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Patriot Act to be Expanded
m4dm4n writes "It seems that the patriot act is being expanded rather than scaled back after a vote late Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence committee. The FBI has gained new powers to demand documents from companies without a judge's approval, as well as the ability to designate subpoenas as secret and punish disclosure of their existence with up to one year in prison."
... land of the free?
They can do whatever they want without any judges or other laws having to say anything about it and when you go public (or to your lawyer) you go to prison? Isn't that a human rights violation?
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Eurasian spies are everywhere....
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
Kinda makes one wonder when the first people start disappearing. Maybe they already have. At least the commie witch hunts of the 1950's were internal. But you're beginning to scare your neighbors now.
The perception of US 'freedom' is being undermined on a daily basis just like pieces of wood being removed from a jenga tower.
/glad I'm european.
Wonder how long you've got before it topples.
tom-george.comBecause geeks rate higher t
Democracy must not be taken for granted. It needs to be constantly fought for and won, else it will be coopted and lost.
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
The solution to your problems as a resident of the United States may be at hand.
It seems like every bit of political news I get these days makes me think a little bit more about not going back. It saddens me to say this but it's true. Apathy is killing our country. We need to remind people that our empire is not unlike others before. They all fell apart. Ours will too.
When I tell an object to delete this, am I killing it or telling it to kill me?
The best thing about these new laws is there won't be any evidence of abuse of power - anyone who squeaks will be locked up and have their reputation destroyed, its like getting rid of free speech without actually getting rid of it: genius!
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What makes you think he'll stand down after his second term? He's quite content to piss all over your Constitution, so why shouldn't he get a law passed allowing more than two terms of office?
I remember George Bush said that the terrorist _will_ not win. It looks like they have already won to me.
Anyone get the feeling we're becoming more and more of a police state?
We've been a police state since the 1930s; it has just been a relatively benevolent one until now.
If you do not have the choice to do what you want with your own person or property as long as those choices do not directly do physical damage to another's person or property, then you are not free.
Free people can grow whatever plant they want on their own land. Free people can own whatever kind of firearm they want without previous government permission. Free people can say whatever they want about elected officials and those running for elected office without worrying about government election laws.
There are a myriad ways in which the populace of the United States is no longer free, the problem is that most have "grown up" with those restrictions and consider them normal. The next generation will no doubt similarly consider omnipresent "security cameras" and required government permission for vitamin purchase (rules for such being drawn up by the WTO even today) to be perfectly normal.
That's the problem, nobody cares that their democracy (or more accurately their constitutional republic) is dead and gone. It simply baffles me that people are so willing to piss away their freedom and it drives me crazy that I'm in the minority of people who see what's going on. The average US citizen will display his faith and patriotism in the US and all that it stands for, especially after 9/11, even though we have become the very thing we used to stand against; it sickens me.
The Fascist States of America. Look up the definition.
Everyone but the USians have seen this for a while now.
I guess most of you simply do not care.
Dude, your country is viewed as the sole definition of a police state by the rest of the world, might you not have noticed.
0x or or snor perron?!
The fact that he publicly stated this is where it gets interersting, because this leaves open (IMHO) 3 options for the US government:
- US government does not know what Osama said was his reason for attacking the US, and therefor simply react how Osama wants them to react; in this case US government consists of a bunch of morons
- US government knows *damn well* what Osama said and do Osamas bidding, because it suits them well in becoming more like Big Brother
- US government knows what Osama said, but think he is lying. Question is: why would a terrorist be lying? A terrorist wants to get his way, so there is no use in lying about what you want to accomplish through terrorism. Like option 1, US government is filled with morons.
So, US government is either too dumb for words or wants to be like Big Brother. Don't know which of the two is more scary.Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
No need to worry. Because of the ongoing war against Iran it will be necessary for him to stay on for a third term. America needs continuity, and anyone who says otherwise supports the terrorists.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
How can our representatives not see that they are bastardizing our constitutional rights so bad that our forefathers are turning in their graves so hard that they're tunneling out of their coffins. How do the reps not see that we don't really want these rules. George Bush and the reps scream freedom from the tops of their lungs while at the same time strip more and more freedoms away from their own people. Why is it so bad to get judge approval for document retrieval? Yes, it may take a little more work and time, but we need checks and balances, not law enforcers becoming judge and jury on a whim. Along with secret subpeonas, and the rest of the patriot act, they're taking our whole legal system underground and out of our hands. I can't believe how quickly they're trying to take away the fundamentals that make us US Americans, but I'm even more surprised at the rate they're succeeding at it.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
True. He has admitted that he speaks with god or jesus. I suppose he could announce that Jesus told him to serve a third term - and there are enough crazy religious sheeple in this country that would accept it.
I just hope the general freedom thing as a citizen lasts another 40 years. Once I'm dead, to hell with you all. Just don't stick me in a gulag during my life time.
The thing is, you can't expect a society raised by public schools (the government) to question things like The Patriot Act. Remember, these are the same people who today overwhelmingly state that the government should have the authority to censor news papers and that the press has too much freedom and that they should even be required to recieve approval from the government before publishing all stories.
In a society where the young people think we have to much freedom we are seriously fucked. Our young people are supposed to be the rebels. The fighters. The change-makers. Not sheep.
So what is one thing you've done besides bitch about it on Slashdot?
The more you know, the less you understand.
Right, cause there aren't any countries like North Korea that would be closer to the true definition of a police state...
I don't like the Patriot Act either, but we aren't to the point where we have to fear being killed for critizing our leadership or laws either.
The more you know, the less you understand.
Not an American myself, but I'd suspect that you're exactly the kind of person who should be going back to the US to stand up for what you believe in and help turn the current political climate around.
You have to register with you local town hall, this is not for taxes or services or anything(that is all seperate) you just have to register that you are living in there city
In America, you have to "register" with the US Post Office and IRS (and the DMV since you need a state ID or driver's license to exist). And, by way of employment or banking, the social security administration.
You are required to carry identification with you all the time, stopped without it, instant jail.
In America, if you have no identification on you or you refuse to produce it, you are going to be hassled, possibly threatened, and probably detained (perhaps taken to the local station for a lengthy period of time until they sort things out). Though it isn't illegal, lack of identification will get you some serious mistreatment.
Oh, and then there was that case in Texas where the guy was basically arrested for refusing to provide identification on the side of the road by his home.
When you stay at a hotel your information and picture is send to the police.
When you stay at a hotel in America, you need to provide photo identification and a credit card. There are few (and seedy) hotels that will allow you to use cash. And even if you do, they often still require identification and a credit card for security reasons. It's a simple step for the police to locate you or find out where you stayed and when.
No, this isn't Communist China or the STASI. Not yet. But it ain't all that "free", either. Christ, we're letting the MPAA pay the police force in LA to monitor the streets with video cameras for bootlegging. And most big cities have videocamera surveilance at intersections and public gathering spots.
If we think we "aren't like europe", it's only because we've been brainwashed to percieve it that way. Just like, growing up, society brainwashes us to think that America is the only democracy in the world and that everyone else is imprisoned for speaking their mind outside our borders.
This would be the same government who would quite happily lie through its teeth about "Children Overboard", or when handed evidence of a large Chinese spy ring operating in the country seem more concerned with placating the Chinese than getting to the bottom of the whole mess.
I hate to say it but Howard and Co are pretty much as morally corrupt as the Labor Government that sat on its hands while Indonesia invaded East Timor.
Do you know when people are at their most likely to overthrow tyranny? When they're starving, poor and unemployed. Otherwise, they are too busy working and providing for their family and trying to stay alive.
People get up in the morning, commute for a couple hours, work for ten or twelve hours, telecommute for a couple more hours. Feed the family. Pay the bills. Try and save a bit for retirement (or children's education, etc). Fix the broken shit in the house. Spend quality time with the kids and wife. Get some rest before doing it all again the next day.
Only when the majority are starving, poor and unemployed do they have both the incentive and the TIME to put everything on the line and make a change. Otherwise, it's all they can do to keep up with current events, much less act on them.
It's sad, but it's true. And for more of us than would like to admit it.
What bothers me, is that if you have a view that disagrees with the current powers, you are viewed as anti-american. I love my country, but I don't agree with everything they say, democrat or republican, and I don't think anyone should. Our country was built upon questioning authority. But it seems you must have blind faith or else you're viewed a dissenter and a traitor. After 9/11 I realized things had to change, but I don't think the patriot act was the correct way to go about it. It almost makes me fear my own country, because I don't know when I or anyone I know, innocent or guilty, could fall victim to this secret law system.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Good point. We should trust our government. They are better informed than we are. They are more intelligent. The Government knows better than we do what is best for the country. We should not question the government.
So, in your universe, what is the rationale for holding elections at all?
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
I mean, look at the Parent Television Council (I think thats their name) That one group of ultra conservative parents is responsible for something like 97% of complaints to the FCC for indecency in broadcasting, and has almost single handedly changed the policies of the FCC. Although I totaly disagree with what they are trying to do, (kill all the people you want on TV, but don't show love!) I think its amazing that they have bonded together, and been very loud until they got what they wanted. As much as I disagree with their tactics and message, I have to admire the fact that they can do it, and have a little more hope that maybe others will do something similar for what they believe.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
As I expected, many +5 insightful comments have appeared, claiming that american democracy is dead, or that the U.S. is approaching the police state, and so on. I really encourage you folks to try a broader perspective. Of course, those new laws are bad, and abusing citizens' rights, but
1. It's nowhere near the situation during, for example, maccarthyism. Read something about the period. People were out of jobs (or forced out of the country!) for no reason at all, other that they were untruthfully accused of sympathizing with communists. And yet, American democracy survived this, and -- if anything -- became only stronger. Really, you should have more faith in the system's built-in mechanisms. It worked amazingly well for two hundred years.
2. There is absolutely no comparison with the real police states, which are, unfortunately, still very common on our miserable planet. I think, It's insulting for the tortured to death victims in Iran, or China, or Russia, to even compare the minor inconveniences that Americans suffer with the police state actions. Looking from most of the Earth, America is land of the free, regardless how funny you may find this claim.
You US citizens need to put things in perspective. 2,823 died in that attack. Thats very sad but damnit, its not even a drop in the ocean compared to other dangerous things. Almost a million a year dies of off bad diet and no exercise (heart faliure). 90,000 dies in motor accidents. 28,000 people is killed by firearms a year. Where are the tough actions preventing theese much worse sources of death?
9/11 was just an excuse to implement the police state the Neocons always wanted. The things the US hated the most about Russia is now being implemented and the US citizens is just watching on. As long as the media is pumping out false and outrageous propaganda it wont change either.
Damn im glad i dont live in the US!
HTTP/1.1 400
PATRIOT acts on YOU!
Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously. At a time when Russia is just becoming a functioning democracy, I think this is actually pretty ironic.
> no, yes, maybe (tagging beta)
Oh, good. America is still free: criticising the leadership is not a capital offence.
Is that the standard now? America - Land of the Not As Bad As North Korea?
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
I'm not trolling here and perhaps I'm not totally informed, but don't children chant their allegiance to the flag in primary school every day? Isn't it drummed into to everyone to love the constitution? Even though parts of it are hideously outdated and you could argue that every day it is being corrupted further.
Everyone thinks it teaches children patriotism and respect for the authority in place in the country. But it breeds the worst kind of patriotism where people will unquestioningly do whatever their leaders want and will rarely protest against them. True patriots love the landscape, the people and the values they stand for, not some petty symbols and words written on a piece of paper.
Home of the free, land of the brave.
It's easy to say from across the pond, I know -- but you guys..
So it would appear the plan is to protect your freedom by taking it away from you. Way to go.
Sure if you believe the terrorists "hate our freedom" and want to destroy it, these measures may appear to make some kind of sense.
But the fact is most of these terrorists don't mind your freedom, they mind US foreign policy which is supporting their dictators and exploiting their peoples. They are not fighting the US, they are fighting the US' ruthless protection of corporate interests overseas.
Add to that the sheer hypocrisy of imposing measures on others (e.g. no trade tariffs, no agricultural subsidies, no profileration of WMD, etc) while openly refusing to impose same on yourselves.. Frankly, although I despise violence even more than imperialism, I think I understand why people would fight that tooth and nail.
I really hope that you will stop this madness from within -- otherwise the next 911 is just waiting to happen.. And I hate to say it but that one will be your own goddamn fault.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
The country isn't built on blind questioning. Or whining. Or endless nitpicking.
I see what you're saying. But a lot of people don't realize that you can't just say "You're doing it wrong.". Because when you're in leadership you have to do *something*. Give them an alternative that you can prove is better.
I don't see that. I see people throwing out solutions without showing that they put any thought into it. When questioned about the details they freak out about it.
Fighting against the country without a good, thought out reason is being a traitor. A stupid one.
d
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
No,read what I was responding to before posting. The OP said America is the definition of a Police State and I claimed that North Korea would be my definition of a police state.
Ever heard of slippery slope?
The more you know, the less you understand.
Mindless anything is bad. But considering the US is one of the oldest governments of the world, that Consitution is pretty impressive.
I don't remember being taught to love the Consitution. And after 3rd grade, we stopped with the allegiance.
Do you even know what brainwashing means?
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
I have no concerns about identifying myself and smiling for CCTV and other sorts of cameras. In fact, I'm happy that when I sit by the fountain in a European square and watch Europeans play in the sun that there is a monitoring camera that's watching over all to keep them safe. Here is what matters; in Europe I have higher trust that such information gathered won't be misused against me, and that my rights will be respected. I have greater confidence that they care about maintaining human rights and due process, and I won't find myself in a Gitmo-like situation without charge, trial, or such. I have greater comfort in knowing that the majority of the population are liberal-in-mind, respect individual differences, and that like the Swiss just voted to grant the gays further rights, they won't politically lynch the minorities or be easily agitated by expedient Machiavillians, having well learned their lesson from WWII.
What do you prefer? Freedom from terrorists or freedom from the government?
Personally, my answer is freedom from the government. But most people seem to think the other way.
I'm ready to start taking action. I'm ready for civil disobediance, public demonstration and if it comes to it even more drastic action. Actually, I think I just might contact the UW campus and see if I can arraneg a demonstration here in downtown Seattle in the next couple of weeks.
We do not have to assume that our Senators and Congressmen are "stupid" to explain what they do when they're doing stupid things. If you have paid any attention at all to history, you will see that nations do their worst when they are led by a small cadre of despicable people who have managed to position themselves in such a way as to manipulate the appearances of truth, leaving good men (and women) with the choice of following along, or falling from power entirely. Just watching the follies on the hill that surrounded the tradition of fillibustering judicial nominations should be evidence enough of the truth behind the manipulations of our government. Your post needed one more option: "Outmaneuvered on the chessboard of government (being led around by a small group of evil men)"
The average US citizen will display his faith and patriotism in the US and all that it stands for, especially after 9/11, even though we have become the very thing we used to stand against
Well, what do you expect. Americans are indoctrinated from birth that they live in the "shining beacon of freedom, land of the brave and home of the free" and so on. As if other democracies were nothing but pale copies of perfection. I would at times call it blind faith, that nothing bad could happen here almost by definition. And by implication, that makes the US government the leaders of the free world, equally flawless.
Sure, there are political disagreements but everyone thinks they work for the people, in particular to create economic prosperity. And in this regard to protect the people, all out of acting in the people's best interest. As long as you have such a deluded perception of government, it does not matter how big, how intrusive it gets because it is a big, intrusive force of good. As long as the cause is just, disruption of privacy and civil rights is accepted, because the ends justify the means.
Of course, no other organization in history has ever been able to wield that kind of power without succumbing to abuse, persecution, corruption, power grabs, search for personal profit and so on. If you look more closely at the collapse of empires like the Soviet Union, you see that is one of the biggest reasons for their economic and social downfall, more than the ideology itself. But not the US. Because the US goverment is Good, and the Soviet government was Evil. QED.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Vote?
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Amnesty international used the word "Gulag" to provoke a reaction and got an amazing over-reaction. If democracy and human rights have any chance off success then the American people must take that report seriously and demand the "detention" centers be opened up to scrutiny and the people within them given due process. Hiding people in a "black hole" run by the military is by definition the opposite of a freedom loving country. If the US cannot demonstrate the rule of law by example then it does not deserve anymore respect than a warlord in a cave.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Nice try, but real freemasons don't talk about fightclub.
So, Denmark uses an anti-terror law wrong and this means what exactly?
The mark of a free society is that you can get lawyers, go to court and fight things like this. Or has all the members of Greenpeace been rounded up and executed already?
And everyone is grabbing for power around the world. Sheesh. So, your choices are to either understand and deal with these people.
Or post "The sky is falling" on Slashdot. I suppose the latter is easier.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Keep voting Republican and a police state is what you'll get. It's not like their agenda is secret or anything...
True. He has admitted that he speaks with god or jesus. I suppose he could announce that Jesus told him to serve a third term - and there are enough crazy religious sheeple in this country that would accept it.
Anyone who seriously thinks the US is a "police state" right now because of the "war on terrorism" is seriously lacking in historical perspective. The "war on drugs" has been much more harmful to civil liberties for the average American than anything the Bush administration or the last couple of Congresses have done.
As to the original idea - that there are so many "crazy religious sheeple in this country" that GWB could simply declare himself the next coming of Jesus and do whatever he wants: Assuming you're not just kidding, it's a ridiculous statement.
I would happily bet you (or the author of the parent of your post) $1,000 that GWB will not be President of the United States on January 21, 2009. Do you seriously think A) he would just ignore the constitution and B) everyone else would let him get away with it (especially including whomever the Democratic candidate for President is)? How would that work, exactly? He'd call off the election? You think states would stand for that? He'd let the election happen and then...what? Refuse to move out like a tenant who can't pay the rent? If you think that would last more than about three hours you seriously misunderstand this country. Evangelical Christians are a larger percentage of the electorate than I (as an atheist) would prefer, but they are far from a majority in this country. Even if they were able to wield power far in excess of ther size, they are by no means a monolothic block. A large percentage of them, believe it or not, respect the order of law and don't actually want a theocracy in this country (even if they do hold some moral beliefs informed by their religion that I disagree with). Not many of them would want a religiously annointed, unelected leader. Believe it or not.
I mean, you're talking about a man with 45% approval ratings. You seriously think he'd be able to say - whatever his justification - "I'm not going to give up this office," and other people - especially the other people who want said office - are simply going to let him do it?
As to your last point, I agree that I wish people were more educated about the unalienable rights we have. I wish more people understood the way the Constitution attempts to lock the government off to prevent those rights being trampled on. But that's not a new, unique phenomenon - the average American is woefully uneducated about much of our laws and history. I recall reading in the 80s that a majority of high school seniors identified the phrase "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" as being a phrase from the US constitution. So, having no idea what's in that document isn't a new phenomenon.
In summary: The ACLU needed to be screaming more about the rights we lost in the war on drugs. Most of this Patriot Act whining they're doing now is over things of little actual consequence. My fear is that, like the boy who cried wolf, when some future Congress or President really does try to institute a police state no one will be paying attention to the ACLU because "they always scream about everything, but nothing really bad ever happens."
Sorry, but have you ever been to the U.S.?
Your trails of "almost by definition" to "by implication" to QED is ludicrous.
Sure, there are political disagreements but everyone thinks they work for the people, in particular to create economic prosperity.
I don't think I've ever met anybody who believes this. On the contrary, suspicion and mistrust of government is common to almost every political viewpoint anyone holds in this country. Why do you think every politician runs against Washington, no matter how long he's been there?
The simple truth is that people fail to oppose the patriot act because it has zero visible impact on their lives, not because they believe it derives from the heavenly benevolence of government. Argue along that axis (and please, with something less sci-fi than endless repetitions of "They came for...") and you will win every argument you have about the PA.
The stupidity of the right presents such a fantastic opening to its opponents, but they all seem to prefer to scream "brainwashed fascists!" instead of trying to actually win the debate. It's really pathetic.
Kill, Tux, kill!
So, let me get this straight...
Having people pledge alliegence to the Country they belong to is a bad thing? That's brainwashing?
And the Consitution, the one piece of paper the entire government is built on. The base document that all three branches of the government are sworn to uphold. The document that's so important that the highest court in the land exists only to rule whether a law is consitutional or not.
That's kind of important, don't you think?
I've never heard of any brainwashing to "Love the consitution." but once you see the rules and the reasoning behind it, you should see that it's a damn good set of rules.
And the rich and powerful always, ALWAYS have a say in how the government is run. In any country. At any time. That's the nature of reality man, and not liking it is normal. Having the tools to fight it varies from country to country.
The reason most citizens don't ask questions about how the govenrment is run, is because most citizens are fine with the way the government is running. Tell them what they need to know to accomplish the objectives in their life and then get out of their way.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Terrorists don't exist in vaccum. They exist in reaction to something bugging them. Stop bugging them and they will have no reason to cause terror. Every bit of reaction from 9/11 had nothing to do with fixing the reasons it happened and everything to do with bugging the hell out of the entire planet. First it was a feel wacky arabs pissed. Now it's the entire planet. Way to go...
What makes you think that this is all Bush.
This is an act of the Legislature. Bush can't do this. We can't blame Bush for EVERYTHING. There are a couple hundred people responsible for these laws.
You have one or two from YOUR STATE. Write them. Tell them to stop.
Yes, it is a bad thing. You can see it on CNN, you can see it in the attitudes of American tourists overseas. They think that, just because random chance led them to being born in the USA, they are somehow a higher form of life than everyone else. Pride in your country should come from the actions of the people themselves striving to better themselves and their country, not from some dogmatic pledge injected into every childs brain.
Good point. I've had this conversation with many "fellow Americans" (I live abroad and have no desire to go back due to things like this.)
It always astounds me how many people simply don't care about what many of us consider to be essential civil liberties, or are totally sold on the idea that such draconian laws are necessary to fight terrorism, drugs, child molestation, whatever. It's like arguing with a wall.
There are extremists on both sides of the American political spectrum; the problem is that the "conservatives" (what a stupid term--I think we should start calling them "nationalists") have this crisis of conscience where the social fanatics support the same sort of governmental power that the "my country, right or wrong" types do. And yet they all vote together. On the other side, most moderates or "liberals" have this problem that the wackjob leftist faction is making them look bad.
Bit of a ramble, I apologize, but the upshot is that you have a fairly large minority are very upset about the seeming inability of many voters to grasp the underlying issues, and to understand that the reasoning given for this kind of stuff (to protect the homeland!) is horseshit, smoke & mirrors and is dooming much that the US stands for.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
I have a slightly offtopic question. Namely, I was wondering why the politics section in Slashdot has a white hat as its symbol, when all the stories seem to be about politicians doing bad things ?
Wouldn't a black hat be more appropriate ? Maybe even Darth Vader's helmet ?-)
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Step 1: Constitution
If this step is done right it should protect citizens from the government, each other and outside forces.
Step 2: Law enforcement and homeland security
Write laws dictating how those constitutional rights will be protected and how this will be financed. Execute the plan.
Step 3: Sit back and relax
Any law passed after this will only increase the power of the government to harm the citizens. A perfect constitution would, in theory, prevent this from happening.
Like the subject reads, this is just Government in theory. Government in practice always seems to fail miserably at all three steps and wind up with so much legislation that no single person could understand it all.
I don't think there should be blind questioning either. But if the patriot act, an act that none of us can know the entire content of, that takes away such important constitutional rights, can't be questioned, than what can? Ideally, a person should have an alternative when disagreeing with a proposal, but at times, a person knows that something is wrong even if they don't know exactly the right answer. Truth is, sometimes doing a nothing that is right, is better than doing a something that is wrong. Maybe I don't have the answer to what should be done, but someone else may. But once that wrong action is taken, it's hard to go backwards, which makes it hard to erase the wrong action and replace it with the correct one, which may have taken a little more time to bring to fruition.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Interesting. And how do you know it's from the dogmatic pledge and not from seeing the other country and going "Well, it's nice, but I wouldn't want to live there."?
I've been to many other countries. And lived in them. I don't recall many natives there striving to better themselves and their country. It seems that they were just working, raising kids, and doing other things to enjoy life.
Why do you set the bar higher for Americans?
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
That's what I thought...
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Replace Europe with America in your post and re-read.
;) )
Do you get it ? American government and Europeans governments do almost the same (Europe being just about 10 years behind), people are just brain-washed into thinking that THEIR government won't misuse these informations while the other will.
About people being more respectful of individual differences : I think it's because you generalize from governments positions to people ideas. American government being full of neo-cons doesn't mean every American is (but I might be wrong, I never went to the USA
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
Quite simple really. There will just be another 9-11 event prior to the election and the election will be canceled for reasons of national security. Go check the history books, it's a tried & tested formula.
Where the FUCK is the judicial branch? Hello? Checks and balances? Wake up, courts! Congress is planning to expand their craptastic Patriot Act so that the executive branch can go gathering information WITHOUT YOUR APPROVAL. Seriously, if I was a judge, I'd be so incredibly pissed off. I'd like to hope that this would never make it by the Supreme Court, but I'm beginning to think that's too much to hope for. Disclaimer: I'm a conservative, but I no longer consider myself a Republican. The actions recently on behalf of both parties is reprehensible. The government stopped working for the people a long time ago. One almost wants to say "revolution," but then that would make you the "T" word wouldn't it?
--------
This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along.
The person they voted for in my state, and won by a large margin, isn't the president... How many people have you heard that wouldn't even think of voting for a 3rd party candidate, because it was wasting a vote?
I'm always amazed by people who say they wouldn't vote for a 3rd party, and then go on to vote for the guy who loses anyway.
I often think that if all you people who said "well, I would vote for a 3rd party, but can't because then the wrong candidate will win!" just went and voted for your 3rd party, that 3rd party guy would win!!
the upshot is that you have a fairly large minority are very upset about the seeming inability of many voters to grasp the underlying issues, and to understand that the reasoning given for this kind of stuff (to protect the homeland!) is horseshit, smoke & mirrors and is dooming much that the US stands for.
I have to admit, I do feel powerless in the USA. I don't talk politics anymore, because I'm afraid I'll piss someone off, due to it being such a divisive issue (but, hey, this is online, and I don't have to be near anyone I piss off). But the feeling of powerlessness is really very hard to deal with sometimes. I (like many on slashdot) am a liberal, and when I see things like the "Nuclear option" threaten to happen in congress, it scares me. When the party that won the last election 51% to 49% now sees fit to force its policy onto 100% of the country, and when the democrats stand up and say "Hey, we've affirmed a lot of your nominees, but this one is just over the edge.", the party in power threatens to take their ball and go home if they don't get their way.
And I don't even understand everything that goes on in washington. I mean, I have my views: basically, I want peace, separation of church and state, and social progressivism, but it's really hard to find someone on the hill that believes the same things I believe in that's not an asshole.
I dunno, I always see people saying "If you're unhappy with the government, vote! Get involved!". But what happens when you really do vote, and nothing happens. What happens when you're part of the 49% and yet it feels like no agenda you support is ever taken into consideration, much less acted upon. Plus, I'm so damn busy working 50+ hours a week and taking care of the 1 year old so that maybe someday my wife and I can close this gap between the haves and the havenots and maybe, just maybe, afford a house.
~Will
sig?
As such an "in touch" person who sees what's really going on - you do realize that most of the powers the Patriot Act gave to the FBI to fight terrorists, it's had to fight the drug war since 1982? And to fight Medicare fraud since 1997? And have been used by federal agencies from OSHA to the SEC in the verification of their regulations? That, in fact, the only thing that's kept the FBI from using these powers against you for the past twenty years is that they're either basically honest or just don't give a damn about you?
The war on drugs did far more to trample the rights of the citizens of the US than the war on terrorism ever has (or will). People whining about this stuff now have been asleep at the switch for a very long time. You want to crusade for freedom - don't start trying to block minor enhancements to FBI power like this. Start by trying to roll back all the laws and court decisions over the past twenty years that have rolled back your 4th and 5th amendment rights, that have elimninated any expectation of privacy in financial transactions, that have made it very difficult to do anything significant in cash. Undo law enforcement's ridiculous powers to sieze your property without trial and sell it for their profit. End racial profile stops that result in drug searches.
It's not some Bush or Republican plot. They're just trying to do to terrorists what we've been doing to drug users and dealers for a really long time. The elimination of our rights has come from both parties, as they've both controlled Congress and the White House over the time this has occurred. If you're mad at Bush personally about the Patriot Act, you're blinding yourself to the fact that it passed the Senate 98-1. No party or president has a monopoly on favoring expedience over principle. While Brave Democratic Senators stand up against these largely meaningless provisions of the Patriot Act, no person in any party is making any move to restore the rights we've already had stolen from us.
This Patriot Act crap is mouse nuts compared to what Congress and the courts have done to our rights in order to stop demon weed over the past two decades. I'll be impressed with your clarity of vision when you start being mad about the stuff that's important.
Well, then things are going to happen sooner rather than later, as it was on the news today (well, at least here in Belgium) that 36 million americans live in a family where there is not enough food.
Considering the majority of Americans are categorized as "overweight" or "obese", please define "not enough food".
In the U.S. the majority of the attitude is defined by apathy, "Praise Jesus!" and "pass the french fries".
The only revolution in sight is the one from Nintendo.
-Charles
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
"For the republic for which it stands..." Welcome to the American Democracy!
Can someone who isn't already a Libertarian tell me what a republic is? I thought not. On the surface they look the same- they both vote. But in a republic you have RIGHTS some of which are inalienable and others which are granted by consitutions. No one may violate your rights without first going through the steps ("Due Process")
It is in a democracy that you have no rights, though there are votes. The majority may vote themseves any privialge they wish. They can vote your wife, mother, or sister to be community property. Such an act is repugnant to a republic.
With the Patriot Act, and the subsequent expansion, we are venturing down a road where "Due Process" is a mere inconviennce or completely disregardable. Forget rights, lets turn this into a demoracy because it is more convienent for the governement. Hogwash. Governing was never meant to be easy. I'll show you "easy governing" it's called a dictatorship. WE CANNOT ALLOW THIS TO CONTINUE. Due Process is a requirement of any "republic".
Stop the slippage now. Write your senators and represenatives. Vote Libertarian. Restore the Republic!
"So this is how liberty dies? With thunderous applause?" - Amadalia, SWIII:RotS
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
How many of you have the balls to actually read these two columns from that ultra-right-wing, reactionary Washington Post:
Amnesty's Amnesia
Hyperbole and Human Rights
You can't call Applebaum and Dionne apologists for W, either.
Unfortunately, registration is required, so here's some tidbits:
"Why do President Bush's critics make life so easy for him?"
Why does gulag matter? The word refers to the vast machinery of political subjugation created by Joseph Stalin in the Soviet Union and comes from the acronym for Glavnoe Upravlenie Lagerei , or Main Camp Administration. As my Post colleague Anne Applebaum noted in her Pulitzer Prize-winning book, "Gulag," it eventually came to refer to "the system of Soviet slave labor itself, in all its forms and varieties."
These included "labor camps, punishment camps, criminal and political camps, women's camps, children's camps, transit camps," Applebaum wrote. Gulag also came to stand for "the Soviet repressive system itself," including "the arrests, the interrogations, the transport in unheated cattle cars, the forced labor, the destruction of families, the years spent in exile, the early and unnecessary deaths."
"A few years ago I spent several days sitting in the back of a library in London, reading through newsletters, pamphlets and other accounts of Soviet prison conditions published in the 1970s and '80s by Amnesty International. Sometimes these reports were remarkably detailed, testifying to the extraordinary ability of prisoners to smuggle out their stories. One included the memorable observation that on Sept. 13, 1979, the prisoner Zhukauskas "found a white worm" in his soup. A more harrowing 1987 news release told the story of the hunger strike and prison death of dissident writer Anatoly Marchenko. His widow, denied a death certificate or a proper funeral, wrote his name in ballpoint pen on his makeshift grave."
"Amnesty, in other words, was an organization that once knew the meaning of the word "gulag." Amnesty also once knew the importance of political neutrality. On its Web site, the organization still describes itself as "independent of any government, political ideology, economic interest or religion." In the Cold War era, this neutrality was important, since it prevented the organization's publications, whether on prison food or prison deaths, from being seen as propaganda for one side or another.
I don't know when Amnesty ceased to be politically neutral or at what point its leaders' views morphed into ordinary anti-Americanism. But surely Amnesty's recent misuse of the word "gulag" marks some kind of turning point. In the past few days, not only has Amnesty's secretary general, Irene Khan, called the U.S. prison for enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, "the gulag of our times," but Amnesty's U.S. director, William Schulz, has agreed that U.S. prisons for enemy combatants are "similar at least in character, if not in size, to what happened in the gulag." In an interview, Schulz also said that foreign governments should prosecute U.S. officials, as if they were the equivalent of the Soviet Union's criminal leadership."
"Amnesty, by misusing language, by discarding its former neutrality, and by handing the administration an easy way to brush off "ridiculous" accusations, also deprives itself of what should be its best ally. The United States, as the world's largest and most powerful democracy, remains, for all its flaws, the world's best hope for the promotion of human rights. If Amnesty still believes in its stated mission, its leaders should push American democratic institutions to influence U.S. policy for the good of the world, and not attack the American government for the satisfaction of their own political faction."
Do you have an alternative?
That is, do you have an alternative that *doesn't* eventually devolve into a totalitarian state run by a select elite?
Regards;
thinking:
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
I am NaN
"I think it's time for a new chancellor. A strong chancellor!"
As a german I must say we had this before, a democrcy being turned into a dictatorship and I think that's where Lucas borrowed from in the prequels. I can see some of these tendencies in the US too. And I must say I am worried...
> Terrorists don't exist in vaccum. They exist in reaction to something bugging them. Stop bugging them and they will have no reason to cause terror
How the hell did this get marked insightful?
Tim McVeigh was bugged by the Federal government. Maybe we should dismantle that after he brought his gripe to our attention with the OKC bombing.
The white-supremacists who burned those black churches a couple of years ago were probably bugged by all the black people in the country. Perhaps we should deport them.
A lot of arab-muslims seem to be bugged by the fact that we do not govern ourselves by Sharia law, women in the US vote, drive, and sometimes dress immodestly, we are a nation of infidels etc. etc. -- perhaps we should become an Islamic state to appease them...
You have to do what you believe is right, and not be swayed by people who try to make a point by murdering innocents.
At what point do they STOP being bugged?
A little study of history shows us that point comes at no reasonable compromise.
Furthermore, not everyone is even INTERESTED in reasonable compromise.
I've voted Republican since I was 18. I'm now 36. That's almost 20 years of voting. You know what. I'm starting to have some real second thoughts on doing so again. I don't want to start any flame war here on this, but the only real reason I vote Republican is because I hate abortion. Again, no flame wars, as I have the right to vote my conscience, as do all of you.
Bush and his ilk have taken a once prosperous populace and forced us all to fund a war the majority of people find leaves a bad taste in their mouth. And to believe I actually once spent six years in the same military. Had I been in now, I would be in real trouble, as I don't believe in what we are doing and where we are going.
This country isn't built on blind obidence. Or shutting up. Or ignoring the details.
I see what you're saying, but a lot of people don't realize that this country WAS built by people whose common ground was saying "You're doing it wrong" and who worked out the details later.
And in this case, the "patriot" act is an act of treason. I don't care how thought out the details are, they're pushing this country and the world in the wrong direction.
The stupid traitors here are the congresscritters who are pushing this, and the ones who are allowing it to happen.
And as for details, I'd far rather risk my life by letting a few terrorists go free than have everything this nation is supposed to stand for destroyed in the name of "security". We don't need the "patriot" act. We never did.
You mean the ones that keep the president from pandering to California/New York/Florida and telling the rest of us to fuck off?
That part?
Funny that people think the power rests in the executive branch.
The problem is not Republicans, or Democrats, or Greens, or Libertarians, or any other group that decided they'd get some recognition if they labeled themselves with a sophisticated-sounding word.
The problem is that people are stupid. That's all. Personally, yes, I would love to have the freedom to say and think and do whatever I like, but I'm totally unconvinced that people in the US or anywhere else are intellectually equipped to handle anything remotely like freedom.
If you're one of the people who actually thinks logically and rationally about things: sorry, but you're in a very small minority, which would explain why elections don't turn out the way you'd like.
Terrorists are pissed off about America's policies in THEIR countries. Its only American arrogance that makes people think that they give a shit what happens within americas borders.
Dissent is dead and buried. Sure, while you might not automatically be arrested attending a protest, you can be guaranteed that the people in power will ignore you, and that their cronies and financiers (who control the media) will either marginalize you and your cause or portray you in the worst possible light.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
At what point do they STOP being bugged?
Have you tried NOT bombing them for say, one whole year?
Because that hasn't happened once in my entire lifetime.
A little study of history shows us that point comes at no reasonable compromise.
Furthermore, not everyone is even INTERESTED in reasonable compromise.
And you are right, many people, the U.S. government, for example, are not interrested in reasonable compromise. It's "do as we say, not as we do" while they kill with their own bombs at a ratio of 10 to 1 in reaction to a terrorist bombing.
You can't take the sky from me...
Having people pledge alliegence to the Country they belong to is a bad thing? That's brainwashing?
Thank you for demonstrating what a huge failure the U.S. educational system is. You have demonstrated that you can't even critically regard a topic you have lived with all your life as well as a failure to understand the history behind the pledge of allegiance. It was written by a socialist who wanted to celebrate columbus arriving in the Americas. It originally had different text and did not include "under god" even though the author was a minister, and originally everyone did the whole right-arm salute thing at the end, but then we decided we looked too similar to the nazis and changed that too. Kinda interesting the parallels with the last part huh? The Nazis used patriotism as a tool to control Germany, as a result a lot of people surrendered their will and critical thinking to the government and did horrible things, all the while thinking it was "for the greater good" of the German nation.
Pledging to uphold and ethical or moral principal is one thing, pledging allegiance to a country or document, either of which can be remade to do horrible things is foolish and dishonorable. Indoctrinating children into believing that they have to align their beliefs and actions with those of the country in which they happen to be born, or for that matter eliciting an oath from someone who is too young to understand and be bound by such a thing is wretchedly unethical. It's like a parent making their four-year-old swear to always do exactly what uncle Tom says, no matter what, without considering whether what he says to do is ethical or not. Blind obedience is not a virtue.
A lot of countries in the western world don't govern themselves by Sharia law, women in those countries vote, drive and dress immodestly; but they haven't been attacked by islamic terrorists nor are they hated by the islamic world as you americans are.
Perhaps it might be that those are not the real reasons. Maybe it's because all of these other countries don't invade other arabic (or non arabic) countries just to benefit their oil industry, nor have they supported oppresive dictatorships just because those dictatorships benefit U.S. interests in their region. Or maybe because the whole U.S. pro-freedom/pro-democracy propaganda is pure bullshit, because the U.S. goverment has not supported democratic elected goverments if they were against U.S. interests. (google for "Salvador Allende")
Their children and grand children haven't learned these lessons of history as well as some of our contemporaries in Germany, Russia and other parts of Europe. As the leading example, no pun intended, we have today a child of a Veteran of World War II in the White House, leading the charge to trade a reduction in civil rights in this country for promised increases in security. On the bright side, there is a debate going on here, a public debate. Consider Bruce Schneier's recent book Beyond Fear, which seeks to help us learn how to consider the trade-offs that security decisions require at all levels, personal and societal.
The terrorists who struck The World Trade Center want a world run by an archaic, theocratic totalitarianism with eye-for-an-eye style justice meted out by them and their hand-picked like-minded sociopaths. When we give up civil rights to fight terrorism, the terrorists gain ground. However, we have many checks and balances here and we are a very long way from sliding into totalitarianism of any sort here in the U.S. Unfortunately there are many people who don't see the slippery slope when they step out upon it.
Back on the bright side, today we have more interaction between the people of different countries than ever before. The internet provides opportunity for dialog between the citizens of different countries which is historically unprecedented. German students come to the U.S. and talk to their friends about history, Russian emigrants in the U.S. talk to their friends about what's happening now in Russia, and how strange it is to see things like secret subpoenas and detention without charges and trials in the U.S. I've heard examples of both groups express surprise in conversations with young Americans ignorant of history, "Don't you realize this is how Fascism starts?" With fear. Yoda got that right, for sure. As a citizen of the United States I would like to thank you for remembering and reminding us. There are many of us here who appreciate your patience. We are a young country, but an old Democracy. With your help, we will make it through this without sliding into an Orwellian 1984, nor a Fascistic 1934.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
At what point do they STOP being bugged?
A little study of history shows us that point comes at no reasonable compromise.
I can think of quite a few cases where compromises have been reached:
1. The end of apartheid in South Africa
2. Northern Ireland
Neither of those two solutions were perfect, but in both cases terrorism was effectively stopped by the two parties making a compromise.
Now please name a few cases from history where a compromise could not be reached and where terrorism was then stopped by all out warfare.
siener's youtube channel
A lot of arab-muslims seem to be bugged by the fact that we do not govern ourselves by Sharia law, women in the US vote, drive, and sometimes dress immodestly, we are a nation of infidels etc. etc. -- perhaps we should become an Islamic state to appease them...
Repeat after me: The terrorists don't give a shit what happens inside America. The terrorists don't give a shit what happens inside America.
Got that?
They are bugged by U.S. foreign policy. They are bugged by U.S. military bases in the Middle East. The are bugged by the support that the U.S. gives to Israel etc. etc.
This "they hate us because of our freedoms" is 100% bullshit.
siener's youtube channel
I would like to petition the government for an amendment to the U.S. Constitution which will read as follows:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
If we only had some language like that in the Constitution we'd be protected from these expanding government powers. But I doubt that enough elected officials or the people would ever support such a radical notion.
Real conservatives have let fake Conservatives steal their name. In exchange for getting carried along with the power grab. Except few actual conservatives have any power in the deal, and the fake conservatives use their unprecedented power to destroy much of what true conservatives value. In the bargain, though, lots of true conservatives have become fake conservatives. Because they value the power more than they value what they used to say they would conserve, until they had to actually do it.
--
make install -not war
For me, this is what started it all: http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/May 14-05-Gagged%20but%20not%20Dead.htm It's unreal.
Sometimes you think these guys have spent a LOT of time studying the Nazi takeover in Germany and 1984.
Who wants to bet that Co-Intel Pro (or the modern equivalent) is already up and running again.
Me must give up our freedoms to keep our freedoms. Hah, I'll take rampant terrorism over THEIR brand of freedom.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Perhaps 36M Americans don't get enough food. However, this isn't due to a lack of money for the food. The welfare system ensures everyone can have enough to eat.
The government's War on Drugs, improper care for the mentally ill, and welfare system that often encourages dumb behavior (such as having many kids to receive more money or poorly timed withdraw of benefits upon re-employment) promotes poverty.
Dumb choices such as buying Twinkies and soda pop rather than meat and milk causes the poor nutrition. Trading food stamps for recreational drugs is another choice that leads to bad diet.
http://www.marxist.com/
There is this new thing called civil-disobedience, some Indian guy invented it I think. People could concievably try that one out too...
Expanding the patriot act will make the law enforcement agencies better able to do their job (i.e. more efficient). That's not necessarily a good thing. There is another name for efficient government. Fascist dictatorships. The US Government is the most powerful in the world. The worst thing that could happen would be for it to also be the most efficient in the world. The Italians commented under Mussolini that he had the trains running on time. Efficient.
The founding fathers designed this government to be inefficient & slow, with checks and balances to impede legislation. Freedom means accepting risk.
We should not be so afraid of risk that we are willing to give up freedom and privacy. We put up with greater risks every day and don't take such extreme precautions. We drive down the street in 2 ton automobiles within feet of drivers we don't know. We go to work in buildings with hundreds of people we don't know. Risk is all around us. As a matter of fact, the entire US system of government is based on increased risk in favor of freedom. A simple example is the basic idea that a person innocent until proven guilty. That assumption assures that more guilty people will go free than innocent people will go to jail. We, as a society agree we are willing to walk among dangerous criminals so that we do not endanger the freedom of individuals.
Laws build up, they don't expire. Even those with built in expiration dates like the Patriot act don't go away when they expire, they get bigger. National ID cards restrict travel, expanding the Patriot Act reduces freedom of expression, national "public" schooling makes us think both are OK.
Abandon the two party system (there are really only minor differences between them anyway) and vote for an oddball.
Suggestion Slashdot editors - How about reporting "the Senate Intelligence Committee is GOING to vote on the Patriot Act next month" instead of "It seems that the patriot act is being expanded rather than scaled back AFTER a vote late Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence committee." Your way reports the news & let's us all complain about how we all just lost some freedom. My way lets us mobilize and tell our representatives what we think.
Real terrorists are Evil. There is no moral ambiguity here. They need to be hunted down and destroyed. They cannot be reasoned with -- you've seen the propaganda videos, those young men and women suicide bombers have been completely brainwashed.
On the other hand, they only need to be stopped when they're in a position to harm our citizens. I don't support unilaterally going to war in Iraq. Yeah, they harbor terrorists, but they're half a world away. When they enter the US, bust 'em hard, but don't throw away thousands of lives in some desert somewhere out of some sort of misplaced revenge motive.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
Something most people are missing (some, like Declan, intentionally), is that you do not lose your right to have judicial oversight of the subpoena. You have the right to get judicial review of the subpoena before complying with it. Maybe that's not a good thing, but all those who imply that our Fourth Amendment rights are being violated are simply incorrect. Maybe the spirirt is being violated; that's a judgment call, but it certainly is not as bad as many make it out to be.
Funny how when you learn more about something, it's often not as bad as it first seems.
Thanks for this post. I especially appreciated this line, but not for it's intended purpose. Frankly, it made me cringe....
The terrorists who struck The World Trade Center want a world run by an archaic, theocratic totalitarianism with eye-for-an-eye style justice meted out by them and their hand-picked like-minded sociopaths.
You know why? Because from my perspective, those hard line "conservatives" (very large air quotes) who run our government speak about this daily...
A slogan of the Texas republican party (of whom George W Bush is the most prominent member) states "The Republican Party of Texas affirms that the United States is a Christian nation." Several right-wing organizations actively state "Jesus Christ is Lord in all aspects of life, including civil government." Among other things, the push for Christian Theocracy is more thinly veiled at the top reaches of our power structure (and actually spoken openly in some circles) than it has been since 15th century Puritans.
In addition, today's "conservatives" are leading the push to increased usage of the Death penalty and increasing mandatory sentences while reducing or in some cases completely removing the judiciary's ability to diverge from these mandatory requirements due to extenuating circumstances. This is the first time in America, at least since the Salem Witch trials where the punishment for certain crimes far outstrips the damage or harm caused by that crime. One great example involves "crimes against children". While there are serious crimes perpetrated, the sentencing for such crimes has grown significantly out of proportion with actual research findings showing harm and danger to children. A simple pat on the butt or even a hand on the shoulder can net a mandatory minimum sentence of more than 10 years, though studies show that non-penetrative abuse is statistically shown to have very small long term effects on children when the issue is treated with open discussion, trust and patience.
Small-time drug usage also has been shown to have statistically very little negative effect on society as a whole, but is punished with ever-increasing sentences that far outstrip the crime.
On top of this, top officials in our government often speak of the courts or opposition parties as "getting in the way of progress" when they strike down things like the patriot II and DMCA or the Internet Decency Act... when in reality they are struck down because they grossly infringe on our rights as citizens and people. The proper reaction is to be embarassed that they would make the MISTAKE of outstripping their power,but instead they vow revenge and simply re-write the bills with more "sneaky" language to see if they can get them passed in a second round of voting.
Then, they push laws giving the executive branch power to overrule (war powers act) and oversee (2001 PROTECT act) the legislative branch and judicial branch. Soon, they are appointing chairmen sympathetic to their cause regardless of their qualifications to handle the job and instituting collective organizations through wich they can better consolidate the power base and coordinate covert activities and actions. And a small bit of trivia, KGB loosely translates to "Comittee for Motherland Security" through which most Soviet intelligence and covert operations took place. That was Stalin's equivalent to consolidate his power into a single state entity that reported directly to him rather than to other arms of his power base.
I won't even go into the list of seven countries who have directly violated UN resolutions in the last 5 years (S Korea, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, US) or the countries that have executed minors in the last 25 years (Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, US) or the first-world countries that currently prisioners without trial and without recourse (uhhh US, maybe Russia, China, if they count) or should I point out that the US was the second greatest contributor to what are referred to today as "terrorist organizations", as recent
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
I've been called a 'troll' several times too, but mostly by small-minded people that didn't like what I had to say, because it involved criticism.
But so what? It's proof one is doing something good, I say, if people try to use a common fallacy (claiming someone is a troll to invalidate what he says, while, even *IF* he was a troll, it still wouldn't say anything about the validity of *what* he said) to shut you up.
That said - and mind you, I have had experience with (the stiffling of) free speech, as one can see on my blog - I do think slashdot is one of the greatest systems invented yet, to allow ALL people their free speech. It is true: things that are considered crap get a low rating, and people can decide to skip that, but in principle, you ARE given the possibility to speak your mind and to be read by the public that wishes so.
Look at this thread: even while you are on 'troll, -1' I still read your post, and I still replied.
So, first of all, I doubt you are being targeted for political reasons; slashdot may have a 'libertarian' viewpoint most of the time, there are enough zealots from the right and left (both to the extremes and not) to be pretty balanced on the pure political side.
But, even if you *are* being targeted for political reasons, it is incorrect to claim your right to free speech has been taken away. If they would *delete* it, yes, then you might have a point. But because the readers rate your postings low, does not mean you are derived of your free speech right on this forum, IMHO.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---