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Japanese Firms Claim 170Mb/s Service Via Powerline
valdean writes "Sony, Mitsubishi, and Panasonic have created and launched a new technology to transport Internet and media signals around the home via the electricity network at speeds 3x that of Wi-Fi. It's even fast enough for HDTV. The introduction is only dependent on government authorization."
I thought they just said it would be impossible to go over 100MB/s :/
"We think our technology is better."
Nothing new there...
Asked why the three companies came up with their own technology and risked yet another format war in the consumer electronics world, Chmielewski said: "We think our technology is better."
Translation: We patented our version. Ka-ching!
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
That is 170Mb/s when tested over a dedicated power line... The speed will bottle-neck all over the network when used with an unknown number of users. But it is good to know that a direct dedicated point to point line can handle such speeds. Means, depending on the architecture of the network and the locations of the end points the users could see as much as 10Mb/s of that each.
Electrical power lines are not surrounded by a ground shield. I hope they came up with some security to go along with their high-frequency data mover.
HANOVER, Germany (Reuters) - Three Japanese consumer electronics giants have created a new technology to transport Internet and media signals around the home via the electricity network, Panasonic said on Thursday. Sony (6758.T), Mitsubishi (6503.T) and Matsushita-owned (6752.T) Panasonic have set up the SECA powerline alliance.
Desktop Duel
Preview the major OS updates from Apple and Microsoft. Is OS X reason to switch? Plus, the latest Linux goods.
They have developed a system to transfer 170 Megabits per second of data through the power lines of a home, Panasonic researcher Ingo Chmielewski told journalists at the electronics trade fair CeBIT.
He said the technology is already available and introduction depended on government authorization.
The speed is three times faster than wireless technology Wi-Fi and is fast enough for high definition television signals. Unlike wireless alternatives, the powerline technology performance is stable throughout the home. SECA will compete with existing technology from the HomePlug alliance of 50 companies, including Japanese group Sharp (6753.T). The two systems are not compatible.
HomePlug's current standard is only 14 Mbps but it is thought to be working on a faster version.
Sony is also a member of HomePlug, according to the consortium's Web Site and it was unclear if it would be part of both. Sony was not available to comment.
Asked why the three companies came up with their own technology and risked yet another format war in the consumer electronics world, Chmielewski said: "We think our technology is better."
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
I first saw network over home powerline products quite some time ago (probably not at these speeds, however). I seem to recall the usual issues about dirty power, the fridge kicking in, et cetera et cetera. Does this deal with those any better?
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Will this technology induce extra RF interference in other appliances? It was considered a negative possibility everytime Broadband over Powerlines has been mentioned in the past. Does being localized to a home reduce that? Is it actually localized to the home or can it spread from a home to outside powerlines then onto another home?
*Imagines the next form of "War-Driving"*
From what I've learned, Japanese engineers have the enviable ability to invent something to fit their needs, even though the development cost would have to be recouped in sales. The stories I hear about developers here in America tell tales of requirements of immediate or near-immediate profits. *coughCarlyFionacough*
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Household power wiring is not designed to be an RF transmission line. Are they going to follow the path taken by BPL and Homeplug, that is to shit all over the HF spectrum since nobody important is using it?
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
From how I read the article, this is something for home networking rather than a method to provide internet access to consumers.
This is for home networking. You have to plug your computer in, you might as well have a second cable wrapped up in the power cord to connect you to your network as well. Its cheap, just works, and you dont have to worry about neighbors cracking your WEP key and using your connection.
Regards,
Steve
It's Yahoo. I doubt they can't survive a slashdotting.
Why not just say x times faster than DSL or Broadband? I think more people understand those kinds of data rate comparisons. And it's the same type of physical layer.
I don't get it.
This isn't the same ol' "Broadband over Powerlines" that we've seen before. We're not talking about an ISP service here. It's a local home network, like a wireless hub. You'd still need to provide internet access. Plug your net connection into one socket, and your terminal into any available outlet in your home, et voila: Internet access anywhere in your home an outlet exists. No worries about walls blocking the signal. The obvious downside to this being, you have to be leashed to something to maintain your access; provided they don't make it wireless for "the last foot". Of course, that would nulify much of the usefullness of such a network.
If they implement this here, kiss your 2 way radio's good-bye. The radio interference those large powerlines give off when they are all jacked up with Broadband is nasty.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
I have three major concerns with this.
1: Noise between your network and your neighbor's network that are both on power lines coming from the same transformer on the pole, with no transformer inbetween. 2: Noise on the mains from the network equipment interferes with your power-level sensitive equipment. 3: Noise on the mains from equipment (possibly malfunctioning) on the mains that interferes with the network equipment.
Video Production Support
Yeah, we wouldn't want anyone plugging stuff into the power outlets, would we?
Oh wait...
I will not RTFA.
I don't need to RTFA.
I already know this technology is bad with out RingTFA.
So, no, I will not RTFA.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
If it is from Japan, there has just GOT to be a robot involved somehow.
Table-ized A.I.
I love reading stuff like this.
All I can think of is the bosses of our local telecomms incumbent reading this, instantly loosing control of their bowels, the splash of the explosion showering their faithful lieutenants in gooey excrement.
I'm in New Zealand. We pay $70/month for 2mb down 196K up. Its sketchy at best as interleaving pushes pings to about 70-90ms. No unbundling of the LL, and a government that takes it like the Goatse guy from the incumbent, better service is a far off dream.
Please, dear jesus, let alternatives like BB over powerlines work.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
i think the reason they're comparing this to wifi is that people use wifi so they don't have to run wires. your home is already wired for electricity in most cases all over the house, but wiring it (cleanly and nicely with a wall plug) for gigabit ethernet is going to cost you.
No I did not RTA and I graciously stand corrected.
And who modded me "informative"??? My post deserves a "RTFA" tag.
It is important to note that this technology would only work inside your home. It would never make it past the transformer at that speed, if even at all. Transformers, by their very nature, kill off any signal that would be sent down the line. Now if you could have a bypass, with a rather large resistor to cut back the outside voltage, then we might have something. Since that's not very practical, don't hold your breath.
For home networks that wanna, say, stream HDTV from a media server with something like MythTV, that sounds pretty sweet.
bash: rtfm: command not found
Any proof that it won't work? Who did the social study?
Never lived over there, have you?
Now I have to firewall my exterior power outlets?!
I wonder what the distance is on this deal
The range would be until you hit the first transformer, so not effective as an Internet service. See my top-level post for more information.
bash: rtfm: command not found
"Chinese researchers have developed a technology to access the Internet via power lines, which is expected to rapidly increase Internet usage in China.
1 29 _89568.shtml
Developed by the Fujian Electric Power Testing and Research Institute and known as 10MBPS digitized power line (DPL) the technology enables computers to access the Internet via an USB power line communication adapter.
With a modem, it also allows data communication to be made via a power line between computers and any electrical equipment, such as computers, TV, DVD and even heating devices, making remote control easier.
Lin Han, president of the research institute, said that the technology is superior in speed and stability to similar technology in foreign countries . "It works well with a voltage range from 180-240 volts, with a maximum data transmission speed of 10MB per second.
According to the institute, the technology is now ready for commercial use. When mass produced, the special modem required will cost around 500 yuan (60.24 U.S. dollars), which is about the same cost as conventional modems.
The institute still has to go through a series of formalities before commercializing the technology. "
[reference]
http://english.people.com.cn/200201/29/eng20020
Two words: Vega. Strike.
(and other streaming/downloading/MMOG uses that other Slashdotters can tell you about; though I seriously wonder, can any server even upload at 170Mb (or 21.25MB)/s?!? I hope the companies in the US are looking at Nihon; they'll get a lot of money from me if they offer it here.)
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
maybe, just maybe, you might want to read the article next time before you go on a rant. this technology has nothing to do with broadband over powerlines. this works over the premise wiring in your home or building.
-Lod
Check your history books for a company called Gridcomm around the 1986 time frame.
It gets high speeds inside the home, enough for HDTV, but why would I want to broadcast an HDTV signal through my home's powerlines when I can get it just as well through normal cable or satellite?
So you can just plug your tv into any power outlet and not have to worry bout anything else.
This would be kickass in an apartment building, condo or hotel. I can see it making real impact there.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
What's next, wireless electricity and cordless extension cords.
with 170Mb internet connection, i dunno....
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
This technology does not exist.
It's just a way for firms to bilk money from Government grants and gullible investors.
in my apartment in china i can have on one heater and some lights before the circuit trips, so does this mean i have to sacrifice my heater or lights for this service? you should see when i switch on the microwave! oh and they wont install a bigger breaker as the apartment building isn't up to snuff
When there is a disaster, and they need to use ham radios, I hope they enjoy the interference. Sad that they are not remembering that lo tech sometimes is needed - and this interferes with lo tech radio wave transmissions.
now, that will finally kill my x10, already barely working due to interferences.
will have something to say about this.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
so my walls that i sleep near will be buzzing with more data emitting more radiation then my cell phone now.
...at least if T3 servers can upload as fast as shown here.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Stop being so arrogant. Yahoo isn't some feeble online company with a penny-pound server. It's going to take a lot more than a patrol of online geeks to "Slashdot" one of the world's largest online corporations.
My digital rights don't need management.
*blank stare*
You mean your house isn't wired for at gigabit ethernet?
Closer to 8/170th of a second, seeing as you're measuring in megabytes, not megabits.
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
You only need an adapter.
Sheesh, you know that a disaster can be localized right? If they need to communicate across an area that is untouched by the disaster (ie everything is still running) to an area that has been decimated (ie nothing is running) - you are still going to have trouble.
Of course that's also that many fewer people being exposed to the ads that helped pay for everything that went into the article being written and posted at the original site in the first place, but we're all too cheap to buy any of that stuff anyway :-)
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
The interference that BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) causes to the high frequency radio spectrum is more than simply a slight annoyance to amateur radio operators. It totally destroys abilities to use HF frequencies that are vital to long distance communications. Amateur radio operators put alot of time, effort, and money into their hobby, and when something like this comes along, that can cripple them, who can blame them for fighting against it?
See arrl.org for more info on BPL. The Rochester Amateur Radio Club also has Posted some good info on BPL. Or just google "BPL Amateur Radio".
When all else fails . . . There's amateur radio!
-KI4IHC
Technically, that was last year. This year they're too busy calling people stupid assholes.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
Ok here is a theory. With IPv6 supposedly the next big thing, do you think that this might aid the introduction of new internet capable devices. Considering the new internet technology supports 430 quintillion addresses per square inch. So, why not use every bit of wiring already in existence in a house? Yeah it may only be good for in the house, but isn't that good enough. No it's not for the LAN games of the future.
Would be nice to have a chip in every light bulb. No need for a special socket, or rewiring, just buy the latest light bulb technology. Oh, you'll see it, I'm sure it will be in the stores some day. Does it really matter what this chip does? It could make the light bulb turn on. But why not throw a chip into everything if you can. Why not make everything better than it is now? It wouldn't make life any better, but who the hell cares when you got all these new fangled contraptions. If all it took to have a wired connection was to plug in the power then it would be more feasible that devices would take advantage. The current proliferation of technology certainly points to this possibility.
Given that the maximum length for ethernet is 100m, and the signal degrades greatly over that range, I wonder if this would be better for connecting separate buildings (like, say, a farmhouse and a barn). Could be useful.
Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
That is the American 110V version. The Japanese use other voltages.
Anyway, the BEST one you can get, uses 660V 3-Phase. It works even faster.
greg, REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
not arrogant, ment more as a joke seeing as how the article is about massive bandwidth networks... some people have no sence of humor, not to mention now noone has an excuse not to have RTFA
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
...what is so bloody complicated in running your own cat 5e cables around your home ?
Actually "Profit" is step (4). Step (3) is clearly documented as :
(3)...
It should be noted that this step is vastly important.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
Would that make it power-porn?
It's even fast enough for HDTV.
Wow, it can do a whole 19.5mbps!
Well, knock me over with a feather!
I never thought I would see that kind of speeds in my home network!
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
The good news is that we will finally be able to SSH over to one of those refrigerators that run Linux.
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While you might only need 19.5Mbps, that assumes only one channel/TV, and assume you aren't do anything else on the network. Most homes have to contend with multiple TV's, plus little Jenny video chatting with her friends, and little bobby is downloading MP3's over P2P, while mom is using Vonage to make a call. You need a bigger pipe to support all of that.
The real question that now needs to be asked is what sort of QoS is provided to insure no dropped packets for VoIP and HDTV?
Only Russia has the time machine technology that could be used to travel to three years ago to retrieve this technology-- and they aren't interested in sharing.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
It will be most interesting to se how they plan to evade the EU EMC directive on this one.
Spewing HF and UHF energy out on the power-line is something you can't do in a residential context. (Just think of the emissions being transformed backwards through the power grid.)
the /. headline is misleading. It's a LAN solution, not a broadband Internet service. The word "service" should not appear in the title.
if the power wiring is not segmented (for fifty users, it will likely come in two to six easily RF-separable sets of circuits, typically one set per floor), if each of the three phases are RF-connected and not filtered (unlikely), and if every single resident uses the service.
In real life and assuming reasonable terms, about half of your tenants will take you up on it; the three phases will be separable, and your fifty residences will be in three floors of seventeen units each. This gives you six residences per phase per segment, or three actual users per phase-segment. More likely this would happen to a block of 600 units on five floors with about 30 actual users per phase-segment, or about 6Mb/s each.
Then we add the killer term: on average.
If two of those users are watching the same video feed, they share 12Mb/s for it (and with a compressed video stream would be struggling to use more than about 2, thus freeing up anouther 10Mb for the others). If another happens to have their PC off while they're at work, their 6MB is 100% available to the other 30, ie, 0.2Mb extra each (pecking away at email, IM, IRC or HTML browsing will also use close enough to zero bandwidth, out of 6Mb, for most accounting purposes).
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Um, new? Is this at all similar to what Cinergy (and probably others) has been experimenting with since March 2004?
There is no way I'll be using this technology in the near future after having 3 seperate computers crap out on me at my parents house in large part due to dirty power throughout the house. Can anyone tell me what sort of effect this will have on unprotected appliances in the home over a long period of time?
That's why God invented Wiremold. In wall wiring is one of the silliest things we do.
KFG
Flamebait??? Rude, yes. But also funny. Do the mods have no sense of humor today?
Correction: We're all to cheap to even let our browsers load the ads.
I can do 100Mb/s over ordinary CAT5, and it costs $60 for a 1000' box. Why the hell would I want to use the electric wiring in a home for networking?
Heres a message for them - "Go back and figure out how an ISP can use the outside wiring to deliver last-mile broadband, bypassing both the cable and telephone companies. Then you might have something newsworthy"
Many HAM's have portable stations installed in automobiles - not dependent on anything that a disaster might put OOC (eg, electric utility).
Remember, BPL is the hell is it because it uses miles-long antennae (i.e. the power lines) to wreak havoc. If this is an internal-solution it might not be as problematic, and second, it is much more likely to be stomped on hard by Riley et al under Part 15 rules if it interferes.
Cheers, Peter, W2IRT
How short our memories. This idea pops up every few months. Somebody gets the idea that because wire is wire, you can piggyback twisted-pair ethernet like signals over the power wires. And you can. In the lab. With no surge surpressors on the line. No light-dimmers. No Touch-lamps. No taxicab radios in use nearby. and 500KW TV station within 5 miles. No subways or streetcars closer than a block. No biker bar nearby. Works about good enough to convince the latest incarnation of venture capitalists. Yep, works real good.
ethernet cannot go anymore 100 metres
Ethernet is typically connected by 8-conductor unshielded twisted pair cable. The wires inside are twisted so that they will have an immunity from certain interference. As the signal inside those wires travels farther, it degrades and it loses its ability to cancel out that interference. As the interference grows, the signal (and thus the connection speed) drops proportionately. That is why you need signal boosters, more commonly called repeaters, for distances over 100 meters.
You can connect two points at distances over 100 meters, but by doing so you would violate the Category 5 Standard and will not achieve the full 100 Mpbs potential.
bash: rtfm: command not found
Just what I always wanted, yet another source of radio spectrum noise. No small issue, we're talking disruption of a service that most people aren't even aware of and is insignificant until there is a major disaster.
BPL info at ARRL.org
There are current Powerline products out there.
Though the speeds are pretty dismal (up to 14mbps) they work WONDERFULLY in homes in which wirelss is simply not an option, no one cares to transfer large files between computers, and no one wants to poke holes in walls.
Everyone is right about the security problem, though Netgear, for example, ships a utility that places a password on the connection. I've honestly never tested it in my line of work, but it purports to stop rogue powerline adapters from plugging into open outlets and gaining Internet access.
I, for one, welcome our Sony/Panasonic/Mitsubishi-170Mbps-Powerline-Tech overlords.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
This is not a revolutionary new idea. It's been discussed for several years because of this problem. Also, please note from the article this is not a replacement for you cable modem or DSL (or verizon fiber). It's a replacement for your wireless router or cables draped down the stairwells inside your house.
I'm really enjoying these trolls about the threat of China. A new trend or had I missed this one? :)
:P
Keep it up!
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
No, no, no. The signals do not go outside the home. They're talking LAN not WAN. The signal strength of the transmitter is probably in the order of a few milli-watts - don't panic, it won't interfere with some ham radio operator 2,000 miles away (maybe next door, the the carrier frequency is going to be in the 2-9 GHz range, so unless he is chatting with someone on Venus, it probably won't hurt). I would imagine there will be transmitters/receivers plugged into the power outlets that have different channel settings on them. If you are getting interference from your neighbor, then switch channels. Those same transmitters/receivers will filter out any powerline spikes/appliance cycling/etc. Nothing really new here (this technology has been around for many, many years), just more bandwidth. I worked on a design back in the late 70's to send data over the power feed of a borehole navigator. Been there, done that. Remember X-10? Same principal, but more bandwidth.
Perfect is ALMOST good enough.
Spanish DS2 PLC chipset developer provides more than 200 Mbps:
"The DSS9XXX-based series of PLC modem devices share the same physical layer characteristics, allowing seamless integration of access, in-building and in-home media networks. Advanced OFDM modulation provides the ability to cope with all of the powerline channel impairments while using high-density constellations that provide a throughput of more than 200 Mbps."