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DOJ Wants ISPs to Retain All Customer Records
doubledoh writes "CNET reports that the Department of Justice is 'quietly shopping around' the idea of requiring ISP's to retain all data of their customer's online activities for at least several months. The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years, but it looks like John Q. Public may also soon be subject to similar Constitutional violations. Big Brother, here we come."
Personally I find this to be a little hard... logs aren't small things and there would be a large amount of log volume.... so I don't see it taking off.
I'm friends with the youngest daughter of the former head of the PowerPC division of IBM you insensitive clod!
innit?
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
Does this mean I have to start snooping on my patrons, even if I don't currently? At the moment, I don't even store who's using the machines, let alone browsing habits.
If the government tries to make that happen, the ISPs and users of the world will shout out a resounding "Fuck You". Not only is that invasion of privacy, it is technologically very difficult to store such a massive amount of information.
I just love it when people try to regulate something that they know nothing about.
land of the free indeed. such idea's come from idiot pencil pushers with no technical savy. if i was to engage in an activity which i didn't want to be monitored, i'd encrypt the traffic and i sure as hell wouldn't be using my home internet account to do it. a law like this is going to be used to spy on it' citizens and deny them liberty, not to catch criminals.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
You are secure in your documents. However, these are the documents of the ISP.
Those documents can't be trawled without a court order, so there isn't really anything about this that is in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
It may be a little bit distasteful in its invasion of privacy, but it is no more unconstitutional than cameras at intersections or strip searches at the airport.
Oh no... If you want privacy then, you need to use an ISP abroad :-o
I can just imagine the speed of a modem connection to Elbonia...
When are they going to start recording every second of every phone call?
So if I build my own private internet, and don't connect it to the real internet, am I free of the logging requirement?
How about if I have my own virtual internet, running on top of the real internet? Do I become a virtual ISP and then I have to keep logs?
What if I don't use the same physical protocol to move bits? E.g. instead of volatages on a wire, I used morse code or smoke signals -- do I then esacpe the logging requirement?
How big can a LAN/WAN be before it becomes the internet (assuming it isn't connected to the unfree Al Gore created internetwork)?
What if the information is not contained in the protocols, but some side-channel? Do I, as an ISP (virtual or otherwise), have the duty to discover and provide "side-channel" logs?
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Terrorists will NEVER find a way to communicate that cannot be read/heard by others....
suckers...
In europe they're trying to get this same thing going.
People are far to easy about this, camera's in the street, etc etc etc... Not in just the US, but in Europe as well.
the idea of requiring ISP's to retain all data of their customer's online activities for at least several months. The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years
AHH! At last! A valid reason for SPAM. Clog up the backups...
Seriously though, surely to be thorough this would also require the post office to steam open and photocopy all correspondence? It'd be a return to the so-called Black Chambers that once existed in the US and Europe that opened dipolomatic letters.
..or so I read here.
If it happens just do everything with SSL. let them waste their time cracking it.
Of course it shouldn't happen anyway and I can't help wondering if politicians will relish the idea that their surfing to their favourite pr0n sites will be held indefinately.
You Americans do realise that the people you vote for like looking at pr0n as well ?
I wonder if politicians and big business will get a special 'opt out' thing...
So are the DOJ offering to pay for all this? Storing that volume of data isn't free, in fact its bloody expensive. Why should the ISP's have to pay for this themselves, they won't get any benefit from it.
Its like a hidden tax
Anyone wish to help develop that continuously trawls the WWW. ISPs would love it if everyone's browsers were to continously browse. Those logs would grow, plus they wouldn't know what anyone was actually looking at. Then, intentially feed it controversial sites. They'd love that.
Their latest "Bullshit" episode deals directly with the US Patriot act and crap like this. It's pretty interesting, their take on all of this.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
When he mentioned the Internets last year in the debate. I guess he was just ahead of his time.
AccountKiller
Brokerage firms are regulated by the SEC. The SEC has long mandated that brokerage firms retain ALL communications with and about customers (including phone calls and paper mail) in order to allow the SEC to investigate violations of SEC rules. These searchs are carried out with the knowledge of the investigated firms. The only time this would affect a customer's privacy would be if there was a suspicion of an SEC rule violation, such as the Martha Stewart case.
Allowing for searching of ISP logs is much more a violation of customers' privacy. There is no notification to the customer, the Justice department keeps asking for the ability to review these records without issuing a subpeona and without any oversight.
Presenting the ISP logs as an extension of the SEC rules is both incorrect and dangerous. The SEC rules are primarily for the protection of customers and are well founded Constitutionally. The ISP snooping is not.
Isn't that a bit irresponsible? I don't log everything but I do log all traffic that contains keywords like for instance "lolita", "kiddie" and "pthc" as well as all traffic in iso-8859-6/asmo-708.
This isn't a USA-only problem. Similar pencil pusher idiots are trying to get ISPs in The Netherlands to store *ALL DATA* including e-mail, web traffic, P2P et al for 3 years!
Just the disk systems required to do so will contribute significantly to global warming...
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
If the aim is to prosecute the average Joe for what they do online I can understand why forcing them to retain logs (connection or raw captures) would help but I fail to see how it would help with the kind of serious criminal activity they're alluding to.
Assuming there even is a way to search through such vast amounts of data in a reasonable fashion, anything that's encrypted isn't going to be identified that easily and if they can easily pinpoint it, they still wouldn't know if it was criminal until after breaking the encryption.
A good way to raise a politically effective storm of protest over this would be to suggest that the data could also be used to find people who are violating gun laws, say by flagging anyone who's looked at the web site of a gun shop, or done a web search for gun information. This would get the NRA all riled up, and the spineless politicians would back down.
I'm sick and tired of these hip, "ironic" sigs. This is an actual, honest-to-goodness no-nonsense sig!
Could someone explain why this is a violation of the Constition? All I know is the right to free speech, the right to bear arms, the right to not give evidence in court that would incriminate you and the right to be free of unlawful search and seizure, but this doesn't seem to violate any of those...
It's official. Most of you are morons.
We have a lovely law called the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIP) Act that forces ISPs to keep various logs and submit them on demand to investigatory agencies. The best bit about this is that the ISP can't tell anyone that they've done it.
Big brother's already here, and has intercepted you reading this comment.
Big Brother loves you.
Even since the 9/11, the Bush administration has been violate people's privacy under the pretense of safeguarding national and world security.
Many of the measures taken however are raising suspicion; their effectiveness is questioned
by security specialists such as Bruce Schneier, and they pose a threat to the citizens' funadmental right for privacy. The US government has devoted itself in a race for collecting information; reading habits, travelling and shopping preferences are just a few examples of the kind of information being aggregated.
I believe there are shadowy motives behind this information collection race. I think that corporations are trying to monitor people's habits to be able advertise and sell their products more effectively. Apart from that, I believe that the government, or corrupted government officials, might be acquiring and selling information to industrial rivals.
And all these under the pretense of preserving the security of the world... It is the least to say vulgar, seeing corporations taking advantage of 9/11 in such a shameless way.
I personally have no problem limiting my freedom a bit, for the sake of national security. But when the government abuses my goodwill, and uses it so shamelessly, I feel like being raped again and again.
Only old people keeps logs...
Ok, avoid the bad joke, today I found out this link about a law for ISP and how much they should log and for how much this info should be keeped.
The original link is in spanish, but in resume it talks about logs of all user activity (sited visites, information trasmited, etc) and how it should be keeped by ten years... and of course, how the ISP should take charge of all this, no the state.
>Linux is not user-friendly.
It _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly.
Tracking -everything- all users do online might be problematic - but certainly a list of all the web sites a given user hits in a month wouldn't be too tough.
Presumably they'd need a warrant -require- an ISP turn over the logs - but there'd be nothing preventing some of the more "patriotic" ones from "cooperating in a more pro-active fashion". Ie - just turning over a nice synopsis of everything on a monthly basis.
Don't think it's possible? There's a case in Seattle where the FBI tried to get a library to hand over a list of everyone who checked out Osama Bin Laden's biography.
I've personally provided web server logs to police without a warrent because a bomb-threat was involved. I'm 100% sure that case was legit - but I probably would've helped if I was only 60% sure. In reality - they were my employers servers - so I didn't really have a choice.
"We think 1 of the 10,000 customers you service might be up to something really bad. We'd really like your logs. All of them."
Are you gonna say no? Is your boss going to let you say no? Requiring ISPs to have the data on hand is not far from requiring the data be readily available to the government upon a "request for cooperation"
Congress would not "enforce" the laws as such. Rather, they would be empowered to write laws regulating such enforcement. This would include indicating how a common carrier service might be required to log traffic.
Where the fuck does the constitution guarantee that ISPs can't be required to save emails? I DON'T SEEM TO REMEMBER THAT IN THERE.
Unless they wish to provide funding for this, it will kill small mom and pop ISP's that are barely making a profit with small scale operations. Now they would have to invest large amount of cash in hardware and storage space to archive huge amounts of data. I don't see this going anywhere, and it's going to be impossible to enforce.
Offshore ISP, here I come!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
How many voters does it take to change a lightbulb? ...None, voters can't change anything.
I'd like to meet this congressman and smack him in the head with a newspaper... and say "Nooooo, bad congressman"
If you still refer to the Internet as "the big blue e" then you can not regulate it.
Thankfully, technologies like tor render any ISP's logging capabilities, even if they were to log every single packet, completely useless. You can even run some p2p apps through it.
(Before I used it, I assumed it would be too slow to use. Boy was I wrong - I hardly even notice the difference in web browsing).
Part of me wishes the mother fucking terrorists and paedophiles would just start using encryption so we can forget about all these logging/tapping ideas for good and find something else. Obviously what's going to happen in the real world is that the government(s) will waste billions getting these systems working and 3 months later everyone will be encrypting like there's no tomorrow, then these systems will be worthless. I guess after that we will just have to wait until 19 biometric ID-card holding terrorists hijack some more planes and wonder as everyone says "how did this happen?? they had ID cards!!" or perhaps until someone is gang-raped in front of 10 cameras by masked attackers who never get caught.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
This is a case where the Bush administration had it right the first time. We have an economy that looks about as robust-looking as Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones, All we need to do is load down one more business (the ISP's) with keeping logs of Aunt Greta's chat convos. Won't it be nice when the only solvent ISP is AOL *shudder*.
This sort of thinking has also crippled domestic oil exploration. You have to have an Environmental Impact Statement if you drill for oil in an area "where only rodents have sex" and that is all.*
*rodents having sex in the desert is lifted from a routine from my favorite comedian, Lewis Black.
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
Can you just see the DOJ digging through all the e-mails and log-ins that will be generated in just one hour of one day! This is just one more of the big brother feel good laws to keep little old ladies happy that there Gov. is "doing it's job" I mean get real brother.
How is this a surprise? Go look on google groups and see some other quiet actions being taken. Many people who ordered from chemical suppliers, even frickin plastic tubes and such from many years ago are getting threatening letters. These are legitimate citizens who are into chemistry (many licensed) getting pushed around by the DOJ. The government has MANY regulations that cost businesses a fortune to comply with. If you want to get paranoid, you could say that "the system" does these things because that way the poor man will NEVER be able to get rich, because only the rich will be able to afford to comply. So, if they can comply, and their competition is reduced in the process (i.e. smaller businesses), that is all the more bank in their pockets. Personally, this is rediculous. If someone wants to commit crimes, they will find a way. This just reduces our liberties and privacy. Isn't this really what the terrorists wanted all along? A paranoid country spending tons of money on the mere thought of an attack? wide spread panics? companies going out of business due to new regulations? This is what the terrorists wanted. All it took was 19 guys to turn us into our own worst enemy.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Those emails aren't tangible. They're not papers, they're shit in hard drives on other peoples' servers. If you don't want the government in your shit, you're perfectly free to abstain from using email to tell your druggy friends where to meet you to score some awesome dope and prostitution.
You don't have a constitutional guarantee to do whatever the fuck you want and have everyone else tiptoe around you like you're a fucking Wayans brother on the rag.
I RTFA and, again, "child pornography" is being trotted our as the excuse for violating everyone's rights. Does anyone have any idea how much kiddie porn is really out there? I'd go look but I don't want anything hanging around in my browser cache.
unless the US throws its weight around and gets all other nations to do the same thing. Otherwise, you can simply use mail servers and web proxies in nations that don't have logging requirements.
Even with complete record keeping and logging, this will at best permit traffic analysis, since E-mail and IM will increasingly rely on cryptography.
Yeah as long as the DOJ realizes that the extra cost for all the extra storage capacity(hdd's and tape archive/backups) will be delivered free by the aerial density fairies making it so the cost doesnt fall in the hands of the consumers.
Keeping records of gun purchases for a long time is out of question but recording what sites the citizens visit is okay? I can see who has been lobbying hard..
As I have recently said, this is the way it begins; not by huge and obvious destruction of citizens' rights, but by small, insidious steps, portrayed as the 'next logical step' for fighting whatever the state seems to think will manage to get little resistence.
I mean, what, you're not soft on childporn, are you? You don't want terrorist roaming around and using the internet without punity, do you?
If it's emotional and self-righteous enough, they know few will dare to oppose. Think of the children! Think of 9/11! Ok, and now agree to our huge privacy invasion, because, you want to stop those people doing it again, don't you? Or are you pro CP and terrorism?
With such demagogic tricks they can fool the public almost every time.
Is retaining the best way to go? Does it actually help at all? Is the very unlikely possibility of stopping a relatively few worth the privacy invasion and the further degradation of civic rights of millions? Nowhere is that question ever raised by those that propose these laws. Instead, they continue to use platitudes: "We need the way to stop terrorists!" But as I said before:
Ah, yes, but who are the 'terror suspects'? Everyone reading books the state deems dangerous? Everyone using the internet? No? Then why should their privacy be invaded? Why not adher to decades of legal provisions, where it used to be that you could only be 'tapped' when you were considered a suspect, and AFTER a court agreed to it. Nowadays , everyone is a suspect, and the courts don't come into play anymore when your communications are being tapped.
Eroding ones' privacy and other rights because one is merely 'suspected' is the right way to go, if you want to end up in a policestate.
But, we ALL know the state will ONLY use its powers for the purposes it is meant, without ever abusing it. History has shown this already numerous times in the past, no?
Besides, 'if you have nothing to hide, why care that your private life is being invaded', right?
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
Don't these guys get it? Have they no idea the volumes of data which they're talking about? Revenue from datastorage/HD companies won't compare to the costs which ISP's must make to comply; this won't be good for the economy, except for some make-work jobs (which seem to be the only jobs Bush can seem to create).
Appart from that, there's the civil liberties aspect. Why does the american government seem so hell-bent on relieving joe public from his rights? And why does no-one seem to realise that this kind of activity, had it been implemented in 2001, WOULD NOT HAVE PREVENTED 9/11!
So the question becomes: if this wouldn't have prevented that terrorist attack, and is unlikely to pre-empt any other terrorist attack (it might help in the post mortem, but the existing tools/powers the government has would dop the job equally well), why do this?
Unfortunately, there is not really an answer to that question which sets the government in a good light. I'd say draw your own conclusions and let that inform your voting next election.
Heh...if only that would happen...
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
If you believe you have any sort of right to privacy when it comes ot your use of the internet, you're fooling yourself.
ISPs and publicly-traded companies are not subject to the requirements set forth in the constitution. Those only apply to governments.
Those requirements would be immoral, but they are not unconstitutional. IANAL, so take that with a salt lick.
This proposal is already on the table in the EU. You can find more information about it at European Digital Rights.
t 08004.en05.pdf
In the EU the proposal is to retain telephony data for a period of 6 to 48 months. Discussion is still on whether this includes unsuccesful calls and location data during the call.
Furthermore there is discussion on which data to retain with regards to Internet. There are some wishlists around, which generally seem to entail email traffic logs, radius logs, and quite often wo sent whom or received from whom anything at an IP-level and to which TCP port. The most outrageous proposal is from Lithuania, which also wants all the geographical locations of all intermediate routers. For all recent documents on this go to this European Union site The lithuanian proposal is there as well http://register.consilium.eu.int/pdf/en/05/st08/s
Interesting is that there is no data in the EU on whether or not this data is useful to law enforcement. For instance, what is the value of knowing all IP-level connections and their port numbers in a world of DNS, spyware, peer2peer technology and dynamic port numbers. Word is that in The Netherlands research is being done on this and that it will be sent to their parliament in the coming months.
The European Parliament has been very critical, but is of no influence, since it is not a party in this. The member states can decide amongst themselves. Funny is that France and Denmark already have data retention laws, but cannot put them into effect, since they have no clue on what to retain for the internet.
Can't we have a groklaw like site on these kinds of proposals? Collaborative burning of these kinds of proposals?
As far as I know the law has passed in Denmark also.
I remember some discussions about how small an ISP you have to be to be free from these demands as it is a major expense and even worse for small ISP's.
I think the limit for this was set to 1000 customers here in Denmark, but I may remember this wrongly.
Does anyone know about these systems being used by the police etc. in the countries where this has been implemented?
- Force ISPs by law to log all internet traffic for six months.
- Wait until one of these traffic logs containing six months of customer email-- due to a security breach, a malicious employee, or a simple break-in and hard drive theft-- gets stolen and eventually made publicly available.
- Repeat (2) as many times as is necessary for one such incident to be widely covered by the media.
- Watch as, now that people have an actual incentive to start PGPing their emails and know it, they start PGPing their emails.
Awesome! Man, who would have thought it would be the GOVERNMENT, out of everyone, who would finally lead to the widespread use of encryption that privacy advocates have been hoping for for years?Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Noone knows, and I doubt any one really want to try. Searching for large busts though, I found this:
"Investigators in the Clay Meron child porn case say his collection of computer images is the largest recovered in Atlantic Canada. An agreed statement of facts, entered into court on Tuesday, showed the 35-year-old had one computer hard drive containing 171,446 images. Police said 70 per cent were offensive images of children of all ages. There were an additional 1,931 video clips on the same hard drive." (none his own)
Now, you can take that, multiply by an unknown factor of things he didn't have, multiply by everything being traded around in other private circles he didn't have access to, making that probably a very low estimate. Also, with digicams and DV cams, I expect that number to be raising sharply compared to the old days of analog film.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Nah, better solution: pass a bill prohibiting the use of Internet for planning terrorist attacks. That would be the end of terrorism!
What I was alluding to in another post is absolutely true. There is nothing unconstitutional about this law, it is completely permitted under the powers granted to Congress in the Constitution. It is absolutely legal that the government do this.
However, listening to the cries of all the usual suspects here on Slashdot, something else is very clear.
This law violates the "Gut Test".
That's the test that a law has to pass in order to be acceptable. If something in your gut tells you that the law is doing something so outrageous, so in contrast with what you would expect, then the law is a bad law. Even if it passes the constitutionality test, if it can't pass the Gut test, then the law ought not be passed.
There is a spirit to any country's governmental system. Some are very open and accepting (like America's and also Holland's). Others are very strict and act as guardians (like Singapore's). The Gut test depends on the general mood of the country that the law is being proposed in.
If America were composed of Slashbots, this law wouldn't see the light of day. However, the country is composed of people who actually think rather than react impulsively, so there is a chance that such a law will be put into effect.
Twice, the Americans have voted into office GW Bush, and such can only be interpreted as support for his policies. That he won by a significant margin in 2004 is proof that the majority of Americans believe in what he is selling.
Farbeit from me to stand in contrast to the general spirit of Slashdot, but I think that most people here would benefit significantly from a rudimentary education in law and logic.
my computer can hardly retain all data of my online activities, even if i'd really want it, now to think how much would my isp charge me for this kind of mandatory service...
Why don't the DOJ just skip this whole step and just ask the NSA to share their Echelon data instead? Seems like a duplication of effort otherwise
So take off your tin-foil hat and worry about something more concrete like global warming and the war in Iraq.
Just think, you'd get paid to view all that pr0n that folks have been surfing to ensure it doesn't violate some law. Of course, not all of it would be good pr0n.
However, based on volume of traffic, I don't think this is a very realistic task for anyone to do keeping fiscal responsiblity in mind. (yeah, I know it's the government)
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
I'm all for it. Provided that the DOJ is similarly obliged to log and deliver to my inbox a notification that someone in the DOJ has mentioned considering making me the subject of an investigation, so that I can run away and change my name. Also, if I get apprehended and the case goes to trial, I want the log of every jury member, prosecutor and member of the judiciary subpoenaed and presented as evidence for the defence. I'd happily be imprisoned for a cause I believe in, but I'll be damned if I'm being convicted by someone that likes shopping for antique furniture and goat porn.
tune. 'own grandpa'.
/.'ers take note. The USA courts have the final say, after the fact, as to the constitutiopnality of a law. You guys are always jumping the gun here. What should really worry you is the noise about subjugating USA law to international law.
;-) ;-) nudge nudge
You watch this ISP logging crap. The big 5 are going to be n favor of it and so is the MPAA and RIAA. I'm my own ISP and if this becomes law, which is highly doubtful when you look back at all the boneheaded stuff ideas that the boneheaded politicians come up with, I'm not gonna pay a tax for someone else to log my stuff and my logs, well...all I can say is...'what's a log?'
Osama just called to say he's hung up his terrorism hat. We no longer have enough freedom to be worth hating.
Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
I'm quite convinced that Karl Rove et al take the history of the Roman Empire very seriously in assessing how to preserve the special status of the American ruling class (=patricians.)
The point about the Roman Empire was that there was nowhere to hide for its citizens. The reason that, when accused of crimes, senators went off and committed suicide was that there was nowhere to escape to. This gave the people in power effectively total control.
In classical Rome, just like Elizabethan England, huge networks of paid informers ensured that the government knew what people were thinking. The result was that the upper classes could continue their internecine wars (i.e. kill one another) while knowing that the system that kept them, as a class, in power was secure. There was no risk that while they were slaughtering one another, the peasants would revolt. Of course, in Rome the emperor also had a private security force - but ultimate power was controlled by whoever had the support of the army. So one Imperial tactic was to keep the army as far away from Rome as possible fighting foreign wars.
Any similarities are purely coicidental.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Not that I see this as a big problem for people here, but my thing on this issue (aside from it being another hit on our rights in this country) is that there will be people out there that will have an unsecured wireless access point in their homes that could suffer undue legal actions. I highly doubt someone will carry on with "terrorist" actions in their own homes if they find out that John Smith down the street just got a brand new wireless access point and knows little about computers and security. The apethetic reasoning would say, well hey they should learn, but we all know that won't happen. So what you are going to have are people that will have log records kept of activity that they aren't even performing. Then when the good ol' guvment comes to prosecute, how will they defend themselves? And if they can't prosecute with logs alone, how will it help them catch the real criminals.
At a time when wireless access should be becoming more and more prevelant, they are passing laws that are going to make people think twice about letting people use their own access points or tracking what those individuals do.
The Technomancer
"Men of lofty genius when they are doing the least work are most active."-
Are you kidding? We're already there. Whether its the Government or corporations....
The problem with IP networks is the database that links you to your IP address. If there was a way of plucking an IP range out of the air, advertising it, and using it without any record of this, you would be anonymous. There's a network running now that does this with VPNs and OSPF. I'm sure they'd love intelligent peoples criticism and comment.
Get your own free personal location tracker
It always helps to use a secure proxy on the other side of the globe, somewhere that doesn't have jurisdiction if you know what I mean.
But the reach of the law now exceeds geographic boundaries. It's getting to be ridiculous.
In the light of these statistics, I would expect some sort of diversion soon:
# Only 39 percent approve of his handling of the economy.
# Only 39 percent approve of his handling of foreign policy.
# Only 37 percent approve of his handling of the war in Iraq.
# Only 25 percent approve of his handling of Social Security.
# Only the campaign against terrorism gets the approval of more than half those questioned.
Citizens clearly need to be reminded again that it is imperative to keep on hating and fearing the arab terrorists and getting fucked in the poopchute by the government is a small price to pay for safety.
This is such Bull.
WHO THE HELL CARES? People WHO DO BAD THINGs, that's who.
It's a GOOD IDEA to keep records of my online activity. If I get ripped off by an online vendor, they'll have records of my transaction should my computer die.
This is only a bad thing for people who don't want to get caught doing something wrong. Which from the ammount of privacy advocates out there, appears to be a ton of people!
Long Live OSX!
We see you accessed a port commonly used for 'pirate programs'. Please submit to a full search of your home while we detain you for questioning, since you obviously were doing something wrong.
Oh, and about that page that discussed opposition to the government you were reading last week, we really need to talk about your loyatly.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Gmail keeps all my email forever, already.
Geeze DOJ, I try and make it easy for you by posting the most interesting things I look at on my blog.
Is this serious?
Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own internet, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the internet!
This pisses me off and I'll be writing some more letters to my congressmen about it, but it honestly won't affect me. I use encrypted, tunnel'd traffic to a place outside of the US for most of my traffic anyway. You can log ssh connections all you want, but that doesn't mean you can read them. If the time comes that my connections are logged and they have the technology to read them, I'm not doing anything illegal or wrong so it doesn't matter, but I'll likely have moved on to something else to protect my privacy.
Also, it is stuff that this that prompted our first American revolution. Maybe that's why there is such a focus on gun ownership. Hmm, conspiracy theory anyone?
You are a fool. Privacy advocacy is one of the basic fundamentals of modern democratic society.
What business is it of yours or the governments how I choose to spend my time or money? NONE. What gives them the right to have searchable data without any grounds for investigation? NONE.
Since when did it become right to assume guilt until innocence has been proven? That's what you are advocating. Another fundamental concept shot all to hell.
This isn't a question of criminality, it's a question of personal rights, which we still have. Which, if more people think like you, will be gone alltogether.
Your warped perspective is simply offensive. Quit spreading your paranoid propaganda.
You could explain how this would curtail the rights of some minority group. (Best to choose women, blacks,or homosexuals, since they are the most politically powerful excuses^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgroups.)
The SEC rule mentioned by doubledoh applies to brokerage firms, not to publicly traded firms generally. The intro text should be corrected to reflect this.
With the misnamed Patriot Act, we're already there. The other country that wants ISP's to keep that much data on their customers is China.
And the best part is the Republicans own this issue, 100%. Republican Congress, Senate and White House. The people robbing you of your privacy and individual freedoms are Republicans. They can't blame Clinton anymore. The only Republican screaming for privacy is Rush Limbaugh, trying to keep his medical records out of the hands of Florida drug prosecutors.
That may sound odd coming from a Republican, but the new brand of right wing Republicans are tearing this country apart. They're bad for the country and they're polluting the party. We need to get back to what we've stood for traditionally: States rights, fiscal responsibility, respect for individual privacy, less government, lower taxes and respect for all religions, not just evangelical Christians.
Besides, this will only work for those not smart enough to know how to use a secure proxy. This is so stupid. Like we don't have enough basic terrorism issues to address, they have to range into the retarded extreme.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It's not a Constitutional violation...email and the Internet are not part of the Constitution. It may be a Federal violation, but that's not the same thing.
if this happens, i hope ppl start running programs that visit random websites, send random emails to null email address, download and erase random files from random servers to make the data useless. this will increase traffic for the isps, and make the information in the logs junk. the isps will complain that costs r going up in traffic and log size. i know, it's gonna clog things up and all, but we can't let the govt have their way with our rights. sometimes you have to throw that tantrum and just break stuff to get your point across. if they aren't going to treat us like adults, we should act like children.
Corporations can basically pay to have just about anything enacted into law if they have enough money to throw at the issue and it's not so egregious as to piss off Joe Sixpack. There's no way the large ISP's will go for this. Look at who some of these large ISP's are. We're talking about large media conglomerates and cable and telecommunications companies. This would probably cost them a lot of time and money to setup and maintain so there's no way they'll go for it and they'll spend a lot of cash to defeat it. They'll score points with the privacy advocates for fighting it and it will benefit them in terms of profitability. It's a win - win for them. This will never happen.
outside his own ears is kidding themselves.
:-)
I'm not necessarily being paranoid here (well maybe a tad.) Its just that we are known by the threads our actions weave.
We are witnesssing the ossification of data and the enshrining of standards into perpetuity.
I have a 19gig drive at my feet with years of emails going back to the middle of the 1980s. I don't even own a computer to slide the drive into anymore. (Its an Apple SCSI. The last time I transfered to it was 1997, the first time I started 'logging' my messages, I was using 5 1/2" flopppies. I do a lot with archives and I'm congenitally unable to throw anything away but I know that I'm nuts.
Now I'm reading that I CAN'T throw it away despite its being totally useless to me. It figures.
Now I'll have to keep active hardware and a TB of space 'round for decades. Hopefully that will be enough space to see me through to the grave.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
This project is an echo of several earlier efforts, some of which pre-dated 9/11. The most infamous variant was a program called total information awareness, or TIA. Like this latest proposal, TIA proposed to filter through all electronically transmitted messages to sift out "suspicious" activity.
I notice that scoffers question the doability of this project. In fact it's relatively easy.
Many, many years ago I wrote a paper that described how simple it would be to determine your age, your sex, your political beliefs and your socioeconomic status just by analyzing a log of local phone numbers you dial. The kind of data sifting technology available a decade ago is vastly better today.
Already systems in place by NSA and others use keyword and address clustering technologies to assess (with varying degrees of success) suspicious networks of individuals outside the US.
The fact that these systems may be only intermittently effective is no reason to dismiss their chilling effect on civil liberties when brought into use inside the US.
We are looking at a pattern that involves the following:
Authorization of torture tactics in US military camps.
Attempting to set up a program to encourage postal workers, meter readers and others to spy on their customers in order to bypass search anxd seziure legalities.
Setting up gulags on US controlled territories such as Guantanamo Bay.
Allowing federal spooks to check out your library records (among others) without a warrant.
Setting up dummy reporters and phony news sites to pollute the media stream with misinformation.
Manufacturing phony threats to obscure pre-emptive wars against political opponents abroad.
And now, this.
Fascism doesn't necessarily annouce itself at once. More likely it comes in by stealth, bit-by-bit.
Jack Bryar
while :;do wget -O - -C off -U "Mozilla/5.0;Ih8Spam" http://www.mbn.plannedbrin.com/ > /dev/null;done
and
while :;do wget -O - -C off -U "Mozilla/5.1;ih8sp@m" http://networkprescription.com:20000/rxcart/?ref=6 > /dev/null;done
at the moment, and provide the same treatment to any other links that I am invited to visit via unsolicited email.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
This is once again demonstrating the need for widespread use of encryption. What we need to convince people to make the switch is a sudden, jarring invasion of privacy, but the government has been really good at keeping all this stuff just under the radar for Joe Schmoe. I think DoJ knows this, and they've probably been very careful to keep a lid on what they've been doing with this stuff.
I know a couple of people at a large UK ISP who have been involved with implementing this stuff. Apparently they were asked to retain:
- All outgoing email (maybe inbound too, I forget)
- HTTP URLs only (no HTTP content)
Now, email is easy enough, but logging HTTP headers is very hard, because most browsers use HTTP 1.1 nowadays. HTTP 1.1 re-uses TCP connections, and this means that the URL isn't necessarily contained at the beginning of a TCP stream.So, in order to snarf HTTP headers, the ISP would have to inspect all traffic on port 80/TCP, reconstruct a valid HTTP 1.1 stream and log the URLs it contains. This is impossible to implement for any large ISP, and my friend told the
My understanding is that currently the
I thought it was just four guys that got us in this mess.
One could argue five, with the fifth being either Wolfowitz or the rubberstamp legislature.
"The last thing I want to do is deal with a bunch of people who want something."
Major Major
I know it might be disturbing to have to give up your privacy, but what most people need to know is that it is the inevitble consequences of their own political beliefs.
The average person WANTS a police state. They don't want people do do harmful drugs, so police need powers to pursue those crimes. Guns frighten them, so the police need the power to go after that. They are worried people might say things that are offensive, so they need the government to moniter and regulate the media. THey want a welfare state, which requires tax collection and hence total financial survielence (and if you live in North America or Europe, every electronic financial transaction you make is tracked by your government). They want social workers to regulate families, require tracking there, they want polution stopped, which means government observation of all industry. They want buisnesses regulated, which means government observation of all buisness communication.
YOU, Slashdot readers, are responsible for the police state! This didn't start with G. W. Bush and 9/11, this has been happening long before that, and everywhere in the developed world. You can't have a government that has its hand in everything, without having a government that is tracking and observing everything. Period.
You want to end the police state? The solution is simple. Stop trying to control, regulate, and manipulate everything through the state... because the state is only able to do those things through police power.
"No reasonable expectation of privacy exists on the Internet." Remember that phrase. It will appear in the first _Nutt v. U.S._ case where a private citizen sues the Federal Government for accessing his online activities.
Let's face it: as soon as you clear your home router, nothing you do is private. A cop is free to follow you in public and observe everything you do. Why is this any different on the Internet?
This is probably distinguishable from phone conversations. On the telephone, you assume that there is a two-way (or three-way) conversation. There is a point-to-point conversation. (I'm referring to the older model, not the VoIP model). However, since Internet activity routes through several nodes via multiple pathways, then your activity is more observable. The fact that people can packet-sniff in the comfort of their own home evidences this. The cops used to have to wiretap at the phone company to monitor your phone calls. Now they only need your IP address to capture everything you're doing.
So, no "no reasonable expectation of privacy on the Internet."
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
When it comes down to it, internet use is just a communication medium. Somehow, this seems to treat the Internet like something new and completely unmonitored.
Does this infer that:
Phone companies are recording all telephone calls?
The postal service opens everyone's mail and scans it into a central database?
The cable company tracks each channel you are watching?
Maybe it does...
I'll have 1 tin hat please, size 7-3/8's.
If this happens I'll be tapping into my neighbors wireless connection.
Dunno.
Find and compromise as many of these files as you can. Identify as many politicians' accounts as you can. Post all of the log files on the internet.
If even half of the log files found are as embarrassing as I'm imagining then all of Washington would go into a buzz about protecting privacy.
It's good that stuff like this is reported, and people get upset about it. Frankly, there's a reason why the DOJ is trying to do this "quietly". Remember clipper?
But really, the number of bad, privacy-invading ideas that have been put forth by law enforcement and scrapped over the years is innumerable. I would imagine this one is heading for the same fate.
Kythe
The underlying basis here for this conversation is that the ISP logs are sources for accurately hunting down criminal activity.
Couldn't someone dupe information so that the ISP's log isn't tracable? If something like this goes into practice, I would expect that the real criminals (the ones we *all* would like to see brought to justice) would just manipulate their behavior to make the log information of low value.
You really need to learn how to create a link.
Doesnt google already do this using its web accelerator software?
You guys in the states are loosing all your freedoms that you hold so dear at an alarming rate. The excuse of giving up freedom cause you are in a post 911 world is bull. if you give up your freedoms the terrorists win.
I am Canadian and I won't give up my freedom to any government or the RIAA or MPAA or CRIA... And I sure wont give it up because people south of the border think I should
You don't log onto the internet.....It logs onto you!
Is it just me or is all this privacy stealing bullshit really starting to get you worried?
I just wonder how long it's gonna be before they start on "open travel" being the tool of the terrorists....
and they tell us that we need to have our "papers" and go through multiple checkpoints to protect our "LIBERTY"....
Business is Business and Business must grow, Regardless of crummies in tummies you know... -Onceler
No. Wait! Why not require brick and mortar stores to log all customers who pass through their doors. Require cameras and recordings for the past 2 months. Install RFIDs in people to automatically log who they are and where they are visiting from. RFIDs that collect data from the stores too! To identify chains of visitation - fertilizer store, electronics shop, van rental -- obviously a home-owner (oops, meant criminal).
No, wait, let's not stop there, require phone companies to record the last 2 months of their customer's phone conversations. Make the phone companies pay for it.
No. Wait! Use an automobile blackbox to record the individuals' RFIDs to tell the auto who drove and is driving the car. Require parking lots to read these car blackboxes and report cars (driver and passengers). Collect who went where and when for the last two months. Might be important...
No. Wait! Remove the individual higher brain functions and install automata-like intellects in all citizens, because, let's face it -- it is the only way to fight crime. AND when fighting crime like this, it is the only way an individual can exist.
********************
My employer disavows all association with the preceeding remarks
********************
...when next the US Post Office will be required to scan and image and index into a searchable database every letter and document that flows thru the postal system.
Iran I believe is lower on the list, primarily because of the secular movement among the younger generation. I.e. it might "work itself out" over time.
And N Korea. . . not likely. Saber rattling perhaps, but there's no real strategic value in the area that would cause this administration concern. . . no way for their business cronies to get rich.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
C'mon, Clinton was no better. Don't forget:
1. Bombing Belgrade
2. DMCA
At least Bush won't push new gun laws. See, US is a great country, but US government has done some really, really bad shit before, like slavery two centuries ago, and concentration camps for Japanese-Americans 60 years ago. It's just the way our democracy works - it allows the stupid populace to elect dumb-ass presidents who fuck that same populace over. Every once in a while, the populace would wise up and elect a normal guy, but it doesn't happen all that often.
This time, judging by how they "almost" elected Bush twice in a row, it could get much worse before it gets better.
...lots of dead Americans. I thought that was fairly obvious.
If this garbage happens to pass as law, here's what I propose.
Set up a script that:
1) googles for a random dictionary-derived word
2) requests every link in the result set, randomly
3) lather, rinse, repeat.
They want data? Let's give them data. But let's make that data useless to analyze and difficult to search through.
I'm by no means 'soft on child porn', to paraphrase the article, but a freedom lost in the name of justice is still a freedom lost. ANY freedom lost just opens the door to more losses.
Looking at my usage for 2 months (said requirement...):
Total connections: 60
Total Time Online: 49:09:40:26
Total Bandwidth (in bytes): 53918863875
Downloaded: 30274887815
Uploaded: 23643976060
So, I had ~54G of traffic in two months. I'd like to see the storage needed to log all of this data on EVERY customer not to mention the amount of iron needed to crunch/sort this amount of info in a timely manner.
I work for a major ISP in the US. We have the 16th or 17th largest email complex in the US, and the log files for that, simply "who sent what to were"(this is done for a anti-spam tool that we have) , without content manages to build up a 5 TERAbyte log file every hour...
Now imagine how big the logs are going to be to monitor all the sites all of our customers browse too, even just logging the URL requested/received. Aside from the fact that we would never want to invade a customers privacy like that, unless we were forced to, and somehow came up with a way to store thousands of terabytes of data daily...this is not going to happen.
> 2. Calculate the cost of storing the avarage data throughput of a client per 3 months.
> 3. Be astonished on how many years of company profits will go into setting up this system.
> 4. Wonder how on earth you're going to search through such a huge data storage.
> 5. ?
> 6. Profit!
5. Buy stock in Western Digital, Seagate, and Maxtor.
You're welcome.
I'll say what most citizens feel:
"Wake me up when its bad enough to revolt".
Its gonna take more than this to rile six-pack-joe. And I don't think we can make a huge difference WITHOUT his numbers!!
I wasnt trying to make a joke, in this case.
I know its terrible.. Our rights are being trampled on like Smokey The Bear in a forest fire stamping out embers..
And 'the masses' are so blind they support it..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Ok, so I can see the argument against ISPs retaining all this information. It's comparable to the idea of the phone company recording all your calls and making them available to the government. What I don't agree with in the submission is the comment of the SEC requirements being a constitutional violation.
Every employee working for a brokerage firm is aware that ALL their communication is recorded. E-mail, phone calls, company-approved IM program logs, etc.. The paper tickets written out for some trades are kept for years afterwards in case of disagreement/lawsuits. You're using COMPANY e-mail, computers, servers, phones, etc., and when there are BILLIONS of dollars being traded daily, you're damned right they're going to want a record of everything.
None of this is accessed unless an investigation is launched by the SEC, and all parties are notified that tapes/logs will be accessed. If someone doesn't want personal information to be recorded, then they DON'T TRANSMIT IT ON COMPANY RESOURCES.
So please, how is this a constitutional violation?
- In hell, treason is the work of angels.
I feel like SNL's impression of Alex Trebek here durring a session of Celebrity Jeapardy.
Sean Connery: Preserving your Privacy for $1000
Alex: "Distributed Anonymizing Proxy network of Onion Routers"
Sean Connery: What is your mother's onion sized breasts! I hear she distributes them pretty well, pansy boy!
Alex: I'm sorry, the answer is 'What is Tor?', found at http://tor.eff.org./ And if you talk about my mother again... I will be forced to thrash you.
Cleaning the net one sed at a time! s/sex/sermons/; s/hot/holy/; s/goats/thebible/; www.holysermonswiththebible.com
This really creeps me out. What the hell are they thinking? Almost everyone is against this. What is happening to democracy in the United States? We all need to write our senators NOW to stop this madness!
Hey,
What if someone at one of these organizations/companies decides to take some information gathered and use it to blackmail people?
The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years
The linked page does not state that there's a 2 yr requirement for all e-mail. What it does say is:
Violated Section 17(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, Rule 17a-4 under the Exchange Act, NYSE Rule 440 and NASD Rule 3110 by failing to preserve for a period of three years, and/or preserve in an accessible place for two years, electronic communications relating to the business of the firm, including interoffice memoranda and communications.
I work for a Fortune 100 company, and it's standard procecdure for all email to be deleted from our servers after 30 days. I believe that policy went into effect around the time of this ruling...company lawyers wanting to play CYA, and all.
Just another day in Paradise
Only companies that actively trade in securities (IE: brokerage firms) are bound by this SEC rule. Regular corporations (public or private) don't have to keep mail around unless they are part of active litigation. Read and understand what you link to!
Let's give credit where credit is due.
By fanning the fear of a possible attack somewhere by an invisible enemy some day,
these politicians have terrorized the voters into lambs. Now they are pursuing their own agenda which is at best peripherally related to fighting terrorism.
The only recourse is to speak to the facts to break through the media curtain of noises and spins and throw out the lying liars.
I imagine that if someone was trying to make communications that they wanted to hide, then they could just create a simple flash animation to hide the message. There are plenty of ways to embed text into another medium in order to make it more difficult to just see. And as bandwidth becomes cheaper you can increase the amount of noise in the message that can't easily be eliminated by a machine.
With the upgrades in storage coming along, the goal is to save this information for at least a couple of years. Down to the packet level, depending on how much storage is available.
Just wait when these get networked together via distributed computing. One will be able to keep track around the world in real time of all connections, and where they are coming from.
The internet in 10 years will be very different than it is right now. And this is the first legal effort to push things along in a negative direction.
The FBI will want this ability very bad. They will probably get it too.
I thought ISPs did this already. Maybe not for two years or more, but I always figured there was a record out there somewhere of my Net goings-on. I just never worried about it much.
It's not a lie. It's the truth with lossy compression.
So what would this mean for those who are self-hosted?
My upstream ISP gives me a DSL pipe and six static IP addresses. I run everything else, and I do mean EVERYthing: Authoritative DNS, web, mail, Usenet leaf node, the works. My upstream, as far as I know, doesn't log my traffic because I'm not using any of their machine resources.
Since I am effectively my own ISP, does that mean I need to start thinking about record retention? I have a grand total of four users, counting myself, and all except one are immediate family members. We don't snoop on each other, and I don't offer Internet service for resale at all.
I know self-hosting is a little unusual to many, but to my eyes it's just an extension of the fact that I ran a FidoNet BBS for many years. If the DoJ expects me to start snooping on family members and a close friend, just because I'm their 'ISP' in the technical sense, I'm afraid they're going to be severely disappointed.
Keep the peace(es).
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
What are they going to do, forbid the use of encryption? If every file is encrypted using public key crptography before it starts to download, and transmits the packets over an encrypted channel, what are they going to be logging? Random bits they can't make sense of?
Yes, you can go tinfoil hat about their secret decryption capabilities, but given that all the computing power on Earth of today would be needed until the death of the sun to crack many commonly availible encryption techniques, they'd not be able to go after serious criminals never mind this trolling and sifting for activity they don't like.
And is this for ISPs ONLY? Then the person hosting a website with pr0n files can set up a server-side encryption system to automatically encrypt to a user's public key whatever they wish to download and need not keep logs of who downloaded what. Are they going to require every farking computer connected to the public Internet to log its own activities?! "You will report on yourselves!"
Yeah, right. PGP/GPG, OpenSSH, proxies, and encrypting drive controllers standard on every PC would make their job a living farking nightmare. Even expreienced organized criminals aren't that good and their police state tactics are only driving that level of security to become the every day norm.
Good going, feds. You're single handedly making your job impossible. Did you idiots never once get the idea that you're driving your targets to put up their defenses against you full tilt? Never mind Al-Queda and the Mafia, your own teenagers' PCs will be unbreakable without dedicating ten years of your department's budget to find out if your daughter is still a virgin or if your son is doing gay cyber sex. Way to go! I'd be surprised the Soviets or Nazis didn't think of this sort of thing first if I wasn't fully aware that they didn't have the Internet back then. Evidently, our politicians and civil servants of today aren't as smart.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Check this book out http://www.hanshoppe.com/ before buying into the big lie of democracy.
to open, copy and maintain every item that passes through its system? This would be the functional equivalent, from a privacy/process standpoint. I will assume, until proven wrong, that more rational minds will prevail.
The much vaunted and recent claim that somewhere in the Constitional shadows lies a "right to privacy" was manfactured so liberals (and some libertarians, as well as almost everyone rich) could rid society of people they consider social problems. Abortion as "privacy" was legalized and declared constitutional to limit high black and Hispanic birthrates. That's why liberals have so much zeal to bring abortion to poor black mothers but are so hostile to giving that same black mother the right to choose which school her unaborted child attends.
Those who to see what legalized abortion really means for black people should check out Nick Cannon's "Can I Live?" music video.
More recently, euthanasia has begun to slip under the "privacy" rhetoric as an excuse to starve to death the severely disabled. The liberal side of the Supreme Court only likes "privacy" when it kills those it considers of little or no future value--such as a poor ghetto child or a severely disabled woman.
Being able to track whether certain Slashdot readers are downloading child porn may be the sort of thing the ACLU considers a constitutional right, but it's not the sort of thing that the average liberal is likely to oppose. After all, most liberals have children of their own.
--Mike Perry, editor The Pivot of Civilization in Historical Perspective
XBOX to powerpc
Apple to Intel
Communism to Capitalism
Free world to Big brother
Let's just hope that nobody flies another plane into a building, or this is exactly the kind of legislation that will go into Patriot Act III. And then they'll come up with even more severe rights violations, and push them just in case there's another attack. Give 'em an inch and they'll take your whole country.
I'm not sure about the NYSE or NASDQ but the SEC doe NOT require the retention of email. If anyone knows anything to the contrary and can cite a relevant SEC rule I'd be interested. The cited article references Rule 17a-4 under the Exchange Act of 1934 which is: (4) The Commission or the appropriate regulatory agency may specify that documents required to be filed pursuant to this subsection with the Commission or such agency, respectively, may be 161 Sec. 17 SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934 retained by the originating clearing agency, transfer agent, or municipal securities dealer, or filed with another appropriate regulatory agency. The Commission or the appropriate regulatory agency (as the case may be) making such a specification shall continue to have access to the document on request. (d)(1) The Commission, by rule or order, as it
The more time goes by, the more I think that the term Department of Justice is Orwellian double-speak.
The sad thing is, it doesn't matter who is in the white house. The G-man goon squad constantly seeks to increase its powers while decreasing judicial oversight and public scrutiny. Presidents come and go, administrations come and go, but the bureauacracy that drives this never dies.
This just goes to show that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. The wolf is always at the door. There are other cliches I could envoke as well, but you get the idea.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Just the other day, Citibank lost a boatload of customer information; how will you feel when script kiddies and black hats, not the government, have access to everything you've done online?
This is an extortionist's wet dream. Break into this 2 month cache of info, find the embarrising (not even illegal) behavior, and ... 3) profit!
I've been thinking about this ever since they did that experiment in Switzerland where they sent one half of a quantumly-entangled pair to the other side of Geneva via fiber optic cable. They pinged one half with lasers, and determined through precise measurement that the information was instantaneous and faster than the speed of light.
At the same time I read about the experiment, apart from dreams of ansibles, I thought, hey, there's no way in hell for any third party to eavesdrop on two quantumly entangled particles.
Also in the news was Napster and Freenet, and I wondered if a person couldn't build an Internet using quantum entangled pairs that is totally immune from government intrusion.
Try to read our logs then, mofos!
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Here in Illinois they doubled the price of a toll, unless you have an I-Pass.
So they becoming mandatory.
Oh, and BTW, I-Pass RFIDs are registered with the license tag(s), and other info.
And the Feds have already got their precedent that "encryption possession proves criminal intent". That old "less intrusive government" Republican Party has tightened the noose around the bedroom, the keyboard, the sidewalk, the hospital. Hello, Big Brother - you look just like George Bush.
--
make install -not war
One of the big problems I see with the direction this is taking is intercommunication between countries. As this might lead to logging of large amounts of activity, what happens when this conflicts with the privacy laws of other countries. Some parts of Canada (BC for example) have already implemented laws to deal with issues in regards to privacy of Canadian records given to US firms, etc... though I'm not sure how effective this is.
So what happens when customer (a) is transferring data with person (b) in a country with better privacy rights/laws. What happens when that information is recorded? What happens when it is hacked and stolen?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./tem p/~c109cf6ITt::
"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution"
Legislation has been introduced to repeal the 22nd Amendment. This seems to have "slipped" past the media.
"They don't need to log everything in the beginning. The goal is not to take all our freedoms and privacies all at once. They just want to get the ball rolling."
/. front page write-up are just sensationalist bs. The phone company has been logging phone calls for decades. No court has claimed that was a violation of Constitutional freedoms.
From the article:
"A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional Records Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers to retain any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request of a governmental entity."
They are basically extending the 90 day period to 6 months. Your comments as well as the
Vote for Pedro
I work for a small ISP in NW Ohio. I have a few questions:
Who is going to pay for the disk space to store all of these logs. we couldn't possibly afford to keep even a weeks worth of logs. We have 2 DS3's for upstreams, out of two POPs, you know how much bandwidth that uses?
Who is actually okay with the policy of sniffing the innocent in case they might do something wrong? Sorry, no, this is just more repbulican facsist bullshit. Anyone who believes this is a good idea clearly doesn't value freedom in any real sense.
Who is going to station armed guards in my network, to keep me from making it official company policy to kick the logging machines as you walk by them?
As an employee of an ISP, I can say we are unprepared to do this, we are unwilling to do this, and..... fuck the DOJ, this is just wrong.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
...on a technical level.
They'd be storing this much information on me: http://www.google.com/search?q=6+million+per+secon d+*+1+month
Which works out to about 1.80 TiB
And since hard drives are about $0.3875/GB,/ www.pricewatch.com/prc.aspx%3Fi%3D26%26a%3D4429
http://www.pricewatch.com/default.aspx?p=http%3A/
That means I'm getting an extra $714.24 value out of my $80 Comcast bill, or whatever they charge now.
And since I only watch my porn that I stream from the internet at H.264 1280p HD (5-6Mbps), caching the data on Comcast's servers is just as good as saving it on my own hard drive.
Now I already know what you're going to say:
To which I say:
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Actually, the ability for any society to rebel may become limited as its military grows its ability to control more firepower with less people. Just look at where drone technology is already (see http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.06/drones_pr .html)
Rebellion in the past has always relied on the fact that the military is ultimately comprised of people that may sympathize with the public.
Don't assume that we'll always be able to overthrow governments like we have in the past.
While reading your post I had an odd thought: what if the encryption was all done at the ISP level, in some way such that the ISP itself doesn't have all the keys?? maybe you exchange keys with your ISP and they then encrypt all your traffic on your behalf, but they are not able to decrypt it without getting your other key. I may be talking nonsense here (since I don't really understand how all this works) but it occurred to me that something like this might render logs useless.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Here we go....worrying about big brother. I am pretty much a law abiding citizen and so I don't have anything to hide. I don't care if someone wants to read my emails. As long as I am not required to walk around with my clothes off, I am fine :) Nothing to hide and while I agree that there could be constitional concerns, who do we really think will be affected?
This administratin seems to have no problem fucking with my and other people's liberties, all the while spewing out how they are great defenders of freedom and democracy.
I for one look forward to the next election, when I can fuck them back.
If so, make your voice heard during the next election cycle.
Don't elect republicans to anything, not even dog catcher.
This is obviously the only reason for such data to be saved. There is no provision in this proposed law to forbid "trawling".
This is interesting stuff. It looks like *someone* in the GOP administration fancies the like gendered folk, while publicly denouncing such things.
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The goal is not to take all our freedoms and privacies all at once. They just want to get the ball rolling. They will ask the ISPs to log a totally unreasonable amount of data knowing they will settle for a lesser but still privacy killing amount.
Well, I guess I'll have to stick to sending all everything throughOnion Routing proxies like i2p and tor.
That'll be a real shame.
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Need Referals? The ref stops here
Well Bush still has awhile to go before he steps down. Plenty of time to set the Military and Dept. of Homeland Security in such a spot that the new president is nothing more than a puppet. Have fun with that fucking whacko.