Slashdot Mirror
Martian Methane May Come From Rocks
An anonymous reader writes "When methane was found in the Martian atmosphere last year, some scientists thought this was indirect evidence of methane-producing bacteria. But minerals such as olivine can create methane in a process known as serpentinization. Geologists calculated that a global, 50-centimetre-thick layer of olivine could account for the methane. One geologist said, 'I'd love to see bugs, but you can't just go on hope. You have to consider the geological options.' Other scientists are unsure whether methane on Mars even exists."
"Cows on Mars." *dunh dunh dunnnhhh*
Look, if a cow can jump over the Moon, it's not much of a stretch to think they can get to Mars. Getting out of the Earth's gravity well is most of the challenge, really.
Maybe that layer is planet wide, and part of a larger living organism that will one day be calling us ugly bags of mostly water.
Well someone had to say it...
alek writes "When methane was found in the Terrestial atmosphere last year, some scientists thought this was indirect evidence of methane-producing bacteria. But animals such as bovines can create methane in a process known as breaking wind. Animalogists calculated that a global herd of 50,000 bovines could account for the methane. One animalogist said, 'I'd love to see udders, but you can't just go on hope. You have to consider the back-end options.' Other scientists are unsure whether methane on Earth even comes from cows."
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
Maybe if we trigger lightning storms in the dense methane areas, we can make amino acids and see Martian life start. XD
Serpentinization requires water to seep through rocks and to get oxidized. If this new interpretation of the existence of methane is indeed correct, then it clearly implies the existence of the large body of water in the recent past (or at present).
/i do have to wonder sometimes, though, how narrow-minded those astrophysicists/planetary scientists are, as opposed to those geologists who have to work really hard to match their theory/experiment with the abundant amount of sample data points on earth.
So in either way it turns out, this is a cool finding.
If we aren't sure, let's keep looking. Send up a few drilling robots and get some serious soil samples. Let's see if there's any water under that dusty ground.
Investigating from a distance is fine for things we can't reach, but Mars is just around the corner, in astronomic terms. We spend all this time sending up little probes when what is needed is not Martian air samples, but Martian soil samples.
Unfortunately it's not profitable to investigate other planets. The benefit to sending up rockets is plain. The benefit of sending rockets to Mars isn't. Until a better form of propulsion comes along to unseat exploding volatile gases in a chamber, we aren't ever going to see the type of financial backing for scientific endeavors necessary to send something significant to Mars.
my pet rock was also very flatulent
to think of something smart to say about this, but I came up short. This story is really dry.
After all, I am strangely colored.
I mean, one scientist looks at a meteor and says, "Oh good there is ancient Mars life in it, "and another looks at the same meteor and says, "Oh no that is a geologic process." One looks at the Viking lander data and says, "Oh check it out life!" and another says, "Nope just an unforseen nonbiotic chemical reaction." Now it is the same argument with Methane. Jeeze, we should just send some dudes over there and get this over with already...
***
1. Go to mars.
2. Light a match.
3. ???
4. Profit
little green man #1: Hey! who farted? that reeks!
little green man #2: It that smelt it dealt it.
The toad can't burp - and for some reason can't fart either, so it swells up and eventually explodes. --Anonymous Coward
Well, hell a 50cm layer of olivine covering a whole goddamn planet is totally feasible.
I wonder why they didn't think of that before?
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
Doesn't everybody know that "it was Julie"?
AccountKiller
We won't get to welcome our new martian overlords.
We raise our slide-rules high.
It has been known for some considerable time, as a result of experiments by the Viking Landers, that the soil had some interesting chemical properties. It is hardly news. However, methane from the rocks and clay cannot be the source, as the methane has been seen concentrated in small regions, whereas the rocks and soil are fairly uniform across the planet.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Trolls are up late tonight I see.
By the way, Reimer, it's the Snake River Stampede. Christ, not only are you a troll, but your lame-ass web page is totally fucked up.
Here's the abstract of the original paper. I can't give a link because it requires a subscription to Science, but I think this is enough.
Detection of Methane in the Atmosphere of Mars
Vittorio Formisano,Sushil Atreya, Thérèse Encrenaz, Science, Vol 306, Issue 5702, 1758-1761, 3 December 2004
We report a detection of methane in the martian atmosphere by the Planetary Fourier Spectrometer onboard the Mars Express spacecraft. The global average methane mixing ratio is found to be 10 ± 5 parts per billion by volume (ppbv). However, the mixing ratio varies between 0 and 30 ppbv over the planet. The source of methane could be either biogenic or nonbiogenic,including past or present subsurface microorganisms, hydrothermal activity, or cometary impacts.
Later in the article, they expand on what they mean by "hydrothermal activity."
On the other hand, methane could have been formed by magmatic processes or stored in methane hydrates for later release to the atmosphere. Terrestrial volcanoes are not a big source of methane, and large-scale volcanism has not taken place on Mars for over 100 million years. However, small-scale outgassing of methane cannot be ruled out. A potentially larger source of methane than volcanism may come from the alteration of basalt at a temperature <150C, a process that also results in the wet-phase conversion of original CO2 into CH4 in a subpermafrost aquifer. In their chemical equilibrium computer model, Wallendahl et al. calculate that as much as 0.2 bar, ~1015 tons, of CH4 could have been produced if the only source of C in this region was the CO2 initially present in the crustal pores. Methane could have been sequestered in stable methane hydrate and gradually risen to the planet's surface. The rate of release to the atmosphere is unknown, but if one assumes that leaking has been taking place at a uniform rate over time, it would amount to ~200,000 tons year-1, which is much greater than the 100 tons or so per year needed to maintain a steady-state mixing ratio of 10 ppbv of CH4 on Mars today. Even if methane from the hydrate is being released at a rate that is a factor of 1000 slower, it would still be sufficient to account for the observations. Finally, recent laboratory experiments confirm abiogenic generation of methane in mineral-catalyzed hydrothermal reactions of CO2 and H2O at 390C and 400 bars, conditions that are likely to be encountered in subpermafrost aquifers or deep under the polar ice on Mars. Moreover, the catalyst used in the experiment--Fe-Cr oxide--is also believed to be present in the martian rocks.
Note that Olivine is Magnesium Iron Silicate (http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/ol ivine/olivine.htm), so that's not the same as the Fe-Cr considered here, but it's not all that far a stretch either.
--Greg
Olivine is green. See this picture of an isolated, but still somewhat famous, green-sand beach in Hawaii
e ach.jpg i th/hawaii02_images2/greensandbeach.jpg
It is green because of all the olivine in the sand, been there myself a few times:
http://www.letsgo-hawaii.com/beaches/GreenSand2_b
http://artemis.austincollege.edu/acad/bio/sgoldsm
If there really is that much olivine on the planet, we are going to have change the nickname from "the red planet" to "the christmas planet."
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Thanks for the correction.
Other scientists are unsure whether methane on Mars even exists.
While many philosophers are unsure whether Mars exists at all, or if it's just a figment of thier imagination.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Did anyone else read "50 centemetre layer of olvaltine?"
Am I the only one that read
Geologists calculated that a global, 50-centimetre-thick layer of ovaltine could account for the methane.
?
comes from Uranus. [ducks]
Damn! Now I must rip my doctoral thesis of how farting Martians have caused the methane.
Nobody knows the trouble I've seen, nobody knows has the trouble seen me, even I sometimes wonder why I write these line
So are we saying martians don't fart??? They must be women then!
Yeah, but re-entry is a bitch. How well do you like your steaks done? ^_^
Please help metamoderate.
Stupid mods. That's INFORMATIVE!
On a serious note, however- people, we need to start meta-moderating more.
Please help metamoderate.
serpentinization:
/.) have deduced that snakes exist on mars, and carved The Face on mars to taunt us.
"Green Alien Snakes Found On Mars!"
Theorists (read -1 redundants/ +5 funnies on
When asked about the mice the snakes would eat, some tightened their alu-foil (tm) hats and started shouting "42! 42!" and ran and hid under the bed.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
There is a hypothesis doing the rounds that nanobacterial metabolism is responsible for depositing mineral plaques from solution.
r ia+olivine&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=nanobacte
Notably, the microfossils found in the martian meteorite are thought to be of nanobacterial origin.
No idea why it was modded -1 it is accully pritty funny...
Damn, who could have guessed that the most laughable concept from "Robinson Crusoe on Mars" -- the hero breaks Martian rocks apart to get breathable air -- is practically true?
http://imdb.com/title/tt0058530/
Course, the reality is, the real rocks are gonna smell like cow manure.
I'll pass, thanks.
So someone or something on Mars has a seriously flatulent nature. Leave the poor thing in peace. Isn't it enough that it's on mars and not here amongst us? Must we make fun of every flatulent person / thing? I'm sure the poor thing feels like the guy who farts in a swimming pool just to have everyone else point and laugh at the bubbles miraculously appearing from his ass.
I say this persecution must stop,
Someone on Mars farted,
And now ET worshippers are broken hearted,
It turns out 'twas only a rock.
-Shaunak
Finding life on Mars would be interesting and change much of the outlook of humanity however I think I would prefer that they don't find life on it. That would avoid the whole debate on the effect of teraforming on Martian life and if we should do it at all.
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
Dear Viking Landers,
"Bob" and I have been married for two years. When we first married, I moved into the home he had been living in for quite some time. The problem? He gave his parents a key to the house, and they are accustomed to using it whenever they wish. I need some advice
-- Northern Belle
Dear Belle,
ARR! ARRR! Ordbøkene er utarbeidde ved Seksjon for leksikografi og målføregransking på Nynorskordboka er gitt ut på Det Norske Samlaget!!!!!
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Most likely producer of methane on Mars?
1. Rocks
2. Bacteria
3. Cows
4. Cowboyneal
...what if there were no rhetorical questions?
We must stop Al-Qaeda from turning all that methane into a planet-sized WMD fart-bomb!!! Please send money to K.Rove immediately. ;)
--- Shoo-be-doo-be-do-wop-say-what-yeah!
Therefore, olivine must be not only green, but also brown. And I have no idea how it sounds.
I'm not insane. My mother had me tested.
Olivine is olive-green.
(I knew that geology elective would come in handy someday.)
"This is totally insecure, but very convenient."
"All that unclaim natural gas is a wildcatter's pipe dream."
Haha. I get it. "pipe dream", because of all of that pipe that will have to be layed down between here and Mars in order to get all of the fuel back to Earth. Haha. Very funny.
What process does produce the methane then?
Olivine+Water -> Serpentine+Methane+?
So:
x*(Mg2SiO4) + y*(Fe2SiO4) + z*(H2O) -> a*(several longish formulas for different kinds of Serpentine) + CH4 + ?
So where's the carbon coming from? I don't see any on the left side? All nice and pretty but carbon isn't all that common outside Earth, and is fundamental for building proteins - that is earth-like life, and there's no methane without carbon.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
The Globe and Mail did a story* last week about this. All over the earth, there are deposits of methane trapped in ice, amounting to an
estimated 565e12 ft^3.
If something similar existed on mars, it could be slowly releasing methane.
*The link seems to work for me about 1/2 the time, and half the time I'm sent to a 'Premium Content, Login Required Page'. Sorry.
And other small bushes
idon'tgiveashit(moreandmorehits)
accurately define good according to a criteria and seek it out.
...how did the rocks learn to cook refried beans?
Next thing you know, Slashdot will be giving measurements in spans, or stone throws. Hey, Slasdot! I'm in the God Damned USA here, how about some frickin inches, eh?
Unlike Mars, Io is also being heavily irradiated and gravitationally tugged at by a massive gas giant (Jupiter). Depending on the composition and orbit of a Jovian moon, these forces alone can be the cause for Io's activity.
Jupiter's gravitational force is so strong, it's prevented the asteroid belt from forming into a planet between Mars and Jupiter.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
"I'm a DOCTOR...not a BRICKlayer!"
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
Thanks for the correction.
While you're working on that retarded page of yours, why don't you take out the picture of that fat chewbacca lookin motherfucker above the menu?
...Of the story I read a bit back about the earth-shattering revelation that apparently Mars is covered in rocks not unlike those which can be found in virtually any desert on our own planet.
I propose that after the next E3, somebody round up all of the booth babes from that event that they can find, drive all of them to wherever it is the scientists who are producing these news stories are conducting their research, and then lock both the scientists and the booth babes in the research facility for the next three weeks or so...preferably also with a large amount of alcohol and/or other controlled substances. Apologies to said women in advance...but think of it as civic duty, ladies. By giving these poor, repressed and lonely individuals that which they are fairly obviously crying out for, it will relieve the rest of us from being forced to hear stupid and obvious "revelations" about the Martian environment every few months.
Theres no carbon in olivine or water.
Would a living source of the methane impart a differential Carbon isotope ratio than non-living source?
I was under the impression than Mars has no appreciable magnetic field, and that a potential explanation for this was the dynamo of molten iron that the earth enjoys had cooled to solidification on Mars.
To be "Martian Methane May Come From Rockets"?
It seems plausible..
You're just jealous because that wookie face isn't yours, darling. :P
I tought methane came from uranus
That's probably not such a substantial amount of rock when compared with the total volume of Mars crust. But how much of Mars' crust actually shows signs of being derived from serpentinized rock? For this amount of methane to exist, it implies that the serpentinization has already taken place. Obviously, given our limited sample set, the answer is "we don't know".
I also wonder how much water it would take to serpentinize that much olivine. (Any geologists/chemists?). Is it only a catalyst or does the water get absorbed or converted by the rock as part of the process?
We are the 198 proof..
Martians with a bad digestive system.
If the average human releases 0.5 to 1.5 L of flatus a day, imagine then how much one of those 'little green buggers' farts.
They already found the layer of ice that can create all of the oxygen you need to live on Mars. You know, the aliens created the nuclear reactor that melts the ice (which creates the oxygen). Arnie already got it running for a while (back in 1990). He used the alias Douglas Quaid (Merlina helped him). He even had to steal a Johnnycab to do it!!! You can get / rent the full story here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100802/
if this is the reason the earth(or "similar" bodies) still has an atmosphere? Beacuse all that gas is still coming up from the ground?
What?