More Hints at Nintendo's Revolution

The Nintendo press conference touched on aspects of the Nintendo Revolution, but offered no details on what "the" revolution is. No word on the controllers or when the console will be released. One new tantilizing aspect of the console was announced, though: "The console also will have downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo® 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System® (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System® (NES)." No word on pricing, of course, but exciting nonetheless.

Comments

Hah.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bye bye, emu sites.

Re:Hah.

[calibanDNS]

Doubtful. Even if Nintendo were to offer its entire library online, for free (as in beer), there would still be emu sites to "provide backups" of 3rd party titles. Also, if someone doesn't own a Revolution, they presumedly wouldn't be able to take advantage of this and would still want the emulators.

Re:Hah.

[AzraelKans]

More likely "Bye, bye revolution"
They are not seriously thinking they are going to attract every gamer class with that "giveaway" do they? I mean thats the equivalent of giving away mame roms for crying out loud.

To be honest what Nintendo shown of the revolution is more dissapointing than anything I had imagined. I was expecting it to come underpowered compared to the ps3 and the xbox360 but I was hoping Nintendo would pull something to balance that, not Nintendo _literally_ pulling their 20+ year games as a "bonus" for buying it.

Im begining to wonder: seriously whats the point of buying a revolution? it has the same features than a cube plus dvd play (too little too late) and they are waiting a whole year just for that? If you have Nintendo stock I would seriously recommend to sell it before the revolution is out. (Actually before the e3 would've been better)

Re:Hah.

[dhakbar]

giveaway?

Where has Nintendo stated that they plan on giving away games?

Re:Hah.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, Azzy. It's always comforting to know that we can count on you to take the most short-sighted, uninformed views on Nintendo and expound on them so consistently. If only other things in life were such sure bets in this crazy modern world.

Financial advice noted. Thanks again!

Re:Hah.

[PhoenixFlare]

They are not seriously thinking they are going to attract every gamer class with that "giveaway" do they? I mean thats the equivalent of giving away mame roms for crying out loud.

Im begining to wonder: seriously whats the point of buying a revolution? it has the same features than a cube plus dvd play (too little too late) and they are waiting a whole year just for that?

Nice attempt at a troll/act of stupidity. It's quite obvious you haven't even read the article, much less looked at anything else about the Revolution.

If you'll take an anonymous poster's pondering as fact that easily, i've got a bridge to sell you.

Re:Hah.

[AzraelKans]

Well since you are not posting anonymously (and I have nothing better to do right this instant) Ill answer. Yes I did looked at the article, actually (just like everyone else) Ive been reading everything about e3 all day. I haven caught at Nintendo press conference video though. But I did read the article that mentioned the "games download" as the "secret weapon" so .. what are you talking about? what anonymous poster comment? Its what it says right there in the freaking article. (and I did said "giveaway" with quotations, I know Is not a giveaway)

And seriously guys, I understand you like Nintendo but why do you have to bow at every piece of crap they release or be considered a troll around here?

I mean this is what you expected from a next gen 2006 console from Nintendo? downloading old games? you are willing to shell out hundreds of bucks for that?

Imo, maybe you guys are the ones buying nice looking bridges close to the Manhattan area. Probably you are not aware of it, but you should.

Peace.

Re:Hah.

[PhoenixFlare]

But I did read the article that mentioned the "games download" as the "secret weapon" so .. what are you talking about? what anonymous poster comment?

It's not an article, it's not a transcript, it's not an exhaustive fact sheet, it's a press release. Don't let that stop you from latching onto one item and using it to condem the whole thing, though.

(and I did said "giveaway" with quotations, I know Is not a giveaway

If you do, then I have to wonder why you posted in the first place. Again, Nintendo is notoriously secretive with information, and one item from a press release on the first day of E3 is hardly the end-all-be-all.

And seriously guys, I understand you like Nintendo but why do you have to bow at every piece of crap they release or be considered a troll around here?

Maybe because you and people like you label things as a "piece of crap" without even having first-hand experience with it, and then act offended when (horrors!) everyone else doesn't agree with you.

I mean this is what you expected from a next gen 2006 console from Nintendo? downloading old games? you are willing to shell out hundreds of bucks for that?

Along with everything else the console will be able to do, I would be quite satisfied.

good luck

[Reignking]

Nintendo can't even keep their web site up now, and they're going to offere downloadable content?

Re:good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. Does someone have a torrent of their website?

Re:good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

www.nintendo.com gives me a download for
application/octet-stream

WTF?

Re:good luck

[Reignking]

I think that MS has an undocumented feature in IE -- they've programmed it to DDOS nintendo.com when they announce new products at e3 :)

Re:good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm by making use of other servers perhaps? It's really not that hard.

Re:good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

MS also has an undocumented in Opera 7.54 on OS X too, it seems.

I'm all for MS-bashing, but only if it's applicable. ;-)

Re:good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm having problems on E3's site as well.

You would think that they would have provided the movies in a .torrent or something. Sure, the developers may not want the movies to be "downloadable", but we all know that that isn't going to stop anyone.

This would have been the absolute *perfect* application of a distributred downloading software like Torrent.

Re:good luck

[HyperChicken]

No wonder Nintendo.com went down, it's running a Gamecube Web Server!!! http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=nintendo. com

(Yeah, yeah, Solaris OS... Blah blah blah)

Re:good luck

[HyperChicken]

Yeah, the only problem with BitTorrent is it's speed are horrible. ESPECIALLY for things like this where you get a sudden wave of people.

Re:good luck

[Masami Eiri]

Actually.. its the opposite. BT's speed increases with more users.
Yes, at first it'd be slower, but if they stick with it for a bit, it'll speed up exponentially.

Re:good luck

[HyperChicken]

Yes, towards the end, it'll get faster. But the majority of the download is going to be slow.

Re:good luck

[justforaday]

Pssst. Try opening ports 6881-6889 on your router, then try saying that BitTorrent has horrible speeds...

Re:good luck

[FlopEJoe]

Hey... since the revolution will not be televised, maybe it won't show up on web pages, too?

Re:good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you're getting it... once the torrent server has served up one full copy of the file, it's distributed in little chunks to lots of people who in turn distribute the file. If 200 people were getting the file, nobody has a full copy but now everybody is uploading to everybody else. In the above scenario, the first 5% of a file should take the normal amount of time to recieve, with the second 5% being twice as fast, the 3rd and 4th 5% being twice as fast as that, etc.

In other words, Torrents always go faster than normal slashdotted downloads. Now, whether or not that first 5% is really, really slow is irrelevant, as under normal download conditions the entire file would (and used to) take bloody forever.

In other other words, always use bittorrent.

Re:good luck

[masklinn]

No it won't, a torrent download is only slow at the beginning, when the initial server tries to shell out the first few copies.

Then, as you start having more data seeded from peers the global transfert speed will increase exponentially with the increase of the network size (because every new peer has more nodes to get data from than the previous one).

Now of course i don't know what you call "slow", and your own datarate might not be really impressive, but as far as global transfert speed go, you need some big server pipes to beat a popular BT network

Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Fred Or Alive]

Jesus christ, how many times are they going to rerelease games. I don't mind "All Stars" type of things, but the way Nintendo rerelease games about 2,000,000 times seems to take the bloody biscuit.

Not that I'm actually going to by them of course, but I can still rant about them.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Fred Or Alive]

Damn, there goes my karma. I should remember that everyone else on Slashdot are goddamn Nintendo fanboys. ;-)

I was going to add that the Revolution does look the nicest of the new consoles. The Xbox360 is presentable, the PS3 is WTF?, but the Revoultion looks sweet.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Xbox 360 looks like something from Fisher-Price, the PS3 looks like an overpriced CD player, and the Nintendo Revolution looks like a smaller first-gen PS2... sort of. That, or three DVD boxes glued together. ;-)

If KillZone is as impressive as the video we've seen, I'm getting a PS3.

But I'm getting a Nintendo anyway: Zelda, Metroid and all-around great Nintendo games (Pikmin, etc).

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

If it is only first party titles this is an interesting way of giving people free access to a massive library of content (and also introducing the more casual gamer to Nintendo's massive history). On the other hand, if third party publishers give Nintendo the right to release their old content this way it would be enough reason for me to buy the system.

I don't know about anyone else, but being able to play the excelent SNES RPG's (and all other still great content that was released) in itself is worth the ticket price.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Jelster]

Have to agree here, what the hell was Sony thinking with that design? I've even looked back at the pictures in the alst 24 hours thinking that maybe I'm just seeing it the wrong way, it looks like a ATM for christ's sake! Not having seen a 360 first hand I'd have to say its design is much nicer but is it a lot smaller than the original xbox, damn that thing was beastly. :) But the Revolution. Wow, thats nice. good scope for colours. probably real easy for custom spray jobs seeing as there are no buttons and trays to worry about. Minimalist and functional. Just my opinion on the three new systems, does anyone like the PS3 design over the 360/Rev and if so what is it you like?

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[llevity]

For what it's worth, I agree with your sentiment. While being able to play the old Nintendo games on my newer systes was a fun novelty at first, it's gotten to the point where I want something NEW. I still have my old systems, so if I really want to play Super Mario Bros again, I'll hook it up and play it. Its not that I dislike Nintendo, in fact, quite the opposite. I just feel somewhat cheated that they waste their time on porting old games to new systems, instead of developing new games. I know, ports are quicker, and all, but...

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[-kertrats-]

I prefer the PS3 over 360 because of the simplicity of design. 360 with the PC-like design and buttons and whatnots all over the machine makes my eyes hurt. PS3 is simple and efficient, and has everything you need. Nintendo is still the winner, however.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[cowscows]

While the PS3 doesn't look like a game system all that much, just as a plain 'ol aesthetic object, I like it better than the new Xbox. When the first images of the xbox360s front leaked out, they looked to me like someone had seen it, and then done a quick mock up of it in illustrator or something. It just looked amateurish. But the actual console looks just like it.

It's actually typical MS design. They try a lot of neat things, but they either forget or screw up that last bit of polish. Of course, until I see one firsthand, I'll reserve any final judgement on any of the three systems. First impressions of the Revolution; It's nice enough, but not exciting or compelling. *shrug*

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Jelster]

I think I understand why the PS3 design doesn't sit well with me. They've designed the damn thing so it has to sit on the top of any under TV equipment. There's going to be no stacking this baby under the DVD, AMP and Decoder box. Then again I guess the same could be said for the ultra small Revolution box. :)

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[badasscat]

does anyone like the PS3 design over the 360/Rev

I do.

and if so what is it you like?

My take on the three system designs:

* Xbox 360 - overdesigned. Clearly trying way too hard to project some sort of coherent idea (the whole "inhale" motif). Form is not following function. There's no obvious reason for it to look the way it does, and the end result is that its curves look oddly out of place, the power button looks too large, and the whole system just generally looks a little bit wonky.

* Revolution - underdesigned. First, keeping in mind that Iwata said this is not the final design (meaning the whole point could be moot), to me this system looks like a car stereo, or an external CD-ROM drive. It is frankly boring - it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think up a thin black box. Some people like how minimalist it is, but I think it's a mistake - people will stick it on top of whatever stack of something they've already got and forget about it. And you don't want people forgetting about your company's game console.

* PlayStation 3 - Just right. It's graceful and almost elegant. It stands out without being gaudy (like the Xbox 360). For some, the curves might take some getting used to, but being convex they don't look as self-conscious and randomly-applied as the Xbox 360's curves. They make the system look like it's saying "look how powerful I am, I am frankly bulging with power!" That's probably not true, but it still comes off looking tasteful yet still unlike anything else you'll have sitting in your A/V rack. The design of the system projects an image but it also does not look like that's its sole purpose. On the other hand, it doesn't look like somebody simply stumbled on a surplus supply of external drive casings and stuffed a console inside. You can tell some thought went into this design.

I ultimately do think console designs matter, in as much as they help shape public perception of a system - just look at what happened to the Xbox in Japan. Reactions to these new designs seem sort of all over the place, but my guess is the Xbox 360 is still going to have a tough time in Japan on looks and size (it's still pretty big, and despite being designed partly in Japan it does not have a Japanese look and feel). The PS3 will appeal to consumers worldwide, though maybe some will need to get used to it more than others. The Revolution is too nondescript even for the Japanese, who value size but also power - and nothing about the Revolution's design suggests it's in the same class as the other two systems.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong... but I do think the PS3 is quite a bit better-looking than the other two systems from an aesthetic design standpoint. The Revolution is in the middle simply because it's inoffensive, and the Xbox 360 is, frankly, offensive.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[jmcneill]

I think I understand why the PS3 design doesn't sit well with me. They've designed the damn thing so it has to sit on the top of any under TV equipment. There's going to be no stacking this baby under the DVD, AMP and Decoder box.

With the heat that this thing will probably produce, it might be a conscious decision on Sony's part to design it in a way so nobody can stack objects on top of it.

Having said that, it sure would be nice if all of these systems were stackable -- I've got a handful of systems neat my TV (GCN, XBox, PS2, SNES) as well as a VCR, DVD player, and a few digital cable boxes. There's no hope of stacking any of these, as they're all radically different shapes and sizes.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like the revolution design, the simplicity reminds of the JAP and EUR SNES. Tokyo will love it. Think black "invisible" box and wireless controlers: it's you, the gamepad and the TV. The controlers will be what will make or brake this systems design and if history is an indication it will be a blast.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[badasscat]

I should add one more thing to my post - you know, what you see online, especially at tech sites, is often a very male-centric view of things. I'll just tell you what my wife said when she saw the PlayStation 3:

"I feel sorry for Microsoft's designers."

That was her reaction. I think Sony's hit the mark with both men and women with the PS3, whereas MS looks like that's what they were trying desperately to do but they're a bit short of a bullseye. So far, most of the people I see praising the Xbox 360 design are men. (I said "most", not "all".)

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

Xbox 360 - overdesigned.
Agreed, and I'd add that it looks a bit retro. Not 1980s, but 2001/2. With the consoles coming out when they did, they missed the blobthing movement in design. Why is MS looking back to it for inspiration?

Revolution - underdesigned.
I'm not sure it's worth getting into without seeing the controllers, and given that it's 13 months until this actually hits the shelves. If the controllers are *perfect*, then the understated design won't matter to anyone. I do expect the console case design to change. I'd ditch the stand and embed some standing knobs on the side/bottom. I do worry that we'll find out we need a number of attachments and upgrades, though, to compensate for the size.

* PlayStation 3 - Just right.
Have to disagree. It looks like an old telephone answering machine. I appreciate the sleekness, but the shape doesn't work.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

On the bright side it looks like you may be able to replace both the SNES and the Gamecube with the Revolution. That should save you some space. And if the PS3 backwards compatibility is perfect (PS2 had problems with about 2 dozen PS1 games) you should be able to simply swap out the PS3 for the PS2.

All 3 of the new systems will support DVD playback so just choose the one that has the interface you like best for playing DVD's and use it instead.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[jkeyes]

If by port you mean designing an emulator so then all the games work and that they've already made a NES and N64 emulator for gamecube so they could probably use it on Revolution. Then yes that sure is a lot of work porting. I mean designing a SNES emulator for Revolution in less than what? 11 months? sure will be a challenge. Infact I imagine they'll delay the next Zelda because all the Nintendo programmers will be busy designing SUCH a complicated emulator or they'll steal ZSNES's code.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[jkeyes]

Also just to add a fun second reply, if you meant Gameboy then again they could have designed an emulator I think the only games they ported was Mario Advance series games which have sold quite well.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Jelster]

* Revolution - underdesigned. First, keeping in mind that Iwata said this is not the final design (meaning the whole point could be moot), to me this system looks like a car stereo, or an external CD-ROM drive. It is frankly boring - it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think up a thin black box. Some people like how minimalist it is, but I think it's a mistake - people will stick it on top of whatever stack of something they've already got and forget about it. And you don't want people forgetting about your company's game console.

I'm not sure I agree there, the point I would hope they are trying to get across is that the console is NOT the important factor. Hell when you think Nintendo do you think of the games or the console? Both Sony and MS are playing up on the increase in power and as pointed out in your comments on the PS3 such images are also given in the shape of the console design. Nintendo however have said many times the power is irrelivant, the gaming is more important. I think they want this non entity sitting there, they want people to buy into their software (lets face it Nintendo are total crap at marketing ANYTHING compared to Sony and MS). I'll just conduct a wife test here (she's total anti gaming so no fanboy influence here).... she says Xbox is tacky and common looking, PS3 looks very stylish and Revolution is nice too. So I guess that does kind of tally with your findings too. :)

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[cableshaft]

I guess you're right. I mean, the first thing I thought of when I saw it was "George Foremen Grill!" so since it looks like a kitchen appliance, and all women spend all their time in the kitchen, then OF COURSE they're going to love the kitchen appliance design of the PS3.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[AzraelKans]

Just for the record Im not a Fanboy and I agree with your opinion, unfortunately those two are mutually inclusive here in slashdot.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[rmccann]

Now just imagine turning the Revolution around a seeing a huge big Pikachu grinning back at you!

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, ZSNES code, which is writen in ix86 assembly.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fine then, SNES9x happy now?

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[rAiNsT0rm]

umm, you seem to be forgetting THEY DESIGNED THE ORIGINAL SYSTEMS! Emulation takes no time at all when you have all the design docs and software at your disposal... now for three high school/college kids to reverse engineer and develop an emu takes 11 months, not for the company that designed it originally. Do you think they don't already have perfect emu's for developers?

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[techstar25]

I think it became clear to Nintendo that one of the big reasons why the PS2 sold so much was because of the backwards compatibility. It looks like Nintendo took a look at their catalog of games, and realized that they have a back catalog that puts Sony to shame. Then they realized that people would pay a small fee to play those older games, wow another source of revenue. It's about time Nintendo flexed some of that software catalog muscle. Hopefully the Revolution will be back-back-back-backwards compatible.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah see I had nifty .sarcasm. ,/sarcasm, tags. Seems like some people need them. That's why the post got +3 funny and not -3 offtopic. I'm glad to see that you failed life.

Re:Nintendo: King of recycling.

[masklinn]

Now if Revolution even had cardridge ports for the legacy games you DO own...

Wonderings

[Agilus]

I wonder what the limits of this download service will be?

It would be awesome if you could download some of these games if you had purchased them previously (NES and SNES games), but I doubt they'd offer that service. It would be too much of a pain to implement.

Also, I wonder if they'll ever let you download Gamecube and Revolution games? I figure the answer to that is "no" because the games are so big. Bandwidth would be a problem, as downloading a full game would take -forever. Also, the size constraints on the onboard flash RAM (512 MB) would be problematic for this. However, if they make available old N64 games, that space might fill up pretty quick anyway.... However, there's always the possibility of a hard drive peripheral :)

Re:Wonderings

[SetupWeasel]

Super Mario Sunshine was a specific example of a game that could be downloaded.

Re:Wonderings

[Jelster]

I'd probably guess that they would have some sort of account login similar to steam and allow the downloads based off of that. Anything from N64 back is easily downloaded on any broadband connection. Gamecube and Rev games though do seem a bit out of reach for at least a few more years.

Re:Wonderings

[Txiasaeia]

Typical DSL connexion (1500) can download 1GB in 1.5 hours, and a typical gamecube game is what, around 1.5 GBs, so I wouldn't call this completely out of reach.

Re:Wonderings

[Jelster]

Not out of reach but if there is no storage (unlikely out of the box given the announced size of the unit), you'll be losing that download on power down. So thats up to 1.5 hours waiting each time you want to play a gc game. Far easier in my mind to grab that 16/32 mbyte N64 game in a few minutes each time you want to play it and just store the necessary save files on the internal memory. Perhaps the whole thing will centre around a seperate bluetooth harddrive attachement, they've stated the DVD playback will be used with an addon.

Re:Wonderings

[Txiasaeia]

"...they've stated the DVD playback will be used with an addon."

Do you have a linkie for this? Sad if it's true...

Re:Wonderings

[konttori]

Not that surprising. That way Nintendo doesn't have to pay the DVD licenses. That's like 20$ saving in the total cost of the product.

Re:Wonderings

[grumpyman]

Prolly no limit but the service I guess would require your credit card number? Moreover making the old classics available by some mean is better than to send out lawyers letter and shut down emu sites. At least there's some way to get it, instead of no way.

Re:Wonderings

[Morgon]

From what I've heard, the system RAM will be expandable via flash cards (by the time the system comes out, I'm assuming 1 Gig flash won't be as expensive as the system itself)

As for the downloads, you can almost bet your ass (twice!) that they won't be free, save for maybe a 'bait' game, special two-for-one (etc.) deals, or product tie-ins (buy Mario Kart Revolution and get the SNES download for free)... but really, I think (hope?) they've learned their lesson during their $20 Game boy rehashes, especially since it'd be fairly tough to sell those particular games at anywhere near that cost....

What would you pay? $1? $5? I couldn't see them going for any higher than that, but I guess we'll see in a year!

Re:Wonderings

[Morgon]

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3live.html

Check the re-feed.. it's in there in the middle somewhere.

Re:Wonderings

[AvitarX]

I purchased a 1 Gig USB flash for 70 USD a 6+ months ago. I dream that the system is less then that but not likley.

As for game pricing I bet they are 5-10 USD each.

I imagine there are maybe a half dozen games (big maybe, more likly 3) I would buy at that price, but for a dollor a pop I would certainly not buy 15-30. there just arn't that many games I would want.

This is the NES, I would expect the SNES games to be 5-15 or even 20 and the N64 to be about the same. The GC games would probably be 20-30 each.

But I could just be completly wrong. I just can't see how they could sell 5 times more $1.00 games then $5.00 games.

Of cousre subscription with rotating availability could work too (but it didn't for Sega).

Re:Wonderings

[MaverickUW]

Actually, on Nintendo's website, it does say that this system will finally have the built in SD adaptor they've been talking about doing for ages.

Re:Wonderings

[Morgon]

I think it also depends on what kind of content we're talking about.

There were absolutely TONS of NES games in its lifetime. Are they only selling Nintendo first-party games? Nintendo-published games? ... or the whole library?

I've got a non-working NES, with some games I really enjoyed playing - 'Shingen The Ruler' comes immediately to mind. Then on SNES we have the absolutely obvious Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana.

If these are available for download, then damn right I'd whip out some plastic and pay a couple of bucks to play (AND KEEP - NOT RENT) them. Same with countless other titles - we're talking nearly 2000 titles for just NES and SNES alone. Then we've got another.. uh.. 300? 400? for the N64 (of which maybe 25 are worth any amount of money, sadly).

Perhaps they will be scaled ($5 average, deviating up and down for the popularity/quality), and perhaps they'll all be flat-rate. But you'd be surprised, you say you wouldn't buy 30 games for $1 a piece, I'm willing to bet you'd find plenty of gamers who would.

Re:Wonderings

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly.

The Xbox used the DVD remote/playback dongle pack as an excuse not to pay the licensing fees to the DVD Consortium for every console that was sold. It was the smart thing to do, given that they are not part of the DVD Consortium like Sony is.

Next gen, things change for MS. Sony will continue to include DVD playback in as a freebie, to no loss of their own. MS will start including DVD playback by default as part of their whole Xbox 360-as-HTPC gimmick, and it will cost them money out of pocket with each system shipped. Nintendo will follow MS's excellent example from this generation, and will provide a separate DVD movie playback enabler (either themselves or by way of a third-party - which would be very cool if upgradeable modules from other manufacturers were ever made available to provide newer features).

In any case, as someone who has never wanted to use any of my game consoles for watching DVD movies, I applaud this decision on Nintendo's part. I still see internal DVD playback as a kind of red herring that Sony's been using on their features list, and now MS has started doing it too, after having the perfect approach with the Xbox.

Re:Wonderings

[Anonymous Coward]

"As for the downloads, you can almost bet your ass (twice!) that they won't be free, save for maybe a 'bait' game, special two-for-one (etc.) deals, or product tie-ins (buy Mario Kart Revolution and get the SNES download for free)... but really, I think (hope?) they've learned their lesson during their $20 Game boy rehashes, especially since it'd be fairly tough to sell those particular games at anywhere near that cost...."

What lesson would that be? Most of those titles sold very well at that price, and like with all games, the prices on all of these titles eventually went down at some retailers. Besides, the selling feature of these games was that they were near-perfect ports, in portable form. Several of these games stole the highest spots in the weekly game charts in Japan immediately following launch, topping out even brand new PS2 games at the time.

Don't get me wrong. To me as a shopper, free is better than cheap, and cheap is better than expensive, but if Nintendo can easily get $20 for individual classics when other companies can only occasionally get $20 for _enhanced_ versions of their games, the last thing I can do is blame them. It only speaks to the benefit of being endlessly vigilant in defending your IP, something a lot of us here would definitely have problems with accepting as fact, no less understanding.

Anyway, in addition to letting me play all the classics I already got to play back in the day without dusting off the actual systems, I think Revolution presents an excellent opportunity for some older games that we outside of Japan never got to see on Nintendo systems. Maybe we'll see the likes of Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean, Tenchi Souzou, Tsumi to Batsu, the original Bangaiou, etc.

Re:Wonderings

[AvitarX]

Fair enough,

I just think that they could make more money with a higher price. The carts sell for well over that used right now. Anything up to $5.00 is probably cheap enough to be impulsable for people willing to pay for broad band at least, and the SNES/N64 systems probably have a lot of games that would do real well beyond impulse buys.

I would love to have access to a bunch of shmups from before the systems could kick out so much shit they are impossible, but that would be from 3rd parties only.

If they sold sets of games they could throw in a lot of garbage and have a few key titles and sell for more while keeping cost/game low (but I hope not for their sake, people hate that).

Some of the Konomi incredibly dull turn based games really appeal to me too.

Re:Wonderings

[Jelster]

Right now Nintendo probably make $0 out of NES and SNES and to some extend N64 titles. The second hand market doesn't benefit them at all either. Now what would suit them and probably many many games players (both young and old) is a free or extremely cheap back catalogue at their finger tips. Would you rather go to blockbuster and pay $5-10 for a rental game for a few nights or pay $5 and get a couple N64 classics which you'll then own for the lifetime of the system. Of course this is all speculation (Nintendo runs on that doesn't it?), I don't however think $5 is a good line to draw for each title and nobody likes the 5game (1 cool 4 shite) packs!

Re:Wonderings

[Lehk228]

how about for free? free NES and SNES games would easily drive sales of the revolution past PS3 and the 360. bandwidth is cheap hell include a disc witht he system containing every nintendo first party game, ever. cost to nintendo:pennies jump in sales of the system: huge.

Re:Wonderings

[Anonymous Coward]

heh heh heh, they probably won't compare to grh.se!

Re:Wonderings

[Anonymous Coward]

"However, if they make available old N64 games, that space might fill up pretty quick anyway"

They may use a streaming technology. You sign up to pay 10 or so dollars per month, and then have every nintendo game at your fingertips. since the rom streams to you, you don't need it to be physically there. Yeah, it screams of asshole DRM practices, but think about it. Isn't that torrent of 1000 nes games you just downloaded worth 10 dollars per month, especially since you likely didn't own nearly 1000 (and probably more like 6-7)

Of course, I just took a field trip to munch on crayons, so whatever.

Hm.

[Snowspinner]

Online Smash Bros and a launch library consisting of all GC games as well as large swaths of the N64, SNES, and NES?

I could see this working well for Nintendo. It continues with their trend of fighting the console wars on their own terms. Not bad.

Re:Hm.

[porcupine8]

No kidding. Right now, I only own an SNES. I've been planning to get a gamecube + GBA adaptor mainly b/c of all the older games being rereleased for GBA plus a few gamecube games. I was already planning to wait til the Revolution came out so that the gamecube price would drop, but now I still might wait - for the Revolution. The deciding factor will be whether or not I can get Tetris Attack for it.

Re:Hm.

[Anonymous Coward]

I really like Tetris Worlds.

If you've played it, which do you think it better?

Re:Hm.

[porcupine8]

I've never played tetris worlds, but it would have to be pretty damn good to beat tetris attack. TA is easily the most addicting puzzle game I've ever played - I had an entire floor of my dorm hooked on it at one point, and after I play it I keep seeing it (and actually playing) when I close my eyes. There's no way I'm getting rid of my SNES til it's available on a newer platform.

No hints, here's the console...

[NightWulf]

Pictures of the console
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/615/615030/imgs _1.html

Pictures of the Zelda trailer
http://cube.ign.com/articles/615/615045p1.html

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[BusterB]

The best part is how it can eject CDs at high speed and cause them to fly through the air. Or maybe this is the 3d projection system hinted at earlier.

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[HoneyBunchesOfGoats]

Here's a question. If those rendered pictures are real, and the Revolution really does have a slot-loading optical disc drive, how will one be able to load Gamecube discs, since Nintendo has stated that Revolution will be backwards-compatible with GCN?

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[barawn]

Slot load could easily accept both discs. Just need to have some sort of mechanism that tells whether or not you're inserting a mini-DVD or a normal DVD. Something like a pair of arms that pushes apart when you push in a DVD, and triggers a small switch if it pushes open enough that it's a real DVD. If not, it's a mini-DVD, and it knows the right distances for each.

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[gabebear]

mini-CDs work fine in slot loading drives. I've been using mini-CDRs in my slot loading iMac for years without any problems.

I know some slot loading mechanisms have problems, but nintendo designs their own drives.

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[Jacius]

Well, they have to do that to compete with the PSP's karate-chop, er, disc-toss action. I imagine projectile discs will become a standard feature on new game systems. It really makes it more immersive when the game throws stuff at you when you lose.

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[lowid (24) _________]

Introducing the Nintendo Revolution, available in Black, Platinum, White, Red, and.... Vomit?

Re:No hints, here's the console...

[Soul-Burn666]

Hey! Don't give Hideo Kojima any ideas.

I hope that nintendo didnt team up with Phantom

[chadamir]

I wonder what major news service will be the first to call vaporware? I'm sure nintendo has something, but the conference was a total cock tease, and im left feeling blue balled. Oh nintendo, what happened to us? I thought we had something special. I'd tell you my secrets and you'd tell me yours. I never even bought anything that wasn't nintendo approved. Love does not alter when alteration finds, but you must show me the alterations my love!

Re:I hope that nintendo didnt team up with Phantom

[chrismcdirty]

As far as I remember, Nintendo was always a tease at any press conference. They never really show you what's going on, or tell you what's going on before hand. The perfect example being last year when they showed the new Zelda trailer with no warning. Then they gave no actual release date or details of the gameplay. Nintendo is always a tease.

Fucking nintendo!

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no idea how you're ruining this generation's teenagers. I really hope there are 60 gig sd drives and that at least you can put roms on it. If emulation for older systems is available, then I'll have to sell my organs in some sudamerican black market to pay for all the games...

Indie Developers

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:

Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game "masterpieces" as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea.

IIRC, each dev kit is at least $25k or more. The average indie/individual developer has nowhere near that amount of funds to sink. So, does this mean that Nintendo will somehow provide a way for indie developers to get around that barrier?

Re:Indie Developers

[justforaday]

So, does this mean that Nintendo will somehow provide a way for indie developers to get around that barrier?

Nintendo Financial Services?

Re:Indie Developers

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops, meant to say that average dev kits for other systems are $25k or more.

Re:Indie Developers

[jonwil]

I think that if the companies made the devkits cheaper and easier to get, it would be a win-win situation.

I especially think this would work for the Gameboy Advance where the barriers to entry are much smaller than with other consoles (since you dont need full 3D everything etc).

There are already great homebrew devkits for the Gameboy Advance (with pretty much all the hardware known and with flashcarts used to play the games on the real hardware)

Nintendo could make the GBA devkit more accessable and yet still maintain the control over the platform that they have had since the days of the original B&W GameBoy by continuing their "seal of quality" program where only nintendo approved games could be released for the platform.
The net result would be more games for the Gameboy Advance and possibly better games (especially if it results in more games that arent just remakes of existing games)

Hobbiest Development???

[MBCook]

There are pictures and some facts here. The thing that is the most interesting is the last fact:

Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game "masterpieces" as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea.

Does this mean that Nintendo will let us mess with it? I would love to be able to program it. Not only would that increase sales, it would foster talent and good will towards Nintendo. Considering how large the GB/GBA development community is, I would think that would be a good thing. Also, the devices that people use to develop for the GBA Nintendo is always fighting because they can be used for piracy. But if you could develop from the get-go (or maybe with a $50 or $100 kit) people wouldn't need to reverse engineer things to run their own code.

Will Nintendo do it? I kinda doubt it, but I would really love it if they did.

Either way, if it makes it easier to make good games without needing huge teams of programmers to endlessly tinker to get decent performace, it could still be a very good thing.

On a side note though, the Zelda screens don't look as good as many of the PS3/X360 screens. Let's hope there is better to come (based on how much better the GC got though, it should still be great).

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[Anonymous Coward]

>On a side note though, the Zelda screens don't look as good as many of the PS3/X360 screens. Let's hope there is better to come (based on how much better the GC got though, it should still be great).

Last time I checked, those Zelda screenshots were from the GameCube...

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[MBCook]

I just checked too. You're right. Stupid mistake.

They did look oftly "this generation".

I must need more caffine.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[|/|/|||]

The Zelda game is for GC, not next-gen.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[buffer-overflowed]

The Zelda screens are for the Zelda coming out this year on the Gamecube....

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[owyn999]

And further from what I read at IGN it was also played from a DS Video Disc... Reggie pulled it out and did the DADADADAAAAAA (Zelda object noise)

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[MilenCent]

The independent developers thing is the most interesting thing I've heard about any of the consoles in this generation. (I wonder if it weren't a direct response to Greg Costikiyan's comments about Iwata's speech at GDC....)

Shame it'll probably not be homebrew-level development, but more along the lines of the requirements to join the development programs already in place (and viewable at warioworld.com.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[Morgon]

If they REALLY want to tweak MS' nipples (uh, in a bad way, that is) - what they SHOULD do is allow homebrew development, with the ability to sell your work on their online service.

It'd certainly be rare to pay anything more than a nickel for the vast majority of the drivel that would be produced, but hell, if I could sell some game for 5 cents to even just a thousand people..
Well that just gives me enough money to go buy a game!

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[Anonymous Coward]

uhhh.....the zelda game is for GC...sorry to be all nerdy about it.. *snort*

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[XxtraLarGe]

Does this mean that Nintendo will let us mess with it? I would love to be able to program it. Not only would that increase sales, it would foster talent and good will towards Nintendo.

Now that would be REVOLUTIONary! A console that not merely allowed but enabled home-brew/shareware development out of the box. I know there are homebrew developers for Dreamcast, and that Sony had Net Yaroze, but those were both extremely niche things.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[Anonymous Coward]

The independent developers thing is the most interesting thing I've heard about any of the consoles in this generation.

I heard some spurts in the XBox360-media frenzy about them (the Xbox360 team) wanting people to create 'with' them, as they put it.

I read that as being able to make mods for content on the 360.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[Jacius]

My guess at the "revolution" is that Nintendo will be encouraging a shift away from the "Hollywoodisation" of the games market that we've been seeing. If you want to spend a couple billion dollars developing a game, knock yourself out, burn out your employees, price it at $60 per unit, etc. But, hopefully, you won't have to.

While I'd be piss-my-pants excited if they were going to make it easy for hobbyists like you and me to get their hands dirty (so to speak), I'm not holding my breath. More like, it will be a substantial reducement in the investment required, but it will still be an investment. You won't have to have a huge publishing company to get your game out there, but still have to spend perhaps a couple tens of thousands of dollars. This would require a new distribution method, though, since pressing, packaging, and shipping millions of units costs a lot of cash. With the Rev being online-capable, downloading from the 'net would be the obvious choice.

Now, the only way consumers would buy into this plan would be if these homebrew, non-production-quality games were either much cheaper than the big-budget games, or had absolutely incredible gameplay (or both). Nobody would buy a game which looks like crap (relatively speaking) unless it was cheap or they heard it was fun.

I hope we'll be seeing some more innovative games coming out, since the financial risk of a flop would not be so catastrophic. EA, for example, would never put the money into a game unless they knew for a fact that it would sell well, which means making it almost exactly like a game which has sold well in the past.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, I'd just be happy if you could write for it in something other than C++.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[earthbound kid]

I watched the stream live. After they showed the trailer, a Japanese game director or whatever came out and announced that all the press people would get a DS card with the trailer on it as a movie in their press kits. It's just a goodie for the press, that's all.

Re:Hobbiest Development???

[KillShill]

since when does anyone have to ask the manufacturer of hardware they own, permission to program it?

it IS a brave new world indeed.

Viva la Revolution!

[rAiNsT0rm]

How nice is this thing?!?, I'm so totally not a big N fanboy, but quickly turning into one. You can have your PS3 and Xbox multi-processor multi-hundred dollar systems that are mainly media systems, I want a game console and so far Nintendo is hitting the mark.

Downloadable content is phenomenal!!! I can play old favorites quickly and easily with no emulation woes, I just hope the payment system is similar to iTunes. A buck to have Excitebike, Zelda, FF would be amazing... I'd probably go up to $5-10 for newer stuff but not much over that.

I just want to see the controller, it is said to be the true revolution here and I'm sure it will be. This is what was needed in gaming, a return to the core focus. Sony and MS are missing out IMO, the Revolution is my only hope for gaming's future without juvenile "mature" titles like GTA and the like.

Re:Viva la Revolution!

[king wilson]

Juvenile??!? So If I'm really into GTA, are you calling me Juvenile as well? You Asshole!

You aught to have your freakin head caved in with a basbeall bat. Then run over by a hooker.......

Re:Viva la Revolution!

[rAiNsT0rm]

Yep.

How about downloadable CURRENT games?

[joshsisk]

Have they mentioned the idea of letting 3rd-party companies offer current games for download?

True, most current games would be too large, but it would be quite awesome if you could buy simple, independently developed (but N-approved) games via the same method that the back catalog games will be downloaded...

It would be really interesting if smaller companies could have a direct distribution route for "smaller" (but still innovative gameplay-wise) games.

Wow...

[dmayle]

What with Microsoft finally coming through on the Xbox backwards compatibility, and now this, it's pretty obvious that all three of the console makers finally get it.

The size of a game library can be just as important as the number of quality games. Consumers like choice. Just like with music, so it is with videogames. This is something that Nintendo failed to address with the Nintendo64 and the Gamecube. It's almost painful to see how well they get it when it comes to the portable market (GameBoy and family), but not their home consoles.

I, for one, am hoping they do the right thing, and make the library available for free. While they'll miss out on some revenues of old games, they'll have a guaranteed sell for the Revolution (and Nintendo typically sells it's hardware at break-even or profit), and a footstep into future sales. Combine this with sales of Gamecube games that will also work in the Revolution, and Nintendo could see itself launched into the forefront of the three console makers.

Interestingly enough, it's mostly thanks to companies like Netflix and Amazon that these companies are beginning to understand. They've made such a profitable market out of niche sales, that big business is being forced to recognize the power that is the little guy, instead of just pandering to hit sales. In the business world, they're calling this "The Long Tail", and it's turning out to be huge money. (So much so, that business executives everywhere are sitting up and taking notice.) There are articles in The Economist and Wired. The traditional thinking has been that 80% of revenues typically comes from 20% of the titles, and it's been true for a long time. However, in the internet world, where you're not limited by shelf space, and you can aggregate diverse markets, the other 80% of titles (niche titles) can bring in as much money as the most popular 20%.

Nintendo has always excelled at putting out hits (Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Pokemon, etc.), which is why I think they've typically ignored this facet of business, but I think that even they may be starting to take notice. Here's hoping so :-)

Re:Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

"What with Microsoft finally coming through on the Xbox backwards compatibility"

Huh?

Where the hell do these euphemisms for MS and the xbox come from?

Come through, no.
More like half-assed.

Re:Wow...

[Kaenneth]

It's not like buying a new console causes your old one to implode automatically.

Re:Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

"What with Microsoft finally coming through on the Xbox backwards compatibility, and now this, it's pretty obvious that all three of the console makers finally get it."

I think you haven't given this issue much thought.

Sony's a given, since they've gone from PS to PS3 with compatibility, and that's a nice little bonus, considering the effect that the "Sony Timer" can have on older systems that are no longer available.

For MS, don't place a whole lot of faith in the gamer press who are talking about unqualified backwards compatibility on the Xbox 360. As always, they're being irresponsible with their information, and the worst thing is, more than one article have stated that it will be backwards compatible without listing the pretty big caveats. Read what actually MS said, and it's obvious that they're having trouble with full compatibility. When they say "to-selling games," the clear implication is "not every game." On top of that, this is only MS's second console, what would you have liked the first Xbox to be compatible with?

Regarding Nintendo, just how much backwards compatibility would you like to squeeze out of them? The upcoming GameBoy Micro will play all of your GameBoy games going back to B&W Tetris from 1989. And the GameCube was their first disc-based system; the Revolution will only be their second.

", for one, am hoping they do the right thing, and make the library available for free. While they'll miss out on some revenues of old games, they'll have a guaranteed sell for the Revolution (and Nintendo typically sells it's hardware at break-even or profit), and a footstep into future sales."

I think you're crazy. If Nintendo intends to make games available in any sort or worthwhile quantity, a catalog composed only of free downloadable classics _might_ lead to increased system sales. However, system sales are less important than software sales. Don't take that statement out of context and think that I'm saying that system sales aren't important at all. I understand your point about shoehorning systems into households with freebies. But just imagine a scenario where Nintendo sells a billion Revolution systems and nobody buys any games because they use it as a free & legal emu box. And that'll be okay, because hey, PS3 and Xbox 360 are around and they'll charge you money for their stuff. What do you think the third-parties would think about Nintendo in light of such a stupid decision?

Rather, this should be seen as an opportunity for third-parties to re-release their oldies and charge for it. In that way, Nintendo provides a revenue opportunity for their third-parties. Wow, what crazy concept. Luckily enough for everyone actually in the business, Nintendo and the third-parties who support them aren't run by netpundits like you and me. Instead of _just_ trying to give gamers what they want while going broke doing it, or _just_ doing what makes good short-term business at the expense of losing long-term business, they have to be concerned with both. And that is ultimately better for all involved. Charging a low price for downloadables works for everyone. The concept of "all freebies, all the time" doesn't.

Re:Wow...

[jatreuman]

To be fair, I would guess that NES on the SNES and NES/SNES on the N64 just wouldn't have been technically feasible. By the time the GC came around it may have been, but no one would've wanted a cartridge slot for each of the three former systems, and the internet just wasn't popular enough for downloadable content to be worthwhile. It's not really surprising that all three new consoles will be backwards compatible with their CD/DVD-based brethren, but hearing that the Revolution will emulate the old cart games as well is quite a shock.

It would be nice to play all those great games on a console again, but if I have to buy them again too and it doesn't support stuff like save states (as I'm sure will be the case), I'll just stick with PC emulation. Of course, I've never found N64 emulation to be all that great on the PC, so I may find a use for it after all.

Re:Wow...

[discstickers]

A lot of people, myself included, often sell the previous console to fund the purchase of the new one.

Paraphrasing

[Anonymous Coward]

"Well we aren't really sure when it's going to be released, how much it's going to cost, or even what it looks like, but it plays all these outdated games from the 80s and has "Revolution" in it's name!"

If they do this right...

[TD-2779]

If they do this right, they can EASILY make lots of money off the emulation crowd. Most of us have no problems downloading & tweaking emulators, but the "mass market" doesn't have the patience/skills for that. If they target the pricing correctly(i.e. NOT the $20 they were charging for the GBA versions of these games) I don't see why people won't play this JUST for the nostalgia.

Some thoughts:

- If I download games to my SD card, can I somehow back them up to my PC?

- Would *I* pay more than $1-$2 dollars for an old NES game? How about SNES? N64?

- They seemed to mention Super Mario Sunshine as a downloadable game! I wonder if this is correct, because it must not have used all of the 1.5GB on the GameCube disc then.

- Nintendo really IS going out of there way to be different this time. If the specs turn out to be THAT much lower than the competition it will pretty much rule out lots of direct ports.

Re:If they do this right...

[kenthorvath]

Would *I* pay more than $1-$2 dollars for an old NES game?

I don't know, but they are going for roughly $5 a piece in stores like EBWorld and Gamestop, with some classic titles reaching $25. A dollar seems right for me, though - they could adopt the iTunes model. As far as backups go, though. I wouldn't be surprised if a purchase was locked to a particular console and upon its deletion, the server keeps track of which consoles downloaded that particular title and just reserved it upon demand. Likewise, downloads will probably be DRMed into subservience only to one particular console and so there will likely be no way to put standard ROMs onto the console. In fact, the ROMs might even be transcoded into the Revolution's native format so that there is no emulator required.

Re:If they do this right...

[TD-2779]

There'd have to be a way to transfer to another "Revolution" console in case your first one bit the dust.

Re:If they do this right...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't be that hard. You send a request they disable your old console and add the new one. The question is how long will it be around, and what happens when it's EOLed.

Re:If they do this right...

[tratch]

They did mention Super Mario Sunshine, but they also said that it would accept GCN discs, right? I think the emu comes into play with 64, SNES, and NES.

Re:If they do this right...

[barawn]

With intelligent design, the server wouldn't be tied to the console. All it needs to do is send ROMs, and those are architecture-independent. Old games never die. They're just too good. Nintendo literally could keep that market up forever. With each new console, it could play all previous console's games, and all of Nintendo's old stock stuff.

Re:If they do this right...

[KillShill]

very clever.

most people have not the insight and tact that you seem to have.

how you casually slipped in SD card in there ...

as you already no doubt know, the S in SD stands for secure... which is another way of saying DRM. you see, in this new age of wonders, security means secure from the owner.

enjoy your life as a slave, friend. and let us remember fondly the days of yore.

Re:If they do this right...

[Anonymous Coward]

I just paid 6 dollars on ebay for the cart of Crystalis because the battery on mine died, and that was cheaper than buying a new battery and likely screwing up my cart.

Some of those games are well worth 5 dollars, even nowadays. Hell, that's only a little under 2 gallons of gasoline. And that lasts you what, 50 miles?

50 miles, or a timeless classic? Classic, imho, is more worth the money. (especially since I drive a super fuel efficient fully internal combustion engine. 40mpg hw and no toxic batteries! well, just one..)

Re:If they do this right...

[bynary]

I would gladly pay $5-$10 for old NES, SNES, and N64 classics.

Also, I don't believe that the Mario Sunshine disk image is more than 50 MB (or something like that). In other words, they didn't even come close to using the entire disk. It's a relatively small game, simple textures, not that many unique characters, and repetitive scenery. It really shouldn't be a big game.

Interesting

[mcc]

The XBox 360 gets unveiled; it hits the slashdot front page. The Sony PS3 gets unveiled; it hits the slashdot front page. The Nintendo Revolution gets unveiled; it goes to the games.slashdot section page.

Hmm.

Anyhow, Nintendo pretty much let down anyone who was hoping for real information today. I can shrug this off though. What matters to me though is what they do to developers.

Nintendo made quiet public statements a month or so ago that there would be more shown of the Revolution behind closed doors than there were in their E3 conference; today, they brought a Revolution prototype on stage (and apparently a functional one, since they said it wasn't as small as the final version would be) and said that they'd be showing it off in meetings later that week. I assume this means they're going to be revealing the information to developers this week that they didn't to consumers today.

And, well, they'd better. Work on PS3 games is clearly already starting or seriously underway. Nintendo can continue to cocktease consumers for another six months without it being a serious problem for them, but if they don't sell third party developers on this quickly they're going to outright miss the chance to get third parties signed on at all.

The thing that really concerns me is, Nintendo seems to be convinced they have solutions for low-budget high-concept dev houses; well, that won't really help much if nobody but the five or six massive developers Nintendo talks to behind closed doors this week are considered NDA-trustworthy enough to get dev kits, and by the time the low-budget high-concept game designers actually find out what the Revolution is they're already locked into making PS3 games.

Well, at least the new DS lineup is absolutely fantastic.

Re:Interesting

[oGMo]

The Nintendo Revolution gets unveiled; it goes to the games.slashdot section page.

Hmm.

Anyhow, Nintendo pretty much let down anyone who was hoping for real information today.

And you wonder why it's not on the front page? I've been fairly hyped to see whatever Nintendo was doing after the PS3 excitement, but... it's all vapor so far. And only vague promises at that. Granted, "Nintendo handwaves vaguely" wouldn't be considerably worse than some slashdot stories, but really... Nintendo hasn't earned a front-page story yet.

Re:Interesting

[ignorant_coward]

Nintendo has said about all they need to. Being able to download NES, SNES, and N64 games is _huge_. For a few bucks, I'd gladly download the Final Fantasy games I missed, or get the Super Mario or Zelda games from the N64.

If XBox 360 and PS3 are both $300 or more, if Nintendo can come in under their prices and offer the download service, the Revolution could be the perfect "family" gaming system (family playtime would be Mario instead of killing bitches in GTA).

Re:Interesting

[AvitarX]

This was not a revealing.

We still no much less about the Revoluton then we do the Xbox360 or the PS3.

Nintendo has at least 2 press releases left that will be far more worthy (specifically exact specs and the "revolution").

I would expect both those to be front page (expacialy the latter) but people not into games should not have to see every tricklle of news they release.

They may be able to get away with weaker specs if they let developers release standart def games (as long as they don't let that get used against them like the online, even though relativl few people game online).

Re:Interesting

[Bagels]

Fairly trustworthy specs have already been leaked by the company providing the RAM (MoSys) for the Revolution. They've stated that the system will have a custom 2.5GHz, four-core G5 processor (pretty comparable to the 360's 3.2GHz three-core G5 processor), 512MB of their RAM (again, like the 360), and a next-gen ATI gfx processor w/16MB of extra RAM.

Re:Interesting

[mcc]

Can you confirm that or do you have a cite? As far as I know the RAM company only leaked a release date for the and the specs got added somewhere to the story as it was forwarded around the blog circuit. Those specs look reasonable but I don't think they've been commented on by any trustworthy source. I'd be curious to see if they had.

Re:Interesting

[barawn]

And you wonder why it's not on the front page? I've been fairly hyped to see whatever Nintendo was doing after the PS3 excitement, but... it's all vapor so far.

Vapor? Pictures of the Xbox 360 leaked hit the front page of Slashdot. Pictures of the Revolution, and it's on games/. only.

Pictures aren't vapor.

Re:Interesting

[Suddenly_Dead]

The reason I'm thinking that the revolution hasn't been put on the front page is because it's expected that the main "revolution" of the Revolution has yet to be announced. The input method or whatever it is that they've been trying to keep secret.

I'm still betting on the input method being it, and not this new download thing, since Nintendo is the only company that we don't have controller pictures from yet.

But heck, this whole downloading thing is just great. After the N64 I thought I would never buy another Nintendo console (I fell into the "Nintendo makes kiddy games" thing, which is mostly a fear that kids and teens have...), but I think they've won me back. The back catalog for download? Backwards compatibility with the Gamecube, which I don't own? It's just too perfect.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Heck, the PS3 just showed specs, pics, and some shady demos (though one was definately real, and not shabby). It got front page. What's going on?

I think that perhaps the /. editors are Nintendo fans. They want to hold back on the excitement until the time when the real "revolution" is announced, then plop it on the front page. If they put every little thing up there, excitement will dwindle.

Re:Interesting

[BlueHands]

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=02ea 1a40-ac09-4cdf-9548-91e5a4e78746&page=other

how is that for a source??.thou,it DOES say flash memeroy, which implies storage and not working ram.....

Re:Interesting

[mcc]

The previous poster said:

"2.5GHz, four-core G5 processor (pretty comparable to the 360's 3.2GHz three-core G5 processor), 512MB of their RAM (again, like the 360), and a next-gen ATI gfx processor w/16MB of extra RAM."

None of these things are confirmed, denied or commented on by the link you give.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

"Nintendo talks to behind closed doors this week are considered NDA-trustworthy enough to get dev kits"

They'll probably sell a bastardized development kit for cheap, 100-300 dollars, that includes:

-an engine
-a scripting engine
-a milkshape exporter
-compiler
-iso building software

And for their big partners, they'll have the whole game archetecture opened up.

Re:Interesting

[urbaer]

Got confused there for a minute. Read "a milkshape exporter" as "a milkshake exporter". Couldn't really understand the link between milkshakes and game development...I'm sure there is one...

Re:Interesting

[prionic6]

I am thinking about what the massive backwards compatabilty means for the controller - It has to be, in some ways, a classic but flexible controller because you have to be able to control SNES, N64 and Gamecube games with it. Remember the N64 had for yellow "directional" buttons that transormed (well, kind of) into an analog yellow stick on the Gamecube controller. But some games on the N64 used those yellow buttons as standard buttons (not for camera movement or whatever) in a way that would be unplayable with those buttons mapped to a stick. Lets see what Nintendo comes up with...

Maybe they will have a good automatic standard mapping for the Rev controller, maybe they will even change some games to be used with less buttons. The N64 had 10 buttons (counting start), 9 of them usable simultanously. Gamecube controller has 5 buttons and 2 shoulder triggers. You see where the trend is. A controller with 10 buttons today would be seen as bulky, i think.

Re:Interesting

[|/|/|||]

Interesting point, especially when combined with the fact that Nintendo is being pretty mysterious about the controller. There's been some speculation about reconfigurable touchscreen controllers, which would allow the same controller to have different numbers of buttons. I kind of doubt that one, though, since the player spends a lot more time feeling the buttons than looking at them.

Interesting. How would you make a reconfigurable controller that still feels natural to use?

Re:Interesting

[Rayonic]

For a few bucks...

Hah! Like they'd ever charge a reasonable price for old games. Expect to pay at least $20 for your Final Fantasy 6 download, at least.

Re:Interesting

[ignorant_coward]

I'd hope Nintendo understands that older NES/SNES games go for about $5 or less at flea markets and on the bargain shelf at stores. There'd be no market to support $20, IMO.

Just a thought....

[-kertrats-]

That thing looks an awful lot like a disk drive for a desktop PC (and about the same size, too). What are the odds Nintendo allows you to use it in a computer? That would be very interesting indeed.

Re:Just a thought....

[Chode2235]

It seems logical as Iwata said that the unique thing about the revolution will that the way it connects the things such as controllers, internet, etc will be fundamentally different.

Also he stated that it is playable on a pc monitor

Re:Just a thought....

[Minced]

If it has an outlet for a moniter...then it can be easily hooked up to a projector.

Play Those Old NES Games ONLINE =)

[duerra]

Imagine, if you will, the ability for all those old multiplayer Nintendo games to be playable online. If Nintendo could make it so that any of those old multiplayer Nintendo games could be played against another person online instead of having him or her right next to you..... that would be the ultimate killer scenario. Is it possible? I don't know. A guy should be allowed to speculate, though.

Everyone would own one. Forget about market share. It will be 50% XBox 360 and 50% PS3... with 100% having a Revolution.

Heck, it may be anyway..... *drool*.

Re:Play Those Old NES Games ONLINE =)

[PhoenixFlare]

If Nintendo could make it so that any of those old multiplayer Nintendo games could be played against another person online instead of having him or her right next to you..... that would be the ultimate killer scenario. Is it possible? I don't know. A guy should be allowed to speculate, though.

You've been able to do this with emulators like ZSNES and Snes9x for years now, so i'd say it's at least possible, if they wanted to do it.

Controller

[tiredwired]

I bet you will be able to use a DS as a wireless controller just like the PS3+PSP.

Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[petteri_666]

Hopefully wavebirds will be also backwards compatible. It would be same if I have to thorw those away.

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[HyperChicken]

Interesting idea. However, with the rumor of Nintendo completely changing the controller (no "A" button) makes me doubt backwards controller compability.

Is anyone else a little shakey about all these wireless controllers? I don't like the idea of batteries in controllers. You're about to beat a boss and then your controller dies... Oh woo...hoo.

Furthermore, Sony's using Bluetooth. Can you say uber controller hacking? Remember that guy who hacked GTA:SA codes via a hacked up PS2 controller connected to a PC? Really easy to do that now, and other things, possibly evil things (e.g. always jumping).

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[NanoGator]

"Hopefully wavebirds will be also backwards compatible. It would be same if I have to thorw those away."

If the Rev controllers have gyros, this is incredibly unlikely.

Altho... Maybe Wavebirds will work to play GC games.

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[Rallion]

About the batteries, I share your concern. Despite the fact that the XBox360 impresses me the least so far, its default controllers essentially feature wireless as an option. It communicates via wireless always, yes, but it CAN be plugged in during use for power and charging, according to what I've read. I think that's the way to go. I don't know if anything like this is planned for the other consoles, but it would be nice.

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see how...There is nowhere to plug them into!

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[Anonymous Coward]

The revolution actually has 4 controler ports behind a hidden pannel on the top (or side) of the unit. Im not sure what this will mean for the controllers. Maybe they will recharge there or have an optional cord.

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[Rallion]

The revolution actually has 4 controler ports behind a hidden pannel on the top (or side) of the unit. Im not sure what this will mean for the controllers. Maybe they will recharge there or have an optional cord.

I only just saw those. They look like ports for current GameCube controllers to me, but if it's possible to use them in some way for power to the wireless ones that would, obviously, be great.

Re:Wavebirds backwards Compatible

[buffer-overflowed]

The top flips up, revealing 4 GCN controller ports and 2 GCN memory card slots. So we'll still be able to use our wavebirds for GCN games at the very least.

I Know I'm Getting It

[theclam159]

Smash Brothers Online at Launch + FF: Crystal Chronicles + Zelda + Mario + Huge Back Catalog of Backwards Compatibility = Guaranteed Sale

While I am annoyed that they didn't show more than a couple second of Metroid for the Revolution, they announced too many good things for me to be unhappy. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, they actually have games that I'm excited about. But then again, I am a Nintendo fanboy.

Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[LordZardoz]

The general consensus among my friends is that while making the old library of games available for the new platform is a hugely good thing, they are concerned about the apparant hardware spec.

After Sony and Microsoft making a huge deal of the processing power of their hardware, the rumors that Revolution will only be 2 - 3 times more powerful then the Gamecube (as opposed to 15 or so times more powerful for PS3 vs PS2)is somewhat troubling.

If any company can make games on weaker hardware that are better then offerings of competitors on faster hardware, it is Nintendo. But for 3rd party developers that lack Nintendo's pedigree, there may be some balking at putting new games on what appears to be an inferior platform.

The best chance for Revolution to succeed over PS3 or XBox 360 is for development on Revolution to be absurdly easy and cost effective. They may still lose out on having companies like EA target their platform, but can mitigate that by attracting publishers who are starting up and cannot afford to develop for the other platforms.

If Nintendo can attract enough developers to their platform, and have a heavy stream of new games coming out for their platform, they will do amazingly well.

Lots of new games + Abusrd amunts of old cheap games + low price of the console will allow Nintendo to succeed.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part. Until we know exactly what the hardware specs for Revolution are, being worried about the console being underpowerered are premature.

END COMMUNICATION

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[MaverickUW]

There's another thing to take into consideration.

Remember before this generation came out. Sony and microsoft were blatantly advertising how many polygons their consoles could put out. Sony said what, like 70 million+ or somewhere in there?

Nintendo's response was that we can do 12 million, in a real gameplay situation.

Ironically, for many games, those 12 million sure do look better then those theoretical 70 million.

Nintendo also severely underestimated the usuable distance for the Wavebird if you'll recall.

Something tells me not to trust this fully. MS may say 15 times more powerful, Sony may say 35 times more powerful, but until we get some developers saying something (or some real specs), that 3 times more powerful might not be as low as it seems...

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[stylee]

I am a little concerned about this myself. However, I think the continued sales of the PS2 after the launch of GC and XBox shows that the better library will win out as long as the hardware is comparable.

Revolution will be 2 to 3 times as powerful as GC. PS3 is 12 - 15 times as powerful as PS2. However, if I recall, in shear processing power, the GC was already 2-3 times as powerful as the PS2.

If all this is true, and my mathis correct, then the PS3 would be about 2-3 times as powerful as the Revolution. And the Revolution would be comparable to the Xbox 360. However, with the downloadable games the Revolution would come packaged with a library no one could even touch, assuming older 3rd party games will be playable on the Revolution.

I think that Nintendo might have a good chance of reclaiming some market share with this. Price points will have a lot to do with it and again Nintendo looks to be way ahead of the curve here. If Nintendo is able to stick with their usual price of $199 they will probably be $100-$150 at least below PS3 and Xbox 360, then Sony and MS may get more competition from Nintendo this generation than they bargained for.

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[Rallion]

One thing I've noticed about Nintendo is that they tend to be extremely conservative in their promises of quality. They do NOT want to say that a feature will be in, then not have it in, and they do NOT want people to think their stuff is better than it actually is. (They want people to FEEL like its better, sure.)

On the other hand, Sony (and Microsoft, to a lesser degree) do the exact opposite. They trump up their numbers as much as they possibly can without outright lying -- except for when they outright lie.

I think it's safe to say that the PS3 will have more power than its competitors, surely. There's no doubt of that. But I agree with you in that it's too early to say how big the difference will be.

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[buffer-overflowed]

Bah, don't worry. Nintendo knows what they're doing, you need look no further than the gamecube. Far more powerful than the PS2 for all practical purposes on theoretically weaker hardware. A really well done GCN game(the new zelda, RE4) looks as good(or better in some ways) as a really well done XBox game, and the hardware/development hump difference is huge. Plus they managed to all but remove load times w/o an HDD. The N64 was more powerful than the PS1(comparable to the rendering power of an SGI workstation of the time), just limited by storage capacity. The SNES was as strong as the genesis in it's own ways. The NES however, was weak compared to the SMS, but now we're 20 years back.

Going by specs is always a bad idea. Remember all the PS2 hype? Yea. Just ignore it and wait to see actual moving footage of comparitive gen games before you go off and pan one as weak and praise another as strong.

Besides, according to many rumors, it's a 2.5GHz 4 core PPC(vs. the Xboxes 3GHz 3 core PPC) with comparitive graphics processors and RAM to the XBox 360. Certainly no slouch.

If anything I'd call the PS3 the weakest of the 3. It fits the Sony pattern, and Sony is the company with the LEAST software development experience. Remember that both Nintendo AND MS have been doing development for 3 decades. Sony's been doing it for just over 1.

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[macshit]

Exactly. Many people were fooled by the early PS2/xbox hype and blather into thinking they would be far more powerful than the GC ... but reality turned out to be quite different.

Sony is particularly guilty of this of course, and seems to be repeating themselves with all the cell hype. Don't fool yourself -- Sony is no magician, and they aren't going to beat the technology curve by any significant margin. They may be able to get great numbers in very narrow artificial benchmarks, but it's much, much harder (read: it isn't going to happen) to make the end results reflect this. This seems particularly true for Sony/SCE, who have never shown much skill at good balanced system design.

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[barawn]

After Sony and Microsoft making a huge deal of the processing power of their hardware, the rumors that Revolution will only be 2 - 3 times more powerful then the Gamecube (as opposed to 15 or so times more powerful for PS3 vs PS2)is somewhat troubling.

That's because Sony and Microsoft both live in la-la land when it comes to actually marketing for games. The only reason they survive is because A) Sony is still riding the crest of the original PlayStation, and B) Microsoft has enough money to entice 3rd party developers, and has a good online model.

If Nintendo had the same 3rd party support that Microsoft and Sony did, they'd be dominating the market. Seriously. They're far, far better at marketing games.

The Xbox 360 will not be "10 times more powerful" than the original Xbox. No way. Maybe in some situations (see Apple's RDF: "10X faster in Photoshop. With this filter. On this size file. On Tuesdays.") but certainly not in general. Ditto with the PS3.

Anyway, let me explain the original comment: what do you know about the PS3?

To quote Ars Technica:

* Backwards compatibility with the Playstation and Playstation 2
* Support for Blu-Ray, DVD, CD-ROM, CDRW, DVD-ROM, DVD+R, and DVD-R formats.
* Storage options include a 2.5-inch removable hard drive, SD, Memory Stick Duo, and compact flash.
* Connectivity options include Bluetooth (for the controllers), 802.11b (for PSP connectivity), Gigabit Ethernet, and USB 2.0
* The Cell processor will run at 3.2GHz (same as the Xbox's 360's Xenon CPU)
* Main memory is 256MB of RDRAM, and the machine will also have 256MB of 700MHz GDDR VRAM. (Compare the Xbox 360's single pool of 512MB of GDDR 3 DRAM.)
* Video output can go as high as 1080p

But there is not a single word in there about what kind of games it will play. They showed a few tech demos, and a few sequels to current games. All of that gets basically lost in their marketing shuffle. Besides, while people may deride Nintendo for reusing old games, Sony is definitely rapidly running up there. Tekken 6? Gran Turismo 5? These properties are two generations old! Zelda is five generations old and only has 6 console games entirely.

In contrast, Nintendo's presentation was all about the games, and the way the next console will work. Just listen to what everyone's saying: "oh, playing that will be cool!" "oh, doing that will be cool!" even though Nintendo hasn't even announced one game for it.

Until we know exactly what the hardware specs for Revolution are, being worried about the console being underpowerered are premature.

Wait till the games come out, and decide for yourself. Hardware specs can be massively deceiving, as Sony and Microsoft traded the MHz myth for the "peak FLOPs" myth. Nintendo's not stupid. Their consoles are always extremely well designed from an architecture point of view. Sony and Microsoft, on the other hand, both tend to be a little sloppy and wasteful (*still* with a UMA for Xbox 360? bleah. At least it's got 10MB of eDRAM, but what a way to stall 6 threads at once by starving them of memory bandwidth by making the graphics processor steal it).

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[KillShill]

there is as much doubt as you can imagine.

it's not concrete until it's in users' hands and even then it's still up to each individual to decide.

you of course fell for their hyped up bullshit.

to me, all 3 consoles seem more or less equal in terms of technical capability.

multiprocessing has ALWAYS been difficult. check out the ps2 and saturn for a taste of the console side of it.

now that sony has joined the 21st century (after the repugnant gfx of the ps2), their fans are no doubt even more arrogant, ignorant and oblivious to the hype.

thank you for your time.

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[KillShill]

i'd say it's quite eye-opening to say theoretical above.

seeing as how laboriously difficult it has been to program (ps2), one could say it was theoretically much weaker.

if the programs are too difficult to write that will efficiently make use of the hw, then for all intents and purposes it is weaker.

and as an aside, they have some gall charging $150
for such an inferior console.

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that the PS3 claims to be only 1/16 as powerful as Earth Simulator (a supercomputer in Japan, one of the fastest computers in the world and about the size of a city block) is only slightly amusing to me.

Of course, I read a research paper recently which exlored using GPUs (what make up a proported 1.8TFLOPS) as nodes in a supercomputer. He found that for certain types (not even all) of floating point operations it was superb, but certain other ones performed even less efficiently than a normal desktop machine. Mainly the factorials (caching issues).

2TFLOP console != 2TFLOP desktop CPU. (the fact that they claim the Cell is nearly 300 GFLOPS still is rather astounding. That's only a little less than half as fast as Space Simulator - a cluster of nearly 300 pentium 4 SFFs built in Los Alamos)

Re:Can the software library offset hardware specs?

[brkello]

Yeah, don't worry. As long as you are a Nintendo Fanboy, you can convince yourself that the graphics look better on inferior hardware. I know that is a harsh statement, but I am tired of emotional facination with -insert console here- and then reading all these posts that are so biased.

While I agree that specs don't tell the whole pictures, they can hint at what the system is capable of. If there was a game released on both the Xbox and the GC, I would get it on the Xbox because it is a more capable device. Your argument that RE4 looks better than really well done Xbox games is pretty dumb. You can't compare different games on different devices and come to the conclusion that games look better on the GC. You can say that games can still look very good on the GC and that it is enough for you.

Really, Nintendo is fine and going to exist for a long time. It will stand on the shoulders of its giants (mario, zelda, animal crossing, and all its other quality first party games). You don't need to justify its every action, because it is going to make mistakes. Admit the mistakes and move on. I really suggest getting all the consoles...the current gen all have something special to offer.

And to the whole graphics != good people. Really, give it a rest. We all know that pretty graphics doesn't mean its the best game. Games are made up of many elements, and graphical quality is part of that. Some games are pretty enough that you just enjoy being in the environment. Some games are fun enough to play that you keep your 8-bit nintendo in prime running condition. I am happy to see newer consoles pushing the limits of what is available...games are part of the reason why computing has improved so much in the past years. If games don't push the limits of the consoles, there is no need to upgrade. Then the only ones pushing the market are super computers and movie companies...and those are tiny markets in compariosn. With less business benefit, industry stagnates and improvements slows. So bring on the pretty grahpics...we all will benefit from it.

Maybe I'm missing something

[tratch]

I'm far from the most astute, but wouldn't downloadable content like NES, SNES, or N64 games require some sort of storage?

Everything I've read so far about the Rev mentions nothing about a HDD but says that it will have 512MB of flash memory. I guess this could be used for savegames, but there's no way this could be used for the downloaded games.

I know Ninty's reluctant to take the plunge, but would it kill them to put a 5 or 10GB HDD in the thing? Or am I completely misunderstanding how this is giong to work?

My guess is the latter, but who knows.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[Bagels]

Sure it could. 512MB would store 8 of the largest possible N64 games (at 64MB) uncompressed. As I recall it, only Resident Evil 2 and Conker's BFD were ever that large. Thus, you're guaranteed space for over 8 games. The two Zeldas clocked in at 32MB, and Ogre Battle 64 was 40MB. With compression, I'd guess that the average size of a game would be somewhere around 20MB (not that Nintendo made lots of 20MB carts, that's just where I'd expect the balance to fall, considering the number of 16MB and 32MB carts). SNES games range from 1 to 4MB; you could literally fit hundred(s) of them in that space. NES games? Quite possibly a thousand of those.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[tratch]

I stand corrected sir and tip my hat to you.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[DisKurzion]

Maybe they'll charge a monthly fee for the old games, which you would then download on demand.

Or maybe it won't store all the ROMS on your flashdrive, instead just keeping track of the ones you have rights to, and letting you download them an infinite number of times.

If the price is right (free would cause the revolution to fly off the shelves faster than the PS2 did), this thing would make Revolution unstoppable.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[ripbruger]

From what I've read, the Revolution has 2 USB 2.0 ports. I'm wondering if you could download the games onto that (probably encrypted in some form or another to prevent copying).

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[Anonymous Coward]

SD memory cards. That's what you can expand this thing with, and they generally go to 1 GB, maybe 2. Not bad for ROMS, and you can probably move the ones you aren't using to your PC.

Of course, that's assuming that the service doesn't just download or stream games from Nintendo directly.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[Rallion]

NES games? Quite possibly a thousand of those.

A little tidbit - you can EASILY fit EVERY published NES game in 512MB.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[brkello]

They could just keep track of what games you "own" and keep what you can't hold on their server. Then you download them when you want to play them. Or maybe there is some other way to attach writable media to the device. 512 MB ain't what it used to be.

Freedom of Design

[rAiNsT0rm]

Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game "masterpieces" as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea.

This could be the big feature even though it most likely won't see much coverage in mainstream media. Another quote from Nintendo they state game development is approaching 8 figures, and that developers are beginning to grow tired of this. Especially with the slashdot crowd you'd think this would be a big deal but not much is being said, the ability to affordably create your own titles with solid Nintendo toolsets is HUGE! This is the type of thing that breeds innovation and fresh new games. Devil Dice for PS1, Katamari Damacy for PS2 (kinda, it was a personal vision type of game), and numerous other great indy/small release titles. This just may be what steals the show if it is accessible.

Verrry interesting...

[lpangelrob2]

"The console also will have downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo® 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System® (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System® (NES)."

Hmm. Let me download Snake, Rattle n' Roll and The Guardian Legend for $.99 (or whatever's fair... that means LESS than $19.99) and you've got yourself a loyal customer again.

Nintendo... the next iTunes Music Store-like experience?

Re:Verrry interesting...

[say__10]

Bloody hell I spent hours upon hours every day during the summer with my cousins playing Snake Rattle n' Roll... When I beat it, that was the greatest moment of triumph ever for a 9 year old... ahhh nostalgia.... mmm

Prices for downloadable

[aliens]

I think we're all dreaming that the price of classics will be less than $20/each. They didn't exactly give away the remakes they released for the GBA, granted they needed a cart so that increases the cost.

But $5/game sounds way too cheap in an office room I think.

Re:Prices for downloadable

[Rallion]

I would fully expect $5-$10 to be much more profitable prices than $20. Once you get below $10, I'd think lots of people will see the price as negligible, and sales will increase massively.

Re:Prices for downloadable

[Frodo Crockett]

Surely the decision makers at Nintendo have considered sales figures for the NES->GBA ports. I'm sure they're pretty crappy. To me, $5 per game seems like the upper limit of what's resonable for an NES game. I expect NES games to be priced around $1-2, SNES games around $5, and N64 games around $10.

Keep in mind that the profit margin for these titles will be very high. There is no physical media or packaging, and distribution costs them pennies per copy. The only other costs are development for the emulators and testing for each title. I'm sure Nintendo knows that lower prices == impulse buying, so I don't think that they'll make the mistake of overpricing the games.

Re:Prices for downloadable

[valintin]

Yeah, but would you pay 19.99 for a programable cart? I'm just dreaming but my idea of a revolution would have the capacity to program GBA carts with games I download.

Hey wait a minute?

[AzraelKans]

Where are all the guys that said that backwards compability was completely useless and that never saved any console and that was completely overhyped back in the Xbox 360 post?

Ah! life is a mystery.

Re:Hey wait a minute?

[cowscows]

It's a cool, but definitely overrated feature. In this case, however, its extra important, because MS is really racing to get the Xbox360 out before everyone else. The first to market strategy only works if people actually buy your console. And they won't buy it if the games aren't there. Backwards compatibility can't make up for a complete lack of games, but it can help someone justify a purchase a little more, and every bit helps.

Re:Hey wait a minute?

[Anonymous Coward]

No one gets nostalgic for last year.

Re:Hey wait a minute?

[Twister002]

For a reference for this theory see www.dreamcast.com

Re:Hey wait a minute?

[Suddenly_Dead]

I noticed that most (or about 50%, can't remember) of the modded up posts in that story were responding to those people; saying things like "It's a useful thing because I don't want two monster consoles in my living room" and etc.

Fun anyways

Re:Hey wait a minute?

[Guppy06]

The difference is that Nintendo has a library worth reaching back into. :)

Download size?

[srcosmo]

Don't the GameCube discs have a capacity of 1.5GB, or something like that? Even if Super Mario Sunshine only uses half the disc, that's still a lot to download.

Re:Download size?

[inio]

Sure, if it were just an image of the disc, however, there's a lot of ways they could make the download more palatable:

1. given the faster processor, more agressive texture compression (J2k?), and re-compression to DXTx at runtime, is possible.

2. The entire game doesn't need to be downloaded to start playing.

3. drop the texture res for the quick-start download, replace FMV with in-game rendered stuff, more agressive compression music & voice.

4. have a small teaser game (like some new "secret levels") that download really quick and get you familiar with the control system.

Re:Download size?

[Psiven]

Implementing most of these techniques would cost too much. Besides, most GCN games don't exceed 500Mb or so, unless they have a lot of FMV. Nintendo enters "garbage" data to fill the rest of the disc. Warioware was something like 300Mb only.

But the Rev supports GCN discs, doesn't it? So isn't downloadable GCN content kind of moot?

Torrent link of the press conference videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does any one have a link for the downloadable press conferences in a decent quality, id prefer not to watch the streams if possible.

Any torrents of the press conferences?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone have any torrent links for the press conferences in a decent quality? Id prefer not to watch the streams if possible.

Downloadable Classics

[AztecL0B0]

I do like the idea, but the problem comes back to what Nintendo said previously. "We do not want for other consoles to steal our ideas." Knowing Microsoft and Sony, it is not difficult to see that they TOO will now offer old classic downloads. Nintendo only stated that they will offer their collection but there was no mention about old Konami, Capcom, etc., games. I can see Microsoft paying large amounts of money to make Konami's old classics exclusives to their Xbox live service. Another thing to ponder is, "Because Nintendo is the publisher of GoldenEye and Perfect Dark, does that mean that those titles will also be exclusive to Revolution?"

Re:Downloadable Classics

[jonwil]

I would think that any company would need permission from nintendo to release any old games for nintendo hardware
Although it depends on what was written in the licence aggreement for the games.

Now on the other hand, I can see some kind of arcade emulator being done for the 360 (with old games from companies like Namco, Atari, Capcom, Konami etc on it)

Around this time next year.

[AzraelKans]

Ps3 is going to be released, showing some seriously engaging games designed for the system like Tekken 6, kill zone 2 and others. Taking the japanese market by storm.

Xbox 360 with an already secured user base, is going on its second wave of games, games that actually tax the power of the system. Final Fantasy Online and the ending of halo with an stablished over 5 million user base : Halo 3.

And Nintendo revolution: Will be released featuring lesser graphics, lesser cpu, some "mysterious" (and knowing nintendo: Silly) controller plus a bunch of 20+ year games that can be found anywhere in the internet right now. (and gamecube titles).

Oh yeah, definetily Nintendo fans should be cheering all over, after all they are the only ones who are even going to notice when this thing is launched.

btw, did they used a toaster, a cd drive or a hard disk drive for the design? nice ps2 colors btw.

Slashdot! the only place in earth where you are modded as flamebait for stating the obvious (against Nintendo of course)

Re:Around this time next year.

[PhoenixFlare]

Xbox 360 with an already secured user base, is going on its second wave of games, games that actually tax the power of the system. Final Fantasy Online and the ending of halo with an stablished over 5 million user base : Halo 3.

By Final Fantasy Online, I assume you mean FFXI, which has already been out on the PS2 and PC for 3 years. If you think a (by that point) 5-year old game is going to give a huge advantage or tax the new Xbox's capability, you're insane.

Not even going to bother replying to the rest of your rubbish, as it's quite obvious you're a troll, a complete idiot, or both :)

Re:Around this time next year.

[Anonymous Coward]

Go troll somewhere else. While you're saving up (or mooching off of mommy or daddy) for the PS3's probably expensive pricetag, everyone else will be having fun playing their games. There's only a limit to how good your system can be, technology-wise, and I think we've almost reached that limit. Nintendo will be making quality games while Sony (not Microsoft so much) tries to scrounge around and find some third party support, which they obviously don't have much of. Appealing games? Nope.

As we all know, the Playstation 2 is the only console that has ever used black as the color. The Sega consoles must have just been a very, very dark gray. Wait a second. Doesn't that mean Sony "stole" the NES, SNES, etc. colors from Nintendo? Why I do believe it does.

As a current Xbox owner (not a GameCube owner, as you might have assumed), I believe the Revolution is the best-looking console. The PS3 looks like a refrigerator and the controller looks like a boomerang. The Xbox 360 (obligatory: hurr, hurr Apple [/sarcasm]) doesn't look too bad, but it doesn't look fantastic, either. I have no complaints about it, especially with the faceplate features. The Revolution, however, definitely looks the best. Sleek, shiny black with a nice blue light on the tray-less optical drive. Not to mention, there's a gigantic library of games already available.

The controller will make or break this console. We'll just have to see.

Re:Around this time next year.

[Jelster]

And Nintendo revolution: Will be released featuring lesser graphics, lesser cpu, some "mysterious" (and knowing nintendo: Silly) controller plus a bunch of 20+ year games that can be found anywhere in the internet right now. (and gamecube titles).

Like Sony and MS are not prone to overhyping their hardware and software in order to belittle competitors. Several posts on that point here probably worthwhile considering them.

Additonally as much as the back catalogue isn't a system maker is a nice sweetner and WILL earn them some customers which they might not get without it.

Oh yeah, definetily Nintendo fans should be cheering all over, after all they are the only ones who are even going to notice when this thing is launched.

Sad but true, hardly the fans fault if (IMHO) the media are too swayed by the PR departments of Sony and MS. Just because they spend more money on parties and flashy commercials doesn't mean you're getting a better system.

btw, did they used a toaster, a cd drive or a hard disk drive for the design? nice ps2 colors btw.

As I've said before tonight. What does it matter how it looks. You want to walk away from your tv thinking you own a sexy looking console or having played one of the best games of the lifetime and have no consideration for the console you played it on. The design is compact and functional, nothing amazing but then it doesn't have to be. If you feel any better about it buy one, wrap it in 5 rolls of sticky tape, cover in glitter and you'll probably be ready for your level of tackyness. :)

Slashdot! the only place in earth where you are modded as flamebait for stating the obvious (against Nintendo of course)

I'd say flamebait because you aren't stating the obvious, you're stating an opinion based on hardly any facts.

Re:Around this time next year.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention a boring advantage. When I played for a brief while, I actually fell asleep pushing the taunt button over and over again. My group didn't notice, I woke up an hour later and it was the same group with one person different. Still doing the same thing. Over and over. I'd rather watch Wonder Showzen.

Gameshark? Duck Hunt?

[MeanderingMind]

Does anyone else see the awesomeness in having one Gameshark for 5 consoles simultaneously? That would be utterly and completely awesome.

Additionally, if Nintendo is extremely brilliant (because it seems obvious they're already brilliant), they'll have a wireless lightgun so you can play Duck Hunt and, dare I say it, a new Duck Hunt for the revolution as well?

sweet, i can play tetris 64 again

[badmonkey]

I love the idea of downloadable games, because there are some real gems in nintendo's back-library.

Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Out of all the next-gen systems, the Revolution at least has my interest. Simply showing off new hardware that is supposed to be "the best ever" means nothing. All the systems will be similar in performance, thats just a fact. PS3 and Xbox360? Eh? Fast new hardware, whatever. Let's just wait and see what games make it worth the $300 purchase (or however much they are going to cost).

But the new development model of Revolution intreges me. The free wireless hotspots for internet connectivitiy for the DS and Revolution including downloading NES/SNES/N64 libraries is interesting.

I want to know more.

Whatever

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Well it won't be televised so we'll never see it anyway.

Storage is nothing to worry about

[Anonymous Coward]

I've read that the Revolution will have 2x USB 2.0 ports.

Nintendo E3 Video Torrent

[josath]

http://rorexrobots.com/nin/Nintendo-E3.asf.torrent
nice fast 10mbit seed with nobody currently on it...get it while it's hot!

Re:Nintendo E3 Video Torrent

[apanap]

Is there actually any coverage of E3 in the file at all, or is it all crappy music to a nintendo logo like the first 5 minutes is!? Crappy un-skippable asf-file%#"%"%

Re:Nintendo E3 Video Torrent

[etherspin]

yeah.. 128mb for a single pic of nintendo logo with a rock song playing for several minutes... erm.. is this some new asf codec we've never heard of ??

Re:Nintendo E3 Video Torrent

[josath]

they started recording a couple minutes before it started, but i was able to skip past the wait music just fine...your media player must suck or something? in mplayer just press right-arrow to skip forward.

The revolution is..

[ShawnDoc]

The revolution is that Nintendo will have the only affordable next generation system on the market next Christmas. The Revolution was clearly designed to be as affordable to produce as possible. I would not be surprised to see the 360 or PS3 going for $399 or more when they launch.

Just look at the features of the PS3, 3 x Gigabit ports, WiFi, BlueTooth, CF, not to mention the RAM and GPU. There's no way it will be affordable.

Re:The revolution is..

[MaverickUW]

Sure it will!

Don't you know Sony is trying to beat MS at EVERYTHING this next generation? Including who can take the largest monetary hit with every console sold?

MS did good at that with the X-box, but considering the Geforce 6800 Ultra with 512 MB of ram just was announced at $1000, I think Sony will win the battle of the biggest loss hands down.

Background Image

[Anonymous Coward]

What I'm wondering is, what's the background image used at 45:50 in Gamespot's Nintendo E3 Press Conference video?

Re:Background Image

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what you get if you open the flap on the front. Orientation buttons for the wireless controllers, as well as a slot for the DVD-Video upgrade.

that lack of details

[GlenRaphael]

The Nintendo press conference touched on aspects of the Nintendo Revolution, but offered no details on what "the" revolution is.

That's because there were TV cameras present. The Revolution will not be televised.

Nintendo wants to become the Apple of gaming

[apetime]

It seems like the major announcements Nintendo has made in the last few days have taken major cues from Apple. Nintendo has just opened a store in New York, released a new GBA the press release says will "[position] the image-conscious player as someone on the cutting edge of cool." Now, they've also set up game downloads for their back catalog, like iTMS.

Expect Nintendo to try and portray themselves as above the Sony vs. Microsoft battle. It looks like Nintendo think they are right now like Apple right before OS X and the iPod made them a major player again. Hopefully this will translate into them bringing major and useful innovations to the market.

Nintendo Revolution Details...

[xQuarkDS9x]

Ok here's the details of the system in general since this article apparantly doesn't touch on it...

The cool look: The new console boasts high-quality materials and a smart, compact design, approximately the size of three standard DVD cases stacked together. A variety of prototype colors are being showcased during E3. It will come with a silver stand that makes the system a welcome, artistic component of any multimedia setup, whether it's displayed vertically or horizontally.

Backward compatibility: The new console plays all games from the current Nintendo GameCube generation. But there's more...

The secret weapon: The console also will have downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES).

Easy expansion: A bay for an SD memory card will let players expand the internal flash memory.

Two disc formats, one slot: Instead of a tray, a single, innovative, self-loading media bay will play both 12-centimeter optical discs used for the new system as well as Nintendo GameCube discs. Owners will have the option of equipping a small, self-contained attachment to play movies and other DVD content.

The specs: The system boasts 512 megabytes of internal flash memory, wireless controllers, two USB 2.0 ports and built-in Wi-Fi access. A worldwide network of Nintendo players can gather to compete in a comfortable, inviting environment. Revolution's technological heart, a processing chip developed with IBM and code-named "Broadway," and a graphics chip set from ATI code-named "Hollywood," will deliver game experiences not previously possible.

The stars: Introduction of a number of new franchise properties will add to the world's richest stable of stars, including Mario, Zelda, Super Smash Bros., Donkey Kong and Metroid.

Wireless freedom: A number of Wi-Fi-enabled launch titles are in development that will employ Nintendo's newly announced wireless gaming service, Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection. A worldwide network of Nintendo players can gather to compete in a comfortable, inviting environment.

Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game "masterpieces" as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea.

"Our next console proves small in size but big on ideas," says Reggie Fils-Aime, Nintendo of America's executive vice president of sales & marketing. "We're throwing open the doors of gaming to wider audiences, from casual players to hard-core gamers who live for the thrill of defeating an endless army of wireless opponents."

New Console Same Nintendo

[MrCopilot]

Press conference no details.
Surprise, Color me Shocked!

Hardware lags behind the others.
Yawn
MONO GameBoy vs Sega GameGear
NES vs Genesis
SNES vs 32x ? CD? oh yeah 3d0 & Jaguar
n64 vs Saturn or Dreamcast or PS1
Cube vs PS2 or Xbox

Backwards Compatable.
Ok so the n64 wasn't but GB(A) always has been since SNES.The great thing about this (for N) now, all the way back to MONO tetris, nintendo has no abandonware. The whole catalog is potentially profitable, thus giving them a new weapon in their never ending battle to stop N games from being run on non-N hardware. Those patch-wearing, peg-legged, parrot-perchin, pirate bastards must be stopped.

Here is the real surprise PRICE. No Way M$ or $ony can afford to undercut these units. Same as the portable wars. GBA, SP, DS != PSP (Graphic Quality, Function, Design) But just like those old MONO GBs they are still flying off the shelves. So will this thing. My household is begging for a PS3 but we all know we'll have a Revolution first, right beside our PS2, 3 PCs, Gamecube (maybe sell the GC or Linux it http://www.gc-linux.org/

Great Ad Campaign for MS or Sony.
So you say you wanna revolution. Man you gotta change your head.

e3 Nintendo Press Unveiling with Video Stream.http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/17/new s_6125078.html

Re:New Console Same Nintendo

[tepples]

MONO GameBoy vs Sega GameGear

You mean battery-efficient Game Boy with a comparatively versatile sound chip vs. battery-hogging Sega Game Gear with a simplistic sound chip.

Re:New Console Same Nintendo

[MrCopilot]

You use non-rechargable batteries?

http://www.whatconsole.co.uk/nintendo.php#GameBoy
CPU Z80 8-Bit CMOS
Clock speed 4.19 MHz
RAM 8 Kb
Power source 4 AA batteries
Battery life Approx 12 hours
Screen STN dot matrix LCD
Weight 394g/148g
Resolution 160 x 144 pixels

VS SEGA GAME GEARS

http://www.whatconsole.co.uk/sega.php#GameGear
CPU 8-bit Z80
Clock speed 3.58 MHz
RAM 24 KB
Audio 4 channel
Resolution 160 x 146 pixels
The Game Gear had a bright back light so it can easily be played in the dark. It is possible to show 32 colours on the screen at once, and had many games to help popularity. It was superior to the Nintendo Game Boy but it was firmly fixed in the console market.

2x160 more Pixels and a backlight.24k vs 8k, BUT 32 COLORS vs 2 thats the dealmaker.

You mean battery-efficient Game Boy with a comparatively versatile sound chip vs. battery-hogging Sega Game Gear with a simplistic sound chip.

I would trade the Sound from Tetris for Sonic any day of the week. Maybe it was better chip I never heard it and thought wow listen to the fidelity coming from that shitty looking portable.
Rechargables Rule, most of the time mine was plugged in the wall.
I had a number of handhelds as a child before the GB. Single game handhelds were all mono.My favorite was called epoch man. Ran for months on watch batteries. Still sucked though, just sucked for a long time on same batteries.

Long live the fa-N-boys.

Developers, developers, developers!

[goodenoughnickname]

Granted, this talk of emulation and downloading old games has got me excited, but this quote from Satoru Iwata has got me cracking a fat:

"We are convinced that the Revolution will be most developer-friendly. In this next generation, development costs will move easily into 8 figures. We have created a solution to allow them to exercise creative freedom..."

If the Revolution isn't as powerful as its competitors and has a different control scheme, one game won't be released for all three consoles like they are currently. Games will go to PS3 and XBox 360, and pass Revolution by. This would be a double-edge for Nintendo; less overall titles, but more exclusives. And it's those exclusives I'm excited about.

See, if it's cheaper and less time-consuming to make a game for the Revolution because Nintendo is offering up an abundance of tools, a developer can put more focus into content, can create a game faster, and can sell it for cheaper, all while still profitting from it. I think a lot of developers are paying attention to Katamari Damacy and realizing, "Hey, weird-ass ball rolling games for $20 are super-fun hot-sellers!" But not all developers have the balls/money to take the finacial risk that comes with innovation. Let's hope Nintendo alleviates that pressure.

Anyway, to sum it up, I think fun "pick up and play" games will be a big part of Revolution. You know -- "I have to roll up a huge cow before I go to work... WHAT? COW PYLON?! NO!!!" I mean, why else talk about how fast it boots?

PS3 and XBox 360 are huge, powerful, all-in-one systems that will feature ass-numbing AAA titles, and that's great, but it's a nice move by Nintendo to set up a comfortable camp on the mountain and not battle for the summit. If people buy two of the three consoles this generation, one of them is definitely going to be the Revolution.

Downloadable Content

[aBlooMoon]

Downloadable content consisting of Nintendo's past console games will be a huge selling point for those of us who started out on the NES (or before, and played through the NES). The golden age of gaming, when fun games were still simple. I've used emulators, but they aren't exactly mainstream--neither is the ability to hook them up to the television so you can lounge while playing.

Re:Downloadable Content

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, XBoxes aren't mainstream? The cellphone guy at my local mall chips them for like $50... Tada, entire back catalog of Nintendo on your harddrive (excluding N64)

Yar.

It actually breaks Tetris

[tepples]

I've played at least the original Tetris, Tetris Attack, and Tetris Worlds. And there are good reasons why I think Tetris Worlds blows. I was so frustrated with Tetris Worlds for GBA that I decided to make a better tetramino game for GBA.

Re:It actually breaks Tetris

[Eric S Raymond]

Cool. I'll probably go out and buy a snes now, just
to check out that game. I'm one of those Sega Genesis dudes.
Yeah yeah I know, it was all marketing.

I played tetris worlds on my friends xbox, and
was fairly impressed by it, not having played
a decent tetris game in recent memory since the
nes/gameboy original.

Goes to show ya that snazzy graphics can make the suckiest game seem better than it really is.

Remember Link's Awakening DX?

[tepples]

That is, unless hybrid GameCube/Revolution minidiscs are possible. Remember the "DX" games that could run on Game Boy mono but show up in full color on GBC?

Fan translations?

[tepples]

Downloadable content is phenomenal!!! I can play old favorites quickly and easily with no emulation woes

Unlike a community-maintained emulator, an official emulator probably won't let you patch a fan translation of a Japan-only game to Englisch.

Only FF I, IV, and VI came on on Nintendo in U/C

[tepples]

For a few bucks, I'd gladly download the Final Fantasy games I missed

But will the official emulator let you apply IPS patches containing fan translations? Otherwise, how are you going to play Final Fantasy II, III, and V?

Re:Only FF I, IV, and VI came on on Nintendo in U/

[ignorant_coward]

Well, I meant at least the ones released in the U.S. I never owned an SNES, for example, so there's one or two there I could get.

Controller power light

[tepples]

Is anyone else a little shakey about all these wireless controllers?

If the controller's power light starts flashing, then plug the controller into the console's USB port so that it can recharge. Is there a problem with that?

GBA flash carts

[tepples]

I'm just dreaming but my idea of a revolution would have the capacity to program GBA carts with games I download.

Here's your revolution, and here are the free games.

The New Tetris

[tepples]

If you want to play something like The New Tetris with a twist, try TOD for PC and Game Boy Advance. Or did you mean the Mickey Mouse version?