalled and call an expert whenever a re-install is needed, you are right that this new inconvenience won't bother many people. But it's certainly an additional unneeded inconvenience, and it won't bother pirates at all. It bothers the legitimate user and doesn't affect the illegitimate ones.
If you have done any comparison on recent versions of Linux and XP, you'll have noticed that Linux is already easier and faster to install from scratch than XP. Why create more obstacles to the legitimate clients?
Really... Is there any reason to use XP over win2K? Besides the Fisher-Price interface?
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
See, that's the kind of "users are idiots _and_ thieves" mentality that's causing the problem in the first place. (And not just Windows. I wish all those idiot game publishers who now even want to install low level copy protection drivers on my machine would die a slow painful death. Cancer, for example.)
The fact is, users may not be versed in fine points like configuring a firewall or understanding security threats (then again, 90%+ of programmers have no clue about security either), but they _can_ Google, you know. You'd be surprised how finding a copy-protection crack for just about _anything_ takes mere minutes. Even little old grandmas know how to google nowadays, or get told how to real quick.
Also those users do _not_ live in a vaccuum, as the software companies and movie producers seem to assume. They seem to think the Earth is made of some 6 billion hermits, each living on a separate mountain top, and never talking to each other. If one of them found out how to download a crack or warez on P2P, surely noone else can learn that from him or her. Sad to say, that's not how it works.
If they're friends or family of a pirate, guess what? They'll get an already patched CD from that pirate. Or a CD and including the patch program separately. And then copy that CD further for others.
Or they'll get pointed at www.gamecopyworld.com, or whatever other crack site fits their particular problem, by someone who knows. E.g., someone like me.
Now I don't support piracy, and in fact I'm firmly against it, but I support idiotic copy protection schemes even less. Copy protection just doesn't work. Period. As was said, the _only_ ones affected are the honest paying customers. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna support that kind of thing.
When someone bought a product, it wasn't because they're too stupid to google for a crack, it was because they actually wanted to go buy it. Whoever wanted to pirate the stuff, actually went and pirated it.
And then going and dragging the paying users through indignities like having to call tech support to get their product activated (oops, some kiddie with a serial number generator already used yours, so more time on the phone is needed), or like having copy-protection-related trouble in the game they paid for (we'll just make your game crash because your CD drive is called "E:" instead of "D:", so surely you're a bloody pirate with CD emulator software), is just stupid and uncalled for.
Not that it will stop greedy corporate fucks from doing it anyway. There's a class of people for whom money is the only thing in life, and worth pursuing no matter what collateral damage they cause. Even when they don't even get that money.
The thought "but we could make 100 extra bucks from the only 2 guys in the world who don't already know how to download a crack" just overloads their brains. They just _have_ to get that 100$ at all cost, even if it means kicking every single honest user in the teeth. With steel toed boots.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
As an avid VMWare user, it looks like this is going to bite me. I blow away the OEM windows install, install Linux, then install the copy of Windows that came with the PC in a VMWare session.
So far this has been easy, but it sounds like in the future I'm going to have to call to ask permission to do this.
Even Windows-using developers installing VMWare for application testing are going to end up being bitten by this one.
I will be able to activate my retail copy of Windows XP Professional Edition over the Internet, instantly and hassle free. Take that OEM theives.
This shouldn't really piss people off (and no, I'm not an MS fanboy). You won't need to call them if you reinstall Windows. If your hardware hasn't changed, the activation will work. If you use your "OS Restore CD," It's already "pre-activated," so again, no phoning MS. If you scammed a key from a major vendor or you bought your computer from a sleazy computer store, then you will need to call MS. If you bought it from a sleazy store, I would make them phone MS for you. If you don't want to deal with ANY of this stuff, you can snag a copy of Corporate Ed, OR just use one of the many PA hacks out there. This will rewrte winlogon.exe and your new copy of XP won't need to be activated online. Screw the activation, the 30 day timer will not count down any more, AND you can still do updates.
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
It will definitly raise the cost of reinstalling Windows
Not if done properly first of all. If the install is done by a tech shop then they will know that you can easily backup the activation file, and restore it after re-install, and have a nice clean system with no re-activation. The vast majority of tech shops probably already do this, all the ones I am familiar with do this already.
I just can't imagine that paying all these people to handle activations is worth the money. Especially when this punishes the customers, and does little to help track down the copiers.
I am sure it's well worth it. It establishes the idea of Windows Has Value in peoples mind, which is key to the long term MS strategy. You can't just copy it willy nilly, like other OS's they non-informed people view as "knock-offs".
Windows XP - especially with SP2 - is fairly resilient. Sometimes it is easier to revert to factory install - much it is rarely if ever truly *necessary*. Regardless, the average user will never face this. Even most users will never face it. And when they do, it'll be a minor inconvience, if any at all. For a good number of people they already have to call anyways, this isn't that big of a deal.
This is Microsoft installation support. How may we help you?
A message box just popped up, saying I have to call you and answer a series of questions, before the reinstallation can be completed.
Yes ma'am, that is correct. Question number one: What is your age?
I'm 25 years old.
Are you single or married?
I'm single.
What are you wearing right now?
What th'? Why do you need to know that?
Okay, we'll come back to that one later. What is your bra size, and do you hook in front or in back?
That's TWO questions, and it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
I'm sorry, ma'am, we can't successfully complete your reinstallation unless we get accurate answers to all our questions....
Mark Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
I've avoided XP so far, partly because of the verification process required after reinstall. But I kind of figured that I'd get the version after that (been skipping DOS versions a long time: v3, v5, Win95, Win2k for me). But this is nuts. I already have PC hardware, so I expect that my next OS upgrade will be to Linux, and my next hardware purchase a Mac. Wow. I've been pro-PC for ~16 years. Never saw this coming.
VFX is more influential than you think.
I've had WPA trigger on my installed-and-activated copy each time I moved the system partition to a different drive, especially if it was bigger.
Yes, I know, I ought to totally reinstall, but when I have a drive start to give me read errors, I don't feel like risking death of data by hunting down what directories it may be in.
And when I buy a bigger drive and want to use it as my Windows system drive, and install SuSE or something on the old drive, I should be able to do that, without telling Microsoft what I'm doing.