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Oracle and Mozilla Foundation Work Quietly Together
KenDaMan writes "CNet is running a story about the ties between Oracle and the Mozilla Foundation. Oracle hired three people to work on Mozilla Lightning. This project, which aims to integrate Mozilla's calendar application, Sunbird, with its e-mail application, Thunderbird, is believed to be key to cracking the market dominance of Microsoft Outlook. Is Oracle getting set make an Open Source offering?"
"CNet is running a story about the ties between Oracle and the Mozilla Foundation..."
Yeah. A running news story on at least two large news sites. Pretty good job keeping the lid on this one, Oracle and Moz!
evolution is already there
Its good to see big companies like Oracle working on alternatives to Microsoft's exchange server software, Sunbird will be the better for this collaboration
Business Voyeur
Oracle is probably just testing the waters before trying to dominate a field that it can't just buy. I don't see them as pro-open source, more like use open-source just until we come out on top.
Wait til Bill finds out about this!! He is going to be furious!
But they are probably wanting you to use an oracle back end.
Is Oracle getting set make an Open Source offering?
I dunno. Is Slashdot getting set make good English on the Editor?
At least they're doing something that could benefit the public that doesn't include 'an exciting new offer and great deal!'
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Please don't make Thunderbird any more bloated than it alread is. Why must a calendar be integrated with e-mail anyways?
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
MozillaZine is running a story, too, and it's probably a little more truthful...
ZDNet Tries to Get to the Bottom of the Oracle-Mozilla Relationship
R.Mo
Oracle works quietly with Mozilla
Apparently not anymore.. Slashdot knows!!!
Outlook is not the real key to beat Microsoft on the Office front - but Exchange.
As soon as you can free companies from the Exchange lock in and offer a better alternative then you have a chance.
Most people for example love OpenOffice, but won't switch, since they also need Outlook which is connected to the data on the Exchange server.
No Exchange server - no underlaying windows server. No Outlook - no Microsoft Office.
So what's needed is a strong Thunderbird for Office slaves and an Exchange replacement - plus total data import.
Most redundant link ever :). Still, with any luck, we'll slashdot BG's website ... so not all bad ...
I dunno.. I think Ellison's agressive tendencies put Gates' to shame. The only thing Gates has over him is a head start..
Oracle has been trying since forever for enterprises to take up its Enterprise email offering (which works with Outlook AFAIK. I'm pretty sure they'd love to give a free rich client to their customers, which could explain their love for Mozilla Calendar. And yeah, if open standards-based Calendaring catches on, one of the biggest reasons to use proprietary software (Notes/Exchange) goes away.
If Open-Sourcers had a strategy department, they'd make Mozilla Calendar the most important product they have to ship, far more important than Firefox. Unfortunately (or fortunately for IBM/MS) things don't quite work that way.
Go somewhere random
Is Oracle getting set make an Open Source offering?
No.
Oracle offers a product that aims to compete head to head with Microsoft's suite of collaboration products.
One of my former clients was looking to use this software in their enterprise, which, at the time, was using mostly Microsoft products on this front. My impression of the matter was the that the only reason that they were even considering this was because they had a site license for Oracle's database, development, and web services products, and had on-site consultants offering solutions to them.
IE, Oracle certainly had their ear already.
Oracle probably views Thunderbird as a way to break Microsoft's hold on this sector of the market. By restoring some competition on this front, they could market their products more effectively.
As far as the collaboration suite goes, there is a work on a plugin for Thunderbird to integrate the Oracle Calendar system and I am sure there are other efforts I am not aware of.
This level of involvement is nothing unusual. Oracle has always had projects aimed at improvement of software that we use or that runs together with our systems. Its just that with FOSS projects its much easier to get access to the source code and do these changes without a horde of lawyers having to sort things out first with the other company or vendor.
Here's a thought.....
Its not secret anymore. With the release of Solaris 10 as free, is it any wonder that Oracle would look at opening its market share a bit with a similar move.
I think the real news here is that F/OSS is having an effect on the software industry. I believe that effect is a good one. Solaris 10 might not be the best thing I've ever seen, its a start. Oracle working in their domain space to open up things like CRM, SAP, and other areas is a damn good thing. If they can produce something that opens these and other markets to F/OSS then the competition gets tougher and more wide spread.
The opening of Microsoft dominated markets is nothing but good news. Any weakening of their grip on the software industry in any domain opens up that market so even proprietary vendors have a shot at it.
This move doesn't surprise me at all, in fact, I believe that we will see much more of this. It costs very little in terms of lock-in and other long term financial factors to work with F/OSS to open up a market that is practically locked down by a single vendor, whether that vendor is Microsoft or not.
A long time ago, it was said that you could never get fired for buying big blue. That kind of reputation is one that Microsoft never achieved. The software industry began changing so fast that it never could get that reputation, but the fallout of the fast paced changes is that if you have a reputation of great support and super value for money you will end up with market share. This is still in the process of becomming a defacto standard.
As F/OSS products become more technically and financially strong, it is in the best interests of any software vendor to work with those products, even promote and support them.
A product or two that runs on an Oracle backend product and directly competes with Microsoft etc. is a good thing... it opens up the market to more competition. If it will run on Oracle, it can probably run on mySQL etc. What options it ends up with is of little concern if it takes market share from the dominant player in that market.
Since people with little budgets are not Oracles main revenue stream, these new products would directly mangle revenue streams of Microsoft and make Oracle the version that you would use if you had to scale to large size operations.
It just makes sense.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
This is like Microsoft v/s Others. All others see that the only way to break Microsoft's strong hold is to help open source softwares. What happens after MS strong hold is gone. Are these companies stop collabarating with open source software?
I will not be able to entirely wean myself off outlook until an alternative can support mobile calendars on pocketpc and palmos.
and so does Evolution. Why do we need a third option?
My boss sends me an invite to an annoying meeting. I click "accept" (unfortunately). It gets copied to my agenda and synchronised to my phone. 15 minutes before the meeting, my phone starts beeping and sais "QM meeting, room AX5". All with ONE mouseclick. Do this in open source and I will WALK all the way to Redmond to tell Billy he should stick a fork in it.
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
My favorite way to break the MS control of corporate groupware is the OSS project Open-Xchange. It's a Linux server that replaces MS-Exchange (without users even needing to know), with an Outlook plugin, and Evolution compatibility (through open standards). It is a hub server that uses standard interop with other server types, like Samba, SMTP, LDAP, HTTP, and SQL, so the services it bundles to the client can be delivered by existing servers, or the installer's choice of (standards) compatible ones. The source is open, and it's got a documented plugin API, as well as an open, documented data schema available to any additional apps. And it's the core of Novell's GroupWise suite, so it can be upgraded to a version supported by Novell's global staff. It runs on Linux, so its uptime and scalability are reliable. With O-X working, it's no longer necessary to rely on MS Exchange to get MS Exchange features.
FWIW, I'd love to see people take the Mozilla/Oracle code for improving Fire/Thunderbird, and improve their integration with O-X. That kind of cross-pollination is perfect for OSS, and leaves proprietary competition, like MS Exchange, standing behind like a stick in the mud.
--
make install -not war
I believe that Bill Murray and his crowd dealt with XUL in the original GhostBusters film.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
On the surface, it looks to me like the Mozilla boys want to bring down Bill and Microsoft so bad, that they are perfectly willing to dance with The Devil themselves. Reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
how much of a bonus it is being able to edit your own message filters in Evolution. Would any one else like to see that feature possibly added to Thunderbird? Is that possible?
I use both evolution and Thunderbird. It all depends on which computer I happen to be sitting in front of at the time. I use Thunderbird on my Mac and Evolution for a couple of Linux machines. I just think it would ice the cake of Thunderbird of they ever added filter options to Thunderbird. A lot of people would be happier knowing that could control the spam level via a personal client.
Which phone do you use?
Seriously.. I have been having a hard time getting different cell phones to sync to calendars.. I have a Nokia 3300 which has a option for calendar sync. It can sync over the internet. I just have to type in the url of the server and it will do it.. Problem is there is no documentation and I have no idea what type of server etc to point it to.. or what type of server I must buy in order to set one up...
any help?
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
Love OpenOffice? Only if they are blind or don't work for a major company.
I doubt that. What makes Microsoft LookOut so appealing to big business, or even small business for that matter, is not that it's a great email client - it's the intergration with MS Exchange. Shared contact list, scheduling, folders, all from a central location. Is there a Mozilla server in the works?
You can have shared address books using LDAP but can you modify those contacts directly from the email client? Until that can happen lets not get too excited.
Amazing that the addition of only three full-time employees is expected to create a product that might challenge the largest company on the planet.
You'll find out.
a treo.
Oracle already bought out Steltor's CorporateTime, which was an Exchange Killer, and then buried it in proprietary bullshit. I've since moved over to Exchange4Linux, which, barring the poor name, I feel really is an Exchange Killer.
Basically the entire thing runs inside of Postfix and PostgreSQL. It's written in Python, and the server software is 100% open source. The Outlook Connector is not (it too is written in Python). So far it's been working great (huge datastore, calendaring, delegation, it all works). Basically N-H went about it differently than all the others: instead of making Outlook wrap around open services, they made the open services conform to Microsoft's bastardized MAPI. I have to say this has owrked better than anything else I've found.
- If competitor has product that is clear market leader, make your product open source. That hurts competitors. Just giving up helps them.
- If competitor has another product that is not directly competing with your product, cut their money flow by developing free alternative.
I think Oracle using number 2 against microsoft.Dyslexics have more fnu.
Interestingly, Oracle already owns (and occasionally half-heartedly markets) a full-blown Exchange competitor: Corporate Time Server, which they acquired along with its developer, a Canadian company called Steltor.
Circa 1999-2001, CTS was really the only full-blown UNIX-based replacement for Exchange available: you installed a client-side plugin in Outlook 2000, and it made the CTS calendar server plus any conforming IMAP server look like an Exchange server to Outlook. It was neat, but a little flaky on the client end. I had great hopes for it when Oracle acquired them, but the net result ended up being that the price tripled and the product went nowhere. I'd be completely psyched to see Oracle either re-launch CTS or open source it in conjunction with Lightning.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
It's a joke, son. Laught.
I have an old 6030i (or something), I use the windows synching software from Nokia (which sucks like a jet engine). This would be one area where open source/open standards could REALLY make progress. Imagine I come within Bluetooth range of a colleages laptop. The laptop sais "I don't know this dude so I'm not giving him access to my Calender, but if he wants to talk to that Exchange/Oracle server on the network, hey what the heck! My phone could then ID itself to the server and access my inbox/calender. It shouldn't be that difficult to make a hardware-independent PDA synching protocol. Just turn the phone into a IMAP client for example, or stream vCal/vCard files. As far as PDA synching is concerned we are really still in the days of setting up your printer in Wordperfect 3 and then doing it again in Lotus123. If OS could come up with a decent proposal/RFC for hardware abstraction, maybe the hardware boys would listen?
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
I've had to live with outlook long enough! oh.. whats that.... I'm timing out but i'm not going to tell you..... and i'm going to freeze so you loose all your email you were just writing.. rubbish hurry up moz and oracle!
"...Is Oracle getting set make an Open Source offering?"
Do you speaking the engrish?
Is Oracle getting set make an Open Office suffering?"
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Oracle is evil. There are maybe three companies that immediately come to my mind when I think of evil: Microsoft, SCO and Oracle. I don't think any Faustian bargains should be contemplated with them.
Both Thunderbird with Sunbird and Evolution are still lagging behind.
Evolution is a wonderfully crafted client, with great UI, but it crashes way too often to be treated seriously. Few days ago i added new account, and didn't noticed that my email provider require SMTP atuthentification. With that option unmarked Evolution crashed whenever i tried to send an email. Bad.
Thunderbird is no better - way it handles multiple accounts (and who doesn't have many accounts?) and SMTP's is unacceptable and really hard to setup.
Those problems must be resolved before we could talk about being seriously competitive.
This Is Not a Sig
"XUL is fully crossplatform and has the same requirements on any system - and with the coming dominance of Firefox, there are a lot of people out there learning XUL programming."
Unfortunately XUL documentation leaves something to be desired. Let alone the rest of the Mozilla infrastructure.
"Oracle is by no means doing this philanthropically. They're doing it because Ellison despises Gates and Ballmer, and he's seen what Firefox has done."
Scene out of Airplane Two, were the passengers line up to smack the histerical woman.
Currently Moz or Thund. cannot manage contacts anywhere near like OLK.
-You can't print 20 to a page
-you don't have the same number of fields.
-phone numbers to auto re-format themselves when you type them in.
-etc.
If this was fixed, I would jump in a heart beat.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
1) Build Mozilla suite
2) Break Mozilla suite apart, creating projects like Firefox, Thunderbird and Sunbird
3) Merge pieces back together again
Does anyone else think this is kind of weird?
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
I've been looking for something that can properly replace Lotus and Outlook. Lotus is owned by IBM, and while Domino runs on Linux, Lotus the client does not. This is one of the only two reasons we're not running Linux throughout our enterprise.
If Lotus wont deliver, maybe Sunbird+Thunderbird will. Another issue are the custom apps of Domino, I guess we'll just have to do without them. I wonder how well a Sunbird+Thunderbird combination will work as clients to Domino 7 running on a Linux machine.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Another company like IBM that supports just enough OSS to give them credibility with the OSS lobby while continuing to reap enormous profits from their proprietary products.
I'm not an OSS fan, but if you believe that OSS is the future, why delay the transition by propping up the old guard because they throw you a few crumbs?
Oracle Calendar really is a nice application, both the server side and client side components. They bought it from Steltor a few years back and have put a lot of effort behind it.
I'm now very interested to see what they're going to come out with. This could make huge inroads in the small business community, where sadly Exchange (thanks to Windows Small Business Server 2003) has been gaining ground..
From my weblog
Oracle's current work on Mozilla Lightning (Thunderbird Mail + Sunbird Calendar ++) should be interesting. Thunderbird is already a fairly decent mail client. Its main flaws from a large company perspective are its lack of calendaring and administration tools (pushing updates, profiles etc). If Oracle can fix these flaws and tie it to the Oracle database backend they should have a product they can sell.
What Oracle will need to do:
1) Fix the flaws and make it "good enough" for most business use
2) Create a connector to the Oracle database backend (something more efficient then IMAP)
3) Promote it in places where exchange is seen as a headache to be avoided: Universities, Small Businesses, Charities, Developing countries.. etc
4) Slowly move up the food chain until it is usable by Oracle's bread and butter clients - Financial institutions and large companies, & governments.
5) Tie the pricing to the customer's current licensing agreement - for example, Customers could get a reduced per CPU Oracle licensing charge if they use Lightning with the Oracle backend.
The trick will be to ensure that Mozilla Lightning supports POP3, IMAP, and Oracle DB Backend seamlessly so that the customer could slowly move up the food chain. Also important will be tools to do the Exchange to Thunderbird/Lightning migration in a background script, RIM(PDA) integration, and Exchange coexistence tools.
Opportunities
Security
One of the perceived weaknesses of Exchange is security. An opportunity will be to create a simple way to manage S/Mime or PGP certificates centrally. Copying and improving a system similar to the one that Lotus Notes uses might be a first step.
Automated Archiving
Financial institutions spend large amounts of money in software to manage archives to meet Sarbanes Oxley and FED regulations. If Oracle were to integrate tools for this then they might have a slight advantage over MS Exchange.
I think a better move is to have Firefox be able to display, and maybe even modify (to a limited extent) the Open Document Format. That would encourage the proliferation of the format and Firefox would be more desirable as a browser inside corporations. Together, they would offer a sibiotic solution.
(Think before you respond!)
I hear people (who generally do .NET development, or are just too internet-challenged to even understand how to configure their outlook client) who say they don't trust systems like linux, or open source products, simply because there is no corporate backing, or 'market share'.
I of coarse thing they are all morons, but too each his own.
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
This is so true.
I use Yahoo mail for all my mail and calendar needs when on the road. They offer a free Intellisync program that syncs all contact and calendar data with Outlook. It also works on Palms.
I also have a Nokia phone. I downloaded "Nokia PC Suite", wich is a free collection of programs for editing images and sounds for the phone, as well as syncing contact and calendar data with, yes, you guessed it, Outlook.
Conctacts and Calendar sync. That's the main reason I use Outlook.
- Sw Usr
Try a blackberry. Wireless calendar synchronization and emails in less than 5 seconds from arrival...
From what I gather, an upcoming goal for Firefox development is to package all the back-end engine stuff into a "XUL Runner" runtime platform that could be installed separate from any one application. Firefox itself would then be just a ~1MB bundle of XUL code, chrome, etc., and Thunderbird, Sunbird, and other apps could be equally lightweight.
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
i haven't really searched the web on this, whether there already exists an open standard, but i think the road block to calendaring is there is no open standard for it.
just like we have imap4/pop3/smtp for emails, we need something for calendar services, for sending out invites, receiving invites, converting invites into an entry in a calendar. otherwise, it's always exchange/outlook, domino/notes, and plugins to these 2 proprietry standards.
plugins to these proprietry standards will not help much. they just extend them.