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Puppy Linux Lets You Run From, Save To The Same CD
qewl writes "Now there's a live CD that can actually save data back onto its own disk! How does it work? The PC boots with a multi-session CD inserted in the CD-burner drive -- thus, Puppy Linux automatically knows which drive is the CD-burner, in case you have more than one CD/DVD drive. Then you use Puppy in the normal way. At shutdown, all the changed files in your home directory are saved back to CD. That's it. Next time you boot, all the personal files are restored!"
Well, my girlfriend DID say she wanted a puppy.
Early adopters of Puppy Linux have reported that they frequently need to take it out of the drive bay so it doesn't make a mess. Also, if they leave it alone for any legnth of time, it starts making whining noises and chewing up files.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
This is cool. I'll have to take a peek at it, but what would be really cool (mainly due to the size of modern distributions) would be a DVD +/- RW version of this, if Knoppix can compress ~2GB of software into a 650MB CD, think what we can do with 4.7GB of space...
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
It's a real dog.
Yeah I guess it should be called:
Mutlisession CDR Bootable/Saveable Linux
Sometimes my arms bend back.
And if the recordable disk goes bad, you get the exact same feeling as when your new puppy craps on the carpet!
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
Warm Puppy Linux?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
yeah, but does it run lin...
oh, nevermind
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
Will this thing work with a CD-RW? How about a DVD? DVD-RW? If it only works with a CD-R that's sort of useless because the CD will eventually fill up, and its basically a one-time use deal.
What would be extra cool is if you could combine this with something like the gentoo catalyst livecd making software. So not only could I save files on the RW disc but could also customize which software is on the disc to begin with. So if I wanted to get rid of X and save more space for files I could do so.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Linspire "Thriller" (membership req) LiveCDs have been able to do this for some time.
They could have named it Anonymous Crowhead.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Finally I can send a K-9 unit to the rescue. This is a whole new "pedigree" of software indeed.
I was just discussing this earlier about whether Knoppix could do just that. I suspect it will only be a matter of weeks or even days before we see a Knoppix version that can also do this.
bash: rtfm: command not found
And how many times can you boot/shutdown before you need to copy the distro + your latest config to a new disc, or before you just fill up the CD with pr0n?
Could they have picked a gayer name? Seriously.
Bad Puppy Linux?
Shush! 640MB should be enough for anyone!
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Finally an application for rewriteable optical media that truly makes sense. Another nice feature is this distribution is cached into system memory completely at runtime, so you're able to unmount and use your CD-RW-drive for other tasks while running this system as well.
This project deserves to be watched closely in the future, I'm eager to see what it's gonna offer in the future.
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g
YTARY!
I predict this becoming big with the tinfoil-hat crowd -- they'll burn one session with music and keep it in their discman until they need it; then they've got their bootable Linux, and a way to get data out of a secure...
This is reading like the plot of Alias, isn't it?
Who cares. This is cool enough that I'm going to keep a copy in my backpack.
This is a great idea.. but it says "The files are saved on the CD as normal files, not encrypted or compressed."
That's great for Windows compatability, but I'd prefer my files to be encrypted, even on a livecd.
v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
Whatever, 'winkydink'.
I'm pretty sure that burning a puppy is illegal in most states. And I'm pretty sure that's doubly true for re-buring. Remember, Dead Puppies Aren't Much Fun.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
Puppy is an odd distro isn't it? It looks and feels more like Win than any other lightweight liveCD but unlike most of them Puppy notes that the way it handles or expects to handle your hard drive there is no easy way to install it there. Apparently you have to copy it to one FAT partition, run it and install it into another FAT partition, according to the notes. I note this because running and distro straight off the liveCD is very very slow. They should have taken the time to write a better method to install it to the hard drive instead of trying to write/rewrite to the CDRW.
Wouldn't using a flash USB key make a lot more sense? Or am I missing something here?
..don't panic
...but isnt there a session overhead of about 20-25MB for every burn?
Wouldnt that make even an empty cd fail be filled after a months, nevertheless rather full distro cd?
Whats wrong with using an USB stick for such things?
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
... and get them a movie gig. They are really funny that way.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
will it have enough room left on the CD to store big movies, or just little jpg's?
Don't you mean Mutlisession CDR Bootable/Saveable GNU/Linux? :)
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Could they have picked a gayer name?
No, they could not have. This name is more sexually attracted to other names of the same gender than any other name.
Stupid like a fox!
Why should I use a CD-R, why not a CD-RW or DVD disk?
I do not recommend a CD-RW simply because it isn't necessary. A CD-R is "write-once", but in multi-session mode, tracks can be written one after the other, up to 99 tracks or the CD becomes full. You could use a DVD-R, however I would discourage you. Puppy has a mechanism for keeping track of deleted files, and this may become unwieldy if a very large number of deleted files have to be kept track of. This mechanism works on a per-CD or per-DVD basis, and is going to be more manageable with the smaller number of files on the CD. Also, it could take years before you fill-up a DVD, and in the meantime, unless you leave it permanently in the drive, there is the increased risk of it being scratched. Note however, this is tentative advice -- it may turn out in practice that a DVD-R is a good way to go.
Well know i trully say that my dog ate my homework
...Burn it's files onto a DVD! Admittedly, that probably wouldn't work if you have a lot of MP3s in your home directory, but, whatever.
It's an interesting idea, but I'll stick with my hard drive for now, I think.
Tluin natha Linux xxizzuss uriu olt bwael mon'tun.
Anyhow, even if some of that is available, it might just plain be convenient. I like the idea, anyway
since you can only have 99 tracks the CD, wouldn't "Eleven Cats" would be a more fitting name? Or "99 bottles of Linux"?
Pretty funny for all the "everything will be connected, even your toaster," crowd out there ... it now seem that because of the ever increasing spyware/malware/viruses, etc., pretty soon we will have to boot up a live Linux CD to use the Internet.
I would use Ubunto, which is the first live Linux I have gotten my hands on, but it wouldn't pick up my modem correctly (probably a win modem thing). Other than that, and the fact that it wouldn't play MP3s without a plugin, I loved Ubunto. Linux is way close to "getting there."
But after I wasted three days getting some powerful trojan crap off my computer not too long ago (yes, on an XP system), running from a CD and having a read only hard drive while connected to the Net seems like a pretty good idea, to me!
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
I have been using Puppy Linux for a while now, and it is a wonderful distro. It's small, but it has tons of stuff. It has a nice working X server, abiword, a few web browsers, tons of other utility's and NTFS support. It is really fast if you have enough ram for /usr to be a ramdisk. I highly reccomed it for anyone looking for a non-knoppix derivative.
"Love is like a trampoline, first it's like "SWEET!!" then it's like *BLAMM!*"
Why they not use packet writing instead of multisession cd-r?
:D
It's a patch for the linux kernel that make it treat CD-RWs as another local filesystem, you can write and remove files as you can do that in your harddrive, no need to blank all the cdrw.
I tried it on the nitro kernel patchset, and it was fast on 4x media
(I think Nero InCD does the same thing)
Yeah, but at least it's not named:
Extreme Multisession CDR Bootable/Saveable Linux XP 3000
Wouldn't using a live CD as your OS as an internet cafe owner save you megabucks on the hard drives you didn't have to buy? Not to mention no spyware dangers, or no users mucking up the configuration of the machines? And as a customer, simply rebooting when your done would clear all sensitive information.
Shh.
Is this Linux's answer to Microsoft's Clippy?
Run along now and finish your homework. Big quiz in Health class tomorrow.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Hmmm. I think if we add the word "edition" in there somewhere we've got the perfect name!
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Or cowheart!
Boot from the CDROM. Use the USB key for a user directory, or whatever.
Isn't this easier than always writing to the CDROM, a slow and more likely to fail matter?
..don't panic
They don't come
when you call.
They don't chase
squirrels at all.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Yeah, but does it run Windows?
You know, there's a perfectly good media called DVD-RAM which works exactly like a floppy drive - only with 4.7Gb capacity. It's a true writable format with a media that's relatively durable.
DVD-RAM drives are less common than DVD/CD-R/RW, but at around $60, there's no reason not to have one if you want to run something like Puppy Linux on your own computer. (And DVD-RAM drives rock anyway, I've been using mine for casual data backups).
I would love to see a straitforward utility for installing the OS from the CD to the hard drive, not just copying the filesystem but automatically modifying the necessary config files.
As things are now, liveCDs let us test drive an OS/distro. If we like it then we need to download another CD(s) and go through a laborious install and configure process. This is fine with most setups, but is a nightmare for configuring non-standard hardware (namely PCMCIA wireless cards), especially when the liveCD works so well.
LiveCDs can be a better starting off point for installing OSs/distros than installer isos. So why not provide the option for the livecd to act as the installer?
I have archtected Puppy Linux in a laptop on an expedition to Mt. Everest - the Flash/CDROM combination will enable the laptops to work above 18000ft, where a lot of hard disks "pop" out.
Im a Linux Novice, and I managed to get this CD working in no time. Well done!
http://www.goosee.com/puppy/multi-puppy.htm .9.9 is still a plain live CD?
Can someone confirm that only the latest ALPHA version is multisession, and
Also I wish they had a torrent available, I feel almost bad with Puppy being caught with its pants down, torrentless.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Wouldn't this be a great idea for a gaming console. Imagine PS3 running a sanctioned version. The owner could just plug in a keyboard and voila...Instant cheap computer. I'm especially suprised Sony doesn't take such an approach.
I know I know, TF is infamous for the curropt LG3D file. Sorry about that, it was an accident. Heres a torrent for the puppy-1.0.0alpha-firefox-multisession.iso it's tested and works, pretty cool too. You have to be a member to DL the .torrent file, but we don't care who acesses the tracker. If someone wants to mirror the .torrent they are more the welcome to.
heres the link for members http://www.titaniumforums.com/torrent/software/ind ex.php
According to the web site, Puppy Linux was originally developed to run off a Compact Flash reader, and will also run off a 128mb USB key (with the capability to keep files on the key).
Could they have picked a gayer name?
No, they could not have. This name is happier than any other name.
What you reap is what you sow
The problem is RW disks fail without warning, and they are only good for a 1000 writes (this is optimistic in my experience). Unless you do a verify after the write you cannot be sure that you data is saved. Worse, you have overwritten the last version too, so you can't use any hacks to get back older versions of the files you really need.
DVD-RAM in a caddy, or not removed from the drive, shouldn't have this problem. Good luck finding a DVD-RAM drive anywhere though.
Turn unit OFF before unplugging cord.
>A CD-R is "write-once", but in multi-session mode, tracks can be written one after the other, up to 99 tracks or the CD becomes full.
:)
99 steps is extremely low. That means you'll have 99 sessions maximum. Multi-session is very inefficient too. But you're using a CD in the first place, so I guess efficiency isn't high on your list.
CD-RWs also have problems because they also have a limited number of writes. But you could cut down on the rewriting if you used some sort of hybrid multi-session scheme (where it did the multi-session method until it started getting out of hand, then rewrote the CD).
Using something like that would give you a pretty long lifetime per medium.
Where I work, we try to lock down the operator machines that we install our client to as much as possible. I see Puppy as being a very quick and easy way to generate a locked down live disc for those client stations. It gives us a base OS install to start from. We follow that by installing our client software, then lock down the account to only run our app. Burn a copy, throw it in the client machine, and call it a day. If they ever replace the PC or if the disc breaks, it would be a very simple matter to burn another copy and toss it in. Much better than re-installing an OS, all of the client configuration, and locking down the account. I'm keeping my eye on this one.
Most computers won't boot from a USB device, maybe not most factory-fresh ones but most out in every day circulation. And those in public settings often have this feature dissabled in the [password protected] system configuration. Still stands tho, CDs are a butt load cheaper than USB keys, even RW disks,
I like the shortened version: Punix
I like 'Puppy Linux', it's a nice name :)
Can you imagine a beo-woof cluster of these?
AFAIK when you delete/overwrite a file on a multisession CDR, you're not reusing that space. New data is always written to a blank part of the disk, and the old data is ignored by the file allocation tables...
.bash_history will be taking up that much more space.
So, you'll be running out of space with every file that's stored to the disk. Every time you shutdown and burn to disk, your
Still tho, _awesome_ implementation (haven't tried it yet).
I do not recommend a CD-RW simply because it isn't necessary.
But does it work?
"Not necessary"? Well, it will fill up.
Is that really a completely neglible fact?
This but for a DVD-RW sounds cool.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Now even the geeks can all do it "doggie-style"!
puppy% livesess --commit
Writing 42MB from ramdisk to cd session 23
puppy%
2. How much room left, will it fit...
puppy% livesess --status
Media type is CD-R 700MB 23 sessions used, 76 sessions remain.
322MB used, 378MB free space remain.
42MB on ramdisk.
Session can be saved on current CD.
They could have called it pussydog linuts.
Is Puppy Linux a fully versioned file system? With each new track that it writes, it saves my files. Does it also remember my deletes? Does it have user-initiated write-back capability, forcing a new track even before shutdown?
If so, wow - we have a fully-versioned archiving live filesystem. If I totally destroy something in the system during one particular session (and write it out not realizing the problem), (and assuming I don't hose the ability to write out my session) I should theoretically be able to boot back to a previous version and continue on.
This should be immensely popular among distro creators, full-tilt hobbyists, configuration management specialists, and quality assurance people.
Additionally, because it keeps track of everything, the computer intrusion forensics people should benefit from the permanent archival of the "every step you take" kinds of information. You just have to reboot or write back between every major change.
Not to mention, you no longer need to remind yourself to make backups.
That would be great if done with a DVD But it will take some time before DVD burners are cheap and chips
I might believe that harddisks die in cold murky weather, but the idea that a CD-Rom would work where a disk fails is absurd. It cannot be sealed (as well as a hd)
: www.computer-chat.com/hardware/Hard_drives_are_her metically_sealed_200576.html+harddisk+ambient-pres sure&hl=da&client=firefox-a
How does a sealed harddisk behave when the outside pressure drops? Will it suffer damage from the difference between internal and external pressure?
This seems to be his main concern.
I do not know whether harddisks are hermetically sealed, though. Google found this discussion with highly contradicting opinions: http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:SAGduiPmHLQJ
Well.... *I* would have named it Slash*nix, in honor of this oft-re-usable collection of articles, files and assorted other junk we like talking about so much here on Slashdot.
It's all about the re-use baby.
"Love is like pi - natural, irrational, and very important." (Lisa Hoffman)